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View Full Version : The Cavaliers have the most productive bench in the league



Kiss Ma Grits
11-10-2010, 09:01 AM
Cleveland's bench scored 52 points last night and has been outscoring opposing benchs by large margins. Daniel Gibson and Ramon Sessions are averaging an combined 25 points and with Jamison finally healthy the three could average around 35 to 40 a game.

Sox72
11-10-2010, 09:22 AM
Maybe that team was put together better than I thought. Maybe their lack of championships did have something to do with LeBron.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-10-2010, 09:56 AM
They sure seem more productive without you know who that's for sure

cambovenzi
11-10-2010, 11:01 AM
No lebron to ballhog.
Bench players step up.
nice.

D1JM
11-10-2010, 11:02 AM
I've always said that the cavs had a good enough team, it's just lebron doesn't know how to win when it really counts. Somehow he believed he was entitled to win a championship.

tr4shb0t
11-10-2010, 11:18 AM
They have tons of talent. They did have the best record last 2 years.

godolphins
11-10-2010, 11:22 AM
Why do every cavalier thread has to be in the Nba forum? Is it out of symphaty?

Kiss Ma Grits
11-10-2010, 11:27 AM
Why do every cavalier thread has to be in the Nba forum? Is it out of symphaty?

out of sympathy? Like players or aspects of other teams are being discussed on here:rolleyes:

cambovenzi
11-10-2010, 11:28 AM
Why do every cavalier thread has to be in the Nba forum? Is it out of symphaty?

"most productive bench in the league" is relevant to more than just cavs fans.

Byronicle
11-10-2010, 11:42 AM
Why do every cavalier thread has to be in the Nba forum? Is it out of symphaty?

why does every miami thread have to be in the Nba forum? Is it just for boasting about their acquirements? or for every loss they get? or for whenever one of the big 3 is not producing well i.e. Chris Bosh? or when the team cant decide whether Lebron or Wade is "the man"? or when we question if Erik Spoelstra can really coach? or is it because....

Byronicle
11-10-2010, 11:45 AM
Cleveland's bench scored 52 points last night and has been outscoring opposing benchs by large margins. Daniel Gibson and Ramon Sessions are averaging an combined 25 points and with Jamison finally healthy the three could average around 35 to 40 a game.

I never understood why people thought the players around him were not good enough, i mean they got Jamison a 18-20 ppg/7-9 rbounder and Iggy for cheap and Mo.Williams who was a 15 ppg, and Hickson who was up and coming, and Shaq who is what 10 ppg and 8 rbg? and Varejao the most underrated flopper

prodigy
11-10-2010, 11:52 AM
The bench has scored over 50 a few times this season.

Boobie Gibson has been insane.

mavwar53
11-10-2010, 12:39 PM
Well, I'll just ask this question, how productive are their starters? Shouldn't Jamison be starting at SF over Moon and Gibson over parker? If this was the case then their bench would not be as productive. And bench productions is not just pts, maybe we should judge them by %'s, offense and defense.

Not saying this isn't a good sign for them just trying to point out some things that are leading to this "league leading bench production".

Jaji
11-10-2010, 12:47 PM
Well they do have twelve 6th men. I guess everyone is playing their role well :shrug:.

shep33
11-10-2010, 12:51 PM
Honestly now, people say Lebron had zero help. They have good young pieces on the team, guys that want to play D, and great shooters. They put a terrific team around Lebron, and in reality its extremely unfair to say that he didn't have any help.

Everybody was like Cleveland is gonna win 10 games or something like that this year... well guess what they're 4-3 and have 3 wins on the road. So far, we can see that this team isn't just a bunch of rejects, which till this point disproves the "Lebron had no help" hypothesis. Although the team was built around the strengths of Lebron, a team doesn't win 60+ games based on 1 player alone.

Big Quett
11-10-2010, 01:15 PM
Well, I'll just ask this question, how productive are their starters? Shouldn't Jamison be starting at SF over Moon and Gibson over parker? If this was the case then their bench would not be as productive. And bench productions is not just pts, maybe we should judge them by %'s, offense and defense.

Not saying this isn't a good sign for them just trying to point out some things that are leading to this "league leading bench production".
Exactly. Maybe its because the starters aren't that good. I mean how many teams could Moon and Parker start on?

Kiss Ma Grits
11-10-2010, 01:27 PM
Are you talking about the SAME Parker who is shooting what.....64% from 3pt range, 48% from the field and averaging 10points per game? That Anthony Parker? weeeell I know a few teams that would start him. And how do you figure that Jamison should start over Moon??? He has to have 2 solid knees to do that because we're a running team now and running is tough on the knees.

Big Quett
11-10-2010, 01:35 PM
Are you talking about the SAME Parker who is shooting what.....64% from 3pt range, 48% from the field and averaging 10points per game? That Anthony Parker? weeeell I know a few teams that would start him. And how do you figure that Jamison should start over Moon??? He has to have 2 solid knees to do that because we're a running team now and running is tough on the knees.

Ok let me rephrase that. How many GOOOOD teams could he start on. And lets not let facts get in the way of a good story. He is shooting 43% from the field. And lets see if he keeps his 3 pt shooting up for the year.

tjlipford
11-10-2010, 01:46 PM
Ok let me rephrase that. How many GOOOOD teams could he start on. And lets not let facts get in the way of a good story. He is shooting 43% from the field. And lets see if he keeps his 3 pt shooting up for the year.


Parker was tops in the league last year in 3 point % and he is shooting well again this year so why wouldn't he keep it up. He's a shooter & he can shoot so why would that change? He may not shoot 50% all year, but he is going to be in the top again IMO.

mavwar53
11-10-2010, 01:53 PM
Are you talking about the SAME Parker who is shooting what.....64% from 3pt range, 48% from the field and averaging 10points per game? That Anthony Parker? weeeell I know a few teams that would start him. And how do you figure that Jamison should start over Moon??? He has to have 2 solid knees to do that because we're a running team now and running is tough on the knees.

If he is shooting so well why isn't he scoring more? Cause he only shoots when he is wide open or he isn't playing starter minutes. Again I'm not trying to discredit the bench just looking at the fact that they are scoring well.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/11/7/pts/1-1

cleveland is 4th in scoring yet 22nd in rebounding 23rd in BLK's and TO's and 14th in FG%. They are 8th in offensive efficiency which is nice

How about giving some credit to NY and PHI

I'd say NY is easily the best bench this year so far with philly not too far behind.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-10-2010, 01:55 PM
Ok let me rephrase that. How many GOOOOD teams could he start on. And lets not let facts get in the way of a good story. He is shooting 43% from the field. And lets see if he keeps his 3 pt shooting up for the year.

Sir you don't get it at all, lets think about this: you think that Boobie should start over Parket so are you saying that at Gibson's size he could DEFEND shoot guards who are the size of parker with much better offensive skill sets??? So you think Gibson has a better chance at defending ray allen then Parker???? And even though Moon may not be as offensively skilled as Jamison one to surely debate that his defense more then makes up for it. Parker started for a 60+ win team so why wouldn't he be a good fit for any other elite teams? Alot of small things that players do on the court aren't translated into STATS and Anderson Verajao is an perfect example of that....

mavwar53
11-10-2010, 02:00 PM
Parker was tops in the league last year in 3 point % and he is shooting well again this year so why wouldn't he keep it up. He's a shooter & he can shoot so why would that change? He may not shoot 50% all year, but he is going to be in the top again IMO.

yes but that is the thing he is shooting 64.7% right now, he will have to shoot much worse for that to drop to under 50%. And he has never shot better than 44% in his career and that was in 06-07. I'd expect him to shoot 40% the rest of the way and end up with a 42% overall 3pt%. Not bad at all but at the same time its nothing to brag about. probably top 8-10 in 3pt%.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-10-2010, 02:01 PM
If he is shooting so well why isn't he scoring more? Cause he only shoots when he is wide open or he isn't playing starter minutes. Again I'm not trying to discredit the bench just looking at the fact that they are scoring well.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/11/7/pts/1-1

cleveland is 4th in scoring yet 22nd in rebounding 23rd in BLK's and TO's and 14th in FG%. They are 8th in offensive efficiency which is nice

How about giving some credit to NY and PHI

I'd say NY is easily the best bench this year so far with philly not too far behind.

Because our team doesn't FOCUS on the talents of one player, we actually play TEAM ball and the Cavs haven't had that kind of ball movement since the era of Mark Price, Daugherty, and Nance. We have 5 count em "5" players averaging double figures...again, we play TEAM ball. Gibson, Williams, Parker, and Jamison can hurt you with their jumpshot but INDIVIDUAL STATS aren't what make players and teams GREAT but I know you'll find that hard to understand so I don't know what else to say to you on the matter.

mavwar53
11-10-2010, 02:19 PM
Sorry you are in denial, Like I said I wasn't bashing the cav's just putting their bench in perspective. Have the cavs beat any good team all year besides boston who lost on a back to back in which they played the heat and wanted to win that game probably more than any other season opener ever. Once they won that game the adrenaline came down and they lost to the cavs that are out to prove that they don't need LBJ. When the cavs finish with 35-38 wins is their bench still gonna be praised by you, or is this cause they are winning? Its a good sign for the cavs but seriously it seems you are talking from the heart a little more than your head. The entire team is playing very well right now, I just can't wait to see how it ends up.

Jamison is one of my favorite players of all time, I hope he goes elsewhere cause for one this team doesn't need him, they need to trade him to a contender to get younger and two he isn't going to win anything there except maybe 6th man.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-10-2010, 02:33 PM
Sorry you are in denial, Like I said I wasn't bashing the cav's just putting their bench in perspective. Have the cavs beat any good team all year besides boston who lost on a back to back in which they played the heat and wanted to win that game probably more than any other season opener ever. Once they won that game the adrenaline came down and they lost to the cavs that are out to prove that they don't need LBJ. When the cavs finish with 35-38 wins is their bench still gonna be praised by you, or is this cause they are winning? Its a good sign for the cavs but seriously it seems you are talking from the heart a little more than your head. The entire team is playing very well right now, I just can't wait to see how it ends up.

Jamison is one of my favorite players of all time, I hope he goes elsewhere cause for one this team doesn't need him, they need to trade him to a contender to get younger and two he isn't going to win anything there except maybe 6th man.

sigh, there they go with the they haven't beaten any good teams lmao. So were we supposed to lose to them??? Oh yeah, you're with the rest of the pundits who figured that one player definites the quality of TEAM. It's like you didn't learn ANYTHING from the butt kicking that team USA lead by Lebron and the other 2 stooges took a few years back when the best they could do is win the bronze medal. Basketball is a TEAM sport not just one player and The Cavs didn't just lose Lebron. They lost West, Illguaskas, AND shaq so if they only win 35 to 38 games it won't be because they LOST LEBRON. If Lebron was as GREAT as you made him out to be then the Heat would be 8-0 like the Lakers. Not it's one thing if you're bench is scoring the same amount as the starters and you're losing. It's a whole other tale if they're winning and right now we're on a 3 game win streak. To consider that a team has beaten nobody is to imply that they're actually not as bad as the team they're playing so I just wanna know if they're a solid team or are they not??? Because you're trying to give their bench and team half credits.

hvg
11-10-2010, 02:45 PM
Lets not discount the impact good coaching has. Byron Scott is an excellent coach and will find a way for his team to be at least mediocre (given the mediocre talent). It would've been something else to see Lebron in a true running offense which few can coach better than Scott.

69centers
11-10-2010, 04:48 PM
Easy now guys. Your last 3 opponents were Philly, Washington, and New Jersey.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-10-2010, 04:54 PM
Easy now guys. Your last 3 opponents were Philly, Washington, and New Jersey.

You know what's funny, when you beat the teams you're supposed to be and you lost to the teams you're supposed to beat you get the same treatment lol. Well can I use injuries to key players as a cop out when your team beats MY team? or are you gonna discredit the talent of the injuried player of my favorite team?

69centers
11-10-2010, 05:04 PM
You know what's funny, when you beat the teams you're supposed to be and you lost to the teams you're supposed to beat you get the same treatment lol. Well can I use injuries to key players as a cop out when your team beats MY team? or are you gonna discredit the talent of the injuried player of my favorite team?

No, you are overanalyzing here. Your team's bench put up big numbers because the 3 teams they played recently have poor benches. It's as easy as that. Nothing else to read into.

JordansBulls
11-10-2010, 05:13 PM
This is why they had the highest SRS rating the last 2 years and the best record.

Ty Fast
11-10-2010, 05:25 PM
They have tons of talent. They did have the best record last 2 years.

ya, but most of that talent went to south beach in the offseason.

rhaas74
11-10-2010, 05:44 PM
Well, I'll just ask this question, how productive are their starters? Shouldn't Jamison be starting at SF over Moon and Gibson over parker? If this was the case then their bench would not be as productive. And bench productions is not just pts, maybe we should judge them by %'s, offense and defense.

Not saying this isn't a good sign for them just trying to point out some things that are leading to this "league leading bench production".

If you know anything about basketball you could easily see that Jamison is not a SF at this point in his career. Sure he can hit the deep shot, but he can't defend at the SF, he is too slow.

And for Boobie, he is too small to play the SG. He has the prototypical size of a PG, so asking him to guard someone 3-4" taller than him would end in disaster.

godolphins
11-10-2010, 10:15 PM
Why do every cavalier thread has to be in the Nba forum? Is it out of symphaty? Basically it's like being nice to the fat girl

FetusSmasher
11-10-2010, 10:21 PM
Lebron should have just stayed in cleveland.

godolphins
11-10-2010, 10:30 PM
Lebron should have just stayed in cleveland.
For what? To be regular season champions

FetusSmasher
11-10-2010, 10:34 PM
What money will MIAMI have to do upgrades in um lets say the next 3 yrs.

Consider this new cap plan they are trying to do too before you answer.

godolphins
11-10-2010, 10:50 PM
What money will MIAMI have to do upgrades in um lets say the next 3 yrs. Consider this new cap plan they are trying to do too before you answer.
I seriously don't think that the owners will try to get rid of the MLE and the veteran minimum, at least 65% of the teams are over the cap, why would they want to try to get rid of it and not be able to sign any players.

FetusSmasher
11-10-2010, 10:51 PM
Lockout here we come.

Rafer17
11-10-2010, 11:47 PM
Having a productive bench doesn't help that much when your starters aren't productive.

I'm happy for Cleveland, but I doubt they will keep this all season

Rafer17
11-10-2010, 11:50 PM
Having a productive bench doesn't help that much when your starters aren't productive.

I'm happy for Cleveland, but I doubt they will keep this up all season

Public Enemy #1
11-11-2010, 01:28 AM
Nope, its a fluke. Cavs aren't a good team. They have been overrated the last 2 years. Sorry to break the news, but I'm laughing when I read and hear about JJ Hickson leading the Cavs to the playoffs. Williams and Jamison are role players at best. Their bench? Had one good night. Should we make a thread about the Pacers cause they scored 52 points in the third quarter vs Denver? Is Mike Dunleavy the best 3 point shooter in the league cause he made like 7? Nah :laugh:

Public Enemy #1
11-11-2010, 01:29 AM
Optimism is great, but the Cavs aren't a good team and if by some miracle they make it to the playoffs, I'm seeing a first round exit sweep. No offense to you Cavs fans... :D

cambovenzi
11-11-2010, 02:27 AM
I think its possible they make the playoffs.
They are in the east after all.