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Bullsfan22
11-23-2010, 11:37 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AsCwkNZydtWTVt_m1Jo_68k5nYcB?slug=aw-kobebryantchat112310


Well beyond his most trying personal test, Bryant sees the growth within his professional self in the oddest moments and times. Just a week ago, on a cold night in Milwaukee, he had gone to the scorers table to substitute for Shannon Brown(notes). Only, Brown was hot. He hit a 3-pointer, and another, and another, and soon
Bryant – waiting to check into the game with Lamar Odom(notes) – told Odom that he should take out
Luke Walton(notes), and Bryant would get Matt Barnes
(notes).


Said Bryant: “Because now I understand: ‘Let him go; let him ride that.’ Back in my younger days, I never would’ve thought about that.”

Ask him what he embraces in his early 30s that he never understood in his 20s, and there’s no hesitation: It’s what everyone insisted he had been a failure with, a perception that he has transformed with two post-Shaquille O’Neal(notes) championships.

“How to truly make players better, what that really means,” he said. “It’s not just passing to your guys and getting them shots. It’s not getting this or that many players into double figures. That’s bull[expletive]. That’s not how you win championships. You’ve got to change the culture of your team – that’s how you truly make guys better. In a way, you have to help them to get the same DNA that you have, the same focus you have, maybe even close to the same drive. That’s how you make guys better.

“I’ve never understood this stuff, where a star player sits out and a team goes into the tank. Well, they need him because he makes them better. Well, if he’s making them better, they should be able to survive without him. That’s how you lead your guys. You’ve got to be able to make guys suffice on their own, without you. If you’re there all the time and they take you away, they shouldn’t need a respirator.

“Once I understood all that, I looked at things completely different. I took my hands off. I didn’t try to control them. I let them make decisions, make their own [expletive]-ups and I was there to try and help them through it.”
How do you guys define making your teammates better and do your teams star player do it the same or differently from Kobe?

xbrackattackx
11-23-2010, 12:12 PM
I love Kobe.

Sly Guy
11-23-2010, 12:15 PM
Making your team better = leadership?

I think that's partially true, but learning by watching the best is important a well, as is getting everyone involved. It's more than just kobe says.

Gibby23
11-23-2010, 12:17 PM
Making your team better = leadership?

I think that's partially true, but learning by watching the best is important a well, as is getting everyone involved. It's more than just kobe says.

Getting guys open shots doesn't have anything to do with making a player better. Look at what happened to Shannon Brown, he worked hard this Summer, took some advice from Kobe and Phil on what he should work on, and is alot better this year.

Sly Guy
11-23-2010, 12:25 PM
see, I don't know about that. Getting players a few 'chippies' can give them confidence and start rolling. Having a player know he's going to get the ball in a place to score can make them feel more comfortable and confident on the floor which will help them progress as a player and give them the confidence to grow their skillset.

getting advice is part of it as well, that's part of what I meant by 'watching the best'

hvg
11-23-2010, 12:42 PM
It's understanding that it's your responsibility to carry your teammates and not the other way around. And then using your best assets to make it happen. Kobe's greatest asset is his drive and dedication, and he can channel that to make his teammates better. For someone like Magic, it may have simply meant getting his teammates easy buckets and getting them going.

sp1derm00
11-23-2010, 01:43 PM
Ariza and Shannon are two perfect examples of what Kobe's leadership has been about in recent years.

It's no secret that Kobe wasn't ready to be a leader until later in his career, but he has really grown into that role.

From Kobe taking Ariza under his wing and improving his shooting to Kobe about to come in for Shannon, but noticing that Shannon was hot and subbing Barnes out instead.

This is a huge contrast from Kobe passing Smush the ball during the playoffs and yelling at him to "do something", or calling out Andrew Bynum with his "ship his *** out" comment.

HUGE difference.

Hawkeye15
11-23-2010, 01:48 PM
I think you lead in many ways. Off court workouts, coming into the season in game shape. Being vocal and serious from day 1. Leading by example on the floor, not taking plays off, and expecting your teammates to do the same. I agree with much of what Kobe says here, changing the culture. Teams that expect to win, and anything else is a failure that is flat out unacceptable, are perennial winners. But it doesn't just come from Kobe, or Derek Jeter for instance. Its the entire organization. Buss, West, Phil Jackson, etc. Its expected if you sign with the Lakers, or get traded there, that you win.
Kobe has shown to be a good leader. But we also need to look up and down that roster and realize that they can win a ton of games without him. Many stars simply don't have that luxury.

Joshtd1
11-23-2010, 02:06 PM
I think the phrase "making players better" isn't the best saying IMO. For example, I don't think Tim Duncan or Kobe Bryant or whatever other superstar you want to name makes other players better. A player is going to have his skillset, and if they get better its because they put the work in. I think the superstars sure as hell make life easier for others because they get them shots/looks they wouldn't get on their own.

Maybe the phrase should be "make players look better". Do we really think Chris Paul makes David West a better player skill wise? I know I don't, I think West wouldhave same skill set, it's just he's on a different team...but with CP3 he gets so many wide open looks that he most likely wouldn't get on a team with say Gilbert Arenas at PG, or whatever team doesn't have a great passing PG.

Hawkeye15
11-23-2010, 02:12 PM
I think the phrase "making players better" isn't the best saying IMO. For example, I don't think Tim Duncan or Kobe Bryant or whatever other superstar you want to name makes other players better. A player is going to have his skillset, and if they get better its because they put the work in. I think the superstars sure as hell make life easier for others because they get them shots/looks they wouldn't get on their own.

Maybe the phrase should be "make players look better". Do we really think Chris Paul makes David West a better player skill wise? I know I don't, I think West wouldhave same skill set, it's just he's on a different team...but with CP3 he gets so many wide open looks that he most likely wouldn't get on a team with say Gilbert Arenas at PG, or whatever team doesn't have a great passing PG.

agree. But do you not agree when Kobe's teammates show up and Kobe is already there in the gym, sweating his butt off, or when they are leaving, and Kobe is shooting jumpers, that it doesn't set in motion a team working harder individually?
Larry Bird did the same thing in Boston. His teammates saw their superstar outworking anyone they had played with, and it gets to them. They eventually put more into preparation, hence, their games get better.
I think THAT is Kobe's biggest leadership quality. He demands the best out of himself. How can any teammate of a player like Kobe not have some of that work ethic eventually splash them in the face?

Joshtd1
11-23-2010, 02:16 PM
agree. But do you not agree when Kobe's teammates show up and Kobe is already there in the gym, sweating his butt off, or when they are leaving, and Kobe is shooting jumpers, that it doesn't set in motion a team working harder individually?
Larry Bird did the same thing in Boston. His teammates saw their superstar outworking anyone they had played with, and it gets to them. They eventually put more into preparation, hence, their games get better.
I think THAT is Kobe's biggest leadership quality. He demands the best out of himself. How can any teammate of a player like Kobe not have some of that work ethic eventually splash them in the face?

Some players just might be content with being who they are and relying on their stars to get them shots. However, I still don't think Kobe shooting jumpers and working makes the other player better..its still up to the guy to actually put in work.

I don't know, the only thing I could think of making a player better is if they specifically mentor/tutor them, showing them the ropes. But when it comes to actually playing in a game, my main point was I think superstars just make other players look better, but not affect their skillset.

Hawkeye15
11-23-2010, 02:23 PM
Some players just might be content with being who they are and relying on their stars to get them shots. However, I still don't think Kobe shooting jumpers and working makes the other player better..its still up to the guy to actually put in work.

I don't know, the only thing I could think of making a player better is if they specifically mentor/tutor them, showing them the ropes. But when it comes to actually playing in a game, my main point was I think superstars just make other players look better, but not affect their skillset.

all good points. But I still think if the star sets a culture of, "we do NOT lose here", all incoming players tend to understand that and take their game more serious. Fact is, there are leaders and followers in this world.

Hawkeye15
11-23-2010, 02:24 PM
furthermore, if an ORGANIZATION presents the culture of not losing, and you have your star buy into it, your team is that much better

Joshtd1
11-23-2010, 02:38 PM
all good points. But I still think if the star sets a culture of, "we do NOT lose here", all incoming players tend to understand that and take their game more serious. Fact is, there are leaders and followers in this world.

I agree with that, but then again taking your game more seriously doesn't neccessarily make you a better player. It may make the team better as a whole because they have that focus, individually I still can't see a player becoming better skill set wise.

Im not arguing with you on the leadership point, because it is true. My biggest point was just skill set, because when I think of a player getting better, I think of his individual game.

Like how people say Nash made Amare better..I don't think Nash made Amare any different skill set wise, I think Nash just made life for Amare much easier and made him look better, then actually being a better player. Only when Amare got injured did he sort of develop a jumper....did Nash make Amare develop it? Nope, Amare did it by himself therefor making himself better.

Gibby23
11-23-2010, 02:45 PM
I agree with that, but then again taking your game more seriously doesn't neccessarily make you a better player. It may make the team better as a whole because they have that focus, individually I still can't see a player becoming better skill set wise.

Im not arguing with you on the leadership point, because it is true. My biggest point was just skill set, because when I think of a player getting better, I think of his individual game.

Like how people say Nash made Amare better..I don't think Nash made Amare any different skill set wise, I think Nash just made life for Amare much easier and made him look better, then actually being a better player. Only when Amare got injured did he sort of develop a jumper....did Nash make Amare develop it? Nope, Amare did it by himself therefor making himself better.

If some players had more focus, they would be better on the court with the skill set they have and it would reflect in the stats of that player. Alot of players have the same skill level, but the drive and focus take you to the next step, there are some players with NBA skill that never make it to the NBA because they don't have focus.

RaiderLakersA's
11-23-2010, 03:06 PM
Great topic, but pardon this sidebar...did Kobe just say that he changed Jackson's substitution package at the scorer's table, substituting himself for Barnes instead of Brown??? Ha! True definition of "like having a coach on the floor" if ever there was one.

Back to the topic.

Making other players better speaks to more than just putting someone in the position to utilize their current skill sets, but also challenging them in ways that help better mask or eliminate their shortcomings. It's skill set + mindset, all focused on success of the team.