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Mile High Champ
09-08-2010, 10:06 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last two years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. It is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

I have skipped the number 1 poll as Howard was the obvious choice. I did the same thing with Lebron James at SF. I am trying to save some time as there is still the top 10 best players in the league list after the centers. Thanks for understanding.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


2009 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Shaquille O'Neal
5) Andrea Bargnani
6) Andris Biedrins
7) Emeka Okafor
8) Nene
9) Brook Lopez
10) Andrew Bynum

2008 Off-Season C Rankings:

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Andrew Bynum
5) Chris Kaman
6) Tyson Chandler
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Marcus Camby
9) Jermaine O'neal
10) Andrew Bogut

Mile High Champ
09-08-2010, 10:09 AM
Poll is now up. If bogut runs away with it early, we will close it and move on to number 4.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 10:10 AM
Bogut for me

Mile High Champ
09-08-2010, 10:11 AM
I would be curious to know why guys like Bynum, Noah etc are getting votes instead of Bogut. Anyone care to defend their pick or are they simply homer picks?

TheWatcher34
09-08-2010, 10:13 AM
Bogut, after couple of years he finally could live up to the expectations of getting drafted so high. then Lopez at #4....
Laker fans, please stop voting for Bynum, what has he done so far to be called the 3rd best center in the league???

TheWatcher34
09-08-2010, 10:16 AM
..and Bulls fans, if any of you vote for Noah as the 3rd best center in the league...then i am right when i say that you know nothing about basketball, but "Air Jordan". got it?

Revolu7i9n
09-08-2010, 10:24 AM
ahhh CRAP didn't even see bogut.. change that shiz from noah to bogut! :(

Pierzynski4Prez
09-08-2010, 10:28 AM
..and Bulls fans, if any of you vote for Noah as the 3rd best center in the league...then i am right when i say that you now nothing about basketball, but "Air Jordan". got it?

After reading that post, even if they did vote Noah, I would say they "now" more about grammar than you my friend. Got it?

by the way, I didn't vote Noah. He is 6-8 in my book.

b_russ
09-08-2010, 10:32 AM
I'd take Okur over a few of those guys. Just sayn'

Raidaz4Life
09-08-2010, 10:35 AM
I would be curious to know why guys like Bynum, Noah etc are getting votes instead of Bogut. Anyone care to defend their pick or are they simply homer picks?

I actually think that when healthy Bynum is a lot closer than most people give him credit for... but thats just the thing "when healthy"

mikantsass
09-08-2010, 10:38 AM
Lol at the Noah votes. That is insane.

I went Bynum here, simply because we dont know how Bogut will respond returning from his injury.

tcav701
09-08-2010, 10:43 AM
Who the hell is voting for Noah????

I am considering never returning to this site again.

The Miami Cheat
09-08-2010, 10:48 AM
bogut

TheWatcher34
09-08-2010, 10:52 AM
After reading that post, even if they did vote Noah, I would say they "now" more about grammar than you my friend. Got it?

by the way, I didn't vote Noah. He is 6-8 in my book.

k... fixed.

next time i will have to run the spell checker after typing my post on PSD. ohh wait... there is none?

anyways, your assessment of Noah is accurate. :clap:

We could have a discussion about him being on of the top hustlers and rebounders in the league.. therefore we will have to make a new thread.

Mile High Champ
09-08-2010, 10:59 AM
I dont understand why one of mods moved this here. I am trying to fix it now.

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 11:10 AM
I personally voted for Noah because i believe he is the prototypical center of the future. I could of went with Bynum and Bogut, both may deserve the spot also. IMO both are hurt a lot and Bogut has to stay healthy and keep up his production before I'm sold. Noah is a 7 ft center who is one of the best defensive and rebounding big men in the game. Hes agile, has a high BB IQ, and he's able to initiate the break and beat the opposing center down the court on every transition. Bogut and Bynum can do neither of those things. They may be better offensive post players, but defensively its a toss up between the the 3, imo. Go ahead and start with your Bulls hate, but i just laid out a compelling argument.

Ragun
09-08-2010, 11:13 AM
bogut when healthy...al jeff is good but he isnt a center.

mikantsass
09-08-2010, 11:44 AM
I personally voted for Noah because i believe he is the prototypical center of the future. I could of went with Bynum and Bogut, both may deserve the spot also. IMO both are hurt a lot and Bogut has to stay healthy and keep up his production before I'm sold. Noah is a 7 ft center who is one of the best defensive and rebounding big men in the game. Hes agile, has a high BB IQ, and he's able to initiate the break and beat the opposing center down the court on every transition. Bogut and Bynum can do neither of those things. They may be better offensive post players, but defensively its a toss up between the the 3, imo. Go ahead and start with your Bulls hate, but i just laid out a compelling argument.

I do like how you presented your case. However I think you are crazy. If Noah was not on the Bulls you would not feel that way. I would take everyone on that list over Noah for my STARTING center except Shaq, Bargnangi, and Biedrins

ChiSox219
09-08-2010, 11:48 AM
Bogut

The second tier Centers will be interesting: Gasol, Horford, and Nene are almost interchangeable at this point. Some might even throw Bynum on that list.

Third tier will be interesting as well, though something tell me Jefferson and/or Kaman sneak into the second tier.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 12:09 PM
I personally voted for Noah because i believe he is the prototypical center of the future. I could of went with Bynum and Bogut, both may deserve the spot also. IMO both are hurt a lot and Bogut has to stay healthy and keep up his production before I'm sold. Noah is a 7 ft center who is one of the best defensive and rebounding big men in the game. Hes agile, has a high BB IQ, and he's able to initiate the break and beat the opposing center down the court on every transition. Bogut and Bynum can do neither of those things. They may be better offensive post players, but defensively its a toss up between the the 3, imo. Go ahead and start with your Bulls hate, but i just laid out a compelling argument.

I appreciate you stating why you voted for Noah in a rational way, but there is no way to convince me that Noah is the #3 center in the NBA. Top 6-7? Probably. But no way is he #3.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 12:09 PM
I am honestly not saying to stir anything at all, but its sad that some players end up being higher than they should due to blatant homers.

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 12:16 PM
I appreciate you stating why you voted for Noah in a rational way, but there is no way to convince me that Noah is the #3 center in the NBA. Top 6-7? Probably. But no way is he #3.

yeah Noah being the 3rd best center in the league is a stretch i suppose. But i did leave myself an out by saying Bogut and Bynum also deserve the spot.

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 12:19 PM
I am honestly not saying to stir anything at all, but its sad that some players end up being higher than they should due to blatant homers.

not sure if your referring to me, but my opinion isn't as homerish as it might sound at first. Noah being #3 is a stretch, but he really is able to do things as a 7 footer, that 97% of 7 footers in the league cannot do (including Bogut and Bynum). Thats what my opinion is based on, with an admitted added dash of homerism. I also realize they do things offensively that he'll prolly never be able to do.

tcav701
09-08-2010, 12:22 PM
I am honestly not saying to stir anything at all, but its sad that some players end up being higher than they should due to blatant homers.

Next time we do something like this we should all agree to not vote for anyone on our favorite teams.

Orange N Blue
09-08-2010, 12:24 PM
i guess Bogut can take #3. hes finally starting to play like 2nd pick.

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 12:25 PM
Next time we do something like this we should all agree to not vote for anyone on our favorite teams.

Please tell us who you voted for and explain your reasoning.

tcav701
09-08-2010, 12:28 PM
Please tell us who you voted for and explain your reasoning.

?????

I'm not sure what this has to do with who I voted for. Don't think i'm singling you out. These polls have many players in places they do not belong due to homerism from many fan bases.

I was merely offering the suggestion that we all agree to not vote for players from our teams to get a more accurate list. If you truley think your player belongs in the spot on the poll, simply do not vote that round.

AIsixersFK
09-08-2010, 12:30 PM
After last season Bogut should run away with this

Niro
09-08-2010, 12:35 PM
lol stop voting for noah...bogut no doubt

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 12:35 PM
Who the hell is voting for Noah????

I am considering never returning to this site again.

here you go, this is ur post i'm referring too. And dont get me wrong I dont know where Joakim ranks, but according to yahoo hes #7. i do know I can make an argument when hes up against Bynum and Bogut. And If we concede Bogut and Bynum are going to be #4 and #5, then it looks like Noah will probably be #6 if we go by this early tracking. #3-#6/7 is not that big enough of a drop off to start calling people crazy.

tcav701
09-08-2010, 12:37 PM
here you go, this is ur post i'm referring too.

Ok then.

I voted for Bogut because he is the best player on the board. If you really want to deabte Bogut vs Noah we can but I suggest you do a little research yourself to save us alot of time to prove what we both already know.

Ebbs
09-08-2010, 12:42 PM
Bogut, Pez, Bynum IMO

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 12:44 PM
Ok then.

I voted for Bogut because he is the best player on the board. If you really want to deabte Bogut vs Noah we can but I suggest you do a little research yourself to save us alot of time to prove what we both already know.

No need for research, I watch the NBA. I'm not saying Bogut isnt the 3rd best center in the league, the guy was the #1 pick so he obviously has the tools. You were bashing the people who chose Noah without backing up your own opinion, thats all. No problem tho, ur a good poster and i respect your opinion.

:hi5:

tcav701
09-08-2010, 12:46 PM
No need for research, I watch the NBA. I'm not saying Bogut isnt the 3rd best center in the league, the guy was the #1 pick so he obviously has the tools. You were bashing the people who chose Noah without backing up your own opinion, thats all. No problem tho, ur a good poster and i respect your opinion.

:hi5:

No problem bro.

BTW you watching this Spain/Serbia game?

Its fantastic.

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 12:50 PM
No problem bro.

BTW you watching this Spain/Serbia game?

Its fantastic.

getting DVR'd gonna watch it later. I hate when work gets in the way of a basketball game. Not like im doing much more than posting on here right now anyway.

drama1386
09-08-2010, 12:51 PM
bogut for sure. he's definitely the best all-around center on this list.

tcav701
09-08-2010, 12:52 PM
getting DVR'd gonna watch it later. I hate when work gets in the way of a basketball game. Not like im doing much more than posting on here right now anyway.

I wont tell you what happens but I have just seen the best 4th quarter by far in this years FIBA.

Sadds The Gr8
09-08-2010, 12:55 PM
Noah votes are blantant homerism.

Rivera
09-08-2010, 12:59 PM
bogut


we should in all honesty just close this and give bogut the W

the next debate is about to get insaneeeeeeeee i can already see it

bulls fans vs laker fans

noah vs bynum while i will be voting for dampier :D

BTW no love for gortat??? i just may sneak him in my top 10 in centers cause i dont know if i can name 10 better ones off the top of my head

Antipod
09-08-2010, 01:04 PM
Spoiled ... is was clear that Bogut would be nr.3
..so i voted Kaman )
The interesting will start at around nr.5 and lower :)

stejay
09-08-2010, 01:10 PM
I'll go Bynum

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 01:15 PM
Noah votes are blantant homerism.

It really isn't blatant. All 3 of these guys deserve to be in the conversation of top 7 (B. Lopez as well). Blatant homerism is someone from Portland saying Oden is top 3. just messin Blazer fans. But I have no problem whatsoever with Bogut being #3, the guy has skills and is living up to his potential. Bucks are gonna be tough.

GMEN4EVER
09-08-2010, 01:16 PM
I would be curious to know why guys like Bynum, Noah etc are getting votes instead of Bogut. Anyone care to defend their pick or are they simply homer picks?

Honestly, i'm surprised people are voting Bogut in a land slide here. Until last season Bynum had him beat on points per game. Now last season Bogut certainly put up better stats, but the impact Bynum has on the game is pretty apparent whenever you watch the Lakers. Even on one good knee he was still a useful player in the finals against arguably the best front court in the league. Not bashing Bogut in any way, I think he's great, and certainly no worse than 4th best in the league at the center position. But as far as who would I want on my team, i'd say it's pretty close to a toss up between Bogut and Bynum.

Bogut has better rebounding numbers sure, but then again the Lakers have several other excellant rebounders on their team, so I don't give Bogut too much of a lead in the rebounding department based on the two vastly different teams they play for. Last year Bogut had more blocks, but I wouldn't be surprised if a healthy Bynum had close to as many blocks as Bogut does this year. And offensively I think Bynum has a little more skill to his game than Bogut does. Hence why he shoots about 5 percentage pts higher than Bogut does.

So overall I've got Bogut with a slight edge in rebounding and shot blocking, Bynum with the edge on ability to score with efficiency, and Bynum has more size for 1 on 1 defense against other centers. So it's a toss up to me which is better, I think they're just about even.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 01:19 PM
yeah Noah being the 3rd best center in the league is a stretch i suppose. But i did leave myself an out by saying Bogut and Bynum also deserve the spot.

on your way to becoming a lawyer haha

j/k dude

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 01:21 PM
on your way to becoming a lawyer haha

j/k dude

pays to straddle the fence

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 01:22 PM
not sure if your referring to me, but my opinion isn't as homerish as it might sound at first. Noah being #3 is a stretch, but he really is able to do things as a 7 footer, that 97% of 7 footers in the league cannot do (including Bogut and Bynum). Thats what my opinion is based on, with an admitted added dash of homerism. I also realize they do things offensively that he'll prolly never be able to do.

nah bro, I meant the position polls in general. I looked back thru them and there are a couple stretches

VinceCarter
09-08-2010, 01:24 PM
Are the Bulls and Lakers homers seriously going to know Brook Lopez out of the top 5?! :facepalm::pity::facepalm:

Brook Lopez is undoubtedly a top 4 center in the league.

Dwight
Yao
Bogut
Lopez

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 01:26 PM
getting DVR'd gonna watch it later. I hate when work gets in the way of a basketball game. Not like im doing much more than posting on here right now anyway.

work has become a very big inconvienence in my life

tcav701
09-08-2010, 01:28 PM
Are the Bulls and Lakers homers seriously going to know Brook Lopez out of the top 5?! :facepalm::pity::facepalm:

Brook Lopez is undoubtedly a top 4 center in the league.

Dwight
Yao
Bogut
Lopez

i get what you're saying but you can't call out Bulls and Lakers fans for being homers and follow it with your own homer statement....

VinceCarter
09-08-2010, 01:30 PM
i get what you're saying but you can't call out Bulls and Lakers fans for being homers and follow it with your own homer statement....

Brook Lopez being a top 4 center is not a homer statment. :eyebrow:

goeatfish63
09-08-2010, 01:32 PM
all i hope is that everyone voting for bogut chooses lopez for #4. this whole poll would turn into a joke if noah or bynum get #4

tcav701
09-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Brook Lopez being a top 4 center is not a homer statment. :eyebrow:

Saying Lopez is UNDOUBTABLY #4 on this poll is a homer statement. From 4-8 could arguably go in ANY order between a few players.

pebloemer
09-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Bogut running away with it. Time for #4 :).

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 01:34 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bogutan01&y1=2010&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=noahjo01&y3=2010

comparison for the three leaders. Since they are all elite defenders, we have to factor in the rebounding dominance of Bynum and Noah over Bogut. But Bogut is a better defender all around, his defensive range extends well out of the paint on shows, and pick and roll defense. Offensively, Bogut is efficient, runs the floor, can hit midrange to an extent, and is more polished than the other two.
However, looking at this comparison, its clear Bynum is #4. At least to me

pebloemer
09-08-2010, 01:34 PM
Brook Lopez being a top 4 center is not a homer statment. :eyebrow:

I'm not convinced Lopez is better than Horford, Jefferson, Bynum and Gasol. He is certainly in the discussion, but it is definitely not a given.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 01:34 PM
Brook Lopez being a top 4 center is not a homer statment. :eyebrow:

nope. just incorrect.

King Drew
09-08-2010, 01:35 PM
idk i voted for jefferson but boguts getting better

Fmaranesi
09-08-2010, 01:38 PM
Are the Bulls and Lakers homers seriously going to know Brook Lopez out of the top 5?! :facepalm::pity::facepalm:

Brook Lopez is undoubtedly a top 4 center in the league.

Dwight
Yao
Bogut
Lopez

I wouldn't go as far as saying undoubtedly , I would rather have Kaman, Noah, Perkins, Bynum, Jefferson and Gasol over him right now but if Brook can continue to progress then I don't see how he won't be a top 4 center in the league.

Rivera
09-08-2010, 01:38 PM
even tho horford isnt a true center he just plays one on tv horford is a better player than lopez

if it were true centers there would be an argument but with the likes of horford and jefferson on the poll i can see lopez slip all the way to 9 (horford, jefferson, then the bynum and noah) homers may out# the "swing" voters

VinceCarter
09-08-2010, 01:39 PM
I'm not convinced Lopez is better than Horford, Jefferson, Bynum and Gasol. He is certainly in the discussion, but it is definitely not a given.

Horford is out of position. Al Jefferson should be on the PF poll considering he won't be the Jazz starting center this year (that's Okur's spot). So there's two out of the running.

Bynum you are unsure of because he is always getting injured. And Gasol is up and coming I think he is quite underrated.

I don't know how you can ignore Lopez at the #4 spot though.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 01:40 PM
Horford is out of position. Al Jefferson should be on the PF poll considering he won't be the Jazz starting center this year (that's Okur's spot). So there's two out of the running.

Bynum you are unsure of because he is always getting injured. And Gasol is up and coming I think he is quite underrated.

I don't know how you can ignore Lopez at the #4 spot though.

what is Lopez's status anyways? Mono, etc. Has he gained some weight back?

tcav701
09-08-2010, 01:41 PM
Horford is out of position. Al Jefferson should be on the PF poll considering he won't be the Jazz starting center this year (that's Okur's spot). So there's two out of the running.

Bynum you are unsure of because he is always getting injured. And Gasol is up and coming I think he is quite underrated.

I don't know how you can ignore Lopez at the #4 spot though.

Because we all aren't Nets fans.

John Walls Era
09-08-2010, 01:41 PM
I have a feeling Noah will get into the top 5 (hes not a top 5 C, if you think that at least explain why). I think its Bogut, but I believe you could make a case for Brook and even Al (PF, but he can play both and arguably has the best post game outta the 3).

VinceCarter
09-08-2010, 01:42 PM
I wouldn't go as far as saying undoubtedly , I would rather have Kaman, Noah, Perkins, Bynum, Jefferson and Gasol over him right now but if Brook can continue to progress then I don't see how he won't be a top 4 center in the league.

Now you're just getting a little carried away. :laugh2:

Perkins will be lucky to be 8th or 9th on this poll.

I could see Jefferson.....but he's a PF. He was when he came into the league and now he is again on the Jazz. The T-Wolves were playing him out of position.

pebloemer
09-08-2010, 01:43 PM
Horford is out of position. Al Jefferson should be on the PF poll considering he won't be the Jazz starting center this year (that's Okur's spot). So there's two out of the running.
Bynum you are unsure of because he is always getting injured. And Gasol is up and coming I think he is quite underrated.

I don't know how you can ignore Lopez at the #4 spot though.

So they are disqualified from voting because they are playing out of position?

Bynum when healthy is a much better defensive presence than Lopez and a legit offensive option as well. I want that defensive presence in my Center. Health is a legit concern, I don't know where I'll vote #4 yet.

None of your arguments convince me Lopez is the undisputed #4.

Unruly Fan
09-08-2010, 01:51 PM
Kaman was HUGE last season...

Khalifa21
09-08-2010, 01:53 PM
I have a pretty big man crush on Brook Lopez so I voted him, but this is easily Bogut.

tcav701
09-08-2010, 01:54 PM
Kaman was HUGE last season...

x2

He was the only real bright spot for the Clippers and think he should at least be in the argument of the next few spots.

VinceCarter
09-08-2010, 01:55 PM
So they are disqualified from voting because they are playing out of position?

Bynum when healthy is a much better defensive presence than Lopez and a legit offensive option as well. I want that defensive presence in my Center. Health is a legit concern, I don't know where I'll vote #4 yet.

None of your arguments convince me Lopez is the undisputed #4.

Check out his ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3448) page it will enlighten you.

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 01:56 PM
i think this poll shows how guard orientated the league is getting. Slim pickin's at center.

tcav701
09-08-2010, 02:00 PM
i think this poll shows how guard orientated the league is getting. Slim pickin's at center.

Yeah.

Unfortunately the rules and officiating is making it that way. Does make for a more exciting brand but unless you are an exciting center (D-Howard for example), the rules are not in your favor and officials will not help you out.

VinceCarter
09-08-2010, 02:00 PM
And why is Lopez not a defensive presence?

Gators123
09-08-2010, 02:03 PM
Bogut

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 02:04 PM
And why is Lopez not a defensive presence?

without even going into detail, he was too frail as the season went on, and gave up a PER of over 20 to opposing centers.
He could be a good defender in the future, but he wasn't all that good last year.

tcav701
09-08-2010, 02:07 PM
And why is Lopez not a defensive presence?

Hes not a bad defender, just doesnt have the strength to handle the big boys most of the time.

VinceCarter
09-08-2010, 02:11 PM
Okay because I don't have time to get into the advanced stats but he has averaged 1.8 and 1.7 BPG in his two seasons ranking top 9 in total blocks and average each year. And I watch the games obviously and he's not soft but he could use some more strength to be the force he could be on both ends of the floor.

tcav701
09-08-2010, 02:15 PM
Okay because I don't have time to get into the advanced stats but he has averaged 1.8 and 1.7 BPG in his two seasons ranking top 9 in total blocks and average each year. And I watch the games obviously and he's not soft but he could use some more strength to be the force he could be on both ends of the floor.

So you are confusing upside with who is the best right now?

Because the poll is who is the best right now....

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 02:16 PM
Okay because I don't have time to get into the advanced stats but he has averaged 1.8 and 1.7 BPG in his two seasons ranking top 9 in total blocks and average each year. And I watch the games obviously and he's not soft but he could use some more strength to be the force he could be on both ends of the floor.

blocks per game are not the correct way to go, and that is because New Jersey's perimeter defenders have been pretty bad, allowing excess penetration, giving Brook more opportunities to block shots. Same with Al Jefferson. Someone looks at his defensive rpg, and bpg, and they would assume he can defend. When in reality, he is rewarded, statistically, with crappy perimeter guys who let players go right by them.
Brook has nice timing, but the weight loss hurt him, and I expect that to not be an issue going forward.

Mile High Champ
09-08-2010, 02:25 PM
Horford is out of position. Al Jefferson should be on the PF poll considering he won't be the Jazz starting center this year (that's Okur's spot). So there's two out of the running.
.

Please Read.

My earlier explanation to why Jefferson was put on the center poll.

My issue with the whole thing is this. I am doing the best with what I am given. I use sites like CBS sports, Fox Sports, Sporting News, Yahoo Sports, ESPN, SI and NBA.com to gather information on what position a player plays. As I have indicated to some of you already, these sites all offer very different information. Look at these links below.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/team/utah-jazz/71100
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/d.../UTA/utah-jazz
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...byLAST_NM.html
http://espn.go.com/nba/teams/depth?team=uth

Fox and CBS show Jefferson as the teams starting center. ESPN shows Jefferson as the staring PF. Sports Illustrated does not have a depth chart but they call Jefferson a F-C. Do people see how there is nothing conclusive about where Jefferson is going to play this season? Based on the fact that Jefferson STARTED most of the games last season as a center, it made that much more sense to classifly him at that position. It comes down to this, There are no givens that Jefferson will be a PF this season. Because of this I reverted him back to the position he has played most of his NBA career.

I do find it amusing that people are so up in arms about a player being classified as a center and not a PF. Some of you are actually angry it seems. I am doing the best I can here, I have done these polls for 3 years and I have enjoyed running them year in and year out. That being said, no one pays me to run them, I don't get anything for doing it, All I get from this is hearing about the discussion of the top 10 lists after they are completed.

At the end of the day is this really worth getting angry about? Its a poll conducted about NBA players on PSD, why all the frurstration?

Mile High Champ
09-08-2010, 02:27 PM
I would Take bynum or Marc Gasol over Lopez. I think Marc Gasol is perhaps the most underrated player in the NBA today. He gets no respect and is one of the most complete two way centers in the league.

49erGiantLaker
09-08-2010, 02:36 PM
Bogut

pebloemer
09-08-2010, 02:51 PM
Check out his ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3448) page it will enlighten you.

When I ask you to convince me with an argument, I am not looking for you to post incredibly basic statistics from the most popular sports site online as if I was unaware this site existed. It told me 0 new information.

GMEN4EVER
09-08-2010, 03:08 PM
Lopez is one of the most heavily over rated players in the game. There's a good reason why the nets won 12 games last year, their team is terrible. Lopez is a decent center made to look good because he plays on such a bad team. He may have scored almost 19 pts a game, but that's a very mis leading stat. I'd focus on the sub 50 percent shooting from the field. That's a very low percentage for a center or power forward. He got a good point per game stat line because the nets are just plain awful, someone had to score pts. He's average defensively at best, mostly because he's not very athletic. Someone else alluded to other centers posting a per over 20 playing against him. That's a better measure of his defensive capabilities or lack thereof than blocks per game is.

He's a borderline top 10 center, which says more about the lack of great big men in the game than it does about Lopez being that good of a player. He's below average in rebounding, slightly below average defensively, and until he improves his efficiency he's mediocre at best on offense. A good serviceable center you can win with, but not someone who should be counted on as your best or second best player on a winning team. He's the nets best or second best player, and we all saw last year how far he can carry a team.

He is still clearly behind Bogut, Bynum, and maybe Noah. You could make a case for him over Marc Gasol or Okafor, but I don't think he should be rated any higher than 6th, and he could be placed as far back as 10th if you want to consider Horford and Jefferson as centers.

Mile High Champ
09-08-2010, 03:21 PM
Gasol gets beyond disrespected on PSD. People keep talking about Lopez, Noah and Bynum but are forgetting Gasol. Gasol last year posted better eFG%, ts%, ORtg and win shares than all 3 guys. He has a great back to the basket game, he is tough and rebounds well. I dont see how a guys like Noah & Lopez are looked at as guys that are better than Gasol.

Look at the numbers, they speak volumes of support for Gasol.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gasolma01&y1=2010&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2010&p4=noahjo01&y4=2010

Avenged
09-08-2010, 03:22 PM
Bogut is running away with this one.

I'd say it's between Bynum, Lopez, M. Gasol, and Kaman for #4.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 03:43 PM
Gasol gets beyond disrespected on PSD. People keep talking about Lopez, Noah and Bynum but are forgetting Gasol. Gasol last year posted better eFG%, ts%, ORtg and win shares than all 3 guys. He has a great back to the basket game, he is tough and rebounds well. I dont see how a guys like Noah & Lopez are looked at as guys that are better than Gasol.

Look at the numbers, they speak volumes of support for Gasol.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gasolma01&y1=2010&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2010&p4=noahjo01&y4=2010

Crooner has your back

GMEN4EVER
09-08-2010, 03:48 PM
Gasol gets beyond disrespected on PSD. People keep talking about Lopez, Noah and Bynum but are forgetting Gasol. Gasol last year posted better eFG%, ts%, ORtg and win shares than all 3 guys. He has a great back to the basket game, he is tough and rebounds well. I dont see how a guys like Noah & Lopez are looked at as guys that are better than Gasol.

Look at the numbers, they speak volumes of support for Gasol.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gasolma01&y1=2010&p2=bynuman01&y2=2010&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2010&p4=noahjo01&y4=2010

Not sure he's beyond disrespected. A bit under rated would be closer I believe. I don't think anyone is advocating he's not a top ten center anymore. And beyond that what else can one ask for? He's still very early on in his career, he'll need another season of at least playing at the level he was at last year in order for people to recognize him as a top 5 center.

I wouldn't say he rebounds well, 9.3 rebounds in about 36 minutes of play a night coming from a center leads me to rate him as an ok rebounder. Certainly not deficient, but far from doing an excellant job cleaning up the glass. He also scored a tad under 15 ppg this year, not too high considering the min played. But then again I love his scoring efficiency, and not watching the Griz much i'm just geussing but i'd listen to arguments taking into account the limited touches he can get on offense with Gay, Mayo, and Randolph being the top 3 scorers on that team.

He's very good, could be a top 5 center starting this season, but i'd like to see more from him before making that statement and defending it. Right now i'd have him as just a bit below Bogut and Bynum, and in the same class as Lopez and Noah. But he's got a higher ceiling than Lopez and Noah, with his peak potential matching Bogut's, but falling slightly behind Bynum.

MTar786
09-08-2010, 03:50 PM
noah? really??

northsider
09-08-2010, 04:01 PM
I have a feeling Noah will get into the top 5 (hes not a top 5 C, if you think that at least explain why). I think its Bogut, but I believe you could make a case for Brook and even Al (PF, but he can play both and arguably has the best post game outta the 3).

I didn't Vote Noah but, please tell me why the **** you care sooo much about Noah getting Votes and only Noah. I understand you guys are so fed up with Bulls homers but, all you guys do is point them out the first site you get when allot of times it's like 3 percent of Bulls fans on PSD so stop generalizing.

Don't get you butt so hurt over the Bulls having a large fan group. There is no way to sensor out homerism on a internet website but, it is allot easier to not cry about it every ****ing thread a Bulls fan post's in.

Jewelz0376
09-08-2010, 04:02 PM
Close this and move on..its Bogut and it shouldn't even be a debate..

northsider
09-08-2010, 04:03 PM
Noah is not #3 and I could bet my life saying the large majority of Bulls fans will agree. I put him somewhere in the 6-9 level with a argument for maybe 5.

bigsams50
09-08-2010, 04:16 PM
Bogut for me. I was close to voting Bynum though

Pierzynski4Prez
09-08-2010, 04:31 PM
I didn't Vote Noah but, please tell me why the **** you care sooo much about Noah getting Votes and only Noah. I understand you guys are so fed up with Bulls homers but, all you guys do is point them out the first site you get when allot of times it's like 3 percent of Bulls fans on PSD so stop generalizing.

Don't get you butt so hurt over the Bulls having a large fan group. There is no way to sensor out homerism on a internet website but, it is allot easier to not cry about it every ****ing thread a Bulls fan post's in.

:clap::clap::clap:

Jets012
09-08-2010, 04:32 PM
It should go down between Bogut, Bynum, and Lopez. In my opinion, im going with Lopez. He is a better scorer than both Bynum and Bogut. Also he doesnt get injured like Bynum does every year. Bogut is a better rebounder than Lopez but Lopez is a better free throw shooter and a better shooter in general than Bogut. Overall, I believe Lopez is a better player than Bogut.

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 05:03 PM
It should go down between Bogut, Bynum, and Lopez. In my opinion, im going with Lopez. He is a better scorer than both Bynum and Bogut. Also he doesnt get injured like Bynum does every year. Bogut is a better rebounder than Lopez but Lopez is a better free throw shooter and a better shooter in general than Bogut. Overall, I believe Lopez is a better player than Bogut.

^ But i was a homer cuz I picked Noah and laid out a pretty decent argument.

Jets012
09-08-2010, 05:12 PM
^ But i was a homer cuz I picked Noah and laid out a pretty decent argument.

No way is Noah better than Lopez, Bogut, Bynum, Horford, or Jefferson. First of all they all are better scorers than Noah. Also, I would take Lopez, Bogut, Jefferson, and Bynum when it comes to defense. You can make a solid argument that Lopez is the third best center in the league, but come on you can't make an argument that Noah is.

smith&wesson
09-08-2010, 05:22 PM
bargs.

dolfan720
09-08-2010, 05:24 PM
Kaman any other vote is a homer vote

Guru™
09-08-2010, 05:27 PM
Lopez.

Klivlend
09-08-2010, 05:31 PM
Kaman any other vote is a homer vote

Dude, when I read your sig I heard Montel Jordan singing it in my head, haha! I liked it. This is how we do it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hiUuL5uTKc&ob=av2e

Mile High Champ
09-08-2010, 05:40 PM
Not sure he's beyond disrespected. A bit under rated would be closer I believe. I don't think anyone is advocating he's not a top ten center anymore. And beyond that what else can one ask for? He's still very early on in his career, he'll need another season of at least playing at the level he was at last year in order for people to recognize him as a top 5 center. .

I believe he is disrespected. For one, European players tend me unappreciated by a large number of the PSD community. What do you mean not a top 10 center anymore? I dont understand that comment at all. Your argument that he is still in the beggining of his career can be applied to Noah and Bynum as well. I have yet to see any real consisentcy from either other than Bynum continued problems with nagging injuries.


I wouldn't say he rebounds well, 9.3 rebounds in about 36 minutes of play a night coming from a center leads me to rate him as an ok rebounder. Certainly not deficient, but far from doing an excellant job cleaning up the glass. He also scored a tad under 15 ppg this year, not too high considering the min played. But then again I love his scoring efficiency, and not watching the Griz much i'm just geussing but i'd listen to arguments taking into account the limited touches he can get on offense with Gay, Mayo, and Randolph being the top 3 scorers on that team. .

Rebounds per game is a terrible stat to look at. The issue with looking at rpg is that it does not take into account how those rebounds were acquried. Its not Gasol's fault that he has to go up against the other teams best big night in and night out. Also 15ppg really does not matter. He is very efficent with the ball when he gets it. As you elluded to, he is the 4th option in the offense. His eFG% and ts% are outstanding. He blows everyone out of the water but Bynum though he still has him beat by a decent margin. Gasol is simply the logical choice at number 4.


He's very good, could be a top 5 center starting this season, but i'd like to see more from him before making that statement and defending it. Right now i'd have him as just a bit below Bogut and Bynum, and in the same class as Lopez and Noah. But he's got a higher ceiling than Lopez and Noah, with his peak potential matching Bogut's, but falling slightly behind Bynum.

What more do you want to see from him? Its not his fault he has only been in the league two years. He has only gotten better each season in the NBA. I don't understand that logic and how he is on par with guys like Noah and Lopez. His numbers are simply better as I showed you. Bynum can't be a top center if he is never healthy..

DaBUU
09-08-2010, 05:41 PM
No way is Noah better than Lopez, Bogut, Bynum, Horford, or Jefferson. First of all they all are better scorers than Noah. Also, I would take Lopez, Bogut, Jefferson, and Bynum when it comes to defense. You can make a solid argument that Lopez is the third best center in the league, but come on you can't make an argument that Noah is.

If you read any of my earlier posts in here, you'd see I included Lopez in the top 7 conversation. But dont sleep on what Noah does that other center cant do. Noah defend and rebounds just as good as Lopez, maybe better in some areas. Lopez cant handle the ball, cant initiate a break, guard at the perimeter, etc. All things Noah is very capable of. 7 footerx dont usually do those kind of things. But we can save this argument for the #5-7 threads I guess.

VinceCarter
09-08-2010, 05:51 PM
without even going into detail, he was too frail as the season went on, and gave up a PER of over 20 to opposing centers.
He could be a good defender in the future, but he wasn't all that good last year.

How do you find a stat like that??

Sportfan
09-08-2010, 05:55 PM
Noah/Bynum having more votes than Al Jeff and Kaman combined is laughable :laugh:

The_Jamal
09-08-2010, 05:56 PM
I would be curious to know why guys like Bynum, Noah etc are getting votes instead of Bogut. Anyone care to defend their pick or are they simply homer picks?

I wasn't paying attention and just voted for an Andrew. but i would have voted bogut

Livefrom21Five
09-08-2010, 06:05 PM
Kaman 20 and 10 and 2 in a tougher western conference. Bogut is nice, and is starting to live up to his high draft billing, but Kamen has been doing it longer and more consistant. He just happens to play for one of the worse franchises in existance of the 4 major north american sports.

loki34
09-08-2010, 06:07 PM
Robin Lopez top 5 in two years

loki34
09-08-2010, 06:07 PM
to answer the question, id say Brook or Horford

Jets012
09-08-2010, 07:19 PM
If you read any of my earlier posts in here, you'd see I included Lopez in the top 7 conversation. But dont sleep on what Noah does that other center cant do. Noah defend and rebounds just as good as Lopez, maybe better in some areas. Lopez cant handle the ball, cant initiate a break, guard at the perimeter, etc. All things Noah is very capable of. 7 footerx dont usually do those kind of things. But we can save this argument for the #5-7 threads I guess.


I will agree with you that Noah is a better rebounder than Lopez, but I disagree that Noah is a better defender. They are both very similar defenders. They actually average the same amount of blocks per 36 minutes. I just believe Lopez is a better post defender than Noah is. The one thing that seperates them is Lopez's touch around the basket. Lopez right now is a much better scorer than Noah. I understand that Noah might now have to score as much on the Bulls, but if you put Noah in the situation that Lopez is on the Nets, I do not believe Noah would put the same amount of numbers up that Lopez does.

Klivlend
09-08-2010, 07:44 PM
Poll is now up. If bogut runs away with it early, we will close it and move on to number 4.

liar...haha

MiamiWadeCounty
09-08-2010, 10:19 PM
no love for aljeff. im not saying he is no.3 but he should get some more vote and be no.4. hes better than joakim, lopez, bynum and kaman by a lot.

jackdawson
09-08-2010, 10:47 PM
3. Bogut
4. Lopez
5. Al Jeff
6. Kaman
7. Bynum
8. Gasol
9. Noah
10. Shaq

This is my order. I know it won't show the same when the voting for top ten is done. Both Noah and Bynum will rank higher because of unfortunate homerism.

Sadds The Gr8
09-08-2010, 10:55 PM
3. Bogut
4. Lopez
5. Al Jeff
6. Kaman
7. Bynum
8. Gasol
9. Noah
10. Shaq

This is my order. I know it won't show the same when the voting for top ten is done. Both Noah and Bynum will rank higher because of unfortunate homerism.

4. Kaman
5. Lopez
6. Jeff

I agree with everything else.

Ironman5219
09-08-2010, 11:09 PM
I think Memo Okur should be in the discussion for a top 10 spot

xM1GSx
09-08-2010, 11:11 PM
lopez

Hawkeye15
09-08-2010, 11:18 PM
Kaman 20 and 10 and 2 in a tougher western conference. Bogut is nice, and is starting to live up to his high draft billing, but Kamen has been doing it longer and more consistant. He just happens to play for one of the worse franchises in existance of the 4 major north american sports.

Kaman is kind of a chucker, and not very efficient. He is sort of overrated at this point

Rafer17
09-08-2010, 11:27 PM
Andrew Bogut

Chi-Town Sports
09-08-2010, 11:40 PM
Bogut, move on to number 4.

JerseysFinest
09-08-2010, 11:46 PM
Brook Lopez.

mynameismo
09-09-2010, 12:29 AM
Whoa! Perk is in the list now.

Anyway, voting for Bogut. I had him at #2.

Mr Moody
09-09-2010, 01:34 AM
3. Bogut
4. Lopez
5. Al Jeff
6. Kaman
7. Bynum
8. Gasol
9. Noah
10. Shaq

This is my order. I know it won't show the same when the voting for top ten is done. Both Noah and Bynum will rank higher because of unfortunate homerism.

Looks good to me

knicksfan42
09-09-2010, 09:26 AM
I personally voted for Noah because i believe he is the prototypical center of the future. I could of went with Bynum and Bogut, both may deserve the spot also. IMO both are hurt a lot and Bogut has to stay healthy and keep up his production before I'm sold. Noah is a 7 ft center who is one of the best defensive and rebounding big men in the game. Hes agile, has a high BB IQ, and he's able to initiate the break and beat the opposing center down the court on every transition. Bogut and Bynum can do neither of those things. They may be better offensive post players, but defensively its a toss up between the the 3, imo. Go ahead and start with your Bulls hate, but i just laid out a compelling argument.

Noah played 64 games last season, Bogut played 69.

Bogut: 15.9 PPG, 2.5 BPG, 10.2 RPG, FG% 52, PER 20.7, DTRg 98 (Better defensive rating than Noah)

Noah: 10.7 PPG, 1.6 PPG, 11 RPG, FG% 50, PER 17.9, DTRg 101

Your argument isn't compelling.

Mile High Champ
09-09-2010, 09:29 AM
Poll 4 is up.. take the discussion there!

Hawkeye15
09-09-2010, 01:25 PM
thanks for voting