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Frrrrank!!!
10-25-2010, 08:15 PM
Arky Vaughan.

Answer honestly.

Rdy2PlayBall
10-25-2010, 08:19 PM
His stats aren't exactly Hall-of-Fame worthy IMO. Must have been some kind of defensive genius.

Frrrrank!!!
10-25-2010, 08:27 PM
His stats aren't exactly Hall-of-Fame worthy IMO. Must have been some kind of defensive genius.

You have to remember 2 things, he played in the 1930's and he was a ss, so you can throw out hr totals and with that said he was 66th in WAR and Bill james whos very highly respected around baseball has him as the 2nd greatest ss ever behind wagner

Jeffy25
10-25-2010, 08:27 PM
He was a great defensive shortstop! The only reason I know who he is is because of all of the hall of fame research we did a couple of years ago on the Mogul forum, before that I didn't know who he was.

He is easily hall worthy, career war somewhere in the 70's

Rdy2PlayBall
10-25-2010, 08:39 PM
He didn't play that many years, he would have played 5 or so more seasons he career averages would probably be lower. If Frank Thomas quit when he was younger his averages would have been insane.

Well, good to know. I really should get to know some baseball history. Anything before the year 2000 and I'm lost. :o

Frrrrank!!!
10-25-2010, 08:48 PM
He didn't play that many years, he would have played 5 or so more seasons he career averages would probably be lower. If Frank Thomas quit when he was younger his averages would have been insane.

Well, good to know. I really should get to know some baseball history. Anything before the year 2000 and I'm lost. :o

Well his numbers were still EXTREMLY good, and don't hold me too this but careers were probably a lot shorter on average since if you got hurt in the 30's, you might be forced to retire and everything, now you have everything to help rehabilitate you, and not only that, From the sounds of it you only know players numbers from modern day, but players in old time baseball when this guy played, didn't hit a huge amount of hr's, with obviously some exceptions

Jeffy25
10-25-2010, 09:07 PM
his value came from his defense, his offensive value was pretty basic, especially for the time.
He might be the greatest defensive shortstop before Ozzie, aside from Baltimore's shortstop during the 60's (can't remember his name off the top of my head, I think Belanger)

hoggin88
10-25-2010, 10:34 PM
His stats aren't exactly Hall-of-Fame worthy IMO. Must have been some kind of defensive genius.


A line of .318/.406/.453 from a shortstop over a 14 year span isn't HOF worthy? His numbers were awesome [not every day do you find a SS with a .400 OBP] and supposedly was one of the best defensive SS's ever. That's some pretty good stuff right there.

Rdy2PlayBall
10-25-2010, 10:42 PM
A line of .318/.406/.453 from a shortstop over a 14 year span isn't HOF worthy? His numbers were awesome [not every day do you find a SS with a .400 OBP] and supposedly was one of the best defensive SS's ever. That's some pretty good stuff right there.Average isn't everything. You can have an OBP of .900 and manage to not be effective. I was looking at his power numbers. The HoF candidates seem to always consist of power number and defensive kinds of guys now-a-days. That's my reasoning.

quiksilver2491
10-25-2010, 10:52 PM
Average isn't everything. You can have an OBP of .900 and manage to not be effective. I was looking at his power numbers. The HoF candidates seem to always consist of power number and defensive kinds of guys now-a-days. That's my reasoning.

Is this what you call sarcasm? If you have a .900 OBP then your closer to God then Jesus Christ himself.

Rdy2PlayBall
10-25-2010, 11:04 PM
Is this what you call sarcasm? If you have a .900 OBP then your closer to God then Jesus Christ himself.Do you even know what sarcasm is? That is called an over exaggeration... :facepalm:

Jeffy25
10-25-2010, 11:05 PM
Average isn't everything. You can have an OBP of .900 and manage to not be effective. I was looking at his power numbers. The HoF candidates seem to always consist of power number and defensive kinds of guys now-a-days. That's my reasoning.

lmfao.

Power? what does power matter from a shortstop that played during the 30's? He didn't make outs, and played amazing defense! Easily a hall of famer.

It isn't even in the conversation, for sure fire hall of famer. Who gives a **** if he could hit for power in ballparks that had 500 foot fences.

Rdy2PlayBall
10-25-2010, 11:08 PM
lmfao.

Power? what does power matter from a shortstop that played during the 30's? He didn't make outs, and played amazing defense! Easily a hall of famer.

It isn't even in the conversation, for sure fire hall of famer. Who gives a **** if he could hit for power in ballparks that had 500 foot fences.Keep laughing your ****ing *** off, but I said OR defensive kind of guys. Which he is. I also said now-a-days. It's like you all have ADHD and don't read the entire posts.

Holy **** I admit I was wrong and explain afterwords what I first thought, and you people go nuts. Get over yourselves.

hoggin88
10-25-2010, 11:13 PM
Keep laughing your ****ing *** off, but I said OR defensive kind of guys. Which he is. I also said now-a-days. It's like you all have ADHD and don't read the entire posts.

Holy **** I admit I was wrong and explain afterwords what I first thought, and you people go nuts. Get over yourselves.

Well I for one didn't mean for my post to seem like I was going nuts, my bad if it did. Just contributing to the discussion.

Jeffy25
10-25-2010, 11:15 PM
Keep laughing your ****ing *** off, but I said OR defensive kind of guys. Which he is. I also said now-a-days. It's like you all have ADHD and don't read the entire posts.

Holy **** I admit I was wrong and explain afterwords what I first thought, and you people go nuts. Get over yourselves.

okay darling, no need to resort to cursing.

I am not trying to be rude, or 'go nuts' or anything even close. Just that Vaughan had a ton of value during his career.

Rdy2PlayBall
10-25-2010, 11:19 PM
Well I for one didn't mean for my post to seem like I was going nuts, my bad if it did. Just contributing to the discussion.The not-so-kind posts after yours are the ones I was targeting. Honestly, it's like people search for things to disagree about on here.

My view of a hall of fame player has always been a power-numbers hitter, great pitcher, or a great defensive player. I asked if he was good defensively, someone told me he was, I went on to say I don't know what I'm talking about, I need to get my history down.

Nah, let's start attacking a post for no reason. Great contribution to the thread.

------
btw Honey, "lmfao" is the same thing I said. The only potty word I used you didn't was "****," and it happened to be a holy ****.

hoggin88
10-25-2010, 11:25 PM
And as for the subject of the thread. The only reason I've heard about him is from bagwell's best all-time shortstop analysis he has gone through countless times. Otherwise, I would definitely never have heard of him.

Jeffy25
10-25-2010, 11:37 PM
The not-so-kind posts after yours are the ones I was targeting. Honestly, it's like people search for things to disagree about on here.

My view of a hall of fame player has always been a power-numbers hitter, great pitcher, or a great defensive player. I asked if he was good defensively, someone told me he was, I went on to say I don't know what I'm talking about, I need to get my history down.

Nah, let's start attacking a post for no reason. Great contribution to the thread.

------
btw Honey, "lmfao" is the same thing I said. The only potty word I used you didn't was "****," and it happened to be a holy ****.

You said


Average isn't everything. You can have an OBP of .900 and manage to not be effective. I was looking at his power numbers. The HoF candidates seem to always consist of power number and defensive kinds of guys now-a-days. That's my reasoning.

Which is where our response came from. If a player could have a .900 OBP, which is laughable, he would never be ineffective. I am not attacking you, I am attacking the point that you made. I like you personally, I may not agree with you, but I like you.

Jeffy25
10-25-2010, 11:40 PM
And as for the subject of the thread. The only reason I've heard about him is from bagwell's best all-time shortstop analysis he has gone through countless times. Otherwise, I would definitely never have heard of him.

Mogul Forum conversations about hall of famers, and playing historical dynasties on ootp and mogul. Vaughan is for sure to get on base and play solid 'd' on any dynasty.

Rdy2PlayBall
10-25-2010, 11:47 PM
You said



Which is where our response came from. If a player could have a .900 OBP, which is laughable, he would never be ineffective. I am not attacking you, I am attacking the point that you made. I like you personally, I may not agree with you, but I like you.I was explaining what I originally thought. Why would I say what I said before if I decided to change my mind again? A player CAN have a .900 OBP and be ineffective. If a player had a .900 OBP and was thrown out 100 times trying to steal, only scored 20 runs in the season, and only got 20 RBIs... that would be ineffective. It was an obvious over exaggeration, especially if you consider a player had never achieved something close to that. When I look at a player, the first thing I look at isn't OBP, that was my point.

You have to read the context around the post to fully understand what is going on.

"Well, good to know. I really should get to know some baseball history. Anything before the year 2000 and I'm lost. :o"

If that doesn't reek of agreeing with someone who knows more about the subject then I give up.

Eye_B_Hung
10-26-2010, 12:57 AM
Vakeaton Quamar Wafer