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View Full Version : Why does Chris Kaman get no respect?



Chicagofaithful
09-22-2010, 03:16 PM
(mods please don't move thread, I'm curious as to why fans from different cities think poorly of Chris Kaman).

As a bulls fan with all of my peers treating Joakim as a top center, and other fan bases like the Lakers who are relatively unwilling to part with Andrew Bynum, or the Blazer's Oden whom everyone still seems to think can be an allstar. Why does Chris kaman get the shaft?

Hes a huge 7 foot 265lb back to the basket center (upwards towards 20ppg) with an above average medium range J, good ft% for his position, top rebounder, and one of the league's best shot-blockers. My question is, he comes up in a lot of trade rumors, and I want to know why he isn't considered a cornerstone for a franchise, while Al Horford, Brook Lopez, Joakim Noah, Andrew Bynum, ect. are? If there was a way to trade joakim for him, I will seriously consider it, the only thing that would scare me is injuries but almost every player in the league is subject to that.

abe_froman
09-22-2010, 03:18 PM
why should he get respect?

ChiSox219
09-22-2010, 03:20 PM
He's an inefficient scorer, especially for his position/size. (TS%=.527, league average was .545)

He doesn't do much to create opportunities for teammates.

He turns the ball over too often.




Not a bad player but I don't think he deserved his all-star selection and it seems he's overrated on PSD because of his per game averages.

Chicagofaithful
09-22-2010, 03:21 PM
because he's good! If you put him in place of big baby on the C's they beat the lakers, he can defend dwight howard about as good as anyone in the NBA, i mean what's not to want about him? I personally believe he's one of the best centers in the nba

Baller1
09-22-2010, 03:21 PM
He's bad defender, an inefficient big man, and extremely ugly.

Chicagofaithful
09-22-2010, 03:28 PM
He's bad defender, an inefficient big man, and extremely ugly.

okay i get the extremely ugly... he's hideous my fantasy basketball team name used to be "Chris Kaman your hair" lol but bad defender? inefficient big man? You have to give me examples of how thats true... cuz every time i watch him, he causes problems in the paint for defenses and opposing centers

Unruly Fan
09-22-2010, 03:30 PM
He's an inefficient scorer, especially for his position/size. (TS%=.527, league average was .545)

He doesn't do much to create opportunities for teammates.

He turns the ball over too often.




Not a bad player but I don't think he deserved his all-star selection and it seems he's overrated on PSD because of his per game averages.
Could that be because he was forced to be one of the main offensive threats on the Clippers last season? He also averaged approx. 20 ppg.


why should he get respect?
Because he was a beast last season.


He's bad defender, an inefficient big man, and extremely ugly.
Compared to other big men in the NBA who are... strikingly handsome?

BOSTON617
09-22-2010, 03:31 PM
hes white lol

ChiSox219
09-22-2010, 03:32 PM
okay i get the extremely ugly... he's hideous my fantasy basketball team name used to be "Chris Kaman your hair" lol but bad defender? inefficient big man? You have to give me examples of how thats true... cuz every time i watch him, he causes problems in the paint for defenses and opposing centers

I wouldn't call him a bad defender but he does take a lot of shots to get his points.

To get away from the negatives for a second, he's much more athletic than you'd expect from a 7 foot white guy.

RCarlson85
09-22-2010, 03:32 PM
I think the biggest reason is because he's injury prone. When healthy, he is a good scorer, rebounder, and defender. He is a good center, but probably gets overlooked because of injuries.

Baller1
09-22-2010, 03:33 PM
okay i get the extremely ugly... he's hideous my fantasy basketball team name used to be "Chris Kaman your hair" lol but bad defender? inefficient big man? You have to give me examples of how thats true... cuz every time i watch him, he causes problems in the paint for defenses and opposing centers

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kamanch01.html

Check out his advanced stats. His ts% is horrendous for a Center, especially one considered a top tier Center. As for defense, a defensive rating of 109 (higher is worse), is far from impressive.

I could go into more detail, but this sums it up quickly.

RCarlson85
09-22-2010, 03:33 PM
hes white lol

You're right, this is the actual reason. lol

KeithLBC
09-22-2010, 03:35 PM
Seems good players who put up good numbers, on below average teams always seem to be underrated.

abe_froman
09-22-2010, 03:36 PM
Could that be because he was forced to be one of the main offensive threats on the Clippers last season? He also averaged approx. 20 ppg.

ahh forgot about this forum's forumla for greatness(aka the ai/ellis equation).ppg+woefully inefficient in getting those points=greatness

Baller1
09-22-2010, 03:37 PM
ahh forgot about this forum's forumla for greatness(aka the ai/ellis equation).ppg+woefully inefficient in getting those points=greatness

Isn't this the truth...

I wish people would take a look at the Advanced Statistics thread and learn a few things.

IDB Josh M
09-22-2010, 03:41 PM
Because not only is Kamen on a bad team, but his good play isn't good enough to carry his bad team. Now that is very unfortunate considering the Clippers has some decent talent in Baron Davis, Al Thornton, and some others.

sep11ie
09-22-2010, 03:42 PM
He's never done anything on a good team maybe...

ChiSox219
09-22-2010, 03:43 PM
Could that be because he was forced to be one of the main offensive threats on the Clippers last season? He also averaged approx. 20 ppg.


Because he was a beast last season.


Compared to other big men in the NBA who are... strikingly handsome?

He's been that way for his whole career with the exception of the one year he was basically the #5 option and Brand was beasting.

As far as his season last year, this is a list of players who attempted at least 15 FGs per game and played at a usage of 27 or above:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=2ynA8


If you go by either WS/48 or TS%, Kaman did not stack up to players that took on similar roles. You can see just how far behind Chris Bosh he is, and Bosh didn't have much more talent around him than the Clippers did.

ChiSox219
09-22-2010, 03:48 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kamanch01.html

Check out his advanced stats. His ts% is horrendous for a Center, especially one considered a top tier Center. As for defense, a defensive rating of 109 (higher is worse), is far from impressive.

I could go into more detail, but this sums it up quickly.

His high defensive rating has a lot to do with Baron Davis' general disinterest in playing defense and Camby getting traded.

King P
09-22-2010, 03:51 PM
Because he's white

Baller1
09-22-2010, 03:56 PM
His high defensive rating has a lot to do with Baron Davis' general disinterest in playing defense and Camby getting traded.

Well it's the same as his '08-'09 campaign. So I don't know if Camby had much to do with it.

Chronz
09-22-2010, 03:56 PM
Could that be because he was forced to be one of the main offensive threats on the Clippers last season? He also averaged approx. 20 ppg.
I once dedicated a thread to Kamans potential, I said if Brand werent around hed average 20-10, sadly that was before I truly understood stats and realized without tremendous improvement it was a claim that could only be realized on a bad offensive team. Its true hes being asked to take on a load to great for him but thats kind of the point. You put him in his PROPER role and hes not averaging 20PPG. In fact I dont think Kaman has ever been used properly. Hes never met league average in efficiency so why does he take so many shots? Hes a good rebounder, and can be a decent defender when surrounded by a truck load of defenders but isnt the kind you can build a defense around. Hes struggled to grasp the concept of passing thru double teams and not always right back to the entry passer hoping to get it back. Hes basically a black hole and until he gets that Z-Bo moment, will never live up to his averages.

I really think he should focus on crashing the boards, the occasional post up and pick n pop J, but if hes chucking up turnaways and flip shots attacking the rim he needs to be benched.

Again this coming from a guy whos cheered him on for 6 years (didnt know him as a rook), and defended him against the jeers he would receive for his perceived lack of effort. And overall he is a very competent center possibly on a good team but he is definitely not a cornerstone or All-Star.

smith&wesson
09-22-2010, 04:00 PM
its easy. he is a good player on a bad team.

since when does any one get recognition on the clippers ?

if he was on a winning team, he would get recognized more. but when your not making the play offs year after year its hard to get praise.

Rivera
09-22-2010, 04:00 PM
He's an inefficient scorer, especially for his position/size. (TS%=.527, league average was .545)

He doesn't do much to create opportunities for teammates.

He turns the ball over too often.




Not a bad player but I don't think he deserved his all-star selection and it seems he's overrated on PSD because of his per game averages.

this

pretty much nailed it right on the head

Chronz
09-22-2010, 04:02 PM
its easy. he is a good player on a bad team.

since when does any one get recognition on the clippers ?

if he was on a winning team, he would get recognized more. but when your not making the play offs year after year its hard to get praise.
Generally true but Brand got worthy cred from the public, its the coaches and the league who ignored him.

topdog
09-22-2010, 04:04 PM
I really don't know. With the recent lack of two-way centers of any mentionable talent, you'd think he'd be feelin' a lil' more love. I know I was salivating over the possibility of a Kaman-Jefferson frontcourt.

eXpLiiCt
09-22-2010, 04:06 PM
Cause he's a Ugly Fat *** *****

Mudvayne91
09-22-2010, 04:23 PM
He certainly is ugly, but I think he's pretty quality. Rotoworld was saying they have offered him/Griffin for Melo. Honestly, that was the best trade I saw for him. Given it doesn't mean that it was ever offered.

DetroitROK-City
09-22-2010, 04:27 PM
because hes white

Rafer17
09-22-2010, 04:38 PM
Because he looks like this (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_A2JRAWJd9O0/Swyo3rWkjzI/AAAAAAAAAk8/mZH17TsJCfw/s1600/Chris_Kaman_3.jpg)

ChiSox219
09-22-2010, 04:38 PM
According to Synergy, Kaman put up .89 Points Per Play which ranked 277th in the league.

Defensively (I don't put much stock in this) he gave up .95 Points Per Play which was good for 318th in the league.

Kashmir13579
09-22-2010, 04:39 PM
because he looks like the sloth

MrFastBreak
09-22-2010, 04:42 PM
Chris Kaman compared to Al Horford, Lopez, and Drew (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=horfoal01&y1=2010&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2010&p4=kamanch01&y4=2010)

Raoul Duke
09-22-2010, 04:45 PM
The Clippers are like the witness protection program. Guys go there, and then two or three years later you're all "whatever happened to so-and-so...?"

His team blows. A lot of people bring up Baron Davis, but the problem is that Baron doesn't play basketball anymore. He works in Hollywood. The Clips are basically his hobby, as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't been in game shape since the Dubs knocked off Dallas.

215 lbs? Looks more like 230+ to me.

beasted86
09-22-2010, 04:49 PM
Chris Kaman is the white version of Andrew Bynum, that plays for the other LA team.

One minute he's a role player... next minute he's looking like the strongest offensive Center in the NBA... next minute he's looking like a DPOY candidate... and next minute he's injured and you forget all about him.

Last year was solid, but he tapered off after the all-star break.

FaM0us Skins
09-22-2010, 04:50 PM
Because he plays for the Clippers

godolphins
09-22-2010, 05:11 PM
hes white lol

Right on point

Algmuskrats
09-22-2010, 05:24 PM
Never been on a good team.

Algmuskrats
09-22-2010, 05:25 PM
Right on point

agreed.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2010, 05:25 PM
cause he is a chucker on a bad team, turns the ball over a lot, and is a below average defender.

Hope that answers your question

smith&wesson
09-22-2010, 05:33 PM
Generally true but Brand got worthy cred from the public, its the coaches and the league who ignored him.

I hear ya chronz BUT brand did take the clippers to the playoffs in 2005-2006 season. that is mainly why he got the praise he did.

I like the guy, I think kaman is solid. I just think he gets overlooked because he plays for a team who rarley have winning seasons. or hardley ever would be more acurate.

Ray_R
09-22-2010, 05:57 PM
He's bad defender, an inefficient big man, and extremely ugly.

This

2_Trill
09-22-2010, 05:59 PM
Trade him to the Pistons we would appreciate any talented big man!

NYYCowboys
09-22-2010, 06:09 PM
Where can I read up about advanced stats in basketball? I avidly follow them in baseball, and realize how important they are in that sport, and I imagine they are very important in basketball as well. I always feel like such an idiot in a conversation like this in basketball because I don't know the advanced stats.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2010, 06:29 PM
Where can I read up about advanced stats in basketball? I avidly follow them in baseball, and realize how important they are in that sport, and I imagine they are very important in basketball as well. I always feel like such an idiot in a conversation like this in basketball because I don't know the advanced stats.

check your profile, I just sent you a message.

smith&wesson
09-22-2010, 06:42 PM
check your profile, I just sent you a message.

hit me up with that too bro. so i can keep up with ya :eyebrow: