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View Full Version : Do we take Dirk Nowitzki for granted sometimes?



DitchDat
09-06-2010, 06:05 AM
Here's a European player who revolutionized the power forward position, one of the goofiest and most likeable personalities in the NBA, plays hard, averages around 25 PPG year in year out, and he's super-durable.... Yet, Dirk doesn't get talked about a lot, and I wonder if this is because people don't consider him an "upper echelon" type of guy?

For me, of the players that will be retiring in the next couple of years, him, Kobe Bryant, KG and Tim Duncan are among the few whose absence will have a big impact on the league.

Thoughts?

And please don't respond if you're a homer kid that hates everyone but their own team.

bholly
09-06-2010, 06:39 AM
He got an MVP, 4x NBA first teams, 4x NBA second teams, and 2x NBA third teams, along with a bunch of other awards. Just this week PSD voted him the #2 PF in the league (ahead of TD, Bosh, Stoudemire, Boozer, Garnett), and that yahoo guy had him at #4. Another thread in the last week had a huge amount of people saying they expect him to lead Dallas to #2 in the West this year.

So let's be clear - he gets a LOT of credit. A lot.

IF he doesn't get talked about enough, it's probably because
a) he doesn't have any championships, so he's not in the Kobe/Shaq/TD 'greatest career' conversations
b) he's gotten old, so he's not in the LBJ/Durant type 'what will he do in the future' conversations
c) he's not a big deal in free agency - just signed what will probably be his final contract, and was generally considered to be pretty close to a lock to stay in Dallas - so he's not in the Amare/Bosh/Boozer type 'let's analyze this FA and what he means for the new team' conversations.

What do you want people to be saying about him?

Antipod
09-06-2010, 07:21 AM
^^^:clap:

IHeartNY
09-06-2010, 07:58 AM
Here's a European player who revolutionized the power forward position, one of the goofiest and most likeable personalities in the NBA, plays hard, averages around 25 PPG year in year out, and he's super-durable.... Yet, Dirk doesn't get talked about a lot, and I wonder if this is because people don't consider him an "upper echelon" type of guy?

For me, of the players that will be retiring in the next couple of years, him, Kobe Bryant, KG and Tim Duncan are among the few whose absence will have a big impact on the league.



THIS ! :clap:

Love Dirk. Just love him ... no homo. He will be missed as player and personality. Whish he gets his ring pretty soon, because he really deserves it. By far one of the players in the NBA with the best work-ethic ... intelligent guy and real character. Improved himself every year, MVP ... yada yada ...

_KB24_
09-06-2010, 08:03 AM
I think he is getting the proper recognition. Whether you like it or not, the guy has failed to win a ring with an abundance of talent raining in on him from Cuban in the last 7-8 years. That will always be a knock on him. He is still an all-time great though. He may just crack my Top 5 PFs of all-time.

JARVIS123
09-06-2010, 08:10 AM
No we don't take Dirk for granted.Offensive wise Dirk dominant.But all around game wise, he can not compete with Pau Gasol, K.G. Tim Duncan, Chris Bosh.

stejay
09-06-2010, 08:22 AM
yea, and I would say he is very undervalued in basketball circles

heyman321
09-06-2010, 08:24 AM
No we don't take Dirk for granted.Offensive wise Dirk dominant.But all around game wise, he can not compete with Pau Gasol, K.G. Tim Duncan, Chris Bosh.

Lol Chris Bosh is a complete scrub compared to Dirk. Even if Chris Bosh wins a couple of rings being the third wheel, I'll still consider Dirk better than him. Chris Bosh can't lead a team anywhere. Dirk at least got his team to the finals before Dwyane Wade went crazy.

Khalifa21
09-06-2010, 08:41 AM
He revolutionized the big man game and will go down in history as the greatest Euro ever and people recognize this so I don't think he's taken for granted.

He's shown he's the perfect #2 option as well.

JARVIS123
09-06-2010, 09:11 AM
Lol Chris Bosh is a complete scrub compared to Dirk. Even if Chris Bosh wins a couple of rings being the third wheel, I'll still consider Dirk better than him. Chris Bosh can't lead a team anywhere. Dirk at least got his team to the finals before Dwyane Wade went crazy.

realize what you said (team)Bosh never had a team like Dirk.I like Dirk, but the fact remaind Dirk is not a all around player.20/10 , a block or 2 is not Dirk game.

JARVIS123
09-06-2010, 09:20 AM
Listen Dirk is great,I love Dirk as a player.but the fact remainds he's not a all around player.

king4day
09-06-2010, 09:27 AM
He got an MVP, 4x NBA first teams, 4x NBA second teams, and 2x NBA third teams, along with a bunch of other awards. Just this week PSD voted him the #2 PF in the league (ahead of TD, Bosh, Stoudemire, Boozer, Garnett), and that yahoo guy had him at #4. Another thread in the last week had a huge amount of people saying they expect him to lead Dallas to #2 in the West this year.

So let's be clear - he gets a LOT of credit. A lot.

IF he doesn't get talked about enough, it's probably because
a) he doesn't have any championships, so he's not in the Kobe/Shaq/TD 'greatest career' conversations
b) he's gotten old, so he's not in the LBJ/Durant type 'what will he do in the future' conversations
c) he's not a big deal in free agency - just signed what will probably be his final contract, and was generally considered to be pretty close to a lock to stay in Dallas - so he's not in the Amare/Bosh/Boozer type 'let's analyze this FA and what he means for the new team' conversations.

What do you want people to be saying about him?

Perfect post :clap:

Hawkeye15
09-06-2010, 10:10 AM
He got an MVP, 4x NBA first teams, 4x NBA second teams, and 2x NBA third teams, along with a bunch of other awards. Just this week PSD voted him the #2 PF in the league (ahead of TD, Bosh, Stoudemire, Boozer, Garnett), and that yahoo guy had him at #4. Another thread in the last week had a huge amount of people saying they expect him to lead Dallas to #2 in the West this year.

So let's be clear - he gets a LOT of credit. A lot.

IF he doesn't get talked about enough, it's probably because
a) he doesn't have any championships, so he's not in the Kobe/Shaq/TD 'greatest career' conversations
b) he's gotten old, so he's not in the LBJ/Durant type 'what will he do in the future' conversations
c) he's not a big deal in free agency - just signed what will probably be his final contract, and was generally considered to be pretty close to a lock to stay in Dallas - so he's not in the Amare/Bosh/Boozer type 'let's analyze this FA and what he means for the new team' conversations.

What do you want people to be saying about him?

pretty much nailed it

mvb815
09-06-2010, 10:40 AM
realize what you said (team)Bosh never had a team like Dirk.I like Dirk, but the fact remaind Dirk is not a all around player.20/10 , a block or 2 is not Dirk game.

bosh had a decent team that he couldn't even lead to the playoffs.

fact is dirk was still the man on the finals led team. he has done a lot more than bosh as a leader.

llemon
09-06-2010, 10:53 AM
Great player.

Just not flashy enough to get a lot of attention outside of Dallas.

xbrackattackx
09-06-2010, 12:19 PM
He got an MVP, 4x NBA first teams, 4x NBA second teams, and 2x NBA third teams, along with a bunch of other awards. Just this week PSD voted him the #2 PF in the league (ahead of TD, Bosh, Stoudemire, Boozer, Garnett), and that yahoo guy had him at #4. Another thread in the last week had a huge amount of people saying they expect him to lead Dallas to #2 in the West this year.

So let's be clear - he gets a LOT of credit. A lot.

IF he doesn't get talked about enough, it's probably because
a) he doesn't have any championships, so he's not in the Kobe/Shaq/TD 'greatest career' conversations
b) he's gotten old, so he's not in the LBJ/Durant type 'what will he do in the future' conversations
c) he's not a big deal in free agency - just signed what will probably be his final contract, and was generally considered to be pretty close to a lock to stay in Dallas - so he's not in the Amare/Bosh/Boozer type 'let's analyze this FA and what he means for the new team' conversations.

What do you want people to be saying about him?

x2

Dr.J>YOU
09-06-2010, 12:52 PM
Dirk was the best player in the game in 2006 and 2007

Ragun
09-06-2010, 12:54 PM
He got an MVP, 4x NBA first teams, 4x NBA second teams, and 2x NBA third teams, along with a bunch of other awards. Just this week PSD voted him the #2 PF in the league (ahead of TD, Bosh, Stoudemire, Boozer, Garnett), and that yahoo guy had him at #4. Another thread in the last week had a huge amount of people saying they expect him to lead Dallas to #2 in the West this year.

So let's be clear - he gets a LOT of credit. A lot.

IF he doesn't get talked about enough, it's probably because
a) he doesn't have any championships, so he's not in the Kobe/Shaq/TD 'greatest career' conversations
b) he's gotten old, so he's not in the LBJ/Durant type 'what will he do in the future' conversations
c) he's not a big deal in free agency - just signed what will probably be his final contract, and was generally considered to be pretty close to a lock to stay in Dallas - so he's not in the Amare/Bosh/Boozer type 'let's analyze this FA and what he means for the new team' conversations.

What do you want people to be saying about him?

/thread

Sadds The Gr8
09-06-2010, 01:16 PM
He got an MVP, 4x NBA first teams, 4x NBA second teams, and 2x NBA third teams, along with a bunch of other awards. Just this week PSD voted him the #2 PF in the league (ahead of TD, Bosh, Stoudemire, Boozer, Garnett), and that yahoo guy had him at #4. Another thread in the last week had a huge amount of people saying they expect him to lead Dallas to #2 in the West this year.

So let's be clear - he gets a LOT of credit. A lot.

IF he doesn't get talked about enough, it's probably because
a) he doesn't have any championships, so he's not in the Kobe/Shaq/TD 'greatest career' conversations
b) he's gotten old, so he's not in the LBJ/Durant type 'what will he do in the future' conversations
c) he's not a big deal in free agency - just signed what will probably be his final contract, and was generally considered to be pretty close to a lock to stay in Dallas - so he's not in the Amare/Bosh/Boozer type 'let's analyze this FA and what he means for the new team' conversations.

What do you want people to be saying about him?

Thread-closing post.

Baller1
09-06-2010, 01:46 PM
He's not taken for granted, he's just not a winner and I'm assuming that it tends to lead people away from crediting him.

cowboyz180
09-06-2010, 01:54 PM
Yes!!!

SouthSideRookie
09-06-2010, 02:03 PM
He's not taken for granted, he's just not a winner and I'm assuming that it tends to lead people away from crediting him.

x1000

PLAYERS FAN
09-06-2010, 03:15 PM
I never took Dirk for granted! Dirk is the best PF in the NBA right now. I don't hold the 06 NBA Finals against him because the refs cheated for the heat to win that championship!

DoJoTheSlasher
09-06-2010, 04:24 PM
He doesn't get talked about as much as others because he isn't as flashy as Bron, Kobe, Wade, etc...

He might not have a ring when he retires but he will still be top 10 in all time scoring and will be a top 25 player of all time and possibly a top 5 PF of all time. He isn't Kobe or Duncan and I respect that, but he is a HOF 1st Ballod Lock and one of the greatest ever to play the game.

HakeemTheDream
09-06-2010, 04:29 PM
He's a bad defender at a position where defense is important, and for that I think it's only fair that his offensive greatness be taken for granted. With that out the way though, he's definitely one of the greatest offensive players of all time.

HakeemTheDream
09-06-2010, 04:31 PM
I never took Dirk for granted! Dirk is the best PF in the NBA right now. I don't hold the 06 NBA Finals against him because the refs cheated for the heat to win that championship!

It could be argued that Pau Gasol is the best PF in the game right now.

Bruno
09-06-2010, 04:40 PM
He got an MVP, 4x NBA first teams, 4x NBA second teams, and 2x NBA third teams, along with a bunch of other awards. Just this week PSD voted him the #2 PF in the league (ahead of TD, Bosh, Stoudemire, Boozer, Garnett), and that yahoo guy had him at #4. Another thread in the last week had a huge amount of people saying they expect him to lead Dallas to #2 in the West this year.

So let's be clear - he gets a LOT of credit. A lot.

IF he doesn't get talked about enough, it's probably because
a) he doesn't have any championships, so he's not in the Kobe/Shaq/TD 'greatest career' conversations
b) he's gotten old, so he's not in the LBJ/Durant type 'what will he do in the future' conversations
c) he's not a big deal in free agency - just signed what will probably be his final contract, and was generally considered to be pretty close to a lock to stay in Dallas - so he's not in the Amare/Bosh/Boozer type 'let's analyze this FA and what he means for the new team' conversations.

What do you want people to be saying about him?

Especially impressive considering he was competing against Tim Duncan and KG for those honors.

CBCable
09-06-2010, 04:55 PM
He doesn't get talked about as much as others because he isn't as flashy as Bron, Kobe, Wade, etc...

He might not have a ring when he retires but he will still be top 10 in all time scoring and will be a top 25 player of all time and possibly a top 5 PF of all time. He isn't Kobe or Duncan and I respect that, but he is a HOF 1st Ballod Lock and one of the greatest ever to play the game.

This. No one doubts Steve Nash's heart or impact on the game. Where did Pau lead Memphis as the #1 option? Where did Kobe take the Lakers post-Shaq/pre-Gasol?

It feels like Dirk as a superstar is held to higher standards, while constantly being doubted and disrespected.

Dirk isn't Kobe or Duncan, that's absolutely true. No sane Dirk or Mavs fan would argue otherwise. But Jet Terry is your perennial second option? You had Erick Dampier and Gana Diop manning the middle in that finals run? Adrian Griffin is your starting shooting guard?? Please.

Having been able to watch Dirk night in and night out, game after game for years. The consistency, the work ethic, and yes, the HEART he shows every single game is staggering.

Anyone who questions Dirk as a leader or a clutch performer is simply uneducated and underexposed.

thekmp211
09-06-2010, 05:42 PM
This. No one doubts Steve Nash's heart or impact on the game. Where did Pau lead Memphis as the #1 option? Where did Kobe take the Lakers post-Shaq/pre-Gasol?

It feels like Dirk as a superstar is held to higher standards, while constantly being doubted and disrespected.

Dirk isn't Kobe or Duncan, that's absolutely true. No sane Dirk or Mavs fan would argue otherwise. But Jet Terry is your perennial second option? You had Erick Dampier and Gana Diop manning the middle in that finals run? Adrian Griffin is your starting shooting guard?? Please.

Having been able to watch Dirk night in and night out, game after game for years. The consistency, the work ethic, and yes, the HEART he shows every single game is staggering.

Anyone who questions Dirk as a leader or a clutch performer is simply uneducated and underexposed.

come on, he's had it much better than guys like kobe, pau and kg. i agree that he hasn't really been paired with a truly GREAT player, but he has had talent around him. i think too much is expected of him personally. regardless, this has been covered well in this thread.

xxcubs22xx
09-06-2010, 06:26 PM
It depends on the individual, and how you value (for lack of a better term) NBA players.

I have never underappreciated Dirk, if anything i appreciate him more then most people. He is extremely talented, has been an ambassador of the game, has accolades, the list goes on and on. Did i mention? Dirk is a baller. He's been making it rain his whole career.

He doesn't get talked about because he is a different type of competitor, albeit as effective as the best in the league.

CBCable
09-06-2010, 06:38 PM
come on, he's had it much better than guys like kobe, pau and kg. i agree that he hasn't really been paired with a truly GREAT player, but he has had talent around him. i think too much is expected of him personally. regardless, this has been covered well in this thread.

you cannot honestly believe dirk has ever had talent around him comparable to any of those players when they won their rings. not kobe, not pau, not kg.

edit: that is to say, give dirk shaq, or kobe, paul pierce, ray allen, even ginobli and parker and we would most likely be looking at a very different decade of basketball.

SouthSideRookie
09-06-2010, 07:06 PM
you cannot honestly believe dirk has ever had talent around him comparable to any of those players when they won their rings. not kobe, not pau, not kg.

edit: that is to say, give dirk shaq, or kobe, paul pierce, ray allen, even ginobli and parker and we would most likely be looking at a very different decade of basketball.

How is it that the Mavs had all the 50+ win seasons if Dirk hasn't had a good supporting cast. Stop trying to devalue other greats accomplishments, to their credit they have taken advantage of the moments and performed when it's mattered in big moments, hence the reason why they have rings. Also, I can't really remember if any of the players you've mentioned have lost a series that they were actually favored to win, thats something you can't say about Dirk. You know whats speaks louder than numbers, RESULTS, and obviously whoever hasn't figured out by now that Dirk lead teams can't get it done in the playoffs is just straight up being naive.

Im just tired of all the excuses Lebron and Mavs fans have about not having good supporting cast, that is so lame considering those teams finished with such good records.

CBCable
09-06-2010, 07:11 PM
How is it that the Mavs had all the 50+ win seasons if Dirk hasn't had a good supporting cast. Stop trying to devalue other greats accomplishments, to their credit they have taken advantage of the moments and performed when it's mattered in big moments, hence the reason why they have rings. You know whats speaks louder than numbers, RESULTS, and obviously whoever hasn't figured out by now that Dirk lead teams can't get it done in the playoffs is just straight up being naive.

Im just tired of all the excuses Lebron and Mavs fans have about not having good supporting cast, that is so lame considering those teams finished with such good records.

I'm not making excuses really. I admitted Dirk is not Tim Duncan or Kobe Bryant. I am not a Mavs homer. Barring a miracle or a trade, Dirk will not win a ring. The Mavs will not win a title.

We are just discussing a perpetually underrated and underappreciated player.

And the reasons those teams finished with such good records are named Lebron and Dirk.

thekmp211
09-06-2010, 07:19 PM
you cannot honestly believe dirk has ever had talent around him comparable to any of those players when they won their rings. not kobe, not pau, not kg.

edit: that is to say, give dirk shaq, or kobe, paul pierce, ray allen, even ginobli and parker and we would most likely be looking at a very different decade of basketball.

nono what i meant is their teams pre-ring. kobe's post-shaq, pre-pau era. kg on the wolves. none of those guys had the talent that dirk had around him. once the guys you mentioned showed up, it's a different story. i agree with your second point.

CBCable
09-06-2010, 07:26 PM
nono what i meant is their teams pre-ring. kobe's post-shaq, pre-pau era. kg on the wolves. none of those guys had the talent that dirk had around him. once the guys you mentioned showed up, it's a different story. i agree with your second point.

ah, my mistake, sorry. i understand now and completely agree.

Jewelz0376
09-06-2010, 07:53 PM
Dirk is a great scorer but there is no excuse for being a player of his caliber at 7 foot and being such a poor rebounder.. and he's an average defender as best... Dirk too me is a player who only cares about his offense because he obviously doesn't care too much about rebounding and his defense should much better for a player than has his bball iq..

jackdawson
09-06-2010, 08:01 PM
Dirk is an awesome player, no doubt. I agree he has been undervalued over the years, but I would also say that Nash deserved the mvp he won.

Giaps
09-06-2010, 08:18 PM
Always loved Dirk's game. He's one of my all-time favorite players and IMO, been the best PF in the NBA for the last few years...