PDA

View Full Version : Is Melo a top 5-7 player in the NBA?



Pages : [1] 2

JordansBulls
09-09-2010, 11:57 PM
Is Melo a top 5-7 player in the NBA?

still1ballin
09-10-2010, 12:00 AM
Yes

Avenged
09-10-2010, 12:02 AM
He's my #7.

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. CP3
6. Dwight Howard
7. Melo

Sadds The Gr8
09-10-2010, 12:02 AM
He's not top 5...but he's top 10.

tredigs
09-10-2010, 12:07 AM
No, I'd take:

Lebron
Wade
Durant
Kobe
Cp3
D. Will
D. Howard
Nowitzki

...and if it's this year, Duncan over him as well.

He's sickly clutch and a pretty amazing scorer in general, but he's not as efficient as I'd like and the guy seems indifferent on the defensive end; which kills his value.

His knack for always being injured ~15 games a year doesn't help his value, either. Depending on what you're looking for in a player, he's probably around the 9th to 13th best player in the league.

LTBaByyy
09-10-2010, 12:12 AM
Kobe
Lebron
Durant
Wade
Cp3
D. Will
D. Howard
Nowitzki
Melo

So #9, That seems right

SteveNash
09-10-2010, 12:17 AM
Nope, not in the top 10.

jackdawson
09-10-2010, 12:17 AM
1. LeBron
2. Wade
3. Durant
4. Kobe
5. CP3
6. Melo
7. Dwight
Yes, pretty much...

justinnum1
09-10-2010, 12:18 AM
Wade
Kobe
Lebron
Durant
Dwight

Anthony is somewhere between 6 and 10.

Ovratd1up
09-10-2010, 12:23 AM
No, not really close. He's a good scorer that shoots a lot. Everything else about his game is average. This is not the definition of a top player in the NBA.


As for where they stand right now, I have Wade, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, Dwight, Yao, Paul above him definitely, and Deron, Nash, and Roy slightly above him.

Shahrose
09-10-2010, 12:28 AM
lol i like how the Heat fans have Wade>Kobe
i can understand LBJ>Kobe, though i disagree, but Wade? lol

this is mine

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Wade
5. CP3
6. Dwight Howard
7. Melo

llemon
09-10-2010, 12:29 AM
Matter of opinion.

Ovratd1up
09-10-2010, 12:31 AM
lol i like how the Heat fans have Wade>Kobe
i can understand LBJ>Kobe, though i disagree, but Wade? lol

this is mine

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Wade
5. CP3
6. Dwight Howard
7. Melo

If you look at it objectively, Wade is better than Kobe.

black1605
09-10-2010, 12:31 AM
Melo is top seven without question.

dnewguy
09-10-2010, 12:34 AM
If he's not top 5 then Durrant dont belong in top 5, all both can do is score and nothing else....Melo has also won scoring champ.

1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Kobe
4. Howard
5. Nowitski
6. Gasol
7. Cp3
8&9&10 Durant, Melo and D will

Baller1
09-10-2010, 12:35 AM
He's my #7.

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Deron
6. CP3
7. Dwight Howard
8. Melo
9. Duncan

Almost right, I'd just tweak it a bit.

dnewguy
09-10-2010, 12:35 AM
lol i like how the Heat fans have Wade>Kobe
i can understand LBJ>Kobe, though i disagree, but Wade? lol

this is mine

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Wade
5. CP3
6. Dwight Howard
7. Melo

Well, Wade is better than Kobe.

Avenged
09-10-2010, 12:42 AM
Almost right, I'd just tweak it a bit.

I have a hard time putting Deron ahead of CP3. Last season yes, since CP3 only played in 45 games, but when he's healthy he beats Deron in practically every statistical category.

tredigs
09-10-2010, 12:43 AM
No, not really close. He's a good scorer that shoots a lot. Everything else about his game is average. This is not the definition of a top player in the NBA.


As for where they stand right now, I have Wade, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, Dwight, Yao, Paul above him definitely, and Deron, Nash, and Roy slightly above him.

If you look at it objectively, Wade is better than Kobe.

Not to get off tangent, but agreed on the Wade comment to an extent; though it is so close that it can't be considered "objective". Kobe's versatility, and the fact that he has literally no weaknesses + an incredible work ethic (along with ridiculous durability) make it a very subjective argument.

Regardless, it's far from an "lol" comment to say that Wade>Kobe, and true/knowledgeable fans recognize this.

PS: You forgot Durant on your rankings. If you didn't forget and you just consider all of those guys better than him, then please explain the reason, because he is unarguably top 8 in the league - and arguably top 3 (I have him 4th now, and could be as high as an arguable 2nd by the end of this season).

RulerSlick
09-10-2010, 12:54 AM
Hell NO

_KB24_
09-10-2010, 12:54 AM
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Bron
4. Melo
5. Dwight
6. Durant
7. CP3


Yeah, without a doubt. He's arguably the best pure offensive player in the game and is only getting better. A healthy season from and the Nuggets securing the 2nd seed in the West if he stays can get him serious recognition for the MVP. Don't forget many of us had him in the forefront for the award in the beginning of last year.

Avenged
09-10-2010, 12:57 AM
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Bron
4. Melo
5. Dwight
6. Durant
7. CP3


Yeah, without a doubt. He's arguably the best pure offensive player in the game and is only getting better. A healthy season from and the Nuggets securing the 2nd seed in the West if he stays can get him serious recognition for the MVP. Don't forget many of us had him in the forefront for the award in the beginning of last year.

I agree, although I don't think he will be winning the MVP anytime soon.

But the Nuggets ended their season on a soft note, which certainly brings down value to a player even if most people don't want to admit it.

If the Nuggets have a great season and once again go deep into the playoffs, this guy will be making the majorities top 5.

Tqafg96
09-10-2010, 01:05 AM
This is ridiculous, have you guys forgotten what this guy can do?
Top 3 or 4 at least.
1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Wade or Melo
I find it ridiculous that your judging how good he is based on ******** efficiency ratings and stuff like that.

tredigs
09-10-2010, 01:06 AM
I agree, although I don't think he will be winning the MVP anytime soon.

But the Nuggets ended their season on a soft note, which certainly brings down value to a player even if most people don't want to admit it.

If the Nuggets have a great season and once again go deep into the playoffs, this guy will be making the majorities top 5.

He's had some pretty fantastic casts around him his entire career, and he's only made it out of round 1 once. For people who just look at raw stats and an impressive offensive player, then he looks pretty good.

But if you're into advanced stats, durability + work ethic, defense, and players who don't consistently struggle to get their (veteran, highly talented) teams out of the first round, he doesn't quite stack up so well to me.

He's Dominique Wilkins 2.0 - minus the highlight reel dunks. And like Wilkins, he's impressive, but not a top 5 player.

_KB24_
09-10-2010, 01:15 AM
He's had some pretty fantastic casts around him his entire career, and he's only made it out of round 1 once. For people who just look at raw stats and an impressive offensive player, then he looks pretty good.

But if you're into advanced stats, durability + work ethic, defense, and players who don't consistently struggle to get their (veteran, highly talented) teams out of the first round, he doesn't quite stack up so well to me.

He's Dominique Wilkins 2.0 - minus the highlight reel dunks. And like Wilkins, he's impressive, but not a top 5 player.

Fantastic? Seems like a stretch. He's only been on a contending team ever since Billups has joined. And he's only lost with HCA in a series once, which was this year in a very difficult environment for the Nuggets, playing without their coach and dealing with injuries.

beasted86
09-10-2010, 01:18 AM
All better than Anthony: Bryant, James, Wade, Howard, Paul, Durant, Nowitzki.

I would put Anthony in the top 10 though.

Avenged
09-10-2010, 01:21 AM
He's had some pretty fantastic casts around him his entire career, and he's only made it out of round 1 once. For people who just look at raw stats and an impressive offensive player, then he looks pretty good.

But if you're into advanced stats, durability + work ethic, defense, and players who don't consistently struggle to get their (veteran, highly talented) teams out of the first round, he doesn't quite stack up so well to me.

He's Dominique Wilkins 2.0 - minus the highlight reel dunks. And like Wilkins, he's impressive, but not a top 5 player.

Making it out of the 1st round once shouldn't be held against him. He's had to face teams who were better than his, Spurs/Lakers. And last year, we all know the Nuggets had their own set of problems to players and their coach.

He's exactly on my top 7, borderline 8 if you must. But Melo was certainly at the top of many people's lists during their long playoff run, especially considering he established himself as an underrated defender during that season.

meloman1592
09-10-2010, 01:22 AM
this is crazy...melo is 100%positively in the top 5 and there are questions about him being top 10???...you guys are kidding. if your arguement is that all he can do is score than i dont want to hear the name kevin durant in the top 10 either because hes just a 6ft11 ray allen. Dwight Howard is not a better basketball player than carmelo anthony and you all know it. hes athletic beast that has great timing on blocked shots. Dirk is a 7ft shooter and if your knock on melo is that he plays no D then get dirk out this top 5 convo as well...so there goes dwight and dirk...now onto cp3...i love the guy hes the best pg in the L but i dont think you can call him better until hes brought his team to the playoffs in consecutive years as melo has...deron???cmon he wouldnt be in this top 5 argument had it not been for this last postseason. Everyone deep down knows it looks like this
1:Lebron/kobe
2:Lebron/kobe
3:Wade
4:Melo
5:Cp3/Durant/dwight toss up
and dont forget how just how every1 is blowing durant right now saying hes sooooo great, thats how everyone was for cp3 a few years ago and now hes a afterthought?? cant believe some people

Kashmir13579
09-10-2010, 01:26 AM
right at #7

Angel2Maverick
09-10-2010, 01:31 AM
1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Dwight
6. D-Will
7. Cp3
8. Dirk
9. Melo

I'd say top 10

COBY KARL
09-10-2010, 01:34 AM
1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Melo
6. CP3
7. Dwight Howard

mynameismo
09-10-2010, 01:34 AM
He's somewhere between 6-10.
So top 10 for sure.

Ovratd1up
09-10-2010, 01:35 AM
Not to get off tangent, but agreed on the Wade comment to an extent; though it is so close that it can't be considered "objective". Kobe's versatility, and the fact that he has literally no weaknesses + an incredible work ethic (along with ridiculous durability) make it a very subjective argument.

Regardless, it's far from an "lol" comment to say that Wade>Kobe, and true/knowledgeable fans recognize this.

Yeah no one can deny that, and Wade's limited style of play might be exposed playing next to another dominant ball-handler and slasher in Lebron. But in the last couple years Wade's impact has on the court has been much greater than Kobe's (in my opinion). I'd say Kobe's only flaw, and it is rather sizeable, is that he tries to do too much too often even now with very efficient teammates.


PS: You forgot Durant on your rankings. If you didn't forget and you just consider all of those guys better than him, then please explain the reason, because he is unarguably top 8 in the league - and arguably top 3 (I have him 4th now, and could be as high as an arguable 2nd by the end of this season).


He's basically a good scorer on a bad team, literally sucks at everything else... nah, just forgot to add him in. I'd put him in the top four as well.

tredigs
09-10-2010, 01:36 AM
Fantastic? Seems like a stretch. He's only been on a contending team ever since Billups has joined. And he's only lost with HCA in a series once, which was this year in a very difficult environment for the Nuggets, playing without their coach and dealing with injuries.

He's played with some pretty g'damn good PG's most seasons (Andre Miller, Iverson, Billups), and has always had strong bigs as well (prime Camby, Nene + K-Mart), and solid role players like Afflalo and J.R. Smith, etc. Those are teams that should get out of the first round if they have a legitimate top 5 player in the league on their team. He may have "only lost with HCA once", but being that he's only been out of the first round ONE TIME, what does that mean exactly? That he's won with HCA twice? So he's 2-1... not too impressive.

He's a really good player, no doubt about it. But there are things... lack of leadership, not the most efficient scorer, weak defense, injury troubles, etc. that just leave him out of the best of the best. And that's why his teams won't make it to an NBA finals.



Yeah no one can deny that, and Wade's limited style of play might be exposed playing next to another dominant ball-handler and slasher in Lebron. But in the last couple years Wade's impact has on the court has been much greater than Kobe's (in my opinion). I'd say Kobe's only flaw, and it is rather sizeable, is that he tries to do too much too often even now with very efficient teammates.



He's basically a good scorer on a bad team, literally sucks at everything else... nah, just forgot to add him in. I'd put him in the top four as well.
Yup, hit it.

Wade>You
09-10-2010, 01:38 AM
It's pretty close.

barreleffact
09-10-2010, 01:40 AM
If he's not top 5 then Durrant dont belong in top 5, all both can do is score and nothing else....Melo has also won scoring champ.

1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Kobe
4. Howard
5. Nowitski
6. Gasol
7. Cp3
8&9&10 Durant, Melo and D will

no he hasnt. hes never even broke 30 a game, and durant does everything melo does but more efficiently except he turns the ball over .3 times more per game and has .4 less assists per game. everything else is higher.

my top:
1 kobe
2 lebron
3 wade
4 durant

2nd tier
5 cp3
6 dwight howard

then it gets debateable
deron melo dirk or gasol all could fill this spot 7-10. i take melo as a 1st option but obviously gasol if i was going for a 2nd option.

5ass
09-10-2010, 01:59 AM
yes i have
lebron
kobe
wade
durant
cp3
dwight
melo

xBLAMEITON24x
09-10-2010, 02:01 AM
1 kobe
2 lebron
3 wade
4 durant
5 howard
6 melo
7 gasol

Schmiggy
09-10-2010, 02:05 AM
1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Dwight
6. CP3
7. Williams
8. Melo

Top 10 for sure. Id argue he could be as high as 6 even.

abe_froman
09-10-2010, 02:59 AM
nope

Jewelz0376
09-10-2010, 03:07 AM
1)kobe
2)lebron
3)wade
4)durant
5)d12
6)dwill
7)cp3
8)melo

Almost

- Melo needs to improve his defense...He's an average defender at best...He's gotten better, but every1 I ranked ahead of him play better D
- He also needs to become a better facilitator

He's already a pretty good rebounder for his position, but I think he could def be an 8 rpg + guy

Law25
09-10-2010, 03:22 AM
Kobe
Wade
Lebron
Howard
CP3
Melo/ Dirk
Durant/ Rose/ D.Will

Other than the fact i think Kobe is better. I just can't put Lebron ahead of Wade seeing that he left to go join him. If he plans to take over Wade's team the team chemistry will be none existant. I also think if dirk and melo switch teams ther will be no difference, and I believe Rose is better than Durant the same way CP3 is better than Melo but time will have to prove that. At this time there interchangable.

alencp3
09-10-2010, 04:17 AM
No, I'd take:

Lebron
Wade
Durant
Kobe
Cp3
D. Will
D. Howard
Nowitzki

...and if it's this year, Duncan over him as well.

He's sickly clutch and a pretty amazing scorer in general, but he's not as efficient as I'd like and the guy seems indifferent on the defensive end; which kills his value.

His knack for always being injured ~15 games a year doesn't help his value, either. Depending on what you're looking for in a player, he's probably around the 9th to 13th best player in the league.

:clap:

nyyfan4life
09-10-2010, 04:40 AM
Top 10 are as followed:

LeBron
Howard
Wade
Kobe
CP3
Durant
Dirk
Duncan
D-Will
Roy/Carmello/Gasol

kArSoN RyDaH
09-10-2010, 05:46 AM
i accidently voted no but he is top 10. i say hes top 7.


heres my 7


kobe
lebron
durant
wade
dwight
cp3
melo

D Roses Bulls
09-10-2010, 06:03 AM
He's my #7.

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. CP3
6. Dwight Howard
7. Melo

sorry, but D williams is better then CP3

TebowForeva
09-10-2010, 06:45 AM
duh wtf

Mochalman
09-10-2010, 07:17 AM
kobe
lebron
wade
howard
melo
durant
deron

mikantsass
09-10-2010, 07:21 AM
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Chris Paul (Healthy)
Melo
Durant
Howard

Top 5

oballerc75
09-10-2010, 07:33 AM
LMFAO at the ppl saying DIRK is better than melo!!!! i think if melo can become a better playmaker for his teammates and play defense more consistantly, he can move into top 5, but for now, he is top 7-10

Khalifa21
09-10-2010, 07:36 AM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Chris Paul
5. Carmelo Anthony
6. Kevin Durant
7. Dwight Howard

Antipod
09-10-2010, 07:48 AM
Maybe yes. maybe no ... 3rd SF definitely

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 08:06 AM
no he is not. I posted a couple threads regarding this a month or so ago. He takes more attempts per possession than anyone, in a system that is always top 5 in pace essentially. He is a gifted scorer, and with 10 seconds or less in the game I would be hard pressed to find someone better, but he probably the 3rd best SF, and not a top 7 player in my opinion. Top 10? Most likely

goose15
09-10-2010, 08:30 AM
Yes, without a doudt

GMEN4EVER
09-10-2010, 08:45 AM
I voted for him in the poll, but not with conviction. It's a very debatable topic. He's an incredibly gifted scorer, but he's not overly efficient and he doesn't do anything else at a very high level. Every player has his flaws, and it's really hard to say if he's better than some other elite players or not. I'll just say that it's close, and very very possible that he is a top 5-7 player.

The Miami Cheat
09-10-2010, 08:47 AM
he's deff top 7

Faneik
09-10-2010, 08:52 AM
he's top 20

and i'm not hating

ok... just a little bit

Iggz53
09-10-2010, 08:57 AM
Don't think he's Top 10.

LeBron
Wade
Nowitzki
Kobe
CP3
D-Will
Roy
Duncan
Dwight
Durant
Gasol
Yao

are all above him imo, and I may argue a couple others as well. I think he's ridiculously overrated.

MELO 15
09-10-2010, 08:59 AM
D12 is the exact opposite of carmelo, except melo plays better d, than D12 plays offense. People rank him so high for what? He is still offensively challenged, at least Melo has gotten better defensively to were he is decent. A top player to me is a guy u can trust to put the ball in there hands and say, "Go win us the game" and have confidence that he can, and there a few guys in this league that can do this "Melo, kobe, wade, bron bron, durant, d will cp3 and roy, trying to ease his way in is d rose, other than that, i wouldn't trust anyone else, so yes Melo would be on the list of top 5 for me,not being a homer either. D12 is not what u would call a basketball player, he is a freak of nature athleticly. So stop putting d12 up there in your top 5 people, please!

JordansBulls
09-10-2010, 09:05 AM
Fantastic? Seems like a stretch. He's only been on a contending team ever since Billups has joined. And he's only lost with HCA in a series once, which was this year in a very difficult environment for the Nuggets, playing without their coach and dealing with injuries.

True, but the Jazz had injuries as well and were missing 2 starters.

Iggz53
09-10-2010, 09:11 AM
D12 is the exact opposite of carmelo, except melo plays better d, than D12 plays offense. People rank him so high for what? He is still offensively challenged, at least Melo has gotten better defensively to were he is decent. A top player to me is a guy u can trust to put the ball in there hands and say, "Go win us the game" and have confidence that he can, and there a few guys in this league that can do this "Melo, kobe, wade, bron bron, durant, d will cp3 and roy, trying to ease his way in is d rose, other than that, i wouldn't trust anyone else, so yes Melo would be on the list of top 5 for me,not being a homer either. D12 is not what u would call a basketball player, he is a freak of nature athleticly. So stop putting d12 up there in your top 5 people, please!

Melo doesn't play defense, PERIOD. Let's get this point straight, he is absolutely worthless on D.

MELO 15
09-10-2010, 09:20 AM
Your wrong on that one, your probably going on what u hear, because, if u had watched him when he first got in the league to this point, than you'd know that he has gotten better. Stop going on what u hear, because for u to make a coment like that is rediculous, did u watch the WCF when they played the lakers, he wanted to guard kobe, and did a good to decent job, Im not saying he's a great defender, Im just saying he has improved.

Iggz53
09-10-2010, 09:26 AM
No, I don't go by what I hear. I watch games and he can't play defense. To say that his defense is better than Dwight's offense is ludicrous, considering Dwight scores 20 ppg on 60% TS%.

But since you're the kind of person who makes assumptions about people and uses it as argument, I'm going to say that considering your name is based off of Melo, you will go to great lengths to defend him.

xbrackattackx
09-10-2010, 09:27 AM
I think so I got

Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Melo
Durant
Dwight
Dirk/Gasol

Testaverde16
09-10-2010, 09:28 AM
its definitely debatable, but i'd rather have him then a lot of the other guys on his level.

MELO 15
09-10-2010, 09:44 AM
If u had the strength of a dwight howard of course even u would have a good fg pct, but thats exactly my point, u think they hired patrick ewing to work with him for no reason? take him away from the paint and he's no good offensively, he even admitted to being like a robot offensively, meaning he's a stiff, And don't get it twisted, i know Melo's D can use some work, if u look at my post I even said it was decent, decent means it can get better, but I will also admit when someone is better than he is, I have no problem with that, my argument here is that Melo has shown more impovement on D than D12 has shown on offense. And that your making a statement about Melo wich isn't true, now had u said 3 or 4 years ago about him not havin no d I wouldn't even argue, but your wrong here.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 09:50 AM
Ask this question again if he gets traded to the Bulls......lol

Iggz53
09-10-2010, 09:54 AM
Ask this question again if he gets traded to the Bulls......lol

It wouldn't change anything in my mind because he wouldn't put us over the top. He has the perfect surrounding cast in Denver and can't do much with it in the postseason.

Mile High Champ
09-10-2010, 09:54 AM
Melo has fallen off big time over the last year. Its not entirely his fault though. Players around him are just stimply getter better and better, especially at his position. I do think that Melo tends to dissapear when it matters most and that hurts his cause in my mind for being a top 5 player in the NBA.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 09:57 AM
It wouldn't change anything in my mind because he wouldn't put us over the top. He has the perfect surrounding cast in Denver and can't do much with it in the postseason.

Thats because you are one of the few good ones :cool:

Avenged
09-10-2010, 10:05 AM
sorry, but D williams is better then CP3

How so? Even though CP3 played about 20 games less than Deron, his stat line is still a bit more than his.

If you take CP3s stats from the year before and compare them to Deron's this past season, CP3 is the clear better player. I'm not going to argue that Deron "passed" Chris Paul this past season since he really didn't play much, but when healthy CP3 is the better player. His PER in 08-09 was 30 compared to Deron's 20 this year. TS% was lead by Chris along with win shares.

MELO 15
09-10-2010, 10:10 AM
It wouldn't change anything in my mind because he wouldn't put us over the top. He has the perfect surrounding cast in Denver and can't do much with it in the postseason.

What perfect are u talking about, no legitimate center, players who stay on the bench because of injuries, an aging pg who cant keep up with the cp3's and the d will's, a child in JR, whose also erratic and takes bad shots, what perfect are u talking about? You'll only appreciate him when he's on your team, if u do get him don't jump on the band wagon and say you've changed your mind about him, and as for mild high champ, when has melo not come through when they needed him, he is arguably the best clutch performer in the game, look at his 4th qtr stats in points category

Avenged
09-10-2010, 10:11 AM
It wouldn't change anything in my mind because he wouldn't put us over the top. He has the perfect surrounding cast in Denver and can't do much with it in the postseason.

Probably not, simply because of what the Heat did this past off-season, but the Bulls would no doubt get better. Even though many don't feel he's top 7, he definitely is a top 10 player. Rose/Melo duo would be scary if Rose continues to develop and then you add a top 7 PF and the Bulls look impressive.

Not many posters will admit it since many dislike the Bulls fan base, but in my opinion an ECF appearance is possible.

MELO 15
09-10-2010, 10:14 AM
Probably not, simply because of what the Heat did this past off-season, but the Bulls would no doubt get better. Even though many don't feel he's top 7, he definitely is a top 10 player. Rose/Melo duo would be scary if Rose continues to develop and then you add a top 7 PF and the Bulls look impressive.

Not many posters will admit it since many dislike the Bulls fan base, but in my opinion an ECF appearance is possible.

Heres a man that knows his basketball

daleja424
09-10-2010, 10:17 AM
somewhere in the 7-12 range depending on personal preference IMO. He desont do enough of anything besides scoring to be a top tier player imo... He is not terribly efficient, he does not make plays for others, he is not a strong defensive player, and he doesnt bring the intangibles to the game IMO.

Faneik
09-10-2010, 10:23 AM
I think so I got

Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Melo
Durant
Dwight
Dirk/Gasol

Durant is already better than Melo.

He's better and younger.

MELO 15
09-10-2010, 10:25 AM
somewhere in the 7-12 range depending on personal preference IMO. He desont do enough of anything besides scoring to be a top tier player imo... He is not terribly efficient, he does not make plays for others, he is not a strong defensive player, and he doesnt bring the intangibles to the game IMO.

Melo does make players for, it doesn't show on the stat sheet because players don't convert, and what intangibles are u talking about

xbrackattackx
09-10-2010, 10:28 AM
Durant is already better than Melo.

He's better and younger.

Thank You for telling me my opinion!


FO!

MELO 15
09-10-2010, 10:31 AM
Durant is already better than Melo.

He's better and younger.

why, because he had a better year? u can't compare the two, Melo has been playing for 7 years, where as durant 2 years, Melo first year in the league he took his team to the playoffs, can't say the same for durant, u can't base 1 year that durant had, and say he's better than melo, now after duants 7 years, compare both than come holla at me.

xbrackattackx
09-10-2010, 10:32 AM
why, because he had a better year? u can't compare the two, Melo has been playing for 7 years, where as durant 2 years, Melo first year in the league he took his team to the playoffs, can't say the same for durant, u can't base 1 year that durant had, and say he's better than melo, now after duants 7 years, compare both than come holla at me.

Thank you!

THE GIPPER
09-10-2010, 10:42 AM
Melo has fallen off big time over the last year. Its not entirely his fault though. Players around him are just stimply getter better and better, especially at his position. I do think that Melo tends to dissapear when it matters most and that hurts his cause in my mind for being a top 5 player in the NBA.

So like when he averages 30.7pts and 8.7rebs per game in the playoffs he's dissapearing?

xbrackattackx
09-10-2010, 10:43 AM
So like when he averages 30.7pts and 8.7rebs per game in the playoffs he's dissapearing?

Yea I would hate to see if he showed up...:)

Pierzynski4Prez
09-10-2010, 10:49 AM
Funny, if this thread was created a week ago before the Bulls rumors, I bet quite a few of you would have him ranked higher than you do now.

But since he is rumored to go to the bulls (PSD's #1 enemy), all of a sudden he is hardly top 10 if that. Makes me laugh.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 10:49 AM
I think Melo has more than proven hes in the 4-8 range.

But going foward, there might be a dozen or so players i would start a team with over Melo.

Niro
09-10-2010, 10:53 AM
he is #7 on my list, top 10 for sure

tcav701
09-10-2010, 10:53 AM
Funny, if this thread was created a week ago before the Bulls rumors, I bet quite a few of you would have him ranked higher than you do now.

But since he is rumored to go to the bulls (PSD's #1 enemy), all of a sudden he is hardly top 10 if that. Makes me laugh.

Kinda like Noah was a top 3 center before he was involved in the same rumor.

Don't start with me today, all the hate you fans get is a product of the consitent, uneducated, homer posts by bulls fans.

And please don't think I'm calling YOU out, because I think about 75% of your personal posts are good ones with the rest being blatant homerism. But I think the good Bulls fans would gain alot of credibility if they fixed their own homers.

markbutter
09-10-2010, 10:57 AM
I'd go with what a number of others have posted. . somewhere between 6-10, but closer to 10 than 6.

I just don't think if you're a top 5 player that in round 1 with homecourt advantage and the other team's starting center and probably 3rd best player on the team you out with an injury for the rest of the series lose the series 4-2 (talking about nuggs vs. jazz 2010). Under those circumstances, I think you should win or at worst make it a 7 game series. They got beat by an average of nearly 8 pts a game.

He shoots alot (granted that's his role), plays horrible defense and at 6'8" 220, should average more than 6 rebounds given the pace the nuggets usually try to play at.

Boo2u
09-10-2010, 11:08 AM
It's hard to do a pure ranking, 1-7 or 1-10, because different players bring different skills to the table. I'm a much bigger fan of grouping by tiers, and I'd put Mello in the 2nd tier of players.

That said, I think he falls just outside the 5-7 range... I think there are about 5-7 players in that first tier, and Mello doesn't make the cut. But he's certainly in the next batch, say 7-12. And he's still young and could improve to move into the first tier... may not have reached his ceiling yet.

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 11:12 AM
why, because he had a better year? u can't compare the two, Melo has been playing for 7 years, where as durant 2 years, Melo first year in the league he took his team to the playoffs, can't say the same for durant, u can't base 1 year that durant had, and say he's better than melo, now after duants 7 years, compare both than come holla at me.

Durant is clearly better than Melo right now. You don't base player ratings of current players on career achievement. And Denver going to the playoffs had just as much to do with getting a prime Andre Miller, healthy Camby, a peak year out of nowhere by Voshon Leonard, as it did getting Melo. Not taking anything away from Melo, he was in the argument with LeBron for ROY. But that in itself should show us something. Melo hasn't even improved all that much since his first 2 years.
Durant, on the other hand, turned a team that traded everything away and went young into a contender in 2 years. TWO. That kind of transends what their careers have become. Melo came in, ready to play, to a team that added pieces for their future right away, ready to contribute. Durant came onto a team that was terrible, young, and starting from scratch. He now has the better team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2010&p2=anthoca01&y2=2010

Durant is a far superior offensive player when taking into account efficient scoring. He is a better rebounder. His offensive contributions blow away Melo, and he is a better defender. Add to the fact that we are in a thread debating whether Melo is a top 7 player, while Durant is nipping at the heals of Wade and Kobe currently, if not with them.

To anyone who would like to point out Durant's struggles in his first playoff series, take a gander at Melo's first trip to the playoffs. PER below 10, shot well under 40% eFG, and had a negative win share.

97NYer
09-10-2010, 11:20 AM
LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Durant
Dwight
Melo
Cp3

Pierzynski4Prez
09-10-2010, 11:23 AM
Kinda like Noah was a top 3 center before he was involved in the same rumor.

Don't start with me today, all the hate you fans get is a product of the consitent, uneducated, homer posts by bulls fans.

And please don't think I'm calling YOU out, because I think about 75% of your personal posts are good ones with the rest being blatant homerism. But I think the good Bulls fans would gain alot of credibility if they fixed their own homers.

Having a rough day are we?:rolleyes:

But seriously, I'm with you. Lots of bulls fans who were doing nothing buy hyping up Noah are probably now trying to talk him down. Personally, I've never said Noah was close to top 3. I've stated in the Top C's in the league threads that he does belong around 7 or 8 at best. Hard to be top 5 when you have 0 offensive game.

But the hate comes with having probably the largest following of any team in the NBA forum. We're used to it, but the idiots will still be idiots and we will still probably have our 1,302,593 D Rose threads a week once the season starts.

But there are plenty of people who have so much hate for the Bulls now because of these fools, that they will try to downplay anything that will benefit the bulls, such as Melo.

thescore53
09-10-2010, 11:32 AM
hes top4 , this durant hype is ridicoulous

tcav701
09-10-2010, 11:33 AM
Having a rough day are we?:rolleyes:

But seriously, I'm with you. Lots of bulls fans who were doing nothing buy hyping up Noah are probably now trying to talk him down. Personally, I've never said Noah was close to top 3. I've stated in the Top C's in the league threads that he does belong around 7 or 8 at best. Hard to be top 5 when you have 0 offensive game.

But the hate comes with having probably the largest following of any team in the NBA forum. We're used to it, but the idiots will still be idiots and we will still probably have our 1,302,593 D Rose threads a week once the season starts.

But there are plenty of people who have so much hate for the Bulls now because of these fools, that they will try to downplay anything that will benefit the bulls, such as Melo.

I'll tell you this much, if the Bulls can get Melo with Noah as the centerpiece, it will be a very one-sided deal in favor of your guys.

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 11:36 AM
I'll tell you this much, if the Bulls can get Melo with Noah as the centerpiece, it will be a very one-sided deal in favor of your guys.

If the Bulls give up Noah in a deal for Melo, they are not contenders in my book

D-Block21-Chito
09-10-2010, 11:39 AM
If he's not top 5 then Durrant dont belong in top 5, all both can do is score and nothing else....Melo has also won scoring champ.

1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Kobe
4. Howard
5. Nowitski
6. Gasol
7. Cp3
8&9&10 Durant, Melo and D will


Durant is #2 in the league behind Kobe

tcav701
09-10-2010, 11:41 AM
If the Bulls give up Noah in a deal for Melo, they are not contenders in my book

Thats because you dislike Melo.

Noah is valuable to the Bulls, probably more so than he would be anywhere else. But going into the 11-12 season you can bring in a guy to replace Noah. Alot of centers would join the Bulls next year if they added Melo.

So i agree they wont be a contender this year. But to say you cant get a center within a year to make them a contender is false.

D-Block21-Chito
09-10-2010, 11:46 AM
Tcav701,

The way this bulls team is built noah is a crucial aspect of our game. It's not that easy to replace. I don't want another denver team or pheonix team here in chicago. I would like to stay as the leagues #1 rebounding team. Deng WILL be good with boozer on the team and some 3 point threats. I say we just play with this team and try to get an allstar SG down the road...

JordansBulls
09-10-2010, 11:47 AM
If the Bulls give up Noah in a deal for Melo, they are not contenders in my book

I agree, unless we were able to get Nene in return.

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 11:47 AM
Thats because you dislike Melo.

Noah is valuable to the Bulls, probably more so than he would be anywhere else. But going into the 11-12 season you can bring in a guy to replace Noah. Alot of centers would join the Bulls next year if they added Melo.

So i agree they wont be a contender this year. But to say you cant get a center within a year to make them a contender is false.

No, its because the Bulls have no interior defense now. You don't replace Noah with many in the league, for the role he plays.
How many teams out there let able centers go? Orlando matched a stupid offer for Gorat for example. Noah has proved he is the heart of the Bull's team, and would rather have his arm cut off than lose. Melo is basically another scoring option for them, and nothing else.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 11:47 AM
Tcav701,

The way this bulls team is built naoh is a crucial aspect of our game. It;s not that easy to replace. I don't want another denver team or pheonix team here in chicago. I would like to stay as the leagues #1 rebounding team. Deng WILL be good will boozer on the team and some 3 point threats. I say we just play with this tema and try to get an allstar SG down the road...

And yet they went for LBJ and Wade?

tcav701
09-10-2010, 11:58 AM
No, its because the Bulls have no interior defense now. You don't replace Noah with many in the league, for the role he plays.
How many teams out there let able centers go? Orlando matched a stupid offer for Gorat for example. Noah has proved he is the heart of the Bull's team, and would rather have his arm cut off than lose. Melo is basically another scoring option for them, and nothing else.

The new trend in the NBA is to take less money to play for a super team.

If the Bulls had a core or Melo, Rose and Boozer, it would be fairly easy to get a decent defensive center to play there. I do not at all underestimate Noah's value to the Bulls but i refuse to believe that adding Melo and a defensive minded center makes them a worse team.

D-Block21-Chito
09-10-2010, 12:10 PM
Tcav,

You have no valid argument. They were free agents. We were trying to add those pieces to complete our pie. Melo cuts our pie in half

tcav701
09-10-2010, 12:13 PM
Tcav,

You have no valid argument. They were free agents. We were trying to add those pieces to complete our pie. Melo cuts our pie in half

Well then you need to call the Bulls front office because from the way things are looking, they disagree with you.

D-Block21-Chito
09-10-2010, 12:19 PM
Not really buddy. They are trying to sign him not trade him. And the arugment you were trying to validate is that the bulls were going after LBJ and wade to be a typical phenox scoring team which is not true because we would have stilll kept noah and gibson. Conversation done

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 12:22 PM
The new trend in the NBA is to take less money to play for a super team.

If the Bulls had a core or Melo, Rose and Boozer, it would be fairly easy to get a decent defensive center to play there. I do not at all underestimate Noah's value to the Bulls but i refuse to believe that adding Melo and a defensive minded center makes them a worse team.

well, finding a defenisve minded center has proven to be a very difficult thing to do. Finding wing scorers with above average efficiency is not as difficult.

thekmp211
09-10-2010, 12:22 PM
No, its because the Bulls have no interior defense now. You don't replace Noah with many in the league, for the role he plays.
How many teams out there let able centers go? Orlando matched a stupid offer for Gorat for example. Noah has proved he is the heart of the Bull's team, and would rather have his arm cut off than lose. Melo is basically another scoring option for them, and nothing else.

thank you. i touched on this in the first thread yesterday, and then marc stein wrote an article saying the same thing. their backup is kurt thomas. it's not 1999. noah/deng for melo/nene, now, thats not a bad looking deal in my book.

some nights, melo is the best scorer in the league. a lot of nights, though, he's a very good scorer that doesn't do a ton of other things. Is he a top 5-10 player? he's probably close.

as for the durant debate, it's over folks sorry. unless durant starts regressing at age 21 he can now solidly be considered a better player than anthony. he hasn't proven himself in the "clutch" like melo has but he can do everything that melo can and more (in some cases), at age 21, at 7 ft, with a 7-5 wingspan. no knock on melo, it's just durant is that scary.

anthony has improved in some of his problem areas but they are still weaknesses. with that said, this is nitpicking a top tier player. the bulls should work hard to acquire him so long as they can soften the blow to their frontcourt and defense.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 12:24 PM
Not really buddy. They are trying to sign him not trade him. And the arugment you were trying to validate is that the bulls were going after LBJ and wade to be a typical phenox scoring team which is not true because we would have stilll kept noah and gibson. Conversation done

So if it turns out to be Noah, Deng, fillers/picks for Melo and Nene you would be upset?

Im too confused to even formulate an argument.

EDIT: and another thing, your style of play is dictated by the coach. Tibbs is not going to run an uptempo team no matter who is on the floor.

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 12:32 PM
So if it turns out to be Noah, Deng, fillers/picks for Melo and Nene you would be upset?

Im too confused to even formulate an argument.

nope. If they get Nene back in return, I would think it makes it much more even.

smith&wesson
09-10-2010, 12:38 PM
mello is underated.


kobe
lebron
wade
durant
mello

cp3 and dwill are right up there too.


so yah mello is a top 7 player no doubt.

Kashmir13579
09-10-2010, 01:10 PM
Thats because you dislike Melo.

Noah is valuable to the Bulls, probably more so than he would be anywhere else. But going into the 11-12 season you can bring in a guy to replace Noah. Alot of centers would join the Bulls next year if they added Melo.

So i agree they wont be a contender this year. But to say you cant get a center within a year to make them a contender is false.

he acts like he does... i think he's lying though. melo is "bad azz", his own words. LOL. he also seems to think melo can't do ANYTHING else but score. p.s hawkeye, i agree that the bulls would be insane to give up noah.

Venomous88
09-10-2010, 01:41 PM
Top 10

1st Tier

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kevin Durant

2nd Tier

5. Dwight Howard
6. Chris Paul
7. Carmelo Anthony

3rd Tier

8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Deron Williams
10. Pau Gasol

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 01:46 PM
he acts like he does... i think he's lying though. melo is "bad azz", his own words. LOL. he also seems to think melo can't do ANYTHING else but score. p.s hawkeye, i agree that the bulls would be insane to give up noah.

I like Melo. I think he is a terrific player. But he is not the elite of the elite. And for that opinion, it is deemed I don't like Melo. Whatever

Carter305
09-10-2010, 01:52 PM
Lmao @ the haters putting durant ovr wade...really?? Is that what the hates come too? Cant wait to see durant win a championship

VinceCarter
09-10-2010, 01:57 PM
I think my list would be:

1. Kobe
2a. LeBron
2b. Wade
4. Durant
5. CP3
6. Dwight
7. Melo? DWill? Dirk?

Rego247
09-10-2010, 02:08 PM
Melo is easily a top 7 player right now.

i cannot believe ppl are sayin hes not a top 10 player in the league.

NYKNYGNYY
09-10-2010, 02:13 PM
Matter of opinion.

this

Venomous88
09-10-2010, 02:14 PM
hes top4 , this durant hype is ridicoulousI agree. The highest he goes is Top 4, but even that is arguable. Too many ESPN heads on this site

the_jon
09-10-2010, 02:37 PM
Let's just say if the Nuggets had drafted Bosh instead, they would be the Raptors.

thekmp211
09-10-2010, 02:44 PM
^ not sure what you even mean by this but it's incorrect.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 02:45 PM
It wouldn't change anything in my mind because he wouldn't put us over the top. He has the perfect surrounding cast in Denver and can't do much with it in the postseason.

This.


If the Bulls give up Noah in a deal for Melo, they are not contenders in my book

This.


I like Melo. I think he is a terrific player. But he is not the elite of the elite. And for that opinion, it is deemed I don't like Melo. Whatever

It's ridiculous how overrated Anthony is. Top 10? No. It's that simple. He's slightly above average efficiency wise, is an average rebounder and passer, and a ****** defender. How does that equal top 10?

James
Wade
Bryant
Howard
Durant
Paul
Nowitzki
Duncan
Gasol
Roy
Pierce
Williams
Nash
Ginobili

Yao (if healthy)

I think are all better. And, i can even make a case where Danny Granger is better.

That puts him at #15 or so. The highest i'd go is 12/13, and he's definitely in the vicinity of top-15. But top 10? Hell no.

Denver-boy
09-10-2010, 02:55 PM
melos a top 5??? Really CP3??? hasnt done shyt!!! overrated...

1: Kobe
2: Lebron
3: Wade
4: Melo
5: Howard.....PERIOD!!!!! durant would be next

so im not even gonna vote this stupid attept to lower Melos value!!! ******** thread.... this thread pisses me off, i really hope melo stays to rip all you haters in half

MELO 15
09-10-2010, 02:57 PM
This.



This.



It's ridiculous how overrated Anthony is. Top 10? No. It's that simple. He's slightly above average efficiency wise, is an average rebounder and passer, and a ****** defender. How does that equal top 10?

James
Wade
Bryant
Howard
Durant
Paul
Nowitzki
Duncan
Gasol
Roy
Pierce
Williams
Nash
Ginobili

Yao (if healthy)

I think are all better. And, i can even make a case where Danny Granger is better.

That puts him at #15 or so. The highest i'd go is 12/13, and he's definitely in the vicinity of top-15. But top 10? Hell no.

That must be some good stuff your smoking

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 02:58 PM
melos a top 5??? Really CP3??? hasnt done shyt!!! overrated...

1: Kobe
2: Lebron
3: Wade
4: Melo
5: Howard.....PERIOD!!!!! durant would be next

so im not even gonna vote this stupid attept to lower Melos value!!! ******** thread.... this thread pisses me off, i really hope melo stays to rip all you haters in half

please explain how Paul is overrated

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 03:01 PM
That must be some good stuff your smoking

You obviously have no stats or anything to back it up, which is why you use comments like this. I can back up my statements if you want.

Rivera
09-10-2010, 03:12 PM
yes

top players in the league NO ORDER

kobe
bron
dwade
durant
dwight howard
melo
cp3
DWill
Dirk
brandon roy

Young24
09-10-2010, 03:26 PM
top 5 are

Kobe
LeBron
Wade
'Melo
Durant

case closed those of you who put cp3, Nowitzki and dwight infront are dumb.

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 03:36 PM
I honestly can't believe there are still fans out there who think Melo is better than Durant at this point

Kashmir13579
09-10-2010, 03:44 PM
I like Melo. I think he is a terrific player. But he is not the elite of the elite. And for that opinion, it is deemed I don't like Melo. Whatever

if you are even in the conversation for top 10, IMO, that makes you elite. maybe not "elite of the elite" :D

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 03:46 PM
if you are even in the conversation for top 10, IMO, that makes you elite. maybe not "elite of the elite" :D

we finally agree on this topic haha
and that is exactly what I was saying. He isn't Monta Ellis chucker here, he is a legit star. But he isn't with the best of the best in the league

Kashmir13579
09-10-2010, 03:46 PM
I honestly can't believe there are still fans out there who think Melo is better than Durant at this point

i think Durant is the best player in the NBA. if he isn't, he will be in a couple years

cmellofan15
09-10-2010, 03:46 PM
shouldn't this be in the comparisons forum?

anyways, my list goes.

1. LeBron
2. Wade
3. Kobe
4. Paul
5. Durant
6. Howard
7. Williams
8. Melo

that's off of the top of my head, could be missing somebody.

Kashmir13579
09-10-2010, 03:47 PM
we finally agree on this topic haha
and that is exactly what I was saying. He isn't Monta Ellis chucker here, he is a legit star. But he isn't with the best of the best in the league

i knew it would happen eventually ;)

cmellofan15
09-10-2010, 03:48 PM
It's ridiculous how overrated Anthony is. Top 10? No. It's that simple. He's slightly above average efficiency wise, is an average rebounder and passer, and a ****** defender. How does that equal top 10?

James
Wade
Bryant
Howard
Durant
Paul
Nowitzki
Duncan
Gasol
Roy
Pierce
Williams
Nash
Ginobili

Yao (if healthy)

I think are all better. And, i can even make a case where Danny Granger is better.

That puts him at #15 or so. The highest i'd go is 12/13, and he's definitely in the vicinity of top-15. But top 10? Hell no.

:laugh2:

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 03:51 PM
I honestly can't believe there are still fans out there who think Melo is better than Durant at this point

Or Dirk, or CP3, or like 10 other guys.

Jewelz0376
09-10-2010, 04:15 PM
i think Durant is the best player in the NBA. if he isn't, he will be in a couple years

uhhh no

He needs to get better on defense...I'm not saying he's a bad defender, but to be the best player in the league you have to be the one of the best defenders at your position..

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 04:24 PM
:laugh2:

Gasol- more efficient, similar distributor, ORtg/DRtg of +9
Roy- more efficient, better distributor, ORtg/DRtg +7
Pierce- far more efficient, better distributor, duplicate rebounder, much better defender, ORtg/DRtg difference + 6
Nash-far far more efficient, ORtg/DRtg difference of +9
Ginobili-far far more efficient, better distributor, slightly worse rebounder, much better defender, ORtg/DRtg difference +16


Anthony's ORtg/DRtg = 0 (107; 107 respectively)

heattiltheend94
09-10-2010, 04:32 PM
Nope
1. LeBron
2. Wade
3. Kobe
4. Durant
5. D12
6. Deron Williams
7.C Paul
8. Then Melo

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 04:34 PM
LeBron
Wade
Durant
Kobe
CP3
Dwight
Nowitzki
Deron

all ahead of him

barreleffact
09-10-2010, 04:49 PM
LeBron
Wade
Durant
Kobe
CP3
Dwight
Nowitzki
Deron

all ahead of him

in that order?

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 04:51 PM
in that order?

pretty much. I think Durant and Kobe could be flipped, but for this upcoming season, Kobe is a year older, and Durant is a year better. I also think if CP3 returns to pre injury form, he has a case for #3

Venomous88
09-10-2010, 04:54 PM
pretty much. I think Durant and Kobe could be flipped, but for this upcoming season, Kobe is a year older, and Durant is a year better. I also think if CP3 returns to pre injury form, he has a case for #3I think your rankings will be pretty accurate come the end of the season, but as of now, Kobe is still Top 2.

status_supreme
09-10-2010, 05:10 PM
Here's my 7

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Melo
5. Wade
6. CP3
7. Dwight Howard

magic0320
09-10-2010, 05:35 PM
Kobe
Lebron
Howard
Wade
Durent
Melo

I don't get why people thinks Howard is not top three or five player. Why!? because he is not fleshy on his offence as other top player??? he frekin beat Lebron's 60+ win team and had second most wins in NBA LAST SEASON!

Also everyone complains that Lebron didn't have good second option, but who does Howard have other than washed up Vince Carter, and just whole bunch 3 point shooters.

It's my opinion, but I really do believe Howard is top 3 player, because what he brings to TEAM SUCCESS!

kjoke
09-10-2010, 05:46 PM
lebron
wade
kobe
durant
howard
dwill
melo

kjoke
09-10-2010, 05:46 PM
i dont nderstand why people say that deron is better than cp3, then rank cp3 ahead in their top ten list

kjoke
09-10-2010, 05:48 PM
Gasol- more efficient, similar distributor, ORtg/DRtg of +9
Roy- more efficient, better distributor, ORtg/DRtg +7
Pierce- far more efficient, better distributor, duplicate rebounder, much better defender, ORtg/DRtg difference + 6
Nash-far far more efficient, ORtg/DRtg difference of +9
Ginobili-far far more efficient, better distributor, slightly worse rebounder, much better defender, ORtg/DRtg difference +16


Anthony's ORtg/DRtg = 0 (107; 107 respectively)

lmao, this guy comes in with one stat ALL the time

thescore53
09-10-2010, 05:51 PM
heres my top 5

lebron
kobe
wade
mello
cp3

i really dont know why durant is being so hyped

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 05:51 PM
lmao, this guy comes in with one stat ALL the time

???

goku
09-10-2010, 05:51 PM
lebron
kobe (in regular season 1st in playoffs)
wade
howard
melo
d-will
roy
cp3
dirk
yao (if healthy)
gasol

Brooklyn Mets
09-10-2010, 05:54 PM
lol i like how the Heat fans have Wade>Kobe
i can understand LBJ>Kobe, though i disagree, but Wade? lol

this is mine

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Wade
5. CP3
6. Dwight Howard
7. Melo

this

kjoke
09-10-2010, 05:54 PM
???

he actually believes manu is better than melo

tcav701
09-10-2010, 05:57 PM
he actually believes manu is better than melo

Yea thats strange...

I dont even see how you make a case for that.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 06:08 PM
lmao, this guy comes in with one stat ALL the time

Okay then, here's more than one stat for you:



Granger vs Anthony: Career Percentages
Granger
ts% ------ 57.0%
eFG% --- 51.1%
orb% ---- 4.2%
drb% ---- 13.7%
reb% ---- 8.9%
ast% ----- 10.3%
tov% ---- 11.0%
stl% ----- 1.6%
blk% ---- 2.2%
usg% ---- 23.4%
ORtg ---- 111
DRtg ---- 106
OWS --- 19.2
DWS ---- 13.9
WS ----- 33.1
WS/48 -- 0.131
PER ----- 17.4

Anthony
ts% ------ 54.4%
eFG% --- 47.8%
orb% ---- 6.3%
drb% ---- 12.9%
reb% ---- 9.6%
ast% ----- 15.7%
tov% ---- 11.9%
stl% ----- 1.6%
blk% ---- 0.9%
usg% ---- 31.1%
ORtg ---- 107
DRtg ---- 107
OWS --- 31.1
DWS ---- 17.7
WS ----- 48.8
WS/48 -- 0.125
PER ----- 20.1


Granger is by far the more efficient player. He's a much better 3point shooter, is more athletic and a better defender.
Anthony is a better passer and rebounder.




Granger vs Anthony: Past 5 Seasons
ts% ----- Granger 4 to 1
eFG% --- Granger 5 to 0
orb% --- Anthony 4 to 1
drb% --- Granger 4 to 1
reb% --- Anthony 4 to 1
ast% --- Anthony 5 to 0
tov% --- Granger 4 to 1
stl% ---- Anthony 3 to 2
blk% ---- Granger 5 to 0
usg% ---- Anthony 5 to 0
ORtg ---- Granger 3 to 1 (1 tied)
DRtg ---- Granger 3 to 1 (1 tied)
OWS ----Anthony 4 to 1
DWS ----Granger 4 to 1
WS ----- Anthony 4 to 1
WS/48 -- Anthony 4 to 1

Granger - Blue
Anthony - Light Blue


Since Granger has been in the league, he's beaten Anthony in offensive efficiency and defense.
Since Granger has been in the league, Anthony has beaten Granger in rebounding and play-making abilities.




Granger vs Anthony: Shot Locations
Granger
Year ------ At Rim ------ <10 ft ------ 10-15ft ------ 16-23ft ------ Threes
2007 ------ 67.0% ------- 51.0% ------ 34.0% ------- 37.0% ------- 57.3%
2008 ------ 56.0% ------- 46.0% ------ 42.0% ------- 40.0% ------- 60.6% _______ SHOT PERCENTAGES
2009 ------ 60.0% ------- 39.0% ------ 39.0% ------- 42.0% ------- 60.8%
2010 ------ 59.1% ------- 44.9% ------ 44.9% ------- 37.0% ------- 54.2%

2007 -------- 2.6 ---------- 0.9 --------- 0.6 ---------- 2.9 ----------- 3.5
2008 -------- 3.6 ---------- 1.2 --------- 0.9 ---------- 4.1 ----------- 5.3 _______ SHOT ATTEMPTS
2009 -------- 4.1 ---------- 1.5 --------- 1.6 ---------- 5.2 ----------- 6.7
2010 -------- 4.5 ---------- 1.4 --------- 1.5 ---------- 3.9 ----------- 7.1

2007 ------ 51.4% ------- 21.6% ------ 44.4% ------- 75.3% -------- 94.5%
2008 ------ 41.3% ------- 34.1% ------ 45.2% ------- 54.2% -------- 98.2% _______ %ASSISTED
2009 ------ 37.4% ------- 25.0% ------ 19.5% ------- 45.5% -------- 95.1%
2010 ------ 40.5% ------- 37.5% ------ 27.8% ------- 36.3% -------- 90.5%

Anthony
Year ------ At Rim ------ <10 ft ------ 10-15ft ------ 16-23ft ------ Threes
2007 ------ 63.0% ------- 43.0% ------ 29.0% ------- 39.0% ------- 40.2%
2008 ------ 66.0% ------- 32.0% ------ 33.0% ------- 44.0% ------- 53.1% _______ SHOT PERCENTAGES
2009 ------ 57.0% ------- 43.0% ------ 33.0% ------- 39.0% ------- 55.7%
2010 ------ 59.6% ------- 33.1% ------ 42.7% ------- 40.0% ------- 47.4%

2007 -------- 9.4 ---------- 1.6 --------- 1.6 ---------- 6.9 ----------- 2.3
2008 -------- 7.2 ---------- 1.3 --------- 2.3 ---------- 5.9 ----------- 2.1 _______ SHOT ATTEMPTS
2009 -------- 6.5 ---------- 1.3 --------- 2.0 ---------- 5.9 ----------- 2.6
2010 -------- 7.9 ---------- 1.8 --------- 2.2 ---------- 7.1 ----------- 2.7

2007 ------ 63.0% ------- 27.3% ------ 45.2% ------- 58.0% -------- 87.5%
2008 ------ 57.9% ------- 46.9% ------ 47.5% ------- 55.7% -------- 96.6% _______ %ASSISTED
2009 ------ 48.5% ------- 34.2% ------ 27.9% ------- 40.0% -------- 87.3%
2010 ------ 43.9% ------- 19.0% ------ 21.9% ------- 36.0% -------- 84.7%


Anthony is actually assisted more on his shots than Granger is, so think about Granger actually playing with a PG in Rose that can give him the ball unlike anyone in Indiana was able to do.

Granger is actually the better shooter from everywhere on the court sans 16-23 feet. But, Granger also plays to his strengths…which is obviously his great range from behind the arc.


If Anthony is top-10 then so is Granger.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 06:15 PM
Ginobili beats Anthony in:

ts%
efg%
ast%
drb%
ast-to-tov ratio
ORtg
DRtg
OWS
DWS
WS/48
PER

Anthony beats Ginobili in:
orb%
trb%
tov% (ast/tov ratio is 0.003% above 1:1 which is god-awful)


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=anthoca01&y1=2010&p2=ginobma01&y2=2010

JordansBulls
09-10-2010, 06:15 PM
Gasol- more efficient, similar distributor, ORtg/DRtg of +9
Roy- more efficient, better distributor, ORtg/DRtg +7
Pierce- far more efficient, better distributor, duplicate rebounder, much better defender, ORtg/DRtg difference + 6
Nash-far far more efficient, ORtg/DRtg difference of +9
Ginobili-far far more efficient, better distributor, slightly worse rebounder, much better defender, ORtg/DRtg difference +16


Anthony's ORtg/DRtg = 0 (107; 107 respectively)

No way is Nash, Pierce, Roy or Manu better than Melo.

Kashmir13579
09-10-2010, 06:19 PM
shammy guy,
mello is very athletic. he's also much stronger than granger.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 06:20 PM
No way is Nash, Pierce, Roy or Manu better than Melo.

Pierce/Manu/Roy definitely are.
Nash, it depends on team need. But, Nash is far better at what he does than Anthony.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 06:20 PM
Ginobili beats Anthony in:

ts%
efg%
ast%
drb%
ast-to-tov ratio
ORtg
DRtg
OWS
DWS
WS/48
PER

Anthony beats Ginobili in:
orb%
trb%
tov% (ast/tov ratio is 0.003% above 1:1 which is god-awful)


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=anthoca01&y1=2010&p2=ginobma01&y2=2010

In alot of these stats you are arguing, Rose is in the 40-50 range and in some advanced stats, even lower.

Are you willing to go on record saying there are 50 players better than Rose?

If any GM had the choice of Melo, Granger or Manu, I think i know who they would take.

kjoke
09-10-2010, 06:22 PM
In alot of these stats you are arguing, Rose is in the 40-50 range and in some advanced stats, even lower.

Are you willing to go on record saying there are 50 players better than Rose?

If any GM had the choice of Melo, Granger or Manu, I think i know who they would take.

this

all his stats do is saying that judging alone on stats is not enough

BALLER71
09-10-2010, 06:26 PM
Pretty pathetic how some people have Wade over Lebron.

Gators123
09-10-2010, 06:27 PM
Pierce and Manu better than Melo? :speechless:

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 06:30 PM
In alot of these stats you are arguing, Rose is in the 40-50 range and in some advanced stats, even lower.

Are you willing to go on record saying there are 50 players better than Rose?

If any GM had the choice of Melo, Granger or Manu, I think i know who they would take.

Good point here. But, I would take Granger over Melo to be honest. I like Granger's game more, and trust him to improve in other areas of his game more than Anthony.


this

all his stats do is saying that judging alone on stats is not enough

Yeah. Definitely not enough.
But, in this case i think it's plenty. Reason why--> Carmelo Anthony has literally the perfect supporting cast around him, or slightly less than perfect. He has a debatable top-5 PG in Billups, a very good center in Nene, great role players as well. Yet, he still struggles in his efficiency. He still struggles with near everything. That is unacceptable.

IversonIsKrazy
09-10-2010, 06:35 PM
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. LeBron
4. Durrant
5. CP3
That's a solid top 5, after that u can make arguments for... Melo, Dwight, D-Will, and Dirk. I would eliminate D-Will, but I'm not sure who I would eliminate out of Melo/Dwight/Dirk. I would say he is a top 8 for sure. But I could say that he is a top 5-7 player.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 06:37 PM
Good point here. But, I would take Granger over Melo to be honest. I like Granger's game more, and trust him to improve in other areas of his game more than Anthony.



Yeah. Definitely not enough.
But, in this case i think it's plenty. Reason why--> Carmelo Anthony has literally the perfect supporting cast around him, or slightly less than perfect. He has a debatable top-5 PG in Billups, a very good center in Nene, great role players as well. Yet, he still struggles in his efficiency. He still struggles with near everything. That is unacceptable.

i knew I'd open up your eyes a little bit if I called out ur boy Rose.

Stats are a great way to measure players and most times the best way. But it's alot easier to be efficient when you're not being told by your coach to take alot of shots.

Personally, I am slowly comming to terms with advanced stats but I always think of the team they play for and their role on the team beacuse it could easily affect thier efficiency ratings.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 06:41 PM
New I'd open up your eyes a little bit if I called out ur boy Rose.

Stats are a great way to measure players and most times the best way. But it's alot easier to be efficient when you're not being told by your coach to take alot of shots.

Personally, I am slowly comming to terms with advanced stats but I always think of the team they play for and their role on the team beacuse it could easily affect thier efficiency ratings.


Well, my eyes are open 95% of the time.
Reason why using stats in this case is because Anthony has a great team, and so does Pierce, Manu, and Roy. So, with that great cast he should be more efficient... yet, he isn't.

Taking Rose's stats from last year is slightly misleading because he was hurt the first month. I wish that there were advanced stats splits by month so i can see those and have a better idea, but i have yet to find that website with those capabilities.

But, with Anthony....as shown in my previous post of Anthony vs Granger, he's assisted on more shots than Granger. How is that possible and he still have a worse efficiency rating and ts% and ORtg?????????????

Anthony is completely overrated, and is probably a top-15 player in the league. But, top-10 to me is ridiculous.

Evolution23
09-10-2010, 06:47 PM
top 5 right now

1.Stat
2.Melo
3.Gallo
4.Randolph
5.Felton
6.CP3
7.Durant

tcav701
09-10-2010, 06:47 PM
Shammy,

My point is, you cant pick and chose when to use certian stats depending on how they affect your opinion. You are not a lawyer, there is no need to persuade anyone.

If Melo is not a top 10 guy based on the stats, then Rose is not a top 50. Either go with the stats or dont.

I think Melo is a top 10 and Rose is a top 25 despite the stats. It is not their role to be effcient, in fact the gameplan makes it difficult for them to be.

JordansBulls
09-10-2010, 06:48 PM
Pierce/Manu/Roy definitely are.
Nash, it depends on team need. But, Nash is far better at what he does than Anthony.

You have got to be kidding me here?

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 06:52 PM
Shammy,

My point is, you cant pick and chose when to use certian stats depending on how they affect your opinion. You are not a lawyer, there is no need to persuade anyone.

If Melo is not a top 15 guy based on the stats, then Rose is not a top 50. Either go with the stats or dont.

I think Melo is a top 10 and Rose is a top 25 despite the stats. It is not their role to be effcient, in fact the gameplan makes it difficult for them to be.

I understand that. But, you can't compare the duo of Rose/Anthony. Reason being Rose was a 2nd year player on an average basketball team while Anthony is supposed to be a superstar and yet plays worse in the playoffs than he does in the regular season. I mean, come on.... I'm not saying Anthony sucks donkey penis or anything. He's top15 to top20. Rose, to me is top20 as well. With Rose it's different. IF he's still putting up those advanced stat percentages after this year then i'll be the first one on his ***.

And i don't get your last point. How is not anyone's role to be efficient? I mean, if Anthony put up efficiency numbers like he does now but also had a good ast/tov ratio then fine. But, that's not the case. Or, if he was a good defender and rebounder. Again, that's not the case.


You have got to be kidding me here?

I've thought that many times about you JB.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 06:59 PM
I understand that. But, you can't compare the duo of Rose/Anthony. Reason being Rose was a 2nd year player on an average basketball team while Anthony is supposed to be a superstar and yet plays worse in the playoffs than he does in the regular season. I mean, come on.... I'm not saying Anthony sucks donkey penis or anything. He's top15 to top20. Rose, to me is top20 as well. With Rose it's different. IF he's still putting up those advanced stat percentages after this year then i'll be the first one on his ***.

And i don't get your last point. How is not anyone's role to be efficient? I mean, if Anthony put up efficiency numbers like he does now but also had a good ast/tov ratio then fine. But, that's not the case. Or, if he was a good defender and rebounder. Again, that's not the case.





I've thought that many times about you JB.

Again, I will use your boy Rose as an example.

In the FIBA tourny his ast/to ratio is about 1/1. I could do that. But do you think its because hes a terrible excuse for a PG, or is it because coach K wants him to isolate and drive to the rim?

His role on the team affects his stats.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 07:11 PM
Again, I will use your boy Rose as an example.

In the FIBA tourny his ast/to ratio is about 1/1. I could do that. But do you think its because hes a terrible excuse for a PG, or is it because coach K wants him to isolate and drive to the rim?

His role on the team affects his stats.

Well,

1) You are using small sample sizes, while I'm using years of stats

2) Anthony's role on Denver is to score, and that's it. He does so slightly above average efficiency wise. He's not asked to play defense (although if he was he wouldn't be able to anyway), or to rebound. Again, my point stands that with multiple offensive weapons (and extremely efficient ones at that with Billups, Smith, Nene) he still isn't efficient enough to warrant top-10 status.

3) Rose's ast/tov ratio in his career is: 981 - 419 (2.34 to every 1) and including playoffs its: 1062 - 467 (2.27 to every 1).... just for the record

tcav701
09-10-2010, 07:13 PM
Well,

1) You are using small sample sizes, while I'm using years of stats

2) Anthony's role on Denver is to score, and that's it. He does so slightly above average efficiency wise. He's not asked to play defense (although if he was he wouldn't be able to anyway), or to rebound. Again, my point stands that with multiple offensive weapons (and extremely efficient ones at that with Billups, Smith, Nene) he still isn't efficient enough to warrant top-10 status.

3) Rose's ast/tov ratio in his career is: 981 - 419 (2.34 to every 1) and including playoffs its: 1062 - 467 (2.27 to every 1).... just for the record

So you're denying that his difference in ast/to ratio from Chicago to FIBA has anything to do with his different roles on each team?

BTW im not trying to say Rose is a bad player, I'm saying that stats can be misleading.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 07:18 PM
So you're denying that his difference in ast/to ratio from Chicago to FIBA has anything to do with his different roles on each team?

BTW im not trying to say Rose is a bad player, I'm saying that stats can be misleading.

No i'm not denying it. His role is a little different, yes.

But, wait ok.... here. You tell me what Carmelo Anthony's role is on his teams. I'd like to hear you describe his role.

Iggz53
09-10-2010, 07:20 PM
So you're denying that his difference in ast/to ratio from Chicago to FIBA has anything to do with his different roles on each team?

BTW im not trying to say Rose is a bad player, I'm saying that stats can be misleading.

Yeah, yours can because your sample size is less than 10 games, along with the fact that they've been practicing for a couple months. That data wouldn't be legitimate in any type of database.

The ones shammy is giving you, on the other hand, are full seasons, where his efficiency hasn't changed much from year to year.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 07:25 PM
Yeah, yours can because your sample size is less than 10 games, along with the fact that they've been practicing for a couple months. That data wouldn't be legitimate in any type of database.

The ones shammy is giving you, on the other hand, are full seasons, where his efficiency hasn't changed much from year to year.

:)

:superman: Iggz :superman:

tcav701
09-10-2010, 07:26 PM
No i'm not denying it. His role is a little different, yes.

But, wait ok.... here. You tell me what Carmelo Anthony's role is on his teams. I'd like to hear you describe his role.

His role is to score point blank. To catch and shoot. Opposing defenses key in on him and he is still asked to score.

Manu taking open shots in SA is a little different than fighting just to get open and having entire defenses chase you when you catch the ball.

As far as the defensive ratings go, that is kind of a team stat. He is by no means a great defender but his rating would be higher outside of a Geroge Karl defense.

Ill tell you this, if Melo were to go to the Bulls, his defensive rating would be higher and his offensive rating would probably be about the same.

And as far as Granger goes, its easy to be efficient in garbage time lol. Not taking anything away from him because he's a lights out shooter but I think its safe to say he's no Melo.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 07:27 PM
Yeah, yours can because your sample size is less than 10 games, along with the fact that they've been practicing for a couple months. That data wouldn't be legitimate in any type of database.

The ones shammy is giving you, on the other hand, are full seasons, where his efficiency hasn't changed much from year to year.

So then based on advanced stats, you will go on record saying Rose is not a top 50 player?

KickPushCoast
09-10-2010, 07:33 PM
Yes. Easily IMO. Arguably the best scorer in the game, can rebound the ball, decently good defender. He's a pretty well-rounded player so i dont see how dwight howard can be put ahead of him. I think Dwight is a second option offensively on a good team and doesnt have the killer instinct that Melo has. But obviously Dwight is a total beast on defense

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Melo/Dwill
6. Melo/ Dwill
7.Cp3
8. Dirk

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 07:36 PM
His role is to score point blank. To catch and shoot. Opposing defenses key in on him and he is still asked to score.

Manu taking open shots in SA is a little different than fighting just to get open and having entire defenses chase you when you catch the ball.

As far as the defensive ratings go, that is kind of a team stat. He is by no means a great defender but his rating would be higher outside of a Geroge Karl defense.

Ill tell you this, if Melo were to go to the Bulls, his defensive rating would be higher and his offensive rating would probably be about the same.

And as far as Granger goes, its easy to be efficient in garbage time lol. Not taking anything away from him because he's a lights out shooter but I think its safe to say he's no Melo.

If his role is to score, then he's slightly above average at it. Look at the percentages with a great team around him. You act like Melo doesn't have open shots, which he does. I just showed everyone that he gets assisted on more plays than Granger and yet Granger still has a higher efficiency. Same goes for Manu. Anthony has played with Billups and Nene, and actually played with Iverson in his one very good season. Yet, he's still only had 1 year in which his eFG% was above average.

Carmelo Anthony is not as good as you are making him out to be. I've given all the stats, his ts% and eFG%, the ORtg, ast% reb%, tov%, shots assisted on, and shots attempted.

You have got to be kidding me if you are just going to ignore those.
And, when you say this:

>>>>>>>>>" its easy to be efficient in garbage time lol." <<<<<<<<<<<

That's a complete lie. Granger is the only good player on his team. He's not playing with Billups and Nene, he's playing with ****ing TJ Ford for pete's sake. The opposing defenses know that the only way the Pacers would win is if Granger plays well. So, it's even harder on him as the #1, 2, and 3 option on the team.

C'mon man, you're better than this.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 07:48 PM
Yea lol.

That last one was a huge stretch.

But it doesnt change the fact that despite all of those stats, (which dont lie) very few will believe Granger or Manu is a better player than Melo.

You just proved to me statistically why they are more efficient but even so, there is a 0% chance i wouldnt take Melo out of those 3 and I'm willing to bet 30 GMs agree with me there.

Thats why I had to bring Rose into the convo because the notion that he isnt a top 50 player is horse **** but I could prove he isn't based on the same stats.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 07:55 PM
Yea lol.

That last one was a huge stretch.

But it doesnt change the fact that despite all of those stats, (which dont lie) very few will believe Granger or Manu is a better player than Melo.

You just proved to me statistically why they are more efficient but even so, there is a 0% chance i wouldnt take Melo out of those 3 and I'm willing to bet 30 GMs agree with me there.


Granger is better than Anthony in everything except for passing/rebounding.
Manu is better than Anthony in everything except for rebounding.

Now, the question with Granger is this: If you swap Granger and Anthony, are the Nuggets better? I think they might be. Are the Pacers better? Meh i think that's a tossup. That's how i compare the two.
If we're talking first pick in the draft, and i can only pick b/w Granger and Anthony then I'd pick Anthony. And, i'd pick Anthony over Manu merely, and this is the only reason--- their ages.

Manu might just be the most underrated player in the league. For my Bulls team, I'd pick Manu over both Granger and Anthony if it was merely for 1 year.

And i also know very few will agree with me- then again, very few people understand player analysis using advanced stats (which gives a great picture). Then, look at the teams they play on and the type of systems they run. Then, look at intangibles.

Just saying, Carmelo is still a top-15ish player, definitely not top-10 though.

Baller1
09-10-2010, 08:03 PM
Granger is better than Anthony in everything except for passing/rebounding.
Manu is better than Anthony in everything except for rebounding.

Now, the question with Granger is this: If you swap Granger and Anthony, are the Nuggets better? I think they might be. Are the Pacers better? Meh i think that's a tossup. That's how i compare the two.
If we're talking first pick in the draft, and i can only pick b/w Granger and Anthony then I'd pick Anthony. And, i'd pick Anthony over Manu merely, and this is the only reason--- their ages.

Manu might just be the most underrated player in the league. For my Bulls team, I'd pick Manu over both Granger and Anthony if it was merely for 1 year.

And i also know very few will agree with me- then again, very few people understand player analysis using advanced stats (which gives a great picture). Then, look at the teams they play on and the type of systems they run. Then, look at intangibles.

Just saying, Carmelo is still a top-15ish player, definitely not top-10 though.

I think leaving him out of the top 10 is a stretch, but he's definitely toward the end of the list. He's overrated in my eyes.

tcav701
09-10-2010, 08:04 PM
Granger is better than Anthony in everything except for passing/rebounding.
Manu is better than Anthony in everything except for rebounding.

Now, the question with Granger is this: If you swap Granger and Anthony, are the Nuggets better? I think they might be. Are the Pacers better? Meh i think that's a tossup. That's how i compare the two.
If we're talking first pick in the draft, and i can only pick b/w Granger and Anthony then I'd pick Anthony. And, i'd pick Anthony over Manu merely, and this is the only reason--- their ages.

Manu might just be the most underrated player in the league. For my Bulls team, I'd pick Manu over both Granger and Anthony if it was merely for 1 year.

And i also know very few will agree with me- then again, very few people understand player analysis using advanced stats (which gives a great picture). Then, look at the teams they play on and the type of systems they run. Then, look at intangibles.

Just saying, Carmelo is still a top-15ish player, definitely not top-10 though.

Well with the stats you have provided, intangibles are the only argument. I believe that Melo brings the presence of a superstar more so than the other two and I think he takes the pressure off of alot of guys around him.

I mean even with these stats, out of the 3 who do you want taking the last shot? Give me Melo all day.

And for the record I dont think hes a top 5 guy but IMO putting the likes of Granger, Manu and Pierce (who is my favorite player) ahead of Melo just doesn't register.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 08:10 PM
I think leaving him out of the top 10 is a stretch, but he's definitely toward the end of the list. He's overrated in my eyes.

I don't think it's a stretch, at least going into this season. Because i'd argue for guys like Pierce and Ginobili and Nash being better. He's top-15ish, and the highest i'd go is 12/13.


Well with the stats you have provided, intangibles are the only argument. I believe that Melo brings the presence of a superstar more so than the other two and I think he takes the pressure off of alot of guys around him.

I mean even with these stats, out of the 3 who do you want taking the last shot? Give me Melo all day.

And for the record I dont think hes a top 5 guy but IMO putting the likes of Granger, Manu and Pierce (who is my favorite player) ahead of Melo just doesn't register.

Well, for me it would be a toss-up between Melo and Manu. I mean, Manu is ****ing clutch as well.
The other note: In my eyes, Pierce and Ginobili affect the game with their distributing abilities and defense as well. If Anthony has an off-shooting night, he doesn't help at all.

thescore53
09-10-2010, 08:30 PM
@shammy i get some of ur arguements nash over mello ok im cool with that, but granger ? mello is a bonafide superstar, and you cant sit there and tell me you would choose granger over mello if you could have them for free. if you did i would advise you not to leave your home after the city of chi gets real madd.

Chi-Town Sports
09-10-2010, 08:37 PM
Here's mine, i voted 5-7

1.Kobe
2.Lebron
3.Durant
4.CP3
5.Wade
6.Dwight
7.Melo

Probably gonna get some criticism for Wade being low but i believe CP3 when healthy is a fantastic efficient player.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 08:45 PM
@shammy i get some of ur arguements nash over mello ok im cool with that, but granger ? mello is a bonafide superstar, and you cant sit there and tell me you would choose granger over mello if you could have them for free. if you did i would advise you not to leave your home after the city of chi gets real madd.

I'm merely going to direct you to my previous comment man.


Okay then, here's more than one stat for you:


Granger vs Anthony: Career Percentages
Granger
ts% ------ 57.0%
eFG% --- 51.1%
orb% ---- 4.2%
drb% ---- 13.7%
reb% ---- 8.9%
ast% ----- 10.3%
tov% ---- 11.0%
stl% ----- 1.6%
blk% ---- 2.2%
usg% ---- 23.4%
ORtg ---- 111
DRtg ---- 106
OWS --- 19.2
DWS ---- 13.9
WS ----- 33.1
WS/48 -- 0.131
PER ----- 17.4

Anthony
ts% ------ 54.4%
eFG% --- 47.8%
orb% ---- 6.3%
drb% ---- 12.9%
reb% ---- 9.6%
ast% ----- 15.7%
tov% ---- 11.9%
stl% ----- 1.6%
blk% ---- 0.9%
usg% ---- 31.1%
ORtg ---- 107
DRtg ---- 107
OWS --- 31.1
DWS ---- 17.7
WS ----- 48.8
WS/48 -- 0.125
PER ----- 20.1


Granger is by far the more efficient player. He's a much better 3point shooter, is more athletic and a better defender.
Anthony is a better passer and rebounder.




Granger vs Anthony: Past 5 Seasons
ts% ----- Granger 4 to 1
eFG% --- Granger 5 to 0
orb% --- Anthony 4 to 1
drb% --- Granger 4 to 1
reb% --- Anthony 4 to 1
ast% --- Anthony 5 to 0
tov% --- Granger 4 to 1
stl% ---- Anthony 3 to 2
blk% ---- Granger 5 to 0
usg% ---- Anthony 5 to 0
ORtg ---- Granger 3 to 1 (1 tied)
DRtg ---- Granger 3 to 1 (1 tied)
OWS ----Anthony 4 to 1
DWS ----Granger 4 to 1
WS ----- Anthony 4 to 1
WS/48 -- Anthony 4 to 1

Granger - Blue
Anthony - Light Blue


Since Granger has been in the league, he's beaten Anthony in offensive efficiency and defense.
Since Granger has been in the league, Anthony has beaten Granger in rebounding and play-making abilities.




Granger vs Anthony: Shot Locations
Granger
Year ------ At Rim ------ <10 ft ------ 10-15ft ------ 16-23ft ------ Threes
2007 ------ 67.0% ------- 51.0% ------ 34.0% ------- 37.0% ------- 57.3%
2008 ------ 56.0% ------- 46.0% ------ 42.0% ------- 40.0% ------- 60.6% _______ SHOT PERCENTAGES
2009 ------ 60.0% ------- 39.0% ------ 39.0% ------- 42.0% ------- 60.8%
2010 ------ 59.1% ------- 44.9% ------ 44.9% ------- 37.0% ------- 54.2%

2007 -------- 2.6 ---------- 0.9 --------- 0.6 ---------- 2.9 ----------- 3.5
2008 -------- 3.6 ---------- 1.2 --------- 0.9 ---------- 4.1 ----------- 5.3 _______ SHOT ATTEMPTS
2009 -------- 4.1 ---------- 1.5 --------- 1.6 ---------- 5.2 ----------- 6.7
2010 -------- 4.5 ---------- 1.4 --------- 1.5 ---------- 3.9 ----------- 7.1

2007 ------ 51.4% ------- 21.6% ------ 44.4% ------- 75.3% -------- 94.5%
2008 ------ 41.3% ------- 34.1% ------ 45.2% ------- 54.2% -------- 98.2% _______ %ASSISTED
2009 ------ 37.4% ------- 25.0% ------ 19.5% ------- 45.5% -------- 95.1%
2010 ------ 40.5% ------- 37.5% ------ 27.8% ------- 36.3% -------- 90.5%

Anthony
Year ------ At Rim ------ <10 ft ------ 10-15ft ------ 16-23ft ------ Threes
2007 ------ 63.0% ------- 43.0% ------ 29.0% ------- 39.0% ------- 40.2%
2008 ------ 66.0% ------- 32.0% ------ 33.0% ------- 44.0% ------- 53.1% _______ SHOT PERCENTAGES
2009 ------ 57.0% ------- 43.0% ------ 33.0% ------- 39.0% ------- 55.7%
2010 ------ 59.6% ------- 33.1% ------ 42.7% ------- 40.0% ------- 47.4%

2007 -------- 9.4 ---------- 1.6 --------- 1.6 ---------- 6.9 ----------- 2.3
2008 -------- 7.2 ---------- 1.3 --------- 2.3 ---------- 5.9 ----------- 2.1 _______ SHOT ATTEMPTS
2009 -------- 6.5 ---------- 1.3 --------- 2.0 ---------- 5.9 ----------- 2.6
2010 -------- 7.9 ---------- 1.8 --------- 2.2 ---------- 7.1 ----------- 2.7

2007 ------ 63.0% ------- 27.3% ------ 45.2% ------- 58.0% -------- 87.5%
2008 ------ 57.9% ------- 46.9% ------ 47.5% ------- 55.7% -------- 96.6% _______ %ASSISTED
2009 ------ 48.5% ------- 34.2% ------ 27.9% ------- 40.0% -------- 87.3%
2010 ------ 43.9% ------- 19.0% ------ 21.9% ------- 36.0% -------- 84.7%


Anthony is actually assisted more on his shots than Granger is, so think about Granger actually playing with a PG in Rose that can give him the ball unlike anyone in Indiana was able to do.

Granger is actually the better shooter from everywhere on the court sans 16-23 feet. But, Granger also plays to his strengths…which is obviously his great range from behind the arc.


If Anthony is top-10 then so is Granger.


I'm not pulling out opinions out of my *** man. I'm backing them up with an actual analysis. Try and rebuff my argument (which i used stats in and not just opinion) by using stats or something. I'm all for good discussion, but just because you can't provide a good counter-argument doesn't mean you should completely dismiss my points because i do provide great arguments nearly 99% of the time.

You can't sit there at ur laptop or computer desk and say that I have no basis for my arguments and opinions- because I do.

JordansBulls
09-10-2010, 08:59 PM
I've thought that many times about you JB.

Pierce, Manu and Nash have never done anything as the hands down best on the team. Melo has.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 09:06 PM
Pierce, Manu and Nash have never done anything as the hands down best on the team. Melo has.

Uh, have you not watched Nash the past 5 years? He's lead the league in ast% three times:
44.4
50.1
47.3
42.4
50.9
He's also had a ts% over 60% all of the last 6 seasons (and 9 out of 11). He's also won 2 MVPs (although that's not a great thing to go on a debate with).

Also, Pierce just won a championship as the best player. And, Manu has been the most underrated player in the league for years in my eyes.

But, what the **** has Anthony done JB?????? Nothing, that's what.

kjoke
09-10-2010, 09:07 PM
shammy you ca have manu, id take melo any time

thescore53
09-10-2010, 09:09 PM
Uh, have you not watched Nash the past 5 years? He's lead the league in ast% three times:
44.4
50.1
47.3
42.4
50.9
He's also had a ts% over 60% all of the last 6 seasons (and 9 out of 11). He's also won 2 MVPs (although that's not a great thing to go on a debate with).

Also, Pierce just won a championship as the best player. And, Manu has been the most underrated player in the league for years in my eyes.

But, what the **** has Anthony done JB?????? Nothing, that's what.

celtic won that title as a team. but if i was gonna give the most credit to one player it would be kg.

tredigs
09-10-2010, 09:09 PM
Pierce, Manu and Nash have never done anything as the hands down best on the team. Melo has.

What, fail to get out of the first round 5 out of 6 times he's had the opportunity? Melo may be considered the "hands down best player on the team", but the player that took them over the hump (and the reason for the one deep playoff run he's had) was Chauncey: 21 ppg 4 rpg 7 apg w/ a 65% ts% and .249 WinShares/48 (Melo's was .201) along with solid defense and less turnovers than Melo (even though he was the PG, obviously).

Melo was very good, but Chauncey was amazing - and definitely their best player.

Looking at the voting on this poll, it's pretty obvious that people overrate silky offense and don't take into account efficiency, leadership, durability or defense nearly as much as they should. Melo should not be considered a top 5-7 player in this league.

Guru™
09-10-2010, 09:10 PM
1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Wade
5. Dwight
6. Melo

Yep Top 7.

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 09:14 PM
shammy you ca have manu, id take melo any time

I'd gladly let you have the worse player. Especially since you need the perfect cast around him in order to win, because he can't do anything except score at a above-average (at best) efficiency. I'll take the extremely efficient, good play-maker and defender in Manu every time.


celtic won that title as a team. but if i was gonna give the most credit to one player it would be kg.

Pierce was the best player on that team to me though. But I'm sure if you had to chose it would be pretty split. Pierce by the slightest of margins.

Kashmir13579
09-10-2010, 09:38 PM
I understand that. But, you can't compare the duo of Rose/Anthony. Reason being Rose was a 2nd year player on an average basketball team while Anthony is supposed to be a superstar and yet plays worse in the playoffs than he does in the regular season. I mean, come on.... I'm not saying Anthony sucks donkey penis or anything. He's top15 to top20. Rose, to me is top20 as well. With Rose it's different. IF he's still putting up those advanced stat percentages after this year then i'll be the first one on his ***.

And i don't get your last point. How is not anyone's role to be efficient? I mean, if Anthony put up efficiency numbers like he does now but also had a good ast/tov ratio then fine. But, that's not the case. Or, if he was a good defender and rebounder. Again, that's not the case.



I've thought that many times about you JB.
i think melo tied the record for most consecutive 30 (or was it 35?) point games in the playoffs:facepalm:

Venomous88
09-10-2010, 09:42 PM
Lmfao at anyone who puts Durant over Wade. There's really no legit argument for it

Jewelz0376
09-10-2010, 09:44 PM
Granger is better than Melo yet Granger can't even get any burn on Team USA???

thescore53
09-10-2010, 09:49 PM
granger is better then mello yet he cant lead his team to one postseason appearance, mello hasnt missed the playoffs in his whole career.

JordansBulls
09-10-2010, 09:59 PM
Granger is better than Melo yet Granger can't even get any burn on Team USA???

:speechless:

MiamiWadeCounty
09-10-2010, 09:59 PM
i got him at exactly 7.
1.lebron
2a.kobe
2b.wade
4.howard (best defender)
5a.cp3
5b.dwill
7.melo
8a. durant (maybe top 5 next season)
8b. dirk (with durant as the purest scorers in the league)

elizur
09-10-2010, 10:00 PM
No, not really close. He's a good scorer that shoots a lot. Everything else about his game is average. This is not the definition of a top player in the NBA.


As for where they stand right now, I have Wade, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, Dwight, Yao, Paul above him definitely, and Deron, Nash, and Roy slightly above him.

So...It is close then?

JordansBulls
09-10-2010, 10:00 PM
Uh, have you not watched Nash the past 5 years? He's lead the league in ast% three times:
44.4
50.1
47.3
42.4
50.9
He's also had a ts% over 60% all of the last 6 seasons (and 9 out of 11). He's also won 2 MVPs (although that's not a great thing to go on a debate with).

Also, Pierce just won a championship as the best player. And, Manu has been the most underrated player in the league for years in my eyes.

But, what the **** has Anthony done JB?????? Nothing, that's what.

Pierce didn't win a title as the best player. Garnett led that team in both PER and Win Shares and finished higher in MVP voting.
Nash didn't lead the Suns, Amare was the guy who led the team not only in scoring but only PER and Win Shares.

FlashMacker
09-10-2010, 10:02 PM
Yes

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. James
4. Durant
5. Howard
6. Melo

thescore53
09-10-2010, 10:06 PM
:speechless:

:facepalm: come on jb try reading the whole sentence

aussie
09-10-2010, 10:33 PM
1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Durant
4. CP3
5. Wade
6. Wade
7. Howard

Shammyguy3
09-10-2010, 10:33 PM
granger is better then mello yet he cant lead his team to one postseason appearance, mello hasnt missed the playoffs in his whole career.

Yeah, and you know what? He's been playing with a top-5 PG in Billups, a top-10 C in Nene, great role players as well. As Iggz has already put it:


Yeah, one year the Nuggets made it that far. And again, they have a great supporting cast, with Billups (easily one of the best PG's in the NBA), Smith, Nene, Jones (one of the best overall defenders in the league at that time), K-Mart, who also had a great playoffs, Birdman, and Kleiza. That is a GREAT team he had around him, and guess what?

That was the only time in his 7-year career that he made it past the 1st round. He's overrated, and that's the truth.

Guess who Granger has played with? TJ Ford, Roy Hibbert, Earl Watson, and Jeff Foster being the second best player.


Pierce didn't win a title as the best player. Garnett led that team in both PER and Win Shares and finished higher in MVP voting.
Nash didn't lead the Suns, Amare was the guy who led the team not only in scoring but only PER and Win Shares.

Well, like I said it's a tossup for most people. They've been nearly equal the last 3 seasons. And, if it wasn't for Nash Amare wouldn't have done that well. Amare has been assisted on 64.9% 69.9% 57.2% and 61.2% of his shots the last four seasons, with Nash having an ast% of 50.1% 47.3% 42.4% and 50.9% .... everyone will see that this year.

thescore53
09-10-2010, 11:02 PM
^^ do u have a statistic to prove the girl in ur sig is the hottest chick on psd :p

THE GIPPER
09-10-2010, 11:22 PM
Shammy....you really should spend more time watching the games rather than just looking at the stats its a much better way of evalutating a player. cuz when you say ginobili and granger are better than melo you just sound stupid.

IBleedPurple
09-10-2010, 11:24 PM
Shammy....you really should spend more time watching the games rather than just looking at the stats its a much better way of evalutating a player. cuz when you say ginobili and granger are better than melo you just sound stupid.

^this

Ovratd1up
09-11-2010, 05:31 AM
While I'm on Shammy's side on this, I do think there is an argument there that you may not be giving enough merit to. Melo is asked to be the focus of the offense (justified or not) and that allows players like Billups, Afflalo, Smith, and Nene to be very efficient. That's his job, what he is asked to do, because it is the formula to get his team to win, efficient role players. This is the case with a lot of players who take too many shots, such as Kobe and Iverson, and their teams succeed because of it. Because you replace AI with Chauncey and the Phili role players can't be nearly as efficient. Manu is asked to do some of everything because that's what his team needs him to do to win.

JordansBulls
09-11-2010, 08:10 AM
I think it is fair to say Deron is better considering he beat Melo last year with 2 starters out on his own team.

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 10:23 AM
I have yet to read a valid argument on how Melo is a top 5-7 player. If you want jersey and ticket sales, and to go home by round 2 every year, by all means, Melo is your guy. He is a terrific player, but I personally would argue there is absolutely no way he is a top 2 SF, and it could be argued that he is the #4 SF.
You can shun advanced stats all you want. Fact is, he hoists more shots per possession than any other player in the NBA, on a fast paced team, so he gets a high number of points per game, which allows the average fan to overlook his below average TS and eFG percentages. On top of that, he is an average rebounder at his position, and his offensive rating career wise is average. He is not even the most effective scorer on his own team.
Again, I like Melo as a player. Would love to have him. But he is not a 1st option on a championship team. Never has been.

RaJAxTWa
09-11-2010, 10:44 AM
Wade
Kobe
Lebron
Durant
Dwight

Anthony is somewhere between 6 and 10.

:facepalm: ur def a miami heat fan

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 10:45 AM
:facepalm: ur def a miami heat fan

I think Wade is better than Kobe now as well. And I am not a Heat fan

Ethix11
09-11-2010, 10:51 AM
He's my #7.

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. CP3
6. Dwight Howard
7. Melo

Sounds about right if a Laker fan does say so himself. Other considerations at 7 would be Duncan. Offense is only 50% of the game.

kjoke
09-11-2010, 10:58 AM
I think Wade is better than Kobe now as well. And I am not a Heat fan

i am a heat fan and i also think kobe fell to the 3 spot since 2 years ago

JordansBulls
09-11-2010, 03:03 PM
I think Wade is better than Kobe now as well. And I am not a Heat fan

I think what hurts Kobe is that Gasol led the team in both PER and Win Shares last year and led the entire playoffs in Win Shares last year.

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 03:09 PM
I think what hurts Kobe is that Gasol led the team in both PER and Win Shares last year and led the entire playoffs in Win Shares last year.

that and 1400 games on his knees. Kobe just isn't capable of carrying the load for 100 games a year anymore. Its simply aging. Its not a slight at him. His efficiency has dropped for 3 straight years, blame it on injuries, whatever you like. Nobody can expect a 31 year old Kobe will all that mileage to be able to play night in and night out with the same energy as a 21 year old Durant, a 25 year old James, or a 28 year old Wade. In 6 years, people will be using LeBron's career achievements to argue he is better than some 24 year old that is outplaying him. Just the nature of the beast.

bbblack40
09-11-2010, 03:29 PM
lol i like how the Heat fans have Wade>Kobe
i can understand LBJ>Kobe, though i disagree, but Wade? lol

this is mine

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Wade
5. CP3
6. Dwight Howard
7. Melo

how is kobe better than Wade? please share and no he has 5 rings argument bc thats a team thing check tha career stats and get back to me.

J_M_B
09-11-2010, 03:39 PM
In my opinion, yes.

I have him ranked 6th..

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Howard
6. Carmelo
7. Williams
8. Paul
9. Dirk
10. Pau

VinceCarter
09-11-2010, 03:46 PM
I don't think it's a stretch, at least going into this season. Because i'd argue for guys like Pierce and Ginobili and Nash being better. He's top-15ish, and the highest i'd go is 12/13.

Who do you have better than Melo? Let's see the list...

Kashmir13579
09-11-2010, 04:02 PM
I have yet to read a valid argument on how Melo is a top 5-7 player. If you want jersey and ticket sales, and to go home by round 2 every year, by all means, Melo is your guy. He is a terrific player, but I personally would argue there is absolutely no way he is a top 2 SF, and it could be argued that he is the #4 SF.
You can shun advanced stats all you want. Fact is, he hoists more shots per possession than any other player in the NBA, on a fast paced team, so he gets a high number of points per game, which allows the average fan to overlook his below average TS and eFG percentages. On top of that, he is an average rebounder at his position, and his offensive rating career wise is average. He is not even the most effective scorer on his own team.
Again, I like Melo as a player. Would love to have him. But he is not a 1st option on a championship team. Never has been.

wow man. :facepalm: why you gotta try n be like that? its because of the team he's on. you bet your *** if he played for pop or larry brown advanced stats would be much different. if he goes to the knicks or bulls you can take it to the bank he'll be the first option while they compete for championships in the coming years. all stats aside melo is a top 7 player, you can clearly tell just by watching him play. you don't seem to think he will have a good career; thats neither here nor there. 2 years ago he was legit competing against kobe in the playoffs and came as close to winning as anyone has. i don't know what it is with you and melo. P.S(off-topic), looking at the situation as a whole (not just at your glorious stats) its OBVIOUS that melo should've won rookie of the year. even with the stats melo still had a case for it. i will battle you all day on this topic if need be, and you know i got the firepower to do so. tell me how LBJ wins rookie of the year, when he couldnt even take his team to the playoffs the same year the knicks got the 8th seed.
melo did it in the west! you can say what you want about them having camby and miller, but the cavs had Lebron, Big Z, and Boozer; which certainly should've been enough to make the playoffs in a completely stagnant east. with all that already out of the way, lebrons stats were only marginally better in a couple areas.

raps14
09-11-2010, 04:24 PM
I would say anywhere from 5-8th best in the league.

thescore53
09-11-2010, 04:29 PM
Wade
Kobe
Lebron
Durant
Dwight

Anthony is somewhere between 6 and 10.

it doesnt trouble me that u have wade over kobe... what troubles me is that u have lbj third.

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 04:46 PM
wow man. :facepalm: why you gotta try n be like that? its because of the team he's on. you bet your *** if he played for pop or larry brown advanced stats would be much different. if he goes to the knicks or bulls you can take it to the bank he'll be the first option while they compete for championships in the coming years. all stats aside melo is a top 7 player, you can clearly tell just by watching him play. you don't seem to think he will have a good career; thats neither here nor there. 2 years ago he was legit competing against kobe in the playoffs and came as close to winning as anyone has. i don't know what it is with you and melo. P.S(off-topic), looking at the situation as a whole (not just at your glorious stats) its OBVIOUS that melo should've won rookie of the year. even with the stats melo still had a case for it. i will battle you all day on this topic if need be, and you know i got the firepower to do so. tell me how LBJ wins rookie of the year, when he couldnt even take his team to the playoffs the same year the knicks got the 8th seed.
melo did it in the west! you can say what you want about them having camby and miller, but the cavs had Lebron, Big Z, and Boozer; which certainly should've been enough to make the playoffs in a completely stagnant east. with all that already out of the way, lebrons stats were only marginally better in a couple areas.


If Melo joins the current Knicks, they are still not contenders. They are 2nd round knockouts.
Its not obvious that he should have won ROY. LeBron had just as as good as numbers, and those who love to point to Denver's improvement always leave out the acquisition of a prime Andre Miller and Camby being healthy, a career year from Voshon Leonard, and Nene improving.

Furthermore, who cares about ROY? Mike Miller won it once. Since that season where Melo fans can make a rational claim he was as good as LeBron, James has created huge seperation. Where is the improvement from Melo after year 2? Looking at his numbers, you can't even pick his best season, and none of his best stack up against LeBron, Wade, Kobe, CP3, Durant, Dirk, Duncan, Dwight for example.
I realize he is a hero to Syracuse fans, and I appreciate some of you coming into the Wolves forum to tell us how awesome Flynn and Johnson are going to be (which is unrealistic, but appreciated), but Melo is not a top 7 player, and is barely on the cusp of top 10. Good scorer, but does it in an inefficient way, and is not much of a defender or distributor. He is good at one thing. And that one thing, he still doesn't have the efficiency of many in the league

Kashmir13579
09-11-2010, 05:04 PM
If Melo joins the current Knicks, they are still not contenders. They are 2nd round knockouts.
Its not obvious that he should have won ROY. LeBron had just as as good as numbers, and those who love to point to Denver's improvement always leave out the acquisition of a prime Andre Miller and Camby being healthy, a career year from Voshon Leonard, and Nene improving.

Furthermore, who cares about ROY? Mike Miller won it once. Since that season where Melo fans can make a rational claim he was as good as LeBron, James has created huge seperation. Where is the improvement from Melo after year 2? Looking at his numbers, you can't even pick his best season, and none of his best stack up against LeBron, Wade, Kobe, CP3, Durant, Dirk, Duncan, Dwight for example.
I realize he is a hero to Syracuse fans, and I appreciate some of you coming into the Wolves forum to tell us how awesome Flynn and Johnson are going to be (which is unrealistic, but appreciated), but Melo is not a top 7 player, and is barely on the cusp of top 10. Good scorer, but does it in an inefficient way, and is not much of a defender or distributor. He is good at one thing. And that one thing, he still doesn't have the efficiency of many in the league

umm... actually i did mention camby and miller and provided a logical counter argument. i almost stopped reading when you made a generalization about syracuse fans thinking he's as good as lebron. those are your words not mine; nobody thinks that and that isnt my argument. i'm simply talking about ROY when carmelo got snubbed by the nba's golden child. plus for the record i think flynn got drafted off hype and will turn out to be a bust (looking at players drafted after him). wes johnson is gonna be SICK though, mark my words! i'm not overly biased towards S.U players at all; especially not melo. any real cuse fan will tell you that gerry mcnamara is our hero first, then hakim warrick, THEN MELO. the best player on the team is rarely the fan favorite in the carrier dome. you take me for a melo fan-boy or something and he's not even close to being my favorite player in the nba

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 05:06 PM
umm... actually i did mention camby and miller and provided a logical counter argument. i almost stopped reading when you made a generalization about syracuse fans thinking he's as good as lebron. those are your words not mine; nobody thinks that and that isnt my argument. i'm simply talking about ROY when carmelo got snubbed by the nba's golden child. plus for the record i think flynn got drafted off hype and will turn out to be a bust (looking at players drafted after him). wes johnson is gonna be SICK though, mark my words! i'm not overly biased towards S.U players at all; especially not melo. any real cuse fan will tell you that gerry mcnamara is our hero first, then hakim warrick, THEN MELO. the best player on the team is rarely the fan favorite in the carrier dome.

and as I said, I don't really care about ROY when rating a player 7 years later.
And my opinion will not be wavered from PSD. Posted numbers have Melo right where he should be. Right around #10

Ironman5219
09-11-2010, 05:13 PM
lets see, so all I have to do is name 10 players that are better than mello, very simple:
1) James
2) Kobe
3) Wade
4) D. Williams
5) CP3
6) Durrant
7) P. Gasol
8) D. Howard
9) Dirk
10) Duncan

Wow and i didn't even talk about Rondo, Pierce, KG or Ray Allen, nor Brandon Roy, D. Rose, Al Jefferson, Boozer, Lopez, A. Stodimire, Bosh, Smith, Nash, Manu, T. Parker, or T. Evans. Yes I'm saying Melo may not even be in the top 20. He's good but not great.

Kashmir13579
09-11-2010, 05:16 PM
and as I said, I don't really care about ROY when rating a player 7 years later.
And my opinion will not be wavered from PSD. Posted numbers have Melo right where he should be. Right around #10

you "don't care" because your wrong, can't argue otherwise, and your trying to take the high road with me. and with that, i bid you good day, hawkeye.

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 05:24 PM
you "don't care" because your wrong, can't argue otherwise, and your trying to take the high road with me. and with that, i bid you good day, hawkeye.

I'm wrong about what? This thread is asking if Melo is a top 5-7 player. How does ROY in 2004 have anything to do with that? It has been shown over and over in this thread by those who posted actual evidence, that Melo does not have the numbers to belong in the top 7 conversation. Those who think he does have no rational opinion except what they think.
As far as rookie of the year, that is another debate. Look at their respective rosters when you talk about turnaround for each team. Then look at their advanced stats. Its a valid argument, but LeBron is going to win that

Kashmir13579
09-11-2010, 05:45 PM
I'm wrong about what? This thread is asking if Melo is a top 5-7 player. How does ROY in 2004 have anything to do with that? It has been shown over and over in this thread by those who posted actual evidence, that Melo does not have the numbers to belong in the top 7 conversation. Those who think he does have no rational opinion except what they think.
As far as rookie of the year, that is another debate. Look at their respective rosters when you talk about turnaround for each team. Then look at their advanced stats. Its a valid argument, but LeBron is going to win that

with all due respect, i said off topic before i went on this tangent. i also tried to debate this with you in a different melo thread and you said "there are countless other melo threads if want to debate this" so here we are.. i did look at the rosters, i did look at the advanced stats. melo and bron were both the 3rd most effective players on their roster, all of their stats from that season vary only marginally at best. the reason melo should've been a no brainer was for the playoff appearance in the west, and lebrons lack of a playoff birth in the (weak) east. i'm not trying to beat a dead horse, i just got a little flustered when you generalized the CUSE fanbase as being homers and idiots, (for lack of a better word). like i said, melo isn't even close to my favorite player in the nba. i'm capable of giving an unbiased opinion on him.

the unknown
09-11-2010, 05:57 PM
lets see, so all I have to do is name 10 players that are better than mello, very simple:
1) James
2) Kobe
3) Wade
4) D. Williams
5) CP3
6) Durrant
7) P. Gasol
8) D. Howard
9) Dirk
10) Duncan

Wow and i didn't even talk about Rondo, Pierce, KG or Ray Allen, nor Brandon Roy, D. Rose, Al Jefferson, Boozer, Lopez, A. Stodimire, Bosh, Smith, Nash, Manu, T. Parker, or T. Evans. Yes I'm saying Melo may not even be in the top 20. He's good but not great.




it is weird comparing players from different positions because it is easier for players to score more points or get better numbers on certain teams.. but not top 20.. wow ur a freaking hater hard as hell

I am not a Melo fan but In terms of scoring he has to prob have the best offensive game in the entire planet.. he just doesnt run faster than every .. getting easy fast break points(wade lebron).. he has one of the best mid range games in the entire league.. great post up.. pick and pop.. pick and roll.. and amazingly clutch.. i would say 5-7 is hard to say because i value pg's higher in value to a team.. but in terms of pure talent.. Melo is easily in the 5-7 range prob 4th in pure talent

kobe
wade
lebron
melo
durant
cp3
williams
dirk
gasol
stat

is prob my top 10 as far as talent

but as far as most valuable

lebron
wade
dwight
cp3
williams
nash
roy
duncan
rose
kobe

or some variation of that

Lakers211221
09-11-2010, 06:11 PM
I see a lot of list that have players that aren't as good as Melo listed ahead of him...Darren Williams? No! Chris Pau? No! Nash? Hell no! Duncan? 5 years ago! Brandon Roy? Closer, but still no. Here are the only players that I will put ahead of Melo:

1-Kobe
2-Lebron
3-Durant
4-Wade

Maybe Dwight Howard (this is a maybe since he really doesn't have much game besides blocking and dunking, but his size makes him solid)...maybe Dirk, but I'm not so sure with him either. At worst, you put these 2 ahead of him and he is the 7th best player in the league so yes Melo is 1 of the top 5-7 players in the league which is why over 65% of the 212 people in the poll say so!!!

beasted86
09-11-2010, 06:27 PM
I see a lot of list that have players that aren't as good as Melo listed ahead of him...Darren Williams? No! Chris Pau? No! Nash? Hell no! Duncan? 5 years ago! Brandon Roy? Closer, but still no.

Wait... Chris Paul gets an emphatic "No!" with an exclamation mark, but Brandon Roy is closer?

There goes all your credibility because Paul >>>>>> Roy, and it's literally not close. Paul is younger and is more efficient on all areas of the floor + a better defender. So there shows your whole ranking is screwed if you think Roy is better than Paul.

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 06:31 PM
with all due respect, i said off topic before i went on this tangent. i also tried to debate this with you in a different melo thread and you said "there are countless other melo threads if want to debate this" so here we are.. i did look at the rosters, i did look at the advanced stats. melo and bron were both the 3rd most effective players on their roster, all of their stats from that season vary only marginally at best. the reason melo should've been a no brainer was for the playoff appearance in the west, and lebrons lack of a playoff birth in the (weak) east. i'm not trying to beat a dead horse, i just got a little flustered when you generalized the CUSE fanbase as being homers and idiots, (for lack of a better word). like i said, melo isn't even close to my favorite player in the nba. i'm capable of giving an unbiased opinion on him.

fair enough. Their rookie years were both great, and Melo would not have been argued against if he won it any harder than the other way around here.
I have said, for me, it was LeBron. But Melo has a rational debate.
And I am not generalizing Cuse fans. I apologize. Especailly not as idiots. But many overrate their own guy, and its in their blood due to allegiance to a team. It happens all the time here.
Now, as for the thread, Melo is not a top 7 player. Not in my book, and its been spelled out throughout this thread. He is no better today than he was in year 3. He did not grow. LeBron did, and Durant is.

JordansBulls
09-11-2010, 07:42 PM
Can Melo lead a team to the title as the man is the bigger question?

cmellofan15
09-11-2010, 07:52 PM
Can Melo lead a team to the title as the man is the bigger question?

That's a statement, "Can Melo lead a team to the title as the man?" would have been a question and an irrelevant one at that. LeBron, Karl Malone, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Kevin Durant have not done this and they've had no problem getting mentioned in the top 7.

Rivera
09-11-2010, 08:20 PM
lets see, so all I have to do is name 10 players that are better than mello, very simple:
1) James
2) Kobe
3) Wade
4) D. Williams
5) CP3
6) Durrant
7) P. Gasol
8) D. Howard
9) Dirk
10) Duncan

Wow and i didn't even talk about Rondo, Pierce, KG or Ray Allen, nor Brandon Roy, D. Rose, Al Jefferson, Boozer, Lopez, A. Stodimire, Bosh, Smith, Nash, Manu, T. Parker, or T. Evans. Yes I'm saying Melo may not even be in the top 20. He's good but not great.

u can make a case for dwill/cp3 being better than melo not so muchh on gasol but there is an argument....duncan was better than melo but not today not in this point in duncans career is he better than melo

every1 else u named that i bolded is NOT better than melo sorry to burst ur bubble u were just naming players after ur top 10 just to seem cool but u my friend are an IDIOT if u seriously think that and if u think melo isnt a top 20 player u should get BANNED from PSD for lack of sports knowledge

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 08:57 PM
Can Melo lead a team to the title as the man is the bigger question?

I say no, he can not

arosen36
09-11-2010, 09:05 PM
no, hes close but durant, bryant, wade, james, howard, nowitzki, paul, deron williams and brandon roy are all better

thescore53
09-11-2010, 09:10 PM
Can Melo lead a team to the title as the man is the bigger question?

with the right supporting cast offcourse.

if he had a team like


billups
battier
mello
stoudemire
oden( somehow stays healthy) i think this is a championship team and mello can lead them

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 09:14 PM
with the right supporting cast offcourse.

if he had a team like


billups
battier
mello
stoudemire
oden( somehow stays healthy) i think this is a championship team and mello can lead them

is Melo the clear leader here? I mean, Billups has a much better offensive rating on the current Nuggets, and is a better defender.

thescore53
09-11-2010, 09:18 PM
^ well he's the best player on that team. u guys are seriously underatting mello

Avenged
09-11-2010, 09:19 PM
is Melo the clear leader here? I mean, Billups has a much better offensive rating on the current Nuggets, and is a better defender.

The best player on the team isn't always the leader.

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 09:49 PM
The best player on the team isn't always the leader.

agreed

Hawkeye15
09-11-2010, 09:50 PM
^ well he's the best player on that team. u guys are seriously underatting mello

well, if you surround him with the perfect recipe, then sure, Melo can be the man on a winner. Probably not happening though.

Iggz53
09-11-2010, 10:09 PM
^I'd also add that plenty of players around the league could take that team to the finals.

cmellofan15
09-11-2010, 10:21 PM
with the right supporting cast offcourse.

if he had a team like


billups
battier
mello
stoudemire
oden( somehow stays healthy) i think this is a championship team and mello can lead them

Well there's no need for Battier, Afflalo is already better. But back on topic that team will never come together and I don't believe it is all that helpful. Oden can't move on the break like Nene, which is the type of big man the Nuggets need and already have. Stoudemire's not bad but he doesn't need another major scoring component (see Allen Iverson) so a player like JJ Hickson would be sufficient. To expand on Battier, even though he's a veteran and a damn good mentor, he's not the same defender and deep threat he used to be. Afflalo fits very well in our system because he has the energy to run it both ways on the floor.

Tmath
09-11-2010, 10:27 PM
There is not much difference in talent from 1-10 but he is in there somewhere, he is a definite top 3 SF imo with Lebron & Durant.

JordansBulls
09-12-2010, 05:55 PM
with the right supporting cast offcourse.

if he had a team like


billups
battier
mello
stoudemire
oden( somehow stays healthy) i think this is a championship team and mello can lead them

Well I still think that team wouldn't win it all.