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metsfan4ever
09-29-2010, 04:20 PM
I was wondering who do you think are the top 5 players in the game today.

Hiters wise, no pitchers
My fault
Finish the rest
1. Pujols(of corse)

cbreezy34
09-29-2010, 04:36 PM
1. Roy Halladay 2. Albert Pujols 3. Miguel Cabrera 4. Chase Utley 5. Felix Hernedez

Swishalicious
09-29-2010, 08:05 PM
Overall? Like defense included? What about their attitude? Ability to play through injuries?

Id say:

1) Pujols
2) Ichiro
3) Mauer
4) Longoria
5) Cano

I left out Han-ram and Miggy due to a lack of defense

metsfan4ever
09-29-2010, 08:48 PM
Overall? Like defense included? What about their attitude? Ability to play through injuries?

Id say:

1) Pujols
2) Ichiro
3) Mauer
4) Longoria
5) Cano

I left out Han-ram and Miggy due to a lack of defense

So if it wasn't for defense strickly hitting who will be your top 5 so assuming you will take out cano and longeria or mauer

SaltyLover
09-29-2010, 08:59 PM
1. Pujols
2. Hamilton
3. Longoria
4. Cano
5. Ichiro

giantspwn
09-29-2010, 11:33 PM
1. Pujols
2. Halladay
3. Lincecum
4. Mauer
5. Longoria

Gigantes4Life
09-30-2010, 02:40 AM
Pujols, Mauer, Longoria, Ramirez and Utley.

No real order. Votto and Hamilton could make a case next year if they keep it up.

C1Bman88
09-30-2010, 03:48 AM
What about their attitude? Ability to play through injuries?

Should that really matter? The media seems to glorify and crucify players all the time, yet we know close to nothing about the player's real attitude. Milton Bradley's perhaps the most extreme case of a player with an attitude problem, yet there are players that still openly say good things about him. And how much does it affect the other players? You'd think that these professionals, who have been playing for most of their lives, would know how to block out another player's bad attitude.

Also, how good is it for a player to actually play through an injury? It feels like players that try and stick around actually do more harm than good. It shows a lot of heart and determination, sure, but it's not always what's best for the team.

todu82
09-30-2010, 08:12 AM
Pujols
Mauer
Halladay
A-Rod
Cabrera

Greet
09-30-2010, 08:15 AM
1. Mauer
2. Pujols
3. A-Roid
4. Cabrera
5. Han-ram

Pinstripe pride
09-30-2010, 10:10 AM
pujols
mauer
longoria
rameriez
cano

bringinwood
09-30-2010, 11:33 AM
Cano ??? That kind of made me laugh...

One decent season on the best lineup in baseball and he's garnering more attention than Josh Hamilton, Adrian Gonzalez or Chase Utley...

Pujols
Mauer
Utley
Hamilton
Cabrera

Forte22
09-30-2010, 11:58 AM
Utley

Halladay

----may be a bit biased.

Pinstripe pride
09-30-2010, 12:17 PM
Cano ??? That kind of made me laugh...

One decent season on the best lineup in baseball and he's garnering more attention than Josh Hamilton, Adrian Gonzalez or Chase Utley...

Pujols
Mauer
Utley
Hamilton
Cabrera

what can i say, i'm a bit homerish

flea
09-30-2010, 12:27 PM
If we're talking hitters, with no consideration for position or defense, then people like Longoria and Mauer probably don't make the cut. A lot of their value is in their position and their quality of defense. I'd go something like this:

1) Albert Pujols
2) Miguel Cabrera
3) Joey Votto
4) Chase Utley
5) Adrian Gonzalez

With Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, and A-Rod just outside. A-Rod would be top 5 easily if I didn't think he is already in his decline (which should be long and productive, but no longer top 5 hitter-worthy). This just shows how good Utley is to be hanging in there with a bunch of 1st basemen and the possible all-time home run king (A-Rod). It's a shame Utley doesn't have any MVPs, as he should have gotten them in the years J-Roll and Howard did.

People like Hamilton, Mauer, and Hanley have had fantastic years, but the rest of these guys have done it for a few years and show no signs of having peaked (as in the case of Mauer with his power, or Hamilton with his health).

NCBoSoxfan21
09-30-2010, 06:15 PM
No Morneau love?

1. Pujols
2. Cabrera
3. Morneau
4. Votto
5. Hamilton

skymin5
09-30-2010, 09:49 PM
No Morneau love?

1. Pujols
2. Cabrera
3. Morneau
4. Votto
5. Hamilton

If it wasn't for the concussion and he at least batted close to career average over the 2nd half, his end year numbers would be incredible and his WAR would lead MLB. It makes him hard to judge right now. He CAN be a top 5 player for sure though. He's suffered some unfortunate second half injuries that have taken away his chances to prove he can be a really good 2nd half player... kinda sucks... he's a beast.

Anyways...

1. Pujols
2. Mauer
3. Halladay
4. Votto (Will overtake Pujols in 2 years)
5. Longoria

Hamilton, Cabrera, Utley, Lincecum all close

Gigantes4Life
10-01-2010, 01:05 AM
No Morneau love?

1. Pujols
2. Cabrera
3. Morneau
4. Votto
5. Hamilton

I'd take Gonzalez and probably Youkilis before Morneau.

Mike Oxlong
10-04-2010, 05:37 PM
If we're talking hitters, with no consideration for position or defense, then people like Longoria and Mauer probably don't make the cut. A lot of their value is in their position and their quality of defense. I'd go something like this:

1) Albert Pujols
2) Miguel Cabrera
3) Joey Votto
4) Chase Utley
5) Adrian Gonzalez

With Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, and A-Rod just outside. A-Rod would be top 5 easily if I didn't think he is already in his decline (which should be long and productive, but no longer top 5 hitter-worthy). This just shows how good Utley is to be hanging in there with a bunch of 1st basemen and the possible all-time home run king (A-Rod). It's a shame Utley doesn't have any MVPs, as he should have gotten them in the years J-Roll and Howard did.

People like Hamilton, Mauer, and Hanley have had fantastic years, but the rest of these guys have done it for a few years and show no signs of having peaked (as in the case of Mauer with his power, or Hamilton with his health).

You do know that he has accomplished this all by the age of 26 as a catcher right?

4x All-Star selection (2006, 2008, 2009, 2010)
2009 AL MVP
3x AL Batting Champion (2006, 2008, 2009)
2x Gold Glove Award winner (2008, 2009)
3x Silver Slugger Award winner (2006, 2008, 2009)

I don't even think he has peaked yet either.

flea
10-04-2010, 06:32 PM
You do know that he has accomplished this all by the age of 26 as a catcher right?

4x All-Star selection (2006, 2008, 2009, 2010)
2009 AL MVP
3x AL Batting Champion (2006, 2008, 2009)
2x Gold Glove Award winner (2008, 2009)
3x Silver Slugger Award winner (2006, 2008, 2009)

I don't even think he has peaked yet either.

You do know that I was speaking for hitters. If we consider defense and position he's higher but he doesn't touch the top 10 hitters in the league, much less the top 5. Just read my post, quit being a homer, and quit telling me your favorite player's accomplishments.

Mike Oxlong
10-04-2010, 06:37 PM
You do know that I was speaking for hitters. If we consider defense and position he's higher but he doesn't touch the top 10 hitters in the league, much less the top 5. Just read my post, quit being a homer, and quit telling me your favorite player's accomplishments.

He's not my favorite player and he is in the top 5 hitters. It's not homerism either.

flea
10-04-2010, 06:39 PM
Oh, because you say so I suppose. Tell me, with some kind of evidence beyond defensive medals and popularity contests, why he's a better hitter than one of: Pujols, Cabrera, Utley, Gonzalez, or Votto.

Mike Oxlong
10-04-2010, 06:48 PM
Oh, because you say so I suppose. Tell me, with some kind of evidence beyond defensive medals and popularity contests, why he's a better hitter than one of: Pujols, Cabrera, Utley, Gonzalez, or Votto.

Does 3 batting titles by 26 count? Hello?

flea
10-04-2010, 06:53 PM
Does 3 batting titles by 26 count? Hello?

Unfortunately, not really. Batting titles pale in comparison to the value of power and high OBPs. Mauer is a high OBP guy, which is helped by his batting titles. But he doesn't have much power, and his 5 month 2009 outburst is starting to look like an outlier. Even if he could hover around a .200 ISO every year he wouldn't be nearly as good a hitter as those 5, save for maybe Utley. A lot of Mauer's value is BABIP dependant.

Mike Oxlong
10-04-2010, 08:02 PM
Whatever you say flea....Being able to hit a lot of home runs is what makes you a good hitter now? How about XBH?

flea
10-04-2010, 08:07 PM
I never said home runs, I said power. Power means extra base hits of all varieties. It means good contact. Home runs are the best result of a PA, but doubles are very good as well. Use slugging percentage.

Mike Oxlong
10-04-2010, 08:18 PM
That's why I said XBH...So 43 doubles in 137 games is no good?

flea
10-04-2010, 08:25 PM
Good? Sure. Top 5 hitter good? No, not with only 9 bombs. Try 45 doubles and 38 home runs in 150 games. That's our man Miguel Cabrera.

Mike Oxlong
10-04-2010, 08:34 PM
Ohhh you are a Tigers fan. That explains this. Cabrera is definitely top 5, I agree, maybe 1,2. But to dismiss Joe Mauer as not being top 5 is ridiculous.

flea
10-04-2010, 08:49 PM
I'm a Braves fan. Here's a list players that are better hitters than Mauer: Pujols, Cabrera, Votto, Utley, Gonzalez, A-Rod, Teixeira, Youkilis, Holliday, Howard, and Hamilton. I'm not being a homer, those men simply are better hitters. Look at their TAvs, wOBAs, OPSs, anything but batting titles.

Mike Oxlong
10-04-2010, 08:56 PM
I'm a Braves fan. Here's a list players that are better hitters than Mauer: Pujols, Cabrera, Votto, Utley, Gonzalez, A-Rod, Teixeira, Youkilis, Holliday, Howard, and Hamilton. I'm not being a homer, those men simply are better hitters. Look at their TAvs, wOBAs, OPSs, anything but batting titles.

Well I'm not changing your mind...You want to go hang out in the Sabermetrics forum?

Bolded equals no. Are we talking just about this year?

flea
10-04-2010, 09:05 PM
He said top 5 hitters, I assumed that to mean the expected top 5 hitters for next year (in other words, the top 5 at the moment based on expected performance). If it were just this year I assume he would have said that, and if it were career then Chipper Jones would be ahead of virtually everyone except Pujols and A-Rod. If you're just going to list mindless medals given by managers and poor sportswriters then this discussion is over. If you want to actually back up your opinion with, you know, facts, then we can continue.

Mike Oxlong
10-04-2010, 09:21 PM
I already stated facts. They just aren't good enough for you. The thread title says top 5 players by the way.

NCBoSoxfan21
10-04-2010, 09:37 PM
Votto isn't a better hitter than Mauer?!!?!?

Come on man...

marlinsfan24
10-05-2010, 06:52 PM
I'm a Braves fan. Here's a list players that are better hitters than Mauer: Pujols, Cabrera, Votto, Utley, Gonzalez, A-Rod, Teixeira, Youkilis, Holliday, Howard, and Hamilton. I'm not being a homer, those men simply are better hitters. Look at their TAvs, wOBAs, OPSs, anything but batting titles.

Throw in Hanley and probably after next season, Jayson Heyward.

Driven
10-05-2010, 08:04 PM
I already stated facts. They just aren't good enough for you. The thread title says top 5 players by the way.
And the first post in this thread indicates hitters.

Nobody is arguing that Mauer is an exceptional player. But a lot of that is dependent on his position and on his defense. If you move him away from the catcher position, and move him to say 1B, he loses value overall. It's clear that Flea was going off of hitting only, and if that's the case, then Mauer is not a top 5 hitter based on what he's accomplished so far. Yes, he's won batting titles. But really, he doesn't have the OBP and SLG needed to be considered top 5. Notice how Ichiro's name wasn't mentioned. Does this make him less valuable? Of course not. The guy is amazing. But he is simply not a top 5 hitter in baseball right now.

el_primo_nano
10-05-2010, 10:40 PM
Pujols, A-Rod, Cano, Cabrera, Hanley/Teixeira..

For all those that say i'm a yankee homer.
Cano is arguably the best 2nd basemen in the league. He hits for power, average and is an above average defensive 2nd basemen (**** YOU PEDROIA)
Tex is a switchhitter that not only hits for power but is the best defensive 1st basemen in the league.
A-Rod. His down year is the best player on your team's career year..

Driven
10-05-2010, 11:15 PM
For all those that say i'm a yankee homer.


(**** YOU PEDROIA)

Real convincing.

el_primo_nano
10-06-2010, 10:37 AM
Compare the numbers Pedroia had the year he won an mvp to Cano's numbers this year. In that case give the MVP to Cano then since he played astronomically this year. Thats why i hate Pedroia. He is a good player, NOT great, and def did not deserve that MVP. He is the 3d best 2nd basemen in the league after Utley and Cano

cwilson21
10-06-2010, 11:02 AM
Is this players or hitters? Mauer's a top 5 player but not a top 5 hitter. He was a top 2 hitter in '09 but other than that season, no.

ShockerArt
10-06-2010, 12:23 PM
I already stated facts. They just aren't good enough for you. The thread title says top 5 players by the way.

Your facts are weak. Media awards and batting titles are nice for the backs of baseball cards. If you want to engage in an intellectual debate about the value of players, you need to do better than that.

Metsfan98
03-16-2011, 06:26 PM
Pujols
Mauer
Halladay
A-Rod
Longoria

Jeffy25
03-17-2011, 02:01 AM
I am surprised how many lists Ichiro made

SEATTLEredsox
03-17-2011, 02:32 AM
Pujols
Halladay
Mauer
Longoria
Hernandez

Honorable mention: Tulowitzki, Ramirez, Gonzalez, Cabrera, Votto, Lincecum

Mr Haha
03-25-2011, 06:49 PM
Pujols
Mauer
Hamilton
Tulowitski
Ichiro/Cano

Mr Haha
03-27-2011, 02:17 PM
I am surprised how many lists Ichiro made

How come?

TheHughesUnit
03-27-2011, 09:57 PM
Pujols
Mauer
Halladay
A-Rod
Cabrera

Swamp Halladay for Felix.

bosox3431
03-28-2011, 01:27 PM
Pujols, A-Rod, Cano, Cabrera, Hanley/Teixeira..

For all those that say i'm a yankee homer.
Cano is arguably the best 2nd basemen in the league. He hits for power, average and is an above average defensive 2nd basemen (**** YOU PEDROIA)
Tex is a switchhitter that not only hits for power but is the best defensive 1st basemen in the league.
A-Rod. His down year is the best player on your team's career year..

If cano is a top 5 player, so is tulowitzki.Tex is not the best defensive 1b. In fact, he's been average the last few years, Tex isn't even a top 5 1b let alone top 5 player. There are many players better the. A-rod. He's not even a top 10 player anymore.


Compare the numbers Pedroia had the year he won an mvp to Cano's numbers this year. In that case give the MVP to Cano then since he played astronomically this year. Thats why i hate Pedroia. He is a good player, NOT great, and def did not deserve that MVP. He is the 3d best 2nd basemen in the league after Utley and Cano

Your comparing two different season. Compare pedroia season with the same season for other players. When he won it was a weak year for MVP candidates. And why do you hate him? It's not like he voted. Whats he supposed to refuse the award? Your just a Yankee homer and these two post prove it.

Jack of Blades
03-29-2011, 12:21 AM
Josh Hamilton
Hambone
The Great Hambino
Hamboner
The Natural

Just my opinion.

Mr Haha
03-29-2011, 10:17 AM
If cano is a top 5 player, so is tulowitzki.Tex is not the best defensive 1b. In fact, he's been average the last few years, Tex isn't even a top 5 1b let alone top 5 player. There are many players better the. A-rod. He's not even a top 10 player anymore.



Your comparing two different season. Compare pedroia season with the same season for other players. When he won it was a weak year for MVP candidates. And why do you hate him? It's not like he voted. Whats he supposed to refuse the award? Your just a Yankee homer and these two post prove it.


Tex isn't a top five first baseman? Prove that.

NCBoSoxfan21
03-29-2011, 10:22 AM
Tex isn't a top five first baseman? Prove that.

Very true.

I believe last year the top 5 were

Pujols
Daric Barton
Ike Davis
Adrian Gonzalez
Morneau/Youkilis

And I would put Votto in there before Tex too.

MelkyNYY
03-29-2011, 01:30 PM
Adrian Gonzalez
Kevin Youkilis
Dustin Pedroia
Carl Crawford
David Ortiz

smm9127
03-29-2011, 01:49 PM
Very true.

I believe last year the top 5 were

Pujols
Daric Barton
Ike Davis
Adrian Gonzalez
Morneau/Youkilis

And I would put Votto in there before Tex too.

You say that you would put Votto in there as if that was such a hard one to choose. Choosing Barton or Davis over Tex makes me think that you have some kind of bias against Tex.

Tex leads both of them by 40+ point in OPS, significantly more home runs than both, all while having his worst statistical season since his rookie year. Daric Barton produces little to no power but UZR greatly favors him. Ike Davis has power but strikes out way too often. I would hold off on placing the two of them above Tex until you see what they do for a few more years.

bosox3431
03-30-2011, 11:14 PM
Tex isn't a top five first baseman? Prove that.

The top 5 1b in war the last two seasons
Pujols
Votto
A-gon
Cabrera
Fielder

Mr Haha
04-01-2011, 03:34 PM
The top 5 1b in war the last two seasons
Pujols
Votto
A-gon
Cabrera
Fielder

According to WAR, Evan Longoria was the best player in the AL last year, so, so much for WAR.

Madtown22
04-02-2011, 04:15 PM
this yr. not including pitchers.

Cargo
Votto
Miggy
Jose Bautista
hamilton

Jack of Blades
04-02-2011, 04:45 PM
this yr. not including pitchers.

Cargo
Votto
Miggy
Jose Bautista
hamilton

Replace Cargo and Bautista with maybe Hanley and Mauer and I would agree. I don't expect Cargo to repeat what he did last year and I think Bautista is just a crap shoot because I have no idea what to expect from him.

stejay
04-02-2011, 05:40 PM
1. Pujols
2. Votto
3. Cabrera
4. Hamilton
5. Car-Go

With Braun, Tulo, Cano, Longoria and Teixeira missing out just

bosox3431
04-02-2011, 06:08 PM
According to WAR, Evan Longoria was the best player in the AL last year, so, so much for WAR.

And that why I used multiple years, not just one.