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Nymfan87
10-27-2010, 01:27 PM
So let's say there was a mystery player who next season had a .247/.316/.456 triple slash and played neutral defense at SS over 650 PA's...what would his WAR be?

C1Bman88
10-27-2010, 02:05 PM
His inital WAR would be around +2.9, not including the offensive component. You'd have to give me a year and the overall batting line (i.e. AB, H, 2B, 3B, HR, etc.) to figure that out...I'm too lazy to back-calculate the slash line. :)

Nymfan87
10-27-2010, 03:38 PM
His inital WAR would be around +2.9, not including the offensive component. You'd have to give me a year and the overall batting line (i.e. AB, H, 2B, 3B, HR, etc.) to figure that out...I'm too lazy to back-calculate the slash line. :)

382 PA's, 85 hits, 18 bombs, 16 doubles, 1 triple, 34 walks, 9 steals, 1 CS (don't know if steals go into WAR)

The year is 2010.

C1Bman88
10-27-2010, 07:36 PM
Using standard run values, estimating AB and HBP and assuming no intentional walks, I've got the mystery player at around +1 runs above the average. 382 PA for Fangraphs equals +13 runs of replacement level and also about +4.5 runs for the positional adjustment. You're looking at about +19 runs above replacement; about a league average player overall.

Nymfan87
10-27-2010, 08:03 PM
Thanks. The mystery player is Bill Hall, in case you were wondering.

bagwell368
10-29-2010, 09:37 AM
Thanks. The mystery player is Bill Hall, in case you were wondering.

Bill Hall as a SS? At one time maybe. Despite the promising UZR numbers - he is too slow, too awkward. His footwork is poor around 2B, his arm is meh in the hole. If he spent a whole ST at SS only he might improve on some of that, but don't go looking for Ozzie. At LF, RF, 2B, SS he's replacement level. He is however a good 3B.

He's a replacement level player with some pop, but a meh OBP that is only a plus guy on D at 3B, and maybe in limited action CF. Used correctly he could even hit 1.7 WAR. Overused at the wrong positions -0.8.

Worth $1.5 - $2.75M for sure. He'll probably get bid over that, and be a mild disappointment.

GNick
11-01-2010, 08:53 AM
What about a 3b with a fielding percentage of .932%. 18 E in 95 games

367 PA's, 81 hits, 21 bombs, 16 doubles, 0 triple, 29 walks, 60 strikeouts?

ugafan
11-01-2010, 09:32 AM
What about a 3b with a fielding percentage of .932%. 18 E in 95 games

367 PA's, 81 hits, 21 bombs, 16 doubles, 0 triple, 29 walks, 60 strikeouts?

Fielding percentage is worthless.

metsfan4ever
11-01-2010, 09:50 AM
Fielding percentage is worthless.

Why are fielding percentage worthless?

Driven
11-01-2010, 02:58 PM
It's hard to determine anything from it. It's like batting average. It's a very basic tool that can't be used by itself.

A player can be a much superior defensive player than another player, but have a much worse Fielding Percentage. Not to mention that errors are determined by a random human being. Fielding Percentage also doesn't really incorporate someone's skills. It doesn't incorporate range or arm strength, or whatever. It just says, "this guy was able to make a routine play." That's a nice thing to be able to say, but it doesn't really mean much.

A guy who is able to get to more balls and be able to make stronger throws is going to get to more balls, and thus the chance for error increases. The chance to save runs also increases.

I know I explained this horribly, but I tried. :/

Driven
11-01-2010, 03:01 PM
What about a 3b with a fielding percentage of .932%. 18 E in 95 games

367 PA's, 81 hits, 21 bombs, 16 doubles, 0 triple, 29 walks, 60 strikeouts?
I would assume that his WAR would be well below 0. Although I guess it could be on the positive side if he had enough playing time, just based on attrition.

GNick
11-01-2010, 08:12 PM
I would assume that his WAR would be well below 0. Although I guess it could be on the positive side if he had enough playing time, just based on attrition.

WAR of 1.8. Edwin Edcarncion of the Blue Jays

Driven
11-01-2010, 11:39 PM
Hmm... guess I overlooked the HR aspect. Actually, I overlooked power in general. :/

I lose. I'm too lazy with this ****. :/

bagwell368
11-02-2010, 12:24 PM
Beltre 2010 v Lowell 2009.

Lowell had slightly higher Fld% (.966 > .959)
Lowell and Beltre had very similar DP credit
But Beltre crushed Lowell in range.
According to UZR/150 (includes range, fld%, DP, etc.) Lowell that year was 14.4 WORSE then the average 3B. Beltre was 12.7 BETTER then average in 2010. So you see Fld% means little when range is far different.

I saw both guys play well over half the games those years, and Lowell was a statue with reflexes (IE he could dive or leap, but he couldn't take 3-4-5-6-7 running steps to make a play). Beltre had a huge advantage in range, and most of his errors came early when he was still getting used to the hard INF. Beltre also has a canon - far better then Lowell in his days in Boston as well, although his mechanics are non standard for sure. Beltre also crushed two Boston LF'ers onto the DL as well, maybe he gets extra credit for that?

Career wise, Lowell maybe cracks the top 30 all time. Beltre is in the mid teens, and may get to about #12 if he has 5 years as good as 2006-2010. That's just about HOF range, and when you consider he only had a small handful of elite batting seasons, it shows what a major impact his glove has been. His health and early start helps as well. If only he had more plate discipline - then he might get to about #6-7 all time.

ATL#22
11-04-2010, 11:22 PM
.256/.338/.488/.826/ 2025 games/ WAR 70.5 .313/.411/.586/.997/2297 games/ 72.2 WAR ..... Defense and position value FTW... ****

ATL#22
11-04-2010, 11:25 PM
I would assume that his WAR would be well below 0. Although I guess it could be on the positive side if he had enough playing time, just based on attrition.

I'm confused by your response. The 367 PAs showed how much playing time he had and there is no way to assume his WAR based on how many errors he made.

Driven
11-05-2010, 10:07 PM
I'm confused by your response. The 367 PAs showed how much playing time he had and there is no way to assume his WAR based on how many errors he made.

My attrition response was based on me not knowing how many PA would be needed.

And there is no way to assume his WAR based on his errors, but I'm taking a guess. Based on the information given, I was making a guess. I completely overlooked his SLG percentage.

hoggin88
11-06-2010, 11:52 AM
So...how about people just look up what the player's WAR instead of listing all the stats separately and asking someone to figure it out for them? It's not like the original poster was asking a question about certain aspects of the calculation or anything.

Nymfan87
11-06-2010, 04:10 PM
So...how about people just look up what the player's WAR instead of listing all the stats separately and asking someone to figure it out for them? It's not like the original poster was asking a question about certain aspects of the calculation or anything.

Because Bill Hall didn't play SS last year.

bagwell368
11-06-2010, 10:37 PM
Because Bill Hall didn't play SS last year.

Hall had 3 starts and 3 partials. He was awful which is why Boston ground Scutaro into dust in 100 games.

bagwell368
11-06-2010, 10:39 PM
Bill Hall as a SS? At one time maybe. Despite the promising UZR numbers - he is too slow, too awkward. His footwork is poor around 2B, his arm is meh in the hole. If he spent a whole ST at SS only he might improve on some of that, but don't go looking for Ozzie. At LF, RF, 2B, SS he's replacement level. He is however a good 3B.

He's a replacement level player with some pop, but a meh OBP that is only a plus guy on D at 3B, and maybe in limited action CF. Used correctly he could even hit 1.7 WAR. Overused at the wrong positions -0.8.

Worth $1.5 - $2.75M for sure. He'll probably get bid over that, and be a mild disappointment.

I pegged the guy a week ago. Hall isn't going to play SS for anybody unless its in ST or AAA or a dire emergency.