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View Full Version : All-Time ReDraft Playoffs - Conference Finals: 1 Boston Celtics vs. 6 New York Knicks



Catfish1314
11-12-2010, 03:38 PM
Every once in a while, PSD holds an NBA All-Time ReDraft. Players that were eligible to be drafted must have played in the 1980-1981 season or beyond. The intention of this rule was to ensure that PSD community had better knowledge of the players being drafted and voted on. Please take the time to look over the players and the teams and vote for the better squad. We thank you for your time as your votes are important to determining an NBA All Time ReDraft champion.

This Eastern Conference Finals match-up features the top seeded Boston Celtics versus the sixth seeded New York Knicks. The Boston Celtics have homecourt advantage.

Please evaluate each player based on how well they played in their prime; injuries have no bearing on this game what so ever. Most of the GMís have taken the time to create a clubhouse with stats for their player which is based on each playerís best three consecutive seasons.

Celtics Depth Chart:


PG: Kevin Johnson / Terrell Brandon
SG: Penny Hardaway / Byron Scott
SF: Scottie Pippen / Byron Russell / Rudy Gay
PF: Bill Laimbeer / Christian Laettner
C: Dwight Howard / Shawn Bradley

Knicks Depth Chart:


C - Bill Cartwright / Maurice Lucas / Theo Ratliff
PF - Wes Unseld / Kermit Washington
SF - Kevin Durant / Sean Elliott
SG - Kobe Bryant / Paul Pressey / Hubert Davis
PG - Fat Lever / Kevin Porter

Celtics Write-up:


I would like first congratulate the Knicks for making the conference final. Certainly a big achievement considering they were the 6 seed coming into the playoffs. I wish them nothing but the best of luck in this series.

Match-Ups:
Kevin Johnson v. Fat Lever
I am very excited about the prospects of having Kevin Johnson go up against Fat Lever in this series. Lever is in his prime was a very solid PG, offering some scoring, good rebounding and was a decent distributor on offense. That being said, Kevin Johnson was that a whole lot more. As I have said in every match-up that KJ has been apart of in these playoffs, he possess a tremendous amount of speed and quickness that no PG can match. KJ in his prime scored over 20 ppg and 12 aspg. He managed to get to the free throw line at an alarming rate of 7.7 attempts per game. His average win shares per season in his best 3 consecutive years yielding a terrific 12.17. Johnson would also have no problem-guarding Lever on the defensive end because of KJís quickness. KJ did average close to 2 steals per game in his prime. It also helps that Lever was a very sub-par shooter from behind the arch in the prime of his career. Advantage Celtics

Penny Hardaway v. Kobe Bryant
What a great battle this would be. We all know what Kobe Bryant is capable of and what he has accomplished in his career. He has been a terrific offensive player and a solid defensive perimeter player. That being said, I do think Hardaway poses some match-up problems for Kobe. Hardaway like Kobe remains a very difficult player to guard. Penny in the prime of his career shoot 50% from the floor, averaged 21 ppg, 4.4 rpg and 6.6 apg. Hardaway has the ball handling and speed to get to the rim against a player like Bryant at an effective rate. In his prime, Penny got to line over 6 times per contest. Some people tend to forget that Hardaway was selected two consecutive years to the All NBA first team and had a reputation of being a terrific post-season player. In his only trip to the NBA finals, Hardaway averaged 24.5 points, 4.8 rebounds and 8 assists, while shooting 50% from the field. Penny also happens to be a very underrated defender considering he finished in the top six in steals on three separate occasions. Hardaway speed was often too much for SGís to handle and is probably the closest thing the NBA has seen to the next Magic Johnson based solely on their similar styles of play and size. Hardaway would certainly make this an interesting series for Kobe and its closer than some may think. Advantage Knicks.

Scottie Pippen v. Kevin Durant
What can I say about this match-up. Whatís there not to like? Durant has played in the NBA for a mere 3 complete seasons. He has yet to accomplish anything of any real significance in his short career that could even be compared to that of Scottie Pippen. Everything Durant does well, Pippen does even better. Durant uses his size and ball handing to make life difficult for todayís current SF. The bad thing for Durant is that what he holds as an advantage against the SFís of today would have no baring against Pippen. As I have been saying through out the redraft playoffs, there is no perimeter player that Pippen could not guard. Pippen made the NBA all 1st Defensive team 8 times and 2 times on the NBA all 2nd Defensive team. Pippen was a relentless man on man defender and possessed tenacious on-the-ball perimeter defense. He even provided exceptional interior defense guarding power forwards like Malone and Barkely in the prime of his career. He also happened to be an incredible help defender throughout his career. There was simply no part of his defensive game that was not exceptional. Its worth noting that Pippen is the only player in NBA history to record 5 blocks and 5 steals in a playoff game. Durant would be very hard pressed to do anything of significance against Pippen in this series. Pippen was also a great offensive player. His athleticism, strength and ball handling made him a complete force on the offensive end. He was also a very unselfish player and was really the first Point-Forward the NBA has ever seen. Some will say Pippen is not a first option on the floor but that could not be farther from the truth. When Jordan left for retirement in the mid 90ís, Pippen averaged 22.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 2.9 steals, 1.9 three-pointers, and 0.8 blocks per game, while shooting 49.1% from the field and finishing third in MVP voting. He was the go to gut for the Bulls all year long and proved that he could be a number 1 option. Advantage Celtics

Bill Laimbeer v. Wes Unseld
Itís worth noting that Unseld is 6í7 and is the starting PF against Laimbeer. Unseldís 6í7 frame in the late 60ís might have been acceptable for a PF but against the PFís of the 80ís to the present, he would be crushed. Unseld did have terrific rebounding numbers in his career but it was against smaller and less skilled competition. Unseld would have no hope in grabbing 14 boards a game against the 6í11 Laimbeer. Laimbeer has the height, strength and weight advantage over Unseld. If Unseld had any quickness or was a quicker PF, Laimbeer may have some trouble but Unseld is not. Laimbeer in the prime of his career was a great post defender and a high volume rebounder. He was also had a great mid range game and ran the pick and roll very effectively throughout his career. You can expect to see Laimbeer and KJ run the pick and roll often allowing more opportrunities to exploit the size of Laimbeer over Unseld. Laimbeer would man handle Unseld and would be in store for a huge series. Mo Lucas would also have issues guarding the bigger and stronger Laimbeer in the post. Advantage Celtics.

Dwight Hoard v. Bill Cartwright
It can be said that no center possess a better combination of athleticism, size and strength than Howard except the Dream. Despite Howard inefficiency at times to expand his post game, it is athleticism and strength that allows him to be a good scoring big man. Howard ability to play above the rim and get to glass on the offensive end, make him a potent offensive player. If players fail to box him out, he has the ability to put back missed shots immediately with put back dunks. The real area where Howard shines is on the defensive end. In Howardís career so far he has been a two time defensive player of the year winner. He is a great post defender, defensive rebounder and excels in blocking shots. I am more than confident that Bill Cartwright would have difficulty with the quicker & althetic Howard that would allow Dwight to have a huge series. Advantage Celtics

Celtics Bench v. Knicks Bench
Anchoring my bench is my backcourt duo of Terrell Brandon and Byron Scott. Brandon shares a very similar game to KJ and is able to maintain a similar style of play on the floor when KJ is off. Brandon also happens to be a great three point shooter, averaging 38% from behind the arch in his prime. Byron Scott throughout his career was a effective scoring guard and solid perimeter defender. Like Brandon, Scott offers a great outside shot and a 40% three point percentage in his prime. Anchoring the rest of the bench is Laettner, Bradley and Russell. All 3 players offer solid defense and consistent play. Russell provides another solid perimeter defender and shooter while Laettner provides some scoring punch in the post off the bench. Bradley with his length and size is a great defensive presence to have guarding the middle when Howard or Laimbeer are off. Both benches offer good players and it remains very close. I do however like the advantage that my bench backcourt has over the Knicks.

Conclusion:
I see no reason why the Celtics should not win this series, we beat a better team in the Pistons to advance to the conference final and I feel we match-up great with the Knicks. The Celtics have the advantage at 4 of the 5 starting positions and also have the better frontcourt. The combination of the size, strength, reboundng and defense in the Celtics frontcourt win this series for me. Laimbeer and Howard would dominate the interior on offense and defense against the Knicks. Pippen also comfortably allows me to help shutdown either Kobe or Durant depending on which player is on the floor. I am confident that the Celtics would take this series in no more than 6 games and the home court advantage guarantees a trip to the finals for these Celtics.
Knicks Write-up:


Depth Chart: Knicks
C - Bill Cartwright / Maurice Lucas / Theo Ratliff
PF - Wes Unseld / Kermit Washington
SF - Kevin Durant / Sean Elliott
SG - Kobe Bryant / Paul Pressey / Hubert Davis
PG - Fat Lever / Kevin Porter

Starting Five:
Center - Bill Cartwright- 18.9 PPG | 7.5 RPG | 1.5 APG | 1.1 BPG | 55% FG% | 79% FT% | (1979-1982)
Power Forward - Wes Unseld- 14.7 PPG | 17.3 RPG | 3.4 APG | 50% FG% | 63% FT% | (1968-1971)
Small Forward - Kevin Durant- 25.2 PPG | 6.2 RPG | 2.7 APG | 1.2 SPG | 0.9 BPG | 46% FG% | 36% 3P% | 88% FT% | (2007-2010)
Shooting Guard - Kobe Bryant- 31.8 PPG | 5.8 RPG | 5.1 APG | 1.7 SPG | 0.4 BPG | 46% FG% | 35% 3P% | 85% FT% | (2005-2008)
Point Guard - Fat Lever- 19.2 PPG | 8.8 RPG | 7.9 APG | 2.6 SPG | 0.3 BPG | 47% FG% | 78% FT% | (1986-1989)

Bench:
C/PF Maurice Lucas- 19.0 PPG | 10.2 RPG | 2.8 APG | 1.0 SPG | 0.9 BPG | 47% FG% | 77% FT% | (1976-1979)
PF Kermit Washington - 12.0 PPG | 9.9 RPG | 1.9 APG | 1.0 SPG | 1.4 BPG | 56% FG% | 65% FT% | (1978-1981)
SF Sean Elliott - 17.7 PPG | 4.5 RPG | 2.8 APG | 0.8 SPG | 0.5 BPG | 47% FG% | 40% 3P% | 78% FT% | (1994-1997)
SG Paul Pressey - 14.8 PPG | 5.1 RPG | 7.3 APG | 1.8 SPG | 0.8 BPG | 50% FG% | 77% FT% | (1984-1987)
PG Kevin Porter - 13.1 PPG | 2.1 RPG | 10.3 APG | 1.5 SPG | 0.1 BPG | 48% FG% | 75% FT% | (1975-1978)
Deep Bench:
F/C Theo Ratliff - 11.8 PPG | 8.0 RPG | 0.8 APG | 0.7 SPG | 3.2 BPG | 49% FG% | 75% FT% | (1998-2001)
G Hubert Davis - 10.6 PPG | 1.4 RPG | 2.0 APG | 0.5 SPG | 0.1 BPG | 48% FG% | 45% 3P% | 84% FT% | (1993-1996)

This is a tremendous matchup because we both have extremely talented players but the difference is that mine are built as a great team and his players are like trying to build a puzzle with all side pieces. The Boston Celtics are flawed and this is the round it finally needs to catch up to them.

1. Kevin Johnson had Jeff Hornacek, Dan Majerle, and Danny Ainge. Penny Hardaway had Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott. Scottie Pippen had Craig Hodges, John Paxson, and Steve Kerr. Now who do they have spreading the floor at the end of close games? Each other. What is preventing me from just clogging the paint and forcing them to take jump shots? Nothing. If he says heís going to take one of them out for one of his bench shooters than I say thank you for playing a bench player against Kobe Bryant or Kevin Durant.

2. Itís the Eastern Conference Finals. Close game. One minute left. Who they giving the ball too? Scottie? Hell even Phil Jackson would rather give it to Toni Kukoc. Hereís a fun fact for you. I had Pippen in the last all-time redraft. Who did I surround him with? Walt Frazier (clutch scorer) and Ray Allen (lights-out shooter). His backcourt is the wrong fit for his #1 pick. Meanwhile, in the clutch Iím giving it to Kobe and either clearing out and letting Unseld set one of his trademark swallow you up screens.

3. Dwight Howard showed last year heís still limited offensively. How limited? In his series against the Bobcats he averaged under 10ppg and under 50% shooting. This was being guarded by starter Theo Ratliff (at age 37), and centers Tyson Chandler (7í1/235) and Nazr Mohammed (6í10/220). Who am I guarding him with? Bill Cartwright (7í1/245), All-Defensive 1st Team Mo Lucas (6í9/215), and All-Defensive 2nd Team Theo Ratliff in his prime where was getting almost 4bpg. I have the size and depth to throw at him to limit him to under his normal scoring and thatís a fact.

4. When the backup bigs come in who is guarding Mo Lucas? Shawn Bradley? Is that seriously his only backup center? Laettner? Maurice Lucas was a 20-10 bigman who was the leading scorer for the NBA Champion Blazers. He would have a field day on these big men.

Now look at the Knicks. I have a team that is exactly that. A team. Lever, Kobe, Porter, and Unseld distributing the ball. Cartwright and Lucas scoring on the low block. Unseld, Lucas, Washington grabbing all the rebounds. Scorers like Kobe, Durant, and Elliot (40% 3pt shooter) lighting it up on the perimeter and getting to the foul line (Kobe, Durant). All-Defensive team players throughout my roster: Fat Lever (PG), Kobe(wing), Pressey(wing), Washington(big), Lucas(big), Ratliff(big). Two league MVPs and Finals MVPs in Kobe and Unseld. Iím built for this series with great balance, teamwork, and proven winners. He has no one to space the floor and no game closer even close to Kobeís level. If he guards Durant with Penny thatís a huge mismatch for the Knicks. I have the perfect recipe to slow down Dwight and I have the better bench. Vote for the better team and donít think twice.

Chacarron
11-12-2010, 04:07 PM
This was a tough decision. Probably the best all-round defensive team in the re-draft going against the best perimeter offense in the re-draft. There is no denying, the Knicks' bench offers more and better options which could play decisive roles during this matchup. Both Kobe and Durant need the ball in their hands and Scottie is capable of shutting one of them down. That's key in my opinion, so I went with the well-assembled Boston Celtics.

Mile High Champ
11-12-2010, 04:24 PM
Hopefully I can get to those finals..

KnicksorBust
11-12-2010, 04:24 PM
This was a tough decision. Probably the best all-round defensive team in the re-draft going against the best perimeter offense in the re-draft. There is no denying, the Knicks' bench offers more and better options which could play decisive roles during this matchup. Both Kobe and Durant need the ball in their hands and Scottie is capable of shutting one of them down. That's key in my opinion, so I went with the well-assembled Boston Celtics.

It makes it sound like you are going to vote for Knicks. :) We have the better bench and he can only limit one of our scorers.

Few things to keep in mind:
Have we figured out how his offense is going to score if I collapse the paint? He has no shooters.

He's putting Pippen on Durant which means Pippen will spend most of his time wasted out at the 3pt line while Kobe feasts on Penny.

He says he loves the KJ vs. Fat Lever matchup yet seems to have no idea that Fat Lever was a top defensive PG and made All-Defensive 2nd team while Kevin Johnson was a gambler like Iverson who got beat all the time. Keep in mind this is the same KJ that was playing so bad in the 1993 Finals that he got BENCHED in crunch time of Game 2 for Frankie Johnson. It was a historic collapse. Lever (a 20-8-8 PG) will definately force him into some shaky performances.

Unseld is better than Laimbeer. He's better defensively, he's a better rebounder, and his passing ability is in a league of it's own. By starting two centers and a backcourt that is weak defensively, Unseld's outlet passing to Kobe and Durant will be getting a LOT of easy baskets. Hell it could force Pippen into foul trouble.

Mo Lucas vs. Shawn Bradley is just absurd. I hope people don't ignore that.

zambo4president
11-12-2010, 04:27 PM
Gimme da C'S

Chacarron
11-12-2010, 04:30 PM
You are going to have trouble scoring as well. Your post players will not do much with Howard and Laimbeer guarding them. Kobe will have his way, but I'm sure that's what MHC wants: make your team one-dimensional.

ShakeN'Bake
11-12-2010, 04:33 PM
I have to go with the C's here.

KnicksorBust
11-12-2010, 04:44 PM
You are going to have trouble scoring as well. Your post players will not do much with Howard and Laimbeer guarding them. Kobe will have his way, but I'm sure that's what MHC wants: make your team one-dimensional.

KJ can't guard Lever at all. Penny can't guard Kobe at all. These mean that his bigs will have to help all game, risk getting in foul trouble, and that will create easy opportunities for my bigs. Durant will still score and he'll pull Pippen away from the basket because he can hit from anywhere on the floor. Unseld will get mid-high teens vs. Laimbeer and Cartwright/Lucas will drop 30+ on Dwight/Bradley.

Now tell me how a team that can't shoot a lick and has no game closer is going to make it to the NBA Finals. :)

Mile High Champ
11-12-2010, 04:49 PM
It makes it sound like you are going to vote for Knicks. :) We have the better bench and he can only limit one of our scorers.

Few things to keep in mind:
Have we figured out how his offense is going to score if I collapse the paint? He has no shooters.

He's putting Pippen on Durant which means Pippen will spend most of his time wasted out at the 3pt line while Kobe feasts on Penny.

What are you even talking about, Pippen has proved he can knock down the three at a fairly consistent rate, especially in the clutch. Pippen will also see time guarding Kobe in this series and I am sorry Kobe would not feast on Penny. Hardaway was a solid defensive SG in his prime and he is easily quick enough and strong enough to play right there with Kobe. You could not be any more wrong!


He says he loves the KJ vs. Fat Lever matchup yet seems to have no idea that Fat Lever was a top defensive PG and made All-Defensive 2nd team while Kevin Johnson was a gambler like Iverson who got beat all the time. Keep in mind this is the same KJ that was playing so bad in the 1993 Finals that he got BENCHED in crunch time of Game 2 for Frankie Johnson. It was a historic collapse. Lever (a 20-8-8 PG) will definately force him into some shaky performances.

He made the nba all defensive 2nd team once. Not 3 or 4 times. Once, he is hardly an elite defensive pg. Johnson's quickness would destroy lever. If lever is as good as you claim, why is he never in discussion as being a top 10 pg of all time like KJ? Is Lever one of three players in NBA history (Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson are the others) to have averaged at least 20.0 points and 12.0 assists in a season? I did not think so but KJ did. Lever never played any basketball of any significance in his career. He made the 2nd round of the playoffs twice!


Unseld is better than Laimbeer. He's better defensively, he's a better rebounder, and his passing ability is in a league of it's own. By starting two centers and a backcourt that is weak defensively, Unseld's outlet passing to Kobe and Durant will be getting a LOT of easy baskets. Hell it could force Pippen into foul trouble.


Tell me your joking? Unseld is the definition of being undersized for his position. He stands 6'7, 245. How is he honestly going to be an effective rebounder against Bill Laimbeer and his 6'11, 260 frame? Unseld has those rebounding numbers against weaker and smaller players. He would get destroyed by Laimbeer. Did you know that Laimbeer had more defensive rebounds from 1982-90 than any NBA player. Its a fact and Unseld would be hard pressed to get 6 rebounds in a game against Laimbeer. Laimbeer was also very quick for his size and would have no trouble playing PF next to Howard. Your front court is a defensive liability and my front court is simply elite on the defensive end.


Mo Lucas vs. Shawn Bradley is just absurd. I hope people take a close look at that.

Having Cartwright and Unseld go up against Howard and Laimbeer is absurd.

Mile High Champ
11-12-2010, 04:52 PM
KJ can't guard Lever at all. Penny can't guard Kobe at all. These mean that his bigs will have to help all game, risk getting in foul trouble, and that will create easy opportunities for my bigs. Durant will still score and he'll pull Pippen away from the basket because he can hit from anywhere on the floor. Unseld will get mid-high teens vs. Laimbeer and Cartwright/Lucas will drop 30+ on Dwight/Bradley.

Now tell me how a team that can't shoot a lick and has no game closer is going to make it to the NBA Finals. :)

How is 6'7 PF going to get you to the NBA finals. As I mentioned in my write up, Brandon, Scott and Russell are all great 3 point shooters. Scott started on those championship laker teams and has a deadly 3 point shot. I have plenty of shooting.

Rivera
11-12-2010, 04:53 PM
knicks slightly

because pippen will b guarding durant so penny vs kobe is a mis match

bostons bigs are better than the knicks bigs but bostons bigs cant really score anyway

and since these 2 are evenly matched alot of these games are gonna go to the wire

and who do the knicks have 2 give the ball 2 in the final secons - kobe bryant

who do the Cs have to give the ball 2 in the final seconds?? dwight howard?? scottie pippen?? penny?? kj??? all 2nd options on their prespective teams

Mile High Champ
11-12-2010, 05:00 PM
knicks slightly

because pippen will b guarding durant so penny vs kobe is a mis match

bostons bigs are better than the knicks bigs but bostons bigs cant really score anyway

and since these 2 are evenly matched alot of these games are gonna go to the wire

and who do the knicks have 2 give the ball 2 in the final secons - kobe bryant

who do the Cs have to give the ball 2 in the final seconds?? dwight howard?? scottie pippen?? penny?? kj??? all 2nd options on their prespective teams

Scottie Pippen or Penny Hardaway could both be the number 1 option in crunch time. People forget how good these two were in the playoffs and finished among the top 3 in MVP voting before.

Rivera
11-12-2010, 05:14 PM
Scottie Pippen or Penny Hardaway could both be the number 1 option in crunch time. People forget how good these two were in the playoffs and finished among the top 3 in MVP voting before.

i know how good penny was him lil penny n shaq was the WHOLE reason i became a orlando magic fan

and pippen could b a #1 in the crunch but vs kobe in the clutch??? im take kobe everyday of the week because i saw kobe hit many game winners and bring his team back when they were loosin

i did see pippen do this in chicago....o wait no i didnt im gettin pippen confused with MJ :D

KnicksorBust
11-12-2010, 05:21 PM
What are you even talking about, Pippen has proved he can knock down the three at a fairly consistent rate, especially in the clutch. Pippen will also see time guarding Kobe in this series and I am sorry Kobe would not feast on Penny. Hardaway was a solid defensive SG in his prime and he is easily quick enough and strong enough to play right there with Kobe. You could not be any more wrong!



34-35% in his prime is not consistent. If Pippen's perimeter game is your answer then I say let it rip. I'll take my chances with the taller Kevin Durant playing off him and contesting those 3's. Now you decide to ambigously put Pippen on both Kobe and Durant. Smart move. Impossible but smart. And Kobe is one of greatest players of all-time he can go off on any SG when he's hot. Now I can't even get credit for my best player? Your so biased in your analysis it's outrageous.


He made the nba all defensive 2nd team once. Not 3 or 4 times. Once, he is hardly an elite defensive pg. Johnson's quickness would destroy lever. If lever is as good as you claim, why is he never in discussion as being a top 10 pg of all time like KJ? Is Lever one of three players in NBA history (Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson are the others) to have averaged at least 20.0 points and 12.0 assists in a season? I did not think so but KJ did. Lever never played any basketball of any significance in his career. He made the 2nd round of the playoffs twice!



Our guys both scored around 20ppg. Mine played defense. Very good defense. Yours played bad defense. Yours played terribly in the biggest spots of his career and had to be pulled for a no name.



Tell me your joking? Unseld is the definition of being undersized for his position. He stands 6'7, 245. How is he honestly going to be an effective rebounder against Bill Laimbeer and his 6'11, 260 frame? Unseld has those rebounding numbers against weaker and smaller players. He would get destroyed by Laimbeer. Did you know that Laimbeer had more defensive rebounds from 1982-90 than any NBA player. Its a fact and Unseld would be hard pressed to get 6 rebounds in a game against Laimbeer. Laimbeer was also very quick for his size and would have no trouble playing PF next to Howard. Your front court is a defensive liability and my front court is simply elite on the defensive end.



Having Cartwright and Unseld go up against Howard and Laimbeer is absurd.

:laugh: Now you have just resorted to lying and using careers instead of peaks. Maybe I should ask you to warn yourself about a DQ. :rolleyes: I love how you just added 15 pounds to Laimbeer when they weighed the same. What about Unseld's skill set doesn't translate to the modern game? Boxing out? Superior Passing Skills? Setting Screens? Oh and Bill Cartwright was able to hang with Ewing. I saw it with my own eyes every year.


How is 6'7 PF going to get you to the NBA finals. As I mentioned in my write up, Brandon, Scott and Russell are all great 3 point shooters. Scott started on those championship laker teams and has a deadly 3 point shot. I have plenty of shooting.

I don't know ask Dennis Rodman or Charles Barkley.

roshan3ai
11-12-2010, 05:31 PM
A HUGE advantage for the Knicks is Mo Lucas off the bench. He is a spectacular two way big who would FEAST on the Celtics's backup bigs

roshan3ai
11-12-2010, 05:35 PM
Also, I highly doubt that his poor defensive backcourt would be able to contain Kobe and Fat Lever. It's a huge disadvantage for them. On the other hand, the Knicks have a very sound defensive backcourt, and for that matter, a very good defensive team.

Mile High Champ
11-12-2010, 05:50 PM
Also, I highly doubt that his poor defensive backcourt would be able to contain Kobe and Fat Lever. It's a huge disadvantage for them. On the other hand, the Knicks have a very sound defensive backcourt, and for that matter, a very good defensive team.

Hardaway is anything but a push over on defense. I don't get the bashing.
Also lever is not a stud on defense like KOB is trying to have you believe. I don't see how hardaway would not be effective in this series. He has the ball handling and quickness to make life difficult for Kobe.

Mile High Champ
11-12-2010, 07:07 PM
34-35% in his prime is not consistent. If Pippen's perimeter game is your answer then I say let it rip. I'll take my chances with the taller Kevin Durant playing off him and contesting those 3's. Now you decide to ambigously put Pippen on both Kobe and Durant. Smart move. Impossible but smart. And Kobe is one of greatest players of all-time he can go off on any SG when he's hot. Now I can't even get credit for my best player? Your so biased in your analysis it's outrageous. .

My point I was making was I don't mid putting Pippen on either Durant or Kobe. Pippen I am confident could shut down either or pretty well and certainly cause either to fail to reach their prime year averages. I feel that for the most part Hardaway can do a good job guarding Kobe because Hardaway was a quick and lengthy guard that could stay in front of Kobe. I am biased, how about your own analysis of cartwright and howard. Its interesting you chose to ignore Dwight's defensive capabilities and the fact he is the best defensive player two years running.


Our guys both scored around 20ppg. Mine played defense. Very good defense. Yours played bad defense. Yours played terribly in the biggest spots of his career and had to be pulled for a no name.

If this is indeed the case than why is Lever not ever mentioned in top 10 PG discussion? KJ has been in that discussion since he retired, he statistical feats are damn near incredible when you consider the company he is apart of.
As I have mentioned, he is one of 3 players to average 20 and 12 in a season. He is one of only three players in NBA history (Oscar Robertson and Isiah Thomas are the others) to have averaged at least 20.0 points and 10.0 assists in three consecutive seasons, all in his prime. Lever was an above average defender but he is not Gary Payton and thats what it seems like you are labelling Lever as. KJ was always efficent and contributed greatly to his team winning night in and night out. Over his best 3 years. KJ had Total Win Shares of 36.50 for 3 years, that works out to Win Shares per season of 12.17. That is an incredible number. Johnson also averaged close to 2 spg in his prime.



:laugh: Now you have just resorted to lying and using careers instead of peaks. Maybe I should ask you to warn yourself about a DQ. :rolleyes: I love how you just added 15 pounds to Laimbeer when they weighed the same. What about Unseld's skill set doesn't translate to the modern game? Boxing out? Superior Passing Skills? Setting Screens? Oh and Bill Cartwright was able to hang with Ewing. I saw it with my own eyes every year.

I am using Peaks, I clearly identified Laimbeer as being a premier rebounder. You ignore the fact that Laimbeer averaged 12 RPG in the prime of his career and somehow ignore the fact that Unseld would be able to be an effective rebounder against Laimbeer. Laimbeer could defend the high screen very well, he was physical and never gave an inch. Boxing out can only take you so far, Unseld was a great rebounder for his time but could not be able to handle the best rebounder of his prime in Laimbeer. Laimbeer never got the awards he deserved because of his style of play and many regard him as a defensive force. Seeing with your own eyes Cartwright defend Ewing is not an agrument to why Cartwright could defend Howard, they are two very diffferent player. this is especially true consideirng the difference in athletic ability.



I don't know ask Dennis Rodman or Charles Barkley.

Rodman and Barkely are not Unseld. They are no where near in the same class. Not to mention Unseld got his career numbers in the ABA. The talent level and size was weakeer and smaller than what Barkley and Rodman were going up against in the 80's and 90's.

UPost2Much
11-13-2010, 12:31 AM
On name value alone, I could see the C's winning this, but when the actual matchup comes into play, I don't see how the Celtics beat the Knicks in a 48-minute game (or 42-minute game if you're Z-Bo)...

KnicksorBust
11-13-2010, 02:33 PM
Bump. Let's get some more votes in here!

Baller1
11-13-2010, 04:29 PM
Knicks in 7.

Ebbs
11-13-2010, 05:06 PM
I shudder at the thought of a Laker and Celtics final in this.

tredigs
11-13-2010, 05:14 PM
Didn't even read both write-ups or bother to finish the first one (I won't vote), but a couple homer-lines jumped out at me:

#1: "Everything Durant does well, Pippen does better". Uh, COME AGAIN? Pippen in his prime is absolutely the better all around player than KD at this stage, but Durant's top ability is scoring, and he does more of it and in a more efficient manner (Durant just posted a .607 TS% putting up 30+, while Pip's best year was .561% at 17.8). If Durant's shot is off, he'll just get to the line (he made more FT's last season than ANY PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY - the dude is a machine from the stripe). Pippen wins the matchup, but try to refrain from making ridiculous claims that illuminate your homerness in the situation.

#2: The comment about "no center possesses the athleticism, size and strength of Dwight Howard outside of The Dream". For one, even if this is true, who cares? They're are plenty of athletic monsters in the world, but it doesn't mean they can ball. But that said, prime Shaq? David Robinson? Wilt Chamberlain?? All possess better physical attributes for a center than Dwight, and are all FAR, FAR greater players (I realize that you did not say otherwise, but it bears mentioning).

king4day
11-13-2010, 05:28 PM
I don't think Pippen should be considered better than Durant?
Durant is controlling a team by himself while Pippen had Jordan. Makes me wonder what Durant would look like playing along side Jordan.

Could Pippen lead a team on his own?

tredigs
11-13-2010, 07:35 PM
This was a tough decision. Probably the best all-round defensive team in the re-draft going against the best perimeter offense in the re-draft. There is no denying, the Knicks' bench offers more and better options which could play decisive roles during this matchup. Both Kobe and Durant need the ball in their hands and Scottie is capable of shutting one of them down. That's key in my opinion, so I went with the well-assembled Boston Celtics.

That's actually not true. In OKC's offense, Durant is primarily an off the ball player. His scoring is predicated on the high screen and pop shot. If that isn't there, then he starts attacking himself. But it's not the #1 or desired option for them (unless he's trying to get to the line, which he does as well as anyone in the games history at this point).

KnicksorBust asked me for my opinion on the team/writeup, and I do have to say that I like his much more. He laid out the top 3 yr statistics of his players (which is nice not to have to look up), and went against the - in my opinion, flawed - formula of directly comparing each player to the other. Basketball is a team sport, and it's important to understand what kind of synergy they would have together if this were a real series. The Knicks GM correctly pointed out that the Lakers would be incredibly thin at center. Howard is a player who gets into foul trouble quite often, and when you're asking Shawn -the human skeletor - Bradley to be the man to step in for Dwight, you're going to have some major issues in a series.

I love the Celtics teams length in the block and know that would offer a huge hurdle for the Knicks, but NY doesn't have a shortage of voracious rebounders between Unseld and Lucas. As Rodman, Wallace, and Wes Unseld before them have proved, being an effective "big" doesn't always mean being a big big.

All in all, I think it could be a really interesting series, but I'm taking the Knicks squad: Far and away the team with the better scorers/closers, solid enough top to bottom defensively, more likely synergy and a deeper bench. Beyond that, I do think it's a more convincing writeup, and that should be given nearly as much weight as the squads in a fantasy-world contest.

Mile High Champ
11-13-2010, 08:17 PM
I shudder at the thought of a Laker and Celtics final in this.

You are simply shuddering the thought me making the final..:rolleyes:

nyanks79
11-13-2010, 10:45 PM
Each team had advantages and different spots. Kobe is the best player in the matchup, so I went Knicks.

KnicksorBust
11-14-2010, 01:29 AM
Bump. Let's keep the votes coming!

John Walls Era
11-14-2010, 01:42 AM
Durant + Kobe combo was very smart. I wish I snagged Durant.

KnicksorBust
11-14-2010, 07:37 PM
Bump. Less than 24 hours. Let's keep the votes coming!

KnicksorBust
11-15-2010, 10:58 AM
Not looking good. :laugh:

Mile High Champ
11-15-2010, 11:14 AM
I am liking this match-up right about now..

Ebbs
11-15-2010, 12:27 PM
You are simply shuddering the thought me making the final..:rolleyes:

Lol it has nothing to do with it...

I just think both teams are way overhyped.

Mile High Champ
11-15-2010, 01:31 PM
Lol it has nothing to do with it...

I just think both teams are way overhyped.

Right, apparently my team was overhyped enough to lose to the 8th seeded heat.. :rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
11-15-2010, 01:40 PM
The Celtics defense here, along with their PG advantage, are enough for me. People forget how good and versatile Penny was obviously. Kobe would have the advantage, but not easily. The Knicks depth is far better, but I have to give the defensive ability, and the toughness to the Celtic's. The Celtics starters would need to play huge minutes at the forward/center spot, but I think the C's win in 6 here. I think the only way the Knicks win this series is if their perimeter players long 2's fall at a huge clip. Not against that defense though.

KnicksorBust
11-15-2010, 03:27 PM
Ahh I thought I had a shot down by only 1 last night. You swept the votes today. I would have loved to go back to back NFL Redraft Championship win right into All-Time NBA Champ but it wasn't in the cards. Oh well. :) Good matchup.

Ebbs
11-15-2010, 03:40 PM
Right, apparently my team was overhyped enough to lose to the 8th seeded heat.. :rolleyes:

Yea its clear I don't like this team at all. . . It's got nothing to do with you as a poster though. I voted for your magic every round in the mock.

Mile High Champ
11-15-2010, 04:53 PM
Ahh I thought I had a shot down by only 1 last night. You swept the votes today. I would have loved to go back to back NFL Redraft Championship win right into All-Time NBA Champ but it wasn't in the cards. Oh well. :) Good matchup.

Thank you, you did give me a scare and I plan on taking a slightly different approach to my match-up against the Warriors.. Great job!

Cheers