PDA

View Full Version : Joey Votto Wins NL MVP



DaSox_05
11-22-2010, 03:05 PM
Per 670thescore in Chicago

Looking for link now.

http://bbwaa.com/


CINCINNATI -- Often reluctant to discuss his own personal accomplishments, Reds first baseman Joey Votto has done something that will speak volumes for him over the remainder of his career.

Votto was named the National League's Most Valuable Player on Monday.

In balloting that took place at the end of the regular season by the Baseball Writers' Association of America, Votto received 31 out of a possible 32 first-place votes and 433 points to earn his first MVP trophy. It prevented Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols from winning his third in a row and fourth overall.

Although he was the NL Silver Slugger and Gold Glove winner at first base, Pujols was second in MVP voting with 279 points, netting one first-place vote. Rockies outfielder Carlos Gonzalez was next with 240 points.

Votto, 27, is the 12th Reds player to win the NL MVP Award and the first since Barry Larkin in 1995.

Clearly, the voters did not penalize Votto for not leading any of the three Triple Crown categories. Gonzalez won the batting title with a .336 average and Pujols had the most home runs (42) and RBIs (118).

Still, Votto finished among the top three in 11 offensive statistical categories and was first in important stats like slugging percentage (.600) and on-base percentage (.424). He was second in the NL with a .324 average and was third in both home runs, with 37, and RBIs, with 113 -- all career highs. He was tied for fourth with 106 runs scored, was sixth with 177 hits and fifth with 91 walks.

And perhaps most important, Votto helped get the Reds to the NL Central title and their first playoff berth since the Larkin-led club won the division in 1995.

In 2009, Votto was nationally known primarily for being a player who spent a month on the disabled list to deal with depression and anxiety caused by difficulties with his emotions following the sudden 2008 death of his father, Joseph. Even after returning and posting strong numbers with a .322 average and 25 homers, it happened well out of the spotlight since Cincinnati was out of contention.

This year, no one could ignore what Votto did on the field. After being left off of the original NL All-Star team, he made the squad after more than 13 million fans added him to the roster via the online All-Star Final Vote. On Aug. 30, Votto became the first Reds played to appear on the cover of Sports Illustrated since Ken Griffey Jr. in 2004.



http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101122&content_id=16171678&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Vottomatic19
11-22-2010, 03:08 PM
Congratulations Joey on your well-deserved Award!

Strike89
11-22-2010, 03:09 PM
Well deserved win for Votto. Congrats.

ritz
11-22-2010, 03:09 PM
:clap:

koldjerky
11-22-2010, 03:10 PM
:clap: w00t

CubsRule08
11-22-2010, 03:13 PM
Did the voters just get it right...AGAIN? Wow

More-Than-Most
11-22-2010, 03:19 PM
Lol wow they got it right... congrats Votto

TheRuckus
11-22-2010, 03:19 PM
Other than some of the horrendous picks for Gold Gloves, the voters are actually not embarrassing themselves this year.

Congrats to Votto, well deserved.

DieHardColtsfan
11-22-2010, 03:20 PM
Well deserved!

sexicano31
11-22-2010, 03:21 PM
Phils with 3 in the top 10: Halladay, Werth, Howard. Very nice and good looks votto

Hunter48MVP
11-22-2010, 03:23 PM
Congrats :clap:

Pierzynski4Prez
11-22-2010, 03:23 PM
Congrats to Votto and especially to the Reds for their great turnaround

Korman12
11-22-2010, 03:24 PM
Good for Votto. He deserved it, no buts about it

alchemist0123
11-22-2010, 03:33 PM
good to see a canuck winnning it, congrats.

Brew Crew
11-22-2010, 03:36 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me?

How did Jeter not win NL MVP?

ellisgw
11-22-2010, 03:38 PM
carlos should have won it. he has better average same rbi. he also can run better and throw better. he also played in a much in better pitching division.

metsfaninSTL
11-22-2010, 03:45 PM
votto only won because the reds made the playoffs. pujols won gold glove and silver slugger and lost the MVP.

mdlr52192
11-22-2010, 03:47 PM
Congrats to Votto.

el_primo_nano
11-22-2010, 03:49 PM
Good for him, hard work pays off. Cano better win his now :D

ritz
11-22-2010, 03:53 PM
carlos should have won it. he has better average same rbi. he also can run better and throw better. he also played in a much in better pitching division.

Maybe the writers decided to look at his home/away splits.

ugafan
11-22-2010, 03:55 PM
Maybe the writers decided to look at his home/away splits.
Or they looked at things that matter.


i just dont know how votto won when he plays the same position as the guy who is the best hitter and best fielder at that position

Not this year.

metsfaninSTL
11-22-2010, 03:57 PM
Or they looked at things that matter.


like making the playoffs which is the only reason votto won

TheRuckus
11-22-2010, 03:58 PM
like making the playoffs which is the only reason votto won

Regardless of why he won, he was better than Pujols this season.

Johann
11-22-2010, 03:59 PM
w00t canadian w00t

lol

metsfaninSTL
11-22-2010, 04:00 PM
Actually, he won because he was better than Pujols this season.

Nice try, though.

im not a votto hater. and i agree that voters get things wrong, im not saying this vote was wrong but they voted pujols as the best hitter at 1b and the best fielder at 1b. if he is the best at those 2 things shouldnt he have won?

EDIT: and i know that albert had a down year this season

ritz
11-22-2010, 04:04 PM
Or they looked at things that matter.

No way. The more RBI you have the better you are.

TheRuckus
11-22-2010, 04:04 PM
im not a votto hater. and i agree that voters get things wrong, im not saying this vote was wrong but they voted pujols as the best hitter at 1b and the best fielder at 1b. if he is the best at those 2 things shouldnt he have won?

EDIT: and i know that albert had a down year this season

The managers voted Pujols for the Glove and Slugger. The writers are the voters for MVP.

LakersA's49ers
11-22-2010, 04:07 PM
well deserved!

ugafan
11-22-2010, 04:07 PM
im not a votto hater. and i agree that voters get things wrong, im not saying this vote was wrong but they voted pujols as the best hitter at 1b and the best fielder at 1b. if he is the best at those 2 things shouldnt he have won?

EDIT: and i know that albert had a down year this season

Because he wasn't this year.
Griffey should have won MVP last year because he was really good earlier in his career.

MVP goes on a year-to-year basis and it's absolutely ridiculous for you to say that Votto didn't deserve the reward. You being from STL renders your opinion essentially worthless.

SouljahPhil...
11-22-2010, 04:08 PM
Congrats...well deserved...

Double_R
11-22-2010, 04:10 PM
Albert Pujols should have won this award... If Ryan Howard won it over Pujols the year that he won it, then Pujols should have won this one. Votto had a great season, but he isn't the most valuable player. THis just goes to show you how inconsistent the voting is.

One Nut Kruk
11-22-2010, 04:10 PM
Congats Joey Votto. Awesome year.

FWBrodie
11-22-2010, 04:11 PM
Deservedly so.

One Nut Kruk
11-22-2010, 04:11 PM
Albert Pujols should have won this award... If Ryan Howard won it over Pujols the year that he won it, then Pujols should have won this one. Votto had a great season, but he isn't the most valuable player. THis just goes to show you how inconsistent the voting is.

Yes, let's give an award to somebody because they got screwed over in a previous year. Good logic there. That would certainly make the voting more consistent......

Double_R
11-22-2010, 04:13 PM
Because he wasn't this year.
Griffey should have won MVP last year because he was really good earlier in his career.

MVP goes on a year-to-year basis and it's absolutely ridiculous for you to say that Votto didn't deserve the reward. You being from STL renders your opinion essentially worthless.

Comprehension is key to posting...I think he was making the point that Pujols had a down year and still put up better numbers in many categories.

Double_R
11-22-2010, 04:14 PM
Yes, let's give an award to somebody because they got screwed over in a previous year. Good logic there. That would certainly make the voting more consistent......

How about let's give him the award because he had a better season... wow you totally missed the point I was trying to convey.

RTL
11-22-2010, 04:16 PM
Congrats to that crazy canuck!! The writers definitely got this one right.

One Nut Kruk
11-22-2010, 04:17 PM
How about let's give him the award because he had a better season... wow you totally missed the point I was trying to convey.

Why, because he had a few more hr and rbi?

Double_R
11-22-2010, 04:22 PM
Why, because he had a few more hr and rbi?

Pujols played gold glove defense and led the NL in HRs, RBI, XBH, Runs, Offensive WAR, WAR Position Players. Wins Above Replacement(above every pitcher too), Adj. Batting Wins, Adj. Batting Runs and was above Votto in about every other category

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2010-batting-leaders.shtml

sexicano31
11-22-2010, 04:23 PM
Wow, cant have one person not be butthurt about any award, can we?

Pinstripe pride
11-22-2010, 04:25 PM
Did the voters just get it right...AGAIN? Wow

someone crazy is going to win the AL MVP to balance it out.


congrtas to votto, he deserved it

Gigantes4Life
11-22-2010, 04:29 PM
Regardless of why he won, he was better than Pujols this season.

That's debatable.

metsfaninSTL
11-22-2010, 04:38 PM
Because he wasn't this year.
Griffey should have won MVP last year because he was really good earlier in his career.

MVP goes on a year-to-year basis and it's absolutely ridiculous for you to say that Votto didn't deserve the reward. You being from STL renders your opinion essentially worthless.

i never said votto didnt deserve the award and im a mets fan. being from stl has nothing to do with it

DaSox_05
11-22-2010, 04:40 PM
Well on fangraphs Votto has a WAR of 7.4 to Pujols 7.3 and Votto had a higher OPS 1.024 to 1.011 and a wOBA .439 to .420. OPS+ goes to Pujols 156 to 173.

I think Votto deserved the MVP honor but I could understand why people are upset Pujols didnt win.

goldenstater
11-22-2010, 04:45 PM
That was my vote. Killer year.

TheGiantYankee
11-22-2010, 05:02 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me?

How did Jeter not win NL MVP?

Because Jeter is in the AL.

ugafan
11-22-2010, 05:13 PM
Comprehension is key to posting...I think he was making the point that Pujols had a down year and still put up better numbers in many categories.

It doesn't matter if Pujols didn't have his best year. Votto had a better year so he won. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

ATL#22
11-22-2010, 05:19 PM
It was almost as close to a tie as you could get it but Pujols is the one that made the rule that the MVP should be on a playoff team so I'm glad Votto won.

Tkais9009
11-22-2010, 05:22 PM
congrats to votto.... just dont do it again :p

ATL#22
11-22-2010, 05:28 PM
Because Jeter is in the AL.

Shouldn't matter

Rdy2PlayBall
11-22-2010, 05:42 PM
Wow, stolen from Soriano! :mad:

sexicano31
11-22-2010, 05:44 PM
It was almost as close to a tie as you could get it but Pujols is the one that made the rule that the MVP should be on a playoff team so I'm glad Votto won.


Shouldn't matter

Both of these

-Lavigne43-
11-22-2010, 05:50 PM
Best job the writers have done in a while. I agree with all of them so far. lol at the person who gave Ryan Howard a 2nd place vote and Brian Wilson a 3rd place vote

BuddhaMONK
11-22-2010, 05:54 PM
2 different canadian mvp's in the last 4 years pretty impressive

carson005
11-22-2010, 06:01 PM
Third Canadian to win it!

Congrats to a great player, and a great Canadian!

-Lavigne43-
11-22-2010, 06:06 PM
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
pujols is the best player on earth. reason i voted him 4th was he played for a disappointing team whereas votto, a-gone and halladay didnt

:facepalm:

Rdy2PlayBall
11-22-2010, 06:32 PM
:facepalm:Facepalm is right. That's a terrible reason.

I'm beginning to believe someone could get 200RBIs, bat .360, and steal 60 bases but still not win a unanimous vote because he was on a 3rd place team. This was no where near that, and Votto definitely deserved to win... but they're putting making the play offs too much into the decision.

Jeffy25
11-22-2010, 06:33 PM
Their offense was a wash, on a rate basis, but Pujols had 50 more plate appearances. They're both excellent baserunners for first basemen, also a wash. Pujols is generally considered a better defender, and the 2010 stats back that up or, at worst, have them equal. It's DAMN close, but even if you're generous to Votto and call it even defensively, that leaves a 50 plate appearance advantage for Pujols.

fWAR has them effectively tied, while rWAR and WARP give Pujols a one-win edge.

Jeffy25
11-22-2010, 06:36 PM
Facepalm is right. That's a terrible reason.

I'm beginning to believe someone could get 200RBIs, bat .360, and steal 60 bases but still not win a unanimous vote because he was on a 3rd place team. This was no where near that, and Votto definitely deserved to win... but they're putting making the play offs too much into the decision.

it's an individual award, it has zero to do with the team, and the place the team landed.

But the voters don't know that.

Specifically says so in the rules every year, that the player need not come from a playoff contending team.

That said, Votto earned the win, but barely, and I am surprised by the 31-1 in first place votes, the Cargo got as much credit as he did, and that Ryan Howard got so much credit. And again, Ryan Zimmerman was ignored for his tremendous value.

Those that really get into the saber numbers, each player was basically equal in value, Pujols a very slight edge in some ways, and Votto in others.

Oh well, Pujols has been top 10 in mvp voting every year of his career, 10 years. and this is his 4th second place finish, that ties Stan Musial I believe for the most second place votes for MVP voting.

I can't hate on the voters, because Votto was a deserving choice, but I am willing to bet he got more first place votes because his team made the playoffs.

Jeffy25
11-22-2010, 06:38 PM
Regardless of why he won, he was better than Pujols this season.
Again, not necessarily true.

I am not complaining about Votto winning, but many think there was a larger difference between the two this year, when there wasn't.

The biggest difference between the two this year?

Pujols had a terrible ball in play average when compared to Votto.

Other than that, their differences were basically a wash. Well that, and their walk and strike out ratio.

Rdy2PlayBall
11-22-2010, 06:41 PM
Again, not necessarily true.

I am not complaining about Votto winning, but many think there was a larger difference between the two this year, when there wasn't.No... Votto was better...

You can't completely ignore playoffs. Votto had more hits that mattered than Pujols. Even if he had less RBIS. There is more to baseball than stats, just like there is more to the award than making the playoffs.

dtmagnet
11-22-2010, 06:43 PM
Toronto's own! Congrats Joey!

Jeffy25
11-22-2010, 06:52 PM
No... Votto was better...

You can't completely ignore playoffs. Votto had more hits that mattered than Pujols. Even if he had less RBIS. There is more to baseball than stats, just like there is more to the award than making the playoffs.

How did he have less valuable hits?

The opposite can easily be argued as true. Since the Cardinals won less games, that Alberts hits were more important and lead to a higher value when compared to wins.

And one could argue that there was less pressure with votto being on a playoff team, while the Cardinals chased.

Votto also had a better lineup around him.

The reverse can be said on everything you just said.


Oh, and Pujols hit better with RISP, and RISP with two outs. You want to talk about valuable hits.

Also

http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/9184


So your post, was pretty inaccurate.

FadeAwayLikeMJ
11-22-2010, 06:56 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me?

How did Jeter not win NL MVP?


Because Jeter is in the AL.

i do believe that was a joke. a good one too.




(and i am a yankee fan, dont let my avatar fool you)

1903
11-22-2010, 06:58 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me?

How did Jeter not win NL MVP?

He got screwed by the voters thats why. He will win both AL and NL MVP next season.

Gigantes4Life
11-22-2010, 06:59 PM
It doesn't matter if Pujols didn't have his best year. Votto had a better year so he won. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

Says who? When park-adjusted Pujols is at a .437 wOBA while Votto is at .426. Pujols also just over 50 more PA.

You're right this shouldn't be a discussion; Pujols was the best, like always.

FanGraphs is the only place that thinks Votto was better and it's almost identical. Of course FanGraphs has the most inaccurate form of wOBA so you can basically throw any WAR metrics from there out the window.

Rdy2PlayBall
11-22-2010, 07:08 PM
How did he have less valuable hits?
And one could argue that there was less pressure with votto being on a playoff team, while the Cardinals chased.
:laugh2:

Votto also had a better lineup around him.
K?

The reverse can be said on everything you just said.
:rolleyes:

Oh, and Pujols hit better with RISP, and RISP with two outs. You want to talk about valuable hits.
:eyebrow:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/9184
You're a real sabermetrician aren't you?...

Honestly, we can both agree to disagree, because you won't convince me otherwise. Sorry you didn't get your MVP award for Saint Louis. I think Votto deserved the MVP, and I'm glad it wasn't chosen based on popularity like the Gold Glove.

I still think Pujols is the greatest player in baseball, someone just had a more valuable season. Whatever.

t327
11-22-2010, 07:26 PM
it's an individual award, it has zero to do with the team, and the place the team landed.

But the voters don't know that.

Specifically says so in the rules every year, that the player need not come from a playoff contending team.

That said, Votto earned the win, but barely, and I am surprised by the 31-1 in first place votes, the Cargo got as much credit as he did, and that Ryan Howard got so much credit. And again, Ryan Zimmerman was ignored for his tremendous value.

Those that really get into the saber numbers, each player was basically equal in value, Pujols a very slight edge in some ways, and Votto in others.

Oh well, Pujols has been top 10 in mvp voting every year of his career, 10 years. and this is his 4th second place finish, that ties Stan Musial I believe for the most second place votes for MVP voting.

I can't hate on the voters, because Votto was a deserving choice, but I am willing to bet he got more first place votes because his team made the playoffs.

I cannot believe how Zimmerman was so low. Poor guy.

Halladay
11-22-2010, 07:37 PM
Another MVP award for a Canadian. I thought we didn't know how to play anything but hockey?

Jeffy25
11-22-2010, 07:51 PM
Honestly, we can both agree to disagree, because you won't convince me otherwise. Sorry you didn't get your MVP award for Saint Louis. I think Votto deserved the MVP, and I'm glad it wasn't chosen based on popularity like the Gold Glove.

I still think Pujols is the greatest player in baseball, someone just had a more valuable season. Whatever.

I have zero problem with Votto winning the award, but the differences between the two this year are almost basically a wash. Some stats favor Votto, others favor Pujols. It's very debatable this year. Either guy could have won and it would have been fine, of course, I am also a Cardinals fan, and will argue for him.

Co-MVP!


No?



Eh, it's all good. I just love baseball, it's not worse than Howard getting it the year he did over Pujols.

The_Franchise13
11-22-2010, 08:03 PM
I could have dealt with Votto or Pujols winning. Zimmerman 16th is the biggest snub of all.

Zimmerman had a UZR/150 of +17.8. .388OBP/.510 slug 7.2 WAR

Voters still leaning towards players on winning teams is fine, but sending Zimmerman all the way to 16th? Not his fault he's on the Nationals.

Mell413
11-22-2010, 08:06 PM
I don't have an issue with Votto winning it. His park probably helps him a lot, but I don't know if it diminishes the accomplishment. I'm starting to think it doesn't. His BABIP is too high so I don't know if it should count.

Jeffy25
11-22-2010, 08:12 PM
I could have dealt with Votto or Pujols winning. Zimmerman 16th is the biggest snub of all.

Zimmerman had a UZR/150 of +17.8. .388OBP/.510 slug 7.2 WAR

Voters still leaning towards players on winning teams is fine, but sending Zimmerman all the way to 16th? Not his fault he's on the Nationals.

5.3 WAR, Pujols lead the NL in WAR with a 7.2, the sixth year in a row that he led the NL in WAR, ever since Bonds 04 season.

But I fully agree that Zimmerman got snubbed, yet again. It's a crying shame.

While Howard gets a second place vote? Jimenez gets a 4th?

Pujols gets a sixth? Seriously?

As Giants4Life said earlier, you can't really use fangraphs for WAR simply because their wOBA isn't even accurate. Baseball-reference is much more reliable and consistent, and is far better for pitchers.

metsfan4ever
11-22-2010, 08:38 PM
pujols didnt win cause they didnt want a dominican to 3 peat the award.

dodgernation
11-22-2010, 09:12 PM
congrats to votto he deserved it....but Pujols 2nd over cargo? :confused: stupid...

BluejaysFan08
11-22-2010, 09:24 PM
Representing Canada well, Atta boy votto.

1903
11-22-2010, 09:34 PM
I have to support Votto on this since he is representing Canada. Pujols had a legit claim also but it's not like he was royally screwed.

Jeffy25
11-22-2010, 09:55 PM
congrats to votto he deserved it....but Pujols 2nd over cargo? :confused: stupid...

sarcasm?


Because Pujols easily had a better year then Cargo. And it isn't even close.

We can debate who was more valuable this year, Pujols or Votto, since their years were so close in value. When one has the advantage in one stat, the other has it in another. The tie breaker likely came down to which guy played in October, which is likely what happened.

Cargo? Over Pujols? That is laughable. Carlos was a deserving third, maybe fourth. But wasn't better than Votto or Pujols in 2010.


I would rather have Ryan Zimmerman's 2010 over Carlos Gonzalez's

Webslinger
11-23-2010, 08:57 AM
Regardless of why he won, he was better than Pujols this season.

Albert had more hits, doubles, hrs, runs, walks and rbis, but votto was still 14 percentage points higher in OPS and beat Albert in BA and OBP by 10-14 points in each category. If Votto was better statistically I can't imagine how this was determined. The MVP was decided on the fact that the Reds went to the post season. Quite frankly I would have given it to Pujols.

scotttube
11-23-2010, 12:02 PM
sarcasm?


Because Pujols easily had a better year then Cargo. And it isn't even close.

We can debate who was more valuable this year, Pujols or Votto, since their years were so close in value. When one has the advantage in one stat, the other has it in another. The tie breaker likely came down to which guy played in October, which is likely what happened.Cargo? Over Pujols? That is laughable. Carlos was a deserving third, maybe fourth. But wasn't better than Votto or Pujols in 2010.


I would rather have Ryan Zimmerman's 2010 over Carlos Gonzalez's

Why can't the tie breaker be OBP, SLG% and therefore OPS? Votto led the NL in all 3.

Anyways Richview Collegiate reperesent. I went to the same highschool as this guy, not that his high school games were what got him drafted.

Jeffy25
11-23-2010, 02:43 PM
Why can't the tie breaker be OBP, SLG% and therefore OPS? Votto led the NL in all 3.

Anyways Richview Collegiate reperesent. I went to the same highschool as this guy, not that his high school games were what got him drafted.

Then I guess Albert shouldn't have had that additional 50 plate appearances when he hurt his value?


Albert did what Votto did, and then continued on with another 50 plate appearances nearly at the same rate that Votto did all year. He contributed more, which is the only argument for Pujols.

He played more and overall contributed more value. As far as rate stats, Votto edges out Pujols by a hair.

In those basically additional 11 games, the Reds had to play someone worse at first base, while the Cardinals had Albert.

That holds value similar to pitcher innings, a big reason why Lincecum won the Cy Young in 2009 over Carpenter.

Gigantes4Life
11-23-2010, 02:55 PM
Why can't the tie breaker be OBP, SLG% and therefore OPS? Votto led the NL in all 3.

Anyways Richview Collegiate reperesent. I went to the same highschool as this guy, not that his high school games were what got him drafted.

Why can't the tiebreaker be the fact that Pujols was superior than Votto this year?

The difference in plate appearances and park factors makes Albert more valuable than Votto.

scotttube
11-23-2010, 05:13 PM
Then I guess Albert shouldn't have had that additional 50 plate appearances when he hurt his value?


Albert did what Votto did, and then continued on with another 50 plate appearances nearly at the same rate that Votto did all year. He contributed more, which is the only argument for Pujols.

He played more and overall contributed more value. As far as rate stats, Votto edges out Pujols by a hair.

In those basically additional 11 games, the Reds had to play someone worse at first base, while the Cardinals had Albert.

That holds value similar to pitcher innings, a big reason why Lincecum won the Cy Young in 2009 over Carpenter.

Huh now we're counting 50 additional PA's as criteria? Votto and Pujols can't control how many PA's they get. Starting pitchers do control how many innings they pitch. If they are more efficient with their pitches or have more stamina they can go deeper into games. PA's and innings are apples and oranges. You can't fault a player for having 50 less PA's.

Gigantes4Life
11-23-2010, 07:09 PM
Huh now we're counting 50 additional PA's as criteria? Votto and Pujols can't control how many PA's they get. Starting pitchers do control how many innings they pitch. If they are more efficient with their pitches or have more stamina they can go deeper into games. PA's and innings are apples and oranges. You can't fault a player for having 50 less PA's.

We're not faulting him. It simply provides more value to the team if he's on the field more. I don't care if it's out of his control. By Pujols providing 50 more PA he also provided significant more value, and that's what the award is for. Albert Pujols helped his team win more than Votto did.

scotttube
11-24-2010, 12:09 AM
We're not faulting him. It simply provides more value to the team if he's on the field more. I don't care if it's out of his control. By Pujols providing 50 more PA he also provided significant more value, and that's what the award is for. Albert Pujols helped his team win more than Votto did.

If you are talking about value then Votto had a higher WAR than Pujols too.

Jeffy25
11-24-2010, 04:19 AM
If you are talking about value then Votto had a higher WAR than Pujols too.

No he didn't.

Pujols had a higher WAR of 7.2
Votto had a 6.9

You can't really use fangraphs, their wOBA is broken, and they are even worse for pitchers.

Pujols won in overall value over the season. Votto had better rate stats, but less overall counting stats because of the less plate appearances. This also led to less overall value, because Pujols played more.

Look at baseball reference for WAR, they are much more accurate.

I would suspect that fangraphs will change their WAR system within the next 6 months.

R. Johnson#3
11-24-2010, 01:04 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me?

How did Jeter not win NL MVP?

My thoughts exactly.

Etobicoke wuddup!