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View Full Version : If you could only pick one point guard...



DreamShaker
10-15-2010, 02:02 AM
We are viewing what has become a revival of the point guard position in the NBA. After watching guys like Iverson, Starbury, and Stevie Franchise dominate with the hybrid/scoring point style the earlier part of the decade...we have seen a new leaf being turned. A breed of quick, playmaking point guards who get to the hoop with blazing speed and make the players around them better. A REAL point guard.

So who is the cream of the crop?

The question I pose is this...if you had one of these guys for the next 6 years...who would it be? Base it off potential, experience, a mix of both, whatev. But who you got?

Here is the list:

Chris Paul
John Wall
Derrick Rose
Brandon Jennings
Aaron Brooks
Roddy Beubois
Deron Williams
Jrue Holiday
Darren Collison
Russel Westbrook
Tyreke Evans
Ricky Rubio
Devin Harris
Rajon Rondo
Steph Curry
Johnny Flynn

lakers4sho
10-15-2010, 02:08 AM
I think half of those guys you listed would fit in the hybrid/scoring PG moreso than the "typical" playmaking passing PG.

DreamShaker
10-15-2010, 02:09 AM
Messed up on the poll..if a mod wants to fix it.

DreamShaker
10-15-2010, 02:10 AM
I think half of those guys you listed would fit in the hybrid/scoring PG moreso than the "typical" playmaking passing PG.

Work with me here...

lakers4sho
10-15-2010, 02:15 AM
If I had to pick one among the list, I'm gonna have to go with Deron Williams. Personally, I like his style better than Chris Paul.

I think it's unfair to the rest that you have both names on the list. I think people would choose either Deron or Paul, so it isn't much of a competition...



...unless you're a Bulls fan :p (just playing)

dnewguy
10-15-2010, 02:15 AM
Rose, Jennings, Brooks, Harris and Collison are combo guards. They average more shots than passing attempts.

Lloyd Christmas
10-15-2010, 02:23 AM
Easy choice for me. Give me CP3. I know he has some injury concerns, but he's a top 5 player in the league who is still relatively young.

Kyben36
10-15-2010, 02:28 AM
D Williams for me, I like his overall game more than CP3, in their prime though, nash dominates all.

Cromedome
10-15-2010, 02:35 AM
Williams/Cp3 ...can't go wrong either way.

More-Than-Most
10-15-2010, 02:42 AM
Paul or williams.

Side note... Holiday will end up being a monster in the future... He was an absolute steal for the sixers.

TrueFan420
10-15-2010, 02:58 AM
Williams is best on the list but I could not help but pick curry because he is younger and has a sh1t ton of upside plus im warrior fan

abe_froman
10-15-2010, 03:12 AM
uhh thought there'd be more love for evans and/or rondo,not leading but a few votes

Mplsman
10-15-2010, 03:17 AM
Cp

Blazers#1Fan
10-15-2010, 03:33 AM
if i was gonna start a franchise and needed a point for the next 6 years this is my PG List

1.Rondo(would be a great PG on any team he makes the players around him look way better and can pass the ball with ease)
2.CP3(no introduction needed)
3.Evans(young can shoot pass rebound)
4.Rose(Good player)
5.Wall(kid can ball)

KG2TB
10-15-2010, 03:35 AM
CP3 is the cream of the crop. No bones about it. It amazes me how he gets injured and all of a sudden is forgotten about and people put D-will ahead of him. D-will is an amazing PG...2nd best PG in the league...but how quickly people forget how special CP3 is. CP3...hands down. Off the charts competitor.

Blazers#1Fan
10-15-2010, 03:35 AM
after watching williams do that crap he did at the all star game i couldnt trust him running my team even if it was the all star game

Bullsfan22
10-15-2010, 03:44 AM
easy cp3

jimbobjarree
10-15-2010, 04:07 AM
if i was gonna start a franchise and needed a point for the next 6 years this is my PG List

1.Rondo(would be a great PG on any team he makes the players around him look way better and can pass the ball with ease)
2.CP3(no introduction needed)
3.Evans(young can shoot pass rebound)
4.Rose(Good player)
5.Wall(kid can ball)

look forward to getting heavily raped this year

sincerely

Deron Williams

PS: bahaha we swept you 4-0 last season

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 07:53 AM
Chris Paul all day for me. Deron 2nd, everyone else a distant 3rd

Ace33Bone
10-15-2010, 07:59 AM
To me you either go with Paul or Williams they are a toos up to me cant go wrong with either. I went with Williams just because he was healthy last year and I wanted to tie the voting up @ 11-11 on this thread so there you have it

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 08:03 AM
To me you either go with Paul or Williams they are a toos up to me cant go wrong with either. I went with Williams just because he was healthy last year and I wanted to tie the voting up @ 11-11 on this thread so there you have it

haha, at least your honest. But yeah, I am not gonna crap on anyone for picking Deron over Paul, even though Paul has clearly been the better player over their young careers. I would rather wait to shizz talk until I see how Paul has recovered. If he returns to his pre-injury form, he then again sits atop the league's PG's in a runaway.

Khalifa21
10-15-2010, 08:22 AM
This should have two options... CP3 or Deron.

Sorry, but who here would choose Jrue Holiday or Roddy Beaubois over one of those two?

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 08:25 AM
This should have two options... CP3 or Deron.

Sorry, but who here would choose Jrue Holiday or Roddy Beaubois over one of those two?

you have been on PSD, right? Choices here go without explanation, and that is probably just fine

dhopisthename
10-15-2010, 08:25 AM
I think this poll would have been more interesting had you taken out paul and williams and perhaps even rose and rondo

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 08:26 AM
I think this poll would have been more interesting had you taken out paul and williams and perhaps even rose and rondo

they would have been brought up right away though. You can't leave 25 year old PG's out when discussing them. That would be ridiculous

bigsams50
10-15-2010, 08:29 AM
Chris Paul all day for me. Deron 2nd, everyone else a distant 3rd

This

goose15
10-15-2010, 08:39 AM
D Will for me

Ollie Tabooger
10-15-2010, 09:27 AM
1. CP3
2. Deron
3. Rondo
4. Tyreke
5. Curry
6. Rose
7. Holiday
8. Collison
9. Jennings
10. Wall
11. Brooks
12. Harris
13. Beaubois

Sly Guy
10-15-2010, 09:35 AM
If I had to pick one among the list, I'm gonna have to go with Deron Williams. Personally, I like his style better than Chris Paul.

I think it's unfair to the rest that you have both names on the list. I think people would choose either Deron or Paul, so it isn't much of a competition...



...unless you're a Bulls fan :p (just playing)

agreed. The better question would be who on that list outside of Deron or Paul. [adjusted by the removal of rose for chicago homerism]

TehSamurai
10-15-2010, 09:57 AM
D Williams for me, I like his overall game more than CP3, in their prime though, nash dominates all.

Really? I could have sworn that Chris Paul's 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 seasons blew away any season from Nash.

John Walls Era
10-15-2010, 10:03 AM
Deron Williams or John Wall.

John Walls Era
10-15-2010, 10:04 AM
after watching williams do that crap he did at the all star game i couldnt trust him running my team even if it was the all star game

Over what he does in actual games and in the playoffs?

NYKNYGNYY
10-15-2010, 10:21 AM
cp3
john wall-can argue him number one hes a rookie and already tearing it up even tho its preseason i think hes gonna have an amazing career baring any injuries
deron williams
derek rose
rajon rando

LTBaByyy
10-15-2010, 10:27 AM
Really? I could have sworn that Chris Paul's 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 seasons blew away any season from Nash.

So winning 2 back to back mvps in steve nash prime isnt better? Wow

TehSamurai
10-15-2010, 10:30 AM
So winning 2 back to back mvps in steve nash prime isnt better? Wow

Not when Chris Paul clearly played better in the seasons I mentioned.

Look at the stats yourself if you don't want to take my word for it.

sep11ie
10-15-2010, 10:39 AM
Deron Williams is the best PG in the NBA.

sep11ie
10-15-2010, 10:42 AM
So winning 2 back to back mvps in steve nash prime isnt better? Wow

Nash should not have been MVP either season.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 10:48 AM
So winning 2 back to back mvps in steve nash prime isnt better? Wow

Nash was not the best player in the NBA either year. The MVP's are great, but he has never had the all around years Paul has from 06-08'.

todu82
10-15-2010, 10:50 AM
Chris Paul

bbcmillionaire
10-15-2010, 10:50 AM
Give me dwill over everybody, proven winner, not as injury prone as paul, can score/defend. My list
dwill
Paul
rose
Westbrook(sorry rondo I like pgs who can score when the focus is on them)

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 10:56 AM
Nash's 2 best statistical seasons vs Paul's best 2, just for kicks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=paulch01&y1=2009&p2=nashst01&y2=2007

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=paulch01&y1=2008&p2=nashst01&y2=2006

The second was an MVP season from Nash, and Paul still had better numbers. Kobe was robbed of an MVP in that season btw.

NBA-GMaster
10-15-2010, 11:09 AM
For me Dwill (a Jason Kidd type)

tr3ymill3r
10-15-2010, 11:09 AM
I get to see Aaron Brooks play on a consistent basis for I live in Houston and am a huge Rockets fan. With that being said, he does lack the ball movement and getting others involved within the offense, but at the same time he is able to create his own shot and he's under 6'0". I think he is always over looked because he's in Houston and all we talk about is Yao Ming being hurt that AB gets unnoticed. He was the MIP last year, and he wants to be the first guy to win the award 2 years in a row, that would be pretty cool. Look out for AB to have a huge year, especially with Martin healthy and Scola...if Yao is finally healthy watch out for Houston.

xbrackattackx
10-15-2010, 11:09 AM
Paul would be my PG, D-Will my SG and Rondo my Defensive SF lol.

xbrackattackx
10-15-2010, 11:10 AM
For me Rondo(a Jason Kidd type)

Fixed.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 11:12 AM
I get to see Aaron Brooks play on a consistent basis for I live in Houston and am a huge Rockets fan. With that being said, he does lack the ball movement and getting others involved within the offense, but at the same time he is able to create his own shot and he's under 6'0". I think he is always over looked because he's in Houston and all we talk about is Yao Ming being hurt that AB gets unnoticed. He was the MIP last year, and he wants to be the first guy to win the award 2 years in a row, that would be pretty cool. Look out for AB to have a huge year, especially with Martin healthy and Scola...if Yao is finally healthy watch out for Houston.

Brooks would probably be better as a dynamic scoring guard off the bench. i can't take him seriously as a lead PG for a championship team at this point.

Niro
10-15-2010, 11:15 AM
i picked steph (hooooomer)

even though you cant go wrong with steph its clearly d.will and cp3

jrm2054
10-15-2010, 11:21 AM
Cp3

Chacarron
10-15-2010, 11:28 AM
As much as I hate him, Chris Paul.

xbrackattackx
10-15-2010, 11:31 AM
As much as I hate him, Chris Paul.

I thought I was the only person who hated that guy.

TehSamurai
10-15-2010, 11:34 AM
Why are Lakers fans so fascinated with Deron Williams anyway? Every Lakers board praises the dude every chance they get.

Gators123
10-15-2010, 11:37 AM
Chris Paul, easily.

Team*Chicago
10-15-2010, 11:40 AM
It's a obvious choice that it would be Derrick Rose but if it weren't for him I would definately pick Chris Pual.



I think half of those guys you listed would fit in the hybrid/scoring PG moreso than the "typical" playmaking passing PG.

That's a funny -ss sig.:laugh2:

FadeAwayLikeMJ
10-15-2010, 11:44 AM
1. Rondo - puts in 110% every game and hes pass first.
2. CP3 - great passer AND scorer
3. Wall - in 2 years he'll prolly be number 1 on my list

AlexTmz2
10-15-2010, 11:45 AM
Chris Pauls, Deron Williams, and Rajon Rondo. Top PG's for me this upcoming season.

Baller1
10-15-2010, 11:53 AM
Deron for me.

TehSamurai
10-15-2010, 11:53 AM
1. Rondo - puts in 110% every game and hes pass first.
2. CP3 - great passer AND scorer
3. Wall - in 2 years he'll prolly be number 1 on my list

You would really pick Rondo over Paul and Williams? :laugh2:

AlexTmz2
10-15-2010, 11:58 AM
You would really pick Rondo over Paul and Williams? :laugh2:

I would, the only thing Rondo doesnt do well is score the 3. But i'd probably take him over CP3 and D-Will. I'll probably take Rondo over those 2 this season in my fantasy league lol. It's a close 1. :D

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 12:03 PM
I would, the only thing Rondo doesnt do well is score the 3. But i'd probably take him over CP3 and D-Will. I'll probably take Rondo over those 2 this season in my fantasy league lol. It's a close 1. :D

Rondo's offensive liabilities, and his large turnover rate drop him from the CP3 discussion quickly. Rondo's utter lack of taking games over with efficient scoring also drop him out of Deron's level. After that, Rondo can be debated with whichever PG you wish. But in no way is he on Paul or Deron's level

Guru™
10-15-2010, 12:04 PM
CP3. Not even close imo.

TehSamurai
10-15-2010, 12:06 PM
I would, the only thing Rondo doesnt do well is score the 3.

Or shoot, period. Which is why the Lakers left him open in the Finals and why he shot less than 30% from the free throw line in the finals.

Why the hell would anyone take Rondo over two players who are clearly better than he is? He never had to take on the role of a leader. People loved to praise Rondo when he had good playoff games, but nobody said anything when he played like crap.

He's not better than Chris Paul or Deron Williams, and he never will be. He may be a better defender (which isn't that important for point guards) and rebounder, but that's it.

AlexTmz2
10-15-2010, 12:13 PM
Or shoot, period. Which is why the Lakers left him open in the Finals and why he shot less than 30% from the free throw line in the finals.

Why the hell would anyone take Rondo over two players who are clearly better than he is? He never had to take on the role of a leader. People loved to praise Rondo when he had good playoff games, but nobody said anything when he played like crap.

He's not better than Chris Paul or Deron Williams, and he never will be. He may be a better defender (which isn't that important for point guards) and rebounder, but that's it.

Thats it. Those 2 categories are still very important for a guard. Im just saying Rondo is'nt far away from CP3 or D-Will. Im still taking him over those 2this year. I think Rondo is gonna have a great season. We can't forget that Paul was injured much last season. Who knows what he'll do this year. Also, he's been wanting our of New Orleans. Im taking Rondo over both this year. But thats just my opinion.

TehSamurai
10-15-2010, 12:16 PM
But thats just my opinion.

Your opinion is not good.

There's absolutely no reason to pick Rondo over Paul and Williams. None. He hasn't lead a team ever. He isn't a better shooter, scorer or ball handler--things Paul and, to a lesser extent, Williams excel at.

When Rondo actually averages more than 18 points and 10 assists a game.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 12:17 PM
Thats it. Those 2 categories are still very important for a guard. Im just saying Rondo is'nt far away from CP3 or D-Will. Im still taking him over those 2this year. I think Rondo is gonna have a great season. We can't forget that Paul was injured much last season. Who knows what he'll do this year. Also, he's been wanting our of New Orleans. Im taking Rondo over both this year. But thats just my opinion.

you can have Rondo. I think the wiser choices are Paul and Deron. And I think I have 30 GM's that agree with me

AlexTmz2
10-15-2010, 12:18 PM
Your opinion is not good.

There's absolutely no reason to pick Rondo over Paul and Williams. None. He hasn't lead a team ever. He isn't a better shooter, scorer or ball handler--things Paul and, to a lesser extent, Williams excel at.

When Rondo actually averages more than 18 points and 10 assists a game.

Fair comment.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 12:19 PM
It's gotta be Rondo. I mean Deron Williams and Chris Paul are better scorers but Rondo can score as well and he's better at rebounding and a way better defender. I would like my PG to be the complete package. That's why I always loved Jason Kidd and I think Rondo is very similar but a better defender.

pebloemer
10-15-2010, 12:20 PM
I would, the only thing Rondo doesnt do well is score the 3. But i'd probably take him over CP3 and D-Will. I'll probably take Rondo over those 2 this season in my fantasy league lol. It's a close 1. :D

Seriously, if you have a chance to take Williams, Paul or Rondo, do not take Rondo. While he can help you in steals, rebounds, assists and FG%, you can get many of the same stats from Williams or Paul, without destroying your potential for 3PM, and FT%. Rondo is a better real life PG than a fantasy PG. He is still good fantasy value, but not with a top pick.

BKLYNNYRNYKNYY
10-15-2010, 12:20 PM
i went with cp3, But i would of had a true pg like nash over anyone of those

samevans7
10-15-2010, 12:20 PM
CP3. Not even close imo.

lol i was like "who made that sig. its tightttt..."

then i saw it said Guru lol

AlexTmz2
10-15-2010, 12:21 PM
If you would ask me to take any PG, i would Take Rondo. Maybe because im more about defense. Defense wins games, IMO. I understand that both williams and paul can carry their teams by scoring. But scoring doenst win games. Im taking Rondo everytime.

TehSamurai
10-15-2010, 12:24 PM
If you would ask me to take any PG, i would Take Rondo. Maybe because im more about defense. Defense wins games, IMO. I understand that both williams and paul can carry their teams by scoring. But scoring doenst win games. Im taking Rondo everytime.

Yes, defense does win games. However, point guards are not defensive anchors.

Would you also take Rondo over Magic Johnson? He wasn't that good on defense.

samevans7
10-15-2010, 12:28 PM
Rankings of PGs

Deron Williams: A
Chris Paul: A
Rajon Rondo: A-
Derrick Rose: B+
Steve Nash: B
Chauncey Billups: B
Russell Westbrook (why isnt he on this list!) B
Tyreke Evans: B
Brandon Jennings: B
John Wall: B-
Stephen Curry: B-
Jason Kidd: B-
Aaron Brooks: C+
Darren Collison: C+
Devin Harris: C
Jrue Holliday: C
Goran Dragic: C-
Roddy Beaubois: C-

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 12:31 PM
If you would ask me to take any PG, i would Take Rondo. Maybe because im more about defense. Defense wins games, IMO. I understand that both williams and paul can carry their teams by scoring. But scoring doenst win games. Im taking Rondo everytime.

Paul is an exceptional defender. Deron is above average. And they are both so far superior to Rondo offensively, they move ahead of him.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 12:32 PM
Defense wins games is one of the bigger false statements out there. If that was the case, the Bobcats would have been in the ECF's.

TehSamurai
10-15-2010, 12:34 PM
Defense wins games is one of the bigger false statements out there. If that was the case, the Bobcats would have been in the ECF's.

Of course, there needs to be a balance. Suns fans know that having a great offense isn't enough either.

AlexTmz2
10-15-2010, 12:35 PM
I agree on some points that Paul and D-Will are better PG's, it's not that i hate the guys. Im a huge fan of both. But if you would ask me to take a PG for my team im taking Rondo everytime. I just think he has the total package. Thats my opinion.

TehSamurai
10-15-2010, 12:37 PM
I agree on some points that Paul and D-Will are better PG's, it's not that i hate the guys. Im a huge fan of both. But if you would ask me to take a PG for my team im taking Rondo everytime. I just think he has the total package. Thats my opinion.

He has the total package if one completely ignores offense.

mikantsass
10-15-2010, 12:51 PM
This list should be only 2 names


but why isnt Westbrook on the list?

Slimsim
10-15-2010, 12:51 PM
D will

Giaps
10-15-2010, 12:53 PM
This list should be only 2 names
Yeah, or take out those 2 names...

If Chris Paul is healthy he's clearly the best PG in the NBA.

Deron Williams is right behind him and I nearly chose him for the simple fact that he is more durable.

Who's #3 is the better question.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 01:11 PM
Paul is an exceptional defender. Deron is above average. And they are both so far superior to Rondo offensively, they move ahead of him.

LOL. Chris Paul gets steals by jumping the passing lane. He's not a very good man defender at all. Rondo does so much more than Paul and Williams. His rebounding and defense alone is far superior to that of Paul and Williams and he can still score. Rondo is just as good of a passer, a way better rebounder, and a better defender. He beats them guys in 3 of the 4 main statistics. Rondo is a better all around player hands down.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 01:12 PM
He has the total package if one completely ignores offense.

He averaged 18ppg last year.

footballer2369
10-15-2010, 01:19 PM
He averaged 18ppg last year.

That's strange because those unreliable NBA.com, ESPN.com, basketball-reference.com websites say he averaged 13.7, 9.something and 4.4 rebounds....

Which, while nice, those #s get stomped on by the 2 elite PGs.

b_russ
10-15-2010, 01:20 PM
Why are Lakers fans so fascinated with Deron Williams anyway? Every Lakers board praises the dude every chance they get.

Because they see Williams in the playoffs. They don't see Paul.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 01:26 PM
LOL. Chris Paul gets steals by jumping the passing lane. He's not a very good man defender at all. Rondo does so much more than Paul and Williams. His rebounding and defense alone is far superior to that of Paul and Williams and he can still score. Rondo is just as good of a passer, a way better rebounder, and a better defender. He beats them guys in 3 of the 4 main statistics. Rondo is a better all around player hands down.

Paul is indeed a good man defender, and plays transition defense exceptionally. On a side note, how are you attempting to quantify defense? How can you prove outside the public perception that Rondo is such a better defender? You can't.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=willide01&y1=2010&p2=rondora01&y2=2010&p3=paulch01&y3=2010

Rondo is barely, and I mean barely, a better rebounder than either (last season). Even in Paul's injury plagued year, he assisted at a greater rate of possessions. Paul is actually a better defensive rebounder. Passing lanes? How do you think Rondo gets steals haha. Pauls offensive rating takes a complete dump on Rondo. Deron's as well.

For kicks, let post Deron and Rondo's numbers and throw in Paul's 08-09' season, of which we should expect to see this year

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=willide01&y1=2010&p2=paulch01&y2=2009&p3=rondora01&y3=2010

This is where we enter laughable world. Paul is indeed a better rebounder than either. He assisted on 55% of all possessions he was in the game, which is 10% higher than either Rondo or Deron's career high. He has MORE defensive win shares than either. His offensive rating destroys both. Why, cause unlike Rondo, he actually doesn't throw the ball away inexcusably twice a game, on top of normal expected turnover rate. He has the same defensive rating, despite Rondo having his rating benefited by a top 4 defense. Combine Paul's usage and turnover rate vs the other two, and offensively, there is such a gap, we would have to be talking Gary Payton defense versus Jonny Flynn defensive difference to make up the ground.

In Rondo's best year to date, he had 9.6 win shares, half of those defensive. Paul had 18.3 win shares, and a higher defensive contribution. Playing with KG, Perk, behind your back allows you to crowd the ball, so it appears Rondo is a shut down defender, when in reality, he is a disruptive passing lane player as you claim Paul is.

So to recap, of your 4 statistics:

Offense: Paul
Passing: Paul
Rebounding: Paul
Defense: Can't prove Rondo or Paul is better

Peace

Stunner
10-15-2010, 01:35 PM
Paul is indeed a good man defender, and plays transition defense exceptionally. On a side note, how are you attempting to quantify defense? How can you prove outside the public perception that Rondo is such a better defender? You can't.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=willide01&y1=2010&p2=rondora01&y2=2010&p3=paulch01&y3=2010

Rondo is barely, and I mean barely, a better rebounder than either (last season). Even in Paul's injury plagued year, he assisted at a greater rate of possessions. Paul is actually a better defensive rebounder. Passing lanes? How do you think Rondo gets steals haha. Pauls offensive rating takes a complete dump on Rondo. Deron's as well.

For kicks, let post Deron and Rondo's numbers and throw in Paul's 08-09' season, of which we should expect to see this year

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=willide01&y1=2010&p2=paulch01&y2=2009&p3=rondora01&y3=2010

This is where we enter laughable world. Paul is indeed a better rebounder than either. He assisted on 55% of all possessions he was in the game, which is 10% higher than either Rondo or Deron's career high. He has MORE defensive win shares than either. His offensive rating destroys both. Why, cause unlike Rondo, he actually doesn't throw the ball away inexcusably twice a game, on top of normal expected turnover rate. He has the same defensive rating, despite Rondo having his rating benefited by a top 4 defense. Combine Paul's usage and turnover rate vs the other two, and offensively, there is such a gap, we would have to be talking Gary Payton defense versus Jonny Flynn defensive difference to make up the ground.

In Rondo's best year to date, he had 9.6 win shares, half of those defensive. Paul had 18.3 win shares, and a higher defensive contribution. Playing with KG, Perk, behind your back allows you to crowd the ball, so it appears Rondo is a shut down defender, when in reality, he is a disruptive passing lane player as you claim Paul is.

So to recap, of your 4 statistics:

Offense: Paul
Passing: Paul
Rebounding: Paul
Defense: Can't prove Rondo or Paul is better

Peace

Paul has better D than Rondo cuz Paul plays good d on Rose and Rose be killing Rondo one on one. lmao Paul is the best PG in the league, Rondo is top 5 though.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 01:37 PM
Paul has better D than Rondo cuz Paul plays good d on Rose and Rose be killing Rondo one on one. lmao Paul is the best PG in the league, Rondo is top 5 though.

you can't base rankings on situational matchups, but yes, I am sick of the public perception of Rondo being this all world defender, when he hasn't seperated his defense from Paul, Westbrook, and a handful of others in any way. The biggest problem is, there is no way to prove it

Stunner
10-15-2010, 01:39 PM
you can't base rankings on situational matchups, but yes, I am sick of the public perception of Rondo being this all world defender, when he hasn't seperated his defense from Paul, Westbrook, and a handful of others in any way. The biggest problem is, there is no way to prove it

True but still Rose be killing Rondo everytime cuz he is known for having such great defense. Thats why its funny to me. Cant say that for Rose but in pre-season Rose defense is looking better than last year hope he gets better that and the 3 ball is holding him back.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 01:42 PM
True but still Rose be killing Rondo everytime cuz he is known for having such great defense. Thats why its funny to me. Cant say that for Rose but in pre-season Rose defense is looking better than last year hope he gets better that and the 3 ball is holding him back.

But I just said, just because Rondo has more trouble than Paul with Rose doesn't automatically place Paul as the better defender. Its not like Rose is the barometer of the league when it comes to measuring the defensive effectiveness of point guards.

TehSamurai
10-15-2010, 01:43 PM
Rondo does so much more than Paul and Williams.

No, he does not. He doesn't lead his team.


His rebounding and defense alone is far superior to that of Paul and Williams and he can still score.

Rebounding and defense are not that important for point guards.


Rondo is just as good of a passer,

Nope. He has never averaged 10 assists per game, while Paul has averaged over ten in the last three seasons. He isn't a better ball handler either.


a way better rebounder, and a better defender.

Not a big deal. And his rebounding, outside of the first round series against the Bulls a year ago, is not that great.


He beats them guys in 3 of the 4 main statistics.

Uh, don't bring up statistics because Paul destroys Rondo there.


Rondo is a better all around player hands down.

Rondo is such a great all around player that the Lakers left him wide open and he still couldn't hit his shots. Rondo is such a great all around player that he shot his free throws in the Finals like Ben Wallace with a blindfold on.

Stunner
10-15-2010, 01:52 PM
But I just said, just because Rondo has more trouble than Paul with Rose doesn't automatically place Paul as the better defender. Its not like Rose is the barometer of the league when it comes to measuring the defensive effectiveness of point guards.

I knw what u said but i said Rose be killing Rondo. Rondo is a good defender but isnt what he is hyped to be. Paul is a good defender as well and lil better than Rondo based on his work he has been doing since he came in the league unlike Rodo who jus got good thats all im saying. Hell u could say Kobe sets the standard for SG in terms of Offense , Lebron for SF, Hell i dnt even knw who the best PF is lol, Howard for C, and for PG in terms of offense u cant go wrong with Paul, D-Will or Rose cuz of the offensive talent they bring to the PG spot they are the best at scoring the ball right now in the NBA. So u could say if u play either one of them with good defense all the time and they work for their shots, you could rank their defense. But thats just me.

DaBUU
10-15-2010, 02:22 PM
Yeah, or take out those 2 names...

If Chris Paul is healthy he's clearly the best PG in the NBA.

Deron Williams is right behind him and I nearly chose him for the simple fact that he is more durable.

Who's #3 is the better question.

when both healthy, D-Will is just as good as Paul. So Chris Paul is not 'clearly' the best PG.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 02:25 PM
when both healthy, D-Will is just as good as Paul. So Chris Paul is not 'clearly' the best PG.

prove it then. Cause I think Paul is clearly better when both healthy

daleja424
10-15-2010, 02:39 PM
I would take Deron Williams...

from a production standpoint he is very close to cp3... but I am a little less worried about deron getting injured b/c he is built better.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 02:50 PM
I would take Deron Williams...

from a production standpoint he is very close to cp3... but I am a little less worried about deron getting injured b/c he is built better.

false.
And CP3 has one injury filled season, and is expected to be back to normal. I can understand you prefer the bigger guy, but we aren't talking Oden here

Giaps
10-15-2010, 03:00 PM
when both healthy, D-Will is just as good as Paul. So Chris Paul is not 'clearly' the best PG.
There was a time when Paul was so good, putting up God-like stats, that he was the clear cut #1 PG and that is acknowledging how awesome D-Will is. When CP3 plays like that, yes, it's clear he is the better of the 2 but there is the chance that he will never get to that level again.

Khalifa21
10-15-2010, 03:01 PM
Deron's best statistical season can't doesn't even come to close to what a fully healthy CP3 puts up.

CP3 is one of only 8 players in NBA history to have a PER of over 30 for a whole season (along with Jordan, LeBron, Wilt, Shaq, Robinson, McGrady and Wade). Deron's highest per is 21.1.

Statistically they're not close.

CP3 had one of the greatest statistical seasons for a PG the last year he was fully healthy in 2008-09.


Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2008-09 23 NOH NBA 78 78 38.5 8.1 16.1 .503 0.8 2.3 .364 5.8 6.7 .868 0.9 4.7 5.5 11.0 2.8 0.1 3.0 2.7 22.8
Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2008-09 23 NOH NBA 78 3002 30.0 .599 .528 2.8 14.6 8.7 54.5 3.9 0.3 13.5 27.5 124 103 13.3 5.0 18.3 0.292

Deron has never even come close to CP3 statistically.

WadeKobe
10-15-2010, 03:01 PM
D Williams for me, I like his overall game more than CP3, in their prime though, nash dominates all.

Yea, well, if we're talking current Point Guards who are still playing....

In their prime, Jason Kidd dominates all, including Nash.

WadeKobe
10-15-2010, 03:03 PM
There really should be zero discussion as to the fact that CP3 is the single best basketball player on this list. However, to start a team for the next 6 years?

Give me Deron Williams. I need my franchise PG to be healthy. Period. No if's, and's, or but's about it. I just can't trust CP3 to stay healthy for the next 6 years.

Pierzynski4Prez
10-15-2010, 03:05 PM
I gotta say Deron until we can see that CP3 is playing at the same level he was before the injury

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 03:09 PM
There really should be zero discussion as to the fact that CP3 is the single best basketball player on this list. However, to start a team for the next 6 years?

Give me Deron Williams. I need my franchise PG to be healthy. Period. No if's, and's, or but's about it. I just can't trust CP3 to stay healthy for the next 6 years.

see, now this is a rational post that makes sense. Admitting that to date, Deron can't touch CP3. However, factoring in a "possible" scenario, that Paul can't stay healthy for a number of years on that knee.

The[chi][town]
10-15-2010, 03:16 PM
Dwill is nasty

The_Mac22
10-15-2010, 03:21 PM
Stephen Curry >>>>

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 03:29 PM
Stephen Curry >>>>

then who?

FadeAwayLikeMJ
10-15-2010, 03:32 PM
You would really pick Rondo over Paul and Williams? :laugh2:

already got him holmes, im a Celtics fan. and i wouldnt trade him for either.

beasted86
10-15-2010, 03:32 PM
Chris Paul is the prototype.

Pass first, true leader, humble, can still be a top scorer on the team, puts in the effort defensively.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 03:44 PM
No, he does not. He doesn't lead his team.



Rebounding and defense are not that important for point guards.



Nope. He has never averaged 10 assists per game, while Paul has averaged over ten in the last three seasons. He isn't a better ball handler either.



Not a big deal. And his rebounding, outside of the first round series against the Bulls a year ago, is not that great.



Uh, don't bring up statistics because Paul destroys Rondo there.



Rondo is such a great all around player that the Lakers left him wide open and he still couldn't hit his shots. Rondo is such a great all around player that he shot his free throws in the Finals like Ben Wallace with a blindfold on.

Rebounding and defense are not important for PG's? Scoring is not important for PG's. Rondo doesn't lead his team? Rondo was the only reason that team went to the finals last year. Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce both had off years. Rondo is the leader of that team. You must be soft as a grape? Don't bring up stats because Paul destroys Rondo? What in scoring? PG's are ball distributors. Paul has one better stat over Rondo and that's scoring. Rondo is just as good as dishing the ball. Twice as good as of a defender and a way better rebounder. Now how does Paul's stats destroy Rondo's. Do you watch basketball at all or do you just know Chris Paul from watching the highlights? Seriously dude you don't have a clue.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 03:50 PM
Rebounding and defense are not important for PG's? Scoring is not important for PG's. Rondo doesn't lead his team? Rondo was the only reason that team went to the finals last year. Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce both had off years. Rondo is the leader of that team. You must be soft as a grape? Don't bring up stats because Paul destroys Rondo? What in scoring? PG's are ball distributors. Paul has one better stat over Rondo and that's scoring. Rondo is just as good as dishing the ball. Twice as good as of a defender and a way better rebounder. Now how does Paul's stats destroy Rondo's. Do you watch basketball at all or do you just know Chris Paul from watching the highlights? Seriously dude you don't have a clue.

please re-read post #85 of this thread if you are still confused. You are actually beginning to make outright false claims.

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 03:51 PM
out of this list give me rondo he's all about winning and making his team mates perform better and is not all about his stats

WadeKobe
10-15-2010, 03:51 PM
see, now this is a rational post that makes sense. Admitting that to date, Deron can't touch CP3. However, factoring in a "possible" scenario, that Paul can't stay healthy for a number of years on that knee.

I try Hawkeye. I used to actually post really rational stuff all the time. Then I just lost my patience with the homerism/haterism and just kinda started posting snarky quips all the time. Then I just left. Trying to ease back into it.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 03:53 PM
I try Hawkeye. I used to actually post really rational stuff all the time. Then I just lost my patience with the homerism/haterism and just kinda started posting snarky quips all the time. Then I just left. Trying to ease back into it.

I haven't seen posts out of you that cry out imature. haha

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 03:54 PM
out of this list give me rondo he's all about winning and making his team mates perform better and is not all about his stats

what does this mean? Because Rondo is on a team with more talent and health than the others, you reward him? haha. mmkay

John Walls Era
10-15-2010, 03:59 PM
You could make a case for Rondo, Chris Paul and Deron. But its Deron for me. I would also rather have Rondo over Chris Paul. Its only Chris' 5th season and hes breaking down...

beasted86
10-15-2010, 04:03 PM
Rebounding and defense are not important for PG's? Scoring is not important for PG's. Rondo doesn't lead his team? Rondo was the only reason that team went to the finals last year. Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce both had off years. Rondo is the leader of that team. You must be soft as a grape? Don't bring up stats because Paul destroys Rondo? What in scoring? PG's are ball distributors. Paul has one better stat over Rondo and that's scoring. Rondo is just as good as dishing the ball. Twice as good as of a defender and a way better rebounder. Now how does Paul's stats destroy Rondo's. Do you watch basketball at all or do you just know Chris Paul from watching the highlights? Seriously dude you don't have a clue.

There is just so much wrong here I don't know where to start.... and I won't if you are that deluded.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 04:11 PM
There is just so much wrong here I don't know where to start.... and I won't if you are that deluded.

What is wrong your telling me that Rondo is not a better defender and rebounder than Chris Paul? Funny because every sportswriter in the country knows that. Are you telling me Rondo didn't lead that Celtics team last year? Without him they wouldn't have made the finals. If Rondo played for a team with less talent his scoring would go way up so I don't understand how you can use that against him. If he played for the Hornets we would average 20 ppg. He plays for the Celtics and averages 18. You don't have a clue. You basketball IQ is non existent dude. Stop typing because u get stupider with every post.

OnslaughtXX6
10-15-2010, 04:14 PM
For me, it's a toss up between Paul and Williams.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 04:15 PM
What is wrong your telling me that Rondo is not a better defender and rebounder than Chris Paul? Funny because every sportswriter in the country knows that. Are you telling me Rondo didn't lead that Celtics team last year? Without him they wouldn't have made the finals. If Rondo played for a team with less talent his scoring would go way up so I don't understand how you can use that against him. If he played for the Hornets we would average 20 ppg. He plays for the Celtics and averages 18. You don't have a clue. You basketball IQ is non existent dude. Stop typing because u get stupider with every post.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4149

What are you talking about? Are you trying to be a smart alec? Rondo's per game averages are nothing of what you speak of. I JUST SHOWED you in post #85 that Paul has been a better rebounder, and a lot better defensive rebounder. Without Pierce they wouldn't have made the finals. Without KG they wouldn't have made the finals. What is the point you are trying to make?
And then you throw in, "if he played for the Hornets, he would average 20 ppg". How on earth do you plan on proving that?
You are killin yourself in this debate man.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 04:20 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4149

What are you talking about? Are you trying to be a smart alec? Rondo's per game averages are nothing of what you speak of. I JUST SHOWED you in post #85 that Paul has been a better rebounder, and a lot better defensive rebounder. Without Pierce they wouldn't have made the finals. Without KG they wouldn't have made the finals. What is the point you are trying to make?
And then you throw in, "if he played for the Hornets, he would average 20 ppg". How on earth do you plan on proving that?
You are killin yourself in this debate man.

KG and Pierce were not the reason the Celtics made the finals. KG did nothing and Pierce was off. If anything it was Rondo and Ray Allen and anyone who watched the whole C's playoff run will tell u the same. It's the truth. If Rondo averages 14ppg with the Celtics you don't think he would average 6 more ppg for the Hornets if he was the main guy like Chris Paul is. If u believe that he wouldn't your nuts.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 04:27 PM
You are a fool if you think Chris Paul is a better defender and rebounder than Rondo. KG and Pierce were not the reason the Celtics made the finals. KG did nothing and Pierce was off. If anything it was Rondo and Ray Allen and anyone who watched the whole C's playoff run will tell u the same. I don't know why your so butt hurt that Rondo is a better defender and rebounder than Chris Paul. It's the truth. If Rondo averages 14ppg with the Celtics you don't think he would average 6 more ppg for the Hornets if he was the main guy like Chris Paul is. If u believe that he wouldn't your nuts.

nah, I use physical evidence versus speculation. Which is how you win debates, as I have demonstrated in ours. Continue to post speculation and false statements like Rondo averges 18 ppg for the Celtics, which is clearly not true. And again, please SHOW me how Rondo is a better defender when Paul's numbers show he is.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 04:28 PM
Paul is indeed a good man defender, and plays transition defense exceptionally. On a side note, how are you attempting to quantify defense? How can you prove outside the public perception that Rondo is such a better defender? You can't.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ulch01&y3=2010

Rondo is barely, and I mean barely, a better rebounder than either (last season). Even in Paul's injury plagued year, he assisted at a greater rate of possessions. Paul is actually a better defensive rebounder. Passing lanes? How do you think Rondo gets steals haha. Pauls offensive rating takes a complete dump on Rondo. Deron's as well.

For kicks, let post Deron and Rondo's numbers and throw in Paul's 08-09' season, of which we should expect to see this year

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...dora01&y3=2010

This is where we enter laughable world. Paul is indeed a better rebounder than either. He assisted on 55% of all possessions he was in the game, which is 10% higher than either Rondo or Deron's career high. He has MORE defensive win shares than either. His offensive rating destroys both. Why, cause unlike Rondo, he actually doesn't throw the ball away inexcusably twice a game, on top of normal expected turnover rate. He has the same defensive rating, despite Rondo having his rating benefited by a top 4 defense. Combine Paul's usage and turnover rate vs the other two, and offensively, there is such a gap, we would have to be talking Gary Payton defense versus Jonny Flynn defensive difference to make up the ground.

In Rondo's best year to date, he had 9.6 win shares, half of those defensive. Paul had 18.3 win shares, and a higher defensive contribution. Playing with KG, Perk, behind your back allows you to crowd the ball, so it appears Rondo is a shut down defender, when in reality, he is a disruptive passing lane player as you claim Paul is.

So to recap, of your 4 statistics:

Offense: Paul
Passing: Paul
Rebounding: Paul
Defense: Can't prove Rondo or Paul is better

Peace


PLEASE RE-READ THIS WHOLE POST, INCLUDING THE LINKS. If you still have trouble processing these stats, let me know and I will explain them a bit easier for you

Hellcrooner
10-15-2010, 04:30 PM
there are only 4 players in the nba bubble right now who can play traditional Pg anymore.

two of them suck on defense two of them suck in odffense.

thats quite aproblem to build around theme as leaders of the team...
Nash, Calderon ;Kidd, rubio

DaBUU
10-15-2010, 04:32 PM
maybe i dont appreciate Paul enough, my judgment is tinted by his injuries i guess. I think the bigger of the guards hold up over time.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 04:33 PM
nah, I use physical evidence versus speculation. Which is how you win debates, as I have demonstrated in ours. Continue to post speculation and false statements like Rondo averges 18 ppg for the Celtics, which is clearly not true. And again, please SHOW me how Rondo is a better defender when Paul's numbers show he is.

Rondo is a better defender than Paul. That's why he made the defensive team and Chris Paul never will. So that's not me saying he's a better defender. That's the entire NBA. Just smoked ya homie.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 04:34 PM
Rondo is a better defender than Paul. That's why he made the defensive team and Chris Paul never will. So that's not me saying he's a better defender. That's the entire NBA. Just smoked ya homie.

hahaha. Now you are using awards hahahaha. This just keeps getting better.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 04:37 PM
hahaha. Now you are using awards hahahaha. This just keeps getting better.

How else to you judge a players defensive skill. If the NBA says Rondo is the best defensive PG in the NBA who the **** are you to say he's not? Seriously?

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 04:41 PM
How else to you judge a players defensive skill. If the NBA says Rondo is the best defensive PG in the NBA who the **** are you to say he's not? Seriously?

I am not saying anything of the sort. But you act as if there is this huge gap in Rondo's defense and all others, when that is completely ridiculous. Paul is an exceptional defender. Even IF I believe there was a good gap between the two defensively, which there isn't, at most there is a small one, there is such a monster gap between them offensively, that its not even a contest on who the better player is. Even a gimpy Paul was better. A healthy Paul blows Rondo's doors off as a player. Did you even read my post, or open the links? If you did, and you continue to fight this, it means you don't have the simplest understanding on how to read stats.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 04:42 PM
I would like to add, I rarely, if ever, factor in media and voted awards into player evaluations. Nash won 2 MVP's. There is no way in this universe he was the best player in the NBA at any given time.

PrettyBoyJ
10-15-2010, 04:43 PM
D-Will, his size, speed, ball handling and decision making is the best in the league I would def. want him on my team

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 04:43 PM
my biggest problem with your posts McLovin is this- you claim he is a better rebounder. FALSE. You claim he is a better passer. FALSE. You claim he would score 20 a night on the Hornets. FALSE. You provide false posts, with nothing but a voted award to back up 1/4 of your claims.

beasted86
10-15-2010, 04:47 PM
What is wrong your telling me that Rondo is not a better defender and rebounder than Chris Paul? Funny because every sportswriter in the country knows that. Are you telling me Rondo didn't lead that Celtics team last year? Without him they wouldn't have made the finals. If Rondo played for a team with less talent his scoring would go way up so I don't understand how you can use that against him. If he played for the Hornets we would average 20 ppg. He plays for the Celtics and averages 18. You don't have a clue. You basketball IQ is non existent dude. Stop typing because u get stupider with every post.

And when I thought it couldn't get crazier...

I'm really trying to figure out the player you've been describing though this thread. The guy who averages 18 PPG, and averages as many assists as Chris Paul, and is a "way" better rebounder than Chris Paul, and "twice" the defender. Who is this guy?

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 04:52 PM
And when I thought it couldn't get crazier...

I'm really trying to figure out the player you've been describing though this thread. The guy who averages 18 PPG, and averages as many assists as Chris Paul, and is a "way" better rebounder than Chris Paul, and "twice" the defender. Who is this guy?

Chris Paul is twice the defender and a way better rebounder? LOL. Your just digging yourself a deeper grave man. You have no clue. Why was Rondo on the all defensive team? Do you know more than the whole NBA does? Give me a break. Rondo almost averaged a triple double for an entire 7 game series. When Chris Paul does that give me a call.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 04:53 PM
my biggest problem with your posts McLovin is this- you claim he is a better rebounder. FALSE. You claim he is a better passer. FALSE. You claim he would score 20 a night on the Hornets. FALSE. You provide false posts, with nothing but a voted award to back up 1/4 of your claims.

Rondo averages more rpg every year. How is he not a better rebounder?

beasted86
10-15-2010, 04:55 PM
Chris Paul is twice the defender and a way better rebounder? LOL. Your just digging yourself a deeper grave man. You have no clue. Why was Rondo on the all defensive team? Do you know more than the whole NBA does? Give me a break. Rondo almost averaged a triple double for an entire 7 game series. When Chris Paul does that give me a call. Until then shut your mouth because you sound foolish.


Rondo averages more rpg every year. How is he not a better rebounder?

Yeah, you just Reynold's wrapped this debate. You obviously have NO CLUE what you are talking about.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 04:55 PM
I would like to add, I rarely, if ever, factor in media and voted awards into player evaluations. Nash won 2 MVP's. There is no way in this universe he was the best player in the NBA at any given time.

OK. With that statement right there you just proved that you don't know anything about basketball. Steve Nash was easily the best player in the league the 2 years he won MVP. The margains weren't even close.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 04:56 PM
Rondo averages more rpg every year. How is he not a better rebounder?

thank you for confirming you have no grasp of how to understand stats. until next time...

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 04:56 PM
OK. With that statement right there you just proved that you don't know anything about basketball. Steve Nash was easily the best player in the league the 2 years he won MVP. The margains weren't even close.

hahaha, how have I not come across you before?

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 04:57 PM
Ask Laker fans who the best player was over the time period that Nash won 2 MVP's.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 05:01 PM
Yeah, you just Reynold's wrapped this debate. You obviously have NO CLUE what you are talking about.

OK pay attention. You might learn something. Pay real close attention because your just might miss it. Look at the minute per game too. Rondo averaged more rebounds per game in less minutes and more steals in less minutes and averaged 9.8 assists and Chris Paul averaged 10 but again Rondo played less minutes.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_paul/career_stats.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rajon_rondo/career_stats.html

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 05:03 PM
OK pay attention. You might learn something. Pay real close attention because your just might miss it. Look at the minute per game too. Rondo averaged more rebounds per game in less minutes and more steals in less minutes and averaged 9.8 assists and Chris Paul averaged 10 but again Rondo played less minutes.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_paul/career_stats.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rajon_rondo/career_stats.html

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535884

study up, then attempt this again if you want to argue stats.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 05:07 PM
thank you for confirming you have no grasp of how to understand stats. until next time...

You don't have a clue. Dude I had a full basketball scholarship to Holy Cross. I've played in the NCAA tournament twice. In 2001 we were the 15th seed and lost to Kentucky 72-68 and in 2002 as the 16th seed we were beating Kansas at halftime and almost pulled off the upset against them an they went all the way to the final four. I was a major part of those two teams so I'm pretty sure I know more about the sport than you.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 05:12 PM
You don't have a clue. Dude I had a full basketball scholarship to Holy Cross. I've played in the NCAA tournament twice. In 2001 we were the 15th seed and lost to Kentucky 72-68 and in 2002 as the 16th seed we were beating Kansas at halftime and almost pulled off the upset against them an they went all the way to the final four. I was a major part of those two teams so I'm pretty sure I know more about the sport than you.

is this supposed to impress me? Like I said, study up. Or continue to look like you don't know what you are talking about. You couldn't even get his basic PPG right, which is listed on probably 100 sites.
I will choose not to share my background with you. Could care less to do so

heyman321
10-15-2010, 05:18 PM
Prime Jason Kidd.

D-Will4Prez
10-15-2010, 05:19 PM
Chris Paul's defense is severely overrated. If you're talking man defense no steals included, CP3 is worse than most. Have Chris Paul defend any of the premier PGs in the league and you will see him get destroyed every time. Not to say he won't put up good/great offensive stats against any player but he gives up many points as well.

Steals not included, Rondo is the best man defender in the league. D-Will's defense is underrated (again, because of the steals issue) but it's definitely not stellar.

That being said, I'd take D-Will over any of them, he's the leader of a great (see:winning) team, calls most of the plays himself (something not even John Stockton did), is more durable(only missed 24 (to cp3's 63) games in his career including rookie season) and has a more complete all-around game than almost any other player in the game. That's right, 63 missed games in 5 seasons. /end rant

godolphins
10-15-2010, 05:21 PM
I'm going with Chris Paul if he can stay healthy.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 05:23 PM
is this supposed to impress me? Like I said, study up. Or continue to look like you don't know what you are talking about. You couldn't even get his basic PPG right, which is listed on probably 100 sites.
I will choose not to share my background with you. Could care less to do so

You need to study up because anyone Chris Paul is a better defender/rebounder than Rondo has no basketball IQ what-so-ever.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 05:23 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=kiddja01&y1=2010&p2=nashst01&y2=2010&p3=paulch01&y3=2010&p4=stockjo01&y4=2003

just for fun, here is a career comparison of Kidd, Stockton, Paul, and Nash. Even with a poor supporting cast all but 1.5 years, Paul has a higher PER, WS/48, the lowest turnover rate, only Kidd was a better rebounder, only Stockton assisted more, Paul and Stockton are tied with the highest offensive rating. Unfortunately we only have a sample size of 17 games for the playoffs, but in those 17 games, Paul has performed the best of the 4 statistically.

Food for thought

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 05:25 PM
Chris Paul's defense is severely overrated. If you're talking man defense no steals included, CP3 is worse than most. Have Chris Paul defend any of the premier PGs in the league and you will see him get destroyed every time. Not to say he won't put up good/great offensive stats against any player but he gives up many points as well.

Steals not included, Rondo is the best man defender in the league. D-Will's defense is underrated (again, because of the steals issue) but it's definitely not stellar.

That being said, I'd take D-Will over any of them, he's the leader of a great (see:winning) team, calls most of the plays himself (something not even John Stockton did), is more durable(only missed 24 (to cp3's 63) games in his career including rookie season) and has a more complete all-around game than almost any other player in the game. That's right, 63 missed games in 5 seasons. /end rant

Thank you. Finally someone who knows basketball. Chris Paul gets steals by jumping passing lanes. He's a terrible man defender. Thank God someone finally gets it.

dodie53
10-15-2010, 05:31 PM
deron for me.

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 05:43 PM
what does this mean? Because Rondo is on a team with more talent and health than the others, you reward him? haha. mmkay

what are you talking about? ahaha look at your trying to discredit a CHAMPION and how are the celtics always healthy? they always have someone getting injured and Rondo is the only one you can count on being healthy..please try WATCHING the celtics game before you try to argue with me about Rondo being a leader on the celtics..even his teammates have gave him credit for leading them if you don't understand this then i don't know ..lay off them boxscores

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 05:48 PM
what are you talking about? ahaha look at your trying to discredit a CHAMPION and how are the celtics always healthy? they always have someone getting injured and Rondo is the only one you can count on being healthy..please try WATCHING the celtics game before you try to argue with me about Rondo being a leader on the celtics..even his teammates have gave him credit for leading them if you don't understand this then i don't know ..lay off them boxscores

more talent than Utah, and healthier than the Hornets (also more talent btw). If you would like to use roster support and a ring to validate your guy, go right ahead. Its a weak argument filled with holes.

it cracks me up that the only retort many of you have is that I need to watch the game. I watch more basketball than you can fathom.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 05:49 PM
and my point was, Paul and Williams are both the clear but leaders of their teams, so not sure what Rondo being the leader of his team does for your argument.

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 05:53 PM
more talent than Utah, and healthier than the Hornets (also more talent btw). If you would like to use roster support and a ring to validate your guy, go right ahead. Its a weak argument filled with holes.

it cracks me up that the only retort many of you have is that I need to watch the game. I watch more basketball than you can fathom.

When trying to discredit Rondo people like to big up the "big three" but when trying to bring down the celtics its always "oh they're too old they can't walk without their canes!" Rondo is a baller and he plays with heart and makes sure his teammates get involved while playing very hard on defense if you don't see that or you can't understand that then i don't know what to tell you

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 05:55 PM
what are you talking about? ahaha look at your trying to discredit a CHAMPION and how are the celtics always healthy? they always have someone getting injured and Rondo is the only one you can count on being healthy..please try WATCHING the celtics game before you try to argue with me about Rondo being a leader on the celtics..even his teammates have gave him credit for leading them if you don't understand this then i don't know ..lay off them boxscores

Thank you. Another person who knows basketball. I was beginning to think I was dealing with a bunch of grade school students that don't have a clue.

leoncito
10-15-2010, 06:44 PM
CP3 all day long

76erEaglePhils
10-15-2010, 06:52 PM
Deron Williams is my favortie pg in the league and I see none better.

Ty Fast
10-15-2010, 06:57 PM
cp3

FadeAwayLikeMJ
10-15-2010, 07:03 PM
yall can keep throwing numbers..

im still gonna pick Rondo.

the only number i care about is that he puts in that 110% regardless of the score or the opponent.

dude wants to play. he dont say "i dont like my teamates, trade me to New York"

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 07:08 PM
yall can keep throwing numbers..

Im still gonna pick rondo.

The only number i care about is that he puts in that 110% regardless of the score or the opponent.

Dude wants to play. He dont say "i dont like my teamates, trade me to new york"

+1

Katspinal1313
10-15-2010, 07:08 PM
Ok I didn't read all the pages and I'll assume someone asked this question already but is there a reason Billups isn't on this list? I wouldn't say Billups is number 1 but he's way better than some of these babies on the list, plus the question is way too vanilla, what situation is my team in that Im picking my PG, am I starting a franchise or in position to be a contender. Rose if Im starting out and Deron if I want to win this year.

John Walls Era
10-15-2010, 07:28 PM
If people actually watch the Jazz, they would go with Deron. He does it all and just as good as Chris Paul. CP3's D is alright, but thats because he plays the passing lanes aggressively. As for Rondo, Paul might be a tiny bit better at scoring, but Rondo plays better defense and is a better playmaker (I know people will argue with this, but its true).

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 08:31 PM
When trying to discredit Rondo people like to big up the "big three" but when trying to bring down the celtics its always "oh they're too old they can't walk without their canes!" Rondo is a baller and he plays with heart and makes sure his teammates get involved while playing very hard on defense if you don't see that or you can't understand that then i don't know what to tell you

I have absolutely no clue what your point is. I said they have more talent and health. That goes for 2008, and 2010.
Rondo, individually, can't touch Paul or Deron. The conversation for Rondo starts at #3, one I would then be willing to entertain

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 08:32 PM
yall can keep throwing numbers..

im still gonna pick Rondo.

the only number i care about is that he puts in that 110% regardless of the score or the opponent.

dude wants to play. he dont say "i dont like my teamates, trade me to New York"

playing hard is your argument? mmkay

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 08:33 PM
Paul
.
.
.
Deron
.
.
.
.
.
.
Nash/Billups/Rondo
.
.
Rose/Westbrook
.
.
who cares

Baller1
10-15-2010, 08:33 PM
I have absolutely no clue what your point is. I said they have more talent and health. That goes for 2008, and 2010.
Rondo, individually, can't touch Paul or Deron. The conversation for Rondo starts at #3, one I would then be willing to entertain

Exactly.

I haven't read everything, but I'm assuming they're arguing a case for Rondo being the best PG to pick.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 08:36 PM
Exactly.

I haven't read everything, but I'm assuming they're arguing a case for Rondo being the best PG to pick.

no need to read it all. You hit it on the head. Paul and Deron are the class of the NBA, and then #3 starts. Of which I can still see Nash ahead of Rondo quite frankly

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 08:43 PM
the question is if we could have ONE of these guys for the NEXT 6 YEARS not who was better back then it's from now and the future and I choose Rondo his future's bright plus he hasn't missed major time due to injury

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 08:49 PM
the question is if we could have ONE of these guys for the NEXT 6 YEARS not who was better back then it's from now and the future and I choose Rondo his future's bright plus he hasn't missed major time due to injury

Deron is 25, hasn't missed time, and is much better. I will wait to give my future opinion until about game 30 for Paul, but if you wanted to play your opinion that way, state it initially. Because if we are going off their careers to date, there isn't even a questions as to #1, and #2.

John Walls Era
10-15-2010, 08:51 PM
Paul
.
.
.
Deron
.
.
.
.
.
.
Nash/Billups/Rondo
.
.
Rose/Westbrook
.
.
who cares

What is this based on? Stats?

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 08:54 PM
the question is if we could have ONE of these guys for the NEXT 6 YEARS not who was better back then it's from now and the future and I choose Rondo his future's bright plus he hasn't missed major time due to injury

Exactly. Rondo takes more hard hits then anyone in the league and is never injured. He's the best on ball defensive PG in basketball and anyone that argues that obviously doesn't watch many Celtics games. Chris Paul gets a lot of steal by jumping passing lanes. Rondo gets more steals by picking people's pockets and jumping the passing lane. The question was who would you pick if you could have one PG on your team and if people believe Rondo is the guy they would want when who the **** is this guy Hawkeye15 to say anything? Some people would rather have their PG be a scorer. I personally would rather have my PG be a great defender, distributor, and rebounder. Everyone has the right to their own opinion but, Rondo being a better defender than Chris Paul is not opinion. That's a straight fact and anyone that knows anything about basketball will say that Rondo is a better defender than Chris Paul. That's really not debatable.

llemon
10-15-2010, 08:58 PM
I think this thread went far astray of what it was intended to be.

I believe what the person that started the thread really was asking........

"If you could pick one point guard's nose, whose nose would it be"?

Bishnoff
10-15-2010, 08:59 PM
D Williams for me, I like his overall game more than CP3, in their prime though, nash dominates all.

This.

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 09:05 PM
Exactly. Rondo takes more hard hits then anyone in the league and is never injured. He's the best on ball defensive PG in basketball and anyone that argues that obviously doesn't watch many Celtics games. Chris Paul gets a lot of steal by jumping passing lanes. Rondo gets more steals by picking people's pockets and jumping the passing lane. The question was who would you pick if you could have one PG on your team and if people believe Rondo is the guy they would want when who the **** is this guy Hawkeye15 to say anything? Some people would rather have their PG be a scorer. I personally would rather have my PG be a great defender, distributor, and rebounder. Everyone has the right to their own opinion but, Rondo being a better defender than Chris Paul is not opinion. That's a straight fact and anyone that knows anything about basketball will say that Rondo is a better defender than Chris Paul. That's really not debatable.

yes Rondo's on ball defense is great I was watching him in preseason this year and jrue holiday couldn't even get passed rondo ..Rondo just picked him clean he has good footwork and big hands

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 09:07 PM
What is this based on? Stats?

based on a lot of things. Who makes the players around them better. West was an 8/6 role player until Paul showed up. Peja's career flipped around. Chandler discovered offense. These are not mysteries as to why.
Same for Deron.


Who did Rondo make better? His career spike came when he GOT help. Nash makes those around him much better, but his defense puts him out of the conversation for top 2. Offensively, he is unreal.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 09:10 PM
Exactly. Rondo takes more hard hits then anyone in the league and is never injured. He's the best on ball defensive PG in basketball and anyone that argues that obviously doesn't watch many Celtics games. Chris Paul gets a lot of steal by jumping passing lanes. Rondo gets more steals by picking people's pockets and jumping the passing lane. The question was who would you pick if you could have one PG on your team and if people believe Rondo is the guy they would want when who the **** is this guy Hawkeye15 to say anything? Some people would rather have their PG be a scorer. I personally would rather have my PG be a great defender, distributor, and rebounder. Everyone has the right to their own opinion but, Rondo being a better defender than Chris Paul is not opinion. That's a straight fact and anyone that knows anything about basketball will say that Rondo is a better defender than Chris Paul. That's really not debatable.

Um, Rondo is arguably a better defender than Paul, sure. But the gap between them offensively is like falling off a cliff. You continue to brag about how much you know without providing anything but your personal accomplishments in the game of basketball, which nobody cares about. Here is simple way for you, if you will

Defense
Rondo>Paul

Offense
Paul>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rondo

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 09:10 PM
based on a lot of things. Who makes the players around them better. West was an 8/6 role player until Paul showed up. Peja's career flipped around. Chandler discovered offense. These are not mysteries as to why.
Same for Deron.


Who did Rondo make better? His career spike came when he GOT help. Nash makes those around him much better, but his defense puts him out of the conversation for top 2. Offensively, he is unreal.

You don't watch many Celtics games do you. Rondo's rookie year before KG and Ray Allen were even on the team Rondo showed flashes of becoming a great player that season. You could tell that he was going to be great.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 09:10 PM
yes Rondo's on ball defense is great I was watching him in preseason this year and jrue holiday couldn't even get passed rondo ..Rondo just picked him clean he has good footwork and big hands

I stand down. If Jrue Holiday couldn't beat him, then Stockton or Magic couldn't have

kblo247
10-15-2010, 09:11 PM
Williams takes it easily from a talent and value standpoint.

Paul has talent, but his value is less because he hasn't played a full season yet in his career. Jennings has the talent as well but his game is so similar to Van Exel's that I just have to say no because it doesn't win in the long route. Rose makes the best runner up, but he simply isn't as complete as Deron.

As for the other name that stands out,Tyreke Evans. He shouldn't be on there at all because he plays worse at PG and needs Udrih out there to facilitate the O full time because he is a SG that can play spot PG minutes.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 09:12 PM
You don't watch many Celtics games do you. Rondo's rookie year before KG and Ray Allen were even on the team Rondo showed flashes of becoming a great player that season. You could tell that he was going to be great.

look at my sig. KG plays for the C's. I watch 25+ games a year, and every playoff game.
And again, when all else fails, most of you say, "I know I have been beat around here statistically, so I will pull the old "watch the game!" argument"

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 09:12 PM
Williams takes it easily from a talent and value standpoint.

Paul has talent, but his value is less because he hasn't played a full season yet in his career. Jennings has the talent as well but his game is so similar to Van Exel's that I just have to say no because it doesn't win in the long route. Rose makes the best runner up, but he simply isn't as complete as Deron.

As for the other name that stands out,Tyreke Evans. He shouldn't be on there at all because he plays worse at PG and needs Udrih out there to facilitate the O full time because he is a SG that can play spot PG minutes.

Evans played most his minutes at SG, and if he wants to become a great player, should continue to do so

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 09:14 PM
You don't watch many Celtics games do you. Rondo's rookie year before KG and Ray Allen were even on the team Rondo showed flashes of becoming a great player that season. You could tell that he was going to be great.

to address your point, showing flashes of greatness is awesome, but when you are inefficient, and are routinely pulled from the floor due to being a complete liability offensively, pardon me for not caring.

kblo247
10-15-2010, 09:14 PM
I stand down. If Jrue Holiday couldn't beat him, then Stockton or Magic couldn't have

You were right when you said Rondo's on ball D isn't great. It is good but not great as he struggles staying in front of guys (his long arms let him steal and poke balls loose to make up for it though). He also has problems when he gets picked (see the Finals where Fish and Kobe just ran pick and roll on him in game 3).

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 09:15 PM
I stand down. If Jrue Holiday couldn't beat him, then Stockton or Magic couldn't have

yes because i compared jrue holiday to magic johnson..:facepalm: i just gave an example and i remember rondo schooling paul and chris paul was crying to the media the next day saying " oh rondo was talking trash" lol he isn't as mentally strong as rondo for sure that's why the nuggets shut him down with d.jones and took him out the first round easy


look at my sig. KG plays for the C's. I watch 25+ games a year, and every playoff game.
And again, when all else fails, most of you say, "I know I have been beat around here statistically, so I will pull the old "watch the game!" argument"

i watch 82 +

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 09:18 PM
Um, Rondo is arguably a better defender than Paul, sure. But the gap between them offensively is like falling off a cliff. You continue to brag about how much you know without providing anything but your personal accomplishments in the game of basketball, which nobody cares about. Here is simple way for you, if you will

Defense
Rondo>Paul

Offense
Paul>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rondo

Defense
Rondo>Paul

Rebounding
Rondo>Paul

Passing
Rondo=Paul

Offense
Paul<Rondo

People have the right to pick who they would rather have running their team at the PG position and the people that pick Rondo like him because he's like Jason Kidd. He does a little bit of everything. Jason Kidd wasn't a great shooter his first few seasons and has become better over the years and he is one of the top 5 greatest PG's of all time IMO. If Rondo needs to score trust me he can and he can do it at will. Most PG's have to have a guy come to the top of the key to set a screen for them to get into the lane. Rondo just blows by defenders like nothing to get into the lane and when he gets in there hes great at getting contact and still hitting the shot. I would take Rondo on my team over any other PG in the league and I have the right to. It's my personal decision. Rondo is my type of PG. I like Chris Paul as well but I like Rondo's game better. It's as simple as that.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 09:22 PM
yes because i compared jrue holiday to magic johnson..:facepalm: i just gave an example and i remember rondo schooling paul and chris paul was crying to the media the next day saying " oh rondo was talking trash" lol he isn't as mentally strong as rondo for sure that's why the nuggets shut him down with d.jones and took him out the first round easy



i watch 82 +

I watch all the Celtics games as well. You can't just look at Rondo's stats and say Chris Paul is better. If you watched Rondo every game like we both people would realize how good he really is. I've seen Rondo do things that I've never seen any PG ever do before. He's a complete PG and the people who say he's nothing without the big 3 are so far off it's not even funny. He carried the Celtics team on his back all last year straight to the finals and yes every time he plays Chris Paul he definitely gets the better of him

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 09:28 PM
I'm watching the Celtics preseason game right now and Rondo is 12-15 from the FT line. He gets better offensively every year and he's already so good defensively, such a good rebounder, and a great passer. He's getting better every year at shooting just like Jason Kidd did. Kidd was never a great shooter but was always great at everything else and his shot and FT shooting came around and he will go down as 1 of the top 5 greatest PG's of all time. Rondo works so hard so you know he's just going to keep improving which is scary because he's already so good.

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 09:30 PM
I watch all the Celtics games as well. You can't just look at Rondo's stats and say Chris Paul is better. If you watched Rondo every game like we both people would realize how good he really is. I've seen Rondo do things that I've never seen any PG ever do before. He's a complete PG and the people who say he's nothing without the big 3 are so far off it's not even funny. He carried the Celtics team on his back all last year straight to the finals and yes every time he plays Chris Paul he definitely gets the better of him

+1 and scoring shouldn't be used to discredit Rondo because he doesn't take as many shots because he doesn't need to the team is well rounded and he's fine with his role getting everyone involved plus when we saw kg go down in 09 he started to score his a$s off and averaged 20 along with a triple double against the bulls

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 09:35 PM
+1 and scoring shouldn't be used to discredit Rondo because he doesn't take as many shots because he doesn't need to the team is well rounded and he's fine with his role getting everyone involved plus when we saw kg go down in 09 he started to score his a$s off and averaged 20 along with a triple double against the bulls

Exactly. Chris Paul could never average a triple double in a 7 game series. The only guys who could ever do that are Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Lebron James, Jason Kidd, and Rajon Rondo. I'm not putting Rondo up there in the Hall of Fame with those players but he has an incredible set of skills. From watching every Celtics game and how easily he knives through defenses to get to the basket I know if he played for a team that wasn't as good as the Celtics that he would average close to 20 ppg.

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 09:53 PM
yes because i compared jrue holiday to magic johnson..:facepalm: i just gave an example and i remember rondo schooling paul and chris paul was crying to the media the next day saying " oh rondo was talking trash" lol he isn't as mentally strong as rondo for sure that's why the nuggets shut him down with d.jones and took him out the first round easy



i watch 82 +

good for you. My sample size of watching is plenty. So, in response to your number, if you EVER respond to anything Wolves, I will dismiss you immediately.

Makes sense, right????

Since you posed a question, here is one. If the C's had not traded for KG and Ray, would the general fan know a lot about Rajon Rondo or Perk?

Not really

Hawkeye15
10-15-2010, 09:54 PM
you guys have fun high fiving in the land of irrational. lata

Htownballa1622
10-15-2010, 10:01 PM
Deron williams for me.numbers are nice.rings are nice.but this is for the next six years so I'm going with dwill based off what he is,potential,and injury.

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 10:03 PM
good for you. My sample size of watching is plenty. So, in response to your number, if you EVER respond to anything Wolves, I will dismiss you immediately.

Makes sense, right????

Since you posed a question, here is one. If the C's had not traded for KG and Ray, would the general fan know a lot about Rajon Rondo or Perk?

Not really

I've spoken to a lot of people in these forums that don't have a clue but you take the cake man. Your basketball IQ is as low as anyone I've ever seen. Rondo can get to the basket and score at will. That has nothing to do with the Big 3. That's his speed, athleticism, and his ability to finish in traffic. All through the playoffs last year every commentator said that this is Rondo's team. Rondo is the leader of this team now. Without Rondo this team would have never beat the Cavs in the 2nd round and I didn't even need to hear everyone say that because I saw it with my own two eyes. You could tell he was a special player his rookie year before KG and Ray were even there. Everybody knows that Rondo being as good as he is has nothing to do with the players around him except for you. His hard work and determination are what makes him great. When the Celtics take Pierce, Allen, and KG out and let Rondo play with the 2nd unit he completely takes over the game and they had to do that a lot last year because the only other back up PG Nate Robinson was in Doc's doghouse. Rondo is a special talent no matter who is on the floor with him.

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 10:09 PM
good for you. My sample size of watching is plenty. So, in response to your number, if you EVER respond to anything Wolves, I will dismiss you immediately.

Makes sense, right????

Since you posed a question, here is one. If the C's had not traded for KG and Ray, would the general fan know a lot about Rajon Rondo or Perk?

Not really

ok but they did get traded so who cares? if michael jordan didn't come back from baseball would he be the greatest? smh what's the point of that.. and I knew about Rondo when they won less than 20 games the year before the change

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 10:15 PM
ok but they did get traded so who cares? if michael jordan didn't come back from baseball would he be the greatest? smh what's the point of that.. and I knew about Rondo when they won less than 20 games the year before the change

Exactly. I already said it 10 times. You could tell he was special the year before KG and Ray Allen even got there and the Celtics didn't have a backup PG last year so Rondo played with the second unit all the time and he still dished out mad assists and still took the ball to the basket and scored exactly the same way he did when the Big 3 were in. The Big 3 didn't make Rajon Rondo into the player he is. That statement is false and so far off it's not even funny.

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 10:18 PM
Rondo with 21 points in 22 minutes on 8 shots and shot 80% from the line hows that for efficiency:)

John Walls Era
10-15-2010, 11:16 PM
I've spoken to a lot of people in these forums that don't have a clue but you take the cake man. Your basketball IQ is as low as anyone I've ever seen. Rondo can get to the basket and score at will. That has nothing to do with the Big 3. That's his speed, athleticism, and his ability to finish in traffic. All through the playoffs last year every commentator said that this is Rondo's team. Rondo is the leader of this team now. Without Rondo this team would have never beat the Cavs in the 2nd round and I didn't even need to hear everyone say that because I saw it with my own two eyes. You could tell he was a special player his rookie year before KG and Ray were even there. Everybody knows that Rondo being as good as he is has nothing to do with the players around him except for you. His hard work and determination are what makes him great. When the Celtics take Pierce, Allen, and KG out and let Rondo play with the 2nd unit he completely takes over the game and they had to do that a lot last year because the only other back up PG Nate Robinson was in Doc's doghouse. Rondo is a special talent no matter who is on the floor with him.

Even though I want to agree with you that Rondo and Deron is better; at least Hawkeye is providing some stats. You guys need to bring up numbers.

Hustlenomics
10-15-2010, 11:37 PM
^ you want stats for each time he beats his defender off the dribble ? each time he picked the pocket of the defender he was guarding? how he moves his feet on defense? how he hustles after every loose ball? how fast he is? how he's the leader of the team?

Mc Lovin
10-15-2010, 11:40 PM
Even though I want to agree with you that Rondo and Deron is better; at least Hawkeye is providing some stats. You guys need to bring up numbers.

Here's some numbers. Rondo averaged more rebounds per game last year. He averaged more steals per game last year. He averaged 1 less assist than Paul per game and he did that in less minutes per game. Rajon Rondo's FG% was .508 and Chris Paul's FG% was 493 and in games where Rondo and Paul play each other Rondo dominated him both times. I love Chris Paul. He's my second favorite PG in basketball but I think Rondo does more for his team and would rather have him as my starting PG. It's my personal opinion and I don't understand why this guy gets so mad.

heatbb
10-16-2010, 02:43 AM
Here's some numbers. Rondo averaged more rebounds per game last year. He averaged more steals per game last year. He averaged 1 less assist than Paul per game and he did that in less minutes per game. Rajon Rondo's FG% was .508 and Chris Paul's FG% was 493 and in games where Rondo and Paul play each other Rondo dominated him both times. I love Chris Paul. He's my second favorite PG in basketball but I think Rondo does more for his team and would rather have him as my starting PG. It's my personal opinion and I don't understand why this guy gets so mad.

Only that Rondo had like 3 other players who to pass the ball. CP3 had like...well David West, an allstar couple of years ago but not anywhere near any more. CP3 had to do everything for his team.

TehSamurai
10-16-2010, 07:21 AM
Rondo averaged more rebounds per game last year.

He averaged one more rebound. Big whoop.


He averaged more steals per game last year.

Yeah, he averaged more steals once in three years, and that's supposed to be big deal?


He averaged 1 less assist than Paul per game and he did that in less minutes per game.

And? He averaged more turnovers, too, in fewer minutes.


Rajon Rondo's FG% was .508 and Chris Paul's FG% was 493

And? It's not like Rondo was the first option on offense, and he can't shoot. At all.


and in games where Rondo and Paul play each other Rondo dominated him both times.

1.) Head-to-head is a piss poor indication of who's the better player. 2 games out of 82 don't prove anything.
2.) Rondo doesn't dominate Paul.
3.) Paul only played the Celtics once last year. He scored 20 more points than Rondo.
4.) Darren Collison dominated Rondo in New Orleans. Going by your logic, Darren > Rondo.


I think Rondo does more for his team

Wrong. Period. He isn't a better shooter (although he managed to have a higher fg% the one year Paul was injured). He isn't a better passer. He isn't a better scorer. He doesn't lead his team and he never has. He is a better defender and rebounder--skills that are not that important for point guards.

Since you want to talk about stats, why don't you bring up PER and Win Shares? I know--Paul blows Rondo away in those, so they wouldn't help your flimsy argument.


It's my personal opinion and I don't understand why this guy gets so mad.

You are looking at the situation like a homer. Rondo had 3 hall of famer on his team. He isn't the first option. He isn't the leader. He doesn't play better than Paul.

You're just a homer.

Hustlenomics
10-16-2010, 03:44 PM
Rondo hasn't lead his team ever? try watching the games and then come back and say Rondo isn't the leader on the team ..and really he's only good cause of the big three? ok so according to your logic mario chalmers will be outstanding this year since he's going to play with three good players

WadeKobe
10-17-2010, 01:45 AM
based on a lot of things. Who makes the players around them better. West was an 8/6 role player until Paul showed up. Peja's career flipped around. Chandler discovered offense. These are not mysteries as to why.
Same for Deron.


Who did Rondo make better? His career spike came when he GOT help. Nash makes those around him much better, but his defense puts him out of the conversation for top 2. Offensively, he is unreal.

While I generally agree with you on this entire thread, I have to say you're selling Rondo a little short here.

First of all, I think that at this stage in their careers, coupled with Rondo's ability to perform at a high level on the biggest stage as well as his defensive superiority to both, Rondo is in a league of his own above Nash and Billups. He's at #3 all by himself.

However, beyond that I also think you're selling Rondo a little short on the "he spiked when he GOT help" thing. I mean, I agree, but that doesn't mean much seeing as how his only season before that was his rookie year.

Rondo is the star on that team and has shown the ability and will to lead that team to victory. That's huge. I mean, obviously I'm with you that he's not as good as CP3 or DWill... but you can't use the "wasn't good till he got help" card when he only played one season before that.

Let's be fair here. :)

WadeKobe
10-17-2010, 01:55 AM
I've spoken to a lot of people in these forums that don't have a clue but you take the cake man. Your basketball IQ is as low as anyone I've ever seen. Rondo can get to the basket and score at will. That has nothing to do with the Big 3. That's his speed, athleticism, and his ability to finish in traffic. All through the playoffs last year every commentator said that this is Rondo's team. Rondo is the leader of this team now. Without Rondo this team would have never beat the Cavs in the 2nd round and I didn't even need to hear everyone say that because I saw it with my own two eyes. You could tell he was a special player his rookie year before KG and Ray were even there. Everybody knows that Rondo being as good as he is has nothing to do with the players around him except for you. His hard work and determination are what makes him great. When the Celtics take Pierce, Allen, and KG out and let Rondo play with the 2nd unit he completely takes over the game and they had to do that a lot last year because the only other back up PG Nate Robinson was in Doc's doghouse. Rondo is a special talent no matter who is on the floor with him.

Dude.... I stopped reading after your first sentence. First of all, maybe be a little more respectful? Secondly, Hawkeye's Basketball IQ may be higher than anyone else's on PSD so.... maybe shut your mouth and stop to think before opening it?

TehSamurai
10-17-2010, 07:38 AM
Rondo hasn't lead his team ever?

I have watched Celtics games, which is why I am say that he doesn't lead his team. If Paul or Williams played the way he does, they'd be crucified. Rondo gets the luxury of having bad games, because his hall of fame teammates pick up his slack.


..and really he's only good cause of the big three?

No, he's overrated because of the big three.


ok so according to your logic mario chalmers will be outstanding this year since he's going to play with three good players

Nope, but he could potentially be overrated because of them. Nobody would care about Rondo if he didn't play for Boston.

hugepatsfan
10-17-2010, 10:54 AM
I have watched Celtics games, which is why I am say that he doesn't lead his team. If Paul or Williams played the way he does, they'd be crucified. Rondo gets the luxury of having bad games, because his hall of fame teammates pick up his slack.


No, he's overrated because of the big three.



Nope, but he could potentially be overrated because of them. Nobody would care about Rondo if he didn't play for Boston.

Rondo leads the team. He is the best player. He was the one that called out the older guys last year. Does he have bad games? Sure. But he is a great PG. He doesn't make the amount of mistakes that you think he does.

He's not overrated because of the big 3, he underated. Because of people like you. He can get to the hoop against most defenses. The Big 3 are not even that good anymore. They're all role players now, and Rondo is the star. I think to be the star of a team that went to the Finals last year, you have to be pretty good.

Chalmers will never be like Rondo. He doesn't have the tools to run an offense like Rondo. He is more of a Fisher type PG - open 3s and pesky defense, but never an elite "run the show" PG.

With all that being said Rondo is clearly inferior to Deron and CP3. But you're trying to prove that by (incorrectly) beating down Rondo. Instead, you should try to point out how good Deron and CP3 are. Becuase they're greatness accounts for the difference, not any of your (wrong) negative opinions of Rondo.

WadeKobe
10-17-2010, 11:09 AM
Rondo leads the team. He is the best player. He was the one that called out the older guys last year. Does he have bad games? Sure. But he is a great PG. He doesn't make the amount of mistakes that you think he does.

He's not overrated because of the big 3, he underated. Because of people like you. He can get to the hoop against most defenses. The Big 3 are not even that good anymore. They're all role players now, and Rondo is the star. I think to be the star of a team that went to the Finals last year, you have to be pretty good.

Chalmers will never be like Rondo. He doesn't have the tools to run an offense like Rondo. He is more of a Fisher type PG - open 3s and pesky defense, but never an elite "run the show" PG.

With all that being said Rondo is clearly inferior to Deron and CP3. But you're trying to prove that by (incorrectly) beating down Rondo. Instead, you should try to point out how good Deron and CP3 are. Becuase they're greatness accounts for the difference, not any of your (wrong) negative opinions of Rondo.

:clap:

Hustlenomics
10-17-2010, 12:26 PM
rondo leads the team. He is the best player. He was the one that called out the older guys last year. Does he have bad games? Sure. But he is a great pg. He doesn't make the amount of mistakes that you think he does.

He's not overrated because of the big 3, he underated. Because of people like you. He can get to the hoop against most defenses. The big 3 are not even that good anymore. They're all role players now, and rondo is the star. I think to be the star of a team that went to the finals last year, you have to be pretty good.

Chalmers will never be like rondo. He doesn't have the tools to run an offense like rondo. He is more of a fisher type pg - open 3s and pesky defense, but never an elite "run the show" pg.

With all that being said rondo is clearly inferior to deron and cp3. But you're trying to prove that by (incorrectly) beating down rondo. Instead, you should try to point out how good deron and cp3 are. Becuase they're greatness accounts for the difference, not any of your (wrong) negative opinions of rondo.
+ 1

TehSamurai
10-17-2010, 05:16 PM
Does he have bad games? Sure. But he is a great PG. He doesn't make the amount of mistakes that you think he does.

Oh, he absolutely does make that many mistakes. The thing is, nobody ever calls him out for it. The media were praising him in the playoffs when he had good games, but they didn't even acknowledge his bad games. If the Celtics lost, KG, Pierce or Allen took the flack.


He's not overrated because of the big 3, he underated.

Ludicrous.


Because of people like you.

Oh, please. The fact that 20 people voted for Rondo as the point guard that they want to have, shows how overrated he is.


He can get to the hoop against most defenses.

And he chucks bricks if left open when he can't.


The Big 3 are not even that good anymore. They're all role players now, and Rondo is the star. I think to be the star of a team that went to the Finals last year, you have to be pretty good.

Really? I wouldn't call any player who is so bad at shooting that he would miss wide open shots a star. I wouldn't call a point guard who shot less than 30% from the free throw line a star. Rondo can never put his team on his back for an entire season. He doesn't have the offensive arsenal necessary to do that.


Chalmers will never be like Rondo. He doesn't have the tools to run an offense like Rondo. He is more of a Fisher type PG - open 3s and pesky defense, but never an elite "run the show" PG.

Okay, but he is still going to be talked about more now that he plays on a championship contender. The same goes to players like Vujacic and Luke Walton.


With all that being said Rondo is clearly inferior to Deron and CP3. But you're trying to prove that by (incorrectly) beating down Rondo. Instead, you should try to point out how good Deron and CP3 are. Becuase they're greatness accounts for the difference, not any of your (wrong) negative opinions of Rondo.

I am comparing the players. When making a comparison between two or more things, one usually points out the strengths and weaknesses of said things.

Hustlenomics
10-17-2010, 05:39 PM
Oh, he absolutely does make that many mistakes. The thing is, nobody ever calls him out for it. The media were praising him in the playoffs when he had good games, but they didn't even acknowledge his bad games. If the Celtics lost, KG, Pierce or Allen took the flack.

he doesn't turn the ball over alot he plays at least 37 mpg and he goes games without turning it over this year in the playoffs he had a 19 assist game and 1 turnover and a 18 rebound game and the media definitely recognizes him not being able to shoot during the playoffs but he does everything else right and Dwyane Wade averages more turnovers than Rondo and the media doesn't point that out but they always put him in top 10 plays




Oh, please. The fact that 20 people voted for Rondo as the point guard that they want to have, shows how overrated he is.
so 20 people out of 205 people voting for him in this poll makes him overrated? lmao



And he chucks bricks if left open when he can't.
Really? I wouldn't call any player who is so bad at shooting that he would miss wide open shots a star. I wouldn't call a point guard who shot less than 30% from the free throw line a star. Rondo can never put his team on his back for an entire season. He doesn't have the offensive arsenal necessary to do that.

Guess Shaq wasn't a star because he couldn't shoot or hit free throws I would call a point guard that led his team to a championship and to the finals again and having triple doubles in the playoffs a star ..Rondo was the only starter healthy the whole year so yes he did carry them this season which is why he averaged a double double for the season and led them to 50 wins but of course someone that doesn't watch the Celtics as much is going to try and say Rondo doesn't lead the team at all ..he just stands there and makes no impact apparently



Okay, but he is still going to be talked about more now that he plays on a championship contender. The same goes to players like Vujacic and Luke Walton.
ok since Mario is playing with a big three he should be talked about and play just as good as Rondo now, gotcha




I am comparing the players. When making a comparison between two or more things, one usually points out the strengths and weaknesses of said things.
lol you give Rondo zero credit

CHANGO
10-17-2010, 07:51 PM
CP3 or Deron Williams!

aussie
10-18-2010, 10:47 AM
CP3 without a doubt!