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Mile High Champ
09-17-2010, 10:23 AM
Well the top 10 at each position is now complete, time to end it with the final poll's. For the second year in a row, we will vote to see who are the 10 best players in the NBA are. The format is the exact same so please make your vote for who you feel are the best player in the league. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

DONT FORGET TO VOTE

NBA Player Rankings:

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

Venomous88
09-17-2010, 10:25 AM
LeBron James

Crazy to see how far Kevin Durant came in one season. He's definitely Top 5.

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 10:27 AM
Aside from the fact Kobe has won and Lebron hasn't I dont even see an argument. And thats a stupid argument because Kobe easily had a better cast.




Kobe Bryant

27 PPG, 5 APG, 5.4 RPG, 1.5 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 3.2 TPG, 38.8 MPG, .456 FG%, .329 3P%, .811 FT%.

21.9 PER, .545 TSG%, ORTG 109, DRTG 104, 9.4 WS. . .

Kobe posted his lowest WS in 4 years, lowest offensive and defensive rating in 5 years. Lowest TS% in 7 years. Oh yea and his worst efficiency rating in 9 years.




Lebron James

29.7 PPG, 8.6 APG, 7.3 RPG, 1.6 SPG, 1 BPG, 3.4 TPG, 39 MPG, .503 FG%, .333 3PT%, .767 FT%.

PER 31.1, .604 TS%, 121 ORTG, 102 DRTG, 18.5 WS. . .

Lebron absolutely cleaned his clock statistically I dont know how anyone can argue it. I posted regular stats too cuz some people dont use the advanced ****. Lebron has never had an efficiency rating or Win share less then Kobe did this year with the exception of his rookie season.

Mile High Champ
09-17-2010, 10:29 AM
I expect this thread to get over 450 replies..

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 10:33 AM
Uggh if Laker homers give Kobe the win year I will lose my mind. Kobe isn't even clear #2 in my mind. Wade could easily have a case made.

Venomous88
09-17-2010, 10:39 AM
Uggh if Laker homers give Kobe the win year I will lose my mind. Kobe isn't even clear #2 in my mind. Wade could easily have a case made.Much respect :), especially coming from a Mavs fan.

The Miami Cheat
09-17-2010, 10:40 AM
not a lebron fan...but he's deff #1 though

mikantsass
09-17-2010, 10:41 AM
Kobe, and this is coming from a guy who hates his guts. I actually like LeBron too but Kobe is better and its not really close.

beasted86
09-17-2010, 10:43 AM
The stats don't back up Wade being better than LeBron, but screw the stats. Kobe fans use this ideology all the time against Wade or LeBron anyway.

Venomous88
09-17-2010, 10:44 AM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Kevin Durant
5. Chris Paul
6. Dwight Howard
7. Carmelo Anthony
8. Deron Williams
9.Dirk Nowitzki
10. Pau Gasol

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 10:44 AM
LeBron is the most dominant player in the NBA. He has to go #1 here. But I assume the homer AND hater votes come into play here. We will see.

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 10:45 AM
Kobe, and this is coming from a guy who hates his guts. I actually like LeBron too but Kobe is better and its not really close.

Ok where is your support I want to hear someone make a real argument for Kobe over Lebron.

xbrackattackx
09-17-2010, 10:46 AM
Well Heat fans are up early.


PS. Hellcrooner must have been in here, Gasol has one vote!

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 10:47 AM
1. Lebron
2. Kobe (I will give him the nod its close between him and Wade.)
3. Wade
4. Dirk
5. Deron
6. Dwight
7. CP3
8. Durant (hasn't been around long enough to get higher then here.)
9. Melo
10. Bosh/ Pau/ Duncan/ Roy can all have a case made.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 10:50 AM
Kobe, and this is coming from a guy who hates his guts. I actually like LeBron too but Kobe is better and its not really close.

haha, you have to be kidding me.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jamesle01&y1=2010&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010

LeBron is so superior statistically at this point, I can't even accept the stupid intangibles argument or rings argument, which is all that is left for anyone to attempt to put him above LeBron.

mikantsass
09-17-2010, 10:50 AM
Ok where is your support I want to hear someone make a real argument for Kobe over Lebron.

Better on ball defender, better help defender, better jump shooter, better midrange shooter, better ft shooter, better 3 point shooter, just as good or better at getting to the rim and into the lane, better overall scorer, more competitive, better ball handler, just as good of a passer when he wants to be, not as good of a rebounder but LeBron has alot more size and a SF should be a better rebounder than a SG anyway, not as good of a shot blocker but again a SF should block more shots than a SG....

Do you want me to continue?

Venomous88
09-17-2010, 10:51 AM
Well Heat fans are up early.


PS. Hellcrooner must have been in here, Gasol has one vote!Not everyone is on PST

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 10:53 AM
Better on ball defender, better help defender, better jump shooter, better midrange shooter, better ft shooter, better 3 point shooter, just as good or better at getting to the rim and into the lane, better overall scorer, more competitive, better ball handler, just as good of a passer when he wants to be, not as good of a rebounder but LeBron has alot more size and a SF should be a better rebounder than a SG anyway, not as good of a shot blocker but again a SF should block more shots than a SG....

Do you want me to continue?

I would love to see you prove it actually. Every bit of it. And your word or eyes don't cut it

Venomous88
09-17-2010, 10:56 AM
Better on ball defender, better help defender, better jump shooter, better midrange shooter, better ft shooter, better 3 point shooter, just as good or better at getting to the rim and into the lane, better overall scorer, more competitive, better ball handler, just as good of a passer when he wants to be, not as good of a rebounder but LeBron has alot more size and a SF should be a better rebounder than a SG anyway, not as good of a shot blocker but again a SF should block more shots than a SG....

Do you want me to continue?Yeah I would like for you to continue. What else?

Law25
09-17-2010, 10:58 AM
It's funny how many people are going to jump ship when Lebron numbers go down this year due to an better cast, or if they lose, or if they when and Dwade gets the MVP. All are completly possible.

Reyes6
09-17-2010, 10:58 AM
I say Kobe, just because LeBron's playoff play last year still lingers in my mind. LeBron is the most talented, but not the best player imo.

That can definitely change this year.

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 11:00 AM
Better on ball defender, better help defender, better jump shooter, better midrange shooter, better ft shooter, better 3 point shooter, just as good or better at getting to the rim and into the lane, better overall scorer, more competitive, better ball handler, just as good of a passer when he wants to be, not as good of a rebounder but LeBron has alot more size and a SF should be a better rebounder than a SG anyway, not as good of a shot blocker but again a SF should block more shots than a SG....

Do you want me to continue?

Well according to shooting %, Lebron was the bettter 3pt shooter. As for defender thats a matter of opinion because I would take Lebron all day everyday as a help defender. And on the ball its a debate also I would probably prefer Lebrons strength he can guard 1-4 across the floor. I wouldnn't want to see Kobe guarding many 4's. Kobe does have the best midrange shot but his basically every stat favours LBJ so let kobe shoot his .456 from the mid range and I'll let LBJ shoot his .503 from everywhere. Again getting to the rim is your opinion which at this point is wrong. Lebron is quite easily IMO since that were doing here the hardest person to stop from getting to the rim. Lebron is a significantly better passer and I think its proven by the assist numbers he puts up with a far worse supporting cast.

You offered 0 prove in your argument and just your opinion by all means go on spouting whatever you want.

mikantsass
09-17-2010, 11:01 AM
I would love to see you prove it actually. Every bit of it. And your word or eyes don't cut it

So what are we talking stats? Stats are for losers and often taken out of context...

mikantsass
09-17-2010, 11:04 AM
Well according to shooting %, Lebron was the bettter 3pt shooter. As for defender thats a matter of opinion because I would take Lebron all day everyday as a help defender. And on the ball its a debate also I would probably prefer Lebrons strength he can guard 1-4 across the floor. I wouldnn't want to see Kobe guarding many 4's. Kobe does have the best midrange shot but his basically every stat favours LBJ so let kobe shoot his .456 from the mid range and I'll let LBJ shoot his .503 from everywhere. Again getting to the rim is your opinion which at this point is wrong. Lebron is quite easily IMO since that were doing here the hardest person to stop from getting to the rim. Lebron is a significantly better passer and I think its proven by the assist numbers he puts up with a far worse supporting cast.

You offered 0 prove in your argument and just your opinion by all means go on spouting whatever you want.

Again, stats are for losers and often out of context. It looks real good on paper when the Cavs were blowing out the Nets by 35 pts in November and LeBron drops 40.... where did that get him?

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 11:04 AM
Stats can be taken out of context but when almost every stat advanced nad or regular favors a player I dont even know why were arguing.

Hellcrooner
09-17-2010, 11:06 AM
Durant for Me.


No, i was NOT the one that voted Pau....wont do so untill 5th pick or so,

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 11:06 AM
So what are we talking stats? Stats are for losers and often taken out of context...

ahhhh, ok. Nevermind, you have absolutely no argument here.

Avenged
09-17-2010, 11:06 AM
I'm assuming if Lebron wins the championship this season he won't be considered the best because he has a good cast around him? Because that's practically what a few of you are saying about Kobe. :laugh2:

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 11:08 AM
Again, stats are for losers and often out of context. It looks real good on paper when the Cavs were blowing out the Nets by 35 pts in November and LeBron drops 40.... where did that get him?


COngrats buddy the only argument Kobe fans have and always fall back on!

Success. . . mhm why has Lebron not one? Maybe its because he doesnt have another top 12 player on his team. An Elite C when healthy, an Elite 6th man, another great wing defender. I owuld even probably take Fisher over Mo Will in the playoffs.

Fisher > Mo
Kobe > Parker
Artest < Lebron
Pau > Jamison
Bynum > ShaQ
oDOM > you choose

Lakers as a whole are a better team. I cant believe that people are so blind.

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 11:09 AM
I'm assuming if Lebron wins the championship this season he won't be considered the best because he has a good cast around him? Because that's practically what a few of you are saying about Kobe. :laugh2:

Kobe would not have one the championship if he didnt have a good cast around him...

Antipod
09-17-2010, 11:11 AM
Kobe or Bron. Durant is close, but yet not the best.

Venomous88
09-17-2010, 11:12 AM
So what are we talking stats? Stats are for losers and often taken out of context...So, 17 championships is irrelevant too?

JordansBulls
09-17-2010, 11:13 AM
Kobe, Wade or Lebron all have a case.

Wade played the best against the C's though.

http://www.nba.com/heat/stats/

Avenged
09-17-2010, 11:13 AM
Kobe would not have one the championship if he didnt have a good cast around him...

At least he won one, Dirk couldn't even do that. :shrug:

KnicksorBust
09-17-2010, 11:14 AM
It really depends on how you interpret "best." I love advanced statistics and for that reason alone I'm supposed to pick LeBron. But I can't help but ask myself "If it was a must-win playoff game, who would I rather have on my team?" That answer is still Kobe over LeBron. And probably Wade over LeBron.

Avenged
09-17-2010, 11:14 AM
Anyways, I voted Lebron..

But the reason "Kobe has a good cast around him so he isn't the best player" is very, very weak. There should be no double standards here, the same should be said about Lebron if he ever wins one.

mikantsass
09-17-2010, 11:16 AM
COngrats buddy the only argument Kobe fans have and always fall back on!

Success. . . mhm why has Lebron not one? Maybe its because he doesnt have another top 12 player on his team. An Elite C when healthy, an Elite 6th man, another great wing defender. I owuld even probably take Fisher over Mo Will in the playoffs.

Fisher > Mo
Kobe > Parker
Artest < Lebron
Pau > Jamison
Bynum > ShaQ
oDOM > you choose

Lakers as a whole are a better team. I cant believe that people are so blind.


First off, I am not a Kobe fan. I actually hate the guy. But LeBron's stats are extremely padded. That is why they are out of context. You are right, his supporting cast was garbage and extremely overrated in Cleveland. This leads to more shots for Lebron. The ball wass in LeBrons hands every second of every game (except when he quit against the Celtics). Padded stats.

Venomous88
09-17-2010, 11:20 AM
Anyways, I voted Lebron..

But the reason "Kobe has a good cast around him so he isn't the best player" is very, very weak. There should be no double standards here, the same should be said about Lebron if he ever wins one.Good cast or not, Kobe was not as efficient as LeBron which was of course due to injuries and aging. Kobe is coming off a knee surgery, so he'll be less athletic as he recovers.

mikantsass
09-17-2010, 11:21 AM
So, 17 championships is irrelevant too?

How is that a stat? That is franchise history. Im not arguing the Celtics will win this year because they won multiple championships in the 60s

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 11:22 AM
First off, I am not a Kobe fan. I actually hate the guy. But LeBron's stats are extremely padded. That is why they are out of context. You are right, his supporting cast was garbage and extremely overrated in Cleveland. This leads to more shots for Lebron. The ball wass in LeBrons hands every second of every game (except when he quit against the Celtics). Padded stats.

how are his advanced stats padded? High usage doesn't guarantee you awesome efficiency numbers. hell, Iverson led in usage for a while, and was terrible efficiency wise. THAT is padded stats. leBron's are not.
Anyways, you are out of your element here. I am not going to even bother with you

Avenged
09-17-2010, 11:23 AM
Good cast or not, Kobe was not as efficient as LeBron which was of course due to injuries and aging. Kobe is coming off a knee surgery, so he'll be less athletic as he recovers.

Yep, and which is why Lebron got my vote.

Anyways, as years have gone by, Kobe hasn't relied on athleticism, he mostly picks his spots and shoots jumpers.. He really doesn't get in to the paint as much as he use to, most probably has to do with the fact that there's two 7 footers in there as well though.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 11:25 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jamesle01&y1=2010&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010

look at is again people. Its not even close, individually, at this point in time. Kobe is not the player he once was, and quite frankly, even Kobe's best statistical years don't match up with what LeBron puts up now. I am not saying Kobe wasn't the best player in the game for a few years. I am simply saying the league hasn't seen a LeBron type, individually, for a while. Remember, TEAMS win rings, not individuals when replying to this statement

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 11:25 AM
At least he won one, Dirk couldn't even do that. :shrug:

lol again Kobe's cast for any championship year is better then Dirk cast for his championship run. LOL at you trying to attack me about Dirk when I didnt mention him at all. . . Got to love those laker fans..

Niro
09-17-2010, 11:25 AM
lebron 100%

GMEN4EVER
09-17-2010, 11:26 AM
Lebron's stats are inflated to some extent. But here's the deal breaker for me with Lebron. HE QUIT IN THE PLAYOFFS!!! I'm sorry, but I can't vote a quiter as the number one player in the game. At the end of the day, the best player has to have that drive to win, and i'll take Kobe's drive to win over Lebron's anyday. Lebron dominates Kobe in stats at this point, but will never surpass his will to win. Kobe's time as the top player is just about over, but for now he's still number 1 for me.

WhyDuquette
09-17-2010, 11:27 AM
Lebron, he is straight the best in terms of what he brings to his team.. if i wanted someone to take the last shot, id take durant, if i wanted a player to lead my team in the playoffs i want kobe... but if im asked who is the best player in the game factoring in everything... it is lebron and not really that close when you look at the stats

Hellcrooner
09-17-2010, 11:27 AM
Did anyonw see the World cup?


Leave the Old man and the Coward Lion that joined dorothy and the tin man alone.

Durant IS hte best player right now

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 11:29 AM
lol again Kobe's cast for any championship year is better then Dirk cast for his championship run. LOL at you trying to attack me about Dirk when I didnt mention him at all. . . Got to love those laker fans..

what kills Dirk, is his one finals appearance, he clearly had the better team, top to bottom. Now, nobody could predict Wade putting on arguably the greatest finals performance ever, but Dallas should have won that series. They totally choked, and Dirk was their leader. Dirk gets the heat since he was their #1. That is how sports work unfortunately in the mainstream fan's mind

Avenged
09-17-2010, 11:30 AM
lol again Kobe's cast for any championship year is better then Dirk cast for his championship run. LOL at you trying to attack me about Dirk when I didnt mention him at all. . . Got to love those laker fans..

You said Kobe wouldn't have won had he not had a good cast around him, did you not? Yes.

Well, Dirk had a good cast the year they choked in the Finals..

He also had a good cast the year they choked against the Warriors..

Attacking Kobe because he won one with a good cast is kind of irrelevant when a Mavs/Dirk fan says it.

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 11:33 AM
Lol hawkeye when we get to #4 where I believe Dirk should be then I will get going on Dirk aha...

mikantsass
09-17-2010, 11:33 AM
how are his advanced stats padded? High usage doesn't guarantee you awesome efficiency numbers. hell, Iverson led in usage for a while, and was terrible efficiency wise. THAT is padded stats. leBron's are not.
Anyways, you are out of your element here. I am not going to even bother with you

Why cuz im not a stat geek? Because I can watch a player and recognize his skills? Dwight Howard's FG% is better than both Kobe and Lebron, I guess he is a better shooter than both of them.

Stats dont mean ****. I dont care if they are "advanced" or "efficiency" or whatever other garbage you look at. Watch the games and make a judgement. Who would you rather have for the postseason? Who would you rather have take a game winning shot?

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 11:38 AM
Why cuz im not a stat geek? Because I can watch a player and recognize his skills? Dwight Howard's FG% is better than both Kobe and Lebron, I guess he is a better shooter than both of them.

Stats dont mean ****. I dont care if they are "advanced" or "efficiency" or whatever other garbage you look at. Watch the games and make a judgement. Who would you rather have for the postseason? Who would you rather have take a game winning shot?

you should visit the advanced stats forum, and look around. You wouldn't look so misguided possibly on this issue. You will have to pardon me for not caring what your eyes claim to see when there is so much evidence out there pointing the other way. Later dude

mikantsass
09-17-2010, 11:43 AM
you should visit the advanced stats forum, and look around. You wouldn't look so misguided possibly on this issue. You will have to pardon me for not caring what your eyes claim to see when there is so much evidence out there pointing the other way. Later dude

Why im not a stat geek... you will have to pardon me for not caring about meaningless statistics.

I.C.U.R.N.V.S.
09-17-2010, 11:44 AM
I'm one of the BIGGEST LAKERS FANS you will find.....But at this point in there careers it LeBron...HOWEVER with that said if there is 4 seconds on the clock and the score is tied or my team is down by 2 give me Kobe...As far as Championship just b/c you have a better supporting cast dosen't me you'll win a championship...(for example watch Heat this year)

Rivera
09-17-2010, 11:51 AM
ima vote for durant

the advanced stats are real close between durant and lebron

add to the fact that i expect lebron to get less touches this year and his production to take a slight dipp mainly because i dont expect him to be the feature player night in and night out(but i do think averagin triple double is possible) and durant is going to be the #1 player on his team takin the majority of the shots and touches on his team i expect durant to have better numbers than lebron this upcomin season

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2010&p2=jamesle01&y2=2010

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 11:52 AM
Why cuz im not a stat geek? Because I can watch a player and recognize his skills? Dwight Howard's FG% is better than both Kobe and Lebron, I guess he is a better shooter than both of them.

Stats dont mean ****. I dont care if they are "advanced" or "efficiency" or whatever other garbage you look at. Watch the games and make a judgement. Who would you rather have for the postseason? Who would you rather have take a game winning shot?

Are you an NBA scout whose job it is to evaluate NBA talent? If not please stop. No one can just watch players, without looking back at stats and get avtrue evaluation.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 11:54 AM
ima vote for durant

the advanced stats are real close between durant and lebron

add to the fact that i expect lebron to get less touches this year and his production to take a slight dipp mainly because i dont expect him to be the feature player night in and night out(but i do think averagin triple double is possible) and durant is going to be the #1 player on his team takin the majority of the shots and touches on his team i expect durant to have better numbers than lebron this upcomin season

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2010&p2=jamesle01&y2=2010


scoring less points or getting less rebounds won't hurt his efficiency. If anything expect his assist percentage to clear all doubt he is the best distributing SF to ever play. He will grow as a defender, knowing he doesn't have to have a usage rate out of the building as well. I don't think his PER drops more than a point (shot creation ups this, so we can all expect a drop), and I think his defensive win shares and effectiveness go up. Close to 10 triple doubles this year for LeBron I think.
The one thing that has seperated LeBron and Durant for a long time, is LeBron's ability to run an offense, and his roaming ability on defense. We will see what Durant has up his sleeve, but LJ will be a hard man to catch individually, but any player

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 11:54 AM
ima vote for durant

the advanced stats are real close between durant and lebron

add to the fact that i expect lebron to get less touches this year and his production to take a slight dipp mainly because i dont expect him to be the feature player night in and night out(but i do think averagin triple double is possible) and durant is going to be the #1 player on his team takin the majority of the shots and touches on his team i expect durant to have better numbers than lebron this upcomin season

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?
request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2010&p2=jamesle01&y2=2010 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2010&p2=jamesle01&y2=2010)

problem with durant is he has had one season. One season of elite play does not = #1 in my eyes. Aside from that KD is not as good of a defender as Lebron or Kobe.

Da Knicks
09-17-2010, 11:55 AM
Kobe and Lebron tied at this point:facepalm: Hate him or not Lebron is the best player by miles and miles. The Lebron hate is showing very clearly.;)

WadeKobe
09-17-2010, 11:56 AM
LeBron
Wade
v
v
Kobe

There is no other way this can be stacked up. It's obvious. There is no way to argue otherwise.

D Roses Bulls
09-17-2010, 11:59 AM
where is Rose on this list????? KIDDING....... but seriously it's wade IMO

WadeKobe
09-17-2010, 11:59 AM
ima vote for durant

the advanced stats are real close between durant and lebron

add to the fact that i expect lebron to get less touches this year and his production to take a slight dipp mainly because i dont expect him to be the feature player night in and night out(but i do think averagin triple double is possible) and durant is going to be the #1 player on his team takin the majority of the shots and touches on his team i expect durant to have better numbers than lebron this upcomin season

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2010&p2=jamesle01&y2=2010

I must have forgotten that a PER separation of 5 is "close."

daleja424
09-17-2010, 12:00 PM
no matter what I say here my opinion is going to be written off as homerism... but based on the whole package I rank the guys like this:
1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Kobe
4. Durant
5. Howard

HoopsDrive
09-17-2010, 12:01 PM
Kobe at #1 is :laugh2:

LeBron easily here.

AIsixersFK
09-17-2010, 12:03 PM
It's Kobe and when i say I hate him I HATE him. Until I see some decline from this guy he holds the spot. He's winning championships has become a leader. Good passer, rebounder, shooter and is making his teammates better. LeBron is a very good passer. Maybe even underrated. A good rebounder but his perimeter shooting is not nearly as good as Kobe's. And quite frankly, I don't see LeBron making ANYONE better.

Venomous88
09-17-2010, 12:03 PM
lol @ AussieNOHfan

Rivera
09-17-2010, 12:05 PM
scoring less points or getting less rebounds won't hurt his efficiency. If anything expect his assist percentage to clear all doubt he is the best distributing SF to ever play. He will grow as a defender, knowing he doesn't have to have a usage rate out of the building as well. I don't think his PER drops more than a point (shot creation ups this, so we can all expect a drop), and I think his defensive win shares and effectiveness go up. Close to 10 triple doubles this year for LeBron I think.
The one thing that has seperated LeBron and Durant for a long time, is LeBron's ability to run an offense, and his roaming ability on defense. We will see what Durant has up his sleeve, but LJ will be a hard man to catch individually, but any player

idk abt that im not convinced his PER will drop....hes gonna have less shots and unless he improves his jumper even more he is still shaky at a shooting standpoint....yes his %s improved...but if u watched lebron play he was very streaky...i expect alot of the teams to pack the paint the best they can n make wade n lebron jump shooters and since there packin the paint its gonna mean everytime bosh touches it he is gonna have to get rid of it quick too many defenders in the lane

like i said i dont disagree with the triple doubles...honestly hawkeye i wouldnt be surprised if lebron had 20 trible doubles.....yes lebron runs an offense better but durant IS THE OFFENSE he is the main attack for his teams...he comes off screens...post up his defender..his 6 foot 10 body allows him to see the defender easily he learned this summer how to take the ball 2 the basket better and absorb the contact in his fiba play...durant is the complete package...lebron is to but he wont be scoring at the pace KD will....KD has the potential to score 35 a game in this league....it really isnt farfetched...


problem with durant is he has had one season. One season of elite play does not = #1 in my eyes. Aside from that KD is not as good of a defender as Lebron or Kobe.

abt KDs defense he has improved in that to....if u watched him in the FIBA play in the game against turkey he had one of those lebron blocks off the back board....against spain he blocked the potential game winning shot TWICE he learned how to play zone and if u play zone u have to be a great team/help defender to play the zone effectivly....under the FIBA play i saw a dramatic improvement in KDs defense....this kid is the total package and is only 21.....there is nothing he cannot do on a basketball floor

Da Knicks
09-17-2010, 12:06 PM
Lebron's stats are inflated to some extent. But here's the deal breaker for me with Lebron. HE QUIT IN THE PLAYOFFS!!! I'm sorry, but I can't vote a quiter as the number one player in the game. At the end of the day, the best player has to have that drive to win, and i'll take Kobe's drive to win over Lebron's anyday. Lebron dominates Kobe in stats at this point, but will never surpass his will to win. Kobe's time as the top player is just about over, but for now he's still number 1 for me.

I will take lebrons triple double against the c's any day over the garbage Kobe put against the suns years back. NO DOUBLE STANDARDS REMEMBER.:facepalm:

Rivera
09-17-2010, 12:07 PM
I must have forgotten that a PER separation of 5 is "close."

u have 2 realize that lebron did EVERYTHING for cleveland....he wont do EVERYTHING in miami he will do a lil of everything but not near the load he carried in cleveland....his PER will drop

wifflegod
09-17-2010, 12:08 PM
Ok where is your support I want to hear someone make a real argument for Kobe over Lebron.

Easy Kobe never quits on his team! He is way more dedicated to his sport! He is a winner and has made his team winners too. He is a miliion times better shooter which is a much better assessment of the better player. his Defense is better and Kobe is way more clutch when the game is on the line! Lebron is entertaining to watch and is great for Basketball but winning is everything! Jordan never would have been considered the best if it wasn't for the Championships, and Jordan was the best ever. When you think of the best in any sport it always comes back to Championships!

avon_barksdale
09-17-2010, 12:09 PM
Kobe all day, most unstoppable playa in da league

WadeKobe
09-17-2010, 12:12 PM
u have 2 realize that lebron did EVERYTHING for cleveland....he wont do EVERYTHING in miami he will do a lil of everything but not near the load he carried in cleveland....his PER will drop

You must be forgetting that part where he is capable of doing everything for a team. Durant is not. End of story.

mamba24
09-17-2010, 12:12 PM
I would love to see you prove it actually. Every bit of it. And your word or eyes don't cut it

your ******** lol... this thread is based on opinion.u throw out stats... stats dont mean much... lebron had the ball in his hands 70% of the game. of course his stats will be better than kobe's. its the intangibles that make someone great. Thats why Kobe is the best. He is better at the little things... After this year we will see. Lebron will have the ball less. His stats are going to drop. Kobe after this year will not be the best anymore... it'll be either lebron, wade, or durant.

Da Knicks
09-17-2010, 12:14 PM
Easy Kobe never quits on his team! He is way more dedicated to his sport! He is a winner and has made his team winners too. He is a miliion times better shooter which is a much better assessment of the better player. his Defense is better and Kobe is way more clutch when the game is on the line! Lebron is entertaining to watch and is great for Basketball but winning is everything! Jordan never would have been considered the best if it wasn't for the Championships, and Jordan was the best ever. When you think of the best in any sport it always comes back to Championships!

Again the garbage he put up against the suns years back...:facepalm:

WadeKobe
09-17-2010, 12:14 PM
Easy Kobe never quits on his team! He is way more dedicated to his sport! He is a winner and has made his team winners too. He is a miliion times better shooter which is a much better assessment of the better player. his Defense is better and Kobe is way more clutch when the game is on the line! Lebron is entertaining to watch and is great for Basketball but winning is everything! Jordan never would have been considered the best if it wasn't for the Championships, and Jordan was the best ever. When you think of the best in any sport it always comes back to Championships!

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

You mean those championships he rode the best center in the history of the game to? Oh.. yea... those...

Or Maybe the other two where he rode the best coach in the history of the game with the 2nd best power forward in the game....

Please. Come back with something new. Blah, blah, blah.

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 12:14 PM
Kobe would not have one the championship if he didnt have a good cast around him...


I guess you can say that for Jordan too.

Every elite player needs a great cast around them. No player has and will do it by themselves.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 12:15 PM
It's Kobe and when i say I hate him I HATE him. Until I see some decline from this guy he holds the spot. He's winning championships has become a leader. Good passer, rebounder, shooter and is making his teammates better. LeBron is a very good passer. Maybe even underrated. A good rebounder but his perimeter shooting is not nearly as good as Kobe's. And quite frankly, I don't see LeBron making ANYONE better.

when the Cavs win 25 games this year, will you still be saying this...

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 12:16 PM
no matter what I say here my opinion is going to be written off as homerism... but based on the whole package I rank the guys like this:
1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Kobe
4. Durant
5. Howard


:laugh2:

Wade over Kobe? Durant at #4? People are already writing off as Durant better than Wade.

mamba24
09-17-2010, 12:16 PM
First off, I am not a Kobe fan. I actually hate the guy. But LeBron's stats are extremely padded. That is why they are out of context. You are right, his supporting cast was garbage and extremely overrated in Cleveland. This leads to more shots for Lebron. The ball wass in LeBrons hands every second of every game (except when he quit against the Celtics). Padded stats.

I agree with this completely. I appreciate non-biased fans... That shows understanding of the game of basketball... In a one game winner takes all match up i would want kobe on my team before lebron

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 12:18 PM
COngrats buddy the only argument Kobe fans have and always fall back on!

Success. . . mhm why has Lebron not one? Maybe its because he doesnt have another top 12 player on his team. An Elite C when healthy, an Elite 6th man, another great wing defender. I owuld even probably take Fisher over Mo Will in the playoffs.

Fisher > Mo
Kobe > Parker
Artest < Lebron
Pau > Jamison
Bynum > ShaQ
oDOM > you choose

Lakers as a whole are a better team. I cant believe that people are so blind.

Oh wow, you actually use the > < method to determine whos better. I am sorry, the facts are there and the Cavs won back to back 60+ games and were projected to make it to the finals both years, so I don't buy that **** that Lebron had no help.

cubbybear2290
09-17-2010, 12:19 PM
As much as I hate to say it but LeBron is the best, followed by Durant and then Wade and then Kobe. Just my opinion, but that just seems to be the way it is. I feel Durant will eventually take LeBrons spot in the next couple years though.

HoopsDrive
09-17-2010, 12:19 PM
The only time I'd take Kobe over LeBron would be in the last 60 seconds of the game. The rest, give me LeBron all day long.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 12:20 PM
your ******** lol... this thread is based on opinion.u throw out stats... stats dont mean much... lebron had the ball in his hands 70% of the game. of course his stats will be better than kobe's. its the intangibles that make someone great. Thats why Kobe is the best. He is better at the little things... After this year we will see. Lebron will have the ball less. His stats are going to drop. Kobe after this year will not be the best anymore... it'll be either lebron, wade, or durant.

its interesting how those who refuse to accept stats cling to their same arguments after all this time. It doesn't matter how high LeBron's usage was (wasn't even half of your claim, but ok), he is more efficient with what he does. He is more responsible, directly, for what his team does. The numbers are right in front of you. If you choose to ignore them, that is on you.

even if you are still a caveman, and rely on per game numbers, you still lose this argument

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 12:21 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jamesle01&y1=2010&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010

look at is again people. Its not even close, individually, at this point in time. Kobe is not the player he once was, and quite frankly, even Kobe's best statistical years don't match up with what LeBron puts up now. I am not saying Kobe wasn't the best player in the game for a few years. I am simply saying the league hasn't seen a LeBron type, individually, for a while. Remember, TEAMS win rings, not individuals when replying to this statement

I am not trying to use this as an excuse, but you gotta take into account that Kobe had many injuries last season. The first quarter of last season he was playing amazing that he was leading the votes for MVP. Once he busted his finger his stats took a blow, but still played a high level.

Rivera
09-17-2010, 12:22 PM
You must be forgetting that part where he is capable of doing everything for a team. Durant is not. End of story.

umm what exactly can durant not do??? he can do everything lebron can do

lebron does some things better than durant

durant does some things better than lebron

i dont mind debating u but give me somethin to debate abt not just some random ish cause that statement u made is incorrect and incomplete

mamba24
09-17-2010, 12:22 PM
you should visit the advanced stats forum, and look around. You wouldn't look so misguided possibly on this issue. You will have to pardon me for not caring what your eyes claim to see when there is so much evidence out there pointing the other way. Later dude

you still never answered the question... who do u want taking the last shot???

Rivera
09-17-2010, 12:23 PM
you still never answered the question... who do u want taking the last shot???

this is not about who u want taking the last shot this is about who do u think is the #1 player in the NBA

u want a response for that question....go make a thread abt it....call it who do u want taking the last shot ??

NeutralFan
09-17-2010, 12:24 PM
COngrats buddy the only argument Kobe fans have and always fall back on!

Success. . . mhm why has Lebron not one? Maybe its because he doesnt have another top 12 player on his team. An Elite C when healthy, an Elite 6th man, another great wing defender. I owuld even probably take Fisher over Mo Will in the playoffs.

Fisher > Mo
Kobe > Parker
Artest < Lebron
Pau > Jamison
Bynum > ShaQ
oDOM > you choose

Lakers as a whole are a better team. I cant believe that people are so blind.

It's funny that Lebrons supporting cast the last two years were good enough to blow through the regular season and dominate the other east teams only to choke in the playoffs... The difference is lack of leadership and Lebron has none.

magic0320
09-17-2010, 12:24 PM
haha it's funny when people bring up O'neal, and Gasol as excuses.

Kobe was scoreing just as much as O'neal during title runs, and was always go to guy during close game during last two three minutes.

Gasol couldn't win anything, and wasn't even recognized as one of the best power froward. Also he only made all star once, before he came to Lakers. With Kobe's help he because one of the best PF.

so don't try to take away Kobe's credit with those points...@Wade<Kobe aka ******** Miss July of 2010

hvg
09-17-2010, 12:25 PM
I voted for Kobe. Not a Lakers or Cavs or Heat fan, I just think Kobe is "there" mentally and Lebron is not. He's more committed to winning and that comes out.

If there was an annual draft and you had to pick a player only for next year, I think Kobe would go #1. Just saying.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 12:26 PM
I am not trying to use this as an excuse, but you gotta take into account that Kobe had many injuries last season. The first quarter of last season he was playing amazing that he was leading the votes for MVP. Once he busted his finger his stats took a blow, but still played a high level.

well, he is looking at a 3 year decline, statistically. I am sure he is fine with this, since he had the support to pick and choose his takeover points, and win 2 rings. But he is not capable of carrying a team on his back for 100 games anymore. LeBron has had him statistically, for 3 years.
And injuries are part of the game. I just can't use them as an excuse. Even if Kobe comes out this season, and has the best year of his career, it won't change the fact that LeBron, and probably Wade, have been better than him for at least the past season or two, individually speaking

Rivera
09-17-2010, 12:26 PM
It's funny that Lebrons supporting cast the last two years were good enough to blow through the regular season and dominate the other east teams only to choke in the playoffs... The difference is lack of leadership and Lebron has none.

better teams in the playoffs....ur playing the same team in a 7 game series where they can gameplan and take away ur strengths

regular season different team different time no time to practice little time to game plan and go over things

playoffs is an entirely different monster than the regular season....but yes lebron has been a dissapointment so far in the playoffs

mikantsass
09-17-2010, 12:27 PM
its interesting how those who refuse to accept stats cling to their same arguments after all this time. It doesn't matter how high LeBron's usage was (wasn't even half of your claim, but ok), he is more efficient with what he does. He is more responsible, directly, for what his team does. The numbers are right in front of you. If you choose to ignore them, that is on you.

even if you are still a caveman, and rely on per game numbers, you still lose this argument


People ignore them because noone cares about a stat that takes a formula of FG% + Mins per game / number of ball hairs x weight - 3pt attempts + 44 = Lebron is god

Da Knicks
09-17-2010, 12:28 PM
you still never answered the question... who do u want taking the last shot???

Melo or Durant:D but i want Lebron handling the ball and finding the open man more than anything.

TheTakeOver24
09-17-2010, 12:30 PM
Dwyane Wade... led his team to 47 wins with a team of scrubs.
Which other player could lead a team of over-the-hill expiring contracts to that win total?
All those teams clearing cap space for 2010??? none of them had that many wins.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 12:32 PM
you still never answered the question... who do u want taking the last shot???

why does that matter? There are 48 minutes in a game. I would rather a handful of players shoot a last second shot over either of them. If you are so anxious, go look up who hits a higher percentage of their game winning attempts. I could care less

hvg
09-17-2010, 12:32 PM
My list:
1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Wade
5. Paul
6. Howard
7. Deron
8. Melo
9. Dirk
10. Duncan

Special mentions: Pierce, Pau, Bosh, Amare, Roy

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 12:33 PM
I don't know why but this thread infuriates me. I'm going crazy with the ignorance and lack of knowledge from some of the guys in here. Not one Kobe supporter has supported his argument with anything other then there opinion.

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 12:34 PM
well, he is looking at a 3 year decline, statistically. I am sure he is fine with this, since he had the support to pick and choose his takeover points, and win 2 rings. But he is not capable of carrying a team on his back for 100 games anymore. LeBron has had him statistically, for 3 years.
And injuries are part of the game. I just can't use them as an excuse. Even if Kobe comes out this season, and has the best year of his career, it won't change the fact that LeBron, and probably Wade, have been better than him for at least the past season or two, individually speaking

He doesn't have to any more. He had solid players that complement him as they just won back to back. But he is still the leader and GW shot one after another he has one ball games for his team.


Isn't this poll asking for the #1 player in the NBA "today?" So if Kobe "statistically" beats out Wade and Lebron next season, he won't still be considered better than them?

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 12:34 PM
haha it's funny when people bring up O'neal, and Gasol as excuses.

Kobe was scoreing just as much as O'neal during title runs, and was always go to guy during close game during last two three minutes.

Gasol couldn't win anything, and wasn't even recognized as one of the best power froward. Also he only made all star once, before he came to Lakers. With Kobe's help he because one of the best PF.

so don't try to take away Kobe's credit with those points...@Wade<Kobe aka ******** Miss July of 2010

yeah dude, nobody should be making excuses for Kobe being a monster part of 5 championship teams, that is stupid. But its also not the question of the thread. Who is the best player right now? Not 2002. Not 2005. Today.

Its a no brainer that any champion needs a great roster around him. That is why its called a team sport. I wouldn't bother listening to those who try to discredit Kobe for winning.

RCarlson85
09-17-2010, 12:35 PM
Unless you are a homer or hater there is no way you should vote for anyone other than Lebron, Kobe, or Wade. They are on a different level than anyone else on the list. In my opinion Durant is probably next, but he has a ways to go.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 12:36 PM
He doesn't have to any more. He had solid players that complement him as they just won back to back. But he is still the leader and GW shot one after another he has one ball games for his team.


Isn't this poll asking for the #1 player in the NBA "today?" So if Kobe "statistically" beats out Wade and Lebron next season, he won't still be considered better than them?

sure. When we do the poll next year, if Kobe outplays them both INDIVIDUALLY, my vote goes to Kobe

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 12:36 PM
Dwyane Wade... led his team to 47 wins with a team of scrubs.
Which other player could lead a team of over-the-hill expiring contracts to that win total?
All those teams clearing cap space for 2010??? none of them had that many wins.

Don't even bring that arguement amigo because #1 Wade did not have Smush Parker as his starting PG. He did not have Kwame Brown as his starting Center or Luke Walton as starting SF or scrubs like Brian Cook playing as PF. Where are those players now buddy? Not to mention, Wade was playing in a very very weak Eastern Conf. So you gonna name any player that took his team to the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs, its Kobe.

Rivera
09-17-2010, 12:36 PM
kobe-lebron-kobe-lebron-i used to pay kobe-now i play lebron

sorry guys had a jeezy moment....but its on topic cause its abt players in the thread :up:

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 12:36 PM
Lol and for those bringing up "the last shot". The last shot is no more important then any other shot. . . If you didn't make the 3 earlier you would be down 6 instead of 3 what a stupid argument.

Gators123
09-17-2010, 12:36 PM
LeBron

jkiddvc20
09-17-2010, 12:36 PM
Hes not number one but it is almost an injustice to not include Melo in the poll

Rivera
09-17-2010, 12:37 PM
ive made a better argument for durant than any1 has for kobe yet :up:

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 12:37 PM
I don't know why but this thread infuriates me. I'm going crazy with the ignorance and lack of knowledge from some of the guys in here. Not one Kobe supporter has supported his argument with anything other then there opinion.

what else do they have??? Anything they look up as a reference will point to LeBron. So they use the age old, "stats are dumb, watch the games" until stats become something that can be advantageous for them.
This is how PSD works, you know that.

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 12:37 PM
sure. When we do the poll next year, if Kobe outplays them both INDIVIDUALLY, my vote goes to Kobe


oh ok

daleja424
09-17-2010, 12:37 PM
I don't know why but this thread infuriates me. I'm going crazy with the ignorance and lack of knowledge from some of the guys in here. Not one Kobe supporter has supported his argument with anything other then there opinion.

b/c there is no rational argument for Kobe being better. It resorts to people talking about things like "he's got the it factor" or he has "the will to win"...

there is no statistical argument that can be made in favor of Kobe.

and I hear some people saying Kobe was injured... so what? Kobe was NEVER the playmaker, distributor, rebounder, etc that Lebron is, even when he was healthy and younger. In Kobe's prime he could do ONE THING at Lebron's level...and that was score.

Rivera
09-17-2010, 12:37 PM
Hes not number one but it is almost an injustice to not include Melo in the poll

espc with pau dirk as choices

AIsixersFK
09-17-2010, 12:38 PM
when the Cavs win 25 games this year, will you still be saying this...

you just proved my point. If LeBron made his teammates better they should be able to be an all around good team even though he has departed.

Rivera
09-17-2010, 12:39 PM
what else do they have??? Anything they look up as a reference will point to LeBron. So they use the age old, "stats are dumb, watch the games" until stats become something that can be advantageous for them.
This is how PSD works, you know that.

but watching the games do have something to do with it sometimes....if they bring up legit cases

sometimes stats tend to exaggerate and they dont tell the WHOLE truth

i know ur fusteration with some PSD posters but hawkeye ur better than that!! :p

magic0320
09-17-2010, 12:40 PM
Lebron can do many things better than Kobe, but when it comes to winning any game Kobe can help his team so much more than Lebron can.

just because Lebron can block, get better FG%, run faster, pass better than Kobe that doesn't mean Lebron gives much better chance winning than Kobe can.

Kobe can't get numbers like Lebron now days, but Kobe has much better qualities than Lebron to give his team chance to WIN games.

remember it's not the quantity, it's qualities it matters.

Kobe's number's are not good as Lebron, but Kobe sure has heck of drive to win, leadership, and focus that don't show in stats.

but to answer question for the forum, you just can't pick best player for any sports because you just can't swap people and there is so many what ifs.

in my opinion all you can do is pick handful of great players and say they are best of the best.

WadeKobe
09-17-2010, 12:42 PM
People ignore them because noone cares about a stat that takes a formula of FG% + Mins per game / number of ball hairs x weight - 3pt attempts + 44 = Lebron is god

But... was MJ GOAT!?!?

Yes.. .yes MJ was the GOAT...

You know who has the best PER of all time... ohhhhh... wait... MJ...

And "LeBron having the ball in his hands all the time" is a USELESS argument.

Kobe had a higher Usage percentage in one season than Wade or LeBron have EVER had (38) and he still only got a 28.0 PER.

That means Kobe had the ball in his hands MORE, DID MORE, and was not as good at it as either of them were.

No competition. This isn't even a conversation anyone should be having.

And don't bring up Shaq? You mean the second greatest finals performance of all time where he averaged 38 points per game and 18 rebounds per game (and something like 8 assists)? Don't bring that up?

Don't bring up the fact that Shaq was hands-down the best, most unstoppable force in the game? Don't bring that up?

blah, blah, blah

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 12:42 PM
b/c there is no rational argument for Kobe being better. It resorts to people talking about things like "he's got the it factor" or he has "the will to win"...

there is no statistical argument that can be made in favor of Kobe.

and I hear some people saying Kobe was injured... so what? Kobe was NEVER the playmaker, distributor, rebounder, etc that Lebron is, even when he was healthy and younger. In Kobe's prime he could do ONE THING at Lebron's level...and that was score.


Thats because they play in different type of offense! And rebounding, well hello Lebron is a lot bigger than Bryant, and Bryant has 2 7 footers so you do you expect Kobe to avg. more rebounds that Lebron :laugh2:

You know the funny thing with Heat fans is last year they would not even come close in making a case for lebron or defending him, rather hating on him. Funny how things change.:rolleyes:

Knickfansince97
09-17-2010, 12:43 PM
kobe hands down the best player in the league

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 12:44 PM
Lol at this thread hawkeye myself and few others battling the gifted NBA scouts on PSD with our dumb old statistics...

TheTakeOver24
09-17-2010, 12:44 PM
Don't even bring that arguement amigo because #1 Wade did not have Smush Parker as his starting PG. He did not have Kwame Brown as his starting Center or Luke Walton as starting SF or scrubs like Brian Cook playing as PF. Where are those players now buddy? Not to mention, Wade was playing in a very very weak Eastern Conf. So you gonna name any player that took his team to the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs, its Kobe.

You made my point :clap:
Kobe no doubt, undisputed was the BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA when he did that.
Wade did it now, so he's in the argument for best player.

magic0320
09-17-2010, 12:46 PM
@Hawkeye15

thanks for being respectful bro haha

RCarlson85
09-17-2010, 12:46 PM
:laugh2:

Wade over Kobe? Durant at #4? People are already writing off as Durant better than Wade.

Who are these people? You and who else? There's no way Durant is better than Wade. All Durant does is score. Wade has the all-around game. He's a better passer, defender, and slasher. Durant is a better rebounder, but only because he's 5 inches taller and plays forward. If Wade only got 2 assists a game like Durant does, he could average more points a game too. The only area that Durant is actually better than Wade is in 3 point shooting, that's it.

daleja424
09-17-2010, 12:47 PM
Thats because they play in different type of offense! And rebounding, well hello Lebron is a lot bigger than Bryant, and Bryant has 2 7 footers so you do you expect Kobe to avg. more rebounds that Lebron :laugh2:

You know the funny thing with Heat fans is last year they would not even come close in making a case for lebron or defending him, rather hating on him. Funny how things change.:rolleyes:

1. Yes they play different styles of offense. Lebron passes the ball...and Kobe shoots it...

2. I LOVE the size argument. Lebron is taller...of course he gets more rebounds. LMAO. Then I should say Kobe is smaller he should be better at assists. Why would tte fact that Lebron is taller and has an additional skill not count b/c Kobe is smaller? LMAO!!!

3. I guarantee you that a majority of HEAT fans would have picked Lebron over Kobe all day every day last year bud so I don't know what you are talking about...

magic0320
09-17-2010, 12:50 PM
lol be honest bro i bet more people would have picked Kobe over Lebron

daleja424
09-17-2010, 12:51 PM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfQF4PZeltgOLPpzJYt-NRQt579MsZBLH739NUg4K3D0WmWAA&t=1&usg=__po1DPem47vcoFHQ3CiMxCZZ810Y=

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNE6ZewjXxA9nISDKv0Bxn7B6vkTu44 WkzcHXhjMGdPcdIh6E&t=1&usg=__MWgj2mTtqVrMLdjPquiZr3wPrGg=

oh ya...and Lebron is a giant compared to Kobe :rolleyes:

...he must be a whole quarter inch taller...

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 12:52 PM
You made my point :clap:
Kobe no doubt, undisputed was the BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA when he did that.
Wade did it now, so he's in the argument for best player.


Okay, so now Wade has a team, so he is not gonna take his team to 47+ win into the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs so he should not even be close to #1 right?

magic0320
09-17-2010, 12:54 PM
well Lebron does play Foward lol so he's job should be more foucing rebound than Kobe as Guard.

but Lebron is better rebounder...there is no argument on that haha

daleja424
09-17-2010, 12:54 PM
lol be honest bro i bet more people would have picked Kobe over Lebron

ummm no. Im the HEAT mod and I've been on this site for over 5 years now...

HEAT fans MAY have argued that Wade should be in the discussion for best in the league... but a majority have believed for at least a year now that Lebron is the better player....

TheTakeOver24
09-17-2010, 12:54 PM
Okay, so now Wade has a team, so he is not gonna take his team to 47+ win into the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs so he should not even be close to #1 right?

We are ranking these players by what they did this past year... thats the ONLY thing we can use. It clearly says in the post NOT POTENTIALLY best player... but the actual best player. Please read.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 12:55 PM
you just proved my point. If LeBron made his teammates better they should be able to be an all around good team even though he has departed.

this makes zero sense

RCarlson85
09-17-2010, 12:55 PM
Don't even bring that arguement amigo because #1 Wade did not have Smush Parker as his starting PG. He did not have Kwame Brown as his starting Center or Luke Walton as starting SF or scrubs like Brian Cook playing as PF. Where are those players now buddy? Not to mention, Wade was playing in a very very weak Eastern Conf. So you gonna name any player that took his team to the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs, its Kobe.

Let's look at 2004-2005, the first season the Lakers didn't have Shaq. In that season Kobe had 3 of the 5 starters from the Heat team the year before in Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Brian Grant. Dwyane Wade, as a rookie, led a team with a starting lineup with Butler, Odom, and Grant to the playoffs, beat the Hornets in the 1st round of the playoffs, and took the Pacers to 6 games in the 2nd round. How did the great Kobe Bryant do with those same 3 guys around him? Let me tell you...34-48 and no playoffs. That's the best comparison right there since they had the same core of teammates in those two years.

daleja424
09-17-2010, 12:55 PM
well Lebron does play Foward lol so he's job should be more foucing rebound than Kobe as Guard.

and in that you MAY have a solid argument except for the fact that...arent guards suppose to average more assists than forwards? You are trying to put Lebron in a box here...and thats the problem. Lebron is not a SF. He is a PG, SG, SF, and PF in one body...

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 12:56 PM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfQF4PZeltgOLPpzJYt-NRQt579MsZBLH739NUg4K3D0WmWAA&t=1&usg=__po1DPem47vcoFHQ3CiMxCZZ810Y=

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNE6ZewjXxA9nISDKv0Bxn7B6vkTu44 WkzcHXhjMGdPcdIh6E&t=1&usg=__MWgj2mTtqVrMLdjPquiZr3wPrGg=

oh ya...and Lebron is a giant compared to Kobe :rolleyes:

...he must be a whole quarter inch taller...

lol, you use a picture of Lebron in his rookie year! :laugh2: Did I say Lebron was a gaint compared to Kobe? No I do not think so, I did say he is bigger than him. The guy is a freak of nature and a beast. He is built like a center with the speed of a PG

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 12:58 PM
but watching the games do have something to do with it sometimes....if they bring up legit cases

sometimes stats tend to exaggerate and they dont tell the WHOLE truth

i know ur fusteration with some PSD posters but hawkeye ur better than that!! :p

haha, no, no. You are missing what I am saying. OF COURSE you have to watch as many games as possible. This is why I spend $179 on the league pass every year, for the last 5 years. What I was saying is, when you combine watching games, with the great amount of statistical information out there for the public to see there is no argument here. Its an age old response by many here, if they are in over their heads, and have no shred of proof for their argument, to use the old, "Watching is how I evaluate", or "Stats are meaningless, I know better" type of debates.
These hold no water when debating with someone who comes to grip with both

magic0320
09-17-2010, 12:58 PM
@daleja424

well i am sure you know better than me about Heat, but it's just opinion I truely believe more people wanted Kobe more than Lebron.

I am sure more people wants to win now than be safe about future haha

but again it's my opinion so don't take it personally haha

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:00 PM
and in that you MAY have a solid argument except for the fact that...arent guards suppose to average more assists than forwards? You are trying to put Lebron in a box here...and thats the problem. Lebron is not a SF. He is a PG, SG, SF, and PF in one body...

Jordan avg. 5.3 assists over his career compared to Kobe 4.7 apg. Not a big difference, so what are you trying to say?

magic0320
09-17-2010, 01:02 PM
and in that you MAY have a solid argument except for the fact that...arent guards suppose to average more assists than forwards? You are trying to put Lebron in a box here...and thats the problem. Lebron is not a SF. He is a PG, SG, SF, and PF in one body...

haha sorry you are right I think Kobe should average more than Lebron him being guard, but Kobe focus so much on offense it probably won't happen haha

daleja424
09-17-2010, 01:03 PM
lol, you use a picture of Lebron in his rookie year! :laugh2: Did I say Lebron was a gaint compared to Kobe? No I do not think so, I did say he is bigger than him. The guy is a freak of nature and a beast. He is built like a center with the speed of a PG

And that rare athletic ability that has never really been seen before is part of the reason he is a better overall player than Kobe. I don't know why you think that we have to prorate stats here based on physical stature. Being huge and able to jump high and being BUILT is part of Lebron's game... Its silly to say things like, "Of course Lebron can do blah blah blah b/c he is bigger..." The fact that he can do stuff that Kobe CAN'T makes him a better player bud.

Kashmir13579
09-17-2010, 01:03 PM
haha, you have to be kidding me.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jamesle01&y1=2010&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010

LeBron is so superior statistically at this point, I can't even accept the stupid intangibles argument or rings argument, which is all that is left for anyone to attempt to put him above LeBron.

kobe. maybe you should take into account his 5 rings.....

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:05 PM
kobe. maybe you should take into account his 5 rings.....

wow, never heard this one before. Then you have Horry over both. Kudos

Rivera
09-17-2010, 01:05 PM
kobe. maybe you should take into account his 5 rings.....

once again this is about the best player in the NBA TODAY

not who has had a better career

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:05 PM
Let's look at 2004-2005, the first season the Lakers didn't have Shaq. In that season Kobe had 3 of the 5 starters from the Heat team the year before in Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Brian Grant. Dwyane Wade, as a rookie, led a team with a starting lineup with Butler, Odom, and Grant to the playoffs, beat the Hornets in the 1st round of the playoffs, and took the Pacers to 6 games in the 2nd round. How did the great Kobe Bryant do with those same 3 guys around him? Let me tell you...34-48 and no playoffs. That's the best comparison right there since they had the same core of teammates in those two years.


Kobe went down with an ankle injury in 04-05 and miss like 18 games towards the end of the season.

And once again, Wade is in the Eastern Conference! It is a huge factor! Do you honestly think Wade would even sniff the playoffs had he been in the West? The answer is no! You cannot compare the competition.

RCarlson85
09-17-2010, 01:06 PM
umm what exactly can durant not do??? he can do everything lebron can do

lebron does some things better than durant

durant does some things better than lebron

i dont mind debating u but give me somethin to debate abt not just some random ish cause that statement u made is incorrect and incomplete

I don't know how you even try to compare Durant to Lebron at this point or ever. Durant will never be the type of player that Lebron is. Lebron is an all around player that fills up every stat category while Durant is just a scorer. They both average 30 ppg, except that Lebron gets 8-9 assists per game while Durant gets less than 3. You don't think that if Lebron got 2 assists a game that he couldn't average more ppg than Durant? Lebron is a far better defender and passer. The only thing that Durant does better is three point shooting. This is not even a close comparison.

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:06 PM
once again this is about the best player in the NBA TODAY

not who has had a better career


Well Kobe does play for the Lakers and they are currently NBA champions

magic0320
09-17-2010, 01:06 PM
i believe you just can't pick one best player from any sports.

i of course gonna go for Kobe as being Lakers fan, but it's just so hard to pick one player in NBA. there are so many what ifs.

Rivera
09-17-2010, 01:07 PM
ima peep in this thread back and forth cause this thread is entertainin and im a legit part of it :D

but my kennedy fried chicken just got here so ima b killin this food

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:07 PM
Over/Under

Had LeBron stayed in Cleveland or went to any another team other than the Heat, do you think the Heat fans would make a case for him?

drama1386
09-17-2010, 01:09 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jamesle01&y1=2010&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010

look at is again people. Its not even close, individually, at this point in time. Kobe is not the player he once was, and quite frankly, even Kobe's best statistical years don't match up with what LeBron puts up now. I am not saying Kobe wasn't the best player in the game for a few years. I am simply saying the league hasn't seen a LeBron type, individually, for a while. Remember, TEAMS win rings, not individuals when replying to this statement

you sir are probably my favorite poster on this site. you speak the truth.

anyways, as much as I love kobe, I've got to go with lebron. like you said, the league hasn't seen a player like lebron in a long time.

TheTakeOver24
09-17-2010, 01:10 PM
Kobe went down with an ankle injury in 04-05 and miss like 18 games towards the end of the season.

And once again, Wade is in the Eastern Conference! It is a huge factor! Do you honestly think Wade would even sniff the playoffs had he been in the West? The answer is no! You cannot compare the competition.

last 20 games of the season I believe Kobe played and they went 2-18 or something...

Kashmir13579
09-17-2010, 01:11 PM
wow, never heard this one before. Then you have Horry over both. Kudos

yea cause robert horry was more to the lakers than what derick fisher is now:facepalm: kudos

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:11 PM
And that rare athletic ability that has never really been seen before is part of the reason he is a better overall player than Kobe. I don't know why you think that we have to prorate stats here based on physical stature. Being huge and able to jump high and being BUILT is part of Lebron's game... Its silly to say things like, "Of course Lebron can do blah blah blah b/c he is bigger..." The fact that he can do stuff that Kobe CAN'T makes him a better player bud.

Okay, but you knocking off Kobe because Lebron avg. more rebounds. Then I guess when its all said and done Lebron will be better then Jordan.

Klivlend
09-17-2010, 01:12 PM
It's Kobe and when i say I hate him I HATE him. Until I see some decline from this guy he holds the spot. He's winning championships has become a leader. Good passer, rebounder, shooter and is making his teammates better. LeBron is a very good passer. Maybe even underrated. A good rebounder but his perimeter shooting is not nearly as good as Kobe's. And quite frankly, I don't see LeBron making ANYONE better.

Have you ever watched him play? Doesn't sound like it.


I don't know why but this thread infuriates me. I'm going crazy with the ignorance and lack of knowledge from some of the guys in here. Not one Kobe supporter has supported his argument with anything other then there opinion.

It is very difficult for me to read as well. You're not alone.


what else do they have??? Anything they look up as a reference will point to LeBron. So they use the age old, "stats are dumb, watch the games" until stats become something that can be advantageous for them.
This is how PSD works, you know that.

haha, I know right. I am so sick of hearing "Kobe could be the best PG in the league, IF HE WANTED TO." OR, "Kobe could be a better passer, IF HE WANTED TOO." You know what, I could be a gay porn star, IF I WANTED TO, but I don't, so that point is moot. Just shut up with that bull mularkey already. Kobe is not #1 anymore, it is so obvious. Is he still great? Yes. Is he the greatest, obviously not. Just accept it. I swear, the only fans more stubborn than Lakers fans may be Jets fans.


b/c there is no rational argument for Kobe being better. It resorts to people talking about things like "he's got the it factor" or he has "the will to win"...

there is no statistical argument that can be made in favor of Kobe.

and I hear some people saying Kobe was injured... so what? Kobe was NEVER the playmaker, distributor, rebounder, etc that Lebron is, even when he was healthy and younger. In Kobe's prime he could do ONE THING at Lebron's level...and that was score.

So sick of that ish, thank you.


you just proved my point. If LeBron made his teammates better they should be able to be an all around good team even though he has departed.

Dude, wtf are you talking about? If LBJ makes his teammates better, how will they still be better when he is not there? Did you think about this post before you made it?


Lebron can do many things better than Kobe, but when it comes to winning any game Kobe can help his team so much more than Lebron can.

just because Lebron can block, get better FG%, run faster, pass better than Kobe that doesn't mean Lebron gives much better chance winning than Kobe can.

Kobe can't get numbers like Lebron now days, but Kobe has much better qualities than Lebron to give his team chance to WIN games.

remember it's not the quantity, it's qualities it matters.

Kobe's number's are not good as Lebron, but Kobe sure has heck of drive to win, leadership, and focus that don't show in stats.

but to answer question for the forum, you just can't pick best player for any sports because you just can't swap people and there is so many what ifs.

in my opinion all you can do is pick handful of great players and say they are best of the best.

Seriously, what the hell goes on in your head?

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:12 PM
Well Kobe does play for the Lakers and they are currently NBA champions

and Gasol had a higher PER and led that same Laker squad in win shares

You know very well that the best player isn't always on the best team. Cmon bro

Kashmir13579
09-17-2010, 01:12 PM
i hate kobe and lebron equally. hatred does not influence my decision. i'm off to class.

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:13 PM
last 20 games of the season I believe Kobe played and they went 2-18 or something...

And the year when the Heat only won 15 games?

Rivera
09-17-2010, 01:13 PM
I don't know how you even try to compare Durant to Lebron at this point or ever. Durant will never be the type of player that Lebron is. Lebron is an all around player that fills up every stat category while Durant is just a scorer. They both average 30 ppg, except that Lebron gets 8-9 assists per game while Durant gets less than 3. You don't think that if Lebron got 2 assists a game that he couldn't average more ppg than Durant? Lebron is a far better defender and passer. The only thing that Durant does better is three point shooting. This is not even a close comparison.

really? ever? really? not even close??

durant offensive rating 118 lebron 121....durant defensive rating 104 lebron 102

durant and lebron are .4 and .2 in steal% and block % respectivley...durant has gotten alot better at defense see FIBA play where he blocked a potential game winning shot 2ce vs spain

im not even debating durant is a better passer than lebron cause lebron is CLEARLY the better passer but to say he cant is just being naieve....rebounds per game are neck and neck

like i previously state i expect a drop in lebrons stats and a small drop in his PER when i expect durants to go up

like i said before i wouldnt be surprised if lebron averaged a triple double and i wouldnt be surprised if durant averaged 35 ppg this or next season

here are the #'s they are closer than u think....and remember like i said i expect a drop cause he has to share the ball with 1 superstar and 1 star

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2010&p2=jamesle01&y2=2010

now ima go enjoy my kennedys

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:14 PM
yea cause robert horry was more to the lakers than what derick fisher is now:facepalm: kudos

dude, make an argument for Kobe outside roster support, which is what wins rings. Did you really facepalm me after you used the lamest reply ever to one of my posts? Grow up and make an argument, or place your vote and go away

airronijordan
09-17-2010, 01:14 PM
Kobe b/c he knows how to win games in the last few min (had 7 game winners just last season)............so Lebron is the greatest for the 1st 45-46 min of the game, and Kobe is the greatest for the last 2-3 min of a game

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:14 PM
and Gasol had a higher PER and led that same Laker squad in win shares

You know very well that the best player isn't always on the best team. Cmon bro

Isn't this a Kobe vs Lebron debate?

So basically Gasol > Kobe right?

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:14 PM
i hate kobe and lebron equally. hatred does not influence my decision. i'm off to class.

hopefully is Statistics :)

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 01:15 PM
:laugh: Like I said the only argument Lakers fans use "BuUTt OMgz KoBEee haz One 5 chempionshiPs!"

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:15 PM
Who are these people? You and who else? There's no way Durant is better than Wade. All Durant does is score. Wade has the all-around game. He's a better passer, defender, and slasher. Durant is a better rebounder, but only because he's 5 inches taller and plays forward. If Wade only got 2 assists a game like Durant does, he could average more points a game too. The only area that Durant is actually better than Wade is in 3 point shooting, that's it.

Espn analysts

TheTakeOver24
09-17-2010, 01:15 PM
And the year when the Heat only won 15 games?

what about it? i proved your point wrong.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:15 PM
Isn't this a Kobe vs Lebron debate?

So basically Gasol > Kobe right?

cmon man. I am simply saying your response was not a valid debate. You are better than that

daleja424
09-17-2010, 01:17 PM
And the year when the Heat only won 15 games?

let me quote yourself in response to yourself:


Isn't this a Kobe vs Lebron debate?

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:17 PM
what about it? i proved your point wrong.

You didn't prove nothing. And I am asking you a question. What happened to Wade and the Miami Heat when they won 15 games?

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:18 PM
let me quote yourself in response to yourself:

I'm sorry, was that post directed to you?

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:19 PM
Well Kobe does play for the Lakers and they are currently NBA champions

example.

Kobe was the best player in the NBA in 2005-06'. His Lakers won 45 games and were booted round 1.

Many times, if not a majority of the time, the best player in the NBA doesn't play for the champions. The Champions are the best TEAM.

two different things

daleja424
09-17-2010, 01:19 PM
if you want to have a personal conversation... use a telephone. This is a forum. Everything you post is fair game.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:21 PM
lets watch the insults please. The mods, including myself, don't want to hand out infractions and clean up this thread over another Kobe-LeBron debate gone personal.

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:21 PM
example.

Kobe was the best player in the NBA in 2005-06'. His Lakers won 45 games and were booted round 1.

Many times, if not a majority of the time, the best player in the NBA doesn't play for the champions. The Champions are the best TEAM.

two different things

So Jordan wasn't the best player in the game when he won those championships?

TheTakeOver24
09-17-2010, 01:22 PM
You didn't prove nothing. And I am asking you a question. What happened to Wade and the Miami Heat when they won 15 games?

Wade was injured and its common knowledge that Riley forced the team to tank the season... We needed a second option through the lottery. Ask Shawn Marion he'll tell you.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:23 PM
So Jordan wasn't the best player in the game when he won those championships?

sure he was. Like I said, much of the time, the best player in the NBA does not play for the champions.

Rivera
09-17-2010, 01:24 PM
So Jordan wasn't the best player in the game when he won those championships?


he said MOST OF THE TIME THE BEST PLAYER ISNT ON A CHAMPION SHIP TEAM

MOST OF THE TIME!!!! jesuss

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 01:25 PM
So Jordan wasn't the best player in the game when he won those championships?

:laugh: you can't even read lol. He said most of the time.

still1ballin
09-17-2010, 01:26 PM
Wade was injured and its common knowledge that Riley forced the team to tank the season... We needed a second option through the lottery. Ask Shawn Marion he'll tell you.

Indeed Wade was injuired in the 07-08 season. He only played 51 games that season. So in 51 games he was only able to get the Heat 15 wins! And Marion played for the Heat for like 16 games which is nothing.

Tanking? After watching Kobe since he was drafted, I can tell you Kobe would of never allowed his team to tank ever.

daleja424
09-17-2010, 01:29 PM
Why on earth do these threads always have to turn into bickering and name calling guys. Can't we just have a rational conversation...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-17-2010, 01:29 PM
Kobe bean Bryant is still the best

streetballa
09-17-2010, 01:32 PM
Lebron > Kobe it is just fact LBJ is the best player in the league....

Lakers fans will be using the argument well he had Wade and Bosh when he won his rings so Kobe was better. So just stop using rings = greatness, or Barkley will cry. Lebron is the most gifted and beastly athlete in the world 6'8 250 that is quick, powerful, has handles, defends, and can run point....

Kobe was great but he is not the same as he was a few years ago. I could make a pretty good case Durant is a better player right now than Kobe (look at pts/3pt %/rebounds/fg %/ft %/blocks). Only real stat Kobe is better at is assists. My list is...

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Kobe
4. Wade
5. Howard
6. Paul
7. Dirk
8. Gasol
9. Deron Williams
10. Roy

Honorable mention to: Pau, Duncan, Melo, Bogut, Bosh, Yao

Rivera
09-17-2010, 01:34 PM
Why on earth do these threads always have to turn into bickering and name calling guys. Can't we just have a rational conversation...

because its PSD

so no we cant...we were doing good for a while

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2010, 01:36 PM
I hate both, Kobe more, and I thought Lebron was the best for the past 2-3 years, but I chose Kobe. I know stats are a valid argument but I just think to be the best player you have to be successful, have that drive, and that determination as well. I know that the best player isn't always on the best team, but who's to say the best player is ALWAYS the one with the best stats? I think for now it's Kobe, but Lebron will definitely pass him this year. Kobe's intensity, drive and determination makes him the most feared player in the league atm. Like I said though, I think Lebron will surpass him this year due to the help of his supporting cast.

Klivlend
09-17-2010, 01:44 PM
People act like Lebron just rolls over in the playoffs. Did you not watch him battle the Wizards and Pistons in previous years. It can easily be said he willed his team to victory during those series. He scored like the final 24 consecutive points of the 4th quarter to beat to go on and beat the Pistons in overtime. LBJ has put up monster numbers in the playoffs.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:46 PM
I hate both, Kobe more, and I thought Lebron was the best for the past 2-3 years, but I chose Kobe. I know stats are a valid argument but I just think to be the best player you have to be successful, have that drive, and that determination as well. I know that the best player isn't always on the best team, but who's to say the best player is ALWAYS the one with the best stats? I think for now it's Kobe, but Lebron will definitely pass him this year. Kobe's intensity, drive and determination makes him the most feared player in the league atm. Like I said though, I think Lebron will surpass him this year due to the help of his supporting cast.

a TEAM is successful. In a team sport, there is only so much one player can do.

GMEN4EVER
09-17-2010, 01:47 PM
People act like Lebron just rolls over in the playoffs. Did you not watch him battle the Wizards and Pistons in previous years. It can easily be said he willed his team to victory during those series. He scored like the final 24 consecutive points of the 4th quarter to beat to go on and beat the Pistons in overtime. LBJ has put up monster numbers in the playoffs.

He has done well before, but he absolutely mailed it in last year. And it's been some time now since he got out of the east. Most important to me is what he did last post season. And because of the crap he pulled, i'm still leaving Kobe as number 1.

thescore53
09-17-2010, 01:47 PM
lebron
kobe
wade
kd
dwight
duncan
cp3
williams
mello
gasol

WadeKobe
09-17-2010, 01:50 PM
Espn analysts

If you haven't figured out yet that ESPN analysts' job is to promote the leagues and boost their TV ratings, I'm not sure what to say. That is what they get paid to do. Much like Fox News and MSNBC are paid to support their respective Political Party.

Of course they're going to prop up Kobe. Same reason why Wade is dogged everywhere. What's good about Miami? That's not a major market... so no one wants to promote Wade since his games are never on TV. Why promote someone people can't watch!?

It's the same reason that all the analysts were propping up Chicago and New York as the major players for signing Wade/Bosh/Bron. Why? Because they needed people to watch and care.

If they said they'd be going to Miami, no one would have cared. It was a disgrace to the sport that a Market so small is going to dominate the sport for years to come.

WadeKobe
09-17-2010, 01:52 PM
lebron
kobe
wade
kd
dwight
duncan
cp3
williams
mello
gasol

Giving Duncan his due... I like that. People need to realize he is still top 6 or 7 players in the league and the top (#1) PF still.

DoJoTheSlasher
09-17-2010, 01:53 PM
People act like Lebron just rolls over in the playoffs. Did you not watch him battle the Wizards and Pistons in previous years. It can easily be said he willed his team to victory during those series. He scored like the final 24 consecutive points of the 4th quarter to beat to go on and beat the Pistons in overtime. LBJ has put up monster numbers in the playoffs.

How can people say Dirk chokes in the playoffs while LeBron has won ZERO Finals games and he is a god in the playoffs?

Dirk has been flat out amazing in the playoffs his whole career, as has LeBron.

Anyways, Kobe is the best player today, followed by LeBron and Wade.

JordansBulls
09-17-2010, 01:54 PM
Isn't this a Kobe vs Lebron debate?

So basically Gasol > Kobe right?

Not as a player, but stats wise last year he was better. He led the team in both PER and Win Shares on the season and led the entire playoffs in Win Shares last year.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:56 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=jamesle01&y1=2010&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010

Playoff comparison, stastically for their careers. Please just look at them, and don't reply back with "The only important stat is 5 rings". We all know this. Just look at the comparison. LeBron has been better, INDIVIDUALLY, than Kobe in the playoffs

Pierzynski4Prez
09-17-2010, 01:56 PM
Kobe and Lebron are so close, what had me put Kobe over the edge, was the fact that if I had to choose 1 guy to take the last second shot, or have for a must-win game, I'm picking Kobe 10 out of 10 times.

Cool007
09-17-2010, 01:56 PM
I will take the Best player on a championship team.

Kobe.

LeBron is very close 2nd.

streetballa
09-17-2010, 01:57 PM
How can people say Dirk chokes in the playoffs while LeBron has won ZERO Finals games and he is a god in the playoffs?

Dirk has been flat out amazing in the playoffs his whole career, as has LeBron.

Anyways, Kobe is the best player today, followed by LeBron and Wade.

I remember Dirk getting the MVP award at a press conference because his team was knocked out in the first round of the playoffs....

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2010, 01:57 PM
a TEAM is successful. In a team sport, there is only so much one player can do.

yea I know but Kobe has proven that he can win with that elite team, and be a leader. That's a big part of being successful too. Lebron hasn't had that opportunity yet so we don't know what he can do with an elite supporting cast. As much as we can assume that MIA will win, we don't know that until the finals, so that's why for now I think Kobe is the best. If Lebron can bring Miami to the finals while maintaining his dominant stats, then he'll surely be the best player. Players like Dirk, Nash, Kidd, etc. are top players that at some point were considered top player in the league and had elite teams but haven't taken the final step to win the title. Now we get to see if Lebron can do it, and if he does, he'll top Kobe.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:57 PM
it just makes me wonder the overall intelligence of people who can not seperate an individual from team play. To win in team sports, you need the best overall roster. You can not simply surround the best player with whatever, and because he is the best player, he goes out and wins a championship. It doesn't work that way.

Pierzynski4Prez
09-17-2010, 01:58 PM
yea I know but Kobe has proven that he can win with that elite team, and be a leader. That's a big part of being successful too. Lebron hasn't had that opportunity yet so we don't know what he can do with an elite supporting cast. As much as we can assume that MIA will win, we don't know that until the finals, so that's why for now I think Kobe is the best. If Lebron can bring Miami to the finals while maintaining his dominant stats, then he'll surely be the best player. Players like Dirk, Nash, Kidd, etc. are top players that have had elite teams but haven't taken the final step to win the title. Now we get to see if Lebron can do it, and if he does, he'll top Kobe.

This

Pierzynski4Prez
09-17-2010, 01:59 PM
it just makes me wonder the overall intelligence of people who can not seperate an individual from team play. To win in team sports, you need the best overall roster. You can not simply surround the best player with whatever, and because he is the best player, he goes out and wins a championship. It doesn't work that way.

Because we don 't agree with your opinion, we are not intelligent?

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 01:59 PM
yea I know but Kobe has proven that he can win with that elite team, and be a leader. That's a big part of being successful too. Lebron hasn't had that opportunity yet so we don't know what he can do with an elite supporting cast. As much as we can assume that MIA will win, we don't know that until the finals, so that's why for now I think Kobe is the best. If Lebron can bring Miami to the finals while maintaining his dominant stats, then he'll surely be the best player. Players like Dirk, Nash, Kidd, etc. are top players that have had elite teams but haven't taken the final step to win the title. Now we get to see if Lebron can do it, and if he does, he'll top Kobe.

so you do indeed penalize a player for not having a supporting roster. That is up to you. I choose to remove a player from their team, and look at them individually when attempting to rank them. Is Shaq a better player than LeBron right now? Same thing applies. I understand Kobe isn't a shell of his former self, and I am reaching, but you see how your argument looks when you steer that direction.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:00 PM
Because we don 't agree with your opinion, we are not intelligent?

not when it comes to seperation ability. Make a rational arguement for Kobe Bryant, not Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers, current NBA champions.
They are the same thing, but they are not. If that makes sense

DoJoTheSlasher
09-17-2010, 02:01 PM
I remember Dirk getting the MVP award at a press conference because his team was knocked out in the first round of the playoffs....

Say it again???

HIS TEAM??

Exactly.

LeBron's TEAM plays better than Dirk's TEAM in the playoffs.

LeBron gets a free pass every year because he is LeBron.........

Dirk doesn't score 90 by himself and he is a "choker". If he is a choker, then so is LeBron.

Avenged
09-17-2010, 02:02 PM
This thread is a fail.

It never turns out well when comparing the two, I'm really surprised this is still open considering the back and forth jabbing going on.

Pierzynski4Prez
09-17-2010, 02:04 PM
not when it comes to seperation ability. Make a rational arguement for Kobe Bryant, not Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers, current NBA champions.
They are the same thing, but they are not. If that makes sense

In my post on the previous page, I stated why I voted for Kobe over Lebron.

I would rather have Kobe take a last second shot for me. If I had to have 1 guy to start a game for my team that is a MUST-WIN game, I'm taking Kobe at this point. Being clutch doesn't show up in all your stats. It is also why Lebron hasn't done anything worthwhile that should make him be the best player in the game. If he was clutch, he'd have more than a few 2nd round playoff births and getting swept in the finals on his resume.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:08 PM
In my post on the previous page, I stated why I voted for Kobe over Lebron.

I would rather have Kobe take a last second shot for me. If I had to have 1 guy to start a game for my team that is a MUST-WIN game, I'm taking Kobe at this point. Being clutch doesn't show up in all your stats. It is also why Lebron hasn't done anything worthwhile that should make him be the best player in the game. If he was clutch, he'd have more than a few 2nd round playoff births and getting swept in the finals on his resume.

fair enough. And we talked about the term "clutch" a while back. Its in the eye of the beholder. Does clutch not include the 3rd quarter, when a player goes on a 7 point spurt to stop a run?

And as its been shown, LeBron leads the NBA in production in a 5 minute game or less, with 2 possessions seperating them. And Kobe, percentage wise, is looking up at a number of players on last second shots.

I pick the better overall player. From minute 1-48, game 1-82 and beyond

Rivera
09-17-2010, 02:09 PM
In my post on the previous page, I stated why I voted for Kobe over Lebron.

I would rather have Kobe take a last second shot for me. If I had to have 1 guy to start a game for my team that is a MUST-WIN game, I'm taking Kobe at this point. Being clutch doesn't show up in all your stats. It is also why Lebron hasn't done anything worthwhile that should make him be the best player in the game. If he was clutch, he'd have more than a 2nd round playoff birth and getting swept in the finals on his resume.

once again this isnt who do u want to take the last shot....this is who is the better player....last time i checked a midrange jump shot with 7:45 left in the first quarter is worth the same amount of points as a mid range jumpshot as the time expired.....start a thread abt who u want to take the last shot

i agree tho abt the clutch/must win......but to say lebron hasnt done anything worth while is stupid....he brought a bad cavs team to the finals....2 mvps....i say thats somethin done of note.....he does have more then a 2nd round birth he has an ECF vs orlando.....and there was no way in hell THAT cavs team was winnin against that san antonio team...sorry

its about the best player in the NBA TODAY not over their career

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 02:09 PM
Well the fact that it's close is atleast positive. Normally the PSD polls go the wrong way fast.

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2010, 02:09 PM
so you do indeed penalize a player for not having a supporting roster.
I'm not penalizing Lebron. Like I said he has dominated but the measuring stick of being the best is success COMBINED with stats/domination which Kobe has, not just stats. Like I said, Kobe is the best right now because he's proven that he can win with an elite roster. If Lebron can do the same thing as Kobe (which is dominate but win a title AS A LEADER), but put up more dominant stats (which very well might happen), then I'll consider Lebron the best.


That is up to you. I choose to remove a player from their team, and look at them individually when attempting to rank them.
I do it differently. I look at stats, leadership abilities, success/awards, and so on...i guess we can't agree if we define "best player" differently. It just depends on how people define "best player".


Is Shaq a better player than LeBron right now?
c'mon...this is a lame counter argument...of course he's not right now, like I said, I look at domination combined with success. We can all assume and think that Miami will win the title with Lebron as the leader, but we don't know until we actually see it. When he does it, he'll be the best.

Rivera
09-17-2010, 02:10 PM
I pick the better overall player. From minute 1-48, game 1-82 and beyond

n this is y i picked KD :D

Avenged
09-17-2010, 02:11 PM
I hate both, Kobe more, and I thought Lebron was the best for the past 2-3 years, but I chose Kobe. I know stats are a valid argument but I just think to be the best player you have to be successful, have that drive, and that determination as well. I know that the best player isn't always on the best team, but who's to say the best player is ALWAYS the one with the best stats? I think for now it's Kobe, but Lebron will definitely pass him this year. Kobe's intensity, drive and determination makes him the most feared player in the league atm. Like I said though, I think Lebron will surpass him this year due to the help of his supporting cast.

Yeah, I think there needs to be a combination of things to look at when deciding who's the best. All of a sudden everyone is going off of stats only. I mean, why even watch the games then? Just watch the stats so you can get an understanding of who's good and who isn't, who's winning and who's not..

I still voted Lebron, but some of the reasoning here: "Kobe needed Gasol to win" is very weak, and the "Lebrons stats are way better" which isn't weak at all, but there are other things to the game..

VRP723
09-17-2010, 02:12 PM
Kobe

thescore53
09-17-2010, 02:13 PM
If you haven't figured out yet that ESPN analysts' job is to promote the leagues and boost their TV ratings, I'm not sure what to say. That is what they get paid to do. Much like Fox News and MSNBC are paid to support their respective Political Party.

Of course they're going to prop up Kobe. Same reason why Wade is dogged everywhere. What's good about Miami? That's not a major market... so no one wants to promote Wade since his games are never on TV. Why promote someone people can't watch!?

It's the same reason that all the analysts were propping up Chicago and New York as the major players for signing Wade/Bosh/Bron. Why? Because they needed people to watch and care.

If they said they'd be going to Miami, no one would have cared. It was a disgrace to the sport that a Market so small is going to dominate the sport for years to come.

that's the one thing im gonna like... with wade already there everyone knew miami would get someone. but espn and most media outlets didn't want to acknowledge it. LA, chi, nyk, bos, dallas, . thats where the most attention is.

its all good though cause there are superstars like durant, wade, and even lebron cause he chose to win rather than fall into the nyk hype.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:16 PM
I'm not penalizing Lebron. Like I said he has dominated but the measuring stick of being the best is success COMBINED with stats/domination which Kobe has, not just stats. Like I said, Kobe is the best right now because he's proven that he can win with an elite roster. If Lebron can do the same thing as Kobe (which is dominate but win a title AS A LEADER), but put up more dominant stats (which very well might happen), then I'll consider Lebron the best.


I do it differently. I look at stats, leadership abilities, success/awards, and so on...i guess we can't agree if we define "best player" differently. It just depends on how people define "best player".


c'mon...this is a lame counter argument...of course he's not right now, like I said, I look at domination combined with success. We can all assume and think that Miami will win the title with Lebron as the leader, but we don't know until we actually see it. When he does it, he'll be the best.


again, success hinges on 7-8 players outplaying the other team's 7-8 top players. One can only do so much.
I honestly can't wait for the Cavs to finish with 25 wins. Maybe then some will go back and realize how much better LeBron made that team, and what he means to a team. Honestly though, I am expecting just another line of excuses from those who don't like him

And I apologized for using an extreme to begin with. But its a perfect example of many using career achievement and roster support to rank a player over another player who statistically kicks their butt, and has been successful in the playoffs to their roster limit.

Cheers dude.

dhopisthename
09-17-2010, 02:17 PM
I can't believe kobe is winning this right now, alot of peoples argument is that kobe won the past two championships but if you switch kobe and lebron I would bet you get the same exact results.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:19 PM
I can't believe kobe is winning this right now, alot of peoples argument is that kobe won the past two championships but if you switch kobe and lebron I would bet you get the same exact results.

who knows about that. But its clear many are simply just giving Kobe the nod due to his team being far more talented and winning rings. Which is just b.s. at this point. But whatever.
It will be interesting when Kobe wins this one. I will keep my eye on how many Kobe voters here move on and choose Wade and Durant next. Basically, there are so many out there who would pick Luc Longley over LeBron right now due to hate, these kind of things really show your colors.

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2010, 02:20 PM
Yeah, I think there needs to be a combination of things to look at when deciding who's the best. All of a sudden everyone is going off of stats only. I mean, why even watch the games then? Just watch the stats so you can get an understanding of who's good and who isn't, who's winning and who's not..

I still voted Lebron, but some of the reasoning here: "Kobe needed Gasol to win" is very weak, and the "Lebrons stats are way better" which isn't weak at all, but there are other things to the game..

exactly because using that logic, someone that hasn't seen basketball in their lives can look at stats and just declare that Rudy Gay is better than Paul Pierce from last season. I think it comes down to a combination of things, when declaring who's best. Not just rings, not just stats.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:22 PM
exactly because using that logic, someone that hasn't seen basketball in their lives can look at stats and just declare that Rudy Gay is better than Paul Pierce from last season. I think it comes down to a combination of things, when declaring who's best. Not just rings, not just stats.

please tell me you aren't referring to me here...

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 02:23 PM
If Lebron doesn't win I don't think there is alot of sense in finishing the top 10. if we can't get #1 right I doubt we get many of the rest right.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:25 PM
If Lebron doesn't win I don't think there is alot of sense in finishing the top 10. if we can't get #1 right I doubt we get many of the rest right.

like I said. If Kobe wins here, watch who the Kobe voters vote for next. It will alarm you for the most part. Some will vote for anyone they can until they know they have morphed into toddler mode to keep from voting for James after this summer

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2010, 02:27 PM
again, success hinges on 7-8 players outplaying the other team's 7-8 top players.
I know that but I think being a team leader and getting as much outta your teammates as possible is also a big part of success. I know what you're saying because I used to say the same thing. But I just think that Lebron as a leader on an elite team is unproven, and we'll get to see it this year.


I honestly can't wait for the Cavs to finish with 25 wins. Maybe then some will go back and realize how much better LeBron made that team, and what he means to a team. Honestly though, I am expecting just another line of excuses from those who don't like him
Lebron meant so much to that team. Whoever doesn't think so is delusional. Lebron made that team so much better.


And I apologized for using an extreme to begin with. But its a perfect example of many using career achievement and roster support to rank a player over another player who statistically kicks their butt, and has been successful in the playoffs to their roster limit.
yea but Kobe has dominant stats too. It's not like comparing Lebron to (example) Paul Pierce now, where the team's offense is so balanced so Pierce doesn't get to put up stats as much. Kobe has great stats as well and I think that combined with his leadership and individual AND team success puts him over LBJ for now.

Rivera
09-17-2010, 02:28 PM
ive done more work on this thread than i have done in my shift here at work!! :speechless: my boss is gonna kill me!!! but hey its friday!

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2010, 02:28 PM
please tell me you aren't referring to me here...

nooooo. I'm just using it as a counter-argument that stats aren't everything. Because if they were you wouldn't have to watch basketball at all to be able to tell who's best. I think stats are the the most important thing in determining who's best but it's not the only thing.

DeZonia
09-17-2010, 02:30 PM
Better on ball defender, better help defender, better jump shooter, better midrange shooter, better ft shooter, better 3 point shooter, just as good or better at getting to the rim and into the lane, better overall scorer, more competitive, better ball handler, just as good of a passer when he wants to be, not as good of a rebounder but LeBron has alot more size and a SF should be a better rebounder than a SG anyway, not as good of a shot blocker but again a SF should block more shots than a SG....

Do you want me to continue?

THIS:clap::clap::clap:

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 02:30 PM
So Jordan wasn't the best player in the game when he won those championships?


like I said. If Kobe wins here, watch who the Kobe voters vote for next. It will alarm you for the most part. Some will vote for anyone they can until they know they have morphed into toddler mode to keep from voting for James after this summer

It isn't this bad in the NFL forum but here the homerism is sickening and the ignorance runs wild. I don't know how people actually try to argue stuff like "But I don't need stats I watch them play." lol

DeZonia
09-17-2010, 02:31 PM
First off, I am not a Kobe fan. I actually hate the guy. But LeBron's stats are extremely padded. That is why they are out of context. You are right, his supporting cast was garbage and extremely overrated in Cleveland. This leads to more shots for Lebron. The ball wass in LeBrons hands every second of every game (except when he quit against the Celtics). Padded stats.

THIS TO:clap::clap::clap:

Pierzynski4Prez
09-17-2010, 02:34 PM
like I said. If Kobe wins here, watch who the Kobe voters vote for next. It will alarm you for the most part. Some will vote for anyone they can until they know they have morphed into toddler mode to keep from voting for James after this summer

Regardless of who wins this one, I think you should just skip right to #3 to just eliminate that.

DeZonia
09-17-2010, 02:34 PM
Well according to shooting %, Lebron was the bettter 3pt shooter. As for defender thats a matter of opinion because I would take Lebron all day everyday as a help defender. And on the ball its a debate also I would probably prefer Lebrons strength he can guard 1-4 across the floor. I wouldnn't want to see Kobe guarding many 4's. Kobe does have the best midrange shot but his basically every stat favours LBJ so let kobe shoot his .456 from the mid range and I'll let LBJ shoot his .503 from everywhere. Again getting to the rim is your opinion which at this point is wrong. Lebron is quite easily IMO since that were doing here the hardest person to stop from getting to the rim. Lebron is a significantly better passer and I think its proven by the assist numbers he puts up with a far worse supporting cast.

You offered 0 prove in your argument and just your opinion by all means go on spouting whatever you want.

All lebron does is drive to the Rim (do a layup/dunk) or shoot a 3 that is why his FG % is so high. He also had pure shooters all around.

Avenged
09-17-2010, 02:36 PM
Regardless of who wins this one, I think you should just skip right to #3 to just eliminate that.

No, many believe Wade and Durant are ahead of Kobe.

whitemamba33
09-17-2010, 02:36 PM
Kobe put up about 35 a game, scored 81 in a single game, and had one of the longest stretches of 40+ scoring games in history when he didn't have a supporting cast.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:39 PM
nooooo. I'm just using it as a counter-argument that stats aren't everything. Because if they were you wouldn't have to watch basketball at all to be able to tell who's best. I think stats are the the most important thing in determining who's best but it's not the only thing.

agreed. Its a combination. Quite frankly, I look at it like this. Advanced stats tell us what the eye can't possibly catch many times.
Besides, watching is the best part of being a fan period

TheTakeOver24
09-17-2010, 02:40 PM
Kobe put up about 35 a game, scored 81 in a single game, and had one of the longest stretches of 40+ scoring games in history when he didn't have a supporting cast.

:facepalm: none of that was this past season... we're talkin whose the best in the game right now. i think we need a revote.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:40 PM
Kobe put up about 35 a game, scored 81 in a single game, and had one of the longest stretches of 40+ scoring games in history when he didn't have a supporting cast.

totally. a few years ago, when he was the best player in the NBA...

DeZonia
09-17-2010, 02:40 PM
Kobe put up about 35 a game, scored 81 in a single game, and had one of the longest stretches of 40+ scoring games in history when he didn't have a supporting cast.

:clap::clap: This, it shows what Kobe can do if he has patted stats like Lebron.

Ebbs
09-17-2010, 02:41 PM
Kobe put up about 35 a game, scored 81 in a single game, and had one of the longest stretches of 40+ scoring games in history when he didn't have a supporting cast.

Yea but were not talking a few years back...

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:42 PM
Regardless of who wins this one, I think you should just skip right to #3 to just eliminate that.

if LeBron wins here, I am not voting Kobe #2. I have made my opinions abundantly clear on the individuals I think are the best in the NBA

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:42 PM
:clap::clap: This, it shows what Kobe can do if he has patted stats like Lebron.

is there a Laker fan out there who thinks Kobe could actually dominate the way he did 4 years ago now?
Cmon peeps

Klivlend
09-17-2010, 02:43 PM
DeZonia is quickly becoming my least favorite poster on PSD. Am I alone?

TheTakeOver24
09-17-2010, 02:43 PM
:clap::clap: This, it shows what Kobe can do if he has patted stats like Lebron.

Id rather have a guy pad his stats while winning 66 games rather than 45.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-17-2010, 02:43 PM
again, success hinges on 7-8 players outplaying the other team's 7-8 top players. One can only do so much.
I honestly can't wait for the Cavs to finish with 25 wins. Maybe then some will go back and realize how much better LeBron made that team, and what he means to a team. Honestly though, I am expecting just another line of excuses from those who don't like him

And I apologized for using an extreme to begin with. But its a perfect example of many using career achievement and roster support to rank a player over another player who statistically kicks their butt, and has been successful in the playoffs to their roster limit.

Cheers dude.

What if they will win 40+ games?

Rivera
09-17-2010, 02:44 PM
Ok, you are usually professional but you are just being an ignorant ***. People who vote Kobe, believe he is the best. You have your opinion and we have ours. So stop being a dick and stfu.

I personally believe Kobe is the best, he has good stats + everything the stats don't show.

Lebron is #2 then Wade #3 but you don't have to talk out of your *** because we don't agree with you.

Just like the guy said about Pierce, his stats aren't that good anymore so does that not make him as good as he used to be? I don't think so, unless you are like the people who only go off of stats, if so maybe you are the ones being the Homers.

of first...if u checked the advanced stats you will see that pierce is the better player compared to gay

2nd if he was being a homer he would be saying wes johnson or kevin love is the best nba player

3rd if u did ur research and looked at the stats and stated facts instead of just rambiling and ranting then we might be able to state ur reason


to tell u the truth i havent seen 1 person post FACTS and reasons of why KOBE is BETTER than LEBRON TODAY....NOT OVERALL IN THEIR CAREER....TODAY.....so dont bring up 5 chips...that has nothing to do with y kobe is better than lebron TODAY

DeZonia
09-17-2010, 02:44 PM
is there a Laker fan out there who thinks Kobe could actually dominate the way he did 4 years ago now?
Cmon peeps

Did you not watch the playoffs? He was playing very well, just like many of the EXPERT analysis said Kobe seems to be playing better then he ever has. But I forgot people like you just look at stats then make you opinion.

Da Knicks
09-17-2010, 02:45 PM
yea cause robert horry was more to the lakers than what derick fisher is now:facepalm: kudos

:facepalm: Dude you make knick fans :cry: stop while you can...:mad:

Rivera
09-17-2010, 02:45 PM
What if they will win 40+ games?

then that will show A WHOLE LOT of people how lebron hurt that team...which i dont think is necessarily true...but i would LOVE to see that happen


I feel like a MOD posting in this forum

Klivlend
09-17-2010, 02:47 PM
Did you not watch the playoffs? He was playing very well, just like many of the EXPERT analysis said Kobe seems to be playing better then he ever has. But I forgot people like you just look at stats then make you opinion.

ha ha ha. o wow, guy. This is your reasoning to support your claims. Expert analysis on tv? You are new to PSD and have a lot to learn. Kobe shot a terrible percentage in The Finals. Even Laker Homers admit that.

Avenged
09-17-2010, 02:47 PM
then that will show A WHOLE LOT of people how lebron hurt that team...which i dont think is necessarily true...but i would LOVE to see that happen


I feel like a MOD posting in this forum

I don't get it..

If the Cavs win 40+ it will show people how Lebron hurt the team???

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:48 PM
What if they will win 40+ games?

then I will ask why on earth they couldn't play worth a shizz in the playoffs to help support LeBron James. His cast was pathetic.
And sure, it will hurt the argument that LeBron had no help.

But I am pretty damn confident that Cleveland roster, as currently constructed, is going to be horrible.

DeZonia
09-17-2010, 02:48 PM
of first...if u checked the advanced stats you will see that pierce is the better player compared to gay

2nd if he was being a homer he would be saying wes johnson or kevin love is the best nba player

3rd if u did ur research and looked at the stats and stated facts instead of just rambiling and ranting then we might be able to state ur reason


to tell u the truth i havent seen 1 person post FACTS and reasons of why KOBE is BETTER than LEBRON TODAY....NOT OVERALL IN THEIR CAREER....TODAY.....so dont bring up 5 chips...that has nothing to do with y kobe is better than lebron TODAY

wtf does this have to do with anything?

LOL so your 2nd point is what makes him a homer? So when all these people on lebrons dick says Watch all these homers vote for kobe its like comparing kevin love to being the best nba player?

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:49 PM
Did you not watch the playoffs? He was playing very well, just like many of the EXPERT analysis said Kobe seems to be playing better then he ever has. But I forgot people like you just look at stats then make you opinion.

sure did. But he is no longer that Kobe who single handedly took over parts of the season. Which is why so many of you are having problems here. Kobe in 2010 is not Kobe from 2005.

Da Knicks
09-17-2010, 02:49 PM
If you haven't figured out yet that ESPN analysts' job is to promote the leagues and boost their TV ratings, I'm not sure what to say. That is what they get paid to do. Much like Fox News and MSNBC are paid to support their respective Political Party.

Of course they're going to prop up Kobe. Same reason why Wade is dogged everywhere. What's good about Miami? That's not a major market... so no one wants to promote Wade since his games are never on TV. Why promote someone people can't watch!?

It's the same reason that all the analysts were propping up Chicago and New York as the major players for signing Wade/Bosh/Bron. Why? Because they needed people to watch and care.

If they said they'd be going to Miami, no one would have cared. It was a disgrace to the sport that a Market so small is going to dominate the sport for years to come.

lmao last time i checked miami was a big city in the u.s. that needed the boost more than the other cities. Remember they were the ones who couldnt fill in the arena. Miami is a big market by the way bro.;)

Klivlend
09-17-2010, 02:49 PM
wtf does this have to do with anything?

LOL so your 2nd point is what makes him a homer? So when all these people on lebrons dick says Watch all these homers vote for kobe its like comparing kevin love to being the best nba player?

Does anyone follow this?

DeZonia
09-17-2010, 02:49 PM
then I will ask why on earth they couldn't play worth a shizz in the playoffs to help support LeBron James. His cast was pathetic.
And sure, it will hurt the argument that LeBron had no help.

But I am pretty damn confident that Cleveland roster, as currently constructed, is going to be horrible.

They aren't the same roster, they lost West/Shaq/and Z so i don't see how we can compare those 2 teams.

Hawkeye15
09-17-2010, 02:50 PM
wtf does this have to do with anything?

LOL so your 2nd point is what makes him a homer? So when all these people on lebrons dick says Watch all these homers vote for kobe its like comparing kevin love to being the best nba player?

what are you talking about? You haven't made sense yet. Its like you just came from a time machine in 2005, and now you are throwing Kevin Love into the debate.