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topdog
11-26-2010, 12:59 AM
So the general concensus in the past in the general NBA forum has been that David Kahn is an idiot. Discussing him seems to be an invitation for bashing the Wolves and Minnesota in general. But with several recent threads discussing players who he brought in and their drastic improvement, I was interested to see if people have changed their mind about him.

Specifically, I'm talking about:

Beasley - starting to put up those Kansas State numbers on offense

Love (unleashed w/ Al being shipped out) - leading the league in rpg, Mr. 30-30, Chairman of the Boards

Darko - leading the league in bpg and starting to show life on offense w/ 3 straight 20+ point games

Wes Johnson - still adapting but showing signs of being a good shooter and defender and throwing down some sick dunks

Rubio - The Spanish Soapstar: will he come? can he live up to the hype? all these questions answered and more in 2010?


So, has anyone changed their mind about Kahn?

Sixerlover
11-26-2010, 01:11 AM
Most of those updates are what everyone predicted (sans Love's 30 and 30 game and Darko actually scoring). I still believe he could have had a better offseason, getting some more value for Al Jeff than simply opening the doors for Darko and Love, and not trading that pick for Webster (I hated that move pre-back injury concerns). He had some good moves this offseason, and some bad moves, but the fact that he made so many moves is what put him in the spotlight. That and comparing Darko's passing ability to that of Vlade and C-Webb :p

All things considered they're still a 4-12 team, a competitive 4-12 team, but a 4-12 team nonetheless.

Geargo Wallace
11-26-2010, 01:29 AM
after drafting 10 PG's I thought he was a moron. What GM hasn't gotten a couple of decent players?

xabial
11-26-2010, 01:42 AM
after drafting 10 PG's I thought he was a moron. What GM hasn't gotten a couple of decent players?

x2

And To Add insult to injury that draft was a necessary draft for the Knicks who Desperatly needed a PG at the time but this guy just cleans them up. Never going to forget that day...
And for a dude who doesnt want to play for them nontheless.. No Hard Feelings right?...


But Regarding his GM Moves, he's fun to watch. He's always willing to Trade, and change his roster dramatically.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 01:44 AM
before I even give my opinion, please tell me what you don't like.

NYKnickFanatic
11-26-2010, 01:45 AM
"I've been Kahned since day 1!" :pity:

PC
11-26-2010, 01:55 AM
before I even give my opinion, please tell me what you don't like.

Besides drafting Rubio and Flynn before signing Sessions, there's really not much to complain about Kahn. I don't know if you can say he's done an excellent job by any means but I think he's done ok

xabial
11-26-2010, 01:56 AM
before I even give my opinion, please tell me what you don't like.



A Team with a Above .500 Record.


No Excuses.

A GM is A GM, and his team is a representation of it. Gm assembles the Roster, Coach utilizes it to its full potential.

Ill give him Time.... Thats why for now he's just another GM That Trades Numerously... Not that great... But like i said he's still fun to watch.

Statik1
11-26-2010, 02:02 AM
Still too early to tell....

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 02:02 AM
Nope. His drafting is horrendous. His signings are bizzare. His rationale is terrible. He is not a good GM. A good salesman, maybe. A good GM, NO.


And thats just on the business side I won't even get into his PR debacles.......

VikesTwinsWolve
11-26-2010, 02:19 AM
Kahned:clap:

Evolution23
11-26-2010, 02:30 AM
He is currently the worst GM. Instead of drafting players to fill out needed positions he drafted so many PG's. The Rubio pick was ********, he should have done some research on the kid and found out if would actually play in MINI. Then he goes and signs Darko to a 4 year deal, when Darko himself was sure he would not come back to the NBA. Beasley and Love are the only players I respect on the the Wolves. But overall you can call Khan a fail.

Dodgers99
11-26-2010, 03:09 AM
Hopefully the gaffes continue and gives the Clippers a top 5 pick in 2012.

Raph12
11-26-2010, 03:16 AM
It's still early, let's see what happens with the Rubio-Flynn situation next season...

John Walls Era
11-26-2010, 03:36 AM
He has made some weird decisions. I don't think he should be credited by Love's game; Kevin McHale drafted him if I remember correctly. His recent drafts haven't been terrible, but they could've been waaaayyyy better. Its easy to dissect his moves now, but I don't understand why he passed Curry (Flynn was borderline top 10 in many mocks) and I don't get the Babbit trade.

I should also mention that he single handedly made the jazz better (better than when they had Boozer) when A) In the same DIVISION and B) Trading Al for 2 low mid rounders...

Chronz
11-26-2010, 04:24 AM
The Flynn selection was bad not because of Rubio but because he couldve gotten a player of similar value in the teens, like say Ty Lawson and thats being generous to the comparison because to me there is none.

Rafer17
11-26-2010, 11:45 AM
He still overpaid Darko :laugh2:

4 Years/20 Mill? Who was he trying to outbid? :laugh2:

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 12:04 PM
He is currently the worst GM. Instead of drafting players to fill out needed positions he drafted so many PG's. The Rubio pick was ********, he should have done some research on the kid and found out if would actually play in MINI. Then he goes and signs Darko to a 4 year deal, when Darko himself was sure he would not come back to the NBA. Beasley and Love are the only players I respect on the the Wolves. But overall you can call Khan a fail.

a lottery team that drafts for need will remain in the lottery forever.

rickshaw
11-26-2010, 12:14 PM
a lottery team that drafts for need will remain in the lottery forever.

so will a team who drafts johnny flynn before curry jennings and lawson.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 12:18 PM
so will a team who drafts johnny flynn before curry jennings and lawson.

totally, cause all other 29 teams have never made a draft mistake.
My point stands however

rickshaw
11-26-2010, 12:24 PM
totally, cause all other 29 teams have never made a draft mistake.
My point stands however

but were talking about one gm in particular. he had 2 top 6 picks. i like rubio but he still isn't playing over here and isnt exactly lighting it up in europe and flynn might not even be a top 5 pg from that draft when all is said and done

magichatnumber9
11-26-2010, 12:32 PM
You could just use NBAdraft.net as your only reference on draft day and still draft better then Kahn

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 12:42 PM
but were talking about one gm in particular. he had 2 top 6 picks. i like rubio but he still isn't playing over here and isnt exactly lighting it up in europe and flynn might not even be a top 5 pg from that draft when all is said and done

love the Rubio pick. I was never on board with the Flynn pick, but I would like to at least give him a bit to prove himself.
And again, my point stands. if you are in the lottery, you draft best available talent on your personal draft board. i was not defending the Flynn pick, I was saying you don't draft for need, since you have a ton if you are in the lottery

NYsFinest
11-26-2010, 12:53 PM
It's still November and Minny's season is already over, not really sure what Kahn has done that deserves any praise. All he did was create some noise and run in place, anybody can make semi-boneheaded draft choices and say they brought in "young talent".

arkanian215
11-26-2010, 01:55 PM
Hopefully the gaffes continue and gives the Clippers a top 5 pick in 2012.

I heard that pick was top 10 protected last night on TNT during the Clipps game.

Dodgers99
11-26-2010, 01:59 PM
I heard that pick was top 10 protected last night on TNT during the Clipps game.

Unprotected for the 2012 draft.

tangent12
11-26-2010, 02:01 PM
Kahn's a bust.

arkanian215
11-26-2010, 02:04 PM
Unprotected for the 2012 draft.

lolKhan

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 02:18 PM
I heard that pick was top 10 protected last night on TNT during the Clipps game.

for this year. Next year unprotected.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 02:19 PM
lolKhan

that would be McHale homie. Cassell and a first round pick were traded to the Clippers for Marko Jaric in 2005. Compared to McHale, Kahn is GM of the year

arkanian215
11-26-2010, 02:20 PM
Was it Kahn who traded Miller and Foye for the Wizard's first? That was a nice deal.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 02:21 PM
Was it Kahn who traded Miller and Foye for the Wizard's first? That was a nice deal.

yes. It turned into Rubio

Evolution23
11-26-2010, 02:40 PM
love the Rubio pick. I was never on board with the Flynn pick, but I would like to at least give him a bit to prove himself.
And again, my point stands. if you are in the lottery, you draft best available talent on your personal draft board. i was not defending the Flynn pick, I was saying you don't draft for need, since you have a ton if you are in the lottery

You draft to build a complete team, unless you have a chance to get a superstar player that is already proven himself in college. The wolves didn't have any player of that caliber. How is drafting Rubio, Flyn, and then signing Sessions a good deal. Now all 3 can't play to their full capabilities because of lack of playing time. Also how can you defend sgning a guy like Darko for a 4 year deal? They could have gotten a nice big in the draft who blocks shots and rebounds for much cheaper and would probably outplay Darko. I don't understand your logic. Homerism is not allowing you to think clearly.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 02:47 PM
You draft to build a complete team, unless you have a chance to get a superstar player that is already proven himself in college. The wolves didn't have any player of that caliber. How is drafting Rubio, Flyn, and then signing Sessions a good deal. Now all 3 can't play to their full capabilities because of lack of playing time. Also how can you defend sgning a guy like Darko for a 4 year deal? They could have gotten a nice big in the draft who blocks shots and rebounds for much cheaper and would probably outplay Darko. I don't understand your logic. Homerism is not allowing you to think clearly.

First off, if you are a rebuilding team, you draft best available, period, regardless of position.
They drafted Rubio knowing he was probably not going to be able to get out of his buyout after he fell outside the top 3. They had Flynn next on their board. They signed Sessions, to get a 2nd PG. If you remember, Sessions was actually a very wanted FA that summer.

Darko was signed for less than $5 million a year. Please go through all 30 teams, pull up their starting center, and look at the salaries. Darko's play of recent also suggests that it may end being a great deal. 25 year old 7 footers who are athletic tend to get deal after deal dude.

I am not defending the Flynn pick necessarily. But I am telling you proper draft strategy for their situation at the time.

Homerism doesn't come into play in my posts. Sorry dude, I am one of the few who is actually subjective pretty much all the time.

Sixerlover
11-26-2010, 02:50 PM
I think his argument is regardless of best available or need, Flynn wasn't the best available on the board at the time. I don't ever remember his NBA potential being very high coming out of Cuse

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 02:51 PM
I think his argument is regardless of best available or need, Flynn wasn't the best available on the board at the time. I don't ever remember his NBA potential being very high coming out of Cuse

I am not defending the Flynn pick. I am only stating draft strategy for their situation. And no, a page ago he stated they should have drafted for need.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 02:52 PM
He turned a roster with inflated contract with average vets into multiple small deals that can be flipped, Ricky Rubio eventually, young talent, tons of picks and cap space, and got Beasley for literally nothing.
Wolves fans are fine with him currently. Has he made some wait and see decisions? For sure. But no GM is perfect, and they all miss here and there. Kahn turned a team with no flexibility into a team with major flexibility
Over the last 2 weeks, the Darko trade/resigning is looking great. I will have to see this for another 30 games to buy into it for good however

Allstar21
11-26-2010, 03:34 PM
8 Michael Beasley PF 21 6-10 235
22 Corey Brewer SG 24 6-9 188
19 Wayne Ellington G 22 6-4 200
10 Jonny Flynn PG 21 6-0 185
1 Sundiata Gaines G 24 6-1 200
32 Lazar Hayward F 24 6-6 225
4 Wesley Johnson SF 23 6-7 205
41 Kosta Koufos C 21 7-0 265
42 Kevin Love PF 22 6-10 260
31 Darko Milicic C 25 7-0 275
14 Nikola Pekovic C 24 6-11 243
13 Luke Ridnour PG 29 6-2 175
3 Sebastian Telfair PG 25 6-0 175
44 Anthony Tolliver C 25 6-9 243
5 Martell Webster SF 23 6-7 235

Take out Ridnour and their oldest player is only 25. I am in no way a wolves fan and for a long time i thought Khan was a moron but i am starting to like his moves.

Their starting five is
C- 25 years old and leads the league in blocks while averaging 20ppg the last 3 games
PF - 22 years old Leads the league in rebounds and had the first 30-30 game in decades
SF - 21 years old and is turning into a prolific scorer and has real size for a SF
SG - 23 years old (wes johnson) is 6'7" with a 3 point shot
PG - 21 years old (Flynn) or 19 years old (Rubio)

This team, just like the new clippers (when baron and kamen don't play) are incredibly young and talented with a huge upside.
From where the wolves were two years ago to where they are today is really incredible when you think about it. They went from no-hope and barely any upside to a team with REAL HOPE.
Their starting 5 avg age is 22.4 years old (with flynn) or 22 years old (with Rubio)
Kahn has said all along that it wont happen overnight. They will not make the playoffs this year but they have hope for the first time in a while in Sota.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 03:41 PM
8 Michael Beasley PF 21 6-10 235
22 Corey Brewer SG 24 6-9 188
19 Wayne Ellington G 22 6-4 200
10 Jonny Flynn PG 21 6-0 185
1 Sundiata Gaines G 24 6-1 200
32 Lazar Hayward F 24 6-6 225
4 Wesley Johnson SF 23 6-7 205
41 Kosta Koufos C 21 7-0 265
42 Kevin Love PF 22 6-10 260
31 Darko Milicic C 25 7-0 275
14 Nikola Pekovic C 24 6-11 243
13 Luke Ridnour PG 29 6-2 175
3 Sebastian Telfair PG 25 6-0 175
44 Anthony Tolliver C 25 6-9 243
5 Martell Webster SF 23 6-7 235

Take out Ridnour and their oldest player is only 25. I am in no way a wolves fan and for a long time i thought Khan was a moron but i am starting to like his moves.

Their starting five is
C- 25 years old and leads the league in blocks while averaging 20ppg the last 3 games
PF - 22 years old Leads the league in rebounds and had the first 30-30 game in decades
SF - 21 years old and is turning into a prolific scorer and has real size for a SF
SG - 23 years old (wes johnson) is 6'7" with a 3 point shot
PG - 21 years old (Flynn) or 19 years old (Rubio)

This team, just like the new clippers (when baron and kamen don't play) are incredibly young and talented with a huge upside.
From where the wolves were two years ago to where they are today is really incredible when you think about it. They went from no-hope and barely any upside to a team with REAL HOPE.
Their starting 5 avg age is 22.4 years old (with flynn) or 22 years old (with Rubio)
Kahn has said all along that it wont happen overnight. They will not make the playoffs this year but they have hope for the first time in a while in Sota.

Exactly right. Wolves fans, since 2005, finally have something to be excited about. For the fans who have stuck with the Wolves for all these years, the ups and DOWNS, this situation is exciting. Many of you can crap on our GM, or young players, or players we have that dont even play for us yet, but we really just don't care. I will continue to defend the franchise when it needs to be defended, but in reality, none of us give a crap what many of you, who want to spray your negativity on the Wolves, think.

Look at the roster/payroll, and our number of picks and capspace 2 years ago, and look at it now. Its a world of difference.

td0tsfinest
11-26-2010, 03:58 PM
I'll admit, I thought Kahn was an idiot but he's putting together a nice young core. Love and Beasley have been playing amazing. Kahn basically got Beasley for virtually nothing and Rubio and turned Mike Miller and Randy Foye into Ricky Rubio, not bad.

Michael Beasley is their highest paid player (who'll make around $ 8 million at the end of this contract), which gives the team a lot of financial flexibility. Possibility of Rubio coming over and another top draft pick, I'd be excited if I were a wolves fan.

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 04:03 PM
I really don't buy into the whole "they're young give them time" bit because other teams like Chicago, OKC, and Milw have been in the drafting business as long as Minny and they have done it right and are playoff teams now. GRANTED OKC and Chi hit home run high picks with Rose and Durant, but they also drafted well later with plug in guys like Harding, Gibson, and Milw scouted well with Jennings. I can't give Minny a pass because they have had good quality draft positions under Kahns regime and his choices have been questionable to say the least. Had he not totally blundered a couple of drafts they would be a .500 team right now as we sit.

Hindsight is always 20/20 but any reasonable person would have to admit this guys draft record is poor.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 04:09 PM
I really don't buy into the whole "they're young give them time" bit because other teams like Chicago, OKC, and Milw have been in the drafting business as long as Minny and they have done it right and are playoff teams now. GRANTED OKC and Chi hit home run high picks with Rose and Durant, but they also drafted well later with plug in guys like Harding, Gibson, and Milw scouted well with Jennings. I can't give Minny a pass because they have had good quality draft positions under Kahns regime and his choices have been questionable to say the least. Had he not totally blundered a couple of drafts they would be a .500 team right now as we sit.

Hindsight is always 20/20 but any reasonable person would have to admit this guys draft record is poor.

he has had two drafts dude. And his entire goal was to change the team almost entirely.
I love how some of you basically give him a fail for one reason- picking Jonny Flynn. How about the mulitple trades he has made? Or the picks he has collected? Or the 14 deals that can be moved in a heartbeat, versus most teams having 1-2 or more contracts that nobody in the NBA would touch?

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 04:11 PM
we are the youngest team in the NBA. I flip over the espn stat page, and low and behold, two Wolves have their pictures up, leading the NBA in a statistical category. OKC got Durant, and suffered through a 20 and 32 win season, then became competitive in year 3 of the process. This is year 1 basically for Kahn's team that he constructed to play. Chicago was already and up and coming team, that underachieved and missed the playoffs after being in it the year prior, and jumped 12 teams to get the #1 pick. Can't credit management for having ping pong ball luck, sorry.

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 04:15 PM
he has had two drafts dude. And his entire goal was to change the team almost entirely.
I love how some of you basically give him a fail for one reason- picking Jonny Flynn. How about the mulitple trades he has made? Or the picks he has collected? Or the 14 deals that can be moved in a heartbeat, versus most teams having 1-2 or more contracts that nobody in the NBA would touch?


He didn't draft just Flynn he drafted 4 point guards, none of which are any good, one of which has yet to play. Thats a fact. You talking about moves he CAN make. Thats all good in theory but Im dealing with reality which is right now. He also drafted Corey Brewer in a high position who's stats are a tad bit better than mine, and Im not in the NBA. Thats another fact.

You can tell me all day of the various possibilities that MAY happen but right now, as we sit, his draft record is no bueno and his team is horrible. Exciting yes, but horrible.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 04:19 PM
He didn't draft just Flynn he drafted 4 point guards, none of which are any good, one of which has yet to play. Thats a fact. You talking about moves he CAN make. Thats all good in theory but Im dealing with reality which is right now. He also drafted Corey Brewer in a high position who's stats are a tad bit better than mine, and Im not in the NBA. Thats another fact.

You can tell me all day of the various possibilities that MAY happen but right now, as we sit, his draft record is no bueno and his team is horrible. Exciting yes, but horrible.

Lawson was picked FOR the Nuggets. He drafted 3 PG's btw. And he got what most considered the most talented PG in the draft in Rubio.
And I sure am referring to many of the deals he has made.

And he didn't draft Corey Brewer. You are getting confused again

Hustlenomics
11-26-2010, 04:21 PM
guy that drafted 3 point guards in one round? LMAO

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 04:28 PM
guy that drafted 3 point guards in one round? LMAO

I have already addressed this

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 04:40 PM
Lawson was picked FOR the Nuggets. He drafted 3 PG's btw. And he got what most considered the most talented PG in the draft in Rubio.
And I sure am referring to many of the deals he has made.

And he didn't draft Corey Brewer. You are getting confused again


I apologize my friend I was confusing him with the previous blundering Wolves GM. As for this blundering Wolves GM I will say that most people outside of Minnesota believe he is a horrible drafter, as evidenced by the poll. I will also say his team is currently not good, as evidenced by their record. In conclusion I will say that he currently has a coach who is running a triangle offense that has never been successful without a superstar player.

These are SOME of the reasons I think he is a bad GM.

Lloyd Christmas
11-26-2010, 04:45 PM
I have no problem with Kahn. Drafting Flynn over Curry was his only mistake that stands out to me. I thought Wes Johnson over Cousins was a bad move, but there are already reports of Cousins' bad attitude off the court so who knows on that one. When people were clowning the Beasley trade I thought it was weird. Why not buy low on a young player still has a chance to put it together? I like the roster he has put together.

Face it dudes. Kahn > You as a GM. Go back to NBA 2K10.

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 04:54 PM
I apologize my friend I was confusing him with the previous blundering Wolves GM. As for this blundering Wolves GM I will say that most people outside of Minnesota believe he is a horrible drafter, as evidenced by the poll. I will also say his team is currently not good, as evidenced by their record. In conclusion I will say that he currently has a coach who is running a triangle offense that has never been successful without a superstar player.

These are SOME of the reasons I think he is a bad GM.

So if Rubio joins the Wolves and lives up to the hype, he now becomes a good GM?
There are so many things that go into being a GM. Drafting is one part. To base your opinion on one facet is a bit much.
Now, as for them being bad, Kahn himself said when he took over, "This will not happen overnight". He knew he had to blow the team up and start from scratch. Besides Love, what was there to keep around?

They don't run the triangle.

I respect your opinion, but please know you are also debating with a Wolves fan that knows all the facts, history, moves, trades, drafts, offense they run, etc off the top of my head. Make sure you are accurate when debating this subject with me, or it makes your statements seem less convincing. I don't go at it with religious, knowledgeable fans from the Knicks about how moronic many of their decisions are. It would be a waste of my time.

Geargo Wallace
11-26-2010, 05:04 PM
I have always like Genghis Kahn... Kublai Khan was a ****ing moron though.

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 05:12 PM
So if Rubio joins the Wolves and lives up to the hype, he now becomes a good GM?
There are so many things that go into being a GM. Drafting is one part. To base your opinion on one facet is a bit much.
Now, as for them being bad, Kahn himself said when he took over, "This will not happen overnight". He knew he had to blow the team up and start from scratch. Besides Love, what was there to keep around?

They don't run the triangle.

I respect your opinion, but please know you are also debating with a Wolves fan that knows all the facts, history, moves, trades, drafts, offense they run, etc off the top of my head. Make sure you are accurate when debating this subject with me, or it makes your statements seem less convincing. I don't go at it with religious, knowledgeable fans from the Knicks about how moronic many of their decisions are. It would be a waste of my time.



I respect your opinion my man but just understand that the mere fact that there is a really big IF gives me reason to feel the way I do. We can debate on the chances of Rubio coming over or living up to the hype or whatever, but the fact that as of now that pick has done nothing for them is not debatable. Also they are attempting to run a version of the triangle, thats not even debatable, thats an absolute well documented fact. They're also talking about sending Flynn to the D-league, again fact.

You know me I'm the first one to admit when I was wrong as with B-Easy and Darko not being total absolute garbage but the way I see it Kahn has made way to many "questionable" decisions for me to consider him as a good GM. Again this is just my opininion but it is well warranted and Im sure Im not alone on this....

rickshaw
11-26-2010, 05:14 PM
love the Rubio pick. I was never on board with the Flynn pick, but I would like to at least give him a bit to prove himself.
And again, my point stands. if you are in the lottery, you draft best available talent on your personal draft board. i was not defending the Flynn pick, I was saying you don't draft for need, since you have a ton if you are in the lottery

and the guy or guys he chose werent the best talent available at any position. i agree take best available. that wasnt flynn and who knows if it was rubio

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 05:23 PM
I respect your opinion my man but just understand that the mere fact that there is a really big IF gives me reason to feel the way I do. We can debate on the chances of Rubio coming over or living up to the hype or whatever, but the fact that as of now that pick has done nothing for them is not debatable. Also they are attempting to run a version of the triangle, thats not even debatable, thats an absolute well documented fact. They're also talking about sending Flynn to the D-league, again fact.

You know me I'm the first one to admit when I was wrong as with B-Easy and Darko not being total absolute garbage but the way I see it Kahn has made way to many "questionable" decisions for me to consider him as a good GM. Again this is just my opininion but it is well warranted and Im sure Im not alone on this....


they don't run the triangle.
And Flynn is being sent there to rehab his hip. In baseball, they do this all the time. The NBA should adopt it imo.

And of course you aren't alone on your opinion. But I find it funny that about 5 months ago, EVERYONE was crapping on Kahn. Slowly his decisions are paying off, and fans are now starting to move towards the middle on him. All Wolves fans knew this was coming. He had to gut that team, which meant losing was coming, period. The casual fan views that as failure, which is warranted.

And I know you dude. If the Wolves are a good team next year, you will be the first one to come in and say you were wrong. I am not worried about that part bro

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 05:24 PM
and the guy or guys he chose werent the best talent available at any position. i agree take best available. that wasnt flynn and who knows if it was rubio

so Rubio wasn't considered the best PG prospect in the 2009 draft? News to me

topdog
11-26-2010, 06:07 PM
I apologize my friend I was confusing him with the previous blundering Wolves GM. As for this blundering Wolves GM I will say that most people outside of Minnesota believe he is a horrible drafter, as evidenced by the poll. I will also say his team is currently not good, as evidenced by their record. In conclusion I will say that he currently has a coach who is running a triangle offense that has never been successful without a superstar player.

These are SOME of the reasons I think he is a bad GM.

I will say that most people outside of Minnesota don't know the facts as referenced by your thinking Brewer (drafted the offseason KG left for Boston) was a Kahn choice. Here are some more facts:

-The wolves don't run the triangle. They use elements of it but you won't be drawing triangles on your screen very often.

-The wolves have never had even a #2 pick in a draft, unlike Chicago and OKC. Sure we have some former #2 picks now, but they were discarded from other teams.

-Ty Lawson was drafted for the Nuggets precisely because the Wolves didn't want another pg. They traded out of a pg-heavy class and into the last one. Again, with Nick Calathes.

dominater6192
11-26-2010, 06:29 PM
Besides drafting Rubio and Flynn before signing Sessions, there's really not much to complain about Kahn. I don't know if you can say he's done an excellent job by any means but I think he's done ok

Yeah there's not much to complain about except he gave up Al Jefferson for a bag of peanuts.

topdog
11-26-2010, 06:33 PM
Yeah there's not much to complain about except he gave up Al Jefferson for a bag of peanuts.

Even with that, we are yet to see what two 1st round picks and Kosta Koufos turn into; but, more importantly, it freed up Love to be a starter and get big minutes and can be cancelled out by getting Beasley for "peanuts."

Sactown
11-26-2010, 06:39 PM
totally, cause all other 29 teams have never made a draft mistake.
My point stands however

This is true, unless you're boarderline championship callibur and you just need one peice.. you always draft the best talent

hugepatsfan
11-26-2010, 06:39 PM
I never thought he was that bad. I don't question the Rubio pick. Had to be made IMO. I think the Flyn pick was questionable. I think they would have been better off taking a guy that could lure Robio over rather than a temporary replacement.

HoopsMachine
11-26-2010, 06:58 PM
He's done an okay job in acquiring young talent, right now he's doing what he said he would from day 1, but this is relatively easy as ownership seems to have zero expectations of this franchise.

Some moves I didn't like was drafting Rubio especially how the whole scenario played out, acquiring Beasley also I felt was a bad move long term for them considering they had Love already, and pulling a Jerry West and handing Jefferson to the Jazz for absolutely nothing.

rickshaw
11-26-2010, 07:14 PM
so Rubio wasn't considered the best PG prospect in the 2009 draft? News to me

alot of risks taking rubio than with taking other players. i like the rubio pick though i just meant the jurys still out. flynn was a bad pick no matter what way you spin it. the love for mayo swap was good (not sure if that was kahn or machale.) and the wes johnson pick was not the 'best player available' so he went off track there

Kashmir13579
11-26-2010, 07:16 PM
Im still bitter that he drafted Flynn right before the Knicks could.

Mplsman
11-26-2010, 07:18 PM
Hahaha I love reading through threads like this, nice one topdog :clap:.

Hawkeye for Assistant Gm!

Kashmir13579
11-26-2010, 07:21 PM
alot of risks taking rubio than with taking other players. i like the rubio pick though i just meant the jurys still out. flynn was a bad pick no matter what way you spin it. the love for mayo swap was good (not sure if that was kahn or machale.) and the wes johnson pick was not the 'best player available' so he went off track there

i have to disagree. Wes should've been the no 3 pick.

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 07:23 PM
I will say that most people outside of Minnesota don't know the facts as referenced by your thinking Brewer (drafted the offseason KG left for Boston) was a Kahn choice. Here are some more facts:

-The wolves don't run the triangle. They use elements of it but you won't be drawing triangles on your screen very often.
-The wolves have never had even a #2 pick in a draft, unlike Chicago and OKC. Sure we have some former #2 picks now, but they were discarded from other teams.

-Ty Lawson was drafted for the Nuggets precisely because the Wolves didn't want another pg. They traded out of a pg-heavy class and into the last one. Again, with Nick Calathes.


Just for the record they are attempting to use the triangle, Im not even sure why you guys keep arguing against that. Its a bastardized piss-poor ineffective version of it, and it only constitutes about half of their offense but nontheless thats what they're trying to do. Thats actually one of their many problems is that you can't "kinda" use a offense, its pretty much all or none. That would be like running "parts of" the princeton offense or parts off D'Antoni's 7 seconds offense. Its ineffective and all it does is confuse the players. I know basketball man, trust me Im not just making stuff up....

-------------------------------


December 14, 2009, 4:57 pm
The Timberwolves’ Flynn and the Triangle Offense
By JONATHAN ABRAMS
Kurt Rambis and the Minnesota Timberwolves are bold in implementing components of the triangle offense, journeying where few others have, despite its success with the Los Angeles Lakers and the Chicago Bulls.

Its success in Minnesota is largely predicated on the progress of the rookie point guard Jonny Flynn. Flynn played in a pick-and-roll-dominated system at Syracuse University, where he was free to drive to the basket after screens were set for him. By all accounts, Flynn is playing well for a rookie thrown into the thick of things, averaging 13.7 points and 4.3 assists.

But he admits that he believes he can perform better in a more traditional offense. For the insatiable basketball mind, Basketball Prospectus’s Anthony Macri recently wrote an intricate post detailing Minnesota’s triangle offense and Flynn’s role in it.

“Me being a guy that likes to get up the floor with pick-and-rolls — a lot of things in the triangle are to come up, pass the ball and cut, and it’s really hard,” Flynn said. “But nobody said being in the N.B.A. was going to be easy. Everybody said it was going to be a tough transition, but it’s definitely tough. Definitely, tough.”


Rambis and the team president, David Kahn, are adamant that the triangle will be a better conduit for Flynn’s development. They are willing to take the growing pains for the finished, molded product.
“Any time, you ask a player to do something that they’re not comfortable with and haven’t done before or experienced with, there’s a good amount of irritation and frustration that goes along with it, and I understand that,” Rambis said. “He’ll get to that point. He’s already made huge advances where he’s making the right decisions and doing the right things with the basketball.”

Said Kahn: “We all know Jonny Flynn is a tremendous pick-and-roll guard. It’s in Jonny’s benefit to learn other parts of the game and not just rely exclusively on pick-and-roll basketball. Having said that, we would all be crazy if we also didn’t have some offense in there that plays to his strength of running the pick-and-roll.”

Kahn also pointed out that the triangle offense is used more often than publicly perceived and that even the Lakers stray from it late in games in favor of isolation plays and pick-and-rolls for Kobe Bryant.

“I think it’s been kind of a secret around the N.B.A. how many teams actually use portions of it, in terms of what they run,” Kahn said.

Meanwhile, the Timberwolves have started the season 3-21. Kahn braced himself for a tough year, looking to change the team’s collective mentality before going forward. They play in Utah against the Jazz on Monday night.

“Teams like the Lakers and the Bulls, they implemented that with veteran guys and they really had a top scorer on the outside and they were really good at it,” forward Kevin Love said. “We just need to keep going and keep growing as a team in the triangle offense.”


-------------------

Timberwolves: Mysterious Triangle
The Timberwolves have been remade on many levels, but the biggest change is a new offensive system with proven success -- when run by the right people.

By JERRY ZGODA, Star Tribune


Basketball is a relatively simple endeavor, but introduce the concept of geometry into its equation and heads explode, particularly those of sportswriters.

David Kahn promised his Timberwolves would run and run after he was introduced as the team's new basketball boss last spring. Eleven games and 10 consecutive losses into a fresh season, the Wolves are waiting for Kevin Love's first appearance and laboring to learn new coach Kurt Rambis' complex system of play that, depending on who you ask, may or may not be the renown triangle offense he learned under mentor Phil Jackson in Los Angeles.

"I probably never should have described it as the triangle," Rambis said. "I should have just termed it our 'flow' offense and that would have been the end of it."

Whatever you call it, Rambis calls the elements he has borrowed from Jackson -- who has won a record 10 NBA titles with an offense he learned from old-timer Tex Winter -- just a "small part of what we do" and estimates its inclusion at "less than 20 percent" of his team's offense.

Just don't tell that to his players, whose heads have twirled learning a style of play -- a passing offense predicated on the anachronistic notions of ball movement, self-sacrifice and reactive team play -- unlike any they've known all their lives.

"I think it is a triangle," rookie point guard Jonny Flynn said. "If you look at the Lakers and what they do, it's almost the exact same thing. They might run it a little differently because of the players they have and they're so used to running it. You wouldn't understand how complicated it is, especially for a guy like me who's used to his whole life being a guy off the bounce."

iamsteel
11-26-2010, 07:24 PM
Without counting the Rubio situation, the Wolves right now have:
1. The youngest team in the nba
2. Tons of cap room (nobody over 5 mil per)
3. Extra future 1st rd picks
4. Are currently staying close in almost every game
5. Good depth, athleticism, and 3pt shooting
6. The leading shot blocker
7. The leading rebounder

That's not bad compared to a year ago. Even with two likely starters injured, they are competing (Flynn, Webster). It's hard to complain with that, even though some people think we should have more (Al Jeff trade, drafting, etc...)

topdog
11-26-2010, 07:32 PM
alot of risks taking rubio than with taking other players. i like the rubio pick though i just meant the jurys still out. flynn was a bad pick no matter what way you spin it. the love for mayo swap was good (not sure if that was kahn or machale.) and the wes johnson pick was not the 'best player available' so he went off track there

When the pinpong balls never fall in your favor, sometimes you have to make your own luck. Rubio was considered the 2nd best player in that draft up until draft day. And again I will remind people that Kahn acquired that pick merely by giving up Foye and Miller.

Flynn has played one year. I can't say I'm a big fan of him or the pick, but give the kid a chance to develop. I would have been fine with just taking Collison at 20-whatever (I'm a UCLA fan ...or was) but who do you take at 6 then? Certainly not Hill and too high for Daye. There was so much parity beyond the top 5 that having a lottery pick didn't help much of anyone.

Love-Mayo was a McHale move. But the only way it works out is when you move Al to make court-time for Love. Ideally if they were going to build around Al you would have attempted to trade Mayo for Gallinari or Lopez and extra (since Mayo was concensus #3 pick).

I'm not sure who you want to say was available that was better than Wes. I consider a player's attitude/personality a component of his value so Cousins falls below Wes imo. Plus, Kahn had his plan for C, PF, and PG but was sorely lacking wings. And people shouldn't talk about drafting when people wouldn't shut up about taking Whiteside w/ a lottery pick.

The 2 moves I am not real high on are taking Flynn (though there is justification) and taking Hayward (but he made a nice trade to get that pick and a 2nd rounder "farm" pick). Webster was one of our best players in pre-season so once he's back I'm sure he'll show to be far more worthwhile than Luke "who's the giant albino?" Babbitt.

topdog
11-26-2010, 07:38 PM
Just for the record they are attempting to use the triangle, Im not even sure why you guys keep arguing against that. Its a bastardized piss-poor ineffective version of it, and it only constitutes about half of their offense but nontheless thats what they're trying to do. Thats actually one of their many problems is that you can't "kinda" use a offense, its pretty much all or none. That would be like running "parts of" the princeton offense or parts off D'Antoni's 7 seconds offense. Its ineffective and all it does is confuse the players. I know basketball man, trust me Im not just making stuff up....

-------------------------------


December 14, 2009, 4:57 pm
The Timberwolves’ Flynn and the Triangle Offense
By JONATHAN ABRAMS
Kurt Rambis and the Minnesota Timberwolves are bold in implementing components of the triangle offense, journeying where few others have, despite its success with the Los Angeles Lakers and the Chicago Bulls.

Its success in Minnesota is largely predicated on the progress of the rookie point guard Jonny Flynn. Flynn played in a pick-and-roll-dominated system at Syracuse University, where he was free to drive to the basket after screens were set for him. By all accounts, Flynn is playing well for a rookie thrown into the thick of things, averaging 13.7 points and 4.3 assists.

But he admits that he believes he can perform better in a more traditional offense. For the insatiable basketball mind, Basketball Prospectus’s Anthony Macri recently wrote an intricate post detailing Minnesota’s triangle offense and Flynn’s role in it.

“Me being a guy that likes to get up the floor with pick-and-rolls — a lot of things in the triangle are to come up, pass the ball and cut, and it’s really hard,” Flynn said. “But nobody said being in the N.B.A. was going to be easy. Everybody said it was going to be a tough transition, but it’s definitely tough. Definitely, tough.”

Rambis and the team president, David Kahn, are adamant that the triangle will be a better conduit for Flynn’s development. They are willing to take the growing pains for the finished, molded product.
“Any time, you ask a player to do something that they’re not comfortable with and haven’t done before or experienced with, there’s a good amount of irritation and frustration that goes along with it, and I understand that,” Rambis said. “He’ll get to that point. He’s already made huge advances where he’s making the right decisions and doing the right things with the basketball.”

Said Kahn: “We all know Jonny Flynn is a tremendous pick-and-roll guard. It’s in Jonny’s benefit to learn other parts of the game and not just rely exclusively on pick-and-roll basketball. Having said that, we would all be crazy if we also didn’t have some offense in there that plays to his strength of running the pick-and-roll.”

Kahn also pointed out that the triangle offense is used more often than publicly perceived and that even the Lakers stray from it late in games in favor of isolation plays and pick-and-rolls for Kobe Bryant.

“I think it’s been kind of a secret around the N.B.A. how many teams actually use portions of it, in terms of what they run,” Kahn said.

Meanwhile, the Timberwolves have started the season 3-21. Kahn braced himself for a tough year, looking to change the team’s collective mentality before going forward. They play in Utah against the Jazz on Monday night.

“Teams like the Lakers and the Bulls, they implemented that with veteran guys and they really had a top scorer on the outside and they were really good at it,” forward Kevin Love said. “We just need to keep going and keep growing as a team in the triangle offense.”

Rambis said over the offseason that it was a "mistake" using the term "triangle." The Wolves don't yet have the personal to run the triangle effectively all the time. A drastically-improved Darko could help that. I have watched plenty enough games to see the difference between the Lakers' offense and the Wolves'. The article you posted expresses what I just did - the Wolves use elements of the triangle. I wish the Pistons had run the triangle because I really think they could've proved the whole "it's only effective w/ a Jordan/Kobe" argument wrong.

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 07:54 PM
Rambis said over the offseason that it was a "mistake" using the term "triangle." The Wolves don't yet have the personal to run the triangle effectively all the time. A drastically-improved Darko could help that. I have watched plenty enough games to see the difference between the Lakers' offense and the Wolves'. The article you posted expresses what I just did - the Wolves use elements of the triangle. I wish the Pistons had run the triangle because I really think they could've proved the whole "it's only effective w/ a Jordan/Kobe" argument wrong.


Thats a interesting thought. I don't know, to me its only effective if you have superstar that demands a double in the post. The triangle really gets going once they double down, you kick out, and the ball swings. I've watched some Wolves games I can see what they're trying to do but IMO they'd be best served by a nonstop fastbreak offense like B Scott implemented in Jersey and NO. If Darko's gonna be blocking shots that should be your fastbreak starter right there, no need to bring the ball up and set up.

I'll tell you this if your boy Rubio does indeed come over next year if they're still attempting to run the triangle in ANY shape or form we gonna be listening to Kurt Rhambis commentate on NBA tv!!!

topdog
11-26-2010, 07:59 PM
Thats a interesting thought. I don't know, to me its only effective if you have superstar that demands a double in the post. The triangle really gets going once they double down, you kick out, and the ball swings. I've watched some Wolves games I can see what they're trying to do but IMO they'd be best served by a nonstop fastbreak offense like B Scott implemented in Jersey and NO. If Darko's gonna be blocking shots that should be your fastbreak starter right there, no need to bring the ball up and set up.

I'll tell you this if your boy Rubio does indeed come over next year if they're still attempting to run the triangle in ANY shape or form we gonna be listening to Kurt Rhambis commentate on NBA tv!!!

Nice.:p

The idea, supposedly, is that we try to push the pace but then "flow" into an offense with elements of the triangle (eventually I'm thinking a full-fledged triangle). Honestly, the Wolves have played better in the half court than in transition this year. Darko's blocks aren't the throw-it-down-the-court variety but more just ball-deadening. More often, it is when Bassy and Brewer are in that we get to running and they do not finish too terribly well.

topdog
11-26-2010, 08:00 PM
So, Hawkeye, feel better with a breather? :D

Evolution23
11-26-2010, 08:07 PM
They are 4-12. Enough said!

topdog
11-26-2010, 08:20 PM
They are 4-12. Enough said!

And Landry Fields is the GOAT, right? Knicks are .500 after spending a fortune on Amare in the year of the resurrection!

Dumars is a genius because he won a championship? ...oh wait! His team sucks this year! ...and last year... Record is only one component of what makes a good GM/team. Luck is another. And insight is a third.

rickshaw
11-26-2010, 08:21 PM
When the pinpong balls never fall in your favor, sometimes you have to make your own luck. Rubio was considered the 2nd best player in that draft up until draft day. And again I will remind people that Kahn acquired that pick merely by giving up Foye and Miller.

Flynn has played one year. I can't say I'm a big fan of him or the pick, but give the kid a chance to develop. I would have been fine with just taking Collison at 20-whatever (I'm a UCLA fan ...or was) but who do you take at 6 then? Certainly not Hill and too high for Daye. There was so much parity beyond the top 5 that having a lottery pick didn't help much of anyone.

Love-Mayo was a McHale move. But the only way it works out is when you move Al to make court-time for Love. Ideally if they were going to build around Al you would have attempted to trade Mayo for Gallinari or Lopez and extra (since Mayo was concensus #3 pick).

I'm not sure who you want to say was available that was better than Wes. I consider a player's attitude/personality a component of his value so Cousins falls below Wes imo. Plus, Kahn had his plan for C, PF, and PG but was sorely lacking wings. And people shouldn't talk about drafting when people wouldn't shut up about taking Whiteside w/ a lottery pick.

The 2 moves I am not real high on are taking Flynn (though there is justification) and taking Hayward (but he made a nice trade to get that pick and a 2nd rounder "farm" pick). Webster was one of our best players in pre-season so once he's back I'm sure he'll show to be far more worthwhile than Luke "who's the giant albino?" Babbitt.

i like the rubio pick im just saying theres no results/cant really see if it was good or bad. so you cant say it was a good pick or bad one.

im not a big wes fan, he was 22/23 when drafted while cousins was 19? and has much more potential, and a athletic scoring big would look great next to love. and who i was responding too was talking about best available, not drafting for need.

iCOOKiE MONSTER
11-26-2010, 08:40 PM
I wanna see rubio in the NBA

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 09:28 PM
They are 4-12. Enough said!

how is that not expected when they have Flynn and Webster out so far, and they are the youngest team in the NBA with 10 new players?

No worries, they won't be this bad the whole season. They have held leads in most their recent games with less than 2 minutes to go. Young teams need to first figure out how to STAY in games. Next comes CLOSING

Its all a process

Hawkeye15
11-26-2010, 09:30 PM
i like the rubio pick im just saying theres no results/cant really see if it was good or bad. so you cant say it was a good pick or bad one.

im not a big wes fan, he was 22/23 when drafted while cousins was 19? and has much more potential, and a athletic scoring big would look great next to love. and who i was responding too was talking about best available, not drafting for need.

I think if Cousins didn't have his red flags, many scouts said he would have been the #1 pick. So you can say the same thing for 4 teams in all.

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 09:42 PM
Off topic I tell you what as much as I question Kahn I'd take him over Dumars any ol day of the dog-gone week. Im really starting to think Dumars is one of the luckiest/worst GMs ever. He gathers a bunch of players getting ran out of town for a one last hoorah, gets a giftwrapped championship courtesy of Karl Malones leg, and proceeds to make some of the worst trades, signings, AND coach hirings of the 21st century.

I look at their roster and literally wonder just what in the hell is he trying to accomplish? They literally have two of each player playing the same way. Undersize pg's, off screen sg's, lanky sf's, and hustling offensively challenged bigs. Stuckey/Bynum, Prince/Daye. Rip/Gordon. Wallace/Maxiel..... :cry:

specialiststeve
11-26-2010, 09:51 PM
Those of you who believe he is braindead are acuatualy on life support and not in touch or haven't seen them play this year. Although their record has much to be desired they are a MUCH better team this year and have given the Lakers, Spurs, and Thunder ALL they could handle. Let's see -- the cream of the Western division.
The draft's have been intersting but still is in the evaluation stage as he has only had 2 and Johnson has been solid and has star qualities. Flynn has yet to be a factor but we will see by the end of the year. All signs point to Rubio coming over after the lockout :(.
Milicic has been great and by some NBA experts has been one of the best centers in the NBA this year. Especially the past couple of weeks. I have a hard time saying that but check the numbers they support it.
The Wolves are better defensively, longer, better rebounding, better shooting and have a deeper bench. Are they the Lakers - NO but they have made big strides in the last year and much has to do with the roster makeover that Kahn has been responsible for.

Sixerlover
11-26-2010, 09:59 PM
Milicic has been great and by some NBA experts has been one of the best centers in the NBA this year. Especially the past couple of weeks. I have a hard time saying that but check the numbers they support it.


LOVE to see those experts. Outside of his last 3 games he has been an extremely mediocre, middle of the pack center. He is far from one of the best centers in the league this year (6.7 pts and 5.4 boards). Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

knickerbockerny
11-26-2010, 10:17 PM
There is a method to Kahn's madness, the selection of Rubio and Flynn back to back left me starching my head. But him committing highway robbery on the Heat for Beasley makes up for the little mistakes he has made.

Kahn has literally created a team where everyone has a point to prove. Just about their whole team are former lottery picks with major talent who have not fulfilled their potentials, but are ready to.

The Al Jefferson trade was needed, addition by subtraction. Minny has a very balanced team now, what they need more than anything now is to grow together. Kahn has a team now that he should keep as is.

Sports Illustrator
11-26-2010, 10:26 PM
I can't really blame Kahn for the moves he's made. I do think he could have gotten more value for Al Jefferson and didn't have to trade too much for Webster but other than that, he's done well.

Kahn was in a difficult position when he had the 4th and 5th overall picks. There weren't many great options at other positions. PG was the positions available and he went with the best players available. My guess is that Flynn had a better workout than Curry and Jennings did for the Timberwolves, which is why Flynn was selected.

I really can't fully comment on whether or not that Rubio pick was a good pick. If he knew Rubio couldn't play with them and still took Rubio, then drafting him was a really bad move as there were still other great Point Guards on board.

topdog
11-26-2010, 10:27 PM
Let me ask: How many of your favorite teams have the league's best shotblocker and the league's best rebounder?

Answer: none - they're both on the Wolves

topdog
11-26-2010, 10:35 PM
im not a big wes fan, he was 22/23 when drafted while cousins was 19? and has much more potential, and a athletic scoring big would look great next to love. and who i was responding too was talking about best available, not drafting for need.

I should have probably left out the position part because my point in the 1st place is he would have been 3rd on my draft board behind Wall and Favors (both of whom Kahn should have and probably would've taken if available). If Cousins had a better demeanor/reputation, he'd be 3 but then the Wolves wouldn't have had a shot at him anyways. Whiteside at 30 probably should have been a consideration but Wes is an obvious pick at 4 for me.

Wes being 23 doesn't really matter. If I remember right, he came to the game late so he hasn't had as many years as other guys and still has room to grow. People compare him to Marion and I think that will hold as a good comparison - he looks to be a guy who can shoot, defend, rebound, do whatever, very very well but not at a level where people call him a certified "star." Roy was pretty old too when he got drafted and, injuries aside, I think that worked out just fine.

knickerbockerny
11-26-2010, 10:38 PM
Let me ask: How many of your favorite teams have the league's best shotblocker and the league's best rebounder?

Answer: none - they're both on the Wolves

As long as Kahn keeps the core of the team (Beasley, Love, Darko, Johnson, Flynn, Webster) in tact, to perfect the system, bond and grow together I predict a major improvement next season. Plus they can finally put the Rubio situation to bed (coming or not), and will have another top pick.

Just look at the Western Conference, Phoenix and Denver will both be rebuilding as early as next season and Portland is injury riddled.

nycericanguy
11-26-2010, 10:48 PM
How about we don't make this thread while MIN has one of the worst records in the NBA =)

MurderousPress
11-26-2010, 11:06 PM
First off, if you are a rebuilding team, you draft best available, period, regardless of position.
They drafted Rubio knowing he was probably not going to be able to get out of his buyout after he fell outside the top 3. They had Flynn next on their board. They signed Sessions, to get a 2nd PG. If you remember, Sessions was actually a very wanted FA that summer.

Darko was signed for less than $5 million a year. Please go through all 30 teams, pull up their starting center, and look at the salaries. Darko's play of recent also suggests that it may end being a great deal. 25 year old 7 footers who are athletic tend to get deal after deal dude.

I am not defending the Flynn pick necessarily. But I am telling you proper draft strategy for their situation at the time.

Homerism doesn't come into play in my posts. Sorry dude, I am one of the few who is actually subjective pretty much all the time.

*objective*

I like the Darko signing, now at least. Anyways, do you think another team would have paid more than the vet min? Did Khan have to pay that much to keep him from going back to Europe? It's not a bad deal at all, but do you think they could have paid less?

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 12:14 AM
I can't really blame Kahn for the moves he's made. I do think he could have gotten more value for Al Jefferson and didn't have to trade too much for Webster but other than that, he's done well.

Kahn was in a difficult position when he had the 4th and 5th overall picks. There weren't many great options at other positions. PG was the positions available and he went with the best players available. My guess is that Flynn had a better workout than Curry and Jennings did for the Timberwolves, which is why Flynn was selected.

I really can't fully comment on whether or not that Rubio pick was a good pick. If he knew Rubio couldn't play with them and still took Rubio, then drafting him was a really bad move as there were still other great Point Guards on board.

I hate to correct my boss on this site haha, but the Wolves had #5,6, and Curry refused to work out for them.
But the rest of the post is pretty much what many Wolves fans think

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 12:19 AM
*objective*

I like the Darko signing, now at least. Anyways, do you think another team would have paid more than the vet min? Did Khan have to pay that much to keep him from going back to Europe? It's not a bad deal at all, but do you think they could have paid less?

I honestly have no idea man, and I don't think anyone outside the GM's in the NBA could answer that. I know Kahn and Rambis had to go to visit Milicic in Europe to get it done.
Milicic was so done with the NBA when the Wolves traded for him, its not even funny. I would guess if circumstances were different, they could have signed him for less. But I think they may have thrown that deal at him (which still isn't much money btw), to give him confidence that he was wanted

My post is all speculation. In all reality, I have no clue man.

Sports Illustrator
11-27-2010, 12:15 PM
I hate to correct my boss on this site haha, but the Wolves had #5,6, and Curry refused to work out for them.
But the rest of the post is pretty much what many Wolves fans think

I stand corrected! I do remember Curry not wanting to workout. Of course, the 4th overall pick was Tyreke Evans.

In regards to your other post about Darko, his salary is not too bad compared to the other centers in the NBA. I do think he might of been worth less as many teams aren't too high on Darko but for what its worth, Darko is really producing for the T-Wolves right now.

I also forgot to mention the Wesley Johnson pick was a very good pick. I just hope the coach doesn't start Webster over him since I do believe Wesley Johnson has a brighter future and a higher ceiling.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 12:17 PM
I stand corrected! I do remember Curry not wanting to workout. Of course, the 4th overall pick was Tyreke Evans.

In regards to your other post about Darko, his salary is not too bad compared to the other centers in the NBA. I do think he might of been worth less as many teams aren't too high on Darko but for what its worth, Darko is really producing for the T-Wolves right now.

I also forgot to mention the Wesley Johnson pick was a very good pick. I just hope the coach doesn't start Webster over him since I do believe Wesley Johnson has a brighter future and a higher ceiling.

agreed. I thought Webster looked great in the preseason, and even though they are the same age, Wesley is showing a great stroke, can jump out of the gym, and is a very good defender. He needs to be forcefed minutes. I think he could be a Shawn Marion type, with a better shot if he develops properly.