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ecorrea
09-11-2010, 01:38 PM
man this durant kid is ridiculous. 38 efficient points a usa record in a championship game.

who would you take to start a team with??

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 01:39 PM
LeBron

ecorrea
09-11-2010, 01:39 PM
i think id have to go with durant, 21 yrs old, does it all

Gators123
09-11-2010, 01:39 PM
LeBron

Hoopsadvocate
09-11-2010, 01:46 PM
i think id have to go with durant, 21 yrs old, does it all

Lebron does it all better plus has the better built for the long haul. Defense is much better playmaking is much better the only thing they rival in is scoring and rebounding. Durants a hard foul away from breaking something in that skinny frame.

ChiSox219
09-11-2010, 01:47 PM
Durant

Better scorer, better rebounder, better defender. I can always draft a PG in the 2nd round if I need a good passer.

Oh yeah, Durant's only 21.

TylerSL
09-11-2010, 02:26 PM
Durant

Better scorer, better rebounder, better defender. I can always draft a PG in the 2nd round if I need a good passer.

Oh yeah, Durant's only 21.

LOL Durant a better defender? Ha, no way. And Lebron has the higher PER, their TS% is like even, Lebron has a higher eFG%, wayyyyyyyyyy higher Assist%, higher Steal%, higher Block%, higher USG%, and more Win Shares.

And o yea, Lebron is 25, and just entering his prime.

TylerSL
09-11-2010, 02:27 PM
Durant

Better scorer, better rebounder, better defender. I can always draft a PG in the 2nd round if I need a good passer.

Oh yeah, Durant's only 21.

you also make it seam like Durant is better than Wade :facepalm:

Avenged
09-11-2010, 03:11 PM
Lebron with quite a distance.

ChiSox219
09-11-2010, 04:46 PM
LOL Durant a better defender? Ha, no way. And Lebron has the higher PER, their TS% is like even, Lebron has a higher eFG%, wayyyyyyyyyy higher Assist%, higher Steal%, higher Block%, higher USG%, and more Win Shares.

And o yea, Lebron is 25, and just entering his prime.

Lebron is not entering his prime, he's been in his prime for a few years.

He is also not a better defender than Durant, just flashier.

And yes, Lebron is better right now, but if I'm starting a team, I'm looking at the next 10 years and you will get more production out of KD during that time than Lebron, whose career is approximately half way over.

TylerSL
09-11-2010, 06:51 PM
Lebron is not entering his prime, he's been in his prime for a few years.

He is also not a better defender than Durant, just flashier.

And yes, Lebron is better right now, but if I'm starting a team, I'm looking at the next 10 years and you will get more production out of KD during that time than Lebron, whose career is approximately half way over.

25 is entering your prime, he has just put up rediculous numbers, :facepalm: to you saying Durant is a better defender, Durant is a crappy defender. :facepalm: x100000000000000000000 for you saying Lebron's career is 1/2 over. The guy is 25, in 7 more years he will only be 32. Kobe Bryant is 33, Tim Duncan is 34. Lebron will play for at least 10 more years unless serious injury. Yea his career is half over :rolleyes:

ChiSox219
09-11-2010, 07:59 PM
25 is entering your prime, he has just put up rediculous numbers, :facepalm: to you saying Durant is a better defender, Durant is a crappy defender. :facepalm: x100000000000000000000 for you saying Lebron's career is 1/2 over. The guy is 25, in 7 more years he will only be 32. Kobe Bryant is 33, Tim Duncan is 34. Lebron will play for at least 10 more years unless serious injury. Yea his career is half over :rolleyes:

There is data to back up all of my statements. You only have your subjective claims and sarcasm.

Jul 2010 join date strikes again

justinnum1
09-11-2010, 08:22 PM
Durant

Better scorer, better rebounder, better defender. I can always draft a PG in the 2nd round if I need a good passer.

Oh yeah, Durant's only 21.

:facepalm:

Why don't you just come out and say your a Lebron Hater.

ChiSox219
09-11-2010, 08:31 PM
:facepalm:

Why don't you just come out and say your a Lebron Hater.

No one is a Lebron hater for picking Durant in this topic, they are just smart.

TylerSL
09-11-2010, 08:32 PM
:facepalm:

Why don't you just come out and say your a Lebron Hater.

he also said he would take Durant over Wade on both sides of the ball :facepalm: He is a Heat hater.

ChiSox219
09-11-2010, 08:56 PM
he also said he would take Durant over Wade on both sides of the ball :facepalm: He is a Heat hater.

You called Durant a "crappy defender" which indicates to me that either you have never seen KD play at the NBA level or you are biased.

Khalifa21
09-11-2010, 09:19 PM
:laugh2: at anyone taking Durant over LeBron and thinking they can genuinely back it up.

Let's take a look at their basic and advanced numbers...

Basic first.


Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Kevin Durant 2009-10 21 82 82 39.5 9.7 20.3 .476 1.6 4.3 .365 9.2 10.2 .900 1.3 6.3 7.6 2.8 1.4 1.0 3.3 2.1 30.1
2 LeBron James 2009-10 25 76 76 39.0 10.1 20.1 .503 1.7 5.1 .333 7.8 10.2 .767 0.9 6.4 7.3 8.6 1.6 1.0 3.4 1.6 29.7

Straight from that we can see LeBron is the more efficient scorer, whereas Durant is a better long distance shooter and free throw shooter. Both are above average rebounders for their age, but one has no rebounders on their team, the other had a lot of good rebounders on his team. The only player on the Thunder that averaged more than 6 boards a game was Green (6.0 rpg). LeBron had to fight with Jamison (7.7 rpg), Varejao (7.6 rpg) and Shaq (6.7 rpg), all of whom grabbed more rebounds than the Thunder's second best rebounder.

The first huge difference is assists per game. LeBron blows Durant out of the water when it comes to passing and playmaking, averaging nearly 6 ASSISTS MORE, while turning the ball over only .1 times more often.

Now advanced, where the gap really becomes clear...


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Kevin Durant 2009-10 21 82 3239 26.2 .607 .514 3.8 17.9 11.0 13.5 1.8 1.9 11.7 32.0 118 104 11.1 5.0 16.1 0.238
2 LeBron James 2009-10 25 76 2966 31.1 .604 .545 3.0 18.5 11.1 41.8 2.2 2.0 12.3 33.5 121 102 13.3 5.2 18.5 0.299

LeBron's PER is far superior. Their TS% are about even (Durant's 3PT% and FT% keep him close to LeBron here) but LeBron's EFG% is higher, due to his ability to get better shots in the lane and finish at a higher, more efficient rate. It basically shows LeBron has much better shot selection than Durant.

LeBron does an incredible job at keeping his teammates involved when he's on the floor, assisting on nearly half of the FG's made by his teammates when he's not trying to score. Durant's AST% (13.5%) demonstrates that when the ball comes to him it usually doesn't go much further... You could make the argument that LeBron has the ball in his hands more but their USG% are very close rendering that argument invalid.

Furthermore, LeBron has a higher ORtg, lower DRtg, more offensive win shares, defensive win shares and overall win shares, all while he played 6 games less than Durant last season. That also translates to LeBron's superior WS/48.

I feel stupid even making this argument. It's so clear LeBron is the superior player and it's not really close.

Durant scores 38 points against Lithuania and people are saying he's better than Bron... :pity:

ChiSox219
09-11-2010, 10:00 PM
:laugh2: at anyone taking Durant over LeBron and thinking they can genuinely back it up.

Let's take a look at their basic and advanced numbers...

Basic first.


Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Kevin Durant 2009-10 21 82 82 39.5 9.7 20.3 .476 1.6 4.3 .365 9.2 10.2 .900 1.3 6.3 7.6 2.8 1.4 1.0 3.3 2.1 30.1
2 LeBron James 2009-10 25 76 76 39.0 10.1 20.1 .503 1.7 5.1 .333 7.8 10.2 .767 0.9 6.4 7.3 8.6 1.6 1.0 3.4 1.6 29.7

Straight from that we can see LeBron is the more efficient scorer, whereas Durant is a better long distance shooter and free throw shooter. Both are above average rebounders for their age, but one has no rebounders on their team, the other had a lot of good rebounders on his team. The only player on the Thunder that averaged more than 6 boards a game was Green (6.0 rpg). LeBron had to fight with Jamison (7.7 rpg), Varejao (7.6 rpg) and Shaq (6.7 rpg), all of whom grabbed more rebounds than the Thunder's second best rebounder.

The first huge difference is assists per game. LeBron blows Durant out of the water when it comes to passing and playmaking, averaging nearly 6 ASSISTS MORE, while turning the ball over only .1 times more often.

Now advanced, where the gap really becomes clear...


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Kevin Durant 2009-10 21 82 3239 26.2 .607 .514 3.8 17.9 11.0 13.5 1.8 1.9 11.7 32.0 118 104 11.1 5.0 16.1 0.238
2 LeBron James 2009-10 25 76 2966 31.1 .604 .545 3.0 18.5 11.1 41.8 2.2 2.0 12.3 33.5 121 102 13.3 5.2 18.5 0.299

LeBron's PER is far superior. Their TS% are about even (Durant's 3PT% and FT% keep him close to LeBron here) but LeBron's EFG% is higher, due to his ability to get better shots in the lane and finish at a higher, more efficient rate. It basically shows LeBron has much better shot selection than Durant.

LeBron does an incredible job at keeping his teammates involved when he's on the floor, assisting on nearly half of the FG's made by his teammates when he's not trying to score. Durant's AST% (13.5%) demonstrates that when the ball comes to him it usually doesn't go much further... You could make the argument that LeBron has the ball in his hands more but their USG% are very close rendering that argument invalid.

Furthermore, LeBron has a higher ORtg, lower DRtg, more offensive win shares, defensive win shares and overall win shares, all while he played 6 games less than Durant last season. That also translates to LeBron's superior WS/48.

I feel stupid even making this argument. It's so clear LeBron is the superior player and it's not really close.

Durant scores 38 points against Lithuania and people are saying he's better than Bron... :pity:

Durant is younger and has played 14,000 fewer minutes. His production was equal to Lebron's at the same age (by WS/48). KD is already a better defender, scores more efficiently, and has a more diverse scoring attack. No doubt Lebron is a better distributor and KD may never catch up in that department. But like I said, if I'm building a team, my PG is my distributor.

What Durant did last season was unbelievable, he was the real Most Improved Player of the year and if he keeps improving at that rate, watch out.

If I'm starting a team, I agree with Fran Fraschilla, I'm taking Durant.

No one is saying Durant is better than Lebron at the moment.

Jonathan2323
09-11-2010, 10:08 PM
LeBron does everything better than Durant except at shooting 3s.

TylerSL
09-12-2010, 12:16 AM
There is data to back up all of my statements. You only have your subjective claims and sarcasm.

Jul 2010 join date strikes again

yea I joined July 2010, I was waiting for somebody to mention that, because i joined July 4th 2010. Lebron came to Miami July 8th, and Wade and Bosh came to Miami on July 7th. It was during free agency yes, but before they all signed. So props to you for proving nothing

TylerSL
09-12-2010, 12:18 AM
No one is a Lebron hater for picking Durant in this topic, they are just a complete hater or stupid.

I fixed your post :laugh:

TylerSL
09-12-2010, 12:19 AM
You called Durant a "crappy defender" which indicates to me that either you have never seen KD play at the NBA level or you are biased.

wow, coming from a guy that says he would take Durant over Wade on both sides of the ball and Durant is better to build a team around then Lebron. :facepalm: talk about biased

TylerSL
09-12-2010, 12:26 AM
:laugh2: at anyone taking Durant over LeBron and thinking they can genuinely back it up.

Let's take a look at their basic and advanced numbers...

Basic first.


Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Kevin Durant 2009-10 21 82 82 39.5 9.7 20.3 .476 1.6 4.3 .365 9.2 10.2 .900 1.3 6.3 7.6 2.8 1.4 1.0 3.3 2.1 30.1
2 LeBron James 2009-10 25 76 76 39.0 10.1 20.1 .503 1.7 5.1 .333 7.8 10.2 .767 0.9 6.4 7.3 8.6 1.6 1.0 3.4 1.6 29.7

Straight from that we can see LeBron is the more efficient scorer, whereas Durant is a better long distance shooter and free throw shooter. Both are above average rebounders for their age, but one has no rebounders on their team, the other had a lot of good rebounders on his team. The only player on the Thunder that averaged more than 6 boards a game was Green (6.0 rpg). LeBron had to fight with Jamison (7.7 rpg), Varejao (7.6 rpg) and Shaq (6.7 rpg), all of whom grabbed more rebounds than the Thunder's second best rebounder.

The first huge difference is assists per game. LeBron blows Durant out of the water when it comes to passing and playmaking, averaging nearly 6 ASSISTS MORE, while turning the ball over only .1 times more often.

Now advanced, where the gap really becomes clear...


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Kevin Durant 2009-10 21 82 3239 26.2 .607 .514 3.8 17.9 11.0 13.5 1.8 1.9 11.7 32.0 118 104 11.1 5.0 16.1 0.238
2 LeBron James 2009-10 25 76 2966 31.1 .604 .545 3.0 18.5 11.1 41.8 2.2 2.0 12.3 33.5 121 102 13.3 5.2 18.5 0.299

LeBron's PER is far superior. Their TS% are about even (Durant's 3PT% and FT% keep him close to LeBron here) but LeBron's EFG% is higher, due to his ability to get better shots in the lane and finish at a higher, more efficient rate. It basically shows LeBron has much better shot selection than Durant.

LeBron does an incredible job at keeping his teammates involved when he's on the floor, assisting on nearly half of the FG's made by his teammates when he's not trying to score. Durant's AST% (13.5%) demonstrates that when the ball comes to him it usually doesn't go much further... You could make the argument that LeBron has the ball in his hands more but their USG% are very close rendering that argument invalid.

Furthermore, LeBron has a higher ORtg, lower DRtg, more offensive win shares, defensive win shares and overall win shares, all while he played 6 games less than Durant last season. That also translates to LeBron's superior WS/48.

I feel stupid even making this argument. It's so clear LeBron is the superior player and it's not really close.

Durant scores 38 points against Lithuania and people are saying he's better than Bron... :pity:

exactly, that White Sox fan is just a hater. He also said he would take Durant over Wade on both sides of the ball. :facepalm:

TylerSL
09-12-2010, 12:35 AM
Durant is younger and has played 14,000 fewer minutes. His production was equal to Lebron's at the same age (by WS/48). KD is already a better defender, scores more efficiently, and has a more diverse scoring attack. No doubt Lebron is a better distributor and KD may never catch up in that department. But like I said, if I'm building a team, my PG is my distributor.

What Durant did last season was unbelievable, he was the real Most Improved Player of the year and if he keeps improving at that rate, watch out.

If I'm starting a team, I agree with Fran Fraschilla, I'm taking Durant.

No one is saying Durant is better than Lebron at the moment.

I will bold things for you
1.no hes not
2.then why Lebron's eFG% higher. That means Lebron is a more efficient scorer.
3.all Durant does is shoot jumpshots, while Lebron can score from anywhere on the court. Hence his eFG% is higher. Durant has such a high TS% because he shoots good from 3 and like 90% FT%. That doesnt mean he is more diverse.
4.He could, but Lebron has made everybody around him better since he came into the league, and Durant hasnt yet, looking at his Assist% after the ball gets to him, he normally shoots it.
5.Lebron is practically a PG.
6.what Wade, Lebron, and Kobe (Kobe in the playoffs only) did last year was even more "unbelievable".

LBJ6
09-12-2010, 04:48 AM
Durant

Better scorer, better rebounder, better defender. I can always draft a PG in the 2nd round if I need a good passer.

Oh yeah, Durant's only 21.LOL! Just because he had nice game, he's now better than Lebron, and in so many aspect at that. Your kidding right. It's Lebron by miles!

aussie
09-12-2010, 08:12 AM
probs durant cos his younger

Khalifa21
09-12-2010, 08:14 AM
KD is already a better defender

Where are you getting these ridiculous statements from? I just proved with advanced stats that LeBron is the superior defender.


scores more efficiently

You didn't read any of my post did you? Once again LeBron's FG% and eFG% show he is the better, more efficient scorer.


and has a more diverse scoring attack.

I don't know how you come to this conclusion... If you look at their shot location charts.

LeBron James shot location (http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James)

Kevin Durant shot location (http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kevin%20Durant)

Both players shoot a very similar amount of attempts from <10 feet, 15-23 feet and 3 point range. The only significant difference is LeBron takes almost 7 shots a game at the rim (making a remarkable 73.3% of these shots) whereas Durant takes 5.3 shots a game close to the rim (making a respectable 69.8%).

Durant takes 3.3 shots from 10-15 feet whereas LeBron only attempts 1.2 a game from this distance. That highlights one thing to me... Durant is more comfortable settling for a lower percentage shot (the NBA average FG% from 10-15 feet is 39.4 for SF's) than LeBron who attacks the basket far more aggressively, going for the higher percentage shot (the NBA average FG% for shots close to the rim is 61.4% for SF's).

It does in no way show Durant's scoring attack is more diverse.


No one is saying Durant is better than Lebron at the moment.

I know, i'm not trying to prove LeBron is the better player, anyone with a fully functioning set of eyes and an ounce of basketball knowledge can see LeBron is better.

I'm proving your ridiculous statements that Durant is a better defender and better scorer wrong.

WadeKobe
09-12-2010, 10:01 AM
Durant is younger and has played 14,000 fewer minutes. His production was equal to Lebron's at the same age (by WS/48). KD is already a better defender, scores more efficiently, and has a more diverse scoring attack. No doubt Lebron is a better distributor and KD may never catch up in that department. But like I said, if I'm building a team, my PG is my distributor.

What Durant did last season was unbelievable, he was the real Most Improved Player of the year and if he keeps improving at that rate, watch out.

If I'm starting a team, I agree with Fran Fraschilla, I'm taking Durant.

No one is saying Durant is better than Lebron at the moment.


GTFO son. Is that why LeBron was chosen to NBA First Team All-Defensive for SF and Durant wasn't? Durant wasn't even selected for 2nd team. If he was you could make a case.

Seriously, as a die hard White Sox fan who just flew all the way from San Diego, CA to watch them retire Frank Thomas's #35 and watched Carlton Fisk unveil the portrait on the left field wall of the Cel.....

CHANGE YOUR USERNAME! You are completely unworthy.

LBJ06
09-12-2010, 10:55 AM
he also said he would take Durant over Wade on both sides of the ball :facepalm: He is a Heat hater.

I agree 100% he is a Heat hater.

ChiSox219
09-12-2010, 11:20 AM
I will bold things for you
1.no hes not
2.then why Lebron's eFG% higher. That means Lebron is a more efficient scorer.
3.all Durant does is shoot jumpshots, while Lebron can score from anywhere on the court. Hence his eFG% is higher. Durant has such a high TS% because he shoots good from 3 and like 90% FT%. That doesnt mean he is more diverse.
4.He could, but Lebron has made everybody around him better since he came into the league, and Durant hasnt yet, looking at his Assist% after the ball gets to him, he normally shoots it.
5.Lebron is practically a PG.
6.what Wade, Lebron, and Kobe (Kobe in the playoffs only) did last year was even more "unbelievable".

Ha.

Durant only takes jumpshots? How did he lead the league in Free Throws last year without going to the basket. Again, you prove you haven't seen him play and you don't have all the data.

TS% is scoring efficiency, Durant has a higher TS%.

Durant's offense is more diverse, you might know that if you watch him play a few times.

OKC's offense is designed to get KD the ball so he can shoot. They run a ton of double screens. Also, Westbrook is their distributor, and a damn fine one at that.

Your right about Lebron though, how he quit on his team during the Celtics serious, that was unbelievable.


LOL! Just because he had nice game, he's now better than Lebron, and in so many aspect at that. Your kidding right. It's Lebron by miles!

He had a nice season...becoming the 5th player in NBA history to average at least 30 points per game and a .600+ TS%. (Jordan, Kareem, Malone, Dantley)

Once again, I am not saying Durant is better than Lebron right now. I am saying I would take Durant to start a team with because he's a similar talent only younger and far less usage.


I understand that few people have even seen Durant play because the Thunder were on tv infrequently.






Oh, and Kobe made 1st team all-defense, he must be the best perimeter defender at the guard spot right? :laugh2:

WadeKobe
09-12-2010, 11:54 AM
Ha.

Durant only takes jumpshots? How did he lead the league in Free Throws last year without going to the basket. Again, you prove you haven't seen him play and you don't have all the data.

TS% is scoring efficiency, Durant has a higher TS%.

Durant's offense is more diverse, you might know that if you watch him play a few times.

OKC's offense is designed to get KD the ball so he can shoot. They run a ton of double screens. Also, Westbrook is their distributor, and a damn fine one at that.

Your right about Lebron though, how he quit on his team during the Celtics serious, that was unbelievable.



He had a nice season...becoming the 5th player in NBA history to average at least 30 points per game and a .600+ TS%. (Jordan, Kareem, Malone, Dantley)

Once again, I am not saying Durant is better than Lebron right now. I am saying I would take Durant to start a team with because he's a similar talent only younger and far less usage.


I understand that few people have even seen Durant play because the Thunder were on tv infrequently.






Oh, and Kobe made 1st team all-defense, he must be the best perimeter defender at the guard spot right? :laugh2:

I've never wanted to slap someone so hard on PSD. Your ignorance is unbelievable. I'm ashamed that you are a White Sox fan. Really, I am.

Khalifa21
09-12-2010, 12:28 PM
TS% is scoring efficiency, Durant has a higher TS%.

No... TS% is a good way of determining who is the better shooter (hence the name TRUE SHOOTING %), which Durant is only slightly ahead of LeBron (60.7% to 60.4%). This in itself should be hugely surprising as Durant is usually considered the much better shooter.

eFG% is the best judge of efficiency as it's an accumulation of FG% and takes into account the value of different shots. LeBron is superior in this category to Durant (54.5% to 51.4%).

LBJ06
09-12-2010, 02:01 PM
No... TS% is a good way of determining who is the better shooter (hence the name TRUE SHOOTING %), which Durant is only slightly ahead of LeBron (60.7% to 60.4%). This in itself should be hugely surprising as Durant is usually considered the much better shooter.

eFG% is the best judge of efficiency as it's an accumulation of FG% and takes into account the value of different shots. LeBron is superior in this category to Durant (54.5% to 51.4%).

Good Job but he is a hater dude so he wont listen to you :D

TylerSL
09-12-2010, 05:01 PM
Ha.

Durant only takes jumpshots? How did he lead the league in Free Throws last year without going to the basket. Again, you prove you haven't seen him play and you don't have all the data.

TS% is scoring efficiency, Durant has a higher TS%.

Durant's offense is more diverse, you might know that if you watch him play a few times.

OKC's offense is designed to get KD the ball so he can shoot. They run a ton of double screens. Also, Westbrook is their distributor, and a damn fine one at that.

Your right about Lebron though, how he quit on his team during the Celtics serious, that was unbelievable.



He had a nice season...becoming the 5th player in NBA history to average at least 30 points per game and a .600+ TS%. (Jordan, Kareem, Malone, Dantley)

Once again, I am not saying Durant is better than Lebron right now. I am saying I would take Durant to start a team with because he's a similar talent only younger and far less usage.


I understand that few people have even seen Durant play because the Thunder were on tv infrequently.






Oh, and Kobe made 1st team all-defense, he must be the best perimeter defender at the guard spot right? :laugh2:

first off, I havent pulled up stats because that other guy did. If you looked at those stats, it shows Durant takes the lower percentage shot (3 pointers and jumpshots). He took like 20 shots a game, if you take that many shots your going to get fouled. No, TS% is not efficient, eFG% is. TS% is Total Shooting% and the reason Durant's is higher is because his FT% is wayyyy higher than Lebron's. Also Durant's TS% was barely higher. So if Durant barley has a higher TS%, but shoots 16% higher at the line then Lebron, that isnt more efficient. :facepalm: to you proving nothing, like the time you tried to use the fact that I joined July, 2010, yet you wouldnt look that I joined 3 days before Wade and Bosh came to Miami, and 4 days before Lebron. I joined because of this great Free Agency and I wanted to be a part of it. Wow, you might take that statement back if you watched Lebron. LOL. That other poster gave you the facts that he is not, yet you still say (in so many words) "I dont care what the stats say, im right". It is laughable. Ha Lebron quit in the Celtics series, yet he played a hell of alot better in the playoffs than Durant did :rolleyes: You have absolutly no proof to anything you are saying, just spewing reasons to hate Lebron. LOL, agian "far less ussage"? Lebron had a USG% of 33.5%, while KD had 32%. That isnt far less, thats almost the same, again all your doing is stating completly untrue remarks, and when you do I will call you out on it. You keep saying I have never watched Durant, I have, but if you believe what you have said, either you hate Lebron/Heat so much that your oppinion is biased,or you have never accually seen Lebron (or Wade for that matter). Also are you implying Durant should have won an All NBA Defensive Team? If so :facepalm:

TylerSL
09-12-2010, 05:06 PM
I've never wanted to slap someone so hard on PSD. Your ignorance is unbelievable. I'm ashamed that you are a White Sox fan. Really, I am.

this x100000000000000000000000 exept I dont like the White Sox lol

JordansBulls
09-12-2010, 06:34 PM
It took Lebron 3 tries to win Gold Medal and Durant only 1 try. And Lebron was playing with Duncan, Wade, Melo, Dwight, etc while the best player next to Durant was Rose.

justinnum1
09-12-2010, 06:40 PM
It took Lebron 3 tries to win Gold Medal and Durant only 1 try. And Lebron was playing with Duncan, Wade, Melo, Dwight, etc while the best player next to Durant was Rose.

:facepalm: And Rose was far from the next best player to Durant.

WadeKobe
09-12-2010, 06:50 PM
It took Lebron 3 tries to win Gold Medal and Durant only 1 try. And Lebron was playing with Duncan, Wade, Melo, Dwight, etc while the best player next to Durant was Rose.

So what you're saying is that the competition which LeBron played against must have been equally as much "better" if not more-so.

How in the world can this be seen as an objective analysis? This is so loaded it is not even funny.

Ovratd1up
09-12-2010, 07:02 PM
No... TS% is a good way of determining who is the better shooter (hence the name TRUE SHOOTING %), which Durant is only slightly ahead of LeBron (60.7% to 60.4%). This in itself should be hugely surprising as Durant is usually considered the much better shooter.

eFG% is the best judge of efficiency as it's an accumulation of FG% and takes into account the value of different shots. LeBron is superior in this category to Durant (54.5% to 51.4%).

Umm, this is false. eFG% is a nice stat because it combines twos and threes, giving you a better picture of scoring efficiency. TS% is an even nicer stat because it combines two, threes, and free throws, giving you an even more complete picture of their scoring efficiency. It has nothing to do with how many 20 footers they can knock down. Chris Andersen had a higher TS% than Ray Allen.

Khalifa21
09-12-2010, 07:06 PM
It took Lebron 3 tries to win Gold Medal and Durant only 1 try. And Lebron was playing with Duncan, Wade, Melo, Dwight, etc while the best player next to Durant was Rose.

So Durant is better than Wade as well then?

JB, this is the most ridiculous argument ever, please stop.

Khalifa21
09-12-2010, 07:10 PM
Umm, this is false. eFG% is a nice stat because it combines twos and threes, giving you a better picture of scoring efficiency. TS% is an even nicer stat because it combines two, threes, and free throws, giving you an even more complete picture of their scoring efficiency. It has nothing to do with how many 20 footers they can knock down. Chris Andersen had a higher TS% than Ray Allen.

You make a good point and I agree with you, so i'll put it like this...

Player A has a TS% of 60.4% and an eFG% of 54.5%

Player B has a TS% of 60.7% and eFG% of 51.4%

Who is the more efficient scorer?

Ovratd1up
09-12-2010, 08:32 PM
You make a good point and I agree with you, so i'll put it like this...

Player A has a TS% of 60.4% and an eFG% of 54.5%

Player B has a TS% of 60.7% and eFG% of 51.4%

Who is the more efficient scorer?

Sure, Player B. For every attempt at scoring Player A makes, he gets more points than player A. That's essentially what TS% indicates, points per scoring attempt. Unless you have a different definition of efficiency..

Ovratd1up
09-12-2010, 08:41 PM
As far as Durant and Lebron, Durant is the better rebounder, defender, and better and more versatile scorer. But for me Lebron's huge edge in playmaking more than makes up for Durant's slight edge in all of the above.

Because Lebron hasn't shown the mental toughness to win a ring for himself, and because of Durant's age and higher potential for growth, I'd say I'd take Durant, but it's very tough.


As for Durant and Wade, Durant is once again the better rebounder, defender, and scorer, while Wade is the superior playmaker. However, Durant's edges against Wade in efficiency, scoring, and rebounding are far greater than his edges on Lebron. It's once again close, and once again I'd take Durant slightly over him.

Khalifa21
09-12-2010, 08:49 PM
Sure, Player B. For every attempt at scoring Player A makes, he gets more points than player A. That's essentially what TS% indicates, points per scoring attempt. Unless you have a different definition of efficiency..

So your saying a player who's TS% is .3% higher is a better scorer than someone who's eFG% is 3.4% higher?

Ovratd1up
09-12-2010, 09:09 PM
So your saying a player who's TS% is .3% higher is a better scorer than someone who's eFG% is 3.4% higher?

Slightly. TS% already takes eFG% into account, it just adds some. If anything it's good that we have this stat, because we could be here thinking that the player with a higher eFG% always scores more efficiently, while another player got to the line at such a good rate that he actually scored more efficiently than the player with the higher eFG%.

TylerSL
09-12-2010, 09:18 PM
Umm, this is false. eFG% is a nice stat because it combines twos and threes, giving you a better picture of scoring efficiency. TS% is an even nicer stat because it combines two, threes, and free throws, giving you an even more complete picture of their scoring efficiency. It has nothing to do with how many 20 footers they can knock down. Chris Andersen had a higher TS% than Ray Allen.

are you implying that Durant is a more efficient scorer than Lebron? :facepalm: if you are

ChiSox219
09-12-2010, 09:19 PM
Umm, this is false. eFG% is a nice stat because it combines twos and threes, giving you a better picture of scoring efficiency. TS% is an even nicer stat because it combines two, threes, and free throws, giving you an even more complete picture of their scoring efficiency. It has nothing to do with how many 20 footers they can knock down. Chris Andersen had a higher TS% than Ray Allen.


As far as Durant and Lebron, Durant is the better rebounder, defender, and better and more versatile scorer. But for me Lebron's huge edge in playmaking more than makes up for Durant's slight edge in all of the above.

Because Lebron hasn't shown the mental toughness to win a ring for himself, and because of Durant's age and higher potential for growth, I'd say I'd take Durant, but it's very tough.


As for Durant and Wade, Durant is once again the better rebounder, defender, and scorer, while Wade is the superior playmaker. However, Durant's edges against Wade in efficiency, scoring, and rebounding are far greater than his edges on Lebron. It's once again close, and once again I'd take Durant slightly over him.


Slightly. TS% already takes eFG% into account, it just adds some. If anything it's good that we have this stat, because we could be here thinking that the player with a higher eFG% always scores more efficiently, while another player got to the line at such a good rate that he actually scored more efficiently than the player with the higher eFG%.

All of the above is gold.


You make a good point and I agree with you, so i'll put it like this...

Player A has a TS% of 60.4% and an eFG% of 54.5%

Player B has a TS% of 60.7% and eFG% of 51.4%

Who is the more efficient scorer?

Tredigs already destroyed this argument.

Ovratd1up
09-12-2010, 09:20 PM
are you implying that Durant is a more efficient scorer than Lebron? :facepalm: if you are

Implying refers to taking leaps in judgement from what is known.
So no, I am not implying, but merely using statistics and facts to decide.

ChiSox219
09-12-2010, 09:21 PM
are you implying that Durant is a more efficient scorer than Lebron? :facepalm: if you are

How long does it take to put your makeup on, clown?

Ovratd1up
09-12-2010, 09:23 PM
:)

Khalifa21
09-12-2010, 09:37 PM
Tredigs already destroyed this argument.

No, he didn't. When I was trying to get an answer out of some other dude in that thread, I said neither of the players were Bron or Durant to get an unbiased answer out of him, when it was clear it was LeBron and KD.

I'm really just looking for an unbiased answer.

I don't see how anyone could say, after seeing the TS% and eFG% of LeBron and Durant, that Durant is the more efficient scorer.

When their TS% are practically identical, LeBron's eFG% is higher, so it must go to say something about his efficiency... Please explain to me as to why this is not a legitimate argument for LeBron being the more efficient scorer.

ChiSox219
09-12-2010, 09:43 PM
No, he didn't. When I was trying to get an answer out of some other dude in that thread, I said neither of the players were Bron or Durant to get an unbiased answer out of him, when it was clear it was LeBron and KD.

I'm really just looking for an unbiased answer.

I don't see how anyone could say, after seeing the TS% and eFG% of LeBron and Durant, that Durant is the more efficient scorer.

When their TS% are practically identical, LeBron's eFG% is higher, so it must go to say something about his efficiency... Please explain to me as to why this is not a legitimate argument for LeBron being the more efficient scorer.

Because free throws are part of scoring and eFG% does not factor that in.

Ovratd1up
09-12-2010, 09:47 PM
No, he didn't. When I was trying to get an answer out of some other dude in that thread, I said neither of the players were Bron or Durant to get an unbiased answer out of him, when it was clear it was LeBron and KD.

I'm really just looking for an unbiased answer.

I don't see how anyone could say, after seeing the TS% and eFG% of LeBron and Durant, that Durant is the more efficient scorer.

When their TS% are practically identical, LeBron's eFG% is higher, so it must go to say something about his efficiency... Please explain to me as to why this is not a legitimate argument for LeBron being the more efficient scorer.

I already gave you an unbiased answer


I mean no offense at all with this, but I just think this is a case of you not completely understanding what the stats mean.

As I already stated, eFG% became nearly obsolete with TS%, as it accounted for the things eFG% accounted for but also (not only) considered free throws, which also is a commonly used method of scoring. eFG% is still used because together with TS% and FG% it gives you a good idea of how the players score (twos/threes/free throws), while TS% has the efficiency aspect covered.

Khalifa21
09-12-2010, 09:48 PM
Because free throws are part of scoring and eFG% does not factor that in.

So it must be a fair statement to say LeBron James is a better, more efficient scorer than Kevin Durant before you factor in free throw shooting?

Ovratd1up
09-12-2010, 09:59 PM
So it must be a fair statement to say LeBron James is a better, more efficient scorer than Kevin Durant before you factor in free throw shooting?

For now, yes. Too bad the NBA actually counts that ****.

ChiSox219
09-12-2010, 10:09 PM
For now, yes. Too bad the NBA actually counts that ****.

What he said ^


But Khalifa, understand, that if Durant didn't get to the line as often as he did, he could shoot 100% from the line and his TS% would drop.

Khalifa21
09-12-2010, 10:10 PM
For now, yes. Too bad the NBA actually counts that ****.

I'm just trying to look at it from every perspective.

You could argue that both LeBron and Durant get a ton of free throws they don't deserve. Take out those phantom free throws and the TS% would turn slightly in LeBron's favor, because the sample size for the FT's they take would be smaller.

I've done so much LeBron/Durant arguing today I think i'm done. Just wanna watch some football now!

Baller1
09-12-2010, 10:12 PM
So it must be a fair statement to say LeBron James is a better, more efficient scorer than Kevin Durant before you factor in free throw shooting?

Yeah, but what does that stat really accomplish considering free throws are a significant part of the game?

Baller1
09-12-2010, 10:13 PM
I'm just trying to look at it from every perspective.

You could argue that both LeBron and Durant get a ton of free throws they don't deserve. Take out those phantom free throws and the TS% would turn slightly in LeBron's favor, because the sample size for the FT's they take would be smaller.

I've done so much LeBron/Durant arguing today I think i'm done. Just wanna watch some football now!

**** yeah...

TylerSL
09-12-2010, 10:39 PM
How long does it take to put your makeup on, clown?

wow :facepalm: Lebron is clearly better than Durant, im done with this thread :facepalm:

WadeKobe
09-13-2010, 01:33 AM
As far as Durant and Lebron, Durant is the better rebounder, defender, and better and more versatile scorer. But for me Lebron's huge edge in playmaking more than makes up for Durant's slight edge in all of the above.

Because Lebron hasn't shown the mental toughness to win a ring for himself, and because of Durant's age and higher potential for growth, I'd say I'd take Durant, but it's very tough.


As for Durant and Wade, Durant is once again the better rebounder, defender, and scorer, while Wade is the superior playmaker. However, Durant's edges against Wade in efficiency, scoring, and rebounding are far greater than his edges on Lebron. It's once again close, and once again I'd take Durant slightly over him.

I would love to walk through life this clueless. I can't imagine how simple it must make everything.

jackdawson
09-13-2010, 02:36 PM
he also said he would take Durant over Wade on both sides of the ball :facepalm: He is a Heat hater.

Let the kid play with toys. He has been experiencing insomnia since July 7th ;)

JordansBulls
09-13-2010, 03:30 PM
So what you're saying is that the competition which LeBron played against must have been equally as much "better" if not more-so.

How in the world can this be seen as an objective analysis? This is so loaded it is not even funny.

Greece didn't even have 1 NBA player when they beat the US in FIBA. Also Puerto Rico's best player was Carlos Arroyo in 2004 and they beat the US by 20.

TheDagger
09-13-2010, 08:05 PM
Some people just don't understand the reasoning behind some saying they would take Durant over LeBron. They reference how well LeBron played last year in comparison with Durant and as a result state LeBron is far greater than Durant will ever be.

First things first, Kevin Durant is only 21 years of age. There was a time when LeBron James was also 21 years old. Let's just compare his numbers against LeBron's @ 21 years old via Advanced stats which measure a players impact on the game.


Rk Player Season Age G MP TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Kevin Durant 2009-10 21 82 3239 .607 .514 3.8 17.9 11.0 13.5 1.8 1.9 11.7 32.0 118 104 11.1 5.0 16.1 0.238
2 LeBron James 2005-06 21 79 3361 .568 .515 2.6 17.1 9.8 32.8 2.0 1.5 10.7 33.6 115 104 12.0 4.3 16.3 0.232


First off we have TS% which encompasses every shot a player takes on the floor. It scales FT's into possessions used, 3 point FG's to be 50% more valuable than 2 point FG, and 1's etc.

As you can see Kevin Durant is clearly the more efficient scorer of the 2 players and it's not even close. As a matter of fact Durant was more efficient at the age of 21 than LeBron James was at age 25.

Secondly I would like to focus on a stat called Win Shares per 48. That is essentially how much a player produces for his team. As you can tell Durant has a higher WSp48 which is actually 2nd all time among 21 year olds only behind Shaquille O'Neal.


Now I would like to analyze the impact their respective teams undergo when the players were off the court.


http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6826/73258315.jpg


Offensively the players are very close in terms of impact. Durant had a bit of a greater impact on the Thunder due to the fact he is literally the only efficienct scorer they had on the team, remember LeBron also had prime Big Z & Russell Westbrook is only a sub 40% shooter.

However defensively which is underlined yellow you can clearly see that Durant has a FAR greater impact on his team than LeBron did at the same age.

Overall the net these 2 players have on their teams for an entire game is roughly 17.2 points vs 10.2 points giving Durant a massive edge. This clearly demonstrates Durant has a far greater impact on his team than LeBron did at the same age. It is underlined in red

Third I would like to look at just how much of an impact LeBron's assists have on his team. Take a look at the third underlined stat which is team FG% and that is underlined with orange. Despite the fact LeBron averages double the amount of assists as Durant did at this respective age, there is not that large of a margin in team FG%.

The reason for this? Durant is not the primary distributor on his team and he never will be. LeBron has to have the ball in his hands to be effective whereas Kevin Durant almost entirely plays off of the basketball. As a result LeBron's PG struggles mightily to get assists meanwhile Kevin Durant's flourishes. As a matter of fact when you combine the PG+SF, LBJ+Snow and Durant+Westbrook are exactly equal in assists per game at 10.8.



All in all it's quite obvious Durant was a superior player at age 21 than LeBron was. LeBron also went through a massive decline at age 22 so it should be expected Durant will continue to be ahead of his pace. Does this automatically translate to Durant being better at 25 than LeBron is currently? No, but it certainly makes it possible. So please stop with all of this only a LeBron hater would take Durant over LeBron.

Durant @ 21>LeBron @ 21 & 22

justinnum1
09-13-2010, 08:27 PM
:facepalm:

Lebron>Durant any age

TheDagger
09-13-2010, 08:29 PM
:facepalm:

Lebron>Durant any age

I>Wade at any age. See I can post ridiculously biased opinions with absolutely no support either.

justinnum1
09-13-2010, 09:04 PM
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2

:whistle:

todu82
09-13-2010, 09:23 PM
Yeah, Lebron's the better player.

Avenged
09-13-2010, 09:34 PM
There really isn't any point in arguing this anymore with all the Lebron vs. Durant threads there have been lately..

It was Kobe vs. (everyone who showed top league promise), and now it's Lebron vs. (everyone who shows top league promise).

Lebron is the better player and Lebron has the better team.

Gators123
09-13-2010, 09:45 PM
LeBron is better now, but who knows what KD will do in the next couple of years.

TheDagger
09-13-2010, 09:55 PM
There really isn't any point in arguing this anymore with all the Lebron vs. Durant threads there have been lately..

It was Kobe vs. (everyone who showed top league promise), and now it's Lebron vs. (everyone who shows top league promise).

Lebron is the better player and Lebron has the better team.


Just curious, what exactly happened with Kobe vs LeBron? :confused:

Avenged
09-13-2010, 10:01 PM
Just curious, what exactly happened with Kobe vs LeBron? :confused:

Well, i think its clear Lebron is the better player now in a statistical matter.

Seeing as Durant is everything people want in a player, he's quickly becoming "overrated". I say that with quotes because he has the talent to do so, but he isn't there yet.

BTW, i'd be quick to argue Kobe is still #2 (I don't think he's #1, and I don't think Durant is better than Lebron, Kobe, or Wade.)

TheDagger
09-13-2010, 10:14 PM
Well, i think its clear Lebron is the better player now in a statistical matter.

Seeing as Durant is everything people want in a player, he's quickly becoming "overrated". I say that with quotes because he has the talent to do so, but he isn't there yet.

BTW, i'd be quick to argue Kobe is still #2 (I don't think he's #1, and I don't think Durant is better than Lebron, Kobe, or Wade.)

I have never argued in this thread Durant was better than current LeBron. I was simply displaying the comparison of the 2 players at the same age, 21.

What about Bird vs Jordan in 1987 when Jordan was just a 3rd year player and Bird was coming off his 3rd straight MVP? Bird was averaging double the amount of assists as Jordan and nobody thought Jordan could challenge Bird as the best in the game. Guess what, he surpassed him within a few years.


It's all speculation at this point but to claim Durant can't surpass LeBron is foolish.

That was the point of this thread, not to claim Durant is better than LeBron but to put to rest this "there is no way he can ever surpass him talk". Facts are Durant at 21 is better than LeBron was at 21 or 22.

BillyHoyle35
09-13-2010, 10:38 PM
nice post with some effort backing it up.

Khalifa21
09-13-2010, 11:11 PM
LeBron >>>>> Durant

Durant is turning into one of my least favorite players in the league because of some of the ridiculous hype this guy's is getting after ONE great season. It's a shame because he's a real down to earth dude, but I really am starting to hate him.

Chronz
09-13-2010, 11:32 PM
KD vs Bron is going to be what Tmac vs Kobe shouldve been

TheDagger
09-13-2010, 11:32 PM
LeBron >>>>> Durant

Durant is turning into one of my least favorite players in the league because of some of the ridiculous hype this guy's is getting after ONE great season. It's a shame because he's a real down to earth dude, but I really am starting to hate him.

Kind of like LeBron=the best player in the league after 2006?

Avenged
09-14-2010, 12:28 AM
KD vs Bron is going to be what Tmac vs Kobe shouldve been

Depends on team success more than anything though.

Lebron already has the establish team to win a couple of championship which will way heavily when it's such a close race (or should be) between two individuals.

Durant has a nice thing going for his team, but hes going to have to elevate that into championships.

That was one of the major setbacks for T-mac (always being bashed for not getting out of the 1st round) and of course injuries.

Avenged
09-14-2010, 12:30 AM
I have never argued in this thread Durant was better than current LeBron. I was simply displaying the comparison of the 2 players at the same age, 21.

What about Bird vs Jordan in 1987 when Jordan was just a 3rd year player and Bird was coming off his 3rd straight MVP? Bird was averaging double the amount of assists as Jordan and nobody thought Jordan could challenge Bird as the best in the game. Guess what, he surpassed him within a few years.


It's all speculation at this point but to claim Durant can't surpass LeBron is foolish.

That was the point of this thread, not to claim Durant is better than LeBron but to put to rest this "there is no way he can ever surpass him talk". Facts are Durant at 21 is better than LeBron was at 21 or 22.

I wasn't referring to you, I meant in general.

Lebron is better than Durant and anyone in the league for that matter.

But Durant is almost there. In my opinion, the race between the two will be a lot more interesting this year, especially if Durant wins the MVP.

Ovratd1up
09-14-2010, 03:13 AM
:facepalm:

Lebron>Durant any age

I am forced to wonder how the hell you cope with your own ways.

**** you.

jackdawson
09-14-2010, 03:25 AM
The OP has multiple accounts for sure. He/She just didn't dare to create this thread with his/her original account.

Ovratd1up
09-14-2010, 03:35 AM
The OP has multiple accounts for sure. He/She just didn't dare to create this thread with his/her original account.

Maybe it was a knowledgeable Heat fan that didn't want to be excommunicated.

TheDagger
09-14-2010, 08:33 AM
The OP has multiple accounts for sure. He/She just didn't dare to create this thread with his/her original account.

first post i've ever made here but i post on that other site

tin foil hat much?

Baller1
09-14-2010, 02:33 PM
I would love to walk through life this clueless. I can't imagine how simple it must make everything.

It's probably better than walking through life shaded by bias.

WadeKobe
09-14-2010, 08:10 PM
It's probably better than walking through life shaded by bias.

HAHA. It's biased to say that LeBron is a better defender than Durant? But not the other way around?

Says the guy with Durant in his sig... :rolleyes:

The state of NBA fandom is pathetic. It's all about scoring. If someone is a great scorer they're automaticaly better at everything else. :puke:

ChiSox219
09-14-2010, 08:16 PM
HAHA. It's biased to say that LeBron is a better defender than Durant? But not the other way around?

Says the guy with Durant in his sig... :rolleyes:

The state of NBA fandom is pathetic. It's all about scoring. If someone is a great scorer they're automaticaly better at everything else. :puke:

Durant is a better defender. So, either it's biased or inaccurate to call Lebron the better defender.


sources:

DRAPM
DWS
Synergy
Game footage

WadeKobe
09-14-2010, 08:36 PM
Durant is a better defender. So, either it's biased or inaccurate to call Lebron the better defender.


sources:

DRAPM
DWS
Synergy
Game footage

Hehehe, you make me giggle.

Ovratd1up
09-14-2010, 09:53 PM
Is that some sort of self-defense mechanism?

Khalifa21
09-14-2010, 10:19 PM
Durant is a better defender. So, either it's biased or inaccurate to call Lebron the better defender.


sources:

DRAPM
DWS
Synergy
Game footage

LeBron has more DWS whilst playing 6 less games last season (5.2 to 5.0).

LeBron also has a superior DRtg. 102 to KD's 104.

I'd love to see some synergy stats that prove KD is the better defender, and game footage? C'mon, I watched a lot of both players last season and I can quite easily say LeBron is the better defender. So I can use that as my source as well...

What is DRAPM as well?

ChiSox219
09-14-2010, 10:29 PM
LeBron has more DWS whilst playing 6 less games last season (5.2 to 5.0).

LeBron also has a superior DRtg. 102 to KD's 104.

I'd love to see some synergy stats that prove KD is the better defender, and game footage? C'mon, I watched a lot of both players last season and I can quite easily say LeBron is the better defender. So I can use that as my source as well...

What is DRAPM as well?


My mistake on win shares

Drtg is not really an individual stat, it depends heavily on teammates and opposition.

DRAPM accounts for teammates and opponents and adjusts appropriately. It is no longer available to the public because its creator is now employed by an NBA team.

LBJ06
09-15-2010, 05:39 AM
I noticed some people always chooses the one being compared to LeBron. The fun part is that they try so hard to defend that player even though they know LeBron is better :D

footballer2369
09-15-2010, 09:24 AM
My mistake on win shares

Drtg is not really an individual stat, it depends heavily on teammates and opposition.

DRAPM accounts for teammates and opponents and adjusts appropriately. It is no longer available to the public because its creator is now employed by an NBA team.

LOL!!

Your entire argument about defense incorrect and in flames...

Where to now? The intangibles argument?

Come on dude, Durant just isn't there and probably will never be.

His only advantage is shooting and that advantage is miniscule to say the least (and his advantage is only free throw shooting in the first place).

Baller1
09-15-2010, 11:58 AM
HAHA. It's biased to say that LeBron is a better defender than Durant? But not the other way around?

Says the guy with Durant in his sig... :rolleyes:

The state of NBA fandom is pathetic. It's all about scoring. If someone is a great scorer they're automaticaly better at everything else. :puke:

So Durant isn't the better rebounder? Or the better free throw shooter? Or three point shooter? Or leader?

LeBron is the better player, but he isn't untouchable. Durant will be there very soon.

ChiSox219
09-15-2010, 01:31 PM
LOL!!

Your entire argument about defense incorrect and in flames...

Where to now? The intangibles argument?

Come on dude, Durant just isn't there and probably will never be.

His only advantage is shooting and that advantage is miniscule to say the least (and his advantage is only free throw shooting in the first place).

Get over yourself.

footballer2369
09-15-2010, 04:15 PM
Get over yourself.

Touche...

I change my mind. Durant is better.

Afridi786
09-15-2010, 04:24 PM
Durant is the better basketball player, and Lebron is the better athlete.

the life
09-16-2010, 06:43 AM
Good article:

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/fran_blinebury/09/14/lebron-durant/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

kArSoN RyDaH
09-16-2010, 06:47 AM
individual accolades wise? id say they will be about even. championships wise? i say lbj. the team they have in miami will win more than OKC will ever win imo. unless they pick up another BIG name player or a big man they wont win an nba finals. imo. so lbj.

Khalifa21
09-16-2010, 07:51 AM
I find it so funny how hard the NBA is pushing Durant as the new face of the NBA after LeBron's "decision". LeBron handle it poorly, but he is still the best player in the league.

In ESPN's eyes LeBron's had his time. He's just gonna have to prove everyone wrong with his performances and all of the rings he's gonna win...

Meaze_Gibson
09-16-2010, 10:30 AM
Those stats could be manipulated to say a 21 year old Durant was better than Magic or Jordan at 21..lol numbers lie..The love a player gets for a great season and a sub par playoff performance is outrageous..Dude has not even proved himself in postseason yet can be compared to one of the best in the game..but I guess stats rule so..

TheDagger
09-16-2010, 10:33 AM
Those stats could be manipulated to say a 21 year old Durant was better than Magic or Jordan at 21..lol numbers lie..The love a player gets for a great season and a sub par playoff performance is outrageous..Dude has not even proved himself in postseason yet can be compared to one of the best in the game..but I guess stats rule so..

What has LeBron proved in the postseason? The 2 times he has played the champs he played just as poorly as Durant

Meaze_Gibson
09-16-2010, 11:18 AM
Bron proved that he gets his issue off overall still vs elite teams

Bron averaged 31pts and 9assists on 50 percent shooting vs lakers last year
playoffs vs bos 2008 27pts 7as 6brd 2stls and 1 blk on 35%
playoffs vs bos 2010 av 26 points 9 brds 7 *** 2 stls 1bl on 45% shooting
playoffs vs orlando he averaged 38 pts 8as 8 brds 1 st 1 bl on 48% shooting
in finals bron averaged 22ps 7as 7 brds 1st on 35% shooting

durant averaged 25 points 7 boards 2as and 1 bl on 35% shooting..

If kd aint scorin efficiently, he's nothing offensively..in fact,Bron's worst series (Finals) is still better than Durant's playoffs last year

WadeKobe
09-16-2010, 11:23 AM
I don't get why this is a "good article," lol.

Look, I get that LeBron is a selfish ******* and that a lot of people are just now finally getting that. I understand that they have to vent it in strange ways and act like they've somehow been "fooled" for so long when in reality it's always been this way.

However, to say LeBron shoulda been playing for the USA team!?!?!?

What other top-tier star (Wade/Kobe/James) went and played? None.

What other Top Player (Durant, Melo, Howard, CP3, DWill, Duncan) went and played? Durant.

The fact is this is a scrub year and a lot of the other teams played their scrub guys also. Durant was the only player of his caliber on the court. Of course he tore through it in a way no one else ever has. Of course they won. Of course he was MVP. It hardly means anything.

What's more, did this writer ever consider the new contract? It's extremely possible that Wade, James, and Bosh were not even allowed to go play due to their contract. Or maybe Riley simply asked that they not. Maybe Miami didn't want to risk injury to any of those three before the season. Kudos to OKC for doing what probably no other team would have done.

But let's be honest. Why would LeBron take the summer away from his friends and teammates who he's trying to focus and work with to win an NBA Championship to play against a bunch of international scrubs and with a bunch of USA players who aren't on his level?

Let's think of the USA team he played on. Kobe, Wade, CP3, Bosh. This team had... Russel Westbrook and Kevin Love? Look, they're good players, but they don't stack up to the USA Team that LeBron played for. Not even close.

The comparison set up by this article is a bunch of bunk.

DQL
09-16-2010, 01:09 PM
this is getting waaay out of hand. Durant had a good summer. All of a sudden he's better than the 2-time defending NBA MVP? Wait a minute what exactly has Durant done? If he hadn't had Westbrook as his sidekick the Lakers would have swept Thunder like dust and this debate might have never existed

Durant had a good World tournament. OK. But remember he's clearly the best scorer on the team and plays were run through him most of the time. If Lebron plays on this 'team B' instead of with Kobe, Wade, Melo and other best basketball players in the world he will easily drop 40 every game

Like Lebron once said he would win the scoring title every year if he wanted to and that's no joke. He just loves to make plays for teammates.

Ebbs
09-16-2010, 01:23 PM
There is no debate lmao....

justinnum1
09-16-2010, 01:33 PM
I am forced to wonder how the hell you cope with your own ways.

**** you.

:clap: Cool story bro.
;)

Ovratd1up
09-16-2010, 06:45 PM
I'm not that type of poster either. You're just such a blatant *******. I couldn't be you. But whatever.

footballer2369
09-16-2010, 07:00 PM
:confused:

JordansBulls
09-16-2010, 08:29 PM
Why soo many of these lately?

LBJ06
09-17-2010, 01:59 AM
Bron proved that he gets his issue off overall still vs elite teams

Bron averaged 31pts and 9assists on 50 percent shooting vs lakers last year
playoffs vs bos 2008 27pts 7as 6brd 2stls and 1 blk on 35%
playoffs vs bos 2010 av 26 points 9 brds 7 *** 2 stls 1bl on 45% shooting
playoffs vs orlando he averaged 38 pts 8as 8 brds 1 st 1 bl on 48% shooting
in finals bron averaged 22ps 7as 7 brds 1st on 35% shooting

durant averaged 25 points 7 boards 2as and 1 bl on 35% shooting..

If kd aint scorin efficiently, he's nothing offensively..in fact,Bron's worst series (Finals) is still better than Durant's playoffs last year

Well said bro. Durant was not even the reason why the Thunders are giving the Lakers a hard time in the playoffs.

How can you compare the 2 time MVP to a player who is not even the best on his team come playoff time.

Durant
25.0 points, 7.7 Reb. , 2.3 assists
on .350 FG%

Russell Westbrook
20.5 points 6.0 Reb. , 6.0 assists
on .473 FG%


-------------------------------------

LeBron

Playoffs (09-10)
29.1 points, 9.3 Reb., 7.6 assists - team leader on all categories (including blocks and steals)
on .502 FG%

First Playoff run - AGE: 21 - Compare this to Durant's numbers above
30.8 points, 8.1 Reb., 5.8 assists
on .476 FG %

Career Playoff Averages
29.3 points, 8.4 Reb, 7.3 assists
on .459 FG%

It's Not even Close

LBJ06
09-17-2010, 02:27 AM
How can you compare the 2 time MVP to a player who is not even the best on his team come playoff time.

Durant
25.0 points, 7.7 Reb. , 2.3 assists
on .350 FG%

Russell Westbrook
20.5 points 6.0 Reb. , 6.0 assists
on .473 FG%


-------------------------------------

LeBron

Playoffs (09-10)
29.1 points, 9.3 Reb., 7.6 assists - team leader on all categories (including blocks and steals)
on .502 FG%

First Playoff run - AGE: 21 - Compare this to Durant's numbers above
30.8 points, 8.1 Reb., 5.8 assists
on .476 FG %

Career Playoff Averages
29.3 points, 8.4 Reb, 7.3 assists
on .459 FG%

It's Not even Close

TheDagger
09-20-2010, 01:27 AM
The stupidity displayed by some of these Miami fans is quite astounding.

LeBron played the Washington Wizards and the washed up Detroit Pistons. Durant played the 3X defending WCC's and eventual repeat NBA champions.

LeBron has played just as poorly vs championship teams in the playoffs as Durant did at 21 years old.

LeBron shot 35% from the field but he also shot 68% from the line whereas Durant was at 90%. Durant had a much higher TS% but you dismiss that because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.

Durant at 21 is a more efficient scorer than LeBron will ever be just as LeBron will always be a better passer than Durant. The difference is that Durant can fit in any system where as LeBron has to be in a ME FIRST aka on the ball 100% of the time system which fails in the playoffs 9/10 times, the 1 being Wade in 2006.


You want to talk about LeBron's assist numbers? List the assist numbers of his team, or better yet the starting point guard. Exactly the numbers are garbage due to the fact LeBron essentially makes his PG an undersized shooting guard who's always off the ball.

DODGERS&LAKERS
09-20-2010, 02:01 AM
the stupidity displayed by some of these miami fans is quite astounding.

Lebron played the washington wizards and the washed up detroit pistons. Durant played the 3x defending wcc's and eventual repeat nba champions.

Lebron has played just as poorly vs championship teams in the playoffs as durant did at 21 years old.

Lebron shot 35% from the field but he also shot 68% from the line whereas durant was at 90%. Durant had a much higher ts% but you dismiss that because it doesn't fit in with your agenda.

Durant at 21 is a more efficient scorer than lebron will ever be just as lebron will always be a better passer than durant. The difference is that durant can fit in any system where as lebron has to be in a me first aka on the ball 100% of the time system which fails in the playoffs 9/10 times, the 1 being wade in 2006.


You want to talk about lebron's assist numbers? List the assist numbers of his team, or better yet the starting point guard. Exactly the numbers are garbage due to the fact lebron essentially makes his pg an undersized shooting guard who's always off the ball.

qft