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Sixerlover
11-26-2010, 01:21 AM
This is a better comparison than the 2010 draft being that we've seen these players for almost 3 years now.

Top 10
Chicago - Derrick Rose
Miami - Michael Beasley
Minnesota - OJ Mayo
Seattle (OKC) - Russell Westbrook
Memphis - Kevin Love
New York - Danilo Gallinari
LA Clippers - Eric Gordon
Milwaukee - Joe Alexander
Charlotte - DJ Augustin
New Jersey - Brook Lopez

MY TOP 10 - I guess I'll just do what they've shown thus far not team needs
Chicago - Derrick Rose
Miami - Russell Westbrook
Minnesota - Brook Lopez
Seattle (OKC) - Kevin Love
Memphis - OJ Mayo
New York - JJ Hickson
LA Clippers - Mike Beasley
Milwaukee - Eric Gordon
Charlotte - Roy Hibbert
New Jersey - Robin Lopez

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-26-2010, 01:24 AM
I have a feeling this might turn into another Rose bashing thread. But I agree with you on everything besides Brook Lopez at 3. He got picked right where he should have except over Joe Alexander and Augustine. Dude is overrated than a mutha****er.

Iodine
11-26-2010, 01:25 AM
No Gallo, but you have Hickson?

sargon21
11-26-2010, 01:25 AM
eric gordon should be higher, and brook lopez lower

abe_froman
11-26-2010, 01:27 AM
minny seems to love love alot and see no reason why they'd want to switch him for lopez

29$JerZ
11-26-2010, 01:27 AM
Chicago - Derrick Rose
Miami - Brook Lopez (Needed a C, still do)
Minnesota -OJ Mayo (Still ends up with Love)
Seattle - Russell Westbrook (why change it?)
Memphis - Kevin Love (turns into OJ Mayo)
NY - Danilo Gallinari (best fit here for us)
Clippers - Eric Gordon
Milwaukee - Michael Beasly
Charlotte - Roy Hibbert
New Jersey - Javale McGee


I honestly cannot believe you think Hickson is a better fit in NY than Gallo :laugh:

JordansBulls
11-26-2010, 01:29 AM
MY TOP 10

Chicago - Derrick Rose
Miami - Brook Lopez
Minnesota - Kevin Love
Seattle (OKC) - Russell Westbrook
Memphis - OJ Mayo
New York - JJ Hickson
LA Clippers - Mike Beasley
Milwaukee - Eric Gordon
Charlotte - Roy Hibbert
New Jersey - Robin Lopez

Sixerlover
11-26-2010, 01:35 AM
I honestly cannot believe you think Hickson is a better fit in NY than Gallo :laugh:



MY TOP 10 - I guess I'll just do what they've shown thus far not team needs




:shrug:

I like what Hickson has shown in his first 3 years more than what Gallo has shown. Can that change? Of course.

goblazers7
11-26-2010, 01:41 AM
Ya

airforceones25
11-26-2010, 01:45 AM
Clips keep Gordon at 7 if available over Beasley. Beasley had a breakout week now all the sudden he's an all star on these forums lol. He's nice but I'll keep EJ

xabial
11-26-2010, 01:46 AM
Why does everybody keep saying NY Needs JJ. :laugh2:
NY Doesnt Need JJ Hickson.... LOL. he wouldnt fit our coaching style. Doesnt Rebound Well, doesnt block well, and that would be too high for him (#6)...

Gallinari's a much better fit For NY, and a better fit considering Coaching Style (Run N' Gun, 7 Seconds Or Less)

chonbon
11-26-2010, 11:39 AM
roy hibbert= not top 10... sorry

Rafer17
11-26-2010, 11:44 AM
Wow, 2008 was a solid draft class. Everyone in the top 10 (except joe alexander) are playing well.

kozelkid
11-26-2010, 07:44 PM
Chicago - Derrick Rose (no explanation needed)
Miami - Eric Gordon (for the record I think Westbrook is better, but Gordon would have been a perfect fit alongside Wade)
Minnesota - Russell Westbrook (this based on my opinion cause McHale would have taken Love and as good of a rebounder as Love is, his defense is still poor. Westbrook has been playing like a top 15 (hell top 10) player in the league this season)
Seattle (OKC) - Kevin Love (brings rebounding that OKC very much needs)
Memphis - OJ Mayo (Maybe if Memphis wasn't inept, they wouldn't have overpaid Gay and Mayo would be utilized far better than he currently is)
New York - Michael Beasley (He has been playing very well. He still needs to get far more efficient, but he would have brought so much excitement. And I am convinced that with better coaching he can become a star player with an all around game)
LA Clippers - Danillo Gallinari (Boy would he look good filling that sf hole that Clippers have)
Milwaukee - Brook Lopez (Yes, I'm aware that they already have Bogut, but I do think Lopez is mobile enough to play pf, and with Bogut, his lack of toughness and poor rebounding wouldn't be exposed as much and Skiles would whip to shape. Also, he could play the high post and spread the floor with his mid range game. In fact him and Bogut could be very similar to LA's Bynum and Gasol. I think Lopez is very overrated and for that reason he dropped on my draft after having a good rookie season. He has shown last season and this season that at best he's a 2nd option. Possibly third.)
Charlotte - Roy Hibbert (The guy has been beasting and would be perfect for Char. Looks like a steal to me since he went 17th.)
New Jersey - Serge Ibaka (Brings good defense, rebounding to a team that had an awful frontcourt at the time and still kinda does. I thought this guy could be a poorer version of Shawn Kemp since draft time and would be a steal. My opinion hasn't changed since.)

Hustla23
11-26-2010, 08:45 PM
Gallo is the most efficient player out of that whole draft class and a top 5 efficient player in the entire NBA right now and yet some people leave him out of the top ****ing 10.

Whatever. Sometimes I wonder what benefit I can get by coming into this IQ-less forum.

dolfan720
11-26-2010, 09:03 PM
Chicago - Derrick Rose
Miami - Brook Lopez (Needed a C, still do)
Minnesota -OJ Mayo (Still ends up with Love)
Seattle - Russell Westbrook (why change it?)
Memphis - Kevin Love (turns into OJ Mayo)
NY - Danilo Gallinari (best fit here for us)
Clippers - Eric Gordon
Milwaukee - Michael Beasly
Charlotte - Roy Hibbert
New Jersey - Javale McGee


I honestly cannot believe you think Hickson is a better fit in NY than Gallo :laugh:

i know what a joke

THE MTL
11-27-2010, 12:28 AM
1. Chicago - Derrick Rose (amazing)

2. Miami - Brook Lopez (Solid stats and ppl fail to realize how bad his team is)

3. Minnesota - Russel Westbrook (need PG)

4. Seattle (OKC) - Kevin Love (need big man)

5. Memphis - Eric Gordon (need SG averages 24ppg and is always improving)

6. New York - OJ Mayo (need an SG...however Mayo is regressing this year)

7. LA Clippers - Danilo Gallinari (need SF and still shown more than those under)

8. Milwaukee - Michael Beasley (16 games this season compared 2 other seasons)

9. Charlotte - Roy Hibbert (needs center and is beasting this yr)

10. New Jersey - Serge Ibaka (better than Javal McGee)

goose15
11-27-2010, 12:45 AM
I would take Gallinari over Hickson... easy

THE MTL
11-27-2010, 01:14 AM
I would take Gallinari over Hickson... easy

Hickson is VASTLY OVERRATED!!!! He gets ample time and opportunity now that Lebron is gone....and he hasnt shown anything special. Hickson isnt even Top 10 in that class

what54!?
11-27-2010, 01:23 AM
1)bulls. Rose : thats a given
2)heat. Lopez: The Center the heat needed. (still do) low post game would would help 3)
this team
3) wolves: Mayo: still would end up on memphis though
4) OKC: westbrook: no need to change it
5) wolves: love (read mayo)
6) New York: Michael beasley: they would have taken him here. He would have had a much better start to his career and NY fans would be dubbing him a star
7) Clippers Gordon (best player still around)
8) Bucks: Gallo: with his three point shooting he would have been a much better fit here than alexander
9) Bobcats: Hibbert. (solid center. Shotblocker)
10) New jersey: JaVale Mcgee. (based off potential, works hard)

Baller1
11-27-2010, 01:25 AM
Come on guys, do you honestly believe Westbrook would fall to #4 still? Let's be real.

But yeah, I'd keep Rose at #1.

NYtilIdie
11-27-2010, 01:30 AM
1. Chicago - Derrick Rose (pretty self-explainatory)

2. Miami - Brook Lopez (MIA need him right now badly)

3. Minnesota - Russel Westbrook (need PG)

4. Seattle (OKC) - Kevin Love (this is the big man they're lacking)

5. Memphis - OJ Mayo (I feel he's a good fit here and could actually succeed in the 6th man role there)

6. New York - Eric Gordon (need an SG and is having a fantastic year)

7. LA Clippers - Danilo Gallinari (gives the LAC that 3pt threat.)

8. Milwaukee - Michael Beasley (take over Redd's spot)

9. Charlotte - Mcgee (great, athletic, shot blocker and rebounder that will do all the dirty work)

10. New Jersey - Serge Ibaka (fill in the hole that Lopez would leave)

chicago lulz
11-27-2010, 01:31 AM
Come on baller101200, would you honestly want Westbrook on another team and not be able to have 1/3 of your sig?

it really is hard to speculate a re-draft unless you're going based off of stats, rather than needs. Although, if you gonna re-do, I would get Westbrook at 2 or 3. Above Mayo for sure. I'd like to see how Beasley does this year, since the past two years don't really count in my mind.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2010, 02:12 AM
Gallo is the most efficient player out of that whole draft class and a top 5 efficient player in the entire NBA right now and yet some people leave him out of the top ****ing 10.

Whatever. Sometimes I wonder what benefit I can get by coming into this IQ-less forum.

:facepalm: that has to be one of the worst posts ive ever seen on this forum. wow

Hustla23
11-27-2010, 11:00 AM
:facepalm: that has to be one of the worst posts ive ever seen on this forum. wow
Offensive Rating
1. Tyson Chandler-DAL 141.6
2. Amir Johnson-TOR 133.1
3. Al Horford-ATL 130.9
4. Pau Gasol-LAL 129.6
5. Serge Ibaka-OKC 128.8
6. Danilo Gallinari-NYK 127.5

Offensive Win Shares
1. Pau Gasol-LAL 2.6
2. Chris Paul-NOH 2.1
3. Al Horford-ATL 2.1
4. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 1.9
5. Paul Millsap-UTA 1.9
6. Manu Ginobili-SAS 1.8
7. Deron Williams-UTA 1.8
8. Russell Westbrook-OKC 1.7
9. Danilo Gallinari-NYK 1.7

Not exactly Top 5 but pretty damn close. Also, once again, more efficient than anyone in the draft class.

Learn to come up with any sort of evidence when you try to refute something someone has said and not just straight up make a fool out of yourself.

Minimal
11-27-2010, 11:21 AM
Overall Top 10 (Without team needs)

Chicago Bulls - Russell Westbrook
Miami Heat - Derrick Rose
Minnesotta Wolves - Kevin Love
Seattle Sonics - Brook Lopez
Memphis Grizzlies - Eric Gordon
New York Knicks - Michael Beasley
Los Angleles Clippers - OJ Mayo
Milwaukee Bucks - JJ Hickson
Charlotte Bobcats - Roy Hibbert
New Jersey Nets - Nicolas Batum

Khalifa21
11-27-2010, 11:34 AM
Chicago - Derrick Rose
Miami - Brook Lopez
Minnesota - Russell Westbrook
Seattle (OKC) - Kevin Love
Memphis - OJ Mayo
New York - Eric Gordon
LA Clippers - Mike Beasley
Milwaukee - Danilo Gallinari
Charlotte - Roy Hibbert
New Jersey - JJ Hickson

97NYer
11-27-2010, 11:41 AM
1.Rose
2.Westbrook
3.Love
4.Lopez
5.Beasley
6.Gordon
7.Gallo
8.Gordon
9.Hibbert
10.Augustin

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 11:47 AM
Offensive Rating
1. Tyson Chandler-DAL 141.6
2. Amir Johnson-TOR 133.1
3. Al Horford-ATL 130.9
4. Pau Gasol-LAL 129.6
5. Serge Ibaka-OKC 128.8
6. Danilo Gallinari-NYK 127.5

Offensive Win Shares
1. Pau Gasol-LAL 2.6
2. Chris Paul-NOH 2.1
3. Al Horford-ATL 2.1
4. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 1.9
5. Paul Millsap-UTA 1.9
6. Manu Ginobili-SAS 1.8
7. Deron Williams-UTA 1.8
8. Russell Westbrook-OKC 1.7
9. Danilo Gallinari-NYK 1.7

Not exactly Top 5 but pretty damn close. Also, once again, more efficient than anyone in the draft class.

Learn to come up with any sort of evidence when you try to refute something someone has said and not just straight up make a fool out of yourself.

cmon man. You picked a couple advanced stats to show your boy. I could do the same with Love. In that draft, Gallo was not worthy of a top 4 pick.
Rose
Westbrook
Love
Lopez

in no particular order are all better. I would even venture to say Hibbert is #5. 7'2" and becoming a very good defensive center while going for 15/9, and we all know huge dudes take a while to come around

Gallo will have a nice career, and carve a niche as a great shooter who can score points. But what else?

Hustla23
11-27-2010, 11:56 AM
cmon man. You picked a couple advanced stats to show your boy. I could do the same with Love. In that draft, Gallo was not worthy of a top 4 pick.
Rose
Westbrook
Love
Lopez

in no particular order are all better. I would even venture to say Hibbert is #5. 7'2" and becoming a very good defensive center while going for 15/9, and we all know huge dudes take a while to come around

Gallo will have a nice career, and carve a niche as a great shooter who can score points. But what else?
Come on dude. I think you know that offensive rating and offensive win shares are the stats that are most indicative of offensive player efficiency. They are formulated very nicely in terms of assessing proper linear weights and other stats are very flawed in comparison. So they're not just "a couple of advanced stats." They're the most indicative ones.

I'd like to see how you could do the same with Love.

And Love just happens to be a rebounder. What else? Please don't make such shortsighted comments.

CHANGO
11-27-2010, 11:58 AM
Chicago - Derrick Rose
Miami - Russell Westbrook
Minnesota - Kevin Love
Seattle (OKC) - Michael Beasley
Memphis - OJ Mayo
New York - Eric Gordon
LA Clippers - Brook Lopez
Milwaukee - Danilo Gallinari
Charlotte - Roy Hibbert
New Jersey - J.J Hickson

HT9Canada
11-27-2010, 12:12 PM
Gallo is the most efficient player out of that whole draft class and a top 5 efficient player in the entire NBA right now and yet some people leave him out of the top ****ing 10.

Whatever. Sometimes I wonder what benefit I can get by coming into this IQ-less forum.

KLove is first in rebounding.
Javale McGee is 2nd in blocks.

yet neither of those deserve to be first.

and get your facts right, gallo isnt even in the top 50 in efficiency.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2010, 12:25 PM
Come on dude. I think you know that offensive rating and offensive win shares are the stats that are most indicative of offensive player efficiency. They are formulated very nicely in terms of assessing proper linear weights and other stats are very flawed in comparison. So they're not just "a couple of advanced stats." They're the most indicative ones.

I'd like to see how you could do the same with Love.

And Love just happens to be a rebounder. What else? Please don't make such shortsighted comments.

So I guess in your book Gallo is number 1 overall? Please if you werent a Knick fan you wouldnt say that.

This is a fair one

1. Rose
2. Westbrook
3 Lopez
4. Love
5. Beasley
6. Mayo
7. Gordon
8. Gallo
9. Gibbert
10. Hickson

Gallo is in a system where he shoots 3s this is basically his 2nd year in the league since in the 08-09 season he wasnt played. He can hit 3s and is good with the pump fakes but hes number 8 in my book if yo lok at this list id pick all those before him.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 12:27 PM
So I guess in your book Gallo is number 1 overall? Please if you werent a Knick fan you wouldnt say that.

This is a fair one

1. Rose
2. Westbrook
3 Lopez
4. Love
5. Beasley
6. Mayo
7. Gordon
8. Gallo
9. Gibbert
10. Hickson

Gallo is in a system where he shoots 3s this is basically his 2nd year in the league since in the 08-09 season he wasnt played. He can hit 3s and is good with the pump fakes but hes number 8 in my book if yo lok at this list id pick all those before him.


I would take Gallo over Mayo. Gordon, eh. Toss up

NYYCowboys
11-27-2010, 12:35 PM
So I guess in your book Gallo is number 1 overall? Please if you werent a Knick fan you wouldnt say that.

This is a fair one

1. Rose
2. Westbrook
3 Lopez
4. Love
5. Beasley
6. Mayo
7. Gordon
8. Gallo
9. Gibbert
10. Hickson

Gallo is in a system where he shoots 3s this is basically his 2nd year in the league since in the 08-09 season he wasnt played. He can hit 3s and is good with the pump fakes but hes number 8 in my book if yo lok at this list id pick all those before him.

Mayo is garbage. He's shooting like 38% from the field this year and doesn't even start on the Grizzlies give me a break.

Hustla23
11-27-2010, 12:41 PM
KLove is first in rebounding.
Javale McGee is 2nd in blocks.

yet neither of those deserve to be first.

and get your facts right, gallo isnt even in the top 50 in efficiency.

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't even know if I should respond to it seriously.

But just a hint, take a closer look at what I've actually posted on the first page of this thread.



So I guess in your book Gallo is number 1 overall? Please if you werent a Knick fan you wouldnt say that.

This is a fair one

1. Rose
2. Westbrook
3 Lopez
4. Love
5. Beasley
6. Mayo
7. Gordon
8. Gallo
9. Gibbert
10. Hickson

Gallo is in a system where he shoots 3s this is basically his 2nd year in the league since in the 08-09 season he wasnt played. He can hit 3s and is good with the pump fakes but hes number 8 in my book if yo lok at this list id pick all those before him.

Did I say he was number 1 overall? Are you going to try to put words in my mouth just to muster a lackluster point? I said that being left out of the top 10 by all these posters is entirely unwarranted given the fact that he is the most efficient player in his draft class.

Simply being in a system has nothing to do with efficiency. I'm willing to bet you don't entirely grasp my point either way so this argument is probably futile.

Any player who can shoot threes as well he does, draw fouls at a high rate as he does, and nearly optimize those fouls by having the second best free throw percentage in the league, is going to be extremely efficient.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 12:42 PM
objectively, mine would be

Rose
Westbrook
Love
Lopez
Gallo
Beasley
Hibbert
Gordon
Hickson
Mayo

heyman321
11-27-2010, 12:52 PM
JJ Hickson, not top 5. He is terrible. Really screwing my fantasy team over when I'd thought he'd have a breakout year without Lebron

TO to the CHI
11-27-2010, 01:01 PM
Offensive Rating
1. Tyson Chandler-DAL 141.6
2. Amir Johnson-TOR 133.1
3. Al Horford-ATL 130.9
4. Pau Gasol-LAL 129.6
5. Serge Ibaka-OKC 128.8
6. Danilo Gallinari-NYK 127.5

Offensive Win Shares
1. Pau Gasol-LAL 2.6
2. Chris Paul-NOH 2.1
3. Al Horford-ATL 2.1
4. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 1.9
5. Paul Millsap-UTA 1.9
6. Manu Ginobili-SAS 1.8
7. Deron Williams-UTA 1.8
8. Russell Westbrook-OKC 1.7
9. Danilo Gallinari-NYK 1.7

Not exactly Top 5 but pretty damn close. Also, once again, more efficient than anyone in the draft class.

Learn to come up with any sort of evidence when you try to refute something someone has said and not just straight up make a fool out of yourself.

I think you just need to look at the list for offensive rating to realize that these stats are more impressive from a mathematics perspective than a baseketball perspective. With the exception of Gasol, none of the players on that list are elite offensive players. They may be efficient (in several instances decent shooters who don't shoot often and can hit free throws), but we are talking about the game of basketball not a very limited statistic. I look forward to the thread where you argue that Amir Johnson should not be overlooked because of his incredible efficiency. Or how Tyson Chandler is a great player because of his efficiency. I recognize the stat and I get what you are trying to say, but I think it is clear that it is only one metric and not at all dispositive in this argument.

Gallo is a top ten pick in that draft if it was redone, but I think that Rose, Westbrook, B. Lopez, Love, and Gordon are all ahead of him for sure. And others arguably are as well.

lvlheaded
11-27-2010, 01:02 PM
I actually had a huge man crush on OJ Mayo going into that draft. I wanted him so bad and will admit, I was very disappointed when the Knicks didn't get him.

Having said that, I couldn't be happier with Gallo.

1.Rose
2.Lopez
3.Westbrook
4.Love
5.Gallo
6.Mayo
7.Gordon
8.Beasley
9.Hibbert
10.Hickson

DoMeFavors
11-27-2010, 01:03 PM
Mayo is garbage. He's shooting like 38% from the field this year and doesn't even start on the Grizzlies give me a break.

He had started most of his career games up untill this season, he shot over 40 percent from the field. He isnt having a great season so far in 15 games but to say he is garbage is crazy. The guy is a scorer and can put the ball in the net. Whats so bad about him? Judge him by 15 games this season?

NYtilIdie
11-27-2010, 01:04 PM
Come on dude. I think you know that offensive rating and offensive win shares are the stats that are most indicative of offensive player efficiency. They are formulated very nicely in terms of assessing proper linear weights and other stats are very flawed in comparison. So they're not just "a couple of advanced stats." They're the most indicative ones.

I'd like to see how you could do the same with Love.

And Love just happens to be a rebounder. What else? Please don't make such shortsighted comments.

C'mon Hustla, we both watched the Knicks/T'Wolves game. Love can do more then just rebound you know that.

In fact since that historic game Love has been on a tear

PTS/REB
22/17 7-15 shooting
20/9 8-16
24/14 7-11
0/7 0-7
24/17 10-17
32/22 11/19

Sandman
11-27-2010, 01:05 PM
I think the Knicks still end up with Gallinari. Maybe Brook Lopez, but Gallinari fit right in with D'Antoni's offense and D'Antoni played with his dad way back when. I think knowing what they know today, they still make the same pick.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 01:07 PM
He had started most of his career games up untill this season, he shot over 40 percent from the field. He isnt having a great season so far in 15 games but to say he is garbage is crazy. The guy is a scorer and can put the ball in the net. Whats so bad about him? Judge him by 15 games this season?

he is not making shots, and he has 31 free throw attempts all season. Mayo is playing very, very poor this season. On top of that, he was better as a rookie than as a sophomore. And any player involved in a draft day trade must also live up to that. And Love is clearly the better player today

NYYCowboys
11-27-2010, 01:10 PM
He had started most of his career games up untill this season, he shot over 40 percent from the field. He isnt having a great season so far in 15 games but to say he is garbage is crazy. The guy is a scorer and can put the ball in the net. Whats so bad about him? Judge him by 15 games this season?

Even without this season's awful start Gallo is better than he is. And I'll be the first one to admit that when the Knicks drafted Gallo that year I was disappointed because I rather would have had Mayo. But Mayo definitely hasn't lived up to his potential, and maybe never will.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 01:10 PM
Come on dude. I think you know that offensive rating and offensive win shares are the stats that are most indicative of offensive player efficiency. They are formulated very nicely in terms of assessing proper linear weights and other stats are very flawed in comparison. So they're not just "a couple of advanced stats." They're the most indicative ones.

I'd like to see how you could do the same with Love.

And Love just happens to be a rebounder. What else? Please don't make such shortsighted comments.

I agree Gallo is an efficient scorer. And nothing else.
Please lets not go down that road, Love versus Gallo. As of now, its not much of a comparison. Gallo is a scorer. Love is a lot more than that.

netsgiantsyanks
11-27-2010, 01:11 PM
chicago-derrick rose
miami-russell westbrook
minnesota-brook lopez
seattle(okc)-kevin love
memphis-oj mayo
NY-gallo
LA clippers-gordon
milawakee-beasley
charlotte-hibbert
new jersey-jj hickson

Hustla23
11-27-2010, 01:13 PM
I think you just need to look at the list for offensive rating to realize that these stats are more impressive from a mathematics perspective than a baseketball perspective. With the exception of Gasol, none of the players on that list are elite offensive players. They may be efficient (in several instances decent shooters who don't shoot often and can hit free throws), but we are talking about the game of basketball not a very limited statistic. I look forward to the thread where you argue that Amir Johnson should not be overlooked because of his incredible efficiency. Or how Tyson Chandler is a great player because of his efficiency. I recognize the stat and I get what you are trying to say, but I think it is clear that it is only one metric and not at all dispositive in this argument.

Gallo is a top ten pick in that draft if it was redone, but I think that Rose, Westbrook, B. Lopez, Love, and Gordon are all ahead of him for sure. And others arguably are as well.
Did you skip over the list for offensive win shares? I think it's important to know what the stat is attempting to measure and judging whether it is effective in doing so. Offensive rating attempts to measure the offensive efficiency of a player on a per possession basis, but you're right, it doesn't account for regression and it is entirely possible that very low usage players can look amazing by doing something productive in a very limited span.

However, offensive win shares is not a limited statistic. It is, in fact, incorrect to term it "limited" when it attempts to describe overall offensive production, by assigning appropriate linear weights to different offensive events, and summing these constituent factors to formulate its output.

It is also a bad idea to just dismiss the validity of something by examining the people on a list and using our preconceived notions regarding said people to theorize everything that could possibly be wrong with it.

But even if you were to do this, tell me the players listed on offensive win shares aren't elite offensive players?

Hustla23
11-27-2010, 01:14 PM
C'mon Hustla, we both watched the Knicks/T'Wolves game. Love can do more then just rebound you know that.

In fact since that historic game Love has been on a tear

PTS/REB
22/17 7-15 shooting
20/9 8-16
24/14 7-11
0/7 0-7
24/17 10-17
32/22 11/19
I know he can do more than that.

I was just throwing out my own example of a preconceived notion since the poster I responded to seemed to think that all Gallo can do is score.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 01:16 PM
I know he can do more than that.

I was just throwing out my own example of a preconceived notion since the poster I responded to seemed to think that all Gallo can do is score.

fair enough dude. I can side with that

Hustla23
11-27-2010, 01:18 PM
I agree Gallo is an efficient scorer. And nothing else.
Please lets not go down that road, Love versus Gallo. As of now, its not much of a comparison. Gallo is a scorer. Love is a lot more than that.
Clearly, you haven't seen the dude play if that is your opinion.

And I'm sorry, possessing an elite offensive rating and subsequent elite offensive win shares total says much more than being just an efficient "scorer." It undoubtedly terms a player to be an efficient "offensive player." I'm assuming that you know this based on the formula used to produce offensive rating.

In terms of pure scoring ability, Gallo is not that talented. But in terms of being an overall efficient player on the offensive side of the ball, he is very much that. And clearly, more so than almost every other player in the draft class.

I'm not interested in a Love, Gallo debate but me saying Love is simply a rebounder is the same as you calling Gallo merely an efficient scorer.

Gallo plays above average man to man defense, and plays arguably the best help defense on the team. There's other factors that I can name as I'm sure you can do regarding Love.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 01:21 PM
Clearly, you haven't seen the dude play if that is your opinion.

And I'm sorry, possessing an elite offensive rating and subsequent elite offensive win shares total says much more than being just an efficient "scorer." It undoubtedly terms a player to be an efficient "offensive player." I'm assuming that you know this based on the formula used to produce offensive rating.

In terms of pure scoring ability, Gallo is not that talented. But in terms of being an overall efficient player on the offensive side of the ball, he is very much that. And clearly, more so than almost every other player in the draft class.

I'm not interested in a Love, Gallo debate but me saying Love is simply a rebounder is the same as you calling Gallo merely an efficient scorer.

Gallo plays above average man to man defense, and plays arguably the best help defense on the team. There's other factors that I can name as I'm sure you can do regarding Love.


does the term, efficient offensive player, make you happy then? By no means am I bashing Gallo here. I have watched him play 3 times this season, once was early when he was kinda sucking. I like his game, and think he will develop into a good all around player. But as of now, his strength is taking care of the ball, and finishing opportunties on the offensive end. The rest of his game has a ways to go.
I think the same can be said of all the players from that draft class, even Rose, Westbrook, and Love.

DoMeFavors
11-27-2010, 01:24 PM
Clearly, you haven't seen the dude play if that is your opinion.

And I'm sorry, possessing an elite offensive rating and subsequent elite offensive win shares total says much more than being just an efficient "scorer." It undoubtedly terms a player to be an efficient "offensive player." I'm assuming that you know this based on the formula used to produce offensive rating.

In terms of pure scoring ability, Gallo is not that talented. But in terms of being an overall efficient player on the offensive side of the ball, he is very much that. And clearly, more so than almost every other player in the draft class.

I'm not interested in a Love, Gallo debate but me saying Love is simply a rebounder is the same as you calling Gallo merely an efficient scorer.

Gallo plays above average man to man defense, and plays arguably the best help defense on the team. There's other factors that I can name as I'm sure you can do regarding Love.


Only Knick fans would think so highly, and the best defense on the Knicks is probably the worst defense on the Celtics. You can say what you want but right now if I had a choice of Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo or Danillo Gallinari id choose Eric Gordon. When a team puts up over 100 points a game night in and night out usually the players put up big numbers. I dont see anything special about Gallo. The man will never been an All Star in this league, will never be an all defensive player of the year, will never be a top 50 player in this league.

Hustla23
11-27-2010, 01:28 PM
does the term, efficient offensive player, make you happy then? By no means am I bashing Gallo here. I have watched him play 3 times this season, once was early when he was kinda sucking. I like his game, and think he will develop into a good all around player. But as of now, his strength is taking care of the ball, and finishing opportunties on the offensive end. The rest of his game has a ways to go.
I think the same can be said of all the players from that draft class, even Rose, Westbrook, and Love.
Yes, it does, because they carry two entirely different meanings. While he isn't the sexiest player with all the nifty moves you'd like to see, he uses what he has to be one of the most efficient players in the league. And in terms of winning games, efficient production is all that matters. Faking a defender, driving to the hoop, drawing a foul, and hitting two hoops is almost the same as jumping from the free throw line and throwing down a windmill.

I agree that he needs improvement as does any player who isn't Michael Jordan in his prime, but the only reason I'm being so gung-ho is because Gallo is totally disrespected by all these fools who haven't seem him play or base their opinions on crap like per game stats and the fantastical notion that Mike D'antoni lets him shoot threes from half court.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 01:29 PM
Yes, it does, because they carry two entirely different meanings. While he isn't the sexiest player with all the nifty moves you'd like to see, he uses what he has to be one of the most efficient players in the league. And in terms of winning games, efficient production is all that matters. Faking a defender, driving to the hoop, drawing a foul, and hitting two hoops is almost the same as jumping from the free throw line and throwing down a windmill.

I agree that he needs improvement as does any player who isn't Michael Jordan in his prime, but the only reason I'm being so gung-ho is because Gallo is totally disrespected by all these fools who haven't seem him play or base their opinions on crap like per game stats and the fantastical notion that Mike D'antoni lets him shoot threes from half court.

apparently, you haven't been watching him play :)

Hustla23
11-27-2010, 01:29 PM
Only Knick fans would think so highly, and the best defense on the Knicks is probably the worst defense on the Celtics. You can say what you want but right now if I had a choice of Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo or Danillo Gallinari id choose Eric Gordon. When a team puts up over 100 points a game night in and night out usually the players put up big numbers. I dont see anything special about Gallo. The man will never been an All Star in this league, will never be an all defensive player of the year, will never be a top 50 player in this league.
Excellent post using nothing but tangible statistics or other facts or anything remotely useful in an intelligent conservation.

You got me handcuffed, homie.

/sarcasm.

Hustla23
11-27-2010, 01:31 PM
apparently, you haven't been watching him play :)
I hope your girl doesn't see what you post. :p

JLMiles14
11-27-2010, 01:32 PM
Only Knick fans would think so highly, and the best defense on the Knicks is probably the worst defense on the Celtics. You can say what you want but right now if I had a choice of Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo or Danillo Gallinari id choose Eric Gordon. When a team puts up over 100 points a game night in and night out usually the players put up big numbers. I dont see anything special about Gallo. The man will never been an All Star in this league, will never be an all defensive player of the year, will never be a top 50 player in this league.

This coming from the same guy that said Landy Fields does nothing to help his team win games. :facepalm: Your nothing more then a Knick basher bro.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 01:32 PM
Only Knick fans would think so highly, and the best defense on the Knicks is probably the worst defense on the Celtics. You can say what you want but right now if I had a choice of Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo or Danillo Gallinari id choose Eric Gordon. When a team puts up over 100 points a game night in and night out usually the players put up big numbers. I dont see anything special about Gallo. The man will never been an All Star in this league, will never be an all defensive player of the year, will never be a top 50 player in this league.

Hustla is referring to his offensive rating, his win share count offensively, and his TS%, all of which are way, way, way better than Gordon or Mayo. And if you are basing you thought process of them all being shooters, etc, why would you not want the 6'11" one??
I would take Gallo over Mayo or Gordon any day of the week man. The stats in which Huslta is posting don't care about pace, or role, or style of play.

J_M_B
11-27-2010, 01:33 PM
Mine will probably be..

Rose
Lopez
Love
Westbrook
Gallo
Beasley
Hibbert
Gordon
Mayo
Hickson

Hustla23
11-27-2010, 01:34 PM
This coming from the same guy that said Landy Fields does nothing to help his team win games. :facepalm: Your nothing more then a Knick basher bro.
He apparently also wants Favors to do him. :puke:

DoMeFavors
11-27-2010, 01:45 PM
This coming from the same guy that said Landy Fields does nothing to help his team win games. :facepalm: Your nothing more then a Knick basher bro.

I never said anything about Landry not helping a team, I said he is never going to be a Melo or Pierce go to guy. I dont hate the Knicks I feel I need to say stuff when Knicks overate players. I watch every Knick game since I live in the Tri State Area and I watch as an unbiased bball fan.

JLMiles14
11-27-2010, 01:58 PM
I never said anything about Landry not helping a team, I said he is never going to be a Melo or Pierce go to guy. I dont hate the Knicks I feel I need to say stuff when Knicks overate players. I watch every Knick game since I live in the Tri State Area and I watch as an unbiased bball fan.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15596896#post15596896

Yea thats right according to you, hes no more then a stat filler. haha :facepalm:

DoMeFavors
11-27-2010, 01:59 PM
He apparently also wants Favors to do him. :puke:

HAHA! I dont mean in that way

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 02:00 PM
every poster makes posts they wish they didnt. Drop it now, or I delete the posts all together