PDA

View Full Version : Is Kobe the best ever if this happens...



jzstud4
09-23-2010, 07:46 PM
If Kobe and the Lakers beat the all mighty heat and Kobe has 2 ... 3 peats just like Jordan and actually been to 8 and he is on pace to pass jordan in all time scoring history would Kobe be better than Jordan and claim his right as the best bball player ever !? and if he isnt where does he rank ? 123 or maybe 567 ?

giventofly
09-23-2010, 07:48 PM
Who knows, maybe.

Kobe is an unbelievable talent, but my decision would still be Jordan. Kobe is amazing, but Jordan was just magical.

jzstud4
09-23-2010, 07:50 PM
but where would he rank ?

VRP723
09-23-2010, 07:52 PM
Unless Kobe finds a time machine and stops Michael Jordan from being born, he'll never be the best.

masalex1205
09-23-2010, 07:53 PM
If Kobe and the Lakers beat the all mighty heat and Kobe has 2 ... 3 peats just like Jordan and actually been to 8 and he is on pace to pass jordan in all time scoring history would Kobe be better than Jordan and claim his right as the best bball player ever !? and if he isnt where does he rank ? 123 or maybe 567 ?

:facepalm:

Two-3
09-23-2010, 07:54 PM
Unless Kobe finds a time machine and stops Michael Jordan from being born, he'll never be the best.

:clap:

ewing
09-23-2010, 07:55 PM
If Kobe and the Lakers beat the all mighty heat and Kobe has 2 ... 3 peats just like Jordan and actually been to 8 and he is on pace to pass jordan in all time scoring history would Kobe be better than Jordan and claim his right as the best bball player ever !? and if he isnt where does he rank ? 123 or maybe 567 ?


Kobe is a great basketball player and definately one of the best i've ever seen but it Micheal Jordan was just a better player so there really isn't anything he can do to surpass him excpet become a better player which at this stage of his career is quite a tall order.

Bruno
09-23-2010, 07:56 PM
If Kobe wins another title with the Lakers and passes Wilt/Shaq/Jordan in all-time points, I don't see how anybody could keep him out of their top 5. Especially if he wins another MVP, or continues to play at an all-nba level into his mid 30's.

Kobe just isn't MJ physically. He wasn't born with those billion dollar hands.

Teeboy1487
09-23-2010, 07:57 PM
Jordan will always be the best no question. Kobe knows that. Kobe can only cement his own legacy but passing Jordan is insurmountable.

HeaTxRipZz
09-23-2010, 07:59 PM
Agreed with VRP723

I will say Kobe is an amazing talent......noone comes close to him in the league today but he will never dethrone Jordan as GOAT for a number of reasons

Say Kobe does get 8 titles does that take away Jordan's 6 titles, 5 MVP years, 10x all nba team, 9x all defensive 1st team, 2 gold medals, 6x finals MVP. I can see Kobe getting close to a few achievements but overall still being under the great MJ he has way too many accomplishments and just the way he played the game and innovated it is something else alot of ppl forget

Robbw241
09-23-2010, 08:03 PM
If he wins another title he should be top 5. Where in the top 5 I dont know and frankly don't feel like analyzing where he should be.

WadeKobe
09-23-2010, 08:03 PM
hahaha, Kobe is so far behind it's not even funny. How many MVPs? How many finals MVPs? DPOY?

Not a chance. Michael and it will never be close.

Wade>You
09-23-2010, 08:04 PM
By the time the people here are done, they'll speak of Kobe as if he is Jordan.

WadeKobe
09-23-2010, 08:07 PM
Oh, yea. Not to mention that Kobe's first three rings came as a #2 fiddle with Shaq putting up 3 of the 10 most dominant NBA Finals performances ever...

Not. Even. Close.

JordansBulls
09-23-2010, 08:10 PM
Kobe has a chance to be top 3-4 alltime, but he won't catch MJ. His prime wasn't dominant enough.

Hawkeye15
09-23-2010, 08:10 PM
nope. The Kobe/MJ comparisons are gone. Kobe will never be as good. He doesn't have the stats, and MJ is 6-0 in the finals, something Kobe can never dupicate. Kobe should indeed move into the top 10 at this point, and could land in the top 5 if he can win a couple more rings. But there is no way he touches Jordan.

_KB24_
09-23-2010, 08:12 PM
Oh, yea. Not to mention that Kobe's first three rings came as a #2 fiddle with Shaq putting up 3 of the 10 most dominant NBA Finals performances ever...

Not. Even. Close.

:laugh2:

Who's second fiddle for your Heat? Lebron or Wade? :laugh2:

Raps08-09 Champ
09-23-2010, 08:13 PM
He probably won't.

MJ has like 4 Finals MVP's on him and I think 4 MVP's on him.

He'll be close.

Though no one will probably touch MJ. Matching his titles, MVP's, etc won't be enough.

VinceCarter
09-23-2010, 08:14 PM
If Kobe and the Lakers beat the all mighty heat and Kobe has 2 ... 3 peats just like Jordan and actually been to 8 and he is on pace to pass jordan in all time scoring history would Kobe be better than Jordan and claim his right as the best bball player ever !? and if he isnt where does he rank ? 123 or maybe 567 ?

I don't know if he'd be 1st but I also don't think he'd be 123rd or 567th.

_KB24_
09-23-2010, 08:14 PM
Funny to hear some responses. Kobe cemented his spot in the Top 10 after 06 so i don;t even want to hear that ******** that he has just done it recently. Last year was the year I put him into my Top 5 and if he wins 2 more, I don't know how you can not put him second or third if you are ranking them without a sensitivity bias. He will finish as the 2nd greatest player this league has ever seen.

JordansBulls
09-23-2010, 08:15 PM
nope. The Kobe/MJ comparisons are gone. Kobe will never be as good. He doesn't have the stats, and MJ is 6-0 in the finals, something Kobe can never dupicate. Kobe should indeed move into the top 10 at this point, and could land in the top 5 if he can win a couple more rings. But there is no way he touches Jordan.

The 6-0 finals doesn't mean much to me.

IMO it is more about the statisical dominance of MJ. Only Kareem and Wilt have dominated around the same statistically as MJ and only Kareem and Russell have the accolades that MJ have. Russell won the most titles which is true, but he didn't have the stats.

PLAYOFFS
1. Michael Jordan* 28.59
2. George Mikan* 28.51
3. LeBron James 27.08
4. Shaquille O'Neal 26.16
5. Tim Duncan 25.74
6. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.69
7. Tracy McGrady 24.66
8. Dirk Nowitzki 24.66
9. Charles Barkley* 24.18
10. Dwyane Wade 24.04


REGULAR SEASON
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 26.86
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.59
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.67
7. Bob Pettit* 25.37
8. Tim Duncan 25.02
9. Neil Johnston* 24.72
10. Charles Barkley* 24.63
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
12. Magic Johnson* 24.11

MJ led in Playoff Win Shares 7x and Russell 5x. The most for any player

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career_p.html

1. Michael Jordan* 39.76
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 35.56
3. Magic Johnson* 32.63
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.46
5. Shaquille O'Neal 31.08
6. Tim Duncan 28.61
7. Bill Russell* 27.76
8. Julius Erving* 26.89
9. Jerry West* 26.75
10. Kobe Bryant 26.12


MJ led in Season Win Shares 9x and Wilt and Kareem as well led in it 9x. The most for any player

MJ led in Playoff Offensive Win Shares 7x and Jerry West 6x and Magic 4x. The most for any player

MJ led in Offensive Win Shares 8x and Kareem 6x and Neil Johnson 5x and Wilt 4x. The most for any player

Kareem led in Playoff PER 7x and MJ 6x (also led in it in 1986 with a 30 PER, so really 7x) and Wilt 6x. The most for any player

Kareem led in WS Per 48 Minutes 9x and MJ 8x and Wilt 8x, the most for any player

1. Michael Jordan* 0.2505
2. David Robinson* 0.2502
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 0.2480
4. Neil Johnston* 0.2413
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 0.2284
6. Magic Johnson* 0.2249
7. LeBron James 0.2242
8. Tim Duncan 0.2190
9. Manu Ginobili 0.2167
10. Charles Barkley* 0.2163


MJ and Kareem both led in WS per 48 Minutes in the playoffs 5x, the most for any Player.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_career_p.html

1. Michael Jordan* 0.2553
2. George Mikan* 0.2541
3. LeBron James 0.2287
4. Magic Johnson* 0.2078
5. Dirk Nowitzki 0.2059
6. Tim Duncan 0.2037
7. Jerry West* 0.2031
8. Wilt Chamberlain* 0.1998
9. David Robinson* 0.1992


I will credit Kobe though because other than MJ, Kobe will probably have the best winning % of a player while having HCA.

Right now MJ was 24-0 in series with HCA and I believe Kobe only lost 1 series with HCA thus far.

justinnum1
09-23-2010, 08:15 PM
:laugh2:

Who's second fiddle for your Heat? Lebron or Wade? :laugh2:

Lebron. Duh.

valade16
09-23-2010, 08:21 PM
Funny to hear some responses. Kobe cemented his spot in the Top 10 after 06 so i don;t even want to hear that ******** that he has just done it recently. Last year was the year I put him into my Top 5 and if he wins 2 more, I don't know how you can not put him second or third if you are ranking them without a sensitivity bias. He will finish as the 2nd greatest player this league has ever seen.

I'd imagine the people that rank him 3rd, 4th, or 5th don't have an age bias.

I.e. they've been watching the NBA longer than Kobe has been in the league.

Seriously, it's almost an insult to the game to not even consider guys like Kareem, Wilt, Bird, or Magic at or above Kobe...

goku
09-23-2010, 08:31 PM
Lebron. Duh.


:rolleyes: how is your best player the second option


and kobe will not be better than mj ....he might be the closest we will ever have

Raidaz4Life
09-23-2010, 08:46 PM
When its all said and done he'll be top 5.

NYKalltheway
09-23-2010, 08:55 PM
the term Greatest Player of All Time is cemented with Michael Jordan's name on it.

If another player is born that will do what Jordan did and more, in an equally or more competitive league, then yes, Michael Jordan could become #2 in the NBA.

You guys are forgetting that Michael Jordan retired after his three-peat for a while, then came back and won another one. If he hadn't, who knows, he could have won 10 in a row and have better numbers as well at the end of the day

Bruno
09-23-2010, 09:08 PM
The 6-0 finals doesn't mean much to me.

IMO it is more about the statisical dominance of MJ. Only Kareem and Wilt have dominated around the same statistically as MJ and only Kareem and Russell have the accolades that MJ have. Russell won the most titles which is true, but he didn't have the stats.

PLAYOFFS
1. Michael Jordan* 28.59
2. George Mikan* 28.51
3. LeBron James 27.08
4. Shaquille O'Neal 26.16
5. Tim Duncan 25.74
6. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.69
7. Tracy McGrady 24.66
8. Dirk Nowitzki 24.66
9. Charles Barkley* 24.18
10. Dwyane Wade 24.04


REGULAR SEASON
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 26.86
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.59
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.67
7. Bob Pettit* 25.37
8. Tim Duncan 25.02
9. Neil Johnston* 24.72
10. Charles Barkley* 24.63
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
12. Magic Johnson* 24.11

MJ led in Playoff Win Shares 7x and Russell 5x. The most for any player

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career_p.html

1. Michael Jordan* 39.76
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 35.56
3. Magic Johnson* 32.63
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.46
5. Shaquille O'Neal 31.08
6. Tim Duncan 28.61
7. Bill Russell* 27.76
8. Julius Erving* 26.89
9. Jerry West* 26.75
10. Kobe Bryant 26.12


MJ led in Season Win Shares 9x and Wilt and Kareem as well led in it 9x. The most for any player

MJ led in Playoff Offensive Win Shares 7x and Jerry West 6x and Magic 4x. The most for any player

MJ led in Offensive Win Shares 8x and Kareem 6x and Neil Johnson 5x and Wilt 4x. The most for any player

Kareem led in Playoff PER 7x and MJ 6x (also led in it in 1986 with a 30 PER, so really 7x) and Wilt 6x. The most for any player

Kareem led in WS Per 48 Minutes 9x and MJ 8x and Wilt 8x, the most for any player

1. Michael Jordan* 0.2505
2. David Robinson* 0.2502
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 0.2480
4. Neil Johnston* 0.2413
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 0.2284
6. Magic Johnson* 0.2249
7. LeBron James 0.2242
8. Tim Duncan 0.2190
9. Manu Ginobili 0.2167
10. Charles Barkley* 0.2163


MJ and Kareem both led in WS per 48 Minutes in the playoffs 5x, the most for any Player.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_career_p.html

1. Michael Jordan* 0.2553
2. George Mikan* 0.2541
3. LeBron James 0.2287
4. Magic Johnson* 0.2078
5. Dirk Nowitzki 0.2059
6. Tim Duncan 0.2037
7. Jerry West* 0.2031
8. Wilt Chamberlain* 0.1998
9. David Robinson* 0.1992


I will credit Kobe though because other than MJ, Kobe will probably have the best winning % of a player while having HCA.

Right now MJ was 24-0 in series with HCA and I believe Kobe only lost 1 series with HCA thus far.

Considering all this, it's strange how more people don't make an argument for KAJ as the GOAT. If not the GOAT, at least the clear cut #2.

Bruno
09-23-2010, 09:10 PM
^Especially since he has just as many titles, and more MVPs than MJ. Even beyond his advanced stats, he matches Jordan in winning/personal accolades.

_KB24_
09-23-2010, 09:35 PM
I'd imagine the people that rank him 3rd, 4th, or 5th don't have an age bias.

I.e. they've been watching the NBA longer than Kobe has been in the league.

Seriously, it's almost an insult to the game to not even consider guys like Kareem, Wilt, Bird, or Magic at or above Kobe...

He would have surpassed everyone above in titles and Finals MVPs and would have more accolades and records than the above, sans Kareem. I would put Kobe over Kareem for the same reason its a near unanimous Magic over Kareem, Kobe was a bigger figure to the game.

JordansBulls
09-23-2010, 09:40 PM
^Especially since he has just as many titles, and more MVPs than MJ. Even beyond his advanced stats, he matches Jordan in winning/personal accolades.

I agree that Kareem has a strong case to be GOAT, as does Russell, but I believe MJ has the strongest case for GOAT.

IMO, MJ and Kareem are 1a and 1b, but what hurts Kareem is that for half of his titles he not only had a player better than he was on his team, but the fact he had a player that was either the best player in the league (1987) or 2nd best player in the league (1988 and 1985) on his team.


With Kareem he was great statisically but people forget that once Oscar left the team went from 59 wins to 38 wins and didn't make the playoffs.
Kareem gets traded to the Lakers and the Bucks the team Kareem was on the previous year makes the playoffs while Kareem on his new team did not.
Also there were 2 series where he was hands down favorite and lost the 1st series he played. 1973 vs Golden State and 1981 vs Houston. Those series are inexcusable.

jackdawson
09-24-2010, 01:51 AM
One more title will probably bring Kobe around my top ten. But don't even dream or **** around MJ. Only young Kids who started watching basketball around 2005 will make these kind of stupid threads.

kobe_23chembace
09-24-2010, 06:58 AM
One more title will probably bring Kobe around my top ten. But don't even dream or **** around MJ. Only young Kids who started watching
basketball around 2005 will make these kind of stupid threads.
:laugh2:

ET92898
09-24-2010, 07:31 AM
MJ will always be the best no matter what.