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Mile High Champ
09-18-2010, 12:32 PM
Well the top 10 at each position is now complete, time to end it with the final poll's. For the second year in a row, we will vote to see who are the 10 best players in the NBA are. The format is the exact same so please make your vote for who you feel are the best player in the league. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

DONT FORGET TO VOTE

NBA Player Rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

Ebbs
09-18-2010, 12:33 PM
I vote Kobe Bryant.

FakeBlackMamba
09-18-2010, 12:34 PM
I Vote D-Wade

phlp_bj
09-18-2010, 12:34 PM
bron

Kakaroach
09-18-2010, 12:38 PM
Gotta be LeBron here.

TheTakeOver24
09-18-2010, 12:38 PM
DWade

Hellcrooner
09-18-2010, 12:40 PM
Durant Again. SHoul have been first.


kobe-Durant-Lebron-Wade.

then il take my hoemr pick for 5 :p

Wade + Lebron
09-18-2010, 12:41 PM
Wade all day.

ET92898
09-18-2010, 12:42 PM
Kevin Durant

Chacarron
09-18-2010, 12:43 PM
Lebron I guess.

footballer2369
09-18-2010, 12:44 PM
What a load of crap...

Once again exposing the masses for what they are... sheep.

daleja424
09-18-2010, 12:47 PM
lol. this is truely a sign of how fickle people are...

At this point I have Kobe at 3rd or 4th.... wowers

daleja424
09-18-2010, 12:49 PM
Without factoring in all the crap this should be...

Lebron
Wade
Durant
Kobe

Lebron and Wade are one-two because they both do EVERYTHING

DeZonia
09-18-2010, 12:49 PM
Why even make a #2 poll? Lebron will win this hands down

FakeBlackMamba
09-18-2010, 12:52 PM
Without factoring in all the crap, this should be

Kobe
wade
Durant
Lebrick

The first three actually have SKILL

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 12:53 PM
Without factoring in all the crap this should be...

Lebron
Wade
Durant
Kobe

Lebron and Wade are one-two because they both do EVERYTHING

exactly the rankings I have. And if Paul comes back 100%, Kobe falls to 5

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 12:55 PM
Without factoring in all the crap, this should be

Kobe
wade
Durant
Lebrick

The first three actually have SKILL

the most dominant center in history, an ex Laker, didn't use skill. I honestly don't care how you get 29/8/7 with elite proficiency. If you do that, you are a bad azz.

Gators123
09-18-2010, 01:00 PM
I'm not biased and a fan of both Kobe and LeBron, but how the hell is Kobe the best player in the NBA right now?

Cano4prez
09-18-2010, 01:01 PM
LeBron should have been 1st so I vote him

daleja424
09-18-2010, 01:01 PM
Without factoring in all the crap, this should be

Kobe
wade
Durant
Lebrick

The first three actually have SKILL

And yet Lebron is most creative playmaker and passer of any of them. Its not like passing the ball at an ELITE level takes any real skill... just as Magic. :rolleyes:

The complete irrational disregard for how amazing and historic Lebron is as a player is pretty comical...

daleja424
09-18-2010, 01:03 PM
I'm not biased and a fan of both Kobe and LeBron, but how the hell is Kobe the best player in the NBA right now?

B/c people have decided that Lebron is not still the the 30/8/8 guy he has always been, because he went to Miami...

people love to make things personal. When you have the 3-4 largest fan bases on the site all having reason to hate wade/lebron, polls like this become skewed and pretty useless.

J_M_B
09-18-2010, 01:08 PM
This should be Kobe at this spot, but since he went #1, I voted LeBron..

1.LeBron
2.Kobe
3.Wade
4.Durant

TexasBoy4Life
09-18-2010, 01:08 PM
MY TOP TEN

1. Kobe
2. LBJ
3. D Wade
4. Kevin Durant
5. Carmelo Anthony
6. Dwight Howard
7. Chris Paul
8. Deron Williams
9. B Roy
10.Pau Gasol

Antipod
09-18-2010, 01:10 PM
too easy

daleja424
09-18-2010, 01:14 PM
Think about it...

Lakers fan base hate Lebron on principle...b/c Kobe is their guy... he is going to get the homer vote there.

Bulls fans hate the HEAT strongly + Wade and Lebron and Bosh spurned them...

Knicks fans have been holding out for Lebron for years...and he spurned them

Raptors fans lost Bosh to Miami

That represents the 4 largest NBA fan bases on this site...and each one has reason to dislike Miami or its players.

Some fans are able to set that aside...but most are not. It really is no wonder Kobe got the vote for number 1. Its just a shame thats the case.

TexasBoy4Life
09-18-2010, 01:18 PM
Think about it...

Lakers fan base hate Lebron on principle...b/c Kobe is their guy... he is going to get the homer vote there.

Bulls fans hate the HEAT strongly + Wade and Lebron and Bosh spurned them...

Knicks fans have been holding out for Lebron for years...and he spurned them

Raptors fans lost Bosh to Miami

That represents the 4 largest NBA fan bases on this site...and each one has reason to dislike Miami or its players.

Some fans are able to set that aside...but most are not. It really is no wonder Kobe got the vote for number 1. Its just a shame thats the case.


Im a life time Laker fan and i gotta tell you that im a huge fan of Labron just not when he play's the Lakers tho. lol

King Drew
09-18-2010, 01:19 PM
Lebron hands down. he shoulda been 1st.

Raidaz4Life
09-18-2010, 01:19 PM
I have never seen a couple of mods moan and groan so much in my life:p:D


As much as I love Kevin Durant (By far my favorite player in the league) I gotta give this one to Lebron until he gives me a reason not to. I'm not going to let my personal opinion of him being a prick cloud my view of him as 1b to Kobe.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 01:20 PM
Yay 2 mods bashing fan bases.

Sadds The Gr8
09-18-2010, 01:22 PM
Yay 2 mods bashing fan bases.

i don't usually like most bulls and LA fans, but we should've really made a pact with Knicks fans to NOT VOTE FOR HEAT PLAYERS. how sick would that be?

DeZonia
09-18-2010, 01:25 PM
Yay 2 mods bashing fan bases.

Seriously its quite annoying Hawkeye just shut up already, do we really have to listen to you and the Lebron fans cry about how Lebron should be #1 and we are all homers or haters for voting for Kobe.

Just vote and give your reason, #1 is done stop dwelling about the past!

thescore53
09-18-2010, 01:28 PM
Without factoring in all the crap this should be...

Lebron
Wade
Durant
Kobe

Lebron and Wade are one-two because they both do EVERYTHING

no it shouldnt. lebron kobe wade. this probably what most level headed non-homers believe. kobe fourth :facepalm:

thescore53
09-18-2010, 01:30 PM
Without factoring in all the crap, this should be

Kobe
wade
Durant
Lebrick

The first three actually have SKILL

lebron doesnt have skill ? he's probably the most skilled guy on the list, try finding someone his size move so quickly have his court vision, handle,

DeZonia
09-18-2010, 01:32 PM
lebron doesnt have skill ? he's probably the most skilled guy on the list, try finding someone his size move so quickly have his court vision, handle,

He is skilled but not the most skilled. He does have very good vision, handle and size.

But he doesn't have more "skill" then Kobe

TheTakeOver24
09-18-2010, 01:32 PM
As long as Wade/LeBron/Kobe are top 3, the poll is fine... each has an argument to be 1/2/3.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 01:34 PM
Think about it...

Lakers fan base hate Lebron on principle...b/c Kobe is their guy... he is going to get the homer vote there.

Bulls fans hate the HEAT strongly + Wade and Lebron and Bosh spurned them...

Knicks fans have been holding out for Lebron for years...and he spurned them

Raptors fans lost Bosh to Miami

That represents the 4 largest NBA fan bases on this site...and each one has reason to dislike Miami or its players.

Some fans are able to set that aside...but most are not. It really is no wonder Kobe got the vote for number 1. Its just a shame thats the case.

im pretty sure almost all raptor fans dont care anymore. most of us think bosh is a top 5 pf i think he is top 3. and most of us believe lebron is the best in the league and wade is 3rd.

Raidaz4Life
09-18-2010, 01:35 PM
As long as Wade/LeBron/Kobe are top 3, the poll is fine... each has an argument to be 1/2/3.

I actually agree with this... very good point

Chacarron
09-18-2010, 01:35 PM
I like how Mods are setting examples for every user to follow. You know what they say lead by example.

daleja424
09-18-2010, 01:36 PM
Yay 2 mods bashing fan bases.

Where exactly am I bashing fan bases. I stated nothing but FACT my friend. The top four fan bases on this site have reasons to dislike the HEAT and its players. Am I incorrect?

Avenged
09-18-2010, 01:37 PM
Not everyone believes Lebron is #1, stfu and move on.

Same with Kobe, and same with Wade. Not everyone thinks Durant deserves to be ahead of Kobe for having 1 good season..

That's part of being a fan/spectator, and these polls would be really dull if everyone agreed who the #1 player was.

daleja424
09-18-2010, 01:38 PM
I like how Mods are setting examples for every user to follow. You know what they say lead by example.

your welcome. yes, it is our job to encourage users to use rational thought when making an argument and not just flame and bait and make irrational comparisons...

I suppose Hawk and myself are doing a very nice job of that.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 01:38 PM
Where exactly am I bashing fan bases. I stated nothing but FACT my friend. The top four fan bases on this site have reasons to dislike the HEAT and its players. Am I incorrect?

the only thing i hate about miami is dan lebatard.

Raidaz4Life
09-18-2010, 01:39 PM
Where exactly am I bashing fan bases. I stated nothing but FACT my friend. The top four fan bases on this site have reasons to dislike the HEAT and its players. Am I incorrect?

you're suggesting the only reason anyone from these fan bases would vote Kobe number 1 is due to a blind hatred for the Heat and not because they honestly view Kobe as the better player.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 01:39 PM
Where exactly am I bashing fan bases. I stated nothing but FACT my friend. The top four fan bases on this site have reasons to dislike the HEAT and its players. Am I incorrect?

I'm not alone in this, the majority thinks you guys were going back and forth on fan bases, and being Mods, you guys should know better in my opinion.

Whether it's fact or not, when talking bad about a fan base, it's usually referred to as "baiting" ..

thescore53
09-18-2010, 01:40 PM
I already voted. I have absolutely no reason to post why in a debate that entered the irrational world a long time ago.

as long as the top 3 is wade, lebron, kobe. in any order then the world is right. once durant is voted 3rd then we can start pannicking

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 01:41 PM
as long as the top 3 is wade, lebron, kobe. in any order then the world is right. once durant is voted 3rd then we can start pannicking

then you won't like my vote

daleja424
09-18-2010, 01:41 PM
Not everyone believes Lebron is #1, stfu and move on.

Same with Kobe, and same with Wade. Not everyone thinks Durant deserves to be ahead of Kobe for having 1 good season..

That's part of being a fan/spectator, and these polls would be really dull if everyone agreed who the #1 player was.

clearly...since he lost. Hawk and myself were just looking for a thought out rational as to why that was the case...and to the best of my knowledge...we never got one...

it is our job to encourage people to think, express their ideas, and sometimes even challenge them.

and saying things like, "stfu and move on" really shows a lack of tact Avenged. I am looking for a rational response and that is what you come at me with?

Avenged
09-18-2010, 01:44 PM
clearly...since he lost. Hawk and myself were just looking for a thought out rational as to why that was the case...and to the best of my knowledge...we never got one...

it is our job to encourage people to think, express their ideas, and sometimes even challenge them.

and saying things like, "stfu and move on" really shows a lack of tact Avenged. I am looking for a rational response and that is what you come at me with?

Nah, I didn't quote you so I wasn't referring to you. :laugh2:

I meant in general, I'm just really bored of everyone complaining in every poll that has been done.

I voted for Lebron myself for #1, but I'm not going to bash a fan base just because he wasn't picked. It's a PSD poll, really has no credibility to it.

daleja424
09-18-2010, 01:44 PM
you're suggesting the only reason anyone from these fan bases would vote Kobe number 1 is due to a blind hatred for the Heat and not because they honestly view Kobe as the better player.

no, I'm not. There are a lot of people that believe that. There are also a number of fans from spurned teams that are now angry. The point is simple. LA fans are going to vote for Kobe, just as HEAT fans voted for Wade in the past, and Cavs fans voted for Lebron. Now though, there are a lot of people angry with Lebron and it has clouded their judgement IMO.


I'm not alone in this, the majority thinks you guys were going back and forth on fan bases, and being Mods, you guys should know better in my opinion.

Whether it's fact or not, when talking bad about a fan base, it's usually referred to as "baiting" ..
Where was I talking bad about any fanbase? All I said is that they have a reason to dislike the HEAT? How is that bashing the fanbase?

thescore53
09-18-2010, 01:48 PM
then you won't like my vote

lets cut all this stats crap. durant hasnt proved he is a top 3 player.

with stats things like granger > mello can be argued.

daleja424
09-18-2010, 01:49 PM
Its just odd to me. When Kobe had image issues, which should have been far worse from an image standpoint BTW, people didn't discredit his skill level and take the "best player" title away from him. I am trying to figure out why people want to do that with Lebron. Why do they diminish him as a player b/c he held a one hour show called the decision?

Chacarron
09-18-2010, 01:50 PM
your welcome. yes, it is our job to encourage users to use rational thought when making an argument and not just flame and bait and make irrational comparisons...

I suppose Hawk and myself are doing a very nice job of that.

Of course, that's what I meant. :D I applaud you both.

daleja424
09-18-2010, 01:51 PM
Of course, that's what I meant. :D I applaud you both.

:D I know it is not what you meant... but it IS what I am trying to do...and it is what we are suppose to do...

Chacarron
09-18-2010, 01:52 PM
:D I know it is not what you meant... but it IS what I am trying to do...and it is what we are suppose to do...

I understand, I was just trying to break some of the tension here.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 01:53 PM
Its just odd to me. When Kobe had image issues, which should have been far worse from an image standpoint BTW, people didn't discredit his skill level and take the "best player" title away from him. I am trying to figure out why people want to do that with Lebron. Why do they diminish him as a player b/c he held a one hour show called the decision?

cause LA fanbase >the whole florida fanbase.

but seriously kobe is that popular. every away laker game it doesnt matter where from okc,,memphis to even toronto, most of the fans there a laker fans. kobe is the most popular player since dear i say mj.

Hustlenomics
09-18-2010, 01:53 PM
why the f@ck is pau gasol on this list

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 01:53 PM
lets cut all this stats crap. durant hasnt proved he is a top 3 player.

with stats things like granger > mello can be argued.

I evaluate players TODAY. Not their careers. That is where I, and much of PSD differ. I have made it known for a while now that I have Durant #3 in my rankings.

But, as these polls show, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Mr Moody
09-18-2010, 01:53 PM
lol laker fans never let me down. Cant believe kobe won.

sunnydayin'zona
09-18-2010, 01:55 PM
B/c people have decided that Lebron is not still the the 30/8/8 guy he has always been, because he went to Miami...

people love to make things personal. When you have the 3-4 largest fan bases on the site all having reason to hate wade/lebron, polls like this become skewed and pretty useless.

this

Hustlenomics
09-18-2010, 01:56 PM
pau gasol is on this but no melo? lmao

Hustlenomics
09-18-2010, 01:56 PM
lol laker fans never let me down. Cant believe kobe won.

even if lebron averages a triple double kobe would win smh

EaglePride615
09-18-2010, 01:59 PM
cant wait for the 3 poll. wade should be there, he does everything. durant may be better on offense, which is hard to say after one breakout season, having another year like that is very hard to do. wade should be the 3 i think

Testaverde16
09-18-2010, 02:00 PM
going durant over wade and lebron.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 02:04 PM
Its just odd to me. When Kobe had image issues, which should have been far worse from an image standpoint BTW, people didn't discredit his skill level and take the "best player" title away from him. I am trying to figure out why people want to do that with Lebron. Why do they diminish him as a player b/c he held a one hour show called the decision?

They sure did.

Not everyone (a lot of people outside of L.A) think he was the best player ever during any season. A lot have Shaq and Duncan as the best players, not Kobe, as long as I can tell (and read) here on PSD.

Kobe is still hated for his "rape" charges and is brought up simultaneously on here.

And nobody is discrediting Lebron (aside from a few Laker fans), I'm pretty sure everyone knows his talent and how good he really is, but dislike of a player will encourage posters to not vote for him.

Maybe because I've always liked Lebron (aside from his rookie season, thought Melo was better) I share a different view from others.. For Laker fans, I don't know why they hate him so much, he has done nothing to the Lakers. We've never faced him in the playoffs, aside from a couple of regular season games. Lebron is in no way affiliated with the Lakers..

jim51990
09-18-2010, 02:04 PM
Lets be honest Kobe lovers ruined another poll the the only thing kobe is better then lebron at is fts lebron has even passed him on 3 point shotting %

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 02:09 PM
Think about it...

Lakers fan base hate Lebron on principle...b/c Kobe is their guy... he is going to get the homer vote there.

Bulls fans hate the HEAT strongly + Wade and Lebron and Bosh spurned them...

Knicks fans have been holding out for Lebron for years...and he spurned them

Raptors fans lost Bosh to Miami

That represents the 4 largest NBA fan bases on this site...and each one has reason to dislike Miami or its players.

Some fans are able to set that aside...but most are not. It really is no wonder Kobe got the vote for number 1. Its just a shame thats the case.

THIS says it all.

Anyway, the list should go like this w/o hate/jealousy:

1. LeBon
2. Wade
3. Durant
4. Kobe
5. CP3


Also, I strongly think a healthy CP3 and a great year from Melo/Dwight will kick Kobe out of top 5 this year.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-18-2010, 02:11 PM
exactly the rankings I have. And if Paul comes back 100%, Kobe falls to 5

seriously Hawkeye, you're going too far with Kobe bashing:sigh:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-18-2010, 02:16 PM
Where exactly am I bashing fan bases. I stated nothing but FACT my friend. The top four fan bases on this site have reasons to dislike the HEAT and its players. Am I incorrect?

Called Laker fans homers!


Think about it...

Lakers fan base hate Lebron on principle...b/c Kobe is their guy... he is going to get the homer vote there.


:rolleyes:

CALIABQLKRS
09-18-2010, 02:17 PM
Where exactly am I bashing fan bases. I stated nothing but FACT my friend. The top four fan bases on this site have reasons to dislike the HEAT and its players. Am I incorrect?

Yea, but the Lakers have EVERY fan base against us! Thats what happens when you are the CHAMPS! So quit trying to make us feel sorry for you with your excuses..

The better question is this.. If the Lakers played the Heat in the finals and won, who deserves to be #1?? The only way we r gnna find who really is the best player, is matching them up in the finals.. even though Kobe is getting older, he still is the man.. but the world has been waiting for this matchup for 3yrs, Kobe has done his part.. meanwhile Lebron and his talents are at home watching from the couch like the rest of us..

Whoever wins the ring this year will deserve the right to be the best.. no excuses. Dont give me crap about injuries or who has better role players, none of that BS. This is the year we get to find out. Lebron vs Kobe. Wade vs Pau. This is gnna be a great year for LA and Mia.. altho Bos has a really good shot at winning it all too.. if Mia cant get past Bos.. just give Kobe the best player title.. end of discussion..

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-18-2010, 02:19 PM
lol laker fans never let me down. Cant believe kobe won.

Why did you voted for Gasol?

LayZbone
09-18-2010, 02:26 PM
Well Wade is the #2 player in the NBA IMO. Unfortunately, #1 is still on this list, so I gotta vote Lebron here and push Wade to the #3 spot, which belongs to the guy that somehow got #1.

td0tsfinest
09-18-2010, 02:26 PM
the most dominant center in history, an ex Laker, didn't use skill. I honestly don't care how you get 29/8/7 with elite proficiency. If you do that, you are a bad azz.

There really isn't any point reasoning with this dude Hawkeye. He's got some vendetta against Lebron.

Anyways, I thought Lebron was #1 player in the league, so I'll vote for him again.

daleja424
09-18-2010, 02:30 PM
Called Laker fans homers!



:rolleyes:

...and I went on to say that HEAT fans are homers so they voted for Wade last year, and Cavs fans voted for Lebron... the word homer is not an insult unless used derogatorily. In this case it was used as a statement of fact. Fans of a team tend to have a skewed perspective when it comes to their own players...

again...where is the insult?

DeZonia
09-18-2010, 02:33 PM
Are you Lebron fans still crying that Kobe won. GET OVER IT, its OVER vote for your pick and stop with the complaints

Avenged
09-18-2010, 02:40 PM
Anyways, I voted for Lebron.

There really should'nt be any votes for no other player other than him at this point, get past the hatred you have for him guys.

millerandco
09-18-2010, 02:44 PM
durant then LeWrong

WhyDuquette
09-18-2010, 02:46 PM
Lebron, its a joke that people cant look at something like this without bias and therefore vote against him for what he did this offseason

still1ballin
09-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Without factoring in all the crap this should be...

Lebron
Wade
Durant
Kobe

Lebron and Wade are one-two because they both do EVERYTHING

but they don't win anything

NeutralFan
09-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Think about it...

Lakers fan base hate Lebron on principle...b/c Kobe is their guy... he is going to get the homer vote there.

Bulls fans hate the HEAT strongly + Wade and Lebron and Bosh spurned them...

Knicks fans have been holding out for Lebron for years...and he spurned them

Raptors fans lost Bosh to Miami

That represents the 4 largest NBA fan bases on this site...and each one has reason to dislike Miami or its players.

Some fans are able to set that aside...but most are not. It really is no wonder Kobe got the vote for number 1. Its just a shame thats the case.

Your argument is off base. Lebron lost in this same poll last year when he was still in Cleveland and didn't have the Knicks, Raptors and Bulls fans hating him. Truth is some of us value things like drive and heart in a player and factor those things into the equation where the Lebron lovers are fantasy basketball fans and only look at numbers. Bottom line is Lebron is gutless and doesn't have the will to carry a team so no way he will ever be the #1 player. When he and his new crew fail to win the finals this year maybe it will be more clear to some of you.

Sadds The Gr8
09-18-2010, 02:47 PM
but they don't win anything

lol

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
09-18-2010, 02:47 PM
not bashing anyone here but lbj should have been number one
kobe won and i am fine with it but it is just incorrect
i know this is psd pole and has no effect on real ranking
i also think wade is better player then kobe now
even yahoo experts voted kobe as #2 sg in the league behind wade
i know some people are going to say who cares people @ yahoo don't know but they got a job because what they do and you didn't
they have credibility and you don't
but as long as it is lbj-wade-kobe top 3 it is ok
durant is good but he has to show he is better then all of them again this season to prove his one elite season

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 02:49 PM
seriously Hawkeye, you're going too far with Kobe bashing:sigh:

its more about what I think of Paul when healthy. He is unreal. A PG shouldn't push the league lead for efficiency. None ever has in modern basketball. Its a total shame he has no team around him to contend with.

And I love how when I say Kobe was the best player in the world for a couple years in the mid 2000's it constantly gets overlooked. I continue to state, I don't evaluate and rate players based on career achievements and their surrounding rosters. Kobe is in a three year decline, due to whaever reasons anyone wants to come up with. LeBron, Wade, and Paul are dead center prime, and Durant is on the cusp.

Evaluate away folks

still1ballin
09-18-2010, 02:49 PM
Think about it...

Lakers fan base hate Lebron on principle...b/c Kobe is their guy... he is going to get the homer vote there.

Bulls fans hate the HEAT strongly + Wade and Lebron and Bosh spurned them...

Knicks fans have been holding out for Lebron for years...and he spurned them

Raptors fans lost Bosh to Miami

That represents the 4 largest NBA fan bases on this site...and each one has reason to dislike Miami or its players.

Some fans are able to set that aside...but most are not. It really is no wonder Kobe got the vote for number 1. Its just a shame thats the case.

Can you stop bashing different fan bases!

If anything you guys were against LeBron last year, but now since he is on your team you are defending him. Its really sad.

I don't think its only the Laker fan base hate Lebron, I think every fan base except the Heat hate Lebron so get it straight.

Seriously, its just a dumb poll that has no value. Once this is over everyone is gonna move on and forget about it.

WhyDuquette
09-18-2010, 02:50 PM
but they don't win anything

:facepalm: I guess the championship wade won does not count?

WhyDuquette
09-18-2010, 02:51 PM
its more about what I think of Paul when healthy. He is unreal. A PG shouldn't push the league lead for efficiency. None ever has in modern basketball. Its a total shame he has no team around him to contend with.

And I love how when I say Kobe was the best player in the world for a couple years in the mid 2000's it constantly gets overlooked. I continue to state, I don't evaluate and rate players based on career achievements and their surrounding rosters. Kobe is in a three year decline, due to whaever reasons anyone wants to come up with. LeBron, Wade, and Paul are dead center prime, and Durant is on the cusp.

Evaluate away folks

:clap:

Paul last season when he was healthy he was the 2nd best player in basketball in terms of efficency i think...

thescore53
09-18-2010, 02:52 PM
THIS says it all.

Anyway, the list should go like this w/o hate/jealousy:

1. LeBon
2. kobe
3. wade
4. durant
5. dwight



Also, I strongly think a healthy CP3 and a great year from Melo/Dwight will kick Kobe out of top 5 this year.

fixed.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 02:54 PM
:clap:

Paul last season when he was healthy he was the 2nd best player in basketball in terms of efficency i think...

he has been for a few years. Any PG hovering near 30 for a PER, with his assist to turnover numbers is beyond good

thescore53
09-18-2010, 02:55 PM
come on you guys cant possibly get upset about wade 3rd. he is def arguabaly 2nd but it isnt a travisty if he's ranked 3rd. lebron 3rd is a travisty.

still1ballin
09-18-2010, 02:56 PM
:facepalm: I guess the championship wade won does not count?


Wade + Lebron = 1

Kobe = 5

:D

(For fun)

Wade+Lebron = 1

Adam Morrison = 2

IversonIsKrazy
09-18-2010, 02:57 PM
Wade. LeBron is Wade's room-mate in Wade's city of Miami. No way a second option player (LeBron next year) is the 2nd best player in the league.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 02:59 PM
Without factoring in all the crap this should be...

Lebron
Wade
Durant
Kobe

Lebron and Wade are one-two because they both do EVERYTHING

and kobe cant ? kobe can handle the ball, better jumpshot then both guys, great defense, leader, he doesnt have to do anything just his aura would make a difference. hand down man down.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 02:59 PM
Wade. LeBron is Wade's room-mate in Wade's city of Miami. No way a second option player (LeBron next year) is the 2nd best player in the league.

dude, if you next seasons results/stats, please share with us!

still1ballin
09-18-2010, 03:00 PM
hawkeye15 = :dance:

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 03:01 PM
and kobe cant ? kobe can handle the ball, better jumpshot then both guys, great defense, leader, he doesnt have to do anything just his aura would make a difference. hand down man down.

but he doesn't anymore dude. He takes periods of time off, and let's his roster cover.
Easy way to put it. If LeBron or Wade doesn't have an unreal series, their teams are probably gone. That can not be said for Kobe anymore.
In a 100 game season, Bryant is not capable of carrying a team on his back like some of the youngers superstars, namely LeBron and Wade.

This is exactly why I vote for them over Kobe. If this were 2005, Kobe would be getting my vote all night long, and I would argue tooth and nail over it

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:01 PM
Wade. LeBron is Wade's room-mate in Wade's city of Miami. No way a second option player (LeBron next year) is the 2nd best player in the league.

whats wade gonna do, fight him on the court. lebron is the first option. and wade should play off the ball which he does really well.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 03:01 PM
hawkeye15 = :dance:

compared to me, Travolta sucks at dancing

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:02 PM
its quality not quantity

Cano4prez
09-18-2010, 03:05 PM
Wade + Lebron = 1

Kobe = 5

:D

(For fun)

Wade+Lebron = 1

Adam Morrison = 2

Robert Horry is the GOAT

IndiansFan337
09-18-2010, 03:06 PM
LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. Kobe Bryant is #2.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 03:06 PM
Robert Horry is the GOAT

If Bill Russell drug his tired old bones into a uniform day 1, he would be the best C in the NBA currently...

daleja424
09-18-2010, 03:07 PM
I will make one last appeal and ask anyone to try to give me a rational rebuttle...

Last year Lebron scored 29.7 ppg on 20.1 fga, while Kobe scored 27.0 ppg on21.5 fga. That is 3 more points for Lebron on 1.5 less shots per game. Lebron had a higher FG% (50.3 to 45.6), higher 3 pt% (33.3 to 32.9), higher effective FG% (54.5% to 48.8), true shooting % (60.4 to 54.5), averaged more rebounds (7.3 to 5.4), more steals (1.6 to 1.5), more blocks (1.0 to 0.3), more assists (8.6 to 5.0), a higher PER (31.1 to 21.9), had more win shares (18.5 to 9.4), a better offensive rating (121 to 109), AND a better defensive rating (102 to 104). He is literally better in EVERY possible category except FT%.

so what argument is there for Kobe really besides saying... he has five rings... which is an argument simply that he is on a good team...

Chacarron
09-18-2010, 03:07 PM
Wade + Lebron = 1

Kobe = 5

:D

(For fun)

Wade+Lebron = 1

Adam Morrison = 2

He can thank Kobe for that :laugh2:

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:08 PM
LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. Kobe Bryant is #2.

this coming from a cavs fan. it probably pained him to say it. give credit where credit is due.

still1ballin
09-18-2010, 03:08 PM
He can thank Kobe for that :laugh2:

Mbenga too!

IndiansFan337
09-18-2010, 03:08 PM
Durant Again. SHoul have been first.

Durant may eventually be the top player in the NBA, but he certainly is not yet. He hasn't even been beyond the first round, although his career has been brief thus far.

I do believe he will be a top 5 player for the next decade+, but he should NOT be number one in 2010-2011.

still1ballin
09-18-2010, 03:09 PM
compared to me, Travolta sucks at dancing

You sir, have the Saturday night fever

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:13 PM
lets just say

2a. wade
2b. kobe

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 03:14 PM
Bron and Wade are one and two either way, Kobe is third. Since Kobe has been #1 for a while and has won the last two ships its hard for people to take the reins away from him. But were actually judeging on individual performance and ability to take over a game (making you a great player), Kobe no longer does that on the same level as Lebron and Wade at this point in his career. The stats tell you this, their PER tell you this, and just watch a couple games. Kobe isnt dropping 20+ points in a quarter (utter dominance) at the same rate that Wade and Bron are at this point.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:15 PM
can we start the next one now ? and then skip the one after cause obviously would be awarded to the loser of poll 3.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 03:15 PM
can we start the next one now ? and then skip the one after cause obviously would be awarded to the loser of poll 3.

no, I want to see more bickering!

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 03:16 PM
I will make one last appeal and ask anyone to try to give me a rational rebuttle...

Last year Lebron scored 29.7 ppg on 20.1 fga, while Kobe scored 27.0 ppg on21.5 fga. That is 3 more points for Lebron on 1.5 less shots per game. Lebron had a higher FG% (50.3 to 45.6), higher 3 pt% (33.3 to 32.9), higher effective FG% (54.5% to 48.8), true shooting % (60.4 to 54.5), averaged more rebounds (7.3 to 5.4), more steals (1.6 to 1.5), more blocks (1.0 to 0.3), more assists (8.6 to 5.0), a higher PER (31.1 to 21.9), had more win shares (18.5 to 9.4), a better offensive rating (121 to 109), AND a better defensive rating (102 to 104). He is literally better in EVERY possible category except FT%.

so what argument is there for Kobe really besides saying... he has five rings... which is an argument simply that he is on a good team...


^this. daleja if you dont mind look up d wades v kobe. there very similar as well.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 03:17 PM
^this. daleja if you dont mind look up d wades v kobe. there very similar as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2010&p2=wadedw01&y2=2010

here you go. Statistically, Wade is better. Not that it matters anymore in these polls

Pierzynski4Prez
09-18-2010, 03:20 PM
From what I've read so far in #2 is Heat fans calling everybody homers, and then say they are idiots for not picking Lebron-1 and Wade-2.

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 03:24 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2010&p2=wadedw01&y2=2010

here you go. Statistically, Wade is better. Not that it matters anymore in these polls

Thanks Hawkeye. its not that it matters in the polls, it just matters to the nba fan that doesnt know much and has a slight chance of being enlightened. Dont follow, from facts you can gain answers.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:24 PM
Bron and Wade are one and two either way, Kobe is third. Since Kobe has been #1 for a while and has won the last two ships its hard for people to take the reins away from him. But were actually judeging on individual performance and ability to take over a game (making you a great player), Kobe no longer does that on the same level as Lebron and Wade at this point in his career. The stats tell you this, their PER tell you this, and just watch a couple games. Kobe isnt dropping 20+ points in a quarter (utter dominance) at the same rate that Wade and Bron are at this point.

kobe averaged 27 in the reg season and 29 in the playoffs on 45 % shooting.
i trully believe you are overrating wade. if he is better then wade he isnt by much so stop acting like wade is on different level than kobe. broken finger bad back still plays for team usa. gets injured doesent matter comes back early hits the game winner. wade's body is breaking down in a pace faster then kobe and wasnt as impressive as he use to be this past season. and remember wade is only three years younger than kobe.

WhyDuquette
09-18-2010, 03:24 PM
Wade + Lebron = 1

Kobe = 5

:D

(For fun)

Wade+Lebron = 1

Adam Morrison = 2

Was i ever at all comparing how many championships were won? Does that matter at all in this thread? I was merely responding to that Wade has never won anything.... because he has....
There is no question that kobe has had a better carrer than wade and lebron, thats no the discussion its who the best player is now.. thats lebron

i would still take kobe over wade for this year though

Bron
Durant
Kobe
Wade
Paul

NYYCowboys
09-18-2010, 03:25 PM
I hate Lebron but no way is Kobe better than him right now. Kobe is a great all time player who has slightly declined. My top 5:

1.Lebron
2.Durant
3.Kobe
4.Wade
5.Howard

Also how isn't Melo even an option in this poll??

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:26 PM
Thanks Hawkeye. its not that it matters in the polls, it just matters to the nba fan that doesnt know much and has a slight chance of being enlightened. Dont follow, from facts you can gain answers.

who cares about stats ? you can argue granger > mello with stats.

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 03:30 PM
From what I've read so far in #2 is Heat fans calling everybody homers, and then say they are idiots for not picking Lebron-1 and Wade-2.

I dont think anyone is an idiot i just disagree with their argument. Two years ago i would have said Kobe. Fact is, at this juncture Wade and Bron are the two best players in the league. And if the stats ever indicate otherwise i will deviate and give another player the benefit of the doubt.

But when players such as d wade put up jaw dropping numbers against the celts in the playoffs with a roster full of sub-par bench players as your starters you can see where you can make an argument for the guy. Not to mention the regular season. Kobes arguments come based on his teams success, not his individual performance.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 03:33 PM
who cares about stats ? you can argue granger > mello with stats.

better at what? Granger is a slightly better shooter, but that is about it. Stats tell us a lot homes. Get used to them in an argument

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:35 PM
I dont think anyone is an idiot i just disagree with their argument. Two years ago i would have said Kobe. Fact is, at this juncture Wade and Bron are the two best players in the league. And if the stats ever indicate otherwise i will deviate and give another player the benefit of the doubt.

But when players such as d wade put up jaw dropping numbers against the celts in the playoffs with a roster full of sub-par bench players as your starters you can see where you can make an argument for the guy. Not to mention the regular season. Kobes arguments come based on his teams success, not his individual performance.

he went off one game. then jacked up 11 threes another game. some of those perfromances were when he started getting hot beyond the arc when the game was already decided.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 03:37 PM
I dont think anyone is an idiot i just disagree with their argument. Two years ago i would have said Kobe. Fact is, at this juncture Wade and Bron are the two best players in the league. And if the stats ever indicate otherwise i will deviate and give another player the benefit of the doubt.

But when players such as d wade put up jaw dropping numbers against the celts in the playoffs with a roster full of sub-par bench players as your starters you can see where you can make an argument for the guy. Not to mention the regular season. Kobes arguments come based on his teams success, not his individual performance.

This isn't directed towards you specifically, but I find it amusing that a lot of posters are now saying "a couple years ago, it was Kobe".. For as long as I can remember, fan bases outside of L.A (the majority) always considered Shaq the best. Then Duncan. And then Lebron (when he took his team to the Finals)..

Never has it once been unanimously Kobe Bryant.

The biggest "excuse" was that he was a "loser", he couldn't elevate his team to get to the next level. Well, the guy has been winning... a lot... and now that "excuse" is thrown out the window. I don't think Kobe is the best player in the league (Lebron) but everyone has always discredited Kobe for practically everything he has accomplished.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:38 PM
better at what? Granger is a slightly better shooter, but that is about it. Stats tell us a lot homes. Get used to them in an argument

according to shammy guy granger > mello

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 03:38 PM
who cares about stats ? you can argue granger > mello with stats.

You can and i would argue in Granger's case. Playing in Indiana (very small market) and with a squad fill with mediocre players. Why not? he is producing isnt he?

Stats are merely a monitor of a players production, if a player is producing at a greater level than another is he not a better player? The problem is were influenced by the media and the overall publics opinion. Stats are black and white, but we sports fans always like going into the grey area where we have some unmeasurable basis for argument.

daleja424
09-18-2010, 03:39 PM
he went off one game. then jacked up 11 threes another game. some of those perfromances were when he started getting hot beyond the arc when the game was already decided.

Im sorry but did you watch the games or are you making it up as you go? Your realize that only ONE of the games wasnt close right? The HEAT had second half leads in 3-4 of the games. And Wade was shooting 57% from the field against a Celtics defense who said their main goal was to stop him from going off...

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 03:42 PM
according to shammy guy granger > mello

well, accoring to stats Melo>Granger

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 03:45 PM
This isn't directed towards you specifically, but I find it amusing that a lot of posters are now saying "a couple years ago, it was Kobe".. For as long as I can remember, fan bases outside of L.A (the majority) always considered Shaq the best. Then Duncan. And then Lebron (when he took his team to the Finals)..

Never has it once been unanimously Kobe Bryant.

The biggest "excuse" was that he was a "loser", he couldn't elevate his team to get to the next level. Well, the guy has been winning... a lot... and now that "excuse" is thrown out the window. I don't think Kobe is the best player in the league (Lebron) but everyone has always discredited Kobe for practically everything he has accomplished.

This is a perfect illustration how fans are easily swayed into believing misconceptions. Kobe Bryant was undoubtedly IMo at that time the best player, yet because not everything was breezy in L.A and he wasnt winning he was doubted and discredited. Now as a winner, although statistics would claim otherwise, he is the best.

Thus, if you win your the best. Lebron, Wade you guys know what you have to do now. :D

Avenged
09-18-2010, 03:45 PM
Pau Gasol>Melo.

:)

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:46 PM
Im sorry but did you watch the games or are you making it up as you go? Your realize that only ONE of the games wasnt close right? The HEAT had second half leads in 3-4 of the games. And Wade was shooting 57% from the field against a Celtics defense who said their main goal was to stop him from going off...

game 1 : you guys had a huge lead. everyone on the team including wade choked.

game 2: game 2 blowout. but then wade started hitting threes out his *** late in the game.

game 3: wade jacked up alot of threes got injured/exhausted late in the game sweated out 2 jerseys. pierce hits winner.

game 4: wade goes off. celtics also choked ray allen just starts missing free throws. pierce looks horrible down the stretch.

game 5: was a blowout. but wade catches fire late to get them close but celtics eventually pull away.

overall a dissapinting series for the heat. as manny believed heat had a really good chance beacause of how well they were playing near the end of the season but that was prob due to the fact there compettiion was subpar.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 03:47 PM
Pau Gasol>Melo.

:)

this I can agree with

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:51 PM
btw i trully believe raptors with a healthy squad could beat the heat in a 7 game series last year.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 03:53 PM
This is a perfect illustration how fans are easily swayed into believing misconceptions. Kobe Bryant was undoubtedly IMo at that time the best player, yet because not everything was breezy in L.A and he wasnt winning he was doubted and discredited. Now as a winner, although statistics would claim otherwise, he is the best.

Thus, if you win your the best. Lebron, Wade you guys know what you have to do now. :D

Yep, if Lebron/Wade start winning some rings, then there will really not be any excuse whatsoever as to why they aren't the best. Especially now that Kobe is really getting up there in age (and has been getting injuries quite often).

But, now that Durant is emerging, we're going to keep the cycle going.. With what is Kobe vs. Lebron, it'll become Lebron vs. Durant, and Heat fans will be placed on Laker fans shoes. :laugh2:

thescore53
09-18-2010, 03:53 PM
flame in 1,2,3,...

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 03:56 PM
kobe averaged 27 in the reg season and 29 in the playoffs on 45 % shooting.
i trully believe you are overrating wade. if he is better then wade he isnt by much so stop acting like wade is on different level than kobe. broken finger bad back still plays for team usa. gets injured doesent matter comes back early hits the game winner. wade's body is breaking down in a pace faster then kobe and wasnt as impressive as he use to be this past season. and remember wade is only three years younger than kobe.

How can i possibly be overatting a guy who put up 33.2 ppg on 56% shooting? C'mon bro! damn im not diving into an unreasonable argument.

you curious what kobe averaged against the celts? 28.6 on 40%. roster dont even compare.

kjoke
09-18-2010, 03:57 PM
kobe

and thats VERY close to wade

lebron
kobe
wade
durant

_KB24_
09-18-2010, 03:58 PM
I don't want to embroil on this nonsense bickering, but I have a simple question:

If Bron fails to win a title yet again this summer, will his so-called stock decrease? What would be the argument then? :rolleyes:

kjoke
09-18-2010, 03:59 PM
I don't want to embroil on this nonsense bickering, but I have a simple question:

If Bron fails to win a title yet again this summer, will his so-called stock decrease? What would be the argument then? :rolleyes:

.

TheTakeOver24
09-18-2010, 04:03 PM
Anyone else find it interesting that at least half the people that voted Kevin Durant are Lakers fans...
im not saying, im just saying...

thescore53
09-18-2010, 04:04 PM
How can i possibly be overatting a guy who put up 33.2 ppg on 56% shooting? C'mon bro! damn im not diving into an unreasonable argument.

you curious what kobe averaged against the celts? 28.6 on 40%. roster dont even compare.

please dont compare what a player averaged in 5 playoff games to what kobe went through. 4 series. he had his bad series and good ones.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 04:04 PM
I don't want to embroil on this nonsense bickering, but I have a simple question:

If Bron fails to win a title yet again this summer, will his so-called stock decrease? What would be the argument then? :rolleyes:

If anything, Wade/Durant will be fighting for the top spot.. Kobe is already getting up there in age, while these guys are in their prime or entering it.

I don't really understand the big fuss about Kobe being #1 or not, the Lakers are winning championships with him leading the way and is getting Finals MVPs.. I for one am with that.

_KB24_
09-18-2010, 04:05 PM
.

When :cool:

thescore53
09-18-2010, 04:07 PM
so lakers have the best sg and player in the game. and best pf. according to the polls. cant argue they are the champs.

Gators123
09-18-2010, 04:08 PM
LeBron only has 62% of the votes for the 2nd best player? WTF?

thescore53
09-18-2010, 04:08 PM
but seriously lebron should be voted here and he is. i dont know why people are still talking about a thread in the past.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 04:08 PM
close thread now.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 04:11 PM
so lakers have the best sg and player in the game. and best pf. according to the polls. cant argue they are the champs.

They have every position covered in the top 10 (other than the PG) according to the polls.

Lebron101
09-18-2010, 04:11 PM
Without factoring in all the crap, this should be

Kobe
wade
Durant
Lebrick

The first three actually have SKILL
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
No comment

DaBUU
09-18-2010, 04:11 PM
how is it even a question, its Lebron.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2010, 04:17 PM
Anyone else find it interesting that at least half the people that voted Kevin Durant are Lakers fans...
im not saying, im just saying...

what did I say in the last thread? I said it would be interesting to see how many fans will vote around LeBron until they can no longer do it with any shred of credibility. I don't mean anyone specifically, but as I have repeated numerous times. LeBron hate currently is the most amount of hate I have seen against an athlete who did nothing wrong. I have never seen this kind of uncalled for hatred towards a player since I started watching basketball, with absolutely no justification.

netsgiantsyanks
09-18-2010, 04:19 PM
lebron.

netsgiantsyanks
09-18-2010, 04:20 PM
Without factoring in all the crap, this should be

Kobe
wade
Durant
Lebrick

The first three actually have SKILL

:confused: get outta here, im still dissapointed in what lbj did, but come on, really??

alencp3
09-18-2010, 04:26 PM
Kobe Bryant

shep33
09-18-2010, 04:27 PM
Lebron or Wade is a tossup... If Durant does something special again this year, he could surpass Bron and Wade.

So far I got...

Kobe
Bron
Wade
Durant

Iggz53
09-18-2010, 04:28 PM
Well I think the #2 player is D-Wade but since Kobe was #1 for whatever reason, I'll go with LeBron again...

bbblack40
09-18-2010, 04:36 PM
Durant is not even top 5!!

1.Wade
2. Lebron
3. D. howard
4. Kobe
5.Paul
6.D-Will
7. Melo
8.Dirk
9. Gasol
10.Durant

Since when did leading your team to a 8th seed in the west constitute being a top 3 player?

Cano4prez
09-18-2010, 04:41 PM
Durant is not even top 5!!

1.Wade
2. Lebron
3. D. howard
4. Kobe
5.Paul
6.D-Will
7. Melo
8.Dirk
9. Gasol
10.Durant

Since when did leading your team to a 8th seed in the west constitute being a top 3 player?

I bolded the parts that were wrong, oh wait..

jerellh528
09-18-2010, 04:42 PM
exactly the rankings I have. And if Paul comes back 100%, Kobe falls to 5

hahah i can see kobe maybe 2 or 3, but 5?? someone has been sipping hater aid.:eyebrow:

Jewelz0376
09-18-2010, 04:42 PM
I wanna vote Lebron here a really do...but If the Heat on playing a close game I want Wade shooting over Lebron during the final mins of the 4th...so ima have to go WAde then Lebron...although it looks like Lebron is going to win this one... I'm surprised we're even voting for #2

jerellh528
09-18-2010, 04:43 PM
Kobe Bryant
hey guy, kobe won #1 already which means he not an option for #2, make a new choice.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 04:46 PM
1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. CP3
6. Dwight Howard
7. Deron Williams
8. Dirk
9. Pau Gasol
10. Melo

:D:D:D

Jewelz0376
09-18-2010, 04:46 PM
Can someone who is voting for Durant right or thinks he's better than Kobe, Lebron, or Wade....please explain to me how a player that is not one of the best defenders in the league be a top 3 player ahead of one of those 3??? Please someone explain this to me???

TheTakeOver24
09-18-2010, 04:53 PM
1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. CP3
6. Dwight Howard
7. D will
8. Dirk
9. Pau Gasol
10. Melo

:D:D:D

Top 3 we've all already basically discussed...
4. Durant
5. CP3 (Hopefully he comes back full force)
6. Dirk Nowitzki <- Very Underrated
7. Melo (DWill is good, but not on that level yet IMO)
8. Dwight Howard (love him, but he's overrated... still hasnt developed a consistent offensive game)
9. Timmy D (how can he not be on EVERYONE's top 10)
10. Pau Gasol (his game doesn't always look pretty, but he gets the job done)

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-18-2010, 05:02 PM
I will make one last appeal and ask anyone to try to give me a rational rebuttle...

Last year Lebron scored 29.7 ppg on 20.1 fga, while Kobe scored 27.0 ppg on21.5 fga. That is 3 more points for Lebron on 1.5 less shots per game. Lebron had a higher FG% (50.3 to 45.6), higher 3 pt% (33.3 to 32.9), higher effective FG% (54.5% to 48.8), true shooting % (60.4 to 54.5), averaged more rebounds (7.3 to 5.4), more steals (1.6 to 1.5), more blocks (1.0 to 0.3), more assists (8.6 to 5.0), a higher PER (31.1 to 21.9), had more win shares (18.5 to 9.4), a better offensive rating (121 to 109), AND a better defensive rating (102 to 104). He is literally better in EVERY possible category except FT%.

so what argument is there for Kobe really besides saying... he has five rings... which is an argument simply that he is on a good team...

And LeBron's team hasn't had the best record the last 2 years.
:rolleyes:

WadeKobe
09-18-2010, 05:10 PM
This is a travesty.

Dwyane Wade is hands down the #2 player in basketball. The only problem is, The #1 guy didn't get voted #1. So, I can't even answer the question.

The FACT is that the best players in the game go like this:

LeBron James
Dwyane Wade
v
Kobe Bryant
v
v
v
v
Kevin Durant

Why on earth does Durant have more votes than Wade right now?

Jonathan2323
09-18-2010, 05:12 PM
I voted Wade because LeBron is the best player in the world and should be #1. If that makes sense...lol.

Luca68
09-18-2010, 05:15 PM
Durant takes number 2

Korman12
09-18-2010, 05:18 PM
LeBron, easy. He doesn't have the ring(s), and isn't the most-skilled shooter, but he does everything else at a super-elite level. But sure, let hate cloud your judgement.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 05:22 PM
This is a travesty.

Dwyane Wade is hands down the #2 player in basketball. The only problem is, The #1 guy didn't get voted #1. So, I can't even answer the question.

The FACT is that the best players in the game go like this:

LeBron James
Dwyane Wade
v
Kobe Bryant
v
v
v
v
Kevin Durant

Why on earth does Durant have more votes than Wade right now?

wow you really think wade is way better

Avenged
09-18-2010, 05:26 PM
Top 3 we've all already basically discussed...
4. Durant
5. CP3 (Hopefully he comes back full force)
6. Dirk Nowitzki <- Very Underrated
7. Melo (DWill is good, but not on that level yet IMO)
8. Dwight Howard (love him, but he's overrated... still hasnt developed a consistent offensive game)
9. Timmy D (how can he not be on EVERYONE's top 10)
10. Pau Gasol (his game doesn't always look pretty, but he gets the job done)

I wouldn't put Melo at 7, more like 8-10.. But looking at stats (since everyone is so into them now) Gasol is better than Melo and leads the Lakers in PER and Win Shares..

Dirk is a bit too high (in my opinion) and Deron Williams should be in everyones top 10.

millerandco
09-18-2010, 05:31 PM
I will make one last appeal and ask anyone to try to give me a rational rebuttle...

Last year Lebron scored 29.7 ppg on 20.1 fga, while Kobe scored 27.0 ppg on21.5 fga. That is 3 more points for Lebron on 1.5 less shots per game. Lebron had a higher FG% (50.3 to 45.6), higher 3 pt% (33.3 to 32.9), higher effective FG% (54.5% to 48.8), true shooting % (60.4 to 54.5), averaged more rebounds (7.3 to 5.4), more steals (1.6 to 1.5), more blocks (1.0 to 0.3), more assists (8.6 to 5.0), a higher PER (31.1 to 21.9), had more win shares (18.5 to 9.4), a better offensive rating (121 to 109), AND a better defensive rating (102 to 104). He is literally better in EVERY possible category except FT%.

so what argument is there for Kobe really besides saying... he has five rings... which is an argument simply that he is on a good team...

ONE ANSWER....KOBE WON...if lewrong wins next yr ill hapily vote for him

greek miami hea
09-18-2010, 05:38 PM
simply!wade=lebron>>>>>>>durant

netsgiantsyanks
09-18-2010, 05:41 PM
Durant takes number 2

and you take a exit stage left

Law25
09-18-2010, 05:42 PM
Lebron left his team to go to Wade's that says alot to me.

_KB24_
09-18-2010, 05:45 PM
This is a travesty.

Dwyane Wade is hands down the #2 player in basketball. The only problem is, The #1 guy didn't get voted #1. So, I can't even answer the question.

The FACT is that the best players in the game go like this:

LeBron James
Dwyane Wade
v
Kobe Bryant
v
v
v
v
Kevin Durant

Why on earth does Durant have more votes than Wade right now?

Why did Wade not have a great season statistically then when he was easily on the worst team he has ever been? His stats don't jump out of the paper like Bron's did 3 years ago or Kobe in 06.

xILLN355
09-18-2010, 05:46 PM
this should be kobe

LA_Raiders
09-18-2010, 05:53 PM
superman

Utahjazzfan18
09-18-2010, 05:56 PM
What a load of crap...

Once again exposing the masses for what they are... sheep.

I couldn't agree more.

daleja424
09-18-2010, 05:59 PM
ONE ANSWER....KOBE WON...if lewrong wins next yr ill hapily vote for him

Great response. Its not like that is exactly what I said isn't a very rational explanation for a individual's performance...

Thanks for proving my point though...that there is NO rational or logical appeal for Kobe as the better player...

BALLER71
09-18-2010, 06:04 PM
All the Kobe fans are voting for Durant :laugh2:

Jonathan2323
09-18-2010, 06:09 PM
The top 3 are LeBron, Wade and Kobe, when Durant plays better D he can be in the conversation. People have different opinions on who is 1-3 and you have to respect that.

In my opinion

1)LBJ
2)Wade
3)Kobe

4)Durant

LayZbone
09-18-2010, 06:11 PM
And LeBron's team hasn't had the best record the last 2 years.
:rolleyes:

Oh right, cause that's such a testament to Lebron's supporting cast and not Lebron himself. Do you pay attention when people post his advanced stats like PER and win shares? Take Lebron and Kobe off their teams and the Lakers would sweep the Cavs harder than Orlando swept Atlanta last year.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 06:12 PM
All the Kobe fans are voting for Durant :laugh2:

all wade fans are voting for lebron whats your point :eyebrow:

BALLER71
09-18-2010, 06:14 PM
1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade

And I'm a Miami Heat fan.

I understand we are all die hard fans of our teams but people are so biased and it completely annoys me. Lakers fans can't put their bias aside for one time to truly admit that the best basketball player in the planet right now is Lebron James. And then they vote for Durant over Lebron... Damn shame.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 06:14 PM
lebron
kobe
wade
kd

why cant everyone agree to this. everyone is thinking this but their blinded by homerism or stats.

BALLER71
09-18-2010, 06:15 PM
all wade fans are voting for lebron whats your point :eyebrow:

You do not understand what I said...

thescore53
09-18-2010, 06:22 PM
new poll this time lakers and heat fans cant vote. lets see how it goes then.

LayZbone
09-18-2010, 06:22 PM
lebron
kobe
wade
kd

why cant everyone agree to this. everyone is thinking this but their blinded by homerism or stats.

Agreed. #2 and #3 should really be the only debate. A lot of experts feel that Wade has passed Kobe since his epic 08-09 season. But I think it's clear that Lebron is the best player in basketball, while Kobe/Wade round out the top 3. Durant is creeping.

Kobe-Wade 08/09 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2009&p4=wadedw01&y4=2009)

Kobe-Wade 09/10 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2010&p2=wadedw01&y2=2010)

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-18-2010, 06:23 PM
All the Kobe fans are voting for Durant :laugh2:

no

thescore53
09-18-2010, 06:28 PM
lebron impacts the game more than anyone in the league.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-18-2010, 06:29 PM
Oh right, cause that's such a testament to Lebron's supporting cast and not Lebron himself. Do you pay attention when people post his advanced stats like PER and win shares? Take Lebron and Kobe off their teams and the Lakers would sweep the Cavs harder than Orlando swept Atlanta last year.

I'm done arguing for posters who are saying that those 2 regular season wins don't mean nothing.

Are you kidding me????

The team with the best record should at least get to the finals.

And I don't care if Heat fans are continuing to say that he had a crap team, that makes no sense and everyone knows it.

DeZonia
09-18-2010, 06:29 PM
DAMN people STFU and give up already, you can cry and cry and cry and cry about how Kobe shouldn't be first but the poll isn't going to change. SO get off the subject, its over, are we going to have to hear this for 5 polls??

Its so annoying.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 06:30 PM
Eh, maybe it's because I'm kind of fed up of all the Durant hype but I'd put Chris Paul ahead of him right now if healthy..

It would look like:
Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Chris Paul
Durant

*switch 1-3 whatever order you'd like, I'm not going to get into that.

For the playoffs: (the whole 16 games)
Kobe
Wade
Lebron
Chris Paul
Durant

I put Kobe first because.. his 2 rings the past 2 years speak for itself.. Wade also has one by putting up one of the most memorable Finals performance of all-time. I put Lebron 3rd simply because he hasn't won one yet.. Pick pocket CP3 and Durant, both have minimal playoff experience.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 06:32 PM
Eh, maybe it's because I'm kind of fed up of all the Durant hype but I'd put Chris Paul ahead of him right now if healthy..

It would look like:
Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Chris Paul
Durant

*switch 1-3 whatever order you'd like, I'm not going to get into that.

For the playoffs: (the whole 16 games)
Kobe
Wade
Lebron
Chris Paul
Durant

I put Kobe first because.. his 2 rings the past 2 years speak for itself.. Wade also has one by putting up one of the most memorable Finals performance of all-time. I put Lebron 3rd simply because he hasn't won one yet.. Pick pocket CP3 and Durant, both have minimal playoff experience.

cp3 when healthy is arguably better than wade.

DeZonia
09-18-2010, 06:33 PM
Eh, maybe it's because I'm kind of fed up of all the Durant hype but I'd put Chris Paul ahead of him right now if healthy..

It would look like:
Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Chris Paul
Durant

*switch 1-3 whatever order you'd like, I'm not going to get into that.

For the playoffs: (the whole 16 games)
Kobe
Wade
Lebron
Chris Paul
Durant

I put Kobe first because.. his 2 rings the past 2 years speak for itself.. Wade also has one by putting up one of the most memorable Finals performance of all-time. I put Lebron 3rd simply because he hasn't won one yet.. Pick pocket CP3 and Durant, both have minimal playoff experience.

I would agree with you except I put Kobe first, IMO regular season is like a preseason to the playoffs, and most players see it that way to. I think Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Howard are better than Durant. But that is my opinion

thescore53
09-18-2010, 06:34 PM
Most Heat fans don't know crap, they barely watch Wade play. They didn't watch Lebron and his team do what they did, so their opinion isn't very valid. They just go off of what people like Hawkeye say.

^^^ This was stated in another thread, where Heat fans admitted they do not watch games because there is better things for them to do.

i think they meant actually going to the games when the heat are losing. ye they basicallly said there is alot of bandwaggon fans.

NeutralFan
09-18-2010, 06:35 PM
Great response. Its not like that is exactly what I said isn't a very rational explanation for a individual's performance...

Thanks for proving my point though...that there is NO rational or logical appeal for Kobe as the better player...

actually I responded with one but you refused to respond to it because I am right.

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 06:44 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2010&p2=wadedw01&y2=2010

here you go. Statistically, Wade is better. Not that it matters anymore in these polls

Wade has been the #2 player on the planet behind LeBron since 2008. Wise, unbiased, and rational people know it. On PSD, Hawkeye, Tredigs, ManRam, and Chronz were voted the most knowledgeable and rational posters and none of you are fan of Miami Heat, yet you guys agree that Wade is #2 behind LeBron. Blind posters don't count here when this thread is about the best players going into THIS (2010-11) season and they bring up # of titles. Wade is also a greater winner because he won with a declining Shaq (2006) and Lakers couldn't win with a better/prime Shaq (2004) even with the most stacked team. This shows Wade would have won as many rings if not more with this current lakers team. He ain't a chucker, he ain't never been leveled as a selfish player, he is the epitome of an unselfish superstar.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 06:45 PM
cp3 when healthy is arguably better than wade.

I think so too, definitely in my opinion.

If you compare Chris Paul's 08-09 season to Wade's this past season, Chris Paul is the better player. (I didn't compare cp3 this past season because he hardly played).

These are per game stats:


Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Paul 2008-09 23 78 78 38.5 8.1 16.1 .503 0.8 2.3 .364 5.8 6.7 .868 0.9 4.7 5.5 11.0 2.8 0.1 3.0 2.7 22.8
2 Wade 2009-10 28 77 77 36.3 9.3 19.6 .476 0.9 3.2 .300 6.9 9.1 .761 1.4 3.5 4.8 6.5 1.8 1.1 3.3 2.4 26.6


And everyones favorite "advanced":

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Paul 2008-09 23 78 3002 30.0 .599 .528 2.8 14.6 8.7 54.5 3.9 0.3 13.5 27.5 124 103 13.3 5.0 18.3 0.292
2 Wade 2009-10 28 77 2792 28.0 .562 .500 4.5 11.1 7.8 36.4 2.7 2.4 12.2 34.9 113 103 8.5 4.6 13.0 0.224

The per game benefit cp3 more, and the advanced one as well.

Again, it depends on Chris Paul's health, and he's really young as well (25 years)

This is all in a statistical standpoint though, of course.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-18-2010, 06:48 PM
Wade has been the #2 player on the planet behind LeBron since 2008. Wise, unbiased, and rational people know it. On PSD, Hawkeye, Tredigs, ManRam, and Chronz were voted the most knowledgeable and rational posters and none of you are fan of Miami Heat, yet you guys agree that Wade is #2 behind LeBron. Blind posters don't count here when this thread is about the best players going into THIS (2010-11) season and they bring up # of titles. Wade is also a greater winner because he won with a declining Shaq (2006) and Lakers couldn't win with a better/prime Shaq (2004) even with the most stacked team. This shows Wade would have won as many rings if not more with this current lakers team. He ain't a chucker, he ain't never been leveled as a selfish player, he is the epitome of an unselfish superstar.

would, should, could...Who cares?:faint:

NeutralFan
09-18-2010, 06:54 PM
Wade has been the #2 player on the planet behind LeBron since 2008. Wise, unbiased, and rational people know it. On PSD, Hawkeye, Tredigs, ManRam, and Chronz were voted the most knowledgeable and rational posters and none of you are fan of Miami Heat, yet you guys agree that Wade is #2 behind LeBron. Blind posters don't count here when this thread is about the best players going into THIS (2010-11) season and they bring up # of titles. Wade is also a greater winner because he won with a declining Shaq (2006) and Lakers couldn't win with a better/prime Shaq (2004) even with the most stacked team. This shows Wade would have won as many rings if not more with this current lakers team. He ain't a chucker, he ain't never been leveled as a selfish player, he is the epitome of an unselfish superstar.

you Heat fans are hilarious. Im amazed you guys arent arguing that Bosh is the number 3 player in the league... :D

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 06:55 PM
would, should, could...Who cares?:faint:

Great response! Thank you for that wise and legendary contribution. No rational argument here..haha
Past tense= Something that happened in the past.
Present tense= What is happening now.
Future tense = What will happen in coming days.

Gezz, some people really miss elementary days!

LayZbone
09-18-2010, 06:56 PM
I'm done arguing for posters who are saying that those 2 regular season wins don't mean nothing.

Are you kidding me????

The team with the best record should at least get to the finals.

And I don't care if Heat fans are continuing to say that he had a crap team, that makes no sense and everyone knows it.

Sure, but the playoffs and the regular season are completely different. That's where experience and clutch-factor come into play.....a lot more is at stake, and it makes guys like Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher invaluable. I mean look at the Celtics. They hardly had a better record than Miami, but when it came time to play when it matters most, they delivered. Would you have expected the Wade-led Heat to have similar success? Since you seem to think that regular season wins are directly indicative of how well a team should play in the playoffs. Great players are good enough to win a bunch of regular season games by themselves, and even steal a game or two from a series. But the cast that Lebron had around him....I'm sorry but that is not a championship-contending team. Shaq was too old, Mo Williams was a chucker and Jamison left his game back in Washington. Lebron's the superstar, so a lot falls on him. But don't act like the Cavs should've been stacking rings just because they had great regular season records. Ask yourself why they still had Mike ****ing Brown coaching that team to go up against guys like SVG, Doc Rivers, and eventually Phil Jackson. The answer is that the Cavs are a pathetic franchise. I attribute most, if not all of their success to Lebron. All those amazing regular seasons, leading the Cavs to the Finals in '07,etc.

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 06:59 PM
you Heat fans are hilarious. Im amazed you guys arent arguing that Bosh is the number 3 player in the league... :D

How did you quote someone when you failed to stay on the topic and come up with a valid argument that will prove me incorrect? Stop venting and let's not quote people if we don't have the balls to argue properly.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-18-2010, 06:59 PM
Great response! Thank you for that wise response and legendary contribution. No rational argument here..haha...
Past tense= Something that happened in the past.
Present tense= What is happening now.
Future tense = What will happen in coming days.

Gezz, some people really miss elementary days!

don't get your point:confused:

NeutralFan
09-18-2010, 07:00 PM
How did you quote someone when you fail to stay on the topic and come up with a valid argument that will prove me incorrect? Stop venting and let's not quote people if we don't have the balls to argue properly.

I made my point earlier but you conveniently avoided it because it made sense.

LayZbone
09-18-2010, 07:01 PM
you Heat fans are hilarious. Im amazed you guys arent arguing that Bosh is the number 3 player in the league... :D

Don't be ridiculous. You may have your opinion, but there is definitely enough merit for a Wade-Kobe comparison, one way or another.

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 07:02 PM
don't get your point:confused:

I am sorry, go take a look at the bold part in my first post where you quoted me, hope that helps!

NeutralFan
09-18-2010, 07:03 PM
Don't be ridiculous. You may have your opinion, but there is definitely enough merit for a Wade-Kobe comparison, one way or another.

youre right. Wade and Kobe are leaders and have the intangibles it takes to raise their game and that of their team. Lebron does not have that. If this thread was to name the best athlete in the NBA I would vote for Lebron but he has none of the intangibles needed to take the next step as a player. If it were up to me Kobe and Wade are both ahead of Lebron.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 07:05 PM
i think we reached the conclusion that we cant convince anyone why kobe is the best, or why lebron is the best and even wade being 2nd. lets just agree to dissagree. no one cant force their opinions on someone,

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 07:06 PM
I made my point earlier but you conveniently avoided it because it made sense.

When the **** did I avoid your point? I just came into this thread now after 5 hours. If you really think I have the time to go through all those 14 pages of B.S. then you are wrong my friend. I know the good posters and I try to read them even when I am skimming through. Please, don't quote me for the sake of venting. At least I don't do it because it makes people look dumb.

NeutralFan
09-18-2010, 07:08 PM
When the **** did I avoid your point? I just came into this thread now after 5 hours. If you really think I have the time to go through all those 14 pages of B.S. then you are wrong my friend. I know the good posters and I try to read them even when I am skimming through. Please, don't quote me for the sake of venting. At least I don't do it because it makes people look dumb.

the good posters? You mean fellow Heat fans?

TheTakeOver24
09-18-2010, 07:08 PM
I think so too, definitely in my opinion.

If you compare Chris Paul's 08-09 season to Wade's this past season, Chris Paul is the better player. (I didn't compare cp3 this past season because he hardly played).

These are per game stats:


Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Paul 2008-09 23 78 78 38.5 8.1 16.1 .503 0.8 2.3 .364 5.8 6.7 .868 0.9 4.7 5.5 11.0 2.8 0.1 3.0 2.7 22.8
2 Wade 2009-10 28 77 77 36.3 9.3 19.6 .476 0.9 3.2 .300 6.9 9.1 .761 1.4 3.5 4.8 6.5 1.8 1.1 3.3 2.4 26.6


And everyones favorite "advanced":

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Paul 2008-09 23 78 3002 30.0 .599 .528 2.8 14.6 8.7 54.5 3.9 0.3 13.5 27.5 124 103 13.3 5.0 18.3 0.292
2 Wade 2009-10 28 77 2792 28.0 .562 .500 4.5 11.1 7.8 36.4 2.7 2.4 12.2 34.9 113 103 8.5 4.6 13.0 0.224

The per game benefit cp3 more, and the advanced one as well.

Again, it depends on Chris Paul's health, and he's really young as well (25 years)

This is all in a statistical standpoint though, of course.

You seriously wanna go there???
By that argument CP3 DESTROYS Kobe... Look up the stats.

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Kobe Bryant 2009-10 31 73 2835 21.9 .545 .488 3.1 12.2 7.7 23.8 2.1 0.5 11.4 32.3 109 104 5.4 4.0 9.4 0.160
2 Chris Paul 2008-09 23 78 3002 30.0 .599 .528 2.8 14.6 8.7 54.5 3.9 0.3 13.5 27.5 124 103 13.3 5.0 18.3 0.292

thescore53
09-18-2010, 07:09 PM
youre right. Wade and Kobe are leaders and have the intangibles it takes to raise their game and that of their team. Lebron does not have that. If this thread was to name the best athlete in the NBA I would vote for Lebron but he has none of the intangibles needed to take the next step as a player. If it were up to me Kobe and Wade are both ahead of Lebron.

i think lebron has that. especially for his age only 25.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 07:10 PM
You seriously wanna go there???
By that argument CP3 DESTROYS Kobe... Look up the stats.

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Kobe Bryant 2009-10 31 73 2835 21.9 .545 .488 3.1 12.2 7.7 23.8 2.1 0.5 11.4 32.3 109 104 5.4 4.0 9.4 0.160
2 Chris Paul 2008-09 23 78 3002 30.0 .599 .528 2.8 14.6 8.7 54.5 3.9 0.3 13.5 27.5 124 103 13.3 5.0 18.3 0.292



when healthy cp3 is arguably better than kobe.

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 07:10 PM
please dont compare what a player averaged in 5 playoff games to what kobe went through. 4 series. he had his bad series and good ones.


It was the same opponent, of course Kobe struggled because the C's have an amazing defense. Dont give me Kobe was beat up argument, because Wade took a beating season long not having any help.

ok...so lets take a look at Wade in 06 over 23 games

49.7% shooting, 37.8% 3pt shooting, 28.4 ppg

kobe this year over 23

45.8% shooting, 37.4% 3pt shooting, 29.2 ppg


Theres a comparison of both with talent around them over 23 games in the playoffs.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-18-2010, 07:11 PM
When the **** did I avoid your point? I just came into this thread now after 5 hours. If you really think I have the time to go through all those 14 pages of B.S. then you are wrong my friend. I know the good posters and I try to read them even when I am skimming through. Please, don't quote me for the sake of venting. At least I don't do it because it makes people look dumb.

U Mad?

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 07:12 PM
the good posters? You mean fellow Heat fans?

Did you seriously read my first post where I said Hawkeye, Tredigs, Chronz, and ManRam were voted as the most knowledgeable and rational posters? I assume not and I don't hope to see you quote me unless you come up with something valid and on topic.

There are many other good posters as well...I ain't gonna name them all. I like Avenged, Bruno too who are btw lakers posters but they are not blind and they are pretty rational. Hope that helps.

LayZbone
09-18-2010, 07:14 PM
youre right. Wade and Kobe are leaders and have the intangibles it takes to raise their game and that of their team. Lebron does not have that. If this thread was to name the best athlete in the NBA I would vote for Lebron but he has none of the intangibles needed to take the next step as a player. If it were up to me Kobe and Wade are both ahead of Lebron.

There's enough evidence to suggest that Lebron is capable of leading a team past their expectations. He did it in his 4th season, when he took a starting lineup of Ilgauskas/Gooden/Hughes/Gibson to the Finals. As far as intangibles and making teammates better....Lebron's assist rates and playmaking ability are off the charts. He sets up players like he's a point guard. He's not the closer that Kobe is, but he can and has still hit some pretty big shots. Game 2 vs Orlando in 2009, that amazing game vs the Pistons back in the '07 ECF, and many more. He's had to carry his team on his back more so, and more effectively than most players could. It's a quality that both Wade and Kobe have demonstrated as well (Wade from 08-10, Kobe post-Shaq/pre-Gasol). They're all super-megastars. So those leadership and intangible qualities exist for all of them.

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 07:14 PM
You seriously wanna go there???
By that argument CP3 DESTROYS Kobe... Look up the stats.

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Kobe Bryant 2009-10 31 73 2835 21.9 .545 .488 3.1 12.2 7.7 23.8 2.1 0.5 11.4 32.3 109 104 5.4 4.0 9.4 0.160
2 Chris Paul 2008-09 23 78 3002 30.0 .599 .528 2.8 14.6 8.7 54.5 3.9 0.3 13.5 27.5 124 103 13.3 5.0 18.3 0.292

lmao!!

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 07:17 PM
U Mad?

Nah, I am sad for your lack of capacity to argue.

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 07:17 PM
lol... i cant wait for the next thread when K.D takes the lead over Wade. so i can :facepalm: psd's rational.

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 07:17 PM
nah, i am sad for your lack of capacity to argue.

lmfao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NeutralFan
09-18-2010, 07:20 PM
Did you seriously read my first post where I said Hawkeye, Tredigs, Chronz, and ManRam were voted as the most knowledgeable and rational posters? I assume not and I don't hope to see you quote me unless you come up with something valid and on topic.

There are many other good posters as well...I ain't gonna name them all. I like Avenged, Bruno too who are btw lakers posters but they are not blind and they are pretty rational. Hope that helps.

yeah you mentioned them because they agree with you that Lebron is better than Kobe. It's easy to kiss the *** of people who agree with your views.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-18-2010, 07:21 PM
Nah, I am sad for your lack of capacity to argue.

huh (http://funny.picturepie.com/images/arguing_internet_********.jpg)

thescore53
09-18-2010, 07:22 PM
lol... i cant wait for the next thread when K.D takes the lead over Wade. so i can :facepalm: psd's rational.

its probably gonna happen. you cant tell anyone who to vote for. or else theyre gonna vote for someone else in spite.

NeutralFan
09-18-2010, 07:24 PM
There's enough evidence to suggest that Lebron is capable of leading a team past their expectations. He did it in his 4th season, when he took a starting lineup of Ilgauskas/Gooden/Hughes/Gibson to the Finals. As far as intangibles and making teammates better....Lebron's assist rates and playmaking ability are off the charts. He sets up players like he's a point guard. He's not the closer that Kobe is, but he can and has still hit some pretty big shots. Game 2 vs Orlando in 2009, that amazing game vs the Pistons back in the '07 ECF, and many more. He's had to carry his team on his back more so, and more effectively than most players could. It's a quality that both Wade and Kobe have demonstrated as well (Wade from 08-10, Kobe post-Shaq/pre-Gasol). They're all super-megastars. So those leadership and intangible qualities exist for all of them.

I can't argue that until after this season but I am 99.9% sure he doesn't and will never have the "IT" factor that is needed to become elite. You mention the team that he took to the finals but it seems everyone seems to be arguing that Cleveland has always sucked and never put the team around him to succeed even though they had the best record in the league the last two years and use that as an argument as to why he hasn't won a title but they were good enough to get to a finals and the truly elite players would have found a way to get it done.

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 07:26 PM
Against Boston this year:

Wade:

33.2 ppg
6.8 apg
5.6 rpg
56.4% fg
40.5% from three

Kobe:
28.6 ppg
3.9 apg
8 rpg
40.5% fg
30.9% from three


This was when Wade had to go literally one-on-five and still managed such efficient fg%.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 07:27 PM
You seriously wanna go there???
By that argument CP3 DESTROYS Kobe... Look up the stats.

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Kobe Bryant 2009-10 31 73 2835 21.9 .545 .488 3.1 12.2 7.7 23.8 2.1 0.5 11.4 32.3 109 104 5.4 4.0 9.4 0.160
2 Chris Paul 2008-09 23 78 3002 30.0 .599 .528 2.8 14.6 8.7 54.5 3.9 0.3 13.5 27.5 124 103 13.3 5.0 18.3 0.292

I clearly said "statistical standpoint", and seeing as how EVERYONE (the majority) are going off stats, don't you think it's a fair comparison and judgement with saying CP3 is better than Wade when healthy?

The major arguments here include STATS and nothing else. Intangibles, experience, success, or whatever gets thrown out the window. (At least when it comes to Kobe, so why not everyone else as well?)

CP3 was well on his way on becoming top 3 a couple years ago (the season he was 2nd behind Kobe in MVP voting).. He goes down with injuries, and all of a sudden the guy is forgotten.

Heater4life
09-18-2010, 07:28 PM
its probably gonna happen. you cant tell anyone who to vote for. or else theyre gonna vote for someone else in spite.

Just because they vote for someone doesnt make them the right choice. Apparently thats a trend were becoming too accustomed to here in the U.S, lack of knowledge and or an attempt to be knowledgeable is what feeds that monster.

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 07:28 PM
yeah you mentioned them because they agree with you that Lebron is better than Kobe. It's easy to kiss the *** of people who agree with your views.

NO there is a reason why they are voted as the bests. They think LeBron and Wade are #1 and #2 and they can back it up.

NeutralFan
09-18-2010, 07:36 PM
NO there is a reason why they are voted as the bests. They think LeBron and Wade are #1 and #2 and they can back it up.

Yeah I know stats... To me intangibles define a player. Elite players have to have drive and a heart the size of jack dawsons life raft and Kobe and Wade have that and Lebron is a mental midget who will never have it.

alencp3
09-18-2010, 07:38 PM
Cant wait till CP3 comes back healthy
You people forgot about him and that he was arguably the best player when healthy 2008/2009

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 07:44 PM
Cant wait till CP3 comes back healthy
You people forgot about him and that he was arguably the best player when healthy 2008/2009

And was robbed his MVP award in 2007-08.

TheTakeOver24
09-18-2010, 07:46 PM
I clearly said "statistical standpoint", and seeing as how EVERYONE (the majority) are going off stats, don't you think it's a fair comparison and judgement with saying CP3 is better than Wade when healthy?

The major arguments here include STATS and nothing else. Intangibles, experience, success, or whatever gets thrown out the window. (At least when it comes to Kobe, so why not everyone else as well?)

CP3 was well on his way on becoming top 3 a couple years ago (the season he was 2nd behind Kobe in MVP voting).. He goes down with injuries, and all of a sudden the guy is forgotten.

No, its not a fair comparison when your argument for Cp3 being better than Wade is stats because with those same stats Kobe would not even be top 5.
You purposely ignored Kobe in the comparison and thought noone would call you out on it. you can't compare two players with stats and just ignore stats for other players.

TheTakeOver24
09-18-2010, 07:48 PM
And was robbed his MVP award in 2007-08.

I agree, plus Wade was robbed 08-09.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 07:50 PM
No, its not a fair comparison when your argument for Cp3 being better than Wade is stats because with those same stats Kobe would not even be top 5.
You purposely ignored Kobe in the comparison and thought noone would call you out on it. you can't compare two players with stats and just ignore stats for other players.

The last thing on my mind was "nobody is going to call me out on Kobe".. No one has mentioned Kobe, your way of defending Wade is by bringing up Kobe.

I'm comparing WADE and CHRIS PAUL only because the Raptor fan said when CP3 is healthy, he's arguably better than Wade. (In which I can agree with)
You got me mistaken, I can careless where Kobe ranks as long as the Lakers continue to win with him leading the way. There's a reason I haven't voted for Kobe in these polls.

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 07:52 PM
The last thing on my mind was "nobody is going to call me out on Kobe".. No one has mentioned Kobe, your way of defending Wade is by bringing up Kobe.

I'm comparing WADE and CHRIS PAUL only because the Raptor fan said when CP3 is healthy, he's arguably better than Wade. (In which I can agree with)
You got me mistaken, I can careless where Kobe ranks as long as the Lakers continue to win with him leading the way. There's a reason I haven't voted for Kobe in these polls.

I think he said that because you quoted him where he compared Kobe and CP3. As you agreed with that dude comparing CP3 and Wade, same can be said for Kobe and CP3, which is what he said.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 07:55 PM
I think he said that because you quoted him where he compared Kobe and CP3. As you agreed with that dude comparing CP3 and Wade, same can be said for Kobe and CP3, which is what he said.

That's because that quote was directed to me.

I strongly believe CP3 (when healthy) is one of the better players in the league (top 3 at least).. If that means Kobe moves down a spot, then so be it. (statistically speaking since like i mentioned earlier, everything else doesn't get taken into account).

TheTakeOver24
09-18-2010, 07:56 PM
The last thing on my mind was "nobody is going to call me out on Kobe".. No one has mentioned Kobe, your way of defending Wade is by bringing up Kobe.

I'm comparing WADE and CHRIS PAUL only because the Raptor fan said when CP3 is healthy, he's arguably better than Wade. (In which I can agree with)
You got me mistaken, I can careless where Kobe ranks as long as the Lakers continue to win with him leading the way. There's a reason I haven't voted for Kobe in these polls.

So, if im understanding you correctly, you also agree that CP3 is better than Kobe because those the are the stats you chose to use?
If thats correct than you are totally entitled to your opinion, I just think you would be wrong because I believe Wade AND Kobe are both better than him at the moment.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 08:00 PM
Against Boston this year:

Wade:

33.2 ppg
6.8 apg
5.6 rpg
56.4% fg
40.5% from three

Kobe:
28.6 ppg
3.9 apg
8 rpg
40.5% fg
30.9% from three


This was when Wade had to go literally one-on-five and still managed such efficient fg%.

and that was after kobe went through okc, utah, pho, to get there. wade faced them in the first round.

Avenged
09-18-2010, 08:02 PM
So, if im understanding you correctly, you also agree that CP3 is better than Kobe because those the are the stats you chose to use?
If thats correct than you are totally entitled to your opinion, I just think you would be wrong because I believe Wade AND Kobe are both better than him at the moment.

At the moment sure, Chris Paul was injured throughout last season..

But again, the majority only see stats. Heat fans especially are the ones arguing through stats only when comparing Lebron/Wade to Kobe.

Well, if you compare Chris Paul that way, he's arguably better than both. (Wade/Kobe)

There are no double standards here, if you think Wade is better than Kobe and provide per game and advanced stats as your proof, than the same can be said for Chris Paul.

Jewelz0376
09-18-2010, 08:02 PM
I think its time to close this and move on to #3

and from the looks of voting it honestly looks like Durant might beat Wade for #3 :facepalm:

thescore53
09-18-2010, 08:04 PM
I agree, plus Wade was robbed 08-09.

kobe was robbed a couple years before that. does it matter you put up big numbers on **** teams then you wont win it.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 08:06 PM
The last thing on my mind was "nobody is going to call me out on Kobe".. No one has mentioned Kobe, your way of defending Wade is by bringing up Kobe.

I'm comparing WADE and CHRIS PAUL only because the Raptor fan said when CP3 is healthy, he's arguably better than Wade. (In which I can agree with)
You got me mistaken, I can careless where Kobe ranks as long as the Lakers continue to win with him leading the way. There's a reason I haven't voted for Kobe in these polls.

i have a name :pity:

TheTakeOver24
09-18-2010, 08:06 PM
At the moment sure, Chris Paul was injured throughout last season..

But again, the majority only see stats. Heat fans especially are the ones arguing through stats only when comparing Lebron/Wade to Kobe.

Well, if you compare Chris Paul that way, he's arguably better than both. (Wade/Kobe)

There are no double standards here, if you think Wade is better than Kobe and provide per game and advanced stats as your proof, than the same can be said for Chris Paul.

I, personally, dont. I believe Wade is the #1 player in the league so I obviously don't use stats as my proof, I use what I've seen from each of them to evaluate their rank.

thescore53
09-18-2010, 08:07 PM
At the moment sure, Chris Paul was injured throughout last season..

But again, the majority only see stats. Heat fans especially are the ones arguing through stats only when comparing Lebron/Wade to Kobe.

Well, if you compare Chris Paul that way, he's arguably better than both. (Wade/Kobe)

There are no double standards here, if you think Wade is better than Kobe and provide per game and advanced stats as your proof, than the same can be said for Chris Paul.

:worthy::worthy: my god i think you have won. from an assist by me though ;)

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 08:08 PM
and that was after kobe went through okc, utah, pho, to get there. wade faced them in the first round.

Dwyane Wade:

34.7 ppg
7.8 rpg
3.8 apg
47% fg

This was Wade vs Mavs after going against Bulls, Nets, and Pistons. What's your point?

TheTakeOver24
09-18-2010, 08:10 PM
kobe was robbed a couple years before that. does it matter you put up big numbers on **** teams then you wont win it.

Its true, I just think that the best player in the league should get the award, not whoever was the best player on the best team... Finals MVP should be for that.

jackdawson
09-18-2010, 08:11 PM
kobe was robbed a couple years before that. does it matter you put up big numbers on **** teams then you wont win it.

Agree. MVP goes to the best player from the best record team. Won't be any different this year as well :D

thescore53
09-18-2010, 08:12 PM
I, personally, dont. I believe Wade is the #1 player in the league so I obviously don't use stats as my proof, I use what I've seen from each of them to evaluate their rank.

fair enough. you think wade is the best. since you said you don't distinguish that from using stats. and i commend you for that. but i have to ask what exactly can wade do that lebron cant ? from a basketball skill point. shooting is arguable . rebounding goes to lebron, play making goes to lebron, lebron is more athletic, can get to the basket easier, better scorer