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View Full Version : Should AA consider trading Marcum?



mkcavy
09-03-2010, 03:24 PM
I've heard this brought up a couple times, and even Jeff Blair talked about it on the Fan 590 last night. The idea is the Jays have 4 young, legit starters in Marcum, Romero, Morrow and Cecil, and one could be dealt this offseason to help deficiencies in the offence.

I think we can all agree that after their performances this season, Romero, Morrow and Cecil shouldn't be dealt... too young, too talented. This leaves Marcum as the only option left.

Personally, I'm against trading him. I think he is capable of controlling games, no matter what team he's facing. I know his numbers aren't great against most AL East teams this year, but he hasn't faced them enough for me to make a educated decision about his ability to win against those teams.

The guy has one of the best changeups in the game. Period. But as Blair pointed out there is still some concern with his delivery, and therefore his health. So there's a good chance AA could sell high after his performance this season.

What do you think? Trade Marcum for a bat, or stick with our front 4?

BlueJayFanDan
09-03-2010, 03:40 PM
Only consider trading him is someone is willing to give up a couple of very good prospects.

Asham
09-03-2010, 03:48 PM
Trade

To Cardinals
Shaun Marcum and a bag of baseballs

To Blue Jays
Albert Pujols, Chris carpenter, adam wainwright and matt holliday

mkcavy
09-03-2010, 03:51 PM
Trade

To Cardinals
Shaun Marcum and a bag of baseballs

Are we talking game balls or batting practice balls? Don't want to give up too much here...

D-Train#35
09-03-2010, 03:58 PM
I'd trade him for a proven position player of equal or younger age with equal success at a position of need. Probably doesn't leave a lot of options.

JaysFan87
09-03-2010, 04:01 PM
I would definitely explore the option and see whats out there. in a couple of years he will get very expensive and i dont know if he will be worth that much money going forward. Im not saying its a guarantee but like i said i would explore and see whats there. If what is coming back are good young positional pieces then i might do it.

Bob_at_york
09-03-2010, 04:37 PM
I have been saying for a couple of months now that we should explore trading Marcum. Don't get me wrong, he is my favourite starter on the staff but he has had a great season, his value is probably high and when we are ready to contend, I am not sure if he will still be pitching at THIS level.

North Yorker
09-03-2010, 04:42 PM
Absolutely.

Whenever Drabek is ready then move Marcum for a legit future 3B or Lf/leadoff hitter.

broncosfan_101
09-03-2010, 04:44 PM
With his low GB%, Marcum would benefit more than most from playing in a pitcher-friendly park. Like Petco. We need a 1B. Like Adrian Gonzalez. If SD doesn't think they can get an extension done with Gonzalez, does anyone think a package revolving around Marcum and d'Arnaud gets him to Toronto? Preferably we get to work out an extension with AGon before the trade, but if we don't and he walks, we still get 2 high draft picks. AA could make this a Cliff Lee to Seattle type situation, taking a one-year shot without losing any value in the farm system.

Twitchy
09-03-2010, 05:33 PM
I keep flip flopping on whether or not they should trade him.

On the one hand he's injury prone, and despite being 28 has never thrown 200 innings. If the Jays could upgrade 3B/RF (whatever Bautista isn't playing), or get a 1B/SP prospect it'd be hard to pass that up.

But then again if you trade him you can't just assume the next prospect who takes his place is going to dominate from the start. Look at how long it took Cecil and Romero to develop in the majors. It was at least a year or two before they could even be mid to top of the rotation starters. If the Jays are planning on winning, the prospects we have now who aren't currently in the majors aren't going to be key pieces for a competitive team. I'd like to believe that Arencibia could make an impact in the next few years...but look at how long it's taking Snider to adjust. And he's the best position prospect we've had in a while.

You could trade him now, but if you expect the Jays to be competitive around 2012/2013, then it's unlikely guys like Drabek are going to be impact pitchers in the majors by that point. They'll likely be doing what Rzep did this year and Cecil did in 2009.

So for me it comes down to whether or not you think the Jays will be ready by 2012/2013. I think they'll be a very good team by then, and if that's the case then Marcum should be here playing a prominent role.

Halladay
09-03-2010, 07:59 PM
If AA is serious about rebuilding, knowing we won't likely be a contender for 4-5 years and given Marcum's questionable health, everything points to him being dealt at some point in the near future. If someone is willing to give up just one real good blue chipper, I think you've got to pull the trigger.

StayOnBoard
09-03-2010, 08:24 PM
With his low GB%, Marcum would benefit more than most from playing in a pitcher-friendly park. Like Petco. We need a 1B. Like Adrian Gonzalez. If SD doesn't think they can get an extension done with Gonzalez, does anyone think a package revolving around Marcum and d'Arnaud gets him to Toronto? Preferably we get to work out an extension with AGon before the trade, but if we don't and he walks, we still get 2 high draft picks. AA could make this a Cliff Lee to Seattle type situation, taking a one-year shot without losing any value in the farm system.

I completely agree with you - but even without getting an impact bat like Gonzalez, I'd still trade Marcum for the right package.

If I could get a stud prospect or two - I'd definitely take it given the depth we have. Move Stewart and Drabek to the rotation and look out for the 2012 Toronto Blue Jays :clap:

Seriously though - I predict he's traded - and by Christmas

T.O. Fan
09-03-2010, 08:29 PM
Marcum for Kemp ;)

Asham
09-03-2010, 08:39 PM
Drabek and Marcum for Adrian Gonzalez

BlueJayFanDan
09-03-2010, 09:06 PM
If AA is serious about rebuilding, knowing we won't likely be a contender for 4-5 years and given Marcum's questionable health, everything points to him being dealt at some point in the near future. If someone is willing to give up just one real good blue chipper, I think you've got to pull the trigger.

If our bats were a little more consistent (especially Lind and Hill) and we had not blown near as many games with our bullpen, and did not have Litsch or Tallet start any games this season, we would be in the playoff race and maybe even leading the division as we speak. How anyone can possibly think this team is 4-5 years away from contending in a year where the playoffs could have been a legit possibility is beyond me. Just last week before the Yankees started their win streak we were only like 10 or 11 games out of the division lead. In the toughest division in Baseball. Maybe I am just optimistic but we are a good team. Frustrating at times. But good. And we are only getting better. We could contend next season. Pickup some good FA bullpen guys and add another good bat to this lineup and there is no doubt in my mind we can compete for the division next season.

B2theRY
09-03-2010, 10:19 PM
marcum for prince fielder :D


personally i dont want them dealing marcum
if they do they better get a young proven everyday player who can hit for average and power.

DiPasquale7
09-03-2010, 10:40 PM
How about Marcum and a prospect or 2 to KC for Mike Moustakas.

We need a 3B of the future and Moustakas can be just that. Marcum would be a nice #2 or #3 behind Greinke in that rotation.

Moustakas hit .325 with 36 HRs and 123 RBI's between AA and AAA last season. He's 21 years old and could arrive in the majors as soon as 2011.

He's probably not available but if we could get him we'd look like this is a few years:

1. CF - Gose
2. 2B - Hill
3. 1B - Lind
4. RF - Bautista
5. LF - Snider
6. 3B - Moustakas
7. DH - Arencebia
8. C - D'Arnaud
9. SS - Hechvarria

Rotation:
1. Morrow
2. Romero
3. Cecil
4. Drabek
5. Stewart

Bullpen:
C - Jenkins
SU - Purcey
Roenicke
Accardo
Jansenn
Rzepcinski

nithanyo
09-03-2010, 10:46 PM
I think AA should consider trading anyone as long as the right return is involved. This includes names such as Bautista and Romero as well. After all this team traded away the best pitcher in the game so trading away Marcum is barely a scratch.

I would package marcum with a litsch or mills and try n get a pitcher with a big upside or a hitter like prince fielder(locked up)

DiPasquale7
09-03-2010, 11:01 PM
I think AA should consider trading anyone as long as the right return is involved. This includes names such as Bautista and Romero as well. After all this team traded away the best pitcher in the game so trading away Marcum is barely a scratch.

I would package marcum with a litsch or mills and try n get a pitcher with a big upside or a hitter like prince fielder(locked up)

I'd like to package Marcum to maximize his value, I just think it'd be best to target blue chip prospects at positions of need (Moustakas as 3B) instead of high priced established players. A guy like Moustakas would be cheap and controllable for yrs to come.

superfio
09-03-2010, 11:10 PM
If our bats were a little more consistent (especially Lind and Hill) and we had not blown near as many games with our bullpen, and did not have Litsch or Tallet start any games this season, we would be in the playoff race and maybe even leading the division as we speak. How anyone can possibly think this team is 4-5 years away from contending in a year where the playoffs could have been a legit possibility is beyond me. Just last week before the Yankees started their win streak we were only like 10 or 11 games out of the division lead. In the toughest division in Baseball. Maybe I am just optimistic but we are a good team. Frustrating at times. But good. And we are only getting better. We could contend next season. Pickup some good FA bullpen guys and add another good bat to this lineup and there is no doubt in my mind we can compete for the division next season.


Actually, thats true.

Feels like we are a LF, 1B and a 3B/RF (1 filled by Bautista) away from contention. Probably need a 5th starter and 2 more bullpen arms as well.

Not too worried about 5th starter as Drabek, Mills, Richmond, Litsch, Rcepzhinksi are all knocking on the door

Considering LF/RF corner outfielder, i do miss Rios. He checked out like a idiot but he has the bat and speed we need.

Asham
09-04-2010, 12:24 AM
How about Marcum and a prospect or 2 to KC for Mike Moustakas.

I dont see why the Royals would do this. They arent contending anytime soon

BlueJayFanDan
09-04-2010, 01:18 AM
I dont see why the Royals would do this. They arent contending anytime soon

Plus the Royals would not trade Moustakas.

Pride
09-04-2010, 01:43 AM
I dont see why the Royals would do this. They arent contending anytime soon

I don't know about that. They have arguably the best minor league system at the moment, and play in an easier division than ours. They could probably compete earlier than we can, and as soon as Moore gets fired. But yeah, the Royals are not who we should trade with at the moment. A contender would pony up way more for Marcum. Marcum seems like he likes what we are doing and wants to be part of the future, so unless we get a very good return I wouldn't deal him.

Another thing regarding Marcum is he still appears injury prone. Until he can prove he can stay healthy, I doubt many clubs will seriously consider him; Not for fair value at least.

superfio
09-04-2010, 03:52 AM
I like this debate alot, and some of the main considerations are difficult to decide one way or another.

Salary demands : When is Marcum due for a big payday? Flip him early before he cripples a middle-market team in contention

But if he is cheap, he slots in perfectly behind Romero and Morrow as the 3rd starter. He also relaxes everybody else in the clubhouse as well. Very important.

Injury concerns : Always a question mark about Marcum's long term health. Time for AA to buy low sell high?

Is it similar to Scott Kazmir's situation with the Rays a year ago, when the team can sniff that he is close to breaking down


Its been mentioned many times, but a future rotation of Romero-Morrow-Marcum-Cecil-Drabek and couple others (rzep, richmond, litsch, mills) will be scary!

If Marcum is heathly, we should have enough money to satisfy him and try to acquire productive bats through free agency? Someone mentioned theres a boatload of 1B in market next year

statquo
09-04-2010, 04:02 AM
Marcum for Kemp ;)

holla

ILDD
09-04-2010, 07:18 AM
Marcum for Brett Lawrie and play him at 3B

Bring up Drabek and Stewart and accept that 2011 is another building year, get ready to really contend in 2012.

wamco
09-04-2010, 07:48 AM
Keep Marcum and sign a bat. Pretty simple.

Asham
09-04-2010, 10:43 AM
I don't know about that. They have arguably the best minor league system at the moment, and play in an easier division than ours. They could probably compete earlier than we can, and as soon as Moore gets fired. But yeah, the Royals are not who we should trade with at the moment. A contender would pony up way more for Marcum. Marcum seems like he likes what we are doing and wants to be part of the future, so unless we get a very good return I wouldn't deal him.

Another thing regarding Marcum is he still appears injury prone. Until he can prove he can stay healthy, I doubt many clubs will seriously consider him; Not for fair value at least.

They might have the best minor league system which is how their going to contend, so trading arguably their best piece from it for a veteran player doesnt make a ton of sense to me. Even if they bring up a bunch of prospects next year to contend, all those guys are going to need a year or 2 to get acclimated to the majors

1hardcore
09-04-2010, 11:14 AM
No way!!!!

Marcum is a premium!! the jays need more than just 5 good starters... They need about 8 just in case of injuries