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View Full Version : Who would you rather have for the next 5 plus,Dustin Pedroia or Robinson Cano?



metsfan4ever
11-11-2010, 12:41 PM
Like the title says who would rather have on your team for the 5 and over,

To me is cano, I might be a bias lil cause cano is the only yankee I liked and the only that will, cause we from the same place in dominican republic.

Gunzito22
11-11-2010, 12:45 PM
on my team? Cano.

In my bed? Pedroia...

- Jon Miller & Joe Morgan

Rivera
11-11-2010, 12:50 PM
pedroia

Mile High Champ
11-11-2010, 12:56 PM
Pedroia and it's an easy call.

DieHardColtsfan
11-11-2010, 12:58 PM
Hands down Cano.

todu82
11-11-2010, 01:00 PM
Cano

The_Mac22
11-11-2010, 02:26 PM
Cano

RedSox>Yankees
11-11-2010, 02:52 PM
Pedroia, much more likeable as a person. Not saying this because I'm a Sox fan.

papipapsmanny
11-11-2010, 04:34 PM
pedroia because he is a solid bet to be a 5-6 WAR player year in and year out.

Cano reminds me of Beltre (offensively to a degree) his success is going to hinge on his contact rates.

Rylinkus
11-11-2010, 05:45 PM
pedroia because he is a solid bet to be a 5-6 WAR player year in and year out.

Cano reminds me of Beltre (offensively to a degree) his success is going to hinge on his contact rates.

If I were a Sox fan, Pedroia. Anyone else, Cano. Pedroia seems to really up his worth by using the Monster in Fenway. Without that I can't imagine his value isn't as high.

hugepatsfan
11-11-2010, 05:52 PM
Cano had a .381 OBP this year (higher than Pedroia has ever had in is career, though only by .001). That was a result of a 8.2% walk rate, a healthy improvement over his previous career high of 5.8%. If Cano can prove this to be a sign of things to come, I'll take him. But I need another year (or two) to see if it's not just an outlier.

I also think that the type of hitter both players are needs to be considered. Pedrois is more of a "table setter" hitter and Cano is more of a run producer. Give me the run producer every time. Although Pedroia is not your typical 2 hole hitter - he's got a bit if pop. He's never hit 20 before, but he looked to be heading there this year. Just like w/ Cano's walk rates, I want to see more before I determine if its the start of a trend or just an outlier.

If I have a choice for the next 5 years, I'll probably go Cano. He showed increased power this year and improved defense. I think he can still grow, especially offensively. Now that he has become a legitimate "slugger" and the centeriece of the Yankee lineup, I expect the walk rates to keep trending upwards (pitchers will more and more start to pitch around him). Combine that with his awesome ability to hit for average (he may be the best average hitter in baseball) and his OBP should stay high. That was the one thing that held Cano back from offensive greatness early in his career. Defenisvely, Pedroia is clearly better, but Cano does make up for a lot of his defensive deficiencies w/ maybe the best 2B arm in baseball. He's an asset in turning the double play above most other 2nd basemen in the game (Pedroia included).

papipapsmanny
11-11-2010, 07:06 PM
If I were a Sox fan, Pedroia. Anyone else, Cano. Pedroia seems to really up his worth by using the Monster in Fenway. Without that I can't imagine his value isn't as high.

I mean u say that, but career wise pedroia has been better, and in terms of WAR was right on pace with Cano until being injured, actually at his pace before he got injured he would have ended up with a higher WAR then Cano, going purely on the pace he was on.

Amd I too assume Beltre is as good as Ryan Zimmerman now, because of this past year?

I would like to wait and see

hugepatsfan
11-11-2010, 07:16 PM
I mean u say that, but career wise pedroia has been better, and in terms of WAR was right on pace with Cano until being injured, actually at his pace before he got injured he would have ended up with a higher WAR then Cano, going purely on the pace he was on.

Amd I too assume Beltre is as good as Ryan Zimmerman now, because of this past year?

I would like to wait and see

The question who do you want for the next 5 years, not the last 5 years. So you need to make an educated guess as to whether Cano will continue to play up to this year or not. It's not a yes or no answer because there is projection involved.

papipapsmanny
11-11-2010, 07:33 PM
The question who do you want for the next 5 years, not the last 5 years. So you need to make an educated guess as to whether Cano will continue to play up to this year or not. It's not a yes or no answer because there is projection involved.

Ok, then I would take pedroia and I would not have to think about it much, a much better bet to be more successful over the next 5 years

Pedroia has a career Walk % of 8.7% and the past 2 years his walk rate have been over 10%

Cano has a career walk % of 5% his highest being this year 8%

Pedroia is superior defensively according the stats available and not even close

Pedroia has a career wOBA of .366, Cano has a career wOBA of .356

In 894 Games played Cano has a career WAR of 18.7

In 556 Games played Pedroia has a career WAR of 17.9

Pedroia is a much better base runner

And Pedroia is about a year younger

So yea going on a pretty educated guess I am taking Pedroia

yankeefan54
11-11-2010, 07:54 PM
Ok, then I would take pedroia and I would not have to think about it much, a much better bet to be more successful over the next 5 years

Pedroia has a career Walk % of 8.7% and the past 2 years his walk rate have been over 10%

Cano has a career walk % of 5% his highest being this year 8%

Pedroia is superior defensively according the stats available and not even close

Pedroia has a career wOBA of .366, Cano has a career wOBA of .356

In 894 Games played Cano has a career WAR of 18.7

In 556 Games played Pedroia has a career WAR of 17.9

Pedroia is a much better base runner

And Pedroia is about a year younger

So yea going on a pretty educated guess I am taking Pedroia

This reminds me of Derek jeter vs nomar years ago i think pedroia will be as good or better for a few years then eventually dustin will break down and cano will be superior for a longer overall period of time.

papipapsmanny
11-11-2010, 10:09 PM
This reminds me of Derek jeter vs nomar years ago i think pedroia will be as good or better for a few years then eventually dustin will break down and cano will be superior for a longer overall period of time.

Nomar was the superior players in their primes, until nomar was succumbed by injuries

You are thinking that will happen more like hoping it will happen

Rylinkus
11-12-2010, 01:15 PM
I mean u say that, but career wise pedroia has been better, and in terms of WAR was right on pace with Cano until being injured, actually at his pace before he got injured he would have ended up with a higher WAR then Cano, going purely on the pace he was on.

Amd I too assume Beltre is as good as Ryan Zimmerman now, because of this past year?

I would like to wait and see

But bare in mind that some of his value is directly linked to the stadium aiding the type of hitter he is. If he weren't at Fenway, his offensive stats would most likely be lower, and thusly his value (WAR)

cambovenzi
11-12-2010, 06:05 PM
I would take cano, b/c i think he is the better player.

6.4 WAR to pedroia's 3.3 this past season.

papipapsmanny
11-12-2010, 06:12 PM
I would take cano, b/c i think he is the better player.

6.4 WAR to pedroia's 3.3 this past season.

ever give any thought that pedroia playing in only 75 games had something to do with that 3.3 WAR??

cambovenzi
11-12-2010, 07:49 PM
eh i overlooked that somehow :o


Cano is still the guy who is doing better currently.

Higher wOBA and a monster year.

Gigantes4Life
11-12-2010, 10:17 PM
This reminds me of Derek jeter vs nomar years ago i think pedroia will be as good or better for a few years then eventually dustin will break down and cano will be superior for a longer overall period of time.

Why? Just because?

ShinobiNYC
11-13-2010, 01:33 PM
Why? Just because?

His style of play mainly...Pedroia goes out and hustles everything(hence more injury-risky)...Cano is a more flashy type of player.

Overall I think Cano is a better player...when he wants to show it(like in 2010). Like someone said I wanna see Cano replicate this to be a believer.

papipapsmanny
11-13-2010, 01:44 PM
strictly speaking right now because he needs to repeat it first.

I see (offensively) Cano as an Adrian Beltre

And I see Pedroia as a Craig Biggio, but not as fast

yankeefan54
11-13-2010, 04:22 PM
strictly speaking right now because he needs to repeat it first.

I see (offensively) Cano as an Adrian Beltre

And I see Pedroia as a Craig Biggio, but not as fast

how? I can see the biggio vs pedroia but beltre vs cano i dont get it at all

papipapsmanny
11-13-2010, 04:45 PM
The fact that Cano's offensive success will mainly hinge on his contact rates being very good.

like if Cano hit .280, he would likely have an OBP under .340, and he isnt a guy who is going to consistently hit 30 or more homeruns.

Right now for their careers Cano has better contact rates, and Beltre better walk rates (although that isn't saying much)

This is why it is a wait and see approach for me, and the reason why I think it is likely for pedroia to me more consistent

hugepatsfan
11-13-2010, 06:26 PM
The fact that Cano's offensive success will mainly hinge on his contact rates being very good.

like if Cano hit .280, he would likely have an OBP under .340, and he isnt a guy who is going to consistently hit 30 or more homeruns.

Right now for their careers Cano has better contact rates, and Beltre better walk rates (although that isn't saying much)

This is why it is a wait and see approach for me, and the reason why I think it is likely for pedroia to me more consistent

Your right about the average. But Cano has hit at least 297 in all but one of his season (which was a clear outlier). Talking about Cano if he hit 280 doesn't make sense because he has proven that he is not a 280 hitter. His walk rates improved by about 3% this year. As he becomes more of a power threat and the centerpiece of the Yankee lineup, I think it's fair to predict that they will probably grow a bit more. He has already started to become a guy teams pitch around.

And Cano was always thought to have the ability to grow to a 30 HR hitter. I remember the stories in 2007 that if A-Rod opted out Cano would replace him as the 3B and power hitter. Cano to me looks like a guy who will always be around 30 moving forward, give or take a few each year.

I understand what you're saying about Beltre, but Cano has already proven to be a much better average hitter. Beltre is a career 275 hitter. He has hit under 270 in 7 of his 12 big league seasons and only hit over 300 twice (both in what appear to be outlier seasons during contract years). He isn't comparable to Cano as an average hitter at all. I do understand your point, but Beltre is a terrible example to use for Cano.

Career Stats Comparison:
Career OPS +: Cano = 117, Beltre = 108
OPS: Cano = 836, Beltre = 791
SLG %: Cano = 489, Beltre = 469
OBP: Cano = 347, Beltre = 328
BA: Cano = 309, Beltre = 275
wOBA: Cano = 356, Beltre = 339
* Offensive WAR: Cano = 21 in 6 seasons (3.5 per year), Beltre = 32.3 in 12 seasons (2.691667 per year)

*Beltre actually has that # of Offensive WAR in 13 seasons, but I only counted full years. He played 77 games as a rookie w/ a 0 Offensive WAR. I only wanted to include full years though. (Cano has no partial years to ignore.)

So in conclusion: Never say that Cano reminds you of Beltre offensively. That's a huge discredit to his offensive production. Cano is superior to Beltre in ever way at the plate w/ a bat in his hands.

And I do agree with you that Pedroia is the much safer bet moving forward. But Cano is still like a prospect in that he has upside to project. So while Pedroia has been better so far, Cano still has the potential to be better over the next 5 years. The question of who you want is more interpretive than factual. It involves more projecting of what Cano will become than it does evaluating past stats.

North Country
11-16-2010, 10:54 PM
But bare in mind that some of his value is directly linked to the stadium aiding the type of hitter he is. If he weren't at Fenway, his offensive stats would most likely be lower, and thusly his value (WAR)

Cano hits in the most friendly hitting ballpark in the majors for a lefty power hitter. He's always hit better on the road in is career, but there's a good chance his home numbers would be worse if he didn't get the benefit of hitting in the new Yankee Stadium.

North Country
11-16-2010, 11:03 PM
Pedroia. He's younger, he's more consistent, he's better on defense, he steals 20 bags a year and he leads in OBP which is more important than slugging. Besides, he had a better WAR than Cano before he got hurt this year and this was a career year for Cano.

With Pedroia, you know you're getting a 5-6+ WAR player year in and year out. With Cano, you simply don't know. He's been a 5 WAR guy once in his career and you can't count on him to hit or field consistently over the course of a full season.

North Country
11-17-2010, 12:27 AM
The only reason this is even up for debate is because Pedroia was hurt last year and Cano had the best year of his career. Cano had a 6.4 WAR this year, but if you adjusted Pedroia's WAR for the amount of games Cano played this year, it would have been 7.0. Here's their WAR figures since 2007. Keep in mind that Pedroia's a year younger... or don't. The WAR numbers speak for themselves.

2007
Cano - 4.7
Pedroia - 3.8

2008
Cano - 0.2
Pedroia - 6.6

2009
Cano - 4.4
Pedroia - 5.0

2010
Cano - 6.3 (he played in 160 games)
Pedroia - 7.0 per 160 games

The typical MLB hitter's prime is 27-34. I can't wait to see how much Pedroia blows Cano away once he reaches that.

hugepatsfan
11-17-2010, 09:21 PM
Cano hits in the most friendly hitting ballpark in the majors for a lefty power hitter. He's always hit better on the road in is career, but there's a good chance his home numbers would be worse if he didn't get the benefit of hitting in the new Yankee Stadium.

Cano at home in 2010: .298/.360/.521
Cano on the road in 2010: .341/.401/.546

His spilts were greatly better at home in 2009 though.

I agree that he benefits from playing in Yankee stadium. Yankee stadium is perfect for him - short porch in right and big gap in left (he has great gap power to left field). But he is a great hitter on the road too.

Dustin Pedroia career home stats: .324/.386/.500
Road: .285/.353/.420

On the road, Pedroia has 61 doubles 1092 ABs. At home - 108 2Bs in 10988 ABs. His BABIP at home is .332 at home, but only .289. His HRs are qual though, which goes against all of his other splits. It's very odd.

I think that these spilts show that Pedroia greatly relies on Fenway for his #s. Many of his doubles at home are fly outs on the road. He relies on the wall for a lot of hits. That explains why his BABIP is higher at home - he uses the wall for a lot of hits that would otherwise be outs. He SLG% is very meh on the road. Outside of Fenway, Pedroia is nothing all that special to this point in his career.



And let me be clear - I think that Pedroia is the better player. But the Sox fans in here are being ridiculous. One compared Pedroia to a potential HOFer (Biggio) and Cano to a greatly inferior player (Beltre). If you're not going to make accurate comparisons for both, don't bother. Then you're just being biased to prove your point. And to talk about Cano benefiting from YS is ridiculous - look at Pedy's splits.

metsjetsfan
11-21-2010, 12:41 PM
cano, both are studs but cano is jus dirty n makes everything look so easy

EAGLES3658
11-21-2010, 03:02 PM
Pedroia. He's younger, he's more consistent, he's better on defense, he steals 20 bags a year and he leads in OBP which is more important than slugging. Besides, he had a better WAR than Cano before he got hurt this year and this was a career year for Cano.

With Pedroia, you know you're getting a 5-6+ WAR player year in and year out. With Cano, you simply don't know. He's been a 5 WAR guy once in his career and you can't count on him to hit or field consistently over the course of a full season.

Actually its the complete opposite of that. Cano's splits are very very similar. Pedroia is the one who benefits from the green monster.

Matt-the-great
11-21-2010, 09:01 PM
Nice Comp...usually a Yankee-Red Sox comp would be diluted with the jaded rivalry element, but this is actually a very legitimate comparison.

Off to FanGraphs I go to research!

Pedroia: - 26 years old

-I see him as a .290/.370/.470 batter over the next 5 seasons; that is about a .370 wOBA.

-He is conservatively a +5 to +8 Fielder at 2B.

-That is about 5 WAR over a season I think.

*I will say (assuming health for this exercise); Pedroia should be in the 4.5-6.0 WAR range over the next 5 years.

*Let us say: 6, 5.5, 5.5, 5, 4.5 = 26.5 WAR

Cano: - 27 years old

-Cano hit the cover off the ball this season. I would say he is a .310/.360/.510 hitter over the next 5 years. That is about a .375 wOBA i think.

-I see him as about average at 2B, maybe a few runs below. We will say in the 0 to -4 range.

-That is like 4.5 WAR per season.

*(assuming health again) He should be in the 4-5.5 WAR range over the next 5 seasons.

*if we go: 5.5,5,5,4.5,4 = 24 WAR


---->This is of course just me estimating with the help of FanGraphs stats and what I have learned over the past 2 years via the internet; I have no real ability or talent in projection.

---->They are both Elite Players in my view and could end up producing anywhere between 18 and 30 WAR over the next 5 years depending on how they develop and their health...it is impossible to tell really.


~~The real decider may have to be their contracts...~~

Cano makes $39 Million over the next 3 seasons assuming his club options are picked up, and then would hit a big Free-Agent pay-off or re-sign.

Pedroia makes only $44.5 Million over the next 5 seasons; that is a freaking bargain to the extreme.


I choose Pedroia!!!!! and sorry for wasting your time if you read this

North Country
11-22-2010, 12:32 PM
Actually its the complete opposite of that. Cano's splits are very very similar. Pedroia is the one who benefits from the green monster.

There's something to be said for a player who takes advantage of a park favorable to them compared to a player who has a park built for his swing and hits better on the road. Yankee Stadium is the perfect park for Robinson Cano, and his HR numbers have jumped considerably since he's played in the new park. But Cano has always struggled to hit at home. Who knows how much uglier his home numbers would be without the benefit of Yankee Stadium?

Perhaps Cano simply struggles in the spotlight. His home numbers have always been worse than his numbers on the road. His playoff numbers have always been worse than his career numbers. And over his career, his OPS with RISP is .165 points lower than his numbers with the bases empty.

North Country
11-22-2010, 12:36 PM
Cano's been highly inconsistent over his career. He's gonna have to do it for more than one year before I believe last year is the real Cano. Pedroia's been a 5+ WAR player 3 of the last 4 years, with the exception of last year when he was hurt. And last year, he was on pace for a WAR of 7. And Pedroia's the younger player to top it all off. Cano doesn't have the numbers to compare to that at this point in his career.

Rylinkus
11-22-2010, 03:15 PM
Cano's been highly inconsistent over his career. He's gonna have to do it for more than one year before I believe last year is the real Cano. Pedroia's been a 5+ WAR player 3 of the last 4 years, with the exception of last year when he was hurt. And last year, he was on pace for a WAR of 7. And Pedroia's the younger player to top it all off. Cano doesn't have the numbers to compare to that at this point in his career.

But a lot of that value is inherantly linked to his offensive production, which is linked to him using the Monster in Fenway. If I'm in Boston, I want Pedroia. He is incredibly adept at hitting flyballs off the Green Monster. But outside of Fenway he's a much more mediocre offensive player. So if I were the Royals, I might take Cano. (Contracts aside)

yankeefan54
11-22-2010, 08:29 PM
There's something to be said for a player who takes advantage of a park favorable to them compared to a player who has a park built for his swing and hits better on the road. Yankee Stadium is the perfect park for Robinson Cano, and his HR numbers have jumped considerably since he's played in the new park. But Cano has always struggled to hit at home. Who knows how much uglier his home numbers would be without the benefit of Yankee Stadium?

Perhaps Cano simply struggles in the spotlight. His home numbers have always been worse than his numbers on the road. His playoff numbers have always been worse than his career numbers. And over his career, his OPS with RISP is .165 points lower than his numbers with the bases empty.

um did you watch cano in the playoffs this year? cough cough homer

Matt-the-great
11-22-2010, 09:43 PM
um did you watch cano in the playoffs this year? cough cough homer

hahaha, yes you are a homer. At least you accept it.

EAGLES3658
11-23-2010, 09:06 PM
There's something to be said for a player who takes advantage of a park favorable to them compared to a player who has a park built for his swing and hits better on the road. Yankee Stadium is the perfect park for Robinson Cano, and his HR numbers have jumped considerably since he's played in the new park. But Cano has always struggled to hit at home. Who knows how much uglier his home numbers would be without the benefit of Yankee Stadium?

Perhaps Cano simply struggles in the spotlight. His home numbers have always been worse than his numbers on the road. His playoff numbers have always been worse than his career numbers. And over his career, his OPS with RISP is .165 points lower than his numbers with the bases empty.

16 HR's at home to 13 on the road?

avrpatsfan
11-24-2010, 08:49 PM
Pedroia is perfect for the Red Sox IMO so Pedroia but for other teams I'd choose Cano.

No Fun League
11-24-2010, 10:28 PM
Should be Cano/Pedroia/Utley, who would you want on your team?

GW3 all day
11-26-2010, 10:58 PM
Being a Sox fan, this is real tough, but, I would pick Cano as a guy for the next five years. If Cano improves his defense to where Pedroia's is, I would say that he is the best 2B in the MLB.

Metsfan98
12-01-2010, 08:13 AM
I would rather have Pedroia i think he can put up big numbers for team would have last season but leg injury took him out.