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Ron!n
09-25-2010, 04:53 AM
Baseball commissioner Bud Selig wants to explore expanding the postseason this winter.

Several years ago, Major League Baseball formed a committee to examine expansion but Selig said there were several factors that ended the discussion. Now, he thinks the time is right to revisit it.


"It's a fair question," Selig said Friday before the St. Louis Cardinals played the Chicago Cubs. "We have less teams than any other sport. Eight teams make the playoffs. One wild card in each league. We certainly haven't abused anything."

He's not afraid of upsetting the purists, who were vocal in their opposition when the sport added the wild card.

"As the guy who brought the wild card and took a lot of abuse -- maybe from nobody in this room -- it's worked out great, nobody's against it," Selig said.

Selig said he has been monitoring the contentious divorce proceedings of Jamie and Frank McCourt, the owners of the Los Angeles Dodgers, but he refused to comment on the trial that could determine the future of the ownership of the team.

Despite efforts to cut down on the shattering of maple bats, a freak injury to the Cubs' Tyler Colvin on Sunday has given Selig new concern about their safety.

Colvin was hit in the chest by shard from a maple bat while on third base. He was released three days later from Miami hospital after being treated with a chest tube that prevented his lung from collapsing.

"Two years ago when this really came about, we retained people in the forestry division at the University of Wisconsin and at Harvard. They have really helped us. We have cut down on broken bats by about 50 percent and that's a lot of progress in a short period of time," Selig said. "Is it enough? No. We've got the remaining 50 percent to do and you watch something like the Tyler Colvin incident, and it scares you. But we're making progress."

Can we get rid of this guy before he ruins baseball? Its not a purist argument, its an argument that having half the teams in the league make the playoffs is just garbage.

Just imagine having no race between Tampa/New York and Giants/Padres since theyre all in the postseason.

VRP723
09-25-2010, 05:02 AM
I doubt he can make it happen, too many people against it.

As for him not commenting on the McCourt hearings though, he can go to hell.

More-Than-Most
09-25-2010, 05:06 AM
I don't like it either. Next he will wanna play another round. Just need to leave it be... It works. If you expand it further teams that do not deserve it will be there by default.

Gigantes4Life
09-25-2010, 05:14 AM
Playoffs?!

Hey Bud, why don't we talk about something much more important? Instant replay.

JCmasta
09-25-2010, 06:55 AM
Shorten the season by a good amount and add another wild card slot for the playoffs.

That would be good.

Ron!n
09-25-2010, 07:45 AM
Shorten the season by a good amount and add another wild card slot for the playoffs.

That would be good.
And how do you plan on fixing the problem with an odd number of teams in each league making the playoffs?

Byes are dumb.

mike_noodles
09-25-2010, 08:25 AM
I am all for expanding the playoffs, but they need to cut back the regular season to 154 games if they do it. If you go this route, you could actually finish up the world series three days earlier by going with 5 games in the first two rounds and 7 games in the last two.

Fred
09-25-2010, 08:39 AM
if this happened in 2010, then instead of being excited about the wc race in the NL, teams like Atl and SD would already be in and fans of STL and FLA would be rejoicing....no thanx buddy boy...enough is enough already....could you imagine a #1 seed having to play a #8 seed in the first round? that would extend the # innings for the pitchers (in it's entirety) and would make for lesser games in the WS, IMO...

JUST SAY NO TO BUDS

marlinsfan24
09-25-2010, 09:40 AM
I liked the idea John Kruck had. Add one more wild card team and then make the 2 wild card teams play a 1-game playoff. This gives the division winners the advantage of having their rotation set for a series and the wild-card team can't set their rotation for the playoffs based on this game. What do you guys think?

And I'd like to see every round being 7 games, if that's possible at all.

Other then those 2, I like baseball playoffs the way it is.

Sandman
09-25-2010, 09:42 AM
And how do you plan on fixing the problem with an odd number of teams in each league making the playoffs?

Byes are dumb.

Byes thats how. Puts more weight on the division title over the wild card.

Turns the wild card into a play in series.

fadedmario
09-25-2010, 09:55 AM
I'm all for it

BigBlueCrew
09-25-2010, 10:00 AM
The regular season definitely needs to get in line with the times and be shortened

nithanyo
09-25-2010, 10:15 AM
I liked the idea John Kruck had. Add one more wild card team and then make the 2 wild card teams play a 1-game playoff. This gives the division winners the advantage of having their rotation set for a series and the wild-card team can't set their rotation for the playoffs based on this game. What do you guys think?

And I'd like to see every round being 7 games, if that's possible at all.

Other then those 2, I like baseball playoffs the way it is.

I like 1 game playoff game too. So the division leaders are automatically in. Then the top 2 wildcard teams have a chance to play it out since they didnt actually win there division.

I remember that whitesox twins game a couple years back.... Awesome

This makes winning your division that much more special. Plus a Red Sox vs Rays and Padres vs Braves match is inticing

jd25213
09-25-2010, 10:21 AM
I like the idea.

Kakaroach
09-25-2010, 10:29 AM
I love the idea, to me this and a shorter regular season are exactly what baseball needs. More playoffs = more drama. Plus, 4 teams making the playoffs from each league is ridiculous. I'd love to see 8 teams from each league make it.

Mell413
09-25-2010, 10:40 AM
I would hope they don't expand the playoffs. Baseball playoffs now are a crapshoot. Adding another 4 teams in each league would make it worse. This would make the regular season mean less.

One plus side to this would be that I would get less upset over my team losing in the regular season if I knew they were going to make the playoffs anyway. Even though it would give my team a better chance to make the playoffs I don't think I could support playoff expansion.

flea
09-25-2010, 10:42 AM
This is a terrible idea, and it won't happen. The regular season is one of the great things about baseball. Because it's so long we often get much more accurate statistics. The NFL is basically a draw of the hat among 6 or so teams every year. The NBA has a pointless regular season and an unnecessarily long (and boring) playoffs.

Baseball's playoffs are already difficult because of the 5 game LDS round. If they do anything it would probably only be expanding this to 7 games. I'm okay with the wild card, especially if we're going to have this dumb interleague play BS, but watering down the playoffs even more would ruin pennant races. Baseball could perhaps market its September games better, because every game the 3 NL West teams and the Braves play are essentially playoff games. Unfortunately the AL is already decided, but it's been the more boring league since the DH anyway.

Crucis
09-25-2010, 10:49 AM
I love the idea, to me this and a shorter regular season are exactly what baseball needs. More playoffs = more drama. Plus, 4 teams making the playoffs from each league is ridiculous. I'd love to see 8 teams from each league make it.

Why??? Why is it ridiculous? I just LOVE when someone claims that something is "ridiculous" or whatever, without backing up the claim.

I don't think that there's a chance in hell that MLB will shorten the regular season. That would mean lost revenues for all teams, particularly for those teams that don't make the playoffs.

Does anyone think that if the season was shortened by 5 or 10% that the players would agree to reduce their pay by that same amount? Again, not a chance in hell.

Furthermore, I wouldn't be shocked if there were some significant secondary effects, such as the lease or mortgage holders on ball parks opposing shortened seasons, since doing so might make it more difficult for some teams to raise the money to pay those leases or mortgages.



As for the number of teams making the playoffs, there's nothing "ridiculous" about limiting the number of teams to 4 per league. Baseball has long placed a greater value on its regular season than other sports leagues. Other leagues seem to have so many teams make the playoffs that there's almost no point to their regular seasons. Baseball tries to limit the playoffs to only the best of the best, not just the top 50% of the league. I think that increasing the number of teams to 8 per league would make MLB to look little different than the NHL or NBA, and would greatly devalue the regular season.

Crucis
09-25-2010, 11:05 AM
This is a terrible idea, and it won't happen. The regular season is one of the great things about baseball. Because it's so long we often get much more accurate statistics. The NFL is basically a draw of the hat among 6 or so teams every year. The NBA has a pointless regular season and an unnecessarily long (and boring) playoffs.

Baseball's playoffs are already difficult because of the 5 game LDS round. If they do anything it would probably only be expanding this to 7 games. I'm okay with the wild card, especially if we're going to have this dumb interleague play BS, but watering down the playoffs even more would ruin pennant races. Baseball could perhaps market its September games better, because every game the 3 NL West teams and the Braves play are essentially playoff games. Unfortunately the AL is already decided, but it's been the more boring league since the DH anyway.

Yes, the AL is already largely decided, but that's just the way that the regular season works out. Had the Red Sox not endured such a tsunami of injuries, they might have still been in the AL East mix and there might have been another 3 team division race. But the injuries did happen and so forth... ;)

I strongly disagree with your comment regarding the DH, since I think that the DH makes things more exciting not less. However, I think that one might argue that DH issues aside, the NL might be a more interesting league than the AL, in large part because it seems that there are fewer super dominant teams that just about lock up their division every year. Thus, NL divisions seem to be somewhat more competitive from year to year.


Regarding September games, I do agree that any game played by a team still in the playoff hunt, i.e. the 3 NLW teams and the Braves, do have the feeling of playoff games. But perhaps that's part of the problem for some people... That is, maybe for some people, feeling like playoff games isn't good enough. Maybe those people prefer actual playoff games, rather than "feels like playoff" regular season games.

flea
09-25-2010, 11:19 AM
Well then those people must be very excited to watch a 7 game series between a sub-.500 team and the Orlando Magic or the Boston Celtics. Me, along with most of America, not so much.

Crucis
09-25-2010, 11:32 AM
Well then those people must be very excited to watch a 7 game series between a sub-.500 team and the Orlando Magic or the Boston Celtics. Me, along with most of America, not so much.

Hey, I know what you mean. The opening round of the NBA playoffs can seem like a waste when you have some lame barely .500 teams getting blasted by the top seeded teams.

So, yes, those can be called "playoff" games, but as you point out, I'm not sure how many people outside of the fans of those ~.500 "playoff" teams, can get particularly interested or excited in those games. I think that MLB has a much better playoff system because they limit the playoffs to the best of the best. I happen to think that the current number, 4 teams per league, is perfect. I think that there's room for debate over how those 4 teams per league are determined, i.e. the current model vs. (for example) no divisions and select the top 4 best records per league. But 4 teams per league produces a high level of quality in the playoffs.

Sandman
09-25-2010, 12:55 PM
Hey, I know what you mean. The opening round of the NBA playoffs can seem like a waste when you have some lame barely .500 teams getting blasted by the top seeded teams.

So, yes, those can be called "playoff" games, but as you point out, I'm not sure how many people outside of the fans of those ~.500 "playoff" teams, can get particularly interested or excited in those games. I think that MLB has a much better playoff system because they limit the playoffs to the best of the best. I happen to think that the current number, 4 teams per league, is perfect. I think that there's room for debate over how those 4 teams per league are determined, i.e. the current model vs. (for example) no divisions and select the top 4 best records per league. But 4 teams per league produces a high level of quality in the playoffs.

I like the 4 team system and don't want to see it diluted.

The reason it works in baseball is because there is such an extensive regular season. Its a reward to the top 8 teams for enduring the season as one of the best. That's a key tradition of the game.

If baseball were to expand to NHL or NBA style, it would cheapen the entire season. It would make the season seem longer because so few games would mean anything. The playoffs are also greatly different in the style of the game. MLB plays series all season long, 3 and 4 games at a time. MLB also has the "any given Sunday" effect more than any other major sport. Any random day, the worst team in the league could beat the best team in the league or the best pitcher in the league could have a bad outing and nobody would think anything of it. Nobody has 162 game hit streaks and nobody has hit safely in all of their playoff games. In the NHL or NBA, a 7 game series is much more decisive.

Another key tradition with regards to the playoffs are division winners and division rivalries. When the league was small, only the best record advanced. Then there were divisions, and even if the best two teams were in the same division, it used to be that only one could advance. The wild card took away from that a little bit, but it was necessary to expand the playoffs again with more and more teams in the league.

An option I heard is going half-way to the NFL system, with two wild cards up for grabs and 5 teams from each league making the playoffs. The two wild cards play each other in a 3, 5 or 7 game series for the 4th spot and the division winners get a breather.

That would strengthen the accomplishment of the division and that should please traditionalists. Instead of the wild card being option 1a it would clearly be option 2. There would be more competition amongst teams jockeying for position, not just a playoff berth. I think a first round bye would be a lot different in this system and in the nature of baseball anyway. In the NFL its a reward for being top 2 of the top 6. In MLB it would be a an extra challenge or punishment for being in the bottom 2 of the top 5. You would have to fight off another good team in a crapshoot 3 (or 5 or 7) game series to go get to where everybody else is already.

As baseball has added more teams that need to fill their stadiums late in the season and 81 times overall, it is to the benefit of the league to expand the playoff system. 1/3 of the teams in the playoffs isn't too bad. The tiered playoffs make it so that wild card teams don't have an equal chance.

The MLB can add 2 playoff teams while making the playoff race more competitive. I think its a unique opportunity if they can expand the system while making it less of a crapshoot.

metsfaninSTL
09-25-2010, 12:57 PM
8 teams is perfect. i hate the NBA becasue over half the team make the playoffs. that just dumb.

Ron!n
09-25-2010, 01:12 PM
Id say the only expansion should be making the 1st round 7 games.

ShaqShoes
09-25-2010, 01:27 PM
I like it the way it is. There are more important things he should be doing with his time.

DodgerB24
09-25-2010, 01:57 PM
How about he gets ****ing instant replay in the game?

How about he puts up a salary cap first?

How about he makes Frank Mcourt sell the Dodgers before he ****s up the franchise even more?

Selig is a ****in idiot.

m26555
09-25-2010, 02:49 PM
This is a terrible idea, and it won't happen. The regular season is one of the great things about baseball. Because it's so long we often get much more accurate statistics. The NFL is basically a draw of the hat among 6 or so teams every year. The NBA has a pointless regular season and an unnecessarily long (and boring) playoffs.

Baseball's playoffs are already difficult because of the 5 game LDS round. If they do anything it would probably only be expanding this to 7 games. I'm okay with the wild card, especially if we're going to have this dumb interleague play BS, but watering down the playoffs even more would ruin pennant races. Baseball could perhaps market its September games better, because every game the 3 NL West teams and the Braves play are essentially playoff games. Unfortunately the AL is already decided, but it's been the more boring league since the DH anyway.
Statistics? Seriously? We're more worried about statistics than the postseason?

Having only four teams from each league is ridiculous. I can just as easily argue that the regular season is meaningless the way it is now, as the good majority of the league is already out of it by August. The playoffs would be MUCH more exciting if there were more teams.

flea
09-25-2010, 03:47 PM
Statistics? Seriously? We're more worried about statistics than the postseason?
No, we're worried about getting the right teams into the postseason. The statistically significant number of PA and IP means we achieve that. The reason the postseason works is because the statistics are accurate, unlike in football where a lot can happen in only 16 games.

The postseason should be earned, not handed out to mediocrity. Go back to the NBA forum.

t327
09-25-2010, 04:46 PM
Playoff expansion and teenage drug use require similar responses. Just say No!

Burkey3472
09-25-2010, 04:50 PM
I would actually hate any expansion of the playoffs outside of 1 option. I would be fine if they added 1 more wildcard team and those two teams played a 3 game series (no more, no less). You don't want to make it too long and give some of these teams to much time off and a 1 game series wouldn't work either. In a 1 game series to much luck is involved, one hot pitcher, one bloop hit, etc. I'll bring in an example, lets assume the Yankees and Red Soxs win both of the WC spots this year but the Yankees have are 7-8 games above them (like right now). Is it really fair to have a 1 game playoff where Lester gets hot and a bloop single wins the game when the Yankees finished the season with a superior record?

As for 8 teams, do you really want teams that go .500 to be in the playoffs. These teams just don't deserve playing average baseball all season and getting rewarded for it. I look at a team like Houston (sorry astros fans), they would be 2.5 games out of a playoff spot where they have been terrible all season.

Keep it the way it is, the teams that get into the playoffs actually deserve it. How about you actually expand something that could be useful Selig, and that's Instant ****ing Replay!!!

MelanconMadness
09-25-2010, 04:51 PM
6 from each league wouldnt hurt. 8 in each would destroy it. Like he said, everyone doubted him when he started the wild card, and now its genius. Why doubt him on something he made work already

Crucis
09-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Statistics? Seriously? We're more worried about statistics than the postseason?

Statistics are an important part of what makes baseball special. Statistics are what help give the game the historical context that is mostly lacking in the other major sports. Stats like Ted Williams' .406, or Babe Ruth's 714 HR's, or Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak. Statistics are an important part of baseball lore. This is another reason why changing the length of the season is not likely ... it changes the value of statistics in their historical context.





Having only four teams from each league is ridiculous. I can just as easily argue that the regular season is meaningless the way it is now, as the good majority of the league is already out of it by August. The playoffs would be MUCH more exciting if there were more teams.


Back this up! WHY is it "ridiculous"? Frankly, as far as I'm concerned what would be "ridiculous" would be having more than 4 teams per league.

Also, playoffs with a bunch of unworthy teams are NOT more exciting. They're less exciting. Furthermore, I don't think that unworthy teams should even get a shot at the championship is they can't be in the top 4 teams of the league. This is a problem I have with the NHL and NBA. (The one saving grace of the NBA playoff system is that for whatever reason, those low seeds almost never get very far, and the NBA finals almost invariably is between two fully worthy teams.)

I do NOT want to see any unworthy teams getting into the playoffs. The only question is how to define "worthiness" for those 4 teams.

Crucis
09-25-2010, 05:05 PM
How about he gets ****ing instant replay in the game?

How about he puts up a salary cap first?

How about he makes Frank Mcourt sell the Dodgers before he ****s up the franchise even more?

Selig is a ****in idiot.


How about you a) stop swearing so much and b) learn the limits of what the MLB commissioner can and cannot do.

The commish CANNOT install a salary cap. The commish CANNOT force an owner to sell his team.

Frankly, the only idiot I see here is ... well, look in the mirror and maybe you'll recognize him.

Gigantes4Life
09-25-2010, 05:19 PM
No, we're worried about getting the right teams into the postseason. The statistically significant number of PA and IP means we achieve that. The reason the postseason works is because the statistics are accurate, unlike in football where a lot can happen in only 16 games.

The postseason should be earned, not handed out to mediocrity. Go back to the NBA forum.

:laugh2: Perfectly said.

Crucis
09-25-2010, 05:23 PM
I like the 4 team system and don't want to see it diluted.

The reason it works in baseball is because there is such an extensive regular season. Its a reward to the top 8 teams for enduring the season as one of the best. That's a key tradition of the game.

If baseball were to expand to NHL or NBA style, it would cheapen the entire season. It would make the season seem longer because so few games would mean anything. The playoffs are also greatly different in the style of the game. MLB plays series all season long, 3 and 4 games at a time. MLB also has the "any given Sunday" effect more than any other major sport. Any random day, the worst team in the league could beat the best team in the league or the best pitcher in the league could have a bad outing and nobody would think anything of it. Nobody has 162 game hit streaks and nobody has hit safely in all of their playoff games. In the NHL or NBA, a 7 game series is much more decisive.

Another key tradition with regards to the playoffs are division winners and division rivalries. When the league was small, only the best record advanced. Then there were divisions, and even if the best two teams were in the same division, it used to be that only one could advance. The wild card took away from that a little bit, but it was necessary to expand the playoffs again with more and more teams in the league.

I disagree with this statement. It's a "tradition" :eyebrow: that's only existed for about 40 years. Not much of a "tradition" IMHO.

I don't mind the concept of traditions. But I don't buy into some of the things that people claim to be "traditions". This would be one of them. I think that purism is a bit overrated in baseball. Spitballs were legal at one point. Hit balls that today would be ground rule doubles for bouncing over the OF wall in fair ground, once were considered home runs. There were no divisions prior to around 1970 or so. Change does occur in baseball.

I think that the Wild card was a good change. I'm not entirely sure that the re-alignment to a 3 divisions per league was a good thing or not. MLB might have been and be better off with no divisions and having the top 4 teams in each league getting into the playoffs. There are strong arguments on both sides, which I have described in the past.





An option I heard is going half-way to the NFL system, with two wild cards up for grabs and 5 teams from each league making the playoffs. The two wild cards play each other in a 3, 5 or 7 game series for the 4th spot and the division winners get a breather.

I don't like this 5th team per league idea. But the idea of giving the division winners a bye is absolutely TERRIBLE. The 5th team per league idea might not be too, too bad if they only played a single game, since a single game playoff between the 2 WC teams wouldn't create much of a delay. However anything beyond that is a serious disadvantage for the division winners. Let me explain this in clear, simple terms... Byes are BAD in baseball!!! Teams do not like having a lot of time off. Oh, 1-2 off days isn't a big deal. But sitting around for a week while other teams are playing is just plain bad.



The MLB can add 2 playoff teams while making the playoff race more competitive. I think its a unique opportunity if they can expand the system while making it less of a crapshoot.

Generally speaking, I disagree. Four teams per league is the perfect number IMHO. And I don't think that it's a crapshoot at all right now.

Rather than playing around with the number of teams in the playoffs, I'd rather see MLB look at whether the current 3 divisional winners and the WC is the best model to use to determine who gets into the playoffs, or whether having no divisions and having the top 4 teams be the playoff entrants might be a better model.

Crucis
09-25-2010, 05:26 PM
:laugh2: Perfectly said.

Indeed. Very well said. :clap:

MooseWithFleas
09-25-2010, 05:27 PM
Wow... Selig's impending retirement could not come soon enough. Get this joker out before he ruins the damn sport.

Algmuskrats
09-25-2010, 05:39 PM
I really don't see this happening.

dfritz03
09-25-2010, 06:24 PM
I would actually hate any expansion of the playoffs outside of 1 option. I would be fine if they added 1 more wildcard team and those two teams played a 3 game series (no more, no less). You don't want to make it too long and give some of these teams to much time off and a 1 game series wouldn't work either. In a 1 game series to much luck is involved, one hot pitcher, one bloop hit, etc. I'll bring in an example, lets assume the Yankees and Red Soxs win both of the WC spots this year but the Yankees have are 7-8 games above them (like right now). Is it really fair to have a 1 game playoff where Lester gets hot and a bloop single wins the game when the Yankees finished the season with a superior record?

As for 8 teams, do you really want teams that go .500 to be in the playoffs. These teams just don't deserve playing average baseball all season and getting rewarded for it. I look at a team like Houston (sorry astros fans), they would be 2.5 games out of a playoff spot where they have been terrible all season.

Keep it the way it is, the teams that get into the playoffs actually deserve it. How about you actually expand something that could be useful Selig, and that's Instant ****ing Replay!!!

Couldn't of said it better myself. Keep it the way it, there's no need for change. But if they had to expand, I agree with this opinion with adding one more and having the two wildcards battle it out for a spot. It has to be done quick though because the more time that's spent on this is the later these guys are playing and they will be playing to Thanksgiving when you can't even hold a bat in your hands because of how cold it is.

downsos
09-25-2010, 09:07 PM
Just add ****ing replay.

Sick Of It All
09-25-2010, 09:09 PM
...the Mets should get an automatic entry because they are not going to make it on their own.

2009mvp
09-25-2010, 09:21 PM
I liked the idea John Kruck had. Add one more wild card team and then make the 2 wild card teams play a 1-game playoff. This gives the division winners the advantage of having their rotation set for a series and the wild-card team can't set their rotation for the playoffs based on this game. What do you guys think?

And I'd like to see every round being 7 games, if that's possible at all.

Other then those 2, I like baseball playoffs the way it is.

That's such a bad idea IMO. The Sox are 5.5 back of the WC leading Yankees right now, if the season were to end now we're gonna give them the chance to make up that huge deficit in one game? That ain't right.

nithanyo
09-25-2010, 09:32 PM
That's such a bad idea IMO. The Sox are 5.5 back of the WC leading Yankees right now, if the season were to end now we're gonna give them the chance to make up that huge deficit in one game? That ain't right.

The Red Sox have a much improved roster from May or june when half there roster where injured. Maybe they are the better team. Were not gonna do the whole season over, were essentially jus letting the top two runner ups face it off to see who deserves to be in the playoffs.

iggypop123
09-25-2010, 11:33 PM
he's just trying to avoid a boring end to the regular season which we have right now. AL is already decided. the only thing in the NL is the wild card. i also think this could be a ploy to ensure more bigger markets get in meaning more $. i think business would be better if the dodgers, and red sox got in the playoffs instead of the rays and reds.

IBleedPurple
09-25-2010, 11:41 PM
Baseball should have 8 teams make it, and have an opening best of 5 game series.

Many fans of middle of the road teams lose interest the last 6 weeks of the season when there is no shot at the playoffs.

Look at every other sport. 4 teams per league is ridiculous. Selig is an idiot

flea
09-25-2010, 11:51 PM
Baseball should have 8 teams make it, and have an opening best of 5 game series.

Many fans of middle of the road teams lose interest the last 6 weeks of the season when there is no shot at the playoffs.

Look at every other sport. 4 teams per league is ridiculous. Selig is an idiot

What are you arguing? 8 teams do make it, and the opening series is 5 games. Why are we looking at other sports? Explain.

IBleedPurple
09-26-2010, 12:28 AM
What are you arguing? 8 teams do make it, and the opening series is 5 games. Why are we looking at other sports? Explain.

8 teams per league, my bad

Bronzbomba
09-26-2010, 12:28 AM
Imo, in other sports, too many teams make it. I would keep it the way it is now...

DodgerB24
09-26-2010, 12:32 AM
How about you a) stop swearing so much and b) learn the limits of what the MLB commissioner can and cannot do.

The commish CANNOT install a salary cap. The commish CANNOT force an owner to sell his team.

Frankly, the only idiot I see here is ... well, look in the mirror and maybe you'll recognize him.

Wow, way to be an ***. :facepalm: Idiot.

I know that he cannot force those things but he can push for it. Which would certainly be better than what he's doing now.

2009mvp
09-26-2010, 12:35 AM
Fun fact, if we went to an 8 team/league playoff such powerhouses as the .500 A's, and the decidedly mediocre Tigers/Jays would be in the playoffs. AL East argument aside - (sorry) those teams just don't deserve to be in the playoffs. I'd say Selig is completely missing the mark here, the solution isn't to simply let more teams into the playoffs, it should be to ensure the right teams are the ones getting there (ie, balanced schedules/killing the divisions).

misterd
09-26-2010, 12:38 AM
Can we get rid of this guy before he ruins baseball? Its not a purist argument, its an argument that having half the teams in the league make the playoffs is just garbage.

Just imagine having no race between Tampa/New York and Giants/Padres since theyre all in the postseason.

Strictly speaking, I don't mind him considering anything. It shouldn't hurt to keep an open mind. After all, arguments such as yours were made against the current system.

But for now I agree that while some good might come out of an expanded post season, it would likely do more harm.

As it is, it often seems that success in the post season is a crap shoot. The odds that a 06 Cardinals or 00 Yankees will win seems higher than I'm comfortable with. Before we consider expanding the post season to more teams (and likely adding a third round, which would add another week or two to the post season), let's find a way to expand the DS to seven games, and have as few off days in October as possible. Teams with depth really do deserve to benefit.

misterd
09-26-2010, 12:40 AM
8 teams per league, my bad

That's more than half of all the teams in baseball. Why bother with a regular season?

giants73756
09-26-2010, 03:17 AM
I'd like to see the division series expanded to 7 games. 5 games just seems silly, I've never understood the point. If they want to add more teams, expand the playoffs to let either 5 or 6 teams make the playoffs. Never 8 teams, that's just stupid, for obvious reasons. There is little incentive to win the division now, but having wild card winners face off against each other would give division winners a deserved bye.

Crucis
09-26-2010, 10:25 AM
Wow, way to be an ***. :facepalm: Idiot.

I know that he cannot force those things but he can push for it. Which would certainly be better than what he's doing now.

Maybe you meant it and maybe you didn't. In the written word, it doesn't matter what you meant. It only matters what you wrote.

You WROTE:

How about he gets ****ing instant replay in the game?

How about he puts up a salary cap first?

How about he makes Frank Mcourt sell the Dodgers before he ****s up the franchise even more?


Gets, Puts, Makes. Those are all action verbs of force ... of MAKING things happen, not "pushing" for others to make them happen.

So... either you lied, because you really didn't know that the commish didn't have that power... or you did know and your ability to use the language is incompetent. Pick one. Lies or Incompetence. Your choice.

Crucis
09-26-2010, 10:46 AM
Fun fact, if we went to an 8 team/league playoff such powerhouses as the .500 A's, and the decidedly mediocre Tigers/Jays would be in the playoffs. AL East argument aside - (sorry) those teams just don't deserve to be in the playoffs. I'd say Selig is completely missing the mark here, the solution isn't to simply let more teams into the playoffs, it should be to ensure the right teams are the ones getting there (ie, balanced schedules/killing the divisions).

I agree with you here, 2009mvp. However, I would say that the trick here is in defining what the "right" teams actually are.

From what you've written, you appear to favor having the "right" teams be the top 4 best records for each league with no divisions. I think that there's a lot to justify this point of view.

OTOH, I think that there's a lot of reasons to justify something like the current model as well.

For example, with the "no divisions, top 4 records" model, there is no guarantee of any sort of geographical diversity in the teams that make the playoffs. It would be entirely possible for 3 out of 4 (or worse) playoff teams coming from the AL East.

For example, had the Red Sox been healthy, I think that they would still be in the AL East mix. (Heck even beaten up, they're still not that far out of 1st place.) It would even entirely possible to see 3 of the 4 teams coming from the ALE.

Now, I realize that some people may say, "if they're 3 of the 4 best teams, then so be it". Fine. That's a legit enough opinion. However, this is also the real world, and TV covers the MLB playoffs, and I think that they'd prefer more geographical diversity to make the playoffs more appealing to wider array of fans nationwide. (Of course, perhaps the current AL East example isn't the best one for this issue, since one of the 3 teams is in FLA, while the other 2 are in the northeast... and the 2 NE teams (Red Sox and Yanks) have strong national followings.)

A divisional system guarantees a degree of geographical diversity in the teams making the playoffs. Furthermore, one of the reasons for the current unbalanced schedule is reduced travel costs. Returning to a more balanced schedule would increase travel costs for all teams. I suspect that this is not an insignificant issue. Also, IIRC, another reason that teams like the unbalanced schedule is that those teams like to have as many games as possible in the same time zone as their home city because that increases TV viewership of their games, which increases TV revenues. Obviously fewer people will be watching when the Red Sox are playing an away game against the Angels 3 time zones away than they would for an away game against the Rays in their same time zone.

There are a lot of issues here that go far beyond what seems like the simple fairness of taking the top 4 teams. That simple fairness may be extremely expensive ... increased travel costs, reduced local TV revenues, and so on.

Pinstripe pride
09-27-2010, 08:33 AM
yea, add more teams so we can watch the last game of the world series on christmas

JLynn943
09-27-2010, 09:20 AM
Statistics? Seriously? We're more worried about statistics than the postseason?

Having only four teams from each league is ridiculous. I can just as easily argue that the regular season is meaningless the way it is now, as the good majority of the league is already out of it by August. The playoffs would be MUCH more exciting if there were more teams.

I agree with this 100%. It's sad that people are so worried about statistics. God forbid the sample sized be reduced from the absurd number it is right now just to create a little more interest in a sport that could really use it.

The length of the season is completely unnecessary. There is not a single game all season long that has a do-or-die feel to it until the end of the season when maybe two or three teams are still in a close race. There comes a point where if there is to be any resurgence of this sport something will need to change to make it at least a little interesting to the average person. I don't know if that means adding playoff teams or not, but it means changing something.

I think the NFL format would do well. It would create more competition for the two wildcard spots in each league and for the bye weeks (which would provide very valuable rest).

Crucis
09-27-2010, 09:47 AM
I agree with this 100%. It's sad that people are so worried about statistics. God forbid the sample sized be reduced from the absurd number it is right now just to create a little more interest in a sport that could really use it.

The length of the season is completely unnecessary. There is not a single game all season long that has a do-or-die feel to it until the end of the season when maybe two or three teams are still in a close race. There comes a point where if there is to be any resurgence of this sport something will need to change to make it at least a little interesting to the average person. I don't know if that means adding playoff teams or not, but it means changing something.

I think the NFL format would do well. It would create more competition for the two wildcard spots in each league and for the bye weeks (which would provide very valuable rest).


The long season and statistics are a huge part of what makes baseball what it is. Also, baseball is NOT football and it should not try to mirror that sport.

And frankly, I don't think that you know anything about baseball. Any truly knowledgeable fan of MLB would know that byes or worse a bye WEEK would be absolutely TERRIBLE in baseball. Baseball players are used to playing every day. As it is now, the players think that there are too many off days during the playoffs. The last thing they need is more. They want fewer off days during the playoffs. Baseball players thrive on routine and timing and so forth. Time off beyond 1-2 days only serves to hurt their timing.

One has only to remember game 1 of the 2007 World Series to see the effect of what was in effect a bye. The Rockies had swept the NLCS, while the Red Sox played a full game series. And in combination of the schedule, this ended up causing the Rockies to have something like 7-10 days off (don't remember the exact number), while the Red Sox only had 1, maybe 2, days off after the end of the ALCS. In game #1 of the WS, the Red Sox were fresh and played a crisp game, while the Rockies looked sluggish and totally overmatched by Josh Beckett.

In short, long byes in baseball are a bad, bad, BAD thing. About 1-2 days off is the most any ball player really wants between series, and maybe 1 day off, if they have to travel. Baseball is NOT football in this regard.

OneTuzSea
09-27-2010, 09:50 AM
The long season and statistics are a huge part of what makes baseball what it is. Also, baseball is NOT football and it should not try to mirror that sport.

And frankly, I don't think that you know anything about baseball. Any truly knowledgeable fan of MLB would know that byes or worse a bye WEEK would be absolutely TERRIBLE in baseball. Baseball players are used to playing every day. As it is now, the players think that there are too many off days during the playoffs. The last thing they need is more. They want fewer off days during the playoffs. Baseball players thrive on routine and timing and so forth. Time off beyond 1-2 days only serves to hurt their timing.

One has only to remember game 1 of the 2007 World Series to see the effect of what was in effect a bye. The Rockies had swept the NLCS, while the Red Sox played a full game series. And in combination of the schedule, this ended up causing the Rockies to have something like 7-10 days off (don't remember the exact number), while the Red Sox only had 1, maybe 2, days off after the end of the ALCS. In game #1 of the WS, the Red Sox were fresh and played a crisp game, while the Rockies looked sluggish and totally overmatched by Josh Beckett.

In short, long byes in baseball are a bad, bad, BAD thing. About 1-2 days off is the most any ball player really wants between series, and maybe 1 day off, if they have to travel. Baseball is NOT football in this regard.

:clap:

todu82
09-27-2010, 10:16 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing an expansion to the playoffs but yes if they do do it, cut the regular season back to 148 games or something.

Crucis
09-27-2010, 10:18 AM
Thanks, OneTuzSea. I just don't understand why people don't understand that lengthy byes in baseball are seriously BAD. About the only reason I can imagine is that those making such suggestions are young and simply have yet to learn this fact.

You just can't go for 6 months, almost always taking no more than 1 day off a week, and then hit the playoffs and get a full week off dumped on you without it having detrimental effects.

Pinstripe pride
09-27-2010, 10:46 AM
Thanks, OneTuzSea. I just don't understand why people don't understand that lengthy byes in baseball are seriously BAD. About the only reason I can imagine is that those making such suggestions are young and simply have yet to learn this fact.

You just can't go for 6 months, almost always taking no more than 1 day off a week, and then hit the playoffs and get a full week off dumped on you without it having detrimental effects.

exactly. it would have to move to 8 teams per league making it so theres no layoffs, which is way to many. baseball is the only sport that has the playoffs right. the NHL and NBA seasons are basically meaningless because half the league makes the playoffs. adding more playoff teams is only going to lengthen the playoffs and make division and wild card races meaningless

Kinsm
09-27-2010, 10:58 AM
More playoff teams make the regular season less important. Baseball is much better than any other sport where half their da** teams make the playoffs.

The only way I'd support additional playoff teams would be if they added 2 teams and broke each league into 4 divisions like the nfl....(but expansion would be a tough sell right now and that would involve some kind of bye system which won't work).

I would however like to see all of the playoff rounds made 7 game series, or a 5 game - 7 game - 9 game structure (which will never fly because purists love the 7 game world series)....my reasoning because the playoffs are bit of a crapshoot and a 9 game series would take out some of the luck.

Crucis
09-27-2010, 11:05 AM
exactly. it would have to move to 8 teams per league making it so theres no layoffs, which is way to many. baseball is the only sport that has the playoffs right. the NHL and NBA seasons are basically meaningless because half the league makes the playoffs. adding more playoff teams is only going to lengthen the playoffs and make division and wild card races meaningless


Agreed.

One caveat I'd mention is that I think that there is ... some ... logic to the idea of a 2nd wild card team in each league and having the 2 WC teams play a 1 game playoff. I personally don't like the idea, but the logic behind the idea is that it strengthens the value of winning your division, since the 2 WC teams would have to play each other, etc., etc. Personally, I have no problem with the single WC team being treated on a near equal basis with division winners. But then again, I don't really place that much emotional value on winning divisions. I think that the only things that matter are getting into the playoffs and then winning the WS. Winning a division isn't some monumental thing to me, so I don't see any point in trying to enhance it.

Crucis
09-27-2010, 11:12 AM
More playoff teams make the regular season less important. Baseball is much better than any other sport where half their da** teams make the playoffs.

The only way I'd support additional playoff teams would be if they added 2 teams and broke each league into 4 divisions like the nfl....(but expansion would be a tough sell right now and that would involve some kind of bye system which won't work).

I would however like to see all of the playoff rounds made 7 game series, or a 5 game - 7 game - 9 game structure (which will never fly because purists love the 7 game world series)....my reasoning because the playoffs are bit of a crapshoot and a 9 game series would take out some of the luck.

IIRC, a year or 2 ago, Scott Boras, of all people, suggested going to a 9 game world series, with 2 of the games being played at a neutral site, to try to make the WS more like the Super Bowl. Seemed like a silly idea to me. I think that the 7 game WS is fine just the way it is. I think that 7 games is long enough to keep the effect of luck minimal, and beyond that, more games seem to be a waste.

OTOH, I could see increasing the LDS' from 5 to 7 games.



One change that I'd like to see is the removal of some of the excessive off-days in the playoffs. In particular, I don't like how it's possible for the very best teams to get enough extra off-days to be able to use only a 3 man rotation. That seems like too much of a gratuitous advantage. I'd rather that the number of off-days was such that teams would have to use a normal 4 man playoff rotation, unless you wanted to use your pitchers on short rest.

Pinstripe pride
09-27-2010, 11:20 AM
Agreed.

One caveat I'd mention is that I think that there is ... some ... logic to the idea of a 2nd wild card team in each league and having the 2 WC teams play a 1 game playoff. I personally don't like the idea, but the logic behind the idea is that it strengthens the value of winning your division, since the 2 WC teams would have to play each other, etc., etc. Personally, I have no problem with the single WC team being treated on a near equal basis with division winners. But then again, I don't really place that much emotional value on winning divisions. I think that the only things that matter are getting into the playoffs and then winning the WS. Winning a division isn't some monumental thing to me, so I don't see any point in trying to enhance it.

i'd be ok with that. it wouldn't really lengthen the playoffs and would give the division winners more of an advantage since the wild card would likely not have their playoff rotation set the way they wanted. problem with this is the best team might not benifit from that if they are in the same division as the wild card. anything more that a game playin between 2 wild cards is too much though

jzstud4
09-27-2010, 11:41 AM
Great Idea !

Jeffy25
09-27-2010, 09:18 PM
Can we get rid of this guy before he ruins baseball? Its not a purist argument, its an argument that having half the teams in the league make the playoffs is just garbage.

Just imagine having no race between Tampa/New York and Giants/Padres since theyre all in the postseason.

Then you would simply have other races...it's not like they would just disappear.

Either way, I like that fewer teams make the playoffs personally....cinderella stories are nice, but I prefer the best team in baseball to win the championship, not got lucky enough, like my 06 Cardinals. A team that was half of what they were in 04 and 05

I have my suggestion for restructuring baseball, and it seems most people like it, maybe I'll write the Commish. :eyebrow:

Jeffy25
09-27-2010, 09:19 PM
I doubt he can make it happen, too many people against it.

As for him not commenting on the McCourt hearings though, he can go to hell.

He pretty well shouldn't comment on it, nor is it his place to discuss it right now.