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JordansBulls
09-29-2010, 05:12 PM
Do you believe Dwight Howard will win League MVP in his career?


For reference here are some great centers other the the 3 marquee Centers in Russell (5 MVP's), Kareem (6 MVP's and Wilt (4 MVP's) that have won MVP's.


Moses Malone - 3 MVP's
Hakeem - 1 MVP
Shaq - 1 MVP
Robinson - 1 MVP
Walton - 1 MVP
Ewing - 0 MVP
Mourning - 0 MVP



Do you think Dwight will actually win a League MVP sometime in his career?

THE MTL
09-29-2010, 05:18 PM
Dwight Howard certainly is an MVP candidate, but I dont know if he should be winning an MVP award when guys like Ewing hasvent won any or guys like Shaq/Hakeem only won it once. Howard isnt on their level.

jimbobjarree
09-29-2010, 05:20 PM
doubt it, he'll get plenty of DPOYs, and rightly so. I dont see him developing that MVP type offensive game though

Hawkeye15
09-29-2010, 05:22 PM
I don't think so. He just doesn't have the dominant offensive game to challenge some of the guys ahead of him, and with the DPOY award out there, many voters will simply give him that and move on

The Prodigy
09-29-2010, 05:24 PM
There is a small chance but Im going to have to say no. Theres to many skilled guards and fowards for him to have a chance to win it. As long as players like Lebron, Wade, Durant, Kobe, Mello, CP3, and Williams in the league he will have a hard time. And with players like Tyreke Evans, Curry, Jennings, Wall and other young stars expected to make there case in a few years theres an even slighter chance to for him to get it. The only way he could get the award is if he ever averages around 25 ppg and maintaining his rebounding and blocking while leading his team to a first or second seed. I just don't see him having a stat line of 25ppg 14rpg and 3bpg.

Tony_Starks
09-29-2010, 05:28 PM
I think so on the strength of MVP has turned into "best player on the team with the best record." I can see Orlando putting up the best record as Lakers and Boston start coasting through the season.

If he can put up some better offensive numbers he can snag one, especially if Bron Bron scales it back a bit in Miami.......

Kevj77
09-29-2010, 05:33 PM
Not unless he developes a post game. I heard he did workout with The Dream over the summer so maybe he is working on his moves.

godolphins
09-29-2010, 05:34 PM
Do you believe Dwight Howard will win League MVP in his career?


For reference here are some great centers other the the 3 marquee Centers in Russell (5 MVP's), Kareem (6 MVP's and Wilt (4 MVP's) that have won MVP's.


Moses Malone - 3 MVP's
Hakeem - 1 MVP
Shaq - 1 MVP
Robinson - 1 MVP
Walton - 1 MVP
Ewing - 0 MVP
Mourning - 0 MVP



Do you think Dwight will actually win a League MVP sometime in his career?

Please don't tell me that you think Dwight Howard is a great center

ShaqShoes
09-29-2010, 05:35 PM
If it's not Durant, Kobe, Wade, CP3, or LeBron, then it's Dwight.

SteveNash
09-29-2010, 05:39 PM
Well Dwight's a top 5 center all time so I'd guess he'd have to win one right?

Tony_Starks
09-29-2010, 05:41 PM
If it's not Durant, Kobe, Wade, CP3, or LeBron, then it's Dwight.



I think its between him, Kobe, and Lebron or Wade. Durant and CP3 won't have enough W's to justify it........

SA5195
09-29-2010, 05:44 PM
I really don't see it happening.

jackdawson
09-29-2010, 05:47 PM
****!!! I meant to vote NO. Hawk/JB, please change my vote if possible.

I don't see him winning it because his offensive game is way too poor and there are too many possible candidates that will have better shots than him. Dwight is a terrific defensive force but at times he can't even stay on the court in crucial moments of 4th quarter (foul trouble). To be a legit MVP candidate, I believe you have to be able to take over games with your offense when needed.

JARVIS123
09-29-2010, 05:49 PM
I think so.the magic need to hook him up with a dominant guard like shaq had his whole career.Kobe never knew what a mvp was while playing with shaq.

jackdawson
09-29-2010, 05:52 PM
Well Dwight's a top 5 center all time so I'd guess he'd have to win one right?

aha, sounds very familiar. Someone claimed it throughout the entire last season and I had a legendary sig with his comment on Dwight (thanks to him;)) but sadly, I had to take that off to put my current sig in place.

Rivera
09-29-2010, 05:52 PM
one day he will have 1 MVP to his name........there is going to be a year where orlando has the best record in the league n he will b the best player in the league

hes already been on the MVP watch and has recieved top 5 votes in the past...there will be 1 day his offensive game improves just enough to average 24 or 25 ppg with abt 13 -15 rpg and 3 blocks.......one day!!

SteveNash
09-29-2010, 05:53 PM
I think so.the magic need to hook him up with a dominant guard like shaq had his whole career.Kobe never knew what a mvp was while playing with shaq.

Vince Carter

nycericanguy
09-29-2010, 05:58 PM
one day he will have 1 MVP to his name........there is going to be a year where orlando has the best record in the league n he will b the best player in the league

hes already been on the MVP watch and has recieved top 5 votes in the past...there will be 1 day his offensive game improves just enough to average 24 or 25 ppg with abt 13 -15 rpg and 3 blocks.......one day!!

^ this, he's still young & can improve and I can def see him putting together a 25ppg 14rpg 3bpg season.

Also consider Kobe's age, & Lebron & Wade being on the same team might make it harder for them to win MVP's. You can make an argument that he actually has a decent chance to win it next year.

Geargo Wallace
09-29-2010, 06:03 PM
If he wins a ship YES. That always helps you the next year.

streetballa
09-29-2010, 06:04 PM
If he ever averages 75% FT then he might be able to but since I do not see that happening I vote no

nycericanguy
09-29-2010, 06:06 PM
Vince Carter

off topic but dude how many sigbets have you lost?...

Tony_Starks
09-29-2010, 06:09 PM
one day he will have 1 MVP to his name........there is going to be a year where orlando has the best record in the league n he will b the best player in the league

hes already been on the MVP watch and has recieved top 5 votes in the past...there will be 1 day his offensive game improves just enough to average 24 or 25 ppg with abt 13 -15 rpg and 3 blocks.......one day!!



Word to big bird!!

MagicBucsSox
09-29-2010, 06:10 PM
I don't think so. He just doesn't have the dominant offensive game to challenge some of the guys ahead of him, and with the DPOY award out there, many voters will simply give him that and move on

its bs cause while ppl insult him for his offensive game he still can avg 20 now. and none of the other top players are close to his defensive game. bill russell won mvp's playing the same way, itjust goes to show we're in a espn highlight reel era

ShaqShoes
09-29-2010, 06:17 PM
Vince Carter

:eyebrow:

JARVIS123
09-29-2010, 06:19 PM
Vince Carter

Vince is not the same vince that we know.

Bishnoff
09-29-2010, 06:27 PM
I can't see it happening. He'd have to improve a few areas of his game to have a chance.

GSW Hoops
09-29-2010, 06:29 PM
Yes. With LeBron joining two other superstars and the Lakers stacked, I think this coming season is Dwight's best chance to win MVP. But Orlando will have to put up 60+ wins.

heyman321
09-29-2010, 06:43 PM
Nope, not as long as Lebron James and Kevin Durant are in the league.

knickfan4life
09-29-2010, 06:44 PM
When Dwight develops a low post game, just some good footwork and can score 5-8 feet within the rim... he will be the most dominant player in the game... and yes, he will win not one, but even a couple of them

Bruno
09-29-2010, 06:54 PM
I want to say he'll get one. But then again, players like Kobe and Shaq only have one a piece as well. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

Rafer17
09-29-2010, 06:54 PM
Well Dwight's a top 5 center all time so I'd guess he'd have to win one right?

:facepalm:

Bravo95
09-29-2010, 07:09 PM
He'll win the MVP award at least once, but I don't know if his team will win a title.

5ass
09-29-2010, 07:10 PM
of course he should.. dwight lead the league in blocks rebounds and fg% for 2 years in a row and will probably do it again next season and the season after that.. no1 has ever lead the league in blocks rebounds and fg% for 2 years in a row let alone 4-5 years.. oh and not to mention he still puts up 20 ppg and leads his team to the ECF for 2 years in a row

TheTakeOver24
09-29-2010, 07:18 PM
Maybe, if they put a better team around him. Otis Smith is one of the worst GMs in the league IMO.

MagicBucsSox
09-29-2010, 07:18 PM
Nope, not as long as Lebron James and Kevin Durant are in the league.

lol dude this durant hype has to stop, he can score..................thats it. he sure as hell cant stop someone from scoring. :facepalm:

MagicBucsSox
09-29-2010, 07:23 PM
Maybe, if they put a better team around him. Otis Smith is one of the worst GMs in the league IMO.

lol please explain how the gm who took a sub .500 team onto a top3 team one of the worst? why cause he didnt land bosh and bron?

5ass
09-29-2010, 07:23 PM
lol dude this durant hype has to stop, he can score..................thats it. he sure as hell cant stop someone from scoring. :facepalm:

i agree.. AT THE MOMENT Howard>Durant

TheTakeOver24
09-29-2010, 07:33 PM
lol please explain how the gm who took a sub .500 team onto a top3 team one of the worst? why cause he didnt land bosh and bron?

R. Lewis, Reddick, Gortat contracts.
Disassembled a really good team: Hedo and Lee.
Still has not acquired an effective sidekick for Dwight. Someone like Vince in his prime.
Again, this is IMO...

Mplsman
09-29-2010, 07:41 PM
Needs more ppg.

heyman321
09-29-2010, 08:09 PM
lol dude this durant hype has to stop, he can score..................thats it. he sure as hell cant stop someone from scoring. :facepalm:

You're right, I shouldn't have put Durant in there. BUT, I did becuase the NBA MVPs are given out to the best scorers on good teams in recent years (aside from Nash) and OKC is bound to get better.

Let me say again: Nope not as long as Lebron James is in the league or not as long as Howard has a crappy post game and retains his inability to shoot free throws.

Hawkeye15
09-29-2010, 08:11 PM
Well Dwight's a top 5 center all time so I'd guess he'd have to win one right?

are you serious? Dwight is not a top 5 center of all time. I would be hard pressed to even give him a top 10 nod

Hawkeye15
09-29-2010, 08:12 PM
one day he will have 1 MVP to his name........there is going to be a year where orlando has the best record in the league n he will b the best player in the league

hes already been on the MVP watch and has recieved top 5 votes in the past...there will be 1 day his offensive game improves just enough to average 24 or 25 ppg with abt 13 -15 rpg and 3 blocks.......one day!!

IF he develops an offensive game, or raises his free throw efficiency, he could contend for MVP. I agree with you. I do think Rashard Lewis's deal will kill them in a couple years when trying to add help

IversonIsKrazy
09-29-2010, 08:13 PM
He'll always be a candidate, but not sure if he'll ever actually win one. I can only see him winning one if his team ended up being the team with the best record in the league.

Hawkeye15
09-29-2010, 08:16 PM
its bs cause while ppl insult him for his offensive game he still can avg 20 now. and none of the other top players are close to his defensive game. bill russell won mvp's playing the same way, itjust goes to show we're in a espn highlight reel era

in Russell's era, there were not the dominant 2 way players like now, at least in pure number. The C's also won like 11 rings and I don't think the Magic have the firepower to be the top team every year.
He lives off the hook shot in the middle, offensive putbacks, and dunks. He really has minimal offensive game. His defense is great, but not so much better than anyone like LeBron, Wade, Kobe, or Durant, that his offensive shortcomings make up for it at this point.

SteveNash
09-29-2010, 09:31 PM
off topic but dude how many sigbets have you lost?...

1.


Vince is not the same vince that we know.

Vince last year against Boston played just as well as Kobe did during the 2000 Finals.

sNaKeS
09-29-2010, 09:40 PM
If he could shoot 75% from the charity stripe and develop 1 or 2 post moves he will win multiple mvp's cause he will average 25-30 ppg and 12-15 rpg with 2 or 3 blocks. He's like 23 or 24 right now, still has at least 10 years left and probably closer to 15 years.

_KB24_
09-29-2010, 09:46 PM
He certainly can with his current scenario. His offensive is only improving and he is still the best defensive player in the league by a longshot. The Magic winning the East and Dwight averaging something along the lines of 20-24 points and 13+ boards along with 2-3 blks will certainly warrant a chance.

IndiansFan337
09-29-2010, 09:54 PM
Do you believe Dwight Howard will win League MVP in his career?


For reference here are some great centers other the the 3 marquee Centers in Russell (5 MVP's), Kareem (6 MVP's and Wilt (4 MVP's) that have won MVP's.


Moses Malone - 3 MVP's
Hakeem - 1 MVP
Shaq - 1 MVP
Robinson - 1 MVP
Walton - 1 MVP
Ewing - 0 MVP
Mourning - 0 MVP



Do you think Dwight will actually win a League MVP sometime in his career?

No. I think it will be dominated by swingmen and PG's for the next decade or so. I can see LeBron and Durant certainly winning some over the next decade. Other potential winners during that timeframe include Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, and Derrick Rose.

MagicBucsSox
09-29-2010, 10:07 PM
No. I think it will be dominated by swingmen and PG's for the next decade or so. I can see LeBron and Durant certainly winning some over the next decade. Other potential winners during that timeframe include Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, and Derrick Rose.

dog none of them are winning mvp esp. rose

if durant ever wins mvp over dwight ill stopwatching basketball all together

Hawkeye15
09-29-2010, 10:09 PM
dog none of them are winning mvp esp. rose

if durant ever wins mvp over dwight ill stopwatching basketball all together

please explain

MagicBucsSox
09-29-2010, 10:13 PM
in Russell's era, there were not the dominant 2 way players like now, at least in pure number. The C's also won like 11 rings and I don't think the Magic have the firepower to be the top team every year.
He lives off the hook shot in the middle, offensive putbacks, and dunks. He really has minimal offensive game. His defense is great, but not so much better than anyone like LeBron, Wade, Kobe, or Durant, that his offensive shortcomings make up for it at this point.

dude no, your gonna tell me how durant is a better player than dwight? ok he can avg 30.......thats it. oh yeah carries his 8th seed team to the playoffs.

meanwhile dwight can get you 20ppg and lead the league in fg%,blks,rebs and a team with no other good defenders to a top 3 defensive team while still being a top 3 team overall....holla at me when durant does that !!!!!

and who cares how he gets his points off boards etc. if its so easy then why is no other big man doing it?

stawka
09-29-2010, 10:15 PM
:facepalm: @ Hakeem and Shaq only having one each

Unless Dwight somehow develops some awesome offensive game, I don't see it happening

MagicBucsSox
09-29-2010, 10:17 PM
please explain

simple durant can only score and isnt even the runaway best at scoring. thats all he can do

dwight best defensive player, can avg 20, best at rebs,blks,fg%. has a top 3 offensive and defensive team which both run thru him.

atmosFEAR
09-29-2010, 10:26 PM
Absolutely not.

He'll never develop an MVP-deserving offense and, even if he did, Stan Van Gundy isn't smart enough to utilize it.

He's a shoe-in for DPOY.

Hawkeye15
09-29-2010, 10:30 PM
dude no, your gonna tell me how durant is a better player than dwight? ok he can avg 30.......thats it. oh yeah carries his 8th seed team to the playoffs.

meanwhile dwight can get you 20ppg and lead the league in fg%,blks,rebs and a team with no other good defenders to a top 3 defensive team while still being a top 3 team overall....holla at me when durant does that !!!!!

and who cares how he gets his points off boards etc. if its so easy then why is no other big man doing it?

um, leading a 50 win team in the west is not as easy as you think obviously. Durant's scoring efficiency exceeds Dwight's defensive efficiency over Durant (which I give to Howard ONLY because of the Magic's paint protection numbers). Dwight literally lives off a few archaic situations offensively. Durant has become arguably the most efficient scorer in the NBA.
Dwight is a dominant interior defender on a dominant defensive team. There is no arguing that. According to synergy, Dwight gives up 0.82 PPP, Durant 0.79. They are both top 32 in the NBA. While synergy released ratings aren't the tell all, it clearly shows Durant's defense is clearly underrated. In fact, OKC led the NBA in defensive rating according to opponents fg% above expected

http://hoopdata.com/teamxefg.aspx

It uses opponents expected effective field goal percentage, divided by their actual effective field goal percentage. This measure tells us how a team defends shots above the league average percentages given its defensive shot distribution.

Now, if we add the fact that Dwight gets pulled in certain scenarios, due to his complete liability in late game situations with a small lead due to his horrid free throw shooting, and couple in the fact that Durant NEVER gets pulled in late game situations, because he is that valuable, its clear that Durant has surpassed Dwight in the realm of value.

BillyHoyle35
09-29-2010, 10:53 PM
i dont see dwight winning one,
if he does the magic need an incredible season for him to do so.

kArSoN RyDaH
09-30-2010, 12:44 AM
Well Dwight's a top 5 center all time so I'd guess he'd have to win one right?

:facepalm:

shaq

kareem

russell

hakeem

wilt


he is not better than those 5... and never will be.

kArSoN RyDaH
09-30-2010, 01:00 AM
Despite Durants "dominance" i cant put him over Dwight in the MVP race. Dwight is doing the same thing Durant is doing, leading his mediocre team to a top seed in the East. Only thing is Durant hasnt been able to lead his team to a top seed. One good year for Durant does not mean he is ahead of Dwight who has been pretty dominant on Defense and Rebounding for the past couple of years.

29$JerZ
09-30-2010, 01:06 AM
There is a lot of talented wings vs. only a few dominant C's.
He'd have to have a career year offensively while maintaining his D and rebounding numbers.
Improving his FT shooting would put him in the top MVP candidates imo.

mynameismo
09-30-2010, 01:43 AM
Depending on how he develops. But honestly, I don't think he needs dominating offensive stats to win an MVP. DPOY is already a given.

If he gets DPOY + NBA Best Record(without a superstar teammate) = Why not?

ryder78c
09-30-2010, 02:30 AM
DH and KD will be in the running this year with KD winning then DH next year but i see DH winning defensive player of the year for the next few years

godolphins
09-30-2010, 02:50 AM
Dwight Howard has no offensive game, but he can win dpoy not the mvp.

Wade>You
09-30-2010, 02:57 AM
He certainly can with his current scenario. His offensive is only improving and he is still the best defensive player in the league by a longshot. The Magic winning the East and Dwight averaging something along the lines of 20-24 points and 13+ boards along with 2-3 blks will certainly warrant a chance.I'd think that would guarantee him an MVP. I'd give it to him if he did accomplish that.

Antipod
09-30-2010, 03:09 AM
no

Khalifa21
09-30-2010, 06:47 AM
No... He just doesn't have the complete game to be an MVP.

DreamShaker
09-30-2010, 06:54 AM
Howard just doesn't have any killer instinct from what he's shown so far. Dwight Howard just doesn't scare you. He can affect the outcome of games, yes, but not at the level of a Wade, Durant, Kobe, or Lebron. He can't carry a team on his back and say "ok guys, we are not losing this game". That's an MVP to me. So unless Hakeem worked some magic (no pun intended) with him this summer he just doesn't have the game to warrant the MVP award.

JordansBulls
09-30-2010, 08:28 AM
Howard just doesn't have any killer instinct from what he's shown so far. Dwight Howard just doesn't scare you. He can affect the outcome of games, yes, but not at the level of a Wade, Durant, Kobe, or Lebron. He can't carry a team on his back and say "ok guys, we are not losing this game". That's an MVP to me. So unless Hakeem worked some magic (no pun intended) with him this summer he just doesn't have the game to warrant the MVP award.

I think with Howard leading the Magic to high seeds yearly he clearly will eventually get one. However, Ewing didn't manage to get one even though he led his team to the top seed a few times.

ttam68
09-30-2010, 09:59 AM
I'd think that would guarantee him an MVP. I'd give it to him if he did accomplish that.

So two more PPG and he's "guaranteed" to win it?

At 60% FG% thats 1.67 shots more per game and he's guaranteed MVP. Also, by that logic, he should've won in '07-08 and '08-09.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=2384

------------------------------------------------------------------------

He's not likely to ever get one. People underrate his skills because he isnt aggressive enough on offense. The league changed a lot of rules to favor perimeter play, and he just doesn't seem to be able to operate within them. Even I was shocked he only takes 10 shots per game. For a top 5-10 guy thats absurd.

Even if he did put up 25 points and lead his team to a top 3 or so record playing the way he does now, people would still gripe about him not having "post moves," or not living up to his potential. Its really a lose-lose at this point.

He doesn't seem likely to develop a go-to type, dominant, consistent offensive game. Even without that, he puts up great scoring numbers and people discredit them. And, lastly, all this talk leads to an impression of him that diminishes all the great, highly productive, highly efficient things he does contribute.

Boo2u
09-30-2010, 10:10 AM
Well Dwight's a top 5 center all time so I'd guess he'd have to win one right?


I have to go search for threads on this... would love to see the logic to back up this statement. He's good, but top 5 all time is a little too bold of a claim, considering some of the legendary talent he'd have to surpass.

Back that up!

And no, I don't think he ever wins an MVP, but I do think he has a number of years where he's in the close running. He is certainly a top 5 center in the current NBA.

SteveNash
09-30-2010, 05:56 PM
:facepalm:

shaq

kareem

russell

hakeem

wilt


he is not better than those 5... and never will be.

Those 5 combined 2 DPOY awards.

Dwight alone 2 DPOY awards.

COOLbeans
09-30-2010, 06:02 PM
He needs to get better on the post

Forte22
09-30-2010, 06:10 PM
Meh.

HakeemTheDream
10-01-2010, 08:21 PM
If he wasn't playing in the same era as Lebron and Durant he would have had a very good chance, people talk about how he needs to get better on offense but I don't think they understand how good his defense is. Stopping 20 points in a game is equivalent to scoring 20 points in a game, maybe it's even better because defense leads to offense a lot of the time.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2010, 08:26 PM
Those 5 combined 2 DPOY awards.

Dwight alone 2 DPOY awards.

how many 1st team all defense were those guys? And they are all exponentially better offensively. On top of that, send Dwight back to 1990. He would probably be a PF.

JordansBulls
10-02-2010, 02:52 PM
Dwight Howard has no offensive game, but he can win dpoy not the mvp.

Explain!!!

CHANGO
10-02-2010, 03:00 PM
I see Kevin Durant, winning the MVP, this season.

Jewelz0376
10-02-2010, 05:20 PM
No... He just doesn't have the complete game to be an MVP.

Steve Nash didn't have a complete game and he won back to back mvps...he played no D....


Howard is the most dominant defensive player since Hakeem.... and even though he has lots of room to improve his post game he still gets around 20 ppg..
If Orl can
1)stop shooting so many 3s and get D12 more than 10 shots a game improving his post game only a little bit
2) Get either a elite pg or elite wing to pair up with d12 (ex. melo or cp3)

If they do this along with Dwight continuing to make improvements on his post game he will def win one...

Burkey3472
10-02-2010, 06:10 PM
Even though Dwight Howard's offensive game has gotten better over the last couple of years it still isn't good enough to win the MVP right now. He may be the best defensive player in the league but averaging 18 PPG wont win you the MVP unless it's in a down year. He needs to raise his PPG to around 24 to really get strong consideration.

Hawkeye15
10-02-2010, 06:53 PM
Steve Nash didn't have a complete game and he won back to back mvps...he played no D....


Howard is the most dominant defensive player since Hakeem.... and even though he has lots of room to improve his post game he still gets around 20 ppg..
If Orl can
1)stop shooting so many 3s and get D12 more than 10 shots a game improving his post game only a little bit
2) Get either a elite pg or elite wing to pair up with d12 (ex. melo or cp3)

If they do this along with Dwight continuing to make improvements on his post game he will def win one...

that ties into a comment I made pages ago. They don't have OPOY award, but they do have the DPOY award, which is a major award. I think the committee that is will continue to give Dwight those awards, and it will allow a scapegoat to not have him win MVP. "Hey look, Dwight already has a major award. Lets give this one to LeBron, or Wade, or whomever"

But, put CP3 next to Howard, and Dwight would get so many easy looks he would end up with 25+ a night

Brooklyn Mets
10-02-2010, 08:28 PM
i think its possible for him to become MVP but the odds are against him..

JordansBulls
10-03-2010, 10:13 AM
Those 5 combined 2 DPOY awards.

Dwight alone 2 DPOY awards.

Yeah, amazing isn't it?

footballer2369
10-03-2010, 11:13 AM
0.001% chance

JordansBulls
10-06-2010, 06:51 PM
0.001% chance

:confused:

Raph12
10-07-2010, 01:51 AM
With Lebron and Wade removing themselves from the running and with Kobe's eventual decline, it will be between Durant and Dwight for the next 2-5 years (and the question will be if OKC can win that many games for KD to get it).

If Orlando gets the most wins in the league, with Dwight avging 20-22ppg 13-15rpg 1-2apg 1-2spg 3-4bpg, he can win it.

Raph12
10-07-2010, 01:59 AM
how many 1st team all defense were those guys? And they are all exponentially better offensively. On top of that, send Dwight back to 1990. He would probably be a PF.

Granted those 5 were much better offensively (besides Russell who was a much worse scorer, but much better passer), but Dwight could've easily held his own in 1990. Sure he wouldn't be the best center in the league, but he'd easily be Top 5.

Btw send Dwight back to 1960 to play on the Celts and he'd easily be in the Top 5 of all-time.


that ties into a comment I made pages ago. They don't have OPOY award, but they do have the DPOY award, which is a major award. I think the committee that is will continue to give Dwight those awards, and it will allow a scapegoat to not have him win MVP. "Hey look, Dwight already has a major award. Lets give this one to LeBron, or Wade, or whomever"

But, put CP3 next to Howard, and Dwight would get so many easy looks he would end up with 25+ a night

This I can agree with, but with Lebron, Wade and possibly Kobe out of the race, the Magic might win enough for Dwight to get MVP avging only 20-22ppg.

29$JerZ
10-07-2010, 02:05 AM
Dwight won't win a MVP award until be breaks out offensively. Offensive stats are rewarded more than defensive stats, its why there is a MVP and a DPOY awards.

It's a shame because I honestly think if Dwight put up an average for 1 season 14rpg and 4bpg but lower than 20 ppg he'd lose out to a guy like Durant who will average 30 points.

Baller1
10-07-2010, 02:28 AM
He'll always be a candidate, but with players like LeBron, Durant, Wade, Paul, Williams, and Rose in the league, I don't see him ever getting one.

shep33
10-07-2010, 03:09 AM
I'm not a Magic fan but I'll just say this...

He should win one... unfair if he doesn't IMO. I think a lot of players in this league have won MVP's based principally on offense... for instance, Nash and Dirk are two that come to mind, great offensive players, but defense isn't the greatest. So whats the difference if a player is great on defense? It's kind of flawed IMO, its not like Howard is terrible on offense, he gets his 20ppg and still shoots a high clip...

On top of that he's going to lead the league in rebounds and blocks for a few years still. I think he should get one, but sports often give MVP awards to offense rather than defense.

JordansBulls
10-13-2010, 02:55 PM
He'll always be a candidate, but with players like LeBron, Durant, Wade, Paul, Williams, and Rose in the league, I don't see him ever getting one.

You can use that logic with most of those players as well. Dwight has a better shot to win one than CP3, Deron, or Rose.

Avenged
10-13-2010, 03:33 PM
You can use that logic with most of those players as well. Dwight has a better shot to win one than CP3, Deron, or Rose.

Only because of the team around him. Currently, the Magic are better than the Hornets, Jazz, and the Bulls, so Dwight has the advantage in that regard. The only real threat to Dwight from the 3 players you mentioned above is Chris Paul. He may not have the best team out there, but there's just no denying how talented/good he is. He's capable of lifting a team that's not so good, into a playoff contender just like he did a couple seasons ago.

Deron, I feel he has more work to do, mainly with his team. They need to be top 4 throughout the league for him to have a slight chance at least. And Rose, well he's not at that level yet.

As of right now, Lebron/Kobe/Wade/Durant are the obstacles Dwight has to get through.

Hawkeye15
10-13-2010, 03:44 PM
[QUOTE=Raph12;15119600]Granted those 5 were much better offensively (besides Russell who was a much worse scorer, but much better passer), but Dwight could've easily held his own in 1990. Sure he wouldn't be the best center in the league, but he'd easily be Top 5.

Btw send Dwight back to 1960 to play on the Celts and he'd easily be in the Top 5 of all-time.
QUOTE]

well, you are asking us to send a physical specimen back to 1960. Of course he would dominate, he would be far stronger than anyone.
And I can agree Dwight would have gotten along fine in 1990, but I think his offensive efficiency would be lower than currently is, due to rules, and there being a ton more classic centers back then. But that is speculation

jerseybostonian
10-13-2010, 07:41 PM
He'll win an MVP when the media gets tired of giving MVP's to LeBron or Kobe. When the same players are getting voted, voters look for the good story rather than the ones who deserve it.

This happened when Jordan and Kareem lost out on MVP's because they won so many. The most recent example is Nowitzki over Nash. Voters wouldn't give it to Nash because they were tired of giving it to him. Also with Nash, if he can win it by only being useful on offense, why can't Howard win it as the best defender in the league?

Daze9900
10-13-2010, 08:01 PM
I would have to say no. With Darantulas running around and the U Mad trio. If the Heat get a championship you have to say Lebron or Wade may scoop up votes. Bryant may have one more year in him as a serious candidate. I could see the youngsters coming up and taking over the league in a few years i.e Wall, Rose, Griffin (when he leaves LA)

jerseybostonian
10-13-2010, 11:46 PM
I would have to say no. With Darantulas running around and the U Mad trio. If the Heat get a championship you have to say Lebron or Wade may scoop up votes. Bryant may have one more year in him as a serious candidate. I could see the youngsters coming up and taking over the league in a few years i.e Wall, Rose, Griffin (when he leaves LA)

It's voted on before the championship. But they do contribute a lot of it to regular season wins. I'd say if the Thunder get a top two seed in the west any time soon, Durant has it in the bag. Whether you think it's fair or not to hold it to that standard, that's what the voters do.

Raph12
10-13-2010, 11:54 PM
well, you are asking us to send a physical specimen back to 1960. Of course he would dominate, he would be far stronger than anyone.
And I can agree Dwight would have gotten along fine in 1990, but I think his offensive efficiency would be lower than currently is, due to rules, and there being a ton more classic centers back then. But that is speculation

See this I can agree with, but I personally just feel like Dwight will be a late bloomer. I think in the next few years his offensive game will catch up with him and he'll be one of the most lethal and complete players in the league.


Only because of the team around him. Currently, the Magic are better than the Hornets, Jazz, and the Bulls, so Dwight has the advantage in that regard. The only real threat to Dwight from the 3 players you mentioned above is Chris Paul. He may not have the best team out there, but there's just no denying how talented/good he is. He's capable of lifting a team that's not so good, into a playoff contender just like he did a couple seasons ago.

Deron, I feel he has more work to do, mainly with his team. They need to be top 4 throughout the league for him to have a slight chance at least. And Rose, well he's not at that level yet.

As of right now, Lebron/Kobe/Wade/Durant are the obstacles Dwight has to get through.

If you trade Dwight and Nelson for CP3 and Okafor/Deron & Al/Rose & Boozer, the Hornets/Jazz/Bulls get much better. Dwight's impact on the game is much greater than all of those guys, that's why he's more deserving than those guys. IMO Dwight's only competition in the next 2-3 years will be Durant. Kobe is getting older, Lebron and Wade play on a super-stacked team and wouldn't get enough votes to win and Durant's team may not be good enough to win it.

I think if Orlando wins 60+ (finishing atleast top 3 with Lakers & Heat) and Dwight avgs 20-22ppg|13-15rpg|2-3apg|1-2spg|3-4bpg on 55+FG%... Dwight takes it.

Avenged
10-14-2010, 12:36 AM
If you trade Dwight and Nelson for CP3 and Okafor/Deron & Al/Rose & Boozer, the Hornets/Jazz/Bulls get much better. Dwight's impact on the game is much greater than all of those guys, that's why he's more deserving than those guys. IMO Dwight's only competition in the next 2-3 years will be Durant. Kobe is getting older, Lebron and Wade play on a super-stacked team and wouldn't get enough votes to win and Durant's team may not be good enough to win it.

I think if Orlando wins 60+ (finishing atleast top 3 with Lakers & Heat) and Dwight avgs 20-22ppg|13-15rpg|2-3apg|1-2spg|3-4bpg on 55+FG%... Dwight takes it.

Well I was talking about right now, he has to go through Lebron, Kobe, Wade, and Durant. And for the future, as of right now it looks like his biggest competition will be Lebron, Durant, Chris Paul, and whoever else emerges.

Lebron will always be in the discussion due to the fact on how good he is. He's a complete player, his stats back him up, and his team will be on top of the league for a long time.

Consistently for the future, the top 5 I see for MVP consideration are Lebron, Durant, Dwight, Chris Paul, and who ever else emerges (like I said).

Dwight has some work to do though, mainly develop an offensive game. He won't get votes simply by dominating on the defensive end.

Raph12
10-14-2010, 02:46 AM
Well I was talking about right now, he has to go through Lebron, Kobe, Wade, and Durant. And for the future, as of right now it looks like his biggest competition will be Lebron, Durant, Chris Paul, and whoever else emerges.

Lebron will always be in the discussion due to the fact on how good he is. He's a complete player, his stats back him up, and his team will be on top of the league for a long time.

Consistently for the future, the top 5 I see for MVP consideration are Lebron, Durant, Dwight, Chris Paul, and who ever else emerges (like I said).

Dwight has some work to do though, mainly develop an offensive game. He won't get votes simply by dominating on the defensive end.

Lebron's out IMO, even if the Heat win 65+, Wade should get equal if not more recognition. I don't think Durant and CP3's team will win enough this season, they are still not elite teams as of yet. I think Kobe will be challenging Dwight and Durant's stats will as well, but these next few years will be his best shot at winning it.

The bottomline to me is: win total + stats + contributions will win the MVP award. Can OKC or NO win 55-65 games for KD or CP3 to challenge Dwight? Will they reward Lebron with the MVP for the 3rd straight season despite playing with another Top 3 player and also a Top 15 player? Will Kobe try to take it easy and cruise through the season and be healthy for the playoffs or will he put up beast numbers to try and win one more time?... Putting up 20-22ppg|13-15rpg|2-3apg|1-2spg|3-4bpg on a 60+win (won 59 last season) team will likely trump what any of these other guys will do, but will winning DPOY hold him back?

Baller1
10-14-2010, 02:56 AM
He'll win an MVP when the media gets tired of giving MVP's to LeBron or Kobe. When the same players are getting voted, voters look for the good story rather than the ones who deserve it.

This happened when Jordan and Kareem lost out on MVP's because they won so many. The most recent example is Nowitzki over Nash. Voters wouldn't give it to Nash because they were tired of giving it to him. Also with Nash, if he can win it by only being useful on offense, why can't Howard win it as the best defender in the league?

That's where Durant, Paul, Williams, Rose, etc., come in.

Raph12
10-14-2010, 03:02 AM
That's where Durant, Paul, Williams, Rose, etc., come in.

None of those teams will win enough for those guys to win MVP... Orlando is pretty much guaranteed to finish with atleast 55+.

Sadds The Gr8
10-14-2010, 03:07 AM
If he can bump his PPG to 24 at least, then i'll say yes, but i voted no because i'm not sure if he can do that...also nowdays it's a "guard's league", and big men don't get as much respect as the 90's/early 2000's. It'll be tough to win over Lebron, Wade, Durant, Kobe atm; and then Durant, Rose, Evans (if he continues to develop into a superstar), Wall, etc...

jerseybostonian
10-14-2010, 12:57 PM
That's where Durant, Paul, Williams, Rose, etc., come in.

I still see Howard as the superior player to all of them. But it doesn't really matter. Voters care about winning, no matter how much the best player contributes to it.

Hawkeye15
10-14-2010, 01:31 PM
See this I can agree with, but I personally just feel like Dwight will be a late bloomer. I think in the next few years his offensive game will catch up with him and he'll be one of the most lethal and complete players in the league.



If you trade Dwight and Nelson for CP3 and Okafor/Deron & Al/Rose & Boozer, the Hornets/Jazz/Bulls get much better. Dwight's impact on the game is much greater than all of those guys, that's why he's more deserving than those guys. IMO Dwight's only competition in the next 2-3 years will be Durant. Kobe is getting older, Lebron and Wade play on a super-stacked team and wouldn't get enough votes to win and Durant's team may not be good enough to win it.

I think if Orlando wins 60+ (finishing atleast top 3 with Lakers & Heat) and Dwight avgs 20-22ppg|13-15rpg|2-3apg|1-2spg|3-4bpg on 55+FG%... Dwight takes it.


why do you think he will be a late bloomer?

Hawkeye15
10-14-2010, 01:32 PM
I still see Howard as the superior player to all of them. But it doesn't really matter. Voters care about winning, no matter how much the best player contributes to it.

a healthy CP3 is the best player listed there

Hellcrooner
10-14-2010, 01:36 PM
If he learns to PLAY and gets a hjumper and good post moves.

more than one DEFINETLY.
I he goes on basing his game only in being an athletitc freak. Nope

Hellcrooner
10-14-2010, 01:37 PM
If he can bump his PPG to 24 at least, then i'll say yes, but i voted no because i'm not sure if he can do that...also nowdays it's a "guard's league", and big men don't get as much respect as the 90's/early 2000's. It'll be tough to win over Lebron, Wade, Durant, Kobe atm; and then Durant, Rose, Evans (if he continues to develop into a superstar), Wall, etc...

I think he will join one of them in some time .

Hope its the Lakers :D

XRAE12
10-14-2010, 01:41 PM
[QUOTE]For reference here are some great centers other the the 3 marquee Centers in Russell (5 MVP's), Kareem (6 MVP's and Wilt (4 MVP's) that have won MVP's.


Moses Malone - 3 MVP's
Hakeem - 1 MVP
Shaq - 1 MVP
Robinson - 1 MVP
Walton - 1 MVP
Ewing - 0 MVP
Mourning - 0 MVP



Do you think Dwight will actually win a League MVP sometime in his career?[QUOTE]

That's ridiculous! Not only is he the BEST CENTER in the NBA, hes the ONLY CENTER!!! Back in the days, the Competition was far to great. the NBA was stacked! Now all you have are a select few which compete for it every year. Hands down, Dwight will win very soon! He's top five "players" in the League..

NYKalltheway
10-14-2010, 01:47 PM
Since SF has lots of competition with Durant, Lebron and maybe 2011 rookie Barnes might light up the world and be a 3rd candidate, and Wade/Lebron are both gonna have to live with eachother as teammates so none of them gets more scoring etc, I think it's easier for Dwight Howard to win an MVP sooner rather than later. I think he can. Perhaps not in Orlando. (maybe in NY with Amare & Paul :D:D:D:D) I guess it's gonna be the Lakers as they always get the best players, and his story might be the same as Shaq's at the end of the day. Leave Orlando for Lakers.

But the fact that there's increased competition with Durant's emergence as a superstar, it's kind of harder for a center to win this unless he maybe averages 25/15 or something, since Durant might average 30-33PPG

Double_R
10-14-2010, 02:03 PM
It's hard to win MVP when you have guys out there putting up crazy stats like Lebron, Durant, Kobe, etc. Usually centers don't get MVPs. However, the stuff Dwight does on a nightly basis doesn't always show up on the stat sheet. He changes games more than almost any player, besides an elite few. His abilities change so many offensive and defensive game plans which is something I would call very VALUABLE. I keep hearing all these people saying his offensive game, blah blah blah... All he has to do is score about 25 pts a game and the award is his. He's already averaged 21 pts a game twice, if he adds about 5 points to his game to go with the 14+ rebounds and 3 blks, 2ast, 1 stl(led centers in steals), leads fg%, then the award is his.

justinnum1
10-14-2010, 02:07 PM
If he can avg 25+ points a game than I would say yes.

Raph12
10-14-2010, 02:09 PM
why do you think he will be a late bloomer?

Because he's shown gradual improvement, he never had a big jump in his game, we've seen signs of his offense all of the last two seasons. He's already hit 7 jumpers in 3 games this preseason and works on his offensive game in practise everyday. I'm sure it'll come along and I think with Lebron and Wade both playing in Miami, he'll have a great shot at winning MVP in the next 3-5 years.


a healthy CP3 is the best player listed there

Maybe skill-wise, but Dwight's impact on the game is greater than anyone on that list.

Hawkeye15
10-14-2010, 02:16 PM
Because he's shown gradual improvement, he never had a big jump in his game, we've seen signs of his offense all of the last two seasons. He's already hit 7 jumpers in 3 games this preseason and works on his offensive game in practise everyday. I'm sure it'll come along and I think with Lebron and Wade both playing in Miami, he'll have a great shot at winning MVP in the next 3-5 years.



Maybe skill-wise, but Dwight's impact on the game is greater than anyone on that list.

I can possibly side with your opinion on his improvement. He doesn't have natural touch in the slightest, so he will really have to pick a skill or two every summer, and work on it specifically.
The second point, we don't need to discuss here. I know you have your hands full with your boy haha. But Paul's win shares trump Dwight's.

Raph12
10-14-2010, 02:20 PM
I can possibly side with your opinion on his improvement. He doesn't have natural touch in the slightest, so he will really have to pick a skill or two every summer, and work on it specifically.
The second point, we don't need to discuss here. I know you have your hands full with your boy haha. But Paul's win shares trump Dwight's.

I agree, his natural touch isn't there, he needs to put more work in than most to be as dominant as people expect him to be.

As for the second part, I'll just say this, trade CP3 and Okafor for Nelson and Dwight, which team will have gotten the better trade?

Hellcrooner
10-14-2010, 02:28 PM
I agree, his natural touch isn't there, he needs to put more work in than most to be as dominant as people expect him to be.

As for the second part, I'll just say this, trade CP3 and Okafor for Nelson and Dwight, which team will have gotten the better trade?

None.
It woudl take both franchises out of contention.

footballer2369
10-14-2010, 02:30 PM
I would say the Magic would be much better off IMO...

Hawkeye15
10-14-2010, 02:32 PM
I agree, his natural touch isn't there, he needs to put more work in than most to be as dominant as people expect him to be.As for the second part, I'll just say this, trade CP3 and Okafor for Nelson and Dwight, which team will have gotten the better trade?

exactly. But Dwight appears to be a very hard worker, he just really needs to expand his game ever so slowly. I never thought of it the way you put it, as a late bloomer. I am not sure why I didn't think of that. Guys like Dwight, with no natural touch, can indeed become much better over time. While Karl Malone did it faster, he was the same thing. Came in as a power player with nothing but athleticism. Couldn't shoot worth a lick, sometimes damaging the rim when he shot haha. But he worked his tail off and got a comfortable jumper and became a good free throw shooter.

Again, that is a debate for another thread. No worries. And adding another player each way makes it pure speculation really

el_primo_nano
10-14-2010, 02:33 PM
hell yea he is a beast!! But he will have to have a year of the ages. The Magic would have to have the best record in the league, he would have to be top 3 in scoring, rebounding and have an unbelievable year defensively. Sounds like alot, but he has the mind and body to do it

Raph12
10-14-2010, 02:43 PM
I would say the Magic would be much better off IMO...

None.
It woudl take both franchises out of contention.

The Hornets would look like this:
PG - Jameer Nelson
SG - Marcus Thorton
SF - Trevor Ariza
PF - David West
C - Dwight Howard

That's easily an upgrade from what they have right now.

The new Magic team would look like this:
PG - Chris Paul
SG - Vince Carter
SF - Quentin Richardson
PF - Rashard Lewis
C - Emeka Okafor

If you think this team would win 60+ making it to/past the ECFs, you're both delusional.


exactly. But Dwight appears to be a very hard worker, he just really needs to expand his game ever so slowly. I never thought of it the way you put it, as a late bloomer. I am not sure why I didn't think of that. Guys like Dwight, with no natural touch, can indeed become much better over time. While Karl Malone did it faster, he was the same thing. Came in as a power player with nothing but athleticism. Couldn't shoot worth a lick, sometimes damaging the rim when he shot haha. But he worked his tail off and got a comfortable jumper and became a good free throw shooter.

Again, that is a debate for another thread. No worries. And adding another player each way makes it pure speculation really

Exactly, most people think that just because he's 6 seasons in that it's as good as he'll get. What they fail to comprehend is that he came in with nothing and got better each and every year. He's 24 years old, he's got ways to go before being labelled just a defensive and rebounding beast. I think over the next few years he'll establish himself as a great complete player and will be considered one of the greats when it's all said and done. Adding a bit more to his game each year works out fine because he's still a monster on the boards and on defense, plus his athleticism allows for him to dominate most centers in the league. If he develops a jumper alone (something he's really been focused on), it'll open up his game, now add a consistent hook and some solid footwork and you got yourself one of the greatest centers of all-time.

Agreed we'll leave that for another day.

Reddd
10-14-2010, 02:46 PM
If shaq has only 1 MVP throughout his career, then I'd say Howard is miles away from winning it.

Hawkeye15
10-14-2010, 02:48 PM
If shaq has only 1 MVP throughout his career, then I'd say Howard is miles away from winning it.

that is the other factor. Shaq should have 5 probably. And he only has 1...

bagwell368
10-14-2010, 02:56 PM
All you had to do is watch a 6' 10" journeyman and his sidekick an elderly guy that tosses too many 3's eat him for breakfast in the Celts/Magic series last year to know:

1. he has the greatest physique of all time for a center
2. he does play pretty fair D
3. he has no sense of timing on offense, nor anything that could be called shooting skills more then 4.5 feet from the basket.
4. he looked like a 4 year old in a stroller after a 10 year old took his lolly - lost and dazed.

He is still pretty young and could grow into something, but right now, he's a front runner/punk, he is soft, and he doesn't know how to respond the few times he does get angry or upset.

He needs a tough crusty big man coach to drive him to the next level because clearly he has no idea how to do it himself.

People that talk about him as top 10 all time, haven't seen enough centers in action. Ewing who had a lot of holes in his offensive game was a much better player for instance.

Hellcrooner
10-14-2010, 03:01 PM
If shaq has only 1 MVP throughout his career, then I'd say Howard is miles away from winning it.

shaq had to bear for a lot of time with that dude....you may remember, i think he wore number 45.......some months....then he changed it t something he had sported begfore....i dont quite rememebr,

Reddd
10-14-2010, 03:13 PM
shaq had to bear for a lot of time with that dude....you may remember, i think he wore number 45.......some months....then he changed it t something he had sported begfore....i dont quite rememebr,

He wasn't even in his prime. Besides during his prime shaq managed to win only one MVP, which hints that it will be extremely difficult for Howard to win it. And to put up such numbers as shaq did 10 years back or so? Would Howard ever be That good? I say no.

Rasser
10-14-2010, 03:58 PM
Yea he needs to become a more offensive threat then he currently is to win the MVP title.

JordansBulls
10-17-2010, 08:25 PM
Yea he needs to become a more offensive threat then he currently is to win the MVP title.

When you say offensive threat, how many ppg are you talking?

Sly Guy
10-17-2010, 08:53 PM
he needs to either win a 'ship, or develop a better offensive package.

Sly Guy
10-17-2010, 08:54 PM
When you say offensive threat, how many ppg are you talking?

I'd like to see him be able to go off for 40 on night when his team looks like they belong in the d-league. If he can carry his team on both ends of the floor then he's an mvp candidate, because most other candidates can.

JordansBulls
10-18-2010, 12:36 PM
I'd like to see him be able to go off for 40 on night when his team looks like they belong in the d-league. If he can carry his team on both ends of the floor then he's an mvp candidate, because most other candidates can.
ok, but that doesn't answer how much you are looking for on a yearly basis for his average.

justinnum1
10-18-2010, 12:40 PM
ok, but that doesn't answer how much you are looking for on a yearly basis for his average.

at least 25ppg

Hawkeye15
10-18-2010, 12:43 PM
KG was the runaway MVP in 04 at 24/14. He did average about 5 apg

Ragan
10-18-2010, 12:57 PM
For me, and I think a lot of people, he needs to be dominant for 4 quarters. How can someone be the MVP when it's so easy for other teams to take him out of a game (by fouling) that he becomes a non-factor in close games when it matters most? That's the only thing holding him back for me. If he got his FT% up to a respectable number (not an easy task for many big men), he would get strong consideration.

Hawkeye15
10-18-2010, 01:03 PM
For me, and I think a lot of people, he needs to be dominant for 4 quarters. How can someone be the MVP when it's so easy for other teams to take him out of a game (by fouling) that he becomes a non-factor in close games when it matters most? That's the only thing holding him back for me. If he got his FT% up to a respectable number (not an easy task for many big men), he would get strong consideration.

agreed, which is my problem with Rondo as well. Players who are so hideous at a part of the game, that they actually can become a liability at certain stages, can't be looked at as MVP candidate unless they are SO dominant in other phases. Dwight doesn't have enough superiority in rebounding or defense to justify it

joeboow90
10-18-2010, 01:17 PM
I think he has the ability to be a league MVP at some point in his career, but i dont see him winning one with the team around him, their coach and offensive philosophy. Dwight only averages 10 shots a game throughout his career, you cant score 30 with 10 shot attempts.

As long as he is on the Magic with that team around him with 4 guys on the perimeter chucking 3s and standing there letting Dwight go 3 on 1 in the paint he will never win an MVP. Unless they change their offensive philosophy and get Dwight some more set plays hell never have great offensive numbers to go with his great defensive game. Dwight is also not very aggressive on the offensive side which adds to the problem

Sly Guy
10-18-2010, 01:35 PM
ok, but that doesn't answer how much you are looking for on a yearly basis for his average.


I didn't give one because I don't believe him winning one will ever be tied to a number like that. What will count more is his presence on the court. An MVP candidate is still able to have their 10 point nights, as long as when his team needs him, he is able to score proficiently enough to shoulder a large load. I don't see Dwight capable of this, and therefore, is not strong enough on both sides of the ball to win the MVP.

As much as I hate to feed the Kobe homers on these boards, if you compare that to Kobe, you are always fearful even when he's playing a small role in the Lakers' offense because you know he can turn it on and reel off 15 points straight.

Sly Guy
10-18-2010, 01:38 PM
For me, and I think a lot of people, he needs to be dominant for 4 quarters. How can someone be the MVP when it's so easy for other teams to take him out of a game (by fouling) that he becomes a non-factor in close games when it matters most? That's the only thing holding him back for me. If he got his FT% up to a respectable number (not an easy task for many big men), he would get strong consideration.

I don't buy that. Shaq was an MVP-caliber player despite his inability to make free throws. What defines an MVP is more of their overall effectiveness on both sides of the floor, rather than particular stats supporting one or another. If you can't make free throws, make it up with offensive boards, or a high FG%, assists, or be turnover free. There are ways to offset specific deficiencies in someone's game, but all in all, to be MVP, you've gotta be the best, or near the best as both a defender and offensive threat.

Hawkeye15
10-18-2010, 01:41 PM
I don't buy that. Shaq was an MVP-caliber player despite his inability to make free throws. What defines an MVP is more of their overall effectiveness on both sides of the floor, rather than particular stats supporting one or another. If you can't make free throws, make it up with offensive boards, or a high FG%, assists, or be turnover free. There are ways to offset specific deficiencies in someone's game, but all in all, to be MVP, you've gotta be the best, or near the best as both a defender and offensive threat.

because his production in other areas was so dominant, it outweighed his poor free throw shooting. if you give the ball to Dwight within 8 feet, there is a decent chance he will score if no help comes. In Shaq's prime, it was GUARANTEED he was dunking on your center if no help came. Shaq was also a very good passer.
And MVP has never meant what its supposed to. it should go to the most dominant player in the game. And there have been plenty of times it hasn't

nipo10847
10-18-2010, 01:58 PM
Dwight has a long way to go. I mean a looooooooong way in order to win a mvp award. As of now he is a total non-factor on offense and too easy to get fouled out of the game. A mvp is the player who stays on the floor to lead your team during clutch times. Offensively, Dwight is nowhere near to that status yet. I am not so sure he can improve a lot on the offensive end considering he already played 6 seasons. How many players make significant strides by the 7th season or beyond?

FadeAwayLikeMJ
10-18-2010, 04:06 PM
there is no real reason why he couldnt

Ragan
10-18-2010, 04:31 PM
I don't buy that. Shaq was an MVP-caliber player despite his inability to make free throws. What defines an MVP is more of their overall effectiveness on both sides of the floor, rather than particular stats supporting one or another. If you can't make free throws, make it up with offensive boards, or a high FG%, assists, or be turnover free. There are ways to offset specific deficiencies in someone's game, but all in all, to be MVP, you've gotta be the best, or near the best as both a defender and offensive threat.

Sly, the year Shaq won (and even he only won once), he led the league in scoring with 29.7ppg while shooting 57.4% (also 1st in the league), racked up 13.6rpg, along with 3.8apg and 3.0bpg. Most of those numbers were career highs or close to it for the most dominating big man of a generation (meaning historically great numbers). Oh, and he led his team to 67 wins, the 5th most ALL TIME.

To reiterate, Shaq, one of the greatest big men of all time, only won the award once, in a historically great season, on a historically great team. I'm not saying Dwight can't do it, I'm just saying he's not that close yet.

Sly Guy
10-18-2010, 05:46 PM
Sly, the year Shaq won (and even he only won once), he led the league in scoring with 29.7ppg while shooting 57.4% (also 1st in the league), racked up 13.6rpg, along with 3.8apg and 3.0bpg. Most of those numbers were career highs or close to it for the most dominating big man of a generation (meaning historically great numbers). Oh, and he led his team to 67 wins, the 5th most ALL TIME.

To reiterate, Shaq, one of the greatest big men of all time, only won the award once, in a historically great season, on a historically great team. I'm not saying Dwight can't do it, I'm just saying he's not that close yet.

absolutely, but he was doing it on both ends of the floor, dwight is still only that effective on one. So we're in agreement here.

Where we disagree is that single stat lines isn't a reason to take away from one player's contention for the award. My argument was that because of the multifaceted aspects of both the offensive side of the floor or defensive, whether a particularly low stat for a player be FT%, rebounds, whatever, is not a reason to discount someone. You have to look at the overall picture of their ability to influence the game. I used Shaq as an example because he is a big man, and he's never been able to make free throws, but his other attributes, as you just pointed out, were enough to carry the day.

Another good example of an 'incomplete' player winning would be steve nash, who's terrible defense still allowed him to play effectively on a team where offense was the emphasis still allowed him to be a dominant player. His [i]offensive impact on the game made up for his defensive shortcomings in the eyes of those voting, and therefore was voted MVP.

Knickfansince97
10-18-2010, 05:50 PM
eventually when he starts taking his offensive game seriously and develops post moves

JordansBulls
10-18-2010, 10:14 PM
I think if he can get to 24-25 ppg that would be great for him.

albertc86
10-18-2010, 10:53 PM
There is a small chance but Im going to have to say no. Theres to many skilled guards and fowards for him to have a chance to win it. As long as players like Lebron, Wade, Durant, Kobe, Mello, CP3, and Williams in the league he will have a hard time. And with players like Tyreke Evans, Curry, Jennings, Wall and other young stars expected to make there case in a few years theres an even slighter chance to for him to get it. The only way he could get the award is if he ever averages around 25 ppg and maintaining his rebounding and blocking while leading his team to a first or second seed. I just don't see him having a stat line of 25ppg 14rpg and 3bpg.

I agree and disagree with you. I agree that the players you named will be the reason why Dwight will not a MVP award. However, I disagree that he would need an inflated stat line as the one you suggested. There's no question that Dwight will have a number of DPOY awards but his offensive game wouldn't need to be that good to win a MVP award. Take Steve Nash, for example. He has no defense and he won multiple MVP's for averaging close to 20 ppg and 12 assts. All Dwight would need to do is average the same amount of rebounds and score a couple more buckets a game to have a stronger case for MVP because he already dominates the defensive end. But I will say his chances of winning are better now that the Heat has LeBron and Wade on the same team.

Ragan
10-19-2010, 09:12 AM
absolutely, but he was doing it on both ends of the floor, dwight is still only that effective on one. So we're in agreement here.

Where we disagree is that single stat lines isn't a reason to take away from one player's contention for the award. My argument was that because of the multifaceted aspects of both the offensive side of the floor or defensive, whether a particularly low stat for a player be FT%, rebounds, whatever, is not a reason to discount someone. You have to look at the overall picture of their ability to influence the game. I used Shaq as an example because he is a big man, and he's never been able to make free throws, but his other attributes, as you just pointed out, were enough to carry the day.

Another good example of an 'incomplete' player winning would be steve nash, who's terrible defense still allowed him to play effectively on a team where offense was the emphasis still allowed him to be a dominant player. His [i]offensive impact on the game made up for his defensive shortcomings in the eyes of those voting, and therefore was voted MVP.

Yeah I get ya. Though they are related, I'm not really discounting him based solely on a stat line (FT%), as much as what that means to the game. Because he is such a poor FT shooter, regardless if he shot 40% or 60%, he is a non-factor down the stretch. Somebody made the same point about Rondo earlier, which I also agree with. I just don't think you can win MVP if you are a non-factor when your team needs you the most. If he was able to overcome this (i.e. by converting and getting a lot of 3pt play opp's instead of 2 shot fouls for example) then I wouldn't really care about his FT%, because his team could still rely on him in the clutch. But, as of now, they can't.

JordansBulls
10-20-2010, 08:40 AM
I agree and disagree with you. I agree that the players you named will be the reason why Dwight will not a MVP award. However, I disagree that he would need an inflated stat line as the one you suggested. There's no question that Dwight will have a number of DPOY awards but his offensive game wouldn't need to be that good to win a MVP award. Take Steve Nash, for example. He has no defense and he won multiple MVP's for averaging close to 20 ppg and 12 assts. All Dwight would need to do is average the same amount of rebounds and score a couple more buckets a game to have a stronger case for MVP because he already dominates the defensive end. But I will say his chances of winning are better now that the Heat has LeBron and Wade on the same team.

Can't really use the Steve Nash example because he doesnt have the stats that Dwight does nor the impact.

tones1012
10-20-2010, 11:35 AM
doubt it, he'll get plenty of DPOYs, and rightly so. I dont see him developing that MVP type offensive game though

I gree . He should improve his offense to a higher level

Lake_Show2416
10-20-2010, 02:36 PM
wut is he 24 n he's already this good.. he should squeeze 1 out

the most gifted big man ever..... a 300lb 7 footer who has a near to 40 inch vertical and can run the court

JordansBulls
10-21-2010, 03:06 PM
Orlando has been blowing teams out of the water in the preseason.