PDA

View Full Version : 2011 Blue Jays Trade Idea thread



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

Twitchy
10-17-2010, 10:26 AM
The other thread was too big so I'm just gonna make a new one. Here's the last couple of posts from the old thread so we can continue the discussion:


No typo, he is 32. Using Olney's estimate, Lee's due at least a 5 year contract, meaning the contract would take him from 33 through age 37. That's all I meant.




For one year of Fielder? No. But that's because I don't think there's a chance in hell he'd come here and sign an extension rather than simply waiting till next winter and being given the possibility of more money and the guarantee of signing in a city of his choice.




Internal growth where? Yeah Snider looks ready to bust out, but that's it. Hech's still a year or two from making an impact. JPA's ceiling is a lot lower than people seem to think it is. Offensively that's it. Lots of promising young arms, not so many promising young bats.





Nope.



Bautista overachieved is an understatement. Buck had a career year. Gonzalez was on pace for a career year in ~350 AB's. Wells had his best season in 4 years. All that and the Jays were still 50 runs shy of the Rays, who trailed the Yanks and Sox in terms of runs scored.



How do you know what the Cards want? Everything I've read says they have no intention of moving him.




I meant defensively. I have no idea what Wallace has to do with this discussion either.



Fielding a 90 win 3rd place club for the next 3 years with nothing left on the farm (especially the upper levels) doesn't excite me...



Me? No. Rogers' shareholders wondering why the hell they're sinking even more money into something that isn't turning a profit? Yes. Ahh, the pitfalls of corporate ownership, and the primary reason why anyone who believes this 'unlimited payroll' nonsense needs a serious reality check.



MONEY. That's how. It's very simple. They spend in the draft, they spend in free agency, they spend to keep their own players. Going back to my last point, the Jays don't have that kind of money, and if we're gonna keep pretending they are then this discussion is going nowhere.


I was reading that Brewer fans think he won't get what he's looking for because they think teams consider him basically a DH with health/weight issues.

Trading for an agreed extension is worth a shot depending on if Fielder/Jays can come to terms is all I'm saying. I'm not going to assume he won't though. At 26 he's definitely a player I would target to fill 1B/Cleanup hitter.



Romero/Cecil/Morrow/Snider/Hill/Lind/Escobar

Internal growth wasn't directed at just the young improving players but players like Lind & Hill who had down seasons, Escobar in transition. I think Hill/Lind/Escobar improving would have a greater impact than Bautista regressing.

Bautista might never hit 50 again but his BA was average at best. He could sooner end up hitting for a better average & roughly 30 HR's. Problem is how many of those HR's were solo shot's?. If Hill/Lind/Escobar increase their OB% if Batista hit's less HR's but with runners on = leveled out run production

Bautista hitting 50 HR's with a weak average is as good as Hill batting under 200 for 3/4 season, is bad.



Wells led the team with an average of 270, none were on base though the team led the league in HR's. I think the teams average was on the down side of it's potential.

More base runners, more runs. How many of Bautista's HR's were solo shots?. How many in fact of the total HR's hit were solo shots?.

I say Jays average stands a better chance of improving than them losing power.



I don't, that's why I put a question mark.



Was he not considered the future 1B for this team until Gose became available?

If they can consider Wallace the future at 1st they would have to be insane to not like Fielder who's 26 & on a down season hit 30+ HR's & 80+ RBI's

Wallaces defence is not better than Fielders & neither is his offence. The only benefit Wallace had over Fielder is contract $. This backs up the Gose trade.



Rays are about to lose some key players & Boston needs to retool. I see an opening for the Jays to take the wild card spot maybe better if things click.



^ I would not question this because I don't know better, I take what you've said & understand the train of thought. (Pessimistic) & I would be too if it were me spending that kind of money.



The problem is I took unlimited to mean unlimited. You know better, I don't.


^^^The "unlimited" payroll was an interpretation by a poster who assumed that just because the Jays don't have a set budget that the sky is the limit for salaries.


I feel like we're just gonna go in circles if we continue with all that, but this part got me:



Why? I don't think it's at all far-fetched to say that the Sox were one of the top 5 teams in baseball this year (I'd have them 4th). That's a team that sustained a ridiculous list of injuries to key players (Pedroia, Youkilis, Beckett, V-Mart, Drew, Cameron) yet still managed to win 89 games and score the second most runs in the AL (63 more than the Jays). They've got three players better than anyone currently on the Jays roster in Lester, Youkilis and Pedroia. They've got ~150M to spend. They've got the farm system and the money to realistically nab an Adrian Gonzalez. Not that there aren't holes there, but that team is in far better shape to win right now than the Jays are.

The Rays have Des Jennings ready to step in for Crawford, Dan Johnson probably takes over at first, Jeremy Hellickson finally finds a way into the rotation. I don't deny that they're losing some talent there, but we're not talking about a team that's gonna turn into the Orioles. They've gone from one of the top 3 teams in baseball to simply a very, very good team. Assuming the Jays are just gonna leapfrog them is just crazy IMO.

Point is, it's an uphill climb, and patching holes here and there without having the right core in place is a good way to stick the team in an 88-90 win 3rd/4th place rut for the next 3 years.


:clap:

I think we need to see the real Hill, the real Lind, the real Bautista, the real Romero, Snider, Cecil et al and know what types of players we have long term. Give it a little more time and see if our young players can be consistent performers. There are too many "ifs" right now for the addition of one or two marquee players to put us over the top.

If we go out and get Lee and Crawford for example, what happens if Hill and Lind don't rebound, if Jose in 2010 was an aberation and he reverts back to his career norms, if Romero and Cecil win only 6 games each...etc...etc. Then we have two mega contracts (and the one we already have) on a team that is going nowhere because we only got 3 or 4 good players/pitchers. If we had signed say Figgins and Lackey last year, for example as many here were suggesting, would we have been a better team in 2010? Certainly no one expected Hill and Lind to suck so bad this year (add in that Figgins and Lackey both had off years as well).

I know thats a lot of "ifs" in a negative direction but I think there are still too many question marks to consider that adding 2 or 3 players will be sufficient for us to make the playoffs. I would prefer not going crazy with the big name FAs, look for some good value FAs similar to last years approach. Give the youth another year to see how they develop and improve. Wait until the deadline approaches next year and guage where we are as a team at that time.

At the deadline, if we are in a legitimate position to make a serious run, they we do have the assests to pull the trigger on a big deadline deal or two. Then we would be in a postion of just needing one or two impact players to make the playoffs.

If not, then we would have a better picture of where the team stands, how our young players have performed, which players can be counted on to continue to develop and become one of the "core" and which ones aren't consistent/good enough.

The list of FAs in 2012 (barring options, trades, resigning etc) could include such names as;

(from Cotts (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/04/potential-free-agents-for-2012.html))

1B: Prince Fielder, Albert Pujols, Adrian Gonzalez
2B: Kelly Johnson, Dan Uggla
3B: Aramis Ramirez,
OF: Carlos Beltran, J.D. Drew, Carlos Guillen, Bobby Abreu, Raul Ibanez, Grady Sizemore
SP: Mark Buehrle, Roy Oswalt, C.J. Wilson
RP: Heath Bell, Jonathan Broxton, Francisco Cordero, Bobby Jenks, Jonathan Papelbon

Some of these players may even be available as deadline deals in 2011. It's not like if we don't sign someone now there wont be any left next year.

I don't think we need to be so anxious to make a splashy, big money Free Agent signing. The team is young and headed in the right direction but not ready to be a "contender" just yet.

It we are rebuilding lets do it right. Lets get a solid, dependable foundation built before we go adding on trophy rooms.


So the Jays who have pitching depth & a payroll of 70mil don't have the farm or money to realistically get Fielder? I agree they don't have the farm to get Gonzalez considering Padres want more than just pitching in return.

But

The Redsox with a payroll of 160mil with the need to extend Ellsbury & Clahholz in 2010, have the money?.

Might aswell tell me the Jays are cheap unless they are sure they can contend.

I see Fielder as a building block & a step in the right direction whether they compete next year or not. He gives consistent power/production to an inconsistant offence while filling a hole at 1st base.



I don't think they will leap frog as currently built but with the right additions. (Darvish, Fielder, Soriano) why is it so crazy to think they could?.

Jays lost alot of games early in season because of their closing spot that would have placed them alot closer to the top of the division. I believe it was about 10 early games where the closer role of Frasier/Downs/Gregg completely lapsed.



^ I don't understand this, wouldn't a 26 yo Fielder signed for 8ys & 24 yo potential ace Darvish for 5 be considered core pieces? or are core pieces only drafted?.

Is the fact the team had to open their wallet to make those acquistions play a factor in calling them patchwork & not potential building blocks?.

The only player that should fit the description of patchwork is Lee.

Target Lee if the team is closer to contention
Target Darvish if not.
Target Fielder either way @26 future solution for 1st/cleanup


I have no problem waiting for free agency if Fielder will be available, I just think he should be a team target. Redsox may get Gonzalez 180mil, Yanks have Texiera 180mil. Jays should/need to keep pace with Fielder who 2ys younger than Gonzalez.



Here's the problem, I think the foundation is solid. Outside of C/3B/1B/Closer & possible future CF to replace Wells. Jays have alot of catching prospects & Arencibia in the wings, Bautista can be moved to 3rd if need be, Fielder would more than fill the hole at 1st & Gose is a possible future replacement for Wells, leaving only the closer role to be filled.

I consider Fielder apart of the foundation & not just a big money signing.

Jays have a hole at first & struggle with consistency on offence.

@ 26 Fielder gives a proven/consistent power bat in the middle of the lineup while filling a hole at first. Front load the contract that the team would have better flexibility later when Wells contract comes off the books. 200mil Front loaded (45/42/35/24/15/15/12/12).

If the team isn't ready in 3 years you will have fielder's Bat with his salary declining to replace Wells in the middle of the batting order.


The thing is about Fielder is that I have no idea what his value is.

We could get him for less if he didn't sign an extension before the trade... but we then risk losing him in FA.

If he does a S&T, then what would Mil want in return??
Marcum/Stewart+JPA+Jenkins? Would that be nearly enough? Or would it be a must to include a Snider/Drabek?


Brewers offered fielder 100mil/5ys he wants 200mil/8ys the Brewers can't afford Fielder as he's about the money.

Brewers know they are going to lose fielder to free agency. They want a potential #2 SP for him. I think Marcum + Prospect/s should get a trade done. I also think Fielder's asking price reduces his trade value.



Brewers want pitching for fielder, potential #2 SP.



Your asking the wrong person I not firmilier with baseball, I'm a basketball fan that likes the offseason of sports.

Mauer's contract 184/8
Fielders offensive value is on par with Mauers
Mauer plays the more premium position
Mauer took less to remain a twin.

Texiera's contract is 180/8
Plays the same position as fielder
I think Fielder is the better hitter & has a better OB%

Brewer fans think teams are weary of his weight & future performance that it would affect his value

Fielder is asking for 200mil/8ys with Boras as his agent.




I don't know baseball but I enjoy the offseason aspect of sports. Most of what I've posted has come from reading material so take it for what it's worth.


Tex got 180M because the Yanks/Red Sox got in a bidding war. Take the Yanks out of the equation and there isn't a chance Fielder breaks 160M. Plus because of his lack of athleticism he's bound to break down at a younger age, so teams won't give him as many years or dollars as Tex. 140/6 would be a best case scenario for Fielder.

He can ask for 200M/8 years but that doesn't mean he's going to get it.

B2B
10-19-2010, 10:25 AM
(Hill + Stewart + prospect) for (Lohse + Rasmus)

Fill 2nd base with a temporary solution like MacDonald. Then when Herchavera is ready move Escobar to 2nd.

After trading for Rasmus, Wells to RF & Bautista to 3B

(Marcum extended this winter + Jenkins + Prospect) for (Fielder agreed to an extension)

LF Snider | CF Rasmus | RF Wells

3B Bautista | SS Herchavera | 2B Escobar | 1B Fielder

C Molina | Arencibia | Perez

DH Lind

Starting Rotation (Morrow/Romero/Lohse/Cecil/Drabek)

Batting Rotation

CF- Rasmus
2B- Escobar
3B- Bautista
1B- Fielder
RF- Wells
DH- Lind
LF- Snider
C- Molina/Arencibia
SS- Herchavera

T.O. Fan
10-19-2010, 12:26 PM
The more I think about it the more it makes sense for the Jays to just continue to stockpile young cheap assets/build depth in their organization.

You can only do so many 2 for 1, 3 for 1 type trades. You can't afford to lose that much depth. It handcuffs you for future trades and leaves you without backup in case of injuries.

I'm fine with acquiring a guy like Rasmus, but for guys like Fielder I would rather wait until he's a FA (after next season) if the team is interested in him.

T.O. Fan
10-19-2010, 01:33 PM
The Braves have released Melky Cabrera.

http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/10/braves_release_melky_cabrera.html

I wouldn't mind the Jays signing him as their fourth outfielder. He would definitely be a better option than Wise, Reed, etc.

bartron_44
10-19-2010, 01:53 PM
^^ screw M Cabrera, I would rather save the $ and give that spot to D. Mastroianni (The 4th outfielder spot that is).

T.O. Fan
10-19-2010, 01:57 PM
^^^I'm fine with that as long as it's understood that he's likely to be a 4th outfielder for most of his career. Otherwise, you'd rather him playing everyday in AAA.

2009mvp
10-19-2010, 02:24 PM
Mastroianni's an interesting name. Obviously don't expect him to be a star or anything, but it's not inconceivable that he turns out to be a Brett Gardner type offensively, which could be pretty darn valuable if he proves he can play at least an average CF.

Madtown22
10-19-2010, 02:40 PM
Chances that Bautista has a monster yr next yr or do they try to trade high?

T.O. Fan
10-19-2010, 09:27 PM
Interesting read on trade values.

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/7/15/950094/saber-friendly-blogging-101-trade

StayOnBoard
10-19-2010, 10:29 PM
I may get flamed for this but I would definitely consider trading Shawn Marcum. He's great, I love him, but his value is very high right now as a 28 year old under control, and unfortunately, he doesn't pitch that great in the AL East.

The Bautista debate is a tough one but personally I'd sign him to a 3 year deal and go from there... of course, if someone offers the farm, you have to look and at least consider it. It would be hard to turn down a trade with high level prospects based on him having one amazing year (although I think he'll still hit 35+ next year - for the record).

I wouldn't go after Fielder - I'd give that same money to Carl Crawford instead... he's worth every penny, he can bat lead off and he plays a great position. Not to mention he can steal bases and get on base, something pretty much none of our team can do successfully. Back up a brink truck - outbid everyone and take the one guy off the market who can help our team the most. The rest, doesn't even really matter much... they can let most of their FA's go - promote guys like JPA and Drabek and I think we'd be close to set. Another DH/1B type player wouldn't be bad either with having Lind at 1B/DH and Snider in the OF.

Just my 2 cents

bartron_44
10-21-2010, 01:56 PM
Mastroianni's an interesting name. Obviously don't expect him to be a star or anything, but it's not inconceivable that he turns out to be a Brett Gardner type offensively, which could be pretty darn valuable if he proves he can play at least an average CF.

We could even use him at DH and use Lind at 1B if he can get on base at a high rate like he did in the minors. Bat him 9th, and let him be our second leadoff....


-----

I mentioned this is another thread, but it really belongs here for discussion.

As much as I would love Crawford as a FA, AA has said publicly that he is more likely goging to go tht trade route to try and improve our team. He also seems to be the type of manager that buys low on players and hopes they reach their potential. (i.e Escobar)

I think a better choice for our next leadoff hitter would be to try and pry Chone Figgins away from Seattle. He just had an off year offensively, but would be a perfect fit in our defense and lineup. He can play 3rd (or second if we decide to play Hill at 3rd instead), and he can leadoff and steal bases. Escobar is more of a #2 hitter then a leadoff hitter, so this would put our batting order in a very good poistion imo...

Figgins
Escobar
Bautista
Wells
Snider
Lind
Hill
JPA (but could be Buck if we bring him back after being an all-star)
Mastroianni

If we don't decide to spend any real money this offseason, that would be one way to improve our team.....what do you think it would take to pry Figgins away from Seattle?

broncosfan_101
10-21-2010, 02:57 PM
I may get flamed for this but I would definitely consider trading Shawn Marcum. He's great, I love him, but his value is very high right now as a 28 year old under control, and unfortunately, he doesn't pitch that great in the AL East.

The Bautista debate is a tough one but personally I'd sign him to a 3 year deal and go from there... of course, if someone offers the farm, you have to look and at least consider it. It would be hard to turn down a trade with high level prospects based on him having one amazing year (although I think he'll still hit 35+ next year - for the record).

I wouldn't go after Fielder - I'd give that same money to Carl Crawford instead... he's worth every penny, he can bat lead off and he plays a great position. Not to mention he can steal bases and get on base, something pretty much none of our team can do successfully. Back up a brink truck - outbid everyone and take the one guy off the market who can help our team the most. The rest, doesn't even really matter much... they can let most of their FA's go - promote guys like JPA and Drabek and I think we'd be close to set. Another DH/1B type player wouldn't be bad either with having Lind at 1B/DH and Snider in the OF.

Just my 2 cents

Please explain how he plays a great position...last I checked, he plays the same position that Travis Snider should be stuck in, Vernon Wells should be relegated to, and the only spot Eric Thames has any defensive value...we're loaded at LF, we need corner infielders.

StayOnBoard
10-21-2010, 03:33 PM
Please explain how he plays a great position...last I checked, he plays the same position that Travis Snider should be stuck in, Vernon Wells should be relegated to, and the only spot Eric Thames has any defensive value...we're loaded at LF, we need corner infielders.

I find it funny that you pick the 4 words I may have misphrased in order to completely negliect my post.

Sorry... how about - he doesn't play "1st/DH" so he plays a position that's a lot more useful.

Is that better? Are you saying you don't want Crawford on our team?

town123
10-21-2010, 05:17 PM
Please explain how he plays a great position...last I checked, he plays the same position that Travis Snider should be stuck in, Vernon Wells should be relegated to, and the only spot Eric Thames has any defensive value...we're loaded at LF, we need corner infielders.

Agreed.

For 3B I'd rather pass on Figgins and try and get Alex Gordon from the Royals. Something bad is brewing in KC. For him and Greinke to both go south, seems like too much of a coincidence. I think it must be an organizational thing. I'd like to see Gordon get a fresh start in TO. (buy low)

Asham
10-21-2010, 05:55 PM
Whats with Jays fans and their man love for Chone Figgins

bartron_44
10-21-2010, 07:16 PM
^^we need a leadoff man, and a new 3rd baseman.....and he is pretty much the only one around who can fill both needs.

GNick
10-22-2010, 02:31 AM
Figgins? He has a huge contract with a .640 OPS last year. Why would we trade for him?

Tony Fernandez
10-22-2010, 03:52 AM
This is just blind speculation, but I'll bet that if Farrell does become manager, that AA will make a reasonably hard push for Fausto Carmona. Anthopolous was reportedly interested in him when he was rumoured to be available last year, and, from the little I've readabout him, Farrell was supposedly instrumental to his development when director of player development with the Indians.

He's a bit expensive ($6 million escalating to $12 million thru 2014 with three club options), and has been badly inconsistent, but since he's only 26, AA might try to hedge on his upside if he thinks Farrell knows him well enough to breed consistency out of him.

I don't know what it would take in terms of value, but he'd be an interesting piece if the came at a reasonable price.

scotttube
10-22-2010, 11:42 AM
The more I think about it the more it makes sense for the Jays to just continue to stockpile young cheap assets/build depth in their organization.

You can only do so many 2 for 1, 3 for 1 type trades. You can't afford to lose that much depth. It handcuffs you for future trades and leaves you without backup in case of injuries.

I'm fine with acquiring a guy like Rasmus, but for guys like Fielder I would rather wait until he's a FA (after next season) if the team is interested in him.

I doubt that Fielder makes it to free agency at all. He is going to be traded and extended this offseason.

T.O. Fan
10-22-2010, 03:49 PM
I doubt that Fielder makes it to free agency at all. He is going to be traded and extended this offseason.

Highly doubtful.

scotttube
10-22-2010, 06:04 PM
Highly doubtful.

I mean if he gets traded. Not that he'll take a discount. Just that the team hes traded to would negotiate with him. Probably extend him for like 7 years/$126 mil.

bartron_44
10-22-2010, 07:13 PM
Figgins? He has a huge contract with a .640 OPS last year. Why would we trade for him?

its called buying low. And although his OPS was low, he stil did what we would need him to do....which is simply get on base, play defense, steal some bases, and score runs. I realize he had a down year last year,...and thats the whole point for going after him. He obviously still has good tools, as he was great the 3 seasons prior to this year in Anaheim, and even this year he stole over 40 bases with an OBP of .340....(something only 2 Jays did this year.)

So, if we can get him for low level prospects , then I think he is another player we should take a chance on buying low (like we did with Escobar).

Most people think getting Escobar long term, even though we gave up our best left handed reliever, AND a borderline all-star this year to get him. I just think we still need someone like Figgins to bat in front of him...him playing 3rd too is just icing on the cake :)

We need someone with .375+ OBP potential to hit leadoff in front of Escobar to give us a lethal on base combo in front of our home run hitters. He just happened to have a down year last year, and plays a position we are looking for..If you have better ideas, please, bring them up :)

Asham
10-22-2010, 07:25 PM
its called buying low. And although his ops was low, he stil did what we would need him to do....which is simply get on base, play defense, steal some bases, and score runs. I realize he had a down year last year,...and thats the whole point for going after him. He obviously still has good tools, as he was great the 3 seasons prior to this year in anaheim, and even this year he stole over 40 bases with an obp of .340....(something only 2 jays did this year.)

so, if we can get him for low level prospects , then i think he is another player we should take a chance on buying low (like we did with escobar).

Most people think getting escobar long term, even though we gave up our best left handed reliever, and a borderline all-star this year to get him. I just think we still need someone like figgins to bat in front of him...him playing 3rd too is just icing on the cake :)

we need someone with .375+ obp potential to hit leadoff in front of escobar to give us a lethal on base combo in front of our home run hitters. He just happened to have a down year last year, and plays a position we are looking for..if you have better ideas, please, bring them up :)

sign superstar johnny damon

T.O. Fan
10-22-2010, 08:18 PM
I mean if he gets traded. Not that he'll take a discount. Just that the team hes traded to would negotiate with him. Probably extend him for like 7 years/$126 mil.

I don't doubt that the team that trades for him will try to sign him to an extension, I just doubt that he'd take it when he's a Boras client who's headed to FA for the first time.

There is definitely some good competition for first base FA's after next season (currently Pujols, Gonzalez are also set to become FA's), so I guess there's always a chance he signs rather than risk going up against those two.

Regardless, if the Jays feel that Fielder or Gonzalez (who I'd much rather anyway) would be in their plans I would rather they attempt to sign them as FA's then give up the players their current teams are going to require in return for them.

bartron_44
10-23-2010, 02:25 PM
sign superstar johnny damon

He could work as a DH if we play Lind at first...I think developing Mastroianni there would be better long term. He could be our 4th outfielder, and a DH when our regular starting lineup is in..and that would save some money to go after someone like Lee...

I wonder if Lee would sign in Toronto for like 30M per... like 150M over 5 years. He is arguably the best post season pitcher in the league, and he is a work horse anchor rotation.. If Rogers has unlimited money for "the right player", then I can't think of anyone else would rather give a big long term contract to....especially now that Doc is gone..

Think how valuable someone like Lee would be to Romero and Cecil..We would instantly have one of, if not the best rotations in the AL for the next few years.

kanersen
10-23-2010, 07:13 PM
^30 mill a year is too much, even for cliff lee

wamco
10-24-2010, 09:43 AM
I wouldn't go over halladay money for Lee

B2B
10-24-2010, 11:25 AM
Jays holes (3B, 1B, Closer, Ace), current payroll 70mil

Resign Bautista 24mil, 3ys = 78mil. Outfield- (LF Snider, CF Wells, RF Bautista)

Sign Beltre 30mil, 3ys = 88mil. Infield- (3B Beltre, SS Escobar, 2B Hill, 1B ?)

Trade pitching depth for Fielder (Stewart + Mills + Jenkins) for (Fielder)

Extend fielder 160mil, 6ys = 103mil.

Move Lind to DH,

Catcher (Molina or Buck)/Arencibia

Rotation- (Marcum, Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek)

Consider trading Drabek in a package for Greinke?

Possible rotation- (Greinke, Romero, Marcum, Cecil, Morrow) depth Rezypski, Jansen, Purcey, Litch

Batting Order

Wells (330 OB% + he must have speed to be playing CF).
Escobar
Bautista
Fielder (Consistent 30+ HR's 80+ RBI)
Beltre
Lind
Hill
Snider
Molina/Arencibia

Sign 2 B level closers Gregg & Fuentes. One right, one left & share the closer role. Hope one or both reach type A status.

Gregg 7mil 2ys = 110mil
Fuentes ? = ?

Resign Downs ? = ?

Bullpen

Fuentes L Closer
Gregg R Closer
Downs
Carlsen
Camp
Jansen
Mills
Roenick
Rezypski

Eagles4Lyfe
10-24-2010, 11:52 AM
dont forget richmond^^ he should be back next year and as always who knows about dustin mcgowan hopefully he makes a recovery and becomes a nice set up man

ah nuts
10-24-2010, 04:27 PM
dont forget richmond^^ he should be back next year and as always who knows about dustin mcgowan hopefully he makes a recovery and becomes a nice set up man

I really want to see him back, otherwise, what a waste.

GNick
10-24-2010, 05:21 PM
Jays holes (3B, 1B, Closer, Ace), current payroll 70mil

Resign Bautista 24mil, 3ys = 78mil. Outfield- (LF Snider, CF Wells, RF Bautista)

Sign Beltre 30mil, 3ys = 88mil. Infield- (3B Beltre, SS Escobar, 2B Hill, 1B ?)

Trade pitching depth for Fielder (Stewart + Mills + Jenkins) for (Fielder)

Extend fielder 160mil, 6ys = 103mil.

Move Lind to DH,

Catcher (Molina or Buck)/Arencibia

Rotation- (Marcum, Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek)

Consider trading Drabek in a package for Greinke?

Possible rotation- (Greinke, Romero, Marcum, Cecil, Morrow) depth Rezypski, Jansen, Purcey, Litch

Batting Order

Wells (330 OB% + he must have speed to be playing CF).
Escobar
Bautista
Fielder (Consistent 30+ HR's 80+ RBI)
Beltre
Lind
Hill
Snider
Molina/Arencibia

Sign 2 B level closers Gregg & Fuentes. One right, one left & share the closer role. Hope one or both reach type A status.

Gregg 7mil 2ys = 110mil
Fuentes ? = ?

Resign Downs ? = ?

Bullpen

Fuentes L Closer
Gregg R Closer
Downs
Carlsen
Camp
Jansen
Mills
Roenick
Rezypski

Don't like Beltre or Fielder. Beltre is a hot and cold player, bit of a headcase also. Fielder is a non-athletic guy playing on turf.

Asham
10-24-2010, 05:42 PM
Jays holes (3B, 1B, Closer, Ace), current payroll 70mil

Resign Bautista 24mil, 3ys = 78mil. Outfield- (LF Snider, CF Wells, RF Bautista)

Sign Beltre 30mil, 3ys = 88mil. Infield- (3B Beltre, SS Escobar, 2B Hill, 1B ?)

Trade pitching depth for Fielder (Stewart + Mills + Jenkins) for (Fielder)

Extend fielder 160mil, 6ys = 103mil.

Move Lind to DH,

Catcher (Molina or Buck)/Arencibia

Rotation- (Marcum, Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek)

Consider trading Drabek in a package for Greinke?

Possible rotation- (Greinke, Romero, Marcum, Cecil, Morrow) depth Rezypski, Jansen, Purcey, Litch

Batting Order

Wells (330 OB% + he must have speed to be playing CF).
Escobar
Bautista
Fielder (Consistent 30+ HR's 80+ RBI)
Beltre
Lind
Hill
Snider
Molina/Arencibia

Sign 2 B level closers Gregg & Fuentes. One right, one left & share the closer role. Hope one or both reach type A status.

Gregg 7mil 2ys = 110mil
Fuentes ? = ?

Resign Downs ? = ?

Bullpen

Fuentes L Closer
Gregg R Closer
Downs
Carlsen
Camp
Jansen
Mills
Roenick
Rezypski

Why spend 160 million on fielder when you might be able to get cliff lee for a similar amount?

B2B
10-24-2010, 07:51 PM
Why spend 160 million on fielder when you might be able to get cliff lee for a similar amount?

Besides the fact Lee is 32 & Fielder is 26

The gap between Marcum/Lee as ace is not as big as the gap between the hole @ 1st & consistent production from the cleanup spot & Fielder

Fielder's everyday production @ first & cleanup will have a greater impact/difference than starting Lee over Marcum as the teams ace.

Starting pitching isn't/hasn't been this teams weakness. Consistent offence is, Fielder IMO would be a good offensive backbone.

Asham
10-24-2010, 08:00 PM
Please dont put cliff lee and shaun marcum's name in the same sentence. Id rather sign Carl crawford to 160 million dollars. At least he gives the blue jays something they dont have, a guy who can lead off, run and plays a position that is more valuable than fielder

B2B
10-25-2010, 10:37 AM
Please dont put cliff lee and shaun marcum's name in the same sentence.

Never said Marcum is as good as Lee. I said the production gap is not as big as the hole at first.

Marcum 13-8 | 3.64 ERA |165 K | 45 W | 1.15 whip

Lee 12-9 | 3.18 ERA | 185 K | 15 W | 1.00 whip

Lee is the better pitcher but I remain the production gap is not as big as 1st/offence

1B/Offence

Overbay 243 Avg | 20 HR's | 67 RBI | 75 runs | 1 SB - better defence
or
Lind 237 Avg | 23 HR's | 72 RBI | 57 runs | 0 SB - defence/speed (poor-avg)


Fielder 261 Avg | 32 HR's | 83 RBI | 94 runs | 1 SB - On par with Lind speed/defence?

-Prince career avg is 280, those are down season #'s.
-Overbay contract year & had one of his better seasons in a while
-Lind showed inconsistency

Fielder has consistently hit those numbers or better for the last 5 years & is daily production as apposed to every 5 days.

Therefore I see the gap production at 1st greater than the gap production between Marcum & Lee.

I sign Fielder over Lee/Crawford, for this club.


Id rather sign Carl crawford to 160 million dollars. At least he gives the blue jays something they dont have, a guy who can lead off, run and plays a position that is more valuable than fielder

-Crawford is 29, Fielder is 26. Speed is apart of Crawfords game he's heading to the wrong side of 30.

-Wells is playing centre field with a 20mil contract until 2014. Snider left, Bautista right. Do you plan to play Bautista @ 3rd & have 40mil tied up in CF & RF with Crawford, Wells. When you can sign Bautista @ 24mil to play right & Beltre 30mil to play 3rd?

(Crawford 25mil OF) compared to (Bautista OF 8mil + Beltre 3B 10mil = 18mil)

Signing (Crawford 25mil OF + Bautista 8mil 3B + 10mil ? 1B)

as apposed to:

Siging (Fielder 25mil 1B + Beltre 10mil 3B + Bautista 8mil RF)

Beltre is better defensively @ 3rd than Bautista, can hit for avg
Bautista could match Crawford's production in OF.
Fielders offensive production @ 1st is better than anything you'll get for 10mil.

Rather have Bautista @ 8mil than Crawford @ 25mil in the OF.

Being on the wrong side of 30 I see Crawfords contract eventually looking like Wells.

2009mvp
10-25-2010, 12:39 PM
Beltre is not signing for 10M per. IIRC he got 10M last year as a 'show-me' type deal coming off of a down year. After an MVP caliber season last year he (and Boras, of course) are gonna be looking to cash in.

B2B
10-25-2010, 02:37 PM
Beltre is not signing for 10M per. IIRC he got 10M last year as a 'show-me' type deal coming off of a down year. After an MVP caliber season last year he (and Boras, of course) are gonna be looking to cash in.


6. Beltre, Red Sox 3B. Superb defender has set himself up nicely with another big walk year.

Executive: $48 million, 4 years. Agent 1: $30 million, three years. Agent 2: $42 million, 3 years. Me: $40 million, 3 years.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/09/22/best.free.agents/index.html

Beltre was expected to provide strong defense and a useful bat, perhaps a .330 OBP with 25 home runs. Instead he's got a .330/.362/.509 line in 232 plate appearances. He's tied for ninth in the AL with 40 RBIs; reaching 100 for the second time in his career won't hurt his earning potential.

Beltre's contract includes a 2011 player option worth $5MM, which will increase to $10MM with 640 plate appearances this year. He's currently on pace for 637, so it'll be tight. The $10MM option was never terribly relevant, though - if Beltre played enough to reach 640 PAs, he'd probably have a season worthy of more than a one-year, $10MM commitment. Beltre is highly likely to decline his player option whether it's $5MM or $10MM.

I would not be surprised to see Beltre seek a four-year deal in the $50MM range at the outset of the offseason.

********************************/2010/06/free-agent-stock-watch-adrian-beltre.html

Beltre 3-4 years 10-12mil

ah nuts
10-25-2010, 02:38 PM
Never said Marcum is as good as Lee. I said the production gap is not as big as the hole at first.

Marcum 13-8 | 3.64 ERA |165 K | 45 W | 1.15 whip

Lee 12-9 | 3.18 ERA | 185 K | 15 W | 1.00 whip

Lee is the better pitcher but I remain the production gap is not as big as 1st/offence

1B/Offence

Overbay 243 Avg | 20 HR's | 67 RBI | 75 runs | 1 SB - better defence
or
Lind 237 Avg | 23 HR's | 72 RBI | 57 runs | 0 SB - defence/speed (poor-avg)


Fielder 261 Avg | 32 HR's | 83 RBI | 94 runs | 1 SB - On par with Lind speed/defence?

-Prince career avg is 280, those are down season #'s.
-Overbay contract year & had one of his better seasons in a while
-Lind showed inconsistency

Fielder has consistently hit those numbers or better for the last 5 years & is daily production as apposed to every 5 days.

Therefore I see the gap production at 1st greater than the gap production between Marcum & Lee.

I sign Fielder over Lee/Crawford, for this club.



-Crawford is 29, Fielder is 26. Speed is apart of Crawfords game he's heading to the wrong side of 30.

-Wells is playing centre field with a 20mil contract until 2014. Snider left, Bautista right. Do you plan to play Bautista @ 3rd & have 40mil tied up in CF & RF with Crawford, Wells. When you can sign Bautista @ 24mil to play right & Beltre 30mil to play 3rd?

(Crawford 25mil OF) compared to (Bautista OF 8mil + Beltre 3B 10mil = 18mil)

Signing (Crawford 25mil OF + Bautista 8mil 3B + 10mil ? 1B)

as apposed to:

Siging (Fielder 25mil 1B + Beltre 10mil 3B + Bautista 8mil RF)

Beltre is better defensively @ 3rd than Bautista, can hit for avg
Bautista could match Crawford's production in OF.
Fielders offensive production @ 1st is better than anything you'll get for 10mil.

Rather have Bautista @ 8mil than Crawford @ 25mil in the OF.

Being on the wrong side of 30 I see Crawfords contract eventually looking like Wells.

again forget fielder - he has 3 "AA strikes".
1. will cost high end blue jay assets
2. will cost more $$ than his value (count on it with his agent!!!)
3. he is not a well rounded player (accept for abdomen)

can't see AA ever trading for him.

B2B
10-25-2010, 02:57 PM
again forget fielder - he has 3 "AA strikes".
1. will cost high end blue jay assets
2. will cost more $$ than his value (count on it with his agent!!!)
3. he is not a well rounded player (accept for abdomen)

can't see AA ever trading for him.

1. I understand not wanting to part with top prospects but is trading a top ranked prospect for Gose, an unranked prospect with risk really following that rule?.

^ Wallace was/is ranked much higher than Gose. Gose just made sense as IMO Fielder makes sense. Fielder IMO improves this team in a big way, I'm not going to pretend I know what AA is thinking.

2. I agree money is an obsticle, is it that Fielders a big money player or that he will get more money because of his agent? or both?.

3. Wallace once considered a future piece is/was no toothpick when they traded for him.

Difference IMO is Fielder is more than AA expected out of Wallace in terms of production though Wallace is rookie controlled on less salary. (Name of the game is winning/production, Fielder is everything they wished Wallace would be)

I understand you don't see Fielder as a AA type player but does Wallace really fit that mold?.

Wallace big & slow
Wallace poor defence
Wallace team could only wish his offence becomes what Fielder's is already with a 2 year difference in age.

Even after being traded AA said he wanted to retain Wallace so they did consider him the future @ 1st.

Fielder with money in tow > Wallace

ah nuts
10-25-2010, 03:37 PM
1. I understand not wanting to part with top prospects but is trading a top ranked prospect for Gose, an unranked prospect with risk really following that rule?.

^ Wallace was/is ranked much higher than Gose. Gose just made sense as IMO Fielder makes sense. Fielder IMO improves this team in a big way, I'm not going to pretend I know what AA is thinking.

2. I agree money is an obsticle, is it that Fielders a big money player or that he will get more money because of his agent? or both?.

3. Wallace once considered a future piece is/was no toothpick when they traded for him.

Difference IMO is Fielder is more than AA expected out of Wallace in terms of production though Wallace is rookie controlled on less salary. (Name of the game is winning/production, Fielder is everything they wished Wallace would be)

I understand you don't see Fielder as a AA type player but does Wallace really fit that mold?.

Wallace big & slow
Wallace poor defence
Wallace team could only wish his offence becomes what Fielder's is already with a 2 year difference in age.

Even after being traded AA said he wanted to retain Wallace so they did consider him the future @ 1st.

Fielder with money in tow > Wallace

I don't see fielder and Wallace's foot speed are comparable. I can't see Wallace being labeled as a base clogger. Just MLB average. Fielder is a clogger. Can you ever image fielder playing 3rd???

But anyway, the circumstance is different. If Fielder was offered as part of the Halladay deal, AA would take him. Fielder would be considered a high asset player. But the reality of the current situation, Fielder is just way too much for a org just rebuilding it's foundation.

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 03:53 PM
I would like to see the Yankees sign Crawford and make Brett Gardner available.

The Jays could do well with Gardner as their leadoff man. He's also under team control through 2014. His defense is also very good. He could slide into CF and have either Wells or Snider in RF with Bautista at 3B or 1B.

Here's his fangraphs page:

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9927&position=OF

Perhaps a couple pen arms could get it done. ;)

bartron_44
10-25-2010, 03:57 PM
Besides the fact Lee is 32 & Fielder is 26

The gap between Marcum/Lee as ace is not as big as the gap between the hole @ 1st & consistent production from the cleanup spot & Fielder

Fielder's everyday production @ first & cleanup will have a greater impact/difference than starting Lee over Marcum as the teams ace.

Starting pitching isn't/hasn't been this teams weakness. Consistent offence is, Fielder IMO would be a good offensive backbone.



All I can say here is....WOW

Cliff Lee is worth so much more then Fielder (to any team) that it isn't even funny. He is arguably the best post season pitcher in the game right now, and a great leader for our rotation.

Fielder is a lazy bag of Milk that will need to play DH by the time that contract is over....If you are breaking the bank for a 1st baseman, I would go after A. Dunn or A.Gonzalez LONG before I went after Fielder...

Asham
10-25-2010, 04:01 PM
The only person who would give 160 million dollars to fielder is a man by the name of jp ricciardi and i dont even think he would give that to a 1st baseman with fielder's skill set

StayOnBoard
10-25-2010, 04:07 PM
I would like to see the Yankees sign Crawford and make Brett Gardner available.

The Jays could do well with Gardner as their leadoff man. He's also under team control through 2014. His defense is also very good. He could slide into CF and have either Wells or Snider in RF with Bautista at 3B or 1B.

Here's his fangraphs page:

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9927&position=OF

Perhaps a couple pen arms could get it done. ;)

I would LOVE this... I just can't see it.

Gardner is a great player - I have liked him since he was called up last year. Great wheels, can bat leadoff and can play CF as you mentioned.

This would be VERY solid... let's hope he does become available and the Jays can snatch him up :)

B2B
10-25-2010, 05:45 PM
I don't see fielder and Wallace's foot speed are comparable. I can't see Wallace being labeled as a base clogger. Just MLB average. Fielder is a clogger. Can you ever image fielder playing 3rd???

But anyway, the circumstance is different. If Fielder was offered as part of the Halladay deal, AA would take him. Fielder would be considered a high asset player. But the reality of the current situation, Fielder is just way too much for a org just rebuilding it's foundation.

Wallace was not part of the Halladay deal they traded a 5 tool outfielder for him?.

AA traded for a player with poor speed, poor defence, upside bat. age 24

Fielder is poor speed, avg defence, consistent power bat. age 26

B2B
10-25-2010, 05:49 PM
All I can say here is....WOW

Cliff Lee is worth so much more then Fielder (to any team) that it isn't even funny. He is arguably the best post season pitcher in the game right now, and a great leader for our rotation.

Fielder is a lazy bag of Milk that will need to play DH by the time that contract is over....If you are breaking the bank for a 1st baseman, I would go after A. Dunn or A.Gonzalez LONG before I went after Fielder...

Lee would be great to have but the point was production gap from Marcum to Lee is less than the production gap of a hole at first/Lind & fielder.

if Jays had a hole in pitching & a hole at first base then I would take Lee.

Fact is Jays have Marcum/Morrow/Romero/Cecil/Drabek pitching & a hole at first so I see more value in Fielder because of this.

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 08:35 PM
I would LOVE this... I just can't see it.

Gardner is a great player - I have liked him since he was called up last year. Great wheels, can bat leadoff and can play CF as you mentioned.

This would be VERY solid... let's hope he does become available and the Jays can snatch him up :)

Ya, possibly a 3 team deal with the Yankees not knowing he's coming to the Jays ;)

I'm probably going to get slammed for this, but at this point in the Jays quest to be a perrennial contender I think I would actually rather Gardner than Crawford. Crawford is a guy you sign if you're a legit contender now, or by adding him you think you're a legit contender. I personally don't think the Jays are either, yet.

Gardner is younger, had a higher OBP by far and the same number of SB. The Jays also wouldn't have to give up picks and a boat load of $$$ to get him. All that said, he definitely doesn't have the track record of a Crawford and the Jays would have to weigh the price to acquire Gardner against what production they think he will provide going forward.

riderfan60
10-25-2010, 08:56 PM
Ya, possibly a 3 team deal with the Yankees not knowing he's coming to the Jays ;)

I'm probably going to get slammed for this, but at this point in the Jays quest to be a perrennial contender I think would actually rather Gardner than Crawford. Crawford is a guy you sign if you're a legit contender now, or by adding him you think you're a legit contender. I personally don't think the Jays are either, yet.

Gardner is younger, had a higher OBP by far and the same number of SB. The Jays also wouldn't have to give up picks and a boat load of $$$ to get him. All that said, he definitely doesn't have the track record of a Crawford and the Jays would have to weigh the price to acquire Gardner against what production they think he will provide going forward.

Your comment shouldn't get slammed, it's a far more sensible than Crawford. Crawford didn't even bat leadoff for the Rays in 2010. Gardner would be the right age for the Jays for next several years, I'm just not sure how we'll get him from the Yankees.

town123
10-25-2010, 09:00 PM
Your comment shouldn't get slammed, it's a far more sensible than Crawford. Crawford didn't even bat leadoff for the Rays in 2010. Gardner would be the right age for the Jays for next several years, I'm just not sure how we'll get him from the Yankees.

If the Yankees sign Crawford...... might be the only way the Jays have a shot at Gardner

T.O. Fan
10-25-2010, 09:04 PM
Your comment shouldn't get slammed, it's a far more sensible than Crawford. Crawford didn't even bat leadoff for the Rays in 2010. Gardner would be the right age for the Jays for next several years, I'm just not sure how we'll get him from the Yankees.


If the Yankees sign Crawford...... might be the only way the Jays have a shot at Gardner

I would assume they wouldn't really have a need for him if they signed Crawford, unless they wanted to hord him as their 4th outfielder.

From what I remember they needed bullpen help and now obviously starting pitching.

It's definitely highly unlikely.

TyA
10-26-2010, 01:42 PM
Alright, I know none of this will probably happen, but I've been playing around with some ideas, and this is the most potent toronto lineup I could come up with that seems like it could possibly be reasonable ....

Sign Carl Crawford LF
Sign Manny Ramirez DH
Sign Orlando Hudson 2B
Resign John Buck
Move Arron Hill to 3B

Trade:

To Padres: Travis Snider, Adam Lind, Brad Mills, (JP Arencibia/Marc Rzep)

To Blue Jays: Adrian Gonzalez, Heath Bell

Lineup:

LF Carl Crawford
SS Yunel Escobar
RF Jose Bautista
1B Adrian Gonzalez
DH Manny Ramirez
CF Vernon Wells
C John Buck
3B Aaron Hill
2B Orlando Hudson

Bench:

DeWayne Wise
John McDonald
Jose Molina
Mike McCoy

Rotation:

Shaun Marcum
Ricky Romero
Brandon Morrow
Brett Cecil
Kyle Drabek

CL Heath Bell


Filthy, IMO immediate contenders.
Ky

nearyG
10-26-2010, 01:59 PM
why does everyone give a rats *** about chone figgins..NO ONE is talking about adrian beltre...hes a great situational hitter...gold glove at third...still only 31 next year..a year older than bautista...he hits lefties with ease....if you add manny and beltre...the offense is in business...this might be a better idea than overpaying for fielder..

ss escobar
2b hill
rf bautista
dh ramirez
1b lind
3b beltre
cf wells
rf snider
c arencebia

StayOnBoard
10-26-2010, 03:04 PM
Ya, possibly a 3 team deal with the Yankees not knowing he's coming to the Jays ;)

I'm probably going to get slammed for this, but at this point in the Jays quest to be a perrennial contender I think I would actually rather Gardner than Crawford. Crawford is a guy you sign if you're a legit contender now, or by adding him you think you're a legit contender. I personally don't think the Jays are either, yet.

Gardner is younger, had a higher OBP by far and the same number of SB. The Jays also wouldn't have to give up picks and a boat load of $$$ to get him. All that said, he definitely doesn't have the track record of a Crawford and the Jays would have to weigh the price to acquire Gardner against what production they think he will provide going forward.

I COMPLETELY agree with you... fully.

For the Jays, Gardner makes way more sense. Now - that being said - Gardner is not a free agent and Crawford is... So the package you have to give up will "only" be money (plus the first round draft pick but such is life).

I would be very curious what it would take to get a guy like Gardner. He's an everyday player with the yankees, he's young, he's fast and he gets on base. Something we need desperately... but he can't come cheap. I mean - would a Marcum type deal get it done? Would they want one of our top young players? I honestly have absolutely ZERO idea what it would take to get him but he's not a throw in player anymore and in fact, I'd say his value is VERY high right about now.

Should be an interesting off-season (the only thing Im actually sure of) :) lol

CB29
10-26-2010, 05:38 PM
Not a trade thing but just heard that MLB is thinking of expanding play-offs to add more wildcard teams... That is probably the biggest & best thing that could happen to the jays....

town123
10-26-2010, 06:07 PM
I COMPLETELY agree with you... fully.

For the Jays, Gardner makes way more sense. Now - that being said - Gardner is not a free agent and Crawford is... So the package you have to give up will "only" be money (plus the first round draft pick but such is life).

I would be very curious what it would take to get a guy like Gardner. He's an everyday player with the yankees, he's young, he's fast and he gets on base. Something we need desperately... but he can't come cheap. I mean - would a Marcum type deal get it done? Would they want one of our top young players? I honestly have absolutely ZERO idea what it would take to get him but he's not a throw in player anymore and in fact, I'd say his value is VERY high right about now.

Should be an interesting off-season (the only thing Im actually sure of) :) lol

Since Cecil beat them pretty good this year, what would you think of a Cecil + crap for Montero and Gardner (assuming they go after Crawford)

I'm just not that big on Cecil over the long haul.

Twins Fan 7
10-26-2010, 06:11 PM
You guys need a lead-off man, right?

Would Denard Span interest you? We have a replacement for him that was a Sept. call-up and he'll be ready in no time.

StayOnBoard
10-26-2010, 06:21 PM
You guys need a lead-off man, right?

Would Denard Span interest you? We have a replacement for him that was a Sept. call-up and he'll be ready in no time.

I think Span is a very good player... what's his contract situation?

He IS very much the type of player we should go after IMO... but AA likes young, controllable guys.

I should just not be lazy and go google :)

T.O. Fan
10-26-2010, 06:28 PM
^^^Could be a decent buy low situation. He's under contract until 2014 with a club option for 2015 (signed a 5 year, $16 mil contract beginning with the 2010 season).

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/minnesota-twins_17.html

Span wasn't nearly as good getting on base in 2010 as he was in 2009, but I assume that may have a lot to do with his low BABIP last year (.294). He also walked less.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8347&position=OF

Was he playing injured at all last year? Did the change ball park change effect him?

What would the Twins be looking for?

North Yorker
10-26-2010, 06:37 PM
You guys need a lead-off man, right?

Would Denard Span interest you? We have a replacement for him that was a Sept. call-up and he'll be ready in no time.

Span would be interesting. He could bridge the gap between now and when Gose is ready. He kinda had a down yr from what was expected from him though...

This does make him a likely AA target. Young-ish guy that is athletic that had a down year like Yunel. Has shown a very high OBP in the past, would move Wells to RF and Bautista to 3B.

But again there is the Lind problem at 1B and whether he can handle it. I feel we need a very good defender at either 1B or 3B.

If we do make a play for Span, or any move for that matter that moves Bautista to 3B, I wonder if AA tries to trade Lind, even though his stock isnt that high.

Twins Fan 7
10-26-2010, 06:55 PM
^^^Could be a decent buy low situation. He's under contract until 2014 with a club option for 2015 (signed a 5 year, $16 mil contract beginning with the 2010 season).

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/minnesota-twins_17.html

Span wasn't nearly as good getting on base in 2010 as he was in 2009, but I assume that may have a lot to do with his low BABIP last year (.294). He also walked less.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8347&position=OF

Was he playing injured at all last year? Did the change ball park change effect him?

What would the Twins be looking for?

Span wasn't injured or anything like that. Slow start and never really got going. I think it's more of a case where he played over his head in '08 and '09. If any of you remember, Carlos Gomez won the CF job over span in '08 and Span went back to AAA for a second stint. Once he made it to the bigs, he just took off.

I don't think our GM would sell low on him, but he would trade him because Revere is going to be ready soon and Cuddyer can play CF if Revere needs more seasoning.

A problem that could arise is that were both planning to have a winning season next year and wouldn't want prospects in return. We would want something to help us next year like a 2B or a #2 pitcher.

Aaron Hill isn't going anywhere and Marcum for Span would have been feasible if Span had another good year. The one thing I know is we don't need any more #3-4 type starters.

North Yorker
10-26-2010, 07:00 PM
Span wasn't injured or anything like that. Slow start and never really got going. I think it's more of a case where he played over his head in '08 and '09. If any of you remember, Carlos Gomez won the CF job over span in '08 and Span went back to AAA for a second stint. Once he made it to the bigs, he just took off.

I don't think our GM would sell low on him, but he would trade him because Revere is going to be ready soon and Cuddyer can play CF if Revere needs more seasoning.

A problem that could arise is that were both planning to have a winning season next year and wouldn't want prospects in return. We would want something to help us next year like a 2B or a #2 pitcher.

Aaron Hill isn't going anywhere and Marcum for Span would have been feasible if Span had another good year. The one thing I know is we don't need any more #3-4 type starters.


Marcum + spec(not Stewart/Drabek) for Span and Sano?

Twins Fan 7
10-26-2010, 07:18 PM
We didn't give Sano $3 million to be a trade chip. I don't think the Twins would trade him unless it was an amazing deal. Similar to you guys and Hechevarria. The Twins would do Span and a prospect (No top prospects) for Marcum.

T.O. Fan
10-26-2010, 07:42 PM
^^^ Agreed that they wouldn't do Span and Sano.

Other than Sano, what other "top prospects" are you referring to (assuming Hicks and Revere)?

If I'm the Jays and I'm dealing a legit top 3 starter who's proven in the AL East I want more than just Span and a decent prospect. I would be looking at perhaps expanding the deal and trying to also land Kyle Gibson. I'm not too sure what the Twins needs are (bullpen?), so I'm not really sure if there would even be a match there.

Twins Fan 7
10-26-2010, 08:20 PM
^^^ Agreed that they wouldn't do Span and Sano.

Other than Sano, what other "top prospects" are you referring to (assuming Hicks and Revere)?

If I'm the Jays and I'm dealing a legit top 3 starter who's proven in the AL East I want more than just Span and a decent prospect. I would be looking at perhaps expanding the deal and trying to also land Kyle Gibson. I'm not too sure what the Twins needs are (bullpen?), so I'm not really sure if there would even be a match there.

Gibson is just about major league ready and we would only trade him for an ace who was controllable for years and while Marcum is nice, he's more of a #2 or a really good #3. Gibson is pretty much untouchable. Gibson will likely be better than Marcum in a few years.

I was thinking something more like Span and Chris Parmelee for Marcum.

T.O. Fan
10-26-2010, 11:03 PM
^^^ That's basically what I figured about Gibson.

wamco
10-27-2010, 08:36 AM
I wondered why span didn't attempt more sb's as he had a good success rate last I checked.

Twins Fan 7
10-27-2010, 01:34 PM
Span isn't that fast, at least for a base stealer. He also was terrible with getting picked off last year. We also didn't run much this year because they're always worried about him getting picked off with Joe Mauer on deck. We hardly ran this year, way too conservative.

Shifty1 69
10-27-2010, 01:52 PM
3. he is not a well rounded player (accept for abdomen)

this made me laugh.:facepalm::D

Shifty1 69
10-27-2010, 02:00 PM
Ya, possibly a 3 team deal with the Yankees not knowing he's coming to the Jays ;)

I'm probably going to get slammed for this, but at this point in the Jays quest to be a perrennial contender I think I would actually rather Gardner than Crawford. Crawford is a guy you sign if you're a legit contender now, or by adding him you think you're a legit contender. I personally don't think the Jays are either, yet.

Gardner is younger, had a higher OBP by far and the same number of SB. The Jays also wouldn't have to give up picks and a boat load of $$$ to get him. All that said, he definitely doesn't have the track record of a Crawford and the Jays would have to weigh the price to acquire Gardner against what production they think he will provide going forward.

I agree.

All things considered equal, the cost difference is outstanding and a reason why I think the Yanks would have to be ******** to spend $150mil on Crawford when they have Gardner already? Fortunately I think that the Yanks ARE that stupid when it comes to spending $ and may do so just because they like to make a splash with getting as many of the concensus top FA's as they can, lol
Better defender I believe as well.

bomber0104
10-28-2010, 01:43 PM
You guys need a lead-off man, right?

Would Denard Span interest you? We have a replacement for him that was a Sept. call-up and he'll be ready in no time.

I think Span is a decent player but I believe the Jays would be looking for a more talented player in a Marcum deal

T.O. Fan
10-28-2010, 08:49 PM
As I scoured through the unremarkable list of potential FA 3B and went through their stats I realized that Edwin Encarnacion isn't really much worse than what's out there.

The only name that looked more appealing not named Beltre was actually Juan Uribe.

Uribe's slash line of .248/.310/.440 this year was fairly similar to EE line of .244/.305/.482, as was their BABIP (Uribe .256, EE .235).

However, Uribe is a much better fielder than EE.

Uribe
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=454&position=SS

Encarnacion
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=2151&position=3B

For those of you who think Bautista would be a good option at 3B please take a look at his horrendous defensive stats at the hot corner. Shhh, don't tell anyone but he was worse than EE.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1887&position=3B/OF

IMO, the position that Bautista should be playing next year is 1B and hopefully the Jays can find an OF who can be a leadoff guy and a 3B who can catch and throw.

Really, if the Jays are concerned with defense and they want to spend money you can't really do much better than Beltre at 3B. If they don't want to spend a whole lot then they should go after a guy like Uribe short term or just bring Encarnacion back.

Here are some possible long term 3B trade targets currently in the minors with other organizaitons: Josh Vitters 20, Cubs; Bobby Bochering 19, Diamondbacks; Matt Dominguez 20, Marlins; James Darnell 23, Padres; Brent Morel 23, White Sox; Lonnie Chisenhall 21, Indians. I purposely left guys like Pedro Alvarez and Mike Moustakas off this list because their really isn't any chance they are dealt anytime soon.

Pride
10-29-2010, 02:45 AM
I want no part of Juan Uribe...

boilerguy2412
10-29-2010, 07:15 AM
I would be fine with Bautista at 3rd, if he played every day at that position he would be fine IMO. I know some of you still don't like moving Hill to 3rd but i think that's where he best suited for our future and Hetch at 2nd. I would move Hill now and find a 2b via trade for the next season or 2

T.O. Fan
10-29-2010, 10:39 AM
I want no part of Juan Uribe...

Because..............

ewuoy1545
10-29-2010, 01:06 PM
Alright, I know none of this will probably happen, but I've been playing around with some ideas, and this is the most potent toronto lineup I could come up with that seems like it could possibly be reasonable ....

Sign Carl Crawford LF
Sign Manny Ramirez DH
Sign Orlando Hudson 2B
Resign John Buck
Move Arron Hill to 3B

Trade:

To Padres: Travis Snider, Adam Lind, Brad Mills, (JP Arencibia/Marc Rzep)

To Blue Jays: Adrian Gonzalez, Heath Bell

Lineup:

LF Carl Crawford
SS Yunel Escobar
RF Jose Bautista
1B Adrian Gonzalez
DH Manny Ramirez
CF Vernon Wells
C John Buck
3B Aaron Hill
2B Orlando Hudson

Bench:

DeWayne Wise
John McDonald
Jose Molina
Mike McCoy

Rotation:

Shaun Marcum
Ricky Romero
Brandon Morrow
Brett Cecil
Kyle Drabek

CL Heath Bell


Filthy, IMO immediate contenders.
Ky

Easily one of the worst ideas in this thread. How you paid any attention to anything AA has said at all? Trading away pitching depth, Arencibia, and overpaying for players is the complete opposite of what he wants to do. Yes, that would be an incredible lineup but it just doesn't make any sense given the current direction of the Jays. Especially since Snider could put up numbers close to what Gonzalez does in a couple of years. On top of that, you're giving up on Lind who should bounce back and have several productive years similar to 2009.

Also, people should stop talking about Beltre. He's going to demand a huge contract, will be 32, and won't put up the numbers he did last year.

Shifty1 69
10-29-2010, 01:47 PM
Easily one of the worst ideas in this thread. How you paid any attention to anything AA has said at all? Trading away pitching depth, Arencibia, and overpaying for players is the complete opposite of what he wants to do. Yes, that would be an incredible lineup but it just doesn't make any sense given the current direction of the Jays. Especially since Snider could put up numbers close to what Gonzalez does in a couple of years. On top of that, you're giving up on Lind who should bounce back and have several productive years similar to 2009.

Also, people should stop talking about Beltre. He's going to demand a huge contract, will be 32, and won't put up the numbers he did last year.

Easily NOT one of the worst ideas in this thread (that is more of an indictment of some of the truly ridiculous ideas, lol.)

Yes, it is a far departure from the rebuild from within idea. lol It would certainly hurt/kill the youth movement and perhaps is not the answer to a sustainable run... but it would be a killer lineup and a certain contender from the start of the season!! :speechless::D haha
And at least the pitching would remain untouched, lol.

I dont necessarily want to see it happen, but its not the worst thing posted in this thread. I am sure somewhere someone has suggested we trade Drabek and Snider for Mat Gamel....:rolleyes::D

Billyen
10-29-2010, 08:37 PM
Easily one of the worst ideas in this thread. How you paid any attention to anything AA has said at all? Trading away pitching depth, Arencibia, and overpaying for players is the complete opposite of what he wants to do. Yes, that would be an incredible lineup but it just doesn't make any sense given the current direction of the Jays. Especially since Snider could put up numbers close to what Gonzalez does in a couple of years. On top of that, you're giving up on Lind who should bounce back and have several productive years similar to 2009.

Also, people should stop talking about Beltre. He's going to demand a huge contract, will be 32, and won't put up the numbers he did last year.

Actually, I think it's a decent idea. However, I'd like to see it done next year. Right now, I want the farm fatten up with more picks. I want to drown in prospects. I do like the idea of getting Manny now though.

TO to the CHI
10-30-2010, 12:39 AM
Actually, I think it's a decent idea. However, I'd like to see it done next year. Right now, I want the farm fatten up with more picks. I want to drown in prospects. I do like the idea of getting Manny now though.

It's a pretty terrible idea that is wrapped up with some decent ideas that makes it seem okay. To be more clear, the concept involves the Jays spending a bunch of money on free agent upgrades. Then there is the huge deal with the Padres. If we are spending the money on those free agents that would make the team much better, but I still don't know why we would make that trade. It is a huge package for AGon who is coming up on free agency and Bell. In other words the team is better and if we are spending another $45$ million then it would make us competitive, but why not just spend the money and bring in new players without giving up two key pieces of our future.

ah nuts
10-30-2010, 01:51 AM
trading Snider:confused:

he appears to be on the verge to becoming a monster, a young cheaper, controllable monster.

Eagles4Lyfe
10-31-2010, 11:25 AM
Are you guys seeing the main forum?? Quentin and possibly something for rasmus..
Holy cow a 28 RF'er who really has been injured last couple years.. Surely we can beat that no??

T.O. Fan
10-31-2010, 01:58 PM
Luke Adams, M L B T R
There is some doubt about whether Yankees prospect Jesus Montero will be able to handle a major league pitching staff. A "Yankee insider" tells Cafardo that he thinks Montero could be used in a big trade this winter, with Austin Romine waiting in the wings as a potential long-term backstop.

I wonder what it would take for the Jays to land Montero, if at all possible. Obviously the asking price would be high.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=sa329317&position=C/DH

He could potentially play 1B or DH.

town123
10-31-2010, 04:50 PM
Are you guys seeing the main forum?? Quentin and possibly something for rasmus..
Holy cow a 28 RF'er who really has been injured last couple years.. Surely we can beat that no??

LOL, you're not checking out the Cards forum that's for sure. They want Romero +

town123
10-31-2010, 04:52 PM
I wonder what it would take for the Jays to land Montero, if at all possible. Obviously the asking price would be high.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=sa329317&position=C/DH

He could potentially play 1B or DH.

Would you trade Cecil and D'arnaud for Montero and Gardner?
Would the Spankees do that deal?

jaysalltheway89
10-31-2010, 06:39 PM
as much i like cecil and his potential thats a deal the jays would do. It fills 2 key holes for us, that is if montero can play first. I dono if yankees do it tho.

Kenny Powders
10-31-2010, 07:35 PM
Would you trade Cecil and D'arnaud for Montero and Gardner?
Would the Spankees do that deal?

I don't think the Yankees would be too warm to the idea. I would say any deal starts with Kyle Drabek.

GNick
11-02-2010, 08:30 AM
Would you trade Cecil and D'arnaud for Montero and Gardner?
Would the Spankees do that deal?

At first I said no...because it is tough to give up Cecil who will be an Ace someday if not now. Cecil has potential to be a Cliff Lee type. Hard to give him up for sure. But after thinking about it....I have to make the trade. It answers two glaring holes we have. Going by Yankee fans Montero will not be able to handle everyday catching but would fit in nicely given our 1b situation for 2011. Gardner is an on base machine and what we need at top of lineup. Bautista would be our 3b and Lind either traded or DH according if we sign Ramirez or not.

Yanks will no doubt sign Crawford to replace Gardner. Cecil gives them an Ace behind CC. Great trade idea for both teams involved.

dunedinjays
11-02-2010, 11:00 AM
At first I said no...because it is tough to give up Cecil who will be an Ace someday if not now. Cecil has potential to be a Cliff Lee type. Hard to give him up for sure. But after thinking about it....I have to make the trade. It answers two glaring holes we have. Going by Yankee fans Montero will not be able to handle everyday catching but would fit in nicely given our 1b situation for 2011. Gardner is an on base machine and what we need at top of lineup. Bautista would be our 3b and Lind either traded or DH according if we sign Ramirez or not.

Yanks will no doubt sign Crawford to replace Gardner. Cecil gives them an Ace behind CC. Great trade idea for both teams involved.

Im not sure if the yankees would do that trade though

GNick
11-02-2010, 12:45 PM
Im not sure if the yankees would do that trade though

After thinking a little more, I can't make this trade. Hard to trade Cecil. It is a great trade idea but not one I am sure either team could make.

I see another Matt Laporta/CC Sabathia type trade? Montero could be another Laporta. Laporta suppose to be the next great bat, been a disappointment while Sabathia has thrived. Cecil will win between 16-20 games next year and make around league minimum.

BIGdanielBABY
11-02-2010, 09:56 PM
After thinking a little more, I can't make this trade. Hard to trade Cecil. It is a great trade idea but not one I am sure either team could make.

I see another Matt Laporta/CC Sabathia type trade? Montero could be another Laporta. Laporta suppose to be the next great bat, been a disappointment while Sabathia has thrived. Cecil will win between 16-20 games next year and make around league minimum.

It's a tempting trade as well, but like you I may have to pass. I personally don't care much about d'arnaud, but I have been a big fan of cecil since he was drafted. I don't think he'll be an ace, but I strongly believe he'll be a very solid pitcher for our rotation.

GNick
11-03-2010, 08:50 AM
Cecil has so much upside, he won 15 games as a 24 year old. He had some great games, when he is on he is dominate. Needs a little maturing to be more consistent, he should be an annual 16-18 winner.

Montero if he can't catch everyday loses a lot of his value. Basically getting a bat but how good? About 50/50 chance he lives up to billing.

Pride
11-03-2010, 07:00 PM
Cecil has so much upside, he won 15 games as a 24 year old. He had some great games, when he is on he is dominate. Needs a little maturing to be more consistent, he should be an annual 16-18 winner.

Montero if he can't catch everyday loses a lot of his value. Basically getting a bat but how good? About 50/50 chance he lives up to billing.

Not really, most people do not expect Montero to remain at the catcher position. He's pretty much bound for 1st or DH. His bat is very good. He could bat .320 and provide plus plus power.

GNick
11-04-2010, 03:06 AM
Would you trade Cecil to Yankees for Gardner and Joba Chamberlain? Just an idea not sure if it is in leftfield or good trade. Yankees need starting pitching and being young and under their control for 4 more seasons give Cecil high value. Jays have always like Joba and he would sure up our bullpen. Gardner is the idea lead off hitter and on base guy we need.

Mark Rzep pitched well in Sept. and in AFL, recovering well from his broken hand in spring. Drabek is also close to making rotation. Both could replace Cecil as 4th starter

statquo
11-04-2010, 03:34 AM
No we're not trading Brett Cecil. Even floating the idea of trading Brett Cecil offends me.

GNick
11-04-2010, 10:18 AM
Sorry to offend anyone. Just an idea tossed out there.

With 4 young starters and 3 more close(Marck Rzep, Stewart and Drabek), may give us an opportunity to deal one for a 2 components we need elsewhere.

ah nuts
11-04-2010, 11:39 AM
Sorry to offend anyone. Just an idea tossed out there.

With 4 young starters and 3 more close(Marck Rzep, Stewart and Drabek), may give us an opportunity to deal one for a 2 components we need elsewhere.

don't forget litsch - he was one of the MLB top pitchers after the all star break in 2008. I'm not ready to forget that - yet. It could be a whole new game with Farrell. IMO - this guy just needs some confidence to be excellent #3.

bartron_44
11-04-2010, 11:40 AM
I am not totally against trading Cecil, but I am totally against trading him to the Yankees to try and make them better in any shape or fashion....

Gardner and Montero is the more tempting deal imo though. The kid hit .289 with a .353 OBP, 21 HR's and 34 2B's in 504 PA's (453 AB's) at AAA last year.......and oh yeah, he's only 20!!!!

dunedinjays
11-04-2010, 12:13 PM
don't forget litsch - he was one of the MLB top pitchers after the all star break in 2008. I'm not ready to forget that - yet. It could be a whole new game with Farrell. IMO - this guy just needs some confidence to be excellent #3.

Don't forget Brian Tallet as well. He is an effective back of the rotation starter

BlueJayCarter
11-04-2010, 01:03 PM
Don't forget Brian Tallet as well. He is an effective back of the rotation starter

Bull***. I don't want to hear the name Tallet on these Blue Jays forums or see him in a Blue Jay uniform for the rest of his MLB career.

He is worthless.

miller74
11-04-2010, 01:05 PM
When does free agency start?

BlueJayCarter
11-04-2010, 01:08 PM
When does free agency start?

Well you offer arbitration to eligble players for the first five days after the WS. And then I think free agency starts around the 12 or 15 of November isn't it?

othunder
11-04-2010, 04:29 PM
Hill, Stewart and Thames for Rasmus

othunder
11-04-2010, 04:30 PM
Fill 2b with Canadian Brett Lawrie from brewers for Zep

dunedinjays
11-04-2010, 05:05 PM
Fill 2b with Canadian Brett Lawrie from brewers for Zep

Yeah, that only happens in dreams. probably couldnt even do that trade in mlb 2k11 even with trade restrictions off

BlueJayCarter
11-04-2010, 05:09 PM
[QUOTE=othunder;15444486]Hill, Stewart and Thames for Rasmus[/QUOTE

I DON'T THINK SO.

2009mvp
11-04-2010, 05:30 PM
[QUOTE=othunder;15444486]Hill, Stewart and Thames for Rasmus[/QUOTE

I DON'T THINK SO.

Because...? I think that's one of the few trade proposals posted here that are actually 'fair,' though I don't think the Cards want any part of Hill's contract.

othunder
11-04-2010, 05:31 PM
Yeah, that only happens in dreams. probably couldnt even do that trade in mlb 2k11 even with trade restrictions off

Zep has pitched really well in his rookie year and from the start of September this year and is carrying that good pitching into the AFL. he would be very good in the NL central. it could happen

othunder
11-04-2010, 05:36 PM
[QUOTE=othunder;15444486]Hill, Stewart and Thames for Rasmus[/QUOTE

I DON'T THINK SO.


how come? this trade is still a steal for the Jays. To be honest Thames is a fringe prospect and the Jays would have to give up something more to get this done.

dunedinjays
11-04-2010, 06:21 PM
Zep has pitched really well in his rookie year and from the start of September this year and is carrying that good pitching into the AFL. he would be very good in the NL central. it could happen

Lawrie is the brewers best prospect right now. No offense, but their not going to trade him for a guy that projects at best to be a #4/5 starter

dunedinjays
11-04-2010, 06:22 PM
[QUOTE=BlueJayCarter;15444856]


how come? this trade is still a steal for the Jays. To be honest Thames is a fringe prospect and the Jays would have to give up something more to get this done.

Thats the problem. Its a steal for the Jays and thats why the Cards wont do it

dunedinjays
11-04-2010, 06:24 PM
[QUOTE=BlueJayCarter;15444856]


how come? this trade is still a steal for the Jays. To be honest Thames is a fringe prospect and the Jays would have to give up something more to get this done.

I agree.

othunder
11-04-2010, 07:02 PM
Lawrie is the brewers best prospect right now. No offense, but their not going to trade him for a guy that projects at best to be a #4/5 starter


Brewers are desperate for pitching, and hes blocked by Weeks who had a good season this year.

wamco
11-05-2010, 07:19 AM
why would yanks want D'?

If he didn't come over in the halladay trade, noone would ever speak of him.

lorneg34
11-05-2010, 08:03 AM
Blue jays just traded for catcher miguel Olivo from Colorado for player to be named later and cash!?! What does this Neman for JPA?
Now we have Molina/Olivo/JPA
Does that mean no Buck??

GNick
11-05-2010, 09:53 AM
Would you guys be open to bringing Orlando Hudson? Before anybody explodes on me, I mean moving Hill to 3b not as a bench player or anything.

We don't have to give up anything to acquire Hudson. Gives us a Gold Glove at 2b and lifetime .350 OBP, two things AA will be looking at. Hudson should make around 4-5 million. He would be good for the clubhouse, good friends with Wells and a few of the others.

mike_noodles
11-05-2010, 11:04 AM
Blue jays just traded for catcher miguel Olivo from Colorado for player to be named later and cash!?! What does this Neman for JPA?
Now we have Molina/Olivo/JPA
Does that mean no Buck??

Means nothing, he will not be with the club next year, they just want the compensation pick when somebody else signs him.

mike_noodles
11-05-2010, 11:05 AM
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I think Papelbon might be gettable this off season, with the emergence of Daniel Bard in the pen for the Sox. I would think one top level spec and a couple of mid level specs would be able to get the deal done.

B2B
11-07-2010, 04:04 PM
{Herchavera + JPA + Gose} for {Rasmus}

boilerguy2412
11-07-2010, 06:08 PM
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I think Papelbon might be gettable this off season, with the emergence of Daniel Bard in the pen for the Sox. I would think one top level spec and a couple of mid level specs would be able to get the deal done.

You can't overpay for closers you just can't the only way i would want him is if we got him for real cheap.

StayOnBoard
11-07-2010, 06:25 PM
{Herchavera + JPA + Gose} for {Rasmus}

No way - Rasmus is not worth that kind of asking price!!

I would be royally pissed if we traded those 3 guys for Rasmus... way, way too much.

StayOnBoard
11-07-2010, 06:28 PM
I am not totally against trading Cecil, but I am totally against trading him to the Yankees to try and make them better in any shape or fashion....

Gardner and Montero is the more tempting deal imo though. The kid hit .289 with a .353 OBP, 21 HR's and 34 2B's in 504 PA's (453 AB's) at AAA last year.......and oh yeah, he's only 20!!!!

I would trade Cecil for Gardner and Montero. We have lots of good pitchers - and Gardner + Montero would fill two holes for one player.

Cecil is a great pitcher though... but for that kind of deal, you really have to think about pulling the trigger.


Don't forget Brian Tallet as well. He is an effective back of the rotation starter

Tallet is horrible... he should be no where near the rotation.

othunder
11-07-2010, 06:45 PM
{Herchavera + JPA + Gose} for {Rasmus}


That would probably get it done.

Although Rasmus would be a great get. I would prefer the Jays to after a 3b its a bigger need at the moment and there is no internal fix in the near future. Sweeney is the best prospect at the 3b position in the Jays system. If AA were some how able to get Ryan Zimmerman it would make me the happiest Jays fan ever.

this is just me and ill probably get ripped in this post for what i am going to suggest but i would put together a package of:

Marcum, Hill, Jenkins and a Prospect like Thames for Zimmerman

is it a lot to give up? yes. but to fill a premium position foe the next 6-10 years is a price that I would be willing to pay.

StayOnBoard
11-07-2010, 06:48 PM
That would probably get it done.

Although Rasmus would be a great get. I would prefer the Jays to after a 3b its a bigger need at the moment and there is no internal fix in the near future. Sweeney is the best prospect at the 3b position in the Jays system. If AA were some how able to get Ryan Zimmerman it would make me the happiest Jays fan ever.

this is just me and ill probably get ripped in this post for what i am going to suggest but i would put together a package of:

Marcum, Hill, Jenkins and a Prospect like Thames for Zimmerman

is it a lot to give up? yes. but to fill a premium position foe the next 6-10 years is a price that I would be willing to pay.

I'd probably do it... Marcum is the pitcher I'd trade first (due to age and arb years) and Hill while good is replaceable.

dunedinjays
11-07-2010, 07:46 PM
That would probably get it done.

Although Rasmus would be a great get. I would prefer the Jays to after a 3b its a bigger need at the moment and there is no internal fix in the near future. Sweeney is the best prospect at the 3b position in the Jays system. If AA were some how able to get Ryan Zimmerman it would make me the happiest Jays fan ever.

this is just me and ill probably get ripped in this post for what i am going to suggest but i would put together a package of:

Marcum, Hill, Jenkins and a Prospect like Thames for Zimmerman

is it a lot to give up? yes. but to fill a premium position foe the next 6-10 years is a price that I would be willing to pay.

id do that trade in a heartbeat. Thats more quantity than quality. I doubt nationals will trade zimmerman though

2009mvp
11-07-2010, 09:01 PM
I think some people might be overstating Hill's trade value. He's got some very expensive option years on his contract, otherwise he's a free agent at the end of the year. Just a lot of questions to be giving up anything of significance for.

edgarfed
11-09-2010, 01:43 AM
trade for ichiro. He's the exact piece we need

wamco
11-09-2010, 02:06 PM
Agreed on Hill. He might find himself out of his contract if he puts up another stinker this year thanks to the sweet options on the deal

GNick
11-09-2010, 03:35 PM
Zimmerman or Rasmus?

LechWalesa
11-09-2010, 06:03 PM
The longer this thread continues the less I want Rasmus on this team.

bartron_44
11-10-2010, 10:32 AM
I love the idea of Zimmerman, but I think I would rather just shell out the money and go after Beltre as a FA. He should fill the gap until our young guys like hech and Sweeney are ready, and we wouldn't have to trade 4 guys to get him.


I highly doubt Washington gives up on Zimmerman for any package. I would imagine they want him there for when Harper and Strasburg are ready in 2 years..

I would love to pry Dunn out of Washington though to be our new 1B. He has a lifetime OPS against lefties over .800, and he is one of the most consistent sluggers in baseball over the past 7 or 8 years.. He may not hit for an extremly high average, but he is a great cleanup hitter who knows how to drive in runs AND get on base.....

jaysnraptors44
11-10-2010, 08:17 PM
trade for Prince Fielder i heard milwaukee is interested for brett cecil . Trade him and some prospects and that should get it done

T.O. Fan
11-10-2010, 08:27 PM
Dejesus would have been a decent leadoff option.

StayOnBoard
11-10-2010, 09:02 PM
Dejesus would have been a decent leadoff option.

I agree - but the A's didn't exactly get him for free. They gave up a nice young pitcher, so Im very curious what Toronto might have offered the Royals in exchange.

A package around Brett Cecil for Fielder would be pretty nice.... but only if we could sign him to an extension.

T.O. Fan
11-10-2010, 09:11 PM
Honestly, of all the Jays starters Cecil is the guy I'd prefer to keep. He's a horse.

Alvaro
11-11-2010, 02:02 AM
Honestly, of all the Jays starters Cecil is the guy I'd prefer to keep. He's a horse.

Absolutely.

I always felt as though he flew under the radar, he has very good control and stays out of the big inning.

The_Jet11
11-11-2010, 02:13 AM
There were many times last season where Cecil would work himself into a jam, only to work his way right back out of it. He often had high pitch counts, but I think he's definitely going to be a big part of the rotation, if the Jays are to compete in the near future.

It would be cool to see him traded for Fielder however, if for no other reason than the next day's Newspaper headlines.

"Cecil, Fielder; Jays and Brew Crew fashion a deal"

Prince would be King in T.O. and would give our line-up the 4-hole legitimacy it has lacked since the departure of King Carlos!

BlueJayFanDan
11-11-2010, 03:06 AM
I am just curious because maybe I am missing something here. What is everyones infatuation with Colby Rasmus? I just don't know what everyone is raving about with him. I know he is young and still developing but he strikes out a lot, he probably will be a career .280 hitter approx. which isn't amazing by any means, he has power but not like amazing 40 HR per season power. Maybe I am just missing something. I dunno. I just am not seeing it. Would I like him on our team? Of course, he would be a nice addition to our young squad. But to say you wanna give up a few of our top prospects for this guy is just what I am not seeing.

GNick
11-11-2010, 04:29 AM
I am just curious because maybe I am missing something here. What is everyones infatuation with Colby Rasmus? I just don't know what everyone is raving about with him. I know he is young and still developing but he strikes out a lot, he probably will be a career .280 hitter approx. which isn't amazing by any means, he has power but not like amazing 40 HR per season power. Maybe I am just missing something. I dunno. I just am not seeing it. Would I like him on our team? Of course, he would be a nice addition to our young squad. But to say you wanna give up a few of our top prospects for this guy is just what I am not seeing.

Potential, 23 year old with .860 OPS, decent glove with decent speed. But like you think Rasmus is a bit overrated. Looking at how good a Matt Kemp looked a year ago?

BlueJayFanDan
11-11-2010, 05:37 AM
Potential, 23 year old with .860 OPS, decent glove with decent speed. But like you think Rasmus is a bit overrated. Looking at how good a Matt Kemp looked a year ago?

I'm not saying he is overrated. He is only 23. He can and likely will get better. The thing is I am not sure I see his potential the way some others do.

2009mvp
11-11-2010, 05:44 AM
^^Those "some others" happen to be respected big league scouts/dudes with scouting backgrounds. Rasmus has a middle of the order bat with plus defense at a premium position, a combination that I'm not sure anyone in the entire Jays system possesses.

T.O. Fan
11-11-2010, 07:25 AM
There were many times last season where Cecil would work himself into a jam, only to work his way right back out of it. He often had high pitch counts, but I think he's definitely going to be a big part of the rotation, if the Jays are to compete in the near future.

It would be cool to see him traded for Fielder however, if for no other reason than the next day's Newspaper headlines.

"Cecil, Fielder; Jays and Brew Crew fashion a deal"

Prince would be King in T.O. and would give our line-up the 4-hole legitimacy it has lacked since the departure of King Carlos!

I flat out would not trade Cecil for Fielder.

Marcum probably, Cecil no.

I'm really not a huge fan of Fielder. He's in horrible shape to say the least and he's a poor defender who's also set to become a free agent. That said, he can mash and I believe will be a type A (two comp picks).

If I had to make a deal for Fielder I would be pushing something along the lines of Marcum, AJ Jimenez and try to get away with Rzep instead of Stewart for Fielder and Brett Lawrie.

BlueJayFanDan
11-11-2010, 01:34 PM
^^Those "some others" happen to be respected big league scouts/dudes with scouting backgrounds. Rasmus has a middle of the order bat with plus defense at a premium position, a combination that I'm not sure anyone in the entire Jays system possesses.

Fair enough. I was just asking because I know he was highly touted when he was drafted and between the minors and so far in the majors I have never really seen why scouts felt he was so impressive. I know he has some speed and good defense and solid power but I just have never seen the hype. Who knows. This is why I am not a scout though.

B2theRY
11-11-2010, 02:07 PM
Jays have inquired about availability of Royals RHP Zack Greinke and OF Alex Gordon
about 1 hour ago via web

http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball

North Yorker
11-11-2010, 03:09 PM
Jays have inquired about availability of Royals RHP Zack Greinke and OF Alex Gordon
about 1 hour ago via web

http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball

Greinke would cost too much imo.

Gordon is intriguing if they see him fitting in at 3B, but even if they acquire him and he doesn't play well at 3rd, we could always flip him to the OF and put Bautista there.

If he could be had for a reasonable price then I would be ok giving him a shot. It would be similar to the Morrow deal last year.

Twitchy
11-11-2010, 03:46 PM
Fair enough. I was just asking because I know he was highly touted when he was drafted and between the minors and so far in the majors I have never really seen why scouts felt he was so impressive. I know he has some speed and good defense and solid power but I just have never seen the hype. Who knows. This is why I am not a scout though.

Rasmus had the highest OPS of any CF this season. That's pretty impressive. Kid shows a ton of power and good on base skills. His defense is pretty solid too.

He's worth all the praise he's been getting so far.

B2theRY
11-11-2010, 05:28 PM
id love to get greinke and gordon

i believe the royals moved gordon to the OF and im not sure why.

bomber0104
11-12-2010, 11:43 PM
The Giants are not too happy with Pablo Sandoval's conditioning last year... now thats a guy i'd be interested in.

He can play C, 1B, and some 3rd. Classic buy low candidate. AA will be all over it

BlueJayFanDan
11-12-2010, 11:45 PM
The Giants are not too happy with Pablo Sandoval's conditioning last year... now thats a guy i'd be interested in.

He can play C, 1B, and some 3rd. Classic buy low candidate. AA will be all over it

Seems possible.

wamco
11-13-2010, 10:38 AM
^^Those "some others" happen to be respected big league scouts/dudes with scouting backgrounds. Rasmus has a middle of the order bat with plus defense at a premium position, a combination that I'm not sure anyone in the entire Jays system possesses.

agree with murtaugh (lethal weapon 5) on this one

bomber0104
11-15-2010, 10:04 PM
Rumor has it that the Brewers are willing to deal Brett Lawrie for pitching and are in talks with San Diego. I have been a fan of this guy ever since he went a pick before us in the draft and we ended up taking Cooper. The guy has legit power and very good speed and can play 2B if we end up not picking Hill's option

I would call up the Brewers and start by offering Stewart and perhaps a lower prospect like Emaus

T.O. Fan
11-16-2010, 12:34 AM
Rumor has it that the Brewers are willing to deal Brett Lawrie for pitching and are in talks with San Diego. I have been a fan of this guy ever since he went a pick before us in the draft and we ended up taking Cooper. The guy has legit power and very good speed and can play 2B if we end up not picking Hill's option

I would call up the Brewers and start by offering Stewart and perhaps a lower prospect like Emaus

This is basically what I've posted on this an another thread.

Someone else countered with Marcum instead of Stewart.

bomber0104
11-16-2010, 12:38 PM
This is basically what I've posted on this an another thread.

Someone else countered with Marcum instead of Stewart.

I still don't think that Marcum is cut for pitching in the AL East but he does pitch amazing against everyone else.. I wouldn't mind the trade but I think Marcum has way more value to us than Stewart who is still not a sure thing as a starter

heusy_79
11-16-2010, 02:14 PM
I've read speculation that the Dodgers are open to trading James Loney, and I think that the Jays should be in on this. He's a left handed bat at a position of need who hits more for average than power. He plays great D at first and is coming off an off-year and is due a raise so his value isn't at its peak.

2009mvp
11-16-2010, 02:51 PM
^^He sucks though. He's Overbay-lite, with even less power and worse plate discipline. Grass isn't always greener on the other side.

StayOnBoard
11-16-2010, 02:57 PM
^^He sucks though. He's Overbay-lite, with even less power and worse plate discipline. Grass isn't always greener on the other side.

I wouldn't say he sucks, but I know where your coming from. He isn't a great hitter but he's still pretty young if Im not mistaken? He still could be a valuable asset assuming what we would have to give up. A few mid-level prospects might get it done.

bartron_44
11-16-2010, 03:48 PM
What about going after Chris Carter from the A's. He is only 23 (will be 24 in December) and he was like 6 points from an OPS of .900 or better 4 years in a row, so he has mashed at every level along the way.

Not sure how good his glove is, but he was unbelievable in AA in 2009. He looks like a potential mashing 1st baseman.

broncosfan_101
11-16-2010, 03:55 PM
The only way I'd let Loney on the field for us is if I get a guarantee that he's '2007 Loney', let alone actually giving anything up for him. That's the only version of him that was worth anything. No way I'd even consider giving up something of value for him.

Would you seriously give up a few mid-level specs for a soon-to-be 26 year old 1B who has slugged ~.410 over the last 3 years? That's insane. I would pick him up off waivers, that's about it.

2009mvp
11-16-2010, 04:37 PM
I wouldn't say he sucks, but I know where your coming from. He isn't a great hitter but he's still pretty young if Im not mistaken? He still could be a valuable asset assuming what we would have to give up. A few mid-level prospects might get it done.

He's 26, and been in the league for over 4 seasons now. He is what he is at this point, and that is one of the worst everyday first baseman in the game. He's got the kind of bat that might play as a middle infielder or a CF, but certainly not as a first baseman.

wowzman
11-16-2010, 05:46 PM
SI's take on some possible deals for players that have been mentioned for the Jays to look at.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tom_verducci/11/16/non.tender.free.agents/index.html?eref=sihp


He's 26, and been in the league for over 4 seasons now. He is what he is at this point, and that is one of the worst everyday first baseman in the game. He's got the kind of bat that might play as a middle infielder or a CF, but certainly not as a first baseman.


2. James Loney. The Dodgers' ownership situation has so complicated the team's planning that there is some talk Loney might be non-tendered. I doubt it. Loney has enough value that either he will go to arbitration and command about $6 million, or the Dodgers will trade him.

Loney represents a good example of the chance to buy low on a player. His batting average, slugging and OPS have dropped three straight years. Teams generally like to see more power out of first base; Loney never has hit more than 15 home runs in a season. But Loney will be just 26 on Opening Day this year and is a veteran of almost 2,500 major league plate appearances.

Here's what so encouraging about the thought of getting Loney out of Dodger Stadium and experiencing a breakout season: He hit 41 doubles last year and has been a much better hitter in his career on the road (.307 with a .854 OPS) than at home (.268 with a .711 OPS). He should interest the Rays, Jays, Nationals and Diamondbacks.


I still don't think that Marcum is cut for pitching in the AL East but he does pitch amazing against everyone else.. I wouldn't mind the trade but I think Marcum has way more value to us than Stewart who is still not a sure thing as a starter


3. Shaun Marcum. All the way back from Tommy John surgery, Marcum threw 195 1/3 innings last year out of the AL East with a 3.64 ERA. Do you know how many other guys in their 20s managed to do that over the previous three seasons? Just four. Here is the complete list:

1. CC Sabathia (2009-10)

2. Jon Lester (2008-10)

3. James Shields (2008)

4. David Price (2010)

5. Shaun Marcum (2010)

I like young pitchers who have done it in the AL East, the Camp Lejeune of pitching. But Marcum remains a big part of Toronto's immediate future, and it would likely take a blockbuster deal (Zach Greinke?) to pry him loose.

Thats some fine company.


If the jays do get Uggla the smart play would be to put Uggla at third where you do not need a player with great range. And since range is the problem with Uggla, a move to third base seems like the logical choice.


6. Dan Uggla. Good luck trying to find reliable righthanded power. Here is a rare such commodity. Over the past five seasons, Albert Pujols is the only NL righthanded hitter to hit more home runs than Uggla. And in those five seasons Uggla has hit between 27 and 33 homers, driven in between 88 and 105 runs and played between 146 and 159 games every year.

Here are the major league home run leaders from 2006-10 among righthanded hitters:


Rank Player HRs
1 Albert Pujols 207
2 Alex Rodriguez 184
3 Miguel Cabrera 169
4 Paul Konerko 155
5 Dan Uggla 154

Uggla can bolt as a free agent after next season and already rejected a four-year, $48 million extension, thus the trade talk. I believe the Marlins are close enough to contending that they should keep Uggla at least through July to see where they stand. But they will take offers now on a guy who could remain at second base or, as some clubs project, slide to third or the outfield -- which is why he is a fit for many clubs.

wowzman
11-16-2010, 05:55 PM
He's 26, and been in the league for over 4 seasons now. He is what he is at this point, and that is one of the worst everyday first baseman in the game. He's got the kind of bat that might play as a middle infielder or a CF, but certainly not as a first baseman.

Fangraphs take on Loney.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/loneys-trade-value/


That is why it makes perfect sense for the Dodgers to attempt to replace Loney, but also perfect sense for other teams to avoid Loney.

bomber0104
11-16-2010, 06:40 PM
Yeah a big no thanks to Loney. like someone already said, he is Overbay light which is sad for a 1B.

bartron_44
11-16-2010, 07:17 PM
well Uggla appears to have landed in Atlanta for next to nothing....so there goea that idea. I also hope AA stays away from Loney.

I think some people tend to under value how well Marcum pitched this year. To throw almost 200 innings after just having TJ surgery was really remarkable imo. Next year he should only have more arm strength, and I think he will have a chance to win 16+ games if our bullpen problems are solved.

He is still our ace, and some people seem to think he should be just thrown in on trades for 1 young position player. Look at the company he is in in that article above. Thats pretty much the who's who of the American league East. If he wouldn't have gotten hurt in 2008, he probably would have been on that list 3 times by the time he was 28. Heck, when he first went out to rest his elbow in late June in 2008, he was pitching like our ace on the same staff as Roy Halladay. He had an ERA of 2.65 with 12 "quality starts" out of 15 (and one of those non QS's was a one inning start where he actually struck out the side but didn't continue for some reason).

He also appears to be the leader of our 4 headed monster rotation (hopefully 5 headed monster this year with Drabek), and seems to lead with a great example. He should not be "thrown in" on any deal. If he is traded. he better be the main piece in the trade leaving Toronto for a very, very good player in a position of need.

Eagles4Lyfe
11-16-2010, 07:37 PM
man marcum is worth that much on the market ehh wow, that is pretty amazing to hear i dont even know how to react to that, we can make a killing of trading him

othunder
11-17-2010, 05:09 PM
i would like the Jays to trade for Denard Span with maybe a package staring with Aaron Hill. Trade for David Wright ( hopefully he rebounds from down year avg, obp) with a package around Jose Bautista (i am not a believer). and trade for Brett Lawrie with a package around Stewart.

Wells would slide over to Right with Span in center.

lineup:
1. Span CF
2. Escobar SS
3. Wright 3b
4. M. Ramirez DH
5. Lind 1b
6. Wells RF
7. Snider LF
8. Lawrie 2b
9. Arenciba C

broncosfan_101
11-17-2010, 05:21 PM
Minny's not trading Span until Hicks is ready, so you can forget about that. He's a .750 OPS hitter with good D in CF, plus they've got him on the cheap through 2014.

othunder
11-17-2010, 05:25 PM
they have Ben Revere Who is better Defensively and cheaper than Span.

othunder
11-17-2010, 05:32 PM
Ken Rosenthal twitter

"BlueJays on verge of getting Rajai Davis from #A's. Not sure of other players involved"

broncosfan_101
11-17-2010, 05:35 PM
Ken Rosenthal twitter

"BlueJays on verge of getting Rajai Davis from #A's. Not sure of other players involved"

Whoa. I guess Bautista is moving to 3B full time...:(

Kelly Gruber
11-17-2010, 05:36 PM
Rajai Davis eh? Is he a better CFer than Wells defensively? A lead-off type though if I remember correctly.

DiPasquale7
11-17-2010, 05:39 PM
Whoa. I guess Bautista is moving to 3B full time...:(

Maybe... I think Bautista would be great as a 1B though... we should still try and trade for a 3B

othunder
11-17-2010, 05:42 PM
i think davis will be the 4th outfielder or even DH he's not the impact bat that would move Bautista to 3b

broncosfan_101
11-17-2010, 05:44 PM
Rajai Davis eh? Is he a better CFer than Wells defensively? A lead-off type though if I remember correctly.

If we're getting 2009 Rajai Davis, he's a leadoff type. Seeing as we're probably getting something closer to the 2010 version, not so much. Maybe he was injured last year though, since both his hitting and fielding took a pretty significant nosedive (although his base-stealing didn't, meaning that's probably not the case).

It's just half a year of defensive data though, and he had shown previously to be a good defender in CF, so maybe that's where he's playing? I doubt it, but we can dream...

Kenny Powders
11-17-2010, 05:50 PM
According to the site we aren't allowed the mention, Trystan Magnuson is one of the players heading back.

lorneg34
11-17-2010, 05:52 PM
He has been a base stealing machine the last 2 seasons and it would finally give us a threat on te base path since Shannon Stewart! I love it because he would come cheap.
Davis CF
Wells LF
Snyder RF
Lind 1B
Bautista 3B
I love it personally. And his B.A the last two years would be what? Top 1-2 on the jays

Jamiecballer
11-17-2010, 07:33 PM
wow, what am i missing here? he can steal bases, he just can't get on them...

The_Jet11
11-17-2010, 07:43 PM
way to post the same joke in two threads Jaime aha

lorneg34
11-17-2010, 10:03 PM
I'm just wondering what everyone thinks of hoffpauer from the cubs. He was just released and can be a very cheap option at 1B with great upside power potential......I mean he was suppose to be a stud and giving him time with Duane Murphy, I think he can do wonders....any opinions?

The_Jet11
11-17-2010, 10:09 PM
Apparently nobody really views Hoffpauir as that beneficial.

He's going to Japan next season.

http://twitter.com/CarrieMuskat/status/4992214677590016

Guess that rules him out...

DiPasquale7
11-18-2010, 12:30 AM
Pipe dream offseason anyone?

Sign Cliff Lee

Marcum + Gose + Reyes for Rasmus

Drabek + Hech + JPA + Rzep for Upton

Stewart + Lind + Mills for Zimmerman

Sanchez + Perez + McGuire + Litsch for Greinke

C - D'Arnaud
1B - Bautista
2B - Hill
SS - Escobar
3B - Zimmerman
RF - Upton
CF - Rasmus
LF - Wells
DH - Snider

Lee
Greinke
Morrow
Romero
Cecil

:D These pipe dreams sure are fun!

koreancabbage
11-18-2010, 01:25 AM
Pipe dream offseason anyone?

Sign Cliff Lee

Marcum + Gose + Reyes for Rasmus

Drabek + Hech + JPA + Rzep for Upton

Stewart + Lind + Mills for Zimmerman

Sanchez + Perez + McGuire + Litsch for Greinke

C - D'Arnaud
1B - Bautista
2B - Hill
SS - Escobar
3B - Zimmerman
RF - Upton
CF - Rasmus
LF - Wells
DH - Snider

Lee
Greinke
Morrow
Romero
Cecil

:D These pipe dreams sure are fun!

and totally forgo our already weak farm system once again. If we don't win, this would cost us another 10 years and we'd be like the leafs once again...losers with no farm system.

signing Lee outright would be amazing. and do wonders for our depth

lorneg34
11-18-2010, 09:11 AM
I'm just curious as to who the jays are most likely to sign of the big name FA's or by way of trade.
Put these players in order of who you think the jays can get and might get
1. Manny Ramirez
2. Zack greinke
3. Adam Dunn
4. Rasmus
5. Adrian Beltre
6. Brandon Webb
7. Ty wiggington
8. Ace up AA's sleeve
My order would be 1,4,3,2,7,8,6,5

Billyen
11-18-2010, 09:20 AM
I don't know where all this manlove is coming from for Rasmus but, I'd like it to stop. He's had one decent, not great year yet everyone here wants to trade our top 3 prospects.

Billyen
11-18-2010, 09:27 AM
I like the Davis trade. AA trying to get things happening on the bases. Good for him.

I think we all agree that we need a splash of OBP too. Everyone's saying Dunn and that Manny guy...what's his name? 8-P

Thinking outside the box...What about a Daric Barton from the A's? Under the radar but the boy can take a walk and he's young. Looks good at first. Maybe Davis, Barton and then 3 HR guys and we can create some runs?

bomber0104
11-18-2010, 10:48 AM
I like the Davis trade. AA trying to get things happening on the bases. Good for him.

I think we all agree that we need a splash of OBP too. Everyone's saying Dunn and that Manny guy...what's his name? 8-P

Thinking outside the box...What about a Daric Barton from the A's? Under the radar but the boy can take a walk and he's young. Looks good at first. Maybe Davis, Barton and then 3 HR guys and we can create some runs?

you talk about the man love for Rasmus then you bring up Barton, a guy that barely cracked the Oakland A's. If Loney isn't enough of an Overbay clone for you, then Barton is your best shot.

Please

JaysHabs
11-18-2010, 11:47 AM
Trade VW, Marcum, prospects to KC for A. Gordon and Greinke. Sign Adam Dunn. Still need a closer and middle relief.

Davis - CF
Escobar - SS
Bautista - RF
Dunn - 1B
Lind - DH
Hill - 2B
Snider - LF
Gordon - 3B
Arencibia/Molina - Ca

Greinke
Romero
Morrow
Cecil
Drabek

Middle relief - closers, anyone have ideas? Purcey, Roenicke, Janssen, Camp.

B2B
11-18-2010, 11:56 AM
Trade VW, Marcum, prospects to KC for A. Gordon and Greinke. Sign Adam Dunn. Still need a closer and middle relief.

Davis - CF
Escobar - SS
Bautista - RF
Dunn - 1B
Lind - DH
Hill - 2B
Snider - LF
Gordon - 3B
Arencibia/Molina - Ca

Greinke
Romero
Morrow
Cecil
Drabek

Middle relief - closers, anyone have ideas? Purcey, Roenicke, Janssen, Camp.

KC wants Snider for Grienke

MLB TR

ĽA baseball official tells Danny Knobler of CBS Sports that he could see the Rangers, Brewers, and Blue Jays becoming involved in trade talks for Zack Greinke.

I believe with the addition of Davis, Snider will be included in a package for Grienke. Making Lind the 4th outfielder & Buatista the backup to Gordon at third.

If Gordon struggles, Davis can play right with either Lind/Gordon in left.

{Marcum, Snider, JPA, ?} for {Grienke, Gordon}

bluejays201112
11-18-2010, 11:57 AM
I'm just curious as to who the jays are most likely to sign of the big name FA's or by way of trade.
Put these players in order of who you think the jays can get and might get
1. Manny Ramirez
2. Zack greinke
3. Adam Dunn
4. Rasmus
5. Adrian Beltre
6. Brandon Webb
7. Ty wiggington
8. Ace up AA's sleeve
My order would be 1,4,3,2,7,8,6,5

Mine would be 1,8,7,2,3,4,6,5

bluejays201112
11-18-2010, 11:59 AM
KC wants Snider for Grienke

MLB TR

ĽA baseball official tells Danny Knobler of CBS Sports that he could see the Rangers, Brewers, and Blue Jays becoming involved in trade talks for Zack Greinke.

I believe with the addition of Davis, Snider will be included in a package for Grienke. Making Lind the 4th outfielder & Buatista the backup to Gordon at third.

If Gordon struggles, Davis can play right with either Lind/Gordon in left.

{Marcum, Snider, JPA, ?} for {Grienke, Gordon}

if they trade JPA then who would be our catcher? Now that Buck's gone I tkink that we need to keep JPA now

JaysHabs
11-18-2010, 12:03 PM
I really dont want to give up on Snider! So KC can keep Greinke, maybe the Jays can just go after Gordon to play 3B, with Davis coming off the bench, but 2 mid-level pitching prospects for a bench player doenst make sense, is Davis going to be traded again?

I believe Snider is going to be a .280-.300 ba with 25-30 hr and 80 -100 rbi depending on batting order.

JaysHabs
11-18-2010, 12:07 PM
and hey, if we can get Gordon to play third and sign Dunn for first, then I dont mind having a split of Molina/Arencibia behind the plate, Molina is money defensively and at calling a game, what more do you need out of 9 hole hitter .260, 10, 50 would be just fine.

B2B
11-18-2010, 12:19 PM
I really dont want to give up on Snider! So KC can keep Greinke, maybe the Jays can just go after Gordon to play 3B, with Davis coming off the bench, but 2 mid-level pitching prospects for a bench player doenst make sense, is Davis going to be traded again?

I believe Snider is going to be a .280-.300 ba with 25-30 hr and 80 -100 rbi depending on batting order.

It's easier to pickup 25-30 HR's via free agency than it is to pickup an Ace like Grienke. (Manny/Dunn)

If the team plays well this season I could see the Jays opening their wallet for Gonzalez/Fielder @ 1st next year.

If the team plays poorly they have the option to move Grienke & regain a valuable young piece, maybe at a position of greater need (CF/3B)?.

B2B
11-18-2010, 12:28 PM
if they trade JPA then who would be our catcher? Now that Buck's gone I tkink that we need to keep JPA now

Molina & (Varitek)? I kept reading he like Manny have interest in playing for the Jays manager & their is mutual interest.

LF Davis | CF Wells | RF Bautista

3B Gordon | SS Escobar | 2B Hill | 1B/DH Lind | DH Manny

C Molina/Varitek

Davis
Escobar
Manny/Bautista
Bautista/Manny
Wells
Lind
Hill
Gordon
Molina/Varitek

Grienke, Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2010, 12:55 PM
snider and marcum in a package alone is overpaying IMO for grienke and gordon alone, so we shouldn't be adding anything else to that..Second wasn't their an article saying marcum alone is worth grienke if were going to trade snider it better be for a young stud or in a deal for a guy like justin upton, not grienke and gordon i rather keep marcum in that case..

BlueJayCarter
11-18-2010, 01:15 PM
Agreed.

Giving up Snider for Greinke and Gordon is a pure waste. For a Justin Upton I would say yes.

I probably wouldn't want a deal for Greinke, Gordon or just Greinke unless it just costs a couple of specs. Any of our young pieces I would say no way.

TO to the CHI
11-18-2010, 01:28 PM
snider and marcum in a package alone is overpaying IMO for grienke and gordon alone, so we shouldn't be adding anything else to that..Second wasn't their an article saying marcum alone is worth grienke if were going to trade snider it better be for a young stud or in a deal for a guy like justin upton, not grienke and gordon i rather keep marcum in that case..

The article most certainly did not say that Greinke and Marcum have the same worth. Nor would anyone say or think that. The article said the Jays would have to be blown away to deal Marcum, and suggested that a deal for Greinke (where Marcum would be joined by other players) was that kind of deal.

Eagles4Lyfe
11-18-2010, 01:41 PM
Agreed.

Giving up Snider for Greinke and Gordon is a pure waste. For a Justin Upton I would say yes.

I probably wouldn't want a deal for Greinke, Gordon or just Greinke unless it just costs a couple of specs. Any of our young pieces I would say no way.
I agree i mean you can include marcum and whoever but not snider or drabek to that defeats the whole purpose.

The article most certainly did not say that Greinke and Marcum have the same worth. Nor would anyone say or think that. The article said the Jays would have to be blown away to deal Marcum, and suggested that a deal for Greinke (where Marcum would be joined by other players) was that kind of deal.

oh in that case ya i agree marcum and w.e but not marcum and snider together thats seriously overpaying. I mean grienke is good don't get me wrong but if you gave me an option of overpaying for him or just keeping marcum id take the keeping marcum. I mean how big of a difference is grienke to us anyways, his numbers against the AL east teams who he would have to face a lot of don't look that good anyways.

JaysHabs
11-18-2010, 01:44 PM
I regress, the more I think about it, why deal for Greinke, when imo the Jays the 4 are good and Cecil, Morrow and Romero will only be better next year. If Marcum stays where he is and Drabek gets the run support, I believe you have one of the strongest top 5 in the league. The Jays need to focus on a closer and relief pitching. Shore up 1B and 3B, so you can keep Bautista in RF (where he will lead the league in outfield assists), play Snider in LF (average Defence but + offence), and Wells is still capable.

SO if the Jays can pick up Alex Gordon, why not go after Fielder or Gonzalez now if Dunn isnt in the plans.

nearyG
11-18-2010, 03:06 PM
to jays: greinke, gordon
to royals: lind, jenkins, alvarez, darnaud

to jays: fielder
to brewers: vernon wells, kyle drabek

signings: manny, beltre

lineup:

cf rajai davis
2b aaron hill
rf jose bautista
1b prince fielder
dh manny ramirez
3b adrian beltre
lf travis snider
c jp arencebia
ss yunel escobar

bench: gordon, wise, mcdonald, molina

rotation: grienke-romero-marcum-cecil-morrow

T.O. Fan
11-18-2010, 08:50 PM
If the Jays are going to deal prospects away I would rather it be for guys like J. Upton and Rasmus than Grienke.

StayOnBoard
11-18-2010, 09:26 PM
If the Jays are going to deal prospects away I would rather it be for guys like J. Upton and Rasmus than Grienke.

Me too - mainly because we have strong pitching as it is. Grienke is a good talent though, as long as the price wasn't ridicules I wouldn't be upset if we end up with him.

Rochesta
11-19-2010, 12:19 AM
That one website said that trade market for Papelbon is weak, even though the Sox would be willing to kick in some money.

Should we be taking a look at this guy, despite his off year and high price? I figure that if he bounces back to even half of what he was, he could be a set up man at least. Of course if he bounces back completely we'd have at least a type A on our hands or a player we could extend out.

Why aren't we rumored to be after him?

Pride
11-19-2010, 01:31 AM
That one website said that trade market for Papelbon is weak, even though the Sox would be willing to kick in some money.

Should we be taking a look at this guy, despite his off year and high price? I figure that if he bounces back to even half of what he was, he could be a set up man at least. Of course if he bounces back completely we'd have at least a type A on our hands or a player we could extend out.

Why aren't we rumored to be after him?

It'll still take a more than desired package to get him. If we trade our prospects, I certainly hope the target isn't a relief pitcher.

wamco
11-19-2010, 05:14 PM
take the picks if he walks after the season.

2009mvp
11-19-2010, 06:00 PM
^^Fine, but you're still weighing Papelbon's '11 production+2 draft picks against the players/prospects it would take to acquire him plus whatever we'd spend the $10+M he'd make on otherwise. I tend to think the 10M and not seeing our guys go to/develop in Boston is a little more valuable than a closer who's not that great in the first place.

Billyen
11-20-2010, 01:00 AM
you talk about the man love for Rasmus then you bring up Barton, a guy that barely cracked the Oakland A's. If Loney isn't enough of an Overbay clone for you, then Barton is your best shot.

Please

Ouch. First of all try looking at some stats. Barton has been in the majors the past 3 years. He didn't just make the team. However, let's say he just did. Who cares? The only thing I care about is results. Not what the scouts or beat writers think. (I'm still waiting for all these professional talent evaluators to be right on Matt Wieters...because he's so...can't miss.) I was just putting Barton out there as a idea for a value trade but, now you've peeked my interest.

Currently everyone here wants to trade a third of our best prospects for Upton. I think he's a very good player but, hang on a sec. He's young, yes. I don't see 1 area were he's excelled in. Everyone here sees him as the second coming.

I'm NOT comparing Barton to Upton here but, let's look at the numbers anyway. Barton is only 2 years older than upton. They had the SAME avg. and OPS which is wild though Barton had more AB. Upton has more HR and SB but, Barton had a respectable numbers that he could improve on.

The one thing that caught my eye with him it isn't his 110 walks that was 2nd in MLB but, he had more walks stikeouts. Also, walks are the 1 stats that player don't streak with. HRs and hits yes but, players who walk alot usually do so for their career. Some of the greatest hitters of all time have more walks than SO. Pujols and Berkman come to mind. First ballet HOF's?

Please don't make Barton sound bad because you think so. BTW...I'd love to have the Overbay from 04-06 in my lineup. Of which Overbay never walked more than 81.

I'm just saying you could get Barton (if Billy even wanted to let him go) a hell of a lot cheaper than Upton and I think you'd be getting better value. Barton "could" be a OBP machine for years to come.

Billyen
11-20-2010, 01:11 AM
Am I the only one who's concerned about the pen? Releasing Camp doesn't make much sense. In AA we trust and all but, There's no one left with a ERA under 4 except Janssen and Hill. I hope we can pull a trade off as most the the FA seem a little on the old side and the good ones seem to be signing quickly.

The thing about Doc I miss is we had a starter and a reliever in one. 8-)

bomber0104
11-20-2010, 01:29 AM
Ouch. First of all try looking at some stats. Barton has been in the majors the past 3 years. He didn't just make the team. However, let's say he just did. Who cares? The only thing I care about is results. Not what the scouts or beat writers think. (I'm still waiting for all these professional talent evaluators to be right on Matt Wieters...because he's so...can't miss.) I was just putting Barton out there as a idea for a value trade but, now you've peeked my interest.

Currently everyone here wants to trade a third of our best prospects for Upton. I think he's a very good player but, hang on a sec. He's young, yes. I don't see 1 area were he's excelled in. Everyone here sees him as the second coming.

I'm NOT comparing Barton to Upton here but, let's look at the numbers anyway. Barton is only 2 years older than upton. They had the SAME avg. and OPS which is wild though Barton had more AB. Upton has more HR and SB but, Barton had a respectable numbers that he could improve on.

The one thing that caught my eye with him it isn't his 110 walks that was 2nd in MLB but, he had more walks stikeouts. Also, walks are the 1 stats that player don't streak with. HRs and hits yes but, players who walk alot usually do so for their career. Some of the greatest hitters of all time have more walks than SO. Pujols and Berkman come to mind. First ballet HOF's?

Please don't make Barton sound bad because you think so. BTW...I'd love to have the Overbay from 04-06 in my lineup. Of which Overbay never walked more than 81.

I'm just saying you could get Barton (if Billy even wanted to let him go) a hell of a lot cheaper than Upton and I think you'd be getting better value. Barton "could" be a OBP machine for years to come.

Fair enough.. i just don't think he is the top end talent that AA is looking for

bomber0104
11-20-2010, 01:30 AM
Am I the only one who's concerned about the pen? Releasing Camp doesn't make much sense. In AA we trust and all but, There's no one left with a ERA under 4 except Janssen and Hill. I hope we can pull a trade off as most the the FA seem a little on the old side and the good ones seem to be signing quickly.

The thing about Doc I miss is we had a starter and a reliever in one. 8-)

Who said we released Camp?

Billyen
11-20-2010, 03:03 AM
Who said we released Camp?

Sorry, that was Hill that was released. Still, how do you release a guy with a 2.61 ERA in 20 innings and a guy from TO too boot?

dunedinjays
11-20-2010, 10:48 AM
Sorry, that was Hill that was released. Still, how do you release a guy with a 2.61 ERA in 20 innings and a guy from TO too boot?

Maybe because he asked to be released?

riderfan60
11-20-2010, 03:12 PM
Sorry, that was Hill that was released. Still, how do you release a guy with a 2.61 ERA in 20 innings and a guy from TO too boot?

You release him because you need to clear a roster spot for a younger player you want to keep. Does anyone see Hill as a starter for the Jays in 2011?

He sure as hell won't be in the bullpen, he's a starter. Maybe we bring him back under a minor league contract, but I don't think he's a part of our future.

B2theRY
12-04-2010, 12:33 PM
what about Jose Reyes?

are the mets wanting alot for that overpaid bum?

bring him in move hill to 3B
and Reyes to 2B (hes played second before)

however i do believe he makes pretty crazy money.
but when he is healthy the guys dirty!

Eagles4Lyfe
12-04-2010, 06:26 PM
not this year but within the next couple years unless we get a stud somehow we have to make an epic block buster trade

mycokes
12-06-2010, 06:33 PM
jays need to focus on bullpen. if soriano is out of the price range, look at soria. fuentes, choate, affeldt, and balfour all need to be wooed hard. i would prefer the jays to trade for soria than grienke. without a closer, this team will not compete. the starters look good (though definitely much less so now that marcum is gone) but the pen was a mess and is still a mess.

heusy_79
12-07-2010, 07:18 PM
Michael Young is rumoured to be on the block, any interest from Jays fans? He's a solid contact bat and can play third allowing Bautista to stay in the field. He can also play the middle infield spots if needed and because of his age and large contract, he probably wouldn't require an overly large return. He could hold down third until Lawrie is ready, or move to second if Hill was moved. Young is buddies with VW and would provide more veteran leadership for this young club (he has beaten the Yankees in the playoffs!!!).

bomber0104
12-07-2010, 07:40 PM
like i said in the other thread.. 3 years left on the contract at 16 per.. no thanks

statquo
12-08-2010, 03:06 AM
I still think we should try Rich Harden as our closer. Give him what we paid Gregg last year with the options too.

ILDD
12-08-2010, 01:27 PM
With the current rumours about Russel Martin floating around I wondered about a JPA trade.

How about JPA for Yonder Alonso of Cincinatti Reds?

Alonso is a young 1st baseman, exactly what AA wants. He's blocked at 1B by a certain Mr J Votto so he should be available. Reds wnat IF help but they could be enticed by JPA.

Signing Martin gives cover at C, allowing JPA to be traded when his value is highest and the trade is taking players from a position of depth and getting players in a position of weakness.

DiPasquale7
12-08-2010, 01:44 PM
With the current rumours about Russel Martin floating around I wondered about a JPA trade.

How about JPA for Yonder Alonso of Cincinatti Reds?

Alonso is a young 1st baseman, exactly what AA wants. He's blocked at 1B by a certain Mr J Votto so he should be available. Reds wnat IF help but they could be enticed by JPA.

Signing Martin gives cover at C, allowing JPA to be traded when his value is highest and the trade is taking players from a position of depth and getting players in a position of weakness.

I like the idea of going after Alonso! I'd be more inclined to package D'Arnaud and Mills (or something along those lines) for him.

LF - Snider
CF - Wells/ Gose
RF - Bautista
3B - Lawrie
SS - Escobar/ Hechvarria
2B - Hill
1B - Alonso
DH - Lind
C - Arencebia

I love that lineup both now and in the future. Go for it AA!

jon32
12-08-2010, 05:57 PM
What about Melky Cabrera? He's only 26, good speed and alright potential. I think with the bluejays his numbers could certainly improve.

wagnall
12-08-2010, 08:32 PM
Youngs numbers are actually pretty good and consistant. Has he 3 years of those numbers left and maybe they eat some of this contact, its a good sign.
But much rather have Martin as he can also catch and at 27 still has a lot of years to offer us. I'm confused why this deal has not been done. I know in AA we trust, but 1995 we were going to be a playoff team in 3 years. When we got Ricc we were told we had the best guy around, especially because of his Oaklnd job. Again 3 years we are a play off team, and agin nothing. AA has a chance to be a hero here, but I will reserve a little of the in AA we trust when I actually see our team get better.

wagnall
12-08-2010, 08:45 PM
Still like Fielder as our cornerstone player at 1st. 26 and can be here for 7 years or more. His weight is not a problem as I see it, 6'2" 350 lb. lineman get the job done and they have to work a lot harder than Fielder has too. His numbers are steady and big. Would also be a draw at the gates. He'd be a king here and will show other players that we are serious about winning and will like to be part of it. Just my opinion, don't jump all over me.

bluejaysfan11
12-08-2010, 08:49 PM
What about a 3 way deal between the Jays, Rangers and Marlins??

Jays Get:
Young
Nolasco
Nunez

Rangers Get:
Stewart
Thames

Marlins Get:
Perez
Snider
Rzepycnzki
Alvarez

jon32
12-08-2010, 09:02 PM
Still like Fielder as our cornerstone player at 1st. 26 and can be here for 7 years or more. His weight is not a problem as I see it, 6'2" 350 lb. lineman get the job done and they have to work a lot harder than Fielder has too. His numbers are steady and big. Would also be a draw at the gates. He'd be a king here and will show other players that we are serious about winning and will like to be part of it. Just my opinion, don't jump all over me.

I'd love Fielder here. But there's no way he stays at 1st for much longer. Id like to see him at first until his weight and age get the best of his defensive skills tho and then move him to DH where he can still do damage.

Kelly Gruber
12-08-2010, 09:06 PM
With the current rumours about Russel Martin floating around I wondered about a JPA trade.

How about JPA for Yonder Alonso of Cincinatti Reds?

Alonso is a young 1st baseman, exactly what AA wants. He's blocked at 1B by a certain Mr J Votto so he should be available. Reds wnat IF help but they could be enticed by JPA.

Signing Martin gives cover at C, allowing JPA to be traded when his value is highest and the trade is taking players from a position of depth and getting players in a position of weakness.

I've read that they have feilded multiple offers but don't want to move him. Probably take another young starter to get him (Cecil? Ouch). But it is a fit.

wagnall
12-08-2010, 09:07 PM
Id hate to see Snider and Rzep go for a 48 mill player, who is good but also 35. I think Rzep has a real chance of making the 5 man rotation, or our long reliver would can give 3 to 5 innings of work. Snider, I still think he has more worth to him. Only my opinion.

wagnall
12-08-2010, 09:11 PM
I'd love Fielder here. But there's no way he stays at 1st for much longer. Id like to see him at first until his weight and age get the best of his defensive skills tho and then move him to DH where he can still do damage.

I'll take 5 years at 1st and 2 years as DH with 1st base back up. Still a ligit building block. Plus its going to take a while to draft a 1st baseman as none seem to be in the system. Feilder in the 4 spot looks real good. This would let us concentrate more on the positions that will need help soon.

Kelly Gruber
12-08-2010, 09:14 PM
No to fielder. This guy is fat and going to be very well paid. But if he doesn't get that body under control he's the next Mo Vaughn. We can't afford to have an albatross, too risky. If we're spending 20 million on a dude there can be no doubt. I'm not talking about next year, or the year after. I'm talking about 3-4 years when we're (realistically) going to be contending. If Fielder's knees give out from carrying all those cheeseburgers, we're doomed with the contract he'll have.

My biggest concern is this team is ready to spend when the time is right. I understand not making moves like this, or Adrian Gonzalez for that matter, doesn't make financial sense (why spend 20 million on a player on a team that's not ready to compete?). But when the time is right there had better some money where their mouth is from ownership.

wagnall
12-08-2010, 09:31 PM
No to fielder. This guy is fat and going to be very well paid. But if he doesn't get that body under control he's the next Mo Vaughn. We can't afford to have an albatross, too risky. If we're spending 20 million on a dude there can be no doubt. I'm not talking about next year, or the year after. I'm talking about 3-4 years when we're (realistically) going to be contending. If Fielder's knees give out from carrying all those cheeseburgers, we're doomed with the contract he'll have.

My biggest concern is this team is ready to spend when the time is right. I understand not making moves like this, or Adrian Gonzalez for that matter, doesn't make financial sense (why spend 20 million on a player on a team that's not ready to compete?). But when the time is right there had better some money where their mouth is from ownership.

While I disagree with you, we all have our opinions. No player is a guarrentee and all have some down sides.. In 3 to 4 years, all our regulars will be 30 or older. And we seem to have a problem signing players in their 30's. Just wish it was 2 years away so we could still have some of our out and infielders will be part of team. Pitchers will or should be ready by then though. Kind of sound impatient, but I hate sitting at the Rogers Centre and I can hear the guy across the field.

wagnall
12-08-2010, 09:42 PM
What if his contact stipulated he had to pair down to 250. I'm 5'10 and 240 and 56 years old and I still play baseball, swim and run 3 miles a day. And while this is a long shot I'd still like him. My opinion only.

Kelly Gruber
12-08-2010, 10:15 PM
While I disagree with you, we all have our opinions. No player is a guarrentee and all have some down sides.. In 3 to 4 years, all our regulars will be 30 or older. And we seem to have a problem signing players in their 30's. Just wish it was 2 years away so we could still have some of our out and infielders will be part of team. Pitchers will or should be ready by then though. Kind of sound impatient, but I hate sitting at the Rogers Centre and I can hear the guy across the field.

I'm not against spending some money at all, just not on mega-contracts. Especially to guys with weight issues. Sign Ramirez? Sure. I'd love to have a better turn-out and signing some names would do that. But if we're giving assets for something, it better make sense in the long term virtually risk-free. Let the Yanks or Sox pay this dude, he can't get motivated to get in shape now, what's it going to be like when he has a fat, long-term contract?

Kelly Gruber
12-08-2010, 10:19 PM
The core of this team when we're contending should be guys like Snider, Gose, Escobar, Lawrie and hopefully Arencibia. Our current vets will be just that, veterans. The goal here is to spend money on a deep team. Look at the Rays, they were competitive because of a lot of young, controllable talent. We're shooting to do the same, just hopefully attendance picks up and our owners pony up to keep the guys we need to keep when the time comes.

T.O. Fan
12-08-2010, 10:32 PM
What about a 3 way deal between the Jays, Rangers and Marlins??

Jays Get:
Young
Nolasco
Nunez

Rangers Get:
Stewart
Thames

Marlins Get:
Perez
Snider
Rzepycnzki
Alvarez

So the Jays would move 2 MLB ready players, a top prospect and three middle range prospects for 35yr. old Young, and middle/back end reliever and Nolasco?

No thanks.

TyA
12-09-2010, 12:26 AM
Trade for Matt Garza. Better fit and probably cheaper than Greinke.
1. Brandon Morrow
2. Ricky Romero
3. Matt Garza
4. Brett Cecil
5. Kyle Drabek

Pretty solid & young

bomber0104
12-09-2010, 12:39 AM
What about a 3 way deal between the Jays, Rangers and Marlins??

Jays Get:
Young
Nolasco
Nunez

Rangers Get:
Stewart
Thames

Marlins Get:
Perez
Snider
Rzepycnzki
Alvarez

lol why is this a 3-way.. the Rangers and Marlins aren't given each other anything unless by Perez, you mean the rangers top pitching prospect.

venom518
12-09-2010, 12:50 AM
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal

RedSox get Crawford 7/$142mil Just have to cross T's and dot the I's.

craigerlee
12-09-2010, 01:38 AM
Trade for Matt Garza. Better fit and probably cheaper than Greinke.
1. Brandon Morrow
2. Ricky Romero
3. Matt Garza
4. Brett Cecil
5. Kyle Drabek

Pretty solid & young

He's still gonna cost a fair bit trade wise. Should cost a lot more than Marcum cause he's got one extra year of arb and Rays will want a premium to trade him in the division. So he won't be that much cheaper than Greinke. I think trading any of our prospects for these pitchers is a mistake, the way the Red Sox have improved, and how good the Yankees are gonna be, I think we're best to stick to the rebuild.

ah nuts
12-09-2010, 01:56 AM
He's still gonna cost a fair bit trade wise. Should cost a lot more than Marcum cause he's got one extra year of arb and Rays will want a premium to trade him in the division. So he won't be that much cheaper than Greinke. I think trading any of our prospects for these pitchers is a mistake, the way the Red Sox have improved, and how good the Yankees are gonna be, I think we're best to stick to the rebuild.

I'm having a hard time keeping my hip hip harrah for the 2011 jays. As boston is looking more scary, the jays are looking more and more green.

- marcum
- Downs(likely will go to boston - their #1 draft is already gone)
+ lind at 1st
+ JPA
+ Laurie
+ Drabek
+ rule 5 in the pen ???

just as well trade bautista in july

craigerlee
12-09-2010, 02:48 AM
I'm having a hard time keeping my hip hip harrah for the 2011 jays. As boston is looking more scary, the jays are looking more and more green.

- marcum
- Downs(likely will go to boston - their #1 draft is already gone)
+ lind at 1st
+ JPA
+ Laurie
+ Drabek
+ rule 5 in the pen ???

just as well trade bautista in july

Not sure if Downs goes to Boston they'd have to give up the 1st they got from V-mart. They also might get a 1st for Beltre depending where he goes. I'm still not sure if they're willing to give up a 1st for a reliever.

2009mvp
12-09-2010, 03:02 AM
Not sure if Downs goes to Boston they'd have to give up the 1st they got from V-mart. They also might get a 1st for Beltre depending where he goes. I'm still not sure if they're willing to give up a 1st for a reliever.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Their first goes to Tampa, they keep the Tigers pick either way. If they signed Downs we'd be getting their 2nd rounder plus a sandwich pick.

Shifty1 69
12-09-2010, 09:33 AM
What if his contact stipulated he had to pair down to 250. I'm 5'10 and 240 and 56 years old and I still play baseball, swim and run 3 miles a day. And while this is a long shot I'd still like him. My opinion only.

You are 56yo, 5"10 - 240 and run 3 miles a day?? :speechless:

TO to the CHI
12-09-2010, 10:08 AM
You are 56yo, 5"10 - 240 and run 3 miles a day?? :speechless:

Allow me to be the first to call BS.

Also let me point out that (in response to Wagnall's earlier post), in 3-4 years most of the Jays' regulars are unlikely to be 30+. Who on this team, will likely still be here in 3-4 years and actually be over 30?

TO to the CHI
12-09-2010, 10:11 AM
Id hate to see Snider and Rzep go for a 48 mill player, who is good but also 35. I think Rzep has a real chance of making the 5 man rotation, or our long reliver would can give 3 to 5 innings of work. Snider, I still think he has more worth to him. Only my opinion.

Anyone who thinks that Snider should be included in a deal for Young is an idiot. It's not an opinion situation. It is unequivocal. They should not be mentioned in the same breath.

The three way trade brought back much more than just Young mind you, but I would leave the Rangers out and just trade the Marlins for Nolasco/Nunez (which I think makes a lot of sense and raised in the Greinke thread). I think Stewart, D'Arnaud, and a couple of mid range specs would be more than enough to get a deal done and I would make that trade, sign a vet bat or two (Manny, Laroche) and let some of my youth gets experience next year (a full season for Drabek and Snider and JPA, part of a year for Lawrie).

craigerlee
12-09-2010, 01:41 PM
I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Their first goes to Tampa, they keep the Tigers pick either way. If they signed Downs we'd be getting their 2nd rounder plus a sandwich pick.

Ya your right. My bad. Crazy to think that the Red Sox are having this good of an offseason and still may have two picks in the 1st round.

craigerlee
12-09-2010, 01:46 PM
The three way trade brought back much more than just Young mind you, but I would leave the Rangers out and just trade the Marlins for Nolasco/Nunez (which I think makes a lot of sense and raised in the Greinke thread). I think Stewart, D'Arnaud, and a couple of mid range specs would be more than enough to get a deal done and I would make that trade, sign a vet bat or two (Manny, Laroche) and let some of my youth gets experience next year (a full season for Drabek and Snider and JPA, part of a year for Lawrie).

Looking at the Marlins off season so far, leads me to believe they are planning on making a run in the NL East, so I don't think they're gonna want prospects for their everyday players of Nolasco and Nunez. I think if they wanted prospects they would of taken a better deal for Uggla, wouldn't of signed John Buck, and wouldn't of shored up their bullpen.

wamco
12-12-2010, 10:59 AM
snider plus ? for pedro alvarez

The_Jet11
12-12-2010, 01:38 PM
^^^ yes please!

T.O. Fan
12-12-2010, 08:04 PM
It will be interesting to see what the Red Sox do with Jacoby Ellsbury.

With the Crawford signing they now have five MLB outfielders who could be considered as starter quality in Crawford, JD Drew, Cameron, Kalish and Ellsbury.

Perhaps they just hold onto Ellsbury with Cameron and Drew set to be free agents after next season.

Not that I think the Jays or Red Sox would make a deal anyway, but it will be interesting to see.

bomber0104
12-12-2010, 08:59 PM
snider plus ? for pedro alvarez

I dont see the point
Alvarez and Snider are very similar players and since Alvarez can't play 3rd, there is no point

wamco
12-13-2010, 08:11 AM
He made some highlight reel plays at 3rd last year, I thought he had an awesome arm strengh as well, but i am aware there are concerns there.

Kelly Gruber
12-13-2010, 02:40 PM
There's been concerns, but it looks like the Bucs are going to give him a shot to play 3B every day. But yeah, not sure he's a better prospect than Snider and considering he could very well move to 1B, it would be a risky move.