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View Full Version : GORDON to the BLUE JAYS?



KC JAYHAWK
11-18-2010, 01:21 PM
...Yep, that's the new rumour and guess what?..... this Royals Fan says, "See Ya, don't let the door hit you in the "b**t on the way out".

GeronimoSon
11-19-2010, 11:01 AM
......Yep, that's the new rumour and guess what?..... While your expression of frustration about what could happen with Alex Gordon..a more realistic appraisal may find the Royals in a better position to compete sooner in the AL Central if a trade is made that completes the team. There is feeling that the Royals will inevitably lose the services of Zach Greinke, the staff ace. There is a similar 'feeling' about Alex Gordon, as he has not lived up to his initial billing from where he was drafted. The prevailing sentiment is "it's not if.. it's when". If a trade of Greinke along with Alex "I'm going to dominate next year" Gordon can be made that infuses the Royals with several near MLB ready or MLB ready players.. it has to be considered. That's what the Hot Stove is all about.. Expressing indignation about it, won't serve a useful end..regardless of sentiment to keep a favorite..

Now.. the Toronto situation does have some merit as the Jays have a number of young starting pitchers and pitching prospects that could certainly make the Royals much more dangerous in a nearer time frame. If a trade of Greinke + Gordon brings back high end MLB ready SP prospects such as Brandon Morrow & Kyle Drabek along with an Aaron Hill & Travis D'Arnaud, this would vastly improve the Royals overall roster and competitive postion.

There may be other potential trade partners that may be even better. Example: the Philadelphia Phillies..

How would the Royals look if they were to engineer a trade centered around Dominic Brown as the primary "piece"? Putting Dominic Brown in the Royals lineup as their # 3 or # 4 hitter to go along with the up and coming pair of Mike Moustakas and Eric Hosmer would make the Royals already potent offense even moreso?

The Royals have drafted some impressive top end arms over the past few first entry drafts.. some are at the MLB level.. others are coming like the train in "Unstoppable".. Montgomery, Lamb & newly acquired Vin Mazzaro to go with the 'remnants' of a relatively poor starting pitching and middle relief staff that DID include Zach Greinke ... didn't get the job done..

This gives rise to the question.. should the Royals remain patient with their current inhouse talent? (knowing full well that the clock/timer for Greinke's stay in KC is running out).. or, should they consider moving their staff ace and a current "not a bust yet, but moving that way" talent in Alex Gordon?




{Please note: I'm not a phillies fan, a jays fan.. and certainly not a Royals fan.. It would not be a "happy time" to have to face a lineup as described above if the Royals were to make this type of block buster trade..}

treeleaf
11-21-2010, 11:11 PM
As a jays fan I would like to see gordons bat in our lineup
Since grinke i heard is going to the cubs the deal would probably center around stewart +
With the exception as dearnaud as a + none of those players listed would be your return.
Lol and u wish u kould get Moustakas as a + i think he is not going ANYWHERE he is a future stud I absolutly adore his game
But you guys want a good arm and the jays got plenty

GeronimoSon
11-22-2010, 11:05 AM
As a jays fan I would like to see gordons bat in our lineup
Since grinke i heard is going to the cubs the deal would probably center around stewart +
With the exception as dearnaud as a + none of those players listed would be your return.
Lol and u wish u kould get Moustakas as a + i think he is not going ANYWHERE he is a future stud I absolutly adore his game
But you guys want a good arm and the jays got plenty
huh??

jaysfan2929
12-01-2010, 07:08 PM
hahaha i was thinking the same thing reading that post! I cant make anything of it! As for the other post about possible trade ideas, i cant see the Jays getting in on the Zach Greinke sweepstakes. It was rumored for sure, but pitching isnt what the Jays need right now, even one as good as Zach. Now Gordon, hes a bit more attractive to the 3b'less Jays. I wouldnt expect too much of a crazy return for him, I cant see Drabek, Hill or Morrow going away in a trade for Gordon - maybe D'Arnaud only cause the Jays are currently deep at catching prospects. Wasnt Gordon sent to the minors to redevelop as an outfielder? Whats the story there from a Royals perspective, no good at third or making way for a better prospect??

Karlos49
12-08-2010, 02:08 AM
i cannot stop laughing at that mans comment

GeronimoSon
12-17-2010, 09:27 AM
i cannot stop laughing at that mans commentBy now.. you should have stopped laughing.. there hasn't been much more in the way of rumors about the Royals moving Greinke from the Royals side of the equation.

The HUGE signing by the Phillies to take away the Yankees 'perfect addition' has to have the Royals fans 'concerned' about the long term status of Zach Greinke as a Royal. Add to the fact that the Yankees may soon learn that their fair haired boy & part of the "core four" may be hanging them up.. can panic and desperation be far behind?. Pundits in the NY papers have already called this offseason a "..DISASTER.. & (Mr) Cashman needs to be fired!!.." The Red Sox have added to their offensive woes by subtracting players from the division winning Rays.. Something clearly needs to be done.. and signing a .248 hitting catcher with a broken hip.. aint it...

How would the Royals be able to exploit this desperation? The Yankees farm system is not the deepest in MLB.. never is, but they do have some interesting gems:

Four Pitching prospects: Manny Banuelos (already has the Man-Ban nickname) Delin Betances, Andrew Brackman (together being called the killer B's) and David Phelps.

Three hitting prospects: Jesus Montero, a hard hitting/power elite bat with marginal defensive skills behind the plate, Austen Romine, superior defensive catcher with "some" hitting skills and Brandon Laird, limited defensive 3b/LF with an excellent bat.

Those seven guys could be "in play" for an eventual trade that helps the Royals while NOT sending Zach Greinke to New York. That is.. the genesis of a three way trade:

Yankees get: Josh Johnson SP
Marlins get: Zach Greinke SP, Brandon Laird SP and NYY $$$
Royals get: Man-Ban SP, David Phelps SP, Jesus Montero C, Matt Dominguez 3B

B1rks
12-17-2010, 02:47 PM
Jays would never give up that amount of talent for the inconsistant Greinke. I could see Kyle Drabek and Travis Snider going back the other way but not Morrow who will be a 20 game winner in the near future.

GeronimoSon
12-17-2010, 07:11 PM
Jays would never give up that amount of talent for the inconsistant Greinke. I could see Kyle Drabek and Travis Snider going back the other way but not Morrow who will be a 20 game winner in the near future. You'd be wrong.. Greinke inconsistent?.. where do you get that?

SEASON▲ TEAM▲ W▼ L▼ ERA▼ G▼ GS▼ CG▼ SHO▼ SV▼ SVO▼ IP▼ H▼ R▼ ER▼ HR▼ HB▼ BB▼ SO▼ AVG▼ WHIP▼ GO/AO
2008 KC 13 10 3.47 32 32 1 0 0 0 202.1 202 87 78 21 4 56 183 .257 1.28 1.03 118
2009 KC 16 8 2.16 33 33 6 3 0 0 229.1 195 64 55 11 4 51 242 .230 1.07 0.89 118
2010 KC 10 14 4.17 33 33 3 0 0 0 220.0 219 114 102 18 7 55 181 .260 1.25 1.27 118
CAREER 60 67 3.82 210 169 12 3 1 1 1108.0 1121 509 470 112 39 280 931 .262 1.26 0.91

These are the numbers for Greinke over the last three years and his career stats.. A MODEL of consistency.. Drabek and Snider with Morrow.. would be a good start...

mycokes
12-18-2010, 02:26 AM
You'd be wrong.. Greinke inconsistent?.. where do you get that?

SEASON▲ TEAM▲ W▼ L▼ ERA▼ G▼ GS▼ CG▼ SHO▼ SV▼ SVO▼ IP▼ H▼ R▼ ER▼ HR▼ HB▼ BB▼ SO▼ AVG▼ WHIP▼ GO/AO
2008 KC 13 10 3.47 32 32 1 0 0 0 202.1 202 87 78 21 4 56 183 .257 1.28 1.03 118
2009 KC 16 8 2.16 33 33 6 3 0 0 229.1 195 64 55 11 4 51 242 .230 1.07 0.89 118
2010 KC 10 14 4.17 33 33 3 0 0 0 220.0 219 114 102 18 7 55 181 .260 1.25 1.27 118
CAREER 60 67 3.82 210 169 12 3 1 1 1108.0 1121 509 470 112 39 280 931 .262 1.26 0.91

These are the numbers for Greinke over the last three years and his career stats.. A MODEL of consistency.. Drabek and Snider with Morrow.. would be a good start...

not sure if u r being serious since i cant read the stats you posted throught the formatting. regardless, you can keep greinke for that price. soria on the other hand ... you can still keep him. there is no chance the jays give that up for anyone.

StealingSigns
12-20-2010, 05:40 PM
Drabek and Snider with Morrow.. would be a good start...

Looks like the Royals got NOWHERE NEAR that.

GeronimoSon
12-22-2010, 08:57 AM
Looks like the Royals got NOWHERE NEAR that.

Like so many trades of this nature, the true value won't be complete revealed until 1 1/2 to 3 years from now.. The Brewers certainly came out ahead from a short term perspective.... If they dump that lazy POS Betancourt, the short term benefits for the Brewers will rise..

With respect to what the Royals did recieve for Greinke,.. it's pretty clear the Royals are filling an immediate need:

Alcides Escobar: He's a master defenseman with plus range, soft hands and a good arm. He should develop a bit more power as he matures and use his speed more effectively. This will take some time, but the Royals have a true stud at SS for now and on into the immediate future.

Lorenzo Cain:CF: Cain is a premium athlete who plays a premium position in center field. While he was drafted back in 2004 in the 17th round and will be 25 next April, in many ways he's much younger in baseball years. That's because Cain didn't start his baseball career until later than most, playing his sophomore year of high school for the first time.

He's come a long way since then, making his Major League debut this past season. He's shown a ability to hit for average (.291 in his Minor League career, .317 in 2010) and get on base (.366), as well as steal bases (124 in his career, 26 out of 29 in 2010). He's got good bat speed and altheticism, along with off-the-charts makeup. His speed works well on both sides of the ball; Cain is a plus defender in center field.

Jeremy Jeffress, RHP: There are few pitchers with more life in their arms than Jeffress, the Brewers' first-round pick (No. 16 overall) in the 2006 First-Year Player Draft. He can crank his fastball up around the 100-mph range, and routinely throws 97-98. Along with the plus fastball, he's got a plus curve, a 76-mph hard-downer breaking ball. In the past, he's had a changeup, typically below-average, but now that he's made the switch to a relief role, he can focus on his two plus offerings.

Jeffress had been working as a starter, but made the move to the bullpen in 2010, a role most saw as more suitable for him, given his power stuff and command issues. He made 24 relief outings in the Minors this past season, finishing with a 2.23 ERA and 43 strikeouts in 32 1/3 innings. He held hitters to a measly .157 batting average against, leading to his first callup to the big leagues. He appeared in 10 games for the Brewers, allowing just three earned runs on eight hits while striking out eight and walking six.

Jake Odorizzi, RHP: One scout who saw Odorizzi, the Brewers' supplemental first-round pick (No. 32 overall) in the 2008 First-Year Player Draft, in the Midwest League this season, said he was the best pitching prospect he'd seen all summer. The 6-foot-2 right-hander, who was taken out of the Illinois high school ranks, was the Brewers' top pitching prospect.

Brought along slowly, Odorizzi debut in the rookie-level Arizona League in the summer after he was drafted. In 2009, he started the year in extended Spring Training before moving up to the rookie-level Pioneer League. He made his full-season debut with Wisconsin, making the Midwest League All-Star team and finishing with a 7-3 record, 3.43 ERA and 135 strikeouts in 120 2/3 innings. The 20-year-old finished third in the Brewers' organization with a 3.43 ERA and third in strikeouts. He was ninth in the Midwest League in ERA, sixth in K's and fourth in WHIP. Hitters managed just a .220 average against him.

Scouts see Odorizzi as having top-of-the-rotation starter-type stuff. He throws a good fastball up to 95 mph, and pitches at 91-93 comfortably. It comes with plenty of sink. He complements it with an outstanding curve, which is inconsistent, but shows as a plus pitch at times. He even has a slider, which was an above-average to plus pitch at times. His changeup is an average offering right now. He needs to find more consistency with his stuff and command, but his combination of four pitches, feel for pitching and makeup give him the upside to be a No. 2-type starter in the future. When it all comes together for him, he can be as dominant as any pitching prospect in baseball, with some thinking perhaps he can be in the future what Greinke is now.

(Note: take from MLB.com and other scouting report sources)

So, not close would be a matter of interpretation. It's pretty clear the Royals return is not chopped liver...

Humongo
12-29-2010, 09:26 PM
You'd be wrong.. Greinke inconsistent?.. where do you get that?

SEASON▲ TEAM▲ W▼ L▼ ERA▼ G▼ GS▼ CG▼ SHO▼ SV▼ SVO▼ IP▼ H▼ R▼ ER▼ HR▼ HB▼ BB▼ SO▼ AVG▼ WHIP▼ GO/AO
2008 KC 13 10 3.47 32 32 1 0 0 0 202.1 202 87 78 21 4 56 183 .257 1.28 1.03 118
2009 KC 16 8 2.16 33 33 6 3 0 0 229.1 195 64 55 11 4 51 242 .230 1.07 0.89 118
2010 KC 10 14 4.17 33 33 3 0 0 0 220.0 219 114 102 18 7 55 181 .260 1.25 1.27 118
CAREER 60 67 3.82 210 169 12 3 1 1 1108.0 1121 509 470 112 39 280 931 .262 1.26 0.91

These are the numbers for Greinke over the last three years and his career stats.. A MODEL of consistency.. Drabek and Snider with Morrow.. would be a good start...

Um, wow. That's ridiculous.

GeronimoSon
12-30-2010, 10:34 AM
Um, wow. That's ridiculous.

Um wow?.. ridiculous?.. sure thing sparky... The situation with Greinke and the need to trade him was exacerbated by Greinke's demand to be traded. While the Royals could have just said.. forget it.. the damage had already been done.. so the Royals took a good deal (in their eyes) for a pitcher who won't be visiting the Big K on a regular basis..

Um wow?

StealingSigns
01-05-2011, 12:03 AM
Um wow?.. ridiculous?.. sure thing sparky... The situation with Greinke and the need to trade him was exacerbated by Greinke's demand to be traded. While the Royals could have just said.. forget it.. the damage had already been done.. so the Royals took a good deal (in their eyes) for a pitcher who won't be visiting the Big K on a regular basis..

Um wow?

...but not even in the same stratosphere as the players you mentioned from the Jays as "a good start".

wagnall
01-07-2011, 11:35 PM
Good move to send Grienke to Brewers, you got some good prospects. To be honest we were not that interested in Grienke as everyone said. For a few prospects maybe, but not Snider or Drabek. But I like what you got, your team has a promoising future. Hope we have the same .

Good luck and Happy NewYear