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View Full Version : Bosh Isnt The Heat's Only Problem.



JasonJohnHorn
11-23-2010, 09:53 AM
Bosh has been shouldering a lot of the blame for the Heat's not-so-spectacular start (which includes two straight losses to sub .500 teams). Haslem's injury isnt going to help since he has consistently been the team's best rebounder this season, but perhaps the biggest reason for the Heat's slow start: James

LeBron James is putting up the worst 3P% of his career this season? And lowest FG% since his rookie season? And his lowest rebounding numbers ever? And the most turnovers of his career?

I realize most fairly expected LBJ's scoring numbers to dip as he would be sharing the ball (the guy has never been selfish in my eyes, and loves to set up his teammates), but I dont think the Heat were expecting numbers like this when they sign LBJ this past summer.

DitchDat
11-23-2010, 09:56 AM
It's because Wade and LBJ are going playground all the time. This is not a team with a system, the Heat are two superstars with other guys standing around wearing Heat unis.

DitchDat
11-23-2010, 09:58 AM
...and no focus on defense or complementary play

OA SLAY
11-23-2010, 10:08 AM
Pat never realized the 1 and 5 positions are your anchors on offense and D!

ignorance=bliss
11-23-2010, 10:09 AM
And does that suprise you?

Did you watch some Cleveland games? Thats all he knows. Give me the ball, and watch me work. Too bad any decent defense can completly eliminate LBJ on offense. He's just that type of player. He needs the ball in his hands at all times to be affective. Which is kind the same way D-Wade is, except he is better, so why it's a suprise to see these two Super-ego's are having troubles sharing the rock?

tcav701
11-23-2010, 10:10 AM
The Heat bench had 4 points last night.

That is the problem.

Rentzias
11-23-2010, 10:26 AM
The Heat bench had 4 points last night.

That is the problem.

This. If you look at Garnett's numbers when he went Big 3, the drop was similar to Bosh's, factoring in that Bosh is joining with two #1 scorers, where Garnett wasn't.

Agar81
11-23-2010, 10:37 AM
It's what I said from the beginning. A team with Wade and James will never work, as they are the same type of player who constantly needs the ball in their hands. Not to mention, Pat laid an egg with the center and PG positions where he insists to start two old scrubs. They probably would be more successful with the defensive oriented Anthony and a younger and faster PG in Chalmers

path2zion
11-23-2010, 10:40 AM
Karma is a biotch. My faith in the lord has been restores.

ManRam
11-23-2010, 10:43 AM
I think james is the least of their problems. He at least shows some passion when he plays. Obviously bosh isn't their only problem; I don't think anyone believes that. Wade has been inconsistent, LeBron has an inconsistent role, they've dealt with injuries, their bench lost the game last nighr (along with Wade) and they are getting poor coaching. Oh yeah...and their defense is flawed.

But again...LeBron isn't someone you should single out. It's a bigger problem and he has been their best player...and as proof last night, he seems to be the only one fired up all the time.

ManRam
11-23-2010, 10:44 AM
I think james is the least of their problems. He at least shows some passion when he plays. Obviously bosh isn't their only problem; I don't think anyone believes that. Wade has been inconsistent, LeBron has an inconsistent role, they've dealt with injuries, their bench lost the game last nighr (along with Wade) and they are getting poor coaching. Oh yeah...and their defense is flawed.

But again...LeBron isn't someone you should single out. It's a bigger problem and he has been their best player...and as proof last night, he seems to be the only one fired up all the time.

Double_R
11-23-2010, 10:51 AM
The Heat bench had 4 points last night.

That is the problem.

That is more than Wade had in 38 minutes(1-13 fg, 1-5 FT, 0-4 3pt) 3pts, 5 TO, +/- -18
Bosh had a +/- -20 last night, maybe he has something to do with it as well.

tcav701
11-23-2010, 10:57 AM
That is more than Wade had in 38 minutes(1-13 fg, 1-5 FT, 0-4 3pt) 3pts, 5 TO, +/- -18
Bosh had a +/- -20 last night, maybe he has something to do with it as well.

In last nights game absolutely.

The 3 are not going always gonna have a great night. To me, the bigger problem is the bench because they might be consistently bad the way it is constructed now. Obviously Miller and Haslem out has much to do with this but it's sad when you lose games big when two allstars put up big numbers.

Unless all 3 guys have great games, they are at risk of losing because of their depleted and geriatric bench.

ttam68
11-23-2010, 10:58 AM
Wades playing even worse

jp611
11-23-2010, 11:12 AM
remember when people were saying they'd beat the bulls record? at this rate they'll be lucky to make the playoffs

Double_R
11-23-2010, 11:35 AM
In last nights game absolutely.

The 3 are not going always gonna have a great night. To me, the bigger problem is the bench because they might be consistently bad the way it is constructed now. Obviously Miller and Haslem out has much to do with this but it's sad when you lose games big when two allstars put up big numbers.

Unless all 3 guys have great games, they are at risk of losing because of their depleted and geriatric bench.

Last night is obviously one game, but it's pretty much a microcosm of their season. Every single game Lebron has dominated the ball and the stats, but it is truly effecting Wade's performance. I know they have a weak bench, but they seem to be the least of the problem, since they are the easiest to replace. My whole thing with the Heat is that Lebron and Wade both have to have the ball to be effective and neither are good playing off the ball, since neither are above average shooters(streaky, but not great) and they are having trouble finding a medium that allows both of their games to consistently be effective. I think that is their biggest key to success, finding a way that Lebron and Wade can play together, while still getting Bosh his touches in an efficient way.

beasted86
11-23-2010, 11:46 AM
Bosh is a problem?

He's averaging 17.4 PPG / 7.2 REB on 51% FG on a career low minutes per game.

Where is the problem?

PlezPlayDKnicks
11-23-2010, 11:46 AM
Where are the Heat fans? It seems like the usual suspects always hide after losses.... Only the real ones take their lumps after losses. Miami will be fine against mediocre teams and lose to great teams...

ManRam
11-23-2010, 11:46 AM
remember when people were saying they'd beat the bulls record? at this rate they'll be lucky to make the playoffs

Really? Lucky to make the playoffs? That's a bit of an over-exaggeration, eh?

ManRam
11-23-2010, 11:51 AM
Bosh is a problem?

He's averaging 17.4 PPG / 7.2 REB on 51% FG.

Where is the problem?

That's the problem. Points, rebounds and FG% are what makes you a great player. The problem is he's a SG in a PF's body. They NEED him to play in the post more. It's an absolute necessity. He also is playing really poor defense. The way this team is constructed when Bosh is shooting 15 foot jumpers all night isn't going to get it done. It's nothing more than a jump shooting team, and that will NEVER get you far enough. The way Bosh is playing is hurting them, not helping them. He can put up what ever numbers he wants he wants, but it's HOW he scores them, and WHERE he scores them that matters the most.

The have no inside play. The have no inside-outside play. They have no outside-inside play. It's all outside, and that won't get it down. Wade and LeBron (to a lesser extent) aren't even trying to get to the paint nearly as much as they have and should.

JordansBulls
11-23-2010, 11:51 AM
Everyone brings there "A" game for this team.

PlezPlayDKnicks
11-23-2010, 11:51 AM
Bosh is a problem?

He's averaging 17.4 PPG / 7.2 REB on 51% FG on a career low minutes per game.

Where is the problem?

The problem is that u guys are 8-6... No Heat fans would've believed u guys losin 6 games b4 December.. I think u guys will be fine but I'm glad the losin has silenced the obnoxious bandwagoners

beasted86
11-23-2010, 11:53 AM
With Miller & Haslem out, the bench can't be giving you 4 points and 10 rebounds. That's disgusting numbers considering 4 guys played 15 minutes or more.

If Wade or one of the big 3 are having a bad game, the bench has to step up.

beasted86
11-23-2010, 11:55 AM
The problem is that u guys are 8-6... No Heat fans would've believed u guys losin 6 games b4 December.. I think u guys will be fine but I'm glad the losin has silenced the obnoxious bandwagoners

Yeah, I understand all that... but with the topic title you insinuated that much of the blame is on Bosh.

Well by his statline, this is about what we expected out of him.

I thought he'd give us about 18/10, and he's pretty close to expectations.

beasted86
11-23-2010, 12:04 PM
That's the problem. Points, rebounds and FG% are what makes you a great player. The problem is he's a SG in a PF's body. They NEED him to play in the post more. It's an absolute necessity. He also is playing really poor defense. The way this team is constructed when Bosh is shooting 15 foot jumpers all night isn't going to get it done. It's nothing more than a jump shooting team, and that will NEVER get you far enough. The way Bosh is playing is hurting them, not helping them. He can put up what ever numbers he wants he wants, but it's HOW he scores them, and WHERE he scores them that matters the most.

The have no inside play. The have no inside-outside play. They have no outside-inside play. It's all outside, and that won't get it down. Wade and LeBron (to a lesser extent) aren't even trying to get to the paint nearly as much as they have and should.
Well I'm not sure if you've been watching the Heat, but Bosh has been doing his job. I think the refs aren't giving him the respect he deserves and he's not getting the calls he should... but even given those circumstances the last couple games he has been one of our best players... and that's all that was expected out of him, to be a consistent force in the paint on the offensive end, and play decent defense.

His defense has also got a bad rap. He's put into the same exact situation as he had in Toronto. The PG & C are total liabilities and cause him to have to play weakside more than on ball, and constantly get caught out on rotations.

Aside from Millsap's crazy night where Bosh actually made him take shots he's not supposed to be taking (3s), not many of these opposing PFs are taking advantage of Bosh 1 on 1 in isolation. These guys are hitting spot up jumpers after Bosh rotates, or are crashing the boards because our Centers can't rebound themselves (just like TO). Overall Bosh's performance both offensively and defensively has met up to expectations.

On the other hand Wade's defense has been poor the last couple to go along with his offense, and LeBron's defense has been lax. These guys were supposed to help cover up our PG & C's deficiencies, and they aren't getting it done with their ability to block shots, and/or rebound, and/or play the passing lane, and/or play on-ball lock down defense.

xbrackattackx
11-23-2010, 12:07 PM
I don't blame Bosh, Or the Coach, Or Lebron. I think the team still needs to find its identity then it will be fine. And Sign a couple of more pieces like a good Big Man. Not Old ones.

Yanks All Day
11-23-2010, 12:10 PM
LeBron's numbers are suffering because his teammates aren't stepping up. He's the only one on the Heat playing at a high level. Bosh is coming on a bit, but Wade has been awful. He looks so uncomfortable playing second fiddle to LeBron that he just takes the ball and looks for his own shots whenever he can. No big man + no bench (right now) + 2/3 stars playing WAY below their talent levels is the Heat's problem. LeBron is the very least of the issue.

Hunter48MVP
11-23-2010, 12:18 PM
Wade and LeBron can't work with each other. I knew the Heat are overrated and I stick with my prediction with the Heat going 23-59.

ackar
11-23-2010, 12:22 PM
See herein lies the Heats main issue. When they win the superstars won but when they lose it is someone else s fault. They are not a team and that is their true problem until they unite and play as a whole team accept and respect each others roles they will be mediocre at best.

If they ever figure it out they will be tough to beat but they are beatable.

Teeboy1487
11-23-2010, 12:24 PM
The heat's biggest problems are lack of size and lack of bench. I think Bosh will get it together and play with more consistency but the Heat's lack of size and lack of bench will come back to haunt them against the Elite. However, they will play better though

Hiphopopotamus
11-23-2010, 12:28 PM
I think the chemistry is all wrong. Wade-LBJ-Bosh combo doesn't mix. This was always true, it's just that many thought that the 3 of them would put aside ego to make this work. They may still do that, who knows? But when I've watched them they have always seemed to just take turns with the ball not a team approach. Bosh doesn't seem like a right fit...they didn't need his scoring with LBJ and Wade, they needed a dirty grimy lunch pail PF. They may have been better off spreading his salary around to create more depth and starting Haslem. That being said, I also think the 3 of them took the league lightly and thought this would be a cakewalk despite what they say now. They weren't prepped for everyone giving them their best shot. Can't take any team in the nBA lightly..not the the Clips, Wolves, etc...they all have players.

Double_R
11-23-2010, 12:29 PM
I think the problem is that there are many problems... Just about every poster in this thread has said something different(Bosh, Wade/Lebron, the Bench, their lack of size, lack of accountability, no cohesion/chemistry, etc...). They will be good, but I am beginning to question how good.

C-Dub
11-23-2010, 12:33 PM
i dont think bosh is the problem at all. i think if it were just wade and bosh and some great role players that this team would be way better than with the big 3. i been saying that since lbj went there so im glad i look 'right' so far that they wont work out like everyone thought

justinnum1
11-23-2010, 12:33 PM
you all would have wanted the 3 on your teams, so please. These guys are playing like **** right now. Our 2 injured guys just happen to be critical to our core. And our coach is worthless. You all can get your ***** and giggles in now. But in a few months, things are going to be a lot different.

Gibby23
11-23-2010, 12:36 PM
you all would have wanted the 3 on your teams, so please. These guys are playing like **** right now. Our 2 injured guys just happen to be critical to our core. And our coach is worthless. You all can get your ***** and giggles in now. But in a few months, things are going to be a lot different.

Like what? A 4 seed isn't going to make it to the finals. We are going to see the same standing around while Lebron or Wade beat the ball into the ground until there is about 8 seconds left on the shot clock.

RaiderLakersA's
11-23-2010, 12:40 PM
Outside looking in: The team has been overhyped and as a consequence the losses are magnified.

The view from the inside: I'm willing to bet that Riley knew all of this going into the deal. He probably already cautioned LeBron and Bosh before bringing them in that they won't have all of the pieces in place until the second or third year. The first year would be for the core to come together, find chemistry and solidify. Given the talents of the 3 and the fact that they're playing in the East, a playoff push wouldn't be entirely out of the question that first season, but the realistic goal of a championship likely was a year or two away at least. No matter what happens, ignore the pundits, keep your head, be patient, and work hard towards getting better as a core unit.

Or maybe Riley didn't say any of that and I just think that he did?

RaiderLakersA's
11-23-2010, 12:46 PM
you all would have wanted the 3 on your teams, so please.

No, not necessarily. I wouldn't take Bosh over Gasol. I wouldn't take Wade over Kobe. I might take LeBron to fill in as a hybrid Artest/Fisher...but I think fans around the league would truly HATE the Lakers even more if that had happened. And no, I don't see a core of Kobe, Pau and LeBron being a .500 team ever, given the structure of the Triangle and with P. Jackson as the head coach. So count your blessings.

The Heat will be fine. If not this year, the next. Give them time. They aren't done evolving as a team, if you ask me.

Hiphopopotamus
11-23-2010, 12:50 PM
you all would have wanted the 3 on your teams, so please. These guys are playing like **** right now. Our 2 injured guys just happen to be critical to our core. And our coach is worthless. You all can get your ***** and giggles in now. But in a few months, things are going to be a lot different.

Nope, I would take LBJ or Wade independent of each other, but I wouldn't want the 3 and I have no use for a PF who is scared of the paint.

29$JerZ
11-23-2010, 01:19 PM
The team still isn't complete.

You may not need a PG with LeBron on the floor but until he actually runs the offense you need a 3pt/defensive PG.

FadeAwayLikeMJ
11-23-2010, 01:31 PM
Ease up guys, you're really upsetting Heat fans.

JasonJohnHorn
11-23-2010, 01:32 PM
For those who say Bosh inst a problem, I have to respectfully diagree. I am a TO fan (though more a fan of the game) and I have respect for Bosh and not ill feelings toward him for leaving TO. The situation was awful there for him, and went from good to bad to worse as his career there progressed.

But bottom line, he is supposed to be their best player in the front court. He is supposed to be posting double-doubles every night, and he's supposed to be keeping the other guys off the blocks and making them work for their buckets. He's not doing either. I dont think Miami needs him to score much beyond the high teens, and he's doing that, but the need him to be the BEST rebounder on the team and one of the best rebounders in the league, much as Garnett was with the T-Wolves and Boston. And they need some defence on the blocks, which their centers should also be providing. So far in the season, Haslem, Bosh's back up, has been the better rebounder and defender.

Those who note the bench needs to step up. You are right, but one cant blame a bench the is made entirely of vet min. wages to be that good, especially when two guys who should be starting are out (Miller should be starting on the wing with James, and Haslem should be starting at center in the front court with Bosh). That means two of the benches best players are starting right now due to injury, making their already thin bench thinner, yet the coach still doesnt play Stackhouse, or Anthony or Chambers, all of who got DNP: CD last night, meaning that as much as the bench is a problem, so is the coaching, because the best guy off the bench for interior D didnt get any minutes, and your best scorer off the bench didnt get any minutes either.

As for Wade and LBJ. Wade's FG% is his lowest ever, his assist-to-turnover ration is purid, a poor 1-1, the worst of his career, and his only saving grace is that he's having his best rebounding season yet. James, as we discussed, is getting some of the worst numbers of his career.

The point. There are too many problems to count with this Miami team, and my point was that while Bosh is a problem, he is far from their only problem.

The Cavs were a team that grew organically around James over the course of several years. The Heat are a team of hired guns, guys who (for the most part) never played together. Pat likley thought that because he put a title winning team together with some junk pieces in the way of ring chasing vets together around Wade and Shaq, he could do the same with James, Bosh and Wade, but the botton line: a team needs to grow together. Just throwing a bunch of pieces together doesnt work.

Problems in Miami? The bench. Coaching. Interior D and rebounding. LBJ. Wade. Bosh. If they get all those fixed they will be headed to a championship, and soon! Oh, and a good PG and center would help a lot as well.

John Walls Era
11-23-2010, 01:33 PM
That is more than Wade had in 38 minutes(1-13 fg, 1-5 FT, 0-4 3pt) 3pts, 5 TO, +/- -18
Bosh had a +/- -20 last night, maybe he has something to do with it as well.

+/- is the worst stat. I think Bosh played alright last night. Wade sucked.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-23-2010, 01:41 PM
Wade and LeBron can't work with each other. I knew the Heat are overrated and I stick with my prediction with the Heat going 23-59.

lulz that would be a tragedy

John Walls Era
11-23-2010, 01:46 PM
This team would be much better if Lebron didn't take his talents to south beach. Should've just stayed in Cleveland (like you promised in past). Wade and Bosh plus some money to actually sign some players would've made a much more balanced team. On paper this team is amazing, but so far its been a bust.

PlezPlayDKnicks
11-23-2010, 01:57 PM
This thread is 3 pages. When the Heat were destroying some teams it was rediculous how many pages of U MAD???? and we are gonna be a dynasty. LMAO

Bigbadmoffo
11-23-2010, 03:30 PM
I think james is the least of their problems. He at least shows some passion when he plays. Obviously bosh isn't their only problem; I don't think anyone believes that. Wade has been inconsistent, LeBron has an inconsistent role, they've dealt with injuries, their bench lost the game last nighr (along with Wade) and they are getting poor coaching. Oh yeah...and their defense is flawed.

But again...LeBron isn't someone you should single out. It's a bigger problem and he has been their best player...and as proof last night, he seems to be the only one fired up all the time.

Can't be a champ if you can't overcome.

D1JM
11-23-2010, 03:32 PM
The Heat bench had 4 points last night.

That is the problem.

The heats bench scored more than wade though

Bigbadmoffo
11-23-2010, 03:33 PM
This thread is 3 pages. When the Heat were destroying some teams it was rediculous how many pages of U MAD???? and we are gonna be a dynasty. LMAO

Nobody knows for certain that the heat will be a dinasty. Wade could break a leg or lebron. They may never get the chemistry anything could happend. Until Miami starts dominating and winning consistenly they're just a subpar team end of story.

tcav701
11-23-2010, 03:41 PM
The heats bench scored more than wade though

Wade scoring 3 won't happen very often.

The Heat bench could score in single digits regularly w/o Miller and Haslem.

The bench will be the issue going foward.

FairWeatherFan?
11-23-2010, 03:49 PM
Feel free to flame at will, but Miami, #6 in particular, would be much better off with someone like Varejao then they are with Bosh.

Tony_Starks
11-23-2010, 03:55 PM
You guys are aware that every game the Heat plays is like a championship game for the other (sub par) team right?......... People are so quick to hit the panic button but no one talks about how they are getting the defending champ treatment, teams are circling the calendar when they come to town.

HuRRiCaNeS324
11-23-2010, 04:00 PM
Lol all you guys do is reiterate everything. All these Heat threads say the same thing....

"Heat suck"
"I knew it wasn't gonna work"
"LULZ DA HEAT BANDWAGGONERZ TOT DEY WER GONNA BEAT TEH BULLZ RECORD LULZ"
"There bench sucks"
"They lack size"
"There PG is horrendous"
"WE ARE ALL THE HEAT FANS NOW LULZ"
"They're soft"
"Bosh was overpaid, he sucks"
"Wade and Lebron dont work with each other"
"They'll be lucky to make it to .500"


I honestly cant blame a lot of you guys for talking crap from all the bandwagoners that were here talking a lot of ****, but what some of you are saying is downright stupid.

HuRRiCaNeS324
11-23-2010, 04:09 PM
This thread is 3 pages. When the Heat were destroying some teams it was rediculous how many pages of U MAD???? and we are gonna be a dynasty. LMAO

95% of those threads were all of you hating on us. You people swear we have like 500 fans on this site. We are far out numbered and theres 1000000 times more **** talking from the haters than the boasters.