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View Full Version : Manny Ramirez Likes Farrell, Blue Jays



Hunter48MVP
10-25-2010, 04:48 PM
Manny Ramirez would like to play for the Blue Jays under new manager John Farrell, the slugger told ESPN's Enrique Rojas

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/news/story?id=1159855

Story is in Spanish.

The_Jet11
10-25-2010, 04:49 PM
hah that'd be cool!

FlakeyFool
10-25-2010, 04:54 PM
strange

2009mvp
10-25-2010, 04:56 PM
If (big if) Lind is your first baseman, I'd love to see them bring Manny in to DH on a short term deal. He wouldn't be blocking anyone, he could play left in a pinch, and he would make a legitimate splash in the city with his name alone. Depends on the money of course (of which his pricetag will probably be much higher than most GMs value him at), but I'd look into it, declining power numbers and all.

Gibby
10-25-2010, 05:01 PM
he is a great hitter and would be great as the DH. but it all depends on the money, if its at a good price then for sure. manny doesnt seem like a guy that wants to take a paycut and plus scott boras is his agent.

ramz.n
10-25-2010, 05:04 PM
hes just looking to slug against the red sox's !..I see him taking the big payday and ending up on the yankees.

jon32
10-25-2010, 05:04 PM
Get him. Hell put ppl in the stands which means more profit and if hes traded a year or two later we could get a little somthin for him.

The_Jet11
10-25-2010, 05:09 PM
how much would manny love to get back into the AL East, and rip the ball around Fenway and Yankee stadium again!?!

he's always hit VERY well at Rogers Centre too

othunder
10-25-2010, 05:26 PM
the only way the Jays sign him if he signs a minor league deal (a technicality, to avoid compensation) , because he is a type A free agent, costing the Jays their first round pick don't see AA doing that. but besides that he would be fun to watch! he has great numbers a Rogers Centre

2009mvp
10-25-2010, 05:33 PM
^^White Sox would have to offer him arbitration for that to matter.

bartron_44
10-25-2010, 05:36 PM
I think he would do well, but I don't want him in our clubhouse I don't think....

Kelly Gruber
10-25-2010, 05:45 PM
I'd be for it. Young players know he's crazy and you shouldn't act like Manny does, but he has a lot of hitting talent and could help some guys. Also Farrell is a no BS kind of guy and knows Manny. If there was a chance to add him, I'd give him the last call. If Farrell is for it, I'd do it. But from the outside looking in, it makes a lot of sense.

Gibby
10-25-2010, 05:47 PM
hes just looking to slug against the red sox's !..I see him taking the big payday and ending up on the yankees.

i dont think the yankees want him. If the yankees and red sox arent involved the price should be cheaper. but you dont know since scott boras is his agent


^^White Sox would have to offer him arbitration for that to matter.

Good point. I dont think white sox are going to risk the money he will get if they went to arbitration. so we wont have to worry about the 1st round pick.

frostilicus
10-25-2010, 05:52 PM
The Blue Jays were Manny's favourite team when he was growing up. :)

BBB
10-25-2010, 05:55 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5727014


ORLANDO -- With Red Sox pitching coach John Farrell about to take over as manager of the Blue Jays, soon-to-be free agent Manny Ramirez praised the hiring and listed Toronto as a possible landing spot.

"John has tremendous knowledge of the game, a very pleasant man and he trains ball players," Ramirez said in a telephone interview with ESPNdeportes.com from his Miami home.

lastname
Ramirez

"Toronto has made a great acquisition. Farrell is a manager for whom I would like to play, and Toronto is a team I've liked since they had all those Dominican players in the 80's," Ramirez continued.

Farrell, 48, has been the Red Sox pitching coach since 2007, when the team won their second championship in four years with Ramirez in the heart of the order.

TO Rapz
10-25-2010, 06:06 PM
If and this is the deciding factor in my mind..IF we dont have to give up our picks, so IF the Sox dont offer him arbirtration, then im cool with Man Ram down here. HOWEVER, if he is offered arbirtration, and we must lose our picks, then stay away, hes not worth it.

GNick
10-25-2010, 06:48 PM
Given Manny made 20 million can't see the Sox offering him arbitration. As it would have a factor in how much he gets....I see him signing for a fraction of that

Mile High Champ
10-25-2010, 06:54 PM
I would love to get Manny and would look awesome in the middle of our order. It would provide the fans with a big signing and something else to look forward to next year. I am all for this. Perhaps 2 years 12-14 mlion would get it done?

fmradioguy
10-25-2010, 07:03 PM
Manny isn't the player he once was and I'm sure he's just keeping all his doors open, BUT this is the first time in ages that a player of his note has expressed a desire to play in Toronto. No matter the motive, it's a good sign.

Johann
10-25-2010, 07:12 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2010/10/25/manny_jays/

nithanyo
10-25-2010, 07:13 PM
If a high profile free agent wants to come to toronto it makes us more attractive for other free agents.

Dol-Fan
10-25-2010, 07:17 PM
I'd be down, he knows how to hit. And not just home runs.

Snider
Escobar
Bautista
Ramirez
Lind
Wells
Hill
Buck/JPA?
E5?

torontosports10
10-25-2010, 07:23 PM
I'd be down, he knows how to hit. And not just home runs.

Snider
Escobar
Bautista
Ramirez
Lind
Wells
Hill
Buck/JPA?
E5?

E5 ewwwww haha

Id like:
1.Escobar SS (like him leadoff more than Snider, swicth if dont work)
2.Snider RF
3.Bautista 3B
4.Manny DH
5.Lind 1B
6.Wells CF
7.Hill 3B
8.O.Dawg 2B
9.JPA C

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 07:25 PM
how much would manny love to get back into the AL East, and rip the ball around Fenway and Yankee stadium again!?!

he's always hit VERY well at Rogers Centre too

yep and yep. I could see the interest being legit, at least from Manny's perspective. If the Jays arent interested then they are INSANE. Unless there is some major health concern... dude has a .411 CAREER OBP:speechless:
.988 CAREER OPS....

Should make for some exciting debate on here at least.... I have no doubts that some, perhaps many will think that Manny would be terrible for this team.... I will disagree, lol

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 07:28 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5727014

Outstanding praise, very exciting.
Its nice to have something Blue Jay related to be excited about in October... its been awhile.:rolleyes::D

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 07:30 PM
If and this is the deciding factor in my mind..IF we dont have to give up our picks, so IF the Sox dont offer him arbirtration, then im cool with Man Ram down here. HOWEVER, if he is offered arbirtration, and we must lose our picks, then stay away, hes not worth it.

I would do it regardless of the Comp picks involved.

Dol-Fan
10-25-2010, 07:49 PM
E5 ewwwww haha

Id like:
1.Escobar SS (like him leadoff more than Snider, swicth if dont work)
2.Snider RF
3.Bautista 3B
4.Manny DH
5.Lind 1B
6.Wells CF
7.Hill 3B
8.O.Dawg 2B
9.JPA C

That would be awesome, I agree that moving Hill to 3rd is the best option considering the 3B market out there...god I hate E5

North Yorker
10-25-2010, 07:53 PM
Well if this happened, then I would like to see a really good defensive 3B acquired. I'm not sure how solid a corner IF tandem of Lind/Bautista would do for the long haul, cuz if Manny is signed then Lind is your full time 1B.

I'm not saying go get Chone Figgins but that is exactly the type of player we could use. A leadoff 3B with good defense.

1.Figgins-esque-3B
2.Escobar-SS
3.Bautista-RF
4.Manny-DH
5.Lind-1B
6.Wells-CF
7.Snider-LF
8.Hill-2B
9.JPA/Molina-C

nstojic
10-25-2010, 08:18 PM
siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiign hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim !!!!!!!

still very productive...if you only look at his LA numbers from last year, CHI numbers aside because he was dealing with the groin, it projects to 20-23 HR's 95-110 RBI... with near .300 avg, OBP just below or over .400..... PLUS he'd actually generate a slight increase in attendance... AND he's cool with being the DH, exclusively.....what's not to like?

there's $$$ there and for those concerned over the pick(s) lost...SO WHAT???? this is the MLB draft we're talking about... the type of player you can get in the 5th round, let's say, is often as good IF NOT BETTER than the guy you get in the 1st round...

StealingSigns
10-25-2010, 08:25 PM
Wasn't he seen at the Eaton's Center last week, even before the hiring? I think he was viewing the Jays as a destination; the hiring of Farrell makes them that much more attractive.

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 08:27 PM
I would do it regardless of the Comp picks involved.

Good thing you're not the GM.

nstojic
10-25-2010, 08:46 PM
Good thing you're not the GM.

you sound like you can guarantee that these picks will amount to anything of any tangible value...


when it's quite common knowledge that the MLB draft is the biggest crapshoot of a draft, of them all...

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 08:50 PM
you sound like you can guarantee that these picks will amount to anything of any tangible value...


when it's quite common knowledge that the MLB draft is the biggest crapshoot of a draft, of them all...

No, nothing is gaurenteed.

It's also not gaurenteed that Ramirez won't come to the Jays and hit like ***** and disrupt the entire culture of the club house.

Why waist assets when you don't have to?

The Jays aren't close to contention, so why throw picks/assets away for a player who won't be around/won't be the same player when the Jays are in contention? Not to mention the potential of an enormous contract that could be Wells part 2 (not length, the amount).

I'm fine with signing Ramirez if it's a 2 year deal and it doesn't cost the Jays picks. This is a rebuilding team. You don't throw picks away when you're a rebuilding team.

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 08:53 PM
E5 ewwwww haha

Id like:
1.Escobar SS (like him leadoff more than Snider, swicth if dont work)
2.Snider RF
3.Bautista 3B
4.Manny DH
5.Lind 1B
6.Wells CF
7.Hill 3B
8.O.Dawg 2B
9.JPA C


That would be awesome, I agree that moving Hill to 3rd is the best option considering the 3B market out there...god I hate E5

Not sure if the league would be ok with Hill standing over at 3b with Bautista tho... ;):D

I would personally prefer they go after someone more helpful to the lineup than odawg.

Not sure if I would rather they parlay some youngsters into a really good young 3b/RF via trade, or take a chance on a high profile FA ie. Crawford.
I understand fully that Crawford is a big risk, especially after year 2 or 3 of the contract... but he does fill a need at the top of the order and provide and element of disruption on the basepaths that this team ALWAYS lacks...

The_Jet11
10-25-2010, 09:12 PM
similar but unrelated.... what about adding Delgado off the bench?

He's all but finished, but may want to retire a Jay, and could get some reps at 1B and DH as well as being a great pinch hitter and mentor to some of the Jays young bats!

Might off-set some of the Manny-Mania in the clubhouse and with the media, as Delgado has always been viewed as a team first, do-things-the-right-way type of player!

Imagine

Lind splitting time between 1B, LF and DH
Delgado getting some reps at 1B and DH on occasion
Ramirez DHing with some time in LF (for the odd mis-play of the day!)

and a line-up something like this:

SS) Escobar
2B) Hill
3B) Bautista
DH) Ramirez
LF) Lind
CF) Wells
1B) Delgado
C) Arencibia
RF) Snider

Dirtyyyyyy.

or

3B) Figgins
SS) Escobar
RF) Bautista
DH) Ramirez
1B) Lind
CF) Wells
2B) Hill
LF) Snider
C) Arencibia

With Delgado on the Bench to PH

LechWalesa
10-25-2010, 09:14 PM
Line-up A would be one of the worst defensive line-ups in the leauge.

nstojic
10-25-2010, 09:17 PM
No, nothing is gaurenteed.

It's also not gaurenteed that Ramirez won't come to the Jays and hit like ***** and disrupt the entire culture of the club house.

there's nothing, outside of age, that would make me think he'd suddenly STOP being manny AT THE PLATE... he's hit EVERYWHERE he's been..he's one of the best hitters we've seen in our time....

IMO, the clubhouse stuff is overrated... there's far more players and 'baseball people' who'll say that he's a bit loony but a great teammate who is loved, respected, and appreciated, everywhere he's been....


Why waist assets when you don't have to?

i'd rather waste a couple of assets that you can't even tell what they could be than support some of the other stuff thrown around in the trade thread 'oh let's package cecil and snider and some minor specs like stewart and whoever for fielder or gonzalez'..... all this really costs us is money and if, like we're told, there's money if the player is right, there'll be plenty more after some is given to ramirez...


The Jays aren't close to contention, so why throw picks/assets away for a player who won't be around/won't be the same player when the Jays are in contention? Not to mention the potential of an enormous contract that could be Wells part 2 (not length, the amount).

well, this past year showed that we're a bit closer than we thought, no? we're talking, what? two picks? There's no reason NOT to believe that, DH'ing exclusively, manny can't put up .285+, .375+, 25 HR, 100 RBI for the next 2-4 years... and NO, i wouldn't support signing him to wells money.... helllllll no! if it's in the neighbourhood of 10-14 mil per, i'd do it...


I'm fine with signing Ramirez if it's a 2 year deal and it doesn't cost the Jays picks. This is a rebuilding team. You don't throw picks away when you're a rebuilding team.
this isn't the NBA or NFL... the avg pick will take years to materialize at the MLB level... if at all!!!

Asham
10-25-2010, 09:31 PM
Sign Manny and David ortiz.

nstojic
10-25-2010, 09:41 PM
Sign Manny and David ortiz.

hahaha why stop there? let's get trot nixon in this sumbich...hell, it worked out well for the red sox in '04 hahahah

SA5195
10-25-2010, 10:07 PM
I have a man crush on Ramirez...

leafsrule99
10-25-2010, 10:18 PM
i think we should sign him...ppl are gonna pay to watch him...

Asham
10-25-2010, 10:21 PM
Sign Manny and convince the white sox to trade ozzie guillen for lyle overbay. Hire Ozzie as 1st base coach

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 10:27 PM
Good thing you're not the GM.

Thats true, its probably best I am not.... That being said, I would like to hear some valid arguments as to why he would not be an outstanding addition (of course "for the right price and/or term").

I hope he is willing to make a workeable deal for the chance to stick it to both the Sox and Yanks... not to mention doing it in the middle of the lineup with a fellow Dominican in Bautista on his childhood favourite team.
Both the GM and new Manager have acknowledged that they need to improve in the OBP dept... why not do it with a guy that can destroy the ball as well. Farrell has no loyalty to VW, so I would think its safe to assume that he can be moved down the order.

Bautista
VW
Escobar
ManRam
Lind
Snider
Hill

No guarantees that Hill and Lind return to expected levels or reasonably close, but no guarantees they dont.... I am excited about what Snider could do, I am comfortable in him starting. That 7 is very good.

As well noted, that leaves a 3b/OF hole to fill and a GM that I think is capable of filling it adequately (maybe even make a splash via trade or FA, at least the hopes of which will fill my winter, lol).

With the strength of this team on the mound with the potential to get stronger starting pitching (BP is a concern, but hopefully they retain Gregg, I dont care too much about the sandwich pick he'd bring back... I wouldnt be heartbroken if they retained Downs and gave up those potential picks too).

This team isnt as far off as many think they are in my opinion, and even if its not really gonna happen next season, why not get some of the pieces in place this year to make it less holes for 2012.

I am calling it now... Manny will be a Blue Jay next year!!!:clap::D

Halladay
10-25-2010, 10:36 PM
Giving up picks when you're a rebuilding team for a 38 DH would be insane.

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 10:40 PM
there's nothing, outside of age, that would make me think he'd suddenly STOP being manny AT THE PLATE... he's hit EVERYWHERE he's been..he's one of the best hitters we've seen in our time....

IMO, the clubhouse stuff is overrated... there's far more players and 'baseball people' who'll say that he's a bit loony but a great teammate who is loved, respected, and appreciated, everywhere he's been....



i'd rather waste a couple of assets that you can't even tell what they could be than support some of the other stuff thrown around in the trade thread 'oh let's package cecil and snider and some minor specs like stewart and whoever for fielder or gonzalez'..... all this really costs us is money and if, like we're told, there's money if the player is right, there'll be plenty more after some is given to ramirez...



well, this past year showed that we're a bit closer than we thought, no? we're talking, what? two picks? There's no reason NOT to believe that, DH'ing exclusively, manny can't put up .285+, .375+, 25 HR, 100 RBI for the next 2-4 years... and NO, i wouldn't support signing him to wells money.... helllllll no! if it's in the neighbourhood of 10-14 mil per, i'd do it...


this isn't the NBA or NFL... the avg pick will take years to materialize at the MLB level... if at all!!!

The remark about his hitting was tongue in cheek.

I don't think the club house stuff is overated. The guy pretty much wears out his welcome. On a short term signing, yes. Long term, no.

I'm totally against trading Cecil and Snider and some minor specs for Fielder/Gonzalez, so I don't know what that has to do with me. By the way, aren't Cecil and Snider two Jays draft picks?

This team is just as close to falling back as they are to contending. What happens if Wells and Bautista are next years' version of Hill and Lind? What happens if the pitching staff doesn't have as healthy a season? Who takes over for Downs and possibly Frasor when they leave via free agency? Who plays 3rd? Who plays 1st? I'm not saying this team and organization are not going in the right direct, because they are. The possibility that this team overachieved this year is greater than the possibility that they can now all of a sudden contend with the Rays, Yanks and Red Sox. They're not there yet.

Like I said in my post. I'm fine with signing Manny if it's on a 2 year deal without the Jays having to lose picks. That scenario is highly possible and a way better situation for the Jays than what was suggested.

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 10:43 PM
Thats true, its probably best I am not.... That being said, I would like to hear some valid arguments as to why he would not be an outstanding addition (of course "for the right price and/or term").

I hope he is willing to make a workeable deal for the chance to stick it to both the Sox and Yanks... not to mention doing it in the middle of the lineup with a fellow Dominican in Bautista on his childhood favourite team.
Both the GM and new Manager have acknowledged that they need to improve in the OBP dept... why not do it with a guy that can destroy the ball as well. Farrell has no loyalty to VW, so I would think its safe to assume that he can be moved down the order.

Bautista
VW
Escobar
ManRam
Lind
Snider
Hill

No guarantees that Hill and Lind return to expected levels or reasonably close, but no guarantees they dont.... I am excited about what Snider could do, I am comfortable in him starting. That 7 is very good.

As well noted, that leaves a 3b/OF hole to fill and a GM that I think is capable of filling it adequately (maybe even make a splash via trade or FA, at least the hopes of which will fill my winter, lol).

With the strength of this team on the mound with the potential to get stronger starting pitching (BP is a concern, but hopefully they retain Gregg, I dont care too much about the sandwich pick he'd bring back... I wouldnt be heartbroken if they retained Downs and gave up those potential picks too).

This team isnt as far off as many think they are in my opinion, and even if its not really gonna happen next season, why not get some of the pieces in place this year to make it less holes for 2012.

I am calling it now... Manny will be a Blue Jay next year!!!:clap::D

Sorry, I didn't mean to single you out. I just don't agree with giving up picks for an aging DH who in all likelihood won't be part of this team when it's contending.

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 10:44 PM
No, nothing is gaurenteed.

It's also not gaurenteed that Ramirez won't come to the Jays and hit like ***** and disrupt the entire culture of the club house.

Why waist assets when you don't have to?

The Jays aren't close to contention, so why throw picks/assets away for a player who won't be around/won't be the same player when the Jays are in contention? Not to mention the potential of an enormous contract that could be Wells part 2 (not length, the amount).

I'm fine with signing Ramirez if it's a 2 year deal and it doesn't cost the Jays picks. This is a rebuilding team. You don't throw picks away when you're a rebuilding team.

You dont throw away a chance to land one of the greatest hitters of our generation (all time really), who has yet to show that he is done as a hitter in any way. He has produced every year, and outside of a non-impressive 24 games with the ChiSox... was pretty good (reduced power #'s, but I will take the automatic .400 OBP on this team that doesnt lack for power. He wont get his $20 mil regardless, if this team is willing to spend when it makes sense, then I personally feel this is one of those opportunities you explore to improve your lineup (potentially dramatically) without touching ANY of your current assets (and leaving those current assets available to perhaps fill the few remaining holes)... I think it would be a shame to just dismiss him because you assume he will demand or command a monster deal and blow up the clubhouse.

He will be a Blue Jay next season.

Fans on here are just too hardwired to think or believe that a rebuild plan could fasttrack, especially when there have been as many breakouts on SP's the last 2 seasons (Morrow, Cecil, Romero), the successful return of an excellent Marcum and the potential excellent #5 stuff out of Drabek or others, not to mention the development of bautista and the fortunate acquisition of Escobar using a scrap heap FA signing to obtain him.
Maybe the Jays arent ready or wont be ready to win, but as long as they arent messing with the young assets they currently have, whats the harm in trying to be competitive?

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 10:47 PM
The harm is that you don't throw away assets when you don't have to.

It's just bad asset management, which I believe in fully and always have.

You don't just do something because you want to. You do it because there is a purpose in doing it.

Again, signing Man Ram on a 2 year deal without giving up picks is fine.

ah nuts
10-25-2010, 10:47 PM
signing Manny would make a Very Fun year. Worth the money, but not draft picks. He would have one year expiry date here in TO.

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 10:48 PM
The Jays aren't close to contention, so why throw picks/assets away for a player who won't be around/won't be the same player when the Jays are in contention? Not to mention the potential of an enormous contract that could be Wells part 2 (not length, the amount).


Also, anybody drafted using the picks obtained next June from Downs/Gregg etc will not be around for 5 years... I would hope the Jays are at least showing the potential to compete well before 2015 meaning Manny would be more likely to have an impact on a contending team.

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 10:51 PM
hahaha why stop there? let's get trot nixon in this sumbich...hell, it worked out well for the red sox in '04 hahahah

lol.... Kevin Millar and Johnny Damon.:D

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 10:53 PM
Also, anybody drafted using the picks obtained next June from Downs/Gregg etc will not be around for 5 years... I would hope the Jays are at least showing the potential to compete well before 2015 meaning Manny would be more likely to have an impact on a contending team.

That's correct, however you may be able to use those assets in order to acquire players in a trade when it looks like you can contend like the Brewers did for Sabathia, the Cardinals did for Holliday, etc.

Or perhaps you strike gold on a guy like Mike Trout, or Jaysen Heyward and you've got yourself a future superstar who may be able to make it in 3 years.

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 10:58 PM
This team is just as close to falling back as they are to contending. What happens if Wells and Bautista are next years' version of Hill and Lind? What happens if the pitching staff doesn't have as healthy a season? Who takes over for Downs and possibly Frasor when they leave via free agency? Who plays 3rd? Who plays 1st? I'm not saying this team and organization are not going in the right direct, because they are. The possibility that this team overachieved this year is greater than the possibility that they can now all of a sudden contend with the Rays, Yanks and Red Sox. They're not there yet.


You are absolutely correct in that we dont know what will happen next year and if this years team is nowhere near the 85 win team they were, BUT, the imaginary "What if's" can go both ways... doesnt all have to be negative.;)
What if Lind and Hill return to form (and Wells hits to career norms like he did last year) and Snider improves which he is very capable of doing IMO, Bautista is for real, at least 35-40hr real, AA acquires solid 3b or 1b.... etc etc

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 11:00 PM
You are absolutely correct in that we dont know what will happen next year and if this years team is nowhere near the 85 win team they were, BUT, the imaginary "What if's" can go both ways... doesnt all have to be negative.;)
What if Lind and Hill return to form (and Wells hits to career norms like he did last year) and Snider improves which he is very capable of doing IMO, Bautista is for real, at least 35-40hr real, AA acquires solid 3b or 1b.... etc etc

Usually the teams with the least amount of "What if's" ends up being the most legit.

Don't confuse what I'm posting as being negative. I'm very excited with the way this organization is going. They're just not there yet.

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 11:01 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to single you out. I just don't agree with giving up picks for an aging DH who in all likelihood won't be part of this team when it's contending.

No worries on the singling out... I am just happy to have this matter to discuss... I know we dont agree on what kind of impact Manny would/could have, but just the possibility of it happening has me all kinds of fired up... I never come on the internet outside of work hours... at least not in a non-porn capacity, haha.

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 11:04 PM
Hahaha.

Shifty1 69
10-25-2010, 11:06 PM
That's correct, however you may be able to use those assets in order to acquire players in a trade when it looks like you can contend like the Brewers did for Sabathia, the Cardinals did for Holliday, etc.

Or perhaps you strike gold on a guy like Mike Trout, or Jaysen Heyward and you've got yourself a future superstar who may be able to make it in 3 years.

Or you draft a guy who ends up never getting past AAA as sooo many do.
The picks could be a 2nd and 3rd rounder as it always seems to end up being with the Jays Type A's (at least Burnett and Scutaro) cause the team that signs them also signs another higher profile FA.... Yes you need to protect and value your building blocks and draft picks, but there are times when you need to weigh the cost vs. the return, and Manny Ramirez who is a notorious hard worker who could change a lineup instantly does not come along all that often I wouldnt think.

6th man
10-25-2010, 11:07 PM
I would sign to a small deal that has a decent bonus.

I also, want the Jays to go after Darvish. I truly beleive that he would good for your young rotation. We could make him the 4th starter(at the start of the season). Its not normal to see a team with a six man rotation at the start of the season, but we could try it out. This is one way to cut down on IP.

Romero
Cecil
Marcum
Darvish
Morrow
McGowan/Draybek/Litsch

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 11:20 PM
Or you draft a guy who ends up never getting past AAA as sooo many do.
The picks could be a 2nd and 3rd rounder as it always seems to end up being with the Jays Type A's (at least Burnett and Scutaro) cause the team that signs them also signs another higher profile FA.... Yes you need to protect and value your building blocks and draft picks, but there are times when you need to weigh the cost vs. the return, and Manny Ramirez who is a notorious hard worker who could change a lineup instantly does not come along all that often I wouldnt think.

Or you can use that asset in a trade, like I stated in my post.

Not sure what the Jays compensation for other teams signing picks has to do with this, but I believe the Jays would likely lose their first pick if they signed Ramirez because they are unlikely to also sign another free agent who is rated higher on Elias than him.

Adding Manny to this lineup doesn't make the Jays contenders during the time he will be a contributor, so the cost is < the return in my mind unless we're only talking about $$$ on a short term deal.

Obviously we're going to have to agree to disagree on the picks.

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 11:26 PM
I would sign to a small deal that has a decent bonus.

I also, want the Jays to go after Darvish. I truly beleive that he would good for your young rotation. We could make him the 4th starter(at the start of the season). Its not normal to see a team with a six man rotation at the start of the season, but we could try it out. This is one way to cut down on IP.

Romero
Cecil
Marcum
Darvish
Morrow
McGowan/Draybek/Litsch

Darvish recently stated that he was staying in Japan next season.

scottythegreat1
10-25-2010, 11:29 PM
I wouldnt want Manny on this team. Let me explain everything out on this one.

I dont want no "Manny being Manny" garbage going on in Toronto. He isnt going to the bathroom before he goes onto the field garbage or instigating other players because he got mad because he got hit, etc; I have always beena guy that would perfer to keep a good quality player on the team. Having a guy with his character is not worth ANY Price.

Scott Boras......We all know that with Scott Boras representing him that he will want 3 years and 60 million MINIMUM. I wouldnt dare pony up that type of money for a player thats 38 years old has a bad attittude and is going to be coming onto a team that has a bunch of younger players. Oh! let us not forget, he got suspended once for steroids, not that it matters anymore, but I wouldnt want that stain on my team if I were AA.

On the other hand, if AA does sign him and its for the right price, Id be for it. We all know that Manny and Scott Boras are going to be asking for superstar money for him and thats not right. No more than 1 year and 6 million (plus incentives) if Im AA.

DocJayzSpikx
10-26-2010, 12:02 AM
I doubt hes going to ask for superstar money. But whatever does happen it will obviously be interesting, whether it ACTUALLY happening or not it should be an interesting off-season, lets just hope for the best.

1hardcore
10-26-2010, 01:22 AM
I dunno.....
he's steadily declining !

2009mvp
10-26-2010, 01:37 AM
I wouldnt want Manny on this team. Let me explain everything out on this one.

I dont want no "Manny being Manny" garbage going on in Toronto. He isnt going to the bathroom before he goes onto the field garbage or instigating other players because he got mad because he got hit, etc; I have always beena guy that would perfer to keep a good quality player on the team. Having a guy with his character is not worth ANY Price.

Scott Boras......We all know that with Scott Boras representing him that he will want 3 years and 60 million MINIMUM. I wouldnt dare pony up that type of money for a player thats 38 years old has a bad attittude and is going to be coming onto a team that has a bunch of younger players. Oh! let us not forget, he got suspended once for steroids, not that it matters anymore, but I wouldnt want that stain on my team if I were AA.

On the other hand, if AA does sign him and its for the right price, Id be for it. We all know that Manny and Scott Boras are going to be asking for superstar money for him and thats not right. No more than 1 year and 6 million (plus incentives) if Im AA.

Uhh, he couldn't get 3/$60M coming off a season in which he slashed .332/.430/.601 and was 2 years younger than he is now. Not to mention that was before the whole PED suspension. If that's anything close to what they're demanding Manny won't be playing ball anywhere in 2011.

GNick
10-26-2010, 02:06 AM
John Farrell was on FAN590 last night, when asked about Manny's comments he said he would love to have Manny on Jays. Said not to be fooled by rumors about Manny, he is one of the hardest workers and most competitive players Farrell has ever worked with. Said Manny is arguably the greatest RH hitter of our generation.

BlueJayFanDan
10-26-2010, 03:45 AM
If he would come cheap I would welcome Manny to the team.

Lucho
10-26-2010, 06:04 AM
I have a man crush on Ramirez...

So do i man, so do i :)

If he signs, i will upgrade my braids to dreads and my occasional 500 ticket to season tickets :D
Get it donneee AA!!!!

Shifty1 69
10-26-2010, 08:19 AM
Uhh, he couldn't get 3/$60M coming off a season in which he slashed .332/.430/.601 and was 2 years younger than he is now. Not to mention that was before the whole PED suspension. If that's anything close to what they're demanding Manny won't be playing ball anywhere in 2011.

I concur... Manny gets nowhere near $20mill per.

Shifty1 69
10-26-2010, 08:24 AM
If he would come cheap I would welcome Manny to the team.

Only if he's cheap?? Do you mean bargain basement, only incentive based? Or do you mean cheap "for Manny".

I would hope they wouldnt overpay him in $ or term, but that doesnt mean I wouldnt give him good or fair money ($10-$13 a year for 2 years plus a 3rd on team option etc).

Shifty1 69
10-26-2010, 09:29 AM
Jeff Blair is claiming on his Fan590 radio show that he has inside sources that the Jays will be talking to Boras about Manny. He isnt claiming its a lock to get it done, but he is saying there has always been and remains significant interest from the Jays in getting him, only different thing is now the $ may have the chance to become a feasible # for the team.

I still think its very possible that Manny "really" wants to be here and will be flexible from the FA standpoint.... dont discount his being here in Toronto last week... why the hell else would he be here? He isnt on the card signing circuit.;)

The Jays are obligated to explore the possibility.

Billyen
10-26-2010, 09:46 AM
I was dragged into this rebuilding crap kicking and screaming. I do like what I see now and I "get" the potential. Another couple of good trades and a draft with a decent amount of picks that we overslot on ...makes me happy.

However, Manny is a interesting piece for now. I don't think he would have been good for us the last couple of years when he was mentioned headed here but now??? I think Manny (with no loss in picks) and a Greinke (we'll have to give up a bit there) we find those 10 extra wins. I think we move in with a high pair before the flop.

Manny has the "Ricky" effect.( I really hope everyone knows which Ricky I'm talking about). Managers and pitcher are thinking about what to do with him the night before. He provides OBP, protection for Bas or whoever decides to be hot next year and a overall spark to the line up. I also think Wells loses his god like figure in the club house... and that's a good thing.

Don't worry about the money...Rogers say they're willing to spend well...here you go. I'm thinking a 2 year 14-20 million, with a 2 million buy-out for a third with a 10 mill salary. If we can get him to not have a no trade clause we'd maybe even get a pick out of it.

Plus, as it's been said...it would be bloody fun to watch...even if it went south and we lose 100 games.

miller74
10-26-2010, 10:10 AM
Who cares what he costs it will be 2 years max and its not like by signing Manny is going to stop the Jays from signing another player, besides bullpen help, and a catcher what else are the really going to spend their money on?

FlakeyFool
10-26-2010, 10:38 AM
Sign him, hopefully he has a resurgence and then trade him at the deadline for a kings randsom. Win win as far as I'm concerned

1hardcore
10-26-2010, 11:16 AM
Don't sign him....
He's old and steadily declining. Even after the suspension

scottythegreat1
10-26-2010, 11:17 AM
Uhh, he couldn't get 3/$60M coming off a season in which he slashed .332/.430/.601 and was 2 years younger than he is now. Not to mention that was before the whole PED suspension. If that's anything close to what they're demanding Manny won't be playing ball anywhere in 2011.

Lets just make sure you understood my last post. Im saying thats what Manny and Boras will likely be asking for....obviously no one would take it, but we all know that Boras is going to be asking for this type of money for Ramirez.

Initially, my projection was that Ramirez would retire because no one would want to pay him all that money. It is still possible that I could be right. I admit though, as much as I would hate Ramirez on the team, this news that he would want to come here has certainly raised my eyebrow.

nstojic
10-26-2010, 11:28 AM
By the way, aren't Cecil and Snider two Jays draft picks?

For every Cecil and Snider, there's a Russ Adams

Presuming that the pick(s) we'd give up are in the top 2 rounds + compensatory rounds, here's a list of players we've drafted that early, from 2004-2008, omitting the '09 and '10 drafts because it's still too soon to tell what we've got...

Z. Jackson
Thigpen
Romero
Purcey
Snider
Ahrens
JPA
Cecil
J. Jackson
Magnuson
Tolisano
Eiland
Cooper
Wilson

the three bolded ones are the only guys to have an 'real' impact at the MLB level, to this point....and even Snider, some would argue, has yet to really do 'anything' tangible at the MLB level.... most of those other guys will never amount to anything but career minor leaguers... so, other than $$$, what are you really giving up for manny? you can't really tell, can you....

Eagles4Lyfe
10-26-2010, 01:04 PM
^^^ Purcey might finally become good for us as a reliever, which he seemed good at near the end last year, maybe a set up man..
But why waste money on a guy like manny but not try and sign a guy like adrian beltre whos younger fills a position of need and is still a good hitter

Shifty1 69
10-26-2010, 01:25 PM
^^^ Purcey might finally become good for us as a reliever, which he seemed good at near the end last year, maybe a set up man..
But why waste money on a guy like manny but not try and sign a guy like adrian beltre whos younger fills a position of need and is still a good hitter

Beltre is younger, but will probably command more years and probably more $.... and he has had nowhere near the consistent track record. That being said he will carry extra value in being an awesome defender at 3b.

Why compare, why not take both?? haha If they get Beltre or Crawford etc... I wouldnt consider the $ spent on Manny as being a waste.

2009mvp
10-26-2010, 01:47 PM
Wait we're not thinking that Manny is somehow gonna propel this team into contention, are we? The idea is sign him up and enjoy the ride. That's why there's absolutely no reason to even consider him if he's offered arb (though I almost guarantee he won't be). Manny is the kind of charismatic star this city hasn't seen since perhaps the day Roberto Alomar departed and most importantly wont hinder the continuing development of the young core. That's why he makes sense.

td0tsfinest
10-26-2010, 02:22 PM
I just read this right now. I don't mind Manny at all.

nstojic
10-26-2010, 02:24 PM
Wait we're not thinking that Manny is somehow gonna propel this team into contention, are we? The idea is sign him up and enjoy the ride. That's why there's absolutely no reason to even consider him if he's offered arb (though I almost guarantee he won't be). Manny is the kind of charismatic star this city hasn't seen since perhaps the day Roberto Alomar departed and most importantly wont hinder the continuing development of the young core. That's why he makes sense.

true...you don't sign this guy, saying 'this will get us to the promised land' but things he can do with the bat do help this club, going forward... no guy, you sign, can guarantee anything... you sign them and hope good stuff happens... if that good stuff impacts things enough that you find yourself to X amount of wins, awesome....and it would take a couple of 'comparable' acquisitions to generate expectations of 'contention', IMO... so no, he doesn't propel us into contention, per se... but it would be a positive indication from management and ownership that we're absolutely headed that way and invested into getting there....

nstojic
10-26-2010, 02:25 PM
Beltre is younger, but will probably command more years and probably more $.... and he has had nowhere near the consistent track record. That being said he will carry extra value in being an awesome defender at 3b.

Why compare, why not take both?? haha If they get Beltre or Crawford etc... I wouldnt consider the $ spent on Manny as being a waste.

is beltre not a guy who's been labelled a 'contract year' player? the D would be sweet, though...

AjBurnett
10-26-2010, 02:35 PM
Manny as been my fav players since his Indian days. I hope the Jays get him

StayOnBoard
10-26-2010, 03:00 PM
Wait we're not thinking that Manny is somehow gonna propel this team into contention, are we? The idea is sign him up and enjoy the ride. That's why there's absolutely no reason to even consider him if he's offered arb (though I almost guarantee he won't be). Manny is the kind of charismatic star this city hasn't seen since perhaps the day Roberto Alomar departed and most importantly wont hinder the continuing development of the young core. That's why he makes sense.

Completely agree with you... and this signing DOES make sense for the "fun" factor (for lack of a better word).

I would love this - in fact - I wish I never even heard this report because now I'll be disappointed if we DONT get him. Plugging him in at DH full time and moving Lind to 1st (or OF with Bautista at 3rd) would be awesome IMO. Hey and who knows... maybe he can even teach some of our hitters to actually HIT with RISP. Since we can never seem to do that properly and no one (maybe apart from Cody Ross? lol?) is more clutch. This guy hits when it counts and that's an attitude Toronto desperately needs.

nstojic
10-26-2010, 03:07 PM
i know you guys are talking about the 'fun' factor but how can some of you ignore that adding this bat to our lineup would make us better and thus, increase the probability of winning a few more games...

Nica
10-26-2010, 03:10 PM
If you sign him people will come. Attendance dropped last year even MLB's home run king doing his thing. Adding him will put fans in the seats (creates revenue), revitalize the Jays and make them relevant again in FA talks.
As for the possibility of having to give up comp picks ? Lets ask the stereo-typical Pirates or Royals fan how those high picks are working out for them ? They don't pan out or management has to trade an asset away as reduced revenue makes re-signing impossible.

Manny- for all his quirks and " Manny-isms" is a professional hitter. He's a throw-back to the hitters of yesterday when Gwynn, Boggs and Molitor were a constant threat.
And, for a refreshing change, an elite FA ( in any sport) actually wants to come to Toronto.

ChongInc.
10-26-2010, 03:26 PM
He could Probibly teach the young guys a thing or two about plate approach.

B2B
10-26-2010, 03:38 PM
Don't the Dodgers have to offer him arbitration for him to cost draft picks?.

nstojic
10-26-2010, 03:41 PM
Don't the Dodgers have to offer him arbitration for him to cost draft picks?.

white sox

GNick
10-26-2010, 03:52 PM
is beltre not a guy who's been labelled a 'contract year' player? the D would be sweet, though...

I wouldn't touch Beltre...He is a big contract and cost us our first round pick. He always a good year/bad year player

B2B
10-26-2010, 04:03 PM
On that note if they're going after Manny why not?

Trade (Stewart, Jenkins & Lind) for Fielder?.

Outbid Boston for Beltre & leave them with a hole in their pitching staff & 3rd/1st base pending on where they play lowel?.

Outfield - (LF Snider, CF Wells, RF Bautista)

Infield - (3B Beltre, SS Escobar, 2B Hill, 1B Fielder, DH Manny, C Molina/Arencibia)

Rotation - (Marcum, Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek) depth -Mills, Rezypski, Purcey, Jansen, Litch

Batting Order

Wells - must have speed to play CF (280 avg, 330 OB%)
Escobar
Manny (300 avg, 400 OB%)
Fielder (280 avg, 380 OB%)
Beltre - expect Manny/Fielder to clear base paths = base runner/s for Bautista
Bautista
Hill
Snider
Molina/Arencibia

Manny/Bautista/Fielder (each 30-40 HR potential) = possible 90-120 HR's. I figured the reason Wells batted cleanup is because he was the only power Jays had at the time, with Manny/Fielder can he hit leadoff?.

contracts

Manny = 10mil?.
Beltre = 10-14mil?.
Fielder = 20mil-25mil?.

using top figures = 49mil

Jays current payroll 70mil + 49mil = 119mil + need for a closer

B2B
10-26-2010, 04:06 PM
white sox

Don't they have to offer arbitration to cost draft picks?.

nstojic
10-26-2010, 04:07 PM
^^ yes....YES!.! YEEEEESSSSS!

nstojic
10-26-2010, 04:08 PM
Don't they have to offer arbitration to cost draft picks?.

yes, arbitration has to be offered

JimBob
10-26-2010, 04:15 PM
strange

Why is this strange? Manny has inquired about playing in Toronto in the past.

Shifty1 69
10-26-2010, 04:35 PM
Don't sign him....
He's old and steadily declining. Even after the suspension

Steady decline?? Please explain (without using the 24 games he played with the ChiSox). His power #'s were down last year... and he only hit 19 the year before (in 104 games)... but all the other #'s were still fantastic.

High .900's OPS every year but last.... 2 years ago was in the discussion for NL MVP after going to the league at midseason.

If he was blocking a MLB ready youngster I would say there are reasons to pass... but as I see it the only snag would be if Lind just flat out cannot play 1b, but I would hope he would be working on that like crazy in the offseason.
If that is the case then I would suggest that its Lind that is handcuffing this team more than Manny....

Shifty1 69
10-26-2010, 04:41 PM
is beltre not a guy who's been labelled a 'contract year' player? the D would be sweet, though...

Thats kinda what I was getting at... he shows up once every contract... at least Manny is consistent.

jon32
10-26-2010, 04:44 PM
Bring him in. Even if he is declining.....the fact that a big name player like Manny who is arguably the best RH of his era wants too come to Toronto and saying good things about it is great. This could lead to other players to think about Toronto as possible destinations later when Toronto is ready for sure. It would no doubt make Toronto more popular....not to mention likely put more ppl in the stands and more merchandise being sold ...all that would = more money.

Shifty1 69
10-26-2010, 04:45 PM
i know you guys are talking about the 'fun' factor but how can some of you ignore that adding this bat to our lineup would make us better and thus, increase the probability of winning a few more games...

While the ride that comes with "manny being manny" sounds like fun to me... I am with you on this that he is a very good candidate to dramatically help this lineup... not sure how that hurts this team, or is a non-worthwhile risk? People tend to act like the $ for Manny will be coming out of their pockets, lol.

wowzman
10-26-2010, 05:43 PM
Wait we're not thinking that Manny is somehow gonna propel this team into contention, are we? The idea is sign him up and enjoy the ride. That's why there's absolutely no reason to even consider him if he's offered arb (though I almost guarantee he won't be). Manny is the kind of charismatic star this city hasn't seen since perhaps the day Roberto Alomar departed and most importantly wont hinder the continuing development of the young core. That's why he makes sense.

This.

If he is offered arbitration then we should have absolutely no interest. However, if he is a FA with no compensation required and interested in coming to TO then we have to at least kick the tires.

dtmagnet
10-26-2010, 06:23 PM
Do it... Do it...

StayOnBoard
10-26-2010, 06:23 PM
While the ride that comes with "manny being manny" sounds like fun to me... I am with you on this that he is a very good candidate to dramatically help this lineup... not sure how that hurts this team, or is a non-worthwhile risk? People tend to act like the $ for Manny will be coming out of their pockets, lol.

Really? I haven't read every post on the thread but it seems the majority are all in favor of having Man-Ram put on a Jays uniform.

T.O. Fan
10-26-2010, 07:02 PM
For every Cecil and Snider, there's a Russ Adams

Presuming that the pick(s) we'd give up are in the top 2 rounds + compensatory rounds, here's a list of players we've drafted that early, from 2004-2008, omitting the '09 and '10 drafts because it's still too soon to tell what we've got...

Z. Jackson
Thigpen
Romero
Purcey
Snider
Ahrens
JPA
Cecil
J. Jackson
Magnuson
Tolisano
Eiland
Cooper
Wilson

the three bolded ones are the only guys to have an 'real' impact at the MLB level, to this point....and even Snider, some would argue, has yet to really do 'anything' tangible at the MLB level.... most of those other guys will never amount to anything but career minor leaguers... so, other than $$$, what are you really giving up for manny? you can't really tell, can you....

Technically you can still lose picks into the 3rd round and had you included those as well as the 2003 draft there would be guys like Adam Lind, Aaron Hill and Shaun Marcum on that list. Also, the Jays lost out on a chance to draft players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of 2006 because of losing them to compensation.

It's also arguable that both Purcey and JPA are likely to be on the team full time next season. Zach Jackson was used in a trade for Lyle Overbay. It's also very conceivable that with AA's innovative structure for the Jays scouting and player development departments that they are more likely to hit on better players than in the past.

nstojic
10-26-2010, 08:51 PM
Technically you can still lose picks into the 3rd round and had you included those as well as the 2003 draft there would be guys like Adam Lind, Aaron Hill and Shaun Marcum on that list. Also, the Jays lost out on a chance to draft players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of 2006 because of losing them to compensation.

It's also arguable that both Purcey and JPA are likely to be on the team full time next season. Zach Jackson was used in a trade for Lyle Overbay. It's also very conceivable that with AA's innovative structure for the Jays scouting and player development departments that they are more likely to hit on better players than in the past.

Hill
pettway
farina
liebel

these are the other guys selected in the 3rd round from 2004-2008...

and being on the team full time does not automatically equate to having a positive impact...

at the end of the day, we're talking about manny ramirez...i feel you bring that kind of bat, aboard...

GNick
10-26-2010, 08:55 PM
Trade (Stewart, Jenkins & Lind) for Fielder?.

Fielder = 20mil-25mil?.

You guys can't be serious about bringing Fielder here? To play on turf? Fielder RngR is -9.7 playing on grass, can you imagine him playing on a fast turf? Despite his bat Fielder's WAR is only 3.5 per 600 at bats. Then you want to give up three good young players to acquire him and pay him up to 25 million a season? Come on like.

You can sign a Derrek Lee or Adam Dunn and give up nil, keep our 3 young arms. Plus, either would sign for less than half what Fielder will receive. Dunn's WAR is 3.9, better than Fielder's. Lee's is 3.1, he has 2 Gold Gloves.

Jays Claw
10-26-2010, 09:48 PM
OBP% and team .AVG is needed for this one-dimensional offense. I'd sign Manny.

T.O. Fan
10-26-2010, 11:04 PM
Hill
pettway
farina
liebel

these are the other guys selected in the 3rd round from 2004-2008...

and being on the team full time does not automatically equate to having a positive impact...

at the end of the day, we're talking about manny ramirez...i feel you bring that kind of bat, aboard...

So of all the guys listed 9 of 20 have made it to the bigs with 6 of those making a contribution and one being used in a trade for Overbay? I'll take those odds any day of the week.

Looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

2 years of Manny isn't worth anything more than the $$$ you'll have to pay to sign him.

Shark
10-27-2010, 12:02 AM
Get him. Hell put ppl in the stands which means more profit and if hes traded a year or two later we could get a little somthin for him.

Lol traded a year or two later, thats funny, cuz in 2 years he will be 40 years old, and I dont know how you think many teams would be willing to give so much for a 40 year old.

I saw this article and my first instant reaction was DH, Lind should be moved to 1b already, giving us that DH spot, Manny's defense sucks and has been injured a few times. DH is a solid solution for Manny especially at his age, he still has power.

Btw Side Note: Manny has the most HR's at Rogers Centre when he is the on the opposing team that is. I may be wrong but I am pretty sure I saw it on a broadcast stat not to long ago.

Lol, can you imagine him playing 81 games at the rogers centre, should be fun.

Reasons to Sign him: Brings the fans in, can still hit, will generate money for team and will bring Jays into better contention.

Reasons Not to Sign him: He may want too much money, and maybe his age.

Rasser
10-27-2010, 12:09 AM
This is getting me fired up already

Pride
10-27-2010, 02:15 AM
I wonder how much of a discount Manny will be willing to give to Toronto. Also, if Ramirez performs well, it is possible we can trade him to a contender for some prospects. We all know what Manny is capable of, and the Jays need every bit of it. There's really no reason to not go after him unless a bidding war appears.

wamco
10-27-2010, 08:33 AM
1 yr 8M to TO.

I said weeks ago I'd take an offseason of Manny and Werth.

ah nuts
10-27-2010, 08:50 AM
Lol traded a year or two later, thats funny, cuz in 2 years he will be 40 years old, and I dont know how you think many teams would be willing to give so much for a 40 year old.

Reasons to Sign him: Brings the fans in, can still hit, will generate money for team and will bring Jays into better contention.

Reasons Not to Sign him: He may want too much money, and maybe his age.

plus gets injured quite a bit

Nuke
10-27-2010, 09:08 AM
^^^ That's why even Manny has said he would be a better fit as a DH

nstojic
10-27-2010, 09:57 AM
^^^ That's why even Manny has said he would be a better fit as a DH

just about to write this.. if he's just the full-time DH, like he's said he wants to be, there's no reason he can't give you 145+ games...

nstojic
10-27-2010, 10:04 AM
So of all the guys listed 9 of 20 have made it to the bigs with 6 of those making a contribution and one being used in a trade for Overbay? I'll take those odds any day of the week.

Looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

2 years of Manny isn't worth anything more than the $$$ you'll have to pay to sign him.

that 9 of 20 is just the jays... looking through some of those rounds, the vast majority of the other teams picks, never made it... for example, the '04 3rd round we took Lind in, of the other 29 picks that round, there's only one or two other names that have made any real impact at the mlb level... wade davis and j.a. happ

T.O. Fan
10-27-2010, 10:18 AM
that 9 of 20 is just the jays... looking through some of those rounds, the vast majority of the other teams picks, never made it... for example, the '04 3rd round we took Lind in, of the other 29 picks that round, there's only one or two other names that have made any real impact at the mlb level... wade davis and j.a. happ

We are talking about the Jays though right?

nstojic
10-27-2010, 10:20 AM
We are talking about the Jays though right?

we are but i'm just trying to say that, in general terms, with the large number of draft picks selected, the number of them that actually have any impact at all, is quite small...

T.O. Fan
10-27-2010, 10:35 AM
we are but i'm just trying to say that, in general terms, with the large number of draft picks selected, the number of them that actually have any impact at all, is quite small...

I agree with this statement that in general that's the case, but it hasn't been the case with the Jays in recent history.

It still doesn't make sense for the Jays as they stand right now to give up a 1st round pick to sign a player who in all likelihood won't be around when they are a legitimate contender. If you're talking about a younger guy like a Crawford (29), or a Gonzalez (28) next year then absolutely. Manny is 38 years old. Still a heck of a player and I would definitely want him if it just costs $$$, which will probably be the case.

nithanyo
10-27-2010, 10:35 AM
He should not be offered arbitration by the Chi Sox, and he should not command more than 8 million. If we can get both that and he is still healthy than why not?

T.O. Fan
10-27-2010, 10:38 AM
He should not be offered arbitration by the Chi Sox, and he should not command more than 8 million. If we can get both that and he is still healthy than why not?

Exactly.

nstojic
10-27-2010, 10:43 AM
I agree with this statement that in general that's the case, but it hasn't been the case with the Jays in recent history.

that was JP, this is new management :eyebrow:




It still doesn't make sense for the Jays as they stand right now to give up a 1st round pick to sign a player who in all likelihood won't be around when they are a legitimate contender. If you're talking about a younger guy like a Crawford (29), or a Gonzalez (28) next year then absolutely. Manny is 38 years old. Still a heck of a player and I would definitely want him if it just costs $$$, which will probably be the case.

well, look at crawford and look at wells... even though it's just $$$ people haaate the wells contract... and many say that a guy like crawford will get way more than he's worth and people will ***** about bad contracts... haha you just can't win...

at the end of the day, i sign the guy even if there's a pick or two involved because his name gets more people talkin' jays in this city and that's never a bad thing... plus, you've got a crafty AA pulling off trades like the morrow one so, you can still somehow replenish those lost assets..

T.O. Fan
10-27-2010, 11:50 AM
that was JP, this is new management :eyebrow:





well, look at crawford and look at wells... even though it's just $$$ people haaate the wells contract... and many say that a guy like crawford will get way more than he's worth and people will ***** about bad contracts... haha you just can't win...

at the end of the day, i sign the guy even if there's a pick or two involved because his name gets more people talkin' jays in this city and that's never a bad thing... plus, you've got a crafty AA pulling off trades like the morrow one so, you can still somehow replenish those lost assets..

Do you honestly think that this management team will have a worse drafting record than JP??????????

Add a guy like Morrow. You mean trade two former draft picks to add a guy like Morrow right?

You're taking my statement out of context. I'm not saying that I want them to sign Crawford. I was using that as an example of a guy who is in his prime or entering his prime.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree and I believe AA would too seeing as he has stated repeatedly that he is building this team to be a perrennial contender and not a one season wonder.

nstojic
10-27-2010, 11:57 AM
Do you honestly think that this management team will have a worse drafting record than JP??????????
no...that's what the eyebrow smiley was for... and people don't give jp enough credit for the 'good' stuff his tenure brought..




You're taking my statement out of context. I'm not saying that I want them to sign Crawford. I was using that as an example of a guy who is in his prime or entering his prime.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree and I believe AA would too seeing as he has stated repeatedly that he is building this team to be a perrennial contender and not a one season wonder.

no no, i get what you were saying about crawford and i didn't mean as crawford relates to the jays, i just meant big $$$ contracts for guys who won't be worth the price, in general...

going along with the game plan of building a contender, i think we can get 2, maybe 3 years of manny...

nstojic
10-27-2010, 12:00 PM
Add a guy like Morrow. You mean trade two former draft picks to add a guy like Morrow right?


yeah...draft picks in the later rounds, which we'd still have at our disposal even if we had to give one or two up to sign manny... that's the MLB draft... after the first 5-10 guys, there's all sorts of talent for round after round...

T.O. Fan
10-27-2010, 12:11 PM
yeah...draft picks in the later rounds, which we'd still have at our disposal even if we had to give one or two up to sign manny... that's the MLB draft... after the first 5-10 guys, there's all sorts of talent for round after round...

That can also be argued that the Jays were able to give up those players because of the depth they have built through the draft in the earlier rounds.

Either way, I have to get back to work or I'll be on here more often than I'd like ;)

bagwell368
10-27-2010, 04:00 PM
You dont throw away a chance to land one of the greatest hitters of our generation (all time really), who has yet to show that he is done as a hitter in any way. He has produced every year

He will be a Blue Jay next season.


As an expert on the AL East I find it strange you would advocate Manny to the Jays.

While his OPS+ has dropped from: 165, 153, 138 over the past 3 years,

his games played has dropped: 153, 104, 90 (yes there was a suspension)

He'll be 39 in May.


He as faked an injury, and then confused which knee it was.
He has pushed a senior citizen to the ground - the Red Sox travelling secretary.
He has lied to his teammates and the media.
He has often placed the well being of team and teammates 2nd.
He's taken female hormones to "pump up" his stats.
Indians fans warned Red Sox fans
Red Sox fans warned LAD fans.
He was hailed as a misunderstood hero when he got to LAD, and they couldn't wait to dump him after a couple of years. In fact his suspension and lack of production has damaged the last two LAD seasons.

Your new Manager was present for the worse of Manny's behavior in Boston. How strange for anyone to assure his fellow fans this menace will be signed as a DH for the Jays - in particular when the DH/1B FA market is quite rich with choices. You think that Manny going to some night clubs and saying he wants to play in Toronto will make it so? Or that he's one of the 25 greatest hitters ever? Toronto Blue Jays need to live in the now to succeed - don't you think?

craigerlee
10-27-2010, 05:30 PM
I would love to see many in Toronto if we can get him cheap. However I wouldn't give up any picks for him. I know a lot of people make a valid argument that MLB draft is a crapshoot, but the more picks you have the better your chances of hitting on a solid player. Also signing Manny vaguely reminds me of when we signed Frank Thomas.

nstojic
10-27-2010, 05:42 PM
IHowever I wouldn't give up any picks for him. I know a lot of people make a valid argument that MLB draft is a crapshoot, but the more picks you have the better your chances of hitting on a solid player.

fair point... but are not going to get a few from some of the departing players? Buck, Downs, etc?


Also signing Manny vaguely reminds me of when we signed Frank Thomas.

Thomas, statistically, was our best bat, that first year...

craigerlee
10-27-2010, 05:55 PM
Thomas, statistically, was our best bat, that first year...

True Thomas had pretty good first season, but we signed him to two years 18 million. He had an atrocious second year in which we paid him 8 million for, thats almost as bad as when we paid BJ Ryan 9 million to not play for us.

Thank god we fired JP.

nstojic
10-27-2010, 06:17 PM
True Thomas had pretty good first season, but we signed him to two years 18 million. He had an atrocious second year in which we paid him 8 million for, thats almost as bad as when we paid BJ Ryan 9 million to not play for us.

Thank god we fired JP.

i'll never understand you jp haters... how can you commend the good year by thomas and trash jp cause thomas got old fast, the second year and how can you rip jp for bj ryan getting injured?!?!?!? his first year in a jays uniform, ryan was one of the best closers in the league..then he was injured...then, his 3rd year, he was pretty good... HOW THE **** IS A GM SUPPOSED TO PREDICT INJURIES WILL TAKE PLACE?!?!?!?

craigerlee
10-27-2010, 06:51 PM
i'll never understand you jp haters... how can you commend the good year by thomas and trash jp cause thomas got old fast, the second year and how can you rip jp for bj ryan getting injured?!?!?!? his first year in a jays uniform, ryan was one of the best closers in the league..then he was injured...then, his 3rd year, he was pretty good... HOW THE **** IS A GM SUPPOSED TO PREDICT INJURIES WILL TAKE PLACE?!?!?!?

How can you defend JP? BJ Ryan was a horrible signing, Its never a good idea for a team with a low degree of error to a sign a pitcher to such a long term deal worth so much. (ex. hampton, dreifort and chan ho park) Especially a closer when he only matters for one inning. Yet he signed two pitchers to 5 year deals and the Burnett deal wasn't a lot better. For those two pitchers alone JP shelled out 80 million for roughly 3 good seasons between the two.

The Vernon Wells contract is so back loaded that he's essentially untradeable and causes so much financial restrictions on the jays going forward. I don't know how you could think having a quarter of your salary committed to one guy is a good idea. (ex A-rod and the rangers).

I would say his drafting has been pretty average at best, The yankees and the red sox seem to draft just as well and they pick after us every year and don't get as many supplementary picks. I still think he should of taken Tulo over Romero, considering Tulo was the consensus pick by everyone.

nstojic
10-27-2010, 07:16 PM
How can you defend JP? BJ Ryan was a horrible signing, Its never a good idea for a team with a low degree of error to a sign a pitcher to such a long term deal worth so much. (ex. hampton, dreifort and chan ho park) Especially a closer when he only matters for one inning. Yet he signed two pitchers to 5 year deals and the Burnett deal wasn't a lot better. For those two pitchers alone JP shelled out 80 million for roughly 3 good seasons between the two.

The Vernon Wells contract is so back loaded that he's essentially untradeable and causes so much financial restrictions on the jays going forward. I don't know how you could think having a quarter of your salary committed to one guy is a good idea. (ex A-rod and the rangers).

I would say his drafting has been pretty average at best, The yankees and the red sox seem to draft just as well and they pick after us every year and don't get as many supplementary picks. I still think he should of taken Tulo over Romero, considering Tulo was the consensus pick by everyone.

there's an sound argument for each of your points... but i don't care to derail the the thread.. i've argued this before...

StealingSigns
10-27-2010, 07:42 PM
Yeah, lets leave JP out of this. Time to move on.

craigerlee
10-27-2010, 07:48 PM
I totally agree with you nstojic lets stop talking about JP, the past is the past.

I know a lot of people have mentioned how the majority of players in the draft don't pan out, and that we shouldn't worry about losing picks to sign Manny. There's an ESPN article by Tim Kurkjian about Ross Ohlendorff a pitcher for the pirates who's a Princeton graduate who wrote a thesis on how the draft is a better investment than free agency. He concluded that on average that a drafted player will bring twice the return of his signing bonus.

Just thought this was a good point to bring up to argue that those draft picks are quite valuable, cause you have to take into consideration that if manny was to get arbitration and then sign with us, we would give up both the picks and money used to sign draft picks.

Shifty1 69
10-27-2010, 11:15 PM
As an expert on the AL East I find it strange you would advocate Manny to the Jays.

While his OPS+ has dropped from: 165, 153, 138 over the past 3 years,

his games played has dropped: 153, 104, 90 (yes there was a suspension)

He'll be 39 in May.


He as faked an injury, and then confused which knee it was.
He has pushed a senior citizen to the ground - the Red Sox travelling secretary.
He has lied to his teammates and the media.
He has often placed the well being of team and teammates 2nd.
He's taken female hormones to "pump up" his stats.
Indians fans warned Red Sox fans
Red Sox fans warned LAD fans.

He was hailed as a misunderstood hero when he got to LAD, and they couldn't wait to dump him after a couple of years. In fact his suspension and lack of production has damaged the last two LAD seasons.

Your new Manager was present for the worse of Manny's behavior in Boston. How strange for anyone to assure his fellow fans this menace will be signed as a DH for the Jays - in particular when the DH/1B FA market is quite rich with choices. You think that Manny going to some night clubs and saying he wants to play in Toronto will make it so? Or that he's one of the 25 greatest hitters ever? Toronto Blue Jays need to live in the now to succeed - don't you think?

Welcome to the Jays forum!!:)
and yes I do think he is coming to Toronto and yep I am excited by it.

Shifty1 69
10-28-2010, 09:03 AM
As an expert on the AL East I find it strange you would advocate Manny to the Jays.

While his OPS+ has dropped from: 165, 153, 138 over the past 3 years, Not too bad when a 3 year regression resulted in a 138 OPS+, now that he'd be a fulltime DH and hitting in the Rogers centre and Fenway and Yankee stadium for 100 games a year... I am not concerned about his ability to hit to at least a level that dramatically improves this lineup.... the automatic .400 OBP is at least 1 answer to one of the biggest problems this lineup faces (lack of a true leadoff/speedster is another)

his games played has dropped: 153, 104, 90 (yes there was a suspension) - Fair point - but him acknowledging his willingness to go fulltime DH could be a big help on this.... also, if it turned out he played 100 games, so be it... that still 100 games the Jays had a helluva better stick in the lineup than Fred Lewis and worse case scenario... its not my $. lolHe'll be 39 in May. - indeed

He as faked an injury, and then confused which knee it was.
He has pushed a senior citizen to the ground - the Red Sox travelling secretary.
He has lied to his teammates and the media. - lol, ok... still dont see the infux of teammates saying they dont like him, but I could be wrong
He has often placed the well being of team and teammates 2nd.
He's taken female hormones to "pump up" his stats.As have most players in the league I am quite convinced
Indians fans warned Red Sox fans - I am sure Indians fans had the last laugh while Manny was getting showered in champagne after the 2 world championships.:rolleyes::D
Red Sox fans warned LAD fans. - Yep, again... I am sure the Dodger fans hated the 1.23 OPS in leading the charge to the playoffsHe was hailed as a misunderstood hero when he got to LAD, and they couldn't wait to dump him after a couple of years. In fact his suspension and lack of production has damaged the last two LAD seasons.yep, it was all him that provided the distraction that made them underachieve... the McCourt divorce, Kemp issues, Broxton imploding etc etc etc etc had nothing to do with it

Your new Manager was present for the worse of Manny's behavior in Boston. Yet he still glows about his work ethic and abilities and says that he would like the opportunity to have him on board How strange for anyone to assure his fellow fans this menace will be signed as a DH for the Jays Menace, lol... Manny is all about Manny... yep, we all get that... but in a game where he will be paid to hit... unlike the NBA, NHL... there are not many intangibles in his game that will affect any of his teammates ability to do their job, he doesnt have the opportunity to blow a coverage;) 2004 and 2007 it sure looked like his teammates LOVED him... even as a Jays fan I enjoyed the idiot show- in particular when the DH/1B FA market is quite rich with choices. maybe some decent choices.. but I dont see anyone that has his ability, especially one that could be brought in without touching any of the young/core assets and for a reasonable $/term... besides I would quite welcome the Jays making more acquisitions from the rich market You think that Manny going to some night clubs and saying he wants to play in Toronto will make it so? Doesnt "make it so", but it doesnt hurt the chances.... and he was spotted out and about shopping during the day... ;):p Or that he's one of the 25 greatest hitters ever? indeed he is Toronto Blue Jays need to live in the now to succeed - don't you think? I agree - which is why I think they should live in the now and at least look at what it would take to bring him in. Even if they dont contend, if he can be had for a somewhat reasonable $/term, then what the hell, at least there should be some entertainment, haha

Listen Bagwell, I shouldnt have voiced as much in the Sox forum, my intentions were not to instigate anything over there (or here by extension)... but I will admit I did get my back up a bit with some of what you said... Specifically the implying that the Jays will be folding and moving to Jacksonville, or the matter of fact way that you claim that they cant or wont spend to compete when I feel you are uninformed on the matter.
I get the idea that when a team is rebuilding you want to acquire, develop and let the youngins play. What I dont get is the idea that its bad to bring in a big bat on the cheap (relatively speaking) for a limited term that may or may not be here when it comes time to contend, but it really wont matter because he isnt holding up any younger players. If Lind cannot do anything but DH in his mid 20's, then perhaps that limitation and what effect it has on the team should be reevaluated.

Just for fun... from earlier this week:

"At the right time," Bruce Arthur of the National Post quotes Farrell as saying, "and this is where the conversations got very pointed with Alex (Anthopolous) -- at the right time there is going to be the ability to support a very strong payroll, and one that will allow us to compete at the highest level."

bagwell368
10-28-2010, 09:46 AM
Listen Bagwell, I shouldnt have voiced as much in the Sox forum, my intentions were not to instigate anything over there (or here by extension)... but I will admit I did get my back up a bit with some of what you said... Specifically the implying that the Jays will be folding and moving to Jacksonville, or the matter of fact way that you claim that they cant or wont spend to compete when I feel you are uninformed on the matter.
I get the idea that when a team is rebuilding you want to acquire, develop and let the youngins play. What I dont get is the idea that its bad to bring in a big bat on the cheap (relatively speaking) for a limited term that may or may not be here when it comes time to contend, but it really wont matter because he isnt holding up any younger players. If Lind cannot do anything but DH in his mid 20's, then perhaps that limitation and what effect it has on the team should be reevaluated.

Just for fun... from earlier this week:

"At the right time," Bruce Arthur of the National Post quotes Farrell as saying, "and this is where the conversations got very pointed with Alex (Anthopolous) -- at the right time there is going to be the ability to support a very strong payroll, and one that will allow us to compete at the highest level."

OK.

I just want to talk about Manny. He's the best RH hitter I've seen on the Red Sox - puts Tony C, Rice, and all the rest in the shadows.

But he comes at a cost beyond the dollars, and he isn't getting any younger. Also there are a goodly amount of FA's at DH this year. All of them would be better teammates and most would cost less. Does he have a higher ceiling then most of them? Sure. Is he liable to screw the team he plays for more then the rest? Yes.

Trust me, the man had to go, and as you well know, most players won't speak out in public, but a few did. Tek hated his guts. Youk and Pedroia were done with the guy. There were others. The media coddled the guy for a long time, but they along with the fans turned on him too. There were a lot of claims of racism at first, but go ask LAD fans what they think now?

As I read your earlier comments I see you really don't have a clue, here you go:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=5512674

Sorry after finishing more of your sardonic and ill informed response I hope the Jays get all of Manny you can take - and more. And your righteous anger or no, crummy attendance figures, and monumental (but so far not seen deep pockets owner) add up to: have fun in 4th place, with designs on 3rd in '11, '12, and '13. After that at least one 3rd and one 2nd place finish by 2020. It should be fun.

ah nuts
10-28-2010, 10:07 AM
OK.

I just want to talk about Manny. He's the best RH hitter I've seen on the Red Sox - puts Tony C, Rice, and all the rest in the shadows.

But he comes at a cost beyond the dollars, and he isn't getting any younger. Also there are a goodly amount of FA's at DH this year. All of them would be better teammates and most would cost less. Does he have a higher ceiling then most of them? Sure. Is he liable to screw the team he plays for more then the rest? Yes.

Trust me, the man had to go, and as you well know, most players won't speak out in public, but a few did. Tek hated his guts. Youk and Pedroia were done with the guy. There were others. The media coddled the guy for a long time, but they along with the fans turned on him too. There were a lot of claims of racism at first, but go ask LAD fans what they think now?

As I read your earlier comments I see you really don't have a clue, here you go:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=5512674

Sorry after finishing more of your sardonic and ill informed response I hope the Jays get all of Manny you can take - and more. And your righteous anger or no, crummy attendance figures, and monumental (but so far not seen deep pockets owner) add up to: have fun in 4th place, with designs on 3rd in '11, '12, and '13. After that at least one 3rd and one 2nd place finish by 2020. It should be fun.

and i hope boston enjoys 5th place.

as your boss put it in so many words - the jays are going to be force to deal with in the coming future.

fyi - our tv audience have not been higher in a long time, interest is rapidly increasing after we got rid of that boston joke of a GM, JP.

The jays are a unique "country" team - so actual attendance is mis-leading in both their interest and the $$$ they bring in.

wow are you ever mis-informed.

T.O. Fan
10-28-2010, 11:58 AM
OK.

I just want to talk about Manny. He's the best RH hitter I've seen on the Red Sox - puts Tony C, Rice, and all the rest in the shadows.

But he comes at a cost beyond the dollars, and he isn't getting any younger. Also there are a goodly amount of FA's at DH this year. All of them would be better teammates and most would cost less. Does he have a higher ceiling then most of them? Sure. Is he liable to screw the team he plays for more then the rest? Yes.

Trust me, the man had to go, and as you well know, most players won't speak out in public, but a few did. Tek hated his guts. Youk and Pedroia were done with the guy. There were others. The media coddled the guy for a long time, but they along with the fans turned on him too. There were a lot of claims of racism at first, but go ask LAD fans what they think now?

As I read your earlier comments I see you really don't have a clue, here you go:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=5512674

Sorry after finishing more of your sardonic and ill informed response I hope the Jays get all of Manny you can take - and more. And your righteous anger or no, crummy attendance figures, and monumental (but so far not seen deep pockets owner) add up to: have fun in 4th place, with designs on 3rd in '11, '12, and '13. After that at least one 3rd and one 2nd place finish by 2020. It should be fun.

Looks like the playoffs will be expanding as early as 2012, so hopefully the Jays will have their opportunity sooner rather than later.

Shifty1 69
10-28-2010, 02:58 PM
OK.

I just want to talk about Manny. He's the best RH hitter I've seen on the Red Sox - puts Tony C, Rice, and all the rest in the shadows.

But he comes at a cost beyond the dollars, and he isn't getting any younger. Also there are a goodly amount of FA's at DH this year. All of them would be better teammates and most would cost less. Does he have a higher ceiling then most of them? Sure. Is he liable to screw the team he plays for more then the rest? Yes.

Trust me, the man had to go, and as you well know, most players won't speak out in public, but a few did. Tek hated his guts. Youk and Pedroia were done with the guy. There were others. The media coddled the guy for a long time, but they along with the fans turned on him too. There were a lot of claims of racism at first, but go ask LAD fans what they think now?

As I read your earlier comments I see you really don't have a clue, here you go:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=5512674

Sorry after finishing more of your sardonic and ill informed response I hope the Jays get all of Manny you can take - and more. And your righteous anger or no, crummy attendance figures, and monumental (but so far not seen deep pockets owner) add up to: have fun in 4th place, with designs on 3rd in '11, '12, and '13. After that at least one 3rd and one 2nd place finish by 2020. It should be fun.

:clap::D great post!!!

Its refreshing to see a Sox fan that argues their point without showing a blatent blind bias or displaying an incredibly annoying sense of entitlement.

I am sure Manny is singlehandedly killing the teams hes played for... The sox were worse off for having him obviously... and he didnt help the Dodgers at all. It not like he put up truly ridiculous #s to get them to the playoffs in his first year. It had to be all him that made them miss the playoffs last year too. I am also sure that the Dodgers trading him at the deadline had nothing to do with them being behind the Padres, Rockies and Giants in the NL West at the break with the toughest schedule in all of baseball in the 2nd half upcoming, not to mention the owners having an epic divorce battle in the media and taking the opportunity to unload a $25 mil contract when it was well reported that the finances of the team were tied up in the divorce proceedings.

Yes he is a selfish flakey man... but baseball is a game of hitter vs. pitcher, and I will take the chance that he can still pound a ball and get on base and risk the rest (or enjoy the ****-show... either way).

Just thought.... the Red Sox must be doomed, they cant possibly win with JD Drew cause is overpaid with a history of attitude and injury issues.:rolleyes:

Have a super night!!

craigerlee
10-28-2010, 03:19 PM
I love how picked Jacksonville as a market the jays are likely to move to. They can't even get people to watch their football team, what chance do they have to get people to watch their baseball team.

2009mvp
10-28-2010, 11:04 PM
Yeah cause Major League Baseball is booming in the state of Florida as it is...

WpggerinEdm
10-29-2010, 10:40 AM
No thanks, I would pass on him. He's looking for another Mannyland. Boston does not want him back and neither does LA. Why would we escalate the Jays payroll for this guy? I like the youth movement going on and there will be ALOT better veteran players this off season that will be available and for ALOT cheaper too. I'd pass on him.

Why not bring back Delgado for $2M to play 1B? How about Vlad Guerrero - he'd ask for $5M but he'd give us 100 RBI guaranteed if he played 1B and DH every day. Those seems to be less expensive options I can think of right now. Any other options?>

Shifty1 69
10-29-2010, 11:36 AM
No thanks, I would pass on him. He's looking for another Mannyland. Boston does not want him back and neither does LA. Why would we escalate the Jays payroll for this guy? I like the youth movement going on and there will be ALOT better veteran players this off season that will be available and for ALOT cheaper too. I'd pass on him.

Why not bring back Delgado for $2M to play 1B? How about Vlad Guerrero - he'd ask for $5M but he'd give us 100 RBI guaranteed if he played 1B and DH every day. Those seems to be less expensive options I can think of right now. Any other options?>

Name those that would come ALOT cheaper (ignoring pieces of crap obviously) and even more questionable to me... name those that are ALOT better veterans??:rolleyes:
There are players that have more productive years left, Crawford/werth etc... but they will come with a huge contract and worse yet looong term...
I would think Manny would come in for a 1 maybe 2 year contract for marginally more than Overbay was making.... what are you saving the $ for?? What young players is he blocking? I have always like Delgado, but he has ALOT more to prove that he can return to a useful hitter than Manny does.IMO

Even with his ****+iest year ever, he would have the 2nd best OPS on the Jays last year behind only Bautista. Assuming he healthier and only focusing on hitting, I dont for a second think it is a stretch to think he could land comfortably in the .900's for OPS (which is still below his career averages).

Yes he can be a selfish flakey dink... but worst case scenario he gets cut loose (doubt it, but whatever) and the Jays eat another $10mil... not sure why people are so up in arms about $ that is not theirs??

Well worth the risk IMO

FlakeyFool
10-29-2010, 02:11 PM
Lets jus put it this way... without manny that 86 year drought would be 92 and counting. Manny was the biggest offensive threat in both championship teams.

this.

ah nuts
10-29-2010, 03:01 PM
1 year with good $$$ for manny and a jays option for another (which the jays don't take)

unlikely manny(agent) would but he's old with declining value.

FlakeyFool
10-29-2010, 03:37 PM
If you can sign the '04 Manny go for it.

BTW, in those years Ortiz was the guy that did the heavy lifting in the clutch.

oh yes when he was juicing right?

craigerlee
10-29-2010, 04:07 PM
If we actually do get manny what happens to our defensive, does Bautista shift to 3rd, Snider to right, Lind to 1st and fred lewis stays in left? We do upgrade at 3rd, but a pilon is an upgrade from encarnacion. This leaves me a little worried about our defence especially at 1st. We have quite a few guys that rely on groundball outs, so I'm really worried about losing a lot of those outs cause of Lind. What do you guys think?

Billyen
10-29-2010, 08:32 PM
This message has been deleted by dbroncos78087. Reason: Unnecessary comments

8-)

GNick
10-30-2010, 02:25 AM
OK.

I just want to talk about Manny. He's the best RH hitter I've seen on the Red Sox - puts Tony C, Rice, and all the rest in the shadows.

But he comes at a cost beyond the dollars, and he isn't getting any younger. Also there are a goodly amount of FA's at DH this year. All of them would be better teammates and most would cost less. Does he have a higher ceiling then most of them? Sure. Is he liable to screw the team he plays for more then the rest? Yes.

Trust me, the man had to go, and as you well know, most players won't speak out in public, but a few did. Tek hated his guts. Youk and Pedroia were done with the guy. There were others. The media coddled the guy for a long time, but they along with the fans turned on him too. There were a lot of claims of racism at first, but go ask LAD fans what they think now?

As I read your earlier comments I see you really don't have a clue, here you go:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=5512674

Sorry after finishing more of your sardonic and ill informed response I hope the Jays get all of Manny you can take - and more. And your righteous anger or no, crummy attendance figures, and monumental (but so far not seen deep pockets owner) add up to: have fun in 4th place, with designs on 3rd in '11, '12, and '13. After that at least one 3rd and one 2nd place finish by 2020. It should be fun.

If we get Manny will hinge or Farrell and what he tells AA about Manny. Farrell knows Manny well. Not worried about the rumours, if Farrell is okay with him. Long as the bucks are right of course and we don't have to surrender our #1 draft. Other than that I am okay with Farrell's decision

Personally, I see a good chance Manny will be in Toronto next year and put up big numbers. The reason I say this is Manny doesn't have to play the field if he comes here and he has hit well at Rogers Center. He also will sell tickets and create a Blue Jay name in the city.

2009mvp
10-30-2010, 01:43 PM
If we actually do get manny what happens to our defensive, does Bautista shift to 3rd, Snider to right, Lind to 1st and fred lewis stays in left? We do upgrade at 3rd, but a pilon is an upgrade from encarnacion. This leaves me a little worried about our defence especially at 1st. We have quite a few guys that rely on groundball outs, so I'm really worried about losing a lot of those outs cause of Lind. What do you guys think?

Manny's only a possibility if Lind moves to first. Otherwise I'd rather bring in a Berkman type to play first for the year until they figure out a longterm solution. Hell even if they are moving Lind to first Berkman would be ideal to spell Lind at first every once in a while and DH otherwise.

town123
10-30-2010, 02:28 PM
I'd say no to Manny, we can't risk any bad blood in the clubhouse while this young club is figuring out pecking order and what not. One request to Rogers for some dough that gets wasted because they have to cut Manny loose, could affect the purse strings in the future. AA won't risk a potential dangerous signing right now.

ah nuts
10-30-2010, 05:02 PM
I'd say no to Manny, we can't risk any bad blood in the clubhouse while this young club is figuring out pecking order and what not. One request to Rogers for some dough that gets wasted because they have to cut Manny loose, could affect the purse strings in the future. AA won't risk a potential dangerous signing right now.

I believe this team has plenty of glue to handle manny for ONE year.

I like to have manny for the right price(how much can he ask for at his age and poor games played the last 2 years??).

If no other additions takes place, sign him. It could add some excitement and buzz as we wait through another rebuilding year.

town123
10-30-2010, 05:53 PM
[QUOTE=ah nuts;15384367]I believe this team has plenty of glue to handle manny for ONE year.

I like to have manny for the right price(how much can he ask for at his age and poor games played the last 2 years??).

If no other additions takes place, sign him. It could add some excitement and buzz as we wait through another rebuilding year.[/QUOT

Instead of A-gon, Fielder, Manny boppers, I'd rather see us get some speed and average into the lineup at positions we need like 3B, OF. We can always add the slower DH & 1B when we need it.

I guess I could agree with you on a one year deal if he isn't blocking anybody, but we don't know about Lind playing 1st or DH yet.

mike_noodles
10-30-2010, 05:53 PM
I hope they don't get him, there is no room for him. Unless you seriously want to move Lind to 1st, but if his defense in the OF is a liability, it probably won't be much better in the infield.

ah nuts
10-30-2010, 08:36 PM
[QUOTE=ah nuts;15384367]I believe this team has plenty of glue to handle manny for ONE year.

I like to have manny for the right price(how much can he ask for at his age and poor games played the last 2 years??).

If no other additions takes place, sign him. It could add some excitement and buzz as we wait through another rebuilding year.[/QUOT

Instead of A-gon, Fielder, Manny boppers, I'd rather see us get some speed and average into the lineup at positions we need like 3B, OF. We can always add the slower DH & 1B when we need it.

I guess I could agree with you on a one year deal if he isn't blocking anybody, but we don't know about Lind playing 1st or DH yet.

Manny to me is more for fun/ fan buzz - as in we might get him hot and surprise. At best, getting a hot DH Manny is, I'm guessing, a 50:50 chance(b/c he loves hitting in TO).

But for beyond 2011, I too grave a more contact/ high OBP guy over more popping balls over the fence.

Shifty1 69
11-01-2010, 08:44 AM
[QUOTE=town123;15384658]

Manny to me is more for fun/ fan buzz - as in we might get him hot and surprise. At best, getting a hot DH Manny is, I'm guessing, a 50:50 chance(b/c he loves hitting in TO).

But for beyond 2011, I too grave a more contact/ high OBP guy over more popping balls over the fence.

Manny has a career .313AVG and .411 OBP. Why not a guy that can do both? ;):D

ah nuts
11-01-2010, 11:36 AM
[QUOTE=ah nuts;15386296]

Manny has a career .313AVG and .411 OBP. Why not a guy that can do both? ;):D

after 2011 season, Manny will be near 40, so I doubt he could do either. Especially after the 2011 season, I'm sure the new team buzz will have worn off.

The_Jet11
11-01-2010, 12:56 PM
There is little doubt that Manny is one of the top Right-handed hitters of this generation, perhaps of all time.

Given his overwhelming sense of self, i get the feeling that if he feels he can't compete at the level he is used to or expects of himself, that he will hang'em up.

That said, we've seen numerous hitters remain productive into their late 30's and early 40's in recent years. Whether you discount the roid factor or not, the likes of Thome, Bonds, Sheffield, Mcgriff, Konerko, etc.

One stat that Manny is likely to continue to put up, regardless of age would be the high OBP. He's always had a terriffic eye at the plate, and who is to say that he can't maintain that aspect, even if his bat doesn't posses the thunder that it once did.

Suppose he does regress considerably and posts a "manny-mediocre" line, say .150 points below his career OPS (.998!!!), while popping out a measly 25HR and 90 RBI
I'd take Manny at a .275/.365/.485 (.850 OPS) every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
That would still put him in the top 15 batters in the AL, for OPS..... right ahead of Arod, Wells, Teixeira, V-Mart, and Vladdy. in 2010

Every one of those players makes Big Time money, so I'd say if you can get Manny for 10-12 million or less on a two year deal. DO IT, before he changes his mind!

LechWalesa
11-01-2010, 04:06 PM
I hope they don't get him, there is no room for him. Unless you seriously want to move Lind to 1st, but if his defense in the OF is a liability, it probably won't be much better in the infield.

In that case why is he on the team at all? Having a 27 year old DH is idiotic.

2009mvp
11-01-2010, 04:11 PM
There is little doubt that Manny is one of the top Right-handed hitters of this generation, perhaps of all time.

Given his overwhelming sense of self, i get the feeling that if he feels he can't compete at the level he is used to or expects of himself, that he will hang'em up.

That said, we've seen numerous hitters remain productive into their late 30's and early 40's in recent years. Whether you discount the roid factor or not, the likes of Thome, Bonds, Sheffield, Mcgriff, Konerko, etc.

One stat that Manny is likely to continue to put up, regardless of age would be the high OBP. He's always had a terriffic eye at the plate, and who is to say that he can't maintain that aspect, even if his bat doesn't posses the thunder that it once did.

Suppose he does regress considerably and posts a "manny-mediocre" line, say .150 points below his career OPS (.998!!!), while popping out a measly 25HR and 90 RBI
I'd take Manny at a .275/.365/.485 (.850 OPS) every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
That would still put him in the top 15 batters in the AL, for OPS..... right ahead of Arod, Wells, Teixeira, V-Mart, and Vladdy. in 2010

Every one of those players makes Big Time money, so I'd say if you can get Manny for 10-12 million or less on a two year deal. DO IT, before he changes his mind!

I disagree, it's gotta be 1 year, or 1 plus a team controlled option year. The moodiness and the attitude problems are very real, and while Manny's still a good hitter he's not a guy you want to guarantee 2 years to at this point.

town123
11-01-2010, 05:55 PM
I guess if he only DH's..... there's no need for a Fenway OF door to sneak a pee behind