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View Full Version : Why do you think there aren't more good NBA defenders?



Joshtd1
09-01-2010, 04:43 PM
While there are plenty of damn good offensive players in the NBA today, why do you think there aren't more good defenders? Are they not smart enough? Just don't have the passion?

Just think about it..for example a guy like Rudy Gay is extremely athletic, which helps him become a good scorer. With his length and all around athletic ability why isn't he a good defender? There are plenty of guys like that in the league who could be elite defenders, but aren't.

Thoughts?

BOSTON617
09-01-2010, 04:50 PM
a lot of players play great defense..... the fans and espn just care about offense.... ben wallace is the perfect example as well as tony allen.... but players are just so explosive noone cares

llemon
09-01-2010, 04:51 PM
The NBA rules changes

Hawkeye15
09-01-2010, 04:54 PM
rule changes, is a big one. You can't expect to stay in front of some of these freak athletes when you have no clue where they are going and they do.
That being said, I think defense needs to be not only a team thing, but an individual thing. Battier for example watched hours of video a season, studied advanced stats, and got to the point he knew what to do with opponents. Most won't spend that much time on the defensive side of the game.
flagrant 1/2's as well. you can't hit a guy anymore.

asandhu23
09-01-2010, 05:00 PM
Wannabe Jordans/Carters/ Millers/Iversons. Everyone today wants to be the flashy dunkers, last second shot taking game winners, doing crazy *** fancy moves etc. They don't see the pride in the being the big man anymore. The whole mentality of basketball players changed Erving era

Jewelz0376
09-01-2010, 05:00 PM
If people take time to pay attention there are still plenty of good defenders in the league...but the biggest reason is hand checking...That rule alone makes it much more difficult to say in front of people than be4 the the rule...Also flopping has become so much of being a good defender it sometimes takes away from it...

Like I said though they're still out there...guys like Sepolsha (sp?), Varajeo, Perk, Rondo, etc...When I played in college I prided myself on my D, so I def take notice of players who play D....

Ramon Nivar
09-01-2010, 05:00 PM
Defenders don't get ***** and don't get paid.

Hellcrooner
09-01-2010, 05:25 PM
for the same reason people like the Arenas and Iversons and dont feel so high on the Jason Kidds.

Fans only care for scoring.

stejay
09-01-2010, 05:26 PM
rule changes and changes in attitude, although Dwight Howard, and a few years ago Marcus Camby are an exception to the rule. Also, Ron Artest plays awesome defense, so they are still at large in the NBA, just gotta look harder.

stejay
09-01-2010, 05:31 PM
for the same reason people like the Arenas and Iversons and dont feel so high on the Jason Kidds.

Fans only care for scoring.

wouldnt say that... CP3 and Howard are 2 of the most marketable and adored players in the NBA today, and neither are great scorers in the true sense of the word. True, Dwight has spectacular dunks, but he averaged 18.3 ppg last year, and was defensive player of the year, what he is primarily best at. Plus Chris Paul is more known for his assists, not so much his scoring, averaging 18.7 PPG last year, and averaging 10.7 assists a game. There are exceptions, as you see to the rule. Another is 2 time MVP Steve Nash, like CP3, known more for assists and doing the simple things extremely well, rather than flashy plays

John Walls Era
09-01-2010, 05:35 PM
Rule change is a big thing, but you don't make highlight reels by playing good D (getting blocks doesn't mean you're a good defender). At this day and age, highlights only involve scoring and the occasional block; no one is going to show a clip of Battier playing great D. The younger generation exposed to this will care more about O and less about D. Playing D is not a glamorous job.

cowboyz180
09-01-2010, 05:41 PM
ruel change and the media does not give enough credit to the good defenders!

Coqui77
09-01-2010, 05:41 PM
Rule change is a big thing, but you don't make highlight reels by playing good D (getting blocks doesn't mean you're a good defender). At this day and age, highlights only involve scoring and the occasional block; no one is going to show a clip of Battier playing great D. The younger generation exposed to this will care more about O and less about D. Playing D is not a glamorous job.

Agreed, aslo the Refs suck...

llemon
09-01-2010, 05:56 PM
Defenders don't get ***** and don't get paid.

But if that's all you can do, and do it well, it could get you a ten year NBA career making well over $20 mil in the process..

Baller1
09-01-2010, 06:09 PM
To be famous, you have to score points and appear as flashy as possible to the common fan. Simple is that.

kArSoN RyDaH
09-01-2010, 06:21 PM
it does seem as if defense is undervalued in the nba. idk if it is because of the rules or if everyone just thinks scoring is the main way to contribute to a team to have success. i personally love players who take pride in their defense and play it tough.

icej
09-01-2010, 06:23 PM
Agreed, aslo the Refs suck...
Occasionally they suck, but most of the times its the new defensive rules that makes it look suck, specially in an important game like the 2002 NBA finals.

But I agree to some post, there are still good NBA defenders out there, you can even compare their skill to the past defenders, its just that the new rules made the NBA to a more offensive fluid game, that really took the glory out of defensive minded players.

thawv
09-01-2010, 06:25 PM
Offense get the big pay day. Not defense.

da wood
09-01-2010, 06:40 PM
OK clearly you guys are all young because you are not watching the same game i watch today and used to watch back in the day. Everything is broken down into eras right. We had the Jordan era and the post Jordan era which will eventually belong to Kobe i'm thinking. not take jordans era that was the era of the big man and we had great post defenders now the perimeter d was garbage we had a few players back then who had good d but for who everyone was trying to gaurd jordans and drexlers and so on no they were boo boo. I mean they had like dumars and maxwell who were nice but at the end of the day they were only 6'4 thats why jordan perfected the fade away. Fast forward to the kobe era. This day we have guys that are 6'6, 6'7, 6'8, 6'9, and 6'10 that are athletic enough to stay infront of the perimeter player the league knew what they were doing. imagine if the defenders of today were able to hand check. we dont know. you know why. because as much as they were able to get away with as far as hand checking on offense you was able to hand check on deffense too. lets just say that the league deffender havent went anywhere mater of fact think who were the deffenders of jordans era and who are players known as deffenders in kobe/james era.

kdspurman
09-01-2010, 06:42 PM
It doesnt get you highlights on ESPN maybe who knows. It would be nice to see someone at the 1 or 2 get that defensive tenacity that usually a SF displays and shut down other guards. Guys like Bowen, Barnes, Artest, Marion etc.. These guys accept just that role of being a defender and getting shots when they're open. A lot has to do with these athletes accepting that role. Man someone with Lebrons athleticism could really be a defender who can shut down the others team best player. I mean Bowen when he played guarded positions anywhere from PG-PF. Lebron could easily do that. But it takes that commitment because it takes a lot of energy to run around chasing guys through screens and constantly being there contesting shots, and being scrappy. If you use all that energy on the defensive end, it's tough to do as much damage on the offensive end for anyone.

Ultimately, I believe it comes down to character. They say you can't teach defense which is true. You're either committed to being a great defender, or just committed to be out there to guard another player. Some guys got it, most don't. I dont consider someone with the most spg or bpg as the best defender per say, but someone who makes their opponent work very hard for everything they get and not being afraid to get a little physical.

SteveNash
09-01-2010, 07:19 PM
Defenders don't get ***** and don't get paid.

This, it's a pretty thankless job a lot of coaches don't even seem to appreciate it.

pistonsfanomg
09-01-2010, 08:51 PM
David Stern and Money

Remember the Pistons defense in 2004? lol they banned it I forgot what it was.

MTLGW
09-02-2010, 01:10 AM
If people take time to pay attention there are still plenty of good defenders in the league...but the biggest reason is hand checking...That rule alone makes it much more difficult to say in front of people than be4 the the rule...Also flopping has become so much of being a good defender it sometimes takes away from it...

Like I said though they're still out there...guys like Sepolsha (sp?), Varajeo, Perk, Rondo, etc...When I played in college I prided myself on my D, so I def take notice of players who play D....

THANK YOU!!! Im tired of peeps think that, "o NBA players nowadays aint got no work ethic, they dont play defense like the old skewl players".....its because of the NO HAND CHECKING RULE!!! back n da old skewl days u could slap a player left or right, which gives the defender all the advantage.......nowadays it take REAL SKILLS to play GREAT defense b/c its illegal to hand check.....and also this is purely economics.....if u cant hand check then scoring will go up because all the advantage is given to the offensive player which creates the notion that players nowadays r more offensively talented, which is not neccesarily true because they hav a easier time to score than compare wit old skewl players who had to go through hand checking.

DerekRE_3
09-02-2010, 01:13 AM
They don't allow players to defend anyone, and defense doesn't get you on the highlight reels.

Catfish1314
09-02-2010, 01:16 AM
They don't allow players to defend anyone, and defense doesn't get you on the highlight reels.

This.

And the general consensus among NBA players (not all of them, of course) is that offense is more fun to play than defense. For the reasons Derek listed and because the vast majority of fans appreciate offense more. The same reason why defensive football players have borderline orgasms on the field when the return a fumble or an interception for a touchdown.

DerekRE_3
09-02-2010, 01:20 AM
Another thing is a lot of players coming into the NBA were stars/primary scorers on their college team. They weren't asked to be a defensive stopper. They come in with the mindset of a scorer, and not a defender. Obviously not everyone in the NBA can be a star, so a lot of players come in without the mindset of a defensive player and have trouble adjusting to their new role in the NBA.

But I think a big part of it is the way they call fouls.

MTLGW
09-02-2010, 01:22 AM
OK clearly you guys are all young because you are not watching the same game i watch today and used to watch back in the day. Everything is broken down into eras right. We had the Jordan era and the post Jordan era which will eventually belong to Kobe i'm thinking. not take jordans era that was the era of the big man and we had great post defenders now the perimeter d was garbage we had a few players back then who had good d but for who everyone was trying to gaurd jordans and drexlers and so on no they were boo boo. I mean they had like dumars and maxwell who were nice but at the end of the day they were only 6'4 thats why jordan perfected the fade away. Fast forward to the kobe era. This day we have guys that are 6'6, 6'7, 6'8, 6'9, and 6'10 that are athletic enough to stay infront of the perimeter player the league knew what they were doing. imagine if the defenders of today were able to hand check. we dont know. you know why. because as much as they were able to get away with as far as hand checking on offense you was able to hand check on deffense too. lets just say that the league deffender havent went anywhere mater of fact think who were the deffenders of jordans era and who are players known as deffenders in kobe/james era.

good point....i cant imagine if hand checking is allowed and wit players that r 6'6 6'7 or 6'8 and dat r athletic and guard players like kobe. Definetly dat would be disastrous for modern superstars. Im actually glad they got rid of handchecking, but i wish they could be more consistent with the calls but obviously dats impossible because hand checking is such a subtle move.

OA SLAY
09-02-2010, 01:29 AM
$$$

mynameismo
09-02-2010, 01:33 AM
Defenders don't get ***** and don't get paid.

This.

How much is a Shane Battier or a Tony Allen paid?

And.. How much did the likes of Kyle Korver and Channing Frye got this offseason?

There's your answer.

D-Will4Prez
09-02-2010, 01:35 AM
for the same reason people like the Arenas and Iversons and dont feel so high on the Jason Kidds.

Fans only care for scoring.

Iverson was a great defender :confused:

And what about the love Rondo is getting? That's not all because of his scoring...

29$JerZ
09-02-2010, 01:42 AM
Defense gives you a reputation
Offense gives you a paycheck

DODGERS&LAKERS
09-02-2010, 01:49 AM
Why do you think there are no good defenders? The NBA has never had a harder time scoring than they have in the past 10 to 12 years. The defenders are obviously doing something right.

_KB24_
09-02-2010, 02:20 AM
Blame it on the whole notion: "I want to be Like Mike" :mad:

The current generation grew up adoring Jordan and the flash he brought into the game, of course they want to emulate that. Too bad they didn't take the time to realize that they were also watching the greatest defensive player of all time IMO. Blame it on Mike fellas :P

DerekRE_3
09-02-2010, 02:23 AM
Blame it on the whole notion: "I want to be Like Mike" :mad:

The current generation grew up adoring Jordan and the flash he brought into the game, of course they want to emulate that. Too bad they didn't take the time to realize that they were also watching the greatest defensive player of all time IMO. Blame it on Mike fellas :P

Except for the fact that MJ was the best two way player in NBA history and was at one point the best offensive and defensive player in the league.

Joshtd1
09-02-2010, 06:52 AM
Why do you think there are no good defenders? The NBA has never had a harder time scoring than they have in the past 10 to 12 years. The defenders are obviously doing something right.

I never said there werent any good defenders. I was just asking why someone with the athleticism of Rudy Gay isnt a good defender, when he has the tools to be elite. Same with pretty much all the great scorers, their athleticism helps them out on offense, it should help them on defense.

IndyRealist
09-02-2010, 09:17 AM
Defenders don't get ***** and don't get paid.

This.

Basketball players aren't stupid. Defense may get you into the league, but scoring gets you paid.

IndyRealist
09-02-2010, 09:19 AM
Why do you think there are no good defenders? The NBA has never had a harder time scoring than they have in the past 10 to 12 years. The defenders are obviously doing something right.

Because the pace of the game has slowed dramatically.

da wood
09-02-2010, 09:28 AM
Except for the fact that MJ was the best two way player in NBA history and was at one point the best offensive and defensive player in the league.

i agree to a certain extent. mike might have been the best two way player at that point but he was never the best at both because scottie was the best defender in the league hands down. scottie is that guy that you are looking for as far as the skillset and size.

HakeemTheDream
09-02-2010, 09:33 AM
No handchecking, the 3 defensive seconds in the key, and the increasingly whistle happy refs

Joshtd1
09-02-2010, 09:38 AM
The hand checking I agree to some extent, but players should have adapted to that rule already. The defensive 3 in the key doesnt have much to do with being a good defender IMO..

I do agree that the nba is pussified now though, and souch soft fouls shouldnt be called. I hate seeing when a little point guard barely touches a big guy, and he gets called for a foul. There is no way such little contact from somoene a lot smaller will really mess a big guy up.

Law25
09-02-2010, 09:38 AM
THANK YOU!!! Im tired of peeps think that, "o NBA players nowadays aint got no work ethic, they dont play defense like the old skewl players".....its because of the NO HAND CHECKING RULE!!! back n da old skewl days u could slap a player left or right, which gives the defender all the advantage.......nowadays it take REAL SKILLS to play GREAT defense b/c its illegal to hand check.....and also this is purely economics.....if u cant hand check then scoring will go up because all the advantage is given to the offensive player which creates the notion that players nowadays r more offensively talented, which is not neccesarily true because they hav a easier time to score than compare wit old skewl players who had to go through hand checking.

^This. Also i think the NBA is more about team D than any one defender being an shut down player. In the Kobe era teams like the Spurs, Pistons, the Celtics, I can make an strong case for the Lakers, and also James Cavs come to mind. Ther are an few players though who pay more attention to defence than others like Battier, Artest, Barnes, Howard, Josh Smith to name an few. Also Kobe (when it matters) on ball defence, but for the most part i think it about team D these days. Maybe the zone plays an part in that.

Khalifa21
09-02-2010, 09:42 AM
Being good offensively is glamorous whereas being good defensively isn't...

I honestly think it's that simple.

da wood
09-02-2010, 09:44 AM
i gonna go as far as to say that this era of basketball the player play way more and better deffense than any era before hard fouls or not. and i will go as far as to say that asie from jordan himself and scottie there wasn't any players from jordans era that weren't post defenders that could deffend in this day and age.

Law25
09-02-2010, 09:50 AM
OK clearly you guys are all young because you are not watching the same game i watch today and used to watch back in the day. Everything is broken down into eras right. We had the Jordan era and the post Jordan era which will eventually belong to Kobe i'm thinking. not take jordans era that was the era of the big man and we had great post defenders now the perimeter d was garbage we had a few players back then who had good d but for who everyone was trying to gaurd jordans and drexlers and so on no they were boo boo. I mean they had like dumars and maxwell who were nice but at the end of the day they were only 6'4 thats why jordan perfected the fade away. Fast forward to the kobe era. This day we have guys that are 6'6, 6'7, 6'8, 6'9, and 6'10 that are athletic enough to stay infront of the perimeter player the league knew what they were doing. imagine if the defenders of today were able to hand check. we dont know. you know why. because as much as they were able to get away with as far as hand checking on offense you was able to hand check on deffense too. lets just say that the league deffender havent went anywhere mater of fact think who were the deffenders of jordans era and who are players known as deffenders in kobe/james era.

Agreed.

Mile High Champ
09-02-2010, 09:52 AM
For me its simple. It goes back to the palyers development in high school. The US game is all about flash, its about taking your defender 1 on 1. Most young US players only care about dunks, fade aways, Over dribbling (And1 generation) etc. What do players like to do in the off-season? Most kids jack up shots and dont work on the fundamentals of the game. Defensive fundamentals are skipped over in basketball practice because it is the flash and pure skill that gets peoples attention. Someone will always talk about the kid that dropped 30 in a game than the kid who scores 5-10 points a game but locks down the other teams best player night in and night out. Its a simple reality that defense is overlooked at both the high school and college level. Players are just not interested in playing defense because it is essentially hard work, effort and intensity, something our generation really does not value at all. It is sad to be honest.

Joshtd1
09-02-2010, 09:59 AM
For me its simple. It goes back to the palyers development in high school. The US game is all about flash, its about taking your defender 1 on 1. Most young US players only care about dunks, fade aways, Over dribbling (And1 generation) etc. What do players like to do in the off-season? Most kids jack up shots and dont work on the fundamentals of the game. Defensive fundamentals are skipped over in basketball practice because it is the flash and pure skill that gets peoples attention. Someone will always talk about the kid that dropped 30 in a game than the kid who scores 5-10 points a game but locks down the other teams best player night in and night out. Its a simple reality that defense is overlooked at both the high school and college level. Players are just not interested in playing defense because it is essentially hard work, effort and intensity, something our generation really does value at all. It is sad to be honest.

It is sad, because it takes just as much work, if not more to be a good offensive player. You have to practice moves, shooting, dribbling, all that stuff that is involved with becoming a good scorer. I really dont think you have to practice defense much..either you have it or you don't. As you said you have to work and shutting the other guy down, but to practice it..theres not really much you can do to practice defense, unless you watch tape of course.

Mile High Champ
09-02-2010, 10:09 AM
It is sad, because it takes just as much work, if not more to be a good offensive player. You have to practice moves, shooting, dribbling, all that stuff that is involved with becoming a good scorer. I really dont think you have to practice defense much..either you have it or you don't. As you said you have to work and shutting the other guy down, but to practice it..theres not really much you can do to practice defense, unless you watch tape of course.

But Defense for me is all about Pride. Players have to want to play defense, it can't be forced on them. I do think you have to practice defensive fundamentals though to be truly a good defender. In the case of a post defender, you have to practice fronting another post player to be good at it. Simply standing in front of him with you arms up is not good enough. If you are a peremeter player, you need to work on speed and agility training. Practice shuffling your feet and using the proper defensive postion. Plus another big part of defense is knowing where to be on the court at all times. Many players are terrible weakside defenders, they have no idea what to do when there is dribble penetration in their key. Even take into account the concept of taking a "charge", players simply don't want to put their bodies on the line to stop another player from scoring.

I maintain that our generation does not not value hard work and practice. Too many of us have been given everything and don't want to work for what we truly want. We believe we are entitled to it. I believe this is reflected in the NBA today.

Sportfan
09-02-2010, 10:14 AM
Coaching

Teams focusing on fast pace offenses, (Suns, Warriors, even Knicks) don't spend nearly enough time on defense. Larry Brown made the Bobcats the best defensive team in the league last year.

da wood
09-02-2010, 10:15 AM
its not hard to play deffense i'm not the most athletic guy at all but i play pretty good d not because i have good instict its because not everyone is kobe. people ave things that they are good at and ways they like to go. so i play the % thats all.

Law25
09-02-2010, 10:18 AM
For me its simple. It goes back to the palyers development in high school. The US game is all about flash, its about taking your defender 1 on 1. Most young US players only care about dunks, fade aways, Over dribbling (And1 generation) etc. What do players like to do in the off-season? Most kids jack up shots and dont work on the fundamentals of the game. Defensive fundamentals are skipped over in basketball practice because it is the flash and pure skill that gets peoples attention. Someone will always talk about the kid that dropped 30 in a game than the kid who scores 5-10 points a game but locks down the other teams best player night in and night out. Its a simple reality that defense is overlooked at both the high school and college level. Players are just not interested in playing defense because it is essentially hard work, effort and intensity, something our generation really does not value at all. It is sad to be honest.

I dont think US players are that bad at D at all. If you look at the 08 Olympics i would have to say ther pretty damn good compared to the rest of the world. Every game was an shut out except Spain and that was only in that game. Didnt the US blow them out before that game or was it the year before? Could be mistaken but i remember that hapening.

HakeemTheDream
09-02-2010, 10:18 AM
It's pretty obvious that Stern has changed the rules and changed the way refs call fouls in order to discourage defense (which is supposed to make things more exciting which I don't agree with because the game stops too frequently)

Mile High Champ
09-02-2010, 10:19 AM
its not hard to play deffense i'm not the most athletic guy at all but i play pretty good d not because i have good instict its because not everyone is kobe. people ave things that they are good at and ways they like to go. so i play the % thats all.

Defense is about hard work and pride.. I do think you need some athletic tools to be a good defender but it remains mostly about effort.

HakeemTheDream
09-02-2010, 10:21 AM
It's all about effort and lateral quickness imo. Down low it's strength and awareness (and it doesn't hurt if you can get up there for help defense)

Mile High Champ
09-02-2010, 10:25 AM
I dont think US players are that bad at D at all. If you look at the 08 Olympics i would have to say ther pretty damn good compared to the rest of the world. Every game was an shut out except Spain and that was only in that game. Didnt the US blow them out before that game or was it the year before? Could be mistaken but i remember that hapening.

They are average defenders. I dont see any great defenders to be honest on that team and most of the guys you can put in that "good group of defenders" are the older players. Defense is overlooked in both high school and college because their is no glamour in being a good defensive player. Just Because the US shuts down a team, it does not show they are good at defense. It could show and this is more likely that the other teams are sub par in terms of talent and it only makes sense that the US would yield few points to a worse team.

HakeemTheDream
09-02-2010, 10:25 AM
Did Odom never get the memo about boxing out?

HakeemTheDream
09-02-2010, 10:31 AM
Looking at the way USA is struggling to beat Tunisia (a team grateful to even qualify) I think they're going to need Durant to play 35+ minutes and drop 30+ vs Spain and Argentina. This B Team SUCKS

HakeemTheDream
09-02-2010, 10:35 AM
oops wrong thread

97NYer
09-02-2010, 10:43 AM
If people take time to pay attention there are still plenty of good defenders in the league...but the biggest reason is hand checking...That rule alone makes it much more difficult to say in front of people than be4 the the rule...Also flopping has become so much of being a good defender it sometimes takes away from it...

Like I said though they're still out there...guys like Sepolsha (sp?), Varajeo, Perk, Rondo, etc...When I played in college I prided myself on my D, so I def take notice of players who play D....

:facepalm:

Law25
09-02-2010, 10:52 AM
Looking at the way USA is struggling to beat Tunisia (a team grateful to even qualify) I think they're going to need Durant to play 35+ minutes and drop 30+ vs Spain and Argentina. This B Team SUCKS

Man you had me nervous there killing Tunisia by 24. I guess even Team B bad D is pretty good.

Law25
09-02-2010, 10:56 AM
:facepalm:

If he is talking about the dude from OKC then i dont get your :facepalm: I think that dude is emerging into an D stud

Super.
09-02-2010, 11:00 AM
I think it's a matter of not trying. When i really try to play defense on people I can lock them down, but many times i just don't put the effort into it

USMCLaker
09-02-2010, 02:53 PM
Honestly, I don't think it's about hard work many of these guys work hard; I think it is more about being in the limelight. Defense is hardly recognized in the media unless it's a spectacular block.

saintl2510
09-02-2010, 03:08 PM
If people take time to pay attention there are still plenty of good defenders in the league...but the biggest reason is hand checking...That rule alone makes it much more difficult to say in front of people than be4 the the rule...Also flopping has become so much of being a good defender it sometimes takes away from it...

Like I said though they're still out there...guys like Sepolsha (sp?), Varajeo, Perk, Rondo, etc...When I played in college I prided myself on my D, so I def take notice of players who play D....
true theres other guys like ron artest kobe matt barnes peuitrus shannon brown

saintl2510
09-02-2010, 03:11 PM
I think it's a matter of not trying. When i really try to play defense on people I can lock them down, but many times i just don't put the effort into it
true i agree with you is about trying if they can be that good offensivly why canīt they be good defenders

junion
09-02-2010, 03:12 PM
in general: offense is pretty, defense is ugly.

media glorifies offense, and mostly keeps defense hidden.

kids see this, and want to be the best scorers - it's rare to find a kid who wants to be the great defender.

at time goes on, this happens more and more.

DODGERS&LAKERS
09-02-2010, 05:23 PM
I never said there werent any good defenders. I was just asking why someone with the athleticism of Rudy Gay isnt a good defender, when he has the tools to be elite. Same with pretty much all the great scorers, their athleticism helps them out on offense, it should help them on defense.

I see your point about Rudy. I also think that being athletic is half the battle. I believe a good defender studies his opponent, finds his weaknesses, denies him from getting the ball where he is most effective, and finds a way to make that player shoot from spots where statistically his percentages are lower than anywhere else on the floor. A player who does his homework, is a better defender than someone who goes out there playing the passing lanes or gets a blocked shot.

DODGERS&LAKERS
09-02-2010, 05:31 PM
Because the pace of the game has slowed dramatically.

I'm not talking about average points per game. Because then, yes, tempo plays a large part. I'm talking about the average offensive rating for every team in the league. That way, it only takes into account how many points are scored per 100 possesions. According to those stats, the last decade and a half have had the best defensive leagues ever.

HakeemTheDream
09-02-2010, 11:32 PM
Jason Kidd is one of the best pg defenders of all time and he doesn't look like he tries that hard so I wouldn't say it's all about effort, I'd say it's more about smarts (predicting which way the player will go and having the correct defensive footwork)

MTLGW
09-03-2010, 02:57 AM
For me its simple. It goes back to the palyers development in high school. The US game is all about flash, its about taking your defender 1 on 1. Most young US players only care about dunks, fade aways, Over dribbling (And1 generation) etc. What do players like to do in the off-season? Most kids jack up shots and dont work on the fundamentals of the game. Defensive fundamentals are skipped over in basketball practice because it is the flash and pure skill that gets peoples attention. Someone will always talk about the kid that dropped 30 in a game than the kid who scores 5-10 points a game but locks down the other teams best player night in and night out. Its a simple reality that defense is overlooked at both the high school and college level. Players are just not interested in playing defense because it is essentially hard work, effort and intensity, something our generation really does not value at all. It is sad to be honest.


again someone blowing the generic smoke.....i heard it all, "young peeps these days the same old blah blah blah" again the emphasis on the hand checking rule......its not easy to play defense if u cant slap ur opponent around which they allowed back n the old days

MTLGW
09-03-2010, 03:16 AM
again i think u guys r underestimating the nba offensive talent....people r taller and more athletic now and plus the no hand checking rule does not help the defender whatsoever

it takes more than effort and hard work to play good defense nowadays it takes talent and i think majority of u guys oversee that.......and besides good defenders gets just as much credit nowadays than offensive players.......chicago bulls didnt give a huge contract to ben wallace for nothing.........and everybody was intimidated by ron ron when he was a great defender.....howard gets mad props too for his monster defensive performance

MTLGW
09-03-2010, 03:27 AM
again i think u guys r underestimating the nba offensive talent....people r taller and more athletic now and plus the no hand checking rule does not help the defender whatsoever

it takes more than effort and hard work to play good defense nowadays it takes talent and i think majority of u guys oversee that.......and besides good defenders gets just as much credit nowadays than offensive players.......chicago bulls didnt give a huge contract to ben wallace for nothing.........and everybody was intimidated by ron ron when he was a great defender.....howard gets mad props too for his monster defensive performance

Joshtd1
09-03-2010, 08:29 AM
IMO you would think the no hand checking rule would make better nba defenders. How good of a defender can you really be when your allowed to push and bump and body the defender the whole time they have the ball? With the no hand checking rule, it means you actually have to try and stay in front of your man, instead of being able to hold on.

imagesrdecievin
09-03-2010, 10:32 AM
hand checking (Jordan could have averaged 40 if handchecking weren't allowed) + offensive players are allowed to carry and travel and most importantly...


switch pivot feet. It is nearly impossible to stay in front of a player that is jab stepping with one foot and then suddenly switches their pivot and takes off. I laugh every time the refs call the bull***** pumpfake-travel but then let the jab step-pivot foot switch go.

JDMac80
09-03-2010, 11:09 AM
It's a me-first league. Dunks and scoring on iso plays will get you the shoe deals and thats what all of the players want, even though defense resulting in bad shots or forcing shot clock violations can build champions if done with consistency.