PDA

View Full Version : Question about Derrick Rose?



Pages : [1] 2

Missing56&33
11-06-2010, 03:14 PM
I watched the Knicks - Bulls game the other night and I took a good look at DR to gather my own facts and perception of him as a player. I don't see him that much being a Knick fan but what I noticed ......I personally think him playing PG is taking away from his overall game. IMO he is not a top 10 PG. He may be a top 10 player but not a top 10 PG. There is a difference. DR is a combo guard, he is not the best ball handler and he is not good on defense at all. Felton was blowing by him all night and Felton is husky and slow. He has a deceit jump shot but he is a streaky player. As a PG he rarely got a pass for a spot up shot most of his jump shots was off the dribble. He is to good of a scorer to stay at PG. His passing abilities are average at best but if you're a scorer his assist should be down but as a PG he is expected to get high assist ....he should be receiving instead of dishing the basketball. So basically I think he should be a starting SG.

this is why is not considered to be a legitimate MVP candidate. Thoughts????.........BTW that dunk was unbelievable .....as a two guard he could get a lot more of those but he's busy passing the ball to guys like James Johnson and Deng.

Crackadalic
11-06-2010, 03:24 PM
Rose reminds me of dwade where he is a good playmaker but isnt really a point guard he is more of a 2 guard the guy is talented though a superstar in the making imo

ManRam
11-06-2010, 03:26 PM
Can of worms: opened.

He's not a good enough shooter to be a SG. I actually do think he's a natural PG.

JB0B0
11-06-2010, 03:29 PM
He's averaging 25 points, 10 assists. How is he not a PG? It's deceiving because without Boozer, he doesn't have any reliable scoring options so many times he's forced to pick up the slack and score himself. Once Boozer returns, you'll start to see that he is a natural PG.

HakeemTheDream
11-06-2010, 03:29 PM
I see him as a combo guard and he should play alongside another combo guard, preferably one who can defend well and shoot 3's, too bad they traded Hinrich away.

thescore53
11-06-2010, 03:38 PM
he's a wade clone. he makes so much sexy layups. i suggested the idea moving him to sg but alot bulls fans dont think its a good idea. but he can play both positions thats why rose and hinrich duo worked so welll.

Hunter48MVP
11-06-2010, 03:40 PM
Derrick Rose is a beast! When is he a free agent? I hope the Lakers sign him. When Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and Ron Artest are free agents

HakeemTheDream
11-06-2010, 03:40 PM
Rose is like Wade without the defense and 2 step

Raph12
11-06-2010, 03:41 PM
A Derrick Rose thread, this is new, I'm intrigued...

chisox721
11-06-2010, 03:42 PM
I watched the Knicks - Bulls game the other night and I took a good look at DR to gather my own facts and perception of him as a player. I don't see him that much being a Knick fan but what I noticed ......I personally think him playing PG is taking away from his overall game. IMO he is not a top 10 PG. He may be a top 10 player but not a top 10 PG. There is a difference. DR is a combo guard, he is not the best ball handler and he is not good on defense at all. Felton was blowing by him all night and Felton is husky and slow. He has a deceit jump shot but he is a streaky player. As a PG he rarely got a pass for a spot up shot most of his jump shots was off the dribble. He is to good of a scorer to stay at PG. His passing abilities are average at best but if you're a scorer his assist should be down but as a PG he is expected to get high assist ....he should be receiving instead of dishing the basketball. So basically I think he should be a starting SG.

this is why is not considered to be a legitimate MVP candidate. Thoughts????.........BTW that dunk was unbelievable .....as a two guard he could get a lot more of those but he's busy passing the ball to guys like James Johnson and Deng.

-Streaky players don't shoot at a career 48% clip.
-His passing is definitely above average. He avg'd 6 assists per game last year with NO OFFENSE. 9.8 per game this year. We aren't asking him to be Rondo, I have no problem with him scoring and getting 8 assists per game.
-His midrange jump shot is most definitely better than "decent". If he starts shooting 3's like he says he can, hes going to be lethal.
-As well as he has played this year, he will be even better once we get Boozer back. That goes without talking about the possibility of us trading for a capable 2 guard.

That being said, I have no problem with him playing off the ball at times with CJ running the point, but he primarily needs to be at the point.

ecorrea
11-06-2010, 03:58 PM
He's averaging 25 points, 10 assists. How is he not a PG? It's deceiving because without Boozer, he doesn't have any reliable scoring options so many times he's forced to pick up the slack and score himself. Once Boozer returns, you'll start to see that he is a natural PG.

says it all. why is a thread made before even checkin his stats...

Missing56&33
11-06-2010, 04:00 PM
-Streaky players don't shoot at a career 48% clip.
-His passing is definitely above average. He avg'd 6 assists per game last year with NO OFFENSE. 9.8 per game this year. We aren't asking him to be Rondo, I have no problem with him scoring and getting 8 assists per game.
-His midrange jump shot is most definitely better than "decent". If he starts shooting 3's like he says he can, hes going to be lethal.
-As well as he has played this year, he will be even better once we get Boozer back. That goes without talking about the possibility of us trading for a capable 2 guard.

That being said, I have no problem with him playing off the ball at times with CJ running the point, but he primarily needs to be at the point.

WOW.....did you hear what you just said? We aren't asking him to be Rondo! Rondo is a NBA champion and much better PG than DR.....DR is the face of the franchise....or is he? At PG that is exactly what they want or asking from DR, is somebody that will lead the team to a championship. From what I see , DR has a long way to go to reach his potential as a PG.

Once Booz get back, the question is going to be can DR get the ball to Booz and stay at a high level scoring at PG? I personally don't think so. Or maybe he can, but I think he would be Kobe Bryant like if he can get cemented in that SG spot.

HakeemTheDream
11-06-2010, 04:05 PM
Yeah he's a pg but he needs a combo guard to play next to him so that when he plays teams like NO or Utah or Portland or OKC then he doesn't have to defend the pg because his defense isn't good. But passing wise Rose can get you 8 assists easy but I think it would help if his team mates passed well too because all the best teams have multiple good passers so there's nice ball movement. Whatever you want to label him doesn't really matter because it's just a label, all that matters is that he helps his team get wins.

D1JM
11-06-2010, 04:16 PM
this is his third year, he is still learning and he has thibs to coach him now, an actual teacher/coach. Once boozer comes and he gets to know all his 7 new teammates he will get better.

Cubsfan365
11-06-2010, 04:21 PM
Derrick Rose is a beast! When is he a free agent? I hope the Lakers sign him. When Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and Ron Artest are free agents
I highly doubt Rose leaves Chicago

HakeemTheDream
11-06-2010, 04:22 PM
Yeah Chicago is a great market and now they have a good coach

abe_froman
11-06-2010, 04:22 PM
does it matter? i have no idea where the notion that pg's cant or shouldnt be good scorers came from ,or why it stuck in the minds of so many fans.ontop of that the line between the two are becoming more and more blurred as time goes on(see your evans,curry,walls;even to the "play making sg's" your wades,roys,what have you).sub specialty guards are a dying breed.so call it what you will ,all that matters is good or not as a player

effen5
11-06-2010, 04:25 PM
WOW.....did you hear what you just said? We aren't asking him to be Rondo! Rondo is a NBA champion and much better PG than DR.....DR is the face of the franchise....or is he? At PG that is exactly what they want or asking from DR, is somebody that will lead the team to a championship. From what I see , DR has a long way to go to reach his potential as a PG.

Once Booz get back, the question is going to be can DR get the ball to Booz and stay at a high level scoring at PG? I personally don't think so. Or maybe he can, but I think he would be Kobe Bryant like if he can get cemented in that SG spot.


So this is the perception you got after one game...:clap:

Did you see the players around Rondo? Hes got scorers. Did you see the players around Rose...they are VERY VERY INCONSISTENT SCORERS.

Like yesterdays game, did you see what happened when Rose sat? They didn't make a single point until Rose came back in.

This is why you question his point guard ability. Rose has no scorers until Boozer gets back, which is why Rose is taking up the slack at both PG and SG positions.

HakeemTheDream
11-06-2010, 04:28 PM
Yeah when Rose sat the Celtics went on a 23-3 run

effen5
11-06-2010, 04:33 PM
Yeah when Rose sat the Celtics went on a 23-3 run

Which is why Rose has to shoot more unfortunately. People don't understand this. I don't think the OP understands this.

netsgiantsyanks
11-06-2010, 04:36 PM
Derrick Rose is a beast! When is he a free agent? I hope the Lakers sign him. When Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and Ron Artest are free agents

lolz

BcEuAbRsS
11-06-2010, 04:36 PM
How can this guy say Rose isnt a top 10 pg? 25/10 is such a horrible average... he should really do less of those two things so this guy can think he is good...

Knicks had a historic night... only 4 other teams in the past 25+ yrs have done what they did... get over urself and maybe u will realize that Rose would be the best player ur team has seen in the past 10 yrs...

DLeeicious
11-06-2010, 04:45 PM
A Derrick Rose thread, this is new, I'm intrigued...

Exactly, the only difference is OP actually admitted to never watching him play as he formed his opinion after one game. Most OP's about Rose are opinions on him where the OP doesn't admit he has only seem him play 2 times.

JordansBulls
11-06-2010, 04:47 PM
Have you seen how bad our offense is without Rose? No one can create a shot for themselves. Do you really want Bogans or Brewer shooting?

DLeeicious
11-06-2010, 04:48 PM
Also why not just put this in the Bulls forum if you want an educated discussion on ONE player? You clearly started this as a bash thread by putting it in the NBA forum.

DLeeicious
11-06-2010, 04:49 PM
Have you seen how bad our offense is without Rose? No one can create a shot for themselves. Do you really want Bogans or Brewer shooting?

Brewer needs to step the **** up here, he has been infinitely dissapointing thus far. He has shown glimpses lately at least of what he can offer. I'm hoping he just is still recovering from his injury.

k24magic
11-06-2010, 04:50 PM
Wtf Derrick Rose isn't a top 10 PG wow this is funny indeed. Derrick Rose is one of the best PGs in the league already and this is just his 3rd season. The Bulls have been in the playoffs every year because of HIM he makes them relevant again. Sure there are things that he probably cant do at this point in his career but, he has a chance to be the best PG in the league. Why compare him to Rondo? Rondo is a great player but even the great Rondo has holes in his game as well just like Rose. Rose was a much better player in his rookie season than Rondo. Rose wasnt blessed with great teammates like Garnett, Allen and Pierce if those two traded places the Celtics would have more than championships. The difference between Rondo and Rose is that they have different styles Rondo is probably the better passer, rebounder, and defender. While Rose is probably one of the best scoring PG's in the league with the ability to find open teammates. Also its what their respective teams need Rondo doesnt need to score when he has the Big Three and pretty good bench players while Rose has to score for the Bulls until Boozer gets back and when they start to gel.

And as far as Rose not being a top ten PG thats ******** here is my list in no particular order:

Willams
Paul
Nash
Rondo
Rose
Billups
Parker
Westbrook
Curry
Harris(when healthy)

hugepatsfan
11-06-2010, 04:56 PM
He's a fine PG. There's nothing wrong w/ a shoot first PG, so long as he doesn't take shot. If he looks to create for others before himself, he's not doing the best thing for the team. He's an incredibly gifted scorer - the team needs that. I'm not saying he doesn't have "PG skills" (because he does). I'm just saying that they're not as good as his scoring skills. He's more D-Wade than J Kidd.

Missing56&33
11-06-2010, 05:05 PM
So this is the perception you got after one game...:clap:

Did you see the players around Rondo? Hes got scorers. Did you see the players around Rose...they are VERY VERY INCONSISTENT SCORERS.

Like yesterdays game, did you see what happened when Rose sat? They didn't make a single point until Rose came back in.

This is why you question his point guard ability. Rose has no scorers until Boozer gets back, which is why Rose is taking up the slack at both PG and SG positions.

cmon .....get serious. I have seen Derrick Rose play many times before but I don't follow the Bulls like i do the Knicks so you should know what I mean. But the question about his game has been raised many times before and even Rose himself is wondering why he is not a MVP candidate. He's been a starting PG since he's been in the league. I don't know if he has been started at the two or not(enlighten me if he has) I just think he will take his game to the next level if he can stay at the two spot. Like somebody said earlier , Kirk Hinrich is better at the PG and Rose at the two. See the experimenting is taking away from the MVP candidate considerations that he so desperately want. So if DR wants to win MVP he need to stop crying about it and go to his coach and ask to play SG. IMO

Ovratd1up
11-06-2010, 05:09 PM
He's more D-Wade than J. Kidd (Rondo) but still, who would you rather have playing your point, D-Wade, or J. Kidd? Think about it

Gambeezy
11-06-2010, 05:16 PM
I actually would hate to see Rose playing off-ball at SG. He is lightning quick and you're underrating his handles. He has a ridiculous cross-over that blows by most. He creates his own shots off the cross. He just isn't a good enough shooter to play off-ball at the 2 spot. He slashes to the rim and earns his check by making magic in the paint. His mid-range is decent while the 3 is near non-existent.

Check his stats and tell me he isn't a true PG.

Sir Buckets
11-06-2010, 05:33 PM
I think these labels of "PG", "SG", "combo guard", etc. have made a lot of you people lose your minds. That's all they are... labels. Illusions. Let's stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and get rid of all those limiting things and think about what he actually is as a player...

Rose is one-man wrecking crew on offense. He can get his own shot almost at will. His midrange game (and everything else in) is elite.

His three pointer is now decent (don't look strictly at his %, it's a bit deceiving).

His defense is coming along well.

Sounds like a SG, right? Well...

Even without Boozer, and with a new head coach/offensive scheme/7 new players, he is averaging around 10 assists per game. He's tied and topped his career high already this season (was 13, now 14). His passing is looking real good right now, but just wait until the team is in midseason form, the players are accustomed to each other, and the offense is flowing.

Sounds like a PG, right?

The truth is, "combo guard" doesn't really do him justice. It almost even has a negative connotation. We need to invent a new word for what he's going to do -- reinvent the guard position. Combine an elite offensive weapon with an elite distributing force and you have what Derrick Rose will be very soon. He will truly be one of the, if not the most valuable players in the league; the guy everyone want on their team. Seriously, what more could you ask for?

His weaknesses at the moment are:

- 3 point shooting

- defense

- rebounding

He has worked on his 3 point shot and has confidence in it. I see him shooting it at around ~32-34% by the end of the year. He will continue to improve in this department (see: his midrange game)

Defense/rebounding? Heeelllooooo Thibodeau. This guy will get him where he needs to be in these two skill sets.

Seriously, in a few years Rose will most likely be one of the best, or THE best, all-around player in the league, and a true MVP candidate in every sense of the word. Oh, and he's a fantastic teammate that genuinely wants to get others involved. No bad attitude here, just a hard-working, increasingly less shy, budding superstar.

SteveNash
11-06-2010, 05:35 PM
He's averaging 25 points, 10 assists. How is he not a PG? It's deceiving because without Boozer, he doesn't have any reliable scoring options so many times he's forced to pick up the slack and score himself. Once Boozer returns, you'll start to see that he is a natural PG.

How many turnovers is he averaging?

Sly Guy
11-06-2010, 05:39 PM
I watched the Knicks - Bulls game the other night and I took a good look at DR to gather my own facts and perception of him as a player. I don't see him that much being a Knick fan but what I noticed ......I personally think him playing PG is taking away from his overall game. IMO he is not a top 10 PG. He may be a top 10 player but not a top 10 PG. There is a difference. DR is a combo guard, he is not the best ball handler and he is not good on defense at all. Felton was blowing by him all night and Felton is husky and slow. He has a deceit jump shot but he is a streaky player. As a PG he rarely got a pass for a spot up shot most of his jump shots was off the dribble. He is to good of a scorer to stay at PG. His passing abilities are average at best but if you're a scorer his assist should be down but as a PG he is expected to get high assist ....he should be receiving instead of dishing the basketball. So basically I think he should be a starting SG.

this is why is not considered to be a legitimate MVP candidate. Thoughts????.........BTW that dunk was unbelievable .....as a two guard he could get a lot more of those but he's busy passing the ball to guys like James Johnson and Deng.

was thinking the same thing....he's more of a 2 than a 1.

Mr Moody
11-06-2010, 05:46 PM
How many turnovers is he averaging?

The season is still young bud

Derrick Rose: 4.8 TO/g
Deron Williams: 4.2 TO/g
Steve Nash: 5.6 TO/g
Rondo: 4 TO/g

Shammyguy3
11-06-2010, 06:04 PM
cmon .....get serious. I have seen Derrick Rose play many times before but I don't follow the Bulls like i do the Knicks so you should know what I mean. But the question about his game has been raised many times before and even Rose himself is wondering why he is not a MVP candidate. He's been a starting PG since he's been in the league. I don't know if he has been started at the two or not(enlighten me if he has) I just think he will take his game to the next level if he can stay at the two spot. Like somebody said earlier , Kirk Hinrich is better at the PG and Rose at the two. See the experimenting is taking away from the MVP candidate considerations that he so desperately want. So if DR wants to win MVP he need to stop crying about it and go to his coach and ask to play SG. IMO

Derrick Rose plays best when he has the ball. You put him in a situation where he has to play off the ball, and you lose his greatest assets.


How many turnovers is he averaging?

His ast% is 45.5% and his tov% is 16.8% Those numbers are very very very good.

D Roses Bulls
11-06-2010, 06:11 PM
I watched the Knicks - Bulls game the other night and I took a good look at DR to gather my own facts and perception of him as a player. I don't see him that much being a Knick fan but what I noticed ......I personally think him playing PG is taking away from his overall game. IMO he is not a top 10 PG. He may be a top 10 player but not a top 10 PG. There is a difference. DR is a combo guard, he is not the best ball handler and he is not good on defense at all. Felton was blowing by him all night and Felton is husky and slow. He has a deceit jump shot but he is a streaky player. As a PG he rarely got a pass for a spot up shot most of his jump shots was off the dribble. He is to good of a scorer to stay at PG. His passing abilities are average at best but if you're a scorer his assist should be down but as a PG he is expected to get high assist ....he should be receiving instead of dishing the basketball. So basically I think he should be a starting SG.

this is why is not considered to be a legitimate MVP candidate. Thoughts????.........BTW that dunk was unbelievable .....as a two guard he could get a lot more of those but he's busy passing the ball to guys like James Johnson and Deng.

wasnt his numbers vs the knicks 18 and 14 and he is averaging 27 and 10 on the season....... I guess that makes you a bad point guard. oh why oh why cant he average 15 assists a game.

effen5
11-06-2010, 06:17 PM
cmon .....get serious. I have seen Derrick Rose play many times before but I don't follow the Bulls like i do the Knicks so you should know what I mean. But the question about his game has been raised many times before and even Rose himself is wondering why he is not a MVP candidate. He's been a starting PG since he's been in the league. I don't know if he has been started at the two or not(enlighten me if he has) I just think he will take his game to the next level if he can stay at the two spot. Like somebody said earlier , Kirk Hinrich is better at the PG and Rose at the two. See the experimenting is taking away from the MVP candidate considerations that he so desperately want. So if DR wants to win MVP he need to stop crying about it and go to his coach and ask to play SG. IMO


Pretty much tells me you haven't seen Drose play more than 5 games.

Rose can't play off the ball, he needs the ball in his hands. Hinrich is a decent PG, but not better than Rose, not even close. Only thing Hinrich does better as a PG is defense and thats it.

Despite what everyone thinks, Rose makes everyones game a lot better, unforunately, everyone else sucks on the team. I mean look at Noah's game, Rose driving into the lane is giving Noah easy buckets/tip ins. It all starts with Rose.

SteveNash
11-06-2010, 06:18 PM
The season is still young bud

Derrick Rose: 4.8 TO/g
Deron Williams: 4.2 TO/g
Steve Nash: 5.6 TO/g
Rondo: 4 TO/g

Your point?

I don't think anyone's arguing that Deron and Nash have had a great start to the season. And Rondo's averaging 16APG so he gets a bit of a pass.

It's only delusional Rose fans that want to hype him based on a small sample size where he's been up and down, extremely inconsistent and hasn't been playing winning basketball.



His ast% is 45.5% and his tov% is 16.8% Those numbers are very very very good.

TOV% isn't very good. And his AST% is so high because of his ball hogging.

effen5
11-06-2010, 06:19 PM
wasnt his numbers vs the knicks 18 and 14 and he is averaging 27 and 10 on the season....... I guess that makes you a bad point guard. oh why oh why cant he average 15 assists a game.

because he doesn't have Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, or Paul Pierce...instead he has Taj Gibson, Luol Deng, and Keith Bogans.

This is no shot at Rondo by the way, Rondo is playing out of his ****in mind. Absolute beast.

Reversed86Curse
11-06-2010, 06:19 PM
A Derrick Rose thread, this is new, I'm intrigued...

Yah, it's refreshing isn't it?

effen5
11-06-2010, 06:20 PM
Your point?

I don't think anyone's arguing that Deron and Nash have had a great start to the season. And Rondo's averaging 16APG so he gets a bit of a pass.

It's only delusional Rose fans that want to hype him based on a small sample size where he's been up and down, extremely inconsistent and hasn't been playing winning basketball.




TOV% isn't very good. And his AST% is so high because of his ball hogging.

How is he inconsistent? Rose and Noah have been the only two consistent players on the first 5 games of the season.

SteveNash
11-06-2010, 06:22 PM
How is he inconsistent? Rose and Noah have been the only two consistent players on the first 5 games of the season.

How has he been consistent.

Reversed86Curse
11-06-2010, 06:24 PM
So this is the perception you got after one game...:clap:

Did you see the players around Rondo? Hes got scorers. Did you see the players around Rose...they are VERY VERY INCONSISTENT SCORERS.

Like yesterdays game, did you see what happened when Rose sat? They didn't make a single point until Rose came back in.

This is why you question his point guard ability. Rose has no scorers until Boozer gets back, which is why Rose is taking up the slack at both PG and SG positions.

Rose also took 20-something shots in regulation and was held below his average by a great defending, real point guard, who's team won. Gibson put up numbers that Boozer will be putting up when he gets back, and Noah is playing great ball, it isn't like they have NO scorers........Rose just takes half of the shots

DieHardCubFan
11-06-2010, 06:26 PM
He is definitely a top 10 point guard. He's probably the best.

Reversed86Curse
11-06-2010, 06:27 PM
I think these labels of "PG", "SG", "combo guard", etc. have made a lot of you people lose your minds. That's all they are... labels. Illusions. Let's stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and get rid of all those limiting things and think about what he actually is as a player...

Rose is one-man wrecking crew on offense. He can get his own shot almost at will. His midrange game (and everything else in) is elite.

His three pointer is now decent (don't look strictly at his %, it's a bit deceiving).

His defense is coming along well.

Sounds like a SG, right? Well...

Even without Boozer, and with a new head coach/offensive scheme/7 new players, he is averaging around 10 assists per game. He's tied and topped his career high already this season (was 13, now 14). His passing is looking real good right now, but just wait until the team is in midseason form, the players are accustomed to each other, and the offense is flowing.

Sounds like a PG, right?

The truth is, "combo guard" doesn't really do him justice. It almost even has a negative connotation. We need to invent a new word for what he's going to do -- reinvent the guard position. Combine an elite offensive weapon with an elite distributing force and you have what Derrick Rose will be very soon. He will truly be one of the, if not the most valuable players in the league; the guy everyone want on their team. Seriously, what more could you ask for?

His weaknesses at the moment are:

- 3 point shooting

- defense

- rebounding

He has worked on his 3 point shot and has confidence in it. I see him shooting it at around ~32-34% by the end of the year. He will continue to improve in this department (see: his midrange game)

Defense/rebounding? Heeelllooooo Thibodeau. This guy will get him where he needs to be in these two skill sets.

Seriously, in a few years Rose will most likely be one of the best, or THE best, all-around player in the league, and a true MVP candidate in every sense of the word. Oh, and he's a fantastic teammate that genuinely wants to get others involved. No bad attitude here, just a hard-working, increasingly less shy, budding superstar.

Why is that deceiving? You can make a hundred 3-pointers but if you're taking 400 to get that many, you still shoot at 25%, which he is. That isn't good. And his defense isn't good. Some people cannot learn that, even from a great defensive minded coach

D Roses Bulls
11-06-2010, 06:32 PM
How has he been consistent.

:facepalm: you never seize to amaze me

ecorrea
11-06-2010, 06:35 PM
steve nash sir you are a hater

nitric
11-06-2010, 06:37 PM
You mean the game against the Knicks where he had 24 points and 14 assists without even playing any significant minutes in the 4th? Definitely needs to switch to SG...

Mr Moody
11-06-2010, 06:40 PM
Rose also took 20-something shots in regulation and was held below his average by a great defending, real point guard, who's team won. Gibson put up numbers that Boozer will be putting up when he gets back, and Noah is playing great ball, it isn't like they have NO scorers........Rose just takes half of the shots

-He shot 19 shots for the whole game brah

-And Gibson played great, but even if his numbers were high he still doesnt demand repect from opposing defenses like Boozer does. So when Boozer gets back, it makes everyone's life easier

- And Noah is far from a scorer

nitric
11-06-2010, 06:45 PM
Rose also took 20-something shots in regulation and was held below his average by a great defending, real point guard, who's team won. Gibson put up numbers that Boozer will be putting up when he gets back, and Noah is playing great ball, it isn't like they have NO scorers........Rose just takes half of the shots

Let's compare the 2-3-4 for the Bulls and Celtics

Rondo gets to pass to : Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett

Rose gets to pass to : Keith Bogans, Luol Deng and Taj Gibson

Do I need to spell it out for you next?

hugepatsfan
11-06-2010, 06:54 PM
Let's compare the 2-3-4 for the Bulls and Celtics

Rondo gets to pass to : Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett

Rose gets to pass to : Keith Bogans, Luol Deng and Taj Gibson

Do I need to spell it out for you next?

How does that explain Rose's awful defense? That's my biggest concern with him as an elite PG. He is a liability on the defensive end. What separates Rondo from Rose IMO is his ability to help at both ends. To be as good as Bulls fans already think he is, he is going to need to greatly improve on the defensive end. But on offense, whether he's a PG, SG, or combo G is irrelevant - whatever you call on him on offense he's aweesome at it.

Cubs Win
11-06-2010, 07:08 PM
How does that explain Rose's awful defense? That's my biggest concern with him as an elite PG. He is a liability on the defensive end. What separates Rondo from Rose IMO is his ability to help at both ends. To be as good as Bulls fans already think he is, he is going to need to greatly improve on the defensive end. But on offense, whether he's a PG, SG, or combo G is irrelevant - whatever you call on him on offense he's aweesome at it.

But what separates Rose from Rondo IMO is the fact that if no one else on the floor can get a shot to fall, Rose can get to the basket at will (unless he is fouled, which often doesn't stop him either) and score to get the team back in the game.

Sir Buckets
11-06-2010, 07:11 PM
Why is that deceiving? You can make a hundred 3-pointers but if you're taking 400 to get that many, you still shoot at 25%, which he is. That isn't good.If we were 41 games into the season and he was shooting 25%, you would be 100% correct. The fact of the matter is, it's only been 5 games. Last night he shot 0-2 from 3. LOLOLOMG 0%. Yeah. Both of those were end of quarter heaves/bombs that would not be taken in the normal flow of the offense. So take those out and you have him shooting 5/18, roughly 28%. Now, take the OKC game where he shot 0-4, if I remember correctly. That's what we call an outlier. If we add just 1 make, for a below-average 25% for the game (1/4), his overall makes/attempts goes up to 6/18, which suddenly becomes a respectable 33%.

But whatever, hate on. You're only lying to yourself.

camador22
11-06-2010, 07:17 PM
I think Rose is more of a combo guard then a PG. Hes a shoot first and pass second guard that needs the ball to be affective. I think CP3, Deron, Rondo and maybe Nash are still better at this point. I think he's as good as his new rival Westbrook though. Bottom line certainly top 10 and maybe top 5.

Postives:
Young with tons of growth
Superfast with the ball
Breaks defenses with ease
Great scorer

Negatives:
Defense
Not clutch
Not affective without ball
Average passer

Evolution23
11-06-2010, 07:20 PM
Rondo is more complete and is a better passer. He also plays better D. Rose has a better jumper. Overall Rondo is a better Point Guard without a doubt.

hugepatsfan
11-06-2010, 07:20 PM
But what separates Rose from Rondo IMO is the fact that if no one else on the floor can get a shot to fall, Rose can get to the basket at will (unless he is fouled, which often doesn't stop him either) and score to get the team back in the game.

You didn't address my point that on the defensive end (1/2 of the game) Rose is a liability for his team. Rondo contributes on both ends at a high level. That's why I put him over Rose.

Sir Buckets
11-06-2010, 07:23 PM
And his defense isn't good. Some people cannot learn that, even from a great defensive minded coachHis defense has been inconsistent. Some games were really good, some were not. I have no doubt that with his work ethic, physical abilities, and mentor (Thibs) he will blossom (GET IT!?!?) into a great defender.

hugepatsfan
11-06-2010, 07:24 PM
If we were 41 games into the season and he was shooting 25%, you would be 100% correct. The fact of the matter is, it's only been 5 games. Last night he shot 0-2 from 3. LOLOLOMG 0%. Yeah. Both of those were end of quarter heaves/bombs that would not be taken in the normal flow of the offense. So take those out and you have him shooting 5/18, roughly 28%. Now, take the OKC game where he shot 0-4, if I remember correctly. That's what we call an outlier. If we add just 1 make, for a below-average 25% for the game (1/4), his overall makes/attempts goes up to 6/18, which suddenly becomes a respectable 33%.

But whatever, hate on. You're only lying to yourself.

This post is ridiculous. Rose is not a great 3 point shooter. If you want to take out a bunch of attempts and add a couple of makes, by all means go ahead. But that doesn't prove anything. Fictional stats don't mean much.

xxcubs22xx
11-06-2010, 07:25 PM
WOW :facepalm:

no offense, but if you think DR isn't a true PG, you should probably watch more basketball (or watch none at all, for that matter)

hugepatsfan
11-06-2010, 07:26 PM
His defense has been inconsistent. Some games were really good, some were not. I have no doubt that with his work ethic, physical abilities, and mentor (Thibs) he will blossom (GET IT!?!?) into a great defender.

I agree that eveything is set up for him to improve. But he isn't a great defender yet. He doesn't contribute on both ends. Bulls fans are singing his praises too early.

Evolution23
11-06-2010, 07:26 PM
His defense has been inconsistent. Some games were really good, some were not. I have no doubt that with his work ethic, physical abilities, and mentor (Thibs) he will blossom (GET IT!?!?) into a great defender.

You cant really teach Def. Its not something you can pick up, its more of wanting to play D. Like having pride in not letting your enemy score.

Shammyguy3
11-06-2010, 07:31 PM
Your point?

I don't think anyone's arguing that Deron and Nash have had a great start to the season. And Rondo's averaging 16APG so he gets a bit of a pass.

It's only delusional Rose fans that want to hype him based on a small sample size where he's been up and down, extremely inconsistent and hasn't been playing winning basketball.




TOV% isn't very good. And his AST% is so high because of his ball hogging.

Yeah, his tov% actually is very good because his ast% and usg% are so high

Lebron James career numbers: ast% 34.2% --- tov% 11.8% --- usg% 31.9%
Derrick Rose (this season): ast% 45.5% ------ tov% 16.8% --- usg% 33.4%

Sir Buckets
11-06-2010, 07:33 PM
I think Rose is more of a combo guard then a PG. Hes a shoot first and pass second guard that needs the ball to be affective. I think CP3, Deron, Rondo and maybe Nash are still better at this point. I think he's as good as his new rival Westbrook though. Bottom line certainly top 10 and maybe top 5.

Postives:
Young with tons of growth
Superfast with the ball
Breaks defenses with ease
Great scorer

Negatives:
Defense
Not clutch
Not affective without ball
Average passerYou got all the positives right, but your last 3 negatives are wrong (clutchness, off-ball effectiveness, passing).

Clutchness - Rose makes big time plays when big time plays are needed. Just because he has never hit a classic game-winning buzzer beater doesn't mean he isn't clutch.

Off-ball effectiveness - Just because he is at his best with the ball doesn't mean he isn't effective off it. Vinny's offensive schemes were a ****ing joke. With Thibs we're seeing much more off-the-ball activity for Rose (and others).

Average passer - With Thibs, and most likely also as a result of increased confidence/experience, his passing is very much above-average. I know it's early into the season, and therefore take it for what's it's worth, but the only players with more assists than Rose are Rondo, Kidd, and Paul. Oh, and Rose is playing with a bunch of new teammates, in a new offense, and without our All-Star caliber PF, Boozer.

Missing56&33
11-06-2010, 07:37 PM
Derrick Rose plays best when he has the ball. You put him in a situation where he has to play off the ball, and you lose his greatest assets.



His ast% is 45.5% and his tov% is 16.8% Those numbers are very very very good.



effen5

Pretty much tells me you haven't seen Drose play more than 5 games.

Rose can't play off the ball, he needs the ball in his hands. Hinrich is a decent PG, but not better than Rose, not even close. Only thing Hinrich does better as a PG is defense and thats it.

Despite what everyone thinks, Rose makes everyones game a lot better, unforunately, everyone else sucks on the team. I mean look at Noah's game, Rose driving into the lane is giving Noah easy buckets/tip ins. It all starts with Rose.


I think trading Hinrich was a big mistake. And based on the direction of the Bulls it looks like they are building around Rose at PG. If he can play off the ball(which i strong disagree with) then at PG he will never be on the level of CP3 , Deron Williams or Rajon Rondo...Tony Parker .....he will always rank below them. You could leave him at PG and build around that add a top tier SG but if you do that I don't think you'll be talking MVP and possibly missing out on some all star games as well.

I think he has it in him to be a super SG, and at SG his jump shot will get better and better. If he is great with the ball in his hands he could be great with the ball in his hands at SG. As the pg he's being asked to set up the offense ....be the floor general. I don't think he's that great a floor general. His lack of skills behind the arc is what really hurts his overall game at the point, and being able to shoot off a pick and roll.

Sir Buckets
11-06-2010, 07:41 PM
This post is ridiculous. Rose is not a great 3 point shooter. If you want to take out a bunch of attempts and add a couple of makes, by all means go ahead. But that doesn't prove anything. Fictional stats don't mean much.I didn't say Rose was a great 3 point shooter, simply that he has improved to a roughly average (and therefore serviceable) level.

Yes, fictional stats don't mean much, if even anything. But if you're going to judge a player's shooting ability (especially 3 pointers, which aren't taken as much as, say, midrange shots) by just 5 games and 20 attempts, wow.

I took the 2 end-of-quarter heaves/bombs in Boston out to make it as accurate as possible in regards to his actual shooting. And then added 1 bogus make to his OKC outlier game to show just how meaningless this early, small sample size is.

Get off your high horse.

nstachowski
11-06-2010, 07:43 PM
Derrick Rose is a beast! When is he a free agent? I hope the Lakers sign him. When Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and Ron Artest are free agents

Rose isn't going anywhere.

Sir Buckets
11-06-2010, 07:43 PM
You cant really teach Def. Its not something you can pick up, its more of wanting to play D. Like having pride in not letting your enemy score.Well, now it's official. Everyone can just go home I suppose. Turn the lights off. Rose will never be a great defender. A 22 year old All-Star with freak athletic ability, a defensive guru for a coach, and a humble, hard-working attitude with a deep desire to win can't improve his D.

I think I've seen it all. Let's try thinking before typing.

Khalifa21
11-06-2010, 07:48 PM
I've always said Rose is a great player, but not a top 5 POINT GUARD. He doesn't facilitate the game like CP3, Deron, Nash, Rondo, Kidd, even Westbrook. All those guys are without a doubt better POINT GUARDS than him, but not necessarily better players.

Aussy4GM
11-06-2010, 07:48 PM
i love how everyone acts like if you score more than 15 a game you arent a point guard. Just because he doesnt have 25 assists a game doesnt mean ****. because if rose was a part of the celtics he would be much better than rondo. a legit shooting threat who also has the fastest first step in the NBA. he would be drawing 3 defenders and kicking out to pierce and allen all day. and dont even act like he wouldnt.

Aussy4GM
11-06-2010, 07:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLFYdWFDmco

Aussy4GM
11-06-2010, 07:52 PM
and Khalifa. you gotta understand that he cant facilitate the game because he is the only consistent scorer on the team. all those PG's you named, look at the people they have or had around them. give rose a chance. his biggest scoring thread is luol deng..... really? just wait til boozer comes back and the bull are running the pick and roll like its handing out candy on halloween.

Shammyguy3
11-06-2010, 07:55 PM
I think trading Hinrich was a big mistake. And based on the direction of the Bulls it looks like they are building around Rose at PG. If he can play off the ball(which i strong disagree with) then at PG he will never be on the level of CP3 , Deron Williams or Rajon Rondo...Tony Parker .....he will always rank below them. You could leave him at PG and build around that add a top tier SG but if you do that I don't think you'll be talking MVP and possibly missing out on some all star games as well.

I think he has it in him to be a super SG, and at SG his jump shot will get better and better. If he is great with the ball in his hands he could be great with the ball in his hands at SG. As the pg he's being asked to set up the offense ....be the floor general. I don't think he's that great a floor general. His lack of skills behind the arc is what really hurts his overall game at the point, and being able to shoot off a pick and roll.

If you move him to SG, you take away all of his assets. How do you not get this? Also, he loses advantages such as his strength and size. You move him to the 2guard spot, and he is just another undersized two going up against the Brandon Roys, Kobe Bryants, Joe Johnsons. You think he has trouble with PGs on defense, wait until you see those guys begin to post him up and shoot over him.
Rose is a very good floor general. He's not Steve Nash or Chris Paul, or Magic Johnson or Lebron James. However, he's very good at it.
Apparently though, everyone will have a beef with him no matter how many assists or points or rebounds or fouls or whatever he gets in a game.

I'm done with you, as you already have your mind made up on this matter.

Mr Moody
11-06-2010, 07:58 PM
You cant really teach Def. Its not something you can pick up, its more of wanting to play D. Like having pride in not letting your enemy score.

You cant teach defense? wha? So under your logic people are born with the ability to play defense and some people aren't born with the ability. hmmm pass me what your smoking.

D Roses Bulls
11-06-2010, 08:00 PM
WOW :facepalm:

no offense, but if you think DR isn't a true PG, you should probably watch more basketball (or watch none at all, for that matter)

x2

effen5
11-06-2010, 08:01 PM
[QtUOTE=shammyguy3;15468779]If you move him to SG, you take away all of his assets. How do you not get this? Also, he loses advantages such as his strength and size. You move him to the 2guard spot, and he is just another undersized two going up against the Brandon Roys, Kobe Bryants, Joe Johnsons. You think he has trouble with PGs on defense, wait until you see those guys begin to post him up and shoot over him.
Rose is a very good floor general. He's not Steve Nash or Chris Paul, or Magic Johnson or Lebron James. However, he's very good at it.
Apparently though, everyone will have a beef with him no matter how many assists or points or rebounds or fouls or whatever he gets in a game.

I'm done with you, as you already have your mind made up on this matter.[/QUOTE]

This he's already made up his mind and won't listen to reason.

Sir Buckets
11-06-2010, 08:04 PM
This he's already made up his mind and won't listen to reason.Welcome to the PSD NBA Board!

hugepatsfan
11-06-2010, 08:08 PM
I didn't say Rose was a great 3 point shooter, simply that he has improved to a roughly average (and therefore serviceable) level.

Yes, fictional stats don't mean much, if even anything. But if you're going to judge a player's shooting ability (especially 3 pointers, which aren't taken as much as, say, midrange shots) by just 5 games and 20 attempts, wow.

I took the 2 end-of-quarter heaves/bombs in Boston out to make it as accurate as possible in regards to his actual shooting. And then added 1 bogus make to his OKC outlier game to show just how meaningless this early, small sample size is.

Get off your high horse.

I'm not judging him off of 5 games. I'm judging him off his college career and the first 2 years in the NBA. You're using a 5 game sample size that doesn't exist.

Sir Buckets
11-06-2010, 08:14 PM
I'm not judging him off of 5 games. I'm judging him off his college career and the first 2 years in the NBA. You're using a 5 game sample size that doesn't exist....but the past is the past...

Good logic? He sucked before, so he must suck now?

I'm guessing he's still just alright at midrange shooting, right?

John Walls Era
11-06-2010, 08:15 PM
Call me crazy, but the OP has a point. I'm a huge Rose fan, but he isn't a great PG. Hes a good PG, there is a difference. He will pass to a guy if hes open, but he always looks to score first. He is more of a slashing combo guard than a traditional get everyone involved kind of PG.

Of course, with his talent he can still be a perennial allstar PG.

John Walls Era
11-06-2010, 08:15 PM
^ Did what I say even make sense to some people?

Cubs Win
11-06-2010, 08:16 PM
I'm not judging him off of 5 games. I'm judging him off his college career and the first 2 years in the NBA. You're using a 5 game sample size that doesn't exist.

Either you are uninformed or just being ignorant. One of the main focuses of Rose's workouts this summer was his three point shooting. So to judge mainly on his past performance from beyond the arc would be unfair. He used to be a sub par shooter from anywhere on the floor. He then focused on his mid-range shooting over the summer of 2009 and became one of the top-5 mid range shooters in the game.

So quite honestly, there is nothing to base his three point shooting off of. However, it would make sense (knowing that he focused on it this summer) to expect at least marginal to good improvement on his three point shooting this year. I guess we'll see how much he improves as the season goes on and we have a legitimate sample size.

Cubs Win
11-06-2010, 08:20 PM
^ Did what I say even make sense to some people?

Haha yes, I understand what you're trying to say. Although I kind of disagree. I think he is a great PG (perhaps some Chicago bias). Albeit, a small sample size this far he is averaging 25 ppg and 10 apg. So I think he can be a great point guard although it's not in the traditional sense of simply a distributor. Because his talents allow him to be the distributor, but also has an excellent ability to score which allows him to take over games. He IS a point guard. Just not like many we've seen before. (And I'm not trying to say he will be the greatest point guard ever, just that he's a very unique talent)

hugepatsfan
11-06-2010, 08:22 PM
Either you are uninformed or just being ignorant. One of the main focuses of Rose's workouts this summer was his three point shooting. So to judge mainly on his past performance from beyond the arc would be unfair. He used to be a sub par shooter from anywhere on the floor. He then focused on his mid-range shooting over the summer of 2009 and became one of the top-5 mid range shooters in the game.

So quite honestly, there is nothing to base his three point shooting off of. However, it would make sense (knowing that he focused on it this summer) to expect at least marginal to good improvement on his three point shooting this year. I guess we'll see how much he improves as the season goes on and we have a legitimate sample size.

Rose has taken 20 3 pointers this year and hit 5. The poster I was responding to changed Rose's stats to make him a 33% shooter. He then used that to claim that Rose is an average shooter. That's ridiculous, especially. He claimed that 5 games is not enough to judge Rose's shooting, but then reached the conclusion that Rose is a good shooter based off of less stats (because he dropped some shots). I don't understand that logic.

h2r09
11-06-2010, 08:25 PM
he is as much of a pg as d wade is in the sense that he is a pg because he just always has the ball in his hands. his game is that of a sg but he plays pg.

Missing56&33
11-06-2010, 08:25 PM
Based on what I've read in this thread. Rose can't play without the basketball. He can't shoot the three, and he can't play a lick of defense. So what your telling me is .....that if teams put a good defender on Rose or double him....take the ball out of his hands....play mainly zone defense because he's unreliable from three and allow opposing PG's like Raymond Felton and Tony Douglas showcase their skills(because he sucks so bad on defense) the Bulls can be stopped....sounds like a solid game plan....no wonder they can't get out of the first round.

Don't get me wrong .....this is not a Derrick Rose bash thread. I think he is a very talented player with amazing athletic ability but when you think of DR and talk about DR you think top player but not an MVP candidate. And I think thats because he's a PG. He's not in the conversations with the Magic Johnson's, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd's, Steve Nash's, CP3, Westbrook, Parker.......Rondo's......you'll get great stats but no game changing play unless you add several pieces to the team. He'll make the all star game because of his stats and highlight play but MVP....I don't think so.

Rose wants a legacy and I don't see it happening at PG. this is my point to the thread ...not to hate on Rose(would love to see him on the Knicks with Carmelo and Amar'e)

John Walls Era
11-06-2010, 08:26 PM
Haha yes, I understand what you're trying to say. Although I kind of disagree. I think he is a great PG (perhaps some Chicago bias). Albeit, a small sample size this far he is averaging 25 ppg and 10 apg. So I think he can be a great point guard although it's not in the traditional sense of simply a distributor. Because his talents allow him to be the distributor, but also has an excellent ability to score which allows him to take over games. He IS a point guard. Just not like many we've seen before. (And I'm not trying to say he will be the greatest point guard ever, just that he's a very unique talent)

What you said was what I was getting at. I worded it poorly, but what I bold, was what I wanted to emphasize.

xxcubs22xx
11-06-2010, 08:26 PM
He is a good 3 point shooter, and a great mid range shooter.

A lot of the 3's he's missed this year have been off-balance, shot-clock-winding-down 3's.

John Walls Era
11-06-2010, 08:32 PM
He is a good 3 point shooter, and a great mid range shooter.

A lot of the 3's he's missed this year have been off-balance, shot-clock-winding-down 3's.

:laugh:

yoseppii12
11-06-2010, 08:33 PM
Call me crazy, but the OP has a point. I'm a huge Rose fan, but he isn't a great PG. Hes a good PG, there is a difference. He will pass to a guy if hes open, but he always looks to score first. He is more of a slashing combo guard than a traditional get everyone involved kind of PG.

Of course, with his talent he can still be a perennial allstar PG.

-FYI- he is forced into this. He was shooting alot and idk if you heard before the game last night but Thibs told him to shoot even more (already second in attempts in the league).

-As for getting everyone involved he doesn't have that kind of team right now. We signed Boozer because he brings about 20/10 every night. Having Deng (streaky as hell) be your only other scoring option makes it impossible for him to be a tradtional pg. What do people expect him to do? Pass to peopel that miss all the time? (watch his rookie season games if you want to see that)

- Rose is simply someone who does what he is told and does what he needs to do to win the game. The third game of the year vs the Blazers he was getting double the minute he passed half court (like against Boston) he dimed out 13-14 assists and barely took any shots. He definitely can score better than most guards but he can still definitely pass. Look at some of his find this year and youll see it. He doesnt have the team right now.

-All the other good pgs got good teams that can shoot and ahve solid bigs.
Paul- Okafor and West solid bigs and Ariza is good runner with Paul on break.
Dwill- Jefferson and Millsap solid bigs Bell not a bad 3pt shooter
Rondo- ONeal Garnett Perkins solid bigs allen and pierce great shooters/players

-case in point (NASH)- having bad numbers this year because he doesnt have solid bigs

Also if Rose was really 6'3'' (which hes not) or taller than maybe he could be a SG but hes not. He can't guard a SG so hes no SG.

A PG is someone who gets their team in the right position/spots, that can get the open look whether he shoots or he finds the player, someone that is reliable from the free throw line, someone that takes care of the ball and leads a team. I think Rose has most ofthose qualities.

Nevertheless, we have to wait untill Boozers back to see what kind of PG Rose really is. Ritght now none of these games are indicative of what he really is on this team right now because untill they figure out a rotation and the whos doing what and each knows what is expecte dof them then well be a team. Right now Thibs is telling Rose to create while he figures his team out.

And anyone that doesn't think Rose is a top 10 PGs I'd like to see a list of 10 Pgs you would rather have on your team then him?

Sir Buckets
11-06-2010, 08:33 PM
Rose has taken 20 3 pointers this year and hit 5. The poster I was responding to changed Rose's stats to make him a 33% shooter.

Sigh. I took off 2 that weren't "normal" shots, and added 1 fake make to a 0-4 outlier game. Crazy, I know. I should work for a tobacco company or something. I'm a monster.


He then used that to claim that Rose is an average shooter.

I'm just saying, the stats should be taken with a grain of salt. Are you dense?


He claimed that 5 games is not enough to judge Rose's shooting, but then reached the conclusion that Rose is a good shooter based off of less stats (because he dropped some shots). I don't understand that logic. I'm not going to waste anymore time on you. You're unbelievable.

D1JM
11-06-2010, 08:34 PM
Call me crazy, but the OP has a point. I'm a huge Rose fan, but he isn't a great PG. Hes a good PG, there is a difference. He will pass to a guy if hes open, but he always looks to score first. He is more of a slashing combo guard than a traditional get everyone involved kind of PG.

Of course, with his talent he can still be a perennial allstar PG.

He looks to shoot first because he is the bulls best scorer. I don't get how that is so hard to understand.

hugepatsfan
11-06-2010, 08:35 PM
He is a good 3 point shooter, and a great mid range shooter.

A lot of the 3's he's missed this year have been off-balance, shot-clock-winding-down 3's.

How can you say he is a good 3 point shooter. He's only taken 20 shots and he's missed 15 of them. There is no statistic evidence that he can shoot the 3 well. Anyone who says he can is speaking out of their ***.

xxcubs22xx
11-06-2010, 08:37 PM
:laugh:

I didn't know that his .489 FG% last year made you laugh

John Walls Era
11-06-2010, 08:38 PM
-FYI- he is forced into this. He was shooting alot and idk if you heard before the game last night but Thibs told him to shoot even more (already second in attempts in the league).

-As for getting everyone involved he doesn't have that kind of team right now. We signed Boozer because he brings about 20/10 every night. Having Deng (streaky as hell) be your only other scoring option makes it impossible for him to be a tradtional pg. What do people expect him to do? Pass to peopel that miss all the time? (watch his rookie season games if you want to see that)

- Rose is simply someone who does what he is told and does what he needs to do to win the game. The third game of the year vs the Blazers he was getting double the minute he passed half court (like against Boston) he dimed out 13-14 assists and barely took any shots. He definitely can score better than most guards but he can still definitely pass. Look at some of his find this year and youll see it. He doesnt have the team right now.

-All the other good pgs got good teams that can shoot and ahve solid bigs.
Paul- Okafor and West solid bigs and Ariza is good runner with Paul on break.
Dwill- Jefferson and Millsap solid bigs Bell not a bad 3pt shooter
Rondo- ONeal Garnett Perkins solid bigs allen and pierce great shooters/players

-case in point (NASH)- having bad numbers this year because he doesnt have solid bigs

Also if Rose was really 6'3'' (which hes not) or taller than maybe he could be a SG but hes not. He can't guard a SG so hes no SG.

A PG is someone who gets their team in the right position/spots, that can get the open look whether he shoots or he finds the player, someone that is reliable from the free throw line, someone that takes care of the ball and leads a team. I think Rose has most ofthose qualities.

Nevertheless, we have to wait untill Boozers back to see what kind of PG Rose really is. Ritght now none of these games are indicative of what he really is on this team right now because untill they figure out a rotation and the whos doing what and each knows what is expecte dof them then well be a team. Right now Thibs is telling Rose to create while he figures his team out.

And anyone that doesn't think Rose is a top 10 PGs I'd like to see a list of 10 Pgs you would rather have on your team then him?

All I did was say Rose isn't an great PG in the traditional sense. As I've stated, I'm a huge Rose fan. I think hes a top 5 PG easy right now, but I can't rank him among the elite PGs in the past because he brings something different than from what the greats did. The closest comparison I can make would be him and Isiah.

Sir Buckets
11-06-2010, 08:39 PM
Also if Rose was really 6'3'' (which hes not)Actually, I think he is now. Westbrook is like 6' 4" in shoes, and at the end of the Thunder game him and Rose went up to each other at the end of the game and they were almost the exact same height (Rose maybe was like an inch shorter -- tops). It's not unheard of for players to grow after entering the league.

John Walls Era
11-06-2010, 08:39 PM
I didn't know that his .489 FG% last year made you laugh

No I was laughing at the part where you called him a good 3 pt shooter.

hugepatsfan
11-06-2010, 08:40 PM
Sigh. I took off 2 that weren't "normal" shots, and added 1 fake make to a 0-4 outlier game. Crazy, I know. I should work for a tobacco company or something. I'm a monster.



I'm just saying, the stats should be taken with a grain of salt. Are you dense?

I'm not going to waste anymore time on you. You're unbelievable.

If Ray Allen was 5-20, you take the stats w/ a grain of salt. He has a track record of being great at shooting the 3. But Derrick Rose has not shot the 3 well this year and has never shot it weill in his career. You cannot call him a great 3 point shooter just because he said he practiced it a lot in the offseason. Rondo said he did a lot of work on FTs w/ Mark Price last offseason and he still sucks at them. I know Rose imroved his mid range game. But that doesn't mean he can fix everyone of his weaknesses. Until he proves on the court that it is no longer a weakness, 3 point shooting is a weakness of his.

JB0B0
11-06-2010, 08:40 PM
Derrick Rose is a beast! When is he a free agent? I hope the Lakers sign him. When Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and Ron Artest are free agents

Unlike LeBron, Rose wants to bring a title to his hometown.

xxcubs22xx
11-06-2010, 08:43 PM
:eyebrow:

he's 2-6 in his last 2 games from three, hows that for a statistic :laugh2:

But seriously, he will show that he's a much improved 3 point shooter.

Ezekial
11-06-2010, 08:43 PM
I watched the Knicks - Bulls game the other night and I took a good look at DR to gather my own facts and perception of him as a player. I don't see him that much being a Knick fan but what I noticed ......I personally think him playing PG is taking away from his overall game. IMO he is not a top 10 PG. He may be a top 10 player but not a top 10 PG. There is a difference. DR is a combo guard, he is not the best ball handler and he is not good on defense at all. Felton was blowing by him all night and Felton is husky and slow. He has a deceit jump shot but he is a streaky player. As a PG he rarely got a pass for a spot up shot most of his jump shots was off the dribble. He is to good of a scorer to stay at PG. His passing abilities are average at best but if you're a scorer his assist should be down but as a PG he is expected to get high assist ....he should be receiving instead of dishing the basketball. So basically I think he should be a starting SG.

this is why is not considered to be a legitimate MVP candidate. Thoughts????.........BTW that dunk was unbelievable .....as a two guard he could get a lot more of those but he's busy passing the ball to guys like James Johnson and Deng.

You gathered all of this in a game where he put up 24 points, 14 assists, and committed 3 turnovers?

Ya he can't pass or handle the ball :facepalm:

yoseppii12
11-06-2010, 08:44 PM
All I did was say Rose isn't an great PG in the traditional sense. As I've stated, I'm a huge Rose fan. I think hes a top 5 PG easy right now, but I can't rank him among the elite PGs in the past because he brings something different than from what the greats did. The closest comparison I can make would be him and Isiah.

Yeah definitely he has a long time before he becomes an elite pg ever.

Also not gonna lie, lost some respect for him for not being able to get a shot off at the end of a quarter twice last night. Obviously, at the end of the game was by far the worst.

Aussy4GM
11-06-2010, 08:45 PM
Derrick Rose is the best scoring point guard in the NBA. No Doubt about it. He also gets between 6-12 assists a game. People still fail to realize that he is very very young, and on a team that has NO CONSISTENT SCORERS until Boozer gets back. He puts up 20 shots per game because he has to. and for all of you rondo dick riders, Rondo would be lost on this bulls team. the only dimension to his game is passing. he would average about 8 assists tops on the bulls without boozer. i just dont see what you people are trying to prove here. rose has the ability to put up 30 points 10 dimes and 5 boards and just because of that he is not a good PG? who gives a ****. LeBron gets way more assists than the average SF. and this year he isnt scoring as much as a normal SF. does that make him a bad 3? common now you idiots. open up your eyes and get off the Rondick. and for those who are over-exadurating a good game for tony douglas as "terrible D" by rose are a bunch of clowns too. Rose was playing 1 on 5 that whole game and Douglas was tossing up a bunch of CONTESTED threes that happened to be graced by the great gods above. half of those shots were fade aways with hands in the face. Not terrible D but Good/Lucky O.

Hoopsadvocate
11-06-2010, 08:45 PM
Unlike LeBron, Rose wants to bring a title to his hometown.

He could want to all he wants its not happening any time soon.

John Walls Era
11-06-2010, 08:45 PM
:eyebrow:

he's 2-6 in his last 2 games from three, hows that for a statisticf :laugh2:

But seriously, he will show that he's a much improved 3 point shooter.

I thought you were going to impress me. Just 33% and in such a small sample size too.

PS: Jesus... I said Rose was a great player and people still argue. Sorry if I didn't call him a top 5 player and the best PG in the league right now.

xxcubs22xx
11-06-2010, 08:47 PM
He could want to all he wants its not happening any time soon.

The Heat are no closer

yoseppii12
11-06-2010, 08:48 PM
You gathered all of this in a game where he put up 24 points, 14 assists, and committed 3 turnovers?

Ya he can't pass or handle the ball :facepalm:

ya cant handle the ball lol thats a joke. Hes the fastest player in the league when he dribbles and has the ball in his hand.

I swear if this supposed rumor with charlotte is true, I say grab Stephen Jackson. Older guy turn him into straight gunner from 3 and give him to Rose. Once Boozer is back we would be unstoppable. (i heard jackson wants out!) Idk what we would have to give for jackson though, JJ, Ronnie Brewer, and a pick? Idk if salaries work but if he wants out we should be able to get him for less. **** we gave up Tyrus who has tremendous upside if he can figure his **** out for only a 1st round protected pick

D1JM
11-06-2010, 08:56 PM
Just accept it rose sucks cuz he isn't perfect.

nstachowski
11-06-2010, 09:08 PM
Hopefully Derrick will become more of a traditional PG when Boozer comes back and some of the pressure gets taken off of him.

D Roses Bulls
11-06-2010, 09:16 PM
rose shouldnt make the all star team, hell, why is that man starting. he sucks...... hes only averaging 10 assists a game while still putting up 27 points a game. the bulls need to trade him.

daricoliver
11-06-2010, 09:22 PM
Some absolutely ridiculous posts here. People put way too much emphasis on assists. Absolutely, you want to facilitate the teams offense. But if you can score 26 points a game and have 8 assists per game, you are accounting for 42 points. If you only score 12 points a game like Rondo or Nash, you need to 14 assists every night to be in the equivalent range. Rose is a great player. He will only get better.

JiffyMix88
11-06-2010, 09:34 PM
I...I....I...Don't know what to say.....

John Walls Era
11-06-2010, 09:36 PM
rose shouldnt make the all star team, hell, why is that man starting. he sucks...... hes only averaging 10 assists a game while still putting up 27 points a game. the bulls need to trade him.

I can't see him worth anything more than a 2nd rounder :p

jokes..

hugepatsfan
11-06-2010, 09:51 PM
Just accept it rose sucks cuz he isn't perfect.

Just accpept that he isn't perfect. All the Rose "hate" is really just people trying to help Bulls fans grasp the concept that Rose is not an all time great right now.

ackar
11-06-2010, 10:18 PM
I watched the Knicks - Bulls game the other night and I took a good look at DR to gather my own facts and perception of him as a player. I don't see him that much being a Knick fan but what I noticed ......I personally think him playing PG is taking away from his overall game. IMO he is not a top 10 PG. He may be a top 10 player but not a top 10 PG. There is a difference. DR is a combo guard, he is not the best ball handler and he is not good on defense at all. Felton was blowing by him all night and Felton is husky and slow. He has a deceit jump shot but he is a streaky player. As a PG he rarely got a pass for a spot up shot most of his jump shots was off the dribble. He is to good of a scorer to stay at PG. His passing abilities are average at best but if you're a scorer his assist should be down but as a PG he is expected to get high assist ....he should be receiving instead of dishing the basketball. So basically I think he should be a starting SG.

this is why is not considered to be a legitimate MVP candidate. Thoughts????.........BTW that dunk was unbelievable .....as a two guard he could get a lot more of those but he's busy passing the ball to guys like James Johnson and Deng.

I kinda of agree I know it we are not suppose to since you are a knicks fan but I agree somewhat. However i think Dr needs to stay at the one and be DR. If that means score 30 a night and 8 assist so be. his "D" will fantastic i think the knicks game showed he is still a young player and has a ways to go with his defense and even his decision making. He should have easily beasted Felton but he ws tentative defensively well the whole teams was I have to give it the knicks their game plan and shooting was flawless. DR will be more than fine he will be top 3 one day hopefully. I always scream at dR to shoot more lol right now he needs too.

KG2TB
11-06-2010, 10:25 PM
Just accpept that he isn't perfect. All the Rose "hate" is really just people trying to help Bulls fans grasp the concept that Rose is not an all time great right now.

:laugh2:

No one is saying Rose is an all-time great. It's just pretty awesome that he's only 22 and is getting better every year. With his work ethic and progression year by year, you could see why Bulls fans are excited about this kids future.

D1JM
11-06-2010, 10:29 PM
Just accpept that he isn't perfect. All the Rose "hate" is really just people trying to help Bulls fans grasp the concept that Rose is not an all time great right now.

I don't see it as hate if you point out rose's weakness. I never said rose was perfect. I don't know a player that is perfect because everyone can improve in something. For example, Rondo is in his fifth year and he still hasn't developed a jumpshot! However, he doesnt need one because in his team all he has to worry about is create and pass it to three H. Fame players. So one of his weakness isnt really exposed as much. If you put rose in that team, you think he is going to worry about scoring?

bbcmillionaire
11-06-2010, 11:02 PM
Lol well as a die hard bulls fan, imma leave this one alone, it has bait written all on it

Bullsfan22
11-06-2010, 11:15 PM
This thread was made by a knicks fan that based his opinion on rose from one game (where he went 24 and 14) and is filled with people crying about:

1. another rose thread as if a Bulls fan made it..

2. a thread for opposing fans with a good point guard to bash rose...

3. To get sensitive Bulls fans to cry about what someone says about their favorite player.

Why not just make this thread in the bulls forum? same group of people that like bash rose any chance they get are the ones that's replying to this thread.

JiffyMix88
11-06-2010, 11:17 PM
I think the bulls could work out a trade for rose and 2 1st round draft picks in exchange for Felton and Chandler, or r they giving up too much?

Bullsfan22
11-06-2010, 11:22 PM
Just accpept that he isn't perfect. All the Rose "hate" is really just people trying to help Bulls fans grasp the concept that Rose is not an all time great right now.

This is when you lose all credibility for posting in this thread.. What Bulls fan think he's perfect? :rolleyes:

Like I said in another thread about rose and browse the game thread and your logic about bulls fans will be proven wrong quickly. When he stinks it up the majority of us don't hesitate to say it. we sometimes are Roses hardest critics because we expect so much out of him.

D Roses Bulls
11-06-2010, 11:49 PM
This thread was made by a knicks fan that based his opinion on rose from one game (where he went 24 and 14) and is filled with people crying about:

1. another rose thread as if a Bulls fan made it..

2. a thread for opposing fans with a good point guard to bash rose...

3. To get sensitive Bulls fans to cry about what someone says about their favorite player.

Why not just make this thread in the bulls forum? same group of people that like bash rose any chance they get are the ones that's replying to this thread.

If this was a thread about lebron it would of been closed.

Wilson
11-06-2010, 11:57 PM
I've not read through all of this thread yet but people screaming hate thread need to relax. The OP didn't come out and just say Rose sucks, he just said he may fit better in a different position. Feel free to debate that, but that isn't hate.

In fact the OP had another post on the first page where he said that he thought Rose could be Kobe Bryant like at the SG position - that's hardly hate.

So please, relax guys.

D Roses Bulls
11-07-2010, 12:06 AM
I've not read through all of this thread yet but people screaming hate thread need to relax. The OP didn't come out and just say Rose sucks, he just said he may fit better in a different position. Feel free to debate that, but that isn't hate.

In fact the OP had another post on the first page where he said that he thought Rose could be Kobe Bryant like at the SG position - that's hardly hate.

So please, relax guys.

some people are just at awe over this thread because the OP is saying he doesnt see rose as a true point pretty much. which is what some people are getting riled up about because the man doesnt have his star pf and is still averaging 10 assists a game while not turning the ball over as much while being the main ball handler and also having to do much of the scoring right now. we know (well i know the op) isnt saying derrick rose sucks all together, but i do think his claim is a little crazy that rose isnt a true pg or he doesnt see rose as a true pg.

hey at least bulls fans arnt hollering and complaining for this thread to be closed. i never reported this thread and im sure most of my fellow bulls fan arnt immature enough to report this thread either.

Jonathan2323
11-07-2010, 12:11 AM
he's a wade clone. he makes so much sexy layups. i suggested the idea moving him to sg but alot bulls fans dont think its a good idea. but he can play both positions thats why rose and hinrich duo worked so welll.

Please dont compare Rose to Wade. Wade is better offensively and its not even close defensively. Wade is a way more complete player.

Kashmir13579
11-07-2010, 12:42 AM
Have you seen how bad our offense is without Rose? No one can create a shot for themselves. Do you really want Bogans or Brewer shooting?

against the Knicks you guys came back when he was on the bench.

nitric
11-07-2010, 12:52 AM
against the Knicks you guys came back when he was on the bench.

One game sample is always great stuff :cool:

DaBear
11-07-2010, 01:09 AM
To the OP: Try to watch more games if you're going to judge a player because judging him off one game rely takes your credibility away. Streaky shooter? LOL yeah right.

hugepatsfan
11-07-2010, 01:10 AM
[/B]
This is when you lose all credibility for posting in this thread.. What Bulls fan think he's perfect? :rolleyes:

Like I said in another thread about rose and browse the game thread and your logic about bulls fans will be proven wrong quickly. When he stinks it up the majority of us don't hesitate to say it. we sometimes are Roses hardest critics because we expect so much out of him.

Rose is not a great 3 point shooter. Would you agree? Well one Bulls fan in here said that we should look at Rose's 5-20 3 pt shooting as 33% because he dropped 2 buzzer beater heaves and added 1 make to account for an 0-4 "outlier game."." He says that 33% is average so we should call Rose an average shooter. That's a ridiculous argument. That's manipulating stats because he refuses to admit that Rose has a weakness.

I ranked Rondo ahead of Rose because Rondo contributes on offense AND defense. But one Bulls fan told me that wasn't fair. He said Rose has the ability to improve on D and, under a great defensive coach, will get better. So he said my argument was wrong. No it wasn't - how does his potential to get better change the fact that he is a poor defender right now. When determining the better player at the moment, you use what they are, not what they will be. Again, he refused to admit that Rose has a weakness on the defensive end.

I'm sure that not all Bulls fans are like this. But there are so many Rose dickriders that it gives you all a bad name as ignorant homers wearing Rose colored glasses (lol).

sargon21
11-07-2010, 01:15 AM
Rose is not a great 3 point shooter. Would you agree? Well one Bulls fan in here said that we should look at Rose's 5-20 3 pt shooting as 33% because he dropped 2 buzzer beater heaves and added 1 make to account for an 0-4 "outlier game."." He says that 33% is average so we should call Rose an average shooter. That's a ridiculous argument. That's manipulating stats because he refuses to admit that Rose has a weakness.

I ranked Rondo ahead of Rose because Rondo contributes on offense AND defense. But one Bulls fan told me that wasn't fair. He said Rose has the ability to improve on D and, under a great defensive coach, will get better. So he said my argument was wrong. No it wasn't - how does his potential to get better change the fact that he is a poor defender right now. When determining the better player at the moment, you use what they are, not what they will be. Again, he refused to admit that Rose has a weakness on the defensive end.

I'm sure that not all Bulls fans are like this. But there are so many Rose dickriders that it gives you all a bad name as ignorant homers wearing Rose colored glasses (lol).

Yeah, Rose is clearly not a great 3 point shooter. I'm hoping for him to get to around 30-31% on the year which would be a great improvement from last year, and make it even harder to defend him. Also, Rose's defense will without a doubt improve now with Thibs coaching us, can one even disagree with that?

DaBear
11-07-2010, 01:16 AM
Rose is not a great 3 point shooter. Would you agree? Well one Bulls fan in here said that we should look at Rose's 5-20 3 pt shooting as 33% because he dropped 2 buzzer beater heaves and added 1 make to account for an 0-4 "outlier game."." He says that 33% is average so we should call Rose an average shooter. That's a ridiculous argument. That's manipulating stats because he refuses to admit that Rose has a weakness.

I ranked Rondo ahead of Rose because Rondo contributes on offense AND defense. But one Bulls fan told me that wasn't fair. He said Rose has the ability to improve on D and, under a great defensive coach, will get better. So he said my argument was wrong. No it wasn't - how does his potential to get better change the fact that he is a poor defender right now. When determining the better player at the moment, you use what they are, not what they will be. Again, he refused to admit that Rose has a weakness on the defensive end.

I'm sure that not all Bulls fans are like this. But there are so many Rose dickriders that it gives you all a bad name as ignorant homers wearing Rose colored glasses (lol).

Same could be said about Rondo dickriders who think he's better than Rose at everything. Rondo is a better PG, but Rose is a better player. Argue that, and you fall in that category.

DaBear
11-07-2010, 01:17 AM
against the Knicks you guys came back when he was on the bench.

That indicates how bad the Knicks are buddy.

hugepatsfan
11-07-2010, 01:32 AM
Same could be said about Rondo dickriders who think he's better than Rose at everything. Rondo is a better PG, but Rose is a better player. Argue that, and you fall in that category.

I think Rondo has better court vision and passing ability. But Rose is a better shooter and finisher at the rim. Rondo's defense and rebounding are obviously better.

I think it's hard to say who is a better overall player. They're so different. I think both are great at what they do - Rondo is a facilitator that can score if need be and Rose is a gifted scorer that can run an offense effectively. I think it's much easier to build a team around a player like Rose, but that doesn't mean he's better.

SeoulBeatz
11-07-2010, 01:34 AM
I watched the Knicks - Bulls game the other night and I took a good look at DR to gather my own facts and perception of him as a player. I don't see him that much being a Knick fan but what I noticed ......I personally think him playing PG is taking away from his overall game. IMO he is not a top 10 PG. He may be a top 10 player but not a top 10 PG. There is a difference. DR is a combo guard, he is not the best ball handler and he is not good on defense at all. Felton was blowing by him all night and Felton is husky and slow. He has a deceit jump shot but he is a streaky player. As a PG he rarely got a pass for a spot up shot most of his jump shots was off the dribble. He is to good of a scorer to stay at PG. His passing abilities are average at best but if you're a scorer his assist should be down but as a PG he is expected to get high assist ....he should be receiving instead of dishing the basketball. So basically I think he should be a starting SG.

this is why is not considered to be a legitimate MVP candidate. Thoughts????.........BTW that dunk was unbelievable .....as a two guard he could get a lot more of those but he's busy passing the ball to guys like James Johnson and Deng.

Completely agree.

D Rose really reminds me of Iverson.

Pair him with a big PG who can shoot the 3 and you're set.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 01:57 AM
Completely agree.

D Rose really reminds me of Iverson.

Pair him with a big PG who can shoot the 3 and you're set.

In the words of my man Stacey King...STOP IT! JUST STOP!!

Sir Buckets
11-07-2010, 02:23 AM
Rose is not a great 3 point shooter. Would you agree?

Yes.


Well one Bulls fan in here said that we should look at Rose's 5-20 3 pt shooting as 33% because he dropped 2 buzzer beater heaves and added 1 make to account for an 0-4 "outlier game."." He says that 33% is average so we should call Rose an average shooter. That's a ridiculous argument. That's manipulating stats because he refuses to admit that Rose has a weakness.How on earth is that a ridiculous argument? These early season 3 point stats can sway very easily, and I was just trying to smooth it out a bit. I'm not saying he should be shooting 33%; I'm not trying to change what he shot. I'm simply pointing out that while he is shooting 25% so far, you should take it with a grain of salt. My god. Is this that hard to understand?


I ranked Rondo ahead of Rose because Rondo contributes on offense AND defense. But one Bulls fan told me that wasn't fair. He said Rose has the ability to improve on D and, under a great defensive coach, will get better. So he said my argument was wrong. No it wasn't - how does his potential to get better change the fact that he is a poor defender right now. When determining the better player at the moment, you use what they are, not what they will be. Again, he refused to admit that Rose has a weakness on the defensive end.Are you talking about me? If so, you're borderline delusional.


I'm sure that not all Bulls fans are like this. But there are so many Rose dickriders that it gives you all a bad name as ignorant homers wearing Rose colored glasses (lol).It's easy to look like a "dickrider" when there are so many ignorant neanderthals out there who don't know the first thing about Rose and spew their biased, uninformed opinions at every chance they get.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 02:26 AM
It's easy to look like a "dickrider" when there are so many ignorant neanderthals out there who don't know the first thing about Rose and spew their biased, uninformed opinions at every chance they get.

Like the OP who creates a thread saying he'd be a better SG than a PG after he drops 24 points and FOURTEEN ASSISTS on his team :facepalm:

hugepatsfan
11-07-2010, 02:39 AM
Yes.

How on earth is that a ridiculous argument? These early season 3 point stats can sway very easily, and I was just trying to smooth it out a bit. I'm not saying he should be shooting 33%; I'm not trying to change what he shot. I'm simply pointing out that while he is shooting 25% so far, you should take it with a grain of salt. My god. Is this that hard to understand?

Are you talking about me? If so, you're borderline delusional.

It's easy to look like a "dickrider" when there are so many ignorant neanderthals out there who don't know the first thing about Rose and spew their biased, uninformed opinions at every chance they get.

1.) Derrick Rose is shooting 25% from 3 this year. His career %: 24%. Sometimes early season stats can be deceiving, but not in this case. His % this year is the same as his career. Rose is 5-11 in 2 games and 0-9 in the other 2. So I guess he has shot it well in some games. But that's the exception - not the rule.

2.) I was referring to another Bulls fan about this - not you.

3.) I understand this. When you have to constantly defend Rose against idiots that don;t think he is a PG, I can see how it makes you look like a dickrider.

And let me be clear - I'm a huge fan of Rose the player. Earlier in this thread i pointed out how I think the OP is dead wrong and how I think Rose is a great PG. But it works both ways. When someone says something good or bad about a player that isn't true, I correct them and give my opinion.

hugepatsfan
11-07-2010, 02:48 AM
Completely agree.

D Rose really reminds me of Iverson.

Pair him with a big PG who can shoot the 3 and you're set.

D Rose is a great PG. You don't need to be pass first to be a great PG. Rose is a gifted scorer. What CHI needs to do IMO is get a better scorer at SF. Deng is good, but he can't create his own shot. They need a guy that can. Then at SG, they need a guy who can do 2 things - shoot the 3 and defend. Nothing else is necessary. Add those 2 things Noah, Booz, and Rose and CHI will be right up there w/ MIA for the next 6 years.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 02:51 AM
D Rose is a great PG. You don't need to be pass first to be a great PG. Rose is a gifted scorer. What CHI needs to do IMO is get a better scorer at SF. Deng is good, but he can't create his own shot. They need a guy that can. Then at SG, they need a guy who can do 2 things - shoot the 3 and defend. Nothing else is necessary. Add those 2 things Noah, Booz, and Rose and CHI will be right up there w/ MIA for the next 6 years.

Easier said then done :cool:

That's why the Melo idea is so attractive, but in reality it's a longshot, because we would lose a major advatage over Miam if we had to give up Noah, which the Bulls rightfully won't do.

But, who could we get at that SF postion, Granger?, any other options that you can think of?

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 02:55 AM
D Rose is a great PG. You don't need to be pass first to be a great PG. Rose is a gifted scorer. What CHI needs to do IMO is get a better scorer at SF. Deng is good, but he can't create his own shot. They need a guy that can. Then at SG, they need a guy who can do 2 things - shoot the 3 and defend. Nothing else is necessary. Add those 2 things Noah, Booz, and Rose and CHI will be right up there w/ MIA for the next 6 years.

If we can't get Melo, then Deng is just fine. We'd just need a SG that can create his own shot, shoot the 3 and defend. Someone like Jason Richardson. Deng would excel as the 4th option and his defense at the 3 would be way more valuable at that point than his offense.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 02:59 AM
Easier said then done :cool:

That's why the Melo idea is so attractive, but in reality it's a longshot, because we would lose a major advatage over Miam if we had to give up Noah, which the Bulls rightfully won't do.

But, who could we get at that SF postion, Granger?, any other options that you can think of?

I think Indiana values Granger more than Denver does Melo. So ya, no.

hugepatsfan
11-07-2010, 02:59 AM
If we can't get Melo, then Deng is just fine. We'd just need a SG that can create his own shot, shoot the 3 and defend. Someone like Jason Richardson. Deng would excel as the 4th option and his defense at the 3 would be way more valuable at that point than his offense.

J-Rich isn't a bad idea. Stephen Jackson wouldn't be a bad idea either.

chitownbears89
11-07-2010, 03:00 AM
D Rose is a great PG. You don't need to be pass first to be a great PG. Rose is a gifted scorer. What CHI needs to do IMO is get a better scorer at SF. Deng is good, but he can't create his own shot. They need a guy that can. Then at SG, they need a guy who can do 2 things - shoot the 3 and defend. Nothing else is necessary. Add those 2 things Noah, Booz, and Rose and CHI will be right up there w/ MIA for the next 6 years.

I agree he is not the best defender. But I wouldn't put him at a liability. Its not everyday that teams have a near 70% 3 pt percentage. That is something he does need to work on i agree with you there. But he is a pg. I dont care what other people say. I bet everyone here would love to have him on there team. Haters are just going to hate. And it doesn't help to have so many stupid bulls fans on the site either.

hugepatsfan
11-07-2010, 03:02 AM
Easier said then done :cool:

That's why the Melo idea is so attractive, but in reality it's a longshot, because we would lose a major advatage over Miam if we had to give up Noah, which the Bulls rightfully won't do.

But, who could we get at that SF postion, Granger?, any other options that you can think of?

If I were CHI, I'd give up Noah for Melo. Noah is an awesome C to play w/ Rose and next to Booz. But it's easier to find a tough defensive minded C for the MLE than it is to find a stud scorer like Melo. What about this: trade Noah as part of a package for Melo and then sign Kendrick Perkins as a FA after the season for the MLE. He is a great fit w/ Tibs.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 03:02 AM
J-Rich isn't a bad idea. Stephen Jackson wouldn't be a bad idea either.

I was gonna mention Stephen Jackson, but he wouldn't be a long-term solution. If we could acquire him without giving Charlotte back their draft pick they gave us for Tyrus Thomas then I'll be all for it cuz we can draft a SG with that likely high pick and let him develop.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 03:02 AM
I think Indiana values Granger more than Denver does Melo. So ya, no.

Indiana isn't going anywhere with Granger. They just drafted Paul George at the same position, so we'll see.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 03:06 AM
If I were CHI, I'd give up Noah for Melo. Noah is an awesome C to play w/ Rose and next to Booz. But it's easier to find a tough defensive minded C for the MLE than it is to find a stud scorer like Melo. What about this: trade Noah as part of a package for Melo and then sign Kendrick Perkins as a FA after the season for the MLE. He is a great fit w/ Tibs.

I wouldn't. Noah just has the intangibles that you will not find in many big men and definitely cannot teach. This guy just brings so much intensity every single game that it really makes a positive impact on the team, which fans outside of Chicago wouldn't know because they don't watch every Bulls game like we do. The guy is something else and this year his numbers will show it because he could very well lead the league in rebounding.

Besides if you take out Noah, you take out the only advantage we have over a team like Miami and you also make us weaker against a team like Boston and Orlando. Size wins championships as the Lakers and Celtics have proved.

hugepatsfan
11-07-2010, 03:06 AM
Indiana isn't going anywhere with Granger. They just drafted Paul George at the same position, so we'll see.

What can CHI offer IND though? They already have a good young C in Hibbert, so Noah isn't as valuable to them as he is DEN. CHI doesn't have a lot of tradeable assets besides Noah.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 03:09 AM
Indiana isn't going anywhere with Granger. They just drafted Paul George at the same position, so we'll see.

Ya but it seems like teams have been scared to even ask about Granger cuz they'll be asking for an arm and a leg. But of course the more they continue to suck, the more Granger gets frustrated because he can be a huge star in a big market, the more pressure he'll put on the Pacers to trade him.

cubs0707
11-07-2010, 03:10 AM
I watched the Knicks - Bulls game the other night and I took a good look at DR to gather my own facts and perception of him as a player. I don't see him that much being a Knick fan but what I noticed ......I personally think him playing PG is taking away from his overall game. IMO he is not a top 10 PG. He may be a top 10 player but not a top 10 PG. There is a difference. DR is a combo guard, he is not the best ball handler and he is not good on defense at all. Felton was blowing by him all night and Felton is husky and slow. He has a deceit jump shot but he is a streaky player. As a PG he rarely got a pass for a spot up shot most of his jump shots was off the dribble. He is to good of a scorer to stay at PG. His passing abilities are average at best but if you're a scorer his assist should be down but as a PG he is expected to get high assist ....he should be receiving instead of dishing the basketball. So basically I think he should be a starting SG.

this is why is not considered to be a legitimate MVP candidate. Thoughts????.........BTW that dunk was unbelievable .....as a two guard he could get a lot more of those but he's busy passing the ball to guys like James Johnson and Deng.

:facepalm:
hes one of the best midrange shooter in the game, an he had 14 ast so i dont really understand your point

abe_froman
11-07-2010, 03:13 AM
If I were CHI, I'd give up Noah for Melo. Noah is an awesome C to play w/ Rose and next to Booz. But it's easier to find a tough defensive minded C for the MLE than it is to find a stud scorer like Melo. What about this: trade Noah as part of a package for Melo and then sign Kendrick Perkins as a FA after the season for the MLE. He is a great fit w/ Tibs.

thats easier said than done,saying just sign perk as if you guys wont try and neither will any other club(and yes he will be getting more than the mle).see thats the flaw in any fan scenario about just getting a guy in f.a.,it is a guarantee that the player is thinking the exact same way as you and following what you want him to do.

and good,young centers are difficult to get...its why that position is overpaid.you can teach someone to shoot,you cant teach them to be taller.

Chisweetness34
11-07-2010, 03:13 AM
I agree that eveything is set up for him to improve. But he isn't a great defender yet. He doesn't contribute on both ends. Bulls fans are singing his praises too early.

He is our future. What do you want us to do complain and belittle him?

Sir Buckets
11-07-2010, 03:15 AM
1.) Derrick Rose is shooting 25% from 3 this year. His career %: 24%. Sometimes early season stats can be deceiving, but not in this case. His % this year is the same as his career. Rose is 5-11 in 2 games and 0-9 in the other 2. So I guess he has shot it well in some games. But that's the exception - not the rule.It's kind of been that situation where, like, a kid gets a new toy and all he wants to do is play with it. Rose put in countless hours this summer developing his three. He shoots them during shootaround. After timeouts. During breaks in commerical shoots. When playing against kids in his camp. Undoubtedly, if you put so much work into something, you want to test it out. Now, while I love and will continue to encourage this newfound confidence in his 3 ball, his shot selection from downtown has been a bit questionable at certain times. I expect him to pick his spots better and limit those "bad" shots; maybe he's just gotta get the new shiny 3 out of his system, so to speak.

We can look at %s all we want, but this early into the year, they don't mean a whole lot. What matters though, is that they pass the eye test. He's hitting them when superstars hit them (3 pointer to send the Mavs game into OT, a pull-up semi-transition 3 with a dude right on him, during a loose-ball scramble with the shot clock winding down, etc.)


2.) I was referring to another Bulls fan about this - not you.Ah, my bad lol


3.) I understand this. When you have to constantly defend Rose against idiots that don;t think he is a PG, I can see how it makes you look like a dickrider.It's not even just that. Like, how can such a good kid/exciting player get so much hate, you know?


And let me be clear - I'm a huge fan of Rose the player. Earlier in this thread i pointed out how I think the OP is dead wrong and how I think Rose is a great PG. But it works both ways. When someone says something good or bad about a player that isn't true, I correct them and give my opinion.And I respect that. But, he'll shoot equal to or above 30% from downtown this season :p. If you watched all of the Bulls games so far, and didn't just look at raw stats, you'd agree :)

redsox0717
11-07-2010, 03:18 AM
:facepalm:
hes one of the best midrange shooter in the game, an he had 14 ast so i dont really understand your point

:laugh:

Southsideheat
11-07-2010, 03:20 AM
Comparing Rondo to Rose is like comparing a Phillips screwdriver with a regular screwdriver. They are both really good tools that do different things. How can you argue that one is better than the other?

sargon21
11-07-2010, 03:21 AM
:laugh:

Best mid-range shooting PG in the league last year, efficiency and volume wise, want me to post the stats?

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 03:24 AM
:laugh:

Just cuz your boy Rondo can't shoot doesn't mean you need to laugh at what clearly is a fact about Rose having a great midrange shot, something he's worked hard on over the past 2 years.

redsox0717
11-07-2010, 03:24 AM
Best mid-range shooting PG in the league last year, efficiency and volume wise, want me to post the stats?

Do you want me to post the definition of small sample size?

sargon21
11-07-2010, 03:24 AM
From last year, all you ****in haters better see this:

Derrick Rose is the Best PG Midrange Shooter This Year

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Statistics taken from Hoopdata. Taken from Players ranked as PGs, playing in >40 games this year.

Yep. He really is the best midranger shooter at PG in the league.


Quote:
From 10 feet and in (basically, floater range): Derrick Rose shoots the most attempts of any PG, makes the most, and has the best FG%. Outside of Mike Bibby, but that guy's taken 20 of those shots the entire year. He's the best at his position at this. 1st in this area.

From 10-15 feet: Tied with Chris Paul for most makes per game in this area, with Chris Paul shooting a slightly superior 51.5% to Rose's 49.7%. Steve Nash shoots a 55% from this area. So Rose is probably 3rd best in this area.

From 16-23 feet: Derrick Rose leads all PGs in attempts and makes per game (by far), tied for 5th in FG% at 44.0%. Takes 7 a game, makes 3, the only person with similar volume is Paul with 5 attempts at 45.0% FG%. Nash outpaces all other PGs shooting this shot at 46% accuracy. #5 in this area- all the players he's tied with are not nearly as high volume as he is.
http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.as...&gp=40&mins=25

He's not just become a "solid" midrange shooter. Or a "good" midrange shooter. He's inarguably top 3 at the position, and arguably the best considering shot volume. He's an ELITE midrange shooter, at only his 2nd year in the league.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 03:25 AM
Best mid-range shooting PG in the league last year, efficiency and volume wise, want me to post the stats?

Don't ask em. Just post it.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 03:25 AM
Do you want me to post the definition of small sample size?

Look down, because you just got raped :laugh2:

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 03:27 AM
Do you want me to post the definition of small sample size?

Small sample size? Seriously? A WHOLE season is considered SMALL sample size to you? :facepalm:

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 03:27 AM
Sargon, fix the link bro..lol

redsox0717
11-07-2010, 03:30 AM
And even if you are jizzing over his mid range shooting stats from last year, that doesn't change the fact that this year and last year Rondo is killing him in terms of FG%. Plus this year Rose only has like double the 3's made than Rondo in 5 times as many attempts, wow what a great shooter he is.

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 03:30 AM
Comparing Rondo to Rose is like comparing a Phillips screwdriver with a regular screwdriver. They are both really good tools that do different things. How can you argue that one is better than the other?

How about this, we just start evaluating Rondo AFTER the Big 3 are washed up and moved on and the Celtics have Bulls level of talent surrounding Rondo. Right now its just not fair to Rose.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 03:30 AM
Sargon, fix the link bro..lol

Haha, I think they took it down, but that was copied and pasted from a thread last year, I don't know if this helps but here's that thread.. http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=475759&highlight=Derrick+Rose+Mid-range

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 03:32 AM
And even if you are jizzing over his mid range shooting stats from last year, that doesn't change the fact that this year and last year Rondo is killing him in terms of FG%. Plus this year Rose only has like double the 3's made than Rondo in 5 times as many attempts, wow what a great shooter he is.

First compare the number of shot attempts and then make a comment like that. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. :facepalm:

sargon21
11-07-2010, 03:34 AM
And even if you are jizzing over his mid range shooting stats from last year, that doesn't change the fact that this year and last year Rondo is killing him in terms of FG%. Plus this year Rose only has like double the 3's made than Rondo in 5 times as many attempts, wow what a great shooter he is.

First, you say I was using a small sample size, and then I rape you and you won't admit your wrong. And then you do exactly what you didn't want me to do lol

Red222
11-07-2010, 03:35 AM
you guys took the bait you cant have an actual intelligent conversation with people here about rose.:rolleyes:

Sir Buckets
11-07-2010, 03:37 AM
First, you say I was using a small sample size, and then I rape you and you won't admit your wrong. And then you do exactly what you didn't want me to do lolBeat me to it, lol.

On one hand, I hate that some people are still so ignorant about some parts of his game. On the other hand, whenever some smartass comes in with his "LOLOL HE CAN'T SHOOT" stuff, it's like, buckle up, 'cause the rape train's 'a comin' (man that's a lot of apostrophes)

ChI_ShIzzLe
11-07-2010, 03:39 AM
you guys took the bait you cant have an actual intelligent conversation with people here about rose.:rolleyes:

I mean, I understand if people would post some actual STATS and then present a reasonable argument against them. But to just make a thread for the hell of it and say he's not capable of being a top 10 PG without legitimately proving to us as to WHY...I just don't get it, I honestly don't, the hate must be agonizing to some people..my goodness.

Red222
11-07-2010, 03:41 AM
I mean, I understand if people would post some actual STATS and then present a reasonable argument against them. But to just make a thread for the hell of it and say he's not capable of being a top 10 PG without legitimately proving to us as to WHY...I just don't get it, I honestly don't, the hate must be agonizing to some people..my goodness.

not sure if you dont want to have a discussion dont click the thread simple

Baller1
11-07-2010, 03:41 AM
I think I might just avoid this one.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 04:18 AM
I think I might just avoid this one.

Avoid what? I proved that Rose was the best mid-range shooting PG in the league last year, simple as that.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 04:19 AM
you guys took the bait you cant have an actual intelligent conversation with people here about rose.:rolleyes:

I don't really know what you're saying Red, but I usually don't respond to Rose bashers, but I felt like it this time...

Red222
11-07-2010, 04:28 AM
I don't really know what you're saying Red, but I usually don't respond to Rose bashers, but I felt like it this time...

i was just saying you and others should know where this thread was headed thats all.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 04:41 AM
i was just saying you and others should know where this thread was headed thats all.

Yeah, i guess it's inevitable, there was actually some good talk about rose and the bulls in this thread, and then I just wanted to take the intiative to expose that one guy's ignorant beliefs.

drobe86
11-07-2010, 04:43 AM
Rose is overrated lol... The matchup with Westbrook exposed him as I said it would. Rose did all the talking, and Westbrook did all the playing.

JiffyMix88
11-07-2010, 04:44 AM
I think I might just avoid this one.

yeah u might because u just like to talk we know this already.

Rose > Westbrook and even you know it

JiffyMix88
11-07-2010, 04:45 AM
Rose is overrated lol... The matchup with Westbrook exposed him as I said it would. Rose did all the talking, and Westbrook did all the playing.

wtf r u talking about everytime they play rose kills him in the first and they r forced to put thabo on him

John Walls Era
11-07-2010, 04:47 AM
From last year, all you ****in haters better see this:

Derrick Rose is the Best PG Midrange Shooter This Year

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Statistics taken from Hoopdata. Taken from Players ranked as PGs, playing in >40 games this year.

Yep. He really is the best midranger shooter at PG in the league.


Quote:
From 10 feet and in (basically, floater range): Derrick Rose shoots the most attempts of any PG, makes the most, and has the best FG%. Outside of Mike Bibby, but that guy's taken 20 of those shots the entire year. He's the best at his position at this. 1st in this area.

From 10-15 feet: Tied with Chris Paul for most makes per game in this area, with Chris Paul shooting a slightly superior 51.5% to Rose's 49.7%. Steve Nash shoots a 55% from this area. So Rose is probably 3rd best in this area.

From 16-23 feet: Derrick Rose leads all PGs in attempts and makes per game (by far), tied for 5th in FG% at 44.0%. Takes 7 a game, makes 3, the only person with similar volume is Paul with 5 attempts at 45.0% FG%. Nash outpaces all other PGs shooting this shot at 46% accuracy. #5 in this area- all the players he's tied with are not nearly as high volume as he is.
http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.as...&gp=40&mins=25

He's not just become a "solid" midrange shooter. Or a "good" midrange shooter. He's inarguably top 3 at the position, and arguably the best considering shot volume. He's an ELITE midrange shooter, at only his 2nd year in the league.

This was a very solid point. I thought Rose was a decently good Midrange shooter, but I guess hes better than that.

But a question: I've seen Rose hit runners where he jumps just within the FT line (under 19 feet). Those shots would count in these stats, am I correct? So that does skew the stats a tiny bit. Those floaters don't count as jumpshots imo.

drobe86
11-07-2010, 04:51 AM
wtf r u talking about everytime they play rose kills him in the first and they r forced to put thabo on him

Rose didn't kill westbrook this time, if I memory serves me correct Westbrook actually led his team to a win....... An d rose gave us awesome empty stats lol....

JiffyMix88
11-07-2010, 05:04 AM
Rose didn't kill westbrook this time, if I memory serves me correct Westbrook actually led his team to a win....... An d rose gave us awesome empty stats lol....

Rose had 20 first half points and had to sit out most of the first half because of foul trouble, and yes he did thats y they were and always r force to put thabo on rose, also the refs were being a bit home biased if you ask me because the 47 fta for the Thunder compared to 22 fta by Chicago is a bit obscured.

drobe86
11-07-2010, 05:10 AM
Rose had 20 first half points and had to sit out most of the first half because of foul trouble, and yes he did thats y they were and always r force to put thabo on rose, also the refs were being a bit home biased if you ask me because the 47 fta for the Thunder compared to 22 fta by Chicago is a bit obscured.

Sure blame the refs.... Im sure 99 percent of the teams that lose didn't get to the line as much as the teams that won. You're not really saying anything by making that statement. Sure he had 20 first half points and etc. in a LOSS. Rose can actually play don't get me wrong but he's not a leader. Elite players teams don't finish right at .500 or below like Chicago did the year before. I'm not saying he has to win a championnship but at least get your team to 50 wins and have some type of success. Rose is a good player but Chicago fans go overboard. He hadn't done anything, so whats all the fuss about?

JiffyMix88
11-07-2010, 05:29 AM
Sure blame the refs.... Im sure 99 percent of the teams that lose didn't get to the line as much as the teams that won. You're not really saying anything by making that statement. Sure he had 20 first half points and etc. in a LOSS. Rose can actually play don't get me wrong but he's not a leader. Elite players teams don't finish right at .500 or below like Chicago did the year before. I'm not saying he has to win a championnship but at least get your team to 50 wins and have some type of success. Rose is a good player but Chicago fans go overboard. He hadn't done anything, so whats all the fuss about?

You probably right but just in general I dislike watching games where the calls or so one sided not even saying that because we lost the game. Last years game 7 finals was probably the best 3 quarters of basketball I have seen since the Pistons Lakers series in 04 until it became a free throw drill for the lakers in the 4th quarter(pretty sure you also didn't like seeing your mavs lose to the heat at the line like they did). To judge him of the team that is around him is unfair. If we still r losing like we are now in the fashion we are right now then the criticism is justified, but I think ppl on this forum will/r ready to jump on a player to early in the season. And actually the Chicago/Rose fans haven't been posting on the nba forum as much as they use too its more of these fans who just beat us(knicks, celtics fans) who r starting these new threads.

really?... thats like saying dirk hasn't done anything

YoungOne
11-07-2010, 05:38 AM
I see him as a combo guard and he should play alongside another combo guard, preferably one who can defend well and shoot 3's, too bad they traded Hinrich away.

thats a good point

Reversed86Curse
11-07-2010, 09:28 AM
Let's compare the 2-3-4 for the Bulls and Celtics

Rondo gets to pass to : Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett

Rose gets to pass to : Keith Bogans, Luol Deng and Taj Gibson

Do I need to spell it out for you next?

My original point is that while Bulls fans say there is nobody for Rose to pass to, that is not correct. Heinrich is a better scoring option than Bogans, and Rose averaged what, 6 assists last year? Why is he averaging point guard type assists this year then? My guess is because THE REST of the Bulls are better scorers (as a whole) than last years squad. He hasn't gotten better as a pg, but the team has improved. But since you brought up the Rose/Rondo comparison, don't blame Rondo for the fact he can hit his teammates anywhere on the floor and they can convert them into points. The only time the real Big 3 aren't washed up in the eyes of non-Celtic fans is when the Rondo debate comes up, other wise they're nothing. Take your pick

Reversed86Curse
11-07-2010, 09:34 AM
If we were 41 games into the season and he was shooting 25%, you would be 100% correct. The fact of the matter is, it's only been 5 games. Last night he shot 0-2 from 3. LOLOLOMG 0%. Yeah. Both of those were end of quarter heaves/bombs that would not be taken in the normal flow of the offense. So take those out and you have him shooting 5/18, roughly 28%. Now, take the OKC game where he shot 0-4, if I remember correctly. That's what we call an outlier. If we add just 1 make, for a below-average 25% for the game (1/4), his overall makes/attempts goes up to 6/18, which suddenly becomes a respectable 33%.

But whatever, hate on. You're only lying to yourself.

Not hating in the least- he's a career 24.3% 3pt shooter, that's a fact. Who gives a **** about 5 games, I'm talking about the other 159 he's played in.

Reversed86Curse
11-07-2010, 09:47 AM
i love how everyone acts like if you score more than 15 a game you arent a point guard. Just because he doesnt have 25 assists a game doesnt mean ****. because if rose was a part of the celtics he would be much better than rondo. a legit shooting threat who also has the fastest first step in the NBA. he would be drawing 3 defenders and kicking out to pierce and allen all day. and dont even act like he wouldnt.

First- if Rose was on the C's, they wouldn't be better, period. The biggest reason why the C's are the type of team they are is because nobody commands the ball, which is how Rose is successful as a player. Rose doesn't have the court vision of Rondo, and is a me-first player. Wouldn't work, sorry

Second- nobody says a point guard can't score more than 15 a game. How many people are saying Paul's not a true PG? None. That's because Paul is an above average passer, with above average defense, with limited players (like all Bulls fans say they're stuck with) and above average court vision. All of those things are what Rose isn't, he's either average or below average.

Not hating in the least, I think Rose is a good player, with potential to be one of the best scorers in the game some day.

Reversed86Curse
11-07-2010, 09:56 AM
I didn't know that his .489 FG% last year made you laugh

What was his shot selection? Probably a bunch of layups or fast break dunks. He's still not a great shooter, regardless of what you want to believe

JWO35
11-07-2010, 10:02 AM
"Westbrook has Durant on his team, so he can't be better than Rose"

"Rondo has KG, Allen, and Paul on his team, so he can't be better than Rose"

-Typical Bull****(fan) logic

Reversed86Curse
11-07-2010, 10:06 AM
I don't see it as hate if you point out rose's weakness. I never said rose was perfect. I don't know a player that is perfect because everyone can improve in something. For example, Rondo is in his fifth year and he still hasn't developed a jumpshot! However, he doesnt need one because in his team all he has to worry about is create and pass it to three H. Fame players. So one of his weakness isnt really exposed as much. If you put rose in that team, you think he is going to worry about scoring?

Having watched all of the C's games this year, I'd beg to differ- he's been knocking down his jumpers a lot more consistently than last year. And he can still get to the hoop at will. People are going to think Rose is only worried about scoring till he proves different. Nobody's knocking him as a player.

hugepatsfan
11-07-2010, 10:08 AM
First- if Rose was on the C's, they wouldn't be better, period. The biggest reason why the C's are the type of team they are is because nobody commands the ball, which is how Rose is successful as a player. Rose doesn't have the court vision of Rondo, and is a me-first player. Wouldn't work, sorry

Second- nobody says a point guard can't score more than 15 a game. How many people are saying Paul's not a true PG? None. That's because Paul is an above average passer, with above average defense, with limited players (like all Bulls fans say they're stuck with) and above average court vision. All of those things are what Rose isn't, he's either average or below average.

Not hating in the least, I think Rose is a good player, with potential to be one of the best scorers in the game some day.

Of course he is a "me first" player. The dude can get the rim at will. Why wouldn't he look for his own shot. Everyone thinks that a PG needs to be pass-first to be good. A PG that is a QB like Rondo, CP3, Deron, or Nash is good, but not necessary. Who was the guy on LA the last 2 years that dished out assists to everybody? SA won titles w/ Tony Parker - he's not a pass first player. When the Celtics won their title, Rondo was good, but he wasn't all that yet.

D Rose is a good PG. But he is a better scorer. There's nothing wrong w/ being shoot first, as long as you're not a ball hog. Rose isn't. He's a different player than any other top PG in the league. He's the best scoring PG in the league IMO. For him to look to pass first would be dumb - that's not playing to his strengths as a player.

hugepatsfan
11-07-2010, 10:13 AM
How about this, we just start evaluating Rondo AFTER the Big 3 are washed up and moved on and the Celtics have Bulls level of talent surrounding Rondo. Right now its just not fair to Rose.

Rose will never be the passer/distributor that Rondo is. That's not a knock on him. Rose is the best scoring PG in the league. He will always look to create for himself before others because that's his game. He needs to play to his strengths. Rondo is the better offensive ignitor and that will never change. Rose is a good passer, but not as good as Rondo. They have different strenghts - that will never change. But that doesn't mean that Rondo>Rose, it just means that he is better in certain areas.

Reversed86Curse
11-07-2010, 10:28 AM
Of course he is a "me first" player. The dude can get the rim at will. Why wouldn't he look for his own shot. Everyone thinks that a PG needs to be pass-first to be good. A PG that is a QB like Rondo, CP3, Deron, or Nash is good, but not necessary. Who was the guy on LA the last 2 years that dished out assists to everybody? SA won titles w/ Tony Parker - he's not a pass first player. When the Celtics won their title, Rondo was good, but he wasn't all that yet.

D Rose is a good PG. But he is a better scorer. There's nothing wrong w/ being shoot first, as long as you're not a ball hog. Rose isn't. He's a different player than any other top PG in the league. He's the best scoring PG in the league IMO. For him to look to pass first would be dumb - that's not playing to his strengths as a player.

Wasn't knocking him, and not saying he has to be pass first- my point is for it to work on the C's, the PG needs to be a QB, which Rose isn't

Bullsfan22
11-07-2010, 10:55 AM
Of course he is a "me first" player. The dude can get the rim at will. Why wouldn't he look for his own shot. Everyone thinks that a PG needs to be pass-first to be good. A PG that is a QB like Rondo, CP3, Deron, or Nash is good, but not necessary. Who was the guy on LA the last 2 years that dished out assists to everybody? SA won titles w/ Tony Parker - he's not a pass first player. When the Celtics won their title, Rondo was good, but he wasn't all that yet.

D Rose is a good PG. But he is a better scorer. There's nothing wrong w/ being shoot first, as long as you're not a ball hog. Rose isn't. He's a different player than any other top PG in the league. He's the best scoring PG in the league IMO. For him to look to pass first would be dumb - that's not playing to his strengths as a player.

Great post.

D1JM
11-07-2010, 11:17 AM
What was his shot selection? Probably a bunch of layups or fast break dunks. He's still not a great shooter, regardless of what you want to believe

He's not rondo. He can actually shoot from beyond four feet pf the basket

adidas2307
11-07-2010, 11:35 AM
Deron Williams had 30 points last night, but only 7 assists! What?! He must not be a real PG then, according to many posters in here. Every point guard should look to pass first every possession since every point guard doesn't know how to score, right?
Sorry, Celtics fans, just because Rondo can't hit a jumpshot or make his freethrows doesn't mean you have to knock Rose on his strengths.

effen5
11-07-2010, 01:01 PM
Of course he is a "me first" player. The dude can get the rim at will. Why wouldn't he look for his own shot. Everyone thinks that a PG needs to be pass-first to be good. A PG that is a QB like Rondo, CP3, Deron, or Nash is good, but not necessary. Who was the guy on LA the last 2 years that dished out assists to everybody? SA won titles w/ Tony Parker - he's not a pass first player. When the Celtics won their title, Rondo was good, but he wasn't all that yet.

D Rose is a good PG. But he is a better scorer. There's nothing wrong w/ being shoot first, as long as you're not a ball hog. Rose isn't. He's a different player than any other top PG in the league. He's the best scoring PG in the league IMO. For him to look to pass first would be dumb - that's not playing to his strengths as a player.

:clap:

close thread

SteveNash
11-07-2010, 01:08 PM
If Rose can get to the rim at will, why is he such an inefficient offensive player?

Is 105 shots to score 125 points impressive?

Lu's Dynasty
11-07-2010, 01:26 PM
Decent observations about Rose other than the fact that the OP doesn't think Rose is a natural PG. Everyone wanted Rose to take more shots his first two years in the league because our offense was non-existent with our "special" coach Vinny. In year two we had Hinrich at the 2 quite a bit and basically Deng for scoring options other than Rose. Right now there is Deng and Rose for scoring. What can you expect offensively from a team with those two as your main options? Rose has to do everything offensively right now, period.

But, if we are going off of one game to make a judgment then I guess we can expect the Knicks to shoot 75% from downtown and the Bulls (under Thibs) not to play any kind of defense the rest of the year. Moving Rose to SG for the rest of his career would be a mistake especially considering the Bulls roster.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 01:52 PM
This was a very solid point. I thought Rose was a decently good Midrange shooter, but I guess hes better than that.

But a question: I've seen Rose hit runners where he jumps just within the FT line (under 19 feet). Those shots would count in these stats, am I correct? So that does skew the stats a tiny bit. Those floaters don't count as jumpshots imo.

Those are the in the 10 foot and in range, which rose was the best in... But all the rest he was near the top in, thus his evolution to an ELITE mid-range jump shooter.

Lu's Dynasty
11-07-2010, 01:55 PM
Rose didn't kill westbrook this time, if I memory serves me correct Westbrook actually led his team to a win....... An d rose gave us awesome empty stats lol....

Um, actually Rose had to sit a chunk of the game at the early point in the 3rd quarter against the Thunder due to picking up his fourth foul. He had 24 points at that point in about 22 minutes of play or so I believe. Westbrook picked up a lot of his numbers when Rose went out. From that point on it was a march to the FT line for the whole Thunder team due to poor defense by the Bulls and star-calls for Durant. Even so, Rose had the Bulls within 2 with less than 4 to go in the game.

Rose was on his way to having a really nice game (maybe 35+ points and a double-double). The Bulls lost all momentum offensively when Rose went out in the 3rd. Rose couldn't buy a bucket or a whistle when he re-entered the game. Once Rose went to the bench the Bulls offense was crap in the second half and was propelled by put backs and slop by Noah and our forwards. The team was turning it over and then Rose came back in and even he made some mistakes. It was a weird game, but ultimately the Bulls didn't get any calls and fell apart because the Bulls aren't mentally tough enough at this point to play through that on the road.

Rose is that whole team. The only knock on him right now is his defense. He will be the best player on a 45+ win team averaging around 23-24 and 10-11 with better efficiency than he has shown through the first few games of the season, which has him playing with many new teammates, a new coach, and without the second best player on the team (Boozer, 20/10 who is great at the pick n' roll).

Baller1
11-07-2010, 01:58 PM
wtf r u talking about everytime they play rose kills him in the first and they r forced to put thabo on him

Yeah, his 28 points on 32 shots was absolutely dominating.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 01:59 PM
^ And just to add to that, the OKC game was probably Rose's worst this year so far.

Baller1
11-07-2010, 01:59 PM
If Rose can get to the rim at will, why is he such an inefficient offensive player?

Is 105 shots to score 125 points impressive?

First time for everything, I actually agree with you for once.

Baller1
11-07-2010, 02:01 PM
^ And just to add to that, the OKC game was probably Rose's worst this year so far.

Against Westbrook... coincidence? I don't think so.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 02:10 PM
Against Westbrook... coincidence? I don't think so.

Whatever you say man, you're a homer that pretends he isn't one, but Rose is better than Westbrook period.

Bullsfan22
11-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Whatever you say man, you're a homer that pretends he isn't one, but Rose is better than Westbrook period.

he's the biggest homer on psd it's sickening. I haven't put him on my ignore list because I think it's funny how he tries to come off as an intelligent poster.

Bullsfan22
11-07-2010, 02:16 PM
just like kenny smith said westbrook is a robin and will always be one.

Emphatiic
11-07-2010, 02:26 PM
I watched the Knicks - Bulls game the other night and I took a good look at DR to gather my own facts and perception of him as a player. I don't see him that much being a Knick fan but what I noticed ......I personally think him playing PG is taking away from his overall game. IMO he is not a top 10 PG. He may be a top 10 player but not a top 10 PG. There is a difference. DR is a combo guard, he is not the best ball handler and he is not good on defense at all. Felton was blowing by him all night and Felton is husky and slow. He has a deceit jump shot but he is a streaky player. As a PG he rarely got a pass for a spot up shot most of his jump shots was off the dribble. He is to good of a scorer to stay at PG. His passing abilities are average at best but if you're a scorer his assist should be down but as a PG he is expected to get high assist ....he should be receiving instead of dishing the basketball. So basically I think he should be a starting SG.

this is why is not considered to be a legitimate MVP candidate. Thoughts????.........BTW that dunk was unbelievable .....as a two guard he could get a lot more of those but he's busy passing the ball to guys like James Johnson and Deng.

he does have ball handling stupid ****
way better then felton's little chubby self

Sir Buckets
11-07-2010, 02:31 PM
Westbrook has the luxury of playing with Kevin Durant (that really good guy). Teams build their game plan around Durant. When teams play the Bulls, they plan around Rose, period.

Playing with a borderline superstar undoubtedly makes your life that much easier.

Instead of using one game to determine who's better out of Rose/Brook, let's look at their season stats so far:

Rose

25 pts / 9.8 assists / 4.2 reb

Westbrook

22.2 pts / 6.6 assists / 7 reb

Rose's FG% = .457
Westbrook's = .418

And Rose is playing without Boozer. Westbrook -- again, I stress this -- is playing with a borderline superstar.

Child, please.

Baller1
11-07-2010, 02:33 PM
Whatever you say man, you're a homer that pretends he isn't one, but Rose is better than Westbrook period.

Isn't that a "homer" statement?

Stop being hypocritical.

Baller1
11-07-2010, 02:34 PM
just like kenny smith said westbrook is a robin and will always be one.

You're right, let's discredit Westbrook for being drafted to a team with Kevin Durant on it.

Bullsfan22
11-07-2010, 02:37 PM
Westbrook has the luxury of playing with Kevin Durant (that really good guy). Teams build their game plan around Durant. When teams play the Bulls, they plan around Rose, period.

Playing with a borderline superstar undoubtedly makes your life that much easier.

Instead of using one game to determine who's better out of Rose/Brook, let's look at their season stats so far:

Rose

25 pts / 9.8 assists / 4.2 reb

Westbrook

22.2 pts / 6.6 assists / 7 reb

Rose's FG% = .457
Westbrook's = .418

And Rose is playing without Boozer. Westbrook -- again, I stress this -- is playing with a borderline superstar.

Child, please.

he's an aboverage defender and a good rebounder because they do have a true big man. Having a 41 percent field goal percentage is HORRIBLE no matter what way you put it. both his efg% and TS% is average at best when playing along side of a scoring champion.

Sir Buckets
11-07-2010, 02:40 PM
Isn't that a "homer" statement?

Stop being hypocritical.No, it's a fact.

Baller1
11-07-2010, 02:46 PM
No, it's a fact.

And I'm the child?

This is why I get so sick of this debate. You guys think scoring is everything, and you're taking a ~5 game sample size to formulate "facts".

Bullsfan22
11-07-2010, 02:50 PM
You're right, let's discredit Westbrook for being drafted to a team with Kevin Durant on it.

You overrate him and you're a homer. he's just not as good of a player as you make him out to be on this nba forum sorry.

He's got off to a great start this year arguably better than Rose this year but he's clearly better than rose like you think he is.

Sir Buckets
11-07-2010, 02:51 PM
And I'm the child?

This is why I get so sick of this debate. You guys think scoring is everything, and you're taking a ~5 game sample size to formulate "facts".Scoring isn't everything. Neither are the stats.

I don't even care what you and your "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME" Westbook > Rose sig think. I think that somewhere, deep down, you know you're wrong. At least I hope so.

nitric
11-07-2010, 02:52 PM
Lets argue with a guy who has "Westbrook > Rose" bolded and upsized as his sig :laugh:

sargon21
11-07-2010, 02:52 PM
And I'm the child?

This is why I get so sick of this debate. You guys think scoring is everything, and you're taking a ~5 game sample size to formulate "facts".

For 2 years, playoffs, and 5 games this year, Rose has been the superior player, simple as that. Not to mention Rose actually LED his team.

Baller1
11-07-2010, 02:53 PM
Scoring isn't everything. Neither are the stats.

I don't even care what you and your "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME" Westbook > Rose sig think. I think that somewhere, deep down, you know you're wrong. At least I hope so.

Wrong again. Why would I make such a claim so obvious if I didn't believe it? Where's your logic?

Baller1
11-07-2010, 02:54 PM
For 2 years, playoffs, and 5 games this year, Rose has been the superior player, simple as that. Not to mention Rose actually LED his team.

Playoffs? :laugh2:

Someone didn't watch the Lakers series last season.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 02:54 PM
Wrong again. Why would I make such a claim so obvious if I didn't believe it? Where's your logic?

Because you're insecure.

sargon21
11-07-2010, 02:56 PM
Playoffs? :laugh2:

Someone didn't watch the Lakers series last season.

They were about equal in last year's playoffs, and rose was in the playoffs his rookie year and played really well as a rookie, again with the team that he LED there. I'm done with you, you're blinded by homerism.

EDIT: and I also liked how you just disregarded the 2 years of their NBA career, nice job in formulating your analysis of a player

Baller1
11-07-2010, 03:01 PM
They were about equal in last year's playoffs, and rose was in the playoffs his rookie year and played really well as a rookie, again with the team that he LED there. I'm done with you, you're blinded by homerism.

EDIT: and I also liked how you just disregarded the 2 years of their NBA career, nice job in formulating your analysis of a player

:laugh2:

Let me go get my 2-year analysis I did a few months ago.

Sir Buckets
11-07-2010, 03:02 PM
because you're insecure.And boom! goes the dynamite.

Baller1
11-07-2010, 03:04 PM
Russell Westbrook Vs. Derrick Rose



What?

They are both better players BUT they are also MUCH older than Rose. I don't understand why you have so much hate for Derrick Rose. You’re one of the most annoying posters going around. Would you trade Westbrook for Billups or Nash? Btw Rose >Westbrook

Rose Rookie of the year - Westbrook wasn't even runner up

Rose made the All-star team - Westbrook hasn’t

Rose starts ahead of Westbrook for team USA - Westbrook is the backup

U mad?

Oh, I'm so sorry... Does my knowledge of the game annoy you?

Here you go, I've already done all the work on this subject before. You're welcome for saving you the time.


Stats? Alright, works for me. This is actually extremely easy considering the works been done for me.

Here you go, you're welcome. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2010&p2=rosede01&y2=2010)

As you can see, Rose is only better at scoring the ball more and turning it over less. Other than that, Westbrook has higher percentages in offensive rebounding (not close), defensive rebounding, passing (AST%), stealing, and blocking. On top of that, Westbrook's defense is far better than Rose as Wesbtrook provides more defensive win shares, and more win shares overall for that matter, although it is very close.

Furthermore, Westbrook absolutely destroys Rose in every possible way in the playoffs. Granted neither have much of a resume to work with, but of what there is, it's fair to say that it's "not fair" to compare the two in the postseason.

Alright, and now a section for the kiddies who can't comprehend all that.

Maybe this will make it easier. (http://www.rototimes.com/nba/player_comparison.php)

In simpler terms, Westbrook is superior in rebounding, free throw shooting, passing, stealing, blocking, and is a better defender in general.

Now for some fun facts:

Westbrook has a 59.7 WIN% compared to Rose's 46.8
Rose is assisted on more of his baskets than Westbrook, meaning Westbrook creates for himself more often
Westbrook is much more efficient at creating fouls for himself at a clip of 14.1% to Rose's 8.8%
Passing Rating: Westbrook - 15.8/Rose - 9.1
Rebounding Rating: Westbrook 14.5/Rose - 10.9
Westbrook also has a higher block rating: 1.7 compared to a meer 0.8 for Rose
When comparing the two by production per 48 at POINT GUARD, Westbrook once again basically blows him out


Russell Westbrook (http://www.82games.com/0910/09OKC5.HTM)
Derrick Rose (http://www.82games.com/0809/08CHI1.HTM)

What I'm trying to say is, Rose is the better Shooting Guard while Westbrook is the better Point Guard. Considering they both play point guard...


Russell Westbrook > Derrick Rose

nitric
11-07-2010, 03:05 PM
you are only convincing yourself

nitric
11-07-2010, 03:07 PM
They were about equal in last year's playoffs, and rose was in the playoffs his rookie year and played really well as a rookie, again with the team that he LED there. I'm done with you, you're blinded by homerism.

EDIT: and I also liked how you just disregarded the 2 years of their NBA career, nice job in formulating your analysis of a player

nice sig :laugh2:

sargon21
11-07-2010, 03:07 PM
new sig...

Baller1
11-07-2010, 03:14 PM
Ignoring the facts, shouldn't have expected anything different.

Sir Buckets
11-07-2010, 03:17 PM
Ignoring the facts, shouldn't have expected anything different.You just don't get it. :(

quade36
11-07-2010, 03:21 PM
this thread is ridiculous.... Rose is ONLY 22. Jeez.... You guys make it seem like he has hit his peek.

adidas2307
11-07-2010, 03:22 PM
Russell Westbrook Vs. Derrick Rose

Congrats, you just proved what we already knew. :clap:

Westbrook has the better team, so by the same token it would be pretty obvious for him to have a higher WIN%.

So now it's a bad thing to be passed to when you take your shot? Creating your own shot doesn't always make you the better player.

Yeah, Westbrook gets more foul calls than Rose. So do 50 other NBA players.

OKC has better scorers and can make their shots when they get passed to. Damn you Derrick for not making your teammates shots when you pass to them! :mad:

Rebounding is an area of weakness of Rose's, but unlike OKC, the Bulls have good rebounders at their 3, 4, and 5 positions. I want to see Westbrook outrebound Rose with Noah, Taj, and Deng on his team.

And yes, Rose's defense isn't great. Yet again, proving what we already knew.

I can't believe I just responded to this.

nitric
11-07-2010, 03:24 PM
Ignoring the facts, shouldn't have expected anything different.

All you did was cherry picked advanced stats. :confused:

Sir Buckets
11-07-2010, 03:25 PM
Congrats, you just proved what we already knew. :clap:

Westbrook has the better team, so by the same token it would be pretty obvious for him to have a higher WIN%.

So now it's a bad thing to be passed to when you take your shot? Creating your own shot doesn't always make you the better player.

Yeah, Westbrook gets more foul calls than Rose. So do 50 other NBA players.

OKC has better scorers and can make their shots when they get passed to. Damn you Derrick for not making your teammates shots when you pass to them! :mad:

Rebounding is an area of weakness of Rose's, but unlike OKC, the Bulls have good rebounders at their 3, 4, and 5 positions. I want to see Westbrook outrebound Rose with Noah, Taj, and Deng on his team.

And yes, Rose's defense isn't great. Yet again, proving what we already knew.

I can't believe I just responded to this.I think I just lost a significant amount of brain cells reading your dnewguy quotes.

Dear lord.

adidas2307
11-07-2010, 03:32 PM
I think I just lost a significant amount of brain cells reading your dnewguy quotes.

Dear lord.

Even better, there are more. However (or luckily, however you look at it lol), there's a limit to characters in a sig.

effen5
11-07-2010, 03:43 PM
Even better, there are more. However (or luckily, however you look at it lol), there's a limit to characters in a sig.

Yeah, that kid is ridiculous. Read mine. He was going to facepalm the op of the thread, then he found out he was the op. :facepalm:

adidas2307
11-07-2010, 03:50 PM
Yeah, that kid is ridiculous. Read mine. He was going to facepalm the op of the thread, then he found out he was the op. :facepalm:

:laugh:
That's awesome.

Bullsfan22
11-07-2010, 03:55 PM
He turns the ball over more than rose and assist percentages is slightly better with a better roster around him.

He draws more fouls because he has an elite scorer that happens to have unlimited range so you think he's going get the lanes packed up on him?

His usage rating is higher than rose's and he's a sidekick, that tells you he doesn't swing the ball and play within offense and after watching games on him he basically puts his head down and drive to the rim like a deer and turns the ball over while at it.

He plays the passing lanes,challenges shots, and get to the free throw line more and better/than rose.

Rose is the number one guy on his team and still shoots a significantly better percentage, racks up slightly less assist while scoring more and turning the ball over less.

Your best argument should probably be westbrook is a better pg than rose and even that is flawed.

It's obvious rose is the more polished and better player that shoulders the load for his team scores fairly efficiently (not the most) but wayyy better than westbrook while turning the ball over less with a lower usage rate (less ball stopping and violently driving the ball to the whole).

sargon21
11-07-2010, 04:22 PM
^ good post Bullsfan22, and don't worry "baller" I'll have some stuff written about stats later, I just can't find the document right now

SteveNash
11-07-2010, 05:44 PM
he's an aboverage defender and a good rebounder because they do have a true big man. Having a 41 percent field goal percentage is HORRIBLE no matter what way you put it. both his efg% and TS% is average at best when playing along side of a scoring champion.

Nice job trying to discredit Westbrook.

Westbrook makes hustle plays to win ball games, like the play that won the for OKC against Portland where he jumped in to get a rebound and even though he wasn't credited with anything, his hustle allowed the Thunder to retain the ball.

That's the kind of winning plays that Derrick Rose doesn't do. He's lazy and gets beaten by his man all the time putting teammates in bad spots.

On offense while his numbers may seem superior to Westbrook, in fact Rose just hogs the ball more. While delusional Bulls fans thinks this is a wise strategy it isn't, as it takes his teammates out of the game. Rose has little passing ability and mostly relies on driving where he can't draw fouls like Westbrook or kicking it out and when Rose gets lazy he'll settle for ineffective long 2 point jumpers.


They were about equal in last year's playoffs, and rose was in the playoffs his rookie year and played really well as a rookie, again with the team that he LED there. I'm done with you, you're blinded by homerism.

EDIT: and I also liked how you just disregarded the 2 years of their NBA career, nice job in formulating your analysis of a player

About equal :facepalm:

Why because Rose took 25 shots a game to score 27 points?

Baller1
11-07-2010, 06:06 PM
All you did was cherry picked advanced stats. :confused:

In other words I cherry-picked facts.

My god...

:laugh2:

Baller1
11-07-2010, 06:08 PM
^ good post Bullsfan22, and don't worry "baller" I'll have some stuff written about stats later, I just can't find the document right now

That's because a document in which Rose is superior statistically doesn't exist. Don't waste your time.

Ovratd1up
11-07-2010, 06:27 PM
That's because a document in which Rose is superior statistically doesn't exist. Don't waste your time.

So obviously you think the people whom you are arguing with are homers, and you may be right.

My question would then be, why waste your time?

ChiSox219
11-07-2010, 07:07 PM
See the two quotes from Knics fans in my sig

ChiSox219
11-07-2010, 07:13 PM
There was an article on ESPN insider this past week talking about the new breed of PG (Rose/Wall/Westbrook). They are breaking the mold, that doesn't mean they should be restricted to SG.

I do agree the Bulls could use a combo guard but that has nothing to do with Rose. The Bulls don't have a starting caliber SG nor a second ball handler. Joe Johnson would've been great for this team but not for the stupid money he received.

Bullsfan22
11-07-2010, 08:02 PM
ahaha nobody said anything to discredit the facts I put up hence no reply to trash posts.