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spreadeagle
09-23-2010, 12:35 AM
GREENBURGH, N.Y. -- If Donnie Walsh hadn't traded a 2012 first-round draft pick to Houston last February when he was in salary-dump mode, he might have possessed enough assets to acquire Carmelo Anthony before the start of training camp.

But that pick is gone, and the president of the New York Knicks can't stop wondering whether he made a monumental mistake.

"I'll second-guess myself forever on that," Walsh said Wednesday in a sitdown with reporters who regularly cover the team.

Walsh sent the Knicks' 2012 first-round pick, plus the right to swap first-round picks in 2011, to the Rockets along with Jared Jeffries and Jordan Hill in the deal that brought Tracy McGrady to the Knicks.

Walsh made the trade to clear enough cap space to make a run at two max-salary free agents, but the Knicks struck out in their attempts to land LeBron James and Chris Bosh, settling instead for Amare Stoudemire and Raymond Felton.

With Anthony now on the trade market, and with the Knicks one of his preferred destinations as ESPN.com's Mark Stein and Chad Ford are reporting, Walsh has all the assets the Nuggets are seeking -- a large, expiring contract, belonging to Eddy Curry, and young talent such as Anthony Randolph, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Toney Douglas -- except for the future No. 1 pick(s) that Denver desires.
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&id=5604785 more of story

GodsSon
09-23-2010, 12:40 AM
Simple...Give up both Gallo and Chandler instead of the 1st

Sandman
09-23-2010, 12:53 AM
That was a stupid move. Technically 3 straight first round picks depending on where Houston/New York finish.

SouthSideRookie
09-23-2010, 12:59 AM
I've been saying this for quite sometime but Knick fans always downplay it.

gbrl
09-23-2010, 12:59 AM
just give randolph to the pacers and we will give our first to denver :D

Rashidi
09-23-2010, 01:09 AM
It's only stupid because they didn't land LeBron.

Tough to fault Walsh on this one since they were VERY MUCH correct in assuming LeBron wouldn't sign without another max player.

They struck out on that, but let's be honest: Melo isn't a franchise player like any of the three kings are, and it's tough to see how he fits with Amare Stoudemire.

Keep praying for CP3 and keep it moving. Gallinari may not be as talented but he's surely a better fit next to Amare.

jeter 2
09-23-2010, 01:11 AM
He should be regretting not trading Nate and Jefferies for Kenny Thomas a year before and not drafting Brandon Jennings. Those are just 2 mistakes to start off with.

Giaps
09-23-2010, 01:16 AM
Oh god here we go....

No trade means less cap space.. Amare at $17 million then D-Lee can't be signed-and-traded for Randolph etc. for $15 million. Rather have Randolph than a 2012 pick.

We then used the rest of that on Felton, Mozgov, Mason, Ewing Jr.

Mudvayne91
09-23-2010, 01:18 AM
I've been saying this for quite sometime but Knick fans always downplay it.

Now that doesn't sound like any Knicks fans I know.

Afridi786
09-23-2010, 01:20 AM
That was a ******** trade, that and the fact they kept passing on point guards in the draft.

SouthSideRookie
09-23-2010, 01:27 AM
Now that doesn't sound like any Knicks fans I know.

Yeah go figure, even after the man himself comes out and admits it, they still wont admit it :facepalm:

TEXASTITAN
09-23-2010, 01:34 AM
Just another GM Daryl Morey has fleeced out of his assets. But we appreciate the picks down in Houston and if we use them to get carmello wouldn't that just make Donnie want to jump out a window.

ChiSox219
09-23-2010, 01:34 AM
Obligatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_cjTjBsysc

SouthSideRookie
09-23-2010, 01:41 AM
Obligatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_cjTjBsysc

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

bkmikeyy
09-23-2010, 01:51 AM
Oh god here we go....

No trade means less cap space.. Amare at $17 million then D-Lee can't be signed-and-traded for Randolph etc. for $15 million. Rather have Randolph than a 2012 pick.

We then used the rest of that on Felton, Mozgov, Mason, Ewing Jr.

I really don't think people get it. If Knicks don't do this trade they have to let Lee walk because they could not have made a trade like that with the Warriors. Give me Randolph over a 2012 pick any day. Azibukee and Turiaf are also a nice pieces probably worth more to the Knicks than that bust Jordan Hill. It also allowed the Knicks to sign Felton which gives them a solid PG to play with Amare (I know the Knicks "missed out" on overrated Brandon Jennings).

Plus it gave them a fighters chance of becoming the best team in the league for the next decade overnight. Was it a gamble? sure. But they gambled and still got nice pieces out of it.

How come we aren't discussing how Paxson regrets giving away Hinrich and the 17th pick for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? (very good chance the Knicks 2012 pick is not lower or at least significantly than that). Hinrich and the 17th pick are not much worse than Hill and a 2012 pick from a team that will most likely not be a bottom 10 team in the league.

Or how about the Nets giving away Yi for free and then refusing to take on Beasely for the expiring contract of Keyon Dooling because they were scared to take up cap space? Then when they realized they missed out they spent 35 million on Outlaw, a player who plays Beasely's position and has less potential.

Every team that had a shot gambled this summer, but the Knicks recovered nicely and got Amare, Randolph, Felton, Bukee, Turiaf, Mozgov (ESPN had an article on how he would have been a 1st rounder this year) out of it.

spreadeagle
09-23-2010, 01:59 AM
I really don't think people get it. If Knicks don't do this trade they have to let Lee walk because they could not have made a trade like that with the Warriors. Give me Randolph over a 2012 pick any day. Azibukee and Turiaf are also a nice pieces probably worth more to the Knicks than that bust Jordan Hill. It also allowed the Knicks to sign Felton which gives them a solid PG to play with Amare (I know the Knicks "missed out" on overrated Brandon Jennings).

Plus it gave them a fighters chance of becoming the best team in the league for the next decade overnight. Was it a gamble? sure. But they gambled and still got nice pieces out of it.

How come we aren't discussing how Paxson regrets giving away Hinrich and the 17th pick for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? (very good chance the Knicks 2012 pick is not lower or at least significantly than that). Hinrich and the 17th pick are not much worse than Hill and a 2012 pick from a team that will most likely not be a bottom 10 team in the league.

Or how about the Nets giving away Yi for free and then refusing to take on Beasely for the expiring contract of Keyon Dooling because they were scared to take up cap space? Then when they realized they missed out they spent 35 million on Outlaw, a player who plays Beasely's position and has less potential.

Every team that had a shot gambled this summer, but the Knicks recovered nicely and got Amare, Randolph, Felton, Bukee, Turiaf, Mozgov (ESPN had an article on how he would have been a 1st rounder this year) out of it.

They got Bukkake'd!!!???? ohhhh I see:D

THE MTL
09-23-2010, 02:10 AM
Without that money we cleared from the Jeffries trade out 2010 summer would have been over before it started! We HAD to be in the race for Lebron and without clearing Jeffries contract we wouldnt have been given so much as an interview cause Lebron would 100% be coming to NYC alone.

We maybe wouldnt have gotten Amare. And couldnt have gotten a quality PG in Felton.

Everything Carmelo related is pure speculation. The Denver organization and Carmelo Anthony have not come forward and said ONE WORD!!! Ppl are just assuming and trying to piece together stuff.

SouthSideRookie
09-23-2010, 02:11 AM
I really don't think people get it. If Knicks don't do this trade they have to let Lee walk because they could not have made a trade like that with the Warriors. Give me Randolph over a 2012 pick any day. Azibukee and Turiaf are also a nice pieces probably worth more to the Knicks than that bust Jordan Hill. It also allowed the Knicks to sign Felton which gives them a solid PG to play with Amare (I know the Knicks "missed out" on overrated Brandon Jennings).

Plus it gave them a fighters chance of becoming the best team in the league for the next decade overnight. Was it a gamble? sure. But they gambled and still got nice pieces out of it.

How come we aren't discussing how Paxson regrets giving away Hinrich and the 17th pick for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? (very good chance the Knicks 2012 pick is not lower or at least significantly than that). Hinrich and the 17th pick are not much worse than Hill and a 2012 pick from a team that will most likely not be a bottom 10 team in the league.

Or how about the Nets giving away Yi for free and then refusing to take on Beasely for the expiring contract of Keyon Dooling because they were scared to take up cap space? Then when they realized they missed out they spent 35 million on Outlaw, a player who plays Beasely's position and has less potential.

Every team that had a shot gambled this summer, but the Knicks recovered nicely and got Amare, Randolph, Felton, Bukee, Turiaf, Mozgov (ESPN had an article on how he would have been a 1st rounder this year) out of it.

:facepalm:

In regards to this article, Walsh is mainly referring to the draft considerations. The Bulls and Nets still have some first rounders galore. The Knicks because of the trade do not. So it would even be worse if because of this trade the Knicks missed out on Carmelo after they struck out on Lebron.

michelangelo
09-23-2010, 02:13 AM
The Knicks are approaching LA Clipper levels of futility.

ChiSox219
09-23-2010, 02:17 AM
I really don't think people get it. If Knicks don't do this trade they have to let Lee walk because they could not have made a trade like that with the Warriors. Give me Randolph over a 2012 pick any day. Azibukee and Turiaf are also a nice pieces probably worth more to the Knicks than that bust Jordan Hill. It also allowed the Knicks to sign Felton which gives them a solid PG to play with Amare (I know the Knicks "missed out" on overrated Brandon Jennings).

Plus it gave them a fighters chance of becoming the best team in the league for the next decade overnight. Was it a gamble? sure. But they gambled and still got nice pieces out of it.

How come we aren't discussing how Paxson regrets giving away Hinrich and the 17th pick for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? (very good chance the Knicks 2012 pick is not lower or at least significantly than that). Hinrich and the 17th pick are not much worse than Hill and a 2012 pick from a team that will most likely not be a bottom 10 team in the league.

Or how about the Nets giving away Yi for free and then refusing to take on Beasely for the expiring contract of Keyon Dooling because they were scared to take up cap space? Then when they realized they missed out they spent 35 million on Outlaw, a player who plays Beasely's position and has less potential.

Every team that had a shot gambled this summer, but the Knicks recovered nicely and got Amare, Randolph, Felton, Bukee, Turiaf, Mozgov (ESPN had an article on how he would have been a 1st rounder this year) out of it.

Knicks could have waited and made a similar trade in the off-season if they had two major free agents interested.

The Bulls were able to dump Kirk Hinrich with a mid-1st round pick and he had 2 years/$17 million left on his deal. Are you telling me the Knicks couldn't do something similar with Jeffries 1yr/$6.8m + Jordan Hill?

bkmikeyy
09-23-2010, 02:21 AM
Knicks could have waited and made a similar trade in the off-season if they had two major free agents interested.

The Bulls were able to dump Kirk Hinrich with a mid-1st round pick and he had 2 years/$17 million left on his deal. Are you telling me the Knicks couldn't do something similar with Jeffries 1yr/$6.8m + Jordan Hill?

Hinrich has value, he is actually a solid player the Bulls will most likely miss... Jeffries has none. Plus anyone who has watched Jordan Hill play knows that he pretty much has no value either. If I am a GM I will take the 17th pick over Hill. The real mistake was taking Hill in the first place.... but that's a different story.

JB0B0
09-23-2010, 02:24 AM
thankfully the bulls kept their picks and have charlotte's 2012 first rounder as well :)

Kashmir13579
09-23-2010, 02:24 AM
That was a ******** trade, that and the fact they kept passing on point guards in the draft.

a fact? rubio, flynn, and curry got drafted right before the knicks. we ended up getting toney douglas anyway. is douglas not a point guard? as far as this thread goes, that trade was necessary at the time. we still have the cap room to do what we please. if melo wants to go to new york, the nuggets really have no other option than to take what NY is offering. nobodies gonna give away anything for somebody that won't be there for more than a year. i could see us giving up wilson chandler, toney douglas, currys expiring, 2nd round picks, and cash. eventually denver will have to make a trade or just let him go.... we can wait a season to get him if need be.. everyone thinks he won't leave the money on the table going into a new CBA. the reason that is untrue is because melo knows he'll make up for a smaller contract with the endorsements that come from playing on the most popular team in the nba. his jersey sales on the knicks alone will make up for a smaller contract. if he wants to go to new york and nowhere else (thats a big if), he might just have to wait a year.

llemon
09-23-2010, 02:25 AM
Or how about the Nets giving away Yi for free and then refusing to take on Beasely for the expiring contract of Keyon Dooling because they were scared to take up cap space? Then when they realized they missed out they spent 35 million on Outlaw, a player who plays Beasely's position and has less potential.

Knicks did okay with their capspace, but as far as the Nets, I thought we would have to include a draft pick to get rid of Yi, and Nets didn't want Beasley because he has psychological problems and no position, and Nets weren't looking to help Heat clean up their draft mistake, like that damned idiot Kahn was.

ChiSox219
09-23-2010, 02:36 AM
Hinrich has value, he is actually a solid player the Bulls will most likely miss... Jeffries has none. Plus anyone who has watched Jordan Hill play knows that he pretty much has no value either. If I am a GM I will take the 17th pick over Hill. The real mistake was taking Hill in the first place.... but that's a different story.

There's not a huge gap in their (Hinrich/Jeffries) value, certainly not $10+ million.

Apparently Morey and the Rockets think Jeffries is of some value, they played him nearly 20 minutes per night while they tried to push for the playoffs.


Not sure if you saw Jordan Hill play after he was traded because he had a nice stretch with Houston, especially for a rookie.

scutch11
09-23-2010, 02:52 AM
can we at least watch the team play ONE GAME before we bash the 2010-11 knicks. bash the knicks from last year all you want, but this is a completely overhauled roster. if we still suck at mid-season, then fine bash away. but until then, and until we see what happens with melo, easy with the knicks hate

abe_froman
09-23-2010, 03:00 AM
can we at least watch the team play ONE GAME before we bash the 2010-11 knicks. bash the knicks from last year all you want, but this is a completely overhauled roster. if we still suck at mid-season, then fine bash away. but until then, and until we see what happens with melo, easy with the knicks hate

this really isnt a bashing of the current knicks though,its just the gm lamenting on giving up to much in the tmac deal

fadedmario
09-23-2010, 03:11 AM
the Knicks are the worst run franchise in the NBA

dodie53
09-23-2010, 03:58 AM
knick ain't getting Melo anyway

Giaps
09-23-2010, 09:02 AM
the Knicks are the worst run franchise in the NBA

The Knicks are approaching LA Clipper levels of futility.
You're so ignorant that there aren't enough words to truly explain how much.

5+7=DYNASTY!!!
09-23-2010, 09:21 AM
It worked out in the end IMO. Without money for two maxes Amare probably doesn't come here, which means the Knicks overpay David Lee, and don't get to acquire Randolph, Turiaf, and KA.

nycericanguy
09-23-2010, 09:21 AM
That was a stupid move. Technically 3 straight first round picks depending on where Houston/New York finish.

:confused:

Weezy
09-23-2010, 09:24 AM
You're so ignorant that there aren't enough words to truly explain how much.

Dont even bother comments like those man.. :laugh2:

Anyways... yea this was a bad move and I did not like it from the start but whats done is done and Walsh admits it. Get over it and move on. If this was Isiah he would probably still leave a stupid smile for the whole world to see.

29$JerZ
09-23-2010, 09:37 AM
Knicks could have waited and made a similar trade in the off-season if they had two major free agents interested.

The Bulls were able to dump Kirk Hinrich with a mid-1st round pick and he had 2 years/$17 million left on his deal. Are you telling me the Knicks couldn't do something similar with Jeffries 1yr/$6.8m + Jordan Hill?

Hinrich is a Pg with a decreasing contract and a mentor to Wall.
Jared Jefferies had a trade kicker, is being paid like a top defender when he isn't even above average, and with him on the books Houston had no participation in 2010 summer. Two complete different situations, Hinrich actually helps a team since he is a PG. What does Jared help a team with? Drawing Charges and missing layups for 7-8 million.


the Knicks are the worst run franchise in the NBA

Besides this being completely untrue and ignorant I'll say you should get your mind set off the Isiah/Layden Knicks era.

Giaps
09-23-2010, 09:40 AM
All the Knicks gave up was 1 1st rounder and a potential swap of another. People who are too lazy to do their research will tell you it's 2-3 picks...

29$JerZ
09-23-2010, 09:42 AM
As for the thread everyone should understand why he did the trade.
You can't honestly expect to not make a move for Bosh/Wade/LeBron and then say forget them Melo will surely come here!

Jared trade helped fill the PG/C positions for us. We traded Jared and Jordan for Felton/Mozgov which is a win in its own; Jared is horrible. 2011 pick is still ours, we are going to be a playoff team or at worst a 9th-10th seed so swapping isn't a huge deal. Trade allowed us to get something for Lee and role players + Randolph > 2012 pick where we are suppose to be a playoff team by then.

It was Jared + Jordan + 2011 swap and 2012 pick

If we don't do it we have only Room for 1 Max which means Lee gets resigned to that ridiculous contract. No PG.

With the trade we have Felton/Mozgov/Amar'e/Randolph/Ronny/Kelenna on our roster

knickerbockerny
09-23-2010, 09:46 AM
I'm sick of Donnie Walsh as the Knicks GM. There are no do over buttons when you are controlling the personnell of a franchise.

It's just frustrating for him to knowinly acknowledge that he is making mistakes. At least go to the grave thinking you made the right move. He also admitted he messed up during the 09 draft.

These are moves that a non experience gm or a fan would not have made in the first place. Two picks and a prospect to drop 6.8 millon, come on. If he would have waited until June, like the Bulls and Heat did to clear cap and do something drastic, he would have heard the rumblings that Lebron was not interested in NY, and went in another direction.

Drafting a pf when the Knicks obviously needed a point guard in a draft with about 7-8 point guards with starter potential.

Trading and all star power forward in Lee for a back-up center (Turiaf), and two players who barely played half the season last year, one of which is a expiring that would not be here next year. "If" and that's a big "IF" Randolph reaches his full potential he is going to put up David Lee numbers 20 pts 11.7 rbs 3 ast, so why not keep the sure thing.

It's mind blowing! Don't admit your mistakes at least!

Giaps
09-23-2010, 10:06 AM
I'm sick of Donnie Walsh as the Knicks GM. There are no do over buttons when you are controlling the personnell of a franchise.
You're sick of him as you quote Stoudemire and have a picture of 5 new players that Donnie Walsh brought in your sig. You make no sense.

knickerbockerny
09-23-2010, 10:29 AM
You're sick of him as you quote Stoudemire and have a picture of 5 new players that Donnie Walsh brought in your sig. You make no sense.

I'm going to support the Knicks no matter what, because this is my boy hood team, but riddle me this, what gm in any sport comes out and publicly regrets a personnel move? Mind you he has done this twice.

Now as a fan should I have confidence in him that he knows what he is doing or that he has a clear vision for the team?

avrpatsfan
09-23-2010, 10:33 AM
It's only stupid because they didn't land LeBron.

Tough to fault Walsh on this one since they were VERY MUCH correct in assuming LeBron wouldn't sign without another max player.

They struck out on that, but let's be honest: Melo isn't a franchise player like any of the three kings are, and it's tough to see how he fits with Amare Stoudemire.

Keep praying for CP3 and keep it moving. Gallinari may not be as talented but he's surely a better fit next to Amare.
How is Melo not a franchise player and Bosh is?

mjt20mik
09-23-2010, 10:33 AM
They struck out on that, but let's be honest: Melo isn't a franchise player like any of the three kings are, and it's tough to see how he fits with Amare Stoudemire.



I'm sorry but Bosh isn't a franchise player. Just saying.

beasted86
09-23-2010, 10:35 AM
He should be regretting not trading Nate and Jefferies for Kenny Thomas a year before

BINGO!

Especially since D'Antoni put Nate in the dog house.

Hellcrooner
09-23-2010, 10:38 AM
H hsouldnt second guess himselg.

If nots is fault some chap made him believe they had a locked deal with them before panicking like a schoolgirl and deciding oto go join a mob.

Giaps
09-23-2010, 10:39 AM
I'm going to support the Knicks no matter what, because this is my boy hood team, but riddle me this, what gm in any sport comes out and publicly regrets a personnel move? Mind you he has done this twice.
He never said he regretted it, only that he second guessed himself and I love his honesty. The truth is there were a lot of good things that came out of it (S&T of Lee for GSW players, signing our other FAs) and some bad (trading a 1st round pick). Walsh is as honest as it gets and it's a breath of fresh air.

And you must like Stoudemire for you to have him in your sig like that. Thank Walsh for that.

Now as a fan should I have confidence in him that he knows what he is doing or that he has a clear vision for the team?
If you don't have confidence in him now then you never will and you're free to have that opinion. Me personally, I understand that he was dealt a bad hand and I think he did a great job considering. We have the youngest team we've had in 30 years, one of the best players in the league, some guys with star potential and the most optimism this franchise has had in a decade. Don't see how you can't appreciate that especially after we went through Layden and Isiah.

Lo Porto
09-23-2010, 10:42 AM
The worst move Walsh made was passing on Sacramento's offer of Kenny Thomas for Nate Robinson and Jared Jeffries 2 years ago. Had he taken that deal, NY would have never had to deal Hill or any picks because that TMac deal was all about dumping Jeffries.

It's too bad NY fans made Walsh feel that Nate was more important than he actually was.

RazNYC
09-23-2010, 10:44 AM
eddy curry randolph wilson chandler deal set keep galo no matter what

NYKNYGNYY
09-23-2010, 10:46 AM
donnie donnnie donnie :facepalm:

beasted86
09-23-2010, 10:47 AM
With the trade we have Felton/Mozgov/Amar'e/Randolph/Ronny/Kelenna on our roster

Just like you got straight to the point with what you gave up... Lets get straight to the point with what you got. The Knicks already had the cap space to sign 1 max, and 1 role player... so I don't get why you include Amare & Felton.

Anyway....

Mozgov: potential
Randolph: potential
Ronny: Barely useful expirer you won't re-sign if all works out with getting Melo + developing Mozgov/Randolph/etc..
Kelenna: Coming off a serious injury and probably won't ever be the same, also see above comment with trying to get Melo.

beasted86
09-23-2010, 10:50 AM
eddy curry randolph wilson chandler deal set keep galo no matter what

As long as the team gets 100% assured Carmelo will sign an extension once traded, you could honestly give away the whole team barring Amare & more future picks.

All that matters is if Carmelo will re-sign, not so much what you trade away.

knickerbockerny
09-23-2010, 10:52 AM
He never said he regretted it, only that he second guessed himself and I love his honesty. The truth is there were a lot of good things that came out of it (S&T of Lee for GSW players, signing our other FAs) and some bad (trading a 1st round pick). Walsh is as honest as it gets and it's a breath of fresh air.

And you must like Stoudemire for you to have him in your sig like that. Thank Walsh for that.

If you don't have confidence in him now then you never will and you're free to have that opinion. Me personally, I understand that he was dealt a bad hand and I think he did a great job considering. We have the youngest team we've had in 30 years, one of the best players in the league, some guys with star potential and the most optimism this franchise has had in a decade. Don't see how you can't appreciate that especially after we went through Layden and Isiah.

I do like Amare, but lets not act like it was not because of the money, that he is even on the Knicks. He would have rather stayed on Phoenix or be in Miami if he had it his way. I don't attribute that acquisition to Donnie Walsh.

As for Isiah, Layden and Donnie. It is like you once dated a fat ugly girl and then you broke up with her to date a butter-face girl with a nice body. You clearly ungraded with the butter-face girl over the fat ugly girl, but you still know that you can do better.

Quite frankly I can't come to give Donnie much credit because the players that he traded on "un-tradeable contracts" have all gotten traded again by their new clubs.

knicksfan42
09-23-2010, 10:57 AM
..
Kelenna: Coming off a serious injury and probably won't ever be the same, also see above comment with trying to get Melo.

Plenty of players come off of serious injuries and recover just fine, but I understand that its convenient for you to write that, to justify your hating on the Knicks.

Crackadalic
09-23-2010, 10:58 AM
what happens in the past is in the past even if its bad the knicks got a nice team 6th youngest in the league and we still have a pick next year plus cap space for next year so idk what people are complaining about

Da Knicks
09-23-2010, 11:01 AM
The worst move Walsh made was passing on Sacramento's offer of Kenny Thomas for Nate Robinson and Jared Jeffries 2 years ago. Had he taken that deal, NY would have never had to deal Hill or any picks because that TMac deal was all about dumping Jeffries.

It's too bad NY fans made Walsh feel that Nate was more important than he actually was.

That was only a rumor from sources! The truth is that if that deal would of being in place it would have being done. Funny how most people think they know how to run a franchise but know absolutley nothing about it.:rolleyes:

slyone_nyc
09-23-2010, 11:03 AM
It's only stupid because they didn't land LeBron.

Tough to fault Walsh on this one since they were VERY MUCH correct in assuming LeBron wouldn't sign without another max player.

They struck out on that, but let's be honest: Melo isn't a franchise player like any of the three kings are, and it's tough to see how he fits with Amare Stoudemire.

Keep praying for CP3 and keep it moving. Gallinari may not be as talented but he's surely a better fit next to Amare.

''like any of the 3 kings'' im not to sure who the 3rd king is because bosh is DEFINITLY NOT A FRANCHISE PLAYER!!! im sure you didn't realise what you posted... and it was ONLY a bad move because we didnt land james like you said... donnie doesn't have a crystal ball, he did his best...

Giaps
09-23-2010, 11:03 AM
Just like you got straight to the point with what you gave up... Lets get straight to the point with what you got. The Knicks already had the cap space to sign 1 max, and 1 role player... so I don't get why you include Amare & Felton.

Anyway....

Mozgov: potential
Randolph: potential
Ronny: Barely useful expirer you won't re-sign if all works out with getting Melo + developing Mozgov/Randolph/etc..
Kelenna: Coming off a serious injury and probably won't ever be the same, also see above comment with trying to get Melo.
When is potential a bad thing?

And the Knicks can't sign and trade Lee for Randolph, Turiaf and Azubuike without the extra cap space. I'd rather have Randolph over the 2012 pick. And let's not make it seem like having 1 first round pick to trade would automatically get us Carmelo.

Giaps
09-23-2010, 11:12 AM
I do like Amare, but lets not act like it was not because of the money, that he is even on the Knicks. He would have rather stayed on Phoenix or be in Miami if he had it his way. I don't attribute that acquisition to Donnie Walsh.
That doesn't make any sense. Walsh offered him the money and he structured the contract. Who do you think Amare sat down with and negotiated the deal with?

And what about Felton? He was the best available PG on the market and he not only got him, but got him on a short 2 year deal, well below what he was looking to make. It's not just about who you get but how much you pay to get them

Same with Mozgov, 1 year guaranteed with the other 2 being team options.

If this was Isiah, he would have given 1 of them the MLE for sure!

Quite frankly I can't come to give Donnie much credit because the players that he traded on "un-tradeable contracts" have all gotten traded again by their new clubs.
The un-tradeable players were Marbury (waived), Randolph (subsequently traded for a bag of donuts to MEM), Crawford (same as Randolph to ATL), Jeffries (has not been traded again, useless player that had a trade kicker) and Curry (who is in fact untradeable).

My guess is this is more about you being unhappy with everything short of perfection. Not gonna happen.

Giaps
09-23-2010, 11:15 AM
As long as the team gets 100% assured Carmelo will sign an extension once traded, you could honestly give away the whole team barring Amare & more future picks.

All that matters is if Carmelo will re-sign, not so much what you trade away.
Really? So trade your whole team away to get a guy. This is what you would do as a GM? Didn't the Bulls not want to trade Deng for Kobe? What's the point of trading everyone when that guy has nobody else to play with? Amare and Melo would be one of the best duos in the league but Amare + Melo + Gallo + Randolph + Chandler + Felton would make them one of the best teams IMO and that's why the Knicks would rather sign him outright next year or just go to war with what they have.

According to reports:
The Bulls won't give up Noah
The Nets won't give up Favors or Lopez
The Rockets won't give up Martin
The Clippers won't give up Griffin or Gordon

So why should the Knicks trade everyone?

wtbaseball
09-23-2010, 11:17 AM
Sorry Donnie you have been MOREYED!!!!

futureman
09-23-2010, 11:32 AM
Wanted a superstar so badly that they settled for a washed up T-mac.

Giaps
09-23-2010, 11:33 AM
Wanted a superstar so badly that they settled for a washed up T-mac.
You think they traded for T-Mac because of his skill???

#C'mon son

king4day
09-23-2010, 11:46 AM
Just like you got straight to the point with what you gave up... Lets get straight to the point with what you got. The Knicks already had the cap space to sign 1 max, and 1 role player... so I don't get why you include Amare & Felton.

Anyway....

Mozgov: potential
Randolph: potential
Ronny: Barely useful expirer you won't re-sign if all works out with getting Melo + developing Mozgov/Randolph/etc..
Kelenna: Coming off a serious injury and probably won't ever be the same, also see above comment with trying to get Melo.

The Knicks did get some good role players with the money they had. They were also able to maintain their ability to pursue big name free agents over the next couple of years with the contracts they gave out.

The same story could be said of Miami had they not gotten Lebron and friends.

All considering, NY did a good job of putting together a competitive team without overspending.

arkanian215
09-23-2010, 11:47 AM
How come we aren't discussing how Paxson regrets giving away Hinrich and the 17th pick for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? (very good chance the Knicks 2012 pick is not lower or at least significantly than that). Hinrich and the 17th pick are not much worse than Hill and a 2012 pick from a team that will most likely not be a bottom 10 team in the league.

Or how about the Nets giving away Yi for free and then refusing to take on Beasely for the expiring contract of Keyon Dooling because they were scared to take up cap space? Then when they realized they missed out they spent 35 million on Outlaw, a player who plays Beasely's position and has less potential.

Every team that had a shot gambled this summer, but the Knicks recovered nicely and got Amare, Randolph, Felton, Bukee, Turiaf, Mozgov (ESPN had an article on how he would have been a 1st rounder this year) out of it.

lol cuz the thread is named: Knicks Donny Walsh says he regrets trade

oh btw, that Beasley for Dooling trade was bunk made up by some columnist. The trade wasn't even possible under salary cap rules. and Yi, he was terrible. You're right about the Outlaw signing though. turrible. but again this thread's about the Knicks.

29$JerZ
09-23-2010, 11:57 AM
Just like you got straight to the point with what you gave up... Lets get straight to the point with what you got. The Knicks already had the cap space to sign 1 max, and 1 role player... so I don't get why you include Amare & Felton.

Anyway....

Mozgov: potential
Randolph: potential
Ronny: Barely useful expirer you won't re-sign if all works out with getting Melo + developing Mozgov/Randolph/etc..
Kelenna: Coming off a serious injury and probably won't ever be the same, also see above comment with trying to get Melo.

Ok read this

If Donnie doesn't make the trade here is our team come 2010 summer

Wilson Chandler - 2.1 million
Danilo Gallinari - 3.3 million
Toney Douglas - 1 million
Jordan Hill - 3 million
Billy Walker less than 1 million
Jared Jefferies - 6.8 million
Eddy Curry - 11.2 million
Lee's Cap Hold

How do we get a lot of players to sign when 18 million is committed to 2 bad players and then keeping Lee's Cap Hold? Then you add our young core, at best we could only sign 1 Max player, tell me why LeBron/Wade/Bosh/Amar'e/Dirk would come to NY with over 1/3 of the CAP commited to Jared/Eddy and they'd get no additional help since all the CAP gets wasted on them?

The Jared trade allowed us to keep Lee's Bird rights despite him being an UFA which we then traded him for 2 solid role players and a lottery player Randolph. So if we took your advice and just kept Jared and Hill no max comes here, NY misses out on everyone, we probably lose Lee for nothing since his hold is to high and Lee isn't worth 13-14 million to a team with no star, and still have no PG/C. Great advice:rolleyes:

Giaps
09-23-2010, 12:01 PM
The Jared trade allowed us to keep Lee's Bird rights despite him being an UFA which we then traded him for 2 solid role players and a lottery player Randolph. So if we took your advice and just kept Lee and Hill no max comes here, NY misses out on everyone, we probably lose Lee for nothing, and still have no PG/C/star PF. Great advice:rolleyes:
The problem is that the reporters are not giving the whole story (like Lee's cap hold) and no other fan is going to know as much about the situation as we do of our own team. I don't mind debating something but it's annoying when all the info isn't there just so it can back the reporters agenda.

29$JerZ
09-23-2010, 12:07 PM
The problem is that the reporters are not giving the whole story (like Lee's cap hold) and no other fan is going to know as much about the situation as we do of our own team. I don't mind debating something but it's annoying when all the info isn't there just so it can back the reporters agenda.

It's the NBA forum, what'd you expect?

beasted86
09-23-2010, 12:07 PM
Lee isn't worth 13-14 million to a team with no star, and still have no PG/C. Great advice:rolleyes:

I never said you should have signed Lee. The point I was trying to make was assuming Amare signs with NY anyway (since nobody else was offering that much money), and since if you renounced Lee's cap hold you could have signed Felton outright anyway as well... the real trade was:

Jordan Hill
Jarred Jeffries
1 first round pick
1 right to swap

for

Randolph
Mozgov
Kelenna
Ronny

You basically traded 1 expiring role player + 3 potentials (Jordan Hill, 2 picks) for 1 expiring role player + 3 potentials (Randolph, Kelenna, basicall cap space to sign Mozgov).

It was really a lateral move.

beasted86
09-23-2010, 12:11 PM
The Knicks did get some good role players with the money they had. They were also able to maintain their ability to pursue big name free agents over the next couple of years with the contracts they gave out.

The same story could be said of Miami had they not gotten Lebron and friends.

All considering, NY did a good job of putting together a competitive team without overspending.

The only thing the Heat really gave up in the pursuit of cap space was our 2010 first round pick. Daequan Cook was trash anyway.

If we struck out we would still have had cap space to overpay a couple players, and all of our draft picks for the future.

Lo Porto
09-23-2010, 12:14 PM
That was only a rumor from sources! The truth is that if that deal would of being in place it would have being done. Funny how most people think they know how to run a franchise but know absolutley nothing about it.:rolleyes:

Sacramento reported that they approached the Knicks about Kenny Thomas for Nate and Jeffries right before that year's deadline. It never progressed because the Knicks shot it down because they thought so highly of Nate at the time. It wasn't just a rumor. Both sides confirmed that the talks never progressed.

I'm not saying I know how to run a franchise. I'm saying that I know how to read direct quotes from GM's.

rockets-fan
09-23-2010, 12:16 PM
Hinrich has value, he is actually a solid player the Bulls will most likely miss... Jeffries has none. Plus anyone who has watched Jordan Hill play knows that he pretty much has no value either. If I am a GM I will take the 17th pick over Hill. The real mistake was taking Hill in the first place.... but that's a different story.

just because the knicks didnt know how to use hill doesnt mean hes a bust...he played good in houston and in the summer league he was a beast. jordan hill has a lot of potential

Giaps
09-23-2010, 12:21 PM
You basically traded 1 expiring role player + 3 potentials (Jordan Hill, 2 picks) for 1 expiring role player + 3 potentials (Randolph, Kelenna, basicall cap space to sign Mozgov).

It was really a lateral move.
Wrong.

We traded:
A crap player, a rookie (who mind you was not performing well) and a 1st rounder. The right to swap is useless as we will still have a 1st rounder and will have our own if we have the better record.

We brought in:
Randolph
Turiaf
Azubuike
2nd round pick
Mozgov
Mason
Ewing Jr.

It also gave us the flexibility to FIRST S&T Lee and then go after Felton. Had we not done the trade, signed Amare then signed Felton we would have lost Lee's rights.

Again, I'll take Anthony Randolph over that 2012 pick every freakin time.

smuffins353
09-23-2010, 12:33 PM
NY fans are trippin'......don't feel bad though Daryl Morey does this to the best of them.

Lo Porto
09-23-2010, 12:35 PM
For NY's sake, they should hope that Denver keeps Melo and tries to win with him. When that only creates an ugly situation in Denver, they trade Melo to NY when Felton can be traded (mid December). If Denver gets Felton, Chandler, Curry and a future 1st for Melo and then trade Billups to a contender for even more value, Denver has a brighter future than just getting Favors, expirings and a pick or Deng, Gibson and a pick.

With or without Melo, NY is heading in the right direction.

beasted86
09-23-2010, 12:38 PM
Plenty of players come off of serious injuries and recover just fine, but I understand that its convenient for you to write that, to justify your hating on the Knicks.

You don't see me hyping up Da'Sean Butler on the Heat. I actually don't want him because I know he won't be ready to play soon.

A serious injury isn't a convenient reason to write him off... it's a realistic reason.

Sandman
09-23-2010, 12:56 PM
Wrong.

We traded:
A crap player, a rookie (who mind you was not performing well) and a 1st rounder. The right to swap is useless as we will still have a 1st rounder and will have our own if we have the better record.
It sounds very similar to the moves we made years back. Isiah traded first round picks after the team made the playoffs because he was counting on the team getting better, making the playoffs again, and the picks becoming mostly irrelevant.

There are surely huge differences this time around. The players we got in return are all young and either on expiring or rookie contracts. Last time we invested 66m on 22 year old prospects with bad work ethics and heart problems and another 30m each on old marginal players. This time we spent 15m to pick up a young PG with potential on a 2 year try out and 100m on a 27yr old stud power forward. The team actually IS cheaper, younger and more athletic, the things Isiah said he was chasing.

But still, this team hasn't been good YET, and counting our chickens has screwed us in the past. Randolph is likely as good of a prospect as we can nab with the 2012 pick. I'm not worried about the 2011 pick much either. But this trade went down before the team came together.

Is James Dolan just forcing whomever is in charge of the team to just go all-in at all times?

smuffins353
09-23-2010, 01:08 PM
if my memory serves me correctly, I do remember Jefferies making 2 huge defensive stops last season to beat the knicks in MSG.

so just face the fact that walsh screwed up its on him

scutch11
09-23-2010, 01:15 PM
if my memory serves me correctly, I do remember Jefferies making 2 huge defensive stops last season to beat the knicks in MSG.

so just face the fact that walsh screwed up its on him

were not going to say that donnie screwed up, because if he doesnt make that move, then half of our new additions wont be on the roster. this team does not have nearly as much promise and potential if this trade doesnt go through.

also, if that trade didnt happen, we would have effectively taken ourselves out of the lebron sweepstakes (as we needed to be able to afford a second max contract). if we had done that, imagine how much flak donnie would catch for that one.

while it wasnt the best trade, you can certainly see the reasons for feeling the need to have to go through with it

Ace33Bone
09-23-2010, 01:48 PM
Simple...Give up both Gallo and Chandler instead of the 1st

I agree ^^^ this is the best that Denver will get and if I were Denver front office I would accept the two young talents now rather than wait til the off season and lose Melo for nothing. Learn from the Cavs

Slimsim
09-23-2010, 01:51 PM
The Knicks did get some good role players with the money they had. They were also able to maintain their ability to pursue big name free agents over the next couple of years with the contracts they gave out.

The same story could be said of Miami had they not gotten Lebron and friends.

All considering, NY did a good job of putting together a competitive team without overspending.

I agree

Also who would have though All of a sudden out of Know were Carmelo wanted to just up and leave Denver ? It's not like they are a bad team in fact they are a legit Title contender. Donnie never though A guy like Carmelo would be on the market and had NY as his top option.

If anything Carmelo should had just finish Out this year without All this media attention and just sign with the Knicks in 2011.

Slimsim
09-23-2010, 01:58 PM
just because the knicks didnt know how to use hill doesnt mean hes a bust...he played good in houston and in the summer league he was a beast. jordan hill has a lot of potential

Then explain why Jeffries Played more Minutes at the end of the season instead of Hill ?

Slimsim
09-23-2010, 02:01 PM
NY fans are trippin'......don't feel bad though Daryl Morey does this to the best of them.

Not really. We have a nice young team and still have cap room to get another star, if not Carmelo We can go for a Chris Paul. Can't blame Donnie If Denver couldn't keep Carmelo happy.

NYtilIdie
09-23-2010, 04:11 PM
I've been saying this for quite sometime but Knick fans always downplay it.

We've had this debate before. Do you seriously feel like doing this again?

NYtilIdie
09-23-2010, 04:16 PM
just because the knicks didnt know how to use hill doesnt mean hes a bust...he played good in houston and in the summer league he was a beast. jordan hill has a lot of potential

Jordan Hill? Oh, you mean that guy who was getting zero playing time by the end of the season? The same guy who Rick said could turn into a solid role player? If his potential is a solid role player then it really wasn't a big steal.

Adam Morrison was pretty beast in last years SL too, what's your point?

Giaps
09-23-2010, 04:24 PM
Jordan Hill? Oh, you mean that guy who was getting zero playing time by the end of the season? The same guy who Rick said could turn into a solid role player? If his potential is a solid role player then it really wasn't a big steal.

Adam Morrison was pretty beast in last years SL too, what's your point?
Don't you know that summer league is like the best way to evaluate a player? Didn't Marco Belinelli have 37 points in summer league?

I'll be honest. I don't miss Hill AT ALL. I'm not pissed about trading him. However, I am pissed that we drafted him (Walsh had his eyes on Evans, Curry, Rubio).

Verbal Christ
09-23-2010, 04:34 PM
okay if you ask nicely the rockets will give you back your draft picks in exchange for randolph, and wilson chandler. LOL

Giaps
09-23-2010, 10:18 PM
okay if you ask nicely the rockets will give you back your draft picks in exchange for randolph, and wilson chandler. LOL
Randolph + Chandler > Hill + draft pick

netsgiantsyanks
09-23-2010, 10:30 PM
I really don't think people get it. If Knicks don't do this trade they have to let Lee walk because they could not have made a trade like that with the Warriors. Give me Randolph over a 2012 pick any day. Azibukee and Turiaf are also a nice pieces probably worth more to the Knicks than that bust Jordan Hill. It also allowed the Knicks to sign Felton which gives them a solid PG to play with Amare (I know the Knicks "missed out" on overrated Brandon Jennings).

Plus it gave them a fighters chance of becoming the best team in the league for the next decade overnight. Was it a gamble? sure. But they gambled and still got nice pieces out of it.

How come we aren't discussing how Paxson regrets giving away Hinrich and the 17th pick for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? (very good chance the Knicks 2012 pick is not lower or at least significantly than that). Hinrich and the 17th pick are not much worse than Hill and a 2012 pick from a team that will most likely not be a bottom 10 team in the league.

Or how about the Nets giving away Yi for free and then refusing to take on Beasely for the expiring contract of Keyon Dooling because they were scared to take up cap space? Then when they realized they missed out they spent 35 million on Outlaw, a player who plays Beasely's position and has less potential.

Every team that had a shot gambled this summer, but the Knicks recovered nicely and got Amare, Randolph, Felton, Bukee, Turiaf, Mozgov (ESPN had an article on how he would have been a 1st rounder this year) out of it.

because this is a thread about the knicks, not the nets or the bulls. DEAL WITH IT!!!!! :rolleyes:

jmlbnks26
09-23-2010, 10:42 PM
the Knicks are the worst run franchise in the NBA

LOL! And your Pistons signing Tmac was a good move

ChiSox219
09-24-2010, 02:05 AM
Hinrich is a Pg with a decreasing contract and a mentor to Wall.
Jared Jefferies had a trade kicker, is being paid like a top defender when he isn't even above average, and with him on the books Houston had no participation in 2010 summer. Two complete different situations, Hinrich actually helps a team since he is a PG. What does Jared help a team with? Drawing Charges and missing layups for 7-8 million.


This is whack, Jeffries may not have performed for that wasteland of an organization but he does play good defense, makes significantly less than Hinrich and has a shorter deal. Jeffries may not be worth what he is being paid but neither is Hinrich.

So what if Hinrich's deal was front loaded? It's still 2yrs/$17m and that's much more of a financial commitment that Jeffries without a significant difference in talent, certainly not two 1st round picks and Jordan Hill.




Besides this being completely untrue and ignorant I'll say you should get your mind set off the Isiah/Layden Knicks era.

When this deal went down, first thing I thought of was the Eddy Curry trade. And even if those traded picks don't become top 10 selections, it's going to cost the Knicks Carmelo Anthony, which is an enormous price to pay.

Giaps
09-24-2010, 08:59 AM
This is whack, Jeffries may not have performed for that wasteland of an organization but he does play good defense, makes significantly less than Hinrich and has a shorter deal. Jeffries may not be worth what he is being paid but neither is Hinrich.

So what if Hinrich's deal was front loaded? It's still 2yrs/$17m and that's much more of a financial commitment that Jeffries without a significant difference in talent, certainly not two 1st round picks and Jordan Hill
Wow. Can't believe you are comparing Hinrich and Jeffries. Jeffries had/has no value despite the Knicks making him play nearly all game to raise his value... he still had none. He also had a 15% trade kicker. He was without a doubt, one of the hardest players in the league to trade.

Hinrich is a starting caliber PG and could actually help a team. Don't even bother comparing.

And it was 1 first round pick. Do your homework.

KnicksorBust
09-24-2010, 10:35 AM
Anthony Randolph, Timofey Mosgov, Kelenna Azubuike, Ronny Turiaf > Jordan Hill, Jared Jeffries, 2012 draft pick

It's not even close.

Hugbees
09-24-2010, 10:57 AM
Took him long enough..
I was laughing my *** off two months ago when there was a rumor they wanted Jared Jeffries back.

caddiemaster
09-24-2010, 11:04 AM
I'd be stoked if My team got Amare and A.R.!Good luck N.Y. fans!

ChiSox219
09-24-2010, 11:20 AM
Wow. Can't believe you are comparing Hinrich and Jeffries. Jeffries had/has no value despite the Knicks making him play nearly all game to raise his value... he still had none. He also had a 15% trade kicker. He was without a doubt, one of the hardest players in the league to trade.

Hinrich is a starting caliber PG and could actually help a team. Don't even bother comparing.

And it was 1 first round pick. Do your homework.

And a 1st round swap, which is likely because the Rockets are good and the Knicks are not.

You might not have seen much of Hinrich's game lately but he's not hitting open jumpers like he used and that was the extent of his offensive game. Defensively he is good, but I'll take Jeffries talents on that end.

JJ played well in Houston but I'm not surprised you guys hate him, given how much he's cost your franchise.

Anyway you cut it, it was a dumb trade, even Walsh admits that.

Giaps
09-24-2010, 12:00 PM
And a 1st round swap, which is likely because the Rockets are good and the Knicks are not.
Right... so as of this summer the Knicks pick was at #9 and the Rockets at #14. Difference of 5 spots.

The Knicks had one of the better off seasons in the league so even IF the Rockets have a better record than the Knicks I don't expect it to be a huge difference.

Fact. They gave up 1 1st rounder... and so did the Bulls.

NYtilIdie
09-24-2010, 12:37 PM
And a 1st round swap, which is likely because the Rockets are good and the Knicks are not.

You might not have seen much of Hinrich's game lately but he's not hitting open jumpers like he used and that was the extent of his offensive game. Defensively he is good, but I'll take Jeffries talents on that end.

JJ played well in Houston but I'm not surprised you guys hate him, given how much he's cost your franchise.

Anyway you cut it, it was a dumb trade, even Walsh admits that.

The 1st round swap doesn't matter because both teams are pretty much going to have a similar record this so it will probably be 4-6 pick difference.

Hinrich's offensive game was coming together after the ASB since the beginning of the year was just stuffed with injuries. Jeffries on the other hand can't make a lay-up and is just a nightmare watching him take a jump-shot. Now the thing with Jeffries is he guards the PG's and that creates a mis-match somewhere on the court which usually leads to a smaller guard on a Forward. Say he played for the Bulls, that would mean Rose would have to shift on Kobe, see thats where Hinrich has an advantage.

JJ didn't play well in Houston, he wasn't even playing at all, neither him or Hill were getting any burn by seasons end.

The only reason people think its a big deal is because they just fell in love with all the 1st picks they saw, but in reality they only got 1st and the others a swap. Plus that 1st is protected.

fredv
09-24-2010, 12:40 PM
Anthony Randolph, Timofey Mosgov, Kelenna Azubuike, Ronny Turiaf > Jordan Hill, Jared Jeffries, 2012 draft pick

It's not even close.

Your forgetting David Lee + RIGHT to swap picks in 2011.

And btw, those guys weren't part of the deal...

Its more like:

McGrady+Cap-space for a 2nd max player (that you guys didn't get..) < Jordan Hill + 2012 draft pick (top 1 protected) + 2011 rights to swap pick (top 3 or protected) + Jeffries (though he just sucks)

The Knicks had to give up 1 pick+A pick swap+the 8th pick in the NBA draft (who will be a nice role player, possibly a starting PF down the road) for the possibility to get a 2nd max player.
The Rockets on the other hand just had to give up McGrady....

Pretty easy to see who got the better end of the deal. Especially when the Knicks GM says it himself..

fredv
09-24-2010, 12:42 PM
Btw, JJ was only rarely used, however, Jordan Hill showed signs of being a very good player down the road.
He just needed some PT. And he'll even be better this season after a good work with Yao & Hayes.

arkanian215
09-24-2010, 12:57 PM
Btw, JJ was only rarely used, however, Jordan Hill showed signs of being a very good player down the road.
He just needed some PT. And he'll even be better this season after a good work with Yao & Hayes.

holy shiiiiiiiiiiiit where have you been?

NYtilIdie
09-24-2010, 12:58 PM
Your forgetting David Lee + RIGHT to swap picks in 2011.

And btw, those guys weren't part of the deal...

Its more like:

McGrady+Cap-space for a 2nd max player (that you guys didn't get..) < Jordan Hill + 2012 draft pick (top 1 protected) + 2011 rights to swap pick (top 3 or protected) + Jeffries (though he just sucks)

The Knicks had to give up 1 pick+A pick swap+the 8th pick in the NBA draft (who will be a nice role player, possibly a starting PF down the road) for the possibility to get a 2nd max player.
The Rockets on the other hand just had to give up McGrady....

Pretty easy to see who got the better end of the deal. Especially when the Knicks GM says it himself..

But those were the guys we got with that extra CAP space. You guys look at the trade in the moment and don't look at the big picture. Without making that trade we wouldn't have the team we have today.

Do you see whats wrong with that? An 8th pick should be more then just a role player, even Carlisle said he would become a solid role player so there is really no potential there.

You also said he needed was playing time, well he got that early on, but showed his stone hands and got benched along with the other bum we sent.

SouthSideRookie
09-24-2010, 01:02 PM
The 1st round swap doesn't matter because both teams are pretty much going to have a similar record this so it will probably be 4-6 pick difference.

Hinrich's offensive game was coming together after the ASB since the beginning of the year was just stuffed with injuries. Jeffries on the other hand can't make a lay-up and is just a nightmare watching him take a jump-shot. Now the thing with Jeffries is he guards the PG's and that creates a mis-match somewhere on the court which usually leads to a smaller guard on a Forward. Say he played for the Bulls, that would mean Rose would have to shift on Kobe, see thats where Hinrich has an advantage.

JJ didn't play well in Houston, he wasn't even playing at all, neither him or Hill were getting any burn by seasons end.

The only reason people think its a big deal is because they just fell in love with all the 1st picks they saw, but in reality they only got 1st and the others a swap. Plus that 1st is protected.

OMG, do people really believe that the Knicks will be a 50+ win team, get real!!!

If Daryl Morey doesn't trade away that pick it's going to look even worse given his track record in drafting.

NYtilIdie
09-24-2010, 01:10 PM
OMG, do people really believe that the Knicks will be a 50+ win team, get real!!!

If Daryl Morey doesn't trade away that pick it's going to look even worse given his track record in drafting.

So you're saying the Rockets are going to win 50 games after only winning 42 games the previous year? I think you're the one who needs to get real.

Also no, Yao doesn't matter since he's only going to be playing 24 MPG and will be incredibly rusty after missing an entire year from basketball.

SouthSideRookie
09-24-2010, 01:15 PM
So you're saying the Rockets are going to win 50 games after only winning 42 games the previous year? I think you're the one who needs to get real.

Also no, Yao doesn't matter since he's only going to be playing 24 MPG and will be incredibly rusty after missing an entire year from basketball.

Hey kid guess what, the Rockets went 42-40 in the damn west. They managed to do that with about $40 million of cap space in street clothes for basically the entire season. They have made other upgrades. Not to mention an in season trade that required for the team to try to adjust on the fly.

So lets see, the knicks won 29 games in the pitiful east last season. They've made improvements and you say the odds are the knicks will be 21+ games better than the Rockets +8 :facepalm:

NYtilIdie
09-24-2010, 01:43 PM
Hey kid guess what, the Rockets went 42-40 in the damn west. They managed to do that with about $40 million of cap space in street clothes for basically the entire season. They have made other upgrades. Not to mention an in season trade that required for the team to try to adjust on the fly.

Who's fault is that? Thats nobody else's fault, but Morley who signed Ariza to that crazy contract and then trading for one-dimensional player in Martin who is another overpaid player and chucker who went 3-16 in his debut and then signing Scola who is 30 to a 5yr. $47 mil deal. The only player that mattered in that deal was Martin, the other two bums contributed nothing to the team.


So lets see, the knicks won 29 games in the pitiful east last season. They've made improvements and you say the odds are the knicks will be 21+ games better than the Rockets +8 :facepalm:

Well seeing how the Rockets roster last year was clearly better then the Knicks thats not surprising we only won 29 games, in fact I was expecting less. I never said we'd win 50 games, you just assumed that since you predict you guys will win 50+ games. The Rockets won't win 50+ games because like you said they're in the West and every team that was in the playoffs last year won 50 games. The Rockets will most likely finish with a record between 40-49 games and the Knicks will most likely finish with a record between 39-45 games. No major difference.


.

ChiSox219
09-25-2010, 09:21 PM
OMG, do people really believe that the Knicks will be a 50+ win team, get real!!!

If Daryl Morey doesn't trade away that pick it's going to look even worse given his track record in drafting.

Don't mind those Knicks posters, they are delusional.

astrosmaniac
09-25-2010, 09:39 PM
.

first off, dont know why you brought up any of those players. mcgrady and yao took up over half the payroll and weren't playing. any martin shooting poorly from the field in his debut proves what exactly? every player has an off game. you also forget he went 8-9 from the FT line that night. scola is better than any player on the knicks outside of amare, and depending on a team's roster, i'd take scola over amare on a fair number of teams.

you honestly dont think a full offseason to gell, adding a lotto pick, a legit backup center, a true SG who knows his role and wont detract from the offense, and getting yao back all while losing only ariza isnt going to give the rockets 8 more wins? thats ridiculous. i think the pick difference wont be major because a lack of talented teams in the east will let the knicks slip into the playoffs (7-8 seed), but they will end up with the 15th or 16th pick, while the rockets will end up with a pick later than 22

save the knicks
09-25-2010, 10:15 PM
jeez one funny youtube clip and few lucky draft picks and all of a sudden anything a guy does is gilded?

I haven't seen this much GM hype since Kevin Prichard..... hows he doing in Portland?

If you are not getting a top 5 pick whats the point? Using that same cap space on a vet or already proven role player is much better than rolling the dice on a guy that will most likely wash out of league in 5 years.

Slimsim
09-25-2010, 10:40 PM
I was pissed when we didn't have our 2010 pick. But i bet Landry fields will be better than what's that kids name from Utah Haywood or something.

jimm120
09-25-2010, 10:40 PM
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6124105/


I hated the trade from the beginning and this was why.

A lot of people were against it but I was perplexed when so many people said they either liked it or that it "had to be done".

Even though Jordan Hill was a BAD pick (really, after Curry was gone and I didn't care much for Rubio, Jennings was our only pick...only reason Walsh didn't take him was because he didn't want another Marbury...but the biggest thing was that it was DAntoni that escalated that situation with Marbury (and Nate and Al and Curry and Will and everyone aside for Gallo, Duhon, and Jeffries)....so, like i was saying, even though the Hill pick was bad, he was still the #8 pick in that year's draft. He still had value. Yet the Knicks payed for Tmac as if Tmac was Carmelo.

1 pick, 1 swap (that Houston decides, not us), Jeffries, and Hill just to clear a little bit of cap space...dumb.

I always said:

I prefered

1-
Jordan Hill
1 MAX in 2010
1 ROLE player in 2010
1 MAX in 2011
1st round picks in 2010 and 2012
1st round pick "higher" in 2011.


over

2-
2 MAX in 2010
1 ROLE in 2011
1st round "lower" in 2011
NO 1st in 2010/2012
NO Jordan Hill


And quite hoestly, we weren't able to attract 2 of the superstars (there were 4 in Lebron, Wade, Bosh, and Amare...and we only got one). I know that "we had to take a chance" but its kind of this situation with Carmelo. people say that it is too much (and it is) to give up Randolph, Gallo, AND other things for Melo. Well, at least that would be NETTING us the player for sure (don't mistake me into wanting that. I want Melo but not for that much), unlike what the situation was during the season, in which it was just giving us a chance at a diva (Lebron).

I kept saying that we should just let Jeffries and Curry expire this season or use them as trade chips. Yes, that means no chance at LeBron (well, we still could have signed him, but him alone) but honestly...our future would have been better off because we got rid of trade chips which would have been real valuable for the following 3 seasons, especially this one (2 big expirings, 1st round picks, etc).

SouthSideRookie
09-25-2010, 10:42 PM
jeez one funny youtube clip and few lucky draft picks and all of a sudden anything a guy does is gilded?

I haven't seen this much GM hype since Kevin Prichard..... hows he doing in Portland?

If you are not getting a top 5 pick whats the point? Using that same cap space on a vet or already proven role player is much better than rolling the dice on a guy that will most likely wash out of league in 5 years.

Lucky huh...

Carl Landry drafted 31st in the second round by Seattle, traded for a second rounder to Houston.

Aaron Brooks drafted 26th (MIP last season)

Chase Buddinger drafted 44th by the Pistons traded to the Rockets on draft night.

Luis Scola was traded to the Rockets for Vassilis Spounilis and a second rounder.

Not to mention some of the trades he's done lately, like one he did with a certain team last year.

Yeah I guess some of these guys are bums who will wash out in 5 years, I also guess Morey is overhyped!

29$JerZ
09-25-2010, 10:49 PM
Why is this thread still being posted on.

The trade was as followed

Jordan Hill - 8th pick
Jared Jefferies - Trade Kicker + Player Option (he accepted it)
2011 Swap (9th pick last season owend by Utah and 8th pick the year before, vs. Houston in the West with a winning record still not in the playoffs) - Not a big deal, its a swap
2012 1st rounder
Larry Hughes - Went to Sacramento and did nothing.

for

Tracy Mcgrady - Expiring
Sergio Rodriguez - Prospect PG who didn't pan out


That equated too

NY being able to sign Amar'e and Felton PLUS trade Lee for role players and Randolph rather than just Amar'e/Felton if LeBron didn't come.

Randolph is a way better prospect than Hill.
Kelenna + Turiaf > Jared Jefferies
Amar'e > Lee
2011 swap is meaningless.
2012 1st rounder was going to be traded for something, Melo can sign as a Knick this summer anyway.
Also didn't know a 1st rounder for a team who is suppose to be playoff bound meant so much...

It's not that hard to see why the trade was made. Amar'e already is a better leader for this team than Lee could ever hope to be. Randolph is a better investment than Hill, both are raw with limited basketball experienced but Randolph is going to be the more complete player while Hill looks like he'll be a solid player at best since he is so raw at the moment.

Rockets got a 2012 pick and Kevin Martin for an expiring and unwanted Tracy. Great trade for them.
NY got CAP space to build a completely new team from scratch and still have flexibility and assets to get more stars. Good thing for us.

Why bother arguing?

Hustla23
09-26-2010, 12:11 AM
And a 1st round swap, which is likely because the Rockets are good and the Knicks are not.

You might not have seen much of Hinrich's game lately but he's not hitting open jumpers like he used and that was the extent of his offensive game. Defensively he is good, but I'll take Jeffries talents on that end.

JJ played well in Houston but I'm not surprised you guys hate him, given how much he's cost your franchise.

Anyway you cut it, it was a dumb trade, even Walsh admits that.
Did you seriously, like in all honesty, say that Jeffries plays good defense? What the hell are you basing that on?

I can count on my fingers how many players in the league are worse than Jeffries defensively.