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View Full Version : Who do you take in their prime? Jason Kidd or Steve Nash?



m26555
11-07-2010, 01:50 PM
I'd take Kidd because of his defense and rebounding ability. I also think he was a *bit* better at running the fast break than Nash.

JordansBulls
11-27-2010, 05:15 PM
Prefer Kidd

I'm Seriously
12-01-2010, 12:11 PM
Nash. Kidd to me just never had the impact Nash did.

ShockerArt
12-01-2010, 12:49 PM
Kidd pretty easily for me.

Lakersfan2483
12-01-2010, 11:18 PM
I would take Jason Kidd over Nash as he is a much better defender and impacts the game on both ends.

Lakersfan2483
12-01-2010, 11:19 PM
Nash. Kidd to me just never had the impact Nash did.

Kidd led his team to the finals 2 straight years. He has been just as impactful as Nash in his career and even more impactful on defense.

hugepatsfan
12-02-2010, 02:26 AM
The guy who is an asset at all times, not just half of the game.

Raph12
12-02-2010, 04:33 AM
Kidd... Easily.

Duncan = Donkey
12-02-2010, 08:28 AM
Nash.......easily.

If it was a Bashing your wife contest, kidd hands down.

I'm Seriously
12-02-2010, 09:36 AM
Kidd led his team to the finals 2 straight years. He has been just as impactful as Nash in his career and even more impactful on defense.

So, your saying because Kidd's been to the finals twice in the atrocious eastern conference, while never beating a more impressive team than who Nash has beat he's better?

That's just stupid.

And I hope your not implying that Kidd was just as impactful as Nash on offense, that's a joke.

Disregarding the fact that Nash is a far superior shooter, and scorer, throughout the entire decade he has led the best, or second best offense in the league. And Peak Nash led the second greatest offense dynasty ever.

Now obviously Kidd has a much better defensive impact, but like the Nash Rondo argument, I simply value Nash's offensive impact, more than Kidd's defensive/rebounding impact.

Ebbs
12-02-2010, 01:24 PM
It would totally depend on the rest of my team.

jackdawson
12-02-2010, 03:20 PM
Nash is my personal favorite. Can't go wrong either way.

goose15
12-02-2010, 07:06 PM
very very close...

I'll take Nash

ChiSox219
12-02-2010, 07:15 PM
Kidd and I think this one is clear cut.

I think offensively it's very close but if you factor in defense Kidd takes the cake.

todu82
12-02-2010, 07:49 PM
Jason Kidd

I'm Seriously
12-02-2010, 10:05 PM
Kidd and I think this one is clear cut.

I think offensively it's very close but if you factor in defense Kidd takes the cake.
:facepalm:

No, not at all.

The only thing I could say Kidd actually did better on offense was post up, you could argue passing, I personally dont believe Kidd was a better passer but it is debatable.

While Nash was a better shooter, scorer, and ran an offense better.

ShockerArt
12-03-2010, 12:43 AM
Kidd was much better on offense than Nash was on defense.

RangersMets
12-03-2010, 03:52 AM
Kidd played significantly better defense imo. As well as being a better rebounder on both sides of the court. Comparable offensive abilities with an edge to Nash. Preference Kidd

I'm Seriously
12-03-2010, 11:41 AM
Kidd was much better on offense than Nash was on defense.

I wouldn't say much better, but seeing as how Kidd is top 5 passer ever he was better on offense than Nash on Defense.

But it goes the other way to, Nash IMO was a better offensive player than Kidd was a defensive player.

Nash is and an underrated offensive player, people dont realize how absurd he is on offense. I mean statistically he's the greatest shooter ever, a top 5 passer ever, fantastic scorer, and the only PG who has ever ran an offense better than him was Magic Johnson.

The Suns this year have proven Nash's offensive genius, look at the Suns roster and tell me they should be the second best offense in the league.

Everyone that was on the 05-07 Suns is gone, yet Nash has countinued to produce and elite offense, it's become clear that as long as Nash has guys who can shoot and finish, you have an elite offense.

And that to me is more valuable than what Kidd gives me, so I'd rather have prime Nash.

I'm Seriously
12-03-2010, 11:46 AM
Kidd played significantly better defense imo. As well as being a better rebounder on both sides of the court. Comparable offensive abilities with an edge to Nash. Preference Kidd

Absolutely not. Kidd is in not a comparable offensive player to Nash, and it's not even close.

rufo4100
12-04-2010, 10:05 PM
Kidd

Durant is hype
12-04-2010, 10:11 PM
Nash!

JordansBulls
12-12-2010, 12:41 AM
Kidd had more impact than Nash for most of his career.

I'm Seriously
12-13-2010, 02:15 AM
Kidd had more impact than Nash for most of his career.

If you mean year by year than Kidd has a slight edge.

Since the've both been in the league Kidd was better from -96/97-03/04, while Nash was better from 04/05-09/10.(Keep in mind Nash is much better than Kidd right now.)

And Nash has Kidd beat in all NBA selections 7 to 6.

So Nash has has just as much longevity as Kidd, if not more.

But I don't see how this is relevant seeing as how the question is about there prime.

JordansBulls
12-13-2010, 09:31 AM
If you mean year by year than Kidd has a slight edge.

Since the've both been in the league Kidd was better from -96/97-03/04, while Nash was better from 04/05-09/10.(Keep in mind Nash is much better than Kidd right now.)

And Nash has Kidd beat in all NBA selections 7 to 6.

So Nash has has just as much longevity as Kidd, if not more.

But I don't see how this is relevant seeing as how the question is about there prime.

Well Nash's prime didnt start until 30 and he wasn't even the best player on his team as Amare was.

Meaze_Gibson
12-13-2010, 09:51 AM
Jason Kidd imo by far. Nash is may not even the best pg from Phoenix (Kevin Johnson) while Kidd is possibly top 5 all time. Kidd took a team with WAYYY less talent to the Finals. Beating teams like the Pistons (1 year before they won it all), Pacers, and other high powered offenses. He lead them because he limited a pgs ability to get in the paint, something Nash couldn't do ever. I'd beg for kidd to have amare, joe johnson, and the matrix in his prime. With his defense, they wouldve def won a chip.

I'm Seriously
12-13-2010, 02:37 PM
Well Nash's prime didnt start until 30 and he wasn't even the best player on his team as Amare was.

In 06 the Suns won 54 games, there ORTG was 111.5(second in the league) and they made just it as far in the playoffs as the year before.

If your team can do all of that without you, clearly your not the best player.

Not to mention when Nash missed games in 05 the Suns were 2-4 and there offense wasn't nearly as good.

So the only case I see for Amare over Nash in 05 is he put better stats, but by that logic Marion was better in 06 than Nash.

I'm Seriously
12-13-2010, 03:05 PM
Jason Kidd imo by far. Nash is may not even the best pg from Phoenix (Kevin Johnson) while Kidd is possibly top 5 all time. Kidd took a team with WAYYY less talent to the Finals. Beating teams like the Pistons (1 year before they won it all), Pacers, and other high powered offenses. He lead them because he limited a pgs ability to get in the paint, something Nash couldn't do ever. I'd beg for kidd to have amare, joe johnson, and the matrix in his prime. With his defense, they wouldve def won a chip.

Kidd has never beaten a team superior to who Nash has beat, so him making it to the finals is an idiotic reason to put him over Nash.

Absolutly not, they would be a better defensive team, but Kidd's not gonna make Amare rebound or play defense. The Suns were so great because of offense, if you replace one of the greatest offensive players ever with Jason Kidd, they wouldn't be nearly as good.

Duncan = Donkey
12-13-2010, 06:16 PM
Well Nash's prime didnt start until 30 and he wasn't even the best player on his team as Amare was.

Where do you get this crazy idea from??? Any Suns fan will tell you Nash was the best player on that team and the most important. And it was evident when Nash missed games or sat on the bench.

Khalifa21
12-13-2010, 10:37 PM
The better defender... Kidd.

JordansBulls
12-14-2010, 01:57 AM
In 06 the Suns won 54 games, there ORTG was 111.5(second in the league) and they made just it as far in the playoffs as the year before.

If your team can do all of that without you, clearly your not the best player.

Not to mention when Nash missed games in 05 the Suns were 2-4 and there offense wasn't nearly as good.

So the only case I see for Amare over Nash in 05 is he put better stats, but by that logic Marion was better in 06 than Nash.

Amare averaged 37 ppg against Duncan in the WCF

Duncan = Donkey
12-14-2010, 02:17 AM
Amare averaged 37 ppg against Duncan in the WCF

So what, does that make him a better player than Steve Nash.

Duncan = Donkey
12-14-2010, 02:39 AM
Well Nash's prime didnt start until 30 and he wasn't even the best player on his team as Amare was.

Also, if Amare was the best player on the team. How come the year before Nash ever came to PHX, why couldnt that team even make the playoffs.

The core was basically the same. Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Barbosa. The only main different guys were Marbury, Hardaway, Voshkul and Casey jacobson.

That team went 29 and 53. 21-40 with Dantoni as Head Coach.

Next season Nash comes into town. They finish with the best record in the league 62-20 and Nash wins the MVP.

Its pretty obvious who is the better player.

Avenged
12-16-2010, 02:47 AM
Kidd took his team to the Finals twice.. I'll take him.

JordansBulls
12-27-2010, 01:57 PM
Kidd took his team to the Finals twice.. I'll take him.

And didn't even have Amare on his team.

Cano4prez
12-27-2010, 05:21 PM
Kidd, better defender, and rebounder.

Duncan = Donkey
12-27-2010, 07:36 PM
Kidd took his team to the Finals twice.. I'll take him.

In a Pathetic Eastern Conference.

I'm Seriously
12-28-2010, 09:00 AM
And didn't even have Amare on his team.

You do know that Nash took the Suns just as far in the playoffs without Amare.

And before Kurt Thomas got injured, the Suns were arguably a better team without Amare.

Hustla23
12-28-2010, 05:24 PM
If we're talking about primes, it's Nash pretty easily.

Nash's offense is so much better than Kidd's, that his overall production outweighs any comparative defensive deficiency. Kidd couldn't score for his life. Being a point guard also entails being able to do something other than strictly pass all the time ala Rondo.

KnicksorBust
12-28-2010, 07:03 PM
If we're talking about primes, it's Nash pretty easily.

Nash's offense is so much better than Kidd's, that his overall production outweighs any comparative defensive deficiency. Kidd couldn't score for his life. Being a point guard also entails being able to do something other than strictly pass all the time ala Rondo.

I'd much rather a pass-first PG who locks down defensively. Give me the Rondos and J-Kidds of the league and watch me keep making it the NBA Finals.

WadeKobe
12-28-2010, 07:19 PM
In a Pathetic Eastern Conference.

You keep saying this, but it doesn't mean anything. "Didn't beat a team superior to the ones Nash beat".... uh, what? He also never played one. So it's simply not a comparison that can be made. It doesn't exist.

The fact is that on offense it actually is close and Kidd actually did run an offense amazingly well. As well as Nash? Hard to say. It was different styles of offense.

Don't get me wrong, Nash is incredible and an amazing offensive talent. However, Kidd is easily top 3 pure passers ever to play the game while Nash might be top 5. Kidd could post up and pass out of the post better than any PG except Magic. Kidd could guard the other point-guard and lock him down OR guard the opposing team's SG because of his size and strength.

His basketball IQ was much higher than Nash's. His court vision was possibly the best ever, right there with Stockton and Magic. His IQ on the defensive and offensive ends was absolutely amazing and his ability to grab rebounds and start fast-breaks was better than anyone but Magic. The guy is simply a top 5 PG all tim with a ceiling of top 3. Nash isn't even top 5.

The fact is that defense wins championships in any and all sports. Kidd was the best defensive point guard of his era, while Nash may be the worst defensive player out of all elite PGs to ever play the game. You add to that Kidd's leadership and playmaking abilities on the offensive end and you simply have to take Kidd over Nash without even batting an eye-lash.

WadeKobe
12-28-2010, 07:19 PM
I'd much rather a pass-first PG who locks down defensively. Give me the Rondos and J-Kidds of the league and watch me keep making it the NBA Finals.

:clap:

I'm Seriously
12-29-2010, 04:01 AM
You keep saying this, but it doesn't mean anything. "Didn't beat a team superior to the ones Nash beat".... uh, what? He also never played one. So it's simply not a comparison that can be made. It doesn't exist.


The fact is that on offense it actually is close and Kidd actually did run an offense amazingly well. As well as Nash? Hard to say. It was different styles of offense. Don't get me wrong, Nash is incredible and an amazing offensive talent. However, Kidd is easily top 3 pure passers ever to play the game while Nash might be top 5. Kidd could post up and pass out of the post better than any PG except Magic. Kidd could guard the other point-guard and lock him down OR guard the opposing team's SG because of his size and strength. His basketball IQ was much higher than Nash's. His court vision was possibly the best ever, right there with Stockton and Magic. His IQ on the defensive and offensive ends was absolutely amazing and his ability to grab rebounds and start fast-breaks was better than anyone but Magic. The guy is simply a top 5 PG all tim with a ceiling of top 3. Nash isn't even top 5.

The fact is that defense wins championships in any and all sports. Kidd was the best defensive point guard of his era, while Nash may be the worst defensive player out of all elite PGs to ever play the game. You add to that Kidd's leadership and playmaking abilities on the offensive end and you simply have to take Kidd over Nash without even batting an eye-lash.

That is true, but several people in this thread have put Prime Kidd over Prime Nash because of that. Which is foolish to me.

Steve Nash and Jason Kidd are absolutly not comparible offense players.

Nash was a much better scorer than Kidd, in another hemisphere as a shooter, and finished much better than Kidd.

Prime Nash ran the second greatest offensive dynasty ever, only behind the Showtime Lakers. While the most Prime Kidd ever did was run an average offense.

And you can't put this on talent alone, in 06 when Nash didn't have that talented of an offensive team he still ran the second best offensive in the league.

And this year where Nash has comparible if not worse offensive talent than Kidd, he's still running the 3rd best offense in the league, much better than anything Kidd has ever managed.

Steve Nash is arguable the second greatest offensive point guard ever, and arguable a top 10 offensive player ever.

There is absolutly no comparison between them on offense.

And to me that means more than Kidds defense/rebounding.

And no way in hell did Kidd have a better offensive IQ, sorry when your as bad a scorer as Kidd was in his Prime, yet you insist on taking 15 shots a game, your not that smart.

:laugh2: at Nash not being a top 5 passer ever, and Kidd being the best passer ever.

All PG's I'd take over Kidd

Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Isiah Thomas
Walt Frazier
John Stockton
Gary Payton
Steve Nash

So no he's not a top 5 PG, and :laugh: at him being top 3.

And Defense may win championships but PG defense doesn't, seriously how many teams have won a championship were there PG was there best defender.

I'm Seriously
12-29-2010, 04:27 AM
I'd much rather a pass-first PG who locks down defensively. Give me the Rondos and J-Kidds of the league and watch me keep making it the NBA Finals.

There are only two PG's who could lock down oposing PG's in the history of the league, them being Gary Payton and Walt Frazier.

Prime Kidd got burnt by smaller quicker guards, and no PG in todays league can lock down oposing PG's

And the past two PG's to win a championship as there teams best player, were both offensive minded.(Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas)

KnicksorBust
12-29-2010, 11:33 AM
There are only two PG's who could lock down oposing PG's in the history of the league, them being Gary Payton and Walt Frazier.

Prime Kidd got burnt by smaller quicker guards, and no PG in todays league can lock down oposing PG's

And the past two PG's to win a championship as there teams best player, were both offensive minded.(Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas)

Quick Hits:
1. If you refuse to acknowledge Rondo/Kidd's all-defensive nods that's just foolish. They both (rondo currently and kidd in his prime) bring so much to the table on the other end of the floor.
2. Isiah Thomas was more than just an "offensive minded" point guard.
3. Don't you find it interesting that your best reference was two players from over 20 years ago? `

I'm Seriously
12-29-2010, 12:38 PM
Quick Hits:
1. If you refuse to acknowledge Rondo/Kidd's all-defensive nods that's just foolish. They both (rondo currently and kidd in his prime) bring so much to the table on the other end of the floor.
2. Isiah Thomas was more than just an "offensive minded" point guard.
3. Don't you find it interesting that your best reference was two players from over 20 years ago? `

1. I never said they weren't great defenders, they simply cant completly lock down oposing PG's.(Ala Payton or Frazier)
2. In your original post you said you'd rather have a PG who could lock oposing PG's down, and were pass first. Isiah Thomas was a good defender, but he could never lock down oposing PG's. And he was a much better offensive player than defensive player.
3. I referenced 20 years back because that was the last time a PG won the championship as there teams best player. Since people around here seem to think PG defense is so important. I thought they should know the last PG's to win the championship, were much better offensive players than definsive players.

WadeKobe
12-31-2010, 02:10 PM
That is true, but several people in this thread have put Prime Kidd over Prime Nash because of that. Which is foolish to me.

Steve Nash and Jason Kidd are absolutly not comparible offense players.

Nash was a much better scorer than Kidd, in another hemisphere as a shooter, and finished much better than Kidd.

Prime Nash ran the second greatest offensive dynasty ever, only behind the Showtime Lakers. While the most Prime Kidd ever did was run an average offense.

And you can't put this on talent alone, in 06 when Nash didn't have that talented of an offensive team he still ran the second best offensive in the league.

And this year where Nash has comparible if not worse offensive talent than Kidd, he's still running the 3rd best offense in the league, much better than anything Kidd has ever managed.

Steve Nash is arguable the second greatest offensive point guard ever, and arguable a top 10 offensive player ever.

There is absolutly no comparison between them on offense.

And to me that means more than Kidds defense/rebounding.

And no way in hell did Kidd have a better offensive IQ, sorry when your as bad a scorer as Kidd was in his Prime, yet you insist on taking 15 shots a game, your not that smart.

:laugh2: at Nash not being a top 5 passer ever, and Kidd being the best passer ever.

All PG's I'd take over Kidd

Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Isiah Thomas
Walt Frazier
John Stockton
Gary Payton
Steve Nash

So no he's not a top 5 PG, and :laugh: at him being top 3.

And Defense may win championships but PG defense doesn't, seriously how many teams have won a championship were there PG was there best defender.

So much ignorance in this post. Sorry. I lost interest in PSD a long time ago for this reason. Don't know why i came back.

I'm Seriously
01-01-2011, 06:46 AM
So much ignorance in this post. Sorry. I lost interest in PSD a long time ago for this reason. Don't know why i came back.

Someone who actually belives Jason Kidd is a comparible offensive player to Steve Nash, calling me ignorant?

:laugh:

KnicksorBust
01-01-2011, 03:00 PM
1. I never said they weren't great defenders, they simply cant completly lock down oposing PG's.(Ala Payton or Frazier)
2. In your original post you said you'd rather have a PG who could lock oposing PG's down, and were pass first. Isiah Thomas was a good defender, but he could never lock down oposing PG's. And he was a much better offensive player than defensive player.
3. I referenced 20 years back because that was the last time a PG won the championship as there teams best player. Since people around here seem to think PG defense is so important. I thought they should know the last PG's to win the championship, were much better offensive players than definsive players.


I see your point. I do. There is no significant advantage with their passing but Nash is such more effecient scorer/shooter that he wins offensively no question. Then defense isn't enough of a difference because Kidd can get burned by a fast PG in the same way that Nash can get burned. So Nash should win out. However, even you admitted Isiah was a good defender. Chauncey Billups was the Pistons best player and he was a good defender. He is another one more in the Jason Kidd mold than Steve Nash. Over the years defense has proven to win in basketball and Nash would be one of the biggest defensive liabilities to ever win a title. I think you have a better chance grabbing 12-8-8 guy who can get steals and play some defense and letting somebody else do your scoring.

I'm Seriously
01-01-2011, 04:16 PM
I see your point. I do. There is no significant advantage with their passing but Nash is such more effecient scorer/shooter that he wins offensively no question. Then defense isn't enough of a difference because Kidd can get burned by a fast PG in the same way that Nash can get burned. So Nash should win out. However, even you admitted Isiah was a good defender. Chauncey Billups was the Pistons best player and he was a good defender. He is another one more in the Jason Kidd mold than Steve Nash. Over the years defense has proven to win in basketball and Nash would be one of the biggest defensive liabilities to ever win a title. I think you have a better chance grabbing 12-8-8 guy who can get steals and play some defense and letting somebody else do your scoring.

Imo, Ben Wallace was the best player on that team.

The 04 Pistons were great because they were a ridicoulus defensive team, who anchored that defense?

Ben Wallace

Defense has been proven to win championships, but PG defense has not.
I don't think there has ever been a team that has won a championship were there PG was there best Defender.

But offensively both Magic and Isiah were there respective teams best offensive player.

Bob Cousy was a worse defender than Nash, but that didn't stop Bill Russell from winning 6 championships with him. And you don't have to go that far either, Tony Parker isn't a much better defender than Nash(if any at all). But that didn't stop the Spurs from winning multiple championships this decade, and routinely being at the top of the league in defense.

And when Nash had a good defensive big, the Suns were a great defensive team. So clearly his lack of defense never hurt them that much.

JordansBulls
01-03-2011, 02:11 PM
So much ignorance in this post. Sorry. I lost interest in PSD a long time ago for this reason. Don't know why i came back.

What do you mean?

Mplsman
01-03-2011, 07:53 PM
Nashmaster.

HeatVsHate
01-06-2011, 04:35 AM
Both are my favorite, loved them play then and now. But if either is given to the heat.. we'll take it open arms! Defense nor age won't matter.

JordansBulls
01-10-2011, 12:00 AM
Both are my favorite, loved them play then and now. But if either is given to the heat.. we'll take it open arms! Defense nor age won't matter.

I take Kidd because he was better from the get go.

GREATNESS ONE
01-12-2011, 04:52 AM
It would totally depend on the rest of my team.

This. They were both studs but it does depend on the rest of my team.


If I picked to build from scratch, I'll take Kidd close, one of the best rebounding defensive PG of our Era

xbrackattackx
01-12-2011, 10:42 PM
So much ignorance in this post. Sorry. I lost interest in PSD a long time ago for this reason. Don't know why i came back.

Dude mad cause he got owned for comparing Kidds Offense to Nash's hahaha.

Anyways.


I am taking Nash.

He can shoot 3's no problem.
Clutch. Not afraid to take the big shot.
He is automatic from the FT Line.
His court vision and passing is great.
He makes his team better on Offense.
Great Leader,Good Role Model. Never beat his Wife.
Is still producing number as good as his prime with no drop-off.
Kidds stats have dropped in every category, Except he can hit the open 3 sometimes now.

sunsfan88
01-23-2011, 09:25 PM
Nash. Too easy.

KnicksorBust
01-23-2011, 10:31 PM
Too easy that's why he's losing the vote. :laugh: Come on man don't act like it's a no brainer. Kidd's an all-time great.

In retrospect, I wonder if we should lower Nash's legacy for not getting to a Finals with JJ - Marion - Amar'e ...

Purch
01-25-2011, 10:53 AM
Lol at the people saying this is an easy decision either way. These are the two best pg's of the 00'S and arguments can and have been made either way.

Personally you can't go wrong with either