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AlexTmz2
11-24-2010, 12:30 PM
Sports Illustrated
By:Michael Rosenberg

LeBron James has never requested a trade. He has never been linked to performance-enhancing drugs. He has never gone to jail for running a dogfighting operation. He has never run into the stands in the middle of an NBA game to separate a fan from his shirt, or been accused of giving insider information to bookies, or been arrested for beating his girlfriend, or signed the Jonas Brothers to a record deal, or put you on hold and transferred you to a guy in India who can't help you, or sold cocaine-shooting semi-automatic weapons out of the trunk of his car.

And yet, at this moment, LeBron James is the most hated athlete in American sports. Millions of red-blooded Americans who saw "Pacers 93, Heat 77" Monday night (in Miami!) experienced a visceral joy.

And my question is: why?

I don't mean the hate is unjustified. Or justified, for that matter. I'm not here to judge America's judgment -- heck, I've been quite critical of LeBron myself. But let's pause for a second, put the hate on the stove to keep it warm, and think about this.

Why?

One of my sports writing mentors, Bill Shakespeare of the Stratford-On-Avon News-On-Newspaper, once bemoaned: "My only love, sprung from my only hate!" It was great stuff on a tight deadline -- off a rounders game, I believe. Anyway, our greatest collective hate should help explain our widespread love.

If we did not love sports, we would not hate LeBron James. He has not sinned against society. He has sinned against competition. And this sounds backward, but it's true: If he had sinned against society, we would have an easier time forgiving him. We all sin against society at some point. In sports, competition is everything.

The best players in the NBA hold a unique place in our sporting culture. They provide a spectacle that surpasses anything any individual in any other sport can provide.

There is not much difference between watching Albert Pujols and Ryan Howard -- Pujols is a better player, but you could argue Howard is more fun to watch, and anyway, the visual difference between a great player hitting a home run and a good player hitting one is pretty small. Football is a game of highlights, but they are team highlights. The most famous players, the quarterbacks, are generally not the fastest or the highest leapers, and the guys who are the fastest and jump the highest often touch the ball just a few times a game.

Hockey stars like Alexander Ovechkin are mesmerizing if you know the game, but most Americans don't really know the game, and anyway, they are on the bench more than they are on the ice.

Basketball is different. We are more emotionally invested in individuals than in teams. And as a result, there is a greater capacity for betrayal. The Seattle Mariners and Texas Rangers were both better after Alex Rodriguez left -- not because he left, but just because that happens in baseball. It doesn't happen in the NBA.

When James left Cleveland to form a "superteam" (it sounds so funny now, doesn't it?) with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, he wasn't just giving Cleveland the finger or toying with us on national television. He was telling us that the entire enterprise doesn't matter -- the struggle, the connection with a city, any of it. The spoils are all that matter.

The irony is that LeBron James' desire to win a championship with his buddies might keep him from winning a championship. I am not counting out the Heat, in future seasons or even this year. But it is clear now what should have been clear in July: They don't need Chris Bosh


Zach Lowe: Key reason for the Heat's recent struggles

Bosh was an All-Star in Toronto, and he is a better player than what he has shown in Miami. (He has actually played better lately -- and most importantly, rebounded better.) But a team with LeBron James and Dwyane Wade does not need another guy whose best skill is scoring 20-plus points per game. Miami needs rebounders and defenders and a savvy veteran point guard and a couple of shooters to knock down three-pointers when James and Wade draw double-teams.

Of course Pat Riley knows this. He must. Riley is still best known as the coach of the Showtime Lakers, but he didn't build those teams -- Jerry West did. Riley, the architect, believes in brick and mortar: He made near-stars of tough guys Charles Oakley and Anthony Mason and spent a decade building around Alonzo Mourning, one of the toughest stars in recent NBA history.

In a salary-cap league, if you have James and Wade on your team, you don't offer $110 million to Chris Bosh. You sprinkle that money around to role players who can play off those two guys.

But Riley couldn't do that, because all these guys were free agents together, and they all wanted to play together. Riley could not pick and choose. In order to get James, he needed Wade and Bosh. These three grew up in the star system of American basketball, and it is ingrained in their heads that stars are what matter. To that way of thinking, two stars are better than one and three are better than two. The other guys are just that: Other Guys. They are replaceable parts.

If James is paying attention, he should realize by now, the other guys do matter. The guys on the bench matter. The wide-eyed kids wearing oversized jerseys in the upper reaches of the arena matter. The yuppies paying too much money to sit courtside matter. The guys who got cut from the team matter, and the guys who played college ball but couldn't get a sniff of the NBA matter, and the guys who sat on the bench for their high school teams matter. Without them, LeBron James is just a guy doing cool stuff against nobody in an empty gym, for nothing.

And maybe that is at the heart of the hate. Maybe that is everything and the only thing -- the one truth we all must believe in if we're going to be modern-day sports fans. LeBron tried to circumvent that truth. He went for a shortcut. It's a sports sin we can't forgive, and won't forgive, unless some other guys whip Miami in the playoffs next spring, and maybe the spring after that. Then LeBron James will have served his penance.

In our minds, LeBron James tried to beat competition. It's the one victory we never want to see.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/11/23/lebron.hatred/index.html

AlexTmz2
11-24-2010, 12:33 PM
Found this nice article on the sports illustrated site. It really caught my attention. I decided to share it with you guys and I put in bold what I thought was intresting. Check it out.

xbrackattackx
11-24-2010, 12:39 PM
Not a bad read at all.

nycericanguy
11-24-2010, 12:40 PM
"LeBron James tried to beat competition"

Sums it up pretty well for me, aside from all the other stuff like how we went about it, etc... that's the big reason I don't like him anymore. He wanted the easy way out, he tried to kill competition, and I hope he fails.

Hawkeye15
11-24-2010, 12:41 PM
this can stay open if people are civil. Its not a bad read, please keep things constructive.

giventofly
11-24-2010, 12:47 PM
Excellent article.

Fukudome
11-24-2010, 12:49 PM
thought it was a good read. doesn't really bash the heat too much, more so stays on topic of a semi-logical, yet satirical/ironic idea

lvlheaded
11-24-2010, 12:58 PM
Good article but this has to be said...Another LeBron thread :facepalm:

Giaps
11-24-2010, 01:00 PM
For me personally, it wasn't just because he didn't come to my team. That was probably at the bottom of the list. It was to who he went, the how and the why. For it to be in Miami to team up with Wade and Bosh, to become Robin to Wade's Batman and seemingly take the easy way out by riding coat tails... it showed me he is not the player I thought he was and it disgusted me. He had the chance to go down as one of the all-time greats and he can't now no matter much he wins... won't change that to me.

On top of this it was on national TV (who does that???) while he played us all for fools trying to tell us he decided that morning when everything I know tells me he's known for a very long time and he didn't even have the balls to answer the phone calls of the Cavs to let them know he wouldn't be back. They found out like everyone else. It's selfish and I won't root for him anymore.

Quite the opposite.

Baller1
11-24-2010, 01:02 PM
Pretty interesting article. I hope people can keep it civil though, so it can stay open.

RaiderLakersA's
11-24-2010, 01:03 PM
The article is correct that if the Heat were to get smashed in the playoffs over the next several years, the court of public opinion would eventually sway in LeBron's favor. America was founded by underdogs and renegades, people who insist on their freedoms as the primary milieu by which individual success can be achieved. However ill-conceived "The Decision" was, the bottomline is that all LeBron was doing was exercising his God-given right to be more of a success than he had been previously. Eventually, over time, especially after several years of defeat, everyone will gradually start to feel sympathy for LeBron never having won a ring. Doubt me? Wait for it.

ttam68
11-24-2010, 01:04 PM
ttam68 thinks theres probably certain other reasons people got sick of the guy. Lord ttam68 thinks you can probably guess what they are

Hawkeye15
11-24-2010, 01:05 PM
The article is correct that if the Heat were to get smashed in the playoffs over the next several years, the court of public opinion would eventually sway in the LeBron's favor. America was founded by underdogs and renegades, people who insist on their freedoms as the primary milieu by which success can be achieved. However ill-conceived "The Decision" was, the bottomline is that all LeBron was doing was exercising his God-given right to be more of a success than he had been previously. Eventually, over time, especially after several years of defeat, everyone will gradually start to feel sympathy for LeBron never having won a ring. Doubt me? Wait for it.

haha, as messed up as this is, it is how things work.

fadedmario
11-24-2010, 01:10 PM
His personality

Da Knicks
11-24-2010, 01:24 PM
I dont like that Lebron made a bunch of teams have hope for him, but at the same time I like that he made the nba more enjoyable. We need to have rivalries again and with him going to the heat, the knicks and heat battles will be fun to watch now that new york is coming back around. The knicks built a team perfect for him and he didnt realize it, the next wing player that comes to new york will be looked as a god. Lebron really dropped the ball and we will learn to forgive him and even cheer for him again. As long as he is a heat player I wont be able to cheer for him though, rivalry of past wont let me. I dislike him as much as i do the other douche from L.A. two arrogant players who stand for nothing but themselves when they should be the biggest role models.

Raph12
11-24-2010, 01:34 PM
this can stay open if people are civil. Its not a bad read, please keep things constructive.

People hate Lebron because he's a *****!...

Just playing lol, I don't hate him, I just didn't like the fact that he went to the only team with an established leader, who has better leadership skills than himself.

Teeboy1487
11-24-2010, 01:34 PM
To me, most fans (who teams were in the running for him) hate Lebron right now because he did not come to their team. That's the truth. If Lebron went to New York, he would have been beloved there. If he went to Chicago, he would have been beloved there. Hell, if he went to the Lakers somehow, he would have been beloved here.

I adore my Laker buddies but most of them hate Lebron because they think Lebron is somehow a threat to Kobe's stature in the nba. I don't hate him for that because he is far from it imo.

Anyway, Lebron's best chance of being "loved" and "respected" by most casual and hardcore basketballs fans was for him to stay in Cleveland. That was his best PR move imo. He chose to follow "his" desires and join up with his fellow superstars and friends. I can understand why people hate him but in reality, Lebron had the right to make any "decision" he wanted. It was his right as a free agent.

However, make no mistake, Lebron has handled his decision and the aftermath poorly. He has shown his maturity level which is lacking from my eyes. He accuses people of racism, he makes a polarizing commercial, and he refuses to shutup. I for one have never had a problem with Lebron even after he signed with Miami. I kind of expected it once free agency started to play out further. It's his comments and his immaturity that makes me lose respect for him.

As for Cleveland fans, I definitely understand their hate. Lebron promised them he would not leave until he brought them a championship. He failed miserably with that promise. Sure, I think Cleveland fans should appreciate the 7 years he gave to them a little more. However, I can see why they don't. They feel betrayed and hurt by his decision. I actually feel bad for them but life goes on.

I can definitely see why people hate Lebron James but at the same time, I don't understand the huge outrage. As a laker fan, the best thing ever was when Shaq left Orlando. How can I have a problem with Lebron when I was so happy when Shaq came to LA? I say people should move on but also Lebron needs to grow up and stop giving people a reason to hate him. He actually makes it easy.

justinnum1
11-24-2010, 01:39 PM
To me, most fans (who teams were in the running for him) hate Lebron right now because he did not come to their team. That's the truth. If Lebron went to New York, he would have been beloved there. If he went to Chicago, he would have been beloved there. Hell, if he went to the Lakers somehow, he would have been beloved here.

I adore my Laker buddies but most of them hate Lebron because they think Lebron is somehow a threat to Kobe's stature in the nba. I don't hate him for that because he is far from it imo.

Anyway, Lebron's best chance of being "loved" and "respected" by most casual and hardcore basketballs fans was for him to stay in Cleveland. That was his best PR move imo. He chose to follow "his" desires and join up with his fellow superstars and friends. I can understand why people hate him but in reality, Lebron had the right to make any "decision" he wanted. It was his right as a free agent.

However, make no mistake, Lebron has handled his decision and the aftermath poorly. He has shown his maturity level which is lacking from my eyes. He accuses people of racism, he makes a polarizing commercial, and he refuses to shutup. I for one have never had a problem with Lebron even after he signed with Miami. I kind of expected it once free agency started to play out further. It's his comments and his immaturity that makes me lose respect for him.

As for Cleveland fans, I definitely understand their hate. Lebron promised them he would not leave until he brought them a championship. He failed miserably with that promise. Sure, I think Cleveland fans should appreciate the 7 years he gave to them a little more. However, I can see why they don't. They feel betrayed and hurt by his decision. I actually feel bad for them but life goes on.

I can definitely see why people hate Lebron James but at the same time, I don't understand the huge outrage. As a laker fan, the best thing ever was when Shaq left Orlando. How can I have a problem with Lebron when I was so happy when Shaq came to LA? I say people should move on but also Lebron needs to grow up and stop giving people a reason to hate him. He actually makes is easy.

:clap:...very nice post.

rjvacad
11-24-2010, 01:40 PM
Good article but this has to be said...Another LeBron thread :facepalm:

Hey, ESPN has an entire area set up for keeping up with the Heat, ESPN believes the Heat are the greatest. Man the Heat sure are showing how good they are. LOL

Agar81
11-24-2010, 01:50 PM
His attitude

hugepatsfan
11-24-2010, 02:13 PM
It's because he is a conceited douchebag who's full of himself and doesn't take responsibility, pointing the finger at other people instead.

JB0B0
11-24-2010, 02:29 PM
To me, most fans (who teams were in the running for him) hate Lebron right now because he did not come to their team. That's the truth. If Lebron went to New York, he would have been beloved there. If he went to Chicago, he would have been beloved there. Hell, if he went to the Lakers somehow, he would have been beloved here.

I adore my Laker buddies but most of them hate Lebron because they think Lebron is somehow a threat to Kobe's stature in the nba. I don't hate him for that because he is far from it imo.

Anyway, Lebron's best chance of being "loved" and "respected" by most casual and hardcore basketballs fans was for him to stay in Cleveland. That was his best PR move imo. He chose to follow "his" desires and join up with his fellow superstars and friends. I can understand why people hate him but in reality, Lebron had the right to make any "decision" he wanted. It was his right as a free agent.

However, make no mistake, Lebron has handled his decision and the aftermath poorly. He has shown his maturity level which is lacking from my eyes. He accuses people of racism, he makes a polarizing commercial, and he refuses to shutup. I for one have never had a problem with Lebron even after he signed with Miami. I kind of expected it once free agency started to play out further. It's his comments and his immaturity that makes me lose respect for him.

As for Cleveland fans, I definitely understand their hate. Lebron promised them he would not leave until he brought them a championship. He failed miserably with that promise. Sure, I think Cleveland fans should appreciate the 7 years he gave to them a little more. However, I can see why they don't. They feel betrayed and hurt by his decision. I actually feel bad for them but life goes on.

I can definitely see why people hate Lebron James but at the same time, I don't understand the huge outrage. As a laker fan, the best thing ever was when Shaq left Orlando. How can I have a problem with Lebron when I was so happy when Shaq came to LA? I say people should move on but also Lebron needs to grow up and stop giving people a reason to hate him. He actually makes it easy.

Bingo!

D1JM
11-24-2010, 02:38 PM
Its more we want to see the heat fail at their goal of winning a championship because three star players decided to join forces. The lakers were the most hated team last year and it changed quickly this summer.

D1JM
11-24-2010, 02:40 PM
By the way, I bet mods hope lebron just shuts up because he never says the right thing and always seems to add more wood to the fire

macc
11-24-2010, 02:46 PM
Lebron is the best and people always hate on the best. Just how it works. The only time he'll ever be appreciated is when he's gone. Jordan was hated when he played the game, now you won't hear one bad thing about the guy.

Plus people like to hate on Lebron because it's the "trendy" thing to do and people follow suit like sheep.

Lebron did something that noone has really ever done. He joined up with 2 other superstars in their prime. Lebron joined a team that gave him his best chance of being a champion. Why is that so wrong? Why hate on a guy because he didn't do what you wanted him to do? If anything, Lebron should be looked up to for taking the unpopular path because it gave him the best chance at winning a title.

Besides even with the team he has they're still struggling. Nothing is ever easy. Maybe Lebron didn't want to become a Barkley/Malone/Ewing, a great player to never win a ring.

In any case, if you want to keep drinking the hatorade then go ahead. I'll just sit back and appreciate the guy and talent he has that we've never seen before.

This is coming from a Magic fan, not heat fan btw.

anpmp
11-24-2010, 02:49 PM
Reasons for the hate are mostly due to his immature and self-serving attitude. It has been building up for a few years now.

1. Not shaking hands after playoff loss
2. Confiscation of the "dunked on" video
3. Promotion of retiring of Number 23 for ALL teams in the league
4. His sideline antics (which have been considered disrespectful mostly to opposing players)
5. Making statments like "My goal is to bring a championship to Cleveland and I won't stop till I get it" and "My goal is to bring MULTIPLE championships to Miami". (shouldn't make those statments like that unless you are committed to it... I guess it's too earlier to determine his committment to the 2nd statement)
6. The Decision
7. Blame of The Decision backlash on racism
8. "What Should I do" commercial

While some superstars of the past have had big egos (like MJ, Shaq, etc), they were still likeable because they just focused on the game. Ironically, Lebron's constant focus on his image has deteriorated it more than if he just kept quiet about it.

D1JM
11-24-2010, 02:54 PM
Lebron is the best and people always hate on the best. Just how it works. The only time he'll ever be appreciated is when he's gone. Jordan was hated when he played the game, now you won't hear one bad thing about the guy.

Plus people like to hate on Lebron because it's the "trendy" thing to do and people follow suit like sheep.

Lebron did something that noone has really ever done. He joined up with 2 other superstars in their prime. Lebron joined a team that gave him his best chance of being a champion. Why is that so wrong? Why hate on a guy because he didn't do what you wanted him to do? If anything, Lebron should be looked up to for taking the unpopular path because it gave him the best chance at winning a title.

Besides even with the team he has they're still struggling. Nothing is ever easy. Maybe Lebron didn't want to become a Barkley/Malone/Ewing, a great player to never win a ring.

In any case, if you want to keep drinking the hatorade then go ahead. I'll just sit back and appreciate the guy and talent he has that we've never seen before.

This is coming from a Magic fan, not heat fan btw.

I thought everyone wanted to be like mike? :confused:

macc
11-24-2010, 02:57 PM
I thought everyone wanted to be like mike? :confused:


Haha ya true, but the hate was there. I remember it clearly, we just didn't have forums where we could express it like we do today.

D1JM
11-24-2010, 03:03 PM
Haha ya true, but the hate was there. I remember it clearly, we just didn't have forums where we could express it like we do today.

Lebron dancing in the sidelines when he was up 20 points was very annoying. You never saw mj do stupid stuff like that.

nstojic
11-24-2010, 03:05 PM
Haha ya true, but the hate was there. I remember it clearly, we just didn't have forums where we could express it like we do today.

:confused: what are you talking about...?!?! Jordan was the global face of sport during much of his career.... people loved watching him play

what hate??? maybe you had some but the 'people' did not hate jordan

ink
11-24-2010, 03:06 PM
Good article. This line is what makes it about much more than one team or one player. It's about a flawed way of looking at a team game that is wrecking the game of basketball:


These three grew up in the star system of American basketball, and it is ingrained in their heads that stars are what matter. To that way of thinking, two stars are better than one and three are better than two. The other guys are just that: Other Guys. They are replaceable parts.

I stopped caring about Lebron a few years ago. Couldn't care less what he does or even if he continues playing. But I saw Bosh getting more and more starstruck over the last few years and saw it ending up with him making a bad basketball decision because he was so starstruck and so convinced that just having three "all stars" was the magic formula.

Like the article said, it cheats competition to think that way. And it goes far beyond this year's free agents.

NYYCowboys
11-24-2010, 03:08 PM
Reasons for the hate are mostly due to his immature and self-serving attitude. It has been building up for a few years now.

1. Not shaking hands after playoff loss
2. Confiscation of the "dunked on" video
3. Promotion of retiring of Number 23 for ALL teams in the league
4. His sideline antics (which have been considered disrespectful mostly to opposing players)
5. Making statments like "My goal is to bring a championship to Cleveland and I won't stop till I get it" and "My goal is to bring MULTIPLE championships to Miami". (shouldn't make those statments like that unless you are committed to it... I guess it's too earlier to determine his committment to the 2nd statement)
6. The Decision
7. Blame of The Decision backlash on racism
8. "What Should I do" commercial

While some superstars of the past have had big egos (like MJ, Shaq, etc), they were still likeable because they just focused on the game. Ironically, Lebron's constant focus on his image has deteriorated it more than if he just kept quiet about it.

Great post. I completely agree.

D1JM
11-24-2010, 03:08 PM
Good article. This line is what makes it about much more than one team or one player. It's about a flawed way of looking at a team game that is wrecking the game of basketball:

And if they lost, it was because they didn't have better players or the right cast around them.

macc
11-24-2010, 03:09 PM
:confused: what are you talking about...?!?! Jordan was the global face of sport during much of his career.... people loved watching him play

what hate??? maybe you had some but the 'people' did not hate jordan



Are you really saying you don't think Jordan was hated on? The guy won back to back to back championships on two seperate occasions. You're telling me everyone was fine with him beating up on everyones team? You seriously think it was all love?

anpmp
11-24-2010, 03:09 PM
Lebron is the best and people always hate on the best. Just how it works. The only time he'll ever be appreciated is when he's gone. Jordan was hated when he played the game, now you won't hear one bad thing about the guy.

Plus people like to hate on Lebron because it's the "trendy" thing to do and people follow suit like sheep.

Lebron did something that noone has really ever done. He joined up with 2 other superstars in their prime. Lebron joined a team that gave him his best chance of being a champion. Why is that so wrong? Why hate on a guy because he didn't do what you wanted him to do? If anything, Lebron should be looked up to for taking the unpopular path because it gave him the best chance at winning a title.

Besides even with the team he has they're still struggling. Nothing is ever easy. Maybe Lebron didn't want to become a Barkley/Malone/Ewing, a great player to never win a ring.

In any case, if you want to keep drinking the hatorade then go ahead. I'll just sit back and appreciate the guy and talent he has that we've never seen before.

This is coming from a Magic fan, not heat fan btw.

I wouldn't say Jordan was "hated" before winning championships. He was definitely criticized for supposedly selfish play, but that does not mean he was hated.

As far as him choosing the best chance for him to get a title, there's nothing really wrong with that and most people have a problem with the WAY he made the choice.

For people who have a problem with the choice itself, I can understand Cleveland fans' positions since he did say "My goal is to bring a championship to Cleveland and I won't stop till I get it". Why make a statement like that if you're not going to follow through on it? As a non-Cleveland fan, I really don't care where he chooses to go, but after making that particular statement, would you consider him to be a man of his word? I'm not sure I do.

Hawkeye15
11-24-2010, 03:11 PM
To me, most fans (who teams were in the running for him) hate Lebron right now because he did not come to their team. That's the truth. If Lebron went to New York, he would have been beloved there. If he went to Chicago, he would have been beloved there. Hell, if he went to the Lakers somehow, he would have been beloved here.

I adore my Laker buddies but most of them hate Lebron because they think Lebron is somehow a threat to Kobe's stature in the nba. I don't hate him for that because he is far from it imo.

Anyway, Lebron's best chance of being "loved" and "respected" by most casual and hardcore basketballs fans was for him to stay in Cleveland. That was his best PR move imo. He chose to follow "his" desires and join up with his fellow superstars and friends. I can understand why people hate him but in reality, Lebron had the right to make any "decision" he wanted. It was his right as a free agent.

However, make no mistake, Lebron has handled his decision and the aftermath poorly. He has shown his maturity level which is lacking from my eyes. He accuses people of racism, he makes a polarizing commercial, and he refuses to shutup. I for one have never had a problem with Lebron even after he signed with Miami. I kind of expected it once free agency started to play out further. It's his comments and his immaturity that makes me lose respect for him.

As for Cleveland fans, I definitely understand their hate. Lebron promised them he would not leave until he brought them a championship. He failed miserably with that promise. Sure, I think Cleveland fans should appreciate the 7 years he gave to them a little more. However, I can see why they don't. They feel betrayed and hurt by his decision. I actually feel bad for them but life goes on.

I can definitely see why people hate Lebron James but at the same time, I don't understand the huge outrage. As a laker fan, the best thing ever was when Shaq left Orlando. How can I have a problem with Lebron when I was so happy when Shaq came to LA? I say people should move on but also Lebron needs to grow up and stop giving people a reason to hate him. He actually makes it easy.


well said

Hawkeye15
11-24-2010, 03:13 PM
By the way, I bet mods hope lebron just shuts up because he never says the right thing and always seems to add more wood to the fire

I commented on that a day or two ago. NBA mods are hoping he just decides to say "no comment" for the next 3 years.

nstojic
11-24-2010, 03:14 PM
Are you really saying you don't think Jordan was hated on? The guy won back to back to back championships on two seperate occasions. You're telling me everyone was fine with him beating up on everyones team? You seriously think it was all love?

I'm the kind of guy who loves watching a dominant athlete in his prime.... sure, he'd smash my team but I'd respect him for what he could do... and I'd hate that he wasn't on my team...I don't like or hate LBJ... he's an awesome talent but I don't respect him cause of the antics...

iggypop123
11-24-2010, 03:16 PM
people hate him now at least for his contradicting comments like that easy button thing. he didnt want it easy. yet he left to south beach to team up with wade and bosh. i guess he did that to make it easy on himself right? then he tried to pull out the race card. in short, dont give people ammunition to hate you lebron

D1JM
11-24-2010, 03:19 PM
I commented on that a day or two ago. NBA mods are hoping he just decides to say "no comment" for the next 3 years.

Lol

alencp3
11-24-2010, 03:23 PM
People hate the best players in every sport

ink
11-24-2010, 03:30 PM
As a laker fan, the best thing ever was when Shaq left Orlando.

I'm sure you didn't really mean it that way, but for a great franchise like the Lakers can you honestly say that Shaq leaving Orlando was the greatest thing that has happened? I'd say it was the most tainted of the Laker dynasties. If I were to look at Phil's accomplishments as a coach I'd rate them: 1. Bulls, 2. current Lakers team (look at how far he has taken this team in such a short time), and a distant 3. the star-laden Shaq teams. The current Lakers, the Bulls, and (back to the Lakers), the Magic years, were all teams groomed by that franchise who traded for key players when needed. I find Shaq just as obnoxious as Lebron. Easily. There's too much good basketball out there to waste time being star-obsessed. I like to see teams win honestly through hard work, smart coaching, and dedicated players. Sounds like I just described the Spurs. lol.

macc
11-24-2010, 03:30 PM
I wouldn't say Jordan was "hated" before winning championships. He was definitely criticized for supposedly selfish play, but that does not mean he was hated.

As far as him choosing the best chance for him to get a title, there's nothing really wrong with that and most people have a problem with the WAY he made the choice.

For people who have a problem with the choice itself, I can understand Cleveland fans' positions since he did say "My goal is to bring a championship to Cleveland and I won't stop till I get it". Why make a statement like that if you're not going to follow through on it? As a non-Cleveland fan, I really don't care where he chooses to go, but after making that particular statement, would you consider him to be a man of his word? I'm not sure I do.


Yes he should of told Clevleand what was up before he went on national tv to declare his decision. I agree that wasn't a very classy thing to do but I don't fault him for going on TV with it since it was a big deal, actually it was a HUGE deal. Hense the ratings it got. If people were by a tv they tuned in. It was something that was promoted and made money off of. If I remember right and I COULD BE WRONG, but I think some of the money that was made during the one hour special went to a rund raiser of some sort. I think I remember hearing something about it. In any case, lets not pretend that his decision wasn't a big deal and nobody cared because it was actually the exact opposite.

As far as the statement he made about bringing a championship to Cleveland, so what? People change there mind in sports all the time. Jerry Jones said Wade Phillips was going to be his coach the rest of the year and like two weeks later he's unemployed. Besides that Lebron is young, as people get older they evolve and change their mind on certain things. People forget Lebron was like 18 when coming into the league. Is it the worst thing in the world he changed his mind about something? We all do it, it happens, it's part of growing up. Besides I never take anything a player says as gold. Actions speak louder than words. Dwight Howard said he'll be in Orlando his entire career. Until that contract is signed anything can happen and I'm keeping my mind open to that. Savy.

ink
11-24-2010, 03:32 PM
People hate the best players in every sport

Seriously??? I don't hate Durant, CP3, DWill, DHoward, Nash, Pau, Duncan, Ray Allen, etc. If there's any dislike it's because they have brought it on themselves because of things they've done or said. People "hate" athletes who think or act like they're bigger than the game.

ink
11-24-2010, 03:36 PM
And if they lost, it was because they didn't have better players or the right cast around them.

Yup.

macc
11-24-2010, 03:37 PM
Seriously??? I don't hate Durant, CP3, DWill, DHoward, Nash, Pau, Duncan, Ray Allen, etc. If there's any dislike it's because they have brought it on themselves because of things they've done or said. People "hate" athletes who think or act like they're bigger than the game.



Disagree completely. Those are all good/great players you mentioned but they are not the "best" player in the league, and yes the BEST player in the league is normally hated.

Kobe - Hated

Lebron - Hated

Tom Brady (arguably best QB) - Hated

Sidney Crosby - Hated

Alex Rodriguez - Hated

See my point......

LeGacy is Music
11-24-2010, 03:38 PM
His attitude

:offtopic: how are you a Yankee's Fan and Boston team fan??? :facepalm:

hotpotato1092
11-24-2010, 03:41 PM
Here are, in descending order, the reasons I hate LeBron James, and I think most of America does for these reasons as well:

6. He quit on his team. This is not speculation or conjecture, this is fact. Something happened between games 3 and 4 of the Eastern Conference Semis, and he just didn't care from that point on. Rajon Rondo was the best player in that series, and while he is fantastic, there is no excuse for a series in which he plays for LeBron James not to be the best player. If LeBron had gone all out, the Cavs would have beaten the Celtics, and maybe even the Lakers. Lebron, you are the reason the Cavs didn't win the title last year, not your teammates.

5. He quit on his city. Cleveland isn't the world's greatest city, we all know that. But this city adopted him as their own, he was a god to them. When you met someone from Cleveland, you brought up LeBron James and their faces lit up like a proud parent. He pronounced himself King James, promised to bring them a title, gave them hope that despite everything that had happened to them (Earnest Byner, Art Modell, Jose Mesa, Jordan over Ehlo, etc...) was just a precursor to the greatness that was to come. And then he left. Never even said goodbye. It almost seemed like he went out of his way to insult them (remember when he thanked Akron but never mentioned Cleveland?) This is America, he had every right to leave, but he lied to Cleveland. Don't ask to be treated like a savior when you aren't ready for the responsibility that comes with it.

4. He lied to the world. It was a foregone conclusion that he'd sign with Miami. Whether it happened at the '08 olympics or even during the playoffs, LeBron knew where he was going. That didn't stop him from stringing 5 other teams along. All of those teams built their offseasons towards bringing him in, little did they know they didn't really have a chance. Worst of all, he gave his old team no chance to rebuild. Had Cleveland known he wasn't coming back, they could have actually made some moves to try to rebuild. Nope, adding to his brand but increasing suspense was far more important to him than showing a bit of class and helping out the team that had done so much for him.

3. He embarrassed his city. Again, he had every right to leave, but an hour long television special about his destination on ESPN? Did he not realize the humiliation Cleveland must have felt when he basically said "you're not good enough for me". Say what you will about Kobe Bryant, but he would have never done this. And to not call the Cavs before going on the air? Just absolutely classless. Speaking of The Decision...

2. He exploited a charity. This is something that REALLY bothers me. He figured by raising money for the boys and girls club, there wouldn't be a backlash to doing The Decision. 3 million dollars is chump change to LeBron James, if he really cared about the boys and girls club he could have donated that money himself. Using a charitable organization as a front to stroke your enormous ego and humiliate your city is just wrong. One of the worst things I've ever seen an athlete do. If this were any other athlete I'd make this #1, but there's something specific to LeBron James that really hurts me the most.

1. He quit on himself. Of all the emotions I feel towards LeBron James, disappointment is the worst. While we may hate that he left and hate how he did it, I think most of all we're all disappointed because we wanted so much more for him. This is a guy that not only Cleveland, but all of America, maybe even the whole world, saw as potentially the greatest athlete of all time. There has never been and there may never be a more physically gifted athlete than LeBron James. Since before his career began, he was anointed King James, hailed as the man who would surpass Jordan. For 7 years we watched him grow into a player not only with incredible talents, but enormous skill and an attitude that made his teammates love and admire him. He may not have had Jordan's (or even Kobe's) killer instinct, but he had everything else necessary to become the greatest of all time. And then he threw it away. He admitted that he couldn't do it on his own (as the other greats had), so he decided to ride the coattails of someone who had, Dwyane Wade. We all wanted to be witnesses, to say we saw LeBron James take over the league and become the GOAT, and when we saw him join Dwyane Wade we all scoffed. Michael Jordan would NEVER do this. A truly great athlete is not only a great player, but someone who was the will and determination to fight through the bad times, someone who can become such a singular force that even superior teams welt before them. This is what I will never forgive in LeBron James. I wanted to see him be the greatest of all time, I wanted to see him win 7 championships, but most of all, I wanted to see him do it the way Jordan did, as the undisputed leader of his team. He admitted that he either couldn't or wouldn't do it the right way, choosing the easy way instead, and that is what I hate most about LeBron.

Deep down, I think these are the reasons we hate LeBron. The article hit most of it right on the head.

haggis
11-24-2010, 03:54 PM
^^ :clap:

FANTASTIC post.

ink
11-24-2010, 03:57 PM
Disagree completely. Those are all good/great players you mentioned but they are not the "best" player in the league, and yes the BEST player in the league is normally hated.

Kobe - Hated

Lebron - Hated

Tom Brady (arguably best QB) - Hated

Sidney Crosby - Hated

Alex Rodriguez - Hated

See my point......

No I don't see your point. You named two NBA players, both of whom have done things off the court that have pissed people off. They're not being hated because they're the best. They're being hated because they're major jerks. lol. btw, I don't have an ounce of hate for Brady, Crosby, or Rodriguez. If people hate (and that's a big if because, believe it or not, there are lots of fans above that crap) it's usually because of the personality, not this silly concept of jealousy that we always hear about.

Tim Duncan and the Spurs killed the Suns' hopes of making the NBA finals over and over again. I don't hate them. I admire them. Same goes for the Lakers. I don't hate them. I admire them as a great team.

yanks19791024
11-24-2010, 03:59 PM
Ill keep it real, Liked Lebron alot until he choose to take his talents to South Beach. Man I wanted him on the Knicks so bad

omdigga
11-24-2010, 04:05 PM
i dont hate him.. i just lost a lot of respect for him.. and hope he loses every game...

i used to route for him when he was on the cavs.. just hard to like the miami big 3.. haslem was my favorite player on the heat.. sux he went down..

D1JM
11-24-2010, 04:06 PM
Disagree completely. Those are all good/great players you mentioned but they are not the "best" player in the league, and yes the BEST player in the league is normally hated.

Kobe - Hated

Lebron - Hated

Tom Brady (arguably best QB) - Hated

Sidney Crosby - Hated

Alex Rodriguez - Hated

See my point......


Lol arod is not the best player in MLB.

LanceUpperCut
11-24-2010, 04:08 PM
Disagree completely. Those are all good/great players you mentioned but they are not the "best" player in the league, and yes the BEST player in the league is normally hated.

Kobe - Hated

Lebron - Hated

Tom Brady (arguably best QB) - Hated

Sidney Crosby - Hated

Alex Rodriguez - Hated

See my point......

I see 2 maybe or 3 guys on their that are hated Lebron, A-Rod and possibley Kobe all have many reason for hate that have nothing to do with their sport. Tom Brady, Sid, Peyton, Wade, Durant, Ovechken I could go on and on with superstars that I might not route for cause their killing my teams but by no means are they hated for being great.

Kenny Powders
11-24-2010, 04:15 PM
Disagree completely. Those are all good/great players you mentioned but they are not the "best" player in the league, and yes the BEST player in the league is normally hated.

Kobe - Hated

Lebron - Hated

Tom Brady (arguably best QB) - Hated

Sidney Crosby - Hated

Alex Rodriguez - Hated

See my point......

Tom Brady may be one of the top 5 QBs in the league, but when you take all football players in account, he probably falls out of the top ten. Far from the best.

The case could be made for both Bryant and James, but you have to pick one. You sated the "best" PLAYER in each league. Why does basketball deserve 2?

Alex Rodriguez and "the best player in baseball. Thats just laughable. Maybe highest paid or most overpaid. But best??

There are some people in Washington who might disagree with yo about Crosby as well. Even though I agree with you, it is still up for debate.

Fail.

nstojic
11-24-2010, 04:16 PM
Sidney Crosby - Hated



:laugh:

As if enough people even watch hockey, worldwide, to hate Crosby.... and I live in Toronto; and in a country where almost everyone watches hockey....


besides, Ovechkin's the best hockey player, U mad?

macc
11-24-2010, 04:16 PM
No I don't see your point. You named two NBA players, both of whom have done things off the court that have pissed people off. They're not being hated because they're the best. They're being hated because they're major jerks. lol. btw, I don't have an ounce of hate for Brady, Crosby, or Rodriguez. If people hate (and that's a big if because, believe it or not, there are lots of fans above that crap) it's usually because of the personality, not this silly concept of jealousy that we always hear about.

Tim Duncan and the Spurs killed the Suns' hopes of making the NBA finals over and over again. I don't hate them. I admire them. Same goes for the Lakers. I don't hate them. I admire them as a great team.

How do you not see my point? Maybe you're reading through my replies to fast. ;)

You said players like Chris Paul, Williams, Howard aren't hated on.

I replied and said they are great players but they aren't rated #1 in the league so they're not going to be hated on.

Then I preceeded to say the best in sports are always hated on. A Rod is hated in baseball, Tom Brady is hated in football (not Lebron hated but still hated), Crosby is hated on in Hockey. Lebron is hated and so is Kobe.

Don't tell me people hate on Kobe because he's a jerk. We both know you don't really believe that's the reason. For every one thing you think Kobe should be hated for I can name 10 players who have done worse and are just loved by fans. Kobe is hated because he's the best. Period.

Bottom line is the best of the best are always hated on. That goes for teams as well. People hate the Lakers because they are the best. As soon as MIami got their big three people started tearing into them because they were supposed to be the new best.

People love the underdogs, and when somone is the best, everyone below them is considered an underdog so people will naturally root for them. You can agree or disagree with me all you want. That's how it is.

nstojic
11-24-2010, 04:18 PM
I could go on and on with superstars that I might not route for cause their killing my teams but by no means are they hated for being great.

this.

when the guy doesn't do douchey things to make you dislike him, you have nothing left but to respect him for what he can do in his sport...

macc
11-24-2010, 04:18 PM
:laugh:

As if enough people even watch hockey, worldwide, to hate Crosby.... and I live in Toronto; and in a country where almost everyone watches hockey....


besides, Ovechkin's the best hockey player, U mad?




I've never heard that one before. Is your name Mr. Original?

ink
11-24-2010, 04:23 PM
How do you not see my point? Maybe you're reading through my replies to fast. ;)

You said players like Chris Paul, Williams, Howard aren't hated on.

I replied and said they are great players but they aren't rated #1 in the league so they're not going to be hated on.

Then I preceeded to say the best in sports are always hated on. A Rod is hated in baseball, Tom Brady is hated in football (not Lebron hated but still hated), Crosby is hated on in Hockey. Lebron is hated and so is Kobe.

Don't tell me people hate on Kobe because he's a jerk. We both know you don't really believe that's the reason. For every one thing you think Kobe should be hated for I can name 10 players who have done worse and are just loved by fans. Kobe is hated because he's the best. Period.

Bottom line is the best of the best are always hated on. That goes for teams as well. People hate the Lakers because they are the best. As soon as MIami got their big three people started tearing into them because they were supposed to be the new best.

People love the underdogs, and when somone is the best, everyone below them is considered an underdog so people will naturally root for them. You can agree or disagree with me all you want. That's how it is.

If people hate on players because they're "great" that's just just petty childishness. Time to grow up. But if a person dislikes someone and can express why intelligently like hotpotato did earlier in the thread, that's different. He gave reasons and not one of them was because the player is "great". That type of hate is more shallow than the athlete being hated on.

anpmp
11-24-2010, 04:24 PM
Yes he should of told Clevleand what was up before he went on national tv to declare his decision. I agree that wasn't a very classy thing to do but I don't fault him for going on TV with it since it was a big deal, actually it was a HUGE deal. Hense the ratings it got. If people were by a tv they tuned in. It was something that was promoted and made money off of. If I remember right and I COULD BE WRONG, but I think some of the money that was made during the one hour special went to a rund raiser of some sort. I think I remember hearing something about it. In any case, lets not pretend that his decision wasn't a big deal and nobody cared because it was actually the exact opposite.

As far as the statement he made about bringing a championship to Cleveland, so what? People change there mind in sports all the time. Jerry Jones said Wade Phillips was going to be his coach the rest of the year and like two weeks later he's unemployed. Besides that Lebron is young, as people get older they evolve and change their mind on certain things. People forget Lebron was like 18 when coming into the league. Is it the worst thing in the world he changed his mind about something? We all do it, it happens, it's part of growing up. Besides I never take anything a player says as gold. Actions speak louder than words. Dwight Howard said he'll be in Orlando his entire career. Until that contract is signed anything can happen and I'm keeping my mind open to that. Savy.

I agree that Lebron's decision was a big deal and was of huge interest to everyone, fans and non-fans. But it doesn't mean that he should have announced it on National TV in an hour-long episode promoting himself. If Kobe had made such a show back in 2004 or 2008 when he was a free agent, he would have generated a lot of viewership as well, but would have also received a similar backlash if he promoted himself like Lebron did.

The statement about not stopping until bringing a championship to Cleveland was made in March or April of THIS year. He was not 18 when he made the statement. He "became older" and "evolved" over a span of three months that resulted in him changing his mind.

nstojic
11-24-2010, 04:24 PM
Bottom line is the best of the best are always hated on.

based on the prestigious opinions of PSD, right? :rolleyes:


Just cause you keep saying it, doesn't make it true...

as Ink said, there are reasons for the players you mentioned..

Kobe - off court problems in the past

LBJ - Personality and questionable antics

Crosby - probably in the states where the sheer fact that he's Canadian would cause some to 'hate'... he's beloved in Canada :shrug:

Arod - roids, personality

Brady - Stupid Gay-*** Bieber haircut :mad:

ink
11-24-2010, 04:25 PM
Here are, in descending order, the reasons I hate LeBron James, and I think most of America does for these reasons as well:

6. He quit on his team. This is not speculation or conjecture, this is fact. Something happened between games 3 and 4 of the Eastern Conference Semis, and he just didn't care from that point on. Rajon Rondo was the best player in that series, and while he is fantastic, there is no excuse for a series in which he plays for LeBron James not to be the best player. If LeBron had gone all out, the Cavs would have beaten the Celtics, and maybe even the Lakers. Lebron, you are the reason the Cavs didn't win the title last year, not your teammates.

5. He quit on his city. Cleveland isn't the world's greatest city, we all know that. But this city adopted him as their own, he was a god to them. When you met someone from Cleveland, you brought up LeBron James and their faces lit up like a proud parent. He pronounced himself King James, promised to bring them a title, gave them hope that despite everything that had happened to them (Earnest Byner, Art Modell, Jose Mesa, Jordan over Ehlo, etc...) was just a precursor to the greatness that was to come. And then he left. Never even said goodbye. It almost seemed like he went out of his way to insult them (remember when he thanked Akron but never mentioned Cleveland?) This is America, he had every right to leave, but he lied to Cleveland. Don't ask to be treated like a savior when you aren't ready for the responsibility that comes with it.

4. He lied to the world. It was a foregone conclusion that he'd sign with Miami. Whether it happened at the '08 olympics or even during the playoffs, LeBron knew where he was going. That didn't stop him from stringing 5 other teams along. All of those teams built their offseasons towards bringing him in, little did they know they didn't really have a chance. Worst of all, he gave his old team no chance to rebuild. Had Cleveland known he wasn't coming back, they could have actually made some moves to try to rebuild. Nope, adding to his brand but increasing suspense was far more important to him than showing a bit of class and helping out the team that had done so much for him.

3. He embarrassed his city. Again, he had every right to leave, but an hour long television special about his destination on ESPN? Did he not realize the humiliation Cleveland must have felt when he basically said "you're not good enough for me". Say what you will about Kobe Bryant, but he would have never done this. And to not call the Cavs before going on the air? Just absolutely classless. Speaking of The Decision...

2. He exploited a charity. This is something that REALLY bothers me. He figured by raising money for the boys and girls club, there wouldn't be a backlash to doing The Decision. 3 million dollars is chump change to LeBron James, if he really cared about the boys and girls club he could have donated that money himself. Using a charitable organization as a front to stroke your enormous ego and humiliate your city is just wrong. One of the worst things I've ever seen an athlete do. If this were any other athlete I'd make this #1, but there's something specific to LeBron James that really hurts me the most.

1. He quit on himself. Of all the emotions I feel towards LeBron James, disappointment is the worst. While we may hate that he left and hate how he did it, I think most of all we're all disappointed because we wanted so much more for him. This is a guy that not only Cleveland, but all of America, maybe even the whole world, saw as potentially the greatest athlete of all time. There has never been and there may never be a more physically gifted athlete than LeBron James. Since before his career began, he was anointed King James, hailed as the man who would surpass Jordan. For 7 years we watched him grow into a player not only with incredible talents, but enormous skill and an attitude that made his teammates love and admire him. He may not have had Jordan's (or even Kobe's) killer instinct, but he had everything else necessary to become the greatest of all time. And then he threw it away. He admitted that he couldn't do it on his own (as the other greats had), so he decided to ride the coattails of someone who had, Dwyane Wade. We all wanted to be witnesses, to say we saw LeBron James take over the league and become the GOAT, and when we saw him join Dwyane Wade we all scoffed. Michael Jordan would NEVER do this. A truly great athlete is not only a great player, but someone who was the will and determination to fight through the bad times, someone who can become such a singular force that even superior teams welt before them. This is what I will never forgive in LeBron James. I wanted to see him be the greatest of all time, I wanted to see him win 7 championships, but most of all, I wanted to see him do it the way Jordan did, as the undisputed leader of his team. He admitted that he either couldn't or wouldn't do it the right way, choosing the easy way instead, and that is what I hate most about LeBron.

Deep down, I think these are the reasons we hate LeBron. The article hit most of it right on the head.

Great post. Reason #4 really hits home for me: Cleveland deserved notice so that they knew what the decision would be so they could build their teams accordingly. By stringing along 5 teams he ****ed up those franchises at least for a few years.

macc
11-24-2010, 04:26 PM
If people hate on players because they're "great" that's just just petty childishness. Time to grow up. But if a person dislikes someone and can express why intelligently like hotpotato did earlier in the thread, that's different. He gave reasons and not one of them was because the player is "great". That type of hate is more shallow than the athlete being hated on.



And as I said. For every one reason you can bring up to hate Lebron or Kobe I can bring up 10 players who have done something much worse who are completely loved in this league.

If you or anyone thinks Lebron is hated on strictly because of a couple dumb things he's done off the court and not at the fact that he's the best player in the league, then that's simply ignorant.

KDM1986
11-24-2010, 04:29 PM
I have said this before and will say it again. It's not that Lebron left Cleveland it's the way he did it. All the hate, boos, jeers he keeps getting is because of the way he did it. Period end of story.

ink
11-24-2010, 04:32 PM
And as I said. For every one reason you can bring up to hate Lebron or Kobe I can bring up 10 players who have done something much worse who are completely loved in this league.

If you or anyone thinks Lebron is hated on strictly because of a couple dumb things he's done off the court and not at the fact that he's the best player in the league, then that's simply ignorant.

Repeating the same argument but adding an insult doesn't make it any more persuasive. It has no substance. Read hotpotato's post and tell me that he hates Lebron because he's "great".

AddiX
11-24-2010, 04:34 PM
Bron is a chump, thats why we hate him.

People forget CLE was built around him to succeed.

Miami isn't and its showing. And now that they aren't dancing around him like a fool, and he can't use this BS excuse of not having a good team as to why he is losing, he's "not having fun."

Who else remembers at the end of "The Decision" when he gave some $ to boys and girls club when he tried to make it seem like this wasn't all about him. That was the worst attempt to try and save face I ever seen.

SluggeR
11-24-2010, 04:37 PM
Only haters hate lebron. Hate is such a strong word. I'm a diehard Knicks fan and I don't hate the man. That's why he said this summer race is always a factor, because with all the evils in the world; what has this man done to be hated. Is it his fault cleveland sucked for years before he got there, is it his fault their management can't build a winner?! If one man affects a city so much, you might need to look at the city and the people running it. All this brother has done is go from poverty to success..."THE AMERICAN DREAM". How can you hate that?! FOLKS GET A LIFE OR TELL THE REAL REASON WHY YOU HATE LEBRON.

nstojic
11-24-2010, 04:42 PM
That's why he said this summer race is always a factor, because with all the evils in the world; what has this man done to be hated. Is it his fault cleveland sucked for years before he got there, is it his fault their management can't build a winner?! If one man affects a city so much, you might need to look at the city and the people running it. All this brother has done is go from poverty to success..."THE AMERICAN DREAM". How can you hate that?! FOLKS GET A LIFE OR TELL THE REAL REASON WHY YOU HATE LEBRON.

Did you not read the article that the OP posted?!?!?! or even the rest of the thread, for that matter?

anpmp
11-24-2010, 04:45 PM
And as I said. For every one reason you can bring up to hate Lebron or Kobe I can bring up 10 players who have done something much worse who are completely loved in this league.

If you or anyone thinks Lebron is hated on strictly because of a couple dumb things he's done off the court and not at the fact that he's the best player in the league, then that's simply ignorant.

You are probably correct in saying that Lebron is hated because of doing dumb things off the court AND being one of the best players. But that is not the same thing as saying he is hated for being the one of the best players.

If he was an average player and still had the same attitude, he probably would not be hated as much because nobody would care about an average player (like Gilbert Arenas and his gun issues for example).

But if he was one of the best players and had a great attitude (like Magic Johnson), he simply will not be hated.

The main factor in being hated is really the ATTITUDE. The "best player" factor is only draws attention towards the player. Once the player has drawn the attention (due to being the "best"), he is only hated if he has an unlikeable personality.

SluggeR
11-24-2010, 04:45 PM
Didn't have to nstojic, he hasn't done anything for folks to HATE him. If your not a fan, just say that. HATE?! Mane get serious!!!

haggis
11-24-2010, 04:47 PM
^^^Didn't have to, he hasn't done anything for folks to HATE him. If your not a fan, just say that. HATE?! Mane get serious!!!

do yourself a favor and read hotpotato's entry. he justifies his hate very well.

infinity2152
11-24-2010, 04:47 PM
If Lebron would have just gone to the Heat, without all the melodrama, about ten teams would not have made the moves they made. He made fans in several cities think he might be signing with them as did Wade and Bosh, and then threw a national television party telling all those people "We screwed you and have teamed up to destroy your teams for and I quote"not 5, not 6, not 7", well a whole lot of potential championships. Teams were trading away good players for 2nd rd picks, and giving up firsts, to clear cap. Of course lots of fans are resentful, its like going to speed dating, passing up all the chicks waiting on one girl you think is the best, then find out she came with her girlfriend at the end of the night.

News24/7
11-24-2010, 04:47 PM
Here are, in descending order, the reasons I hate LeBron James, and I think most of America does for these reasons as well:

6. He quit on his team. This is not speculation or conjecture, this is fact. Something happened between games 3 and 4 of the Eastern Conference Semis, and he just didn't care from that point on. Rajon Rondo was the best player in that series, and while he is fantastic, there is no excuse for a series in which he plays for LeBron James not to be the best player. If LeBron had gone all out, the Cavs would have beaten the Celtics, and maybe even the Lakers. Lebron, you are the reason the Cavs didn't win the title last year, not your teammates.

5. He quit on his city. Cleveland isn't the world's greatest city, we all know that. But this city adopted him as their own, he was a god to them. When you met someone from Cleveland, you brought up LeBron James and their faces lit up like a proud parent. He pronounced himself King James, promised to bring them a title, gave them hope that despite everything that had happened to them (Earnest Byner, Art Modell, Jose Mesa, Jordan over Ehlo, etc...) was just a precursor to the greatness that was to come. And then he left. Never even said goodbye. It almost seemed like he went out of his way to insult them (remember when he thanked Akron but never mentioned Cleveland?) This is America, he had every right to leave, but he lied to Cleveland. Don't ask to be treated like a savior when you aren't ready for the responsibility that comes with it.

4. He lied to the world. It was a foregone conclusion that he'd sign with Miami. Whether it happened at the '08 olympics or even during the playoffs, LeBron knew where he was going. That didn't stop him from stringing 5 other teams along. All of those teams built their offseasons towards bringing him in, little did they know they didn't really have a chance. Worst of all, he gave his old team no chance to rebuild. Had Cleveland known he wasn't coming back, they could have actually made some moves to try to rebuild. Nope, adding to his brand but increasing suspense was far more important to him than showing a bit of class and helping out the team that had done so much for him.

3. He embarrassed his city. Again, he had every right to leave, but an hour long television special about his destination on ESPN? Did he not realize the humiliation Cleveland must have felt when he basically said "you're not good enough for me". Say what you will about Kobe Bryant, but he would have never done this. And to not call the Cavs before going on the air? Just absolutely classless. Speaking of The Decision...

2. He exploited a charity. This is something that REALLY bothers me. He figured by raising money for the boys and girls club, there wouldn't be a backlash to doing The Decision. 3 million dollars is chump change to LeBron James, if he really cared about the boys and girls club he could have donated that money himself. Using a charitable organization as a front to stroke your enormous ego and humiliate your city is just wrong. One of the worst things I've ever seen an athlete do. If this were any other athlete I'd make this #1, but there's something specific to LeBron James that really hurts me the most.

1. He quit on himself. Of all the emotions I feel towards LeBron James, disappointment is the worst. While we may hate that he left and hate how he did it, I think most of all we're all disappointed because we wanted so much more for him. This is a guy that not only Cleveland, but all of America, maybe even the whole world, saw as potentially the greatest athlete of all time. There has never been and there may never be a more physically gifted athlete than LeBron James. Since before his career began, he was anointed King James, hailed as the man who would surpass Jordan. For 7 years we watched him grow into a player not only with incredible talents, but enormous skill and an attitude that made his teammates love and admire him. He may not have had Jordan's (or even Kobe's) killer instinct, but he had everything else necessary to become the greatest of all time. And then he threw it away. He admitted that he couldn't do it on his own (as the other greats had), so he decided to ride the coattails of someone who had, Dwyane Wade. We all wanted to be witnesses, to say we saw LeBron James take over the league and become the GOAT, and when we saw him join Dwyane Wade we all scoffed. Michael Jordan would NEVER do this. A truly great athlete is not only a great player, but someone who was the will and determination to fight through the bad times, someone who can become such a singular force that even superior teams welt before them. This is what I will never forgive in LeBron James. I wanted to see him be the greatest of all time, I wanted to see him win 7 championships, but most of all, I wanted to see him do it the way Jordan did, as the undisputed leader of his team. He admitted that he either couldn't or wouldn't do it the right way, choosing the easy way instead, and that is what I hate most about LeBron.

Deep down, I think these are the reasons we hate LeBron. The article hit most of it right on the head.

If there was a PSD's "Post of the Year" award, this would be it.

BuddhaMONK
11-24-2010, 04:48 PM
Your kidding right?
1) maybe it's because he tried to prevent the tape where he got slammed on from ever being seen
2) maybe it''s the fact that he gave the cavs and many people hope that they had a chance at signing him (when his mind was probably made up years ago)
3) Maybe it's the fact that he ruined his chance to be the next jordan by joining these guys, and every supporter of him upto the miami signingis pissed off about it
4) maybe it's the fact he pulled the race card because of all the criticism he was getting
5) maybe it's the fact that he's a **** in real life there's plenty of evidence on youtube of this
6) Maybe it's because he extremely cocky and hasn't proven anything (what's he won?)
7) Maybe because we love to see talented people fail because it makes us feel good about ourselves

justinnum1
11-24-2010, 04:50 PM
:laugh:

macc
11-24-2010, 04:56 PM
Here are, in descending order, the reasons I hate LeBron James, and I think most of America does for these reasons as well:

6. He quit on his team. This is not speculation or conjecture, this is fact. Something happened between games 3 and 4 of the Eastern Conference Semis, and he just didn't care from that point on. Rajon Rondo was the best player in that series, and while he is fantastic, there is no excuse for a series in which he plays for LeBron James not to be the best player. If LeBron had gone all out, the Cavs would have beaten the Celtics, and maybe even the Lakers. Lebron, you are the reason the Cavs didn't win the title last year, not your teammates.

5. He quit on his city. Cleveland isn't the world's greatest city, we all know that. But this city adopted him as their own, he was a god to them. When you met someone from Cleveland, you brought up LeBron James and their faces lit up like a proud parent. He pronounced himself King James, promised to bring them a title, gave them hope that despite everything that had happened to them (Earnest Byner, Art Modell, Jose Mesa, Jordan over Ehlo, etc...) was just a precursor to the greatness that was to come. And then he left. Never even said goodbye. It almost seemed like he went out of his way to insult them (remember when he thanked Akron but never mentioned Cleveland?) This is America, he had every right to leave, but he lied to Cleveland. Don't ask to be treated like a savior when you aren't ready for the responsibility that comes with it.

4. He lied to the world. It was a foregone conclusion that he'd sign with Miami. Whether it happened at the '08 olympics or even during the playoffs, LeBron knew where he was going. That didn't stop him from stringing 5 other teams along. All of those teams built their offseasons towards bringing him in, little did they know they didn't really have a chance. Worst of all, he gave his old team no chance to rebuild. Had Cleveland known he wasn't coming back, they could have actually made some moves to try to rebuild. Nope, adding to his brand but increasing suspense was far more important to him than showing a bit of class and helping out the team that had done so much for him.

3. He embarrassed his city. Again, he had every right to leave, but an hour long television special about his destination on ESPN? Did he not realize the humiliation Cleveland must have felt when he basically said "you're not good enough for me". Say what you will about Kobe Bryant, but he would have never done this. And to not call the Cavs before going on the air? Just absolutely classless. Speaking of The Decision...

2. He exploited a charity. This is something that REALLY bothers me. He figured by raising money for the boys and girls club, there wouldn't be a backlash to doing The Decision. 3 million dollars is chump change to LeBron James, if he really cared about the boys and girls club he could have donated that money himself. Using a charitable organization as a front to stroke your enormous ego and humiliate your city is just wrong. One of the worst things I've ever seen an athlete do. If this were any other athlete I'd make this #1, but there's something specific to LeBron James that really hurts me the most.

1. He quit on himself. Of all the emotions I feel towards LeBron James, disappointment is the worst. While we may hate that he left and hate how he did it, I think most of all we're all disappointed because we wanted so much more for him. This is a guy that not only Cleveland, but all of America, maybe even the whole world, saw as potentially the greatest athlete of all time. There has never been and there may never be a more physically gifted athlete than LeBron James. Since before his career began, he was anointed King James, hailed as the man who would surpass Jordan. For 7 years we watched him grow into a player not only with incredible talents, but enormous skill and an attitude that made his teammates love and admire him. He may not have had Jordan's (or even Kobe's) killer instinct, but he had everything else necessary to become the greatest of all time. And then he threw it away. He admitted that he couldn't do it on his own (as the other greats had), so he decided to ride the coattails of someone who had, Dwyane Wade. We all wanted to be witnesses, to say we saw LeBron James take over the league and become the GOAT, and when we saw him join Dwyane Wade we all scoffed. Michael Jordan would NEVER do this. A truly great athlete is not only a great player, but someone who was the will and determination to fight through the bad times, someone who can become such a singular force that even superior teams welt before them. This is what I will never forgive in LeBron James. I wanted to see him be the greatest of all time, I wanted to see him win 7 championships, but most of all, I wanted to see him do it the way Jordan did, as the undisputed leader of his team. He admitted that he either couldn't or wouldn't do it the right way, choosing the easy way instead, and that is what I hate most about LeBron.

Deep down, I think these are the reasons we hate LeBron. The article hit most of it right on the head.




First off I respect you opinion and you actually took the time to compile a list to explain why.

Anyways to play devils advocate to your list....

6. Explain how 27 ppg 9 rb 7 *** avg is "quitting on a team." Even in game 6 Lebron had 19 rebounds w/ 10 assists! Plus he played 40+ min per night. If that's quitting on a team then I guess I would want that type of quitter on my team.

5. What does Lebron owe Cleveland? Lebron was in Cleveland 6-7 years, it didn't work out, his contract was up and he left. If anything Cleveland should be thanking them for making their team relevant for that period of time. You have to realize the NBA is a business. Players use teams and the teams use players. The min a player is past their prime and on the downslope of their career, how much respect do they get from their team? NONE. As soon as a player is on the downslope of their career most teams trade them to get whatever value they can while they still have some. So it goes both ways. Hell, even Michael Jordan got disrespected. He came out of retirement, played for the Wizards a couple years, as soon as he finished his contract, he was expecting to get his job back with the Wizards but NOPE, they fired him and told him to go his own way. That was right after Jordan made Washington relevant again.

4. I agree that he prob should of given his team a heads up, but then again going back to the business stand point. Why should he? How often do you think players are warned before they are traded. Some players don't know they have been traded until they see it on ESPN, when a player is traded he pretty much has to pick up his family and move just like that. Is that fair? Nope, it's business.

3. I agree, he should of given Cleveland a heads up about the decision. Maybe he didn't tell them because then it would of leaked out to the media ahead of time, who knows.

2. I don't know how you can hate on a guy for giving 3 million dollars to charity. How much money have YOU given to charity? We don't have to be rich to donate money so lets not battle over how much. I'm sure the people of the boys and girls club were just fine with 3 million dollars.

1. That's a complete personal opinion with NOTHING to back it up.



Once again you have to realize the NBA is a business. A team will crap on you just as fast as you can crap on them. It happens everyday.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
11-24-2010, 04:56 PM
the only reason you Hate a player... is because you can't beat him. 'Nuff said...

macc
11-24-2010, 04:59 PM
You are probably correct in saying that Lebron is hated because of doing dumb things off the court AND being one of the best players. But that is not the same thing as saying he is hated for being the one of the best players.

If he was an average player and still had the same attitude, he probably would not be hated as much because nobody would care about an average player (like Gilbert Arenas and his gun issues for example).

But if he was one of the best players and had a great attitude (like Magic Johnson), he simply will not be hated.

The main factor in being hated is really the ATTITUDE. The "best player" factor is only draws attention towards the player. Once the player has drawn the attention (due to being the "best"), he is only hated if he has an unlikeable personality.


Well said and I agree. Lebron does have a big head but it's because of people like us who can't stop talking about him. When people love/hate you as much as they do Lebron then can you really blame the guy for having a big head?

macc
11-24-2010, 05:00 PM
Repeating the same argument but adding an insult doesn't make it any more persuasive. It has no substance. Read hotpotato's post and tell me that he hates Lebron because he's "great".



I did, and I quoted it. :cool:

fadedmario
11-24-2010, 05:02 PM
Miami games are boring to watch.....suprisingly

dtmagnet
11-24-2010, 05:09 PM
What a great article, that captures the feeling right there.

Kenny Powders
11-24-2010, 05:13 PM
First off I respect you opinion and you actually took the time to compile a list to explain why.

Anyways to play devils advocate to your list....

6. Explain how 27 ppg 9 rb 7 *** avg is "quitting on a team." Even in game 6 Lebron had 19 rebounds w/ 10 assists! Plus he played 40+ min per night. If that's quitting on a team then I guess I would want that type of quitter on my team.

5. What does Lebron owe Cleveland? Lebron was in Cleveland 6-7 years, it didn't work out, his contract was up and he left. If anything Cleveland should be thanking them for making their team relevant for that period of time. You have to realize the NBA is a business. Players use teams and the teams use players. The min a player is past their prime and on the downslope of their career, how much respect do they get from their team? NONE. As soon as a player is on the downslope of their career most teams trade them to get whatever value they can while they still have some. So it goes both ways. Hell, even Michael Jordan got disrespected. He came out of retirement, played for the Wizards a couple years, as soon as he finished his contract, he was expecting to get his job back with the Wizards but NOPE, they fired him and told him to go his own way. That was right after Jordan made Washington relevant again.

4. I agree that he prob should of given his team a heads up, but then again going back to the business stand point. Why should he? How often do you think players are warned before they are traded. Some players don't know they have been traded until they see it on ESPN, when a player is traded he pretty much has to pick up his family and move just like that. Is that fair? Nope, it's business.

3. I agree, he should of given Cleveland a heads up about the decision. Maybe he didn't tell them because then it would of leaked out to the media ahead of time, who knows.

2. I don't know how you can hate on a guy for giving 3 million dollars to charity. How much money have YOU given to charity? We don't have to be rich to donate money so lets not battle over how much. I'm sure the people of the boys and girls club were just fine with 3 million dollars.

1. That's a complete personal opinion with NOTHING to back it up.



Once again you have to realize the NBA is a business. A team will crap on you just as fast as you can crap on them. It happens everyday.

I am pretty sure he promised them a title.

Tmath
11-24-2010, 05:20 PM
based on the prestigious opinions of PSD, right? :rolleyes:


Just cause you keep saying it, doesn't make it true...

as Ink said, there are reasons for the players you mentioned..

Kobe - off court problems in the past

LBJ - Personality and questionable antics

Crosby - probably in the states where the sheer fact that he's Canadian would cause some to 'hate'... he's beloved in Canada :shrug:

Arod - roids, personality

Brady - Stupid Gay-*** Bieber haircut :mad:

Not to mention he's banging one of the hottest babes on the planet.

fadedmario
11-24-2010, 05:23 PM
I still hate Lebron. I must be lame...

aman_13
11-24-2010, 05:29 PM
First off I respect you opinion and you actually took the time to compile a list to explain why.

Anyways to play devils advocate to your list....

6. Explain how 27 ppg 9 rb 7 *** avg is "quitting on a team." Even in game 6 Lebron had 19 rebounds w/ 10 assists! Plus he played 40+ min per night. If that's quitting on a team then I guess I would want that type of quitter on my team.

5. What does Lebron owe Cleveland? Lebron was in Cleveland 6-7 years, it didn't work out, his contract was up and he left. If anything Cleveland should be thanking them for making their team relevant for that period of time. You have to realize the NBA is a business. Players use teams and the teams use players. The min a player is past their prime and on the downslope of their career, how much respect do they get from their team? NONE. As soon as a player is on the downslope of their career most teams trade them to get whatever value they can while they still have some. So it goes both ways. Hell, even Michael Jordan got disrespected. He came out of retirement, played for the Wizards a couple years, as soon as he finished his contract, he was expecting to get his job back with the Wizards but NOPE, they fired him and told him to go his own way. That was right after Jordan made Washington relevant again.

4. I agree that he prob should of given his team a heads up, but then again going back to the business stand point. Why should he? How often do you think players are warned before they are traded. Some players don't know they have been traded until they see it on ESPN, when a player is traded he pretty much has to pick up his family and move just like that. Is that fair? Nope, it's business.

3. I agree, he should of given Cleveland a heads up about the decision. Maybe he didn't tell them because then it would of leaked out to the media ahead of time, who knows.

2. I don't know how you can hate on a guy for giving 3 million dollars to charity. How much money have YOU given to charity? We don't have to be rich to donate money so lets not battle over how much. I'm sure the people of the boys and girls club were just fine with 3 million dollars.

1. That's a complete personal opinion with NOTHING to back it up.



Once again you have to realize the NBA is a business. A team will crap on you just as fast as you can crap on them. It happens everyday.

6. Lebron's overall numbers in that series was very good, but at one point in game 5 of that series, it seemed like Lebron had given up. I hate saying that because we really don't know what is going in someone's head, but you can just tell form his body language. He stopped asking for the ball and in situations where you would feel that he should take over, he didn't. He admit after the game that he wasn't himself, but there were times in game 6 where it looked like he was doing the same thing, almost like he was just going through the motions. I'm not too big on this reason for hating Lebron because like i said, you really don't know what is going on inside someone's head, but he certainly didn't look like the Lebron that we had saw in previous years in the playoffs when the team really needed him.

5. I don't think the fans are mad at Lebron for leaving. It was the way he left. Going on national tv to make a decision wasn't a smart move, especially when they showed the reactions of Cleveland fans when he said he is going to take his talents to South Beach. That was a huge slap in the face. Now of course even if he did leave on proper terms, there are still some fans that are going to be upset, and that is where your argument for number 5 make sense.

2. I agree with your point about the charity.

1. Also agree, the whole MJ comparisons are opinions. We don't know if he was actually going to be the next Jordan even if he had stayed, and a lot of people hated on him and wanted him to fail because the comparisons to Jordan. Fans always find a way to hate on a player. Even Jordan had his haters.

fadedmario
11-24-2010, 05:33 PM
Kobe is clearly the "King"

Il Mago 7
11-24-2010, 05:53 PM
Are You Serious? Ask A Cleveland Fan They Will Tell You

NYYCowboys
11-24-2010, 06:27 PM
Here are, in descending order, the reasons I hate LeBron James, and I think most of America does for these reasons as well:

6. He quit on his team. This is not speculation or conjecture, this is fact. Something happened between games 3 and 4 of the Eastern Conference Semis, and he just didn't care from that point on. Rajon Rondo was the best player in that series, and while he is fantastic, there is no excuse for a series in which he plays for LeBron James not to be the best player. If LeBron had gone all out, the Cavs would have beaten the Celtics, and maybe even the Lakers. Lebron, you are the reason the Cavs didn't win the title last year, not your teammates.

5. He quit on his city. Cleveland isn't the world's greatest city, we all know that. But this city adopted him as their own, he was a god to them. When you met someone from Cleveland, you brought up LeBron James and their faces lit up like a proud parent. He pronounced himself King James, promised to bring them a title, gave them hope that despite everything that had happened to them (Earnest Byner, Art Modell, Jose Mesa, Jordan over Ehlo, etc...) was just a precursor to the greatness that was to come. And then he left. Never even said goodbye. It almost seemed like he went out of his way to insult them (remember when he thanked Akron but never mentioned Cleveland?) This is America, he had every right to leave, but he lied to Cleveland. Don't ask to be treated like a savior when you aren't ready for the responsibility that comes with it.

4. He lied to the world. It was a foregone conclusion that he'd sign with Miami. Whether it happened at the '08 olympics or even during the playoffs, LeBron knew where he was going. That didn't stop him from stringing 5 other teams along. All of those teams built their offseasons towards bringing him in, little did they know they didn't really have a chance. Worst of all, he gave his old team no chance to rebuild. Had Cleveland known he wasn't coming back, they could have actually made some moves to try to rebuild. Nope, adding to his brand but increasing suspense was far more important to him than showing a bit of class and helping out the team that had done so much for him.

3. He embarrassed his city. Again, he had every right to leave, but an hour long television special about his destination on ESPN? Did he not realize the humiliation Cleveland must have felt when he basically said "you're not good enough for me". Say what you will about Kobe Bryant, but he would have never done this. And to not call the Cavs before going on the air? Just absolutely classless. Speaking of The Decision...

2. He exploited a charity. This is something that REALLY bothers me. He figured by raising money for the boys and girls club, there wouldn't be a backlash to doing The Decision. 3 million dollars is chump change to LeBron James, if he really cared about the boys and girls club he could have donated that money himself. Using a charitable organization as a front to stroke your enormous ego and humiliate your city is just wrong. One of the worst things I've ever seen an athlete do. If this were any other athlete I'd make this #1, but there's something specific to LeBron James that really hurts me the most.

1. He quit on himself. Of all the emotions I feel towards LeBron James, disappointment is the worst. While we may hate that he left and hate how he did it, I think most of all we're all disappointed because we wanted so much more for him. This is a guy that not only Cleveland, but all of America, maybe even the whole world, saw as potentially the greatest athlete of all time. There has never been and there may never be a more physically gifted athlete than LeBron James. Since before his career began, he was anointed King James, hailed as the man who would surpass Jordan. For 7 years we watched him grow into a player not only with incredible talents, but enormous skill and an attitude that made his teammates love and admire him. He may not have had Jordan's (or even Kobe's) killer instinct, but he had everything else necessary to become the greatest of all time. And then he threw it away. He admitted that he couldn't do it on his own (as the other greats had), so he decided to ride the coattails of someone who had, Dwyane Wade. We all wanted to be witnesses, to say we saw LeBron James take over the league and become the GOAT, and when we saw him join Dwyane Wade we all scoffed. Michael Jordan would NEVER do this. A truly great athlete is not only a great player, but someone who was the will and determination to fight through the bad times, someone who can become such a singular force that even superior teams welt before them. This is what I will never forgive in LeBron James. I wanted to see him be the greatest of all time, I wanted to see him win 7 championships, but most of all, I wanted to see him do it the way Jordan did, as the undisputed leader of his team. He admitted that he either couldn't or wouldn't do it the right way, choosing the easy way instead, and that is what I hate most about LeBron.

Deep down, I think these are the reasons we hate LeBron. The article hit most of it right on the head.

One of the best posts I've ever seen on PSD. So insightful, and true. I actually enjoyed reading this. :clap:

ink
11-24-2010, 06:32 PM
Good post to end on. It's obvious the thread is going sideways. We tried to leave it open but then the inflammatory posts started.