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redbird89
09-19-2010, 01:09 AM
Not sure if many remember the Cardinals vs. Reds brawl in Cincinnati on August 10. Johnny Cueto was pinned up against the netting by his own teammates. He began kicking with his cleats and he kicked Jason LaRue in the face and chest, causing a concussion and bruised ribs. He also kicked Chris Carpenter in the back. It was not known at the time how bad the injuries were and suspensions have to be handed down with 48 hours I think. Cueto was suspended one start.

The reason I bring this up is that, due to the concussion symptoms, Jason LaRue's career is now over. Meanwhile, Cueto is still pitching. Here's the link: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_324aa4d7-ff34-5706-b12a-b1a023d58d00.html

Obviously, this was talked about a lot when it happened. I wanted to return to the topic. If one player's actions end the career of another's, but it's not known immediately that that will happen, should the MLB be able to extend the suspension of the offending player? I can't help but think if the MLB knew at the time that this would end LaRue's career, Cueto would have been suspended longer.


Resulting trauma to the brain left LaRue unable to drive or even to cook for himself. Minimal activity created sensations that he likened to seasickness, as LaRue would develop excruciating headaches and nausea.

Watching television or riding in a car for more than a couple miles brought on symptoms. Eventually doctors ordered him to rejoin his family in Texas since he was in no condition to be left alone here.

That kind of wounding really sounds like it should result in more than a one-game suspension. A concussion is bad enough, but purposefully causing one is worse. LaRue has recovered quite a bit, but he's still not 100%.

Still, LaRue is 36 and

La Rue estimates he has suffered "close to 20" concussions in his athletic career dating to high school football. Doctors warned him the next one might bring about symptoms at least, if not more, severe than what he now experiences.


Friends say that LaRue contemplated taking legal action against Cueto for the on-field assault that led to his condition but has since discarded the idea. La Rue says that he has no interest in pursuing the matter. However, he remains peeved over the actions of a player Carpenter described as 'some idiot."

"I was going to retire on my own terms," LaRue says. "It's unfortunate that the blow that decided it came from someone kicking me in the head with spikes. I wouldn't say I would change things if you could rewrite history. They say things happen for certain reasons. In this case, I couldn't tell you why. Does it suck that my career is over because Johnny Cueto started kicking me in the head? Yes, it sucks.

So LaRue likely would have retired soon anyway. Still, the actions of Cueto made LaRue's return impossible. Should Cueto have been suspended longer? Should any player who purposefully injures another be suspended longer if the injured player is forced to retire?

downsos
09-19-2010, 01:31 AM
Not sure if many remember the Cardinals vs. Reds brawl in Cincinnati on August 10. Johnny Cueto was pinned up against the netting by his own teammates. He began kicking with his cleats and he kicked Jason LaRue in the face and chest, causing a concussion and bruised ribs. He also kicked Chris Carpenter in the back. It was not known at the time how bad the injuries were and suspensions have to be handed down with 48 hours I think. Cueto was suspended one start.

The reason I bring this up is that, due to the concussion symptoms, Jason LaRue's career is now over. Meanwhile, Cueto is still pitching. Here's the link: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_324aa4d7-ff34-5706-b12a-b1a023d58d00.html

Obviously, this was talked about a lot when it happened. I wanted to return to the topic. If one player's actions end the career of another's, but it's not known immediately that that will happen, should the MLB be able to extend the suspension of the offending player? I can't help but think if the MLB knew at the time that this would end LaRue's career, Cueto would have been suspended longer.



That kind of wounding really sounds like it should result in more than a one-game suspension. A concussion is bad enough, but purposefully causing one is worse. LaRue has recovered quite a bit, but he's still not 100%.

Still, LaRue is 36 and




So LaRue likely would have retired soon anyway. Still, the actions of Cueto made LaRue's return impossible. Should Cueto have been suspended longer? Should any player who purposefully injures another be suspended longer if the injured player is forced to retire?

In that situation he is pinned up against the fence. If I was in that situation I would be kicking too because it was kinda scary. The real situation is why the umpires didn't stop the brawl from even happening. Right when Molina stands up and they're in each others face you toss them. After what Phillips said you knew there was going to be retaliation. Did the ump think they were going to have a civilizied conversation up there? You toss them both and the brawl never happens.

Since Cueto only got 1 game it leads me to believe that it was a heat of the moment thing where he was scared and acted poorly and most likely sorry about what happened. That many people that are fighting doesn't lead to good sound decisions.

salto
09-19-2010, 09:40 AM
Give me a break, there were no less than 10 guys pinned up against the same fence. Cueto was the only punk kicking. He should be banned from the game for ending another players career, intentionally. Accidental injuries happen in all of sport. Crashing into home plate, pitchers losing their control and hitting batters are all accidents that happen and are an acceptable risk. The only reason you kick someone in the face is to intentionally injure them. He's a punk and should be out of baseball. A punch to the face would not have been nearly as violent. Kicking with metal cleated shoes is unacceptable

WoodandNails
09-19-2010, 09:56 AM
Just because he was intentionally kicking doesn't mean he was trying to end somebody's career. This isn't the NHL. You don't hand out suspensions based on the outcome, you do it based on the offense. If a pitcher has a ball slip and hits a player in the head, ending their career, does he then deserve a suspension? I could agree with an argument that says Cueto deserved to miss more than one game originally, but no way you add to the suspension a month later because of this information.

And let's be honest. LaRue is a 36 year-old catcher who hasn't posted an OBP of over .300 or an OPS over .650 in four years. His career was over before getting kicked in the noggin.

WoodandNails
09-19-2010, 10:00 AM
The only reason you kick someone in the face is to intentionally injure them. He's a punk and should be out of baseball. A punch to the face would not have been nearly as violent. Kicking with metal cleated shoes is unacceptable

If he were standing in the batter's box during a normal plate appearance, then this statement is correct. But when you're talking about it in the context of a fight, then it can be attributed to self defense. And even if what you're saying was true, doesn't that mean everybody in the brawl who was on the attack rather than working to restrain others was attempting to injure a player on the other team? In that case, why should Cueto's suspension be so much longer than theirs, just because he was successful?

mark1125
09-19-2010, 11:03 AM
If the Cards want justice, they will have to extract it next time they face Cueto. When he bats, put a fastball in his ribs.

Brew Crew
09-19-2010, 11:10 AM
You're a coward when you start kicking people with your shoes that have medal spikes on the bottom of them. You might as well bring out the bats.

jetsfan28
09-19-2010, 11:18 AM
If he were standing in the batter's box during a normal plate appearance, then this statement is correct. But when you're talking about it in the context of a fight, then it can be attributed to self defense. And even if what you're saying was true, doesn't that mean everybody in the brawl who was on the attack rather than working to restrain others was attempting to injure a player on the other team? In that case, why should Cueto's suspension be so much longer than theirs, just because he was successful?

This. His penalty doesn't become worse because he happened to hit a catcher with a **** load of concussions who probably eventually would've had the same thing happen to him on some random foul ball.

Ron!n
09-19-2010, 11:54 AM
Unless you can prove that he was gunning for LaRue and he was trying to injure him then no.

Joemoes
09-19-2010, 12:08 PM
This. His penalty doesn't become worse because he happened to hit a catcher with a **** load of concussions who probably eventually would've had the same thing happen to him on some random foul ball.

metal spike with no helmet on or a foul ball with a helmet on. Don't defend Cueto it has nothing to do with his age and past he still ended his career. I could careless if he was going to retire soon or didnt have that many years left. He was a backup catcher and generally they dont hit well. Maybe he wanted to play independent league after his career in mlb maybe he wanted to coach this affected him for the longterm.

Cueto should have been suspended longer but you cant suspend someone again its like if someone robs a bank and he gets 8years and he gets out and they say umm we decided your going to do another 4 years.

Larue should take legal action. The MLB should make him give a public apology to help set a better example for kids.

and by the way Jetsfan are you looking for some Jets tickets. they are for halloween night got a set of 4 trying to sell accidently bought 2 sets of 4 tickets by clicking submit twice..i think its section 108

Joemoes
09-19-2010, 12:08 PM
Unless you can prove that he was gunning for LaRue and he was trying to injure him then no.

So if someone has a gun and is trying to kill someone and misses kills the person standing next to him they shouldnt get charged with murder?

hugepatsfan
09-19-2010, 12:50 PM
It was an unfortunate accident. And how do you guys know Cueto was the only one kicking? It was a brawl - there's a lot you don't see.

Pinstripe pride
09-20-2010, 08:52 AM
kicking or not, no one can honestly say his inentions were to end someones career. he's clearly an ******* for kicking someone at all, but the results do not imp,y intent. he should have been suspended, but banned from baseball is a bit much

I75
09-20-2010, 09:55 AM
Gets tricky when benches clear. Guess it could be a once you run out into a brawl it's at your own risk even if your trying to separate and gather your players. Obviously kicking is dirty and should result in punishment and treated on basis not a minimum/maximum punishment. You could kick someone or punch someone and due career ending injury. What if you kick the opponent and no injury happened but the intent was there?

Lets say you have a guy like Jose Offerman assault a player with a bat then it's obviously intent to injure and harm then an immediate barring from the league is handed down.

RTL
09-20-2010, 10:08 AM
It amazes me how people can defend Cueto for kicking people in the head with cleats. He acted like a huge ***** and the result of that was ending a man's career. If you say you would have done the same thing in Cueto's position, you are a ***** too. No excuse for it and trust me, the Cards are definitely going to put one in Cueto's ribs and most likely more than once.

BDawk4Prez
09-20-2010, 10:14 AM
He was pinned against a fence and was probably scared shitless.

I would have kicked, scratched, punched, clawed, bit my way out of harms way too.

redbird89
09-20-2010, 10:30 AM
Nobody else kicked, though. Carpenter was as pinned as Cueto and Carpenter didn't kick anybody. There was no need to kick. Besides, Cueto ran around the pack and put himself in the back of it and it was his own players pinning him. If he was kicking those who pinned him, he should have kicked his own teammates. I don't know if he meant to end LaRue's career. He definitely meant to kick LaRue in the face with his cleats. There is absolutely no excuse for that. Throwing a punch is one thing. Kicking with your cleats is the same as picking up a bat a swinging at people's heads. It's unacceptable. Cueto is scum. He did deserve a longer suspension and he will get one in the ribs next year, especially if Carpenter is pitching. Carp got his back cut from Cueto's cleats, though his injuries weren't as bad.

It is interesting that the most recent trip the Reds made to St. Louis, Cueto had a "family emergency" and couldn't make the trip. I mean, maybe he did, but it seems convenient that he had an emergency just for that trip.

Johnny Cueto is scum. There's no getting around that. Brandon Phillips is an idiot, but at least he fights with words instead of metal cleats.

Spiking people in the face with your cleats is worse than taking a bat to someone's head. If Cueto had used a bat he likely would have been suspended longer.

I75
09-20-2010, 10:41 AM
[QUOTE=RTL;14939784]It amazes me how people can defend Cueto for kicking people in the head with cleats. He acted like a huge ***** and the result of that was ending a man's career. If you say you would have done the same thing in Cueto's position, you are a ***** too. No excuse for it and trust me, the Cards are definitely going to put one in Cueto's ribs and most likely more than once.[/QUl

Learned this at a young age all's fair in love and war. What is considered fair or dirty in a fight? In any given moment you could be killed with a fair but freak blow with a fair punch to the head or your head hitting the ground in a fall. Fight is a fight (empty handed).

Ironic fight with intent to harm.
In a televised game against the Minnesota Twins on May 14, 1982, a bench-clearing brawl erupted after Twins pitchers hit both Chet Lemon and Enos Cabell. Rozema came running out of the dugout and attempted to deliver a flying karate kick to the Twins' John Castino. Rozema missed and tore eight ligaments in his knee and had to be carried off the field on a stretcher. He had knee surgery the next day and was put on the disabled list for the rest of the 1982 season. wiki credited.

salto
09-20-2010, 11:32 AM
Self defense? He started kicking Carpenter in the back. I'm sure Chris was being the aggressor, right? Please explain the aggression Carpenter was showing Cueto by turning his back to him. So Lil ****** Cueto starts kicking Carp in the back, an dLarue comes to try and get his friend and teammate out of harms way. For this, he is kicked by the only guy in the whole melee that is swinging or kicking anything, Cueto. Until then it had been a shoving, and verbal sparring match. So Cueto feared for his own safety? Yeah, I'm sure Carp's back really looked intimidating. Watch the video guys, he was the only one turning violent and it cost a player his career.

RTL
09-20-2010, 01:40 PM
Cueto was being pinned by his own players. Real scary **** right there. This "all is fair in a fight" ******** is just that, ********. I learned this at a young age, how to fight like a man. Kicking is not included, especially kicking someone in the back like he did Carpenter and definitely not kicking someone in the head with spikes on. NO EXCUSE FOR CUETO'S ACTIONS!!

Kinsm
09-21-2010, 01:31 AM
Just because he was intentionally kicking doesn't mean he was trying to end somebody's career. This isn't the NHL. You don't hand out suspensions based on the outcome, you do it based on the offense. If a pitcher has a ball slip and hits a player in the head, ending their career, does he then deserve a suspension? I could agree with an argument that says Cueto deserved to miss more than one game originally, but no way you add to the suspension a month later because of this information.

And let's be honest. LaRue is a 36 year-old catcher who hasn't posted an OBP of over .300 or an OPS over .650 in four years. His career was over before getting kicked in the noggin.

^

Jeffy25
09-21-2010, 02:39 AM
Just because he was intentionally kicking doesn't mean he was trying to end somebody's career. This isn't the NHL. You don't hand out suspensions based on the outcome, you do it based on the offense. If a pitcher has a ball slip and hits a player in the head, ending their career, does he then deserve a suspension? I could agree with an argument that says Cueto deserved to miss more than one game originally, but no way you add to the suspension a month later because of this information.

And let's be honest. LaRue is a 36 year-old catcher who hasn't posted an OBP of over .300 or an OPS over .650 in four years. His career was over before getting kicked in the noggin.

The OP and Salto both clearly said, when asking their questions, that this is only about 'intentional' situations.

Anything accidental, obviously, no.

Rose didn't MEAN to end Fosse's career, but he did. It was still a punk move, but it wasn't intentional.

In this instance, it has been clearly proven that Cueto had ever possibility to avoid this confrontation. Even Frank Robinson himself stated why Cueto's suspension was given the amount it was. Cueto can clearly be seen running to the front of the pack during this brawl, he can clearly be seen pulling himself up on the net. The other players placed in that situation did not kick, only Cueto.

The suspension was compared to suspensions in the past where a pitcher had an extreme reaction, like Juan Marcial's. That is what they based it on, not the severity of LaRue, or the outcome.

I said initially, that Cueto should be suspended until LaRue was cleared to return. It is ridiculous that a player receives such an extreme injury, and the offender of that injury only miss one start.

Should it be reinvestigated for further disciplinary action? No. Is it still a ***** move by Cueto that is somehow still defended by people? Yes.

Jeffy25
09-21-2010, 02:41 AM
If he were standing in the batter's box during a normal plate appearance, then this statement is correct. But when you're talking about it in the context of a fight, then it can be attributed to self defense. And even if what you're saying was true, doesn't that mean everybody in the brawl who was on the attack rather than working to restrain others was attempting to injure a player on the other team? In that case, why should Cueto's suspension be so much longer than theirs, just because he was successful?

Frank Robinson said that Cueto's suspension was in large part because this was not self defense.

He was intentionally trying to cause harm with his feet.

Jeffy25
09-21-2010, 02:44 AM
It was an unfortunate accident. And how do you guys know Cueto was the only one kicking? It was a brawl - there's a lot you don't see.

I feel that Frank Robinson and the umpires league pretty well got everything correct, as far as seeing replies again. They apparently have the entire altercation, word for word, recorded, from many different angles. Cueto was the only one kicking, no one else even threw punches. There was shoving, no punches, and one ***** kicking.

Jeffy25
09-21-2010, 02:46 AM
He was pinned against a fence and was probably scared shitless.

I would have kicked, scratched, punched, clawed, bit my way out of harms way too.

I am going to go with what the poster before you said here.

And that Cueto was probably not scared. If he was scared, he would be have been running away from the altercation. He ran to the front of the brawl....while the other starting pitcher of the day....Jaime Garcia, avoided the altercation altogether, he had a game to pitch.

Jeffy25
09-21-2010, 02:48 AM
Nobody else kicked, though. Carpenter was as pinned as Cueto and Carpenter didn't kick anybody. There was no need to kick. Besides, Cueto ran around the pack and put himself in the back of it and it was his own players pinning him. If he was kicking those who pinned him, he should have kicked his own teammates. I don't know if he meant to end LaRue's career. He definitely meant to kick LaRue in the face with his cleats. There is absolutely no excuse for that. Throwing a punch is one thing. Kicking with your cleats is the same as picking up a bat a swinging at people's heads. It's unacceptable. Cueto is scum. He did deserve a longer suspension and he will get one in the ribs next year, especially if Carpenter is pitching. Carp got his back cut from Cueto's cleats, though his injuries weren't as bad.

It is interesting that the most recent trip the Reds made to St. Louis, Cueto had a "family emergency" and couldn't make the trip. I mean, maybe he did, but it seems convenient that he had an emergency just for that trip.

Johnny Cueto is scum. There's no getting around that. Brandon Phillips is an idiot, but at least he fights with words instead of metal cleats.

Spiking people in the face with your cleats is worse than taking a bat to someone's head. If Cueto had used a bat he likely would have been suspended longer.

apparently his uncle died? I don't really remember.

agoody117
09-21-2010, 08:22 AM
his career was over this year regardless of whether the brawl happened or not.

Jeffy25
09-21-2010, 09:27 AM
his career was over this year regardless of whether the brawl happened or not.

I'm pretty sure he was going to have at least one more shot as a backup somewhere in 2011.

And as another poster said, it doesn't matter, this messes up more than just his career being over or not. This effects other areas of life, including his livelihood, baseball.

I75
09-21-2010, 09:36 AM
Cueto was being pinned by his own players. Real scary **** right there. This "all is fair in a fight" ******** is just that, ********. I learned this at a young age, how to fight like a man. Kicking is not included, especially kicking someone in the back like he did Carpenter and definitely not kicking someone in the head with spikes on. NO EXCUSE FOR CUETO'S ACTIONS!!

Yeah cuz fights are always "fair" when there are no ref's or regulation present. Assume always your life is in danger. Your life is in danger on the field W/O "dirty fighting" Look at Tyler Colvin or that one minor league coach struck in the head by a ball, or Pete Rose taking out a catcher at home or having him at dinner with your family on Christmas.

Personally I think fighting in all sports should be banned. Immediate barring once you charge or clear the bench and pen. If players are HBP intentionally or repeatedly, warn em toss em before it escalates and let Selig hand out fines and suspensions.

Fair, unfair, dirty, clean, who cares it doesn't belong in baseball, leave that to the homoerotic UFC, WWE and the Canadians.

RTL
09-21-2010, 10:43 AM
None of you know LaRue's career was going to be with regardless of the ***** kicking him. The Cardinals loved him and probably would have brought him back. To bring up his age is ********. How old is Brad Ausmus? Backup's can play for a long time. Fact is this is why his career has ended, because some ***** pitcher kicked him in the face.

CardsRule5
09-21-2010, 11:43 AM
I want to end Cueto's career. How can anyone be on his side of this bull ****? Kicking in this case isn't self defense. If it was, he would have kicked his way out without anyone being injured. He ended LaRue's career. Some think his career in the MLB sucked anyway, but he is a player who had a good career. It sucks it ends this way. Cueto's actions were not worth a one game suspension.

I75
09-21-2010, 05:45 PM
This needs to be addressed and taken seriously by Selig.

Wonder if the Union takes care of a player that's injured like that. Some kinda workman's comp, specialists, Aflac (kidding, bet Yogi has it)?

Jeffy25
09-21-2010, 05:51 PM
I'm sure the Union will do something for him.

Rylinkus
09-21-2010, 06:07 PM
I'm shocked that people are defending Cueto. Cleats are a weapon. Period. The fact that his goal wasn't to end a man's career is trivial. He was brandishing a weapon in a dangerous and irresponsible manner. Now maybe LaRue's career was in it's twilight. And if he'd happen to have kicked a player that wasn't riddled with concussions or his kick had landed differently nothing major would have happened. But obviously Cueto had no control over the outcome. And he could have just as easily ended a younger players career, or if he caught the jugular, life.

Mike Oxlong
09-21-2010, 07:46 PM
If I was pinned up against a wall with mayhem going on all around me I would start to kick too. Better them than you.

Mike Oxlong is on Cueto's side. What are supossed to do at that point? Curl up in a ball? He has to defend himself somehow.

Jeffy25
09-21-2010, 11:53 PM
If I was pinned up against a wall with mayhem going on all around me I would start to kick too. Better them than you.

Mike Oxlong is on Cueto's side. What are supossed to do at that point? Curl up in a ball? He has to defend himself somehow.

I believe we have established that his actions were not in self defense

RTL
09-22-2010, 12:01 AM
If I was pinned up against a wall with mayhem going on all around me I would start to kick too. Better them than you.

Mike Oxlong is on Cueto's side. What are supossed to do at that point? Curl up in a ball? He has to defend himself somehow.

Third person? Really? Cueto was pinned by his own players. I guess you're supposed to stay protected by your own men rather than kicking people with cleats.

redbird89
09-24-2010, 06:21 PM
I'm shocked that people are defending Cueto. Cleats are a weapon. Period. The fact that his goal wasn't to end a man's career is trivial. He was brandishing a weapon in a dangerous and irresponsible manner. Now maybe LaRue's career was in it's twilight. And if he'd happen to have kicked a player that wasn't riddled with concussions or his kick had landed differently nothing major would have happened. But obviously Cueto had no control over the outcome. And he could have just as easily ended a younger players career, or if he caught the jugular, life.

Or it could have caused blindness. One of LaRue's cuts was at the very edge of his eye. Even a fraction of an inch to the right and he may have been blinded in (I think it was his left eye).

Cub_StuckinSTL
09-24-2010, 07:05 PM
Larue sucks and brawls happen. Pretty sure your pretty boy Carp was suspended their too. Whos to say he didn't have intent to injure someone?

Mike Oxlong
09-24-2010, 07:11 PM
I believe we have established that his actions were not in self defense


Third person? Really? Cueto was pinned by his own players. I guess you're supposed to stay protected by your own men rather than kicking people with cleats.

You guys aren't going to change my mind on this. If you are in a brawl with 30 ****ing guys running around and are pinned what to do? I say you don't fight fair you fight to win. I wish he did get blinded because he put himself in that postion, he has no one to blame but himself.

Skippy15
09-24-2010, 07:32 PM
Larue sucks and brawls happen. Pretty sure your pretty boy Carp was suspended their too. Whos to say he didn't have intent to injure someone?

No carpenter was not suspended. And if I were a cub fan I wouldnt make comments about them unless i knew i was right.

and if he sucks or not doesnt mean anything. its a issue of right or wrong and Cueto was wrong to kick anyone, and even more so in the head

Mike Oxlong
09-24-2010, 07:37 PM
Well what's the difference between throwing punces and kicking? The intent of both is to hurt someone.

Skippy15
09-24-2010, 07:37 PM
You guys aren't going to change my mind on this. If you are in a brawl with 30 ****ing guys running around and are pinned what to do? I say you don't fight fair you fight to win. I wish he did get blinded because he put himself in that postion, he has no one to blame but himself.

ummm. Cueto put himself in the position. he went running into the brawl like a total freaking moron.

Cueto shoulda been suspended for at least 30 games.

how about Delmon Young in the minor leauges throwing a bat at the umpire? he was suspended 50 games for that whats the difference

both involve a weapon. A bat, Metal spikes, intent to hurt somebody. different situations with the same general intent. to hurt someone. Cueto is a piece of ****

Cub_StuckinSTL
09-24-2010, 07:37 PM
No carpenter was not suspended. And if I were a cub fan I wouldnt make comments about them unless i knew i was right.

and if he sucks or not doesnt mean anything. its a issue of right or wrong and Cueto was wrong to kick anyone, and even more so in the head

O my bad he was just fined. Doesn't change the fact its a fight what do you expect? Everyone would grab pillows and have fun?

Skippy15
09-24-2010, 07:38 PM
Well what's the difference between throwing punces and kicking? The intent of both is to hurt someone.

the difference is a pair of metal spikes could kill someone very easily if hit in the right spot. a fist fight wont.

Skippy15
09-24-2010, 07:39 PM
O my bad he was just fined. Doesn't change the fact its a fight what do you expect? Everyone would grab pillows and have fun?

a fight that didnt need to happen. if Cueto doesnt starting kicking things calm down and its over. most likely, even though we dont know for a fact, it appeared that way. Cueto escalted that whole situation to a point it didnt need to go to

Mike Oxlong
09-24-2010, 07:43 PM
the difference is a pair of metal spikes could kill someone very easily if hit in the right spot. a fist fight wont.

Ok....that's just ridiculous. If I punch someone in the right spot they can die, I know this for a fact. Not because I did it but because my cousin was in a bar fight got punched the wrong way and died. Your argument is nothing, it's a fight, defend yourself by any means necessary.

Skippy15
09-24-2010, 07:46 PM
Ok....that's just ridiculous. If I punch someone in the right spot they can die, I know this for a fact. Not because I did it but because my cousin was in a bar fight got punched the wrong way and died. Your argument is nothing, it's a fight, defend yourself by any means necessary.

sorry about your cousin

im not denying that you can die from it. A family members friend of mine also died in a similar fasion. but a pair of spikes is much more likely to kill someone if hit in the wrong area than a fist.

Mike Oxlong
09-24-2010, 07:48 PM
sorry about your cousin

im not denying that you can die from it. A family members friend of mine also died in a similar fasion. but a pair of spikes is much more likely to kill someone if hit in the wrong area than a fist.

Well the bolded is true, I agree it would be easier to kill someone with spikes but a fist can also do it. Whatever it's over and if I was Cueto I would have considered doing the same thing.

CardsRule5
09-24-2010, 07:49 PM
You guys aren't going to change my mind on this. If you are in a brawl with 30 ****ing guys running around and are pinned what to do? I say you don't fight fair you fight to win. I wish he did get blinded because he put himself in that postion, he has no one to blame but himself.

Cueto was pinned up by his ****in team. How did LaRue put him in that position? O wait. He didn't. So don't go blaming the guy who had his career ended by some *** hole. True that they do fight to win, but nothing major NORMALLY comes out in a brawl. When was the last time someone's career ended because of one?

Skippy15
09-24-2010, 07:52 PM
Well the bolded is true, I agree it would be easier to kill someone with spikes but a fist can also do it. Whatever it's over and if I was Cueto I would have considered doing the same thing.

agreed

I would have probably been pushing on people if i was him, no doubt. but Kicking some body in the head is just crossing a line. if your in real danger then yes. you have to do what you have to do. but he wasnt in danger, no one was gonna hurt him. it wasnt necessary.

Mike Oxlong
09-24-2010, 07:54 PM
Cueto was pinned up by his ****in team. How did LaRue put him in that position? O wait. He didn't. So don't go blaming the guy who had his career ended by some *** hole. True that they do fight to win, but nothing major NORMALLY comes out in a brawl. When was the last time someone's career ended because of one?

Well why was he there then? It has happened before in sports.

CardsRule5
09-24-2010, 07:56 PM
Well why was he there then? It has happened before in sports.

He was there because all the players were out there in a big brawl. It just turns out he was the one that was in range of Cueto's cleats. True it does happen in sports. Do you think LaRue had issues with Cueto or something? I'm curious.

Mike Oxlong
09-24-2010, 07:58 PM
He was there because all the players were out there in a big brawl. It just turns out he was the one that was in range of Cueto's cleats. True it does happen in sports. Do you think LaRue had issues with Cueto or something? I'm curious.

Not at all, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He should have not got involved. That's how he put himself in that position. But I am done with this now.

CardsRule5
09-24-2010, 08:01 PM
Not at all, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He should have stayed in the dugout.

So he should have been a chicken and coward his way out? Everyone else was out on that field. So then there shouldn't have even been a brawl because no one should leave the dugout?

Mike Oxlong
09-24-2010, 08:13 PM
So he should have been a chicken and coward his way out? Everyone else was out on that field. So then there shouldn't have even been a brawl because no one should leave the dugout?

I wouldn't have done that but that's how he put himself in that position. If I was in a bar brawl and got popped in the back of the head with a bottle that would be my fault because I put myself there.

CardsRule5
09-24-2010, 09:38 PM
I wouldn't have done that but that's how he put himself in that position. If I was in a bar brawl and got popped in the back of the head with a bottle that would be my fault because I put myself there.

He was in that position because Cueto was all up on his *** beating him up. He wasn't trying to pick a fight. He was just the one Cueto targeted since he was the closest. LaRue isn't my favorite player, but I had respect for him. How would you feel if someone on your favorite team had to retire early? Would you say it's his fault he got injured? It wasn't Larue's fault period. I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm just strongly on this side of the debate. So violence is the answer? I could take a bat and hit Lincecum and fracture his skull and that would be his fault right?

Mike Oxlong
09-24-2010, 10:07 PM
He was in that position because Cueto was all up on his *** beating him up. He wasn't trying to pick a fight. He was just the one Cueto targeted since he was the closest. LaRue isn't my favorite player, but I had respect for him. How would you feel if someone on your favorite team had to retire early? Would you say it's his fault he got injured? It wasn't Larue's fault period. I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm just strongly on this side of the debate. So violence is the answer? I could take a bat and hit Lincecum and fracture his skull and that would be his fault right?

I'm not arguing about this anymore, we both know where each other stand.

If you just went and hit Timmy with a bat during a brawl it depends what he was doing, just standing there or coming at you?

Jeffy25
09-24-2010, 11:00 PM
You guys aren't going to change my mind on this. If you are in a brawl with 30 ****ing guys running around and are pinned what to do? I say you don't fight fair you fight to win. I wish he did get blinded because he put himself in that postion, he has no one to blame but himself.

I'll remember if we ever get into a fight to bring weapons, sand, dirty, and anything else that can give me the advantage....oh, and i'll be sure to kick you in the balls, and bring WWE and F people with me....

even though you wanted a one on one fight, **** it, i'm fighting to win.


****ing stupid, I am glad you aren't the president of a nation.

You are, my friend, an idiot.

Think LaRue thinks going out there means someone is going to start kicking with cleets? You never did see high school and college fights at parties did you?

If two guys want to fight, you let them fight, no matter how badly your friend gets his *** kicked, you let one on one be one on one...but once his friends get involved, all is fair.

Jeffy25
09-24-2010, 11:02 PM
Well what's the difference between throwing punces and kicking? The intent of both is to hurt someone.

throwing punches with brass knuckles certainly would be different from throwing punches bare knuckled.

I mean, are you kidding me? What is the difference between kicking someone with cleets and punching them with a fist?

Jeffy25
09-24-2010, 11:05 PM
Not at all, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He should have not got involved. That's how he put himself in that position. But I am done with this now.


Then all 60 players and coaches needed to not be out there, right?

Tell me, you are on the Reds or Cardinals, and all your team mates rush out there to defend each other, and you would stay seated on the bench by yourself?

Jeffy25
09-24-2010, 11:08 PM
I'm not arguing about this anymore, we both know where each other stand.

If you just went and hit Timmy with a bat during a brawl it depends what he was doing, just standing there or coming at you?

haha, okay.


Lincecum is charging at my pitcher, I pick up a bat, and whind up and hit him right in the head....he dies...but I am not at fault? Because Timmy shouldn't have gotten himself into that situation? Jesus....you can not be serious.

Cueto ran to that side of the brawl, he was pinned by his team mates, he pulled himself up onto the netting, and when he saw Carpenter and LaRue, he started kicking, unprovoked to do so, no one else was kicking, and several other players were pinned. Obviously Major League Baseball thought it was malicious intent, otherwise they would not have suspended him...he was suspended in the first place because what he did was wrong, LaRue was not suspended, why is that?

Mike Oxlong
09-24-2010, 11:15 PM
"Jeffy" you don't know me so just be quiet and if you want to I will give you my phone number. It's really annoying how you jump into everyone's conversations on here you know that. Just mind your own buisness.

Did I ever see fights in high school? Give me a break. I have charged with assualt plenty of times. Now just go bye bye unless you want to escalte this further.

Jeffy25
09-24-2010, 11:17 PM
"Jeffy" you don't know me so just be quiet and if you want to I will give you my phone number. It's really annoying how you jump into everyone's conversations on here you know that. Just mind your own buisness.

So sorry darling....would you ever please forgive me? Oh dearie!

Dude, you are so quick to judge and call out and act like Cueto is such a prince and he did nothing wrong. When he clearly did.

And aren't like half your posts on here deleted because you say stupid things like this?

Jeffy25
09-24-2010, 11:18 PM
Did I ever see fights in high school? Give me a break. I have charged with assualt plenty of times. No just go bye bye unless you want to escalte this further.

Threats, on an online forum....you are really 'cool'

Mike Oxlong
09-24-2010, 11:22 PM
Threats, on an online forum....you are really 'cool'

Wasn't a threat. You called me an idiot and I responed to you bashing me.