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Mile High Champ
09-09-2010, 09:16 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last two years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. It is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

I have skipped the number 1 poll as Howard was the obvious choice. I did the same thing with Lebron James at SF. I am trying to save some time as there is still the top 10 best players in the league list after the centers. Thanks for understanding.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Andrew Bogut
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


2009 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Shaquille O'Neal
5) Andrea Bargnani
6) Andris Biedrins
7) Emeka Okafor
8) Nene
9) Brook Lopez
10) Andrew Bynum

2008 Off-Season C Rankings:

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Andrew Bynum
5) Chris Kaman
6) Tyson Chandler
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Marcus Camby
9) Jermaine O'neal
10) Andrew Bogut

Draco
09-09-2010, 09:20 AM
Andrea Bargnani, FTW!

mynameismo
09-09-2010, 09:21 AM
Brook Lopez

Mile High Champ
09-09-2010, 09:21 AM
I went with Gasol and it was an easy pick.

People keep talking about Lopez, Noah and Bynum but are forgetting Gasol. Gasol last year posted better eFG%, ts%, ORtg and win shares than all 3 guys. He has a great back to the basket game, he is tough and rebounds well (consider he manages to get 9.5 board a game next to weakside rebounding king Zach Randolph). I dont see how guys like Noah & Lopez are looked at as guys that are better than Gasol.

Look at the numbers, they speak volumes of support for Gasol.

Comparing Gasol, Noah, Bynum & Lopez

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gasolma01&y1=2010&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2010&p4=noahjo01&y4=2010

Mile High Champ
09-09-2010, 09:25 AM
For those of you that are saying Kaman or Al Jefferson. You should look at the numbers. Kaman was pretty bad across the board last year. Jefferson was not very efficent either..

Comparing Gasol, Bynum, Jefferson & Kaman

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gasolma01&y1=2010&p2=kamanch01&y2=2010&p3=bynuman01&y3=2010&p4=jeffeal01&y4=2010

mikantsass
09-09-2010, 09:38 AM
Bynum when healthy is a beast on both ends.

I can understand votes for Kaman, Gasol and Lopez too. But there is no way in hell Noah should be considered here.

LakersIn5
09-09-2010, 09:41 AM
bynum
gasol
lopez
in that order..
gasol,lopez,noah put up good stats on weak/okay teams and yet their stats arent that much better than bynum who is playing on a championship squad..

lavilevi23
09-09-2010, 09:41 AM
Brook Lopez

Mile High Champ
09-09-2010, 09:42 AM
bynum
gasol
lopez
in that order..
gasol,lopez,noah put up good stats on weak/okay teams and yet their stats arent that much better than bynum who is playing on a championship squad..

Gasol stats are better across the board though than Bynum.

chuckdaily85
09-09-2010, 09:45 AM
Gasol is also the fourth option on his team behind Gay, Mayo, & Zach...so he's not facing the same type of defenses Brook and Al Jefferson are facing. Marc is clearly a better offensive center than Noah but Noah is a diff type of player. The energy & heart he brings to the bulls is he key aspect not so much skill, kind of like how Ben Wallace was with the Pistons. With that said I voted for Brook.

Mile High Champ
09-09-2010, 09:48 AM
Gasol is also the fourth option on his team behind Gay, Mayo, & Zach...so he's not facing the same type of defenses Brook and Al Jefferson are facing. Marc is clearly a better offensive center than Noah but Noah is a diff type of player. The energy & heart he brings to the bulls is he key aspect not so much skill, kind of like how Ben Wallace was with the Pistons. With that said I voted for Brook.

Gasol is not ignored when he is on the court though. You make it sound like people are leaving him and gets open looks all night. That is simply not the case. Noah's offensive skill is too weak to offset his great defensive presence, he is simply not a top 5 center because his offensive is not up to snub.

Brook Lopez has perhaps the worst numbers and averages amongst all the centers in discussion for #4 yet he is winning? I don't get it. Espeically when he put up those inflated PPG and RPB because his team was utter garbage last year.

pebloemer
09-09-2010, 09:49 AM
Between Bynum and Horford for me right now.

I tried making a case for Al Jefferson, because I feel he has had a couple rough seasons with a big injury, adjusting to a new system, being on an atrocious team, etc. But even if I go back a couple years I can't make a case for him. But I do feel his numbers will improve playing in Utah next season. But I can't pick him on that hunch.

Bynum concerns me with injury history. It is frequent and every year. Healthy, he is easily #4 for me. But since his history works against him here, a discussion is needed.

Horford, although playing out of position, has strong, consistent numbers at the C position. Comparing him with Bynum and Gasol, he has comparable numbers, while boasting better rebounding rates and WS. I really don't think he should be lost in the discussion.

Mile High made a good case for Gasol. He has business being in the discussion.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jeffeal01&y1=2008&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=horfoal01&y3=2010&p4=gasolma01&y4=2010

Lopez and Kaman could have cases as well.

Tough vote here.

I'll hear more cases before voting.

Ragun
09-09-2010, 09:50 AM
kaman.

brook lopez? seriously? wow.

sixers247
09-09-2010, 09:53 AM
I hate him but had to go with Bynum here. i love Gasol and he will get my next vote. I jsut think Bynum is a notch above personally. I know the numbers dont prove it. And come on Kaman and Noah?????

NBA-GMaster
09-09-2010, 09:53 AM
Bynum

chuckdaily85
09-09-2010, 10:00 AM
Gasol is not ignored when he is on the court though. You make it sound like people are leaving him and gets open looks all night. That is simply not the case. Noah's offensive skill is too weak to offset his great defensive presence, he is simply not a top 5 center because his offensive is not up to snub.

Brook Lopez has perhaps the worst numbers and averages amongst all the centers in discussion for #4 yet he is winning? I don't get it. Espeically when he put up those inflated PPG and RPB because his team was utter garbage last year.

Never said ppl leave him open but if you know basketball if your the 4th option your not getting consistent double teams on a regular basis. He had four guys that could avg 20 ppg easily so he didnt get all the defensive attention. Now brook on the other hand was on the worst team in the league the other star on his team (Devin Harris) was injured for most of the year so it let teams double and clamp the paint which makes it harder to score on a consistent basis.

chuckdaily85
09-09-2010, 10:02 AM
I cant count Bynum b/c he's played in 150 games the last 3 seasons which is 246 games long.

GMEN4EVER
09-09-2010, 10:06 AM
Gasol stats are better across the board though than Bynum.

Actually, they aren't. Do you have a man crush on Gasol man? Bynum plays 5 minutes per game less than Gasol. He scores more points per game in fewer minutes! Not to mention, when you adjust for minutes played he blocks just as much, rebounds more per minute, and fouls less. He also turns the ball over slightly less than Gasol. When healthy, there's no contest who is better. The only argument I can see for Gasol is based on bynum's injury history. There's not much of a statistical argument to make. Gasol shoots 1 percent higher from the field, but is 7 percent worse from the free throw line, so even in scoring efficiency he has no edge.

I can't see anything that shows Gasol is better if you base it on a per minute basis. And before you get all caught up in that playing fewer minutes is a bad thing, keep in mind Bynum plays in a 3 man rotation at the PF and C spot, with all 3 guys getting major playing time. That's a big reason why he only plays around 30 minutes per game rather than 35+. And from a purely watching the game perspective, Bynum is a better low post defender than Gasol is. If Gasol added about 20 pounds of muscle maybe that would change, until then i've got Bynum ahead in every major category that matters for a center, except injury history. And i'd like to think a 22 yr old big man who is just now reaching his full physical development will probably have a better bill of health the next few years compared to what he's been through the past few years.

BigEasy1323
09-09-2010, 10:09 AM
No love for Noah? I went with Lopez on this but I think Noah should get one of the next few spots. If your team does not have a dominant big man on your team (big inside threat and top notch rebounders are at a premium in the league nowadays) you want Noah. His jumpshot and foul shooting has improved leaps and bounds and he has developed a hook shot. He is not as awful as some people suggest inside (mind you when he first entered the league he was). I would take the x-factors he brings over a big who scores 14-15 pts with only 8 to 9 rebounds. He isn't pretty but there is a reason the Bulls were the top rebounding team yet being undersized.

DaBUU
09-09-2010, 10:19 AM
Bynum

DaBUU
09-09-2010, 10:21 AM
No love for Noah? I went with Lopez on this but I think Noah should get one of the next few spots. If your team does not have a dominant big man on your team (big inside threat and top notch rebounders are at a premium in the league nowadays) you want Noah. His jumpshot and foul shooting has improved leaps and bounds and he has developed a hook shot. He is not as awful as some people suggest inside (mind you when he first entered the league he was). I would take the x-factors he brings over a big who scores 14-15 pts with only 8 to 9 rebounds. He isn't pretty but there is a reason the Bulls were the top rebounding team yet being undersized.

dont even waste your key strokes, no one will agree cuz hes a Bull. Lopez is very overrated on here.

Raoul Duke
09-09-2010, 10:23 AM
Wow. I can't even vote. Taking a microscope to the NBA's current list of top tier C's is just flat out depressing.

arkanian215
09-09-2010, 10:28 AM
Here are some of the more popular choices for #4. These are their performances against the "best" defenses in the league. By best I mean, when adjusting for pace, the team that gives up the fewest points per game is the best defensive team, second fewest -> second best defensive team and so on. I took their performances against the top 15 defensive teams in the league.


Player Games Min FG FGA FG% TS% FT FTA OReb TReb Asts Blks PFs Pts Ast%
Andrew Bynum 27 30.2 157 289 54.33% 57.66% 2.5 3.6 3.0 8.4 1.1 1.4 1.6 14.1 59%
Marc Gasol 31 35.4 146 268 54.48% 59.57% 3.8 5.6 2.7 8.9 2.1 1.5 2.0 13.2 63%
Brook Lopez 42 37.5 281 573 49.04% 56.95% 5.4 6.5 3.1 8.3 2.0 1.4 2.5 18.8 57%
Joakim Noah 32 30.2 131 260 50.38% 56.09% 2.6 3.3 3.1 10.3 1.9 1.6 1.7 10.8 56%

Niro
09-09-2010, 10:30 AM
i like marc gasol

DaBUU
09-09-2010, 10:32 AM
Here are some of the more popular choices for #4. These are their performances against the "best" defenses in the league. By best I mean, when adjusting for pace, the team that gives up the fewest points per game is the best defensive team, second fewest -> second best defensive team and so on. I took their performances against the top 15 defensive teams in the league.


Player Games Min FG FGA FG% TS% FT FTA OReb TReb Asts Blks PFs Pts
Andrew Bynum 27 30.2 157 289 54.33% 57.66% 2.5 3.6 3.0 8.4 1.1 1.4 1.6 14.1
Marc Gasol 31 35.4 146 268 54.48% 59.57% 3.8 5.6 2.7 8.9 2.1 1.5 2.0 13.2
Brook Lopez 42 37.5 281 573 49.04% 56.95% 5.4 6.5 3.1 8.3 2.0 1.4 2.5 18.8
Joakim Noah 32 30.2 131 260 50.38% 56.09% 2.6 3.3 3.1 10.3 1.9 1.6 1.7 10.8



Noah stacks up good to me. And what separates him from the other guys on this list is his agility, ability to handle the ball and initiate the break end to end, constantly beat his man down, guard at the perimeter (see playoffs where he took Lebron at the key) and lastly he has way more hair than any of these guys. Wish i wasn't being a self hating Bulls fan this morning and go back and change my vote.

Angel2Maverick
09-09-2010, 10:46 AM
Bynum

mavwar53
09-09-2010, 11:05 AM
How can bynum even be considered here, I'd take Lopez, Gasol, Noah, and Horford before bynum, all he does is get injured, if injuries aren't factored Oden must be #5

bigsams50
09-09-2010, 11:27 AM
Bynum.

AIsixersFK
09-09-2010, 11:58 AM
I went with Lopez. Honestly Bynum hasn't really proved anything to me other than the fact people keep saying he has "potential." Yes he does but he hasn't fully lived up to it which is not his fault due to injuries. Lopez has been very good since he came to the NBA. Posts impressive numbers and I think he will see his first all-star appearance this season.

Sadds The Gr8
09-09-2010, 12:19 PM
The Caveman.

ChiSox219
09-09-2010, 12:21 PM
Marc Gasol or Al Horford

Khalifa21
09-09-2010, 12:27 PM
4. Brook Lopez
5. Marc Gasol
6. Andrew Bynum

still1ballin
09-09-2010, 12:36 PM
Gasol stats are better across the board though than Bynum.

Do you think of Marc Gasol played on the lakers, his stats would be the same?

Pierzynski4Prez
09-09-2010, 12:39 PM
Do you think of Marc Gasol played on the lakers, his stats would be the same?

wow those are big

Antipod
09-09-2010, 12:42 PM
4th best center in the NBA playing at the team with the worst record in years ... smth is wrong, don`t you think? :confused:

Marc Gasol

still1ballin
09-09-2010, 12:49 PM
wow those are big

u like? :drool:

Rivera
09-09-2010, 12:50 PM
marc gasol is the choice here

look at the advanced statistics hes the choice

Sadds The Gr8
09-09-2010, 12:50 PM
Do you think of Marc Gasol played on the lakers, his stats would be the same?

why not? Gasol is the 4th option, (Bynum's 3rd) on a worse offensive team

VinceCarter
09-09-2010, 12:50 PM
4th best center in the NBA playing at the team with the worst record in years ... smth is wrong, don`t you think? :confused:

Marc Gasol

4th best center playing basically by himself for more than 75% of the season being on one of the worst teams? Yes, that makes plenty of sense. It's not like the center position is as stacked as say ANY other position right now.

I guess we'll just have to wait for justification during the season when (hopefully) everyone is healthy elevating Brook's game even more.

I know this is RIGHT NOW I'm just spouting a little rant.

VinceCarter
09-09-2010, 12:52 PM
u like? :drool:

Please tell me you don't....

D-Will4Prez
09-09-2010, 12:57 PM
For those of you that are saying Kaman or Al Jefferson. You should look at the numbers. Kaman was pretty bad across the board last year. Jefferson was not very efficent either..

Comparing Gasol, Bynum, Jefferson & Kaman

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gasolma01&y1=2010&p2=kamanch01&y2=2010&p3=bynuman01&y3=2010&p4=jeffeal01&y4=2010

Al Jefferson was also coming off of a TORN ACL, Gasol and Lopez were better last season but Jefferson will prove to be the better player overall. Wouldn't mind Brook Lopez taking this spot though.

Mile High Champ
09-09-2010, 01:00 PM
Actually, they aren't. Do you have a man crush on Gasol man? Bynum plays 5 minutes per game less than Gasol. He scores more points per game in fewer minutes! Not to mention, when you adjust for minutes played he blocks just as much, rebounds more per minute, and fouls less. He also turns the ball over slightly less than Gasol. When healthy, there's no contest who is better. The only argument I can see for Gasol is based on bynum's injury history. There's not much of a statistical argument to make. Gasol shoots 1 percent higher from the field, but is 7 percent worse from the free throw line, so even in scoring efficiency he has no edge.

I can't see anything that shows Gasol is better if you base it on a per minute basis. And before you get all caught up in that playing fewer minutes is a bad thing, keep in mind Bynum plays in a 3 man rotation at the PF and C spot, with all 3 guys getting major playing time. That's a big reason why he only plays around 30 minutes per game rather than 35+. And from a purely watching the game perspective, Bynum is a better low post defender than Gasol is. If Gasol added about 20 pounds of muscle maybe that would change, until then i've got Bynum ahead in every major category that matters for a center, except injury history. And i'd like to think a 22 yr old big man who is just now reaching his full physical development will probably have a better bill of health the next few years compared to what he's been through the past few years.


I could care less who averages more ppg or gets more rebounds. Its a wash in my opinion. Zach Randolph averaged over 10 a game for the Grizz, did you really expect Gasol to put up 10 or more as well? He was guarding the other teams best big night in and night out. His 9.5 Rebounds per game are very impressive.

You are looking at the wrong stats. Compare Bynum and Gasol in stats that matter. Gasol has Bynum beat in eFG% and ts%. Both key stats to determine how good a player is on offense and how efficent he truly is. Granted Bynums are impressive but Gasol's are simply better. Also look at OTRG. Gasol is off the charts with 121. The next closest is Bynum with 117. Another key stat is win shares, Gasol has him beat in that category as well. Both players TR% and Block% is almost idential. I just don't see how Bynum is better when you look at the stats closely. Yes Bynum should be in the top 5 or 6 but he is not better than Gasol.

The fact that Bynum cannot stay healthy is another huge conern, how can he be top 4 if he never on the court? Bynum does not play 35 + minutes because of his health. He simply can't. It has nothing to do with the lakers system. Phil Jackson limits his mpg over health concerns so I can care less about per minute averages as a result.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gasolma01&y1=2010&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2010&p4=noahjo01&y4=2010

Mile High Champ
09-09-2010, 01:03 PM
marc gasol is the choice here

look at the advanced statistics hes the choice

People like to ignore stats that matter for some reason.. :crazy:

Chicagofaithful
09-09-2010, 01:13 PM
Chris Kaman gets no love...

D-Will4Prez
09-09-2010, 01:14 PM
People like to ignore stats that matter for some reason.. :crazy:
take a look that per 36 minutes and tell me who is the better player.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jeffeal01&y1=2009&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2010&p4=gasolma01&y4=2010

This is Al Jefferson 2 seasons ago (his last healthy season) vs lopez, gasol, and bynum last season.

Who is better? :rolleyes:

still1ballin
09-09-2010, 01:14 PM
why not? Gasol is the 4th option, (Bynum's 3rd) on a worse offensive team

If Marc Gasol played with a Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Ron Artest and a Lamar Odom, his numbers IMO would not be the same as his is avg. now with Memphis.

still1ballin
09-09-2010, 01:14 PM
Please tell me you don't....

I do:)

LakersIn5
09-09-2010, 01:16 PM
I could care less who averages more ppg or gets more rebounds. Its a wash in my opinion. Zach Randolph averaged over 10 a game for the Grizz, did you really expect Gasol to put up 10 or more as well? He was guarding the other teams best big night in and night out. His 9.5 Rebounds per game are very impressive.

You are looking at the wrong stats. Compare Bynum and Gasol in stats that matter. Gasol has Bynum beat in eFG% and ts%. Both key stats to determine how good a player is on offense and how efficent he truly is. Granted Bynums are impressive but Gasol's are simply better. Also look at OTRG. Gasol is off the charts with 121. The next closest is Bynum with 117. Another key stat is win shares, Gasol has him beat in that category as well. Both players TR% and Block% is almost idential. I just don't see how Bynum is better when you look at the stats closely. Yes Bynum should be in the top 5 or 6 but he is not better than Gasol.

The fact that Bynum cannot stay healthy is another huge conern, how can he be top 4 if he never on the court? Bynum does not play 35 + minutes because of his health. He simply can't. It has nothing to do with the lakers system. Phil Jackson limits his mpg over health concerns so I can care less about per minute averages as a result.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gasolma01&y1=2010&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2010&p4=noahjo01&y4=2010

how can yao be top 2 if didnt even play a single game last season? :D and bynum can play 35+ minutes in because the lakers a big man off the bench who also play 30+ minutes thats why bynum gets limited minutes.

Avenged
09-09-2010, 01:19 PM
Ouch! Brook is actually winning this? :confused:

arkanian215
09-09-2010, 01:20 PM
lol B. Lo winning so far. Where's that kid who said Brook wasn't even the best Lopez?

Sadds The Gr8
09-09-2010, 01:24 PM
If Marc Gasol played with a Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Ron Artest and a Lamar Odom, his numbers IMO would not be the same as his is avg. now with Memphis.

well I think they would, but it's all "if, and's, or but's". We'll never know.

AIsixersFK
09-09-2010, 01:27 PM
lol b. Lo winning so far. where's that kid who said brook wasn't even the best lopez?

fail

pebloemer
09-09-2010, 01:28 PM
I've had a tough time taking injury history into account. I couldn't bring myself to vote for Yao #2 so I went with Bogut, and now I can't bring myself to vote Bynum #4, so I'll go with Horford. I guess I just don't trust the health of players over 7 feet tall with injury histories.

Gasol took a lot of consideration here for me, but I elected to go with the player I've watched more often. Their stats are comparable. Surprised Horford has so few votes.

Horford
Gasol
Bynum
Lopez
Jefferson
Noah

is how I rank the next 6.

VinceCarter
09-09-2010, 01:29 PM
take a look that per 36 minutes and tell me who is the better player.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jeffeal01&y1=2009&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2010&p4=gasolma01&y4=2010

This is Al Jefferson 2 seasons ago (his last healthy season) vs lopez, gasol, and bynum last season.

Who is better? :rolleyes:

50 games is healthy?! :speechless:

Maybe for Greg Oden.

D-Will4Prez
09-09-2010, 01:35 PM
50 games is healthy?! :speechless:

Maybe for Greg Oden.

Hey he was perfectly healthy for all 50 of those games, then he tore his ACL :p

And if I had used the season before that (the only season where he played in all 82 games), the per 36 minute stats would still be almost identical.

VinceCarter
09-09-2010, 01:38 PM
After looking at those advanced stats and just simply picking up on the fact that Lopez played all 82 games compared to Gasol's 69 and Bynum's 65 is huge. Lopez played 13 games more than Gasol and 17 more than Bynum. Making it that much harder to maintain good stats.

Also Lopez being on that Nets team last season just makes it that much harder on him without Harris for most of the season and getting double teamed every game.

xbrackattackx
09-09-2010, 01:49 PM
No love for Noah? I went with Lopez on this but I think Noah should get one of the next few spots. If your team does not have a dominant big man on your team (big inside threat and top notch rebounders are at a premium in the league nowadays) you want Noah. His jumpshot and foul shooting has improved leaps and bounds and he has developed a hook shot. He is not as awful as some people suggest inside (mind you when he first entered the league he was). I would take the x-factors he brings over a big who scores 14-15 pts with only 8 to 9 rebounds. He isn't pretty but there is a reason the Bulls were the top rebounding team yet being undersized.

Your Sig makes my **** tingle..No Homo!

still1ballin
09-09-2010, 01:53 PM
Chris Kaman gets no love...

Hey, can you tell Corey Matthews I said Hi!!! :)

Lake_Show2416
09-09-2010, 01:57 PM
bynum's the 4th (cant think about the injuries)

bynum has better defense, rebounding and has a better offensive post game

lopez has inflated stats from playing on that garbage team

Sadds The Gr8
09-09-2010, 02:04 PM
Hey, can you tell Corey Matthews I said Hi!!! :)

holy **** those boobs are huge....i just noticed

Mile High Champ
09-09-2010, 02:21 PM
After looking at those advanced stats and just simply picking up on the fact that Lopez played all 82 games compared to Gasol's 69 and Bynum's 65 is huge. Lopez played 13 games more than Gasol and 17 more than Bynum. Making it that much harder to maintain good stats.

Also Lopez being on that Nets team last season just makes it that much harder on him without Harris for most of the season and getting double teamed every game.

Thats not a reason to vote for Lopez. Playing 70 games in a season is healthy enough for me. I really dont expect any from you other than vote for Lopez. Its the homer pick. His stats do not reflect that he should be number 4 here.

D-Will4Prez
09-09-2010, 03:16 PM
IMO it should be:
4. Lopez
5. Jefferson
6. Gasol
7. Bynum
8. Kaman

last 2 spots are pretty much a toss up between Noah, Horford, Bargs, and Perkins

Steelers23_06
09-09-2010, 03:31 PM
i voted lopez but it would hands down be bynum IF he could stay healthy il ike the way PF's and C's have been handle through psd not much complaints from me the pg-sf were a little shaky though lol

The Miami Cheat
09-09-2010, 03:34 PM
gasol

Hawkeye15
09-09-2010, 03:37 PM
cant go wrong with Bynum or Gasol here. I went Bynum, his win share contributions led to a championship. Pretty much the only time I factor in winning. When two players are very similar, the one who contributes to a contender wins.
But I wouldn't even bother arguing Marc here, he is worthy for sure

BigEasy1323
09-09-2010, 04:15 PM
I could care less who averages more ppg or gets more rebounds. Its a wash in my opinion. Zach Randolph averaged over 10 a game for the Grizz, did you really expect Gasol to put up 10 or more as well? He was guarding the other teams best big night in and night out. His 9.5 Rebounds per game are very impressive.

You are looking at the wrong stats. Compare Bynum and Gasol in stats that matter. Gasol has Bynum beat in eFG% and ts%. Both key stats to determine how good a player is on offense and how efficent he truly is. Granted Bynums are impressive but Gasol's are simply better. Also look at OTRG. Gasol is off the charts with 121. The next closest is Bynum with 117. Another key stat is win shares, Gasol has him beat in that category as well. Both players TR% and Block% is almost idential. I just don't see how Bynum is better when you look at the stats closely. Yes Bynum should be in the top 5 or 6 but he is not better than Gasol.

The fact that Bynum cannot stay healthy is another huge conern, how can he be top 4 if he never on the court? Bynum does not play 35 + minutes because of his health. He simply can't. It has nothing to do with the lakers system. Phil Jackson limits his mpg over health concerns so I can care less about per minute averages as a result.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gasolma01&y1=2010&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2010&p4=noahjo01&y4=2010

After looking at the advanced stats I want to take back my Lopez vote. He is not much better than Noah offensively (advanced stats wise) while being the bottom of the 4 defensively. I would probably go with Gasol at this point followed by Bynum then Noah. Contrary to some individuals beliefs I am of the train of thought that being the best player on a bad team leads to inflated stats. (when voting I was blinded by his inflated numbers). Thanks for the comparison

Chronz
09-09-2010, 04:50 PM
Weve seen what a FULLY healthy Bynum can do and have yet to see his peak form. Can we really expect Gasol to make the leap Bynum should? Odds are against it, and even if it never came the comparison offensively should go in Bynums favor. Higher usage% on a team that was great offensively with him in the lineup. Gasol has more win shares but its based on the fact that he played more minutes. Are we expecting Bynum to continue getting hurt or will the Lakers depth prevent him from logging the PT aside from that I dont see how you could hold that against him when its clear when healthy Bynum is the winner. The fact that I consider him to be a stud on defense makes this a no brainer for me. I thought he was better than Bogut but he has a much stronger case than Gasol.

Chronz
09-09-2010, 04:57 PM
After looking at the advanced stats I want to take back my Lopez vote. He is not much better than Noah offensively (advanced stats wise) while being the bottom of the 4 defensively. I would probably go with Gasol at this point followed by Bynum then Noah. Contrary to some individuals beliefs I am of the train of thought that being the best player on a bad team leads to inflated stats. (when voting I was blinded by his inflated numbers). Thanks for the comparison

Relax bro its not a given that his #'s are inflated. Besides the Advanced Stats show they are within the same ball park. This is a perfect case of efficiency vs usage. Notice how everyone is spread apart pretty evenly. Lower usage guys have higher efficiency and higher efficiency guys have lower usages. Not surprisingly WinShares favors the efficient guys and PER favors the chuckers. Which one has it closer to the truth depends on what you think the stats are missing but on the surface things are clear.

PER favors Brook over Gasol
WinShares favors Gasol over Brook

The only common ground the 2 stand on is Bynums supremacy, he ranks first in both metrics.

Without going into detail there is no wrong choice here, atleast not statistically. Well unless your choosing Noah.

Brooklyn Mets
09-09-2010, 05:03 PM
i hate to say Lopez here only because i think that his game isnt as fully developed as someone like AlJeff, Kaman, Gasol, etc. but Lopez is a beast and could dominate the low post on both sides of the ball

Jewelz0376
09-09-2010, 05:08 PM
It was between Jefferson and Lopez for me, but I had to go with Jefferson... Its hard for me to imagine that Lopez is the 4 best center in the league yet couldn't win more than 12 games?? Although Jefferson only won 15 lol...so it was really a toss up for me... The both rebound the same but AL is a beast in the post.. I went with Al but it could easily by Lopez it was close for me

Jets012
09-09-2010, 05:25 PM
kaman.

brook lopez? seriously? wow.

Why not Brook Lopez

td0tsfinest
09-09-2010, 05:54 PM
I accidentally chose Lopez instead of Gasol. :(

Gators123
09-09-2010, 05:57 PM
I accidentally chose Lopez instead of Gasol. :(

Great job, you tainted the poll :pity:







:D

arkanian215
09-09-2010, 06:03 PM
We need some Lakers fans in here to fix this poll.

homestarunner93
09-09-2010, 06:31 PM
Bulls homers and Lakers homers=embarrassments to PSD.

Avenged
09-09-2010, 07:10 PM
Brook Lopez is actually going to win this.. :sigh:

td0tsfinest
09-09-2010, 07:19 PM
Brook Lopez is actually going to win this.. :sigh:

It could be worse :shrug:

VinceCarter
09-09-2010, 07:26 PM
Brook Lopez got double teamed A LOT last year. I'm sure you can't say that about people like Gasol or Bynum....:eyebrow:

You guys have to look beyond the stats sometimes (when they're close at least) when coming to a final decision.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-09-2010, 07:49 PM
aljeff by a lot. brook lopez is soft

What?
09-09-2010, 07:56 PM
Accidentally voted for Noah because I forgot about Gasol. Brook Lopez winning this is a joke Marc Gasol is defiantly the best player up there followed by noah followed by bynum. averaging 8.5 rpg when the next best rebounder is Yi jianlian. Noah averaged 11 with a better rebounder in Gibson as competition. Gasol averaged 14/10 while competing with Randolph for boards and being the 4th option even though he is probably the 2nd best player on his team if not they best.

Enemey
09-10-2010, 08:43 AM
How long did it take the nets to get their first win? How many times did they get blown out by half time and Brook Lopez got his points and rebounds due to playing Garbage minutes?

todu82
09-10-2010, 09:06 AM
Andrew Bynum

Iggz53
09-10-2010, 09:08 AM
This was a very hard one for me but I went with Lopez. I think he suffers quite a bit defensively because of the rest of the Nets players and offensively, he's a true talent.

Like I said, it was a close call but Gasol doesn't fare well at all defensively against even somewhat mobile centers, Noah doesn't have great offense, Bynum is way too inconsistent, Horford is sort of out of position, and Kaman has been pretty inefficient and lackadaisical defensively lately. Jefferson and Bargs aren't even in contention imo.

Hawkeye15
09-10-2010, 10:00 AM
#5 is up. Thanks for voting