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View Full Version : Does Jose Bautista Use Steroids?



sox04rR
09-28-2010, 11:39 PM
my friend thinks he didnt use anything, i keep telling him he did but he keeps arguing with me.. thoughts???

Lincecum4CY
09-29-2010, 12:30 AM
nope. not with the drug testing they do today its impossible to get by. and im sure mlb tested him for everything possible when they see some alarming numbers.

koreancabbage
09-29-2010, 01:33 AM
Bria Roberts took steroids so its possible Bautista did lol.

well, it didn't help Roberts very much via homeruns did it?

he must've thought he was using roids. he isn't bigger is he as well huh?

stupidmop
09-29-2010, 02:10 AM
I don't think it's fair to accuse someone of something very egregious like this when the only evidence you have is that he is having a career year.

Pride
09-29-2010, 02:19 AM
Isn't there already a Bautista steroid thread? In any case, steroid is tested, but HGH isn't. So that's the only thing Bautista could have really taken if he ever did.

Sadds The Gr8
09-29-2010, 02:21 AM
i'm scared that he does because i just dont trust baseball players anymore, but i hope not.

WindyCityFlyer
09-29-2010, 02:24 AM
Isn't there already a Bautista steroid thread? In any case, steroid is tested, but HGH isn't. So that's the only thing Bautista could have really taken if he ever did.

Sadly, not in the last month. Gotta let these people get these assumptions out of their system.

GoatMilk
09-29-2010, 02:39 AM
MLB doesnt test for HGH

StealingSigns
09-29-2010, 03:49 AM
Heaven forbid we enjoy one of the feel good stories of 2010...

Jilly Bohnson
09-29-2010, 04:00 AM
To anyone who thinks steroids can take you from a 15-20 homer hitter to a 50+ homer hitter, please never have children.

Manatoo
09-29-2010, 04:54 AM
nope. not with the drug testing they do today its impossible to get by. and im sure mlb tested him for everything possible when they see some alarming numbers.

I don't think there is enough facepalms in the world for this statement.


MLB's drug testing is a joke.

McJoe
09-29-2010, 05:34 AM
Its kind of sad that you have a guy who finally has a big season and all of a sudden its steroids. It sucks that this is what the MLB has come to. I understand the thought that people think he might be juicing but he's not and its not possible.

Since September 1st 2009 he has hit 62 home runs in 766 at bats.
Before that he hit 49 home runs in 1645 major league at bats and 52 home runs in 1471 minor league at bats.
Bautista has also hit EVERY SINGLE ONE of his 52 home runs this season to left or left center, he's a dead pull hitter.

I dont know how other people think steroids work but they aren't magic juice. You dont take them one and all of a sudden your a ****ing tank and you hit everything out of the park. You have to work out and eat right with it and so on and so forth. It would also show up rather slowly not like flip a switch and bam. Maybe he was blessed by some voodoo preistess to become a home run hitting machine but its not steroids.

JWalk126
09-29-2010, 06:08 AM
I don't think there is enough facepalms in the world for this statement.


MLB's drug testing is a joke.

In other words: Maybe.

Manatoo
09-29-2010, 06:30 AM
In other words: Maybe.

In other words: If steroids makes a fringe starter become one of the 5 most valuable players in the AL why hasn't Ronny Paulino hit 52 HR's or ever had a SLG over .423? Or countless other mediocre players that have been caught juicing?

Valleyfella
09-29-2010, 07:34 AM
Bautista may be doping, but I doubt it. First, unlike other obvious juicers, his physique hasn't changed. Second, no steroid in the world is going to turn you from a 15 a year guy to a 55 a year guy. McGwire, Bonds and Sosa were hitting 40+ a year before their physiques changed. The steroids increased their output by about 25-30%, not 400%.

Pinstripe pride
09-29-2010, 08:33 AM
why can't people give him the benifit of the doubt. no one has any idea but him if he took roids, so why bring it up. why can;'t we assume its ajust a good story from 2010 instead of having to cheapen it for no reason. what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty

Rylinkus
09-29-2010, 08:52 AM
To anyone who thinks steroids can take you from a 15-20 homer hitter to a 50+ homer hitter, please never have children.

It worked for Brady Anderson


why can't people give him the benifit of the doubt. no one has any idea but him if he took roids, so why bring it up. why can;'t we assume its ajust a good story from 2010 instead of having to cheapen it for no reason. what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty

These are the accusations the MLB has brought on itself. By letting the problem get out of hand and not dealing with it there's a shadow of doubt over almost any impressive feat these days.

pebloemer
09-29-2010, 09:04 AM
Loaded question that no one has the answer to.

All people can talk about with this question is:

a) state of public perception of the MLB and steroid use
b) quality of drug testing in the league
c) recent history of steroid use in the steroid age

No one can answer the question you are asking in this thread.

ccugrad1
09-29-2010, 09:22 AM
I think it is a legitimate question to ask no doubt. Before this year, his top HR and RBI numbers were 16 and 63. And now all of a sudden he is up to 52 and 119?

Does make you wonder!

Gunzito22
09-29-2010, 09:24 AM
if we can 'speculate' that A-Rods decline is steroids based and not age/injury based (yeah, most of you commented there, too), then we sure as hell can speculate on how Bautista has become a slugger all of the sudden...

Bob_at_york
09-29-2010, 09:41 AM
If he is doing some new steroid that is un-detectable then why is nobody else using it? Or maybe I should change that question: Why is there no evidence of any one else suddenly hitting more homers?

miller74
09-29-2010, 09:48 AM
my friend thinks he didnt use anything, i keep telling him he did but he keeps arguing with me.. thoughts???

Strong argument on ur part, hes never hit this many before, and he plays in Toronto, yup work for me must be on steroids

Twitchy
09-29-2010, 10:10 AM
Does Josh Hamilton use steroids? He's never hit this well before. And steroids lead to injuries. Hamilton is injured now. Coincidence?

Now, I'm not saying Hamilton uses steroids. I'm just asking, does anybody else think he's using?

We can play this game with anybody.

Bob_at_york
09-29-2010, 10:15 AM
Does Josh Hamilton use steroids? He's never hit this well before. And steroids lead to injuries. Hamilton is injured now. Coincidence?

Now, I'm not saying Hamilton uses steroids. I'm just asking, does anybody else think he's using?

We can play this game with anybody.

Even John McDonald!

ritz
09-29-2010, 10:18 AM
This thread is funny. I heard a couple of morons accuse David Wright of using steroids prior to '09 and that he "obviously stopped taking them" resulting in only 10HRs last season.

I guess he's back on them. :rolleyes:

I personally love watcing Bautista hit bombs. Especially the one where he looked EXTREMELY pissed a while back.

Oh and I just found this: http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/08/24/altered-swing-mechanics-key-to-jose-bautistas-home-run-binge/

I don't know how big of a change he made, but obviously it's working. Didn't Aaron Hill do the same thing last year? Maybe the hitting coach deserves some recognition up there in Toronto. I don't follow the Blue Jays, so I don't know much about the hitting coach.

CostanzaNumba0
09-29-2010, 10:19 AM
To anyone who thinks steroids can take you from a 15-20 homer hitter to a 50+ homer hitter, please never have children.

See Brady Anderson and the '99 and '00 seasons for ivan rodriguez before you make outrageous statements like that

Pierzynski4Prez
09-29-2010, 10:20 AM
I would like to think that everybody today is clean.

Rylinkus
09-29-2010, 10:23 AM
Does Josh Hamilton use steroids? He's never hit this well before. And steroids lead to injuries. Hamilton is injured now. Coincidence?

Now, I'm not saying Hamilton uses steroids. I'm just asking, does anybody else think he's using?

We can play this game with anybody.

Bautista has the largest increase in HRs from one year to the next in MLB history. The jump in Hamilton's performance isn't nearly as absurd. He's shown the ability to post very respectable #s before. This is the first time in Bautista's career that he's shown this type of offensive firepower.

pollox
09-29-2010, 10:24 AM
See Brady Anderson and the '99 and '00 seasons for ivan rodriguez before you make outrageous statements like that


you think the day he first injected all the sudden he started going on a tear!? he started this all the sudden 3/4 through the season last year

its not some miracle drug that flicks like a switch.

if someone were to better themselves in baseball from steroids it would be gradual

for instance: season 1 on steroids: 20 hr
season 2: 25
season 3: 32

NOT all of the sudden in the middle of a _____ing season

i dont know how this debate even still continutes, im assuming a lot of it has to do with age of psd'ers, knowing nothing about anabolic steroids

pollox
09-29-2010, 10:26 AM
Does Josh Hamilton use steroids? He's never hit this well before. And steroids lead to injuries. Hamilton is injured now. Coincidence?

Now, I'm not saying Hamilton uses steroids. I'm just asking, does anybody else think he's using?

We can play this game with anybody.

please, link me ANYWHERE on the internet that says steroids lead to injuries

because in reality, they do the opposite! they boost your immune system as well as repair muscle much faster

thats right, REPAIR!

mods need to start banning people for making uneducated posts and assumptions

miller74
09-29-2010, 10:31 AM
please, link me ANYWHERE on the internet that says steroids lead to injuries

because in reality, they do the opposite! they boost your immune system as well as repair muscle much faster

thats right, REPAIR!

mods need to start banning people for making uneducated posts and assumptions

You mean the creator of this thread?

pacofunk64
09-29-2010, 10:32 AM
please, link me ANYWHERE on the internet that says steroids lead to injuries

because in reality, they do the opposite! they boost your immune system as well as repair muscle much faster

thats right, REPAIR!

mods need to start banning people for making uneducated posts and assumptions

You are right..most of the time players will use Steroids to recover from injury. I think Steroids over long term use could likely cause injury but unlikely.

pacofunk64
09-29-2010, 10:32 AM
Bautista is also not using steroids. If anything it would be HGH because MLB can't test for that yet.

Twitchy
09-29-2010, 10:37 AM
please, link me ANYWHERE on the internet that says steroids lead to injuries

because in reality, they do the opposite! they boost your immune system as well as repair muscle much faster

thats right, REPAIR!

mods need to start banning people for making uneducated posts and assumptions

Pot, meet kettle. (http://ezinearticles.com/?Human-Growth-Hormone-to-Hasten-Healing-of-Injuries---HGH-Myth?&id=2299905)


What studies have shown is the fact that HGH does have an effect on bone tissue and faster healing in cases of fractures. The problem faced here is that there have been no concrete clinical studies presented to prove long term effectiveness and possible side-effects. Furthermore, these athletes also think that taking HGH can increase their energy while at the same time, they think that they are able to work harder than ever, and still recuperate faster. Again, no concrete tests have shown that this is actually true. It is all the fruit of marketing strategies with the aim of selling the most HGH products humanely possible.

This fact opens these athletes to the risks of excessive use of HGH, and makes them more susceptible to illnesses that they were in no danger of developing before they tried taking it. These include illnesses such as acromelagy which is suffering from excessive amounts of growth hormone. There is also a higher risk of developing diabetes, certain types of cancers, swelling and joint pains, edema and a host of other complications that could certainly be life threatening.

And this is just for taking the first Google link I saw.

I thought that it was pretty widely known that steroid users often have their bodies break down earlier than they should have because of injuries. McGwire among others being the prime example.

pollox
09-29-2010, 10:51 AM
well done, round of applause for this guy!

you missed one thing though, STEROIDS

hgh and anabolic steroids are two totally different things

CostanzaNumba0
09-29-2010, 10:59 AM
you think the day he first injected all the sudden he started going on a tear!? he started this all the sudden 3/4 through the season last year

its not some miracle drug that flicks like a switch.

if someone were to better themselves in baseball from steroids it would be gradual

for instance: season 1 on steroids: 20 hr
season 2: 25
season 3: 32

NOT all of the sudden in the middle of a _____ing season

i dont know how this debate even still continutes, im assuming a lot of it has to do with age of psd'ers, knowing nothing about anabolic steroids

age? what? how old are you? I'm in my mid 20's what does that mean? and you are wrong, one off season of cycling makes a gigantic difference, like bonds going from 49 to 73

pollox
09-29-2010, 11:07 AM
age? what? how old are you? I'm in my mid 20's what does that mean? and you are wrong, one off season of cycling makes a gigantic difference, like bonds going from 49 to 73

are u kidding me, bonds was most likely juicing his whole career

im 24, with lots of experience and knowledge regarding AAS... unlike 95% of the posters here, im an avid bodybuilder as well as blue jays/baseball fan

and lets just pretend youre right about bonds, which you definitely arent, its still over the course of an OFFSEASON. ... you forget bautista did this DURING the season

WPG_LAF_DR#1
09-29-2010, 11:13 AM
NO....

No. .. Dominican Republic fans waited a long time that Bautista did an all-star season.

280/30/100 is possible for him. But the Jays' stadium is way too small. That helped.

Jilly Bohnson
09-29-2010, 11:16 AM
It worked for Brady Anderson



These are the accusations the MLB has brought on itself. By letting the problem get out of hand and not dealing with it there's a shadow of doubt over almost any impressive feat these days.


See Brady Anderson and the '99 and '00 seasons for ivan rodriguez before you make outrageous statements like that

Guys, Brady Anderson hurts your point, he's not evidence that you're right. It's moronic to think that Brady Anderson was just a product of steroids. If his increase was all or even mostly due to steroids, then he wouldn't have stopped after one year. No one in their right mind would go "Hmmmm, I was an average player before these things, and now I'm a borderline MVP, but I think I'm going to stop." Brady Anderson is pretty much exhibit A in the "Weird, ****ed up flukes occasionally happen" case.

CAIN=FUTURE
09-29-2010, 11:22 AM
Steroids... the last thing I want to talk about in the playoff hunt.

FlakeyFool
09-29-2010, 11:35 AM
hes going to hit atleast 30 homers next season

Shark
09-29-2010, 11:48 AM
To anyone who thinks steroids can take you from a 15-20 homer hitter to a 50+ homer hitter, please never have children.

Lol definitely this x2.

On a side note, if you take steroids or HGH, you would look bigger. Please find an old picture of him and look at his current self, he is the exact same thing. He is hitting in Toronto, he has adjusted his swing, the hitting coach has helped them all(unfortunately not their averages) but with their homeruns.

Look at these numbers, people need to understand the ballpark they are hitting in also helps them A lot
Jose Bautista - 52

Vernon Wells - 31

Aaron Hill - 25 (missed some time in the early season)

Adam Lind - 22

Lyle Overbay - 20

John Buck - 19 (only 393 AB)

Edwin Encarnacion - 16 (only 318 AB)


Obviously Bautista has a lot more then the other guys, but have u watched the guy play? have u seen how quick his swing is? have u seen the adjustments he has made? have u seen the bombs he has hit, some are straight line drives over the fence, some are just monsters.


Dont be quick to judge. Enjoy the game and just let the guy have his fun

GeronimoSon
09-29-2010, 11:51 AM
After reading the initial thread posting followed by the inane and uneducated remarks regarding the benefits and caveats to the use of performance enhancing drugs.. there can only be one...

and only one..


not two..


not perhaps..


not maybe...


not then but not now..


The claimant (the person who is claiming that Bautista used steroids) is without a doubt using this "hot button issue" to disrespect the efforts of a professional baseball player having a tremendous season.

Otherwise.. How about an example: THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT for the first 14 YEARS of DEREK JETER's career as a NEW YORK YANKEE, he HAD TO USE PED's, otherwise, there is no explanation for the year he's having in 2010..

So?.. where is the evidence? where is the due process?


Gone!.. like a fart in the wind... but the smell still lingers... They smell because they are using the spector of PED's to disrespect the players and their efforts...

Madtown22
09-29-2010, 11:56 AM
Sucks that a guy figures out his swing and has a great year and everyone cries roids. Thats what baseball has come to. I would have to assume that MLB has kept a close eye on him this year with his added power. I hope he isn't it is a good story. We will see if he can do it again next year or if it was a fluke.

Rylinkus
09-29-2010, 11:57 AM
Lol definitely this x2.

On a side note, if you take steroids or HGH, you would look bigger. Please find an old picture of him and look at his current self, he is the exact same thing. He is hitting in Toronto, he has adjusted his swing, the hitting coach has helped them all(unfortunately not their averages) but with their homeruns.



This is one of the fallacies about steroids that really bothers me. If the eyeball test worked as a legitimate test, there wouldn't be a need for testing. But we know that guys like Alex Sanchez and Matt Lawton would have passed the eyeball test, yet they didn't pass the actual test.

Slim755
09-29-2010, 12:37 PM
This thread is awful...poor guy has a huge power year and everyone gets on his case. Sure baseball was tainted but give the guy a freakin break.

lRocco
09-29-2010, 12:56 PM
I have seen the home run totals and have wondered, in todays era how can you not. The problem is no matter how suspiciouse it looks it is reckless to accuse. Take Roger Clemens, everyone swears he took something and his hall of fame chances are gone. he was never proven to take them and is still fighting today. Lets not put other players in that situation till there is some shread of evidance that can hold up. That being said, MLB is just as dirty as the players and have a vested interest in there succsess. read this artical, it will show how baseball circumvents the doping test and gives these players a leagle option to dope. So the question must be asked, if not hgh and steriods whats the drug of choice. read this artical and share your views.

http://www.additudemag.com/addnews/47/3178.html

Koosman36
09-29-2010, 02:15 PM
With all the scruitny and testing you think he would get passed the test. I think you owe the guy a apology for stating he is cheating. If he is cheating then alot of guys are.

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 02:24 PM
My God, are you guys not tired of these types of threads yet?

No, unless you can actually prove it, no, he doesn't do roids.

He dramatically changed his swing at the end of last year, he hit a ton in sept last year, this off-season worked on that new swing, came out in spring training and stuck with it.

he also doesn't hit any balls to the right of center...he pulls them all, it's a new swing, he is the same size.....get off the guy, surely someone in this country can have new found success without a bunch of overly cynical guys questioning everything they do.

Rylinkus
09-29-2010, 02:29 PM
Recent MLB has given us every reason to be skeptical. And now every time there is a feel good story, this will be a legitimate question. And some times, it's very legitimate. (Ankiel for example). Now certainly it's possible that he didn't use steroids. And that would be an amazing story. But there is a level of uncertainty to it. And refusing to accept that seems very naive. And then you can throw in the ridiculous arguments. Testing has proven him clean. Which only proves that he hasn't tested positive of the drugs they're capable of testing for and do test for. Or even better, he's clean base on his size. I'm sorry, I am cynical about these types of things. There isn't a player in baseball that I would be shocked to learn was on something.

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 02:31 PM
Am I the only person in america that believes that baseball has handled a majority of these issues already? Just because the media gets a hold of some stories, or some idiot writers decides to write that it must have happened, does not mean it did.

Would you guys be saying any of this if Bautista had hit 42? or had gotten hurt in August?

I would hate to live in a world so skeptical

Rylinkus
09-29-2010, 02:38 PM
Am I the only person in america that believes that baseball has handled a majority of these issues already? Just because the media gets a hold of some stories, or some idiot writers decides to write that it must have happened, does not mean it did.

Would you guys be saying any of this if Bautista had hit 42? or had gotten hurt in August?

I would hate to live in a world so skeptical

It's not the number. It's just the sudden increase in performance of a guy who was essentially an after thought in the baseball world before this season. And while baseball has handled some of it we do know that testing always lags development of things of this nature. And they don't even test for HGH yet. So while there's more reason to be confident today than a few years ago, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that he's using something.

Valleyfella
09-29-2010, 02:40 PM
If having an amazing breakout season is the yardstick for steroid use, why aren't we asking the same question about Ubaldo Jimenez?

Rylinkus
09-29-2010, 02:44 PM
If having an amazing breakout season is the yardstick for steroid use, why aren't we asking the same question about Ubaldo Jimenez?

It's not the breakout season. It's the breakout season at 29. How many other hitters don't put it together until they're almost 30 and then have such a prolific jump in offense?

NYKNYGNYY
09-29-2010, 02:44 PM
who knows anymore theres always gonna be questions as soon as someone has a break out year, and im sure jose understands this, mcgwire, bonds, clemens, canseco....

NYKNYGNYY
09-29-2010, 02:45 PM
http://www.baseballssteroidera.com/

check that out

sep11ie
09-29-2010, 02:45 PM
Theres been like 10 of these threads before.

1908_Cubs
09-29-2010, 02:50 PM
If having an amazing breakout season is the yardstick for steroid use, why aren't we asking the same question about Ubaldo Jimenez?

Because Ubaldo Jimenez:

1) is 26 years old, not 29
2) Has gone from "pretty good pitcher" to "excellent pitcher", not "slightly below average" to "leading MLB in home runs"
3) Had been on a steady incline over the last 4 years

Jose Bautista is none of those. He's 29. He's been mediocre at best throughout his career, then, all of a sudden, went from 16 home run power to 50 home run power. Ubaldo didn't go from 88 mph fastball to 96mph fastball, his fastball is about the same. And actually, outside of ERA, Ubaldo's numbers are almost mirror images of what he's done, similar walk numbers, similar K numbers....even similar HR allowed numbers. Bautista is night and day.

I fully believe Jose Bautista will never repeat these numbers. Whether it's steroids, PED's, human growth hormones....who's to say. The discussion is quite merited, however, since this season screams "BRADY ANDERSON".

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 02:53 PM
It's not the number. It's just the sudden increase in performance of a guy who was essentially an after thought in the baseball world before this season. And while baseball has handled some of it we do know that testing always lags development of things of this nature. And they don't even test for HGH yet. So while there's more reason to be confident today than a few years ago, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that he's using something.

so why didn't you guys do this when Cliff Lee came out of nowhere?

Double_R
09-29-2010, 02:55 PM
There is definitely room for the discussion, the jump is dramatic and not to mention, baseball has given us no reason to think otherwise. Now I am a fan of innocent until proven guilty, but if you told a casual fan that he had never hit over 20 and now he has hit over 50, they would automatically think roids, so why shouldn't people that know the game and know how insane of a jump that is think the same way. I'm sorry, but pull hitter or not, it is an enormous jump that is unprecedented, so why question the impossible until now.

Double_R
09-29-2010, 03:01 PM
so why didn't you guys do this when Cliff Lee came out of nowhere?

Jeffy, I know you're a Cards fan, but I can't back this one...

Cliff Lee in his second real season, was 18-5 with a 3.79 era, when he was 26, then he had a 14-11, 4.4 era, then he was hurt, then came the cy young... there were signs that he had good stuff... not to mention, you should know this better than most that if you have some good coaching(look at what Dave Duncan does for some guys) and change a few little things with your mechanics, then you can be very effective

North Yorker
09-29-2010, 03:02 PM
There is definitely room for the discussion, the jump is dramatic and not to mention, baseball has given us no reason to think otherwise. Now I am a fan of innocent until proven guilty, but if you told a casual fan that he had never hit over 20 and now he has hit over 50, they would automatically think roids, so why shouldn't people that know the game and know how insane of a jump that is think the same way. I'm sorry, but pull hitter or not, it is an enormous jump that is unprecedented, so why question the impossible until now.

It started last year though, when he hit 10 HR's in September. This was after the Jays got rid of Scott Rolen and Alex Rios so that Bautista could play everyday.

Ever since he was a full time player for the Jays he has been hitting HRs pretty much. Add in the fact that the whole team is hitting HRs (coach's philosophy), the stadium they play in, improved bat speed and approach,etc.

People not familiar with all the factors just take the easy way out and assume PEDs.

Double_R
09-29-2010, 03:07 PM
It started last year though, when he hit 10 HR's in September. This was after the Jays got rid of Scott Rolen and Alex Rios so that Bautista could play everyday.

Ever since he was a full time player for the Jays he has been hitting HRs pretty much. Add in the fact that the whole team is hitting HRs (coach's philosophy), the stadium they play in, improved bat speed and approach,etc.

People not familiar with all the factors just take the easy way out and assume PEDs.

I'm not saying that he has or hasn't, but you are a fool to think that it is not a valid question... I know there are many factors that can up your HR total, but like I stated before, he didn't just up it a little, he blew it away...

When you are not known for being a HR hitter, then you lead both leagues in HR, that is gonna raise some questions.

badinger7
09-29-2010, 03:09 PM
Anyone who has legitimately been around steroids or used them would be able to tell you that you do not just become a 50 hr hitter after any amount of cycles. If you are a great baseball player before you are great after.. if you suck then you suck after. There is a natural talent and gift that the great ones have that ped's cannot give you. So lets enjoy this feel good story of 2010

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 03:12 PM
It's not the breakout season. It's the breakout season at 29. How many other hitters don't put it together until they're almost 30 and then have such a prolific jump in offense?

Again, cliff Lee, and a ton of other performers.

It is awful evidence to assume a steroid user just because they breakout at a later age.

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 03:15 PM
Jeffy, I know you're a Cards fan, but I can't back this one...

Cliff Lee in his second real season, was 18-5 with a 3.79 era, when he was 26, then he had a 14-11, 4.4 era, then he was hurt, then came the cy young... there were signs that he had good stuff... not to mention, you should know this better than most that if you have some good coaching(look at what Dave Duncan does for some guys) and change a few little things with your mechanics, then you can be very effective

Weird, because Bautista had signs that he could hit for legendary power, he hit 15-16 homers in 400 plus p.a. which means he is very capable of hitting home runs...to see a surge of them because he 'changed his mechanics' and had a new hitting coach is easily possible.

It is not far fetched to say that Bautista's power came from a change in his mechanics.

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 03:16 PM
and instead of Lee, why don't we use Chris Carpenter? I can mention a ton of names

Rylinkus
09-29-2010, 03:17 PM
Again, cliff Lee, and a ton of other performers.

It is awful evidence to assume a steroid user just because they breakout at a later age.

Lee had seen success earlier. And pitchers sometimes develop later. If the best examples of guys developing late you can come up with are pitchers, you're really comparing apples to oranges.

North Yorker
09-29-2010, 03:17 PM
I'm not saying that he has or hasn't, but you are a fool to think that it is not a valid question... I know there are many factors that can up your HR total, but like I stated before, he didn't just up it a little, he blew it away...

When you are not known for being a HR hitter, then you lead both leagues in HR, that is gonna raise some questions.

I should have clarified, Im not an expert but he has incorporated a leg kick into his swing (kinda like Hanley). Im not sure but it seems to help him get through the ball more consistently.

He may have always had the bat speed, just didnt know how to use it effectively yet.

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 03:19 PM
I'm not saying that he has or hasn't, but you are a fool to think that it is not a valid question... I know there are many factors that can up your HR total, but like I stated before, he didn't just up it a little, he blew it away...

When you are not known for being a HR hitter, then you lead both leagues in HR, that is gonna raise some questions.

he is quite similar to Marcus Thames.

If Thames got to play every day, I bet he would mash 40 homers...the same could have been said about Bautista before this season...when the guy gets 400 plate appearances, he will hit near 20 homers...so let him play everyday, and assume he will hit at least 30...50 could be a stretch, but is certainly possible. And a change in mechanics can easily explain the rest of it.

Rylinkus
09-29-2010, 03:28 PM
he is quite similar to Marcus Thames.

If Thames got to play every day, I bet he would mash 40 homers...the same could have been said about Bautista before this season...when the guy gets 400 plate appearances, he will hit near 20 homers...so let him play everyday, and assume he will hit at least 30...50 could be a stretch, but is certainly possible. And a change in mechanics can easily explain the rest of it.

Marcus has roughly the same ABs/HR rate. Bautista's has skyrocketted.

amoore87
09-29-2010, 03:50 PM
who knows?? they're all taking the best 'legal' stuff anyway so who cares

ShaqShoes
09-29-2010, 03:55 PM
Who gives a ****. He's going to be a one season wonder anyways. And this is coming from a Jays fan.

FlakeyFool
09-29-2010, 03:58 PM
alot of people give a ****. Including Jays fans

BluejaysFan08
09-29-2010, 04:01 PM
Look at the size of him. Close thread. No way.

CostanzaNumba0
09-29-2010, 04:02 PM
Look at the size of him. Close thread. No way.

how big was brian roberts again? how about chuck knoblauch? yea...

CostanzaNumba0
09-29-2010, 04:15 PM
are u kidding me, bonds was most likely juicing his whole career

im 24, with lots of experience and knowledge regarding AAS... unlike 95% of the posters here, im an avid bodybuilder as well as blue jays/baseball fan

and lets just pretend youre right about bonds, which you definitely arent, its still over the course of an OFFSEASON. ... you forget bautista did this DURING the season

completely wrong, if you were as big a fan as you claim you would've read game of shadows and known that bonds started experimenting after the summer of '98 when McGwire and Sosa went nuts with the homeruns,, I'll take the journalistic integrity of Lance Williams and Mark Fainaru-Wada over the baseless claims of a supposed "bodybuilder" and blue jays fan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Shadows

reading is fundamental

Uncle Sam
09-29-2010, 04:28 PM
He must be.. 14 HRS to 52? Please... If not he's useing some kind of substance.

MaHaRaJaH
09-29-2010, 04:30 PM
It started last year though, when he hit 10 HR's in September. This was after the Jays got rid of Scott Rolen and Alex Rios so that Bautista could play everyday.

Ever since he was a full time player for the Jays he has been hitting HRs pretty much. Add in the fact that the whole team is hitting HRs (coach's philosophy), the stadium they play in, improved bat speed and approach,etc.

People not familiar with all the factors just take the easy way out and assume PEDs.
Only because they are self-proclaimed steroids experts, even though they don't understand it.

I'm not saying that he has or hasn't, but you are a fool to think that it is not a valid question... I know there are many factors that can up your HR total, but like I stated before, he didn't just up it a little, he blew it away...

When you are not known for being a HR hitter, then you lead both leagues in HR, that is gonna raise some questions.
Why? This isn't the first time it has happened and it certainly wont be the last.

jon32
09-29-2010, 04:32 PM
He eats spinach before each at-bat, it gives you that extra muscle at the time to hit the ball over the wall

dtmagnet
09-29-2010, 04:32 PM
Bautista has the largest increase in HRs from one year to the next in MLB history. The jump in Hamilton's performance isn't nearly as absurd. He's shown the ability to post very respectable #s before. This is the first time in Bautista's career that he's shown this type of offensive firepower.

This is the first time in his career that he played every day. Please stop your useless bashing.

Bob_at_york
09-29-2010, 04:34 PM
This is the first time in his career that he played every day. Please stop your useless bashing.
Correction: This is the first time he has stayed healthy all season. He has been an every-day player before this season.

Uncle Sam
09-29-2010, 04:37 PM
Cmon people... Who raises their home runs by 70% from 15 to 52?! A steroid baby, that's who. I wouldn't be shocked if he is takeing a substance, nor would I be if he isn't, anythings possible.

North Yorker
09-29-2010, 04:43 PM
Cmon people... Who raises their home runs by 70% from 15 to 52?! A steroid baby, that's who. I wouldn't be shocked if he is takeing a substance, nor would I be if he isn't, anythings possible.

So hitting 10 HRs last September doesnt hint to the fact that he could be in for a big year.

It just didnt magically happen this season. Something obviously *clicked* with him.

Rylinkus
09-29-2010, 04:45 PM
Why? This isn't the first time it has happened and it certainly wont be the last.

Since the increase in HRs Bautista hit from last season to this season is the largest in MLB history, yes it is the first time it's happened.

And while consistent playing time may certainly help a player keep a consistent swing, those acting like hes the same guy, but merely gets more attempts are simply wrong. This guy went from hitting a HR once every 25 ABs to once every 10. So clearly something has changed.

Now it very well might be nothing more than his swing. But I do think it's a very justifiable question to ask. And I think it's really sad people are using his size or the fact that he's never tested positive as a way to eliminate any possibility he's on something.

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 04:50 PM
Lee had seen success earlier. And pitchers sometimes develop later. If the best examples of guys developing late you can come up with are pitchers, you're really comparing apples to oranges.

Carlos Pena
Ryan Ludwick
David Ortiz
Luis Gonzalez
Ellis Burks


I can do this all night if you want....

Pena, Ludwick and Ortiz all had break out seasons in their age 29 season like Bautista did (Ortiz was at age 28 season)...and this is just in the last decade naming just three players....Want me to include other decades? What Bautista has done may be rare, but it by no means is exclusive to baseball history. Every couple of years you will see a player have a breakout season later in their careers.

Hell, most shortstops develop into better hitters later in their careers, Vizqual, Ozzie, and Moliter to name a few.

It is ridiculous to automatically assume roids or HGH just because Bautista has a high number of home runs in a season where he finally gets to play more on a team full of guys that swing for the fences.

I can literally name a player almost every single season that has a breakout season past the age of 27, maybe not as extreme as Bautista's, but certainly breakout caliber.

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 04:53 PM
who knows?? they're all taking the best 'legal' stuff anyway so who cares

Exactly!

the_jon
09-29-2010, 04:55 PM
Isn't there already a Bautista steroid thread? In any case, steroid is tested, but HGH isn't. So that's the only thing Bautista could have really taken if he ever did.
I'd like to be able to agree with you but I can't. It's very possible he could have taken steroids. Scientists are always coming out with new steroids designed to be undetectable. If he took something MLB hasn't found that would also account for the clean sheets.

I'd say more likely HGH was a factor if anything, but you definitely can't rule out steroids. For the record I believe Bautista is legit.

joshhorvath
09-29-2010, 04:56 PM
Oh ya, like Jose Bautista has the type of body that would be on Steriods LMAO!!! You have to know that Bautista would not be stupid enough to take steriods in this era, simply becasue, there gonna test him 1 every 2 weeks, ever since he got 30 HR they'bve been testing him. But to actually think he did Riods, wow your somethin, jsut cause a guys havin a career year, you just bash on him cause hes not on your favorite team. Trust me man, you may of deleted my other comment casue you couldnt handle it, but your friend is 100% right, there is no way he could've takin Riods, it simply does not look like it.

the_jon
09-29-2010, 05:07 PM
how big was brian roberts again? how about chuck knoblauch? yea...
Those guys are ****ing midgets.... and Knoblauch is/was more jacked than Bautista....

MaHaRaJaH
09-29-2010, 05:33 PM
Since the increase in HRs Bautista hit from last season to this season is the largest in MLB history, yes it is the first time it's happened.

And while consistent playing time may certainly help a player keep a consistent swing, those acting like hes the same guy, but merely gets more attempts are simply wrong. This guy went from hitting a HR once every 25 ABs to once every 10. So clearly something has changed.

Now it very well might be nothing more than his swing. But I do think it's a very justifiable question to ask. And I think it's really sad people are using his size or the fact that he's never tested positive as a way to eliminate any possibility he's on something.

But he definitely is not the first to put up large power numbers from a small power-hitting career.
It could be just a change of mechanics. But where you're getting at is an assumption that PEDs do infact give you power to hit.

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 06:00 PM
Since the increase in HRs Bautista hit from last season to this season is the largest in MLB history, yes it is the first time it's happened.

And while consistent playing time may certainly help a player keep a consistent swing, those acting like hes the same guy, but merely gets more attempts are simply wrong. This guy went from hitting a HR once every 25 ABs to once every 10. So clearly something has changed.

Now it very well might be nothing more than his swing. But I do think it's a very justifiable question to ask. And I think it's really sad people are using his size or the fact that he's never tested positive as a way to eliminate any possibility he's on something.

Mark McGwire went from 0 to 49 his rookie season, it is NOT the first time this has happened, in fact, it isn't even close. I can answer more if you want...

And this isn't eliminating the possibility, it's when people assume he is on roids just because of a surge in power, it's ridiculous. It certainly is possible, but I am going to highly doubt it....innocent until proven guilty.

There certainly are a number of players that have increased their single season home run totals by 30 or more...

Add to it that Bautista didn't hit more than 4 until May, and he hit 10 in Sept of last year....

He also was considered a great talent all these years, and he was an under achiever.

Hell Brady Anderson went from 16 to 50 to 18

Jeffy25
09-29-2010, 06:02 PM
He must be.. 14 HRS to 52? Please... If not he's useing some kind of substance.

and you are proving this how?

It is these sorts of claims, they are asinine.

Jilly Bohnson
09-29-2010, 06:37 PM
Since the increase in HRs Bautista hit from last season to this season is the largest in MLB history, yes it is the first time it's happened.

And while consistent playing time may certainly help a player keep a consistent swing, those acting like hes the same guy, but merely gets more attempts are simply wrong. This guy went from hitting a HR once every 25 ABs to once every 10. So clearly something has changed.

Now it very well might be nothing more than his swing. But I do think it's a very justifiable question to ask. And I think it's really sad people are using his size or the fact that he's never tested positive as a way to eliminate any possibility he's on something.

Which makes it all the more unlikely that it's due to steroids, considering it is a far far far bigger jump than can be reasonably attributed to steroids.

Could Bautista be on steroids? Sure. Could he have just started this past winter? Sure. Could steroids explain a power spike even remotely that big? Hell no.

Jilly Bohnson
09-29-2010, 07:05 PM
Here, let's actually take a look at this logically, since that's somethign this topic has sorely lacked.

-From 2006-2009, when Bautista was actually a major league regular, he averaged 15 homers a year. However, he did it as a part time player. Over the 660 PA's he has this year, that extrapolates out to 20 homers a year.

-The Rogers Center has been crazy homer friendly this year. By ESPN's park factors, it's been 37.9% more homer-friendly than an average park this year, compared to PNC park, which was very unfriendly for homers while he was there, and also for some reason Rogers center was below average last year. So this year the park factor is +37.9, while the four years previous his parks were -13.5%. Hell, park factors alone probably took him to nearly a 30 homer hitter.

-He's been hitting WAY more fly balls this year, which is probably the effect of his mechanical changes. From 06-09 he hit about 45% of his balls in play in the air. This year it's been 55. That's enough to make him a 35-40 homer hitter.

So basically, if you put everything together, we're talking about a guy who, after getting out of Pittsburgh and making some mechanical changes, is probably closer to a true talent 35 homer guy than the 20 homer guy we thought. And it's not crazy for a guy like that to fluke his way into 50 homers. Both Cecil and Prince Fielder have done it. Bautista could very easily be doing it completely clean.

netsgiantsyanks
09-29-2010, 07:08 PM
lets just put it this way, if some of these simple minded dumbasses had jose bautista on their team they wouldnt be saying ****. they'd 99% be bragging about how he jumped from 15 to 52 homers.

Swishalicious
09-29-2010, 07:55 PM
This is a waste of time... no one knows for sure except Jose Bautista.

Are his numbers suspicious? of course, but that doesn't prove anything.

thawv
09-29-2010, 08:09 PM
my friend thinks he didnt use anything, i keep telling him he did but he keeps arguing with me.. thoughts???

Maybe not roids. But he's without a doubt using something. It's like the late 90's all over again. People can't be that closed minded to not see this. Can they?

Remember..........the users are always going to be ahead of the testers. You can't test for a roid that you have no knowledge about.

avrpatsfan
09-29-2010, 08:23 PM
nope. not with the drug testing they do today its impossible to get by. and im sure mlb tested him for everything possible when they see some alarming numbers.
/Thread. Why is this even a topic? Just give the guy some damn credit for improving his swing.

ReJo
09-29-2010, 08:37 PM
I think it's the ballpark in Toronto. The ball jumps especially for right handed hitters with a short porch and alleys in left field. Had he stayed in Pittsburgh he wouldn't have 50 home runs not even 40. Had he gone to San Diego he'd probably be looking at 20 or less home runs.
That and he is in his prime at the age of 29 and probably worked hard to improve in the offseason. I don't think steroids had anything to do with it.

eXpLiiCt
09-29-2010, 08:58 PM
If he was then wouldn't he be already caught

Gibby
09-29-2010, 09:32 PM
I think it's the ballpark in Toronto. The ball jumps especially for right handed hitters with a short porch and alleys in left field. Had he stayed in Pittsburgh he wouldn't have 50 home runs not even 40. Had he gone to San Diego he'd probably be looking at 20 or less home runs.
That and he is in his prime at the age of 29 and probably worked hard to improve in the offseason. I don't think steroids had anything to do with it.

328 is not short. and the power alleys are noth 375. Obviously its not the biggest but its not a small park. They are many more hitter friendly parks than the rogers center.

I dont know how you came stats of he will hit less than 40 in PNC and less than 20 in the padres park.

PS the park facors stat is a joke. 2009 roger center was considered a pitcher friendly park but this year they re hitter friendly park.

but i appreciate you sticking up for Bautista.

bagwell368
09-29-2010, 09:42 PM
To anyone who thinks steroids can take you from a 15-20 homer hitter to a 50+ homer hitter, please never have children.

Ever hear of Brady Anderson?

Maybe you shouldn't write in such definitive words when you don't know what the **** you are talking about.

Gibby
09-29-2010, 09:43 PM
Since the increase in HRs Bautista hit from last season to this season is the largest in MLB history, yes it is the first time it's happened.

And while consistent playing time may certainly help a player keep a consistent swing, those acting like hes the same guy, but merely gets more attempts are simply wrong. This guy went from hitting a HR once every 25 ABs to once every 10. So clearly something has changed.

Now it very well might be nothing more than his swing. But I do think it's a very justifiable question to ask. And I think it's really sad people are using his size or the fact that he's never tested positive as a way to eliminate any possibility he's on something.

why is it justifiable to ask that? No one knows if he took it. Its not like any poster here knows for sure. is it justifiable to accuse any player of taking PEDs? since its possible any player could have taken it.

bagwell368
09-29-2010, 09:46 PM
328 is not short. and the power alleys are noth 375. Obviously its not the biggest but its not a small park. They are many more hitter friendly parks than the rogers center.

I dont know how you came stats of he will hit less than 40 in PNC and less than 20 in the padres park.

PS the park facors stat is a joke. 2009 roger center was considered a pitcher friendly park but this year they re hitter friendly park.

but i appreciate you sticking up for Bautista.

Toronto is fairly neutral/average compared to other other parks.

If you paid attention you would see that use of single season park factors is generally frowned on. Go check the multi year stats instead.

Gibby
09-29-2010, 09:49 PM
Ever hear of Brady Anderson?

Maybe you shouldn't write in such definitive words when you don't know what the **** you are talking about.

has it ever been proven that brady anderson took steroids?

Gibby
09-29-2010, 09:53 PM
Toronto is fairly neutral/average compared to other other parks.

If you paid attention you would see that use of single season park factors is generally frowned on. Go check the multi year stats instead.

i was actually saying its neutral compared to other parks. dont know why arguing with me on that

ReJo
09-29-2010, 10:14 PM
328 is not short. and the power alleys are noth 375. Obviously its not the biggest but its not a small park. They are many more hitter friendly parks than the rogers center.

I dont know how you came stats of he will hit less than 40 in PNC and less than 20 in the padres park.

PS the park facors stat is a joke. 2009 roger center was considered a pitcher friendly park but this year they re hitter friendly park.

but i appreciate you sticking up for Bautista.

I don't know many of those stats but I know the ball jumps there especially for right handed hitters.

Russollini
09-29-2010, 10:34 PM
Can some one close and delete this thread...I am tired of the "Roid Rage"

Gibby
09-29-2010, 10:43 PM
I don't know many of those stats but I know the ball jumps there especially for right handed hitters.

no it doesnt. people just say that becuase jays are hitting alot hrs this year.


Can some one close and delete this thread...I am tired of the "Roid Rage"

agreed

heathonater
09-29-2010, 11:54 PM
with most of the great home run hitters found out to be taken roids or ped's, i dont think its unfair to question why a guy who never hit more than 15 homers is able to hit 50+ this year. he may be completely clean, but with the steroid era still relatively recent, questions will emerge about how legit his season was in terms of using ped's.

Mplsman
09-30-2010, 12:49 AM
Most unlikely he's not juicin.

Jeffy25
09-30-2010, 01:32 AM
Here, let's actually take a look at this logically, since that's somethign this topic has sorely lacked.

-From 2006-2009, when Bautista was actually a major league regular, he averaged 15 homers a year. However, he did it as a part time player. Over the 660 PA's he has this year, that extrapolates out to 20 homers a year.

-The Rogers Center has been crazy homer friendly this year. By ESPN's park factors, it's been 37.9% more homer-friendly than an average park this year, compared to PNC park, which was very unfriendly for homers while he was there, and also for some reason Rogers center was below average last year. So this year the park factor is +37.9, while the four years previous his parks were -13.5%. Hell, park factors alone probably took him to nearly a 30 homer hitter.

-He's been hitting WAY more fly balls this year, which is probably the effect of his mechanical changes. From 06-09 he hit about 45% of his balls in play in the air. This year it's been 55. That's enough to make him a 35-40 homer hitter.

So basically, if you put everything together, we're talking about a guy who, after getting out of Pittsburgh and making some mechanical changes, is probably closer to a true talent 35 homer guy than the 20 homer guy we thought. And it's not crazy for a guy like that to fluke his way into 50 homers. Both Cecil and Prince Fielder have done it. Bautista could very easily be doing it completely clean.

:clap:

Jeffy25
09-30-2010, 01:37 AM
Maybe not roids. But he's without a doubt using something. It's like the late 90's all over again. People can't be that closed minded to not see this. Can they?


My God, how ignorant of a statement can one make?

How the hell exactly is it obvious that he is using something? Because he hit a bunch of homers?

I can't keep coming to this thread, it is hurting my head. Anyone that completely backs this sort of thing by saying 'oh he has to be on something, look at all the dingers' I honestly have to argue what sort of a baseball fan are you, and why do you even bother to watch?

Baseball, the game where anything can happen, and yet you criticize when something amazing does happen....what the hell is wrong with you people?

As I said in another thread, if you haven't, watched Ken Burns 10th inning on PBS....or the re-runs now, if that doesn't change your mind, I have about 150,000 articles you need to read....why be a fan of something and completely criticize when someone succeeds? Don't be ignorant, but it isn't your place to judge, if he has done something he isn't allowed to, it is on major league baseball and the players association to fix it, not yours to criticize and bash...if you aren't enjoying the game, quite watching and following it, for the rest of us, please.

Jeffy25
09-30-2010, 01:39 AM
Can some one close and delete this thread...I am tired of the "Roid Rage"

Thank you, yes.

Mike Oxlong
09-30-2010, 01:58 AM
Jeffy you can muti qoute you know.

Jeffy25
09-30-2010, 02:48 AM
Jeffy you can muti qoute you know.

i know, I just comment as I read....I probably should save them in multiple windows and then comment, you are correct.

Also, to add to players that peaked this late in their careers....Jeff Kent, Darren Daulton, Mickey Tettelton (def him) to only name a few more...

sfattahian
09-30-2010, 03:06 AM
my friend thinks he didnt use anything, i keep telling him he did but he keeps arguing with me.. thoughts???

:facepalm: Does your friend still believe in Santa Claus? Has he seen his career numbers next to each other? Its highly embarressing.

Brady Anderson part deux.

sfattahian
09-30-2010, 03:10 AM
I can't believe people think he is on roids. You must be the same people that actually think OJ Simpson was guilty.

StealingSigns
09-30-2010, 03:21 AM
I can't believe people think he is on roids. You must be the same people that actually think OJ Simpson was guilty.
:confused:

2009mvp
09-30-2010, 03:25 AM
I can't believe people think he is on roids. You must be the same people that actually think OJ Simpson was guilty.

:laugh: ... :confused:

Either way, you win this thread.

R. Johnson#3
10-01-2010, 08:55 AM
He's not even 200 pounds.....

nstojic
10-01-2010, 09:01 AM
To anyone who thinks steroids can take you from a 15-20 homer hitter to a 50+ homer hitter, please never have children.

this...

read up on them, people...

DLMoney1
10-01-2010, 09:33 AM
I believe the chemists continue to be waaaay ahead of the testing. Contrary to some opinions on the forum, even 1 cycle of steroids/hgh will increase your strength and ability to recover from work-outs allowing you to build strength and stamina at ridiculous rates. And while I have not taken any, I have injected some of my more stupid friends who were cycling. (When you cycle, I do NOT mean riding a bike!) I watched their weight lifting amounts increase to levels that more often than not, their back would start to spasm as it was too much weight too soon. And to think that a player goes from 13/16 hrs in a best season to 54!!! in 1 year and NOT think of chemical enhancement would be naive at best! Think Brady Anderson, who later admitted to using enhancements. This is NOT from increased "pulling the ball"! Somethings getting pulled besides the ball!

Jeffy25
10-01-2010, 11:42 AM
To anyone who thinks steroids can take you from a 15-20 homer hitter to a 50+ homer hitter, please never have children.

:clap:

koreancabbage
10-01-2010, 02:05 PM
its all about skills and the swing. if you don't have any of that, you can't be more than 10-15 homerun kind of guy. Granted some of the aforementioned juicers were pretty skilled players as well.

Mike Oxlong
10-01-2010, 02:09 PM
:clap:

He was talking to you.

Jilly Bohnson
10-01-2010, 03:15 PM
Ever hear of Brady Anderson?

Maybe you shouldn't write in such definitive words when you don't know what the **** you are talking about.

I have. And I wrote a response about him earlier in this thread.


Guys, Brady Anderson hurts your point, he's not evidence that you're right. It's moronic to think that Brady Anderson was just a product of steroids. If his increase was all or even mostly due to steroids, then he wouldn't have stopped after one year. No one in their right mind would go "Hmmmm, I was an average player before these things, and now I'm a borderline MVP, but I think I'm going to stop." Brady Anderson is pretty much exhibit A in the "Weird, ****ed up flukes occasionally happen" case.

It just makes zero sense that Brady Anderson was a product of steorids. Or at least, if he was on steroids, that's no the primary factor in his crazy season. No one in their right mind would stop taking steroids after having the season he had if they were actually the reason he had so much success.

Not to mention this:

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/

Has a very well thought out and convincing argument that steroids do not have nearly that large of an impact on homerun totals. So maybe it's actually you who doesnt' know what the **** he's talking about.

Jeffy25
10-01-2010, 03:33 PM
He was talking to you.

1. I have a son
2. I don't believe he is/was on steroids
3. I don't believe steroids can take a player from 15 homer seasons to 50 magically

Mike Oxlong
10-01-2010, 03:48 PM
1. I have a son
2. I don't believe he is/was on steroids
3. I don't believe steroids can take a player from 15 homer seasons to 50 magically

I know you have a son and it's about time to take him out of your avatar. I can't look at it anymore.

baseballguy247
10-01-2010, 04:06 PM
he is a dead pull hitter swinging for the fence every time enjoy the ride. until there is hgh testing we will never know. Guys lets not accuse every player that does well that he is on the juice. he will not duplicate this next year 25-30 HR max

alexanderkeiths
10-01-2010, 04:21 PM
if he is on something he either must be the ONLY one in all of baseball...or maybe his stuff is the best...

I cant believe how many people are using the there is no doubt he is on something argument. At best say chances are 50/50. That means there is a doubt.

The difference between now and the Bonds steroid era is back then everyone knew and noone gave a ****. It was only after the records were broken that people started looking at it. Then everyone and there dog as coming forward saying this player and that player was on the juice with the fed ex receipt to prove it.

The scrutiny Bastista is under is incredible. I cant see how he could get away with it. Someone somewhere would know and for the right price or the fame they would come forward

alexanderkeiths
10-01-2010, 04:30 PM
also he bats 3rd in a lineup that protects him with a 30hr guy...2 guys close to 25 hrs...2 guys with 20...and one with 15 or so

i suspect he sees alot of fastballs to hit

Russollini
10-02-2010, 12:47 AM
also he bats 3rd in a lineup that protects him with a 30hr guy...2 guys close to 25 hrs...2 guys with 20...and one with 15 or so

i suspect he sees alot of fastballs to hit

Gees, didn't you know that Cito and his crew do roids together on Sundays! How is this thread still open. People need to realize when you hit a ball 350 and 349 is the wall, ok maybe roids helped with the extra foot (see Alex Sanchez), but when they go 400+ it does not matter what you did or did not take. If I took HGH or roids it would give me a damn sexy body, but I still am not going to hit HRs. Furthermore there certainly would be no long ball for the chics to dig!

Jeffy25
10-02-2010, 01:21 AM
I know you have a son and it's about time to take him out of your avatar. I can't look at it anymore.

what exactly is wrong with you?

You got issues man

Mike Oxlong
10-02-2010, 01:24 AM
what exactly is wrong with you?

You got issues man

You are my issue. I have never seen someone to go to such great extent to argue about if there should be a salary cap or not.

Jeffy25
10-02-2010, 01:27 AM
You are my issue. I have never seen someone to go to such great extent to argue about if there should be a salary cap or not.

and that has everything to do with my son being in my avatar?

Christ man, is this what you do on your friday nights?

Go out, find a girl

Mike Oxlong
10-02-2010, 01:30 AM
and that has everything to do with my son being in my avatar?

Christ man, is this what you do on your friday nights?

Go out, find a girl

I have already been out all day, nice try. We can argue in the other thread. By the way, check all your posts in every thread in this forum. Count them and then count mine. Is that what your life is like?

Jeffy25
10-02-2010, 01:40 AM
I have already been out all day, nice try. We can argue in the other thread. By the way, check all your posts in every thread in this forum. Count them and then count mine. Is that what your life is like?

I am home with my son for the evening so my wife can have a girls night out, I also worked a 16 hour day, which, while at work, I can get away and get online at times and I check this forum....I don't pick senseless fights with people over their avatar pictures about their kids

Mike Oxlong
10-02-2010, 01:44 AM
I am home with my son for the evening so my wife can have a girls night out, I also worked a 16 hour day, which, while at work, I can get away and get online at times and I check this forum....I don't pick senseless fights with people over their avatar pictures about their kids

Man, it really has nothing to do with your damn kid! Just switch it up every once in a while. If it has to be your kid choose a new picture something.

ATL#22
10-02-2010, 02:04 AM
I hope so! because i then i would still have a chance

mbarajas138
10-02-2010, 02:33 AM
Stop it!

Kakaroach
10-02-2010, 11:36 AM
Hasn't he passed like 4 tests this year or something? I'd say no he isn't. And weird stat, only 1 opposite field HR from him.

GeekInThePink
10-02-2010, 11:58 AM
Anyone who think he juices is ********. With all the testing they do on players these days, it would literally be impossible for him to be on steroids.

Plat
10-03-2010, 03:33 AM
Was that one douche seriously telling that other poster to take his son off as his profile picture? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

1-800-STFU
10-03-2010, 03:36 AM
Jeffy's avi makes me horny. Please dont take it away.

1-800-STFU
10-03-2010, 03:38 AM
and that has everything to do with my son being in my avatar?

Christ man, is this what you do on your friday nights?

Go out, find a girl

I always find it ironic when someone tells someone else to get a life over a internet forum.

We're all nerds here, lets just face that fact. No need to be so insecure.

Plat
10-03-2010, 03:38 AM
Jeffy's avi makes me horny. Please dont take it away.

http://purplejesus.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/chrishansen.jpg

BadnewzNiners
10-03-2010, 09:41 AM
I haven't seen much of bautista (west coast) but i hope his sudden surge in production is do to a new approach at the plate. one thing I've noticed is that he's looking fastball (20% increase on strikeouts) According to Frankie Pilliere, Bautista is moving his hands through the zone quicker, is starting his leg kick slightly sooner, and opening up on inside pitches. but at the same time he's been more successful at laying of breaking pitches. (100 walks, team high pitches per at bat) but these days who knows. For all we know he could of been juicing all along and this new approach was just what he needed.

obcha22
10-03-2010, 11:12 AM
please, link me ANYWHERE on the internet that says steroids lead to injuries

because in reality, they do the opposite! they boost your immune system as well as repair muscle much faster

thats right, REPAIR!

mods need to start banning people for making uneducated posts and assumptions

You my good sir are on point. Steroids are used in injury healing thousands of times a day. From little kids to 90 year olds. Cortisone. Steroids are in inhalers for asthma and our own bodies make and use them for building tissue and repair. The only injuries that can occur are ligament and tendon tear because of to great of a strength gain in too short a time and those structures don't strengthen at the same speed and become susceptible. Or you stick the needle into your arse too far and puncture something.

Funny steroid tidbit... Since you are adding excessive amounts of testosterone to your system (that you are not making), the male body reacts to counterbalance this effect how? By making more estrogen. You have to produce more estrogen than testosterone to counteract the testosterone chemically added. Which means that when taking steroids your natural bodily hormonal production is shifted to producing more of the female hormone. And when you stop taking them, it takes a while to come back to normal. Which makes you closer hormonally to a woman than a man. (i.e. Man boobs, shrinking nads)
To any doubters, think about the tests they run for steroid usage. Since there are so many masking products for the drug itself they now test for excess estrogen. See Manny.. Its just a funny concept.
As to Bautista, there have been lots of good comments both ways. No, using steroids wont make you hit more homeruns if you cant hit. But, if you are stronger and faster as a result, the ball will travel farther. He supposedly had started hitting like this last season, but I personally find it suspect that his production increased so dramatically at his age and time in the league. 23 years old and in a couple of years you explode, ok that could be a maturing issue. But 31 and 7 years in the league then out of no where? I think next year will be an interesting one for him.
And the question to ask before passing judgement is this, If you could make a million dollars a year for hitting 10 HR's or 15 million for hitting 30 , would you risk it?

MaHaRaJaH
10-03-2010, 11:21 AM
Hey Mike, Jeffy really is a kanjar

MaHaRaJaH
10-03-2010, 11:33 AM
I have. And I wrote a response about him earlier in this thread.



It just makes zero sense that Brady Anderson was a product of steorids. Or at least, if he was on steroids, that's no the primary factor in his crazy season. No one in their right mind would stop taking steroids after having the season he had if they were actually the reason he had so much success.

Not to mention this:

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/

Has a very well thought out and convincing argument that steroids do not have nearly that large of an impact on homerun totals. So maybe it's actually you who doesnt' know what the **** he's talking about.

I like to point out something this article mentions and I have been trying to get across for some time. This is from the Power Factor paragraph


To properly measure power levels in baseball, we need something that is independent of other performance data. We cannot, for example, simply count home runs--for a batter, a league, or all of major-league baseball--because home-run figures can change substantially with no change in power.

btw, is that stiltzkin in your avatar??

Jilly Bohnson
10-03-2010, 01:04 PM
I like to point out something this article mentions and I have been trying to get across for some time. This is from the Power Factor paragraph



btw, is that stiltzkin in your avatar??

Yeah, I personally think Anderson is a product of random variation and a juiced ball. Maybe poor pitching due to it being the first full year back from the strike and all the expansion in the 90's.

And yep, it's totally Stiltzkin. I love that little guy.

Luca68
10-03-2010, 01:36 PM
i doubt hes on steriods he doesnt look any different apart from his beard. He just changed up his swing and its working for him.

chrism516
10-03-2010, 02:53 PM
unfortunately baseball has brought the doubt upon itself...from now on when ever a player has a bigger year then he normally does at a older age...its going to be questioned.

do we all really believe that baseball is a clean sport?

JWO35
10-03-2010, 03:56 PM
You rarely hear people going from hitting 10-15HRs to 50+ HR
After the steroid era its hard to believe anyone these days....

Hero93
10-03-2010, 04:24 PM
no

northsider
10-03-2010, 04:59 PM
I find it hard to believe a guy who avg. 10-15 would hit 50+ and do steroids not thinking it would raise eyes. I really don't think anyone would risk it and make it noticeable that they could be doing them. I just think he is having that kind of off the chart season.

It's almost just real **** luck for him if you ask me he has to be going insane thinking man I am really doing this and people are going to instantly tab me for using roids. Sucks that baseball is going to be a witch hunt for a while and we can no longer enjoy a great season for what it actually is. You would have to be completely ******** or not from this planet to think you can just go and have a year like this and not have any speculation.

bigmac8675
10-03-2010, 05:40 PM
Hell yes he does.

kgjfan243
10-11-2010, 01:05 PM
i think he does