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jaysfan55
10-04-2010, 09:33 PM
I just read an article on bluejays.com that has AA saying he has full shopping ability this off-season and Rogers has set no limit on what he can spend as long as it will benefit this team... thats good news if he can actually pull the trigger on some deals... who would you like see with the Jays in 2011?

Here are my picks-

Adam Dunn- DH (he hated JP but AA is no JP) Move Lind to first
Juan Uribe- 3B (can hit for power, drives in runs, and can play better D)
Jose Bautista- Give him a raise
John Buck- 1 year deal just to make sure JPA is ready full time
Rafeal Soriano in the closer role (keep gregg as a setup guy)
Jon Garland/Carl Povano/Brandon Webb as a 5th Starter (add more veteran experience)
John Rauch in the Pen somewhere
JC Romero in the Pen somewhere

nstojic
10-04-2010, 09:58 PM
if you follow what they've said over the last year, this is nothing new...they've said all the money they could ever want is there but they just don't feel like adding some band aids onto a gaping cut....but with the way the season has gone, that cut has shrunk dramatically.... and it now might make that sense they were looking for...

Dol-Fan
10-04-2010, 10:02 PM
Unlimited? Carl Crawford please.

tuck25
10-04-2010, 10:14 PM
Unlimited? Carl Crawford please.

:clap::pray:

BlueJayCarter
10-04-2010, 10:24 PM
I just read an article on bluejays.com that has AA saying he has full shopping ability this off-season and Rogers has set no limit on what he can spend as long as it will benefit this team... thats good news if he can actually pull the trigger on some deals... who would you like see with the Jays in 2011?

Here are my picks-

Adam Dunn- DH (he hated JP but AA is no JP) Move Lind to first
Juan Uribe- 3B (can hit for power, drives in runs, and can play better D)
Jose Bautista- Give him a raise
John Buck- 1 year deal just to make sure JPA is ready full time
Rafeal Soriano in the closer role (keep gregg as a setup guy)
Jon Garland/Carl Povano/Brandon Webb as a 5th Starter (add more veteran experience)
John Rauch in the Pen somewhere
JC Romero in the Pen somewhere

It would be nice to pick up a gamer like Jason Kubel. Three straight years of 20 + homeruns would be good fit. That is if Jose Bautista moves to third if we get rid of E5.

It has been stated that the bullpen needs to get veteran help (Cito) for the young starters .... or let the young guys take up positions in the bullpen (my choice). However a good pick up for bullpen help would be Jesse Crain. Toronto born Canadian .... good stats 33-21 .... good set up man.

lovingTO
10-04-2010, 11:04 PM
Sounds nice, but there's NO CHANCE the jays go out and sign any type A free agents and forfeit valuable draft picks. It's AA's second and year this team isn't ready yet. The money may be there, but this isn't the time to spend it.

the_jon
10-05-2010, 12:09 AM
Bodes well for NEXT offseason. I was only 3 when the Jays last won the World Series but from what I understand the roughly 50 million dollar payroll of the time was almost like the Yankees of today and people wondered how they could even afford such a payroll. I doubt we'll ever have the spending power that the Yankees have, but it would be nice to rival Boston's pocket book.

afclark82
10-05-2010, 12:25 AM
I feel that if he can get an elite guy like Crawford he will jump all over it but he should not pull a JP and think the team is ready for the playoffs after one season above expectations. The Jays are in a position where they want to build the farm system and develop the team from within. Once they get there they will then add complimentary pieces through trade and free agent signing. Signing all of the guys that jaysfan55 suggested would be foolish and be exactly what JP did the year he went after Burnett and Ryan. It would be foolish and probably not work. Even New York and Boston have shown that having a foundation of players developed in your own organization works far better than signing a million free agents at top dollar and hope they all fit into the fold.

IMHO AA should do the following:
Manager
- Sign Rivera as Mananger and keep Walton, Langsford, Murphy as coaches (I have a hard time seeing Butterfield/Leyva staying if they don't get the managers job)

Outfield
- Give a crap load of money to Crawford to be your leadoff hitter and have an outfield of (Crawford, Snyder, Wells)
- If we cannot get Crawford than resign Bautista for the OF with Snyder, Wells

Bullpen
- Resign Downs and/or pick up a veteran bullpen arm or two
- Pickup the one year option of Gregg as the closer
- Fill the rest of the bullpen with young guys who show promise (incl. Rzep, Camp, Janssen, Purcey, Carlson, Roenicke, etc.)

Infield
- Trade some of these excess arms for a 1B/DH, Lind plays the other --- worse case scenario sign Overbay to a 1-2 year extension (he is a gold glove calibre 1B and if he wasn't making so much we would have been happy to have him)
- Resign Bautista for 3B, if he is in the OF I would not be adverse to giving Encarnacion a 1 year deal until we either develop a 3B (one of Hechavarria/Hill/Escobar will end up at 3B)
- Resign Buck to split time with JPA (if willing), otherwise resign Molina

Starting Rotation
- DO NOTHING... it makes no sense to spend money on a #5 pitcher when we have a crap load of guys much better than a #5 coming up through the system.
- Have a rotation of Cecil, Romero, Morrow, Marcum, and the best from spring training (from Hill, Litsch (if healthy), McGowen (if healthy), Drabek, Stewart, etc.)

nithanyo
10-05-2010, 12:34 AM
add to that there arnt too many difference making free agents in the market next to Lee and Crawford this offseason. I say we wait another year or two and hope bigger free agents hit the market. As for now AA should develop and trade for talent rather than sign

Manatoo
10-05-2010, 04:55 AM
Juan Uribe? seriously? you really want someone else on this team that has an OBP just above .300?

nstojic
10-05-2010, 07:51 AM
In the meantime Buck, a free agent, had a career year at the plate and nursed along Toronto’s young pitching staff with great skill. Molina also had a fine season as his backup. And when Arencibia got his shot at the big time, it was clear that he still has some work to do as a game-caller and receiver.

Are the Jays suddenly interested in bring Buck back?

“You have to be,” GM Alex Anthopoulos said. “He became a leader on this team. Twenty home runs, career highs in batting average. We would love to have John Buck back here.

“At the same time, he’s had a great year and earned a long-term contract. That said, What are the alternatives for the club? What’s the opportunity cost? That’s all to be debated.”

The Jays’ conundrum is that they also want to give Arencibia a chance to develop.

“At some point we have to give him a chance,” said Anthopoulos.

“It’s hard to look at J.P. and say, ‘Well, you hit 32 home runs in the minor leagues but we didn’t think it was good enough.’

“At some point, he needs to get into the big leagues and get some experience. He has done everything we asked in the minors this year.” http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2010/10/04/15582961.html

nstojic
10-05-2010, 07:54 AM
and on where AA stands with Bautista?


In the case of Bautista’s future with the Blue Jays, none did. Which means between now and the time Bautista signs for next season — whether his case ends up going to arbitration, or signing long term in Toronto — his situation will be open to debate and discussion. What to do with him? How much to offer him? What position is he best suited to play?

And then the big question.

Do you chance arbitration and a one-year contract with the explosive Bautista or do you sign him now for the long term, figuring he is this large of a star and this is the most reasonable he will ever be priced?

“You’re always going to weigh the risk and reward,” said Anthopoulos, talking about his 54-home run man. “I never come out and comment on whether I want to sign this player or not (long term). That just muddies the waters in so many ways. Everybody is going to speculate with the fact he’s a year away from free agency ... But I would never comment on the specifics of a contract negotiation. I know it’s going to be a topic. And it’s not something I’m going to avoid.”

So here is the scoop on all that’s gone on with the Bautista negotiations. Nothing has happened. Anthopoulos has yet to open any dialogue with Bautista’s agent, Bean Stringfellow. He isn’t certain when any conversations will take place. Time, he said, is on his and the Blue Jays side.

Anthopoulos likes to talk about control of a player, which in his words means how long you control his playing rights. Bautista is obligated to the Blue Jays for another season and to boot he gets to use the arbitration process to sell his value. In other words, he gets a big raise no matter what happens after his first Ruthian-type season. But those closest to Anthopoulos will tell you he loves the give and take of the arbitration process — not necessarily going to arbitration — but using the process to avoid the hearings.

With Bautista, some are betting that a contract will be signed before they get to any arbitration hearing. And the betting from the same people is: It won’t be a one-year arrangement: More likely it will be for three seasons.

And either way, there’s a gamble here.

Bautista is a one-year, one-month, wonder. Exactly who he is and what he will be next season is open to interpretation. He can drop 20 home runs — end up with 34 — and still be playing close to the level he played at this season. No one in their right mind will expect 50 home runs from him again.

But when asked what he expected from Bautista, Anthopoulos was particularly vague.

He did say he expected Adam Lind to bounce back and hit 30 home runs next year. He did say he expected Aaron Hill to hit a whole lot closer to .280 and maybe hit more than 30 home runs after a dismal year batting .205 with a bunch of homers. He didn’t give any indication of what he expects from Bautista.

“One thing the game has showed us — one player doesn’t make or break a game,” Anthopoulos said. “I’m not saying that about Jose Bautista but when Alex Rodriguez was on the Rangers, he left the team, they did very well. Randy Johnson and Jr. Griffey with the Mariners. They left the team, they did very well. You can’t be held hostage with the fact you can’t lose this player. It’s not the NBA. It’s a 25-man team.”

And if he signs Bautista to a one-year deal and the outfielder-third baseman has another 50-home run season?

“At least you know what you’re paying for,” Anthopoulos said. “You don’t mind paying a player if they’re doing it day in, day out. You’re happy when a guy is going to get a bump in salary because it means you’ve got a player who’s going to help you win.

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2010/10/04/15580196.html

nstojic
10-05-2010, 07:56 AM
on Encarnacion


When discussing players and contracts, one of the GM’s favourite questions is, “Do the values line up?”

Which is another way of saying, “Is he worth the money?”

In Edwin Encarnacion’s case, the answer may be ‘No.’ Encarnacion is arbitration-eligible this winter and might be a bit pricey for a man of his modest defensive skills, even though he keeps teasing with his powerful bat.

“He’s coming off nearly a $5 million salary,” Anthopoulos said. “In salary arbitration you rarely get cut, more often you get a raise, especially when you hit 21 home runs. He has made strides defensively, but he’s never going to be a Gold Glover.

“Being candid about it, it’s a matter of value. Going through the arbitration process and what it would cost.”

So, if not Encarnacion, then who? Aaron Hill told our Bob Elliott recently that he would move to third if asked and Anthopoulos didn’t rule that out Monday. With Hill’s permission, Anthopoulos could scout the trade or free-agent market for either a third or second baseman.

“Aaron has the ability to play all over the diamond. Jose Bautista is the same way,” Anthopoulos said. “It’s nice to have that flexibility. If we’re out there on the free agent market and there’s a third baseman out there, maybe that makes sense. If there’s a second baseman out there, maybe in a trade, we have the ability to take somebody like Aaron and put him at third.http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2010/10/04/15582936.html


that last part with Hill, that's probably why there were rumors about Kelly Johnson at the deadline...

bartron_44
10-05-2010, 08:34 AM
I beg to differ that we couldn't be ready for the playoffs with a few big additions..and after spending big money on the draft and international FA signings, do we really need 7 picks in the first 3 rounds again in order to have a good draft? We got a lot of talent after day 1 last year. I have faith AA and his scouts will have a good draft every year, no matter how many picks they have going in...

I don't really care about the picks this year. We aren't choosing #1 overall or anything, so give me Lee, Dunn, Soriano, and bring back Downs,Gregg, Buck and A.Gonzalez, and I think we are ready for anyone....

Snider- LF
Escobar- SS
Bautista- RF
Dunn- 1B
Wells- CF
Lind- DH
Hill- 3B
Gonzalez- 2B
Buck- C

rotation- Lee + Marcum,Cecil,Romero,Morrow in any order you want....with Drabek and Stewart filling in innings for injuries and in September when guys start reaching inning ceilings..

Bullpen- Soriano, Gregg, Purcey, Jannsen, Carlson, Downs, Camp


That is a team that should score a bunch of runs, play solid defense, and possibly have the best pitching staff in the AL.....Heck, even without Lee our staff would be more than capable of keeping us in the game every day. I could see us having 3, 17+ game winners next year with that bullpen and offense. Add Lee to the fold and we could have 4 :)

afclark82
10-05-2010, 09:05 AM
I beg to differ that we couldn't be ready for the playoffs with a few big additions..and after spending big money on the draft and international FA signings, do we really need 7 picks in the first 3 rounds again in order to have a good draft? We got a lot of talent after day 1 last year. I have faith AA and his scouts will have a good draft every year, no matter how many picks they have going in...

I don't really care about the picks this year. We aren't choosing #1 overall or anything, so give me Lee, Dunn, Soriano, and bring back Downs,Gregg, Buck and A.Gonzalez, and I think we are ready for anyone....

Snider- LF
Escobar- SS
Bautista- RF
Dunn- 1B
Wells- CF
Lind- DH
Hill- 3B
Gonzalez- 2B
Buck- C

rotation- Lee + Marcum,Cecil,Romero,Morrow in any order you want....with Drabek and Stewart filling in innings for injuries and in September when guys start reaching inning ceilings..

Bullpen- Soriano, Gregg, Purcey, Jannsen, Carlson, Downs, Camp


That is a team that should score a bunch of runs, play solid defense, and possibly have the best pitching staff in the AL.....Heck, even without Lee our staff would be more than capable of keeping us in the game every day. I could see us having 3, 17+ game winners next year with that bullpen and offense. Add Lee to the fold and we could have 4 :)

Sorry but I don't see that order would do much better than the current team. Why bring back Gonzalez who had a career year and will be asking for a crap load of money? He is not worth it at all. I also don't get the obsession with Dunn. Sure he can hit homeruns but he is a .250 career hitter. The Jays need complimentary players to their home run hitting lineup to allow some run production instead of having the majority of your runs scored off the homerun. AA has stated that he wants guys that can get on base, hit for average and run a bit and neither Dunn nor Gonzalez are that type of player.

Finally, how does it makes sense to bring in Lee? We already have 4 pitchers that have the ability to win 15+ games. With Drabek and Stewart close to the majors it would be a waste of money to bring in a free agent pitcher. Let the young guys develop and give them a chance to succeed.

miller74
10-05-2010, 09:56 AM
Aaron Hill offered to move to 3B so if he moves to third Bautista to RF, and sign a 2B who can lead off and sign a 1B/DH.

Heres a few other news and notes about the offseason

********************************/toronto_blue_jays/index.html

apparentely u cant post mlb trade rumours on this site. check it out few interesting notes
Now that i think about it i knew u could post that site, but check it out

shortfuze
10-05-2010, 10:21 AM
Bodes well for NEXT offseason. I was only 3 when the Jays last won the World Series but from what I understand the roughly 50 million dollar payroll of the time was almost like the Yankees of today and people wondered how they could even afford such a payroll. I doubt we'll ever have the spending power that the Yankees have, but it would be nice to rival Boston's pocket book.

theres a huge difference. the inflation wouldnt be that high. the payroll back then is no where near the yankees of today. when the jays had the highest payroll back then, the gap between the highest and second highest was not that much.

also, a big difference is that the jays arent getting 4 million fans a game anymore. thats a lot of extra money to add to the payroll. if they were selling out every game, or even 40,000 a game i am sure the payroll would easily be over 100 million every year.

T.O. Fan
10-05-2010, 11:44 AM
Clearly this is misunderstood.

scotttube
10-05-2010, 12:12 PM
This isn't really an unlimited budget, it is reasonable, but I'll take a shot at the team.

- Re-sign Bautista to the most reasonable 5-year deal you can. The longer you wait the higher his price will be. If he even puts up 30 HRs next year he will be worth it given his versatility (RF/3B) and defense. If you wait until next year to see if he is still hitting bombs his price tag just went up a lot because it will mean he's shown power from September 2009 into 2011 (track record = more money). They need to take a chance here.

- Sign Carlos Pena to play 1B. The guy is the perfect buy-low candidate given his disgusting batting average and down year in 2010. For whatever reason the batting average seems resonate with people a lot more than it should. The guy still gets on base, hits a lot of bombs and OPS's very well. There is no way he has as bad a season as his 2010 one in the next couple years. I'm not delusional - it will still probably take a $40 million deal over a 4 years but at least you won't have to give up draft pick compensation because he is a type B free agent and there is plenty of money to play with, right?

- Trade for Kelly Johnson to play 2B. I'm not sure what it would take to acquire but AA would definitely know since he's been hot on his trail. Move Aaron Hill to 3B.

- Try to sign Brandon Webb to an incentive laden deal.

- Pick up the 2 year option on Kevin Gregg.

- Non-tender Encarnacion, but try to retain him for a part-time/platoon type role with Lind and Pena.

- Re-sign Jose Molina to back up J.P. Arencibia.

- Offer Frasor and Downs arbitration. They likely won't accept, and collect draft picks.

- Off Buck arb, collect draft pick.

SS Escobar
2B Johnson
RF Bautista
1B Pena
CF Wells
DH Lind
2B Hill
LF Snider
C Arencibia

Bench Molina
Bench McDonald
Bench Lewis
Bench Encarnacion

SP Marcum
SP Romero
SP Morrow
SP Cecil
SP Webb/Drabek/Rzepczynski/Mills/Hill

CL Gregg
SU Camp
RP Purcey
RP Janssen
RP Roenicke
RP Carlson
RP Buchholz/Accardo../Rzepczynski/Mills/Magnuson/Farquhar the list goes on.

miller74
10-05-2010, 12:40 PM
This isn't really an unlimited budget, it is reasonable, but I'll take a shot at the team.

- Re-sign Bautista to the most reasonable 5-year deal you can. The longer you wait the higher his price will be. If he even puts up 30 HRs next year he will be worth it given his versatility (RF/3B) and defense. If you wait until next year to see if he is still hitting bombs his price tag just went up a lot because it will mean he's shown power from September 2009 into 2011 (track record = more money). They need to take a chance here.

- Sign Carlos Pena to play 1B. The guy is the perfect buy-low candidate given his disgusting batting average and down year in 2010. For whatever reason the batting average seems resonate with people a lot more than it should. The guy still gets on base, hits a lot of bombs and OPS's very well. There is no way he has as bad a season as his 2010 one in the next couple years. I'm not delusional - it will still probably take a $40 million deal over a 4 years but at least you won't have to give up draft pick compensation because he is a type B free agent and there is plenty of money to play with, right?

- Trade for Kelly Johnson to play 2B. I'm not sure what it would take to acquire but AA would definitely know since he's been hot on his trail. Move Aaron Hill to 3B.

- Try to sign Brandon Webb to an incentive laden deal.

- Pick up the 2 year option on Kevin Gregg.

- Non-tender Encarnacion, but try to retain him for a part-time/platoon type role with Lind and Pena.

- Re-sign Jose Molina to back up J.P. Arencibia.

- Offer Frasor and Downs arbitration. They likely won't accept, and collect draft picks.

- Off Buck arb, collect draft pick.

SS Escobar
2B Johnson
RF Bautista
1B Pena
CF Wells
DH Lind
2B Hill
LF Snider
C Arencibia

Bench Molina
Bench McDonald
Bench Lewis
Bench Encarnacion

SP Marcum
SP Romero
SP Morrow
SP Cecil
SP Webb/Drabek/Rzepczynski/Mills/Hill

CL Gregg
SU Camp
RP Purcey
RP Janssen
RP Roenicke
RP Carlson
RP Buchholz/Accardo../Rzepczynski/Mills/Magnuson/Farquhar the list goes on.

They have to let Snider become they player hes suppose to be and thats not a # 8 hitter, give him a chance to hit in the middle of the lineup

2009mvp
10-05-2010, 02:46 PM
This isn't really an unlimited budget, it is reasonable, but I'll take a shot at the team.

- Re-sign Bautista to the most reasonable 5-year deal you can. The longer you wait the higher his price will be. If he even puts up 30 HRs next year he will be worth it given his versatility (RF/3B) and defense. If you wait until next year to see if he is still hitting bombs his price tag just went up a lot because it will mean he's shown power from September 2009 into 2011 (track record = more money). They need to take a chance here.

- Sign Carlos Pena to play 1B. The guy is the perfect buy-low candidate given his disgusting batting average and down year in 2010. For whatever reason the batting average seems resonate with people a lot more than it should. The guy still gets on base, hits a lot of bombs and OPS's very well. There is no way he has as bad a season as his 2010 one in the next couple years. I'm not delusional - it will still probably take a $40 million deal over a 4 years but at least you won't have to give up draft pick compensation because he is a type B free agent and there is plenty of money to play with, right?

- Trade for Kelly Johnson to play 2B. I'm not sure what it would take to acquire but AA would definitely know since he's been hot on his trail. Move Aaron Hill to 3B.

- Try to sign Brandon Webb to an incentive laden deal.

- Pick up the 2 year option on Kevin Gregg.

- Non-tender Encarnacion, but try to retain him for a part-time/platoon type role with Lind and Pena.

- Re-sign Jose Molina to back up J.P. Arencibia.

- Offer Frasor and Downs arbitration. They likely won't accept, and collect draft picks.

- Off Buck arb, collect draft pick.

SS Escobar
2B Johnson
RF Bautista
1B Pena
CF Wells
DH Lind
2B Hill
LF Snider
C Arencibia

Bench Molina
Bench McDonald
Bench Lewis
Bench Encarnacion

SP Marcum
SP Romero
SP Morrow
SP Cecil
SP Webb/Drabek/Rzepczynski/Mills/Hill

CL Gregg
SU Camp
RP Purcey
RP Janssen
RP Roenicke
RP Carlson
RP Buchholz/Accardo../Rzepczynski/Mills/Magnuson/Farquhar the list goes on.

That's a lot of money spent on a team that might win 88 games.

broncosfan_101
10-05-2010, 03:24 PM
Build a package around Marcum and d'Arnaud for Adrian Gonzalez.

Sign a short term SP option like Brandon Webb to push Rzep/Stewart for the #5 spot.

Sign Brandon Inge to a short term deal to play 3B until Hechavarria is ready (Escobar or Hill then moves to 3B).

Hopefully bring John Buck back, but if not, collect the draft pick and bring in another mentor-type C.

LF - Snider
SS - Escobar
1B - Gonzalez
RF - Bautista
CF - Wells
DH - Lind
2B - Hill
C - Arencibia
3B - Inge

1. Romero
2. Morrow
3. Cecil
4. Drabek
5. Webb/Rzep/etc.

The bullpen will look similar (Downs, Frasor, Camp, Purcey, etc), but without Gregg and with a couple FA's sprinkled in.

Anyone else cool with that?

afclark82
10-05-2010, 03:47 PM
Build a package around Marcum and d'Arnaud for Adrian Gonzalez.

Sign a short term SP option like Brandon Webb to push Rzep/Stewart for the #5 spot.

Sign Brandon Inge to a short term deal to play 3B until Hechavarria is ready (Escobar or Hill then moves to 3B).

Hopefully bring John Buck back, but if not, collect the draft pick and bring in another mentor-type C.

LF - Snider
SS - Escobar
1B - Gonzalez
RF - Bautista
CF - Wells
DH - Lind
2B - Hill
C - Arencibia
3B - Inge

1. Romero
2. Morrow
3. Cecil
4. Drabek
5. Webb/Rzep/etc.

The bullpen will look similar (Downs, Frasor, Camp, Purcey, etc), but without Gregg and with a couple FA's sprinkled in.

Anyone else cool with that?

I love the Adrian Gonzalez idea for a trade and I think Marcum and D'Arnaud is a good starting package. I also absolutely love Brandon Inge but have a hard time seeing him anywhere but Detroit. If you are trading Marcum then you have to pick up a veteran to take his spot as the experienced guy on the team.... not a top line guy but someone that can come in and give 150 innings and win 10-15 games a season for a year or two. The only problem of trading Marcum this year is that you are putting a lot of pressure on two of the young guys if you can't bring in a free agent (i.e. Drabek, Steward, Mills) . Where if you keep Marcum you only have to rely on one of those young pitchers.

jon32
10-05-2010, 04:25 PM
Mets said they'd listen to deals for their stars.......what would we have to give for David Wright? Would anyone want him? Legit 3rd baseman

wamco
10-05-2010, 04:40 PM
I was only 3 when the Jays last won the World Series but from what I understand the roughly 50 million dollar payroll of the time was almost like the Yankees of today and people wondered how they could even afford such a payroll.

no

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/default.aspx

BlueJayCarter
10-05-2010, 09:12 PM
We wouldn't get David Wright. But the Dodgers are possibly non-tendering James Loney or willing to trade James Loney. He would be a good fit at first ... gets on base has okay pop (could be 15 - 20 HR a year) if we want to keep Lind at DH.

BlueJayCarter
10-05-2010, 09:15 PM
This isn't really an unlimited budget, it is reasonable, but I'll take a shot at the team.

- Re-sign Bautista to the most reasonable 5-year deal you can. The longer you wait the higher his price will be. If he even puts up 30 HRs next year he will be worth it given his versatility (RF/3B) and defense. If you wait until next year to see if he is still hitting bombs his price tag just went up a lot because it will mean he's shown power from September 2009 into 2011 (track record = more money). They need to take a chance here.

- Sign Carlos Pena to play 1B. The guy is the perfect buy-low candidate given his disgusting batting average and down year in 2010. For whatever reason the batting average seems resonate with people a lot more than it should. The guy still gets on base, hits a lot of bombs and OPS's very well. There is no way he has as bad a season as his 2010 one in the next couple years. I'm not delusional - it will still probably take a $40 million deal over a 4 years but at least you won't have to give up draft pick compensation because he is a type B free agent and there is plenty of money to play with, right?

- Trade for Kelly Johnson to play 2B. I'm not sure what it would take to acquire but AA would definitely know since he's been hot on his trail. Move Aaron Hill to 3B.

- Try to sign Brandon Webb to an incentive laden deal.

- Pick up the 2 year option on Kevin Gregg.

- Non-tender Encarnacion, but try to retain him for a part-time/platoon type role with Lind and Pena.

- Re-sign Jose Molina to back up J.P. Arencibia.

- Offer Frasor and Downs arbitration. They likely won't accept, and collect draft picks.

- Off Buck arb, collect draft pick.

SS Escobar
2B Johnson
RF Bautista
1B Pena
CF Wells
DH Lind
2B Hill
LF Snider
C Arencibia

Bench Molina
Bench McDonald
Bench Lewis
Bench Encarnacion

SP Marcum
SP Romero
SP Morrow
SP Cecil
SP Webb/Drabek/Rzepczynski/Mills/Hill

CL Gregg
SU Camp
RP Purcey
RP Janssen
RP Roenicke
RP Carlson
RP Buchholz/Accardo../Rzepczynski/Mills/Magnuson/Farquhar the list goes on.

Don't like the idea of Johnson ... no real point. I say a three year contract maybe a fourth year for Bautista ... your bullpen looks like how it will be going into Spring Training next season ... maybe one or two cheap veteran ball players as well.

Where is Drabek at fifth starter position?

broncosfan_101
10-05-2010, 09:34 PM
I love the Adrian Gonzalez idea for a trade and I think Marcum and D'Arnaud is a good starting package. I also absolutely love Brandon Inge but have a hard time seeing him anywhere but Detroit. If you are trading Marcum then you have to pick up a veteran to take his spot as the experienced guy on the team.... not a top line guy but someone that can come in and give 150 innings and win 10-15 games a season for a year or two. The only problem of trading Marcum this year is that you are putting a lot of pressure on two of the young guys if you can't bring in a free agent (i.e. Drabek, Steward, Mills) . Where if you keep Marcum you only have to rely on one of those young pitchers.

I'd only move Marcum if I have secured a Brandon Webb/Jon Garland (Jeff Francis?) type starter already. No sense in acquiring an Adrian Gonzalez to make a push if your last 2 SP spots are questionable, with no real immediate depth. Romero/Morrow/Cecil/Drabek/Webb/Rzepczynski is a good enough 6 man squad to make the playoffs, no doubt about it. Add Gonzalez and a full year of Escobar and Snider, plus bounceback years from Hill and Lind to make up for the obvious Wells/Bautista regressions, and it's not hard to imagine us getting to the 90-win mark.

broncosfan_101
10-05-2010, 09:41 PM
We wouldn't get David Wright. But the Dodgers are possibly non-tendering James Loney or willing to trade James Loney. He would be a good fit at first ... gets on base has okay pop (could be 15 - 20 HR a year) if we want to keep Lind at DH.

If Loverbay was hated by Jays fans, Loney would be despised...How long do we wait for a 26 year old 1B to develop any sort of power? A career OPS of .784 and wOBA of .339 is TERRIBLE at that position.

As for David Wright, I think it'd be a little nuts to overpay for him coming off his huge year. Also, his defense has gotten bad over the last 2 years, so I'd look in another direction.

EDIT - Forgot to add about the David Wright idea, what would your plan then be when Hechavarria is ready? Move him to 1B? Cause we'll need the 3B spot for either Escobar or Hill (with the other playing 2B) when that time comes, which I'm guessing will be some time in 2012.

MetsLegacy
10-05-2010, 10:26 PM
I could only imagine what a Blue Jays team having either Crawford/Werth, Adam Dunn, Jose Bautsita, Aaron Hill + the great pitching staff would be like like.

This team is very enjoyable to spectate.

jaysfan55
10-05-2010, 10:34 PM
Getting Adrian Gonzales would be awesome..but we would have to give up alot..I dont think seperating that rotation is a good thing to do right now..the top 4 are all on the same page and can easily win 14-15 games each next year if not more from romero and cecil.. as for the 5th starter...Drabek pitched well in his 3 starts..but needs a little more time on the farm to build up endurance and strength a little more. So i say we need to find a veteran to fill the 5th starter role, plus it adds some more leadership in the rotation. The pen could use a boost..I like Camp, Purcey, Roenicke I say move Sean Hill to the pen and sign 2 replacements and keep Gregg or sign Soriano... this team is not far from 90 plus wins...and all we need to do is bring in a few guys to make that happen.. AA will make it happen someway somehow...

jaysfan55
10-05-2010, 10:40 PM
I could only imagine what a Blue Jays team having either Crawford/Werth, Adam Dunn, Jose Bautsita, Aaron Hill + the great pitching staff would be like like.

This team is very enjoyable to spectate.


Signing Crawford and moving Bautista to 3rd is good (like this move)

sign Werth to Play DH moving Lind to 1st (like this move)

re-sign Buck to mentor JPA

find a 5th starter until Drabek is ready full time... (Webb/Garland/Bush etc..)

This alone could help us get us to the 90-95 win mark and maybe even a shot at lease at the wild card..

but it all depends on who is running this team..

bomber0104
10-05-2010, 11:10 PM
i think its too early to go for it to be honest.. I would like to see guys like Morrow, Romero, Cecil perform for another year and also see what Drabek does.

I would ride it out next year and if everything is set, go for broke the following year.

2009mvp
10-05-2010, 11:22 PM
Signing Crawford and moving Bautista to 3rd is good (like this move)

sign Werth to Play DH moving Lind to 1st (like this move)

re-sign Buck to mentor JPA

find a 5th starter until Drabek is ready full time... (Webb/Garland/Bush etc..)

This alone could help us get us to the 90-95 win mark and maybe even a shot at lease at the wild card..

but it all depends on who is running this team..


You realize you're talking about at the very least a 150M investment for Crawford and Werth, right?

85 wins is fantastic, but let's try to keep perspective here. Didn't the '03 Jays win 86 only to follow that up with the only last place finish in a quarter century or something? Not to say that this team is due for a similar collapse, just that they're probably a little further away than an 85 win season would indicate, especially when they're still sitting behind the Rays, Yanks, and Sox.

Luca68
10-05-2010, 11:29 PM
remember thats 85 wins in the al east, in any other division it could be a lot better.

2009mvp
10-06-2010, 02:03 AM
^^Well I'll be, are the divisions being realigned and I missed the memo? Otherwise, that doesn't mean much.

statquo
10-06-2010, 02:28 AM
I think we should just sit back and let guys keep developing. Another year to get to know the opposition, another year for the youth to develop, another year for guys like Hill and Lind to figure it out, and then after that see where we are.

torontosports10
10-06-2010, 10:05 AM
Boys, I love me some Jays just as much as the next guy, but we simply are not ready.

We need to let this pitchers develop one more season, let some of our prospect move up and put up big numbers to get noticied before we start going after every big name FA out there. That way we can afford to lose a draft pick here and there, have the high end specs to deal for that missing piece and have the talent on the MLB roster that is ready to compete for the playoffs. LONG TERM GOAL!

For this off-season, we can forget about Werth and Crawford. They are the class of the class and wont be coming North. I like the idea of an incentive laden deal for a pitcher like Webb, and worst case, he does bad. Best case try to re-sign him, if not deal him at the deadline.

Im interested in moving Hill to 3rd. He has the offense and defense to play there. I'd be quite interested in bringing back the O-Dawg to play second until Heck is ready as well. We would have great infield defense once again, and enough bat potential at all those positions.

Id look into Dunn as well as he and Lind could split time at DH and 1B and he has always been a fan of mine.

Other then that, shore up the pen, but collect the draft picks were available, sign a few lower key guys. We got a ton of pen arms on the club and on the farm. Look to sign Bautista to a contract that benefits both him and the club (aka club option deal, with decent money up front and decent buyout for Jose).

Other than that wait another year and do this all over again!

North Yorker
10-06-2010, 10:29 AM
I would like to see this team go for it this year, but it's probably not the smartest thing to do. We may even take a small step back next year as Arencibia and Drabek(maybe) get a lot of ML games under their belt.

We are gonna lose Buck,which is gonna be a big blow imo, and how JPA handles the staff and does at the plate is gonna take some time. Some growing pains are to be expected.

I think if we are going to do anything note worthy this off-season it will be via trade. AA wants to get more athletic, so I see a trade for a leadoff LF'er as a possibility. Move Snider to RF, Bautista to 3B,Lewis is the 4th OF'er.

the_jon
10-06-2010, 12:45 PM
You realize you're talking about at the very least a 150M investment for Crawford and Werth, right?

85 wins is fantastic, but let's try to keep perspective here. Didn't the '03 Jays win 86 only to follow that up with the only last place finish in a quarter century or something? Not to say that this team is due for a similar collapse, just that they're probably a little further away than an 85 win season would indicate, especially when they're still sitting behind the Rays, Yanks, and Sox.
Exactly this.

People were picking us to lose 100 games for a reason. We hit a mountain of home runs that we just aren't going to see next year. Bautista is due for a drop, SS is due for a drop (no Gonzalez) E5 is due for a drop by virtue of lost playing time (I hope). Buck makes way for J.P. Arencibia (I hope) Wells will probably drop a little. We have guys who could and should see a rise in the HRs (especially Snider if he gets to play everyday) but I think the drops in HR production will far outweigh the rises.

Not only that but it's hard to keep leads when your bullpen sucks horse ****.

wamco
10-06-2010, 08:17 PM
We wouldn't get David Wright. But the Dodgers are possibly non-tendering James Loney or willing to trade James Loney. He would be a good fit at first ... gets on base has okay pop (could be 15 - 20 HR a year) if we want to keep Lind at DH.

I think Pathetic pop for a 1bman is what you were looking for, not okay.

wamco
10-06-2010, 08:20 PM
I think we should just sit back and let guys keep developing. Another year to get to know the opposition, another year for the youth to develop, another year for guys like Hill and Lind to figure it out, and then after that see where we are.


Every other team will do this as well.

How does signing a great player to play along a young player not let them keep developing?

jaysfan4ever
10-07-2010, 12:07 AM
Boys, I love me some Jays just as much as the next guy, but we simply are not ready.

We need to let this pitchers develop one more season, let some of our prospect move up and put up big numbers to get noticied before we start going after every big name FA out there. That way we can afford to lose a draft pick here and there, have the high end specs to deal for that missing piece and have the talent on the MLB roster that is ready to compete for the playoffs. LONG TERM GOAL!

For this off-season, we can forget about Werth and Crawford. They are the class of the class and wont be coming North. I like the idea of an incentive laden deal for a pitcher like Webb, and worst case, he does bad. Best case try to re-sign him, if not deal him at the deadline.

Im interested in moving Hill to 3rd. He has the offense and defense to play there. I'd be quite interested in bringing back the O-Dawg to play second until Heck is ready as well. We would have great infield defense once again, and enough bat potential at all those positions.

Id look into Dunn as well as he and Lind could split time at DH and 1B and he has always been a fan of mine.

Other then that, shore up the pen, but collect the draft picks were available, sign a few lower key guys. We got a ton of pen arms on the club and on the farm. Look to sign Bautista to a contract that benefits both him and the club (aka club option deal, with decent money up front and decent buyout for Jose).

Other than that wait another year and do this all over again!

I agree. If we're looking to compete, we're gonna need young cheap stars, like Tampa, which is what AA said. We don't have em yet, except for Romero and Cecil, so we're probably not ready to compete yet.

Also, Fred Lewis had the most ABs on the team when he played, because he was the leadoff hitter. Yunel Escobar and his .762OPS and average speed isn't any better. We're gonna need a solid leadoff hitter to compete. Kelly Johnson is a start.

And we can't compete with Gregg as our closer. And I can't believe people are looking at BJ Ryan 2.0 in Rafael Soriano. We need to first, let our relievers walk (Downs, Gregg, and Frasor), and take the picks. To fill the void, the first option would be to trade for a young closing spec (We've got trade bait in Rzep and Mills). The second option would be to pickup a Gregg 2.0 this year on a 1-year deal, as we'd probably be buying a Type A draft pick, when we let him walk after the season. There are plenty of these types available: Uehara, Rauch, Fuentes, Benoit, Putz, Qualls.

Might as well go after young players to fill the holes in our roster. If we can't get them, then we take the bargain route like AA did last year with guys like Gregg, Gonzalez and Buck this year. JPA shouldn't be a full-time catcher, because our young pitchers deserve a good play-caller. He should be splitting the catching duties with a good game-caller, which usually isn't hard to find on the FA market.

As for the big-name free agents:

Crawford? Naw, there's a reason that he isn't leading off for the Rays anymore. Werth? Not werth it. Dunn? Seriously? Dude couldn't get the Nats to win any more games, and he fades in the second half. Beltre? Ask Seattle how that one turned out. Lee? Do we really wanna overpay for a 32 year old pitcher, and give him a long-term contract? Dude could be the next AJ burnett.

Pena's a decent option for 1B, as he's still young enough to be productive. Guzman might be a decent bargain 2b. And I wouldn't mind trying out Brad Hawpe at RF/DH if we can't fill the spot. He could be of some value.

nstojic
10-07-2010, 12:12 AM
Crawford? Naw, there's a reason that he isn't leading off for the Rays anymore. Werth? Not werth it. Dunn? Seriously? Dude couldn't get the Nats to win any more games, and he fades in the second half. Beltre? Ask Seattle how that one turned out. Lee? Do we really wanna overpay for a 32 year old pitcher, and give him a long-term contract? Dude could be the next AJ burnett.



this makes so much sense....

i'd rather save most of the coin and wait for the pujols/gonzalez/fielder offseason and take a real shot there...

2009mvp
10-07-2010, 12:16 AM
I agree. If we're looking to compete, we're gonna need young cheap stars, like Tampa, which is what AA said. We don't have em yet, except for Romero and Cecil, so we're probably not ready to compete yet.

Also, Fred Lewis had the most ABs on the team when he played, because he was the leadoff hitter. Yunel Escobar and his .762OPS and average speed isn't any better. We're gonna need a solid leadoff hitter to compete. Kelly Johnson is a start.

And we can't compete with Gregg as our closer. And I can't believe people are looking at BJ Ryan 2.0 in Rafael Soriano. We need to first, let our relievers walk (Downs, Gregg, and Frasor), and take the picks. To fill the void, the first option would be to trade for a young closing spec (We've got trade bait in Rzep and Mills). The second option would be to pickup a Gregg 2.0 this year on a 1-year deal, as we'd probably be buying a Type A draft pick, when we let him walk after the season. There are plenty of these types available: Uehara, Rauch, Fuentes, Benoit, Putz, Qualls.

Might as well go after young players to fill the holes in our roster. If we can't get them, then we take the bargain route like AA did last year with guys like Gregg, Gonzalez and Buck this year. JPA shouldn't be a full-time catcher, because our young pitchers deserve a good play-caller. He should be splitting the catching duties with a good game-caller, which usually isn't hard to find on the FA market.

As for the big-name free agents:

Crawford? Naw, there's a reason that he isn't leading off for the Rays anymore. Werth? Not werth it. Dunn? Seriously? Dude couldn't get the Nats to win any more games, and he fades in the second half. Beltre? Ask Seattle how that one turned out. Lee? Do we really wanna overpay for a 32 year old pitcher, and give him a long-term contract? Dude could be the next AJ burnett.

Pena's a decent option for 1B, as he's still young enough to be productive. Guzman might be a decent bargain 2b. And I wouldn't mind trying out Brad Hawpe at RF/DH if we can't fill the spot. He could be of some value.

And who says JPA isn't?

ah nuts
10-07-2010, 04:21 PM
are there any teams out there trying or open to dumping a high $$$ but talented players in a trade???

Kenny Powders
10-07-2010, 04:46 PM
I've said this before, Toronto fans of all sports are just not patient enough. The reality of the situation is that this team is probably going to regress next year.

With a new manager coming in who will, hopefully, let a few of our younger players actually play will lead to some growing pains. I am perfectly fine with that. Wait a few years and our team will look much more appealing to UFAs, instead of overpaying for them now.

This rebuilding process is going to be a marathon, not a race.

jaysnraptors44
10-07-2010, 08:29 PM
Crawford-Lf
Escobar-ss
Bautista-rf

Kenny Powders
10-07-2010, 08:45 PM
Crawford-Lf
Escobar-ss
Bautista-rf

I am sorry. But I don't follow....at all.

ah nuts
10-07-2010, 09:58 PM
I've said this before, Toronto fans of all sports are just not patient enough. The reality of the situation is that this team is probably going to regress next year.

With a new manager coming in who will, hopefully, let a few of our younger players actually play will lead to some growing pains. I am perfectly fine with that. Wait a few years and our team will look much more appealing to UFAs, instead of overpaying for them now.

This rebuilding process is going to be a marathon, not a race.

the only problem with that - we have a 40-50 homer guy, who knows how long that will last.

I see no "strong" reason why the jays will regress. A player or 2 could regress but a player or 2 will grow. Hill and Lind alone screams of that. Also 2010 5th starter position didn't do that well, lots of room for improvement.

ChacinCologne
10-08-2010, 04:17 AM
I say we go for Manny Ramirez as DH, would only cost 1 year deal.

Rotation is fine, but I'd take a chance on Bedard if price is right.

wamco
10-09-2010, 02:58 PM
Crawford? Naw, there's a reason that he isn't leading off for the Rays anymore. Werth? Not werth it. Dunn? Seriously? Dude couldn't get the Nats to win any more games, and he fades in the second half. Beltre? Ask Seattle how that one turned out. Lee? Do we really wanna overpay for a 32 year old pitcher, and give him a long-term contract? Dude could be the next AJ burnett.

just wow.

dtmagnet
10-10-2010, 02:34 PM
I am sorry. But I don't follow....at all.

I think he's saying that could be our 1 2 3 batting order.

Kenny Powders
10-10-2010, 05:15 PM
I think he's saying that could be our 1 2 3 batting order.

I getcha. Thanks

The_905
10-11-2010, 01:14 PM
Crawford? Naw, there's a reason that he isn't leading off for the Rays anymore. Werth? Not werth it. Dunn? Seriously? Dude couldn't get the Nats to win any more games, and he fades in the second half. Beltre? Ask Seattle how that one turned out. Lee? Do we really wanna overpay for a 32 year old pitcher, and give him a long-term contract? Dude could be the next AJ burnett.

just wow.


ya that is one stupid comment.. So much is wrong with that statement it;s not even worth it..

FlakeyFool
10-12-2010, 05:55 PM
I hope people aren't going to kill themselves when we regress next season

wowzman
10-12-2010, 11:27 PM
Got $60M to $100M to spend?

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/columns/story?columnist=edes_gordon&id=5675749


That leaves the two big names on the free-agent market, Tampa Bay's Carl Crawford and Philadelphia's Jayson Werth. Crawford brings great speed, exceptional defense and is younger than Werth (Crawford is 29, Werth 31). Werth has more power and bats right-handed, which may be a better fit for the Sox if they don't bring back Adrian Beltre and/or Victor Martinez.


Crawford is expected to be a prime target of the Yankees, who need a top-of-the-order presence now that Derek Jeter has reached the twilight of his career. The Angels are expected to be major bidders as well, which could easily place Crawford in a position of commanding a seven-year deal in excess of $100 million.

Werth presumably would come cheaper. Bay was 31 last year when the Sox offered him a four-year, $60 million deal that they later took off the table.


The Sox will probably be aggressive for both players, but Werth would rate as much more than a consolation prize if Crawford goes elsewhere.

As much as I would enjoy seeing either of these players as a Jay, I don't believe either player should be in the Jays plans.

Getting into a bidding war with the Yankees, Red Sox and the Angels is probably not a good idea, even if the money is available. We would probably regret either players contract in 2 years like we lament Vernon`s contract now.

Are we really only one or two players away from a legitimate contender in the AL East?

I dont think so. I think we need a little more seasoning yet, at least one more year.

nithanyo
10-13-2010, 12:45 AM
Cliff Lee's offseason performance makes me want him as a Jay so badly.

Imagine

Lee
Romero
Morrow
Cecil
Drabek

With Marcum being moved for a lead-off hitting outfielder or closer our team would be pretty dangerous.

bartron_44
10-13-2010, 09:51 AM
Cliff Lee's offseason performance makes me want him as a Jay so badly.

Imagine

Lee
Romero
Morrow
Cecil
Drabek

With Marcum being moved for a lead-off hitting outfielder or closer our team would be pretty dangerous.

I would agree..but not just this years performance.....he has been doing his thing in the post season (and regular season) for a while now. He is a legit ace to anchor a championship team. I think he may choose to join Doc in Philly when the dust settles, but I hope AA offers him a BOAT LOAD of cash to come be our ace for the next 4-5 years...

We may not win it next year, but we would have one of the best pitchers in baseball locked up for when we are ready in a year or 2. I say if we can outbid the Yanks and Red Sox and Phillies somehow, DO IT!!!!


Also, anyonw who says Adam Dunn wouldn't help this team, please tell me the highest level of ball that you have played, because you obviously do not know what you are talking about. Dunn hits like 40HR's per year, drives in 100+, and normally has an OBP over .380...He has been consistent since like 2004, so there is no reason he wouldn't hit 35+ HR's with an OBP over .375....you wouldn't take that from either a 1B or DH? I'm pretty sure that is the kind of production we have been begging for from a 1st basemen since Delgado left. He is also a left handed bat to replace Overbay.

If you really want Drabek to be our 5th starter next year, you could even add a trade to this offseason like some other talked about, and offer up Marcum,Cooper and D'Arnaud for Adrian Gonzalez.

Then you bring back Buck to catch this rotation (and tutor JPA),and you bring back Downs and Gregg to anchor the bullpen.

Escobar-SS
Snider-RF
Bautista-3B
Gonzalez-1B
Wells-CF
Dunn-DH
Hill-2B
Lind-LF
Buck/JPA

Is that team really not ready to compete?That could be the first team ever with 7 guys hitting 30+ HR's..and with the additions of guys like Escobar, Gonzalez and Dunn; our team OBP should be a lot better too.

I realize it is a lot of money, but we are talking unlimited payroll :)

Cliff Lee- 25M/yr
Buck-10M for 2 years
Dunn- 40M for 4 years

If those numbers are about what it would take to land those players, then that is only ~40M extra to what we are spending now. A big increase, but a number that should be doable for our owners..

2009mvp
10-13-2010, 01:14 PM
Marcum was excellent last year, but let's remember that we're talking about a soon to be 29 year old who's never thrown 200 innings in a big league season. Some of you are seriously overrating his trade value (in this thread and the trade idea one).

B2B
10-13-2010, 01:24 PM
are there any teams out there trying or open to dumping a high $$$ but talented players in a trade???

Brewers want to trade Fielder for pitching a 1-2 starter (Marcum) & maybe a prospect/s?.

Fielder is probably going to command 15-20mil a year but fills 1B & DH with 30+ HRs & 100+ RBIs

HOTDAMthe24
10-13-2010, 01:50 PM
Without going back through all of the posts to see if this has been mentioned...I'd like to see the Jays explore trades for Yonder Alonso, he's blocked by Votto and the Reds are in good enough shape that they may only require pieces to complement what they have going and low level prospects. Also, Dayan Viciedo from Chicago. Without looking into it, to me it seems like he's fallen out of favor. He was on the bench in favor of Omar Vizquel, Mark Teahen and another prospect Brent Morel. If Morel is the future guy, they could deal Viciedo for a position of need.

T.O. Fan
10-13-2010, 02:22 PM
Alonso is Brett Wallace 2.0, or should I say Lyle Overbay 3.0.

broncosfan_101
10-13-2010, 03:39 PM
Brewers want to trade Fielder for pitching a 1-2 starter (Marcum) & maybe a prospect/s?.

Fielder is probably going to command 15-20mil a year but fills 1B & DH with 30+ HRs & 100+ RBIs

Going after Adrian Gonzalez makes a little more sense, because San Diego is more likely to be heavily interested in Marcum. His low GB% won't trouble them at all with that massive park, and he'd have a chance to put up REALLY good numbers there. Plus, he's quite a bit better than Fielder...

scotttube
10-13-2010, 03:58 PM
Trade for Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez
-using prospects, I don't know what value you would have to give up but in this scenario it could be Drabek + more.

Sign Cliff Lee (I said go for broke didn't I)

Sign Carl Crawford

Sign Rafael Soriano


Starters
Cliff Lee ($20)
Shaun Marcum ($2-3 in arb)
Ricky Romero ($2 including signing bonus)
Brett Cecil ($400K)
Brandon Morrow ($800 1st arb)

Bullpen
Rafael Soriano ($9-10)
Kevin Gregg ($4.5)
Scott Downs ($4)
Shawn Camp ($3 arb)
Casey Janssen ($1 arb)
David Purcey (400K)
Jesse Carlson (400K)

Lineup
LF Carl Crawford ($15)
SS Yunel Escobar ($800K arb)
3B Jose Bautista ($10 LT deal)
1B Prince Fielder ($10)/Adrian Gonzalez ($5.5)
CF Vernon Wells ($23)
DH Adam Lind ($5)
RF Travis Snider ($400K)
2B Aaron Hill ($5)
C JP Arencibia ($400K)

Bench
C Jose Molina ($1)
INF John McDonald ($1.5)
OF Fred Lewis ($2 arb)
DH/3B/1B Edwin Encarnacion ($2 - non-tender but re-sign)


Total $125 million (high-end, with Fielder, $120 mil with Gonzalez).

If I had to hack it down to $120 including Fielder the first cut would be not picking up Gregg's option. Also, the payroll would go up after 2011 when re-signing Prince or AGon.


Amazing what money can buy if you just open your wallet.

nithanyo
10-13-2010, 11:21 PM
Trade for Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez
-using prospects, I don't know what value you would have to give up but in this scenario it could be Drabek + more.

Sign Cliff Lee (I said go for broke didn't I)

Sign Carl Crawford

Sign Rafael Soriano


Starters
Cliff Lee ($20)
Shaun Marcum ($2-3 in arb)
Ricky Romero ($2 including signing bonus)
Brett Cecil ($400K)
Brandon Morrow ($800 1st arb)

Bullpen
Rafael Soriano ($9-10)
Kevin Gregg ($4.5)
Scott Downs ($4)
Shawn Camp ($3 arb)
Casey Janssen ($1 arb)
David Purcey (400K)
Jesse Carlson (400K)

Lineup
LF Carl Crawford ($15)
SS Yunel Escobar ($800K arb)
3B Jose Bautista ($10 LT deal)
1B Prince Fielder ($10)/Adrian Gonzalez ($5.5)
CF Vernon Wells ($23)
DH Adam Lind ($5)
RF Travis Snider ($400K)
2B Aaron Hill ($5)
C JP Arencibia ($400K)

Bench
C Jose Molina ($1)
INF John McDonald ($1.5)
OF Fred Lewis ($2 arb)
DH/3B/1B Edwin Encarnacion ($2 - non-tender but re-sign)


Total $125 million (high-end, with Fielder, $120 mil with Gonzalez).

If I had to hack it down to $120 including Fielder the first cut would be not picking up Gregg's option. Also, the payroll would go up after 2011 when re-signing Prince or AGon.


Amazing what money can buy if you just open your wallet.

If we do that we would have just bought out the Free Agent scene and got ourselves prince through a trade. I dont think its happening tho

wamco
10-14-2010, 08:41 AM
all free agents are the devil! stay the course, rebuild rebuild rebuild! Cmon people you are soooo shortsighted! Remember we are a small market team! This is the kind of talk JP would have!

bartron_44
10-14-2010, 08:55 AM
In realize in reality we are not getting Lee, therefore here is a more realistic wish list:

Make Soriano priority number 1, and sign him to be our new anchor.

Bring back Gonzalez on a 1 or 2 year deal to see if he can repeat anything close to what he did this season. Put him at second base, and move Hill over to 3rd, and we have the beginning of an excellent infield.

Bring back John Buck to be our starting C, and turn JPA into a first baseman. His bat screams 1B/DH prospect, and we have a boat load of excellent defensive catchers coming behind him. I think he would be better than Lind at first, so maybe send him to winter ball to begin the transition..


Bullpen

Soriano
Jannsen
Downs
Carlson
Purcey
Magnuson
Farquhar

Rotation

Marcum
Cecil
Morrow
Romero
Drabek

Lineup

Snider- LF
Escobar - SS
Bautista - RF
Wells - CF
Lind - DH
Hill - 3B
Gonzalez - 2B
Buck - C
JPA - 1B

Bench

Mastroianni
Jeroloman
McCoy
McDonald

What do you guys think of that, could JPA be our future 1st baseman?

Asham
10-14-2010, 10:04 AM
Trade Drabek, Arencibia and Gose for Zack Greinke
Trade stewart, hech and d'arnaud for Adrian Gonzalez
Give the rest of the farm system including the new minor league teams for Colby Rasmus
Sign Cliff Lee 5 yr/125 million dollar contract
Sign carl crawford to 5 yr/100 million dollar contract

Eagles4Lyfe
10-14-2010, 01:22 PM
Going after Adrian Gonzalez makes a little more sense, because San Diego is more likely to be heavily interested in Marcum. His low GB% won't trouble them at all with that massive park, and he'd have a chance to put up REALLY good numbers there. Plus, he's quite a bit better than Fielder...

Ya a-gon would be the most preferable, thing is padres almost made playoffs this year so they might think they can make it next year with a couple additions and hold onto a-gon possibly even giving him the raise he wants..
If they cant get in on him i would love to be on him and darvish..The rest we can fill via assets

2009mvp
10-14-2010, 02:25 PM
all free agents are the devil! stay the course, rebuild rebuild rebuild! Cmon people you are soooo shortsighted! Remember we are a small market team! This is the kind of talk JP would have!

Yea, it probably is actually. A brilliant way to stick the Jays in an 88-win rut. We can all live in la-la land where this supposed 'unlimited budget' is a reality, or we can understand that realistically anything even approaching 120M for the next few years is a pipedream.

B2B
10-14-2010, 03:30 PM
Going after Adrian Gonzalez makes a little more sense, because San Diego is more likely to be heavily interested in Marcum. His low GB% won't trouble them at all with that massive park, and he'd have a chance to put up REALLY good numbers there. Plus, he's quite a bit better than Fielder...

Gonzales would require more value to acquire than fielder.

^ According to the Boston Globe , Hoyer had apparently asked the Red Sox for pitcher Clay Buchholz, right handed pitching prospect Casey Kelly & or outfielder Ryan Westmoreland.

I don't think Jays/Marcum can match what Boston can/would offer for Gonzalez.

Brewer's want a potential #2 pitcher for Fielder

^ Jays have pitching depth + I don't think Boston has as much interest in him, as they do Gonzalez.

scotttube
10-16-2010, 02:50 AM
It's hard to figure who is more valuable. Both are potential free agents after next season, Gonzalez seems more consistent and better defensively but Fielder has the potential for a monster year, gets a higher on-base and is 2 years younger. Fielder's deal is higher though at $10 mil compared to $5.5 and he also seems less likely to re-sign.

2009mvp
10-16-2010, 03:13 AM
It's hard to figure who is more valuable. Both are potential free agents after next season, Gonzalez seems more consistent and better defensively but Fielder has the potential for a monster year, gets a higher on-base and is 2 years younger. Fielder's deal is higher though at $10 mil compared to $5.5 and he also seems less likely to re-sign.

Not really. One's arguably the best defensive 1B in the league, the other should probably be a DH. Offensively it's closer of course, though I'm one of those who believe Gonzalez could be downright Pujols-esque if you take him outta Petco.

jaysnraptors44
10-16-2010, 07:15 PM
I say we first look into the trade market and try to get P.Fielder , possibly trade 1st round pick deck mcguire and some other pitching prospects.Then sign Carl crawford who has great speed which the jays really need. Sign Adrian Beltre a gold glover, resign Buck and some good relievers and we have a yankee type of team.
2011 Bluejays dream team:


LF-Carl Crawford
SS-Yunel Escobar
RF-Jose Bautista
1B/DH-Prince Fielder
CF-Vernon Wells
3B-Adrian Beltre
1B/DH-Adam Lind
2B-Aaron Hill
C-J.Buck/J.P Arencibia

Starting Rotation
S.Marcum
R.Romero
B.Cecil
B.Morrow
K.Drabek

ah nuts
10-16-2010, 08:05 PM
I say we first look into the trade market and try to get P.Fielder , possibly trade 1st round pick deck mcguire and some other pitching prospects.Then sign Carl crawford who has great speed which the jays really need. Sign Adrian Beltre a gold glover, resign Buck and some good relievers and we have a yankee type of team.
2011 Bluejays dream team:


LF-Carl Crawford
SS-Yunel Escobar
RF-Jose Bautista
1B/DH-Prince Fielder
CF-Vernon Wells
3B-Adrian Beltre
1B/DH-Adam Lind
2B-Aaron Hill
C-J.Buck/J.P Arencibia

Starting Rotation
S.Marcum
R.Romero
B.Cecil
B.Morrow
K.Drabek

where's snider?

jaysnraptors44
10-16-2010, 09:12 PM
good point i'll have to think about that :P

GNick
10-21-2010, 08:48 AM
I feel that if he can get an elite guy like Crawford he will jump all over it but he should not pull a JP and think the team is ready for the playoffs after one season above expectations. The Jays are in a position where they want to build the farm system and develop the team from within. Once they get there they will then add complimentary pieces through trade and free agent signing. Signing all of the guys that jaysfan55 suggested would be foolish and be exactly what JP did the year he went after Burnett and Ryan. It would be foolish and probably not work. Even New York and Boston have shown that having a foundation of players developed in your own organization works far better than signing a million free agents at top dollar and hope they all fit into the fold.

IMHO AA should do the following:
Manager
- Sign Rivera as Mananger and keep Walton, Langsford, Murphy as coaches (I have a hard time seeing Butterfield/Leyva staying if they don't get the managers job)

Outfield
- Give a crap load of money to Crawford to be your leadoff hitter and have an outfield of (Crawford, Snyder, Wells)
- If we cannot get Crawford than resign Bautista for the OF with Snyder, Wells

Bullpen
- Resign Downs and/or pick up a veteran bullpen arm or two
- Pickup the one year option of Gregg as the closer
- Fill the rest of the bullpen with young guys who show promise (incl. Rzep, Camp, Janssen, Purcey, Carlson, Roenicke, etc.)

Infield
- Trade some of these excess arms for a 1B/DH, Lind plays the other --- worse case scenario sign Overbay to a 1-2 year extension (he is a gold glove calibre 1B and if he wasn't making so much we would have been happy to have him)
- Resign Bautista for 3B, if he is in the OF I would not be adverse to giving Encarnacion a 1 year deal until we either develop a 3B (one of Hechavarria/Hill/Escobar will end up at 3B)
- Resign Buck to split time with JPA (if willing), otherwise resign Molina

Starting Rotation
- DO NOTHING... it makes no sense to spend money on a #5 pitcher when we have a crap load of guys much better than a #5 coming up through the system.
- Have a rotation of Cecil, Romero, Morrow, Marcum, and the best from spring training (from Hill, Litsch (if healthy), McGowen (if healthy), Drabek, Stewart, etc.)

I wouldn't touch Crawford. He is a big contract with rumors of knee problems playing on turf in Tampa. Not really the smartest long term investment. He has been hot and cold his whole career. If we have to give up a first round pick on Crawford another reason to avoid him.

FlakeyFool
10-21-2010, 11:48 AM
Keyword; rumor

StayOnBoard
10-21-2010, 03:45 PM
Not really. One's arguably the best defensive 1B in the league, the other should probably be a DH. Offensively it's closer of course, though I'm one of those who believe Gonzalez could be downright Pujols-esque if you take him outta Petco.

I agree completely... I can't even imagine the damage he'd do in our ballpark (with our lineup)

Im fully in favor of getting A-Gon, even if it includes a deal like Marcum + Drabek + another prospect (which is a huge haul for the Padres).

We can't rape our farm system but going out and getting a guy in a position of need would sure be something.

Of course, he'd want an extension - likely close to 20 mil a year... not sure how that would fit and I dont see it happening but its fun to discuss :)

GNick
10-23-2010, 05:52 AM
Keyword; rumor

Do we have to surrender our first round pick if we sign Crawford?

ILDD
10-23-2010, 11:48 AM
Do we have to surrender our first round pick if we sign Crawford?

Yes.

Blue Jays are picking at #21, the top 15 (plus 3 comp picks making 18 total) are protected.