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JordansBulls
11-26-2010, 03:03 PM
Figure we will get this going and use this thread to talk about the MVP candidates throughout the season.


Link (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/11/26/race-to-mvp-week5/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1)




1. Dwight Howard, Magic (10-4)
Last Week's Rank - 4
Maybe Howard shouldn't get too much credit for his 24 points and 18 rebounds against Miami Wednesday, since the Heat have become everyone's favorite punching bag lately. But he averaged 25 points and 16 rebounds for the week.

2. Pau Gasol, Lakers (13-2)
Last Week's Rank -- 2
He missed a double-double in the Lakers' blowout of Golden State Sunday ? just nine rebounds to go with 28 points ? but made up for it with his 10-of-10 perfection from the field. Leads the NBA in double-doubles and efficiency.

3. Chris Paul, Hornets (11-3)
Last Week's Rank - 1
Toppling two spots wouldn't be a big deal, except that Paul's fall came from No. 1. The reasons? A 1-2 week for the Hornets, his 11-of-32 shooting, a 13.3 scoring average and after New Orleans' 105-87 loss at Utah, a 3-12 personal mark in matchups with Deron Williams.

4. Derrick Rose, Bulls (8-5)
Last Week's Rank - 8
So The Bulls are doing things on their dreaded annual circus trip ? namely, winning ? that they haven't done consistently since Michael Jordan left in 1998. Rose is the catalyst, averaging 30.6 points, 5.4 rebounds and 6.4 assists since Chicago left Chicago.

5. Dirk Nowitzki, Mavericks (10-4)
Last Week's Rank -- 10
Scoring at a career-high pace (26.4 ppg), hitting a career-best accuracy (53.6 percent), taking his fewest shots in three years (17.9 FGA per game). Nowitzki had 76 points in back-to-back victories over Detroit and Oklahoma City, including a 4-point play and subsequent 3-pointer in the turning point over the Thunder.

6. Kobe Bryant, Lakers (13-2)
Last Week's Rank - 3
This might fly in the face of the "best player, best team" perspective, because Bryant is the Laker that rival coaches fear most. It seems wrong that he has just one regular-season MVP to his name. He even outscored Gasol 63-56 in L.A.'s 3-0 week. But his lanky teammate grabbed 18 more rebounds and out-assisted Bryant 15-12.

7. Deron Williams, Jazz (11-5)
Last Week's Rank - 5
Good week for Williams, even better week for his supporting cast. The head-to-head performance against Paul was so good, it almost is becoming routine, with the Jazz winning 80 percent of the time in their matchups. But C.J. Miles, Al Jefferson and the second unit lightened their point guard's load.

8. Manu Ginobili, Spurs (13-1)
Last Week's Rank - NR
He doesn't rank among the league leaders in most statistical categories but he did earn one No. 1 label after scoring 14 points in the fourth quarter with a steal and a block in the final minute of the Spurs' comeback victory at Minnesota. "Ultimate competitor," coach Gregg Popovich called him. That's an MVP quality, for sure.

9. Russell Westbrook, Thunder (10-5)
Last Week's Rank - 9
Here again, as with the Lakers, Kevin Durant is the fellow on whom opponents primarily focus their defensive game plans. But Westbrook earned Western Conference player of the week honors through Sunday, then followed up with double-doubles as the Thunder went 1-1 vs. the Timberwolves and the Mavericks.

10. Carmelo Anthony, Nuggets (8-6)
Last Week's Rank - NR
Here at The Race, we don't favor players whose individual well-being and future whereabouts intrude on his team's priorities during a season. But Anthony isn't just getting buckets ? he's boarding at a career-best pace, shooting his 3-pointers more accurately and attacking the rim (47 FTAs the past four games).

Zefflin
11-26-2010, 03:11 PM
I gave that list a skim but my list right right is...

Timmy/Manu
Kobe/Pau
Dwill
CP3
D12
Westbrook
Dirk
DRose
Durant
Melo

Can't wait for the Spurs vs LA game...!

tredigs
11-26-2010, 03:46 PM
I gave that list a skim but my list right right is...

Timmy/Manu
Kobe/Pau
Dwill
CP3
D12
Westbrook
Dirk
DRose
Durant
Melo

Can't wait for the Spurs vs LA game...!

I think that should be Tony/Manu. Timmy's playing less and is definitely showing his age a bit more at this point (though he's still generally very solid when he's in). But TP and Manu have both been absolutely ruthless for them.

Pau over Kobe for me, also (big debate on that in the other thread). Some order issues I'd have aside, the rest look about right to me at this point.

edit: based on Avenged's comment right below me, definitely... Rondo has to be in the top ten.

Avenged
11-26-2010, 03:47 PM
I'd have Rondo in the top 10, seriously, I guess they forgot about him? I'd put Kobe in the top 5, I do think Gasol has been a bit better than him so far BUT I don't think he deserves that much credit over him..

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 03:48 PM
I'd have Rondo in the top 10, seriously, I guess they forgot about him? I'd put Kobe in the top 5, I do think Gasol has been a bit better than him so far BUT I don't think he deserves that much credit over him..

he missed 3 games. NBA.com does weekly updates, and if you didn't play, they penalize the crap out of you haha. With the season being such a small sample size, Rondo missing three games hurts him. Over 82 games, I will nearly guarantee you see him in the top 10 at the end of the year

alencp3
11-26-2010, 04:53 PM
At the end of the year i expect:
1.Durant
2.CP3
3.Kobe

I wouldnt be suprised if they give the award to Kobe due to popularity and only having one

D1JM
11-26-2010, 05:01 PM
Dwight finally getting the respect he deserves

Baller1
11-26-2010, 05:02 PM
I was wondering when we'd finally get this thread up here again.

goblazers7
11-26-2010, 05:05 PM
Ya

LTBaByyy
11-26-2010, 05:25 PM
Yeah dirk is playing as good if not better than his mvp year im kinda surprised with his age doing all this

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 05:30 PM
Yeah dirk is playing as good if not better than his mvp year im kinda surprised with his age doing all this

nah dude. His TS% is better currently, but everything else was better in 06-07'. And the reason Dirk is still playing so well is because to have his skillset at that height, he will age very, very well. I just wish he could win a championship at some point so he gets the credit he deserves. Always one of the top 5-6 players in the league

LTBaByyy
11-26-2010, 05:47 PM
nah dude. His TS% is better currently, but everything else was better in 06-07'. And the reason Dirk is still playing so well is because to have his skillset at that height, he will age very, very well. I just wish he could win a championship at some point so he gets the credit he deserves. Always one of the top 5-6 players in the league

yeah your totally right but im not talking about stats wise.cause he has wayy better talent around him than the mvp year and doesnt have to do as much

But just playing wise he is the same if not better when you sit down and watch him play

Especially that 4 point play against tge thunder while making it a fade away 3, topped it off

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 05:50 PM
yeah your totally right but im not talking about stats wise.cause he has wayy better talent around him than the mvp year and doesnt have to do much

But just playing wise he is the same if not better when you sit down and watch him play

Especially that 4 point play against tge thunder while making it a fade away 3, topped it off

I have only seen him play 2 games this season so far. Always loved Dirk. But no way he can be that good anymore. he was the best player on the planet that year. I guess I will reserve my judgement until I see him play a couple of times. I will try and watch tonight.

LTBaByyy
11-26-2010, 06:05 PM
I have only seen him play 2 games this season so far. Always loved Dirk. But no way he can be that good anymore. he was the best player on the planet that year. I guess I will reserve my judgement until I see him play a couple of times. I will try and watch tonight.

True, but please watch him tonight since the t wolves dont play

And post what you think in here

tredigs
11-26-2010, 06:23 PM
yeah your totally right but im not talking about stats wise.cause he has wayy better talent around him than the mvp year and doesnt have to do as much

But just playing wise he is the same if not better when you sit down and watch him play

Especially that 4 point play against tge thunder while making it a fade away 3, topped it off

That game was a couple days after I made a blockbuster trade for Dirk in my fantasy league, and it solidified my thoughts on him for this year going forward. He's looking like a bonafide monster this season, and is playing as good or better than I've seen at any point (Hawk's right, his game - like KD's - is one that is going to age really well). It's also a good sign that he's starting to take more threes in the past handful of games, the guy can rise over anyone out there and hits 'em at nearly 40%. You want a player like that taking ~4 a game, not 1-2.

I'd be more than fine with the Mavs taking down the ship while Dirk's still a superstar; I'd say he's more than done his part with his consistent regular/post-season dominance over the years (not to mention Cuban's dedication to that team, which can't be said for every owner).

Raph12
11-26-2010, 09:14 PM
Dwight finally getting the recognition he deserves, now hopefully he keeps it up while the other candidates drop off :p

Here's tonight's statline for the leading MVP candidate; 23-11-1-2-2 in a Magic W over the Cavs

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 12:30 AM
True, but please watch him tonight since the t wolves dont play

And post what you think in here

26 points on 14 attempts, in various ways of scoring? Wow. Dirk has always amazed me. I still don't think he can match his 05-08' run of play, but he is a great player man. His passing gets better every year too.

kArSoN RyDaH
11-27-2010, 12:36 AM
this performance against Utah defensively for Pau is why he shouldnt even be top 5! horrible. dwill millsap and jefferson scoring at will inside the paint. so many 2nd chance opportunities. Kobe was on fire in 4th but pau takes two big shots in the end and chokes. some MVP.

John Walls Era
11-27-2010, 12:43 AM
I'm really tired, but I think they didn't put Rondo. How can you not put him on there... if the Celtics finish at the top of the East, he better get it

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 01:17 AM
I'm really tired, but I think they didn't put Rondo. How can you not put him on there... if the Celtics finish at the top of the East, he better get it

re-post when you get some sleep.

Rondo is not even remotely close to being an MVP.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 01:18 AM
this performance against Utah defensively for Pau is why he shouldnt even be top 5! horrible. dwill millsap and jefferson scoring at will inside the paint. so many 2nd chance opportunities. Kobe was on fire in 4th but pau takes two big shots in the end and chokes. some MVP.

82 games of evidence is more important that 1.

Baller1
11-27-2010, 01:27 AM
Westbrook - Top 5.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 01:28 AM
Westbrook - Top 5.

haha, I was waiting for you or Carey to chime in after a 43-8-8 game by Russell. But you don't win MVP as the second best player on your team.

jimbobjarree
11-27-2010, 02:02 AM
russell and KD killing each others MVP hopes!

I'm sure nobody will care when they get a very high seed this season

also go DWill! I really hope he can get top 5 this season. In Jerry's system, thats an achievement

kArSoN RyDaH
11-27-2010, 02:53 AM
82 games of evidence is more important that 1.

and we haven't played 82 games yet. but even if you have watched the 16 games the lakers have played from beginning to end you will see this. but apparently people (im not saying you) just look at the stat sheet.

Baller1
11-27-2010, 04:35 AM
haha, I was waiting for you or Carey to chime in after a 43-8-8 game by Russell. But you don't win MVP as the second best player on your team.

Well as of now, Westbrook is by far the best player on the team this season. Durant still hasn't found his touch.

Raph12
11-27-2010, 04:42 AM
Westbrook = Thunder's MVP hands down, KD hasn't played up to par and Russell has been beasting... These guys may cancel each other out like Kobe and Gasol if they keep it up. :pray: ;)

Dwight 4 MVP!!! :p

Avenged
11-27-2010, 04:48 AM
Kobe for MVP! looks like it's going to be a tight race..

Although I believe Gasol deserves to be ahead of Kobe right now slightly, when it's all said and done, Kobe will get more consideration by voters since it's his team.

And congrats to Dwight, about time he gets some love.

alencp3
11-27-2010, 06:58 AM
Westbrook = Thunder's MVP hands down, KD hasn't played up to par and Russell has been beasting... These guys may cancel each other out like Kobe and Gasol if they keep it up. :pray: ;)

Dwight 4 MVP!!! :p
Dont forget that guy named Chris who is having 12-3 record with bunch of scrubs :)

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 11:24 AM
Well as of now, Westbrook is by far the best player on the team this season. Durant still hasn't found his touch.

do you expect that to continue?

Baller1
11-27-2010, 01:52 PM
do you expect that to continue?

Not at all, Durant started out very slow last year too, and then he went and ripped off that string of 30 games of 25+ points. He'll get it going, and then this team will be scary good if Westy keeps playing the way he is.

Raph12
11-27-2010, 03:38 PM
Dont forget that guy named Chris who is having 12-3 record with bunch of scrubs :)

Yeah but I don't expect that record to look nearly as good come April...

tredigs
11-27-2010, 03:55 PM
Yeah but I don't expect that record to look nearly as good come April...

Why not? They're a team that averaged 53 wins the two seasons before last years setback. They have the 3rd highest margin of victory in the West (behind LAL and SA), played Dallas strong in both meetings (taking one) and beat the Spurs + Heat when they were still going strong early on.

They're legit. As average as their cast is outside of Cp3, they're a probable HCA playoff seed in the west. He'll be a front-runner so long as he stays healthy.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 03:56 PM
Yeah but I don't expect that record to look nearly as good come April...

well, leading that roster to 50 wins in the west would be a greater accomplishment than Dwight leading his roster to 60 out east imo. Even taking away the conferences, the talent difference between the two rosters is fairly noticeable.

Raph12
11-27-2010, 07:29 PM
Why not? They're a team that averaged 53 wins the two seasons before last years setback. They have the 3rd highest margin of victory in the West (behind LAL and SA), played Dallas strong in both meetings (taking one) and beat the Spurs + Heat when they were still going strong early on.

They're legit. As average as their cast is outside of Cp3, they're a probable HCA playoff seed in the west. He'll be a front-runner so long as he stays healthy.

Well they went 2-2 this week, losing to the Clipps, and Utah (convincingly) I feel like they'll drop off from the elite mix. I don't consider Dallas to be a legit threat, plus they beat the Spurs before their big run and the Heat aren't a contender atm. They currently have a 12-3 record which is a 80% win rate, I have a hard time believing they'll be 66-16 by the end of the season.

If they don't finish in the top 3, I predict a 52 win season for 4th-6th, CP3 won't win it over Dwight if the Magic win the East.


well, leading that roster to 50 wins in the west would be a greater accomplishment than Dwight leading his roster to 60 out east imo. Even taking away the conferences, the talent difference between the two rosters is fairly noticeable.

I don't think you comprehend how difficult winning 60 games is in today's league, last season only the Cavs did it and this season the East is much stronger.

Btw Thorton-Ariza-West-Okafor sounds pretty good to me...

Raph12
11-27-2010, 10:55 PM
The leading MVP candidate, Dwight Howard, had another big night: 32pts-11rbs-1ast-2blks, he also scored the last 6pts by hitting two FTs (6 of 12 prior), a bank hook and the game-winner (down 1pt in each situation) to win the game. Clutch?... I think so.

Yes I know it was against Washington, but that's on the 2nd of a b2b and a night where Nick Young and Gilbert combined for 41 second-half points.

John Walls Era
11-28-2010, 12:26 AM
....

JayW_1023
11-28-2010, 05:59 AM
It's very close this year. Alot of players have a great early case. Personally DRose is my pick because the Bulls are winning and no team relies more on it's star right now.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 11:41 AM
Well they went 2-2 this week, losing to the Clipps, and Utah (convincingly) I feel like they'll drop off from the elite mix. I don't consider Dallas to be a legit threat, plus they beat the Spurs before their big run and the Heat aren't a contender atm. They currently have a 12-3 record which is a 80% win rate, I have a hard time believing they'll be 66-16 by the end of the season.

If they don't finish in the top 3, I predict a 52 win season for 4th-6th, CP3 won't win it over Dwight if the Magic win the East.



I don't think you comprehend how difficult winning 60 games is in today's league, last season only the Cavs did it and this season the East is much stronger.

Btw Thorton-Ariza-West-Okafor sounds pretty good to me...

nope, I comprehend it. I stick by my response though. If the Magic, who are supremely more talented 1-10 than the Hornets, only finish the season with 10 or less wins more, Paul deserves it in my book. His team is much less talented, and it would be a testament to how valuable Paul is if he gets that roster to win 50+

btw, Ariza sucked last year after being another glorified role player on a great team to cash in. Okafor hasn't improved since day 1. West was a 8-6 bench player before Paul showed up. Thorton? eh, we will see how he finishes. You will notice a common denominator in all of these players success however, outside Okafor, who has been solid but nothing special forever. The common is Chris Paul

tredigs
11-28-2010, 01:41 PM
The leading MVP candidate, Dwight Howard, had another big night: 32pts-11rbs-1ast-2blks, he also scored the last 6pts by hitting two FTs (6 of 12 prior), a bank hook and the game-winner (down 1pt in each situation) to win the game. Clutch?... I think so.

Yes I know it was against Washington, but that's on the 2nd of a b2b and a night where Nick Young and Gilbert combined for 41 second-half points.

Honestly, Dwight isn't even top 3 in any of the standard statistical categories. I'd imagine he's going to have to own blocks + boards while maintaining 23+ ppg if he wants to get the MVP over Cp3 (or Pau, Kobe, Durant/Westbrook, Lebron, etc), that's just how the voting works.

ko8e24
11-28-2010, 04:56 PM
So has Kobe won his 2nd career league MVP award yet? :)

5ass
11-28-2010, 05:24 PM
So has Kobe won his 2nd career league MVP award yet? :)

no and he never will

Raph12
11-28-2010, 09:59 PM
nope, I comprehend it. I stick by my response though. If the Magic, who are supremely more talented 1-10 than the Hornets, only finish the season with 10 or less wins more, Paul deserves it in my book. His team is much less talented, and it would be a testament to how valuable Paul is if he gets that roster to win 50+

btw, Ariza sucked last year after being another glorified role player on a great team to cash in. Okafor hasn't improved since day 1. West was a 8-6 bench player before Paul showed up. Thorton? eh, we will see how he finishes. You will notice a common denominator in all of these players success however, outside Okafor, who has been solid but nothing special forever. The common is Chris Paul

I personally believe the Hornets will finish anywhere from 47-52 wins and that's not enough to win MVP, period.

Ariza is a solid role player, trade him for Q-Rich or MP and the Magic would be all over it. Okafor is a solid starting center in the league, he's been a double-double guy most of his career and has always been a decent shotblocker. David West put up 19-8-3-1-1 in CP3's absence last year which is better than anyone else on the Magic and Thorton played great last year, but has been in the coach's doghouse all season thus far, but Bellineli has been solid as his replacement. CP3 has been balling out of his mind, but it won't last, chalk up another loss today, 12-4 and on the decline.


Honestly, Dwight isn't even top 3 in any of the standard statistical categories. I'd imagine he's going to have to own blocks + boards while maintaining 23+ ppg if he wants to get the MVP over Cp3 (or Pau, Kobe, Durant/Westbrook, Lebron, etc), that's just how the voting works.

What you mean "per game" categories lol?... Cmon dude, you're one of the better posters here and you should know as well as I do that per game stats don't mean ****.

Dwight's leading the league in DWS and DRAT, Top 3 in PER (0.1 behind Pau), Top 5 in DRB%, RB%, WS and WSP48M... Not to mention his team is 1st in the East, while leading the NBA in DEFF, DRB% and DRAT. His per game stats will continue to get better as he plays more minutes, but I think if he can even continue what he's doing while the Magic win the East, he'll win MVP.

tredigs
11-28-2010, 10:11 PM
I personally believe the Hornets will finish anywhere from 47-52 wins and that's not enough to win MVP, period.

Ariza is a solid role player, trade him for Q-Rich or MP and the Magic would be all over it. Okafor is a solid starting center in the league, he's been a double-double guy most of his career and has always been a decent shotblocker. David West put up 19-8-3-1-1 in CP3's absence last year which is better than anyone else on the Magic and Thorton played great last year, but has been in the coach's doghouse all season thus far, but Bellineli has been solid as his replacement. CP3 has been balling out of his mind, but it won't last, chalk up another loss today, 12-4 and on the decline.



What you mean "per game" categories lol?... Cmon dude, you're one of the better posters here and you should know as well as I do that per game stats don't mean ****.

Dwight's leading the league in DWS and DRAT, Top 3 in PER (0.1 behind Pau), Top 5 in DRB%, RB%, WS and WSP48M... Not to mention his team is 1st in the East, while leading the NBA in DEFF, DRB% and DRAT. His per game stats will continue to get better as he plays more minutes, but I think if he can even continue what he's doing while the Magic win the East, he'll win MVP.

I'm with ya bro, but it's not about what matters to me or you, it's what matters to the voters. If you're not top 3 in at least one of the "points, rebounds, assists, blocks" categories, you're going to have a very tough time earning an MVP (and blocks/rebounds are already the less admired stats to MVP voters).

Hurts that he's a poor passer, as well. If he could get to the point of averaging 23+ ppg alongside 3.5+ assists per game, his case at the end of the season would be much stronger.

Raph12
11-29-2010, 01:08 AM
I'm with ya bro, but it's not about what matters to me or you, it's what matters to the voters. If you're not top 3 in at least one of the "points, rebounds, assists, blocks" categories, you're going to have a very tough time earning an MVP (and blocks/rebounds are already the less admired stats to MVP voters).

Hurts that he's a poor passer, as well. If he could get to the point of averaging 23+ ppg alongside 3.5+ assists per game, his case at the end of the season would be much stronger.

Well the way I see it, he's a guy who could get 15-25rbs and 5-10blks on any given night. I think he'll lead the league in blocks again, he's at 2.4bpg and the league leader is at 2.8, not a big dropoff; rebounds he'll probably finish 2nd to Love.

Passing is an issue, but that has a lot to do with the Magic's system, he gets a lot of hockey assists, he doesn't just make plays at the top of the key the way guys like Duncan and Gasol do, he just posts up and if they double he'll dish out and they'll move it around until they get an open look... I don't see him eclipsing 2apg.

In other news: Gasol was shutdown by another above-avg big today in Hibbert; 13pts on 5-15 shooting with 5 turnovers (guess Dwight will be #2 in PER after tonight), while Roy lit him up for 24pts on 9-13 shooting... Like I said, Gasol struggles in isos when playing against a good defensive center, he's a PF and is showing it against some of the better centers.

Baller1
11-29-2010, 01:16 AM
Westbrook is top 5. That's all I gotta say.

Avenged
11-29-2010, 01:18 AM
Well the way I see it, he's a guy who could get 15-25rbs and 5-10blks on any given night. I think he'll lead the league in blocks again, he's at 2.4bpg and the league leader is at 2.8, not a big dropoff; rebounds he'll probably finish 2nd to Love.

Passing is an issue, but that has a lot to do with the Magic's system, he gets a lot of hockey assists, he doesn't just make plays at the top of the key the way guys like Duncan and Gasol do, he just posts up and if they double he'll dish out and they'll move it around until they get an open look... I don't see him eclipsing 2apg.

In other news: Gasol was shutdown by another above-avg big today in Hibbert; 13pts on 5-15 shooting with 5 turnovers (guess Dwight will be #2 in PER after tonight), while Roy lit him up for 24pts on 9-13 shooting... Like I said, Gasol struggles in isos when playing against a good defensive center, he's a PF and is showing it against some of the better centers.

Gasol is just burned out, he's playing a ton of minutes this season. Tonight he played 45 minutes, practically the whole game. He was rather solid last season, but he has been struggling this season which in my opinion is due to the amount of minutes he's been playing.. No excuses though, to be MVP players have to show up all the time, major minutes or not.

kArSoN RyDaH
11-29-2010, 01:26 AM
Kobe is MVP right now.

Raph12
11-29-2010, 01:33 AM
Gasol is just burned out, he's playing a ton of minutes this season. Tonight he played 45 minutes, practically the whole game. He was rather solid last season, but he has been struggling this season which in my opinion is due to the amount of minutes he's been playing.. No excuses though, to be MVP players have to show up all the time, major minutes or not.

Well the way I see it, he had bad offensive games against Denver, Milwaukee, Chicago, Minni and now Indiana. Each team has a physical defensive big (Nene, Bogut, Darko/Love, Noah and Hibbert), so I don't think it's just an issue of being burned out. Gasol is a PF, playing against good, physical, defensive centers is hard for him to do, he's out of position and in some situations it doesn't make a difference and could even help (against teams like GS, Phoenix, Toronto, etc...), but against the better centers he's been outplayed more times than not... No knock on him, he's just out of position, but with that being said, his individual stats are always better when Bynum isn't on the floor, soooo.... :shrug:

This is just another example of Kobe playing better in the face of adversity and Gasol shying away from the challenge. IMO Kobe is still the leader of this team in every way, and will continue to prove it as the season goes on.


Kobe is MVP right now.

Sorry dude, that title goes to Dwight atm... Kobe is 2nd though.

Avenged
11-29-2010, 01:39 AM
Well the way I see it, he had bad offensive games against Denver, Milwaukee, Chicago, Minni and now Indiana. Each team has a physical defensive big (Nene, Bogut, Darko/Love, Noah and Hibbert), so I don't think it's just an issue of being burned out. Gasol is a PF, playing against good, physical, defensive centers is hard for him to do, he's out of position and in some situations it doesn't make a difference and could even help (against teams like GS, Phoenix, Toronto, etc...), but against the better centers he's been outplayed more times than not... No knock on him, he's just out of position, but with that being said, his individual stats are always better when Bynum isn't on the floor, soooo.... :shrug:

This is just another example of Kobe playing better in the face of adversity and Gasol shying away from the challenge. IMO Kobe is still the leader of this team in every way, and will continue to prove it as the season goes on.



Sorry dude, that title goes to Dwight atm... Kobe is 2nd though.

And that's what it comes down to, him being out of position. We're asking him to be this dominant Center when he clearly is not. He's arguably the best PF, but being out of position leaves him at a disadvantage seeing as how he isn't necessarily the toughest player on the court. And he obviously gets better stats when Drew isn't playing because he has more room to operate on the post and gets more touches. It's defensively where he struggles [mainly], not the offensive end. With Bynum there, he protects the paint and does all the dirty work.

I'm not even arguing that Gasol should be MVP, I'm just saying he's been playing a ton of minutes since the Lakers have no depth to relieve him with Theo and Bynum out.

BTW, yes Kobe is definitely the leader of the Lakers. I don't think anyone should really be arguing that.

Raph12
11-29-2010, 01:44 AM
And that's what it comes down to, him being out of position. We're asking him to be this dominant Center when he clearly is not. He's arguably the best PF, but being out of position leaves him at a disadvantage seeing as how he isn't necessarily the toughest player on the court. And he obviously gets better stats when Drew isn't playing because he has more room to operate on the post and gets more touches. It's defensively where he struggles [mainly], not the offensive end. With Bynum there, he protects the paint and does all the dirty work.

I'm not even arguing that Gasol should be MVP, I'm just saying he's been playing a ton of minutes since the Lakers have no depth to relieve him with Theo and Bynum out.

BTW, yes Kobe is definitely the leader of the Lakers. I don't think anyone should really be arguing that.

I can agree with everything here... Good post.

Just like to add; doing more on the defensive end (protecting the paint, help defense, guarding bigger guys, etc...) also takes more energy out of him that he could've used on the offensive end.

kArSoN RyDaH
11-29-2010, 01:59 AM
kobe and dwight tied for MVP then :p lol

JordansBulls
11-29-2010, 09:23 AM
Kobe is MVP right now.

Naw. He is only shooting 43% this year.

JayW_1023
11-29-2010, 10:12 AM
Gotta put Manu in there somewhere. He is the Spurs best player right now, and they have the best record.

News24/7
11-29-2010, 11:06 AM
Naw. He is only shooting 43% this year.

Since when was FG% the deciding factor? :laugh:

I think it's Dwight then Kobe right now but FG% is not even close to a factor of MVP if that's your reason. If it was the case, the best bigmen in the league would win the award every year.

Minimal
11-29-2010, 11:30 AM
If I need to choose right now, I would choose Dwight Howard or Chris Paul looking at the team records.
1. Dwight Howard
2. Chris Paul
3. Rajon Rondo
4. Pau Gasol
5. Dirk Nowitzki

JayW_1023
11-29-2010, 11:39 AM
My list.

1. Derrick Rose - No team relies more in it's superstar than Chicago. He has been absolutely dominant.
2. CP3 - Almost the same as Rose, but Rose is more dominant now
3. Manu Ginobili - Best player on the team with the best record.
4. Dirk - Playing the best defense of his career and shooting a blistering percentage, crazy seeing how much he shoots from outside
5. Kobe Bryant - Hasn't shown any signs of slowing down despite people claiming he lost a step, he is still a top 3 player.
6. Dwight Howard - He is playing arguably his best season, and improved his production outside the paint. Still the Magic have been inconsistent
7. Rajon Rondo - He has been dominant despite low scoring numbers, the last thing a player got praise like that from me was a prime Jason Kidd. Controlling games without shooting is an art by itself, which Rondo has mastered. How many scrawny PG's go up for offensive rebounds like he does?
8. Pau Gasol - Has been carrying the Lakers more than ever for stretches.
9. Deron Williams - Has been running his team like a true coach on the floor...and gives them an underdog mentality with so many come back from behind W's.
10. Russell Westbrook - Has arguably had a better season than Durant so far, and has the numbers to prove it.

News24/7
11-29-2010, 11:42 AM
for me i got:

1. Dwight Howard
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Chris Paul
4. Derrick Rose
5. Dirk

jackdawson
11-29-2010, 11:57 AM
Gasol, Westbrook, Howard, CP3, and Rondo are my top 5 in no particular order.

Baller1
11-29-2010, 12:19 PM
1. Manu
2. CP3
3. Dwight
4. Westbrook
5. Kobe

Avenged
11-29-2010, 02:32 PM
Since everyone is doing it..:

1. Dwight
2. CP3
3. Kobe
4. Gasol
5. Dirk

kArSoN RyDaH
11-29-2010, 02:35 PM
Naw. He is only shooting 43% this year.

Kobe is having his highest PER since he won the MVP.

Also his TS% is just above last years TS%.

Aside from 2 really poor shooting games by him, he has been extremely efficient from the field. That will only go up with time.


and just like vvv he said FG% is not a deciding factor when talking about MVP.


Since when was FG% the deciding factor? :laugh:

I think it's Dwight then Kobe right now but FG% is not even close to a factor of MVP if that's your reason. If it was the case, the best bigmen in the league would win the award every year.

exactly.

kArSoN RyDaH
11-29-2010, 02:37 PM
1a. Dwight 1b. Kobe
3. CP3
4. Dirk.
5. Gasol

ManRam
11-29-2010, 02:51 PM
Gotta be Dwight. He finally has the offensive game. Fouls are holding him back. But he means more and makes a bigger impact defensively than any one player even comes close to offensively. His defense is just indescribably amazing.

1. Dwight
2. Paul
3. Gasol
4. Manu
5. Dirk
6. Kobe
7. Rondo
8. Rose
9. Westbrook
10. Williams

D1JM
11-29-2010, 02:56 PM
Gotta be Dwight. He finally has the offensive game. Fouls are holding him back. But he means more and makes a bigger impact defensively than any one player even comes close to offensively. His defense is just indescribably amazing.

1. Dwight
2. Paul
3. Gasol
4. Manu
5. Dirk
6. Kobe
7. Rondo
8. Rose
9. Westbrook
10. Williams

Thats why Dwight keeps on being DPOY every year and not MVP. His defence overshadows his offense.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 02:58 PM
Thats why Dwight keeps on being DPOY every year and not MVP. His defence overshadows his offense.

well he finally does play offense now. He has hit 11 shots outside the paint this year, 21 total last year.
The DPOY is what he is given every year, and I honestly think that hurts him. The media figures, "Eh, Dwight got a major award, we need to give the MVP to ....."

D1JM
11-29-2010, 03:05 PM
well he finally does play offense now. He has hit 11 shots outside the paint this year, 21 total last year.
The DPOY is what he is given every year, and I honestly think that hurts him. The media figures, "Eh, Dwight got a major award, we need to give the MVP to ....."

Yup and Dwight should keep on improving that ouTside shot and stop being that one dimensional offensive player. There has only been four players that have won both MVP and DPOY

bulldog312
11-29-2010, 03:43 PM
I don't think there is any way Kobe or Gasol wins the MVP this year. It's just very rare that a player wins MVP with another MVP candidate on the same team. In order to be "most valuable," they have to be the only true superstar on the team.

KG2TB
11-29-2010, 04:17 PM
I think D-Will has a legit chance of winning it if the Jazz finish with a top 2-3 seed in the west and he keeps playing the way he has. CP3 is up there but he's not even on par with his best seasons in which he didn't even win the MVP. I think it's gonna come down to Dwight or D-Will

tangent12
11-29-2010, 04:39 PM
Rose is playing the most impressive out of that list.

Minimal
11-29-2010, 04:57 PM
Rose is playing the most impressive out of that list.
For every Bulls fan Rose plays the most impressive, but not for others.

finalverse
11-29-2010, 06:05 PM
Lots of Rose haters. Everytime someone has a positive opinion on Rose or the Bulls the haters have to come out and argue against it or something lol. Bulls have a good record and Rose is putting up the stats to back it up. His stats might go down once the year is said and done but for the first month...there is no denying he is in the conversation.

Baller1
11-29-2010, 06:08 PM
Lots of Rose haters. Everytime someone has a positive opinion on Rose or the Bulls the haters have to come out and argue against it or something lol. Bulls have a good record and Rose is putting up the stats to back it up. His stats might go down once the year is said and done but for the first month...there is no denying he is in the conversation.

No one's denying he's in the conversation, but to say he's number 1 is a stretch.

finalverse
11-29-2010, 06:22 PM
No one's denying he's in the conversation, but to say he's number 1 is a stretch.His is number 1 in Points/Rebounds/Assists combined. Yet he is a strech?

JordansBulls
11-29-2010, 06:22 PM
1a. Dwight 1b. Kobe
3. CP3
4. Dirk.
5. Gasol

I respectfully disagree at this point. Just don't see how a guy is the mvp favorite or top 3 when his teammate leads the team in both Win Shares and PER currently.

Baller1
11-29-2010, 06:40 PM
His is number 1 in Points/Rebounds/Assists combined. Yet he is a strech?

I wasn't aware those were the only three stats in the NBA.

How about:
Blocks
Steals
FG%
FT%
PER
Ts%

And many more.

Minimal
11-29-2010, 06:40 PM
His is number 1 in Points/Rebounds/Assists combined. Yet he is a strech?
This stat says absolutely nothing. Rose shouldn't be considered an MVP more than Russell Westbrook atleast, who is head over Rose in MVP race.

ManRam
11-29-2010, 06:46 PM
Thats why Dwight keeps on being DPOY every year and not MVP. His defence overshadows his offense.

My point is, what he does on defense is more important and valuable to his team than what any other MVP candidate and their respective contributions on offense. Now that he had the offense to boot, I think he deserves some credit.

Defense just isn't rated enough. If it was held in equal light as offense, as I'd argue it should, he'd be a slam dunk (sorry for the pun).

Just look at this thread. Besides dwight, when has defense been uttered here? Dwight turns a squad of poor defenders into a perennial top three defensive team. That is MVP worthy IMO.

The MVP award is considered the offensive equivalent of the DPOY and that I think will unfairly hurt dwight

finalverse
11-29-2010, 06:52 PM
I wasn't aware those were the only three stats in the NBA.Give me a break. Those are the three most talked about stats in the NBA. No offensive to you but there is absolutely no point in discussing anything Rose and or Bulls related to you of all people.

jp611
11-29-2010, 06:53 PM
d-rose or dwight

finalverse
11-29-2010, 06:54 PM
This stat says absolutely nothing. Rose shouldn't be considered an MVP more than Russell Westbrook atleast, who is head over Rose in MVP race.That's great and all. Feel free to make your point for Russell Westbrook. I don't get why you need to bring down another player instead of proping up the guy you would vote for. That's like if someone says Russel Westbrook is MVP and I come in and try to disprove it. It's just ********.

Baller1
11-29-2010, 07:10 PM
Give me a break. Those are the three most talked about stats in the NBA. No offensive to you but there is absolutely no point in discussing anything Rose and or Bulls related to you of all people.

Wow, you're even less knowledgable of NBA statistics than I thought.

Minimal
11-29-2010, 07:19 PM
That's great and all. Feel free to make your point for Russell Westbrook. I don't get why you need to bring down another player instead of proping up the guy you would vote for. That's like if someone says Russel Westbrook is MVP and I come in and try to disprove it. It's just ********.
Did I said I would vote for Westbrook? No.
I already said that MVP right now is Dwight.
Westbrook for me stands at 6 for MVP race.
You know why he is much better in MVP race than Rose?
1. His team has better team record than Rose's
2. He is more effective than Rose
I ain't no ****ing Rose hater, but I'm sick of Bulls homers praising him like he is a god.
In last seven or more years MVP was a guy on the team, which had atleast 3rd best record in the league. So Rose is nothing near to be an MVP, so does Westbrook. Capish?

mttwlsn16
11-29-2010, 07:29 PM
I dont like the Cs but Rondo is definitely top 5...and if i wanna be a homer how bout Blake Griffin MVP...joking but finally i have a reason to watch the Clipp win or lose theyre exciting as hell bc of him

finalverse
11-29-2010, 07:40 PM
I ain't no ****ing Rose hater, but I'm sick of Bulls homers praising him like he is a god.A Rose hater is one who feels the need to chime in everytime someone talks positively about him. Does it bother you that much that if somone wants to mention Rose in an MVP thread, then you have to come in and say why someone is more worthy or why Rose isn't worthy?

finalverse
11-29-2010, 07:44 PM
Wow, you're even less knowledgable of NBA statistics than I thought.So you're saying those 3 stats aren't the most talked about stats in the NBA? All I know is that any chance you get to knock the Bulls you'll do it. In the other thread regarding the new NBA rankings...you go out your way to say why OKC should be higher than the Bulls. It's hard to explain or discuss with someone who has an agenda and you clearly do.

Stick to your team and your players. There is no need to knock other teams and other players in the process. Be proud of your team. They have a bright future. No need to be so hateful and resentful. Westbrook is a very nice player. You could have done much worse.

Minimal
11-29-2010, 07:52 PM
A Rose hater is one who feels the need to chime in everytime someone talks positively about him. Does it bother you that much that if somone wants to mention Rose in an MVP thread, then you have to come in and say why someone is more worthy or why Rose isn't worthy?
You have my answer in my quote already. I'm sick of Bulls homers who praise him as a god.
You said he looks the most impressive. Which is blef. There are a lot of better players who look more impressive than him.

So from your perspective I can come in this thread and say LeBron or Matt Bonner is the MVP and should get no reply?

finalverse
11-29-2010, 07:57 PM
You said he looks the most impressive.?I'm trying to find where I said that but am having trouble. Mind pointing it out?


So from your perspective I can come in this thread and say LeBron or Matt Bonner is the MVP and should get no reply?Personally I wouldn't care if you think Matt Bonner is MVP worthy. You even say it in your post that the main reason you have a problem with Rose is because Bulls fans talk too highly of him. Don't let it get to you so much. If you sit back and really think about it...does it really matter if us Bulls fan think he's the best. If in your mind you KNOW he isn't the best then that is all that should matter.

Shmontaine
11-29-2010, 08:03 PM
lol... i'm not a hater, but let's hate...

to be #2 in the league in ppg , #8 in apg, #9 in efficiency, #1 in pts/rebs/ast is pretty damn good... if it was anybody other than drose, just the stats... nobody would argue... but you guys aren't haters... sure...

JayW_1023
11-29-2010, 08:16 PM
This is no hate towards Kobe, but even though he is one year younger than Manu, he plays alot older. Mamba is still better, but I noticed Manu has alot more lift and quickness in his game.

Milage can make age really relative,you know.

sargon21
11-29-2010, 08:29 PM
lol... i'm not a hater, but let's hate...

to be #2 in the league in ppg , #8 in apg, #9 in efficiency, #1 in pts/rebs/ast is pretty damn good... if it was anybody other than drose, just the stats... nobody would argue... but you guys aren't haters... sure...

what stat are you using for efficiency?

Shmontaine
11-29-2010, 08:34 PM
what stat are you using for efficiency?

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp

kArSoN RyDaH
11-29-2010, 09:55 PM
PER is a better gauge for a players efficiency, I don't believe those stats on NBA.com for efficiency are as accurate as PER.

Baller1
11-29-2010, 10:30 PM
PER is a better gauge for a players efficiency, I don't believe those stats on NBA.com for efficiency are as accurate as PER.

You're exactly right.

sargon21
11-29-2010, 11:02 PM
ehh, they seem fine

finalverse
11-29-2010, 11:08 PM
yep when you are looking at a players efficiency, the last thing you want to look at is nba.com's efficiency numbers.

Raph12
11-30-2010, 12:30 AM
Well chalk up another loss for CP3, Westbrook is making his case, although those 8 turnovers will hurt him... DWIGHT FOR MVP!!!

Baller1
11-30-2010, 12:44 AM
Did you really have to quote him Raph?! Come on now... Show some courtesy, you're just filling up the page. :laugh2:

finalverse
11-30-2010, 12:50 AM
Dude did the same thing in the Bulls forum. Sounds like an angry fan who's just a hater.

Raph12
11-30-2010, 01:01 AM
Did you really have to quote him Raph?! Come on now... Show some courtesy, you're just filling up the page. :laugh2:

I know lol :cool:

Westbrook's beasting for you guys, definite MIP candidate if he drops off the MVP race...

PrettyBoyJ
11-30-2010, 01:03 AM
As early as it is in the season, some players will not maintain the same consistency.. Kobe is goin to have a crazy second half which will ultimately put him over the top to win the award

Baller1
11-30-2010, 01:04 AM
I know lol :cool:

Westbrook's beasting for you guys, definite MIP candidate if he drops off the MVP race...

Yeah, I just wish KD would play like KD. :(

But whatever, until then, I can live with Westbrook leading us to a .750 record. The MVP race as of now is a lot different than everyone expected it to be. People like Manu, Rose, and Westbrook have forced their way onto the list this season.

D1JM
11-30-2010, 01:10 AM
Yeah, I just wish KD would play like KD. :(

But whatever, until then, I can live with Westbrook leading us to a .750 record. The MVP race as of now is a lot different than everyone expected it to be. People like Manu, Rose, and Westbrook have forced their way onto the list this season.

Maybe you should change ur sig to Westbrook>durant :D

bovice163
11-30-2010, 01:10 AM
Until KD shows that he's the clear cut better player this season than Westy in OKC, I have Dwight winning MVP this year. Dude played incredible defense in nearly his whole NBA career, and now that he has fine tuned his offense even more it would be a shame if he didn't win it. If only Dwight could hit his free throws, then he would be a perennial MVP winner.

Baller1
11-30-2010, 01:15 AM
Maybe you should change ur sig to Westbrook>durant :D

Ehhhh... I'll think about it. :p

Raph12
11-30-2010, 01:23 AM
Yeah, I just wish KD would play like KD. :(

But whatever, until then, I can live with Westbrook leading us to a .750 record. The MVP race as of now is a lot different than everyone expected it to be. People like Manu, Rose, and Westbrook have forced their way onto the list this season.

Naw I'm glad he's struggling, gave Westbrook and the rest of the Thunder a chance to prove it's not all about KD... Plus it makes Dwight look better in the race. :D;):p

Baller1
11-30-2010, 01:44 AM
Naw I'm glad he's struggling, gave Westbrook and the rest of the Thunder a chance to prove it's not all about KD... Plus it makes Dwight look better in the race. :D;):p

We all know that's the actual reason. :laugh2:

Raph12
11-30-2010, 02:01 AM
We all know that's the actual reason. :laugh2:

And I won't deny it lol, I want Dwight to win it badly and hope w/e it takes happens (besides injuries, don't like seeing guys get hurt)... DWIGHT FOR MVP!

sargon21
11-30-2010, 02:12 AM
And I won't deny it lol, I want Dwight to win it badly and hope w/e it takes happens (besides injuries, don't like seeing guys get hurt)... DWIGHT FOR MVP!

Your MVP candidate better not injure our MVP candidate on Wednesday, or you'll have a whole stadium of people coming for your MVP candidate lol, and one of those will be me.

You'd prob want that tho; it seems all you're interested in is eliminating competition :laugh2:

Baller1
11-30-2010, 02:40 AM
And I won't deny it lol, I want Dwight to win it badly and hope w/e it takes happens (besides injuries, don't like seeing guys get hurt)... DWIGHT FOR MVP!

I know, I wanted Durant to get it so bad last year.

Kenny
11-30-2010, 02:41 AM
Am I missing something? Dirk is on a 13-4 team shooting a amazing 55 percent while averaging 26 a night. I don't see anyone playing on his level night in and night out his consistency been amazing. I guess if your not on a team with a lot of fans on this site you don't get recognized.

I would have it right now as... Dirk, rose, Dwight, Gasol

Baller1
11-30-2010, 02:45 AM
Am I missing something? Dirk is on a 13-4 team shooting a amazing 55 percent while averaging 26 a night. I don't see anyone playing on his level night in and night out his consistency been amazing. I guess if your not on a team with a lot of fans on this site you don't get recognized.

I would have it right now as... Dirk, rose, Dwight, Gasol

Or maybe other players have been playing better? Shocking, I know.

kArSoN RyDaH
11-30-2010, 02:47 AM
is it possible there is a 4 way tie for MVP right now? dwight, rose, kobe and dirk? all are playing exceptionally well. cp3 keeps losing, that has to drop him.

Raph12
11-30-2010, 02:50 AM
I know, I wanted Durant to get it so bad last year.

Kind of happy LBJ went to Miami, now he's out of the race for good lol...


Your MVP candidate better not injure our MVP candidate on Wednesday, or you'll have a whole stadium of people coming for your MVP candidate lol, and one of those will be me.

You'd prob want that tho; it seems all you're interested in is eliminating competition :laugh2:

Well it's not my MVP candidate's fault that your MVP candidate has a habit of attacking my MVP candidate and using his off-arm to create space so he doesn't get blocked. Both times your MVP candidate went down, my MVP candidate went straight up, nothing personal, maybe your MVP candidate should take my MVP candidate's advice and go up with two feet instead of one so he has better balance when contact is created.

Anyways, DWIGHT FOR MVP! :cool:

sargon21
11-30-2010, 03:24 AM
Kind of happy LBJ went to Miami, now he's out of the race for good lol...



Well it's not my MVP candidate's fault that your MVP candidate has a habit of attacking my MVP candidate and using his off-arm to create space so he doesn't get blocked. Both times your MVP candidate went down, my MVP candidate went straight up, nothing personal, maybe your MVP candidate should take my MVP candidate's advice and go up with two feet instead of one so he has better balance when contact is created.

Anyways, DWIGHT FOR MVP! :cool:

Haha, yea I'm just playin', 2 feet would slow down Rose soo much though, so that wouldn't be as fun to watch haha

It's gonna be a great game, and the latest word is that Boozer will start.

Baller1
11-30-2010, 03:26 AM
Haha, yea I'm just playin', 2 feet would slow down Rose soo much though, so that wouldn't be as fun to watch haha

It's gonna be a great game, and the latest word is that Boozer will start.

Tomorrow?!

Furymaker
11-30-2010, 03:30 AM
Tomorrow?!

yeah baby ^^
Boozer is coming back ;)
It looks like you're surprised ?

Kenny
11-30-2010, 03:34 AM
Or maybe other players have been playing better? Shocking, I know.

whose played better then him???

Raph12
11-30-2010, 03:40 AM
Haha, yea I'm just playin', 2 feet would slow down Rose soo much though, so that wouldn't be as fun to watch haha

It's gonna be a great game, and the latest word is that Boozer will start.

Well most of our guys will be a bit tired from playing tomorrow, we suck on the 2nd of b2bs, lost to Miami by 26 (beat them by 9 when rested), hell we almost lost to Wiz lol (beat them by 29 when rested lol)... But no excuses, I expect Dwight to be beast regardless, I predict a Magic victory by less than double-digits.

Here's to a great game :cheers:

Baller1
11-30-2010, 03:41 AM
yeah baby ^^
Boozer is coming back ;)
It looks like you're surprised ?

I am. I didn't know he was already cleared to come back. But when I think about it, we are already pretty far into the season.

Just seemed so fast.

Baller1
11-30-2010, 03:41 AM
whose played better then him???

Dwight, Rose, Westbrook, Manu off the top of my head. Maybe D-Will and CP3 as well.

Furymaker
11-30-2010, 03:47 AM
Drose and Westbrook are better than Rondo .

Furymaker
11-30-2010, 03:48 AM
I am. I didn't know he was already cleared to come back. But when I think about it, we are already pretty far into the season.

Just seemed so fast.

i share same thoughts as you :)
Bulls will be scary with Boozer back , can't wait till Magic game :clap:

Baller1
11-30-2010, 04:07 AM
Just for everyone's sake:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2011&p2=rosede01&y2=2011&p3=paulch01&y3=2011&p4=willide01&y4=2011

Raph12
11-30-2010, 04:28 AM
Just for everyone's sake:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2011&p2=rosede01&y2=2011&p3=paulch01&y3=2011&p4=willide01&y4=2011

Damn it's even more lopsided then I thought, after looking at this:

1. CP3
.
.
.
.
.
2. Westbrook
.
.
.
3. Who cares

CP3 is balling out of his mind right now, who knew you could do so much with so little. Westbrook looking sharp atm, let's hope he keeps it up (if he does it'll take Durant out of the race lol). :D

Blazers#1Fan
11-30-2010, 04:57 AM
THIS IS DHOWARDS YEAR.....durant aint having the year he had last year with westbrook scoring more

My Top 5
1.D.HOWARD
2.WESTBROOK
3.DURANT
4.KOBE
5.RONDO

Baller1
11-30-2010, 11:57 AM
Damn it's even more lopsided then I thought, after looking at this:

1. CP3
.
.
.
.
.
2. Westbrook
.
.
.
3. Who cares

CP3 is balling out of his mind right now, who knew you could do so much with so little. Westbrook looking sharp atm, let's hope he keeps it up (if he does it'll take Durant out of the race lol). :D

I honestly didn't think the differences were so clear cut either. I was just doing it for the hell of it, and didn't expect the results to be like that. It won't stay that way though, I expect D-Will to end up being the clear cut #2.

Raph12
11-30-2010, 01:40 PM
I honestly didn't think the differences were so clear cut either. I was just doing it for the hell of it, and didn't expect the results to be like that. It won't stay that way though, I expect D-Will to end up being the clear cut #2.

Well if Westbrook keeps this up for a full year with Durant coming back to form, OKC will be damn scary so yeah, I expect him to drop off a bit and defer to KD more. But currently CP3 is on the sun, with Westbrook on Mars, everyone else is somewhere near Jupiter.

Avenged
11-30-2010, 01:52 PM
Yep, Chris Paul is just on another level.. Shame that his team will most likely not land in the top 3 out West which will really hurt his chances for MVP. Thing about him too is that he's playing less minutes than Rose, Westbrook, and Deron but he's still contributing more than them in most statistical categories..

Westbrook is playing great as well, he's the #2 point guard as of right now whether anyone wants to admit or not, and yes he's playing better than Rose at the moment. Rose needs to bring his efficiency up along with his Win Shares, the good thing about him is that he's shown improvement each season he's been the league. Currently, he's more comparable to Deron, which is actually a great praise for him.

As of right now in terms of PG's:

1. Chris Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Deron
4. Parker/Rose

By the end of the MVP voting I'd expect something like:
1. Chris Paul
2. Rose/Deron
3. Rose/Deron
4. Westbrook.

I'll have Westbrook 4th not because I think he'll digress, but because I expect Durant to pick it up.

BTW, there's a point guard in San Antonio who has a legitimate right to be in talks among these point guards. He's currently comparable to Rose and Deron, and not to mention his team has the best record in the league which is looked at greatly among voters..

Raph12
11-30-2010, 03:06 PM
^I agree Parker should be considered among PGs, but he is not the MVP of the Spurs, nor is Duncan or Ginobli. The Spurs success has more to do with health, chemistry, coaching and the rejuvenation of Richard Jefferson. To single out Parker for praise and not include the rest of the roster (even guys like Blair, Hill and Bonner are playing great) would just be ignorant.

So I just leave the whole Spurs team out of MVP talks, they have no single MVP.

Baller1
11-30-2010, 03:33 PM
Just a fun fact:

The only players in the last 40 years to average at least 23 points, 8 assists, and 5 rebounds for an entire season are Lebron James, Gary Payton, Michael Jordan, and Magic Johnson. Russell Westbrook is currently averaging ~24 points, 8.5 assists, and 5 rebounds.

Raph12
11-30-2010, 03:46 PM
Just a fun fact:

The only players in the last 40 years to average at least 23 points, 8 assists, and 5 rebounds for an entire season are Lebron James, Gary Payton, Michael Jordan, and Magic Johnson. Russell Westbrook is currently averaging ~24 points, 8.5 assists, and 5 rebounds.

Just another couple of fun facts ;)

The only player in NBA history to lead the league in blocks and rebounds in b2b seasons is Dwight Howard, no player has won DPOY three years b2b2b and the only two players to win MVP and DPOY in the same season are Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwan.

Baller1
11-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Just another couple of fun facts ;)

The only player in NBA history to lead the league in blocks and rebounds in b2b seasons is Dwight Howard, no player has won DPOY three years b2b2b and the only two players to win MVP and DPOY in the same season are Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwan.

Mine's better. :)

Raph12
11-30-2010, 04:04 PM
Mine's better. :)

Nuh-uh... Rose joined elite company while Dwight's making history... Mine is better.

Baller1
11-30-2010, 04:31 PM
Nuh-uh... Rose joined elite company while Dwight's making history... Mine is better.

Too bad I was talking about Westbrook, not Rose.

I win.

D1JM
11-30-2010, 04:35 PM
Just a fun fact:

The only players in the last 40 years to average at least 23 points, 8 assists, and 5 rebounds for an entire season are Lebron James, Gary Payton, Michael Jordan, and Magic Johnson. Russell Westbrook is currently averaging ~24 points, 8.5 assists, and 5 rebounds.

really? so rose is just .4 reb away from that mark :rolleyes: lol

Raph12
11-30-2010, 04:38 PM
Too bad I was talking about Westbrook, not Rose.

I win.

LMFAO!!! Wow that other dude has me completely talking like him, I'm not making sense anywhere lol.

Anyways, if Westbrook can keep this up, he'll be deserving of a max contract for sure, can you guys afford that?

Baller1
11-30-2010, 04:40 PM
LMFAO!!! Wow that other dude has me completely talking like him, I'm not making sense anywhere lol.

Anyways, if Westbrook can keep this up, he'll be deserving of a max contract for sure, can you guys afford that?

We can easily afford it, the problem would be having enough money to pay everyone else (Ibaka, Harden, Green, Maynor).

D1JM
11-30-2010, 04:45 PM
We can easily afford it, the problem would be having enough money to pay everyone else (Ibaka, Harden, Green, Maynor).

isnt it till 2012 when westbrook is due a raise?

Baller1
11-30-2010, 04:58 PM
Yes, but I'm hoping we extend him early like we did Durant.

Raph12
11-30-2010, 05:15 PM
We can easily afford it, the problem would be having enough money to pay everyone else (Ibaka, Harden, Green, Maynor).

FA in 2012 right?... So he may join the class of Dwight, CP3, D-Will, Duncan, KG, Ray, etc...

HakeemTheDream
11-30-2010, 05:33 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101130/nba-awards-watch

How is Pau Gasol not in the top 10????

JordansBulls
11-30-2010, 05:36 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101130/nba-awards-watch

How is Pau Gasol not in the top 10????

Kinda ridiculous if you ask me especially when you have the best numbers on your team.

Westbrook has the best numbers on the Thunder and is higher on the MVP lists here and rightfully so. So why is Pau not higher on the MVP list when he has the best numbers on the Lakers?

Raph12
11-30-2010, 05:36 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101130/nba-awards-watch

How is Pau Gasol not in the top 10????

Superman leading the league on yet another analyst's MVP list! :superman:

HakeemTheDream
11-30-2010, 05:41 PM
Not only did Rondo miss 3 games, Garnett is the MVP of this team unless you have 0 appreciation and respect for defense. Even though Rondo is the best defensive pg in the league, you can't compare Rondo's defensive worth to Garnett's because it's not even close. Rondo gets steals, but Garnett literally shuts players down and guards the paint

HakeemTheDream
11-30-2010, 05:42 PM
Kinda ridiculous if you ask me especially when you have the best numbers on your team.

Westbrook has the best numbers on the Thunder and is higher on the MVP lists here and rightfully so. So why is Pau not higher on the MVP list when he has the best numbers on the Lakers?

Exactly.

Raph12
11-30-2010, 05:44 PM
Not only did Rondo miss 3 games, Garnett is the MVP of this team unless you have 0 appreciation and respect for defense. Even though Rondo is the best defensive pg in the league, you can't compare Rondo's defensive worth to Garnett's because it's not even close. Rondo gets steals, but Garnett literally shuts players down and guards the paint

CP3 is a better defensive PG, or so the Drtg, DWS and steal% would suggest... Rondo has been balling, but the Celts don't have a clear-cut MVP, sort of like the Spurs.

Furymaker
11-30-2010, 06:04 PM
i'm questioning that Rondo is the best defensive pg in league .
he has steals and rebounds , every little better pg in league put points on him just like that ?

kArSoN RyDaH
11-30-2010, 09:13 PM
MVP:
1. Dwight Howard
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Derrick Rose
5. Deron Williams
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chris Paul
8. Carmelo Anthony
9. Manu Ginobli
10. Kevin Garnett

DPOY:
1. Dwight Howard
2. Joakim Noah
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Josh Smith
5. Chris Paul

MIP:
1. Roy Hibbert
2. Eric Gordon
3. Kevin Love and Michael Beasley
4. Paul Millsap
5. Luis Scola

Coach of the Year:
1. Monty Williams, Hornets
2. Gregg Popovich, Spurs
3. Jerry Sloan, Jazz
4. Byron Scott, Cavaliers
5. Tom Thibodeau, Bulls and Jim O'Brien, Pacers

Rookie of the Year:
1. Blake Griffin
2. John Wall
3. Landry Fields
4. Eric Bledsoe
5. Derrick Favors

6th Man:
1. Jason Terry
2. Wilson Chandler
3. Shannon Brown
4. Charlie Villanueva
5. Jamal Crawford


LINK (http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101130/nba-awards-watch)

Kleonidas
11-30-2010, 09:14 PM
Looks about right...Change KG with Durant.

Raph12
11-30-2010, 09:16 PM
Dwight :superman: Howard flying up, up and away this season...

kArSoN RyDaH
11-30-2010, 09:20 PM
A little surprised about Westbrook being up above Dirk, Rose, and Kobe.

Chacarron
11-30-2010, 09:22 PM
A little surprised about Westbrook being up above Dirk, Rose, and Kobe.

Well Westbrook has been the main man in OKC so far and is doing a great job.

Htownballa1622
11-30-2010, 09:23 PM
Sounds pretty good... Shannon brown seems like he hoopin nicely this year. Id put him for sixth man or m.i.p

kArSoN RyDaH
11-30-2010, 09:25 PM
Well Westbrook has been the main man in OKC so far and is doing a great job.

True. He's put em on their back when KD is playing bad. I'm sure an argument can be made for those 3 to be ahead but I'm content with this list, except #10.

John Walls Era
11-30-2010, 10:05 PM
How is Andrea Bargnani not MIP?

ChiSox219
11-30-2010, 10:10 PM
How is Andrea Bargnani not MIP?

How is he even considered a candidate?

sargon21
11-30-2010, 10:11 PM
just because you have better efficiency doesn't make you BETTER, you have to take the team situation into account

cardinals1226
11-30-2010, 10:18 PM
How is Andrea Bargnani not MIP?

Because Roy Hibbert is averaging 4.5 more rebounds (2 more offensive, 2.4 more defensive), 1.7 more assists, shooting 4 percent higher from the field, 1.2 more blocks, and 0.2 less turnovers in 4 less minutes per game. Ya, Bargnani is really having a more superior year. He doesn't even deserve to be in the top 5. This is Hibbert, Love, or Scola's award.

*Superman*
11-30-2010, 10:21 PM
Finally. Dwight getting some love for MVP.

iCOOKiE MONSTER
11-30-2010, 10:22 PM
Sounds good,
But...
Where's Durant.?.?

Raph12
11-30-2010, 10:27 PM
So Dwight struggles offensively tonight with 9pts on only 4-8 shooting (1-2FTs)... They doubled on touch early and they stopped going to him.

On the other hand, he was a terror defensively, 14rbs, 3 stls and 2blks (should've been 5 but shotclock violations discounted them). I look for him to bounce back strong tomorrow against Chitown.

D1JM
11-30-2010, 10:30 PM
So Dwight struggles offensively tonight with 9pts on only 4-8 shooting (1-2FTs)... They doubled on touch early and they stopped going to him.

On the other hand, he was a terror defensively, 14rbs, 3 stls and 2blks (should've been 5 but shotclock violations discounted them). I look for him to bounce back strong tomorrow against Chitown.

his jumper still needs alot of work. It might get there in a year or two if he still keeps improving.

MacFitz92
11-30-2010, 10:37 PM
Well Westbrook has been the main man in OKC so far and is doing a great job.

Yeah except he shares that with Durant (for now).

Dirk is the man in Dallas.

tredigs
11-30-2010, 10:38 PM
his jumper still needs alot of work. It might get there in a year or two if he still keeps improving.

There was also the 0/6 assist/turnover ratio tonight...

I wish Dwight knew how to pass, it would make praising his slightly improved offensive game much easier.

Edit: I do actually think his jumper looks better, though. He's growing; Slowly but surely.

Mplsman
11-30-2010, 10:40 PM
Klove for MIP

xabial
11-30-2010, 10:44 PM
i think amare should be #10. You decide if im being a homer or Not.

John Walls Era
11-30-2010, 11:02 PM
Because Roy Hibbert is averaging 4.5 more rebounds (2 more offensive, 2.4 more defensive), 1.7 more assists, shooting 4 percent higher from the field, 1.2 more blocks, and 0.2 less turnovers in 4 less minutes per game. Ya, Bargnani is really having a more superior year. He doesn't even deserve to be in the top 5. This is Hibbert, Love, or Scola's award.

20 PPG is really easy to get right? Its Love's to lose.

Raph12
11-30-2010, 11:03 PM
There was also the 0/6 assist/turnover ratio tonight...

I wish Dwight knew how to pass, it would make praising his slightly improved offensive game much easier.

Edit: I do actually think his jumper looks better, though. He's growing; Slowly but surely.

His passing has improved, not by much but it is improved, 3 of the 6 turnovers were offensive fouls, one was a 3sec violation and he was stripped on the other two. He made some nice passes in the first half, but we missed a lot of shots early and then stopped going to Dwight after the first half (had 7pts in the first half and 2 in the second)... We missed a bunch of open shots today, as our open shots start falling, we'll start blowing teams out a lot more and Dwight's assist numbers will rise.

Baller1
11-30-2010, 11:19 PM
So Dwight struggles offensively tonight with 9pts on only 4-8 shooting (1-2FTs)... They doubled on touch early and they stopped going to him.

On the other hand, he was a terror defensively, 14rbs, 3 stls and 2blks (should've been 5 but shotclock violations discounted them). I look for him to bounce back strong tomorrow against Chitown.

Good, now Westbrook can move up to #1!

Baller1
11-30-2010, 11:21 PM
Love will win MIP. No doubt in my mind.

29$JerZ
11-30-2010, 11:23 PM
It's sad Fields won't win ROY because Blake/Wall are putting out great stats on losing teams. Man has been the biggest plus for NY in quite some time and he is ranked 3rd, amazing.

HeaTxRipZz
11-30-2010, 11:24 PM
love definitely deserves to win MIP

as far as every other award I think it's still up for grabs I want to see if Amare will be in MvP considerations if the team continues to improve

D1JM
11-30-2010, 11:40 PM
Good, now Westbrook can move up to #1!

Lol

cardinals1226
11-30-2010, 11:47 PM
20 PPG is really easy to get right? Its Love's to lose.

Not so much when you're the first option.

But it's funny you say it's Love's award now after whining that Bargnani is not a candidate for MIP. Besides, why would Love be the lock to win it? The only difference stat wise between Hibbert and Love is rebounds and Hibbert's 2.9 points per game less in 3 less minutes and two less games, while Love is the number one option and Hibbert isn't. Besides that, Hibbert has more blocks per game, more steals, more assists, a higher field goal percentage.

Silent
11-30-2010, 11:49 PM
Lol

x2

ChiSox219
11-30-2010, 11:52 PM
20 PPG is really easy to get right? Its Love's to lose.

Very easy, when you are averaging 17 shots a night.

sargon21
11-30-2010, 11:55 PM
barg is really the only scoring option for toronto...

asandhu23
12-01-2010, 12:05 AM
monta ellis. come on now

OG "Dee" LOCc
12-01-2010, 12:08 AM
landry fields a second round pick being considered for rookie of the year

lol tht old man pulled a fast one on the whole nba

cardinals1226
12-01-2010, 12:10 AM
monta ellis. come on now

Why? He is having a good year, but his numbers are right around his averages, one point or less from last year. It's not like he has just exploded out of nowhere. The top 5 guys on the candidacy, have raised all their numbers from last year dramatically.

Hiphopopotamus
12-01-2010, 12:11 AM
I want Fields to win ROY, man. I mean Griffin and Wall are just doing what people thought they would and they are doing it on bad teams, but if the knicks are in the playoffs and Fields keeps improving...that's a pretty compelling story.

As far as MVP goes the list is good, except for KG. I don't think he is even the C's MVP, but whatever. Anybody else surprised that CP3 isnt a little higher?

Da Knicks
12-01-2010, 12:20 AM
Wilson Chandler and Landry Fields in the mix baby! Wilson was great tonight and has being for most of the season, dude is finally getting some recognition!

John Walls Era
12-01-2010, 01:04 AM
Not so much when you're the first option.

But it's funny you say it's Love's award now after whining that Bargnani is not a candidate for MIP. Besides, why would Love be the lock to win it? The only difference stat wise between Hibbert and Love is rebounds and Hibbert's 2.9 points per game less in 3 less minutes and two less games, while Love is the number one option and Hibbert isn't. Besides that, Hibbert has more blocks per game, more steals, more assists, a higher field goal percentage.

Let me get this straight: I really should've said AB should be at least in the top 5.

cardinals1226
12-01-2010, 01:11 AM
Let me get this straight: I really should've said AB should be at least in the top 5.

What are you even talking about? I said Bargnani has no reason to be in the MIP discussion.

finalverse
12-01-2010, 01:29 AM
lol

John Walls Era
12-01-2010, 01:51 AM
What are you even talking about? I said Bargnani has no reason to be in the MIP discussion.

ok then you don't know what you're talking about. MIP, you need to talk about improvements. Anytime you become a 20ppg guy, you have improved big time. MIP isn't about comparing all the players with each other, like the biased attempted that you tried to do.

ChiSox219
12-01-2010, 02:04 AM
ok then you don't know what you're talking about. MIP, you need to talk about improvements. Anytime you become a 20ppg guy, you have improved big time. MIP isn't about comparing all the players with each other, like the biased attempted that you tried to do.

Bargnani's scoring efficiency is below his career average, his rebound rate is the lowest of his career. He is turning the ball over at the highest rate since his rookie season. His defense is still disastrous.

The only aspect Bargnani has improved is his ability to get to the FT line.

Bausman
12-01-2010, 02:06 AM
barg is really the only scoring option for toronto...

Ya... now that Reggie Evans broke his foot.

airforceones25
12-01-2010, 02:09 AM
Knicks fans. Landry Fields won't even receive a single vote come voting time. Quit dreaming. The kid is nice and deserves small praise however, there is no way in hell he comes close to winning the ROY award!

John Walls Era
12-01-2010, 02:20 AM
Bargnani's scoring efficiency is below his career average, his rebound rate is the lowest of his career. He is turning the ball over at the highest rate since his rookie season. His defense is still disastrous.

The only aspect Bargnani has improved is his ability to get to the FT line.

You must not have watched a single game (I don't blame you, Raptors are kinda boring). His man D is really not that bad. Anyones rebounding rate would be bad with Reggie "Get Every Rebound" Evans. He has also added more moves inside and can basically score from anywhere.

John Walls Era
12-01-2010, 02:20 AM
Knicks fans. Landry Fields won't even receive a single vote come voting time. Quit dreaming. The kid is nice and deserves small praise however, there is no way in hell he comes close to winning the ROY award!

He will get a few. Homer votes.

John Walls Era
12-01-2010, 02:21 AM
No Rajon Rondo... CAn't take this list seriously.

PrestigeWldWde
12-01-2010, 02:24 AM
Well Westbrook has been the main man in OKC so far and is doing a great job.

Westbrook 23.8 ppg, 8.6 apg, 3.89 turnovers/game
Rose 26.6 ppg, 8.2 apg, 3.71 turnovers/game

Westbrook will never be the main man as long as Kevin Durant is on that team. Rose has emerged as not only a playmaker, but a go-to player in crunch time. Not to mention he's been doing all of this with the Bulls 2nd best player (Boozer) injured. I think you would have to give Rose more credit and bump him up over Westbrook at this point of the season.

PrestigeWldWde
12-01-2010, 02:27 AM
Ya... now that Reggie Evans broke his foot.

:facepalm:I really hope you are kidding. Dan Gadzuric is a better offensive player than Reggie Evans.

ChiSox219
12-01-2010, 02:29 AM
You must not have watched a single game (I don't blame you, Raptors are kinda boring). His man D is really not that bad. Anyones rebounding rate would be bad with Reggie "Get Every Rebound" Evans. He has also added more moves inside and can basically score from anywhere.

I'm not so concerned with his man defense, he's a Center, you want him to make good rotations and play good help defense, which Bargnani still can't do.

But while we're on the subject of his man defense, Bargs has been outperformed thoroughly by opposing centers this year:

http://www.82games.com/1011/10TOR15.HTM#bypos





And again, Bargnani's scoring efficiency is down. So you can tout his 20ppg average, please recognize that he is taking more shots to score those points.

Here's a list of players that have averaged a similar amount of FGA and PPG since 1990:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=TMc69

John Walls Era
12-01-2010, 02:38 AM
I'm not so concerned with his man defense, he's a Center, you want him to make good rotations and play good help defense, which Bargnani still can't do.

But while we're on the subject of his man defense, Bargs has been outperformed thoroughly by opposing centers this year:

http://www.82games.com/1011/10TOR15.HTM#bypos





And again, Bargnani's scoring efficiency is down. So you can tout his 20ppg average, please recognize that he is taking more shots to score those points.

Here's a list of players that have averaged a similar amount of FGA and PPG since 1990:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=TMc69

Hes actually shooting better than his career avgs. But I'm also keeping in mind that its only been 1 month since hes been the go to guy.

ChiSox219
12-01-2010, 02:40 AM
Hes actually shooting better than his career avgs. But I'm also keeping in mind that its only been 1 month since hes been the go to guy.


And yet he is still scoring at a less efficient rate.

Raph12
12-01-2010, 02:50 AM
Good, now Westbrook can move up to #1!

Doubt they drop him for one bad offensive night lol...

D1JM
12-01-2010, 03:01 AM
Doubt they drop him for one bad offensive night lol...

they dropped rondo for not playing

Raph12
12-01-2010, 03:10 AM
they dropped rondo for not playing

When you're not playing you put up 0-0-0-0-0 on 0% shooting, not 9-14-1-3-2 on 4-8 shooting (which is higher than most of the other candidates FG% anyways)... Plus since the last MVP ranking, Dwight has put up 23-11-1-2-2 and 32-11-1-2 both resulting in wins.

One off-night (offensively, he was a beast on the defensive end as usual) can't warrant being dropped.

Baller1
12-01-2010, 04:18 AM
Westbrook 23.8 ppg, 8.6 apg, 3.89 turnovers/game
Rose 26.6 ppg, 8.2 apg, 3.71 turnovers/game

Westbrook will never be the main man as long as Kevin Durant is on that team. Rose has emerged as not only a playmaker, but a go-to player in crunch time. Not to mention he's been doing all of this with the Bulls 2nd best player (Boozer) injured. I think you would have to give Rose more credit and bump him up over Westbrook at this point of the season.

Three "per-game stats" is your argument? Nice try.

Baller1
12-01-2010, 04:28 AM
When you're not playing you put up 0-0-0-0-0 on 0% shooting, not 9-14-1-3-2 on 4-8 shooting (which is higher than most of the other candidates FG% anyways)... Plus since the last MVP ranking, Dwight has put up 23-11-1-2-2 and 32-11-1-2 both resulting in wins.

One off-night (offensively, he was a beast on the defensive end as usual) can't warrant being dropped.

I was definitely just messing with you, but one bad offensive night (especially in points, the almighty stat for the average fan) could result in a drop. But it mainly depends on the nights other top candidates such as Kobe, Westbrook, and Manu have.

metsbulls1025
12-01-2010, 04:33 AM
Three "per-game stats" is your argument? Nice try.

Career Advanced Stats


Derick Rose: Per - 22.7 - TS% - 52.6% - eFG% - 49% - ORtg - 107 - DRtg - 110

Russell Westbrook - Per - 17.6 - TS% - 49.9% - eFG% - 42.6% - ORtg - 104 - DRtg - 108


What else would you like? Derick Rose has to do it all while Westbrook has had a top 5 player on his team since he has been there.

Baller1
12-01-2010, 04:49 AM
Career Advanced Stats


Derick Rose: Per - 22.7 - TS% - 52.6% - eFG% - 49% - ORtg - 107 - DRtg - 110

Russell Westbrook - Per - 17.6 - TS% - 49.9% - eFG% - 42.6% - ORtg - 104 - DRtg - 108


What else would you like? Derick Rose has to do it all while Westbrook has had a top 5 player on his team since he has been there.

Funny how you fail to include the areas that Westbrook is superior. But regardless, this is about this season, and this season Westbrook is dominating all PG's not named Chris Paul.

Once again, nice try.

jimbobjarree
12-01-2010, 05:01 AM
sloan for COY, screw all other awards till that happens

metsbulls1025
12-01-2010, 05:13 AM
Funny how you fail to include the areas that Westbrook is superior. But regardless, this is about this season, and this season Westbrook is dominating all PG's not named Chris Paul.

Once again, nice try.

What would you like me to include for their careers?

Rose's Offensive Win Shares is 8.1 to Westbrooks 4.6

Rose's Win Shares is 12.7 to Westbrooks 10.7

Rose's Win Shares Per 48 is .095 to Westbrooks .083

Westbrook is a better re bounder and defender across the board. Also I don't care what 18 games from Westbrook and 14 games from Rose tells us right now. For 2 years at the end of the year Rose has been better by a land slide in most of the advanced stat categories.

Baller1
12-01-2010, 12:36 PM
What would you like me to include for their careers?

Rose's Offensive Win Shares is 8.1 to Westbrooks 4.6

Rose's Win Shares is 12.7 to Westbrooks 10.7

Rose's Win Shares Per 48 is .095 to Westbrooks .083

Westbrook is a better re bounder and defender across the board. Also I don't care what 18 games from Westbrook and 14 games from Rose tells us right now. For 2 years at the end of the year Rose has been better by a land slide in most of the advanced stat categories.

Actually, Rose has been better by a land slide in scoring statistics. I'm not doing this again, I've already proved Westbrook had a better year last season. No point in wasting my time proving another one you wrong.

Minimal
12-01-2010, 01:07 PM
OMG again homerish Bulls fans...They are everywhere!
Westbrook>Rose. Nuff said.

bovice163
12-01-2010, 01:53 PM
OMG again homerish Bulls fans...They are everywhere!
Westbrook>Rose. Nuff said.

coming from a bandwagon Heat fan :eyebrow:

Minimal
12-01-2010, 02:19 PM
coming from a bandwagon Heat fan :eyebrow:
What it got to do with this thread or you are trying to insult me?
I'm not a Heat fan, I'm Heat supporter, despite the fact I watched the Heat games the most last season and Miami being my favourite city in the world.
However I'm LeBron fan.
I'm not from USA, so I don't have a team to cheer for so I cheer for a player I like the most to watch. What's the point of watching basketball if it's not entertaining?
And what's bad about being a bandwagon fan?
Yes, I'm a bandwagoner and I'm happy.

bovice163
12-01-2010, 02:22 PM
What it got to do with this thread or you are trying to insult me?
I'm not a Heat fan, I'm Heat supporter, despite the fact I watched the Heat games the most last season and Miami being my favourite city in the world.
However I'm LeBron fan.
I'm not from USA, so I don't have a team to cheer for so I cheer for a player I like the most to watch. What's the point of watching basketball if it's not entertaining?
And what's bad about being a bandwagon fan?
Yes, I'm a bandwagoner, I'm happy and you are mad.

Nope not mad, just appalled as to why you get to bash the Bulls on this forum all day, and then when someone comes back and bashes you you get all defensive and argue this and that. Kind of ironic isn't it?

Minimal
12-01-2010, 02:27 PM
Nope not mad, just appalled as to why you get to bash the Bulls on this forum all day, and then when someone comes back and bashes you you get all defensive and argue this and that. Kind of ironic isn't it?
I don't bash. I state the facts.
Westbrook is better than Rose right now and the I think the only people who don't want to recognize that are Bulls fans.

bovice163
12-01-2010, 02:32 PM
I don't bash. I state the facts.
Westbrook is better than Rose right now and the I think the only people who don't want to recognize that are Bulls fans.

Don't make me look through your posts and find these 'facts' you're talking about. :laugh:

And never once did I disagree with you that Westbrook is playing better than Rose right now. Personally I think they are about equal, with Westy having the edge on defense. When both teams are completely healthy with their proper rotations, then we can really see who is more deserving of MVP. Westy is a player that can step it up when he needs to, and now that Durant has regressed a bit since last season, Westy took up the opportunity to showcase what he can do.

Raph12
12-01-2010, 02:46 PM
I was definitely just messing with you, but one bad offensive night (especially in points, the almighty stat for the average fan) could result in a drop. But it mainly depends on the nights other top candidates such as Kobe, Westbrook, and Manu have.

Seeming as how he put up 23, 32 and likely 23+ tonight, I doubt a 4-8 shooting night for 9pts will result in a drop, especially when considering that we won the game... Unless Westbrook or Kobe have a HUGE week.

k24springs
12-01-2010, 03:21 PM
At this point its gotta be D12 because its not about how much he scores it his PRESENCE alone. He does so much for that team guarding the paint, blocks shots, cleans the glass, great pick n roll defender, talks on defense. I like what he is doing offensively this season he looks more comfortable in the post not robotic and awkward looking he is more relaxed and poised. He is taking and making more shots away from the paint this season which is only going to make him hard to guard and he can set it up for drives to the basket.

Chris Paul is a very close second I mean who would of thought that the Hornets(when you look at their roster) would be 12-5 and battling the Spurs and the Mavericks in the Southwest Division race. I think that feat so for far is pretty impressive especially in the Western Conference. He sets up his teammates, plays pretty good defense, plays at his own pace, consistently breaks down defense, he is clearly the leader of that team.

My List
1. D12
2. CP3
3. Rose
4. Dirk
5. D.Will

finalverse
12-01-2010, 03:22 PM
I don't bash. I state the facts.
Westbrook is better than Rose right now and the I think the only people who don't want to recognize that are Bulls fans.Fact? lol, give me a break. It's opinion, that's what it is, that's what most of this is.

Here is my opinion on how you can tell Rose is better than Westbrook. Underdogs always feel the need to prove themselves to others. Think of it as a way to gain acceptance. My belief is that, Bulls fans rarely if ever come out the blue and say Rose is better than Westbrook, we don't need to say it. We believe it.

On the flip side Westbrook supporters constantly (this year more so than last) have this urge to bring it up every chance they get. It reminds me of a little kid who isn't getting attention and has to jump up and down screaming, "look at me, look at me" to gain acceptance from his/her peers. It's ridiculous, and it reminds me of last year when Bulls fans would intentionally have to prove why Rose is better than Rondo.

It was their way (I never did it) of trying to get that acceptance into the elite level. This year, we've backed off Rondo for the most part (it's not as heated as last year) and that has a lot to do with Rose taking that next step. This year it's the Westbrook supporters who are trying to force feed everyone into thinking the way they do. Just ride it out fella's. Westbrook is a good player. Next year, you guys will back off Rose because next year, in your hearts/minds you'll feel like you belong.

Baller1
12-01-2010, 03:32 PM
Fact? lol, give me a break. It's opinion, that's what it is, that's what most of this is.

Here is my opinion on how you can tell Rose is better than Westbrook. Underdogs always feel the need to prove themselves to others. Think of it as a way to gain acceptance. My belief is that, Bulls fans rarely if ever come out the blue and say Rose is better than Westbrook, we don't need to say it. We believe it.

On the flip side Westbrook supporters constantly (this year more so than last) have this urge to bring it up every chance they get. It reminds me of a little kid who isn't getting attention and has to jump up and down screaming, "look at me, look at me" to gain acceptance from his/her peers. It's ridiculous, and it reminds me of last year when Bulls fans would intentionally have to prove why Rose is better than Rondo.

It was their way (I never did it) of trying to get that acceptance into the elite level. This year, we've backed off Rondo for the most part (it's not as heated as last year) and that has a lot to do with Rose taking that next step. This year it's the Westbrook supporters who are trying to force feed everyone into thinking the way they do. Just ride it out fella's. Westbrook is a good player. Next year, you guys will back off Rose because next year, in your hearts/minds you'll feel like you belong.

"Force feeding" Westbrook to the elite level? I've had the same sig for a good year now; I've consistently provided facts and truth about Westbrook being the superior player since last season.; I've never once "force fed" Westbrook to the posters on this site, contrastingly I've simply backed up my argument with strong support.

Don't make false accusations.

finalverse
12-01-2010, 03:50 PM
ok lol

Bullsfan22
12-01-2010, 05:44 PM
Fact? lol, give me a break. It's opinion, that's what it is, that's what most of this is.

Here is my opinion on how you can tell Rose is better than Westbrook. Underdogs always feel the need to prove themselves to others. Think of it as a way to gain acceptance. My belief is that, Bulls fans rarely if ever come out the blue and say Rose is better than Westbrook, we don't need to say it. We believe it.

On the flip side Westbrook supporters constantly (this year more so than last) have this urge to bring it up every chance they get. It reminds me of a little kid who isn't getting attention and has to jump up and down screaming, "look at me, look at me" to gain acceptance from his/her peers. It's ridiculous, and it reminds me of last year when Bulls fans would intentionally have to prove why Rose is better than Rondo.

It was their way (I never did it) of trying to get that acceptance into the elite level. This year, we've backed off Rondo for the most part (it's not as heated as last year) and that has a lot to do with Rose taking that next step. This year it's the Westbrook supporters who are trying to force feed everyone into thinking the way they do. Just ride it out fella's. Westbrook is a good player. Next year, you guys will back off Rose because next year, in your hearts/minds you'll feel like you belong.


:clap: Agreed 100% They feel the need to hype him up every chance they get which is fine but gets OLD and CHILDISH when your constantly comparing him to one certain player (Rose).

Baller1
12-01-2010, 06:06 PM
[/B]

:clap: Agreed 100% They feel the need to hype him up every chance they get which is fine but gets OLD and CHILDISH when your constantly comparing him to one certain player (Rose).

Irony at it's finest.

DaBUU
12-01-2010, 06:12 PM
deleted

Bullsfan22
12-01-2010, 06:17 PM
Irony at it's finest.

speaking of the devil.

Bullsfan22
12-01-2010, 06:19 PM
well this may strengthen his case. But see, the NBA must be Bulls homers too...



http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/12/derrick-rose-named-player-of-the-month.html

:laugh2:

Doogolas
12-01-2010, 06:28 PM
Actually, Rose has been better by a land slide in scoring statistics. I'm not doing this again, I've already proved Westbrook had a better year last season. No point in wasting my time proving another one you wrong.

Last season Westbrook was ***. This year he's been a stud. But he was absolutely not very good last year. His ts% last year was .491, do you know how inefficient that is? That's more inefficient than Rip Hamilton has been this year. And he's been awful.

Westbrook wasn't even good last year, let alone better than Rose.

However, he's been absolutely outstanding so far this year. And arguably as good or better than Rose.

Baller1
12-01-2010, 06:39 PM
Last season Westbrook was ***. This year he's been a stud. But he was absolutely not very good last year. His ts% last year was .491, do you know how inefficient that is? That's more inefficient than Rip Hamilton has been this year. And he's been awful.

Westbrook wasn't even good last year, let alone better than Rose.

However, he's been absolutely outstanding so far this year. And arguably as good or better than Rose.

Hmmm... Well it's a good thing scoring isn't the only thing in basketball huh? But I guess it's fair to say Westbrook wasn't good, if we're disregarding passing, rebounding, and defense of course.

finalverse
12-01-2010, 06:45 PM
I can imagine that if Rose was ahead in every single stat that some folks will come in and be like "yeah but how is his FT% when shooting blind folded and with both hands tied behind his back?". Anyways, woohoo for Bulls player of the month. He put up good stats.

dtmagnet
12-01-2010, 08:01 PM
[/B]

:clap: Agreed 100% They feel the need to hype him up every chance they get which is fine but gets OLD and CHILDISH when your constantly comparing him to one certain player (Rose).

Right, and Bulls fans NEVER EVER do that with Rose right?

PrestigeWldWde
12-01-2010, 09:02 PM
Hmmm... Well it's a good thing scoring isn't the only thing in basketball huh? But I guess it's fair to say Westbrook wasn't good, if we're disregarding passing, rebounding, and defense of course.

Yet another idiotic statement by one of the worst knowledgable posters on this site.
Westbrook isn't even the best player on his team. He couldn't handle being the go-to-guy.

Baller1
12-01-2010, 09:53 PM
Yet another idiotic statement by one of the worst knowledgable posters on this site.
Westbrook isn't even the best player on his team. He couldn't handle being the go-to-guy.

One thing Bulls fans have down is irony, that's for sure. So Westbrook's near triple double right now without Durant is just luck right?

ManRam
12-02-2010, 12:23 AM
I know I'm going to be in the minority, but with the heat about to snatch up the third best record in the east (it's gonna happen very soon) and with lebron being the most consistent and frankly best player on that team, I think he's gotta crack the top ten. He's got the numbers. :shrug:

Any other player on just about any other top 4 conference team with his numbers would be a top 10 candidate. But he's not and those expectations will cripple him.

Rose plummets after tonight. He sucked hard on both ends of the court verse a team they very well may just have to best in a series this year

JordansBulls
12-02-2010, 12:55 AM
Bulls just didn't bring it. Might have been better without Boozer tonight.

Cubs Win
12-02-2010, 02:13 AM
One thing Bulls fans have down is irony, that's for sure. So Westbrook's near triple double right now without Durant is just luck right?

38 points on 32 shots isn't THAT impressive, especially considering his 14 FT attempts.

I didn't watch the game, but personally I like the game Jeff Green played more looking at the box score. 37 points on 21 shots and no turnovers despite playing 54 minutes, and 4-5 from downtown! I've always liked his game, it's just difficult for him to put up better numbers because of the other players on the Thunder and how they have run their offense.

Obviously I'm not saying Jeff Green is in the MVP race, it's just my take on their performances tonight.

Kenny
12-02-2010, 02:22 AM
38 points on 32 shots isn't THAT impressive, especially considering his 14 FT attempts.

I didn't watch the game, but personally I like the game Jeff Green played more looking at the box score. 37 points on 21 shots and no turnovers despite playing 54 minutes, and 4-5 from downtown! I've always liked his game, it's just difficult for him to put up better numbers because of the other players on the Thunder and how they have run their offense.

Obviously I'm not saying Jeff Green is in the MVP race, it's just my take on their performances tonight.

I had like 19 or something in the overtimes. In the last overtime when they were losing by I believe 4 he hit like 4 consecutive shots.

Cubs Win
12-02-2010, 02:23 AM
I had like 19 or something in the overtimes. In the last overtime when they were losing by I believe 4 he hit like 4 consecutive shots.

Is that you Russell Westbrook? :laugh:

Anyways, that certainly is great then. I was just looking from a box score prespective, so the game as a whole. Not just the OTs.

Raph12
12-02-2010, 02:49 AM
Bulls just didn't bring it. Might have been better without Boozer tonight.

Too focused on Dwight, Noah got 0rbs because he didn't leave Dwight's side all game while Howard pounded him on the boards... Anyways good luck to you guys moving forward.

I still got Dwight as the MVP, 22ppg-12rpg-1.5apg-1spg-2.5bpg on 60FG% on the 2nd best team in the league... Westbrook's been beasting, should have secured 2nd place IMO; Dirk, CP3 and D-Will round out my top 5.

Baller1
12-02-2010, 03:06 AM
38 points on 32 shots isn't THAT impressive, especially considering his 14 FT attempts.

I didn't watch the game, but personally I like the game Jeff Green played more looking at the box score. 37 points on 21 shots and no turnovers despite playing 54 minutes, and 4-5 from downtown! I've always liked his game, it's just difficult for him to put up better numbers because of the other players on the Thunder and how they have run their offense.

Obviously I'm not saying Jeff Green is in the MVP race, it's just my take on their performances tonight.

Yeah, he started the game shooting poorly, so that's where the rebounds and assists came in. He couldn't hit anything so he was trying to win doing other things. He started out 5-17 or something like that.

But you're right, Jeff Green is going to get overlooked once again despite playing probably the best game of his career. He led us to the overtimes, and Westbrook took it from there. That's basically the summary of the game in short.

Baller1
12-02-2010, 03:07 AM
Too focused on Dwight, Noah got 0rbs because he didn't leave Dwight's side all game while Howard pounded him on the boards... Anyways good luck to you guys moving forward.

I still got Dwight as the MVP, 22ppg-12rpg-1.5apg-1spg-2.5bpg on 60FG% on the 2nd best team in the league... Westbrook's been beasting, should have secured 2nd place IMO; Dirk, CP3 and D-Will round out my top 5.

Westbrook is of course my #1, with Dwight #2. Then D-Will, CP3, and Manu following.

SEATTLEredsox
12-02-2010, 03:34 AM
Westbrook killed it in OT tonight... I heard on ESPN that his 13 points in the third overtime were the third most ever in a single overtime period. He was so close to the triple double, too. He got Thabo two wide open looks and one for Ibaka in overtime but they couldn't hit them.

Raph12
12-02-2010, 04:08 AM
Westbrook is of course my #1, with Dwight #2. Then D-Will, CP3, and Manu following.

Manu over Dirk? Really?... If there is one thing about the Spurs this season, it's that they truly don't have just one MVP.

Btw your boy Westy has been straight up ballin, cmon KD pick it up already. :D

Baller1
12-02-2010, 04:12 AM
Manu over Dirk? Really?... If there is one thing about the Spurs this season, it's that they truly don't have just one MVP.

Btw your boy Westy has been straight up ballin, cmon KD pick it up already. :D

Yeah, to me Manu has been taking full advantage of his starting spot.

I think it's a conspiracy; Durant is sitting out on purpose to allow Westbrook to get his rep up, then they're going to go out there together and destroy everyone.

Raph12
12-02-2010, 04:26 AM
Yeah, to me Manu has been taking full advantage of his starting spot.

I think it's a conspiracy; Durant is sitting out on purpose to allow Westbrook to get his rep up, then they're going to go out there together and destroy everyone.

But to crown Manu by putting him in the Top 5 for MVP would be ignorant; Parker, Duncan, Jefferson, Hill, Blair, Bonner, etc all need to be recognized as their contributions are just as necessary for the Spurs to win they way they've been winning. Remove any of those guys and they get considerably worse, therefore I suggest none of them being included in MVP talks... Just my opinion.

And hey as long as they do it together, that way they can cancel one another out of the MVP race. :D

tredigs
12-02-2010, 08:49 PM
But to crown Manu by putting him in the Top 5 for MVP would be ignorant; Parker, Duncan, Jefferson, Hill, Blair, Bonner, etc all need to be recognized as their contributions are just as necessary for the Spurs to win they way they've been winning. Remove any of those guys and they get considerably worse, therefore I suggest none of them being included in MVP talks... Just my opinion.

And hey as long as they do it together, that way they can cancel one another out of the MVP race. :D

Just because you can remove a key cog from a team and it makes them significantly worse doesn't necessarily discount who their best player has been, especially if he's been as good as anyone else in the league (Manu, in this case). Without Pau or Kobe, the team is significantly worse. Without KD or Westbrook, team is significantly worse. Taking it back further... without Pippen, Jordan's Bulls are significantly worse. Without Kobe, Shaq's Lakers are significantly worse. Without John Stockton, same story. For as many Lebron's out there to win the MVP award, there's as many Bird/Magic's who played right alongside top 50 HOFers.

I understand your point, and as much as you wish it did (due to Dwight being such a necessity to their success), history shows that it has very little bearing on an MVP race.

Raph12
12-02-2010, 11:24 PM
Just because you can remove a key cog from a team and it makes them significantly worse doesn't necessarily discount who their best player has been, especially if he's been as good as anyone else in the league (Manu, in this case). Without Pau or Kobe, the team is significantly worse. Without KD or Westbrook, team is significantly worse. Taking it back further... without Pippen, Jordan's Bulls are significantly worse. Without Kobe, Shaq's Lakers are significantly worse. Without John Stockton, same story. For as many Lebron's out there to win the MVP award, there's as many Bird/Magic's who played right alongside top 50 HOFers.

I understand your point, and as much as you wish it did (due to Dwight being such a necessity to their success), history shows that it has very little bearing on an MVP race.

We're talking about Manu right?... So where did Dwight come from?

Anyways, Manu may be playing the best ball than any of the other Spurs, but I think Timmy is still more valuable to the team than he is, with Tony right there with Manu. If we're doing "best player on best team" then yes, Manu should be up there.

tredigs
12-02-2010, 11:40 PM
We're talking about Manu right?... So where did Dwight come from?

Anyways, Manu may be playing the best ball than any of the other Spurs, but I think Timmy is still more valuable to the team than he is, with Tony right there with Manu. If we're doing "best player on best team" then yes, Manu should be up there.

I actually don't know that Timmy is at this point. Manu's the guy they go to late in games, he's their top scorer while playing great wing D, and a major facilitator offensively to boot. The guy can get to the line (and hit at 90%), lace threes (leading the league in 3's per game, and doing it at a ~40% clip). He's their best player, their most reliable player, and their most important at this point.

Dwight was brought up because you regularly reference other top MVP challengers having other strong weapons or MVP candidates on their team, and allude that this is a detraction to their chances at winning it (C'mon Raph - we both know the reason you do this is because Orlando has a clear #1), and I just wanted to prove the point that it has virtually no bearing on who wins it.

Raph12
12-03-2010, 12:08 AM
I actually don't know that Timmy is at this point. Manu's the guy they go to late in games, he's their top scorer while playing great wing D, and a major facilitator offensively to boot. The guy can get to the line (and hit at 90%), lace threes (leading the league in 3's per game, and doing it at a ~40% clip). He's their best player, their most reliable player, and their most important at this point.

Dwight was brought up because you regularly reference other top MVP challengers having other strong weapons or MVP candidates on their team, and allude that this is a detraction to their chances at winning it (C'mon Raph - we both know the reason you do this is because Orlando has a clear #1), and I just wanted to prove the point that it has virtually no bearing on who wins it.

Manu's definitely playing better and more efficiently than the others, but Timmy and Parker are just as necessary. Timmy's rebounding, defense, post presence is unparallel on that team, while Parker's facilitating, playmaking, getting into the lanes, breaking down the defense, etc... The intangibles are what makes Timmy and Parker just as valuable as Manu, each play a very significant role and to mention one over the other is ignorant in my personal opinion.

I know, I like to point that out so others take notice and consider it when thinking about who should win it. If player A is so valuable to his team (with that team leading the conference, 2nd in the league), doesn't that make him more valuable than player B who is putting up great stats with a second option of the same caliber?

tredigs
12-03-2010, 12:42 AM
Manu's definitely playing better and more efficiently than the others, but Timmy and Parker are just as necessary. Timmy's rebounding, defense, post presence is unparallel on that team, while Parker's facilitating, playmaking, getting into the lanes, breaking down the defense, etc... The intangibles are what makes Timmy and Parker just as valuable as Manu, each play a very significant role and to mention one over the other is ignorant in my personal opinion.

I know, I like to point that out so others take notice and consider it when thinking about who should win it. If player A is so valuable to his team (with that team leading the conference, 2nd in the league), doesn't that make him more valuable than player B who is putting up great stats with a second option of the same caliber?

Basically, what I see from this is that you're counting on the voters to take the angle that the MVP is the most necessary piece to a top ~5 team in the league. That's a fine take, and by that definition he'd have a great chance to win it.

But to many/most others, it's just simply the best player in the league on a top ~5 team. And IMO, that's the right way to look at it. It's not other players fault that their team is built stronger and with better players than another, and that's the reason why they aren't penalized for it by the vast majority of voters.

^So no, I don't exactly agree with your point on Dwight. I also don't agree that TP or Duncan (as great as they are, and especially as great as TP is playing) are quite on the same level of Manu this season. I think Manu's doing literally everything they could ask for + more from a shooting guard (playing better than any other SG in the game right now imo) and you can't say the same for TP or Duncan in relation to their peers. Just watching their games, it's patently obvious to even the most casual observer who is running the show there.

Raph12
12-03-2010, 01:33 AM
Basically, what I see from this is that you're counting on the voters to take the angle that the MVP is the most necessary piece to a top ~5 team in the league. That's a fine take, and by that definition he'd have a great chance to win it.

But to many/most others, it's just simply the best player in the league on a top ~5 team. And IMO, that's the right way to look at it. It's not other players fault that their team is built stronger and with better players than another, and that's the reason why they aren't penalized for it by the vast majority of voters.

^So no, I don't exactly agree with your point on Dwight. I also don't agree that TP or Duncan (as great as they are, and especially as great as TP is playing) are quite on the same level of Manu this season. I think Manu's doing literally everything they could ask for + more from a shooting guard (playing better than any other SG in the game right now imo) and you can't say the same for TP or Duncan in relation to their peers. Just watching their games, it's patently obvious to even the most casual observer who is running the show there.

My definition of "Most Valuable Player" is the player who's most valuable to their team, so I don't know if the voters would interpret that differently but w/e.

If Orlando finishes atop the East and Dwight keeps up at 22-23ppg 12-13rpg 2-3bpg, I'm pretty sure he'll win it regardless unless the Hornets finish Top 3 out West.

We can agree to disagree about the Spurs situation.

JordansBulls
12-03-2010, 09:45 AM
Too focused on Dwight, Noah got 0rbs because he didn't leave Dwight's side all game while Howard pounded him on the boards... Anyways good luck to you guys moving forward.

I still got Dwight as the MVP, 22ppg-12rpg-1.5apg-1spg-2.5bpg on 60FG% on the 2nd best team in the league... Westbrook's been beasting, should have secured 2nd place IMO; Dirk, CP3 and D-Will round out my top 5.

Yes I believe Dwight is the MVP at this point as well.

finalverse
12-03-2010, 10:05 AM
They somewhat contained Howard but Vince and Nelson went off.