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View Full Version : Better sidekick: Pau or Pippen?



Stuckey#3
11-24-2010, 11:04 PM
They are comparable stastistically. Pippen was smaller (played SF mostly), but was also stronger and more athletic. Gasol IMO has a better basketball IQ. Gasol in his prime is averaging 22/12/1.9blk, Pippen averaged 22/8/2.4steals in his prime. Both play clutch in the post-season. I think Pippen has the edge because he carried the Bulls without Jordan for a while... I don't know if Pau has the same leadership capability. Pau has a good shot at his first 3-peat this year. Pippen was the #2 man for six championship teams.

asandhu23
11-24-2010, 11:05 PM
Pippen

tangent12
11-24-2010, 11:09 PM
Pippen

Khalifa21
11-24-2010, 11:11 PM
Pippen

Stuckey#3
11-24-2010, 11:19 PM
Damn... I guess it goes without saying.

bigsams50
11-24-2010, 11:20 PM
Pippen

News24/7
11-24-2010, 11:20 PM
Pippen, not even close lol.

COOLbeans
11-24-2010, 11:21 PM
Pau Gasol

I live in the L.A. market, and this guy pretty much destroys every Big that he's matched against. Maybe it was the time that the Chicago dyansty was in, but Pippen was never dominating. He was great, but he didn't dominate the game like Pau Gasol does now.

News24/7
11-24-2010, 11:24 PM
Pau Gasol

I live in the L.A. market, and this guy pretty much destroys every Big that he's matched against. Maybe it was the time that the Chicago dyansty was in, but Pippen was never dominating. He was great, but never a dominating player like Pau Gasol.

Did you even watch the 90s (assuming you were born by then) and early 2000s?

aussie
11-24-2010, 11:24 PM
this should be in the comparisons forum

lakers4sho
11-24-2010, 11:24 PM
Pippen

News24/7
11-24-2010, 11:25 PM
Pippen

55 wins, bogus call away from a ECF berth

and was 1 win away from the finals in 2000.

Stuckey#3
11-24-2010, 11:26 PM
this should be in the comparisons forum

I didn't know there was a comparison forum. My bad. Anyway it is somewhat valid due to all the MVP talk Gasol is getting,

goose15
11-24-2010, 11:27 PM
Pippen

Angel2Maverick
11-24-2010, 11:27 PM
Pippen but Gasol is looking strong, I mean if he keeps this level of play don't be surprised to see this sidekick win the MVP

Edit: Same would go for Pippen but him beating out Jordan is impossible

COOLbeans
11-24-2010, 11:29 PM
Did you even watch the 90s (assuming you were born by then) and early 2000s?

that's a stupid question. obviously I watched Pippen play if I have an opinion about both players. :facepalm:

_KB24_
11-24-2010, 11:29 PM
Pippen, by a longshot. One of the most complete basketball players this league has ever seen. Don't think we'll ever see another frame like his with the way he could play and gel with his teammates.

MagicBucsSox
11-24-2010, 11:30 PM
Pau Gasol

I live in the L.A. market, and this guy pretty much destroys every Big that he's matched against. Maybe it was the time that the Chicago dyansty was in, but Pippen was never dominating. He was great, but he didn't dominate the game like Pau Gasol does now.

he "dominates" because he has a certain someone on his team. How much was he "dominating" in memphis? how many playoff appearances has he lead a team to ,yet alone won w/o Kobe?

dispite what people say it was Scottie who guarded the best perimeter players for the bulls. he lead them to the ECF game7 w/o mike

case closed

COOLbeans
11-24-2010, 11:35 PM
^^ that's a dumb argument since Pau Gasol DID lead the Grizzlies to the playoffs in 04, 05, and 06. I love Scottie Pippen, but Gasol is a better player. Some of you are suffering from nostalgia..

I know it's 2010 and our favorite players are all reitired, but Gasol is a top player and a better side kick for Kobe than Pippen was for Michael. Michael was simply much better than Kobe Bryant which is a whole other argument.

Squad13
11-24-2010, 11:35 PM
Gasol is a very good player, one of the better players of his era. Pippen is one of the best players in nba history.

Squad13
11-24-2010, 11:38 PM
^^ that's a dumb argument since Pau Gasol DID lead the Grizzlies to the playoffs in 04, 05, and 06. I love Scottie Pippen, but Gasol is a better player. Some of you are suffering from nostalgia..

I know it's 2010 and our favorite players are all reitired, but Gasol is a top player and a better side kick for Kobe than Pippen was for Michael. Michael was simply much better than Kobe Bryant which is a whole other argument.

I'm willing to bet you weren't old enough to even appreciate just how good Pippen was. He's one of the most underrated players because he played with the greatest player ever.

COOLbeans
11-24-2010, 11:38 PM
Gasol is a very good player, one of the better players of his era. Pippen is one of the best players in nba history.

I agree, but 10 years from now, we'll be saying how great Pau Gasol was too. If they win 2 or 3 more championships, we'll be talking history for Pau Gasol as well

JnasD
11-24-2010, 11:39 PM
The Answer is Pip.

conway429
11-24-2010, 11:42 PM
I agree, but 10 years from now, we'll be saying how great Pau Gasol was too. If they win 2 or 3 more championships, we'll be talking history for Pau Gasol as well

yeah right.
Pau Gasol will never be in the conversation as one of the best players in NBA history, whether or not Kobe wins a few more titles.

heyman321
11-24-2010, 11:42 PM
Reggie Evans

COOLbeans
11-24-2010, 11:43 PM
I'm willing to bet you weren't old enough to even appreciate just how good Pippen was. He's one of the most underrated players because he played with the greatest player ever.

lol you're willing to bet? i wonder how old you are. :eyebrow:

I saw Pippen play for many years and he is a GREAT player, but so is Pau Gasol and we'll be singing his historic praises too if the Lakers win at least 2 more championships. Can you deny him then?

John Walls Era
11-24-2010, 11:44 PM
Pippen. But its not like both teams were bad, both teams had solid players. Also Rodman was ****ing insane (on and off the court), so its not like there wasn't a major 3rd guy.

tredigs
11-24-2010, 11:45 PM
Pippen's a better all around player than Gasol, but it actually is fairly close as to who was (is now) more important to their team. I think both were absolute 100% necessities who could've only been replaced by 2-3 other players in the league.

I also think Pau is the most important player to the Lakers now (though both are virtually irreplaceable) - I think that's been the case since last season.

COOLbeans
11-24-2010, 11:47 PM
yeah right.
Pau Gasol will never be in the conversation as one of the best players in NBA history, whether or not Kobe wins a few more titles.

where have you been? :facepalm:

Kobe didn't beat the Boston Celtics by himself lol

PLAYERS FAN
11-24-2010, 11:55 PM
Pippen! Leading the Bulls to 55 wins with Pete Myers as your starting SG! They probably could have won the championship if they had Michael Finley or semi star , instead of Pete Myers!

rabueed
11-25-2010, 12:08 AM
Pippen, without a doubt. Arguing this is futile. It's baseless and irrational.

ink
11-25-2010, 12:11 AM
I didn't know there was a comparison forum. My bad. Anyway it is somewhat valid due to all the MVP talk Gasol is getting,

It's a very valid thread idea. Gasol has been amazing for the Lakers. I still say Pippen, but give Pau a few years and then we'll see.

I'll move this to the comparisons forum for you.

Hustlenomics
11-25-2010, 12:43 AM
Pippen.

JordansBulls
11-25-2010, 01:29 AM
Pippen's a better all around player than Gasol, but it actually is fairly close as to who was (is now) more important to their team. I think both were absolute 100% necessities who could've only been replaced by 2-3 other players in the league.

I also think Pau is the most important player to the Lakers now (though both are virtually irreplaceable) - I think that's been the case since last season.

Agreed. Gasol brings more impact as far as numbers and production while Pippen brings more intangibles to the table that can't be measured by stats.

Raph12
11-25-2010, 02:35 AM
Easily Pippen, a better comparison would be Gasol to D-Rod...

JordansBulls
11-25-2010, 11:26 AM
Easily Pippen, a better comparison would be Gasol to D-Rod...

No it wouldn't. You arent winning a title with Rodman as your 2nd best player. He produces no offense.

KnicksorBust
11-25-2010, 01:03 PM
Personally I'm surprised it's so one-sided. What really makes it a debate to me is that I would much much prefer to have an elite big sidekick than an elite wing sidekick... especially in the modern era where Brook Lopez gets talked about as a top 3 center. Pippen's obviously the better player so I have to ask myself does his value outweigh the advantage of having an elite big sidekick?

Raph12
11-25-2010, 03:06 PM
No it wouldn't. You arent winning a title with Rodman as your 2nd best player. He produces no offense.

It would still be a closer comparison, Pippen was a player who led his team to the Semis and dominated in MJ's absence, while Gasol was swept out of the 1st round in Memphis all three years they made it.

LA's success has as much to do with the role players as it does with Pau, trade Pau for Bogut and the Buck will still get killed in the playoffs while the Lakers will still go back to the Finals.

Pippen = Greatest 2nd Option of All Time (to this point)

JordansBulls
11-25-2010, 03:23 PM
It would still be a closer comparison, Pippen was a player who led his team to the Semis and dominated in MJ's absence, while Gasol was swept out of the 1st round in Memphis all three years they made it.

LA's success has as much to do with the role players as it does with Pau, trade Pau for Bogut and the Buck will still get killed in the playoffs while the Lakers will still go back to the Finals.

Pippen = Greatest 2nd Option of All Time (to this point)

Pippen led a team to the 2nd round when the Cavs in 1994 were missing it's two best players in round 1 and who were 3-1 against us that season. Pau for instance led his team to the playoffs 3 years in a row.

And no if you trade Pau for Bogut the Lakers get significantly worse. There is a reason why Pau led the team in Win shares and PER last year and in Win shares the year before.

Raph12
11-25-2010, 03:54 PM
Pippen led a team to the 2nd round when the Cavs in 1994 were missing it's two best players in round 1 and who were 3-1 against us that season. Pau for instance led his team to the playoffs 3 years in a row.

And no if you trade Pau for Bogut the Lakers get significantly worse. There is a reason why Pau led the team in Win shares and PER last year and in Win shares the year before.

You mean "got swept in the 1st round of the playoffs" 3 years in a row.

Pippen is one of the greatest on-ball defenders the league has ever seen and he can score in bunches as well. He did an admirable job in Jordan's absence and had Jordan not come back, the Bulls would still be competitive without him.

The Lakers have had great role players in the last three years, guys like: Bynum, Odom, Ariza, Fisher, Brown, Artest and now Barnes and Ratliff. Without them, this team would not be nearly as successful as they have been. Those stats you mentioned are important, but despite Pau's efficiency, the dropoff between him and Bogut is not great. Pau would not make the Bucks that much better, they'd be slightly better offensively, but their defense would take a big hit... Pau is not a leader, he's a great 2nd option, but nowhere near Pippen.

JordansBulls
11-25-2010, 04:39 PM
You mean "got swept in the 1st round of the playoffs" 3 years in a row.

Pippen is one of the greatest on-ball defenders the league has ever seen and he can score in bunches as well. He did an admirable job in Jordan's absence and had Jordan not come back, the Bulls would still be competitive without him.

The Lakers have had great role players in the last three years, guys like: Bynum, Odom, Ariza, Fisher, Brown, Artest and now Barnes and Ratliff. Without them, this team would not be nearly as successful as they have been. Those stats you mentioned are important, but despite Pau's efficiency, the dropoff between him and Bogut is not great. Pau would not make the Bucks that much better, they'd be slightly better offensively, but their defense would take a big hit... Pau is not a leader, he's a great 2nd option, but nowhere near Pippen.

Yes Pippen was good, but the reason the Bulls were successful had more to do with Grant than Pippen. Grant finished 2nd on the team in Win Shares in both 1992 and 1993 and in the playoffs in 1994 he was 1st while Pippen was 3rd.
And the Bulls once they lost Grant the next year were at .500 until MJ came back. So yes the team would have been competitive as far as making the playoffs but nothing more. And that is usually the case when you don't have another allstar on the team.

Gasol was losing to teams far superior, but the interesting thing about him is that he was leading his teams to better records than other superstars in the league at the time in Kobe, Mcgrady, Kidd, Iverson, Garnett, etc.

And Gasol is a leader, you don't led your national team to a gold medal without being a leader.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-26-2010, 02:21 AM
Yes Pippen was good, but the reason the Bulls were successful had more to do with Grant than Pippen. Grant finished 2nd on the team in Win Shares in both 1992 and 1993 and in the playoffs in 1994 he was 1st while Pippen was 3rd.
And the Bulls once they lost Grant the next year were at .500 until MJ came back. So yes the team would have been competitive as far as making the playoffs but nothing more. And that is usually the case when you don't have another allstar on the team.

Gasol was losing to teams far superior, but the interesting thing about him is that he was leading his teams to better records than other superstars in the league at the time in Kobe, Mcgrady, Kidd, Iverson, Garnett, etc.

And Gasol is a leader, you don't led your national team to a gold medal without being a leader.

So Grant was better than Pippen because he had more win shares? Then I guess the Grizzlies were lead by James Posey in 03-04 when they made the playoffs and won 50 games because he lead them in win shares over Gasol. Then Shane Battier and Mike Miller were both more important then Gasol in 04-05 because they both had more win shares than him in that season.

Pippens defense puts him over Gasol. But Pau could fit with any offensive scheme or team. Its close, but Pippen was great.

Rentzias
11-26-2010, 01:58 PM
Are we talking about them straight up as players or as complementary pieces to a superstar here? If it's the 2nd one, then I don't know where discussing how well they did on their own factors into the equation.

Rentzias
11-26-2010, 03:49 PM
Pippen's obviously the better player so I have to ask myself does his value outweigh the advantage of having an elite big sidekick?

I would say so since Jordan and the Bulls were dominant without an elite big sidekick. Anecdotally, from Ron Harper: "Everybody talks about MJ first, but Pip had a more all-around game. Defense, offensive rebounds and defensive boards: Pip made the game easier for us to play."

As a sidekick and someone Chuck Daly called a "fill-in the blanks guy," Pippen could cover 1 through 4 on the floor, could handle the point, and cover for you on both sides of the ball. An elite big is complementary in a very limited way, and the fact that Pippen could complement Jordan in every way possible makes him the better sidekick.

And :facepalm: to the guy who tried to put Gasol individually in the same breath as Pippen.