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Cooper
10-20-2010, 02:41 PM
KANSAS CITY -- Get ready for a glut of Zack Greinke trade rumors.

The Royals are sure to get several offers for their 2009 American League Cy Young Award winner as the trading season heats up this fall and winter.

"I'm sure it'll be interesting," said Royals general manager Dayton Moore.

Moore is certainly no fan of the rumors that heat up the Hot Stove League season each year, but he knows that the Royals' willingness to entertain offers for their star pitcher piles wood on the fire.

Moore's approach has consistently been that the Royals always listen to any and all offers but, in reality, a year ago he wasn't about to deal the prize-winning Greinke. Not after such a spectacular season.

"There's no difference in any of our strategy with any of our players," Moore insisted. "We'll continue to be open-minded with any player. Certainly, it might be more of a story because of what was written about Zack's personal feelings about things. How true that is, I don't know."

Last summer, a Kansas City Star story about how Greinke was losing patience with the Royals' rebuilding programs and inability to compete caused a considerable stir around town.

Before the season ended, Greinke was asked by MLB.com if his future would be with Kansas City.

"That's up to the organization, how they're going to go about it. None of this other stuff is anything, it's just what the organization does," Greinke said. "But my only motivation now is winning. I have no motivation to do any other stuff. When we're 20 games out, it's hard to get excited to come to the park."

He's under contract through 2012, set to earn $13.5 million in each of the next two seasons.

Moore acknowledged that if Greinke is not signed to an extension beyond 2012 and could become a free agent, it might be prudent to trade him. But would that time be this winter, or by next July's Trade Deadline, or in the winter of 2011?

"It's hard to say. You just don't know," Moore said. "I don't what, or if, would be the right offer. You guys are asking me to predict the future. I just don't know."

Greinke's record slipped from 16-8 to 10-14 and his ERA jumped from 2.16 to 4.17. But he's one of the prime pitchers in the game.

"We have Zack Greinke under contract until 2012 and he's very important to our baseball team, and every time he pitches, he gives us a great opportunity to win the game," Moore said. "As I've said before, Zack because of his ability to pitch and compete, covers up a lot of holes on our baseball team, and gives us a chance to win almost every time he pitches. So, if we ever decide to trade a player of that caliber, it's important that you get the proper value in return. What that is, I don't know."

The interest in Greinke is certain to be intensified by a dearth of attractive starting pitchers in this year's free-agent crop, which falls off sharply after Rangers postseason star Cliff Lee.

"I think any time a player is someone as interesting as Zack Greinke, they're willing to make a strong proposal," Moore said. "I think it's just a matter if the timing of acquiring him fits within their payroll structure and with their approach for the upcoming season."

Not only would Greinke's $13.5 million salary balloon a club's payroll, but the acquiring team almost certainly would have to surrender a bundle of top prospects who would fit in with the Royals' current crop of young players.

The Royals also will not forget that, though 33 starts last season, Greinke was their only starting pitcher who delivered consistently good performances.

Greinke won't be the only top Royals player churning in the rumor mill. Outfielder David DeJesus, a prime topic last July before he suffered a season-ending thumb injury, is also likely to merit considerable interest.

"It's quite possible, but it's just a matter of getting the right match," Moore said.

Dick Kaegel is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

JRisdabest
10-20-2010, 08:07 PM
loney & 2 prospects

Cooper
10-21-2010, 02:11 AM
Hmmm....let's see...where is that rolling on the floor, laughing hysterically smiley?

kanersen
10-22-2010, 06:37 PM
marcum, stewart, jpa

Mandrew
10-25-2010, 02:16 PM
The Royals will only trade Greinke if they get a great deal, not a good deal. This dude is as cheap as they come, sells tickets, won a Cy Young, is almost everyone's favorite player, and the pride of the Royals. No way Marcum, Stewart, and JPA or Loney and 2 prospects get it done unless those two prospects are top 50 prospects.

Are you guys serious?

fightwookies
10-26-2010, 03:47 AM
for starters, the Royals would have absolutely no interest whatsoever in James Loney. Butler and Ka'aihue are both better cheaper players, and Hosmer is likely to be a september call up next season. If dodger's fans want to start the bidding with Matt Kemp, then the royals will at least pick up the phone. other than that, it is at least 3 prospects worthy of cracking the royal's top 10.

Cooper
10-26-2010, 01:57 PM
I agree. Zack wont come cheap....

kanersen
10-26-2010, 08:12 PM
marcum is the ace of a very young toronto staff, and has put up good numbers in the AL East against lineup powerhouses

JPA and Stewart are both top 100 prospects
it's a respectable offer
hell marcum's stat's alone were arguably better then grienke's last year, and he had pitch against better lineups more often then Grienke did. Not saying Marcum is a better pitcher, he was just better last year, and he is a really good pitcher.

Cooper
10-26-2010, 08:49 PM
Toronto led the league in homeruns, too. The Royals were one of the worst teams in run production this year. Greinke lost one game, 1-0...a complete game 4 hitter with 11 strikeouts. :sigh:

kanersen
10-27-2010, 07:42 PM
umm....wins and losses just might be one of the best stats to base a pitcher on....that's not what i'm referring too...

Madness23
11-11-2010, 02:53 PM
whats a fair trade according to you guys ?

OneTuzSea
11-11-2010, 03:25 PM
umm....wins and losses just might be one of the best stats to base a pitcher on....that's not what i'm referring too...

:laugh:


I hope that was sarcasm.

jon32
11-11-2010, 06:19 PM
To kansas : Marcum, Hill, McGuire

To Toronto : Grienke

treeleaf
11-12-2010, 05:12 AM
Marcum, JPA, McGuire
If you guys want Hill then I pass instantly
And lets not think about bringing up Drabek

Madness23
11-12-2010, 01:33 PM
me being the GM of the Jays, i would laugh till death if thats what moore is asking knowing that in 2 years zack WILL definetly go for nothing !!! hell whats the difference btw marcum and grienke ?? check the stats people, Marcum is a legit AL East pitcher and a career 3.4 Era !! actually Zack is the unknown here !! so a fair trade is : our ace, player of the year in the AAA and our top pick !!!!!
lets get real here guys

Shifty1 69
11-12-2010, 01:42 PM
The Royals will only trade Greinke if they get a great deal, not a good deal. This dude is as cheap as they come, sells tickets, won a Cy Young, is almost everyone's favorite player, and the pride of the Royals. No way Marcum, Stewart, and JPA or Loney and 2 prospects get it done unless those two prospects are top 50 prospects.

Are you guys serious?

lol, $13.5 million per for 2 more seasons then a need to resign him.... "cheap as they come"?? haha

Are you serious??:facepalm:

Lest we forget that he is coming off of a season in which he put up a spectacular 4.17ERA, struck out 7.4/9ip, a BAA of .260 and a WHIP of 1.25....

Marcum put up better #'s than him across the board last year, is only a year older and is still under team control (with a lost year of service for TJ surgery which he showed last year to be behind him).... years away from making $10+mil a year.

Are Stewart (who is the Jays #2 pitching prospect behind Drabek) and JPA - the reigning AAA player of the year, who plays (at least for now) a premium position at C, enough secondary pieces... maybe, maybe not... but to write it off as laughable is crazy IMO.

Please recognize that Grienke has had one GREAT season (2009), one decent/good season (2008) and a bunch of mediocre (at best) to poor seasons.... and a history of anxiety issues that may well be behind him, but dont kid yourself if a car accident that was repaired to look like new by Maaco doesnt still affect the resale value.

Its the expectations of raping a teams system that will ultimately result in Grienke not being traded anytime before the deadline prior this his hitting FA (cause I would be SHOCKED if he even entertained the idea of coming back to KC given the quotes last year...)

I am a Jays fan, and I would like to see Grienke on my team, the guy has excellent stuff and has the potential to be excellent... but from my personal perspective I would hope the Jays would pass if the Royals are expecting all of the Jays 2-3 best prospects/MLB ready youngins (ie. Drabek, Snider, Cecil, Stewart, etc etc).... Not to mention the Jays already have potentially one of the best staffs in all of baseball already.

I am not trying to be a dick or bait anyone in your own forum, but I am curious as to why (other than the one excellent season) he should command the incredible package people seem to want for him. Only reason I can think of is the complete lack of available SP talent in FA/trades.

ColeWorld
11-13-2010, 07:55 PM
id be shocked

zdennis24
11-15-2010, 06:18 PM
Texas sends Holland, Jurickson Profar, and two other prospects for Greinke

texas star
11-16-2010, 12:37 PM
Yanks are in and Hughes name is out there....I think that would be a smart move for both teams....

gfixer33
11-19-2010, 09:24 PM
Greinke for luke scott,chris tilman,brandon snyder,matt albers

D'BACKS FAN
12-01-2010, 06:14 PM
Someone from our forum came up with a great 3 team trade:

AZ get: Hughes, Chamberlain, Hovechar and Gordon

Yanks get: Zack Greinke

KC get: Justin Upton, and 2 prospects (1 from Yanks, 1 from AZ)

I'm just curious to know what KC fans thinks of this trade?

gfixer33
12-01-2010, 07:11 PM
Greinke couldn't handle ny

TheHughesUnit
12-02-2010, 10:30 AM
Someone from our forum came up with a great 3 team trade:

AZ get: Hughes, Chamberlain, Hovechar and Gordon

Yanks get: Zack Greinke

KC get: Justin Upton, and 2 prospects (1 from Yanks, 1 from AZ)

I'm just curious to know what KC fans thinks of this trade?

Not a royals fan, but No.

Saltyfan
12-04-2010, 09:29 PM
Well the braves have 3 top pitching prospects in Teheran, Vizcaino, and Delgado. All could be the center piece for anybody. Add in a couple mid teir prospects and you would be lucky to get better. Prospect wise that is

Tone091
12-06-2010, 01:19 PM
I think the O's will inquire, and your offer below looks ok, but I think they want to hold onto Snyder. I can see them offering Tillman, Britton, Pie and Scott. Win-Win for both clubs.


Greinke for luke scott,chris tilman,brandon snyder,matt albers

stipe1280
12-06-2010, 04:01 PM
If I were Texas' GM I'd be willing to part with: Scheppers/Perez, Hunter/Holland, Borbon and Profar.

Karlos49
12-06-2010, 10:17 PM
I'm a KC fan...don't want to see Greinke go, but it seems inevitable. I could quite honestly see Greinke being moved to a team in the AL Central. Possibly Minnesooooota or Detroit in particular. Both teams have the talent in their systems to throw at KC to lure this dude to their team. Wouldn't mind. Greinke is an ace but he's not unhittable.

jaysfan55
12-07-2010, 12:16 AM
As a Jays fan I say this is what we give you (KC)

To Royals:

Travis Snider OF (KC rumored to want badly)
Zach Stewart SP
Deck McGuire SP (2010 1st rounder)

Jays get:

Zach Grienke and we eat all his salary

Karlos49
12-07-2010, 12:57 AM
As a Jays fan I say this is what we give you (KC)

To Royals:

Travis Snider OF (KC rumored to want badly)
Zach Stewart SP
Deck McGuire SP (2010 1st rounder)

Jays get:

Zach Grienke and we eat all his salary

I'd take this trade if I were Dayton Moore

nessythegreat
12-07-2010, 04:03 AM
Jason Kubel, Kyle Gibson, and Aaron Hicks for Grienke
or
Kyle Gibson, Aaron Hicks, Ben Revere, player to be named

Karlos49
12-07-2010, 10:40 AM
Don't think Greinke deal happens until Lee finds a team

cooters22
12-07-2010, 07:52 PM
Do you guys hear the Milwaukee Brewers name tossed around at all for Greinke? I hear a little on our end, but that may be more wishful thinking than anything.

dj_jewlz
12-09-2010, 11:08 PM
Dodgers get Fielder
Brewers get Greinke and Loney
Royals get Trayvon Robinson OF, Scott Elbert, and two Pitching prospects from the Brewers (they are deep in pitching in the minors)

Pakfan4Life
12-13-2010, 05:40 PM
Not a Royals fan, but for the future of the Royals trading Grienke to the Jays for Snider plus would be a good move. Pairing Snider with Hosmer, Colon, and Moustakas would be sick! Plus try to maybe trade Sorio for a catcher like Montero and your core would be set.

trevhipp7
12-13-2010, 06:13 PM
Im a Twins fan, but I follow all of baseball and their prospects. The Royals do need a catcher cuz Wil Myers is gonna move to RF eventually, but I think with all of their offensive prospects, they may look for a defensive catcher with some offensive upside. Hows a trade like this sound?

Royals get: Logan Morrison (FLA), Chad James(FLA), Mike Napoli(LAA), Jeremy Jeffress(MIL)

Brewers get: Ricky Nolasco(FLA)

Marlins get: Zach Grienke(KC)

Angels get: Mat Gamel(MIL)


As a Twins fan, Id offer:
Aaron Hicks, Alex Wimmers, Jason Kubel, Liam Hendricks

trevhipp7
12-13-2010, 06:16 PM
Dodgers get Fielder
Brewers get Greinke and Loney
Royals get Trayvon Robinson OF, Scott Elbert, and two Pitching prospects from the Brewers (they are deep in pitching in the minors)

The Royals would demand Dee Gordon in this deal for sure. They asked for Snider and Drabek from Toronto, no way they settle for Robinson and Elbert.

fightwookies
12-14-2010, 02:51 AM
Not a Royals fan, but for the future of the Royals trading Grienke to the Jays for Snider plus would be a good move. Pairing Snider with Hosmer, Colon, and Moustakas would be sick! Plus try to maybe trade Sorio for a catcher like Montero and your core would be set.

Will Myers is often ranked higher as a prospect than Montero. If Montero were part of a trade, he would be moved to the outfield where he loses a lot of value.



Lee going to the Phillies was probably the best thing that could have happened for the Royals. Greinke is now the best pitcher on the market, with all of the interested teams getting ready to line up their best prospects.

It's going to take a minimum of 3 top 100 prospects to move him. Basically, a teams top 3 prospects. If they don't get what they want, they are not giving away an Ace. Greinke is an Ace. His individual pitching specific stats slipped some, but not as dramatic as many believe. He was a victim of awful defense behind him. Butler is a butcher at first base who proved time and time again how incapable he is of turning a routine 3-6-3 double play. Yuniesky Betancourt may be the worst player in the history of baseball (I am not alone in making that claim http://www.thedailydugout.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=825:mlbs-worst-defensive-players-of-2010&catid=36:the-diamond&Itemid=55). Gordon struggled terribly at third again and got to learn a new OF position. Greinke's number's (W/L and ERA) may not reflect it, but he had another very good individual season.

As much as I would like to add Snider from the Jays, the Royals would be better off adding up the middle players. Most of their prospects play on the corners, and they have some guys who could end up there (Myers/Gordon). They could really use some help in the SS/2B/CF type players. Preferably some guys who could arrive at the same time as (or before) Hosmer/Moustakas/Myers/Colon/Montgomery/Duffy/Lamb/Crow.

TriplePlay
12-14-2010, 03:04 AM
Today is not a good day to be in the NL East if you're a Braves fan. I would love for Wren to acquire Grienke...Yes, I know there is 0 percent chance of that happening. But at least Wren would be sending a message to the fans, that he doesn't intend to let the Phillies have the upper hand....

ScottyFresh11
12-14-2010, 03:53 PM
Just curious to get a Royals perspective on Greinke and what the Royals would want in return.

It seems that you have catcher, first, second, third, and the corner outfield spots covered for the future.


So would that mean that you guys are looking for a Shortstop, Centerfielder, and/or pitching in a trade for Greinke?

trevhipp7
12-14-2010, 04:54 PM
Ya tha would prolly be ideal, but Myers is likely to move to RF so catcher could be a need as well.

Karlos49
12-14-2010, 08:44 PM
Dayton Moore has made it clear that he wants major league ready talent in return for shipping out Greinke. The last couple days there have been rumors that KC might not move Greike this offseason even...but they want prospects to bolster up the middle(Catcher, Pitcher, SS/2B, CF) and has been asking for a Right Handed pitching prospects.

trevhipp7
12-14-2010, 09:33 PM
I think somethin like this would be reasonable

Jays:
JP Arencibia C
Anthony Gose CF
PTBNL(Deck McGuire RHP)
Travis Snider LF

Yankees:
Jesus Montero C
Brett Gardner CF
Dellin Betances RHP
Eduardo Nunez SS

Angels:
Hank Conger C
Jordan Walden RHP
Peter Bourjos CF
Alexia Amarista 2B

Rangers:
Taylor Teagarden C
Tanner Scheppers RHP
Derek Holland LHP
Jurickson Profar SS

Mariners:
Michael Pineda RHP
Nick Franklin SS
Adam Moore C
Michael Saunders LF

Nats:
Jordan Zimmermann RHP
Derek Norris C
Danny Espinosa SS
Eury Perez CF

Braves:
Julio Teheran RHP
Matt Lipka SS
Brandon Beachy RHP
Christian Bethancourt C

Mets:
Jenrry Mejia RHP
Ruben Tejada 2B
Josh Thole C
Cesar Puello CF

Cubs:
Brett Jackson CF
Hak-Ju Lee SS
Chris Carpenter RHP
Chris Archer RHP

fightwookies
12-15-2010, 05:41 AM
I think somethin like this would be reasonable

Jays:
JP Arencibia C
Anthony Gose CF
PTBNL(Deck McGuire RHP)
Travis Snider LF

Yankees:
Jesus Montero C
Brett Gardner CF
Dellin Betances RHP
Eduardo Nunez SS

Angels:
Hank Conger C
Jordan Walden RHP
Peter Bourjos CF
Alexia Amarista 2B

Rangers:
Taylor Teagarden C
Tanner Scheppers RHP
Derek Holland LHP
Jurickson Profar SS

Mariners:
Michael Pineda RHP
Nick Franklin SS
Adam Moore C
Michael Saunders LF

Nats:
Jordan Zimmermann RHP
Derek Norris C
Danny Espinosa SS
Eury Perez CF

Braves:
Julio Teheran RHP
Matt Lipka SS
Brandon Beachy RHP
Christian Bethancourt C

Mets:
Jenrry Mejia RHP
Ruben Tejada 2B
Josh Thole C
Cesar Puello CF

Cubs:
Brett Jackson CF
Hak-Ju Lee SS
Chris Carpenter RHP
Chris Archer RHP

Jays - not enough. The Royals are said to like Snider more than I do though. Arencibia is a good prospect, but not great. He would be a marginal top 10 prospect in the Royals system.

Yankees - not enough. I like Montero. Gardner is an average to below average player. Betances is probably headed for the bullpen, ie not the starting right handed pitcher they are looking for.

Angels - I just don't see many of the type of pieces the Royals are looking for

Rangers - if Profar was 21 instead of 17 (meaning he would come up at the same time as the rest of the Royals prospects) then they would have a deal.

Mariners - Ackley.

Nats - intriguing. They all have batting average issues, but Zimmerman may be enough

Braves - love Teheran. DMGM loves Braves prospects more than other teams prospects.

Mets - don't have enough in their system. Not a fan. I don't know if Fernando Martinez would be enough to sweeten your potential deal or not.

Cubs - throwing arguably four of the Cubs top 5 prospects. I doubt they would make that offer, and I don't know if it would be enough. They may all develop into solid major leaguers, but the Royals are looking for potential difference makers. Not an unfair trade or to say the Royals wouldn't be getting value, just not the definitive win they are looking for.

500 Level
12-15-2010, 12:58 PM
Jays - not enough. The Royals are said to like Snider more than I do though. Arencibia is a good prospect, but not great. He would be a marginal top 10 prospect in the Royals system.

Yankees - not enough. I like Montero. Gardner is an average to below average player. Betances is probably headed for the bullpen, ie not the starting right handed pitcher they are looking for.

Angels - I just don't see many of the type of pieces the Royals are looking for

Rangers - if Profar was 21 instead of 17 (meaning he would come up at the same time as the rest of the Royals prospects) then they would have a deal.

Mariners - Ackley.

Nats - intriguing. They all have batting average issues, but Zimmerman may be enough

Braves - love Teheran. DMGM loves Braves prospects more than other teams prospects.

Mets - don't have enough in their system. Not a fan. I don't know if Fernando Martinez would be enough to sweeten your potential deal or not.

Cubs - throwing arguably four of the Cubs top 5 prospects. I doubt they would make that offer, and I don't know if it would be enough. They may all develop into solid major leaguers, but the Royals are looking for potential difference makers. Not an unfair trade or to say the Royals wouldn't be getting value, just not the definitive win they are looking for.

Wow, if none of those deals work for you, than I'd be prepared to hold onto Grienke till he leaves in 2 years.

I'm not entirely sure you know much about your own team either because you said the Angels don't have pieces the Royals are looking for, meanwhile they have all four things the Royals are reportedly looking for lol.

trevhipp7
12-15-2010, 05:24 PM
The Rangers deal would prolly be perfect. Moore said he was lookin for a haul similar to that of the one Tex got. 2 MLB ready, and 2 high ceiling prospects. Holland is a stud, allbeit left handed pitcher. Teagarden has a lot of power at catcher and hit better down the stretch and isnt far removed fomr being an elite prospect. Profar would be like Andrus in the Tex deal, he is 3 or 4 years aay, but has the most potential. Scheppers could help this year or in a year, but he has electric stuff that could help out of the pen or in the rotation.

DiPasquale7
12-16-2010, 12:34 PM
Jays - not enough. The Royals are said to like Snider more than I do though. Arencibia is a good prospect, but not great. He would be a marginal top 10 prospect in the Royals system.


As a Jays fan, there is no chance I'd ever make this deal. Snider was ranked #6 prospect in the MLB by baseball America in 2009. Deck is ranked #2 and Gose is currently ranked #3 in the Jays system. And Arencebia was the AAA player of the year last year in the PCL. All 3 prospects not named Snider are top 100 prospects in baseball. It's funny that the Jays would ever consider anything like that and you say it's not enough?!?! That too funny...

That's fine that you wouldn't want it because I'd never offer it. (Maybe AA would but I think that's asking for way too much)

p_phelps
12-17-2010, 04:32 PM
The Rangers deal would prolly be perfect. Moore said he was lookin for a haul similar to that of the one Tex got. 2 MLB ready, and 2 high ceiling prospects. Holland is a stud, allbeit left handed pitcher. Teagarden has a lot of power at catcher and hit better down the stretch and isnt far removed fomr being an elite prospect. Profar would be like Andrus in the Tex deal, he is 3 or 4 years aay, but has the most potential. Scheppers could help this year or in a year, but he has electric stuff that could help out of the pen or in the rotation.

so yal are tellin me that is all it would take for texas to get greinke? Holland would be hard to swallow but the rest ..i would do it yesterday.. what im trying to say is they are askin way more than that from texas.. 1st teagrden is horrible in every aspect of the game.. his was sopose to be an elite defense catcher umm not quite and his bat ...he had 1 hit the 1st 3 months last year then got sent to the minors where he continued to suck..trust me yall wount not even ask for teagarden..
this is what a propsal i think would be fair for both.. Profar(stud shortstop that has power already at 17 and very mature be mlb ready in 2-3 yrs), Beltre(stud center feild prospect 1-2 yrs away) Holland/kirkman/hunter(yals pick out of the 3, and sheppards(Stud pitcher ready now)..Sry but martin perez is not avalible..for greinke and a reliever? what do yal think?

TrueHaloFan
12-17-2010, 05:03 PM
What Angel Prospects would you guys realistically want for Greinke?

DWills
12-18-2010, 01:09 AM
ricky nolasco, logan morrison, osvaldo martinez, chad james and leo nunez to the royals

soria and greinke to the marlins


done


thanks for shopping

MAINE YANKEE
12-18-2010, 10:18 AM
Grenkie to the Yankees for;
a. Jesus Montareo
b. Joba Chamberlain
c. Andrew Brackman
d. David Adams

trevhipp7
12-18-2010, 11:49 AM
What Angel Prospects would you guys realistically want for Greinke?

Just my opinion, It would need to involve Conger, Walden, Wood, and 2 high cieling A ballers for Grienke and a reliever or somethin

MAINE YANKEE
12-18-2010, 12:29 PM
trade Greinke to the Yankees for

a Jesus Montero
b Joba Chamberlain
c Andrew Brackman
d David Adams

Royals get some pitching back and a needed catcher as well as an infielder they have asked for.:clap:

trevhipp7
12-18-2010, 12:52 PM
Hicks, Wimmers, Slowey, Kepler?

PDCballa
12-19-2010, 01:24 PM
How about a trade to the Brewers?:)

CMIII
12-19-2010, 08:49 PM
Brewers fan. just filling in on what you got back.
Jeffrees: Upper 90's fastball, hard curve, and developing change
Odorizzi: Threw 8 inning no hitter in low A. Our best Prospect.
Escobar: Great Defense. Good speed, no power.
Cain: Good power, speed, defense.