PDA

View Full Version : Which trade owned the other team more?



Uncle Sam
09-25-2010, 02:51 PM
The rockies trade: Matt Holiday ( Who is traded away 7 months later ) and the A's trade: CarGo and Huston Street.

or

The marlins trade: Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis and the Tigers trade: Six prospects.

Perhaps the Cabrera deal was most beneficial to the tigers, because they traded away NOTHING. But the As had to trade Holiday 7 months later, and CarGo has become even better than Holiday! So which team got the swiftest kick in the ***? The A's or Marlins?

d79cheese
09-25-2010, 03:02 PM
The rockies trade: Matt Holiday ( Who is traded away 7 months later ) and the A's trade: CarGo and Huston Street.

or

The marlins trade: Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis and the Tigers trade: Six prospects.

Perhaps the Cabrera deal was most beneficial to the tigers, because they traded away NOTHING. But the As had to trade Holiday 7 months later, and CarGo has become even better than Holiday! So which team got the swiftest kick in the ***? The A's or Marlins?

it's hard to evaluate the cargo trade because of the coors field component. if he was traded to any other team we are not having this conversation at the moment. now cargo is only 24, and will more then likely close the gap with his home/road splits. but cargo is essentially the anti billy beane player, does work counts or draw walks, and that is a big reason he was traded away. also the comparison isn't between cargo and holliday, it is between cargo and the prospects that resulted in the subsequent holliday trade.

Madtown22
09-25-2010, 03:25 PM
How about the twins trading A.J. Perzinski for Frank Liriano, Joe Nathan and Boof Bonzer. Not bad

HT9Canada
09-25-2010, 03:47 PM
the question of the second trade is who are the 6 prospects the marlins received. surely some of them must be some recognizable names

lincecum=future
09-25-2010, 03:53 PM
the question of the second trade is who are the 6 prospects the marlins received. surely some of them must be some recognizable names

cameron maybin and andrew miller i believe. idk bout the others

crankyrayhanky
09-25-2010, 03:55 PM
Cliff Lee getting sent to Seattle in a buddy deal from Philadelphia was the worst trade since Babe Ruth. Salary dump was involved, but don't discount the influence of exSeattle, exToronto, exPhila GM Pat Gillick

ShinobiNYC
09-25-2010, 04:08 PM
Babe Ruth for cash....It changed everything for 2 of the biggest franchises in baseball.

Mopped_you
09-25-2010, 04:15 PM
Ruben trading Cliff Lee for a bag of expired peanuts was pretty bad, but how about the Expos trading Brandon Philips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore to the Indians for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew.

momoneyyyy
09-25-2010, 04:21 PM
wait the A's got michael taylor in return who is a top propect a 5 tool player who is 6 ft 5 and 260 pounds. so untill he comes up and shows what he can do we cant say anything.

NYKNYGNYY
09-25-2010, 04:27 PM
ya to bad the d trains carrer went down the toilet

ccugrad1
09-25-2010, 04:30 PM
Of the two, by far the Florida Marlins. With Colorado, Carlos Gonzalez AND Huston Street have played solidly. I really haven't seen anyone that Florida got back that has helped them much at all.

koldjerky
09-25-2010, 04:36 PM
wait the A's got michael taylor in return who is a top propect a 5 tool player who is 6 ft 5 and 260 pounds. so untill he comes up and shows what he can do we cant say anything.

Not in the Holliday deal they didn't.

d79cheese
09-25-2010, 04:49 PM
Not in the Holliday deal they didn't.

they got brett wallace, who they flipped and eventually ended up with taylor as a result of the cargo/holliday trade

koldjerky
09-25-2010, 04:52 PM
That's separate trades though. In retrospect it's not that bad if Taylor turns out to be good but sticking to those trades they didn't get Taylor from Colorado or in that trade.

jawjr13
09-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Not in the Holliday deal they didn't.

yeah but Billy Bean only got Holliday so he could flip him for better prospects, he never intended to keep him.

samevans7
09-25-2010, 04:59 PM
yeah. Holiday was traded for Cargo/Street. Then Holiday was traded for Brett Wallace to STL. Then Wallace was traded to TOR for Taylor in the Halladay deal

Uncle Sam
09-25-2010, 05:08 PM
All these reiculous trades that happened are amuseing

Algmuskrats
09-25-2010, 05:38 PM
Of the two, by far the Florida Marlins. With Colorado, Carlos Gonzalez AND Huston Street have played solidly. I really haven't seen anyone that Florida got back that has helped them much at all.

Marlins literally got nothing.

PraiseJesus
09-25-2010, 05:39 PM
Carlos Santana for Casey Blake rental

That was highway robbery

Crucis
09-25-2010, 05:52 PM
Of the two, by far the Florida Marlins. With Colorado, Carlos Gonzalez AND Huston Street have played solidly. I really haven't seen anyone that Florida got back that has helped them much at all.

I agree here. It seems that about the only thing that Florida got in the trade was salary relief... ;)

OTOH, I'd say that the Holliday for Cargo and Street was a relatively fair deal, particularly when you factor in what the A's got when they traded MH to the Cards. Still, I'd say that the Rox made out even better.

tomsa592
09-25-2010, 05:53 PM
Heathcliff Slocum traded by Boston to Seattle for Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek. Best trade Dan Duquette made for the Sox

LakersA's49ers
09-25-2010, 06:12 PM
Ruben trading Cliff Lee for a bag of expired peanuts was pretty bad, but how about the Expos trading Brandon Philips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore to the Indians for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew.

perfectly said. sizemore lee and phillips are allstars and bartolo colon never panned out

LakersA's49ers
09-25-2010, 06:14 PM
yeah. Holiday was traded for Cargo/Street. Then Holiday was traded for Brett Wallace to STL. Then Wallace was traded to TOR for Taylor in the Halladay deal

Michael Taylor has the tools to be great, but does he have the work ethic to become a star? depends what he wants to do. hes 6'6'' 250 i believe. very big boy

NYY NYJ NYK
09-25-2010, 06:17 PM
Babe Ruth for cash....It changed everything for 2 of the biggest franchises in baseball.

Agreed

momoneyyyy
09-25-2010, 06:25 PM
Michael Taylor has the tools to be great, but does he have the work ethic to become a star? depends what he wants to do. hes 6'6'' 250 i believe. very big boy

yeah he has the speed to steal 20 bases and the power to hit 20+ homeruns and its been said that he is a very good outfielder.

kmo429
09-25-2010, 08:00 PM
Like soemone mentioned, the most lopsided deal in recent memory is Phillips, Lee, and Sizemore for Colon. Just terrible, Omar Minaya at his finest.

jd25213
09-25-2010, 09:09 PM
The Nick Swisher trade, Yankees get Swisher and Kanekoa Texeira for Wilson Betemit, Jeffrey Marquez, and Jhonny Nunez who went to the White Sox. Now both Texeira and Betemit play for the Royals, Marquez and Nunez have been nothing and Swisher is an All Star RFer for New York and clubhouse leader.

More-Than-Most
09-25-2010, 09:26 PM
Going to come back to this after the Phillies win the world series... Oswalt for trash.

More-Than-Most
09-25-2010, 09:27 PM
Also both Phillie and lee trades... Phillies robbed Cleveland for Lee and than got *** rammed by Seattle.

nithanyo
09-25-2010, 09:37 PM
Ruben trading Cliff Lee for a bag of expired peanuts was pretty bad, but how about the Expos trading Brandon Philips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore to the Indians for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew.

Why yu gotta remind me.... i was jus starting to recover from that :cry:

MIKE&IKE's
09-25-2010, 09:56 PM
Ruben trading Cliff Lee for a bag of expired peanuts was pretty bad, but how about the Expos trading Brandon Philips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore to the Indians for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew.

thats a minaya special right there

Epic89
09-25-2010, 10:08 PM
The Nick Swisher trade, Yankees get Swisher and Kanekoa Texeira for Wilson Betemit, Jeffrey Marquez, and Jhonny Nunez who went to the White Sox. Now both Texeira and Betemit play for the Royals, Marquez and Nunez have been nothing and Swisher is an All Star RFer for New York and clubhouse leader.

The White Sox don't take enough criticism for this. I guess they traded Swish because he was too eccentric or something like that :facepalm: Add in that they traded Gio Gonzalez and Ryan Sweeney for him, and got that bad a return, and that's a straight up abysmal trade for the White Sox.

BionicJoker
09-25-2010, 10:35 PM
Braves trading Neftali Feliz (Just broke the rookie saves record and can throw 102), Jarrod Saltalamachia (A MLB ready player whose only trouble was throwing the ball back to the mound while in Texas), and Elvis Andrus (Starting SS for the Rangers while the Braves are having some SS trouble) for a Mark Teixera rental. Now, Tex did some good but not enough to help the Braves win the postseason. All he did was get Chipper a batting title (.365). Who then hits .260 the year after.
May not be a "OMG The Braves got screwed on that" kind of deal to everyone else. But it is to me considering Tex was just a rental.

koldjerky
09-25-2010, 10:42 PM
yeah but Billy Bean only got Holliday so he could flip him for better prospects, he never intended to keep him.

Doesn't matter he gave up 2 guys that are probably going to be better than what they got. Even if Michael Taylor is as good as CarGo the Rockies still got Street in the deal.


Also both Phillie and lee trades... Phillies robbed Cleveland for Lee and than got *** rammed by Seattle.

Carrasco is actually showing some positive signs. It's still a solid win for the Phillies though.

TIGERSBABY!!!
09-25-2010, 10:48 PM
getting back to the question
The marlins got robbed. But Dontrelle hurt the Tigers pretty bad. that being said...
andrew miller, and maybin are both busts and they were the top two prospects. Gorkey Hernadez was the third best prospect and i belive the Marlins traded him to the Braves last year.

But Dave Dumbrowski (? spelling) pulled off another killer trade last year with Granderson and Edwin Jackson. Max has been outstanding, Austin Jackson has been outstanding, Phil Coke has been outstanding, and the other two we got are doing good in the minors as well.
The Tigers are being built aroung these two trades. DD has made some good moves and i expect him to make another big trade this offseason. Maybe a SS or 3B.

Zander 77
09-25-2010, 11:41 PM
getting back to the question
The marlins got robbed. But Dontrelle hurt the Tigers pretty bad. that being said...
andrew miller, and maybin are both busts and they were the top two prospects. Gorkey Hernadez was the third best prospect and i belive the Marlins traded him to the Braves last year.

But Dave Dumbrowski (? spelling) pulled off another killer trade last year with Granderson and Edwin Jackson. Max has been outstanding, Austin Jackson has been outstanding, Phil Coke has been outstanding, and the other two we got are doing good in the minors as well.
The Tigers are being built aroung these two trades. DD has made some good moves and i expect him to make another big trade this offseason. Maybe a SS or 3B.

Actually...Gorkeys was the "other" part of the trade for Renteria a few years back. He was in addition to Jair, making that a pretty bad trade for the Tigers.

Yeah, the trade last year might actually be better in the long run then the Cabrera trade, considering the pieces involved. We got better back than we gave up, and that was just half the trade. Edwin Jackson at his highest= Scherzer this year, and he'll still be better in a few years. Jackson is as good as Granderson, just trading power for average, and Jacksons power may still develope. Not to mention two great lefties, with one possibly transferring to the rotation next year.

marlinsfan24
09-26-2010, 12:41 AM
The Marlins got back Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Mike Rabelo, Burke Badenhop, Eugiene De La Cruz, and Dallas Tahern. Only Miller, Maybin, and Bandenhop are with the Marlins now. And Badenhop is the only one to have MLB success. This trade is probably going to go down as one of the worst of all time. Miguel Cabrera continues to get better year after year while the Marlins end gets closer and closer to irrelevance.

Matchstckman
09-26-2010, 12:49 AM
Mike Fontenot for Evan Crawford.

Uncle Sam
09-26-2010, 12:54 AM
The Marlins got back Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Mike Rabelo, Burke Badenhop, Eugiene De La Cruz, and Dallas Tahern. Only Miller, Maybin, and Bandenhop are with the Marlins now. And Badenhop is the only one to have MLB success. This trade is probably going to go down as one of the worst of all time. Miguel Cabrera continues to get better year after year while the Marlins end gets closer and closer to irrelevance.

Oh I know right? Watch the tigers take a big,fat, steamy poop on the marlins chest and steal hanley.

kmo429
09-26-2010, 01:03 AM
The Marlins got back Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Mike Rabelo, Burke Badenhop, Eugiene De La Cruz, and Dallas Tahern. Only Miller, Maybin, and Bandenhop are with the Marlins now. And Badenhop is the only one to have MLB success. This trade is probably going to go down as one of the worst of all time. Miguel Cabrera continues to get better year after yearwhile the Marlins end gets closer and closer to irrelevance.

In all honesty he's not too far behind Pujols historic pace. Some think that Pujols could be the all time homers leader some day, with 407 homeruns through 10 years and is only 30. Well Cabrera is only 27, won't be 28 until after next season starts, has 245 in only his 7th full season (his 1st season he only had about half a season's worth of at bats). After 7 years at Miggy's age Pujols had 282. Cabrera isn't Pujols but he's not in his prime yet and could get to 400 within the next 4 seasons, which would make him a 31 year old in the 400 club. I mean it's amazing how some of these modern era stars like Cabrera could be among the all time leaders in homeruns one day, not to mention he's hit .320 or better 5 of the last 6 years.

Skizzik
09-26-2010, 01:20 AM
Braves trading Neftali Feliz (Just broke the rookie saves record and can throw 102), Jarrod Saltalamachia (A MLB ready player whose only trouble was throwing the ball back to the mound while in Texas), and Elvis Andrus (Starting SS for the Rangers while the Braves are having some SS trouble) for a Mark Teixera rental. Now, Tex did some good but not enough to help the Braves win the postseason. All he did was get Chipper a batting title (.365). Who then hits .260 the year after.
May not be a "OMG The Braves got screwed on that" kind of deal to everyone else. But it is to me considering Tex was just a rental.

Don't forget we even got throw ins on that trade...Harrison hasn't been very good, but he's alright in the bullpen and Beau Jones is only 24 and had an alright AA season this year. It's fun remembering we got throw ins to add to our all-star SS and all-star closer for a guy who didn't want to be here.

Kings Analyst
09-26-2010, 01:48 AM
That's separate trades though. In retrospect it's not that bad if Taylor turns out to be good but sticking to those trades they didn't get Taylor from Colorado or in that trade.

Well if you're just taking Street and Carlos for Holiday as a full deal then yes that's a terrible trade for the A's, but that wasn't the plan at all, so you can't determine this deal quite right now. The A's turned around an got Michael Taylor who nobody knows how he'll do, but he has the potential to be a real good player, but then again he plays for the A's so I doubt he'll end up to be a good hitter.

DC82
09-26-2010, 04:45 AM
Oakland should have never got rid of Carlos Gonzalez. He was young, had all the potential, and was improving. I was upset when Oakland got rid of him. At least Oakland turned around and got Micheal Taylor. Hopefully he can be good.

Crucis
09-26-2010, 11:06 AM
The Marlins got back Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Mike Rabelo, Burke Badenhop, Eugiene De La Cruz, and Dallas Tahern. Only Miller, Maybin, and Bandenhop are with the Marlins now. And Badenhop is the only one to have MLB success. This trade is probably going to go down as one of the worst of all time. Miguel Cabrera continues to get better year after year while the Marlins end gets closer and closer to irrelevance.

Well, that's the risk when you trade a major MLB player for nothing but prospects. And even moreso, it's one of the problems that a small market team like the Marlins are going to have when they feel that they have to trade away a player like Miggy before he gets too expensive for them, or before he leaves to free agency.

Mind you, I don't know how well regarded the above listed prospects were at the time of the trade. The trade may have looked pretty good at the time (or not). But that's the risk a teams takes when you trade an established star for prospects, since there's never any guarantee that those prospects will become MLB players, let alone future stars.

I75
09-26-2010, 11:12 AM
Ernie Harwell (R.I.P). Perhaps the only broadcaster-player trade in baseball history.
His voice and love of the game brought many youngsters at the time like myself to become life long Tiger fans.

Crucis
09-26-2010, 11:20 AM
Braves trading Neftali Feliz (Just broke the rookie saves record and can throw 102), Jarrod Saltalamachia (A MLB ready player whose only trouble was throwing the ball back to the mound while in Texas), and Elvis Andrus (Starting SS for the Rangers while the Braves are having some SS trouble) for a Mark Teixera rental. Now, Tex did some good but not enough to help the Braves win the postseason. All he did was get Chipper a batting title (.365). Who then hits .260 the year after.
May not be a "OMG The Braves got screwed on that" kind of deal to everyone else. But it is to me considering Tex was just a rental.


Joker, it's trades like this one that are the big reason that I'm generally opposed to trading for high profile free agents to be as very short term rentals. Their old team will want a king's ransom for the player, and their new team will seemingly more often than not lose the player after the season.

About the only scenario where I can see such a trade being justifiable is for a mediocre team that hasn't been in the playoffs in a very long time, and the addition of the player could get them into the playoffs. I use the Brewers and CC Sabathia as a perfect example of this. The Brewers gave up a lot to get CC, but he carried them to the playoffs for the first time in a very long time... so I suppose that the increase in attendance during the playoff hunt and the excitement it created may have been worth the high cost.

OTOH, I couldn't see a team like the Red Sox making such a move. They've sold out Fenway since something like 2003, so adding such a high profile player is hardly going sell any more seats, since there aren't anymore to sell. And their teams have been strong enough over the last few years that they tend to take a longer view in their acquisitions. That is, the Sox don't appear willing to spend a lot of high grade prospects for a short term rental, no matter how good the rental may be. The short term gain doesn't appear to be worth the long term cost in their calculations.


As for the quoted Teixiera deal, yes, I'd say that the Braves made a mistake. But then again, I tend to seriously dislike such expensive, high profile, short term rental trades, in the best of circumstances.

Ender
09-26-2010, 12:01 PM
Ivan DeJesus.from CHC to PHI for Larry Bowa. Oh, and Ryne Sandberg.

Also, Willie Hernandez (1984 AL Cy Young & MVP) from PHI to DET for RF Glenn Wilson. (Anyone my age will remember Glenn as a decent player, great arm, good guy... but not an MVP/ Cy Young winner... and the classic Glenn-Bo: RBI Part II Prism campaign built around him when Rambo: First Blood Part II was out).

Man, those were some Godawful Phillies teams.

So, before you go spouting off about your fancy bad trades, do a little Phillies research. We cornered the market for a good 20 years.

Phils also had a thing for signing the wrong brother in a family; Vince DiMaggio, Ken Brett, Mark Leiter... pretty amusing stuff. Unless you're a ****ing fan.

Ender
09-26-2010, 12:14 PM
But that DET-FLA trade was pretty awful. I remember Miller was hyped to high heaven as the 2nd coming of Steve Carlton (pardon my old-schoolness) and Maybin was supposed to be the next Vince Coleman (yes, I'm old). Didn't quite work out that way.

The Marlins are a joke. Contraction now!

Epic89
09-26-2010, 02:03 PM
Oakland should have never got rid of Carlos Gonzalez. He was young, had all the potential, and was improving. I was upset when Oakland got rid of him. At least Oakland turned around and got Micheal Taylor. Hopefully he can be good.

It's nothing short of mind-blowing that CarGo is that young and that talented and yet he's playing in his third organization.

Jeffy25
09-26-2010, 02:33 PM
I'm still pissed about the Ludwick trade, so I don't have much to say.

Jeffy25
09-26-2010, 02:33 PM
It's nothing short of mind-blowing that CarGo is that young and that talented and yet he's playing in his third organization.

Brett Wallace, speaking of Matt Holliday trades

CityofTreez
09-26-2010, 02:59 PM
Babe Ruth for cash....It changed everything for 2 of the biggest franchises in baseball.

Pretty big trade right there

jd25213
09-26-2010, 05:50 PM
This trade never happened, but if it did, boy it would have sucked for the Yankees.

http://riveraveblues.com/2009/06/revisiting-an-almost-trade-of-mariano-rivera-13917/

Madtown22
09-26-2010, 06:58 PM
at the time Maybin and Miller were the tigers top prospects and yr 1. had D-train completely fail. Miggy is a beast, obviously the tigers win but Maybin might turn out to be good soon.

Pinstripe pride
09-26-2010, 07:25 PM
cabrera for basically nothing is pretty bad

eXpLiiCt
09-26-2010, 08:11 PM
Only if we got Hanley and Cabby that would be one of the best trades in history :D

I75
09-28-2010, 10:21 AM
This trade never happened, but if it did, boy it would have sucked for the Yankees.

http://riveraveblues.com/2009/06/revisiting-an-almost-trade-of-mariano-rivera-13917/

Never knew this. The 95' season was his rookie year with the Yanks or was this when he was with the Clippers? Worked out for the Yanks anyways they did eventually end up landing Wells and keeping Moe.

Giraffes Rule
09-28-2010, 12:14 PM
Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen.

todu82
09-28-2010, 01:57 PM
The Red Sox trading Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson was an awful trade.