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ChiSox219
09-07-2010, 07:29 PM
''As long as you perform,'' Dumas said, ''no one is going to ask questions.''

Stern disputes that notion and said the league is concerned about the physical effects of marijuana.

''There is the issue of muscle deterioration that could come with the retention of substances like marijuana in the body, and concerns about the recovery time of injuries that might be lengthened by marijuana,'' [Commissioner David] Stern said.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/26/sports/marijuana-and-pro-basketball-a-special-report-nba-s-uncontrolled-substance.html?pagewanted=4


Are you okay with players smoking if it does indeed increase injury recovery time?

xbrackattackx
09-07-2010, 07:33 PM
It's their life they should be able to during the off season just not during Summer Camp, or the Season.

Gators123
09-07-2010, 07:36 PM
Let them smoke weed all they want, Just not when they are collecting enormous paychecks from the NBA.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-07-2010, 07:39 PM
It says that weed makes the lenght of recovery time longer.

Hugbees
09-07-2010, 07:39 PM
Where did they get that ******** info from? Where's the studies and hard evidence that can show that it affects performance? If anything, people say that it improves their performance.

Shahrose
09-07-2010, 07:43 PM
Let them smoke weed all they want, Just not when they are collecting enormous paychecks from the NBA.

Yup, from the perspective of an owner of a team, i dont want my players, who are more like my investment, to be smoking

Tony_Starks
09-07-2010, 07:43 PM
yeah I'd like to see some kinda proof that it can prolong recovery time. Sounds like bs to me.


But I say the players should blaze it up and just not get caught. I don't think they start getting the random drug test until after they've already messed up so most of the players know when they're testing. If you're stupid enough to get caught then you deserve whatever punishment they give you.

Kashmir13579
09-07-2010, 07:45 PM
can i just say that i love the title of this thread. kobe probably has a script.

Kashmir13579
09-07-2010, 07:46 PM
yeah I'd like to see some kinda proof that it can prolong recovery time. Sounds like bs to me.


But I say the players should blaze it up and just not get caught. I don't think they start getting the random drug test until after they've already messed up so most of the players know when they're testing. If you're stupid enough to get caught then you deserve whatever punishment they give you.

this (david stern is incompetent)

Klivlend
09-07-2010, 07:49 PM
um...this article is from October of 1997. A bit dated, don't you think?

ChiSox219
09-07-2010, 07:51 PM
Where did they get that ******** info from? Where's the studies and hard evidence that can show that it affects performance? If anything, people say that it improves their performance.

I was wondering the same thing when I read the article but it seems logical the NBA would have researched the topic because everyone knows the drug is popular with the players.

Also, Stern does not infer that marijuana hampers performance, only injury recovery time.

wileyisTOFU
09-07-2010, 07:51 PM
its a match made in heaven..

ChiSox219
09-07-2010, 07:52 PM
um...this article is from October of 1997. A bit dated, don't you think?

So? I'd like to hear an explanation why the date of the article is relevant? If you can find a quote from Stern that contradicts the one I posted, please share.

masTOR_shake1
09-07-2010, 08:06 PM
Where did they get that ******** info from? Where's the studies and hard evidence that can show that it affects performance? If anything, people say that it improves their performance.

:facepalm:

JWO35
09-07-2010, 08:08 PM
A little puff puff give never hurt nobody! :D

Reyes6
09-07-2010, 08:08 PM
Marijuana and Pro Basketball go together like Peanut Butter and Jelly. 1997 SICK! I was 7.

29$JerZ
09-07-2010, 08:09 PM
What they do is of no concern to me, as long as its not happening in a car.

Ovratd1up
09-07-2010, 08:12 PM
I'd like to see facts, as I've never heard anything to the subject. But studies condemning cannabis use are getting more hard to come by with improved methods and new knowledge.

If anything, I might say, all NBA players should smoke weed because it reduces chance of injury.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy/2009/feb/19/study_marijuana_users_less_likel

While this wouldn't be a case I'd like to fight, neither is a claim that marijuana increases injury recover time, unless it is supported by studies.


My stance is that as long as they don't come high to games and/or practices, they smoke all they want. I'm sure many players use it to relieve some stress after days of hard work and the loads of pressure they have on them to perform. And it also means, that the more they smoke weed, the less they use other drugs such as alcohol, and that can't be a bad thing.

ChiSox219
09-07-2010, 08:22 PM
I'd like to see facts, as I've never heard anything to the subject. But studies condemning cannabis use are getting more hard to come by with improved methods and new knowledge.

If anything, I might say, all NBA players should smoke weed because it reduces chance of injury.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy/2009/feb/19/study_marijuana_users_less_likel

While this wouldn't be a case I'd like to fight, neither is a claim that marijuana increases injury recover time, unless it is supported by studies.


My stance is that as long as they don't come high to games and/or practices, they smoke all they want. I'm sure many players use it to relieve some stress after days of hard work and the loads of pressure they have on them to perform. And it also means, that the more they smoke weed, the less they use other drugs such as alcohol, and that can't be a bad thing.

The link you posted is comparing risk of injury while using alcohol or marijuana. In no way does it show that an athlete who uses marijuana will remain as healthy or more healthy than if he did not use marijuana.


I don't think David Stern just made this up. I'd bet the NBA commissioned an independent study to get an idea of what they were dealing with.

Hugbees
09-07-2010, 08:32 PM
:facepalm:

Your freaking sig is aqua team hungerforce. That cartoon was made for one audience base. Good one Lame-O.

Bulls_fan90
09-07-2010, 08:32 PM
I love weed.

Ovratd1up
09-07-2010, 08:42 PM
The link you posted is comparing risk of injury while using alcohol or marijuana. In no way does it show that an athlete who uses marijuana will remain as healthy or more healthy than if he did not use marijuana.

I don't think David Stern just made this up. I'd bet the NBA commissioned an independent study to get an idea of what they were dealing with.

I didn't mean for it to be hard evidence, I'm just saying that many cases could be made for and against it, but probably no over-the-top conclusion will be drawn to make Stern say, "okay, enough is enough." What if there was a large, expensive independent study funded by the NBA, with the hopes of finding large enough evidence to finally enforce marijuana rules, and all they found was a possible link between the drug and injury recovery time?

What I meant with the link, is that it pretty much assesses the risk of doing something stupid while on alcohol, marijuana, and in a sober state. Now, this has little to no bearing on NBA players in particular. But even something like this, if it turned out to "increase the risk of injury," could be twisted by Stern as some sort of justification to punish marijuana use. I'm just skeptical.

Brew Crew
09-07-2010, 08:44 PM
Something weed does do (and note that I am in love with budski so I'm not against it) is mess with your heart beat. I should mention I have an irregular heart beat first off, but what weed will do is speed your heart beat up, especially within the first hour of smoking. I was playing soccer after I smoked, ( I was gone...:sigh:and looked like that) not even sprinting and all of the sudden my heart started beating uncontrollably. I am 5'8'' and weigh 155 and I'm not out of shape so it freaked me out big time.

This was the first time I smoked then exercised literally right after and this happened...Scary sort of.

netsgiantsyanks
09-07-2010, 08:46 PM
Marijuana and Pro Basketball go together like Peanut Butter and Jelly. 1997 SICK! I was 7.

i was 2, and i wasnt even living in new york yet, and i've been living in new york for 13 years. need i say more??? :rolleyes:

tredigs
09-07-2010, 08:50 PM
The link you posted is comparing risk of injury while using alcohol or marijuana. In no way does it show that an athlete who uses marijuana will remain as healthy or more healthy than if he did not use marijuana.


I don't think David Stern just made this up. I'd bet the NBA commissioned an independent study to get an idea of what they were dealing with.

Pot's not going to make you "more healthy", but there is no evidence (nor will there probably ever be) that marijuana will reduce muscle growth or injury recovery time (re-read the article, Stern never makes a direct claim to this, either). Knowing what has been researched on pot (a lot, more than any other drug) and what we know about the human anatomy, it just does not make sense physiologically that it would hamper you in any negative way as far as muscle growth/rehabilitation is concerned.

It's also the only drug that you cannot overdose from, and there are many studies that suggest that it does not cause lung cancer, either http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html. Just for fun, a few notable physical specimens who smoked/smoke pot: Ricky Williams, Michael Phelps, Arnold Swartzenegger (Mr. Universe days), Bruce Lee, etc.

I stopped smoking years ago because I thought I could run longer for my sport without it (I don't even know if that's true to be honest, but it makes sense - if you're smoking it, at least - and it certainly wouldn't help me endurance wise) but I see zero problems with grown men (athletes or otherwise) smoking it on their own time; especially since the negative effects are incredibly slim in comparison to virtually every other substance (legal or not) out there.

masalex1205
09-07-2010, 08:51 PM
yeah I'd like to see some kinda proof that it can prolong recovery time. Sounds like bs to me.


x1000 What scientific study is Stern's conclusion based on? Please

Gators123
09-07-2010, 08:53 PM
I feel like I'm one of the very few people that doesn't smoke weed :eyebrow:

Shammyguy3
09-07-2010, 08:56 PM
I feel like I'm one of the very few people that don't smoke weed :eyebrow:

same here

Sly Guy
09-07-2010, 08:57 PM
as a canadian, my view towards pot, as most other things, is quite liberal. And to offer my perspective on weed as a drug, I'll regale you with a few lines from the movie half baked:

Thurgood: I'm here today because I'm addicted..to marijuana.
Rehab patient: You in here 'cuz of marijuana?! Man, this is some ********!
Bob Saget/Cocaine addict: Marijuana is not a drug. I used to suck dick for coke.
Rehab patient: I seen him [do it]!
Bob Saget/Cocaine addict: Now that's an addiction, man. You ever suck some dick for marijuana?
Thurgood: No, I can't say I have.
Bob Saget/Cocaine addict: I didn't think so.
Rehab patient: Boo this man!

Ovratd1up
09-07-2010, 08:58 PM
:)

Atticus Finch
09-07-2010, 08:58 PM
So? I'd like to hear an explanation why the date of the article is relevant? If you can find a quote from Stern that contradicts the one I posted, please share.

A lot has changed in the last 13 years. Medicinal marijuana started in Hawaii in 2000, and regardless of if you feel if medical marijuana is legit or not, you can't deny that the culture regarding it has changed drastically. Also consider that this article was written in 97 hinting at the possibility that it can prolong injuries and delay healing, and unless I'm confused this hasn't been proven yet. I don't really care about this debate one way or the other, sure I think they should be able to smoke, but it's illegal so it's ridiculous to talk about until it becomes fully legal. But using a source that's 13 years old for something like marijuana studies is pointless unless the source has concrete proof of the point they are trying to make. However I do agree with you in that Stern's stance on the subject likely hasn't changed since then

Raoul Duke
09-07-2010, 09:00 PM
Medical studies show some awfully strange physical effects caused by marijuana, but not a lot of those studies show definitive evidence of long-term physical harm. It's mostly just stuff like short term memory loss.

Also, what about all the un-banned substances that decrease their performance? What about fast food?

I could care less if an athlete wants to smoke dope during the off-season, provided they still put in the work necessary to come to training camp in peak physical condition and earn their money.

mcohio
09-07-2010, 09:00 PM
Is pot legal all of the sudden? How can it be ok if it's not even legal? For the love of god. :facepalm:

Raoul Duke
09-07-2010, 09:03 PM
The link you posted is comparing risk of injury while using alcohol or marijuana. In no way does it show that an athlete who uses marijuana will remain as healthy or more healthy than if he did not use marijuana.


I don't think David Stern just made this up. I'd bet the NBA commissioned an independent study to get an idea of what they were dealing with.

Dude, what do you expect David Stern to say? That he's okay with pot? It's an illegal drug and he's a businessman and a lawyer.

ChiSox219
09-07-2010, 09:04 PM
Pot's not going to make you "more healthy", but there is no evidence (nor will there probably ever be) that marijuana will reduce muscle growth or injury recovery time (re-read the article, Stern never makes a direct claim to this, either). Knowing what has been researched on pot (a lot, more than any other drug) and what we know about the human anatomy, it just does not make sense physiologically that it would hamper you in any negative way as far as muscle growth/rehabilitation is concerned.

It's also the only drug that you cannot overdose from, and there are many studies that suggest that it does not cause lung cancer, either http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html. Just for fun, a few notable physical specimens who smoked/smoke pot: Ricky Williams, Michael Phelps, Arnold Swartzenegger (Mr. Universe days), Bruce Lee, etc.

I stopped smoking years ago because I thought I could run longer for my sport without it (I don't even know if that's true to be honest, but it makes sense - if you're smoking it, at least - and it certainly wouldn't help me endurance wise) but I see zero problems with grown men (athletes or otherwise) smoking it on their own time; especially since the negative effects are incredibly slim in comparison to virtually every other substance (legal or not) out there.

I am pro-marijuana, heard all the arguments you've made too many times to count.

Stern obviously had some concerns and research linking marijuana use and player's health. If he wanted to ban the drug for his own moral/personal reasons he could have done so years ago.

tredigs
09-07-2010, 09:05 PM
Is pot legal all of the sudden? How can it be ok if it's not even legal? For the love of god. :facepalm:

Do you just base your life decision of "what's OK" based on the current laws of the time, rather than taking into account scientific studies and logic? Without drawing parallels to other ridiculous laws in our nations past, I think you can agree that it is probably best to actually have your OWN thoughts on matters, no?


PS: It is legal in many countries, and has been reduced to a "citation" in many areas of America (if cops even bother to stop you for it).


I am pro-marijuana, heard all the arguments you've made too many times to count.

Stern obviously had some concerns and research linking marijuana use and player's health. If he wanted to ban the drug for his own moral/personal reasons he could have done so years ago.

I hear ya. Those studies simply don't exist, though. If they did, we would know about them and be able to research them.

Raoul Duke
09-07-2010, 09:05 PM
Is pot legal all of the sudden? How can it be ok if it's not even legal? For the love of god. :facepalm:

In some states, swearing in public is illegal.

You can dig up some pretty ridiculous laws that are on the books still, even if they're seldom enforced. Are all those laws fine and dandy simply because "it's the law"?

You should try examining all sides of an issue and forming your own opinion. It's fun, trust me.

EDIT: Also, in before close. The MODs are gonna leave this open for all of another 15 minutes.

Shammyguy3
09-07-2010, 09:06 PM
Is pot legal all of the sudden? How can it be ok if it's not even legal? For the love of god. :facepalm:

I'm not an advocate for weed at all, but to say this is just wrong:

Slavery was legal at some point.
A husband could rape his wife and have it not be a crime at some point (very recent actually- 40 years ago)


Just because it isn't legal yet doesn't make it good or bad.

Sly Guy
09-07-2010, 09:06 PM
Is pot legal all of the sudden? How can it be ok if it's not even legal? For the love of god. :facepalm:

the issue with pot is never "is it legal or not" it's whether "should it be legal or not" or "why does it continue to be illegal".

From a simplistic point of view, yes, all NBA players should refrain from using it because it is against the law.

But how can we as fans condemn them for something so prevalent in our own lives? And to illustrate that point, living in Toronto, upon the year I graduated from high school [2001], the estimate of those who had actually 'tried' marijuana before graduating was 48.5%, and that is before going to university and letting it all loose. So as fans, if we are to condemn NBA players for getting a little high, it makes half of us [at least in canada] hypocrites.

Ovratd1up
09-07-2010, 09:07 PM
Pot's not going to make you "more healthy", but there is no evidence (nor will there probably ever be) that marijuana will reduce muscle growth or injury recovery time (re-read the article, Stern never makes a direct claim to this, either). Knowing what has been researched on pot (a lot, more than any other drug) and what we know about the human anatomy, it just does not make sense physiologically that it would hamper you in any negative way as far as muscle growth/rehabilitation is concerned.

It's also the only drug that you cannot overdose from, and there are many studies that suggest that it does not cause lung cancer, either http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html. Just for fun, a few notable physical specimens who smoked/smoke pot: Ricky Williams, Michael Phelps, Arnold Swartzenegger (Mr. Universe days), Bruce Lee, etc.

I don't think ChiSox was himself speaking in opposition to the drug, just the relevance to the NBA.


I stopped smoking years ago because I thought I could run longer for my sport without it (I don't even know if that's true to be honest, but it makes sense - if you're smoking it, at least - and it certainly wouldn't help me endurance wise) but I see zero problems with grown men (athletes or otherwise) smoking it on their own time; especially since the negative effects are incredibly slim in comparison to virtually every other substance (legal or not) out there.

I'm not sure I remember completely, but I think it's been shown that only heavy smoking (5+ joints a day) has an effect on breathing and cardiovascular fitness. Phelps is the best example of this.


Lastly,


Pot's not going to make you "more healthy"

People always say this to be seen as partial and sane, but the truth is that there have been plenty of studies suggesting that cannabis improves mental health, which to many is more important than physical health (Jesus comes to mind) while having little to no physical health consequences either.

NYKSpiritBomb
09-07-2010, 09:07 PM
i think pot negatively affects performance. here's an article from 2001 quoting board legend, mr. charles oakleyhttp://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2001/02/22/smoking010222.html

Raoul Duke
09-07-2010, 09:08 PM
Well, if you're inhaling smoke, then you're hurting your lungs. You really can't argue that. It's just a medical fact.


People always say this to be seen as partial and sane, but the truth is that there have been plenty of studies suggesting that cannabis improves mental health, which to many is more important than physical health (Jesus comes to mind) while having little to no physical health consequences either.

Yeah, I call ********. There are an equal number of studies suggesting the exact opposite.

If you want to support legalization, thats fine. I support it, too. Wholeheartedly in fact. :) But don't come to me with this "It's a miracle drug!" logic, because you're talking out of your ***. If you inhale smoke from marijuana, which contains several thousand chemicals, many of which are irritants, then you are harming your respiratory sysem. If you smoke heavily, then you're decreasing the usable surface area inside your lungs.

ChiSox219
09-07-2010, 09:09 PM
A lot has changed in the last 13 years. Medicinal marijuana started in Hawaii in 2000, and regardless of if you feel if medical marijuana is legit or not, you can't deny that the culture regarding it has changed drastically. Also consider that this article was written in 97 hinting at the possibility that it can prolong injuries and delay healing, and unless I'm confused this hasn't been proven yet. I don't really care about this debate one way or the other, sure I think they should be able to smoke, but it's illegal so it's ridiculous to talk about until it becomes fully legal. But using a source that's 13 years old for something like marijuana studies is pointless unless the source has concrete proof of the point they are trying to make. However I do agree with you in that Stern's stance on the subject likely hasn't changed since then

Medical marijuana and the public's perception of weed has nothing to do with how it can affect an athletes recovery time. As the post below me points out, Stern is a business man and a lawyer, it's hard to believe he would go around make unsubstantiated claims in order to ban weed. Like I said, if he wanted it gone, he could go ahead and do so.


Dude, what do you expect David Stern to say? That he's okay with pot? It's an illegal drug and he's a businessman and a lawyer.

I don't expect him to say anything. It's his call and I'm sure he keeps most of his information private.

Sly Guy
09-07-2010, 09:09 PM
Pot's not going to make you "more healthy"

recent studies are finding that concentrated THC might be a cure for cancer. That certainly would make people 'more healthy'.

Wade>You
09-07-2010, 09:10 PM
Yup, from the perspective of an owner of a team, i dont want my players, who are more like my investment, to be smokingPlayers in the NBA have already been smoking for over a decade. I think the Owners might have a clue by now.

xxcubs22xx
09-07-2010, 09:15 PM
LOL

I'm high and on my way to the school rec center to ball rofl...

But anyways.

Yeah if anything studies have shown that Marijuana is not as harmful as what was originally assumed...and i say assumed because the reefer madness movement layed the pavement for misinformation, which plagues are media in many forms these days. yes there are published studies showing that THC has actually killed cells before they can become cancerous in the lungs.

But seriously. I've been smoking for 6 years now...And, if you let it make you lazy, it will. But thats the individual, not the weed.

It may be one long *** placebo, but for at least 4 years i have been smoking before i play ball and lift sometimes, and i find myself concentrating more sometimes. ****, i feel 175lbs 6ft 8% body fat is pretty legit for a stoner. I can run with the best of them on the hardwood

If you don't think NBA players are getting high, well, think again.

tredigs
09-07-2010, 09:16 PM
Medical marijuana and the public's perception of weed has nothing to do with how it can affect an athletes recovery time. As the post below me points out, Stern is a business man and a lawyer, it's hard to believe he would go around make unsubstantiated claims in order to ban weed. Like I said, if he wanted it gone, he could go ahead and do so.



I don't expect him to say anything. It's his call and I'm sure he keeps most of his information private.

I really think it's much more simple than that. There are a ton of players who smoke pot (people, in general, but basketball players are just infamous for it), and Stern knows that if he tested for it, there would inevitably be a number who get caught each season. Rather than deal with this mess year in and year out for a substance that is relatively harmless, he decided to issue an ambiguous 'cautionary warning' on the matter and save himself the headache/bad press of testing.

As a sane/intelligent person, you can't actually see a reason why he would have some inside information on the ill-effects of marijuana to recovery time that he is keeping under lock and key and has yet to surface to the general public in the 13 years that this statement was issued...

edit: For the people responding to my comment that it won't make you "more healthy", I do realize the many benefits of smoking (and also the drawbacks). I was focusing more on the fact that it's not going to make the regular person a better athlete.

Ovratd1up
09-07-2010, 09:22 PM
Yeah, I call ********. There are an equal number of studies suggesting the exact opposite.

If you want to support legalization, thats fine. I support it, too. Wholeheartedly in fact. :) But don't come to me with this "It's a miracle drug!" logic, because you're talking out of your ***.

I know people who were changed forever into better human beings directly because of drug use, and marijuana to a smaller extent. And there are tons more who can only cope day to day and month to month because they smoke. I don't really have time to do some full-fledged research right now, but it's been proven to decrease depression and anxiety and even been shown to improve quality of life.

If you want I'll show you links later, as well as unscientific explanations to how this can be from marijuana smokers.


If you inhale smoke from marijuana, which contains several thousand chemicals, many of which are irritants, then you are harming your respiratory sysem. If you smoke heavily, then you're decreasing the usable surface area inside your lungs.

The only health problem that has been positively associated with heavy marijuana use is bronchial irritation, and sickness relating to irritation of the lungs. Again, this is only with heavy use.

Raoul Duke
09-07-2010, 09:30 PM
I know people whose were changed forever into better human beings directly because of drug use, and marijuana to a smaller extent. And there are tons more who can only cope day to day and month to month because they smoke. I don't really have time to do some full-fledged research right now, but it's been proven to decrease depression and anxiety and even been shown to improve quality of life.

If you want I'll show you links later, as well as unscientific explanations to how this can be from marijuana smokers.



The only health problem that has been positively associated with heavy marijuana use is bronchial irritation, and sickness relating to irritation of the lungs. Again, this is only with heavy use.

Dude, I work in the medical field, and this topic is very near and dear to my heart. I'm telling you right now that if you can't prove it's benefits via science, then those benefits are entirely subjective and they don't apply to the issue of legalization.

The part I bolded (1st paragraph) is ridiculous. Depending on strain, it can be a stimulant or a depressant. I'd like to see some actual research articles that back up those statements. Then I'll link you to hundreds of studies that say it causes depression and decreases quality of life.

The negative effects are varied. It's a drug, and heavy use does strange things to your brain chemistry.

Ovratd1up
09-07-2010, 09:33 PM
Dude, I work in the medical field, and this topic is very near and dear to my heart. I'm telling you right now that if you can't prove it's benefits via science, then those benefits are entirely subjective and they don't apply to the issue of legalization.

The part I bolded (1st paragraph) is ridiculous. Depending on strain, it can be a stimulant or a depressant. I'd like to see some actual research articles that back up those statements. Then I'll link you to hundreds of studies that say it causes depression and decreases quality of life.

The negative effects are varied. It's a drug, and heavy use does strange things to your brain chemistry.

I'd be interested in seeing those links, and will try to find my own claims as well, cannot for the time being though.

daleja424
09-07-2010, 09:33 PM
how can some of you say, Its their life. Its my life too, but if I get caught smoking weed (or breaking any other law for that matter) I'd probably get fired. Thes guys are making much much much more money than I am and suddenly it is too much to ask for them to follow the same rules as the rest of us!?!

DenButsu
09-07-2010, 09:33 PM
As with many things, we should just operate within bounds of reason here.

Is it a problem if an NBA player has a couple beers or glasses of wine with dinner? I think practically nobody would argue that it is, including NBA officials and front offices. As long as the players keep their drinking within reason and within limits that don't negatively impact the team or their physical condition, the teams leave them alone (as they should).

Is it a problem, on the other hand, if a player regularly goes out to the club and has 10-12 beers, resulting in weight gain, being late for practices, and an overall decline in physical performance and conditioning? Well of course, that's detrimental to the team, at which point the player's private behavior becomes the team's business, because they entered into a contractual agreement which is almost entirely based on the physical ability of that player to deliver.

So I'd just say the same guidelines should apply to pot. If a player's pot use becomes problematic enough that it results in observable, negative turns of behavior and/or physical performance, that should be the moment when the team has a say in the matter. But if the player has the good sense to keep his behavior in check, employ some moderation, and keep it beyond the purvey of the league, the team, and the public, then who cares?

ChiSox219
09-07-2010, 09:35 PM
I did not have the proper foresight when I created this thread.

Last thing the internet needs is another legalize weed thread.

daleja424
09-07-2010, 09:36 PM
I really think it's much more simple than that. There are a ton of players who smoke pot (people, in general, but basketball players are just infamous for it), and Stern knows that if he tested for it, there would inevitably be a number who get caught each season. Rather than deal with this mess year in and year out for a substance that is relatively harmless, he decided to issue an ambiguous 'cautionary warning' on the matter and save himself the headache/bad press of testing.

As a sane/intelligent person, you can't actually see a reason why he would have some inside information on the ill-effects of marijuana to recovery time that he is keeping under lock and key and has yet to surface to the general public in the 13 years that this statement was issued...

edit: For the people responding to my comment that it won't make you "more healthy", I do realize the many benefits of smoking (and also the drawbacks). I was focusing more on the fact that it's not going to make the regular person a better athlete.

they do test for it... If a player fails a test they are enrolled in the drug treatment program... if it happens again they get suspended. At least those are the rules as I know them... :shrug:

ChiSox219
09-07-2010, 09:38 PM
As with many things, we should just operate within bounds of reason here.

Is it a problem if an NBA player has a couple beers or glasses of wine with dinner? I think practically nobody would argue that it is, including NBA officials and front offices. As long as the players keep their drinking within reason and within limits that don't negatively impact the team or their physical condition, the teams leave them alone (as they should).

Is it a problem, on the other hand, if a player regularly goes out to the club and has 10-12 beers, resulting in weight gain, being late for practices, and an overall decline in physical performance and conditioning? Well of course, that's detrimental to the team, at which point the player's private behavior becomes the team's business, because they entered into a contractual agreement which is almost entirely based on the physical ability of that player to deliver.

So I'd just say the same guidelines should apply to pot. If a player's pot use becomes problematic enough that it results in observable, negative turns of behavior and/or physical performance, that should be the moment when the team has a say in the matter. But if the player has the good sense to keep his behavior in check, employ some moderation, and keep it beyond the purvey of the league, the team, and the public, then who cares?

What if a players is able to drink 10+ alcoholic servings and show up the next day ready for practice but in the long run his body breaks down from drinking?

daleja424
09-07-2010, 09:38 PM
As with many things, we should just operate within bounds of reason here.

Is it a problem if an NBA player has a couple beers or glasses of wine with dinner? I think practically nobody would argue that it is, including NBA officials and front offices. As long as the players keep their drinking within reason and within limits that don't negatively impact the team or their physical condition, the teams leave them alone (as they should).

Is it a problem, on the other hand, if a player regularly goes out to the club and has 10-12 beers, resulting in weight gain, being late for practices, and an overall decline in physical performance and conditioning? Well of course, that's detrimental to the team, at which point the player's private behavior becomes the team's business, because they entered into a contractual agreement which is almost entirely based on the physical ability of that player to deliver.

So I'd just say the same guidelines should apply to pot. If a player's pot use becomes problematic enough that it results in observable, negative turns of behavior and/or physical performance, that should be the moment when the team has a say in the matter. But if the player has the good sense to keep his behavior in check, employ some moderation, and keep it beyond the purvey of the league, the team, and the public, then who cares?

Not while using pot is agains the law... The bottom line is simple... No one is allowed to break the law. NO ONE

tredigs
09-07-2010, 10:02 PM
how can some of you say, Its their life. Its my life too, but if I get caught smoking weed (or breaking any other law for that matter) I'd probably get fired. Thes guys are making much much much more money than I am and suddenly it is too much to ask for them to follow the same rules as the rest of us!?!

There are thousands of jobs that do not drug test after the initial hiring (if even then) or unless they suspect heavy drug use. The league is no different.

The NBA is not promoting nor even condoning smoking. They just aren't actively testing for it. Simma down now.

Evolution23
09-07-2010, 10:11 PM
If I can't smoke at my work then why should they?

daleja424
09-07-2010, 10:19 PM
There are thousands of jobs that do not drug test after the initial hiring (if even then) or unless they suspect heavy drug use. The league is no different.

The NBA is not promoting nor even condoning smoking. They just aren't actively testing for it. Simma down now.

ou need to slow ur role playa and stop hating. Its illegal so its not okay for them to smoke. Period. And if they get caught smoking, the league takes action. Thats all I said. What is your problem?

tredigs
09-07-2010, 10:19 PM
If I can't smoke at my work then why should they?

When's the last time you saw Boobie Gibson puffing on Mike Brown's spliff during a timeout? You people kill me.


ou need to slow ur role playa and stop hating. Its illegal so its not okay for them to smoke. Period. And if they get caught smoking, the league takes action. Thats all I said. What is your problem?

You are not understanding the topic. The point is not whether it's illegal (obviously it is...), it's whether or not you're OK with them smoking "if it impairs their recovery time". My point (and others) was that it does not impair their recovery time. There is no facts to substantiate that.

So it boils down to whether or not you are OK with John Doe down the street smoking a joint on his free time, after work?

yuoke
09-07-2010, 10:25 PM
And don't even get started on how it isn't addictive, because it is.

snspacer31
09-07-2010, 10:26 PM
lol i love this thread .... personally i smoke so i'm biased to this thread but honestly there as a study on tv i remember some dude smoked like an O a day for a month striaght and they tested him every day... and after one month he quit cold turkey.. the tested him to see the side effects etc and the results showed after he quit smoking his short term memory returned and there was no other ill effects....

I'm blind in my right eye if someone gets mad at me for smoking i have to words for you lol

regardless marijuana is being decriminalized throughout america... 14 states have approved is used for medicinal purposes... if a player wants to smoke that bad he can just play for a California team or the nets.. its no different than taking ritalin for ADD cases.... anyways basketball players don't endanger anyones lives by what they do so if they can pass a drug test i say why the hell not... they don't talk about it public so they don't influence anyone else to use it..

snspacer31
09-07-2010, 10:27 PM
And don't even get started on how it isn't addictive, because it is.

so is nicotine and thats legal being addictive doesn't prove squat

Iggz53
09-07-2010, 10:27 PM
Smoking marijuana is illegal, so there's little to debate about. Of course owners and coaches don't want their players participating in illegal activity. The legality debate is irrelevant here.

Chronz
09-07-2010, 10:28 PM
And don't even get started on how it isn't addictive, because it is.

How so? Maybe addictive in the sense that it so good you dont see the need to quit but everytime I have wanted to stop I have. Maybe I dont have an addictive personality but Im telling you Im way more addicted to PSD than I am bud.

Raoul Duke
09-07-2010, 10:31 PM
How so? Maybe addictive in the sense that it so good you dont see the need to quit but everytime I have wanted to stop I have. Maybe I dont have an addictive personality but Im telling you Im way more addicted to PSD than I am bud.

Fair enough, but science says otherwise.

Also, I've always noticed withdrawl symptoms when I stop. Nothing major... mostly I don't poop or eat right. And then theres the dreams...

yuoke
09-07-2010, 10:35 PM
How so? Maybe addictive in the sense that it so good you dont see the need to quit but everytime I have wanted to stop I have. Maybe I dont have an addictive personality but Im telling you Im way more addicted to PSD than I am bud.
My psychology teacher just told us today how he knew a guy who felt completely sick and nauseous as soon as he didn't, and not to mention seeing my cousin first hand, and he's now going back to rehab for the second time for heroine. It's both addictive and a gateway drug.

tredigs
09-07-2010, 10:39 PM
Fair enough, but science says otherwise.

Also, I've always noticed withdrawl symptoms when I stop. Nothing major... mostly I don't poop or eat right. And then theres the dreams...

It can absolutely be habituating, but to call it "addictive" (especially being that you say you have a science/research background) is a stretch, and you know it. It is addictive in the same sense that your morning coffee, your daily internet routine and your favorite foods are addictive. But for the vast majority of people (obviously you're going to find people who are anomalies and on the extreme end of any addiction, no matter how tame it generally is. e.g. - people addicted to food), this is not something that is going to debilitate you or send you spiraling for more if you need or have the want to quit. I think you can agree with that?

There are many varying levels of addiction, and pot isn't anywhere NEAR the high/dangerous end of that spectrum.

PS: We have entirely lost focus of the topic; but I think most can agree that that concept (weed hurting a players recovery time) is false, barring any studies to back it up.

yuoke
09-07-2010, 10:41 PM
There are many varying levels of addiction, and pot isn't anywhere NEAR the high/dangerous end of that spectrum.


Tell my cousin that.

Iggz53
09-07-2010, 10:42 PM
There's no evidence that concludes or even suggests that marijuana has any sort of physiological dependence. Psychologically, it can but it's reported that less than 5% of people who use it become addicted.

But psychological addiction is common to almost anything so it does not make grass any more unique than a game or website for instance.

Jewelz0376
09-07-2010, 10:48 PM
It shouldn't be allowed if your doing it illegally, but if you live in one of the states like cali where you can get a card and smoke it legally and they do it in the off season I don't see what the big deal is...

yuoke
09-07-2010, 10:49 PM
There's no evidence that concludes or even suggests that marijuana has any sort of physiological dependence. Psychologically, it can but it's reported that less than 5% of people who use it become addicted.

But psychological addiction is common to almost anything so it does not make grass any more unique than a game or website for instance.

Not buying it, but you can agree it's definately a gateway, right?

ChiSox219
09-07-2010, 10:50 PM
Not buying it, but you can agree it's definately a gateway, right?

No, at least I cannot.

Marijuana is as much a gateway drug as alcohol, Ritalin, or tobacco is.

tredigs
09-07-2010, 10:57 PM
Not buying it, but you can agree it's definately a gateway, right?

It is not in any way dude. "Correlation does not equal causation". Just because your cousin happened to smoke weed before he got hooked on harder **** does not necessarily have anything to do with it being the cause of the initial pot use. It is very normal for high school kids and beyond to try pot and even smoke it regularly, but it is VERY irregular for someone to try and get addicted to heroine.

I have met literally thousands upon thousands of people who have at least tried pot; many of them athletes, professors, lawyers, etc. etc. I would be impressed if there was a study that could show a significantly greater correlation of pot use to heroine addiction as compared to say cigarette use to heroine addiction. The "gateway drug" mantra that you hear all through middle school is a myth, my man.

yuoke
09-07-2010, 11:02 PM
Yea, I'm long gone from middle school, and I beleive what I see and comprehend. I don't care what anyone else does, but it's never going to change my mind.

philab
09-07-2010, 11:20 PM
Tell my cousin that.

Remember that kid in China who died because he couldn't stop playing World of Warcraft? Is World of Warcraft addictive?

There are things that are habituating and things that are addictive. Don't conflate chemical addiction the colloquial use of "addiction."

World of Warcraft is, obviously, not chemically addictive. It is habituating.
Pot is also not chemically addictive. This has been shown.
Heroin, cocaine, caffeine, meth ... these things ARE chemically addictive.

Big difference.

Guru™
09-07-2010, 11:22 PM
Who cares everybody smokes weed these days. If you don't it's your choice(loss), but yeah.

abe_froman
09-07-2010, 11:25 PM
And don't even get started on how it isn't addictive, because it is.

anything can be addictive if you let it be

Iggz53
09-07-2010, 11:27 PM
Not buying it, but you can agree it's definately a gateway, right?

You're not buying what? That it contains no physiologically addictive ingredients? If you do it way too much, withdrawal can be frustrating because your body is adjusting to the new maintenance, but that can be said for anything you consume.

I think it can be simply because the method of intake is similar to heavier substances. But I think that concept is overblown because like ChiSox mentioned, many other things can be considered in the same category. You could just as well say that Grand Theft Auto is a gateway to homicide or that sex is a gateway to prostitution.

boriquaabe
09-07-2010, 11:28 PM
Where did they get that ******** info from? Where's the studies and hard evidence that can show that it affects performance? If anything, people say that it improves their performance.

I don't know the ish you are smoking. But it's scientifically proven to slow your reflex time.

And I've smoked herb for over twenty years so I'm well versed in the effects.

I for one wouldn't want a professional athlete playing for my team to be smoking the ganja. It's bad PR (see josh Howard). It's not ideal for reaching an optimum level of performance.

My favorite mary jane saying that should sum up the topic.

"you could be sitting in a pile of crap and as long as you are high it doesn't matter"

And if a player does there is absolutely no reason you should get caught unless your name is Wilson Chandler and then just bring a buddy and tell the cops it's your buddies weed and subsequently the Knicks PR department will advise you to tell the media you volunteered to take a drug test and you passed.... WTF??????

Gators123
09-07-2010, 11:29 PM
Who cares everybody smokes weed these days. If you don't it's your choice(loss), but yeah.

:shrug: I don't think I'm losing anything by not smoking it

philab
09-07-2010, 11:31 PM
:shrug: I don't think I'm losing anything by not smoking it

There's no harm in trying. All pros and no cons.

boriquaabe
09-07-2010, 11:32 PM
You're not buying what? That it contains no physiologically addictive ingredients? If you do it way too much, withdrawal can be frustrating because your body is adjusting to the new maintenance, but that can be said for anything you consume.

I think it can be simply because the method of intake is similar to heavier substances. But I think that concept is overblown because like ChiSox mentioned, many other things can be considered in the same category. You could just as well say that Grand Theft Auto is a gateway to homicide or that sex is a gateway to prostitution.

Yo.... Withdrawal for me is hell. I get insomnia for a month, I'm edgy, irritable and restless.

It also alters the neurotransmitters in a positive way but when you stop it's takes weeks for them to balance themselves again.

But marijuana use never lead me to use heavier drugs.

T_Co
09-07-2010, 11:34 PM
Where did they get that ******** info from? Where's the studies and hard evidence that can show that it affects performance? If anything, people say that it improves their performance.

I wouldn't go as far to say it improves performance but it takes a percentage of lung capacity which could effect performance. You would have to smoke all day every day for that to happen. It deteriorates muscle you say? That's bogus! Marijuana increases appetite which causes people to eat and you get nutrients such as carbs, protein, ect. which causes muscle growth.

abe_froman
09-07-2010, 11:34 PM
Who cares everybody smokes weed these days. If you don't it's your choice(loss), but yeah.

its not really a loss to everyone who dont smoke it.though there are many nonsmokers who get way to uptight about the subject

boriquaabe
09-07-2010, 11:35 PM
anything can be addictive if you let it be

It matters more if the person has an addictive personality.

Me? I can get addicted to freakin green tea or revive Vitamin water.

Raoul Duke
09-07-2010, 11:36 PM
Yeah, so... now we're debating the definition of words like "addiction" and "withdrawl".

zambo4president
09-07-2010, 11:37 PM
Im aboutta rip a fat bowl:laugh2: I know Jo Jo Noah smokes bud and Im down with that. He still comes to play, he isn't some lazy traylor tractor type of stoner.

zambo4president
09-07-2010, 11:40 PM
Yo.... Withdrawal for me is hell. I get insomnia for a month, I'm edgy, irritable and restless.

It also alters the neurotransmitters in a positive way but when you stop it's takes weeks for them to balance themselves again.

But marijuana use never lead me to use heavier drugs.

I feel ya homie on the withdrawals and all that. I did lead to way harder drug use however, but now I just stick to my bud and some mushies if there around:)

bahama0811
09-07-2010, 11:44 PM
This thread has turned into an argument about the legalization of marijuana and has gone completely off-topic.