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View Full Version : Tim McCarver: Terry Francona Is The AL Manager of the Year



J4KOP99
10-02-2010, 04:57 PM
As I'm watching the Yankees vs. Boston game McCarver goes in to how he believes Francona is the manager of the year...


I am not really sure what is making him think this but I thought some of you would find this pretty interesting.



I guess Tim doesn't believe that Ron Washington, Ron Gardenhire, Girardi or Joe Maddon are deserving enough.

Corey
10-02-2010, 05:00 PM
I'm sure he's basing his opinion on the fact that the Red Sox still have a playoff caliber record, with the most significant injuries in baseball.

Driven
10-02-2010, 05:00 PM
As I'm watching the Yankees vs. Boston game McCarver goes in to how he believes Francona is the manager of the year...


I am not really sure what is making him think this but I thought some of you would find this pretty interesting.



I guess Tim doesn't believe that Ron Washington, Ron Gardenhire, Girardi or Joe Maddon are deserving enough.
People actually think Washington and Girardi should be AL Manager of the year?

J4KOP99
10-02-2010, 05:05 PM
People actually think Washington and Girardi should be AL Manager of the year?

I personally think it should be gardenhire but usually the Manager of the year goes to a manager who's team is in the playoffs. Rarely is it ever given to a team that finishes outside of the playoffs, but it has happened here and there.

Pride
10-02-2010, 05:11 PM
It's been a while since McCarver didn't make himself look as stupid. Francona has definitely done a great this year, but I still think Gardi takes it. And Girardi is is probably the worst manager when it comes to bullpen management.

Burkey3472
10-02-2010, 05:18 PM
He's done pretty well this season with his whole team getting injured. He deserve to be in the conversation but doubt he wins it.

Gigantes4Life
10-02-2010, 05:20 PM
It's obviously Ozzie Guillen.

NYY09
10-02-2010, 05:25 PM
You mean people actually watch a Fox game not muted? :speechless:

Driven
10-02-2010, 05:34 PM
It's obviously Ozzie Guillen.
Not sure how I forgot about him.

MelanconMadness
10-02-2010, 07:10 PM
first off, im a Yankee fan. So I hate the red sox, and mccarver/buck. But I think this is the first time ive ever agreed with mccarver. Francona is obviously the manager of the year. When you look at the Rays roster, they have had no severe injuries, if any at all, all season. The Yankees, well the payroll deserves praise, not Girardi. The Twins have a good roster, and are always there, though have had to deal without Morneau for most of the season. Washington is the only other possiblity as this is the first season they have made the playoffs in 11 years. But with all the players the Angels lost, is it really surprising they have made the playoffs? Francona has managed not the Red Sox, but the Pautucket Sox for about 130 games, and still were in playoff talks (though unlikely) as late as last weekend. Now thats incredible. Cito Gaston is another candidate

J4KOP99
10-02-2010, 08:41 PM
first off, im a Yankee fan. So I hate the red sox, and mccarver/buck. But I think this is the first time ive ever agreed with mccarver. Francona is obviously the manager of the year. When you look at the Rays roster, they have had no severe injuries, if any at all, all season. The Yankees, well the payroll deserves praise, not Girardi. The Twins have a good roster, and are always there, though have had to deal without Morneau for most of the season. Washington is the only other possiblity as this is the first season they have made the playoffs in 11 years. But with all the players the Angels lost, is it really surprising they have made the playoffs? Francona has managed not the Red Sox, but the Pautucket Sox for about 130 games, and still were in playoff talks (though unlikely) as late as last weekend. Now thats incredible. Cito Gaston is another candidate

Seems like a weak explanation of why Gardenhire shouldn't win. Because they are always there? That's why?

Francona has done a nice job but I still think that when a coach has done an equally good job (washington and gardenhire) AND their team makes the playoffs... that coach should win or at least have the advantage.

Raidaz4Life
10-02-2010, 08:50 PM
I definitely agree this has to be Francona. Not many managers could keep a team THAT competitive with that many injuries and new players.

Celtic AL
10-02-2010, 08:58 PM
i dont get this thread

Celtic AL
10-02-2010, 09:13 PM
I personally think it should be gardenhire but usually the Manager of the year goes to a manager who's team is in the playoffs. Rarely is it ever given to a team that finishes outside of the playoffs, but it has happened here and there.

funny your sig describes that your a yankee fan & you dont like Tim McCarvers idea ofTerry Francona winning the AL Manager of the Year.


dude Terry Francona has to be atlest in the running! just like Joe Madden & Ron washington! as for joe girardi he dont count becuase he manages the yankees and they allways win

More-Than-Most
10-02-2010, 09:15 PM
If Francona wins it because of this then Manuel from the Phillies should get the NL hands down considering they had the most injuries in the NL and now have the best record in the Majors. It cant be francona.

Celtic AL
10-02-2010, 09:20 PM
If Francona wins it because of this then Manuel from the Phillies should get the NL hands down considering they had the most injuries in the NL and now have the best record in the Majors. It cant be francona.

you dont get it! its about the fight in the team even if his team is not in the playoffs but they finish strong

samevans7
10-02-2010, 09:27 PM
Francona should come in either 1st of 2nd

Boston has a better record than Texas, and the Sox have played NYY and TB 34 as of Oct 2 at 9:20 EST, and won only 14.

Boston's record would be much better if in the AL West, and thats with the Sox playing with a depleted team

Should be Francona for Manager of the Year, but i can see if they went with gardenhire, but noone else

Broadwayjoe NY
10-02-2010, 10:18 PM
Give me a break. Injuries happen, it's part of the game. How quickly people forget the yankees of 2008...was girardi considered for manager of the year with an 89-73 record??

They lost Chien-Ming Wang after he started 8-2 and winning 19 games his previous two years...(don't think that extra 7 or 8 games would have helped them make the playoffs)

Jorge Posada was put on the DL for the first time in his career with a torn rotator cuff and miss 100+ games...but don't worry, we had Jose Molina and Chad Moehler make up for the time.

Matsui, a big part in the lineup, missed 70 games on the DL.

Arod and Damon missed 20+ games and had a few stints on the DL.

Jeter missed a dozen games.

Phile hughes, Ian Kennedy, JOba and Brian Brueny all missed significant time due to injuries and struggled when they returned only to be sent back to the minors.

Instead, the Yankees rotation at the end of the season included; Sidney Ponson, Darrell Rasner and Carl Pavano (for the first time in god knows when).

They played significant time with Wilson Betemit, Cody Ransom and other AAA players.



Now people are going to say due to their payroll it shouldn't matter, they should still have won the division etc. And I'm not taking anything away from what the Sox did this year, they gutted it out after losing some very very talented players. However, they had players like Beltre, Papi and their amazing pitching staff step up.

I would rather lose a key component in my lineup than have 3/5 of your rotation go down with injuries. (yes that is the yankees fault for relying on rookies and a 40 yo pitcher in Moose).


It's just I don't understand how Tito can be considered for manager of the year when Girardi was crucified for missing the playoffs back in '08.

JCmasta
10-02-2010, 10:30 PM
It has to be Washington, managing a bankrupt team and overcoming all that he has this season. Leading the team to the playoffs for the first time since '99 has to earn him some points too.

bagwell368
10-02-2010, 10:37 PM
He's done pretty well this season with his whole team getting injured. He deserve to be in the conversation but doubt he wins it.

I'm forced to agree.

There is only a certain amount of respect give to a guy that had terrible seasons from: Beckett, Dice, Wakefield, MDC, Oki, and Ramirez...

Only a small amount for a guy that lost GG/All Star Youk, GG/All Star/MVP Pedroia, VMart, Ellsbury, Hermida, Cameron, Tek, Lowrie for significant stretches of time...

If he finishes worst then 2nd it will a joke.

BigEasy1323
10-02-2010, 10:37 PM
Considering the names and reasons being thrown around then why not Cito Gaston? A lot of experts picked the Jays to finish last in the AL East and win in the 70-75 range. He has a young team playing well over their heads in the toughest division in baseball.

I do not think Cito will win (or Francona, Maddon, Girardi either). I believe Ron Gardenhire will get the nod over Ron Washington because how well the Twins have played with Morneau out of the lineup (battling for home field advantage). I am not a huge Wahington fan either considering the whole cocaine situation lol.

You never know what the so called experts are going to do with their vote so I guess anyone can win

eXpLiiCt
10-02-2010, 10:42 PM
... omg do you guys not Understand there team was all hurt thats why he's saying this...

ZioAx
10-02-2010, 10:44 PM
He should win it, amazing manager.

LeBitteNoir
10-02-2010, 10:47 PM
Let's not forget, the guy in Pittsburgh deserves to be mentioned in the conversation, too.

J4KOP99
10-02-2010, 10:56 PM
I definitely agree this has to be Francona. Not many managers could keep a team THAT competitive with that many injuries and new players.

Their pitching was incredible. They had a few big injuries in their line-up but there pitching was still great.


I think some boston fans are purposely underrating their roster so people start to feel bad for them. What happened to Boston happened to the Yankees back in 2008 except the Yankees lost more pitching than hitting... either way, nobody was nominating Girardi for Manager of the year.

North Country
10-02-2010, 11:00 PM
What Francona's done with all the injuries to the Red Sox has been pretty special. I think both him and Gardenhire would be deserving winners of the award.

J4KOP99
10-02-2010, 11:02 PM
funny your sig describes that your a yankee fan & you dont like Tim McCarvers idea ofTerry Francona winning the AL Manager of the Year.


dude Terry Francona has to be atlest in the running! just like Joe Madden & Ron washington! as for joe girardi he dont count becuase he manages the yankees and they allways win

I'm not even going to argue because I don't think Girardi deserves it over Gardenhire but that excuse is pathetic.

Me being a Yankee fan has absolutely nothing to do with me also thinking that Terry francona does not deserve to win AL Manager of the year. If a manager is going to win MOTY and not make the playoffs they have to do something incredibly unexpected... like what the Marlins did a few years ago.

bagwell368
10-02-2010, 11:05 PM
Their pitching was incredible. They had a few big injuries in their line-up but there pitching was still great.


I think some boston fans are purposely underrating their roster so people start to feel bad for them. What happened to Boston happened to the Yankees back in 2008 except the Yankees lost more pitching than hitting... either way, nobody was nominating Girardi for Manager of the year.

WTH?

They had 3 pitchers that had big years: Lester, Buccholz, Bard; and one that was OK (but the worst year of his career) Paps. The rest were below average, or really awful.

We did not have a few big injuries, we had a lot of them.

8 starters:

Youk
Pedroia
VMart
Ellsbury
Cameron
Beckett (missed about 1/3 of the season on the DL)
Dice (alse missed much of the seaons)
Buchholz missed 4 starts

4 bench guys:

Lowell
Hermida
Tek
Lowrie

bagwell368
10-02-2010, 11:06 PM
Let's not forget, the guy in Pittsburgh deserves to be mentioned in the conversation, too.

But not for the AL Manager of the Year...

oak2455
10-02-2010, 11:10 PM
I think Timmy was drunk:speechless:

ShinobiNYC
10-02-2010, 11:18 PM
the 2006 Yankees say hi. Joe Torre not winning it that year is nothing short of inexcusable.

J4KOP99
10-02-2010, 11:21 PM
WTH?

They had 3 pitchers that had big years: Lester, Buccholz, Bard; and one that was OK (but the worst year of his career) Paps. The rest were below average, or really awful.

We did not have a few big injuries, we had a lot of them.

8 starters:

Youk
Pedroia
VMart
Ellsbury
Cameron
Beckett (missed about 1/3 of the season on the DL)
Dice (alse missed much of the seaons)
Buchholz missed 4 starts

4 bench guys:

Lowell
Hermida
Tek
Lowrie

This is what Im thinking about though...

Last year, when the Red Sox had a much healthier year, they finished with 95 wins. Currently they are at 87 I believe. In '08, once again a much healthier year than now, they finished with 95.

This year though, they will finish with anywhere from 87-89 wins. That is only, 6,7 or 8 wins less than the last two years where they were close to complete health.(I mean every team has injuries every year, thats something you have to deal with. That's obvious)

With the injuries you listed above... how on earth is this Francona's doing? So is he a ****** manager these past couple seasons cause he could only get 95 wins? With all these players you're naming, the point you are making is that they would normally be doing a lot better... well how is that so? If we we're guessing, by that logic, we could assume the Sox would win like... 105 games? I mean, the players you named are most of the key guys right?

My point is that this season, people stepped up in certain situations. Francona was just doing what he normally does. If he wins Manager of the year this year, he should have been proclaimed the worst manager of the year these past two years if he only won 95 games.


The Sox did much better than people thought they would, considering the circumstances... but I don't believe Francona had THAT much to do with it.

GrkGawdofWalkz
10-02-2010, 11:24 PM
It's obviously Ozzie Guillen.

Sarcasm at it's finest. Ozzie Guillen did nothing this year.

More-Than-Most
10-02-2010, 11:33 PM
WTH?

They had 3 pitchers that had big years: Lester, Buccholz, Bard; and one that was OK (but the worst year of his career) Paps. The rest were below average, or really awful.

We did not have a few big injuries, we had a lot of them.

8 starters:

Youk
Pedroia
VMart
Ellsbury
Cameron
Beckett (missed about 1/3 of the season on the DL)
Dice (alse missed much of the seaons)
Buchholz missed 4 starts

4 bench guys:

Lowell
Hermida
Tek
Lowrie

Wow... I thought you guys had more than that. I guess the Phillies have had the most injuries this season. Manuel wont win it so now way francona should.

ZioAx
10-02-2010, 11:38 PM
Wow... I thought you guys had more than that. I guess the Phillies have had the most injuries this season. Manuel wont win it so now way francona should.

Feel free to list more than 12 Philly players and a few that missed the entire 2nd half of the season.

Sox were far more devastated.

More-Than-Most
10-02-2010, 11:51 PM
Feel free to list more than 12 Philly players and a few that missed the entire 2nd half of the season.

Sox were far more devastated.

I can list more than 12. we have 17 different players and 20 total members of our team reaching the disabled list including 7 of our 8 position players.

Rollins{DL several times}
Victorino{DL}
Utley{2 months}
Howard{1 month}
Ibanez{DL}
Ruiz{DL}
Polanco{DL plus missing games here and there with elbow issues}

Pitchers
Romero{Missed a while}
Durbin{DL}
Madson{2 months}
Lidge{DL}
Moyer{Half a season}
Happ{Half a season}
Blanton{Entered season injured}

Bench Players

Shiender{DL}
Gload{DL}

I think this is a pretty close list. Enjoy and look it up if you want proof



All these injuries and we have the best record in the Majors at 30 something games over 500... We had our starting day lineup in a total of like 5 times... All this and Manuel wont get the Manager of the year so no way francona should.

North Country
10-02-2010, 11:58 PM
I can list more than 12. we have 17 different players and 20 total members of our team reaching the disabled list including 7 of our 8 position players.

Rollins{DL several times}
Victorino{DL}
Utley{2 months}
Howard{1 month}
Ibanez{DL}
Ruiz{DL}
Polanco{DL plus missing games here and there with elbow issues}

Pitchers
Romero{Missed a while}
Durbin{DL}
Madson{2 months}
Lidge{DL}
Moyer{Half a season}
Happ{Half a season}
Blanton{Entered season injured}

Bench Players

Shiender{DL}
Gload{DL}

I think this is a pretty close list. Enjoy and look it up if you want proof



All these injuries and we have the best record in the Majors at 30 something games over 500... We had our starting day lineup in a total of like 5 times... All this and Manuel wont get the Manager of the year so no way francona should.

I don't think that really compares to the injuries the Red Sox went through.

More-Than-Most
10-03-2010, 12:00 AM
I don't think that really compares to the injuries the Red Sox went through.

Lmfao... Thats 7 of our 8 starting position players... 3 of our 5 starting pitchers our 2 bench guys and our 7th-8th-9th inning bull pen arms and our lefty specialist. Lmfao what more is there???

ZioAx
10-03-2010, 12:02 AM
I can list more than 12. we have 17 different players and 20 total members of our team reaching the disabled list including 7 of our 8 position players.

Rollins{DL several times}
Victorino{DL}
Utley{2 months}
Howard{1 month}
Ibanez{DL}
Ruiz{DL}
Polanco{DL plus missing games here and there with elbow issues}

Pitchers
Romero{Missed a while}
Durbin{DL}
Madson{2 months}
Lidge{DL}
Moyer{Half a season}
Happ{Half a season}
Blanton{Entered season injured}

Bench Players

Shiender{DL}
Gload{DL}

I think this is a pretty close list. Enjoy and look it up if you want proof



All these injuries and we have the best record in the Majors at 30 something games over 500... We had our starting day lineup in a total of like 5 times... All this and Manuel wont get the Manager of the year so no way francona should.

Oh I didn't realize you were going to list every single team move. I guess we should have included DL stints made to make room.

Youkilis and Pedroia missed virtually the entire 2nd half. We didn't have our opening day lineup ONCE after the first week.

Our OF consisted of AA 'scrubs' for the majority of the season. Cameron was injured and Ellsbury was a lost cause.

Sox had more major injuries to key players.

ZioAx
10-03-2010, 12:06 AM
Wow... I thought you guys had more than that. I guess the Phillies have had the most injuries this season. Manuel wont win it so now way francona should.

Manuel's team sucked, Tito almost got his team into the playoffs.

More-Than-Most
10-03-2010, 12:15 AM
Manuel's team sucked, Tito almost got his team into the playoffs.

:confused:

Lol what

North Country
10-03-2010, 12:25 AM
Lmfao... Thats 7 of our 8 starting position players... 3 of our 5 starting pitchers our 2 bench guys and our 7th-8th-9th inning bull pen arms and our lefty specialist. Lmfao what more is there???

It's not so much the amount of players the Red Sox lost to injury, but the quality of the players and the length of time for which they lost them. The Red Sox definitely had it worse this year injury wise.

The top 3 pitchers for the Phillies were all healthy. The Red Sox lost Beckett for almost half the season.

The Phillies had a lot of 15 day DL stints for their regulars. The Red Sox were without 4 or 5 of their starting position players at a time for most of the year.

Wisdom Listens
10-03-2010, 02:46 AM
Boston's injuries have been brutal, no doubt, but I think Gardenhire deserves the nod this year. I mean it's not like the Twins haven't had to deal with their own injuries (Nathan/Morneau).

samevans7
10-03-2010, 07:59 AM
Game of People who had to miss games this year: Boston v. Philadelphia

Boston:
LF: Jacoby Ellsbury
CF: Mike Cameron
RF: JD Drew
3B: Adrian Beltre
SS: Marco Scutaro
2B: Dustin Pedroia
1B: Kevin Youkilis
C: Victor Martinez
DH: Mike Lowell

Bench: OF Jeremy Hermida, C Jason Varitek, C Jarrod Saltalamaccia, IF Jed Lowrie, C Kevin Cash, OF/2B Eric Patterson

Starting Pitchers: Clay Buchholz, Josh Beckett, Daisuke Matsuzaka
Relief Pitchers: Boof Bonser, Junichi Tasawa, Manny Delcarmen, Hideki Okajima

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/teams/boston-red-sox/injuries.html


Phillies:
LF: Ross Gload
CF: Shane Victorino
RF: Domonic Brown
3B: Placido Polanco
SS: Jimmy Rollins
2B: Chase Utley
1B: Ryan Howard
C: Brian Schneider

Bench: C Carlos Ruiz, SS Wilson Valdez

Starting Pitchers: Joe Blanton, Jaime Moyer, J.A. Happ
Relief Pitchers: Brad Lidge, Ryan Madson, J.C. Romero, Antonio Basterdo, Chad Durbin, Danny Baez, Scott Mathieson

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/teams/philadelphia-phillies/injuries.html

Now tell me, which "All-Injured" team would win here? Boston, and pretty easily

todu82
10-03-2010, 08:18 AM
Ron Washington wins this award for me.

JWalk126
10-03-2010, 08:56 AM
:confused:

Lol what

I think he is confusing Manuels.

goshhhjosh
10-03-2010, 09:12 AM
This is what Im thinking about though...

Last year, when the Red Sox had a much healthier year, they finished with 95 wins. Currently they are at 87 I believe. In '08, once again a much healthier year than now, they finished with 95.

This year though, they will finish with anywhere from 87-89 wins. That is only, 6,7 or 8 wins less than the last two years where they were close to complete health.(I mean every team has injuries every year, thats something you have to deal with. That's obvious)

With the injuries you listed above... how on earth is this Francona's doing? So is he a ****** manager these past couple seasons cause he could only get 95 wins? With all these players you're naming, the point you are making is that they would normally be doing a lot better... well how is that so? If we we're guessing, by that logic, we could assume the Sox would win like... 105 games? I mean, the players you named are most of the key guys right?

My point is that this season, people stepped up in certain situations. Francona was just doing what he normally does. If he wins Manager of the year this year, he should have been proclaimed the worst manager of the year these past two years if he only won 95 games.


The Sox did much better than people thought they would, considering the circumstances... but I don't believe Francona had THAT much to do with it.

Where the counter argument comes in is the fact that despite losing all of these players to injury the Red Sox were able to come close to their desired goal of winning around 95 games a year.

Theo Epstein stated that the goal of the team is, "win around 95 games a year and make it to the playoffs."

I think you are skewing peoples statements. The point that people are trying to make is that Francona was able to do this well and win the 80-something games despite injuries which shows the character of the team as well as the managing. So to only come up 7 or so games behind where we normally do is a testament to the team/Francona.

I'm not going to sit here and say that you're complaining because you're a Yankees fan as I really don't know your motives for creating this thread. I'm just trying to show you where the other people are coming from.

The second bolded statement is just an opinion. How do you know that he didn't have a lot to do with it? It's hard to tell. One thing is certain he got his team to play and stay in the race as long as possible.

Also, I believe it was you who made the statement that if Francona wins the MOTY this year then under this criteria Girardi should have won it back in 2008. The Yankees not making the playoffs is a bigger story than the Red Sox not making the playoffs. From 1996-present the Yankees have only missed the playoffs once - 2008. The Yankees play in a media hotbed in New York and that was Girardi's first year and they had just gotten rid of Joe Torre...so of course they were ready to crucify him.

saintdrew
10-03-2010, 09:56 AM
As I'm watching the Yankees vs. Boston game McCarver goes in to how he believes Francona is the manager of the year...


I am not really sure what is making him think this but I thought some of you would find this pretty interesting.



I guess Tim doesn't believe that Ron Washington, Ron Gardenhire, Girardi or Joe Maddon are deserving enough.

I'm sure you're completely taking his comment out of context.

ZioAx
10-03-2010, 10:46 AM
:confused:

Lol what

I got the Mets Manuel on the brain.

Save Mattingly
10-03-2010, 01:34 PM
Francona did a great job with the injuries and young players mixed into his roster. Too bad he didn't have his team ready to play when the season started. They were healthy and came out of the gates laying an egg. Other teams have been good from wire to wire. Francona does not deserve the award.


My vote goes to Maddon, 12 games over .500 on the road is impressive and takes getting the most out of your players.

bosox3431
10-04-2010, 12:15 AM
Francona did a great job with the injuries and young players mixed into his roster. Too bad he didn't have his team ready to play when the season started. They were healthy and came out of the gates laying an egg. Other teams have been good from wire to wire. Francona does not deserve the award.


My vote goes to Maddon, 12 games over .500 on the road is impressive and takes getting the most out of your players.

Everey team goes through times when they struggle. Bostons just happened to at the beginning of the season, which makes it more noticable. Every other team that their manager could possibly win, all had atleast one month which they were below 500.

Halladay
10-04-2010, 12:20 AM
And if it weren't the RedSox there probably wouldn't even be any mention of this.

Jack_Bauer
10-04-2010, 03:48 AM
Just another bit of wisdom spewing from Tim McCarver's word hole. Him and Buck need to be put out of their misery.

Pinstripe pride
10-04-2010, 08:52 AM
i agree. he did the best job of any managaer i saw in the AL this year. that being said, i doubt he wins. washingotn probally undeservingly will

Double_R
10-04-2010, 09:27 AM
Where the counter argument comes in is the fact that despite losing all of these players to injury the Red Sox were able to come close to their desired goal of winning around 95 games a year.

Theo Epstein stated that the goal of the team is, "win around 95 games a year and make it to the playoffs."

I think you are skewing peoples statements. The point that people are trying to make is that Francona was able to do this well and win the 80-something games despite injuries which shows the character of the team as well as the managing. So to only come up 7 or so games behind where we normally do is a testament to the team/Francona.

I'm not going to sit here and say that you're complaining because you're a Yankees fan as I really don't know your motives for creating this thread. I'm just trying to show you where the other people are coming from.

The second bolded statement is just an opinion. How do you know that he didn't have a lot to do with it? It's hard to tell. One thing is certain he got his team to play and stay in the race as long as possible.

Also, I believe it was you who made the statement that if Francona wins the MOTY this year then under this criteria Girardi should have won it back in 2008. The Yankees not making the playoffs is a bigger story than the Red Sox not making the playoffs. From 1996-present the Yankees have only missed the playoffs once - 2008. The Yankees play in a media hotbed in New York and that was Girardi's first year and they had just gotten rid of Joe Torre...so of course they were ready to crucify him.

At the end of the day, he didn't bring his team to the playoffs and that is what matters when you have the second highest payroll in the league... The Red Sox have exactly 100 million more dollars invested in winning than their divisional opponent the Blue Jays and yet only managed 4 more wins; so if those 4 more wins were worth $25 mil a piece then I guess he did a great job. They also have a $107 million more than the Rangers and $65 million more than the Twins. Hell, they even have a $90 mil advantage over the Rays and had 7 more losses, so forget about the injuries, every team has them and not every team has the payroll the Red Sox do, so they should be able to overcome the injuries with that kind of investment. If they lost a $100 Million in players to injuries then I guess he did a good job, otherwise I don't want to hear anything about injuries with that kind of payroll.

laxtonto
10-04-2010, 11:25 AM
Washington will win this in a landslide. Combine the BR problems with Hamilton missing almost a month of the season and the feel good Rangers will sweep the awards.

As far as the Francona statements go, explain to how he gets the benefit of the doubt with the Sox winning less games than the Rangers with a payroll that is almost triple what the Rangers played with? For a team projected to win around 95 games it was nice to see the Sox almost break 90 with the injuries they had, but to say that he deserves the manager of the year is a complete stretch.

bagwell368
10-04-2010, 11:36 AM
Washington will win this in a landslide. Combine the BR problems with Hamilton missing almost a month of the season and the feel good Rangers will sweep the awards.

As far as the Francona statements go, explain to how he gets the benefit of the doubt with the Sox winning less games than the Rangers with a payroll that is almost triple what the Rangers played with? For a team projected to win around 95 games it was nice to see the Sox almost break 90 with the injuries they had, but to say that he deserves the manager of the year is a complete stretch.

As I wrote earlier I see Francona getting 2nd or 3rd. But all you have to do is restore Youk and Pedroia to full health for the season, have Wakefield and Beckett live up to prior 3 year averages, and then the FO makes a deal for a good reliever, and obviously the parade of AAA players would be far less and guess what? It's a 100 win team per runs scored/allowed. Think he wins then? With his starting CF and LF missing the bulk of the year? Both catchers on the DL at times? An ineffective bullpen? Hell yes.

BLooDShoT_GrK
10-04-2010, 11:37 AM
And Tim McCarver just proves again why him and Joe Buck are the 2 biggest Douche bags around....thank god the ALCS is on TBS this year and I dont have to hear their nonsense...who was his pick for NL manager of the year??? Jerry Manuel....Tito is good but Washington needs to be recognized for what hes done with Texas

Save Mattingly
10-04-2010, 02:42 PM
Everey team goes through times when they struggle. Bostons just happened to at the beginning of the season, which makes it more noticable. Every other team that their manager could possibly win, all had atleast one month which they were below 500.

That's fair, but then it would also make the fact other teams had important players get injured factor in too.
The twins lost their closer and allstar first baseman for significant time. Their allstar catcher was banged up most of the season and that's just the highlight injuries.
The yankees lost significant time from arod, posada, pettitte, granderson, gardner and swisher.
The rangers without hamilton, any type of healthy catcher and their starting closer.

The sox didn't suffer injury all alone and their injuries alone don't warrant an award.

CampShocker
10-04-2010, 02:53 PM
I think Tim McCarver said that Terry Francona is the LEAST deserving of the award. Boston was easily one of the biggest disappointments of the year! Everybody talks about managing through injuries, but other managers whose teams actually did succeed were capable: Twins lost Morneau & Nathan for the season (still won 94 games), Texas lost the 2010 AL MVP for the final month (still won their division).. Washington and Gardy are the two MOST deserving.
Buck Showalter will receive more votes than Francona, and he only coached the final few weeks of the season.

Rivera
10-04-2010, 03:04 PM
tito should win the award

boston hasnt had their opening day lineup on the field....well since opening day!!!!!

our outfield this year consisted of daniel nava/billy hall/ryan kalish/jermy hermedia/eric patterson/darnell mcdonald/ and JD Drew

youk got hurt in august and missed time for our final playoff push

petey was pretty much out the whole year...sames goes for jacoby

tito has done a remarkable job and every red sox fan should agree with me.....the red sox should be in the playoffs regardless

as much as injuries had played a part its a nice excuse but boston has a record under .500 against the royals/indians/mariners/and baltimore oriles combined

add that to the fact that our bullpen was horrible this yr (our only real reliable guy was bard no sox fan trusted PAP this yr) add to the fact that lackey had a horrendous yr and beckett just isnt josh beckett of 07 this is the real reason y the sox are not in the playoffs....not bc of injuries and not because of our offense.....the bullpen beckett/lackey and are record aganst horrible teams

baseballguy247
10-04-2010, 03:17 PM
Terry has done a great job.

papipapsmanny
10-04-2010, 04:33 PM
I think Tim McCarver said that Terry Francona is the LEAST deserving of the award. Boston was easily one of the biggest disappointments of the year! Everybody talks about managing through injuries, but other managers whose teams actually did succeed were capable: Twins lost Morneau & Nathan for the season (still won 94 games), Texas lost the 2010 AL MVP for the final month (still won their division).. Washington and Gardy are the two MOST deserving.
Buck Showalter will receive more votes than Francona, and he only coached the final few weeks of the season.

Youkilis would probably be in the MVP discussion if he didn't miss 40% of the season.

Pedroia missed nearly 60% of the season. O and at the pace both would have been around 6-7 WAR players according to Fangraphs.

Beckett missed half the season. You can say he sucked but stats say he was extremely unlucky over the course over the whole season he would have regressed to his normal numbers or at least close to them.

And to add salt to the wound of all these injuries. V-Mart, Buchholz, Pedroia, and Varitek all went on the DL at the exact same time. Lowrie a very nice backup was injured for about the whole season until the last part of the season making the pedroia injury suck worse.

This isn't to mention that ellsbury and Cameron were out the whole year.

Cameron averaged around 4 WAR per year and Ellsbury 3 WAR.

With the injuries you figure you lost around between 12 WAR and 18 WAR combined out of all the players that went down. That is extremely significant.

Thats not an excuse its a fact. And the only real injuries you could have anticapted were Cameron because of age, matsuzaka because he is prone to it

Completely healthy I believe they win 100 games maybe more. Normal Injuries I think they would win the division.

But there was some good. Kalish looks like a nice CF, lowrie looks excellest for a middle infielder, and doubront looks like a serviceable pitcher.

Cant wait until this offseason, and next year.


Francona deserves to be in the discussion. I think its between him and Gardenhire

yankswin27
10-04-2010, 04:42 PM
I'd consider Francona as well. How in the world did he manage to get 89 wins out of that team?

It should be between him and Gardenhire. No Ron Washington.

Steelers>NFL
10-05-2010, 10:13 AM
Francona or Gardenhire.

No way Girardi deserves it!!!