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View Full Version : Phil Jackson: Talent doesn't always win



JordansBulls
09-21-2010, 11:38 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=5600813




Way back in June, Phil Jackson agreed to come back for one more season with the Los Angeles Lakers. In his sights was another opportunity for an NBA championship and another shot at a three-peat.

Seems an eternity ago. So much has changed -- namely the rise of a certain formidable foe in the Eastern Conference. The Miami Heat's mega free-agent acquisitions of LeBron James and Chris Bosh -- teaming with Dwyane Wade -- have all the markings of an instant championship contender.

"They got great talent," Jackson said in an interview with ESPN 1000 in Chicago. "There's no question about their talent they have. But, talent doesn't always win. The team that shows the best teamwork will win it. We think that [the Lakers] have established something. But, if [the Heat] can unite -- and build quickly -- they might be able to do it."

Jackson teams have won 11 of the past 20 NBA title and the coach is always able to add a little historical perspective.

"I always refer to when Wilt Chamberlain was traded from Philadelphia to Los Angeles and that put [Elgin] Baylor, [Jerry] West and Chamberlain together -- three of the top scorers in NBA history -- and they never won a championship together the four years they were together," Jackson said.

"It's not always scorers and talent that wins it. But it's teamwork that does it."

Baller1
09-21-2010, 11:40 PM
Exactly why the Thunder's mix of talent and teamwork are going to lead them to multiple championships.

dnewguy
09-21-2010, 11:43 PM
I guess that's why Phil always want to coach teams without "talents"

Chacarron
09-21-2010, 11:45 PM
Maybe Phil is able to coach teams' with talents to 3-peats.

Baller1
09-21-2010, 11:46 PM
I guess that's why Phil always want to coach teams without "talents"

No kidding.

He's coached 6 or so of the greatest of all time. Crazy.

tredigs
09-21-2010, 11:49 PM
POT, meet kettle.

JordansBulls
09-21-2010, 11:50 PM
No kidding.

He's coached 6 or so of the greatest of all time. Crazy.

Had the Best player in the league at least 9 of those 11 years as well and top 2-3 the other 2.

Gators123
09-21-2010, 11:50 PM
POT, meet kettle.

This.

justinnum1
09-21-2010, 11:51 PM
Phil just don't know whats coming.

dodie53
09-21-2010, 11:58 PM
Phil coached teams with talent and teamwork

rockets-fan
09-21-2010, 11:58 PM
teamwork=rockets

maybe hes sayin the rockets will win the chamionship this year lol let me dream ok

xbrackattackx
09-22-2010, 12:02 AM
Phil trying to play mind games. Sounds about right.

still1ballin
09-22-2010, 12:21 AM
Thats the zenmaster!!!

Silent
09-22-2010, 12:34 AM
Phil just don't know whats coming.




neither do the heat fans there gonna be very disappointed

LayZbone
09-22-2010, 12:49 AM
neither do the heat fans there gonna be very disappointed

For real? damn, that sucks.

Ovratd1up
09-22-2010, 01:02 AM
No, only when they're on his team.

IDB Josh M
09-22-2010, 01:07 AM
I guess that's why Phil always want to coach teams without "talents"

Shaq has the distinction of being the only player to win without Phil Jackson after already having a championship with him. Jordan, Pippen, Kobe ... no title without Phil Jackson.

The caveat to that, of course, is that it was Pat Riley who won a championship with Shaq.

shep33
09-22-2010, 01:08 AM
Phil is pulling an Inception on the Heat

Geargo Wallace
09-22-2010, 01:13 AM
Ya well I think Riley has an idea or two about winning a ship.

ChiSox219
09-22-2010, 01:21 AM
Hey Phil:



















U Mad?

still1ballin
09-22-2010, 01:23 AM
Hey Phil:


Why is he a total of 12 rings going for 13.
















U Mad?

Why should he be? He has like 11 rings.

Sadds The Gr8
09-22-2010, 01:31 AM
POT, meet kettle.

this.

kikeyanez
09-22-2010, 01:33 AM
sounds like phil is a hater! nobody likes the heat

Lakerfan8032
09-22-2010, 01:36 AM
Phil just don't know whats coming.

You're sig is great. Why don't you make it better and have the clip of Wade ballin' his brains out right next to it? And make sure to add the part when he is wheeled off on the wheelchair for hurting his shoulder. I remember when I hurt my shoulder and couldn't walk. :rolleyes:

Good hypocrite sig.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 01:47 AM
Pat Riley (The ultimate godfather) >>Phil Jackson.

still1ballin
09-22-2010, 02:03 AM
Pat Riley (The ultimate godfather) >>Phil Jackson.

How so when PJ is using his toes to put rings on because he ran out of fingers

Wade>You
09-22-2010, 02:24 AM
Despite having 5 of the best talents in the game and at their position in route to helping him win 11 championships over the past two decade, Phil Jackson is right.

Patman
09-22-2010, 02:26 AM
POT, meet kettle.

Exactly. But by now we should now that Jackson just talks **** and basicly you should just ignore him....

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 02:34 AM
How so when PJ is using his toes to put rings on because he ran out of fingers

Pat Riley has 7 rings without even coaching the GOAT. Pat Riley immediately made the knicks relevant when the franchise was lost for 20 years or so. Pat Riley made the Heat relevant immediately. He proved he can win and he doesn't need the best team in the league (2006) for that, which Jackson hasn't proved yet. Pat Riley has also proved he is one of the greatest GMs/Presidents in the league history if not the greatest (Brought in Alonzo, Hardaway, Shaq, LeBron, Bosh, Wade while all in their prime). Ask Jerry West, he will tell you what Pat Riley is all about.

LakersMaster24
09-22-2010, 02:37 AM
All Phil is saying, is that just by having three top players (D-Wade, Lebron, Bosh) doesnt make you an automatic champion. Believe it or not, thats something A LOT of Heat fans think. The second Lebron signed with Miami, lots of people crowned the Heat as the new NBA champions! Just by having good players on a team, doesnt mean your guaranteed to win a ring. Ex: Malone, Shaq, Kobe, Payton etc. Baylor, Wilt, West. Dr.J and Co. and so on.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 02:40 AM
All Phil is saying, is that just by having three top players (D-Wade, Lebron, Bosh) doesnt make you an automatic champion. Believe it or not, thats something A LOT of Heat fans think. The second Lebron signed with Miami, lots of people crowned the Heat as the new NBA champions! Just by having good players on a team, doesnt mean your guaranteed to win a ring. Ex: Malone, Shaq, Kobe, Payton etc. Baylor, Wilt, West. Dr.J and Co. and so on.

You mean you should not anticipate that your team will win when you put togather arguably 2 of the games best players with another top PF in the league?

ChiSox219
09-22-2010, 02:40 AM
Why should he be? He has like 11 rings.

I was taking a shot at Heat fans. I'm a huge Phil Jackson fan

LakersMaster24
09-22-2010, 02:46 AM
You mean you should not anticipate that your team will win when you put togather arguably 2 of the games best players with another top PF in the league?

I never said that. What I am saying is that you cant be 100% about winning an NBA championship just by combining great players in one team. If I was a Heat, fan I would expect my team to win too because anything else would be a dissapointment, however you can never be sure 100% like some Heat fans. The thing is that some fans, think its ALL about talent and the players you have on your team, so they look at the Heat roster (on paper) and already call them the next DYNASTY. As an example, the Lakers just won 2 championships back to back. But I still cant be 100% sure that they will 3 peat.

kArSoN RyDaH
09-22-2010, 02:47 AM
Despite having 5 of the best talents in the game and at their position in route to helping him win 11 championships over the past two decade, Phil Jackson is right.

pau shaq kobe jordan pippen and rodman. thats 6. :p



funny thing is none of them ever won a championship without Phil Jackson besides Shaq riding Wades asss

LakersMaster24
09-22-2010, 02:49 AM
pau shaq kobe jordan pippen and rodman. thats 6. :p



funny thing is none of them ever won a championship without Phil Jackson besides Shaq riding Wades asss

:clap: This.

kArSoN RyDaH
09-22-2010, 03:02 AM
Pat Riley has 7 rings without even coaching the GOAT. Pat Riley immediately made the knicks relevant when the franchise was lost for 20 years or so. Pat Riley made the Heat relevant immediately. He proved he can win and he doesn't need the best team in the league (2006) for that, which Jackson hasn't proved yet. Pat Riley has also proved he is one of the greatest GMs/Presidents in the league history if not the greatest (Brought in Alonzo, Hardaway, Shaq, LeBron, Bosh, Wade while all in their prime). Ask Jerry West, he will tell you what Pat Riley is all about.

pat riley has 6 NBA championships as a coach. 1 of those being an assistant coach for the lakers in 1980. you forget that he coached 3 HOF players in worthy magic and kareem when he won 4 of those 6 championships and at the time magic had been considered one of the GOAT alongside Bird and Kareem. So he had 2 of the top players to be considered amongst the greatest. then in 2006 he won with a declining shaq and an up and coming wade. i dont see how you can win a championship and not be considered the best team in the league. when you win the championship it implies being the best in the NBA.

Jenceman
09-22-2010, 03:02 AM
Dude's got 13 rings, he knows what's up.

dnewguy
09-22-2010, 03:16 AM
Kobe and Jordan hasn't won a ring without Phil....neither got out of the 1st round without Phil.....Wade is better than both because he didnt need phil to get a ring.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 03:16 AM
pat riley has 6 NBA championships as a coach. 1 of those being an assistant coach for the lakers in 1980. you forget that he coached 3 HOF players in worthy magic and kareem when he won 4 of those 6 championships and at the time magic had been considered one of the GOAT alongside Bird and Kareem. So he had 2 of the top players to be considered amongst the greatest. then in 2006 he won with a declining shaq and an up and coming wade. i dont see how you can win a championship and not be considered the best team in the league. when you win the championship it implies being the best in the NBA.

First of all, Pat Riley has total 7 rings (1 as a player, don't tell me I can't count that). Second, Magic Johnson is the one who he coached in his prime, Kareem was not in his prime under Riley (Not saying Kareem wasn't still great though). That means Riley has proved that he can win with great players, which is exactly what Phil Jackson did. And Riley did more. Go back to Knicks history, Pat made them elite after ~20 years. Heat was non-existent before his arrival. He made them elite and eventually won in 2006 with a declining Shaq who was past his prime and and up-and-coming 3rd year star Wade. And I already mention what he has done as a GM/president, which is why I said he is the ultimate godfather.

Jenceman
09-22-2010, 03:20 AM
I'm sorry,he still has nothing on Phil.

And dnewguy, stop being such an ignorant troll.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 03:21 AM
nvm..

kArSoN RyDaH
09-22-2010, 03:41 AM
Kobe and Jordan hasn't won a ring without Phil....neither got out of the 1st round without Phil.....Wade is better than both because he didnt need phil to get a ring.

did you just say wade is better than both MJ ANDD KOBE?:facepalm:

with that logic youre saying everyone who didnt play under phil jackson and won a championship is better than kobe AND MJ? wow!




First of all, Pat Riley has total 7 rings (1 as a player, don't tell me I can't count that). Second, Magic Johnson is the one who he coached in his prime, Kareem was not in his prime under Riley (Not saying Kareem wasn't still great though). That means Riley has proved that he can win with great players, which is exactly what Phil Jackson did. And Riley did more. Go back to Knicks history, Pat made them elite after ~20 years. Heat was non-existent before his arrival. He made them elite and eventually won in 2006 with a declining Shaq who was past his prime and and up-and-coming 3rd year star Wade. And I already mention what he has done as a GM/president, which is why I said he is the ultimate godfather.

if you want to talk about rings as a player then phil has 2 rings as a player so thats 13. how did riley do more when he hasnt won more? lakers hadnt won a championship in 11-12 years until PJ came along.

hes not the ultimate godfather. PJ is and anyone who says otherwise is completely ignorant.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 03:55 AM
if you want to talk about rings as a player then phil has 2 rings as a player so thats 13. how did riley do more when he hasnt won more? lakers hadnt won a championship in 11-12 years until PJ came along.

hes not the ultimate godfather. PJ is and anyone who says otherwise is completely ignorant.

NO, Pat Riley is. He has proved it over the years. I won't argue with you because you seem to avoid my points because you know phil hasn't done those things as Riley did. And Pat Riley is arguably the greatest GM/president of all time. Phil hasn't done anything close to that. You take off MJ, Kobe, and Shaq, people won't know who phil jackson is. You take off Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Wade, and Pat Riley is still great for his contributions as a GM/president. That is why he is the godfather and the gangster.

mynameismo
09-22-2010, 04:00 AM
Talent can learn Teamwork.

But Teamwork can never learn Talent.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 04:05 AM
Talent can learn Teamwork.

But Teamwork can never learn Talent.

Thank you!

kArSoN RyDaH
09-22-2010, 04:12 AM
NO, Pat Riley is. He has proved it over the years. I won't argue with you because you seem to avoid my points because you know phil hasn't done those things as Riley did. And Pat Riley is arguably the greatest GM/president of all time. Phil hasn't done anything close to that. You take off MJ, Kobe, and Shaq, people won't know who phil jackson is. You take off Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Wade, and Pat Riley is still great for his contributions as a GM/president. That is why he is the godfather and the gangster.

yeaa in the president/gm aspect pat riley is the best or one of the best just for the simple fact he made the biggest move in nba history by acquiring bosh and lebron. in terms of coaching though phil jackson is unsurpassed in that regard. no coach will ever come close to winning as many rings or being able to bring together top players and make them cooperate and win championships the way phil did with pippen and jordan and shaq and kobe and kobe and gasol.

im not avoiding your points youre just talking about GM/President and im talking about coaching. theyre two totally different positions within an NBA organization so they are not comparable.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 04:26 AM
yeaa in the president/gm aspect pat riley is the best or one of the best just for the simple fact he made the biggest move in nba history by acquiring bosh and lebron. in terms of coaching though phil jackson is unsurpassed in that regard. no coach will ever come close to winning as many rings or being able to bring together top players and make them cooperate and win championships the way phil did with pippen and jordan and shaq and kobe and kobe and gasol.

im not avoiding your points youre just talking about GM/President and im talking about coaching. theyre two totally different positions within an NBA organization so they are not comparable.

I am not counting the number of rings because he coached only one generation of players in their prime (Magic and co.) and phil coached three generations (Jordans, Shaqs, Kobes) in their prime. So obviously counting number of rings ain't fair for that matter. Point is Riley is just as much of a winner with similar talent and he has done many other things. He is a winner in many aspects of the game, not only coaching. Very few people posses such dynamic personality (if there is any). That is why I called Pat Riley is the ultimate godfather.

kArSoN RyDaH
09-22-2010, 04:34 AM
I am not counting the number of rings because he coached only one generation of players in their prime (Magic and co.) and phil coached three generations (Jordans, Shaqs, Kobes) in their prime. So obviously counting number of rings ain't fair for that matter. Point is Riley is just as much of a winner with similar talent and he has done many other things. He is a winner in many aspects of the game, not only coaching. Very few people posses such dynamic personality (if there is any). That is why I called Pat Riley is the ultimate godfather.

you forget his years with the knicks. he coached patrick ewing in his prime and led them to the finals. he coached dwayne wade in his prime. thats 3 generations i dont see where you say he only coached one generation in their prime.

i think the number of rings are fair. yea he is a winner in other aspects like general managing but that is about it.

phil jackson> pat riley

Enemey
09-22-2010, 04:43 AM
Sorry Jerry West is the Godfather of the NBA got Magic James Worthy and also hired Pat Riley for the Showtime Lakers and then got Shaq and Kobe.

If Phil had coached The Knicks in the 90's instead of Pat they would have won rings with them.

kArSoN RyDaH
09-22-2010, 04:53 AM
Sorry Jerry West is the Godfather of the NBA got Magic James Worthy and also hired Pat Riley for the Showtime Lakers and then got Shaq and Kobe.

If Phil had coached The Knicks in the 90's instead of Pat they would have won rings with them.

:clap:

Kashmir13579
09-22-2010, 04:53 AM
Phil just don't know whats coming.

its phil jackson, dude.:facepalm:

LakerPride
09-22-2010, 04:54 AM
to sum it all


LA Lakers will 3 peat


U MAD?

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 05:02 AM
you forget his years with the knicks. he coached patrick ewing in his prime and led them to the finals. he coached dwayne wade in his prime. thats 3 generations i dont see where you say he only coached one generation in their prime.

i think the number of rings are fair. yea he is a winner in other aspects like general managing but that is about it.

phil jackson> pat riley

NO, he didn't coach prime Wade. Wade is in his prime right now. And Patric Ewing is no way on the same level with Magics, Jordans, or Shaqs.

Kashmir13579
09-22-2010, 05:06 AM
to sum it all


LA Lakers will 3 peat


U MAD?

seriously man... that **** has run its course. it's not even funny, annoying, or cool anymore. think of a different way to get your non-existent point across. EDIT: "U MAD?" oh snap i never saw that coming.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 05:06 AM
Sorry Jerry West is the Godfather of the NBA got Magic James Worthy and also hired Pat Riley for the Showtime Lakers and then got Shaq and Kobe.

If Phil had coached The Knicks in the 90's instead of Pat they would have won rings with them.

Only shaq came from another team. Pat brought in the likes of Alonzo, Hardaway, Shaq, LeBron, Bosh,Wade (free agent) in their prime.

And the bold part shows how ignorant you are. You obviously didn't see the 90's bulls. One question: Why didn't the bulls win from 93 to 95?

Enemey
09-22-2010, 05:19 AM
Only shaq came from another team. Pat brought in the likes of Alonzo, Hardaway, Shaq, LeBron, Bosh,Wade (free agent) in their prime.

And the bold part shows how ignorant you are. You obviously didn't see the 90's bulls. One question: Why didn't the bulls win from 93 to 95?

Jerry west brought the Showtime Lakers which was a very stacked team, Has more than 10 all stars throughout the 80's. He drafted and traded for players thats part of the GM Job. In the 90's he he got Shaq , Kobe, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel. 2000 Lakers he got Horace grant, Glen Rice, Ron Harper,Isiah Rider, etc etc. C'mon man he also made Pat Riley who he is today by firing the Lakers coach and hiring the assistent coach Pat riley, then later made the GOAT come out of Retirement to Coach the 3peat lakers in early 2000.

The knicks went to the finals in 94 and lost being up 3-2 with Homecourt advantage. Phil Jackson is undefeated when up in the finals.

Lil Rhody
09-22-2010, 05:20 AM
coming from the guy who never coached a team of scrubs and always had atleast 1 top 3 guys in the league

Enemey
09-22-2010, 05:22 AM
Jerry West= Godfather of the NBA ( Not to mention theres a conspiracy about him involving with pau Gasol trade only a godfather can do that)

Phil Jackson= GOAT Coach

kArSoN RyDaH
09-22-2010, 05:29 AM
NO, he didn't coach prime Wade. Wade is in his prime right now. And Patric Ewing is no way on the same level with Magics, Jordans, or Shaqs.

wade in 08 was starting his prime.


but whatever you say buddy.


your argument is flawed and your reaching now.


bye.

Iggz53
09-22-2010, 08:20 AM
...they did win the championship, in '72. And in this case, all 3 were well past their prime anyway.

John Walls Era
09-22-2010, 08:49 AM
POT, meet kettle.

yup.

Khalifa21
09-22-2010, 08:50 AM
More mind games from Phil... Nothing changes.

Antipod
09-22-2010, 09:06 AM
1 more tittle and bye bye Phil )

Lakerfan8032
09-22-2010, 09:08 AM
...they did win the championship, in '72. And in this case, all 3 were well past their prime anyway.

Elgin retired nine games into that season and then the team went on that 33 game winning streak right after he retired. Both Wilt and West may not have been in their prime but they were still very good players at that time.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 09:12 AM
Jerry west brought the Showtime Lakers which was a very stacked team, Has more than 10 all stars throughout the 80's. He drafted and traded for players thats part of the GM Job. In the 90's he he got Shaq , Kobe, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel. 2000 Lakers he got Horace grant, Glen Rice, Ron Harper,Isiah Rider, etc etc. C'mon man he also made Pat Riley who he is today by firing the Lakers coach and hiring the assistent coach Pat riley, then later made the GOAT come out of Retirement to Coach the 3peat lakers in early 2000.

The knicks went to the finals in 94 and lost being up 3-2 with Homecourt advantage. Phil Jackson is undefeated when up in the finals.

I already mentioned in this thread why Riley is the most dynamic personality in nba history. Coach Riley+GM/president Riley= The Godfather, Gangster of nba.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 09:14 AM
coming from the guy who never coached a team of scrubs and always had atleast 1 top 3 guys in the league

I know right. Just look at 93-95, and then 2003-08. This is phil Jackson. I wonder why those teams didn't win..hmmm.

Raidaz4Life
09-22-2010, 09:17 AM
I love how everyone's panties are all in a bunch when he is absolutely right. Talent does not always win... ask the 04 Lakers.

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 09:17 AM
wade in 08 was starting his prime.


but whatever you say buddy.


your argument is flawed and your reaching now.


bye.

:facepalm::facepalm:

And in 2008-09 Riley didn't coach. Don't tell me my arguments are flawed. I alwasy back up my statements like very few other people do here. I am not an arrogant punk (i see a lot here) who will say "X" is the GOAT out of no where.

save the knicks
09-22-2010, 09:33 AM
Phil Jackson is ultimate troll

ttam68
09-22-2010, 10:07 AM
Its hard to argue with his example.

People get their periods over the dumbest ****. He's right. Like someone mentioned, look at the '04 Lakers. Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Payton all lost to Chauncey, Big Ben, etc. Its easy to crown champions before you see them play.

And as for the Riey/Phil argument its pointless. You're asking us to grade Phil without Jordan, Shaq, Kobe but then you want to mention how amazing Riley is by listing all the guys he acquired. Why don't we grade Riley as a gm without Wade, Zo, Shaq, Lebron, Bosh. Then we'll see how good a gm he really is. ****ing pointless.

lakers4sho
09-22-2010, 10:24 AM
Why are people taking this so negatively?

Law25
09-22-2010, 10:32 AM
I know right. Just look at 93-95, and then 2003-08. This is phil Jackson. I wonder why those teams didn't win..hmmm.

I believe Pippen *****ed up ECF in one of those games in 94-95. 03-04 is your only real valid argument when saying he should have won. 04-05 He wasnt with Lakers. And if your saying Riley could have won with this cast conversation over.

Lakers 05-06 roster:

Smush Parker- No one wanted him since
Kwame Brown- Bounced around since
Andrew Bynum- Rookie
Brian Cook- Bounce around teams 2nd or 3rd units off the bench
Devean George- Who constantly injured and after became Brian Cook
Devin Green- Young player not in the leauge
Jim Jackson- Old *** was on his way out
Aaron Mckie- Same as Jim Jackson
Stanislav Medvedenko- No one wanted him after
Chris Mihm- Couldnt be healthy. Worst then Bynum with health
Laron Profit-Bounced around
Von Wafer- Rookie
Sasha- 2nd year gunner

Aside from Kobe, Odom, and Walton (who also was and is still hurt alot) at that time who was really servicable. Pat Riley would have not coached the team and Phil was one rebound from the second round in the stacked West. All the Riley lovers are saying Phil only coache great player wel hell how did Riley get his last ring. He fired his coach when the team was good enough to win one, then left soon after. Now there's speculation this might happen again.

Gibby23
09-22-2010, 10:35 AM
NO, Pat Riley is. He has proved it over the years. I won't argue with you because you seem to avoid my points because you know phil hasn't done those things as Riley did. And Pat Riley is arguably the greatest GM/president of all time. Phil hasn't done anything close to that. You take off MJ, Kobe, and Shaq, people won't know who phil jackson is. You take off Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Wade, and Pat Riley is still great for his contributions as a GM/president. That is why he is the godfather and the gangster.

That would be Jerry West, the guy that was behind building 7 championship teams with the Lakers and letting Riley coach the showtime Lakers. Sorry.

NeutralFan
09-22-2010, 10:41 AM
NO, Pat Riley is. He has proved it over the years. I won't argue with you because you seem to avoid my points because you know phil hasn't done those things as Riley did. And Pat Riley is arguably the greatest GM/president of all time. Phil hasn't done anything close to that. You take off MJ, Kobe, and Shaq, people won't know who phil jackson is. You take off Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Wade, and Pat Riley is still great for his contributions as a GM/president. That is why he is the godfather and the gangster.

you are by far the biggest moronic homer in the history of PSD. Can't wait til Boston takes those bums out.

effen5
09-22-2010, 10:43 AM
Just saying....

how many rings does MJ have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Kobe have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Pippen have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Shaq have without Phil? 1

How many years did Kobe and Shaq play together without Phil?

Phil coaches them to be GOAT...

They weren't GOAT before Phil, but they will be GOAT after Phil.

Gasol was a good player in Memphis...he is now a great player with the Lakers.

Law25
09-22-2010, 10:46 AM
Talent can learn Teamwork.

But Teamwork can never learn Talent.

Talent brings ego's. Ego's when under pressure can destroy teams. Teamwork can be learned only when ego's dont exist. My coach told me this. Point is its hard to imagine three studs whos used to being the man on ther own teams giving up all ego's for the greater good when the media itself will be tough to overcome.

Law25
09-22-2010, 10:47 AM
Just saying....

how many rings does MJ have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Kobe have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Pippen have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Shaq have without Phil? 1

How many years did Kobe and Shaq play together without Phil?

Phil coaches them to be GOAT...

They weren't GOAT before Phil, but they will be GOAT after Phil.

Gasol was a good player in Memphis...he is now a great player with the Lakers.

This.

ttam68
09-22-2010, 10:48 AM
Just saying....

how many rings does MJ have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Kobe have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Pippen have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Shaq have without Phil? 1

How many years did Kobe and Shaq play together without Phil?

Phil coaches them to be GOAT...

They weren't GOAT before Phil, but they will be GOAT after Phil.

Gasol was a good player in Memphis...he is now a great player with the Lakers.

Well said. I'm not even a Laker fan or Heat hater.

The man won 11 of the last 20 rings in a 30 team league, while Riley is and has been around. I don't care how hard you try, theres no set of circumstances in the world that can discount Phil's greatness.

effen5
09-22-2010, 10:48 AM
coming from the guy who never coached a team of scrubs and always had atleast 1 top 3 guys in the league

Umm, you do realize Phil is the REASON why that player became a top 3 player in the league right?

MJ was a very special player before Phil, but was he a top 3 player at that time from 85-89? You still had Magic and Bird and still the GOAT still playing then. MJ became the GOAT after Phil came to the Bulls.

Same with Kobe, was Kobe even considered a top 3 player in 00? No. Phil coached him to be a top 3 player.

effen5
09-22-2010, 10:50 AM
Well said. I'm not even a Laker fan or Heat hater.

The man won 11 of the last 20 rings in a 30 team league, while Riley is and has been around. I don't care how hard you try, theres no set of circumstances in the world that can discount Phil's greatness.

:clap:

11/20 Do you know how unbelievable that is?! He won 55 percent of the rings in the past 2 decades....that is unbelievable.

MTar786
09-22-2010, 11:12 AM
phil = best coach of all time

west = godfather of nba for all the reasons listed above plus the fact that he IS the NBA logo

Chronz
09-22-2010, 11:14 AM
Talent brings ego's. Ego's when under pressure can destroy teams. Teamwork can be learned only when ego's dont exist. My coach told me this. Point is its hard to imagine three studs whos used to being the man on ther own teams giving up all ego's for the greater good when the media itself will be tough to overcome.

Where were you when Kobe and Shaq hated eachother on route to 3 straight titles?

epizo1
09-22-2010, 11:15 AM
When we categorize GOATs as fans the first thing we immediately think of is how many rings. However, some of you would like to imply that Phil's greatness is not because of his rings. You lose every such credibility the moment you discount Phil as a potential GOAT Coach. I usually don't bite on these issues on PSD because I don't feel the need to convince someone I am right... I just know I am :p

Still, just for kicks I'll point out that Phil is 48-0 when winning game 1 of any series. Everyone knows the stat. If that were a small sampling like 7-0 or 15-0 or even 25-0 maybe it could be chalked up to just coincidence or lucky. But 48-0!!!! :speechless: That is 12 years worth of playoff basketball!! What does that stat say? Give him a lead and no opposing coach will be able to make the adjustments necessary between games to overcome the luxury of Phil being up 1-0 in a series. We know most of the coaching is done between games therefore it becomes a chess match of anticipating what wrinkle the other coach is gonna bring next game. And for 48 times (again, it's mind boggling) no other coach has been able to out maneuver the GOAT! Will it be broken. It can. But as of now, even if he loses his next series being up 1-0... 48-1 doesn't look too bad. I love Riley for what he did with us but I can't sit here and say that he's a better coach than Phil. And if you wanna talk GM's, personality, etc, etc, start a different thead. IMO, Mark Madsen has a better personality than Pat and Phil if you wanna go that route. Isaiah Rider is more gangsta than both of'em and as far as GM's go, the LOGO is just... well, he's the LOGO!!!

Chronz
09-22-2010, 11:18 AM
Just saying....

how many rings does MJ have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Kobe have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Pippen have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Shaq have without Phil? 1

How many years did Kobe and Shaq play together without Phil?

Phil coaches them to be GOAT...

They weren't GOAT before Phil, but they will be GOAT after Phil.

Gasol was a good player in Memphis...he is now a great player with the Lakers.

How many rings could MJ have won in that situation?
Kobe has never had another coach while having the teammates
Why mention Shaq if he won without him? Pippen? Umm how many titles has Steve Kerr, Robert Horry and Dennis Rodman won without Phil? Whats the point in saying this.

Kobe and Shaq played a few years but Kobe was 18, your not seriously holding it against them for not winning in his developmental stage are you.

Gasol is the SAME player, him winning has changed the perception of him as a player, that holds true for ANY player regardless of whether Phil coaches them or not.

8kobe24
09-22-2010, 11:30 AM
How many rings could MJ have won in that situation?
Kobe has never had another coach while having the teammates
Why mention Shaq if he won without him? Pippen? Umm how many titles has Steve Kerr, Robert Horry and Dennis Rodman won without Phil? Whats the point in saying this.

Kobe and Shaq played a few years but Kobe was 18, your not seriously holding it against them for not winning in his developmental stage are you.

Gasol is the SAME player, him winning has changed the perception of him as a player, that holds true for ANY player regardless of whether Phil coaches them or not.

His point is MJ, Pip, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol were lost sheep until the shepherd came and guided them home.

WadeKobe
09-22-2010, 11:30 AM
If Phil had coached The Knicks in the 90's instead of Pat they would have won rings with them.


Kobe and Jordan hasn't won a ring without Phil....neither got out of the 1st round without Phil.....Wade is better than both because he didnt need phil to get a ring.


Pat Riley (The ultimate godfather) >>Phil Jackson.

Are you all kidding me? :facepalm:

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 11:39 AM
How many rings could MJ have won in that situation?
Kobe has never had another coach while having the teammates
Why mention Shaq if he won without him? Pippen? Umm how many titles has Steve Kerr, Robert Horry and Dennis Rodman won without Phil? Whats the point in saying this.

Kobe and Shaq played a few years but Kobe was 18, your not seriously holding it against them for not winning in his developmental stage are you.

Gasol is the SAME player, him winning has changed the perception of him as a player, that holds true for ANY player regardless of whether Phil coaches them or not.

THIS^^. He coached all of them when they were in prime. Besides, shaq won without him. Stupid arguments.

Chronz
09-22-2010, 11:41 AM
His point is MJ, Pip, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol were lost sheep until the shepherd came and guided them home.
Yea I know what he was TRYING to say, thats a pretty lame way of getting your point across. Kobe was a teen, no **** he didnt win. And once Phil left, Shaq and his troops left as well. No **** Kobes not going to win after that. Did the simple addition of Phil and Kwame get the Lakers back to title land?

What were Phil and Kobe doing before Gasol got there? Why do you only look at one side of the coin?

jackdawson
09-22-2010, 11:46 AM
Yea I know what he was TRYING to say, thats a pretty lame way of getting your point across. Kobe was a teen, no **** he didnt win. And once Phil left, Shaq and his troops left as well. No **** Kobes not going to win after that. Did the simple addition of Phil and Kwame get the Lakers back to title land?

What were Phil and Kobe doing before Gasol got there? Why do you only look at one side of the coin?

That's exactly what I have been trying to say.

effen5
09-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Yea I know what he was TRYING to say, thats a pretty lame way of getting your point across. Kobe was a teen, no **** he didnt win. And once Phil left, Shaq and his troops left as well. No **** Kobes not going to win after that. Did the simple addition of Phil and Kwame get the Lakers back to title land?

What were Phil and Kobe doing before Gasol got there? Why do you only look at one side of the coin?

Phil and Kobe was still competing in the playoffs...what was Pat Riley doing? Oh yeah tanking.

Cool007
09-22-2010, 11:57 AM
You're sig is great. Why don't you make it better and have the clip of Wade ballin' his brains out right next to it? And make sure to add the part when he is wheeled off on the wheelchair for hurting his shoulder. I remember when I hurt my shoulder and couldn't walk. :rolleyes:

Good hypocrite sig.


Hahaaaaaaaaaaa you pwned him pretty good.

:clap:

FadeAwayLikeMJ
09-22-2010, 11:59 AM
For real? damn, that sucks.

off-topic but...

greatest sig ive seen in my entire life. thank you:clap:

MrFastBreak
09-22-2010, 12:08 PM
What wins games (Four Factors)


Shooting a high field goal percentage. (efG%)
Avoiding turnovers. (TOR)
Getting offensive rebounds. (ORR)
Getting to the foul line frequently. (FTR)

Why are these factors considered so essential to winning games? The benefit of a high shooting percentage is obvious, especially since most missed shots result in defensive rebounds (and potential fast breaks). Turnovers are important because a team cannot even shoot, never mind score, if it turns over the ball during a possession. Offensive rebounding and free throws can make up for a poor shooting percentage

Teams that consistently win basketball games do AT LEAST 3 of these things well, and PJ is right, you dont necessarily need talent to do these things well.

Chronz
09-22-2010, 12:09 PM
Phil and Kobe was still competing in the playoffs...what was Pat Riley doing? Oh yeah tanking.
ummm ok? Im not a part of that debate bro, Im only challenging the logic being applied in this thread.

But even so that kind of proves my point. Even the best of the best need external factors to go in their favor in order to win. Simple win-loss tallies and # of championships dont separate the great coaches from eachother. Its funny both of these coaches were nobodies when they got the job, Phil Jackson could barely run an offense and basically stole Tex's idea and added a bunch of magical mumbo jumbo that admittedly serves a spiritual purpose. Riley was a bum when he got handed the LS job, but he became a tactical master who was one of the first to start tracking deflections and stops defensively.

Separating the players contributions from the coach is near impossible in my mind so I dont even try, but I know bad reasoning when I see it.

Cool007
09-22-2010, 12:10 PM
Just saying....

how many rings does MJ have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Kobe have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Pippen have without Phil? 0
how many rings does Shaq have without Phil? 1

How many years did Kobe and Shaq play together without Phil?

Phil coaches them to be GOAT...

They weren't GOAT before Phil, but they will be GOAT after Phil.

Gasol was a good player in Memphis...he is now a great player with the Lakers.

:clap:

/THREAD.

Chronz
09-22-2010, 12:11 PM
:clap:

/THREAD.

LOL then care to answer the rebuttal for him?

8kobe24
09-22-2010, 12:20 PM
Yea I know what he was TRYING to say, thats a pretty lame way of getting your point across. Kobe was a teen, no **** he didnt win. And once Phil left, Shaq and his troops left as well. No **** Kobes not going to win after that. Did the simple addition of Phil and Kwame get the Lakers back to title land?

What were Phil and Kobe doing before Gasol got there? Why do you only look at one side of the coin?

I wanted to put it in SIMPLEST possible way for some kinder garden minds in here, and I was trying to be funny (of course, I am not referring to you Mr. Chronz). Anyway, we all know Kobe needed (Gasol's) help to win a championship. "The other side of the coin" is pure speculation/assumption that those guys (PJ era bulls and lakers championship team) would have won with out him. Not to knock on Doug Collins and Del Harris, but they couldn't get these super stars over the hump. Btw, I am not giving all the credit to PJ, credit is due to Tex and the other assistants who established great relationship/respect with the players and employed a system to utilize not just the superstars capabities, but the role players as well.

Bottom line here is what good is a talented player without a good coach, and what good is a great coach, without a talented player? I think it's safe to say that all championship teams have had great coaches and great players.

still1ballin
09-22-2010, 12:31 PM
Pat Riley has 7 rings without even coaching the GOAT. Pat Riley immediately made the knicks relevant when the franchise was lost for 20 years or so. Pat Riley made the Heat relevant immediately. He proved he can win and he doesn't need the best team in the league (2006) for that, which Jackson hasn't proved yet. Pat Riley has also proved he is one of the greatest GMs/Presidents in the league history if not the greatest (Brought in Alonzo, Hardaway, Shaq, LeBron, Bosh, Wade while all in their prime). Ask Jerry West, he will tell you what Pat Riley is all about.

LOL...Pat had 3 HOF's one being probably the best PG to ever play along with Worthy and Kareem lol.


So by your logic you are telling me that:

Riley > PJ

lolz

Hawkeye15
09-22-2010, 12:42 PM
Phil knows this first hand. 04' finals, he had easily the two best players in the series, and they lost.

arkanian215
09-22-2010, 12:43 PM
Doesn't always, but it often does.

Chronz
09-22-2010, 12:57 PM
Phil knows this first hand. 04' finals, he had easily the two best players in the series, and they lost.
How is that a good example when the Pistons had the most talent?

still1ballin
09-22-2010, 01:08 PM
How is that a good example when the Pistons had the most talent?

?

Chronz
09-22-2010, 01:11 PM
I wanted to put it in SIMPLEST possible way for some kinder garden minds in here, and I was trying to be funny (of course, I am not referring to you Mr. Chronz). Anyway, we all know Kobe needed (Gasol's) help to win a championship. "The other side of the coin" is pure speculation/assumption that those guys (PJ era bulls and lakers championship team) would have won with out him.
Yea but its even more speculative that not having Phil around is what prevented those guys from winning when the truth is those guys hadnt yet developed into championship caliber players. Its not like the Bulls won the year they added Phil, in fact Im pretty sure they lost more games. I could see your point if the Roster stayed the same in terms of development but Collins didnt have the Pippen and Grant Phil inherited. Del Harris didnt get the Kobe Phil got. Those are significant additions/improvements that would have occurred with or without Phil.


Not to knock on Doug Collins and Del Harris, but they couldn't get these super stars over the hump
Thats because, despite what Phil says, they lacked the talent to win. The reason Shaq didnt win before Phil was because Kobe was a kid and the rest of the team was full of cancerous chokers like Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel that and the fact that their own coaching situation and roster makeover had its experienced its own turmoil. The addition of Phil obviously makes them better but it wasnt just his addition. Kobe had become enough of a threat that the Lakers could rely on 2 stars to perform every given night as opposed to hoping one of the chokers wouldnt choke so bad. How can you say those stars never won without Phil if they were never given an adequate chance, those same stars lost WITH Phil so whats the point?


Btw, I am not giving all the credit to PJ, credit is due to Tex and the other assistants who established great relationship/respect with the players and employed a system to utilize not just the superstars capabities, but the role players as well.

Bottom line here is what good is a talented player without a good coach, and what good is a great coach, without a talented player? I think it's safe to say that all championship teams have had great coaches and great players.
Thats fair, what you cant do, is allude to the idea that his addition is what made them champs or that they couldnt win without him. Coincidences are real.

PJ probably is the greatest coach of all time but even the best coaches dont impact the game to such a large degree IMO. I still see the Lakers winning titles if Phil isnt on the sideline this past year, what I dont see is them coming close without either Kobe or Pau.

It just seems like you were trying to say, in order to win Pau needs Phil more than Phil needs Pau. Thats simply not true


?
The best defensive team in NBA history vs an injured team. Dont mistake being favored for having the superior team, I cant tell you how much money Ive made (Because Ive smoked it all) over people making the mistake that HCA/Popularity tells all.

The minute the Pistons got Sheed and went on that run defensively I had them as legit contenders, on par with the Lakers. That Malone went down and GP declined as the season went on, only made choosing the Pistons a no brainer for me.

Chronz
09-22-2010, 01:20 PM
Doesn't always, but it often does.

Whens the last time a lesser talented team won? Was the best team hurt that year? If so I dont think that should count as having less talent if the opposite team cant put its talent on the floor. Im sure it happens but I cant remember the last time. Probably one of Dreams chips because Ewing could have won that title had he not choked.

still1ballin
09-22-2010, 01:24 PM
The best defensive team in NBA history vs an injured team. Dont mistake being favored for having the superior team, I cant tell you how much money Ive made (Because Ive smoked it all) over people making the mistake that HCA/Popularity tells all.

The minute the Pistons got Sheed and went on that run defensively I had them as legit contenders, on par with the Lakers. That Malone went down and GP declined as the season went on, only made choosing the Pistons a no brainer for me.

That explains it then. On paper, Lakers are the better team but they were indeed injured so that gave an edge to the Pistons, but Lakers were still the favorites to win. Pistons still shocked the NBA by taking the Lakers out in 5.

RaiderLakersA's
09-22-2010, 01:26 PM
Only in the PSD NBA forum can you have a great coach tell you that it takes TEAMWORK to win championships, yet have that notion ridiculed, especially by upstarts.

Jordan never won a ring without his teammates contributing at key junctures.

Shaq never won a ring without his teammates contributing at key junctures.

Kobe never won a ring without his teammates contributing at key junctures.

Teamwork and chemistry matters more than you think.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2010, 01:38 PM
How is that a good example when the Pistons had the most talent?

how are we measuring talent here? 1-8, or the best players, meaning, Shaq and Kobe? I can understand saying players 4-8 were better for Detroit. But how did the Lakers beat teams that I thought had more talent than the Pistons? I think the Wolves had more talent than the Pistons that year, but Sam's injury doomed them.

Chronz
09-22-2010, 01:38 PM
Only in the PSD NBA forum can you have a great coach tell you that it takes TEAMWORK to win championships, yet have that notion ridiculed, especially by upstarts.

Jordan never won a ring without his teammates contributing at key junctures.

Shaq never won a ring without his teammates contributing at key junctures.

Kobe never won a ring without his teammates contributing at key junctures.

Teamwork and chemistry matters more than you think.

I thought they were just laughing at the irony of Phil telling people talent doesnt always win, yet every one of his championships (As a coach atleast) has been because of overwhelming talent. And every one of his losses has been to superior teams. He could be basing his opinion on NBA history and his personal experience defeating the Lakers Big 3. But I dont see the logic in pointing out the small % of times it doesnt happen.

Sure Phil sometimes the best talent doesnt win, just like the weatherman isnt 100% accurate. But I wont be ignoring his predictions of rain on the off chance hes wrong.

Still the Heat COULD be like the Lakers of Wilt/West era, that team didnt win until it downgraded its talent base with more complimentary players. But they could also be like the Heat that just recently won the title, a team that didnt win until it upgraded its talent level and got rid of those complimentary players.

You can win titles a variety of ways, so I dont see the point in mentioning the argument, especially when its historically in favor of the most talented team.

Chronz
09-22-2010, 01:44 PM
how are we measuring talent here? 1-8, or the best players, meaning, Shaq and Kobe? I can understand saying players 4-8 were better for Detroit. But how did the Lakers beat teams that I thought had more talent than the Pistons? I think the Wolves had more talent than the Pistons that year, but Sam's injury doomed them.
Why wouldnt you measure the impact of everyone who contributed? If Shaq and Kobe are the best players but the next 5-6 players belong to the Pistons that means the Lakers have the most crap players in the series. Thats going to offset that advantage.

Put it this way, when you have to rely on Slava for extended duty, you cant be THAT talented. Had they had Malone healthy I wouldve still favored the Pistons but it wouldve been tight.

junion
09-22-2010, 01:48 PM
Many people say that Phil Jackson leached off of Kobe, Shaq, and Jordan... But have you ever considered the fact that those players were as great as they were because of Phil Jackson? Look at the Clippers (over the years) they have had great talent, but under failed coaching, they never became great. This goes for many other players on many failure of coaches. You can't penalize a coach just because the players he was given.

If you Heat fans are so sure your team will win, and all you Heat haters are so sure they won't win the championship, why don't you make a sig bet right now? If the Heat win, all the haters wear Heat sigs for the offseason, and if the Heat lose, then all the Heat fans wear the sig of the winner. Do it!

Anyway, putting talent together can bring you championship(s), but he's right, it doesn't guarantee the championship. Yes the chances are higher, but history has shown that it's not guaranteed.

Chronz
09-22-2010, 01:51 PM
That explains it then. On paper, Lakers are the better team but they were indeed injured so that gave an edge to the Pistons, but Lakers were still the favorites to win. Pistons still shocked the NBA by taking the Lakers out in 5.
I guess, I still think the Pistons win that series even with a healthy Malone because of their insane depth but I wouldnt have thought it would be as easy. Looking back the fact that they basically won all 5 games or if you want to be a prude they won 4 impressively and barely lost 1, I dont see how Malone makes up for a such a large difference in play. The Lakers were just mauled. Ive never seen a team with Kobe-Shaq look so utterly and thoroughly defeated.

Missing56&33
09-22-2010, 01:52 PM
I totally agree with Phil Jackson and this is the reason why you will see Pat Riley coaching the Heat before the end of the season.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2010, 01:54 PM
Why wouldnt you measure the impact of everyone who contributed? If Shaq and Kobe are the best players but the next 5-6 players belong to the Pistons that means the Lakers have the most crap players in the series. Thats going to offset that advantage.

Put it this way, when you have to rely on Slava for extended duty, you cant be THAT talented. Had they had Malone healthy I wouldve still favored the Pistons but it wouldve been tight.

I would measure all those who contributed. I frankly think the Lakers underachieved in that series, but none of that matters. And listing Slava is showing the weak link, not the full strengths. I do think the stars aligned for Detroit that year. I was salivating at the thought that the Wolves only had to try and get through the Lakers, and play the Pistons, whom the Wolves had handled twice in the regular season with no problems really

Chronz
09-22-2010, 02:20 PM
I would measure all those who contributed. I frankly think the Lakers underachieved in that series, but none of that matters. And listing Slava is showing the weak link, not the full strengths. I do think the stars aligned for Detroit that year. I was salivating at the thought that the Wolves only had to try and get through the Lakers, and play the Pistons, whom the Wolves had handled twice in the regular season with no problems really
Lakers underachieved because of the defense applied, dont see how the Stars aligned when the Pistons continued to prove their talent worth beyond that season. The Wolves won 2 games by 1 PT each, one before Sheed even got there the other came in Sheeds first game as a Piston, those are losses by the Twolves in my book.

SteveNash
09-22-2010, 03:13 PM
The LA comparison isn't all that great. They were all past their primes and Baylor was an aging team cancer. It'd be like having Miami play with AI/Wade/Bosh wouldn't work.

Which is why LA won the title immediately after Baylor retired.


I would measure all those who contributed. I frankly think the Lakers underachieved in that series, but none of that matters. And listing Slava is showing the weak link, not the full strengths. I do think the stars aligned for Detroit that year. I was salivating at the thought that the Wolves only had to try and get through the Lakers, and play the Pistons, whom the Wolves had handled twice in the regular season with no problems really

:laugh:

effen5
09-22-2010, 03:14 PM
Many people say that Phil Jackson leached off of Kobe, Shaq, and Jordan... But have you ever considered the fact that those players were as great as they were because of Phil Jackson? Look at the Clippers (over the years) they have had great talent, but under failed coaching, they never became great. This goes for many other players on many failure of coaches. You can't penalize a coach just because the players he was given.

If you Heat fans are so sure your team will win, and all you Heat haters are so sure they won't win the championship, why don't you make a sig bet right now? If the Heat win, all the haters wear Heat sigs for the offseason, and if the Heat lose, then all the Heat fans wear the sig of the winner. Do it!

Anyway, putting talent together can bring you championship(s), but he's right, it doesn't guarantee the championship. Yes the chances are higher, but history has shown that it's not guaranteed.


Agreed and kind of what I said about PJ being the reason why these players turned great.

IDB Josh M
09-22-2010, 03:37 PM
Many people say that Phil Jackson leached off of Kobe, Shaq, and Jordan... But have you ever considered the fact that those players were as great as they were because of Phil Jackson? Look at the Clippers (over the years) they have had great talent, but under failed coaching, they never became great. This goes for many other players on many failure of coaches. You can't penalize a coach just because the players he was given.

If you Heat fans are so sure your team will win, and all you Heat haters are so sure they won't win the championship, why don't you make a sig bet right now? If the Heat win, all the haters wear Heat sigs for the offseason, and if the Heat lose, then all the Heat fans wear the sig of the winner. Do it!

Anyway, putting talent together can bring you championship(s), but he's right, it doesn't guarantee the championship. Yes the chances are higher, but history has shown that it's not guaranteed.

I always say, neither Pippen nor Jordan was able to win a title without Phil. In fact, Shaq is the only player to have that honor, but he still had to be coached by Pat Riley to win a title without Phil.

sep11ie
09-22-2010, 03:54 PM
LOL@Phil Jackson

CountSackula
09-22-2010, 04:02 PM
Phil Jackson = real life troll. :D

Chronz
09-22-2010, 04:15 PM
The LA comparison isn't all that great. They were all past their primes and Baylor was an aging team cancer. It'd be like having Miami play with AI/Wade/Bosh wouldn't work.

Which is why LA won the title immediately after Baylor retired.


All that said and accounted for, you still dont think they had more talent than the Willis Reed-less Knicks?

PS Whats your take on the zietgist movement (however you spell it), I know you keep up with all that.

madiaz3
09-22-2010, 04:23 PM
Yet the same players Phil coached couldn't win without him. Could be a fluke, but not ten times.

madiaz3
09-22-2010, 04:25 PM
The LA comparison isn't all that great. They were all past their primes and Baylor was an aging team cancer. It'd be like having Miami play with AI/Wade/Bosh wouldn't work.

Which is why LA won the title immediately after Baylor retired.



:laugh:

Wait, did he actually use two regular season games as a reason for why they would have won the championship???

championships
09-22-2010, 04:55 PM
JordansBulls, Do you realize Phil is saying the same thing as the Jordan quote in your sig?

SteveNash
09-22-2010, 08:19 PM
All that said and accounted for, you still dont think they had more talent than the Willis Reed-less Knicks?

PS Whats your take on the zietgist movement (however you spell it), I know you keep up with all that.

Talent alone doesn't win championships.

And the Zeitgiest movement is dumber than the Libertarianism.

There's some good ideas in there, but sorting it out among the sea of crazies and actually being able to execute those ideas are just pure fantasy.

jerellh528
09-22-2010, 08:42 PM
Phil just don't know whats coming.

I suppose you do? hahah
:facepalm:

MrfadeawayJB
09-22-2010, 08:43 PM
Easy for him to say!!! lol

futureman
09-23-2010, 11:45 AM
If that's true Phil, why don't you go coach memphis?