PDA

View Full Version : cano or pedroia



yankeefan54
10-11-2010, 07:44 PM
who is better

North Country
10-11-2010, 11:28 PM
Pedroia. Cano had a great year this year and his 6.4 WAR is spectacular. But before Pedroia got hurt he was on pace for a 6.6 WAR. Pedroia's a year younger and he's played in 115 less games than Cano over the last four years but his WAR over that time is still 18.7 compared to Cano's 15.7.

Pedroia sees more pitches, gets on base more, is a better baserunner, steals more bases and plays better defense. He's a more complete player.

yankeefan54
10-12-2010, 07:19 PM
:confused::rolleyes:
Pedroia. Cano had a great year this year and his 6.4 WAR is spectacular. But before Pedroia got hurt he was on pace for a 6.6 WAR. Pedroia's a year younger and he's played in 115 less games than Cano over the last four years but his WAR over that time is still 18.7 compared to Cano's 15.7.

Pedroia sees more pitches, gets on base more, is a better baserunner, steals more bases and plays better defense. He's a more complete player.

North Country
10-12-2010, 08:44 PM
:confused::rolleyes:

I made a logical, well thought out response. If you disagree, post something to back it up.

ShinobiNYC
10-12-2010, 08:57 PM
I disagree on defense, Cano has the edge on power too...They are different hitters if u ask me(eventhough they play the same position)...Depends on ur need tbh.

Gotta see if Cano keeps it up, if he does than no other 2nd baseman is better than him IMO(not even Utley IMO)

North Country
10-12-2010, 10:33 PM
I disagree on defense, Cano has the edge on power too...They are different hitters if u ask me(eventhough they play the same position)...Depends on ur need tbh.

Gotta see if Cano keeps it up, if he does than no other 2nd baseman is better than him IMO(not even Utley IMO)

Cano was better defensively this year, but he's still not as good as Pedroia. The best defensive year he's had was a -0.6 UZR. Pedroia is consistently an 8+ UZR guy.

Cano definitely has more power. Unfortunately for him, hitting for more power is pretty much the only thing he does better than Pedroia. Like I said, Pedroia plays better defense, gets on base more, hits better in the clutch, steals a lot more bases, sees more pitches per at bat, is more consistent year in and year out, etc.

Driven
10-13-2010, 12:17 AM
How can you possibly use stats like WAR and UZR in an argument along with things like "clutch?"

BTW, it's kind of hard to say that Pedroia is "consistently an 8+ UZR guy," when he's had an UZR over 8 just twice in his career.

Cano's best UZR in his career was a 7.5, as well.

North Country
10-13-2010, 01:00 AM
BTW, it's kind of hard to say that Pedroia is "consistently an 8+ UZR guy," when he's had an UZR over 8 just twice in his career.

That's only becuase UZR is an accumulative stat and he missed much of the season this year. He was on pace for a UZR well over 9. He's had a UZR/150 of 9 or better 3 years in a row now.

There's no debating who the better defensive player is according to range stats. Cano's in the negatives and Pedroia has some of the best range stats in baseball for a 2B.

North Country
10-13-2010, 01:03 AM
How can you possibly use stats like WAR and UZR in an argument along with things like "clutch?"

It's amazing to me that people believe clutch hitting doesn't exist simply because some stathead hasn't quantified it accurately yet. Just because something isn't a stat yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Did on base percentage not exist before someone made it into a stat? Of course it did.

Driven
10-13-2010, 01:10 AM
It's amazing to me that people believe clutch hitting doesn't exist simply because some stathead hasn't quantified it accurately yet. Just because something isn't a stat yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Did on base percentage not exist before someone made it into a stat? Of course it did.

First of all, if something doesn't exist as a stat yet, then how are you arguing it with statistics in the other thread? How are you going to argue with something of substance in general?

Secondly, it's not that "some stathead hasn't quantified it accurately yet," it's that there is nothing to determine what "clutch" is. ABs in the first inning can be more important than those in later innings.

North Country
10-13-2010, 01:13 AM
First of all, if something doesn't exist as a stat yet, then how are you arguing it with statistics in the other thread? How are you going to argue with something of substance in general?

Secondly, it's not that "some stathead hasn't quantified it accurately yet," it's that there is nothing to determine what "clutch" is. ABs in the first inning can be more important than those in later innings.

I looked at how they hit in high leverage situations such as a runner in scoring position. Pedroia's stats were better. I agree that an AB in the first inning can be just as important as an AB in the latter innings. I also think we can all agree that an AB with a runner in scoring position is more valuable than at AB with the bases empty.

todu82
10-13-2010, 10:27 AM
Cano

Pinstripe pride
10-13-2010, 11:49 AM
robbie cano

C1Bman88
10-13-2010, 02:02 PM
It's amazing to me that people believe clutch hitting doesn't exist simply because some stathead hasn't quantified it accurately yet.

Saberists know that clutch hitting exists...the problem is that it's almost entirely random. Players have good clutch years and then bad clutch years- the year to year consistency is horrendous.

North Country
10-13-2010, 05:55 PM
Saberists know that clutch hitting exists...the problem is that it's almost entirely random. Players have good clutch years and then bad clutch years- the year to year consistency is horrendous.

That's becuase the sample sizes year to year are way too small. For example, in 2009 Pedroia had 150 at bats with a runner in scoring position. If you use career numbers, you get a more reliable sample size.

bosox3431
10-13-2010, 06:13 PM
This year- Cano
Career- Pedroia

Rylinkus
10-13-2010, 06:56 PM
No mention of Pedroia's Home/Road splits?

.886 vs .774 is a pretty big gap.

North Country
10-13-2010, 07:18 PM
No mention of Pedroia's Home/Road splits?

.886 vs .774 is a pretty big gap.

Cano has strange home/away splits but it's hard to argue that he doesn't benefit from hitting in Yankee Stadium, especially as a lefty. It was the most hitter friendly park in the American League last year.

papipapsmanny
10-14-2010, 12:31 AM
Pedroia for now. Cano does it again next season then cano

But Pedroia will always be the more consistent player from year to year imo

Rylinkus
10-14-2010, 08:57 AM
Cano has strange home/away splits but it's hard to argue that he doesn't benefit from hitting in Yankee Stadium, especially as a lefty. It was the most hitter friendly park in the American League last year.

He's a better hitter on the road.
.828 Home OPS
.843 Road OPS

EAGLES3658
10-14-2010, 11:04 PM
Cano has strange home/away splits but it's hard to argue that he doesn't benefit from hitting in Yankee Stadium, especially as a lefty. It was the most hitter friendly park in the American League last year.

16 HR's at YS
13 on the road

He also hits under .300 at home and over .340 on the road. So, I dont think this is an issue.

Greet
10-15-2010, 08:30 AM
A healthy Pedroia....no chance Cano is better.

GeronimoSon
10-15-2010, 09:03 AM
From the time Pedroia was given his undeserved MVP award (he should have finished no higher than fourth).. the question of his value has persisted. Bottom line, Pedroia is a good player.. not a great player. Cano is a good player who is getting better and better..

Slam dunk, Robinson Cano is the best 2B in baseball. Period..

C1Bman88
10-15-2010, 11:31 AM
Slam dunk, Robinson Cano is the best 2B in baseball. Period..

Better than Utley?...

ShinobiNYC
10-15-2010, 01:00 PM
Better than Utley?...

Right now and going forward probably yes.

North Country
10-15-2010, 01:21 PM
He's a better hitter on the road.
.828 Home OPS
.843 Road OPS

And who's to say his home OPS wouldn't be .720 if he didn't hit in the most friendly hitters ballpark in the American League? It's a pretty hard sell to claim that a lefthanded hitter doesn't benefit from hitting in the new Yankee Stadium.

Rylinkus
10-15-2010, 01:23 PM
And who's to say his home OPS wouldn't be .720 if he didn't hit in the most friendly hitters ballpark in the American League? It's a pretty hard sell to claim that a lefthanded hitter doesn't benefit from hitting in the new Yankee Stadium.

His road stats, which are identical to his home stats :eyebrow:

North Country
10-15-2010, 01:32 PM
Right now and going forward probably yes.

:laugh:

And Teixeira is better than Pujols, right?

North Country
10-15-2010, 01:39 PM
His road stats, which are identical to his home stats :eyebrow:

You do realize that 2/3rds of his road stats come from at bats in the old Yankee Stadium, right? And that now he hits in the most friendly left handed hitting ballpark in baseball.

Rylinkus
10-15-2010, 01:50 PM
You do realize that 2/3rds of his road stats come from at bats in the old Yankee Stadium, right? And that now he hits in the most friendly left handed hitting ballpark in baseball.

I did not realize that, mainly because it is not true. Old Yankee stadium would count as his Home stadium, as that WAS his home stadium before it got torn down.

North Country
10-15-2010, 01:59 PM
I did not realize that, mainly because it is not true. Old Yankee stadium would count as his Home stadium, as that WAS his home stadium before it got torn down.

I made a typo, I meant to say that 2/3rds of his home numbers come from the old Yankee Stadium. It's rather disingenuous to claim the doesn't benefit from hitting in the new Yankee Stadium because his career numbers at home are very close to his career numbers on the road. He played in a different home stadium for four of the six years that he's been in the majors. He hits a lot better in the new Yankee Stadium that he did in the old one.

Cano @ the old Yankee Stadium - .296/.325/.462, 31 home runs in 1066 at bats
Cano @ the new Yankee Stadium - .318/.365/.531, 30 home runs in 623 at bats

Rylinkus
10-15-2010, 02:03 PM
If he benefits from Yankee stadium, why don't his stats show it? Why isn't he better at home than on the road?

As far as New Yankee Stadium #s versus old.... He has gotten better...

North Country
10-15-2010, 02:06 PM
If he benefits from Yankee stadium, why don't his stats show it? Why isn't he better at home than on the road?

As far as New Yankee Stadium #s versus old.... He has gotten better...

He's always been a guy that's more comfortable hitting on the road in his career. That doesn't mean that he doesn't benefit from hitting in a more friendly hitters park when he's at home. As the numbers clearly show, he hits much better in the new Yankee Stadium, than he did in the old one. And it's disproportionate to his career trends. When he went from the old YS to the new YS, his home run production at home tripled while his overall home run production did not.

EDIT: It's also worth noting that his home numbers were much better than his away numbers last year and while that wasn't ture this year, his BABIP was 0.58 points higher on the road than it was at home.

C1Bman88
10-15-2010, 02:31 PM
Right now and going forward probably yes.

Going forward, perhaps, but to say Cano is the better player right now is a stretch. This is the first season in which Cano's had a better offensive campaign than Utley, and if I remember right, Utley was dealing with some injuries.

North Country
10-15-2010, 03:08 PM
Going forward, perhaps, but to say Cano is the better player right now is a stretch. This is the first season in which Cano's had a better offensive campaign than Utley, and if I remember right, Utley was dealing with some injuries.

Exactly.

Saint Brian
10-19-2010, 11:29 AM
Two very different players.

Last year I would have said DP but today, I'd take Cano.

NJBASEBALL22
10-19-2010, 11:41 AM
Cano is the second best second baseman in baseball behind Utley.

NJBASEBALL22
10-19-2010, 12:01 PM
I made a typo, I meant to say that 2/3rds of his home numbers come from the old Yankee Stadium. It's rather disingenuous to claim the doesn't benefit from hitting in the new Yankee Stadium because his career numbers at home are very close to his career numbers on the road. He played in a different home stadium for four of the six years that he's been in the majors. He hits a lot better in the new Yankee Stadium that he did in the old one.

Cano @ the old Yankee Stadium - .296/.325/.462, 31 home runs in 1066 at bats
Cano @ the new Yankee Stadium - .318/.365/.531, 30 home runs in 623 at bats

His average home run at YS this season traveled 395.5 feet.
http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2010_2522&type=hitter

Do the math yourself if you don't believe me. But those are home runs anywhere. His shortest was 340, still a home run almost anywhere.

NJBASEBALL22
10-19-2010, 12:09 PM
I mean, Cano is just getting better and becoming a better hitter. Does YS benefit him? Yeah it probably does. To the level that North Country is say? I don't really think so. Is there a reason he hits .318 at New Yankee Stadium as opposed to .322 on the road? Maybe. There are always going to be anomalies every season in player's splits. But these numbers aren't that different to spot a glaring advantage.

Driven
10-19-2010, 06:15 PM
You do realize that hitter favorable ballparks are more than just a small field, right?

I am not arguing this Cano in the new Yankee Stadium vs. the Old Yankee Stadium, because I find it irrelevant, but that whole distance of HR thing is irrelevant as well.

NJBASEBALL22
10-19-2010, 11:01 PM
You do realize that hitter favorable ballparks are more than just a small field, right?

I am not arguing this Cano in the new Yankee Stadium vs. the Old Yankee Stadium, because I find it irrelevant, but that whole distance of HR thing is irrelevant as well.

He said he hits more home runs at New Yankee Stadium because of the stadium. What more is there? The wind? That website- hittracker.com, adjusts for wind factor. So really what is it.

In my mind, every thing is relevent. What is a pitchers park exactly? San Diego right? Well it is more spacious and harder to hit home runs. I've heard it describe as "death to left handed hitters". Well if the park is deeper, then there is more field for the ball to fall, thus making it easier to get hits. The only parks that don't fit this are Colorado and CBP because of the condition.

Boozerguy47
10-23-2010, 07:42 PM
Pedroia is one of the most overrated players if you ask me.

papipapsmanny
10-23-2010, 08:29 PM
Pedroia is one of the most overrated players if you ask me.

Reasons why?

He is a good bet to be a 5-6 WAR player each season.

If pace means anything we was on pace to have a WAR better than Cano's this season. He played 75 Games and had a 3.3 WAR, and he was having another very good defensive year.

Very consistent player, he has a career .366 wOBA, plays good defense, can steal 20 bases and turned 27 about 2 months ago.

North Country
10-23-2010, 09:47 PM
Pedroia is one of the most overrated players if you ask me.

The fact that so many people think Cano is better would suggest that perhaps Pedraoi is underrated. Between the two, Pedroia has had the better WAR in 2008, 2009 and this year before he got hurt.

Old Sweater
10-30-2010, 05:01 PM
Pure talent, Cano in a heart beat, one of the sweetest swings you'll ever see.

Pedroia is a dirt bag who can really lead a team though and that really means something to me.

NJBASEBALL22
10-30-2010, 07:02 PM
Pure talent, Cano in a heart beat, one of the sweetest swings you'll ever see.

Pedroia is a dirt bag who can really lead a team though and that really means something to me.

I don't know if I would call him a dirtbag. I don't know much about is private life but as a ballplayer, I respect his skill. He is a confident and gritty player, the type of guy you love if he plays on your team. Sometimes it seems like Pedroia's confidence borders on cockiness and I am sure it does, but whatever, you have to be confident and that is a fine line to walk.

Now Papelbon, he seems like a dick. He is arrogant, not just cocky.

bagwell368
10-30-2010, 09:47 PM
I don't know if I would call him a dirtbag. I don't know much about is private life but as a ballplayer, I respect his skill. He is a confident and gritty player, the type of guy you love if he plays on your team. Sometimes it seems like Pedroia's confidence borders on cockiness and I am sure it does, but whatever, you have to be confident and that is a fine line to walk.

Now Papelbon, he seems like a dick. He is arrogant, not just cocky.

I think he meant dirt dog...

I don't like Paps at all. He was something to watch in '06-'08, but this whole "elite" closer thing is a crock, he's at best in the 2nd quartile, and dropping. Just hope he bounces back enough this year so he's Type A.

North Country
10-30-2010, 10:01 PM
Now Papelbon, he seems like a dick. He is arrogant, not just cocky.

I couldn't agree more. He's like the A-Rod of the Red Sox.

NJBASEBALL22
10-30-2010, 11:03 PM
I think he meant dirt dog...

I don't like Paps at all. He was something to watch in '06-'08, but this whole "elite" closer thing is a crock, he's at best in the 2nd quartile, and dropping. Just hope he bounces back enough this year so he's Type A.

Yeah I think you are right now that I went back and looked at it again. I have nothing against Pedroia and he is a leader. I remember hearing or reading something about him when he was at ASU. I think Pelfrey (on Witchita St.) struck him out and Pedroia came back into the dugout and said that Pelfrey's stuff was filthy and he couldn't hit him. His coach took him to the side and said something along the lines of "Your the best hitter on this team and you are admitting that you can't touch this guy? What do you think the other guys are thinking when you say that? You need to come back in here and tell them he got nothing and he got lucky. **** like that." And that is where Pedroia's confidence comes from, being a leader.
I respect him for that. He does step up as a team leader and with inspirational play (because of his size and heart).

C1Bman88
10-30-2010, 11:30 PM
He does step up as a team leader and with inspirational play (because of his size and heart).

I think you've got Pedroia confused with David Eckstein.

NJBASEBALL22
10-31-2010, 12:26 AM
I think you've got Pedroia confused with David Eckstein.

Eck can't hold Pedroia's jock. You obviously haven't played a sport if you don't understand a "leader" can help motivate his team. Pedroia is 5'8 maybe 5'9 and smokes the ball.

Driven
10-31-2010, 12:48 AM
Eck can't hold Pedroia's jock. You obviously haven't played a sport if you don't understand a "leader" can help motivate his team. Pedroia is 5'8 maybe 5'9 and smokes the ball.

These are two different things. Being a "leader" and "smoking the ball" are two separate intangibles. Both can lead a team in different ways, but the way you put it, you're talking about those emotional intangibles.

Either way, this is baseball we're talking about. It's virtually an individual sport. Leadership can only go so far.

NJBASEBALL22
10-31-2010, 01:08 AM
These are two different things. Being a "leader" and "smoking the ball" are two separate intangibles. Both can lead a team in different ways, but the way you put it, you're talking about those emotional intangibles.

Either way, this is baseball we're talking about. It's virtually an individual sport. Leadership can only go so far.

What I am talking about is confidence being contagious. You walk with a swagger and soon your team does too. He gets his teammates energized with clutch hitting and his abilities despite his stature, not to mention he gives it all to win.

bagwell368
10-31-2010, 08:04 AM
What I am talking about is confidence being contagious. You walk with a swagger and soon your team does too. He gets his teammates energized with clutch hitting and his abilities despite his stature, not to mention he gives it all to win.

Basically yes. Swagger is probably more for an Ortiz or Pujols. I think that Pedroia concentrates his talent and energy to get the best result, and his never giving in attitude does effect those around him. Just like a guy that gets angry in a slump, or shoulders slump after getting K'd also effects those around him.

I don't think there is much doubt that at his peak, Cano has more talent then Pedroia. There are others. But year in and year out Pedroia is going to be in the top 5 WAR 2B in the Majors.

162 gm ave: .305/.369/.460 2B: 49 HR: 16 BB: 63 R: 110 SB: 16 UZR150: 9.6

4.68 WAR per FG last 4 years (and he missed 75 games in '10 to boot)

7-8 more years at the rate he is going at now, with another ring or two, and he's a HOF'er. I wouldn't bet against it. Meanwhile some other "great" ones will come and go.

NJBASEBALL22
10-31-2010, 04:58 PM
Basically yes. Swagger is probably more for an Ortiz or Pujols. I think that Pedroia concentrates his talent and energy to get the best result, and his never giving in attitude does effect those around him. Just like a guy that gets angry in a slump, or shoulders slump after getting K'd also effects those around him.

I don't think there is much doubt that at his peak, Cano has more talent then Pedroia. There are others. But year in and year out Pedroia is going to be in the top 5 WAR 2B in the Majors.

162 gm ave: .305/.369/.460 2B: 49 HR: 16 BB: 63 R: 110 SB: 16 UZR150: 9.6

4.68 WAR per FG last 4 years (and he missed 75 games in '10 to boot)

7-8 more years at the rate he is going at now, with another ring or two, and he's a HOF'er. I wouldn't bet against it. Meanwhile some other "great" ones will come and go.

I can agree with you on that. I mean, he is one of the top 3 2nd basemen in the league and at his (and Cano's) age, combined with the inevitable decline of Chase Utley (maybe not yet, but most likely with in the next 3 years) Pedroia will be one of the top second baseman every year. He will be regarded as the top defensive second baseman in his healthy years and in the conversation for top offensive second baseman with Cano being his main competition. I buy him making the hall of fame down the road if he remains healthy.

Old Sweater
10-31-2010, 05:35 PM
I don't know if I would call him a dirtbag. I don't know much about is private life but as a ballplayer, I respect his skill. He is a confident and gritty player, the type of guy you love if he plays on your team. Sometimes it seems like Pedroia's confidence borders on cockiness and I am sure it does, but whatever, you have to be confident and that is a fine line to walk.

Now Papelbon, he seems like a dick. He is arrogant, not just cocky.


No insult towards Pedroia at all. What you decribed is what I call a dirtbag. Always in the dirt around a bag it seems like. Picks up the level of his teammates.

quiksilver2491
10-31-2010, 10:35 PM
Not sure if this has already been posted but Fangraphs seems to prefer Pedroia. On their list of the players with the most trade value for 2010 Pedroia was at #5 while Cano was at #13. Keep in mind however this article is from mid July.



#13 Robinson Cano, 2B, New York

At 27 years of age, Cano is well on his way to having the best year of his career. Always a high contact guy, he has continued to develop power while also improving his defense, and has turned himself into one of the best second baseman in the game as a result. The Yankees own his rights through 2013, and they are only on the hook for $39 million over the next three seasons. While that is decent money, its far below what hes actually worth, and as a player headed into his prime years at an up-the-middle position, Cano provides significant value above and beyond what he costs.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2010-trade-value-15-11/



#5 Dustin Pedroia, 2B, Boston

Whether it is his size or the fact that he is overshadowed by other players on his team, Pedroia still hardly ever gets the recognition for being one of the best players in baseball. But he is one of the best in baseball at making contact while still hitting for power, and he rounds out his game by drawing walks, stealing bases at a high success rate, and playing excellent defense at second base. Over all, the package adds up to a +5 to +6 win player in his prime. Oh, and hes under contract for the next five years at a total of $44 million the last year is voided if hes traded, but still, 4/33 for what Pedroia brings to the table is a huge bargain.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2010-trade-value-5-1/

ShinobiNYC
11-01-2010, 10:03 AM
Not sure if this has already been posted but Fangraphs seems to prefer Pedroia. On their list of the players with the most trade value for 2010 Pedroia was at #5 while Cano was at #13. Keep in mind however this article is from mid July.


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2010-trade-value-15-11/


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2010-trade-value-5-1/

It has to do more with how their contract is constructed though. Pedroia is owed $44.5M the next 5 years(1 club option worth $11M in 2015)..Cano is owed $39M the next 3 years(2 club options worth $14M and $15M for 2012 and 2013).

Pedroia will be a bargain until 2015...Cano is either a FA after 2011(doubt it) OR worth $14M+ / year after 2011.

I think if money is involved I'd take Pedroia over Cano.

NJBASEBALL22
11-01-2010, 03:14 PM
It has to do more with how their contract is constructed though. Pedroia is owed $44.5M the next 5 years(1 club option worth $11M in 2015)..Cano is owed $39M the next 3 years(2 club options worth $14M and $15M for 2012 and 2013).

Pedroia will be a bargain until 2015...Cano is either a FA after 2011(doubt it) OR worth $14M+ / year after 2011.

I think if money is involved I'd take Pedroia over Cano.

True.

NJBASEBALL22
11-01-2010, 03:15 PM
No insult towards Pedroia at all. What you decribed is what I call a dirtbag. Always in the dirt around a bag it seems like. Picks up the level of his teammates.

No. I got you buddy. I re-read it and figured out what you meant. You mean dirtbag as in Long Beach St. Dirtbag.

C1Bman88
11-01-2010, 04:49 PM
Eck can't hold Pedroia's jock. You obviously haven't played a sport if you don't understand a "leader" can help motivate his team. Pedroia is 5'8 maybe 5'9 and smokes the ball.

I was pointing out the absurdity of such a statement. What does his size have to do with ANYTHING? "Heart" and "grittiness" are one thing, but to give a guy bonus points for his size- really?

I played ball for about 10 years. Not once did a person's character ever make me perform differently. It makes for a great feel-good story, but not once did it ever make me a better player. If you need someone to motivate you, you shouldn't be playing ball in the first place. You should be there and playing to the best of your abilities because you want to.

NJBASEBALL22
11-01-2010, 09:48 PM
I was pointing out the absurdity of such a statement. What does his size have to do with ANYTHING? "Heart" and "grittiness" are one thing, but to give a guy bonus points for his size- really?

I played ball for about 10 years. Not once did a person's character ever make me perform differently. It makes for a great feel-good story, but not once did it ever make me a better player. If you need someone to motivate you, you shouldn't be playing ball in the first place. You should be there and playing to the best of your abilities because you want to.

oh wow. you played ball for 10 years. congrats bro, that makes you an expert then. Sorry I didn't know I was talking to Peter Gammons here. I played ball for 15 years, 3 seasons of the year since 7th grade til senor year in college. I know a thing or two about baseball as well. And yes, getting a clutch hit or stealing a needed base can ignite a team... and there is a thing called momentum and that is a real thing too.

When I was talking about Pedroia being small in stature, I was talking about Pedroia someone, I'm trying to think of the wording, someone who is overachieving while being at such a disadvantage. He plays with such a confidence that it gives others an edge too, where they say, "Hey, this little guy just ripped on off the wall, this guy has got nothing." or "I need to step it up, Pedroia's 5'6 *** is carrying us right now." Hitting is contagious, just like confidence and swagger- they go along way.

Driven
11-01-2010, 11:35 PM
Hitting is contagious... maybe to an extent. But we're talking about professionals here. Baseball is virtually an individual sport. Leadership can only go so far. I don't know how there is really a difference between a Dustin Pedroia and an Alex Rodriguez in your scenario. A-Rod is the better hitter. So wouldn't he "ignite" a team more? Are we going to give a guy bonus points because he's small? Do you really think that professional MLB players go, "hey, that guy is short and he can hit! We can do it too then!"

C1Bman88
11-02-2010, 01:07 AM
Hitting is contagious... maybe to an extent. But we're talking about professionals here. Baseball is virtually an individual sport. Leadership can only go so far. I don't know how there is really a difference between a Dustin Pedroia and an Alex Rodriguez in your scenario. A-Rod is the better hitter. So wouldn't he "ignite" a team more? Are we going to give a guy bonus points because he's small? Do you really think that professional MLB players go, "hey, that guy is short and he can hit! We can do it too then!"

This.

C1Bman88
11-02-2010, 01:14 AM
oh wow. you played ball for 10 years. congrats bro, that makes you an expert then. Sorry I didn't know I was talking to Peter Gammons here. I played ball for 15 years, 3 seasons of the year since 7th grade til senor year in college. I know a thing or two about baseball as well. And yes, getting a clutch hit or stealing a needed base can ignite a team... and there is a thing called momentum and that is a real thing too.

What is this, a dick-measuring contest? You said I "obviously haven't played a sport" to think that way; I pointed out that I've had baseball experience. Looks like my experience was different than yours.


When I was talking about Pedroia being small in stature, I was talking about Pedroia someone, I'm trying to think of the wording, someone who is overachieving while being at such a disadvantage. He plays with such a confidence that it gives others an edge too, where they say, "Hey, this little guy just ripped on off the wall, this guy has got nothing." or "I need to step it up, Pedroia's 5'6 *** is carrying us right now." Hitting is contagious, just like confidence and swagger- they go along way.

How do you know it gives Major Leaguers an edge? Seriously. If a reporter comes up to a player and asks, "hey, does Pedroia inspire you to be a better person?" What's he going to say? "No?" Self-reports are incredibly unreliable; being "inspired" doesn't actually mean a player will perform better. These are professionals out there that are looking to earn more money; it's not as if they're going out there to kill some time, nor are these guys lacking confidence. The ones that do are weeded out pretty quickly.

Madtown22
03-02-2011, 12:01 AM
I'll take Pedroia!

Crane4ever
03-02-2011, 05:41 PM
I think Pedroia is better just by a little bit but its close thou.

Saint Sandman
03-13-2011, 11:40 PM
Going forward, perhaps, but to say Cano is the better player right now is a stretch. This is the first season in which Cano's had a better offensive campaign than Utley, and if I remember right, Utley was dealing with some injuries.

I agree that Utley is the best 2B in baseball when he's healthy, but I think injuries will eventually become a trend with Utley. I think that Cano will pass Utley as the best 2B either this year or the following year.

Based on my last sentence, you can figure out that I think Cano is a better 2B than Pedroia. Pedroia has had a more significant impact on his team when you look at his career WAR, but I'm confident that Cano will outproduce Pedroia going forward. I also believe that the stats Pedroia put up in his MVP season are his ceiling numbers (if that makes any sense). We are yet to witness Cano's greatest potential. A .320/.380/.560 line isn't outside the realm of possibility for Cano.

Celtic AL
03-14-2011, 12:52 AM
there both good

NJBASEBALL22
03-14-2011, 02:05 AM
I'll take Cano.

p eter
03-14-2011, 03:24 PM
Cano AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Career 965 378 258 54 10 24 380 65 127 3 2 .267 .313 .419 .732

Pedroia
Career 518 295 148 33 0 10 190 72 50 21 1 .286 .365 .407 .772

This is their numbers when a runner is in scoring position. As you can see pedroia is much better with runners in scoring position than Cano.

papipapsmanny
03-14-2011, 05:20 PM
Still taking Pedy, history says it, even last year Pedroia was on pace to out WAR Cano

3.3 WAR in in 75 games.... its hard to project he could have stayed the same, done better, or worse in the second half, but he was on a really good pace last year

He was on pace, again doing the math projections, to end with a 6.4-7 WAR if he played around 155 games

Metsfan98
03-15-2011, 07:40 PM
Cano.