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View Full Version : I Was Wrong Wrong Wrong..... Beasley is the Man!



Tony_Starks
11-12-2010, 11:57 PM
I have to give props and admit when I was in error and I must say I misjudged the young B-Easy. I put him in the category of lifetime underachievers and never-will-be's but he's looking reeeeeeeal nice as of late. A guess the change in scenery was all that was needed.

You never know, I thought being Wade's sidekick was a perfect role for him but in retrospect it was probably just way too much pressure. At any rate its a pleasure to see him doing his thing!

daleja424
11-13-2010, 12:03 AM
LMAO...he is the exact same guy he has been his whole career... except now he gets 30 FGAs a game instead of 10...

Hawkeye15
11-13-2010, 12:10 AM
LMAO...he is the exact same guy he has been his whole career... except now he gets 30 FGAs a game instead of 10...

he is being used correctly as well. The Wolves don't stick him in a corner and make him watch Wade.

daleja424
11-13-2010, 12:12 AM
his offensive rating has gone down...

he is being used the same ways... he is just being used more.

beasley was given free reigns at times in Miami... BUT he was not given free reigns for 40 minutes a night like he is in Minny. In Minny he is your best offensive option... that is not true in Miami. Has nothing to do with us stifling him... he was just a sidekick in miami...

IndyRealist
11-13-2010, 12:13 AM
Starting to look that way.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2010, 12:15 AM
his offensive rating has gone down...

he is being used the same ways... he is just being used more.

beasley was given free reigns at times in Miami... BUT he was not given free reigns for 40 minutes a night like he is in Minny. In Minny he is your best offensive option... that is not true in Miami. Has nothing to do with us stifling him... he was just a sidekick in miami...

i was harsh on Beas when he was with Miami, and have continued to be that way. But recently, he has shown a matured ability. Will it last? Eh, I don't know. But the Wolves use him way different than Miami did.
btw, let his game tonight factor into his offensive rating, it will be updated tomorrow..

Tony_Starks
11-13-2010, 12:16 AM
his offensive rating has gone down...

he is being used the same ways... he is just being used more.

beasley was given free reigns at times in Miami... BUT he was not given free reigns for 40 minutes a night like he is in Minny. In Minny he is your best offensive option... that is not true in Miami. Has nothing to do with us stifling him... he was just a sidekick in miami...

Well in Miami they also went back and forth on if he was a 3 or 4 which could throw your game off too. He seems a bit more comfortable now. Are you just judging by stats or actually watching him play? Watching him play now vs the last few years its night and day, not just the shots but his whole swagger is off the charts.....

daleja424
11-13-2010, 12:18 AM
lol... honestly...this is just a matter of media crap. Beasley was plenty mature and was a really good player down here... but he didnt put up huge games b/c that wasnt his role. Im sorry, but you are trying to make this sound like Beasley has finally found himself...when the reality is, he is the same dude, with the same skills, but now he has a couple games where they give him 30 FGAs and he puts up a couple 30+ point games...and now suddenly people notice his talent. It has always been there...but people have been to eager to put the kid down to actually notice.

daleja424
11-13-2010, 12:20 AM
Well in Miami they also went back and forth on if he was a 3 or 4 which could throw your game off too. He seems a bit more comfortable now. Are you just judging by stats or actually watching him play? Watching him play now vs the last few years its night and day, not just the shots but his whole swagger is off the charts.....

there was no confusion... in Miami he was a 4. In Minny, they made him a 3...b/c Love is a 4. Beasley is better at the 4... so if anything...they are hurting a little IMO.

and sure he has more confidence... he put up 40 points...

the facts remain... he is doing everything the same.. he is just being given te chance to do it far more often up there...

what54!?
11-13-2010, 12:22 AM
He can take a lot shots in minny. couldn't do that with the heat. If he got too trigger happy he got yanked (hot or cold). Happy for him but he wouldn't have thrived next to wade for all those "miami should have kept him sayers".

Tony_Starks
11-13-2010, 12:34 AM
He can take a lot shots in minny. couldn't do that with the heat. If he got too trigger happy he got yanked (hot or cold). Happy for him but he wouldn't have thrived next to wade for all those "miami should have kept him sayers".


Nah I wouldnt go so far as to say they should've kept him, he definitely had to go. But he's not the same player. In Miami his confidence was shook, if he missed his first few jumpers he was pretty much a ghost for the rest of the game. I agree that comes with knowing you have a longer leash but honestly he was looking so bad in Miami, so different than the B-Easy I saw in college, that I was really ready to label him a bust. He looked like a lost little kid out there....

He's not just jacking up bad shots either, he's taking good shots and shooting a nice %. Its just a couple of games, I can't overdo it, but Im just saying its refreshing to see him on the court actually having an impact.

Hoopsadvocate
11-13-2010, 12:36 AM
thank you for saying what many of us have said for the past 2 years. The media had u all fooled (kinda like it does now with needless hate) Beasley can score we all knew that its wether he can do anything else that mattered to us. He still cant rebound that well his defense is still sub par and hes not a great playmaker. But with the ball in his hands he cant get u points. Nothing new.

WSU Tony
11-13-2010, 12:56 AM
Miami has sellers remorse!

John Walls Era
11-13-2010, 01:05 AM
Still the same old player to me. His stats look nicer because now he takes 25+ shots a game. He can score, but thats about it.

gbpackers12
11-13-2010, 01:07 AM
How you get a top 2 draft pick that cheap when he's still so young is beyond me.

WSU Tony
11-13-2010, 01:07 AM
Still the same old player to me. His stats look nicer because now he takes 25+ shots a game. He can score, but thats about it.

Says the guy NOT watching the defense Beasley is playing. I bet you DIDN'T watch the Wolves game tonight, right?

daleja424
11-13-2010, 01:15 AM
lol... defense...another misconception...

he was actually a pretty solid defender last year. had a Drtg of 103 :up:

lemme guess... you didnt watch him last year...

(Its 111 this year btw...)

Hoopsadvocate
11-13-2010, 01:15 AM
Says the guy NOT watching the defense Beasley is playing. I bet you DIDN'T watch the Wolves game tonight, right?

oh ya he really held back chandler(17,7,6) and gallo (25,5). I was wrong nice defense beasley :rolleyes:

Jonathan2323
11-13-2010, 01:18 AM
Where is everyone that was saying Gallo is a better player now. Where is everyone saying that Beasley is a bust now. We saw Beasley play every game and we were telling everyone that this guy was a stud, but nobody believed us.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2010, 01:18 AM
lol... defense...another misconception...

he was actually a pretty solid defender last year. had a Drtg of 103 :up:

lemme guess... you didnt watch him last year...

(Its 111 this year btw...)

using Drtg is pathetic. Its a team stat. Find me a Boston defender with a bad Drtg.

WSU Tony
11-13-2010, 01:21 AM
Bang. That's why Hawk keeps up on the stats.

faze38
11-13-2010, 01:22 AM
The man is finally playing his natural position! It's also great to actually be able to do what u do best and that's create for Beasley! I mean the man is a problem and now I think the league will finally see that becuse he will be in the role he belongs in which is go to guy!

drew_ellis_23
11-13-2010, 01:26 AM
Its funny, Beasley can score, and now Bosh cant.

daleja424
11-13-2010, 01:26 AM
using Drtg is pathetic. Its a team stat. Find me a Boston defender with a bad Drtg.

fine... so then say it this way... he was a key part on a team that was 6th in the league in defensive rating...

and as some one who watched him every game... his defense really got underrated when he was on Miami...like every other aspect of his game did.

my point is rather simple... he isn't doing anything new this year... he is just not getting the mandatory HEAT hate from Bulls and Knicks fans...and he has scored a little more...and now he looks like a completely new player...except he isnt... HEAT fans have seen this player for two years...

WSU Tony
11-13-2010, 01:27 AM
Why is everyone happy to see Beasley finally reaching his potential EXCEPT for Miami Heat fans? Funny how that works!

We'll see if Beasley can keep this up for the season. I he averages 20+ PPG at a decent clip a 2nd round pick will be an absolute steal for him.

Jonathan2323
11-13-2010, 01:28 AM
Why is everyone happy to see Beasley finally reaching his potential EXCEPT for Miami Heat fans? Funny how that works!

We'll see if Beasley can keep this up for the season. I he averages 20+ PPG at a decent clip a 2nd round pick will be an absolute steal for him.

Im happy for Beasley and i think most Heat fans are. He was cheered when he returned to play aganist Miami. Anything else you want to hate us on?

WSU Tony
11-13-2010, 01:29 AM
fine... so then say it this way... he was a key part on a team that was 6th in the league in defensive rating...

and as some one who watched him every game... his defense really got underrated when he was on Miami...like every other aspect of his game did.

my point is rather simple... he isn't doing anything new this year... he is just not getting the mandatory HEAT hate from Bulls and Knicks fans...and he has scored a little more...and now he looks like a completely new player...except he isnt... HEAT fans have seen this player for two years...

So your saying your right. By saying your right you saying the heat gave him to the Wolves as an absolute steal?

I'm confused at what your REALLY saying.

daleja424
11-13-2010, 01:30 AM
Its funny, Beasley can score, and now Bosh cant.

Thats just ignorance.

Bosh has an offensive rating of 117 this year and a TS% of .550

Beasley has an offensive rating of 99 and a TS% of .519

The difference in these guys is that Beasley is getting used 10% more a game than Bosh b/c of circumstance.

Kyben36
11-13-2010, 01:31 AM
Just about to create a thread, he has played well this year, but im still not sure if he is a SF or PF. He is talented though. I give him props.

faze38
11-13-2010, 01:31 AM
Where is everyone that was saying Gallo is a better player now. Where is everyone saying that Beasley is a bust now. We saw Beasley play every game and we were telling everyone that this guy was a stud, but nobody believed us.

O please now that is just dumb the man was not a stud in Miami! It wasn't his fault tho but the man looked like a bust because all he did most of the time was watch Wade play! I mean u guys really have no offensive system all u guys do is run Iso and have everyone else stand around! If u guys were coached by Phil Jackson Beasley would have looked like an animal!

daleja424
11-13-2010, 01:33 AM
So your saying your right. By saying your right you saying the heat gave him to the Wolves as an absolute steal?

I'm confused at what your REALLY saying.

Im saying that this is nothing new for beasley. We all knew that he would explode if/when he was given a chance...but we could never give him that chance.

Im saying that so many people were ignorantly bashing Beasley the last two years, that his stock dropped tremendously...and the HEAT couldnt get nearly what he was worth for him.

Great trade for Minny.

My point is just that anyone who was actually paying attention to Beasley instead of throwing proverbial stones would not be surprised with what he is doing right now.

Jonathan2323
11-13-2010, 01:33 AM
Thats just ignorance.

Bosh has an offensive rating of 117 this year and a TS% of .550

Beasley has an offensive rating of 99 and a TS% of .519

The difference in these guys is that Beasley is getting used 10% more a game than Bosh b/c of circumstance.

Keep hitting them with the facts, they might understand one day.

Hawkeye15
11-13-2010, 01:40 AM
fine... so then say it this way... he was a key part on a team that was 6th in the league in defensive rating...

and as some one who watched him every game... his defense really got underrated when he was on Miami...like every other aspect of his game did.

my point is rather simple... he isn't doing anything new this year... he is just not getting the mandatory HEAT hate from Bulls and Knicks fans...and he has scored a little more...and now he looks like a completely new player...except he isnt... HEAT fans have seen this player for two years...

all good man. I see maturity to date. I watched a ton of his games previous. Is my opinion on a short leash? Yep. But I am happy to date.

marlinsfan24
11-13-2010, 01:43 AM
Why is everyone happy to see Beasley finally reaching his potential EXCEPT for Miami Heat fans? Funny how that works!

We'll see if Beasley can keep this up for the season. I he averages 20+ PPG at a decent clip a 2nd round pick will be an absolute steal for him.

We are happy. In fact, I was one of the ones defending Beasley in other threads saying that he's been underrated by the media...I am not at all surprised by what hes doing.

daleja424
11-13-2010, 01:43 AM
you wont be disappointed Hawk... dude is a stud and you all got him for PENNIES!

He has always been a stud though...some people just wouldn't bother to watch to find out

Russollini
11-13-2010, 01:45 AM
I am a Heat fan, I stated last year why pay Bosh, when Beas is the same player, but younger, and more athletic. This issue was Spo and Wade. Spo can not control the team and call a play. Wade did not like him.

I feel like a broken record, but people don't want to call a spade a spade here.

I am real happy for Beas, I am disappointed that we gave him away for nothing so we could sign vet mins and UD. No buyers or sellers remorse, just confused on who is actually in control down in Miami.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daleja424
Thats just ignorance.

Bosh has an offensive rating of 117 this year and a TS% of .550

Beasley has an offensive rating of 99 and a TS% of .519

The difference in these guys is that Beasley is getting used 10% more a game than Bosh b/c of circumstance.
Keep hitting them with the facts, they might understand one day.

As for the above they are about equal, the question is why spend all the money when you have a cheap option of equal BBall value.

AIRMAR72
11-13-2010, 01:50 AM
I am a Heat fan, I stated last year why pay Bosh, when Beas is the same player, but younger, and more athletic. This issue was Spo and Wade. Spo can not control the team and call a play. Wade did not like him.

I feel like a broken record, but people don't want to call a spade a spade here.

I am real happy for Beas, I am disappointed that we gave him away for nothing so we could sign vet mins and UD. No buyers or sellers remorse, just confused on who is actually in control down in Miami.

3-5YRS from now heat mangement will regret that they trade beasly

Hawkeye15
11-13-2010, 01:51 AM
you wont be disappointed Hawk... dude is a stud and you all got him for PENNIES!

He has always been a stud though...some people just wouldn't bother to watch to find out

eh, he has still been inefficient the majority of the time. I am hoping he really accepts his role as an aggressive player versus a role player, like he was in Miami. Beasley has a ways to go to earn my overall respect.
But yes, for what the Wolves gave up for him, how could I not be elated??

Jonathan2323
11-13-2010, 01:52 AM
3-5YRS from now heat mangement will regret that they trade beasly

It wont matter if we win a championship. Bosh is more prepared to handle the pressure than Beasley.

marlinsfan24
11-13-2010, 01:53 AM
I am a Heat fan, I stated last year why pay Bosh, when Beas is the same player, but younger, and more athletic. This issue was Spo and Wade. Spo can not control the team and call a play. Wade did not like him.

I feel like a broken record, but people don't want to call a spade a spade here.

I am real happy for Beas, I am disappointed that we gave him away for nothing so we could sign vet mins and UD. No buyers or sellers remorse, just confused on who is actually in control down in Miami.


Wade said he considers Beasley to be his little brother.

what54!?
11-13-2010, 01:57 AM
I don't see where people think that us heat fans aren't happy for beasley. We are. Most of us wanted him gone so he can do whats he's doing now, show his skills becuase it wasn't gonna happen on the HEAT. The wolves got a damn steal, us heats fans knew that but we also know why it had to be made

Hawkeye15
11-13-2010, 01:59 AM
I don't see where people think that us heat fans aren't happy for beasley. We are. Most of us wanted him gone so he can do whats he's doing now, show his skills becuase it wasn't gonna happen on the HEAT. The wolves got a damn steal, us heats fans knew that but we also know why it had to be made

I honestly can't remember a Heat fan crapping on him when the trade went down. I think most, if not all, of you guys have done nothing but wish him the best

Russollini
11-13-2010, 02:06 AM
Wade said he considers Beasley to be his little brother.

More like a red headed step brother lol

DoMeFavors
11-13-2010, 02:09 AM
I might be wrong but does the Heat system mess up other players. That year wade went down the Heat won 15 games. Is it the system that revolves around the star like D.Wade and Lebron. That might be a reason why Bosh isnt doing too great.

Oefarmy2005
11-13-2010, 02:10 AM
This is just two games. I love B-Easy, but for now he is way too incosistant, same goes for Love and the rest of our team. If he finishes the season averaging over 20 on 50% shooting, I'll label him a stud. Untill than, he is a huge steal for the Wolves, but if he doesn't resign here - then it doesn't matter how good he plays. I always said he is a big SF, ala Melo, and that's exactly what he is.

OA SLAY
11-13-2010, 04:21 AM
Most of you posters are such 8====D riders. All you ever do is listen to how the media portrays and rips players, coaches and teams and the minute things turn around there you are with your mouths wide open. Get real.

IrespectNumber3
11-13-2010, 01:52 PM
Anybody who cares to look at what ive been saying about Beasley for the last 2 years go check my post...But EVERY HEAT FAN knows Beasley can score.

He should be better at scoring each year he plays in the NBA because hes 21, but he was never a bust down here.

Spoelstra doesn't know how to use him.

Oefarmy2005
11-13-2010, 04:47 PM
I think that everyone, not just Heat fans, knew that he has the potential to be a great scorer. The difference between the Heat and the Wolves, is that here he is the #1 goto scorer on most nights and that alows him to take more shots. But lets be clear, I watched him many time while he played for Miami, since I absolutely wanted the Wolves to get him back in '08, and the effort level is what separates the Wolves Beasley from the Heat Beasley. He tries harder on D and is willing to pass the ball up when he can't buy a bucket. He was put in a leadership role on the Wolves, since the team is so young, and that's why I think he is finding more sucess here. I definitely need to see some more of those types of games from him since he really undewhelmed me during the preaseason. Time will tell, but he is off to a pretty good start.

Hunter48MVP
11-13-2010, 04:53 PM
Beasley is a BEAST!

footballer2369
11-13-2010, 04:56 PM
He was always so underrated... The bust talk was absurd...

He's not magnificently different, he's just getting showcased.

He will be a great player... I've always said that... That said, him leaving was the best move for the HEAT organization and for him... I'm glad he's getting his chance now, though. My favorite player in the league (well, he or Dorell)...

Sir Buckets
11-13-2010, 05:19 PM
Im happy for Beasley and i think most Heat fans are. He was cheered when he returned to play aganist Miami. Anything else you want to hate us on?http://www.nba.com/playerfile/paul_millsap/

And good for Beasley :clap: The media was too harsh on him for his "antics" (weed, lack of maturity, etc.) News ****ing flash: he's barely 20 years old. Sorry he's not Mother Teresa.

Geargo Wallace
11-13-2010, 05:23 PM
just remember ppl that his 35 point game came against the best defensive and rebounding team in the NBA, the NY Knicks

Corey
11-13-2010, 05:24 PM
just remember ppl that his 35 point game came against the best defensive and rebounding team in the NBA, the NY Knicks

Just out of curiosity...


Was Gallo guarding him?

Hawkeye15
11-13-2010, 05:30 PM
Just out of curiosity...


Was Gallo guarding him?

Chandler was on him most the game

HouRealCoach
11-13-2010, 05:37 PM
The same thing that happened to Beasley in Miami wouldve happened to Durant if he was drafted to Portland

el_primo_nano
11-13-2010, 06:05 PM
Damn they are tight. in theory he was replaced by Bosh.:facepalm:

Mplsman
11-13-2010, 06:33 PM
B Easy and K Love for years to come! They're both only 22.

DeyAce
11-13-2010, 07:12 PM
he is being used correctly as well. The Wolves don't stick him in a corner and make him watch Wade.

Definently this.

jimbobjarree
11-13-2010, 08:02 PM
his terrible hair cancels out his talent though

ilovemyangel
11-13-2010, 08:15 PM
I actually think that his hair is kinda cool haha. Never really notice Beasley other than knowing that he has never said the wrong thing. He's in a nice groove now offensively, looking for him to prove his critics wrong!

dtmagnet
11-14-2010, 12:01 AM
Watching Daleja try to spin this to seem like the Heat aren't stupid for giving him away is giving me a case of the lulz.

alchemist0123
11-14-2010, 12:20 AM
beasley is beasting, i was pissed when he got traded to wolves since it got rid of the notion of him being included in the cb4 sign and trade. he never looked this good since his k-state days.

violetuniverse
11-14-2010, 12:22 AM
i knew beas would do well. great pickup for minny.

2-15's4-22's
11-14-2010, 12:57 AM
Watching Daleja try to spin this to seem like the Heat aren't stupid for giving him away is giving me a case of the lulz.

um the result of them getting rid of him is so that they could get bosh wade and LBJ and they did so it wasnt really for nothing unless your implying that they should have kept beasley and gotten james which would leave them with a 6'1 pg 6'4 sg, 6'8 sf ,6'8 pf, and 6'9 c not to mention james probably would not have came down here ......

with that said im glad b easy got traded because he is getting to be the number 1 option so now he can get his and relax not have to worry about getting bench if he does not get that rebound or misses that shot of lets his man get by him

Russollini
11-14-2010, 01:39 AM
I might be wrong but does the Heat system mess up other players. That year wade went down the Heat won 15 games. Is it the system that revolves around the star like D.Wade and Lebron. That might be a reason why Bosh isnt doing too great.

We have a history of screwing up young talent, not using it, or burning them out. We like stars, and bigs. Riles does not like to deal with development. Now days the biggest issue is coaching and the lack of Offensive play calling.

Jenceman
11-14-2010, 03:17 AM
his terrible hair cancels out his talent though

*cough*Deron Williams*cough*

Sir Buckets
11-14-2010, 03:40 AM
*cough*Deron Williams*cough*He said hair, not tattoos.

I'll be here all week.

Kutchie03
11-14-2010, 03:42 AM
i've always been a wade fan, but i wasnt ever a heat fan until they drafted beasley. he became my second favorite player and still is today.. that being said, the last two games doesn't prove anything. he killed, wait for it, the kings and the knicks. he's still a guy that will usually take 15 shots to get 15 points a night, his shooting percentage is probably around 40% (unless it skyrocketed after the last 2 games) and he's still not a smart player.

jbeezy
11-14-2010, 04:44 AM
Man there is so much talent in the NBA now :drool: I wonder which of all these studs will be Lakers soon. :)

Mplsman
11-14-2010, 05:47 PM
Beasley just had another 25 point game today. Last three games: 42, 35, 25 points.

zambo4president
11-14-2010, 06:19 PM
Another 25 to throw on to the last 2 big games, he is definitely a scoring juggernaut. He was 10 for 16 tonight from the field, and hit a 3.

iliketurtles24
11-14-2010, 06:53 PM
im glad we got him, a steal. Him next to love, he doesnt have to rebound, love will rebound and beasley will score simple

J$mo0th_3o5
11-14-2010, 08:46 PM
Be easy Mike Beasley. Kid is a stud! Lets hope he keeps it up.

Jays Claw
11-14-2010, 08:54 PM
25 points on 10/16 FG's for Beasley. I'll tell you what, he's definitely been more efficient on offense these last few games. Although his defense still sucks.

heattiltheend94
11-14-2010, 09:30 PM
How you get a top 2 draft pick that cheap when he's still so young is beyond me.

We were pretty desperate to cut his 5 million contract in order to get LeBron, Bosh, and Wade. No other team was interested in helping us.

camador22
11-14-2010, 11:20 PM
As a Heat fans I'm thrilled he's doing well and I'll continue to root for him. I've always knew he would be not only an all-star but an eventual top 10 player. I still strongly believe in the next 5 years he will be a Durant type of player. I think most Heat fans are also rooting for him because we know how much he's been through. Beasley never complained about his role in Miami or about the touches he received. He simply could not fit in with the big 3 in Miami that's all. I was pretty amazed at how little the interest around the league was for him. Kahn IMO is a horrible GM but this move saved his butt for a while.

DitchDat
11-15-2010, 11:51 AM
no he's not
just getting more pt and attempts
still no defense, still a soft rebounder

DitchDat
11-15-2010, 11:52 AM
As a Heat fans I'm thrilled he's doing well and I'll continue to root for him. I've always knew he would be not only an all-star but an eventual top 10 player. I still strongly believe in the next 5 years he will be a Durant type of player. I think most Heat fans are also rooting for him because we know how much he's been through. Beasley never complained about his role in Miami or about the touches he received. He simply could not fit in with the big 3 in Miami that's all. I was pretty amazed at how little the interest around the league was for him. Kahn IMO is a horrible GM but this move saved his butt for a while.

Beasley is closer to Ty Thomas than he is close to the Durant. Tantalazing potential, but inconsistent.

beasted86
11-15-2010, 02:00 PM
Yes, Spoelstra stiffled him with a boring predictable offense... but I wouldn't change a thing. We need Bosh a lot more than Beasley, and we need Haslem a lot more than Beasley.


But as far as for Minny, I'm happy for them. You guys still need a natural PG (Rubio?) and more defensive effort from the whole team to make a playoff push, but with Love, Beasley, Johnson, you guys have a couple pieces for the future.

WolvesJagsOs
11-15-2010, 02:37 PM
B-Easy has been amazing for us, really happy with him.

WolvesJagsOs
11-15-2010, 04:47 PM
25 points on 10/16 FG's for Beasley. I'll tell you what, he's definitely been more efficient on offense these last few games. Although his defense still sucks.

I dont agree with that, sure he isnt a great defender, but i dont think he sucks at defense either, the guy is a really vocal guy on defense and helps guys out. He has really became a leader on our team.

VikingsWin2869
11-15-2010, 05:55 PM
no he's not
just getting more pt and attempts
still no defense, still a soft rebounder

He doesn't need to rebound, we have kevin love.. :up:

Mc Lovin
11-15-2010, 06:16 PM
The Heat should have kept Beasley instead of signing Bosh. They would be a better team and they would have had more money to spend on the bench. :laugh:

Bishnoff
11-15-2010, 06:19 PM
I always said that he was wasted in Miami and Spoelstra didn't know how to use him.

WolvesJagsOs
11-15-2010, 06:25 PM
The Heat should have kept Beasley instead of signing Bosh. They would be a better team and they would have had more money to spend on the bench. :laugh:

nah man, Beasley needs to be the #1 scoring option, he would be the 3rd on the Heat if they didnt get Bosh, that wouldnt work for B-Easy.

Mc Lovin
11-15-2010, 06:28 PM
As a Heat fans I'm thrilled he's doing well and I'll continue to root for him. I've always knew he would be not only an all-star but an eventual top 10 player. I still strongly believe in the next 5 years he will be a Durant type of player. I think most Heat fans are also rooting for him because we know how much he's been through. Beasley never complained about his role in Miami or about the touches he received. He simply could not fit in with the big 3 in Miami that's all. I was pretty amazed at how little the interest around the league was for him. Kahn IMO is a horrible GM but this move saved his butt for a while.

He'll never be a Durant type of player. Could he be an All Star a few times? Sure but he doesn't have the skill set to be Kevin Durant.

Hawkeye15
11-15-2010, 06:32 PM
He'll never be a Durant type of player. Could he be an All Star a few times? Sure but he doesn't have the skill set to be Kevin Durant.

nor does he have the length. I am hoping for Melo

WolvesJagsOs
11-15-2010, 06:36 PM
^i could see that honestly dude.

Rivera
11-15-2010, 06:43 PM
nor does he have the length. I am hoping for Melo


ur hoping for melo???

i thought u hated melo??

i know u dislike monta bc of PSD posters and hes a chuker

but i thought u bashed melo to sayin he wasnt a top10 player

i could b wrong tho

WolvesJagsOs
11-15-2010, 06:47 PM
^he did say Melo wasnt a top 10 player i believe, that dosent mean Melo is bad lmao.

Firebug
11-15-2010, 07:00 PM
He has been playing well last several games and I hope it'll be a good streak. I hope he will be a good fit for the Wolves for a time being.

Rivera
11-15-2010, 07:16 PM
^he did say Melo wasnt a top 10 player i believe, that dosent mean Melo is bad lmao.

i love melo i think hes abt # 6 or #7 on my list

i just have to call out hawkeye for someone who he said he wants but necessarily isnt fond of

like i said i could b wrong

WolvesJagsOs
11-15-2010, 07:23 PM
^dude, I dont think he hates melo, but i dont think he thinks he is a top 10 player either. If Beasley became a player like melo (top player, but not top 10 imo), i would be ecstatic.

CowboysKB24
11-15-2010, 09:36 PM
I have to give props and admit when I was in error and I must say I misjudged the young B-Easy. I put him in the category of lifetime underachievers and never-will-be's but he's looking reeeeeeeal nice as of late. A guess the change in scenery was all that was needed.

You never know, I thought being Wade's sidekick was a perfect role for him but in retrospect it was probably just way too much pressure. At any rate its a pleasure to see him doing his thing!

The pressure is off now. He is older and matured. People expect players to come in and be effective immediately. I don't think he'll be an elite player in the league, but he is better than his last few years.

zambo4president
11-15-2010, 10:40 PM
Beez going off again tonight:laugh2: I love having Mike Beez on my fantasy team.

WSU Tony
11-15-2010, 10:52 PM
28 pts on 12/25 shooting (3/3 for 3 pointers) for Beasley tonight.

:laugh:

Hawkeye15
11-15-2010, 10:57 PM
ur hoping for melo???

i thought u hated melo??

i know u dislike monta bc of PSD posters and hes a chuker

but i thought u bashed melo to sayin he wasnt a top10 player

i could b wrong tho

I love Melo. But I also understand that he isn't a top 10 player, and only criticize threads/posts that speak of him as a max deal player, who dominates.

Hawkeye15
11-15-2010, 11:00 PM
i love melo i think hes abt # 6 or #7 on my list

i just have to call out hawkeye for someone who he said he wants but necessarily isnt fond of

like i said i could b wrong

you act as if I called Melo chop liver. He is a great player, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a player who thrives off pace and overall attempts. Would he be the best player on the Wolves? Probably. Does he deserve $17 million a year? Nope

WolvesJagsOs
11-16-2010, 10:52 AM
lol, and Beez does it again, he has consistently got 25+ in the last 4 games. The guy excites me. We should have won that game though, that was stupid, you can tell we are a young team when you blow a 8 point lead with a few minutes remaining.

Firebug
11-16-2010, 10:58 AM
lol, and Beez does it again, he has consistently got 25+ in the last 4 games. The guy excites me. We should have won that game though, that was stupid, you can tell we are a young team when you blow a 8 point lead with a few minutes remaining.

You just answered your own question lol.

WolvesJagsOs
11-16-2010, 11:01 AM
^i never asked a question.....

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 11:15 AM
ur hoping for melo???

i thought u hated melo??

i know u dislike monta bc of PSD posters and hes a chuker

but i thought u bashed melo to sayin he wasnt a top10 player

i could b wrong tho

I don't think Melo is a top 10 player. But I am also realistic enough to know Beasley will probably never be either. I think Melo is an awesome player, and hope Beasley can become what he is to a degree.
Just because I don't think someone who many consider a superstar as such, doesn't mean I hate them, or disrespect their game.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 11:18 AM
i love melo i think hes abt # 6 or #7 on my list

i just have to call out hawkeye for someone who he said he wants but necessarily isnt fond of

like i said i could b wrong

Its not that I wouldn't LOVE to have Melo on the Wolves. But not at the max, which he will get. He aint worth the max

Double_R
11-16-2010, 11:42 AM
He is still garbagio regardless of numbers

Double_R
11-16-2010, 11:54 AM
Its not that I wouldn't LOVE to have Melo on the Wolves. But not at the max, which he will get. He aint worth the max

I don't think you understand what MAX is; it is usually used for the best player on a team, the clear cut number 1 guy and Melo is that. He would be the best player on the team in about 20+ cities. Whether or not you like Melo is irrelevant to his production and what he's worth. Especially since he is coming into or already in his prime and will undoubtedly get paid accordingly. He is definitely a max player. It is foolish to think that there is only a couple Max players in the NBA, because that is just not the case.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 12:11 PM
I don't think you understand what MAX is; it is usually used for the best player on a team, the clear cut number 1 guy and Melo is that. He would be the best player on the team in about 20+ cities. Whether or not you like Melo is irrelevant to his production and what he's worth. Especially since he is coming into or already in his prime and will undoubtedly get paid accordingly. He is definitely a max player. It is foolish to think that there is only a couple Max players in the NBA, because that is just not the case.

I understand what a max is. its the maximum allowed salary a player can make in regards to his tenure. That is the actual definition.
Now, in regards to how it should be used. There are really only a handful of players, and I mean around 5, who deserve a max contract. A deal that big can hamstring teams if given to the wrong players. Melo would be one of these players. He is not a top 10 player, and isn't capable of carrying a team on his back, so money needs to be set aside for another top player, and plenty of role players.
Now, in reality, a lot of owners/GM's feel pressure to secure a top player, so they overpay. Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, and Rudy Gay are great examples from this summer. And Carmelo Anthony will be next summer.

Gibby23
11-16-2010, 12:45 PM
I don't think you understand what MAX is; it is usually used for the best player on a team, the clear cut number 1 guy and Melo is that. He would be the best player on the team in about 20+ cities. Whether or not you like Melo is irrelevant to his production and what he's worth. Especially since he is coming into or already in his prime and will undoubtedly get paid accordingly. He is definitely a max player. It is foolish to think that there is only a couple Max players in the NBA, because that is just not the case.

It will be the case after the new CBA.

Mile High Champ
11-16-2010, 12:49 PM
He certainly has played well to start the season but his scoring numbers are because he plays on a bad team. I like what the T-Wolves have in terms of youth and talent for the future but that team has to have someone to score on any given night and that guy has become Beas. I think he is being given a little too much credit by some of you.

WolvesJagsOs
11-16-2010, 12:57 PM
He is still garbagio regardless of numbers

lol, watch some games before you hate on a guy.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 12:57 PM
He certainly has played well to start the season but his scoring numbers are because he plays on a bad team. I like what the T-Wolves have in terms of youth and talent for the future but that team has to have someone to score on any given night and that guy has become Beas. I think he is being given a little too much credit by some of you.

his efficiency has been WAY better so far though. That is all I care about.

Gibby23
11-16-2010, 12:59 PM
He certainly has played well to start the season but his scoring numbers are because he plays on a bad team. I like what the T-Wolves have in terms of youth and talent for the future but that team has to have someone to score on any given night and that guy has become Beas. I think he is being given a little too much credit by some of you.

Isn't that the same deal with Raptor fans and Andrea Bargnani? He scores alot on a bad team and plays the C position and they tend to look past his poor rebounding.

WolvesJagsOs
11-16-2010, 01:03 PM
his efficiency has been WAY better so far though. That is all I care about.

This. Dude, watch some of his games, and to the degree of "he is putting up good numbers on a bad team", what does that matter when his efficiency is way up. Ive never understood why people say that especially with his effieciency.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 01:06 PM
"Putting up good numbers on a bad team" is such a common myth. You may get more PER GAME numbers from that scenario, but its more difficult to be an efficient player/scorer on a bad team actually.

So many statements out there that are misconceptions.

WolvesJagsOs
11-16-2010, 01:06 PM
^agreed, people put way to much into that.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 01:17 PM
^agreed, people put way to much into that.

its just flat out wrong in most cases. The statement, "Defense wins championships" is another example. Anytime you make absolute statements regarding sports, they are basically false.

So you are telling me, that when surrounded by crap, you have better numbers when you have nobody to finish your assists, nobody to give you a solid pass causing your turnover rate to go up, and the very fact that you are indeed one of the few scorers now causes opposing defenses to key in on you more than they would if you had talent, all add up to getting good numbers on bad teams?

False

beasted86
11-16-2010, 01:36 PM
He is still garbagio regardless of numbers

Garbagio?

Um Beasley isn't exactly a superstar or all-star material yet, but he is a talented player in this league. Why hate on the kid? I mean it's not like he's been getting a whole bunch of hype up until now.

TopsyTurvy
11-16-2010, 01:51 PM
Just warning that the season so far is a very small sample size and this has been the best stretch of games in Beasley's career so far.

The most telling statistic isn't his efficiency, but his usage. He's getting the ball nearly every play now compared to when he was slowly being phased out of Miami's offense and rotation.

zB_#85
11-16-2010, 01:53 PM
I would like to see him embrace the 3 position. I know he's naturally a 4, but with Love there he's not going to be a 4. I hope he realizes that him and Love can be a very nice duo, and really work on his conditioning, quickness, etc to improve himself as a 3- if so, look out!

Ethix11
11-16-2010, 02:16 PM
I called it from the moment Beasley was traded. He was going to be Minny's go to guy. He was that good and Miami knew it. No surprise here.

iliketurtles24
11-16-2010, 02:20 PM
beast

Sixerlover
11-16-2010, 02:54 PM
its just flat out wrong in most cases. The statement, "Defense wins championships" is another example. Anytime you make absolute statements regarding sports, they are basically false.

So you are telling me, that when surrounded by crap, you have better numbers when you have nobody to finish your assists, nobody to give you a solid pass causing your turnover rate to go up, and the very fact that you are indeed one of the few scorers now causes opposing defenses to key in on you more than they would if you had talent, all add up to getting good numbers on bad teams?

False

Agreed

Double_R
11-16-2010, 03:09 PM
lol, watch some games before you hate on a guy.

It's easy to put up numbers on bad teams, it's not a theory, it's a fact. When people say his shooting % and whatever else; none of that matters, when you're limited with your size and skill set and have and attitude like his. Bottom line is that this guy is mediocre and when you say watch some games before I hate, well that is absolutely hilarious because I happen to live in Miami and have watched many many games that dude has played in. Also I used to see him out all the time, after games, nights when he had games the next day, smoking blunts in VIP. I might have overstated what he is, but when people start to jump on his wagon I find it funny because he is scoring the vast majority of his points with mid-range jumpers and getting almost no buckets in the paint. He's shooting almost 43 percent from 16-to-23 feet, a number only sustainable by the best shooters in the league. Take this data with Beasley's lack of 3-pointers, blocks and assists and whatever else he doesn't do and and this conversation will be over by January. Not to mention that he is an undsersized PF. He is listed at 6-10, but is barely 6-8, not really sure why he is listed at that. I mean at the draft he measured 6-foot-7 without shoes and 6-foot-8 1/4 with shoes on. So that is a little strange. This is all a mirage...

PurpleJesus
11-16-2010, 03:23 PM
It's easy to put up numbers on bad teams, it's not a theory, it's a fact. When people say his shooting % and whatever else; none of that matters, when you're limited with your size and skill set and have and attitude like his. Bottom line is that this guy is mediocre and when you say watch some games before I hate, well that is absolutely hilarious because I happen to live in Miami and have watched many many games that dude has played in. Also I used to see him out all the time, after games, nights when he had games the next day, smoking blunts in VIP. I might have overstated what he is, but when people start to jump on his wagon I find it funny because he is scoring the vast majority of his points with mid-range jumpers and getting almost no buckets in the paint. He's shooting almost 43 percent from 16-to-23 feet, a number only sustainable by the best shooters in the league. Take this data with Beasley's lack of 3-pointers, blocks and assists and whatever else he doesn't do and and this conversation will be over by January. Not to mention that he is an undsersized PF. He is listed at 6-10, but is barely 6-8, not really sure why he is listed at that. I mean at the draft he measured 6-foot-7 without shoes and 6-foot-8 1/4 with shoes on. So that is a little strange. This is all a mirage...

whats wrong with being a good mid range scorer?

Beasley is averaging 1 made 3 pointer a game right now and shooting 50% from 3 land.

Beasley switched positions, he is now a SF, definetly not undersized there.

You have an argument that Beasley is not a good player because he is a good mid range scorer, and because he cant shoot 3's...which over 11 games this season, he has shown he can do, you also argue that he is undersized for a position he doesnt play. Your argument = ilegitimate

Double_R
11-16-2010, 03:25 PM
its just flat out wrong in most cases. The statement, "Defense wins championships" is another example. Anytime you make absolute statements regarding sports, they are basically false.

So you are telling me, that when surrounded by crap, you have better numbers when you have nobody to finish your assists, nobody to give you a solid pass causing your turnover rate to go up, and the very fact that you are indeed one of the few scorers now causes opposing defenses to key in on you more than they would if you had talent, all add up to getting good numbers on bad teams?

False

You are actually wrong and full of misconceptions on what typically happens on bad teams. Isn't this your same argument against Monta Ellis and AI, but now you are using it in the opposite manner trying to back up players that put up big numbers on bad teams. It's not a myth; look at history, players that usually put up bigger numbers are typically on bad teams(Kobe had his best year when Smush was his pg and Brain Grant was his center). All of your premises are wrong; you are acting like these players are playing with a bunch of rejects or something. What you are stating doesn't make sense, "there is nobody to pass to, etc." that is ridiculous. What do you think that the opposing teams are like "man we don't even have to guard these guys, we will just guard Beasley" that is laughable. By the way, you need to get over shooting %, it's not everything; there are plenty of outside variables that can affect shooting. Yea typically the best shooters will continually have high shooting percentage, but that doesn't mean that I want Kyle Korver taking the last shot down by 3; I will still go with Kobe and his 10+ % less career average. So yea when a guy plays on a bad team, there are more chances to put up numbers than on a good team.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 03:25 PM
It's easy to put up numbers on bad teams, it's not a theory, it's a fact. When people say his shooting % and whatever else; none of that matters, when you're limited with your size and skill set and have and attitude like his. Bottom line is that this guy is mediocre and when you say watch some games before I hate, well that is absolutely hilarious because I happen to live in Miami and have watched many many games that dude has played in. Also I used to see him out all the time, after games, nights when he had games the next day, smoking blunts in VIP. I might have overstated what he is, but when people start to jump on his wagon I find it funny because he is scoring the vast majority of his points with mid-range jumpers and getting almost no buckets in the paint. He's shooting almost 43 percent from 16-to-23 feet, a number only sustainable by the best shooters in the league. Take this data with Beasley's lack of 3-pointers, blocks and assists and whatever else he doesn't do and and this conversation will be over by January. Not to mention that he is an undsersized PF. He is listed at 6-10, but is barely 6-8, not really sure why he is listed at that. I mean at the draft he measured 6-foot-7 without shoes and 6-foot-8 1/4 with shoes on. So that is a little strange. This is all a mirage...


quite the opposite actually.

Now, regarding your paragraph. Do you think there was a reason he was taken #2 overall? Do you think there is a reason he has the best statistical season of all time for a college freshman? Do you think there is a reason for fans to think he has the potential to be one of the better scorers in the NBA when he is only 21?

You are basically reading his physical scouting report off for everyone. Will he sustain his percentage on long 2's? Nope. Because he will start getting crowded now. And you can believe his conversions in the paint will increase, and his free throw percentage will head back towards his mean, which is much higher.

I have been a critic of his play and actions over the past two years. But should a 20 year old thrown millions of dollars in south beach not be given a chance to mature? Should we not expect him to improve, as any 19, then 20, then 21 year old usually does?

I don't think its a mirage in the slightest. I have no clue how good he will get. But he is going to be a legit scorer in the NBA.

WolvesJagsOs
11-16-2010, 03:28 PM
It's easy to put up numbers on bad teams, it's not a theory, it's a fact. When people say his shooting % and whatever else; none of that matters, when you're limited with your size and skill set and have and attitude like his. Bottom line is that this guy is mediocre and when you say watch some games before I hate, well that is absolutely hilarious because I happen to live in Miami and have watched many many games that dude has played in. Also I used to see him out all the time, after games, nights when he had games the next day, smoking blunts in VIP. I might have overstated what he is, but when people start to jump on his wagon I find it funny because he is scoring the vast majority of his points with mid-range jumpers and getting almost no buckets in the paint. He's shooting almost 43 percent from 16-to-23 feet, a number only sustainable by the best shooters in the league. Take this data with Beasley's lack of 3-pointers, blocks and assists and whatever else he doesn't do and and this conversation will be over by January. Not to mention that he is an undsersized PF. He is listed at 6-10, but is barely 6-8, not really sure why he is listed at that. I mean at the draft he measured 6-foot-7 without shoes and 6-foot-8 1/4 with shoes on. So that is a little strange. This is all a mirage...

And he was in his 19-20 year old days, and dont tell me that not many college guys dont smoke weed. And also, He is now more mature, and needed a better scenery, and is now a parent, he dont do that stuff no more. And also, he plays the 3, they arent in the paint often. Just by seeing what ur saying you dont know much about him. Whats so bad about shootng 43% from the field and 50%+ from 3 point range.

WolvesJagsOs
11-16-2010, 03:29 PM
quite the opposite actually.

Now, regarding your paragraph. Do you think there was a reason he was taken #2 overall? Do you think there is a reason he has the best statistical season of all time for a college freshman? Do you think there is a reason for fans to think he has the potential to be one of the better scorers in the NBA when he is only 21?

You are basically reading his physical scouting report off for everyone. Will he sustain his percentage on long 2's? Nope. Because he will start getting crowded now. And you can believe his conversions in the paint will increase, and his free throw percentage will head back towards his mean, which is much higher.

I have been a critic of his play and actions over the past two years. But should a 20 year old thrown millions of dollars in south beach not be given a chance to mature? Should we not expect him to improve, as any 19, then 20, then 21 year old usually does?

I don't think its a mirage in the slightest. I have no clue how good he will get. But he is going to be a legit scorer in the NBA.

this, people see what other people say and basically say teh same thing all the time, even when they arent knowledgable about the subject.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 03:30 PM
You are actually wrong and full of misconceptions on what typically happens on bad teams. Isn't this your same argument against Monta Ellis and AI, but now you are using it in the opposite manner trying to back up players that put up big numbers on bad teams. It's not a myth; look at history, players that usually put up bigger numbers are typically on bad teams(Kobe had his best year when Smush was his pg and Brain Grant was his center). All of your premises are wrong; you are acting like these players are playing with a bunch of rejects or something. What you are stating doesn't make sense, "there is nobody to pass to, etc." that is ridiculous. What do you think that the opposing teams are like "man we don't even have to guard these guys, we will just guard Beasley" that is laughable. By the way, you need to get over shooting %, it's not everything; there are plenty of outside variables that can affect shooting. Yea typically the best shooters will continually have high shooting percentage, but that doesn't mean that I want Kyle Korver taking the last shot down by 3; I will still go with Kobe and his 10+ % less career average. So yea when a guy plays on a bad team, there are more chances to put up numbers than on a good team.

no, its a misconception that players put up better numbers playing for bad teams.
Ellis and AI? What do they have to do with this? Ellis was a terribly inefficient scorer the past two seasons, and AI is the pinnacle of the term "chucker". So? What does that have to do with Beasley?


Do you really want to discuss statistical variables, in relation to basketball with me? I would be happy to do so.

The rest of your post is you venting, I could care less to address it

Double_R
11-16-2010, 03:30 PM
whats wrong with being a good mid range scorer?

Beasley is averaging 1 made 3 pointer a game right now and shooting 50% from 3 land.

Beasley switched positions, he is now a SF, definetly not undersized there.

You have an argument that Beasley is not a good player because he is a good mid range scorer, and because he cant shoot 3's...which over 11 games this season, he has shown he can do, you also argue that he is undersized for a position he doesnt play. Your argument = ilegitimate

I'm not saying that Beasley can't be a decent player, but you are talking about 11 games, when I watched him for 160. Look up what he did last year and the year before, my sample size is bigger than your 11. However, I will admit that he is still very young and definitely could be improving, but I can't buy this guy after 11 games or even 50. BTW, he is listed at 6-10 and as Minnesota's PF on their website, so take that up with them.

PurpleJesus
11-16-2010, 03:32 PM
I'm not saying that Beasley can't be a decent player, but you are talking about 11 games, when I watched him for 160. Look up what he did last year and the year before, my sample size is bigger than your 11. However, I will admit that he is still very young and definitely could be improving, but I can't buy this guy after 11 games or even 50. BTW, he is listed at 6-10 and as Minnesota's PF on their website, so take that up with them.

its 11 games in new scenery where the chains are taken off of him. He is not restricted by Wade anymore, he has been given the opportunity to be minnesotas guy, and he has soared with it

If you claim to be knowledgeable on the subject, then you should know beasley plays the 3, you dont need a website to tell you what position he plays.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 03:33 PM
I'm not saying that Beasley can't be a decent player, but you are talking about 11 games, when I watched him for 160. Look up what he did last year and the year before, my sample size is bigger than your 11. However, I will admit that he is still very young and definitely could be improving, but I can't buy this guy after 11 games or even 50. BTW, he is listed at 6-10 and as Minnesota's PF on their website, so take that up with them.

then there we have it. You refuse to judge from this season. Fair enough. Please state that when criticizing a player though, it makes everyone's life easier.
And yes, he underachieved the first two seasons he was in the NBA. I was all over him.
Players are listed as they were listed in college. Everyone knows Beasley is about 6'8"

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 03:34 PM
Beasley plays SF. He also reported in far better condition, and his shot looks unreal so far. I am expecting a slight regression over the year, but I would guess he ends up over 20 a game on his career best TS%.

Double_R
11-16-2010, 03:35 PM
no, its a misconception that players put up better numbers playing for bad teams.
Ellis and AI? What do they have to do with this? Ellis was a terribly inefficient scorer the past two seasons, and AI is the pinnacle of the term "chucker". So? What does that have to do with Beasley?


Do you really want to discuss statistical variables, in relation to basketball with me? I would be happy to do so.

The rest of your post is you venting, I could care less to address it

Your entire basis for whether a player is good or not is based on their shooting %. My point is what is Beasley doing that is making his team better, other than shooting a decent fg%?

The rest of my post wasn't ranting, it was disproving your biased and meretricious ideas about what happens on bad teams.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 03:39 PM
Your entire basis for whether a player is good or not is based on their shooting %. My point is what is Beasley doing that is making his team better, other than shooting a decent fg%?

The rest of my post wasn't ranting, it was disproving your biased and meretricious ideas about what happens on bad teams.

where on earth did you get that from?
And you haven't disproved anything.

PurpleJesus
11-16-2010, 03:40 PM
Your entire basis for whether a player is good or not is based on their shooting %. My point is what is Beasley doing that is making his team better, other than shooting a decent fg%?

The rest of my post wasn't ranting, it was disproving your biased and meretricious ideas about what happens on bad teams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFSYHonZo_M

I could go on to tell you how much of a vocal leader he has become here, but you already said that you are not counting this season to his credit. But Beasley has definitely made this team better with his leadership

Double_R
11-16-2010, 03:47 PM
where on earth did you get that from?
And you haven't disproved anything.

Every post I have ever seen where you are arguing against a player, your main argument is that he has a bad ts% or he is a "chucker", etc. In fact, I have disproved your idea of it being a myth that players on bad teams don't put up better numbers. In reality, that is false and your reasons why were all based on wild misconceptions. Like I stated before, if you went through a pool of good players, most of them had their best years on the their worst teams. I'm not saying that being on a good team will necessarily hurt your numbers; a lot of times it will though, but their are also a lot of dependent variables that can influence your stats(your position, what the other stars positions are, coach, etc)

Double_R
11-16-2010, 03:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFSYHonZo_M

I could go on to tell you how much of a vocal leader he has become here, but you already said that you are not counting this season to his credit. But Beasley has definitely made this team better with his leadership

Finally an answer, thank you... Ok, maybe I came out strong on voicing my opinion against him and it still is, but this is the type of stuff that I would never expect from a personality like his, so maybe he is changing. I am still gonna go on the opinion that this is only 11 games and his team isn't winning despite having a decent cast, but I also am a Raiders fan and no that culture doesn't change over night so... Good luck to the the TWolves this year, I'm over this convo.

Madtown22
11-16-2010, 04:05 PM
Not sure if this has been shared? Link..... I think Beas has more confidence here, or an attitude of being a primary scorer. He couldn't do that in Miami.

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2010/11/16/heat-feeling-traders-remorse-over-beasley/?eref=sihp

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 04:10 PM
Every post I have ever seen where you are arguing against a player, your main argument is that he has a bad ts% or he is a "chucker", etc. In fact, I have disproved your idea of it being a myth that players on bad teams don't put up better numbers. In reality, that is false and your reasons why were all based on wild misconceptions. Like I stated before, if you went through a pool of good players, most of them had their best years on the their worst teams. I'm not saying that being on a good team will necessarily hurt your numbers; a lot of times it will though, but their are also a lot of dependent variables that can influence your stats(your position, what the other stars positions are, coach, etc)

read closer. That is totally false.

And you haven't disproved anything dude. You are falling into the misconception.
Kobe Bryant was your example? A player who was already a top 4 player before he had his peak? Nice try

Take another Laker. Explain why Gasol is so much better on a team that wins more than his previous team.

If you are referring per game totals, then you are partially correct. More talent around a player usually brings down their PPG, RPG, etc. But I don't really care about per game numbers, nor does anyone who understands how to evaluate basketball statistics. Playing with better surroundings usually increases your positive percentages in assists, turnovers, defensive ratings, win shares, etc.

Its a common misconception that playing on a bad team inflates your numbers. If you are speaking of role players, then you are absolutely correct. If you are speaking of bona fide starters, you are incorrect.

PurpleJesus
11-16-2010, 04:10 PM
Finally an answer, thank you... Ok, maybe I came out strong on voicing my opinion against him and it still is, but this is the type of stuff that I would never expect from a personality like his, so maybe he is changing. I am still gonna go on the opinion that this is only 11 games and his team isn't winning despite having a decent cast, but I also am a Raiders fan and no that culture doesn't change over night so... Good luck to the the TWolves this year, I'm over this convo.

His leadership has been the big suprise in minnesota this year...everyone knew he had a lot of talent and potential, but no one expected him to have this great of a mentality on the court. He is constantly, and i really do mean constantly talking to teammates...if someone does something wrong, he lets them know as shown in the previously posted video. There was another incident in just last nights game where Corey Brewer beat about 3 bobcats to the basket on a fast break and Brewer fell hard, Brewer was laying there sulking that a foul wasnt called as the cats were inbounding the ball...Beasley yelled get up Brew, brewer got up and back on D...those are just a couple examples, but he does stuff like that every game...and its just perfect for this young team where they previously hadnt had a vocal leader, and they would do things you expect young players to do, such as not getting back on D, or sulking over a non-call and not getting in a play

If Beasleys numbers or TS% go down, but Beasley stays vocal all season, I will definitely take that. The Question has never been his skill or talent, its been his maturity, so if he can keep this leadership role throught the season and stay level headed on a losing team, I will know that he will be a big time player in this league.

La11
11-16-2010, 04:14 PM
How you get a top 2 draft pick that cheap when he's still so young is beyond me.

when you know your going to get Lebron James!!

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 04:15 PM
His leadership has been the big suprise in minnesota this year...everyone knew he had a lot of talent and potential, but no one expected him to have this great of a mentality on the court. He is constantly, and i really do mean constantly talking to teammates...if someone does something wrong, he lets them know as shown in the previously posted video. There was another incident in just last nights game where Corey Brewer beat about 3 bobcats to the basket on a fast break and Brewer fell hard, Brewer was laying there sulking that a foul wasnt called as the cats were inbounding the ball...Beasley yelled get up Brew, brewer got up and back on D...those are just a couple examples, but he does stuff like that every game.

If Beasleys numbers or TS% go down, but Beasley stays vocal all season, I will definitely take that. The Question has never been his skill or talent, its been his maturity, so if he can keep this leadership role throught the season and stay level headed on a losing team, I will know that he will be a big time player in this league.

He is shooting a career high TS%, despite a career low FT%. As his long 2's fall a bit in rate, his overall TS% will stay up, because he will start hitting free throws.
And really, once he gets his rebounding numbers moving back up, his overall offensive rating will get near 106-110. So I really don't see a regression from Beasley happening this season. I watched tons of Heat games, and this is a totally different player out there.

PurpleJesus
11-16-2010, 04:41 PM
He is shooting a career high TS%, despite a career low FT%. As his long 2's fall a bit in rate, his overall TS% will stay up, because he will start hitting free throws.
And really, once he gets his rebounding numbers moving back up, his overall offensive rating will get near 106-110. So I really don't see a regression from Beasley happening this season. I watched tons of Heat games, and this is a totally different player out there.

I agree with you, I just wanted to highlight his vocal leadership this year. I dont expect his numbers to regress much, but if they do, and he stays vocal all year, I will take it, because I already know the talent is there, but the biggest question is still maturity.

WolvesJagsOs
11-16-2010, 05:28 PM
I'm not saying that Beasley can't be a decent player, but you are talking about 11 games, when I watched him for 160. Look up what he did last year and the year before, my sample size is bigger than your 11. However, I will admit that he is still very young and definitely could be improving, but I can't buy this guy after 11 games or even 50. BTW, he is listed at 6-10 and as Minnesota's PF on their website, so take that up with them.

dude, that was when he was on the Heat, he needs to be the #1 option, which he is here. Wade was the obvious #1 option in Miami.

WolvesJagsOs
11-16-2010, 05:30 PM
Finally an answer, thank you... Ok, maybe I came out strong on voicing my opinion against him and it still is, but this is the type of stuff that I would never expect from a personality like his, so maybe he is changing. I am still gonna go on the opinion that this is only 11 games and his team isn't winning despite having a decent cast, but I also am a Raiders fan and no that culture doesn't change over night so... Good luck to the the TWolves this year, I'm over this convo.

its cool, its ur opinion, but he has def changed, you need to understand how different it is here than it was in Miami, a young 19 year old kid gets paid a bunch and lives in South Beach, to a 21 year old that is one of the veterans on this club that goes to Minnesota, thats a huge change.

h2r09
11-16-2010, 05:36 PM
im sorry, but nothing he is doing is incredibly impressive. he isnt a team player. he is chucking up like 25-30 shots in his most recent run. that doesnt impress me if you chuck up that many shots. he also isnt rebounding at all like he should for a 6'9 guy.

Gibby23
11-16-2010, 05:40 PM
im sorry, but nothing he is doing is incredibly impressive. he isnt a team player. he is chucking up like 25-30 shots in his most recent run. that doesnt impress me if you chuck up that many shots. he also isnt rebounding at all like he should for a 6'9 guy.

He is shooting at like 48% and 50% from 3 after a slow start. He get like 5 or 6 rebounds, about as much as Bosh, but he has a guy that is the NBA's rebounding leader next to him. He also plays SF not PF, so 5 or 6 reboungs id ok for a SF.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 05:41 PM
im sorry, but nothing he is doing is incredibly impressive. he isnt a team player. he is chucking up like 25-30 shots in his most recent run. that doesnt impress me if you chuck up that many shots. he also isnt rebounding at all like he should for a 6'9 guy.

In the Wolves last 5 games (games they have played well in), he is scoring 29.4 ppg, shooting 52.5% from the field, with 5 boards and 2.6 assists. He plays SF, with Love next to him. Not a lot of rebounds available.
147 points on 116 shots is fairly impressive to me

Tony_Starks
11-16-2010, 07:27 PM
In the Wolves last 5 games (games they have played well in), he is scoring 29.4 ppg, shooting 52.5% from the field, with 5 boards and 2.6 assists. He plays SF, with Love next to him. Not a lot of rebounds available.
147 points on 116 shots is fairly impressive to me


dog-gone straight it is!

Not to have a TWolves love affair or anything but I watched them the other night and I must very begrudgingly admit that Darko is actually a decent passer. Still overpaid buddy, but hey who knew?

Hawkeye15
11-16-2010, 09:43 PM
dog-gone straight it is!

Not to have a TWolves love affair or anything but I watched them the other night and I must very begrudgingly admit that Darko is actually a decent passer. Still overpaid buddy, but hey who knew?

I nearly crapped myself when he hit his first 3 shots. 13-12-4 last night.
His offense is horrendous. Defense is very good.
Quite honestly, 80% of the 7 footers in the NBA are overpaid. That is just the way it is dude.

WolvesJagsOs
11-17-2010, 04:43 PM
^yeah, he is a very good defender, solid at passing.

Chronz
11-17-2010, 06:29 PM
Hes on the worst team in the league and getting all the touches he needs to grow. There are no excuses to not improve, and considering his youth its fair to expect it of him. Its not as if hes made some tremendous leap, his PER is only slightly improved upon his rookie year despite the extra usage so as a whole he hasnt been that different. I understand hes hit a nice stretch but we've all followed the game long enough to know its meaningless at this point. We do know that he wont continue shooting at this rate, and should he in turn start attacking the rim and no settle back into a chucking role he could prove out better than most imagined, but he needs to cut the turnovers if thats to be possible, its already high and people are going to "start crowding" him, thats pretty bad. If he meets league average in efficiency this year it will be a good start towards becoming a respectable player. As of now hes not that special

jp611
11-17-2010, 07:50 PM
hes better than bosh

Hawkeye15
11-17-2010, 08:53 PM
Hes on the worst team in the league and getting all the touches he needs to grow. There are no excuses to not improve, and considering his youth its fair to expect it of him. Its not as if hes made some tremendous leap, his PER is only slightly improved upon his rookie year despite the extra usage so as a whole he hasnt been that different. I understand hes hit a nice stretch but we've all followed the game long enough to know its meaningless at this point. We do know that he wont continue shooting at this rate, and should he in turn start attacking the rim and no settle back into a chucking role he could prove out better than most imagined, but he needs to cut the turnovers if thats to be possible, its already high and people are going to "start crowding" him, thats pretty bad. If he meets league average in efficiency this year it will be a good start towards becoming a respectable player. As of now hes not that special

I don't think the Wolves will end up with the worst record in the NBA. No way.
His PER is slightly higher, but I would guess it will end up higher than it is now as his rebounding gets back to the norm, and his free throw % climbs.
He isn't very special yet, but even you realize his scoring potential is there.

Again, as the rebounding numbers climb, and his free throw percentage gets back to normal, his overall offensive rating and PER will climb.

Draco
11-17-2010, 09:05 PM
He's still the same player who excused his poor performance on having to share the ball with DWade and whose off court shenanigans made national news. I don't expect Beasley to be anything special for almost the same reason that I'm not really that excited about the possibility of the Bulls getting Melo. Immature players aren't winners and the NBA isn't the place where I'd predict people have a good chance to mature.

WolvesJagsOs
11-17-2010, 09:08 PM
^he was also 19 and 20 years old dude, he was still at the college age where you do stupid stuff, he is still 21, but he is now a father, and a change of scenery from south beach to Minnesota is quite a change. He is a different guy now.

Draco
11-17-2010, 09:17 PM
^he was also 19 and 20 years old dude, he was still at the college age where you do stupid stuff, he is still 21, but he is now a father, and a change of scenery from south beach to Minnesota is quite a change. He is a different guy now.

It wasn't too long ago when he twittered about feeling like his life was over or some such nonsense. He's not the kind of person I envision being able to contribute significantly to winning a championship.

Chronz
11-17-2010, 10:41 PM
I don't think the Wolves will end up with the worst record in the NBA. No way.
His PER is slightly higher, but I would guess it will end up higher than it is now as his rebounding gets back to the norm, and his free throw % climbs.
He isn't very special yet, but even you realize his scoring potential is there.

Again, as the rebounding numbers climb, and his free throw percentage gets back to normal, his overall offensive rating and PER will climb.

Im just talking in the present tense, TWolves have been the worst team in the league. I dont see his rebounding improving if he they plan on playing him as a 3-man. Theres some debate as to which position he fits best at but his PER should improve from his rookie season, thats not really much of an achievement. Like I said, him reaching league average in efficiency would be a good place to start, thats how low my expectations of him are. If he blows them away then Ill be surprised, as of now, not even a bit impressed.

PurpleJesus
11-17-2010, 11:34 PM
!!!!!!!!!!!bump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!game winning shot

PurpleJesus
11-17-2010, 11:35 PM
33 points, 2-3 3 pointers (someone said he isnt good on 3's? over 50% on the year now) 7 rebs from SF

beasted86
11-17-2010, 11:39 PM
I'm happy for this kid, also good to see some of this scoring is not going in vain. Wolves have won 3 out of last 5... starting from his first break out scoring game of 42 points.

Hawkeye15
11-18-2010, 12:19 AM
Im just talking in the present tense, TWolves have been the worst team in the league. I dont see his rebounding improving if he they plan on playing him as a 3-man. Theres some debate as to which position he fits best at but his PER should improve from his rookie season, thats not really much of an achievement. Like I said, him reaching league average in efficiency would be a good place to start, thats how low my expectations of him are. If he blows them away then Ill be surprised, as of now, not even a bit impressed.

he hasnt deserved to impress you. Watch him play so far this year. He will earn your respect with the small sample size we have to date. 33 and the game winner tonight.

PurpleJesus
11-18-2010, 12:20 AM
I'm happy for this kid, also good to see some of this scoring is not going in vain. Wolves have won 3 out of last 5... starting from his first break out scoring game of 42 points.

his scoring definitely isnt going to waste, but i want to keep emphasizing his leadership that he has taken on here. He acts like a veteran here, its sick. People have rightfully questioned his maturity, he has been nothing but a leader here, he is constantly talking on the floor, and getting teammates to rally around him.

3 things have made him a leader in mn so far, his play, his non-stop vocals on the floor, and now, a game winning shot that the coaching staff game him all the confidence in the world to take. I will keep saying this until people understand what he has become in mn...everyone always knew he had the talent, maturity was his biggest concern, through 12 games this season, he has definetly matured.

StayOutOfTrees
11-18-2010, 12:23 AM
To some people, they will have in their mind for a while that Beasley is a bust (which he never was), but obviously they haven't been watching him play lately. Eventually they will get it.

beasted86
11-18-2010, 12:40 AM
Even in Miami Beasley wasn't a bust. He has always had NBA level talent, and top 10 comparitive talent in his draft class.

HuRRiCaNeS324
11-18-2010, 12:43 AM
All of us Heat fans knew this would happen. Seeing him every game you can just tell hes was waiting to explode but couldnt because he didnt have enough touches. Im happy for him and the T Wolves (who got him for a second round pick lol)

Mplsman
11-18-2010, 12:55 AM
Beastley

jackdawson
11-18-2010, 12:56 AM
Most of us, if not all, Heat fans knew he was a special talent but just wasn't on the right system. Whatever Beasley is doing right now I am pretty sure none of the Heat fans is surprised who watched him night in and night out like I did. And all the Heat fans are happy for him now.

I want to see those people who said he was a bust. Please, MAN UP!

(Also @Hawkeye: We had pretty lengthy debate about Beasley earlier this year. Guess what, I am having the laugh now. I know you are happy to have him on your team as well :))

iCOOKiE MONSTER
11-18-2010, 12:58 AM
Mike Beastly and Kevin Love are a great 1-2 punch

justinnum1
11-18-2010, 01:12 AM
I love watching beasley play. He's got a little swag, and his J is looking smoother than ever.

Chronz
11-18-2010, 01:21 AM
he hasnt deserved to impress you. Watch him play so far this year. He will earn your respect with the small sample size we have to date. 33 and the game winner tonight.
Its the best stretch of his career, thats all the respect he deserves at this point. I dont put much stock in small sample sizes

ElMarroAfamado
11-18-2010, 03:09 AM
and
iiiits the CLippers...

StayOutOfTrees
11-18-2010, 03:14 AM
Its the best stretch of his career, thats all the respect he deserves at this point. I dont put much stock in small sample sizes

Yeah, just a little 6 game fluke now, sure he we be back down to 14 points a game here soon, lmao. You even watch nba games? There are just all those guys that start averaging 33 points per game over 6 games and then just disappear into mediocrity when young. Name me a few, would love to hear about your infinite NBA wisdom. Even Kevin Durant would love to hear this one, he knew Beasley would have a break out year with minutes and touches. Don't believe me, look it up.

PurpleJesus
11-18-2010, 10:13 AM
and
iiiits the CLippers...

and, this thread was created a week ago. wolves played the clippers last night.

jeter4president
11-18-2010, 10:57 AM
Most of us, if not all, Heat fans knew he was a special talent but just wasn't on the right system. Whatever Beasley is doing right now I am pretty sure none of the Heat fans is surprised who watched him night in and night out like I did. And all the Heat fans are happy for him now.

I want to see those people who said he was a bust. Please, MAN UP!

(Also @Hawkeye: We had pretty lengthy debate about Beasley earlier this year. Guess what, I am having the laugh now. I know you are happy to have him on your team as well :))

ur the man bro

Chronz
11-18-2010, 12:24 PM
Yeah, just a little 6 game fluke now, sure he we be back down to 14 points a game here soon, lmao. You even watch nba games? There are just all those guys that start averaging 33 points per game over 6 games and then just disappear into mediocrity when young. Name me a few, would love to hear about your infinite NBA wisdom. Even Kevin Durant would love to hear this one, he knew Beasley would have a break out year with minutes and touches. Don't believe me, look it up.

I watch more games than you can ever imagine. Your statistical accusations carry no merit as its clear you have no idea of the discussion we're having, heres a clue it has very little to do with superficial averages. Everything to do with the efficiency he has played with. The rate at which hes hitting his jumpshot is unsustainable, I dont need to show you any examples because you should be smart enough to study the game on your own. Players hit peaks and valleys all the time, what matters is the consistency of that level of play. Ill be impressed when he proves more than this being a hot stretch, in other words, I want to see how he responds when teams stop giving him open jumpers or when his shot stops falling, whichever comes first.

Chronz
11-18-2010, 12:26 PM
Most of us, if not all, Heat fans knew he was a special talent but just wasn't on the right system. Whatever Beasley is doing right now I am pretty sure none of the Heat fans is surprised who watched him night in and night out like I did. And all the Heat fans are happy for him now.

I want to see those people who said he was a bust. Please, MAN UP!

(Also @Hawkeye: We had pretty lengthy debate about Beasley earlier this year. Guess what, I am having the laugh now. I know you are happy to have him on your team as well :))
What was the debate?

jackdawson
11-18-2010, 12:47 PM
What was the debate?

Pretty much what he is doing right now, which I predicted he was capable of and more; Hawk was very anti-Beasley at that time like most, if not all, other non-Heat fans (I don't remember the details of the debate, but it was a common debate at that point where Beasley was a bust or about to be bust by non-Heat fans and we refused to accept that).

SpeeMN
11-18-2010, 12:49 PM
As a Wolves fan we have had NOBODY to feel this good about since Kevin Garnett. Not one of our players have been able to put a scoring streak like this together for the past 4 years. I was beginning to think Minnesota was cursed when it came to our player's' scoring abilities.

So when Chronz comes in and says he's not impressed I think he's just in denial. Does Beasley have to literally become a top 20 talent RIGHT NOW for you to give him the respect he deserves? This is what great players do within their first 3 years, they BREAK OUT, its one of the steps on the staircase to the TOP.

SpeeMN
11-18-2010, 12:51 PM
And to add, I've been a strong Beasley supporter since we got him. If the Timberwolves had drafted him, and he averaged the same number on our team that he did on the Heat, I guarantee he wouldn't have been considered a bust.

CowboysKB24
11-18-2010, 01:08 PM
He is beasting it right now. He is just so ugly, I can't wait him.

Geargo Wallace
11-18-2010, 01:23 PM
Im not hating but I love how lately theres been 2 TWolves threads in the top 5 like all the time now lol

justinnum1
11-18-2010, 01:31 PM
over 25 points in the last 5 games...Welcome Mr. Beasley.

Chronz
11-18-2010, 01:35 PM
Pretty much what he is doing right now, which I predicted he was capable of and more; Hawk was very anti-Beasley at that time like most, if not all, other non-Heat fans (I don't remember the details of the debate, but it was a common debate at that point where Beasley was a bust or about to be bust by non-Heat fans and we refused to accept that).
All I remember was us saying Love was a better player than him but Ill take your word for it

Sadds The Gr8
11-18-2010, 01:36 PM
his first 2 years I waited and waited for him to breakout in Miami because I liked him so much in college but it just never worked. I'll admit that I joined the "Beasley = Bust" wagon this summer, but now I'm happy that Minny's working for him.

Hawkeye15
11-18-2010, 01:39 PM
Most of us, if not all, Heat fans knew he was a special talent but just wasn't on the right system. Whatever Beasley is doing right now I am pretty sure none of the Heat fans is surprised who watched him night in and night out like I did. And all the Heat fans are happy for him now.

I want to see those people who said he was a bust. Please, MAN UP!

(Also @Hawkeye: We had pretty lengthy debate about Beasley earlier this year. Guess what, I am having the laugh now. I know you are happy to have him on your team as well :))

I was pretty much right though. I have never denied his potential and scoring talent. But he was underwhelming, underachieved, and was in a system that shut his strengths down. My argument has never changed.
I will start sticking my neck out for Beasley if he is still producing this scoring efficiency after game 40. But I still need to see more consistency.

Hawkeye15
11-18-2010, 01:44 PM
Pretty much what he is doing right now, which I predicted he was capable of and more; Hawk was very anti-Beasley at that time like most, if not all, other non-Heat fans (I don't remember the details of the debate, but it was a common debate at that point where Beasley was a bust or about to be bust by non-Heat fans and we refused to accept that).

then you should go check the details. I said Love had performed better in their first two years (which he did). I said Beasley had underachieved his first two years (which he did). I said Beasley had been relegated to an underperforming chucker with Miami (which he was).
I never denied his potential in the scoring department. But I questioned on whether his maturity would grow enough to allow it. So far, in 12 games, he has shown great maturity growth. But we need to see it for a longer period of time.

I never once said I wasn't glad to get Beasley for the price we gave up. But did I wonder if he would be league average in PER, under league average in TS%, taking way too many jumpers? Yep.

I am happy with what I am seeing. And anyone who saw him at KSU knew he was capable of this, but he got in his own way. Lets all hope Beasley has grown up and taken his talents seriously.

Chronz
11-18-2010, 01:44 PM
Beasley wasnt held down, he was literally that dumb. Too often he would have a drive available to him only not know how to attack it, settled for the jumper too often. I dont see your point of him waiting in the corner for Wade, it was a team in DESPERATE need of offense, I highly doubt he wasnt given the chance to create.

Hawkeye15
11-18-2010, 01:49 PM
Beasley wasnt held down, he was literally that dumb. Too often he would have a drive available to him only not know how to attack it, settled for the jumper too often. I dont see your point of him waiting in the corner for Wade, it was a team in DESPERATE need of offense, I highly doubt he wasnt given the chance to create.

all of what you say here, I have said. But the Miami system simply chucked him in a corner, and asked him to shoot long 2's off curls and breakdowns in Wade drives. Miami was in desperate need of points, but it all hinged off Wade creation, hence their role players for the most part being useless.
But yes, a mature Beasley with more drive would have obviously increased his overall play. But a player like him needs to be used right when he came into the league, and he wasn't. He is being used correctly now. Not sure if he can keep up the scoring efficiency he is currently at, but its possible if he doesn't fall into the idea that he is Peja now. Once he starts getting crowded, he must use his powerful left hand and get to the rim. But at SF, he shouldn't have a ton of problems getting his shot off

Chronz
11-18-2010, 01:59 PM
You do realize just because they run you off curls doesnt mean you HAVE to shoot the J right?

Like I said Im not buying your theory, if what you were saying were true then we'd see him play far differently (and put up different stats) in the possessions where Wade wasnt on the floor, or were they hiding him in the corner for Arroyos penetration? They went to him in ISO plenty given his low conversion rate. The guy would up fake defenders out of their position and have a straight line drive to the rim, only he doesnt know how to shorten his dribble and rather than expose the ball and risk the turnover he makes a curved trajectory to the rim, allowing his defender time to recover and contest. The end result was usually an awkward looking flick underneath the rim, I wish I still had Synergy so I could show you but I remember thinking its sad when you have an old guy beat and you still allow him to recover and block your shot. Its no coincidence the shtick on him was that he relied on his jumper too often, he was too scared of driving.

Beasley wasnt a bruce bowen clone, they did not tell him to just shoot corner 3's, in fact Im pretty sure that wasnt even the primary source of his spot up shots considering he took nearly as many 3's from the wings. I dont know whos stuff you read that made you buy into this theory but it doesnt add up. Why would a team in desperate need of scoring tell Beasley not to create? They tried, he was inconsistent. His fault

And what do you mean Wades role players being useless? Wade was practically begging for anyone to step up and take over the offense, its why when he wasnt in shape to start the year the team struggled, they had no one to step up. Beasley wasnt a result of circumstance/role, his play was a byproduct of his own ineptitude. Hes improved but how much he has improved is still in question, regardless it has nothing to do with being used "correctly" How he is being used is dependent on how much the team wants to win, of course the Heat arent going to give him the freedom he has in Minny. They arent the worst team in the league and had actual playoff aspirations.

HandslikeCarter
11-18-2010, 02:04 PM
I don't understand how people can say Beasley is the same guy just being used more. Why wouldn't Miami use him like the Wolves are? And don't say Wade because two guys can take more than ten shoots.

Chronz
11-18-2010, 02:12 PM
I don't understand how people can say Beasley is the same guy just being used more. Why wouldn't Miami use him like the Wolves are? And don't say Wade because two guys can take more than ten shoots.

Because Beasley had questionable shot selection and was already chucking at a rate that didnt justify his usage. They were using him in much the same ways, the only difference is he wont get pulled if he misses a rotation and he can stay on the court until he finds his shot even if the team is sucking. I get that hes improved, considering his youth and talent its only natural. But its not a result of Wade holding him back, or the coach misusing him, its simply growth on his part. Players do that whether they get a new situation or not. If it is a result of his situation then that speaks poorly on his part because your essentially saying Beasley could not handle the pressure of being expected to win, now that hes on a **** team there is no pressure and now Beasley can just chuck to his hearts content. Thats not a quality worthy of praise.

THE MTL
11-18-2010, 02:17 PM
I always said iono how ppl label him as "sucks" "bust" "etc" when he was only 21 years old. It was ******** to begin with. I noticed his role on Miami was to watch Wade and hit the open shot.....that is not how to use a player like Beasley.

However I will say, Wolves literally has no one else. I think Beasley might be the best offensive player on that team.

beasted86
11-18-2010, 02:19 PM
Spoelstra ran 1 play for Beasley, isolation at the high post elbow...

Otherwise Beasley was used exactly like Haslem in the Heat's offense: an elbow or corner spot up jumpshooter. Often when he got the ball Beasley was unsure and hesitant whether to just shoot the first open shot like Haslem or to stop the ball and create.

Spo also made sure he stiffled Beasley's perimeter shooting. Despite him shooting 40% over his rookie season, Spo himself and Beasley in interviews said that the coaching gameplan was not for Beasley to shoot the 3.

But the biggest and most telling factor is the trust factor difference. Beasley I'm sure feels a lot more confident playing out there on the floor knowing he's going to be the closer and not pulled for every defensive lapse. Aside from the increased shot attempts, Beasley is averaging more fouls and more turnovers in similar minutes. There are no expectations for the Wolves or Beasley. If they play bad and don't make the playoffs, the coaching staff's first priority right now is developing talent and showing progress and improvement over the season, not necessarily winning games right away. In Miami, the expectation was playoffs and maintaining the winning & defensive culture.

Chronz
11-18-2010, 02:41 PM
Spoelstra ran 1 play for Beasley, isolation at the high post elbow...
Thank you, in other words he allowed him to create.


Otherwise Beasley was used exactly like Haslem in the Heat's offense: an elbow or corner spot up jumpshooter.
Amazing how that 1 difference allowed 1 player to account for a truckload of possessions while Haslem accounted for like half the usage.


Often when he got the ball Beasley was unsure and hesitant whether to just shoot the first open shot like Haslem or to stop the ball and create.
Or when he got a defender in the air, unsure of how to attack the lane. Or when in a triple threat stance, unsure of how to lead a defender and where to palm the ball(Thorpe harped on this before). His BBIQ was poor overall.

omdigga
11-18-2010, 02:57 PM
good value for a second round pick..

beasted86
11-18-2010, 03:03 PM
Thank you, in other words he allowed him to create.


Actually allowing a somewhat undeveloped player like Beasley to create in a stagnant isolation half court set on a bottom 5 3PT% shooting team isn't very smart coaching. The only way to succeed on that type of team is being able to draw fouls at a rate similar to Wade. When teams are zoning the paint because of lack of shooting, and the Heat are also DEAD LAST in assisting, it's not going to lead for a positive development of Beasley because he's not going to get easy high percentage looks.


Amazing how that 1 difference allowed 1 player to account for a truckload of possessions while Haslem accounted for like half the usage.
How did Beasley use a truckload of possessions? The USG% gap between our between our 2nd and 4th scorer (Beasley & Haslem) was only 8.7%. And USG% is a flawed statistic that doesn't account for possessions used to create assists, which Beasley averaged double what Haslem did, be it little from both. Considering how many "true possessions" Wade used, the difference between Beasley & Haslem isn't very big.



Or when he got a defender in the air, unsure of how to attack the lane. Or when in a triple threat stance, unsure of how to lead a defender and where to palm the ball(Thorpe harped on this before). His BBIQ was poor overall.
Yes his IQ seemed poor, but given this example of how he plays in Minny and how he played in college it's obvious it wasn't due to his ability. The coaching staff put him in a poor position to succeed, while simultaneously penalizing him when he failed by benching him during his rookie season, and not allowing him to close out games over the length of his tenure in Miami.

Lim
11-18-2010, 03:23 PM
his success is simple: theres nothing to do in minnesota! miami is the ultimate party spot, he prob had hot girls literally hanging from his dick day in and day out. kinda hard to focus in that atmosphere.

seriously tho, in sota hes got no pressure at all. if they dont make the playoffs its fine cause they werent expected to, if they play well and make a push for the playoffs its just a bonus. its a lot on a 19 year old kid to be thrown into an environment where ppl expect you to just start out winning alongside of D wade of all people. it was an intimidating situation for the kid

jkcronyn
11-18-2010, 03:27 PM
also beasely, if minnesota ever gets good, or if he's traded to a good team it'll be cool to watch if he just fails or if he's still ballin

jackdawson
11-18-2010, 05:45 PM
All I remember was us saying Love was a better player than him but Ill take your word for it

Yea, that too. Both topics had been discussed at that time.

jackdawson
11-18-2010, 05:55 PM
then you should go check the details. I said Love had performed better in their first two years (which he did). I said Beasley had underachieved his first two years (which he did). I said Beasley had been relegated to an underperforming chucker with Miami (which he was).
I never denied his potential in the scoring department. But I questioned on whether his maturity would grow enough to allow it. So far, in 12 games, he has shown great maturity growth. But we need to see it for a longer period of time.

I never once said I wasn't glad to get Beasley for the price we gave up. But did I wonder if he would be league average in PER, under league average in TS%, taking way too many jumpers? Yep.

I am happy with what I am seeing. And anyone who saw him at KSU knew he was capable of this, but he got in his own way. Lets all hope Beasley has grown up and taken his talents seriously.

Pretty much that's what we were going at. The thing is 99% non-Heat fans pretty much gave on the kid and leveled him as a bust. You were very doubtful like many others that he would ever reach his potential. I think that was the difference in our conversation as I recall. I, like all other Heat fans, never thought for a moment that he would fail; our system was what preventing from his growth. And I will be honest Heat culture is not a good one for young players. But yes, I am absolutely happy for Mike as you knew I would be from our conversations after he was dealt to Minny. Let's just hope the kid keeps it up.

Mplsman
11-18-2010, 06:06 PM
22.2 ppg -Number 15 in the league in scoring ahead of Lebron.

jackdawson
11-18-2010, 06:09 PM
22.2 ppg -Number 15 in the league in scoring ahead of Lebron.

lol

Mplsman
11-18-2010, 06:14 PM
^ Ha. It's true though.

CB4AB7VC15
11-18-2010, 06:44 PM
Can't believe the Raps didn't take him...

justinnum1
11-18-2010, 10:57 PM
Beasley keeps this us, and he will be known as the best player from the 2008 draft.

reemy
11-19-2010, 12:25 AM
Scoring on a bad team is a dumb argument to make, Stoudemire went from the Suns to the Knicks so he should be scoring around 30 ppg right now right?

Chronz
11-21-2010, 12:46 AM
Actually allowing a somewhat undeveloped player like Beasley to create in a stagnant isolation half court set on a bottom 5 3PT% shooting team isn't very smart coaching.
Of course hes undeveloped, they are trying to show him the ropes of the NBA, being given the ball and asked to create is a learning process. You dont get better at it by not doing it, and I only agreed to make my point about him not being relegated to just a corner shooter or pindown specialist to Hawkeye and neither of us argued they only ran 1 play for him.

As for Spo's coaching chops I dont like what hes doing with the current Heat but will reserve judgement until the halfway mark, his track record overall however speaks above our opinions, for his talent level the Heat did as well as could be expected the past few years. Whatever it is he did, he did for the team. I understand this may have stunted his growth, but only because Beez himself couldnt handle the responsibility that comes with being held accountable. Getting pulled for a missed rotations could come as an ego crushing shock to a player, or it can drive them to a higher understanding of the game. My theory, he wasnt as bad as perceived in Miami because the facts remained, historically he was among the most productive players in his age group.


The only way to succeed on that type of team is being able to draw fouls at a rate similar to Wade. When teams are zoning the paint because of lack of shooting, and the Heat are also DEAD LAST in assisting, it's not going to lead for a positive development of Beasley because he's not going to get easy high percentage looks.

I dont see the connection your making, how does having suspect perimeter shooting make it easier for a slasher like Wade to thrive? Wade would look alot better if the Heat were a great outside shooting team, as it enhance ones rate of drawing fouls. Heat were among the lowest in passing efficiency in large part because Wade was the only guy who could handle the job. And he created plenty of open looks for BZ.


How did Beasley use a truckload of possessions? The USG% gap between our between our 2nd and 4th scorer (Beasley & Haslem) was only 8.7%.

Beasley used a truckload of possessions because he ranked 25th in usage and was the least efficient among those players like its not even close, the only guy who chucked/waisted possessions at a higher rate was JR Smith, Andre Blatche matched his output exactly. This isnt to say it was for the bad of the team or something to hold against him, I really dont worry about stuff like that until it becomes conclusive all I argue is his success rate in that role.

Besides what do you mean only? 8% is pretty significant.


And USG% is a flawed statistic that doesn't account for possessions used to create assists, which Beasley averaged double what Haslem did, be it little from both. Considering how many "true possessions" Wade used, the difference between Beasley & Haslem isn't very big.
So you adding more possessions to Beasley's usage is suppose to counter the fact that he uses a truckload of possessions? Its conceivable but my main point will still stand, that waisted a truckload of possessions. Anyways there is nothing flawed about USG%, it does precisely what its meant to. Your downplaying something you dont understand considering it was created precisely to avoid factoring in assists. The reason being to avoid double counting of possessions so that everything adds up neatly when you plug in a players contributions to his teams bottom line.
You can still look up a players usage rate if you prefer Hollingers methods but the point will still remain that hes not very efficient compared to his peer group.



Yes his IQ seemed poor, but given this example of how he plays in Minny and how he played in college it's obvious it wasn't due to his ability. The coaching staff put him in a poor position to succeed, while simultaneously penalizing him when he failed by benching him during his rookie season, and not allowing him to close out games over the length of his tenure in Miami.
Lets make no mistake about it, his IQ didnt "SEEM" poor, it was in fact putrid. If his jumper wasnt on, he didnt have it EZ. He made life harder on himself because of it. Of course they penalized him when he failed, they were trying to maintain a winning culture, that Beasley failed to progress in such a situation isnt a redeeming quality. Plenty of players have managed to make a name for themselves despite being held accountable, however short the leash. Anyways this is of course by your guys theory, personally I dont buy into the idea that none of this could have happened in Miami. By this I dont mean the high scoring outbursts because its obvious he wouldnt come close to using the truckload of possessions with the BIG3 around but that he would make the same leaps as a player because he has improved.

If he couldnt have then it reveals even more than Beas supporters want to admit, that hes a loser who can only contribute on losing teams.

Chronz
11-21-2010, 12:51 AM
^ Ha. It's true though.

Im pretty sure he wasnt laughing because he found it lacking in accuracy

Hawkeye15
11-21-2010, 02:43 AM
Of course hes undeveloped, they are trying to show him the ropes of the NBA, being given the ball and asked to create is a learning process. You dont get better at it by not doing it, and I only agreed to make my point about him not being relegated to just a corner shooter or pindown specialist to Hawkeye and neither of us argued they only ran 1 play for him.

As for Spo's coaching chops I dont like what hes doing with the current Heat but will reserve judgement until the halfway mark, his track record overall however speaks above our opinions, for his talent level the Heat did as well as could be expected the past few years. Whatever it is he did, he did for the team. I understand this may have stunted his growth, but only because Beez himself couldnt handle the responsibility that comes with being held accountable. Getting pulled for a missed rotations could come as an ego crushing shock to a player, or it can drive them to a higher understanding of the game. My theory, he wasnt as bad as perceived in Miami because the facts remained, historically he was among the most productive players in his age group.


I dont see the connection your making, how does having suspect perimeter shooting make it easier for a slasher like Wade to thrive? Wade would look alot better if the Heat were a great outside shooting team, as it enhance ones rate of drawing fouls. Heat were among the lowest in passing efficiency in large part because Wade was the only guy who could handle the job. And he created plenty of open looks for BZ.


Beasley used a truckload of possessions because he ranked 25th in usage and was the least efficient among those players like its not even close, the only guy who chucked/waisted possessions at a higher rate was JR Smith, Andre Blatche matched his output exactly. This isnt to say it was for the bad of the team or something to hold against him, I really dont worry about stuff like that until it becomes conclusive all I argue is his success rate in that role.

Besides what do you mean only? 8% is pretty significant.


So you adding more possessions to Beasley's usage is suppose to counter the fact that he uses a truckload of possessions? Its conceivable but my main point will still stand, that waisted a truckload of possessions. Anyways there is nothing flawed about USG%, it does precisely what its meant to. Your downplaying something you dont understand considering it was created precisely to avoid factoring in assists. The reason being to avoid double counting of possessions so that everything adds up neatly when you plug in a players contributions to his teams bottom line.
You can still look up a players usage rate if you prefer Hollingers methods but the point will still remain that hes not very efficient compared to his peer group.



Lets make no mistake about it, his IQ didnt "SEEM" poor, it was in fact putrid. If his jumper wasnt on, he didnt have it EZ. He made life harder on himself because of it. Of course they penalized him when he failed, they were trying to maintain a winning culture, that Beasley failed to progress in such a situation isnt a redeeming quality. Plenty of players have managed to make a name for themselves despite being held accountable, however short the leash. Anyways this is of course by your guys theory, personally I dont buy into the idea that none of this could have happened in Miami. By this I dont mean the high scoring outbursts because its obvious he wouldnt come close to using the truckload of possessions with the BIG3 around but that he would make the same leaps as a player because he has improved.

If he couldnt have then it reveals even more than Beas supporters want to admit, that hes a loser who can only contribute on losing teams.

So is it your opinion, that Beasley is a lost cause who will always lack basketball IQ, and never be an efficient player?

The Jokemaker
11-21-2010, 03:09 AM
I always figured Beasley would be a good player in the league just needed another opportunity. Thing is with the general public is if he has 3 bad games in a row again he's back to bust status. The kid is being allowed to play, grow and learn which almost sounds like a fisher-price commercial. He's going to continue his success as a good player and build on it to become a better overall player (at least that's what I think will happen). What's sad is every team in the NBA except the Twolves passed on beasley. And the Twolves gave up just 2 second round picks for the guy, what a steal.

jackdawson
11-21-2010, 09:39 AM
Watching Daleja try to spin this to seem like the Heat aren't stupid for giving him away is giving me a case of the lulz.

Really? I didn't read what he said but how is he wrong if he thinks Miami Heat didn't make a mistake by letting Beasley go? What would be Beasley's role in the forward rotation with LeBron, Bosh, and Haslem? Do you realize what the Miami Heat has achieved in the summer and giving up Beasley was a part of it?

Chronz
11-21-2010, 06:45 PM
So is it your opinion, that Beasley is a lost cause who will always lack basketball IQ, and never be an efficient player?
No, I dont write players off at this stage in their careers, especially when theyve been reasonably productive. I waited forever for the likes of Kwame and Darko to find their niche so why would I count out super cool beas?

What I said was that if its true that he couldnt have improved in Miami, then it reveals something about him that no fan would ever want to admit about their player. Hes a loser.