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View Full Version : The Michael Beasley Heist: Worse than that of Gasol?



shep33
11-19-2010, 02:34 PM
He actually looks like he can develop into a franchise-type player. How big of a steal was this? 2 second rounders... that's it. Obviously the Heat won too by signing 3 major free-agents. But this was a heist possibly better than that of Gasol's.

Recall now, Memphis got Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, the draft rights to Marc Gasol and first round picks in 2008 and 2010.

Marc Gasol is pretty good. Kwame... well he's a big in a league with no bigs... 2 first rounders, although late picks is still better than 2 second rounders.

Opinions... look at this scenario not biased toward championships, but value when you look at what's going and what's coming in.

Hawkeye15
11-19-2010, 02:37 PM
Obviously, in principal, the Beasley deal is the biggest steal I know of. The Wolves gave up literally nothing (2 second round picks) for him.
However, Miami obviously only made the deal because of their total steal of the free agency market this summer, so I highly doubt Miami fans feel to bad here.

Sadds The Gr8
11-19-2010, 02:38 PM
Beasley deal is more of a steal. At least Marc Gasol is a serviceable big man.

hoopsguy820
11-19-2010, 02:39 PM
I can't vote because this is a great question. The Lakers gave up more but they got a couple rings out of it with a 1st team all pro center. They did give up his brother who is pretty good now and also a couple 1st's. But Beasley is looking great right now for two 2nd rounders, that is crazy. But this is a difficult question

llemon
11-19-2010, 02:42 PM
I'll wait for TWolves to make the playoffs before trying to judge.

barreleffact
11-19-2010, 02:43 PM
i voted gasol was the bigger steal only because it had them winning championships and going to the finals from day one where as the wolves are no better. with that being said, i would like to change my vote because trade value wise it was easily a bigger steal getting beasley for nothing. I ponder something off topic. What if the lakers had been able to trade bynum instead? Bynum is oft injured and the gasol duo couldve been massive. Still LA wouldve been cheated out of a ring in 08, but potentially I think they wouldve been far better off

zambo4president
11-19-2010, 02:45 PM
I never thought the Pau deal was a huge rape, I actually expected Javaris to be a solid player, and the Lakers gave up Marc Gasol who's been very good in his own right for Memphis so this trades not that bad anymore. And they got Kwame Brown which is ******.

Beez was a rape for whoever wanted to pony up a pick to get him, I don't get why not as many teams wanted to deal a pick or two for him, The 2nd pick from a couple years ago is worth more than most of the players in the draft that year as it was.

Hawkeye15
11-19-2010, 02:46 PM
Stealing Beasley for two second-round picks was a freaking heist. Maybe he couldn't handle South Beach. Maybe he couldn't adjust to playing off the ball with Dwyane Wade. Maybe his personal demons were worse than the girl's from "Drag Me to Hell." But watching him this month has been a revelation -- even if he's a defensive liability, there aren't 12 NBA players right now who can drop 30 points easier than him.

Couldn't someone have trumped two second-round picks? Why would Toronto GM Bryan Colangelo turn down Beasley in the Bosh/Heat sign-and-trade when Miami would have thrown him in for free? Where was Oklahoma City's Sam Presti, who could have easily trumped Minnesota's offer and added Beasley (one of Kevin Durant's best friends) as a much-needed bench scorer? And where the hell were the Clippers???? I know he played terribly last season, and I know about the off-court concerns, but if you watched him in college … I mean … how could the No. 2 pick of the 2008 draft be worthless two years later? That was such a steal that I'm suspending all "Kaaaaaaaaahn!" jokes indefinitely. Great, great trade. And shame on the rest of the league for falling asleep

funny enough. Bill Simmons take

JayW_1023
11-19-2010, 02:47 PM
Gasol was a bigger steal. I have yet to see Beasley produce like this for a whole season.

shep33
11-19-2010, 02:49 PM
Obviously, in principal, the Beasley deal is the biggest steal I know of. The Wolves gave up literally nothing (2 second round picks) for him.
However, Miami obviously only made the deal because of their total steal of the free agency market this summer, so I highly doubt Miami fans feel to bad here.

I agree. Like I said in the OP, the Heat probably don't care too much, even though having Beasley be the 6th man would be pretty crazy, but they got 3 top free-agents.

I also agree that the Wolves gave up nothing... 2 second rounders. Insane... Minni is surprising me this year, and coud actually have one of the better combo's at the 3-4 spots for a long long time with Beas and Love.

shep33
11-19-2010, 02:51 PM
funny enough. Bill Simmons take

That's because I got the idea from Simmons' article haha... he doesn't mention the Gasol trade but if you compare the two it gets really interesting. I probably shoulda put us Simmons' article on ESPN... anyways anybody wants to read his Western Conference retro-preview it's here: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnfl2010/week11picks/part1

ManRam
11-19-2010, 02:51 PM
Gasol put the Lakers over the top. He made them championship winners.

Beasley A) isn't as good as Gasol B) isn't making his team much better and C) was moved in order to get Bosh. Sure, Bosh has underwhelmed, and Beasley has superseded expectations...but Beasley is not better than Bosh, and wouldn't fit into the Heat system any better.

Let's not get carried away after a dozen games or so.

I like Simmons, but Miami knew they were getting hosed, but had to get hosed in order to get Bosh (or LeBron). It essentially was a Beasley for Bosh/LeBron trade.

Avenged
11-19-2010, 02:54 PM
Gasol is way better than Beasley so I don't think so..

The Wolves are looking real good with him and Love in their frontcourt though.. Lakers play them tonight, so i'll get to see them [hopefully not, especially Love] dominate the boards.

daleja424
11-19-2010, 02:56 PM
false... The HEAT traded Beasley for two second rounders + the money to sign Haslem and Mike Miller...

Miller and Haslem are/will be more productive than Beasley would have beenon this team

+ that second round pick is almost the same as a late first...

shep33
11-19-2010, 02:56 PM
Gasol put the Lakers over the top. He made them championship winners.

Beasley A) isn't as good as Gasol B) isn't making his team much better and C) was moved in order to get Bosh. Sure, Bosh has underwhelmed, and Beasley has superseded expectations...but Beasley is not better than Bosh, and wouldn't fit into the Heat system any better.

Let's not get carried away after a dozen games or so.

I like Simmons, but Miami knew they were getting hosed, but had to get hosed in order to get Bosh (or LeBron). It essentially was a Beasley for Bosh/LeBron trade.

Could they have kept Beasley and not signed Miller? I'm guessing not, cause they used the MLE on Miller right?

daleja424
11-19-2010, 02:57 PM
nah....you all are a little off...

The beasley trade was essentially... Beasley for two high second rounders + Udonis haslem + Mike Miller...

both Miller AND Haslem are more important in what they do than anything beasley could do for Miami...

beasted86
11-19-2010, 02:58 PM
A little too early for this thread.

daleja424
11-19-2010, 02:58 PM
no Miami had no MLE this year... b/c they were below the cap... trading beasley freed up enough money to get Haslem and Miller back in Miami...

beasted86
11-19-2010, 02:59 PM
Could they have kept Beasley and not signed Miller? I'm guessing not, cause they used the MLE on Miller right?

No, we could have kept Beasley and signed a $3.5M player though.

Miller: $5M
Haslem: $3.5M
+Two future 2nd rounders

or

Beasley: $5M
???????: $3.5M

shep33
11-19-2010, 02:59 PM
A little too early for this thread.

But it's something to keep an eye on I think as this season and Beasley progresses.

Sadds The Gr8
11-19-2010, 03:00 PM
Gasol put the Lakers over the top. He made them championship winners.

Beasley A) isn't as good as Gasol B) isn't making his team much better and C) was moved in order to get Bosh. Sure, Bosh has underwhelmed, and Beasley has superseded expectations...but Beasley is not better than Bosh, and wouldn't fit into the Heat system any better.

Let's not get carried away after a dozen games or so.

I like Simmons, but Miami knew they were getting hosed, but had to get hosed in order to get Bosh (or LeBron). It essentially was a Beasley for Bosh/LeBron trade.


Gasol is way better than Beasley so I don't think so..

The Wolves are looking real good with him and Love in their frontcourt though.. Lakers play them tonight, so i'll get to see them [hopefully not, especially Love] dominate the boards.

obviously Gasol is way better than Beasley, but who's comparing them as players? A steal in a trade is when the skill difference between the player(s) involved is so overwhelmingly in one team's favour...in this case, people think Beasley for 2 2nd rounders is more of a rip off than Pau for Marc...The Gasol deal isn't as bad as people think...Marc is a top 10 C in the league.

shep33
11-19-2010, 03:00 PM
no Miami had no MLE this year... b/c they were below the cap... trading beasley freed up enough money to get Haslem and Miller back in Miami...

I see thanks.

daleja424
11-19-2010, 03:01 PM
No, we could have kept Beasley and signed a $3.5M player though.

Miller: $5M
Haslem: $3.5M
+Two future 2nd rounders

or

Beasley: $5M
???????: $3.5M

not exactly... you have to consider why certain things were done. Lebron wanted Miller in miami... Wade wanted haslem in Miami... that is why they all took a little less... to combine it with Beasley's money to have enough for both...

mikantsass
11-19-2010, 03:02 PM
Until the TWolves make 3 NBA finals in a row, it is easily Gasol

John Walls Era
11-19-2010, 03:03 PM
No Al Jefferson imo was the bigger steal this summer. This was alright, but lets be realistic here: We know Beasley can score. The fact that hes actually getting the ball more and getting more shots is increasing his PPG.

b_russ
11-19-2010, 03:03 PM
Beasley landed in the right place at the right time (not to say Gasol didn't as well.) Not as many wanted to take the risk. He had the repuation of being a headache and his potential was only as good as Beasley was willing to make it. They traded him to a team lacking a scorer and looking for an identity. Beasley was looking for a clean slate and Minnesota was the exact place to find it. There are some teams that I thought could have used him given their situation: Clippers, Cavs, Warriors, but they chose not to. I think a willing coaching staff is key to his success. For example I thought Utah could use a nice piece with Boozer gone and lack of a consistent scorer, but then I thought of Sloan chewing him to pieces. All in all, good fit for both parties.

daleja424
11-19-2010, 03:03 PM
this is not even remotely the same...

The Grizz weakened themselves considerably, trading their best player, and not getting much in return...while the Lakers became contenders.

Miami traded a young guy who had no place on the team for the cap space to sign better role players. In this trade Miami and the Wolves both got better as teams... which is a rarity in NBA trades.

Its not even close to the same scenario...

beasted86
11-19-2010, 03:04 PM
not exactly... you have to consider why certain things were done. Lebron wanted Miller in miami... Wade wanted haslem in Miami... that is why they all took a little less... to combine it with Beasley's money to have enough for both...

I know that, just trying to simplify things. But Wade wanted Haslem... LeBron & Haslem & Wade wanted Miller.

nyanks79
11-19-2010, 03:05 PM
I have to see a whole season of Beasley first or at least more then 15 games. Hes close to the top of the league in long 2s with Kobe, Melo, Dirk. Could he be just a great midrange player like these guys, maybe. But have to see a bigger sample size where hes still producing and efficiently.

Avenged
11-19-2010, 03:05 PM
obviously Gasol is way better than Beasley, but who's comparing them as players? A steal in a trade is when the skill difference between the player(s) involved is so overwhelmingly in one team's favour...in this case, people think Beasley for 2 2nd rounders is more of a rip off than Pau for Marc...The Gasol deal isn't as bad as people think...Marc is a top 10 C in the league.

Gasol being a better player and getting practically nothing [at the time] is what makes it a greater steal. Okay, now Marc has developed in a nice player, but at the time, the Lakers got practically nothing for Gasol.. Same thing is happening [at least for the time being] with Beasley since he's been playing really well.. But the Lakers 2 championships because of Gasol and 3 Finals in a row is why I think it's a greater steal.

I mean, teams haven't even played 15 games yet to even consider the Beasley trade worse than Gasol.

shep33
11-19-2010, 03:05 PM
obviously Gasol is way better than Beasley, but who's comparing them as players? A steal in a trade is when the skill difference between the player(s) involved is so overwhelmingly in one team's favour...in this case, people think Beasley for 2 2nd rounders is more of a rip off than Pau for Marc...The Gasol deal isn't as bad as people think...Marc is a top 10 C in the league.

Yeah this is what i'm trying to get across. It's fairly obvious that Gasol is better than Beas, but when we look at "value" coming in and out, the Gasol trade favored the Lakers more in what they gave up to get him, however, does that difference exceed that of the Beasley trade?

So yeah, thanks for clarifying, good post. I have to say that I think Marc Gasol is a top 5 Center in the league, and his stat's would be even better if he wasn't on the Grizzlies who already have 3 players that will shoot a lot.. Mayo, Randolph, Gay.

jkcronyn
11-19-2010, 03:07 PM
easy, the lakers gave up two first round picks and marc. the biggest part of this thats weird though is that you try to judge it by like OH who got screwed?!? the lakers or the heat!!! and the trades did nothing but improve them so idk its hard but when looking at it beasely seems obvious. 2 first round picks is kind of a big deal, marc gasol is decent, and then yeah kwame and crittenton were basically the two second round picks for beasely

nyanks79
11-19-2010, 03:07 PM
this is not even remotely the same...

The Grizz weakened themselves considerably, trading their best player, and not getting much in return...while the Lakers became contenders.

Miami traded a young guy who had no place on the team for the cap space to sign better role players. In this trade Miami and the Wolves both got better as teams... which is a rarity in NBA trades.

Its not even close to the same scenario...

I dont think the OPs point was to bash the Heat at all and that all you have posted about in the thread. People understand why they Heat did it and I dont think anybody is saying they were wrong for doing it. But to try to make it like the Wolves didnt get a bargain is just foolish.

daleja424
11-19-2010, 03:08 PM
+ you all are considering things that came to fruition years after the trade...like the emergence of baby gasol...

for all you know the HEAT will draft some stud with the 33rd pick or something...

if you want to look at how the trades played out... you can't do that yet

if you want to look at how they looked on paper at the time of the trade... it isnt even close... the gasol deal to LA was A TON more lopsided.

daleja424
11-19-2010, 03:11 PM
I dont think the OPs point was to bash the Heat at all and that all you have posted about in the thread. People understand why they Heat did it and I dont think anybody is saying they were wrong for doing it. But to try to make it like the Wolves didnt get a bargain is just foolish.

that was not my point AT ALL. I state pretty clearly that both teams won this deal. you have to look at it from both sides.

Minny is thinking... beasley for 2 2nds... YESSSS!!!!

Miami is thinking... beasley for 2 2nds, haslem, and miller.... YESSSSS!!!

It was a win win then, now, and moving forward...

not at all the same as the Gasol deal that turned one team into a back-to-back champ and removed the other team's best player....

zB_#85
11-19-2010, 03:12 PM
false... The HEAT traded Beasley for two second rounders + the money to sign Haslem and Mike Miller...

Miller and Haslem are/will be more productive than Beasley would have beenon this team

+ that second round pick is almost the same as a late first...

I don't totally agree. At the time I would have agreed with this statement, but now I can't say that they wouldn't do over if they could. Miller hasn't played a single game for them yet, and James Jones is actually shooting pretty well. Isn't that what Miller is supposed to do for them? Just be a shooter and a spacer? Well they are getting solid contribution in that area from a guy a hell of a lot cheaper than Miller was. I always thought Miller was totally overrated and overpaid (even previously before Miami). They had bird years on Haslem and Wade so those 2 guys could have waited to sign and they would have still got their money. That gives them a little room to work within the cap and fill in with some guys, then they sign Wade and Haslem which puts them over the cap but it's legal. Having Beasley around would have been huge off the bench. He can play the 3 and 4 so you're getting all of Lebron and Bosh's rest from one guy. And he could pack some major punch as the leader of the 2nd unit. He basically would be able to do what he's doing in Minnesota since he would be the unquestioned #1 option for the 2nd unit, just less minutes. Realistically they could have had the exact same team, except swap out Miller for Beas. You're telling me that you would do that if you were Pat Riley?

justinnum1
11-19-2010, 03:14 PM
I love beasley...this trade worked out for everyone.

Beasley got what he wanted
Miami got what they wanted
Minny got a great deal

Great trade. Those high 2nd rounders will also be nice trade bait.

beasted86
11-19-2010, 03:15 PM
Gasol being a better player and getting practically nothing [at the time] is what makes it a greater steal. Okay, now Marc has developed in a nice player, but at the time, the Lakers got practically nothing for Gasol.. Same thing is happening [at least for the time being] with Beasley since he's been playing really well.. But the Lakers 2 championships because of Gasol and 3 Finals in a row is why I think it's a greater steal.

I mean, teams haven't even played 15 games yet to even consider the Beasley trade worse than Gasol.

Pretty much how I see it. Right now there's really nothing that seperates Beasley from anyone else like, say, Zach Randolph. I don't exactly see any threads asking if Zach for Quentin was an all-time steal.... because although Zach put up career numbers and made an all-star roster, the Grizz went nowhere.

Maybe if he leads the Wolves into the playoffs and becomes a top 20 player this might be worth discussing. This is a valid topic of discussion, just way too early.

zB_#85
11-19-2010, 03:17 PM
+ you all are considering things that came to fruition years after the trade...like the emergence of baby gasol...

for all you know the HEAT will draft some stud with the 33rd pick or something...

if you want to look at how the trades played out... you can't do that yet

if you want to look at how they looked on paper at the time of the trade... it isnt even close... the gasol deal to LA was A TON more lopsided.

you're right, you can never really tell how trades truly work out until years down the road. BUT.....people were ignorant when the Gasol trade was pulled off. Anyone who follows basketball beyond the NBA knew that Marc had a good amount of potential. Less skilled than Pau, but more physical- a true C. Everyone just started saying that LA raped Memphis without actually looking into the trade and realizing that Jerry West was looking down the road. Pau probably wasn't going to resign, he got some picks, and he knew he was getting a promising guy in Marc.

curtie74
11-19-2010, 03:19 PM
How can you compare both deals the lake show won 2 rings with gasol the wolves won nothing n still wont go 2 da playoffs so nexxxxxxxxxxttttttttttt.

Da Knicks
11-19-2010, 03:23 PM
Gasol is the bigger Heist, he is the best big in the league.

Raoul Duke
11-19-2010, 03:28 PM
The Gasol trade was worse due to context, and it's not even comparable. The Gasol trade happened under everyone's collective nose. Miami offered Beasley around and noone was all that interested due to baggage.

daleja424
11-19-2010, 03:28 PM
I don't totally agree. At the time I would have agreed with this statement, but now I can't say that they wouldn't do over if they could. Miller hasn't played a single game for them yet, and James Jones is actually shooting pretty well. Isn't that what Miller is supposed to do for them? Just be a shooter and a spacer? Well they are getting solid contribution in that area from a guy a hell of a lot cheaper than Miller was. I always thought Miller was totally overrated and overpaid (even previously before Miami). They had bird years on Haslem and Wade so those 2 guys could have waited to sign and they would have still got their money. That gives them a little room to work within the cap and fill in with some guys, then they sign Wade and Haslem which puts them over the cap but it's legal. Having Beasley around would have been huge off the bench. He can play the 3 and 4 so you're getting all of Lebron and Bosh's rest from one guy. And he could pack some major punch as the leader of the 2nd unit. He basically would be able to do what he's doing in Minnesota since he would be the unquestioned #1 option for the 2nd unit, just less minutes. Realistically they could have had the exact same team, except swap out Miller for Beas. You're telling me that you would do that if you were Pat Riley?

There is several points wrong with this:
1. Miller is not aspot up shooter. He is a guy that can take some ball handling duty and create for himself off the dribble. He will make the HEAT a lot better...and may even move into the starting lineup once healthy. Also, he is making about 5 million dollars this year...which is several million less than he could have gotten elsewhere.

2. Beasley is a volume scorer. The HEAT did not need more volume scorers. They needed a tough guy (Haslem) and some highly efficient long range shooting (Miller).

3. That is incorrect. Haslem's cap hold was in the 7-8 million dollar range, so Miami had to relinquish their rights to him before they could sign Wade, Bosh, and James. Haslem was a FA with no rights to Miami when he resigned. Miami COULD NOT exceed the cap to sign him.

4. The rest of your assumptions are based on the incorrect assumptions you made in bold... so I wont critique those...

Ripper Gein
11-19-2010, 03:39 PM
obviously gasol is way better than beasley, but who's comparing them as players? A steal in a trade is when the skill difference between the player(s) involved is so overwhelmingly in one team's favour...in this case, people think beasley for 2 2nd rounders is more of a rip off than pau for marc...the gasol deal isn't as bad as people think...marc is a top 10 c in the league.

^ this!

Ripper Gein
11-19-2010, 03:42 PM
Beasley landed in the right place at the right time (not to say Gasol didn't as well.) Not as many wanted to take the risk. He had the repuation of being a headache and his potential was only as good as Beasley was willing to make it. They traded him to a team lacking a scorer and looking for an identity. Beasley was looking for a clean slate and Minnesota was the exact place to find it. There are some teams that I thought could have used him given their situation: Clippers, Cavs, Warriors, but they chose not to. I think a willing coaching staff is key to his success. For example I thought Utah could use a nice piece with Boozer gone and lack of a consistent scorer, but then I thought of Sloan chewing him to pieces. All in all, good fit for both parties.

Your sig creeps me the fukk out!!

AI4MVP
11-19-2010, 03:44 PM
i told ****ing everyone hes going to be a star in minnesota. and everyones like "**** here goes AI4MVP again being an idiot"

miller74
11-19-2010, 03:45 PM
Worse than that, the raps took MLE to resign Amir Johnson, instead of Beasley in the Bosh trade :facepalm:

Ripper Gein
11-19-2010, 03:51 PM
you're right, you can never really tell how trades truly work out until years down the road. BUT.....people were ignorant when the Gasol trade was pulled off. Anyone who follows basketball beyond the NBA knew that Marc had a good amount of potential. Less skilled than Pau, but more physical- a true C. Everyone just started saying that LA raped Memphis without actually looking into the trade and realizing that Jerry West was looking down the road. Pau probably wasn't going to resign, he got some picks, and he knew he was getting a promising guy in Marc.

^ and this!

iCOOKiE MONSTER
11-19-2010, 03:51 PM
Heat are going to hate what Beasley is about to do
to the league

Raph12
11-19-2010, 04:04 PM
Yeah Minni got Beas for nothing while LA gave Marc and Kwame for Pau, but if you look at what LA accomplished after getting Pau (2008 Finals, 2009 Champs and 2010 Champs), LA got the bigger steal.

NBAfan4life
11-19-2010, 05:08 PM
I hope Beasly plays like a beast tonight. My son and I are going to the game. While I love the Lakers I would like to see an outstanding performance by Love and Beas.

As for the thread, this trade could be a bigger steal, but it is to early to tell.

I remember where I was when I found out about Gasol going to the Lakers. I called a friend and told him the Lakers basically got Gasol for Kwame.

gcoll
11-19-2010, 05:16 PM
When Amare was leaving the Suns, Beasley's name kept getting tossed about.

I really wanted him. I dig the way he plays. Just gotta lay off the weed.

SteveNash
11-19-2010, 05:19 PM
What's Minnesota's record again?

justinnum1
11-19-2010, 05:20 PM
Heat are going to hate what Beasley is about to do
to the league

Actually we are going to love it.

Klivlend
11-19-2010, 05:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYFNhjVWQKk

John Walls Era
11-19-2010, 06:17 PM
i told ****ing everyone hes going to be a star in minnesota. and everyones like "**** here goes AI4MVP again being an idiot"

We'll hold you to that for now. Only star there is Love.

--


I think the word "Heist" is being used incorrectly. Heat didn't get ripped off, especially when they needed him gone in order to get LEBRON and BOSH. Its just a good trade for both teams. What is with people trying to take jabs at the Heat?

FarOutIos
11-19-2010, 06:18 PM
He actually has to produce long term to be considered a steal. Any player can go to a bad team, and become a better player. That's just a natural progression with increased playing time and scoring opportunities.

Look at Bosh as the perfect example. On a bad team, he was averaging almost 10 points more per game. He goes to miami and plays along 2 other stars, and his production slips.

Same player. Different situation.

In Beasley's case, it is also multiplied by the normal progression players make as they gain experience in the NBA.

kblo247
11-19-2010, 06:26 PM
nah....you all are a little off...

The beasley trade was essentially... Beasley for two high second rounders + Udonis haslem + Mike Miller...

both Miller AND Haslem are more important in what they do than anything beasley could do for Miami...

One could argue that the LA trade was basically Marc and the cap space to get Z-bo though since that was the only reason Memphis wanted Kwame.

Factoring in just picks and the players involved (not the ramifications for later on) LA's deal was a huge steal, but Minny made off like a bandit as well. LA sent out Kwame, Critter, Marc's rights, 2 first round picks, and cash to get Pau. They paid more than Minny did in all honesty. It was worth it but they paid more

daleja424
11-19-2010, 06:57 PM
One could argue that the LA trade was basically Marc and the cap space to get Z-bo though since that was the only reason Memphis wanted Kwame.

Factoring in just picks and the players involved (not the ramifications for later on) LA's deal was a huge steal, but Minny made off like a bandit as well. LA sent out Kwame, Critter, Marc's rights, 2 first round picks, and cash to get Pau. They paid more than Minny did in all honesty. It was worth it but they paid more

except that z-bo was added the following offseason...no?

not really the same do you think?

imagesrdecievin
11-19-2010, 07:01 PM
I think the reason that the Pasu trade was considered such a steal is because it happened so abruptly. I remember reading GM's(off the record) remarking that they had no idea Pau was on the market and absolutely would have made a (better?) offer.

Beasley deal is a bigger steal for the opposite reason. Everyone knew he was available and still didn't pull the trigger. Two 2nd's is a Super Low Risk Super High Reward.

Ethix11
11-19-2010, 07:04 PM
Miami was not outsmarted or anything. We knew what we had but we had to do it or else we wouldn't have been able to fit the big 3 contracts. I always preferred to keep Beasley and sign a cheaper player but Bosh isnt too shabby of a consolation prize either. Regardless, i knew this day would come and it sucks just as bad as i knew it would.

ink
11-19-2010, 07:30 PM
gasol was a bigger steal. I have yet to see beasley produce like this for a whole season.

+1

justinnum1
11-19-2010, 07:50 PM
Did toronto fans want beasley?

topdog
11-19-2010, 07:56 PM
I said Gasol because he got them a couple championships and his brother was a 2nd round pick. His brother was a pretty good pick-up though which makes it a more difficult situation.

Two 2nd round picks for a former #2 pick now producing as a go-to scorer/leader is pretty ridiculous though.

Side note: those 2nd round picks are yet to be cashed in so we still don't know who actually was given up yet and we don't know if Beasley will keep this up.

kblo247
11-19-2010, 07:57 PM
except that z-bo was added the following offseason...no?

not really the same do you think?

Yeah because the Knicks had dealt for Z-bo.

It isn't the same but the goal for the Pau deal was to have cap space (Kwame), pay the luxury tax bill (LA gave them cash to do that), and have a piece for the future (Marc was Spanish League MVP at the time and many predicted Crittenton to be a good prospect). The two first rounders that LA sent was gravy (Arthur and I forget who else).

I'd be lying if I said that Pau wasn't a steal. He was 100% and he fit in perfectly inside the triangle and with Odom and Kobe.

I'm just saying that while Beasley hasn't had a full year in Minny, he was taken off Miami's hands at a far lesser price since Miami knew they had to offload him ASAP to get what they wanted done. The price difference between what Minny paid is less since they are 2nd round picks and sent no cash was my point, but at the end of the day I still doubt it has the results of the Pau deal for the Wolves.

Storch
11-19-2010, 08:08 PM
Technically what happened was:

Twolves get beasley
Miami gets Lebron, Bosh, Haslem, Miller, house

Easily, twolves got the bigger steal.

UnWantedTheory
11-19-2010, 08:16 PM
Its only been 12 games & on one of the worst teams in the NBA. Beasley is fools gold. Gasol was by far the bigger steal due to the championships & talent level.

numba1CHANGsta
11-19-2010, 08:40 PM
The Heat gave him up for nothing so that they could clear more cap space to sign the big 3, but the Gasol trade was bigger, 3 straight NBA Finals appearances and 2 Back2Back titles

x_notorious
11-19-2010, 08:42 PM
Beasley is off to a great start but come on now .. it's been only 12 games into his T-Wolves career.

On the other end you have arguably the best big in the NBA who has co-led the Lakers to 3 straight NBA Finals, winning the last 2 and is playing MVP type basketball this season. Grizz didn't come away empty handed but the Heat didn't either.

This comparison shouldn't be close.

Avenged
11-19-2010, 08:51 PM
Technically what happened was:

Twolves get beasley
Miami gets Lebron, Bosh, Haslem, Miller, house

Easily, twolves got the bigger steal.

How so? The Lakers have been to 3 straight Finals appearance and have won 2 championships since Gasol came to town.. I think that's greater than landing big names.

Kobes a Killer
11-19-2010, 09:04 PM
Gasol is an MVP caliber player right now...Beasley is not. In the end the lakers got 2 possibly 3 championships out of the Gasol trade without giving anything up, the twolves got beasley...

el_primo_nano
11-19-2010, 09:06 PM
Pau's is a bigger steal because the Lakers have two rings to show for it

el_primo_nano
11-19-2010, 09:09 PM
to add to that, Beasley was never given the opportunity to succeed in Miami. No plays were ever run for him. If he would be there now, he would certainly be better and a CHEAPER option to you know who

Rafer17
11-19-2010, 10:06 PM
I remember reading several articles over the summer saying MB was close to unmovable. Gasol was a top 20 player when he got traded. I dont think MB will be consistent all season...but we'll see

topdog
11-19-2010, 10:29 PM
I love how some HEAT fans are taking it all personal. No one's saying that the HEAT got outsmarted. The question is who got the better deal on the recieving team for what they gave up.

Bosh, Lebron, Wade, ect. are irrelevant as is Al Jefferson.

Sadds The Gr8
11-19-2010, 11:06 PM
Did toronto fans want beasley?

not at first...alot of them are regretting it now though after looking at my beasley thread in the raps forum.

jimm120
11-19-2010, 11:09 PM
I never thought the Pau deal was a huge rape, I actually expected Javaris to be a solid player, and the Lakers gave up Marc Gasol who's been very good in his own right for Memphis so this trades not that bad anymore. And they got Kwame Brown which is ******.

Beez was a rape for whoever wanted to pony up a pick to get him, I don't get why not as many teams wanted to deal a pick or two for him, The 2nd pick from a couple years ago is worth more than most of the players in the draft that year as it was.

Exactly. The bigger "steal" was Beasley but in the end, that was done for certain reasons. the Pau deal was just straight out a bad trade for someone of that caliber.


NOW, you are correct about the Beasley situation. EVERYONE was linked to Beasley. The only reason other teams did not do it was because one of the following:

1 - It would hurt their cap to sign one of the 4 top FA's
2 - It would give Miami a bigger chance at snatching away one of those top 4 FA's.


So, in the end, the team that ended up doing it was a team that had no factor into the signing of those players. It was already KNOWN that Beasley would get traded for nothing. But most teams didn't bite because of what I mentioned above.

GoatMilk
11-19-2010, 11:16 PM
this memphis stuff is so overblown
not a heist at all

memphis got a great package
marc gasol
darrell arthur via laker pick
greivis vasquez via laker pick
crittenton--didnt work, but at the time he had some potential
kwame's expiring which lead them to get ZBo

thats a ton for 1 player

koreancabbage
11-20-2010, 12:38 AM
and to think Toronto could have had him for Bosh...and Beasely would/could be putting up monster numbers in Toronto while Bosh withers away in Miami and by mid-season, the campaign would be the big 2. BC would have been a genius for doing so.

but then again. Beasley is playing for a contract if i'm not mistaken. We'll see what kind of player he is in a new contract. Its the Mike James effect lol (referencing Mike James's 20ppg year in Toronto)

Valkyrie
11-20-2010, 12:40 AM
I wouldn't take Bealsey back in Miami for free. I watched Beasley his entire Heat career. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective. If he can't mesh with a high usage rate player like Wade, you think he'd be able to play with him AND James? Also, he was traded so Miami could sign all 3 guys and also sign Miller/Haslem. I'm very happy we got rid of that ball hogging, no defense playing tweener.

John Hollinger on Beasley:


Beasley
Michael Beasley, Heat
Beasley still packs some amazing offensive potential, but the results just haven't been there this season. The shots are, however.

He averages 13.4 shots per game in only 29.8 minutes per game, but has a true shooting percentage of just 50.1 -- even with Dwyane Wade commanding most of the opponent's attention -- and assists on just 7.2 percent of his possessions, putting him in the bottom third of power forwards. Beasley has by far the highest usage rate (23.3) of any frontcourt player with a TS% under 51.

In summary, Beasley can put the ball in the hoop, but he is not a winner, which is probably why the Wolves are 4-10 right now. Any team led by Michael Beasley will not be title contenders

drobe86
11-20-2010, 01:13 AM
I wouldn't take Bealsey back in Miami for free. I watched Beasley his entire Heat career. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective. If he can't mesh with a high usage rate player like Wade, you think he'd be able to play with him AND James? Also, he was traded so Miami could sign all 3 guys and also sign Miller/Haslem. I'm very happy we got rid of that ball hogging, no defense playing tweener.

Beasley can suck my dick.

John Hollinger on Beasley:



In summary, Beasley can put the ball in the hoop, but he is not a winner, which is probably why the Wolves are 4-10 right now. Any team led by Michael Beasley will not be title contenders

+1... People are hyped up over Beasley balling out on an awful Twolves team. Hes like a 3 star player on Rivals that plays on a bad team. Somebody has to score the pts and he's the best one of 12 bums.....

BlondeBomber41
11-20-2010, 06:36 AM
I'm also pretty sure Beasley went to the Andrea Bargnani School for Rebounding.... 33 minutes a game and not even 6 boards? YOU ARE 6-10!

BradyIsTheMan12
11-20-2010, 07:31 AM
Beasley isn't nearly as good as many are making him out to be now, but not saying he's bad. Beasley looks like the type of player who will score with the best of 'em going forward, but he still needs to expand his game. Definitely wish the Heat had not traded him into the Northwest though, he looks like he could be an elite scorer going forward..

nbafan63
11-20-2010, 07:57 AM
Put any good scorer on this team and they can avg 25ppg. Put Monta Ellis on this team and I bet he avg 35ppg.

Foye
11-20-2010, 10:44 AM
I'm also pretty sure Beasley went to the Andrea Bargnani School for Rebounding.... 33 minutes a game and not even 6 boards? YOU ARE 6-10!

He's playing SF on a team with the possibly best rebounder in the NBA. I would say almost 6 rebs is fine there.

John Walls Era
11-20-2010, 11:22 AM
I'm also pretty sure Beasley went to the Andrea Bargnani School for Rebounding.... 33 minutes a game and not even 6 boards? YOU ARE 6-10!

6 rebounds??? ****, he definitely graduated with honors. I wish AB gets a consistent 6 boards with his 20+ PPG.


As for Beasley, hes getting good numbers by taking a lot of shots. IMO he is what he is, hes not a guy that will ever be an all star (Max AS appearances: 1).

JasonJohnHorn
11-20-2010, 11:56 AM
Since the Lakers essentially involved two first round picks that were late in the first round, picks that generally dont develop into franchise players, and a second round pick (Marc Gasol), Kwambe Brown (bust) and Jarvis (who has yet to play a game since his suspension), and they landed a franchise player and won a title, while the T-Wolves were handed a problem player who was considered a bust and has done nothing to improve the T-Wolves standing as a lottery team, then I'd say there is no arguement on hte planet that could possibly suggest that the T-Wolves got the bigger steal.

Look at it this way: the T-Wolves are 4-10 since that trade, the Lakers have been to the NBA finals EVERY YEAR since they got Gasol, and have two NBA championships to go along with three conference championships and three division titles, and the T-Wolves were a lotter team before Beasley, and remain a lottery team with Beasley, I'd say the Gasol trade was quantifiably a bigger steal. Beasley is averaging 20+ on a losing teams. That is what Mike James did in Toronto. The guy is not anywhere near the same class of player as Gasol, on or off the court. and helping a lottery team stay a lottery team is nothing worth note in my book. Helping a team go from first round elimination (almost a sweep) to an NBA championship is huge!

I'm sorry, but anybody who even thinks the Beasley trade is a bigger steal has no clue what is important about the game.

Storch
11-20-2010, 12:57 PM
How so? The Lakers have been to 3 straight Finals appearance and have won 2 championships since Gasol came to town.. I think that's greater than landing big names.

You can't argue that because Kobe Bryant and the rest of the Laker squad is just as responsible for their success and Gasol is not the sole reason the Lakers accomplished all of those things.

The thread is asking who got the bigger steal? Well looking at it the Lakers gave up Marc Gasol, Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, and Aaron Mckie for Gasol. Those are two serviceable Centers (rare in the NBA), Marc can potentially be a real star someday and a lot of cap room to achieve what they have today in Gay, Mayo, Conley, and Randolph(?forgot his name?).

The Twolves on the other hand gave up picks to get Beasley. Bigs take longer to develop in the NBA than PGs, everyone knows that. Beasley has a lot of potential. He may not have been an all-star producer in the Heat next to wade, but it can be arguable that they system that spoelstra ran was just not a good fit for him. Giving up two picks for Beasley is a robbery in my opinion, and it is far worse than the Gasol trade since Twolves gave up nothing to get him.

king4day
11-20-2010, 03:11 PM
Gasol was more a steal in that he was already established and an allstar. Beasley, people were writing off. They needed the extra money to fill needs.

Hawkeye15
11-20-2010, 03:38 PM
+1... People are hyped up over Beasley balling out on an awful Twolves team. Hes like a 3 star player on Rivals that plays on a bad team. Somebody has to score the pts and he's the best one of 12 bums.....

what is with your constant bashing of the Wolves? There are proper ways to make a point without crapping on a franchise everytime you get the chance.

Sly Guy
11-20-2010, 03:56 PM
Gasol was a bigger steal. I have yet to see Beasley produce like this for a whole season.

this. Not to shy away from anything he's done so far, but I'm far from sold on Beas....

Storch
11-20-2010, 04:17 PM
Gasol was more a steal in that he was already established and an allstar. Beasley, people were writing off. They needed the extra money to fill needs.

That's a very ignorant post imo. You're comparing Gasol vs. Beasley without looking at the trade pieces in play. The argument you are making is off-topic, so are most of the premises that people have presented in this thread.

To put it simpler terms, the question is not: Who is better? Gasol or Beasley? Instead, keep in mind the question is which is the bigger steal. You are saying that an acquisition of Gasol (one time all star that led the grizz to no more than a first round exit) in exchange for a really good Center in Marc and a serviceable Center in Kwame is greater than two first round picks that got beasley? Get real.

curtie74
11-20-2010, 04:20 PM
Its about winning championships not the best stats so whatever beas do he will never win a ring so hahaha go san antonio

IndiansFan337
11-20-2010, 05:30 PM
There was a big difference between the two trades. Beasley was shopped to everyone in the NBA & Minnesota presented the best offer. According to many front offices after the Gasol trade, they would have given up more than the LAL's did in order to acquire Gasol. But they never were presented with the opportunity to do so.

Storch
11-20-2010, 05:37 PM
There was a big difference between the two trades. Beasley was shopped to everyone in the NBA & Minnesota presented the best offer. According to many front offices after the Gasol trade, they would have given up more than the LAL's did in order to acquire Gasol. But they never were presented with the opportunity to do so.

There are many weaknesses in your statements. Where is the real proof that any of this was true? How can a critic really make a statement about a conspiracy theory such as this one? Ever consider that the Grizzlies were targeting Marc GAsol? He was the MVP in Europe, I'm sure everyone overlooked that repeatedly. There is no hard facts behind your statement and it doesn't justify the argument.

MiamiWadeCounty
11-20-2010, 05:39 PM
from the heats POV it was a good trade because they were able to get their guys. also the question should be WHY did 28 other teams pass up on Beasley when Miami had such a low asking price

Wisdom Listens
11-20-2010, 06:03 PM
It was a steal in the sense of someone stealing $10,000 from Bill Gates. Yeah they just got $10,000 for basically nothing, but I doubt Gates is gonna miss it.

koreancabbage
11-20-2010, 10:27 PM
no, unless Minnesota wins a championship lol

dee279
11-20-2010, 10:39 PM
Beasley was traded so The Heat could sign the big 3 and also get veterans to fit with the big 3. Beasley was not playing well in the Spo Scheme so its not that big of a deall to me. Did the Heat give Beasley up fo too less? Hell yes but the Heat will make it through. Memphis has not. Miami basically traded Beasley for the big 3 and Haslem. Beasley just plays well in a faster pace scheme which i been said he would and is mainly the reason i always said Spo is not a good coach.

Blazers#1Fan
11-20-2010, 10:51 PM
i picked beasley because they gave up nothing to get him lakers gave up marc gasol and 2 1st round picks

Chronz
11-21-2010, 12:56 AM
Heres the thing, Pau trade may have been more respectable in hindsight but what about Kahn giving Al Jefferson to the Jazz for free? I bet that pissed off alot more GM's than the Beasley theft. Well unless they are pissed for the fact that Kahn made it easier for the BIG3 to build a supporting cast

The Jokemaker
11-21-2010, 03:18 AM
Beasley was.

I've never been of the opinion the Gasol trade was a heist unlike what 99% of basketball fans and the media think. Kwame Brown's cap space led to the ability to sign Zach Randolph who had a critical role in the Grizzlies resurgence last season and played a major part in beating the Heat tonight. Meanwhile, Marc Gasol is continually improving and is one of the better centers in the NBA which is a difficult position to fill.
The lakers 2008 draft pick led to donte green who was traded for darrel arthur. Darrell arthur had 12 points in the first quarter of tonight's game.
The lakers 2010 draft pick led to greivis vasquez who I think has a pretty good future but he's still a rookie.

So essentially the deal resulted in Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, Darrell Arthur, and Greivis Vasquez. Pretty good deal and hardly a heist.

The Jokemaker
11-21-2010, 03:20 AM
Beasley was traded so The Heat could sign the big 3 and also get veterans to fit with the big 3. Beasley was not playing well in the Spo Scheme so its not that big of a deall to me. Did the Heat give Beasley up fo too less? Hell yes but the Heat will make it through. Memphis has not. Miami basically traded Beasley for the big 3 and Haslem. Beasley just plays well in a faster pace scheme which i been said he would and is mainly the reason i always said Spo is not a good coach.

2nd most improved team last year. Learn your facts before you make preposterous claims.

The Jokemaker
11-21-2010, 03:23 AM
That's a very ignorant post imo. You're comparing Gasol vs. Beasley without looking at the trade pieces in play. The argument you are making is off-topic, so are most of the premises that people have presented in this thread.

To put it simpler terms, the question is not: Who is better? Gasol or Beasley? Instead, keep in mind the question is which is the bigger steal. You are saying that an acquisition of Gasol (one time all star that led the grizz to no more than a first round exit) in exchange for a really good Center in Marc and a serviceable Center in Kwame is greater than two first round picks that got beasley? Get real.

minny traded two SECOND round picks for beasley.

memphis received 2 first round ipcks in the gasol trade.

Wade>You
11-21-2010, 03:25 AM
A big difference is he's getting the line more often and not being whistled for fouls like he was with the Heat. In Miami, he was the #1 player to have his shot ""blocked" Now those blocks are FTAs.

Blazers#1Fan
11-21-2010, 04:25 AM
Beasley was.

I've never been of the opinion the Gasol trade was a heist unlike what 99% of basketball fans and the media think. Kwame Brown's cap space led to the ability to sign Zach Randolph who had a critical role in the Grizzlies resurgence last season and played a major part in beating the Heat tonight. Meanwhile, Marc Gasol is continually improving and is one of the better centers in the NBA which is a difficult position to fill.
The lakers 2008 draft pick led to donte green who was traded for darrel arthur. Darrell arthur had 12 points in the first quarter of tonight's game.
The lakers 2010 draft pick led to greivis vasquez who I think has a pretty good future but he's still a rookie.

So essentially the deal resulted in Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, Darrell Arthur, and Greivis Vasquez. Pretty good deal and hardly a heist.

:clap:

is anybody reading the question who was a bigger still in a trade not who won a championship! after the trade the question is asking who got a better deal when you give up a center like marc gasol and 2 first round picks then they get Zach randolph with the cap space from the trade that isnt a steal thats a legit trade IMO

but giving up 2 2nd round picks for a player that is finding his game again is a no brainer......the reason why teams passed on beasley was because he was said to be smokin weed and partying all the time thats why he was passed on i think minnesota was the best place for him to go! to bad they didnt wait a bit longer though there wouldnt be the 3 Bl**** in miami

el_primo_nano
11-21-2010, 01:28 PM
I'm also pretty sure Beasley went to the Andrea Bargnani School for Rebounding.... 33 minutes a game and not even 6 boards? YOU ARE 6-10!

thats funny that you have me on your sig. Tough series for you guys after us though huh?:eyebrow:

tangent12
11-21-2010, 01:31 PM
Beasley has yet to prove he was the biggest steal so I'll have to go with Pau who's already proven he was a steal.

footballer2369
11-21-2010, 02:01 PM
I'm also pretty sure Beasley went to the Andrea Bargnani School for Rebounding.... 33 minutes a game and not even 6 boards? YOU ARE 6-10!

He's 6'8" and he plays SF for the Wolves next to one of the best rebounders in the league Kevin Love....

Hardly a problem, if anything it's something he does better than most of the players at his position....

king4day
11-21-2010, 02:16 PM
That's a very ignorant post imo. You're comparing Gasol vs. Beasley without looking at the trade pieces in play. The argument you are making is off-topic, so are most of the premises that people have presented in this thread.

To put it simpler terms, the question is not: Who is better? Gasol or Beasley? Instead, keep in mind the question is which is the bigger steal. You are saying that an acquisition of Gasol (one time all star that led the grizz to no more than a first round exit) in exchange for a really good Center in Marc and a serviceable Center in Kwame is greater than two first round picks that got beasley? Get real.

Putting aside who is better, there was no assurance when Marc Gasol would come to the Griz at that time. They simply got his rights. Kwame was and is garbage. You cannot use what Marc Gasol has done now to make it sound like Pau to the Lakers was fair. Everyone knew he had talent, but no one knew he'd be this good.

Also, Beasley had struggled with Miami for 2 years. No one knew he'd get this much better either. If we're looking at hindsight...knowing what we know now, then of course Beasley was more a steal. But it needs to be looked at from the point of the trade. Lakers were contending for a ring and the Grizzlies gave them Pau.
Miami needed the cap space and had a piece they could get rid of that wasn't helping their team, that would give them some cap relief.

Never-the-less, since then, there's been other trades that are probably worse than Pau's. Al Jefferson being one of them.

hugepatsfan
11-21-2010, 02:56 PM
The Gasol trade is not as bad as we originally though. Because Marc has become very good. At the time he wasn't even in the US yet. MEM also got cap room, which is huge whenever a team trades their star. MEM either scouted Marc really well or just got tremendously lucky.

J-Relo
11-21-2010, 04:08 PM
He's 6'8" and he plays SF for the Wolves next to one of the best rebounders in the league Kevin Love....

Hardly a problem, if anything it's something he does better than most of the players at his position....


As far as I remember Beasley was that 6'10 power forward drafted from Kansas.

PurpleJesus
11-21-2010, 04:26 PM
I'm also pretty sure Beasley went to the Andrea Bargnani School for Rebounding.... 33 minutes a game and not even 6 boards? YOU ARE 6-10!

Beasley plays SF, and he is actually about 6'8", NBA website doesnt have his height appropriately listed

PurpleJesus
11-21-2010, 04:27 PM
As far as I remember Beasley was that 6'10 power forward drafted from Kansas.

he plays SF now, and he's 6'8"...Love plays PF for the Wolves, Beasley plas SF