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dnewguy
08-31-2010, 09:56 AM
Do you think Rose is a max player, most Bulls fans say they won't trade him for Lebron, Wade or Kobe because of his age and potential.....is there something about him non-Bulls fans are missing?

Ollie Tabooger
08-31-2010, 09:59 AM
No

llemon
08-31-2010, 10:04 AM
This season will give us more of an indication whether he is or not

IndyRealist
08-31-2010, 10:05 AM
No, but he'll get paid like one.

fadedmario
08-31-2010, 10:06 AM
absolutely

Niro
08-31-2010, 10:06 AM
hell no...and whoever wouldnt trade rose for lebron or wade is just stupid ( i can understand kobe because of his age)

RCarlson85
08-31-2010, 10:06 AM
I don't think he is a max player at this point, but that's not to say he won't become one in the next few seasons. He will probably get a max contract though.

icon1914
08-31-2010, 10:06 AM
I watched Rose at Memphis and this kid is special. In the NCAA tournament the man dominated every pg he faced with the exception of Mario Chalmers ( still has a solid game though)... Rose is a max player... Chicago has a gem.... Not sure he is worth more than James or Wade, but he is a gem nevertheless....

king4day
08-31-2010, 10:10 AM
Not yet, but he will be.
Like Indy said above, he'll get paid like one regardless.

stawka
08-31-2010, 10:13 AM
NO! He's a good player, but Bulls homers overrate this guy and it's a real shame. He'll be a damn good player, but right now Bulls fans are going a little overboard

tcav701
08-31-2010, 10:14 AM
Combo guard that can score at will.

Don't think hes's a max player untill his distribution and defensive skills improve. But its irrelevant because he would get a max contract tommorow if he was a free agent because owners love shooting themselves in the foot.

Ragun
08-31-2010, 10:15 AM
he isn't one yet but he will be one obviously.

JDMac80
08-31-2010, 10:16 AM
now no, probably in a few years tho

LTBaByyy
08-31-2010, 10:17 AM
How old is he like 21??? He will get one when he turns around 24-26, but right now he has to get his 3 pt shot and playmaking skills up a bit, he hasnt even got in his prime yet so hes gonna be one hell of a player, already an all star

thescore53
08-31-2010, 10:19 AM
hell no...and whoever wouldnt trade rose for lebron or wade is just stupid ( i can understand kobe because of his age)

wade is 28

asandhu23
08-31-2010, 10:22 AM
If Monta Ellis ( who is a way better player than Rose ) couldn't get max contract under Chris Cohan, I doubt Rose ever will.

Antipod
08-31-2010, 10:22 AM
Not yet!

Pierzynski4Prez
08-31-2010, 10:24 AM
If Monta Ellis ( who is a way better player than Rose ) couldn't get max contract under Chris Cohan, I doubt Rose ever will.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

DaBUU
08-31-2010, 10:25 AM
If Monta Ellis ( who is a way better player than Rose ) couldn't get max contract under Chris Cohan, I doubt Rose ever will.

r u effen kidding?

macc
08-31-2010, 10:25 AM
How do you define Max player?

You have max players and you have franchise players. Franchise players being Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Howard...ect. To me if you're the best player on your team then you're most likely a max player. So yes Derrick Rose is a max player in today's NBA.

thescore53
08-31-2010, 10:25 AM
If Monta Ellis ( who is a way better player than Rose ) couldn't get max contract under Chris Cohan, I doubt Rose ever will.

i think ur kinda overating ellis only an idiot would give him a max

JDMac80
08-31-2010, 10:30 AM
If Monta Ellis ( who is a way better player than Rose ) couldn't get max contract under Chris Cohan, I doubt Rose ever will.

:rimshot:...oh wait, you were serious

thescore53
08-31-2010, 10:30 AM
OP is baiting with this crap. and hes a goof ball.

yea he;s obv on some haterade.

thescore53
08-31-2010, 10:32 AM
i dont think rose ask for the full max. so he can help out his team

remember rose is from chi. so he;s a bulls homer also :D

tcav701
08-31-2010, 10:34 AM
Please don't take this and turn it into another Rondo/Rose debate.....

Rondo just got a new contract (far from max) and regaurdless of which player is better, I can't see their contracts being much different right now.

Sandman
08-31-2010, 10:35 AM
At this point, probably not. But he's only on his 3/4th year on his rookie contract, he could well get there.

97NYer
08-31-2010, 10:44 AM
I wouldn't trade him for Kobe or Wade and I would certainly give him a max if he was a FA. I would trade him for Durant, LeBron or Dwight.

kingkenny01
08-31-2010, 10:51 AM
only pgs that deserve it are paul and williams

asandhu23
08-31-2010, 10:58 AM
i think ur kinda overating ellis only an idiot would give him a max


r u effen kidding?


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


:rimshot:...oh wait, you were serious

Do you guys ever get to see Warriors games wherever you reside? I am guessing you guys missed the whole "Oh crap Stack Jack just gave up on my team, my team's ******** owners just traded him away for crap, oh **** every one is dropping like flies, Coach doesn't give **** man, I must carry the team, wtf my ******** team owners are ****ing getting d-leaguers to fill the empty spots and even they are dropping... damn we are screwed this year...**** i should be in that all star game.... holy hell, curry is playing good at last. must help him out as much as i can to get that RoY but damn its too late"

PC
08-31-2010, 11:02 AM
I like Rose but he's not a max player yet

thescore53
08-31-2010, 11:03 AM
Do you guys ever get to see Warriors games wherever you reside? I am guessing you guys missed the whole "Oh crap Stack Jack just gave up on my team, my team's ******** owners just traded him away for crap, oh **** every one is dropping like flies, Coach doesn't give **** man, I must carry the team, wtf my ******** team owners are ****ing getting d-leaguers to fill the empty spots and even they are dropping... damn we are screwed this year...**** i should be in that all star game.... holy hell, curry is playing good at last. must help him out as much as i can to get that RoY but damn its too late"

come on man. ive seen enough to know ellis is a ball hog. and if anyone other than war fans should know how good the warriors are it should be me. every single player on the warriors has to have their best game against us.

asandhu23
08-31-2010, 11:11 AM
come on man. ive seen enough to know ellis is a ball hog. and if anyone other than war fans should know how good the warriors are it should be me. every single player on the warriors has to have their best game against us.

DUDE, Ellis had to be a ballhog last year. outside of Morrow, we had no real scorers. Plus Nellie told him to be a ball hog. Even with that he averaged 5.3 apg. We had a team loaded with D - Leaguers with ****ing Mikki Moore and Vlad Radmanovich in the front court

asandhu23
08-31-2010, 11:14 AM
Plus I mentioned Chris Cohan in there because he had a ****** habit of overpaying players while being cheapest owner in the NBA history at the same time

TheTakeOver24
08-31-2010, 11:15 AM
If Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay are max players... then Rose is one as well... does he deserve it? Not yet IMO.

asandhu23
08-31-2010, 11:17 AM
If Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay are max players... then Rose is one as well... does he deserve it? Not yet IMO.

those were some wierd max contracts...

stejay
08-31-2010, 11:24 AM
In say yes. I think he has the potential to be the best PG in the NBA

pacofunk64
08-31-2010, 11:26 AM
I said yes being that he will be one once he is up for renewal. To say he is better than LBJ, Kobe, or Wade is ludicris but the sky is the limit for this kid.

Ezekial
08-31-2010, 11:28 AM
The thing you guys don't understand is Derrick Rose is never going to play for another team other than the Bulls.

HE HAS SAID BEFORE HE WAS EVEN DRAFTED, that he wanted to be a career Bull. Hometown boy that won't turn his back on his city. Hometown boy that would never have an hour long program designed to get attention.

He may not be the smartest person, but he can ball, and he is a very humble person.
So would the Bulls trade Rose for Lebron or Wade, NO. If they were to would it be good for the team, probably.

The Bulls are D-Rose's team. Miami is Dwayne Wade's house..... The UC is D-Rose's house.

Sorry that this 21 year old isn't as good as 2 of the top 3 players in the league by his 3rd year. Guess you all just like to hate.
And about overrating Derrick Rose, there's a difference between saying that D-Rose is a top 3 player in the league, and saying that D-Rose is a top teir PG in this league, which he is(already).

Avenged
08-31-2010, 11:32 AM
He's the Bulls franchise player at this point, and although he isn't one right now, he will become a well deserved max player soon.

The thing is, he would still get paid like one regardless if he deserves it or not because of how high the Bulls are of him, and if someone else were deeply interested in him, you got to assume they'd throw in the max to acquire him as well.

4getboutit4
08-31-2010, 11:35 AM
um derrick rose averages 23pts 5 rebound and 7 assists in 2 years in the PLAYOFFS.. hes just learning now how to shooot the ball and he averaged 23 points on pure talent.. every1 needs to chill out the kid JUST turned 21. he deserves to be a max player wether ne1 likes to think it or not.. be realistic and open your eyes. and the person that monta ellis is better then derrick rose..... WOW u should probably start watching a new sport because obviously u r blind. this is coming from a lakers fan... were the best team in the leauge we won back 2 back championships and i can acknowledge that d rose is an amazing player. cant expect much from a miami fan bc they think they won the title already... if ne1 deserves the title already its the lakers cuz they have proven to b the best team in the leauge the last 2 years. the heat havent even played 1 game together..... yep crown them now... morons.

Vincent
08-31-2010, 11:37 AM
This is a weird question

First, the market decides who gets a Max Contract.

From a general evaluation of the current PG landscape, there are a lot of promising young point guards in the league right now that probably wouldn't demand the max if given Free Agency.

D Rose is restricted, so any offer to pry him away from the Bulls during Free Agency would probably be at the max.

But say he was a unrestricted Free Agent, the market would be the determinate on whether he'd get a MAX contract.

Second, from a talent perspective, lessor players have gotten the Max contract. So it's really a weird point to argue. Is he worth the MAX? That's really determinate on how well you construct a team around him. If you don't get players that compliment him or a coach to utilize him, losses will stack up and he won't be "worth it."

D Rose is a top notch scorer for his position, and he has a rare ability to at times score at will. He's not a high assist man, and might not ever become a "pure point" like a Rondo or a Kidd. But his effect on the game is undeniable. Judging from the last two seasons, the Bulls will only go as far as he takes them. Not really a homer perspective, just the truth.

Just to be noted, having the term "All-Star" attached to your name doesn't make you a max-level player either. Nor does it prove that you're the best at your position in your respective conferences.

TheTakeOver24
08-31-2010, 11:38 AM
The thing you guys don't understand is Derrick Rose is never going to play for another team other than the Bulls.

HE HAS SAID BEFORE HE WAS EVEN DRAFTED, that he wanted to be a career Bull. Hometown boy that won't turn his back on his city. Hometown boy that would never have an hour long program designed to get attention.

He may not be the smartest person, but he can ball, and he is a very humble person.
So would the Bulls trade Rose for Lebron or Wade, NO. If they were to would it be good for the team, probably.

The Bulls are D-Rose's team. Miami is Dwayne Wade's house..... The UC is D-Rose's house.

Sorry that this 21 year old isn't as good as 2 of the top 3 players in the league by his 3rd year. Guess you all just like to hate.
And about overrating Derrick Rose, there's a difference between saying that D-Rose is a top 3 player in the league, and saying that D-Rose is a top teir PG in this league, which he is(already).

A Bulls fan sayin its Wade's House... that just made my day!
But yea I agree with you... he is/has the potential to be a franchise player.

Ezekial
08-31-2010, 11:42 AM
A Bulls fan sayin its Wade's House... that just made my day!
But yea I agree with you... he is/has the potential to be a franchise player.

Is it not Dwayne Wade's house?

pebloemer
08-31-2010, 11:48 AM
I always hate the term "max player."

Max contract is defined by a percentage of the cap. With teams able to exceed the cap by following CBA rules, a "max player" means different things for different teams.

A team with a 70-80 million dollar budget has a much easier time overpaying for talent than a team with a 60 million dollar budget.

Since a maximum contract is relative to the business side of basketball, it needs to be taken in the context of the business situation of the franchise.

Comparing what should be paid to certain players is completely arbitrary. The only league wide standard that can be applied is market value. So yes, Derrick Rose is a "max player." Because someone will pay him it, so his market value dictates it to be so.

jp611
08-31-2010, 11:49 AM
the guy who said monta ellis is better then derrick rose by far just made me about pee my pants

TheTakeOver24
08-31-2010, 11:49 AM
Is it not Dwayne Wade's house?

No doubt its Wade's house.... I just find it ironic and funny that Bulls fans would say that because he said that after defeating the Bulls. I just thought Bulls fans would be a little more stubborn in defeat.

camador22
08-31-2010, 11:51 AM
There isn't any doubt he will get the max deal. He's a special player who has unlimited potential but he's overrated by Bulls fans which is understandable. Bottom line is he's an all star and not a superstar yet and i mean yet. I'd still take Rondo any day of the week over Rose. To me a superstar is a player that has proven he could be a star in a championship contending team and is still a threat. Bosh may be the only exception to that rule because he plays as good as anyone in his position. Rose could prove that this year with the addition of Boozer. I think the real question is what will Noah get? The Bulls owner is known to be a cheap ***.

mikantsass
08-31-2010, 11:52 AM
Derrick Rose is no way in hell worth a Max contract right now. In 2-3 years, it may be a different story. Not today. Not entering his third year in the NBA.

Vincent
08-31-2010, 11:52 AM
I said yes being that he will be one once he is up for renewal. To say he is better than LBJ, Kobe, or Wade is ludicris but the sky is the limit for this kid.

Yeah, cooler heads in the Bulls forum would like to apologize for the LBJ, Kobe, or Wade (KD, CP3, and D Will as well) comparisions.

But like LeBron was in Ohio, D Rose is here. (maybe even more since he's from the city of Chicago).

With all the gang violence and meaning less shootings happening in Chicago, it's nice to see a kid rise up from one of the roughest neighborhoods in the city and be so levelheaded and humble. He's got one of the best personalities in the NBA and represents Chicago so well. I've said multiple times, I wouldn't trade this kid for anyone.

He's a perfect fit in Chicago. No one wants him ever to leave. And he'll never be appreciated as much as he is in Chicago.

D-Will4Prez
08-31-2010, 11:57 AM
He's the 4th best PG in the NBA, so no, he's not worth max yet but in a year or 2 he will be much closer. He is a beast.

tkshy
08-31-2010, 12:01 PM
He might be one day. Right there are 3-5 max guys. That's not to say more won't get max deals, but you really you have Kobe(last max deal), Lebron, Wade, maybe Howard, soon Durant, and that's about it.

TO to the CHI
08-31-2010, 12:01 PM
hell no...and whoever wouldnt trade rose for lebron or wade is just stupid ( i can understand kobe because of his age)

I don't think he is a max player yet, but I think he will get there.

I can understand not trading him for Kobe or Wade though, based on age and injury concerns respectively. That said, I would trade Rose for LBJ in a heartbeat if given the opportunity.

GoatMilk
08-31-2010, 12:07 PM
yes he's worth it
this season he's going to EXPLODE

he'll get the max too

marlinsfan24
08-31-2010, 12:08 PM
I don't think he is a max player yet, but I think he will get there.

I can understand not trading him for Kobe or Wade though, based on age and injury concerns respectively. That said, I would trade Rose for LBJ in a heartbeat if given the opportunity.

If I were a GM, I'd only trade Rose for Wade or Kobe if I were really close to winning a championship. Lebron or Durant for Rose however would be a no-brainer.

Vincent
08-31-2010, 12:12 PM
There isn't any doubt he will get the max deal. He's a special player who has unlimited potential but he's overrated by Bulls fans which is understandable. Bottom line is he's an all star and not a superstar yet and i mean yet. I'd still take Rondo any day of the week over Rose. To me a superstar is a player that has proven he could be a star in a championship contending team and is still a threat. Bosh may be the only exception to that rule because he plays as good as anyone in his position. Rose could prove that this year with the addition of Boozer. I think the real question is what will Noah get? The Bulls owner is known to be a cheap ***.

That is a completely wrong misconception of Jerry Reinsdorf.

Look at the players that he has completely overpaid in the last couple of years.

Ron Mercer, Eddie Robinson, Kirk Hinrich, Andres Nocioni, Ben Wallace, Luol Deng.

They even gave the largest per year contract in NBA history (30 million per year for MJ).

They even gave Scottie Pippen a 2 year -5-6 million dollar per year deal when he was basically a bench filler at the end of his career, just out of loyalty.

Jerry still even pays Bob Love's medical bills.

And don't get me started on all the spending he does on the White Sox.

VinceCarter
08-31-2010, 12:14 PM
Do you think Rose is a max player, most Bulls fans say they won't trade him for Lebron, Wade or Kobe because of his age and potential.....is there something about him non-Bulls fans are missing?

That makes you sound like a Bulls homer.....

Basketash
08-31-2010, 12:18 PM
Not now but he probably will be

DaBUU
08-31-2010, 12:19 PM
It would be nice if he didn't want the max when he's due to re-sign, so we can spread it around. doubt thats happening tho.

Khalifa21
08-31-2010, 12:22 PM
As of now, No. Not a max guy.

Maybe if he can lead his team out of the first round and further in the playoffs.

As it stands the guy is worth $11-12m per in my eyes.

dnewguy
08-31-2010, 12:28 PM
If Rose was 3 or 4 inches taller, I have a feeling that people will judge him differently.

Flaccofan23
08-31-2010, 12:32 PM
how is a guy that can score at will overrated? i go to every bulls game and if these dumbasses actually watched him as much as i did, theyd no he is not overrated, i wouldnt trade him for lebron cuz lebron is a bonafide choke artist loser

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 12:37 PM
He absolutely is a max player, anyone who says otherwise does not understand league economics as they currently stand.

Keep in mind, when Rose's gets his max deal, he'll be a 4 year vet so his maximum is significantly less that say Kobe's or Lebron's maximum.

Rudy Gay got the max, you really think Rose won't?

zambo4president
08-31-2010, 12:40 PM
When his contracts up he will be.

nightBULL
08-31-2010, 12:41 PM
Yeah, cooler heads in the Bulls forum would like to apologize for the LBJ, Kobe, or Wade (KD, CP3, and D Will as well) comparisions.

Definitely!

I'm a Bulls fan and I love Derrick Rose, but if we could trade him for Lebron or Durant or even Wade, I'd be willing to do so. Rose shows a lot of potential but to say he's on the same level as Lebron is down right irresponsible and stupid.

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 12:41 PM
He might be one day. Right there are 3-5 max guys. That's not to say more won't get max deals, but you really you have Kobe(last max deal), Lebron, Wade, maybe Howard, soon Durant, and that's about it.

Amare, Joe Johnson, and Rudy Gay all just signed max contracts.

Kevin Durant took slightly below the max to allow OKC some flexibility.

Lebron, Wade, and Bosh would have all gotten max deals if they went to separate teams.


That's seven players just from this off-season.

Mr Moody
08-31-2010, 12:48 PM
lol if people dont think he is a max player. You are worth what people will pay you. Ex: Rudy Gay, JJ.

IrespectNumber3
08-31-2010, 12:48 PM
Can he get the Max yea its just a contract anyone can get the max pretty much its supply and demand.

Is he worth the max, No, not yet anyway. But he is definetly worth the max to at least the Bulls. The Bulls wouldn't let him walk if he said he wanted the max

Ezekial
08-31-2010, 01:03 PM
No doubt its Wade's house.... I just find it ironic and funny that Bulls fans would say that because he said that after defeating the Bulls. I just thought Bulls fans would be a little more stubborn in defeat.

.......... I could care less who he beat to call it his house.

He's an amazing player and deserves that reference, especially since he has shown so much loyalty to the Heat(he may have "flirted" with other teams, but loyal nonetheless).

Ezekial
08-31-2010, 01:04 PM
Can he get the Max yea its just a contract anyone can get the max pretty much its supply and demand.

Is he worth the max, No, not yet anyway. But he is definetly worth the max to at least the Bulls. The Bulls wouldn't let him walk if he said he wanted the max

He's never going anywhere.

nuggetsyankees
08-31-2010, 01:19 PM
yes just because he has superstar potential

Super.
08-31-2010, 01:22 PM
No. But he'll get paid like one.

JordansBulls
08-31-2010, 01:24 PM
Do you think Rose is a max player, most Bulls fans say they won't trade him for Lebron, Wade or Kobe because of his age and potential.....is there something about him non-Bulls fans are missing?

This will be his 3rd year in the league. So right now, no he is not. No more than 12-13 million a year at this point.

Kashmir13579
08-31-2010, 01:28 PM
was stephon marbury worth the max? jk. not really.

mikealike305
08-31-2010, 01:31 PM
no but when his contract is up he might get one

Stunner
08-31-2010, 01:37 PM
If Rose was 3 or 4 inches taller, I have a feeling that people will judge him differently.

lmao then he would be Lebron lmao jp

Hawkeye15
08-31-2010, 01:47 PM
If Monta Ellis ( who is a way better player than Rose ) couldn't get max contract under Chris Cohan, I doubt Rose ever will.

well, Monta would be good next to Rose. But in no way, shape, or form is Monta Ellis currently near Rose. Not even close. I think I have covered Ellis enough at this point. He has been horrible for the last two seasons since his protection blanket in Davis left

Hawkeye15
08-31-2010, 01:52 PM
to answer this thread, yes, of course Rose will get the max. You have to look at his market value, play to date, and future potential. He fits the mold of that player on the border, talent wise, of getting a max deal. But with the economics of the current NBA, if players such as Joe Johnson and Amare Stoudemire are getting max deal, Rose will get one for sure. And I personally don't see anything wrong with it. He is a top 6 PG at this point probably, and will only get better. I think this season, Rose needs to show improvement, to justify it, but I would expect nothing less

REALLYYYYY?
08-31-2010, 01:53 PM
No, but he'll get paid like one.

exactly... which makes him a max player... lol.

i would not have thought of joe johnson as a max player but he got a max deal...so he is a max player...

Reyes6
08-31-2010, 01:54 PM
Well seeing as it doesn't say does he deserve a max contract and rather says is he a max player... definitely. He's the Bulls franchise player... but I don't think Rondo deserves the max and he's proven to be equal to or better than Rose.

KH12
08-31-2010, 01:56 PM
He is absolutely a max contract player. Anyone who says otherwise has either never seen him play more than a handful of games, or are blinded by their Bulls/Rose hate from the few number of people who come into the NBA forum and say stupid things constantly to give the real Bulls fans (who mostly stay in our forum) a bad name.

REALLYYYYY?
08-31-2010, 02:09 PM
Definitely!

I'm a Bulls fan and I love Derrick Rose, but if we could trade him for Lebron or Durant or even Wade, I'd be willing to do so. Rose shows a lot of potential but to say he's on the same level as Lebron is down right irresponsible and stupid.

i definitely would not want to trade him for wade, mostly due to age and possibly injury proneness.

pebloemer
08-31-2010, 02:28 PM
exactly... which makes him a max player... lol.

i would not have thought of joe johnson as a max player but he got a max deal...so he is a max player...

Absolutely.

I can't understand this theoretical, mystery understanding of the term "max player." Is it not defined by a player who recieves a max contract?

Because the answer to this question is really simple to me. Yes he will get a max contract.

Evolution23
08-31-2010, 02:31 PM
He can't shoot 3's and D is is suspect. So no

Ezekial
08-31-2010, 02:37 PM
He can't shoot 3's and D is is suspect. So no

I don't think Amare was worth a Max.

What about Stephon Marbury?

C'mon man.

awmathewsjr
08-31-2010, 02:37 PM
Do you think Rose is a max player, most Bulls fans say they won't trade him for Lebron, Wade or Kobe because of his age and potential.....is there something about him non-Bulls fans are missing?

This kid is a max player and anyone who can't see that is a straight up hater. He's 21yrs old, averaged 21 & 6 this season and led his team to the playoffs.

CP3's 2nd yr--D.Will's 2nd yr--Nash's 2nd yr--Rondo's 2nd yr--Rose's 2nd yr
17 & 9--------16 & 9---------9 & 3----------11 & 5----------21 & 6-----

If this kid hasn't shown max player potential in his 2nd year then no other PG currently playing has either.

Ezekial
08-31-2010, 02:44 PM
This kid is a max player and anyone who can't see that is a straight up hater. He's 21yrs old, averaged 21 & 6 this season and led his team to the playoffs.

CP3's 2nd yr--D.Will's 2nd yr--Nash's 2nd yr--Rondo's 2nd yr--Rose's 2nd yr
17 & 9--------16 & 9---------9 & 3----------11 & 5----------21 & 6-----

If this kid hasn't shown max player potential in his 2nd year then no other PG currently playing has either.

Thank you.

People think that Bulls fans overhype him, but honestly his ceiling is just so high.
Just hate because he isn't the top PG in the league, yet...... YET.

lavilevi23
08-31-2010, 02:45 PM
No.

lavilevi23
08-31-2010, 02:47 PM
This kid is a max player and anyone who can't see that is a straight up hater. He's 21yrs old, averaged 21 & 6 this season and led his team to the playoffs.

CP3's 2nd yr--D.Will's 2nd yr--Nash's 2nd yr--Rondo's 2nd yr--Rose's 2nd yr
17 & 9--------16 & 9---------9 & 3----------11 & 5----------21 & 6-----

If this kid hasn't shown max player potential in his 2nd year then no other PG currently playing has either.

Yea but all of those don't get the max either..

daleja424
08-31-2010, 02:49 PM
he will get max money, but he is not a max player. to clarify though, there are only a handful of true max guys in the nba... wade, lebron, kobe, paul, howard, yao, deron, dirk, and duncan come to mind.

llemon
08-31-2010, 02:53 PM
he will get max money, but he is not a max player. to clarify though, there are only a handful of true max guys in the nba... wade, lebron, kobe, paul, howard, yao, deron, dirk, and duncan come to mind.

Yao and Duncan? Don't agree.

And Dirk is right on the edge.

awmathewsjr
08-31-2010, 02:55 PM
Yea but all of those don't get the max either..

Those are the best pgs that the nba has. They have either already recieved a max ext/contract or they are a lock to get one. Don't try to find a loop hole in my argument because you can't counter it.

cowboyz180
08-31-2010, 02:56 PM
yes

pebloemer
08-31-2010, 02:58 PM
he will get max money, but he is not a max player. to clarify though, there are only a handful of true max guys in the nba... wade, lebron, kobe, paul, howard, yao, deron, dirk, and duncan come to mind.

How about Joe Johnson, Rudy Gay, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Pau Gasol, Carmelo Anthony? They all are making max value money too.

What separates them as "true max guys?"

awmathewsjr
08-31-2010, 03:00 PM
Yao and Duncan? Don't agree.

And Dirk is right on the edge.

1. A healthy Yao is the best offensive center in the league.

2. Duncan is arguably the best PF of all time(yeah I said of all time).

3. Dirk is a former MVP of the league. I think that would make you a true max player.

JordansBulls
08-31-2010, 03:02 PM
He can't shoot 3's and D is is suspect. So no

So Charles Barkley wasn't a max?

justinnum1
08-31-2010, 03:02 PM
Of course not

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 03:03 PM
Yea but all of those don't get the max either..

Deron and CP3 both got max money


he will get max money, but he is not a max player. to clarify though, there are only a handful of true max guys in the nba... wade, lebron, kobe, paul, howard, yao, deron, dirk, and duncan come to mind.

There are plenty of max deserving players in the NBA. In fact, a max contract for many teams is an absolute bargain. Now, someone like Amare or Joe Johnson, that's a different story because both are nearing the end of their primes and their performances now aren't even spectacular. But these up and comers, they will just be entering their primes and their maximum contract is of lesser value than veterans like Amare or JJ.

I'll take Marc Gasol for 5yrs/$85m over Amare at 6yrs/$120

Kyben36
08-31-2010, 03:05 PM
next year for sure, but he still needs to improve to be a total max

llemon
08-31-2010, 03:07 PM
1. A healthy Yao is the best offensive center in the league.

2. Duncan is arguably the best PF of all time(yeah I said of all time).

3. Dirk is a former MVP of the league. I think that would make you a true max player.

1) Would you sign Yao RIGHT NOW to a max contract? I wouldn't

2) So you get a max contract for being the best PF in the game 4 years ago?

3) Allen Iverson is also a former MVP. Should he get a max contract?

bluefire7002
08-31-2010, 03:09 PM
wade is 28

miami fan ;)

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 03:11 PM
1) Would you sign Yao RIGHT NOW to a max contract? I wouldn't

2) So you get a max contract for being the best PF in the game 4 years ago?

3) Allen Iverson is also a former MVP. Should he get a max contract?

Duncan and Dirk both played at or above Max Money value last season.

Yao, well it depends how you look at it. Any amount of money you pay him will be returned because of the huge global audience he draws. When he is healthy, he's certainly worth the money.

awmathewsjr
08-31-2010, 03:12 PM
he will get max money, but he is not a max player. to clarify though, there are only a handful of true max guys in the nba... wade, lebron, kobe, paul, howard, yao, deron, dirk, and duncan come to mind.

It's not fair to compare him with someone that doesn't play PG, so I will focus on Deron Williams. Don't get it twisted, D Will is my fav PG in the league but what did he do in his first two years that D. Rose hasn't, let's see:

D Will went to the playoffs his first two years, so did D Rose

D Will was on team USA in his 2nd offseason, So was D Rose

D Will didnt make the All Star team in his first 2 yrs, But D Rose did

D Will didn't win Rookie of the Year, But D Rose did

D Will averaged more assist, D Rose averaged more points

So what make him a true max and D Rose not one? (going off the first two years)

mjqusoldier
08-31-2010, 03:12 PM
not yet but he will be so he should get a max if he was a FA

Baller1
08-31-2010, 03:14 PM
Not yet.

KG2TB
08-31-2010, 03:14 PM
Besides Kobe and LeBron, I think Derrick Rose is the most hated on, baited player on PSD. The kid is 21 and is improving every year. The sky is the limit for him. Just let him play and continue to evolve. His work ethic, mixed with his talent is an extremely rare thing in the NBA. Not to mention how humble he is and how much he knows he still has a lot to work on. The season didn't even start yet and we're talking about Derrick being a max player? Just stop. Really.

awmathewsjr
08-31-2010, 03:19 PM
1) Would you sign Yao RIGHT NOW to a max contract? I wouldn't

2) So you get a max contract for being the best PF in the game 4 years ago?

3) Allen Iverson is also a former MVP. Should he get a max contract?

1. Absolutely, Houston Rockets has the biggest International fanbase in the league because of Yao, healthy or hurt $$$$$.

2. Of course he wouldn't get the max now in the twilight of his career smart azz, but his body of work has proven that he is a true max player. Hell I wouldn't give MJ the max right now, so I guess that means he isn't a true max either.::facepalm::

3. Same answer as number 2

haggis
08-31-2010, 03:32 PM
Besides Kobe and LeBron, I think Derrick Rose is the most hated on, baited player on PSD. The kid is 21 and is improving every year. The sky is the limit for him. Just let him play and continue to evolve. His work ethic, mixed with his talent is an extremely rare thing in the NBA. Not to mention how humble he is and how much he knows he still has a lot to work on. The season didn't even start yet and we're talking about Derrick being a max player? Just stop. Really.

^ this x1000000000000000000

It's really getting old. Derrick is a fantastic talent, and yes he will get the max eventually.

dnewguy
08-31-2010, 03:43 PM
Besides Kobe and LeBron, I think Derrick Rose is the most hated on, baited player on PSD. The kid is 21 and is improving every year. The sky is the limit for him. Just let him play and continue to evolve. His work ethic, mixed with his talent is an extremely rare thing in the NBA. Not to mention how humble he is and how much he knows he still has a lot to work on. The season didn't even start yet and we're talking about Derrick being a max player? Just stop. Really.

Please don't put Rose in the same sentence with
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Kobe and Lebron.

ALL_i-Do_is-Win
08-31-2010, 03:44 PM
This kid is a max player and anyone who can't see that is a straight up hater. He's 21yrs old, averaged 21 & 6 this season and led his team to the playoffs.

CP3's 2nd yr--D.Will's 2nd yr--Nash's 2nd yr--Rondo's 2nd yr--Rose's 2nd yr
17 & 9--------16 & 9---------9 & 3----------11 & 5----------21 & 6-----

If this kid hasn't shown max player potential in his 2nd year then no other PG currently playing has either.

just let the stats do the talking...
this is his 3rd year :rolleyes:
btw who ever says rose can't avg 10 ast per game is just dumb...
if rondo went from 5 to 10 then rose can do it (he also doesn't have 3 hall famers to boost his stats)
nash was a late bloomer but when you saw him play early years who knew he would be one of the best passers game has ever seen?
he didn't even avg 10 ast+ even when he played with dirk

KG2TB
08-31-2010, 03:46 PM
Please don't put Rose in the same sentence as













Kobe and Lebron.

You obviously didn't get what I was trying to say. It's unfortunate.

pistonsfanomg
08-31-2010, 03:46 PM
lol No he's not

beasted86
08-31-2010, 03:47 PM
To keep him, they will have to pay him the max... so yes, he's a max player.

beasted86
08-31-2010, 03:49 PM
You obviously didn't get what I was trying to say. It's unfortunate.

No, I agreed whole heartedly. This is how it goes:

1. Kobe Haters
2. LeBron Haters

















3. Who ever is ranked #3.

dtmagnet
08-31-2010, 03:58 PM
If he can become a better playmaker this season then yes. One of his biggest knocks has been lack of playmaking ability but the excuse was always that he had no good players to pass to, now that he has some talented teammates we will see if he gets any better at it.

llemon
08-31-2010, 04:01 PM
Duncan and Dirk both played at or above Max Money value last season.

Yao, well it depends how you look at it. Any amount of money you pay him will be returned because of the huge global audience he draws. When he is healthy, he's certainly worth the money.

Dirk just signed a new contract, and signed for less than the max.

Duncan, if a FA now, would not be considered a max player.

Age is the concern with both of them.

Yao knew enough not to opt out of his contract because he knew no team was goig to risk big money on him coming off a severe injury.

justinnum1
08-31-2010, 04:05 PM
It's not fair to compare him with someone that doesn't play PG, so I will focus on Deron Williams. Don't get it twisted, D Will is my fav PG in the league but what did he do in his first two years that D. Rose hasn't, let's see:

D Will went to the playoffs his first two years, so did D Rose

D Will was on team USA in his 2nd offseason, So was D Rose

D Will didnt make the All Star team in his first 2 yrs, But D Rose did

D Will didn't win Rookie of the Year, But D Rose did

D Will averaged more assist, D Rose averaged more points

So what make him a true max and D Rose not one? (going off the first two years)
:facepalm: Rose was filling in for an injured player and did not deserve to be there

asandhu23
08-31-2010, 04:08 PM
It's not fair to compare him with someone that doesn't play PG, so I will focus on Deron Williams. Don't get it twisted, D Will is my fav PG in the league but what did he do in his first two years that D. Rose hasn't, let's see:

D Will went to the playoffs his first two years, so did D Rose

D Will was on team USA in his 2nd offseason, So was D Rose

D Will didnt make the All Star team in his first 2 yrs, But D Rose did

D Will didn't win Rookie of the Year, But D Rose did

D Will averaged more assist, D Rose averaged more points

So what make him a true max and D Rose not one? (going off the first two years)



***** please. Rose is in Eastern Conference. Everything is loaded here. he wouldn't even sniff the all star game on this side

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 04:08 PM
Probably not.

dnewguy
08-31-2010, 04:09 PM
If he can become a better playmaker this season then yes. One of his biggest knocks has been lack of playmaking ability but the excuse was always that he had no good players to pass to, now that he has some talented teammates we will see if he gets any better at it.

I don't think he is a play maker, he's a scorer compared to Deron Williams. But like you said, lets see how he performs around a good shooter like Korver and one of the best pick and roll bigs, Boozer. From what i've seen so far in Team USA, he does not seem like he's willing to move the ball around.

Hustlenomics
08-31-2010, 04:09 PM
yea give max money to someone who can't make it past the first round :laugh2:

beasted86
08-31-2010, 04:11 PM
yea give max money to someone who can't make it past the first round :laugh2:

How about Rudy Gay who has never even made it to the playoffs?

Even Granger doesn't make the max. Some GMs are just stupid. :shrug:

nightBULL
08-31-2010, 04:12 PM
If he can become a better playmaker this season then yes. One of his biggest knocks has been lack of playmaking ability but the excuse was always that he had no good players to pass to, now that he has some talented teammates we will see if he gets any better at it.

Lol, did you even watch the bulls play last season??? Del Negro ran 3 plays all season. Everything we did on offense relied on Derrick creating. Not having anyone on offense wasn't an excuse, it was reality. Hinrich was playing the 2 and missing every possible shot, Deng was (inconsistent on offense), Taj and Noah aren't offensive threats at all.

greek miami hea
08-31-2010, 04:13 PM
def not,he is far from being a max plauyer (2 years at least)

Kashmir13579
08-31-2010, 04:14 PM
Lol, did you even watch the bulls play last season??? Del Negro ran 3 plays all season. Everything we did on offense relied on Derrick creating. Not having anyone on offense wasn't an excuse, it was reality. Hinrich was playing the 2 and missing every possible shot, Deng was (inconsistent on offense), Taj and Noah aren't offensive threats at all.

yet you all voted for him in the SF rankings. can't have your cake and eat it too

beasted86
08-31-2010, 04:17 PM
Lol, did you even watch the bulls play last season??? Del Negro ran 3 plays all season. Everything we did on offense relied on Derrick creating. Not having anyone on offense wasn't an excuse, it was reality. Hinrich was playing the 2 and missing every possible shot, Deng was (inconsistent on offense), Taj and Noah aren't offensive threats at all.

Surprise news to me.

Many Bulls fans have talked about how Deng is a top 5 SF and is a good scorer, and Noah is a top 5 Center... and Taj Gibson is way better than Michael Beasley... and with Boozer alone they have a better team than Miami. :facepalm:

Anyway, hearing level headedness in this comment above... I agree. Rose will put a staple on how good he is by how much the team has success. How far the Bulls go basically says whether Rose is better than Deron, because he has a lot of the same weapons.

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 04:18 PM
How about Rudy Gay who has never even made it to the playoffs?

Even Granger doesn't make the max. Some GMs are just stupid. :shrug:

Rudy Gay didn't get the max....

kjoke
08-31-2010, 04:18 PM
nah

nightBULL
08-31-2010, 04:19 PM
Besides Kobe and LeBron, I think Derrick Rose is the most hated on, baited player on PSD. The kid is 21 and is improving every year. The sky is the limit for him. Just let him play and continue to evolve. His work ethic, mixed with his talent is an extremely rare thing in the NBA. Not to mention how humble he is and how much he knows he still has a lot to work on. The season didn't even start yet and we're talking about Derrick being a max player? Just stop. Really.

That's only because people on the Bulls forum get carried away when they talk about Rose. He's good but he isn't Lebron. He isn't Kobe. He isn't Jordan.

He has a lot of potential, but he isn't that caliber of player YET.

mp3
08-31-2010, 04:19 PM
kobe lebron wade durant should be the only max guys, everyone else is over paid

KG2TB
08-31-2010, 04:23 PM
That's only because people on the Bulls forum get carried away when they talk about Rose. He's good but he isn't Lebron. He isn't Kobe. He isn't Jordan.

He has a lot of potential, but he isn't that caliber of player YET.

Hating on a talented kid with sky high potential because of some fans who overrate him too soon is as ignorant as the fans who overrate him. Bulls fans are just excited because we watch all the games and have seen him grow and know that few PGs have been this good, this quick. It's hard not to get excited about it. But at the same time, hating on him is just stupid. He's gonna make a lot of people look very silly on here in a couple years.

nanablvd
08-31-2010, 04:24 PM
he will be worth one when his current contract expires.

nightBULL
08-31-2010, 04:25 PM
Surprise news to me.

Many Bulls fans have talked about how Deng is a top 5 SF and is a good scorer, and Noah is a top 5 Center... and Taj Gibson is way better than Michael Beasley... and with Boozer alone they have a better team than Miami. :facepalm:

Anyway, hearing level headedness in this comment above... I agree. Rose will put a staple on how good he is by how much the team has success. How far the Bulls go basically says whether Rose is better than Deron, because he has a lot of the same weapons.

Luol and Noah are great defenders. I'm sure that had a lot to do with them being ranked as high as they were.
Personally I thought Deng was ranked a little high (I think he was voted a better SF than Rudy Gay).

Kashmir13579
08-31-2010, 04:25 PM
Hating on a talented kid with sky high potential because of some fans who overrate him too soon is as ignorant as the fans who overrate him. Bulls fans are just excited because we watch all the games and have seen him grow and know that few PGs have been this good, this quick. It's hard not to get excited about it. But at the same time, hating on him is just stupid. He's gonna make a lot of people look very silly on here in a couple years.

he wasn't hating on him at all, bruh. he said he has a lot of potential but he is not as good as most bulls fans on this site say he is. he also said "YET", read much?. stop hating on yourself, KG2TheBulls

nightBULL
08-31-2010, 04:27 PM
Hating on a talented kid with sky high potential because of some fans who overrate him too soon is as ignorant as the fans who overrate him. Bulls fans are just excited because we watch all the games and have seen him grow and know that few PGs have been this good, this quick. It's hard not to get excited about it. But at the same time, hating on him is just stupid. He's gonna make a lot of people look very silly on here in a couple years.

I'm agree. I'm a bulls fan too, but sometimes it pains me to read some of the delusional posts I hear on our forum. It gets rediculous at times.

jimbobjarree
08-31-2010, 04:30 PM
he shouldnt be, but he will

KG2TB
08-31-2010, 04:30 PM
he wasn't hating on him at all, bruh. he said he has a lot of potential but he is not as good as most bulls fans on this site say he is. he also said "YET", read much?. stop hating on yourself, KG2TheBulls

I never said he was hating on him. Reading is fundamental. And I still don't understand how I'm hating on myself. Good luck in the future.

beasted86
08-31-2010, 04:30 PM
Rudy Gay didn't get the max....

Maybe you'll be surprised that he did.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/grizzlies.jsp

Hover over his name and it gives you contract details.

Also as noted by the NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q11), the maximum salary for a 4yr player is $13,603,750 for 2010-11.... which is exactly what Rudy's contract starts at... and if you do the math, he is getting the full 10.5% raises.

He definitely got a max deal.

mikealike305
08-31-2010, 04:31 PM
hes not a max player but he will get the money. will he be a max player? who knows. can he be a max player? yes

Ovratd1up
08-31-2010, 04:35 PM
While I can't find advanced stats for splits, Derrick Rose averaged 23.3/4.2/6.5 on a TS% of 55.8 in the 2010 section of the season, discounting two Orlando games where he left the game in the first quarter. His play appeared to get better as the playoffs got closer, and he led us on an uphill fight to the playoffs. Again, I can't say too much more to support him because I don't know his stats during the span. The Bulls were 32-19 in the last 51 games he played, with the help of an easier schedule.

He got a new coach in Tom Thibodeau, and he's already worked a little with Rose on his defense. Rose was quoted saying something like "He's a workaholic, I'm a workaholic, you can tell this will work well." Rose is actually a really hard worker, and a willing learner. Last year he worked all summer on his jumpshot and came back with one of the best, most consistent jumpers in the game. So having a real coach will most definitely help his game out a ton, especially on defense, maybe his biggest weakness last year.

One area of concern, one of his holes, is that he wasn't as efficient as superstars are, though his efficiency did improve as the year went on. That looks like it will improve with his supposed addition of a three pointer (which really can't be proven yet, but until October I'll take his word for it), as well as getting to the line more often. He might still not be great at it, but his attempts rose from under four a game Pre-All Star Break, to more than five post, suggesting that either he is improving, or his name will be more valuable to the refs as time goes on and he gets more recognition. Or both.

He is a 21 year old kid, and going into a third year where many stars have turned to superstars. Similar to Curry, he is for the first time not playing under a lousy at best coach, and he finally has (a) weapon(s) on his team that other stars have had for years. His decision making has gotten better, and I think is a far cry from what he has shown in these exhibition games. Again, he will finally play in a system, with plays, and Boozer should be a better fit than Noah in the pick and roll game, and this will probably make his decision making look better, even if it didn't improve at all.

Maybe Westbrook has a similar story, I don't know. He seems like he will be a very, very good player himself. But not there yet, like Rose was. And I love Curry, I think he has a chance to be a top point guard and player in this league for the next decade. I do think that Rose is on his way to superstardom, even if he's not showing it in these games.


I'm done with all the Rose ****, and everyone else, Rose fans or not, should be done too.

It really is terrible that he gets so much negative attention here from homers and haters alike, for he is one of the most likable people in the NBA and anyone who has seen him play healthy knows that he already is a star, and the future only looks brighter. There is literally nothing stopping him from eventually becoming one of the best players in the NBA, that is unless he reads PSD a lot.


This season should do wonders for how he is perceived here on PSD.

beasted86
08-31-2010, 04:35 PM
Luol and Noah are great defenders. I'm sure that had a lot to do with them being ranked as high as they were.
Personally I thought Deng was ranked a little high (I think he was voted a better SF than Rudy Gay).

Deng actually ended up 9th I think, and the Center rankings haven't been started yet, but I'm just saying what Bulls fans were claiming.

If you supposedly have (as defined by Bulls fans) a top 3 PG, a top 5 SF, and a top 5 Center, and you can't at least make it out of the first round, either somebody is overrating somebody, or the team's chemistry is f'd.

Kashmir13579
08-31-2010, 04:38 PM
I never said he was hating on him. Reading is fundamental. And I still don't understand how I'm hating on myself. Good luck in the future.

you implied that he was hating by quoting him. and you didn't actually acknowledge anything he said in his post. so why did you quote him? i really dont care. i actually voted that he is a max player (he obviously is) :D have a nice day.

Kashmir13579
08-31-2010, 04:40 PM
Deng actually ended up 9th I think, and the Center rankings haven't been started yet, but I'm just saying what Bulls fans were claiming.

If you supposedly have (as defined by Bulls fans) a top 3 PG, a top 5 SF, and a top 5 Center, and you can't at least make it out of the first round, either somebody is overrating somebody, or the team's chemistry is f'd.

most likely both. we'll see how they play with boozer this year though. if they are lower than a 4th seed they are underperforming.

Ovratd1up
08-31-2010, 04:44 PM
Deng actually ended up 9th I think, and the Center rankings haven't been started yet, but I'm just saying what Bulls fans were claiming.

If you supposedly have (as defined by Bulls fans) a top 3 PG, a top 5 SF, and a top 5 Center

Right now, it's more like top 5 PG, top 8 SF, and top 10 Center.


and you can't at least make it out of the first round, either somebody is overrating somebody, or the team's chemistry is f'd.

When the playoffs rolled around, it was more like top 6 PG, top 8 SF, and top 8 Center. Consider they faced the team with the best record in the league for two straight years. And last year, Noah and Deng were great... on defense. Noah didn't have much offensive game, and Deng sucks offesively when he doesn't play within a system. So Rose had plenty of help on defense, but barely any on offense.

Deng should be much better offensively this year with a coach and plays, etc, and Boozer should help out a ton as well.

mcgswfan
08-31-2010, 04:47 PM
I'm not a Bulls fan but I love this kid Rose. He has unlimited potential. However, is he a max player? No, not even close at this point in time. From what I have seen in the FIBA World Championships so far, he can barely hold his own against lesser talent. He can't shoot very well outside of 12 feet and his passing needs some work. Maybe this will change once they advance to rounds that actually mean something but as of right now, his play has been disappointing.

Will he be a max player eventually? Absolutely, but that's a few years away. I can see him as being the best guard in the game for a few years once he reaches his prime. Bulls fans are incredibly lucky and you are totally within your right to oagle or over hype this kid because he will likely exceed the hype once he is a seasoned veteran and understands all the nuances of the game.

There's just a handful of players in the league right now who we can say, without question, are deserving of max contracts: Kobe, Durant, LeBron, Wade and Howard. All the others who received them are overpaid. But this is no surprise considering that pretty much all the players are overpaid in the NBA.

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 04:50 PM
Maybe you'll be surprised that he did.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/grizzlies.jsp

Hover over his name and it gives you contract details.

Also as noted by the NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q11), the maximum salary for a 4yr player is $13,603,750 for 2010-11.... which is exactly what Rudy's contract starts at... and if you do the math, he is getting the full 10.5% raises.

He definitely got a max deal.

Rudy didn't get a max deal which would have been over $100 million. And those numbers you posted aren't reliable.

spartanbear
08-31-2010, 04:52 PM
There's a difference between these two questions...

Is Derrick Rose a max player?

Would you trade Derrick Rose for lbj, wade or Kobe?

By virtue of only playing two years of professional basketball I'll say Rose is not a max player.

I would only be willing to trade him for lbj. However I don't like lbj so I wouldn't trade him for anyone or anything. For a Rose of any other color, size, shape or attitude just doesn't smell as sweet. Actually a 6'8'' 250lbs rose does smell a lot like a big fat p*ssy.

Hawkeye15
08-31-2010, 05:04 PM
This kid is a max player and anyone who can't see that is a straight up hater. He's 21yrs old, averaged 21 & 6 this season and led his team to the playoffs.

CP3's 2nd yr--D.Will's 2nd yr--Nash's 2nd yr--Rondo's 2nd yr--Rose's 2nd yr
17 & 9--------16 & 9---------9 & 3----------11 & 5----------21 & 6-----

If this kid hasn't shown max player potential in his 2nd year then no other PG currently playing has either.

those don't show efficiency at all though. Paul was so superior to any of them. Also, Nash played at Santa Clara, and was drafted by a team led by Kevin Johnson, so not until year 3 did he get a chance.
Rose will get the max, and probably should, especially if he shows improved range and decision making this next year

Rndy
08-31-2010, 05:14 PM
I'm crazy jealous of Rose. That ****ing skittle machine is bad ***. Oh and his talent.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-31-2010, 05:14 PM
He'll be a max player in the future but he won't be better than either one of the players you suggested.

beasted86
08-31-2010, 05:16 PM
Rudy didn't get a max deal which would have been over $100 million. And those numbers you posted aren't reliable.

:facepalm:

Rudy got a 5yr max deal, not a 6yr... which is the only reason it's ove r $100M. Anyway, if you don't believe me I don't really care. I'm just backing up my statement with legit sources since you questioned it.

haggis
08-31-2010, 05:18 PM
I'm crazy jealous of Rose. That ****ing skittle machine is bad ***. Oh and his talent.

oh this one?

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5477611

U MAD???

beasted86
08-31-2010, 05:19 PM
those don't show efficiency at all though. Paul was so superior to any of them. Also, Nash played at Santa Clara, and was drafted by a team led by Kevin Johnson, so not until year 3 did he get a chance.
Rose will get the max, and probably should, especially if he shows improved range and decision making this next year

To add to this Nash nor Rondo ever got max deals.

Ezekial
08-31-2010, 05:30 PM
lol No he's not

I bet you think McGrady is.

Should the Wizards give John Wall a max, because you obviously think that Wall is better than Rose, which has to be one of the most unimpressive assessments ever made.

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 05:31 PM
those don't show efficiency at all though. Paul was so superior to any of them. Also, Nash played at Santa Clara, and was drafted by a team led by Kevin Johnson, so not until year 3 did he get a chance.
Rose will get the max, and probably should, especially if he shows improved range and decision making this next year

Rose had a higher eFG% than Deron or CP3 while playing at a higher usage and turning the ball over less frequently.

I'd say Rose is at least on par with Deron's/CP3's first two years.

29$JerZ
08-31-2010, 05:32 PM
Derrick Rose isn't a max player. However he is a PG and young so he will get the max amount that Chicago is allowed to give him.

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 05:44 PM
:facepalm:

Rudy got a 5yr max deal, not a 6yr... which is the only reason it's ove r $100M. Anyway, if you don't believe me I don't really care. I'm just backing up my statement with legit sources since you questioned it.

Max is max money and max years.

The owner even said Rudy didn't get a max deal and you didn't back up your numbers with legitimate sources. All salary figures are estimates based on leaks

Tony_Starks
08-31-2010, 05:49 PM
Wow that many people really think that poorly of Rose? I don't really get it but hey......

But yeah he's a max player any way I look at it. He can run a team, he's played big in the playoffs both years so you can rely on him when it counts, AND he's still getting better.

I'd lock him up now so thats one less guy I have to worry about later.....

Sadds The Gr8
08-31-2010, 05:55 PM
he isn't one yet but he will be one obviously.

this.

Hawkeye15
08-31-2010, 06:00 PM
To add to this Nash nor Rondo ever got max deals.

not then they didn't. Rondo may one day, and Nash finally got a big deal, though not the max.
In all honestly, Rose does not deserve the max. But with the ridiculous deals being slung around the past few years, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he gets one.

Jewelz0376
08-31-2010, 06:08 PM
Wow that many people really think that poorly of Rose? I don't really get it but hey......

But yeah he's a max player any way I look at it. He can run a team, he's played big in the playoffs both years so you can rely on him when it counts, AND he's still getting better.

I'd lock him up now so thats one less guy I have to worry about later.....

Yea I dont really understand it either... He just finished his second year and he's arguably a top 5 pg in the league already dropping 20 & 6... I'll admit he's more of a scorer than a distributor right now, but he will def get better at that....

To me if you think he shouldn't get the max then you must not think he will get much bettter than he is right now which is crazy considering how young he is...

Tony_Starks
08-31-2010, 06:09 PM
I guess it really depends on what your criteria for a "max player" is. I look at it like hey this guy is a legit, LEGIT mind you, allstar franchise player and leader. Barring injury he will be for the next 10plus years. That's max material IMO...

xxcubs22xx
08-31-2010, 06:21 PM
I guess it really depends on what your criteria for a "max player" is. I look at it like hey this guy is a legit, LEGIT mind you, allstar franchise player and leader. Barring injury he will be for the next 10plus years. That's max material IMO...

I agree.

I think D Rose will be a max player after this year or next year. This ESPECIALLY being true considering Joe Johnson is a "max player".

Someone said that D Rose can score at will at times, uhhh, no...He scores at will ALL the time.

I'd go out on a limb and say he is a max player now. Going from VDN to Thibodeau is like one end of the spectrum to the other (in terms of coaching talent)...And only now has D rose started to get at least some of the publicity that he deserves.

KG2TB
08-31-2010, 06:42 PM
you implied that he was hating by quoting him. and you didn't actually acknowledge anything he said in his post. so why did you quote him? i really dont care. i actually voted that he is a max player (he obviously is) :D have a nice day.

The confusion was that I meant other people shouldn't hate on him because of Bulls homers. Oh well. Good day.

MiamiWadeCounty
08-31-2010, 06:43 PM
in a few yrs yes. today no

BSplaya2121
08-31-2010, 06:45 PM
no offense to Joe Johnson or anything but if the Hawks were willing to give him an insane max deal then rose will probably get one when the time comes.

he def. is a special talent and has a ton of potential, baring a serious injury of any sort, I'd say he is a top 5-7 point guard at this point, but that doesn't say that in 10'-11' he won't have a breakout year...... i mean look at Rondo.

..... and this is coming from a Knicks fan, ultimate non-biased party here. (based on the past I should hate the Bulls):violin:

saintl2510
08-31-2010, 06:49 PM
this will really be derrick roseīs breakout year i think he will average 25ppg 7ast. 4 reb and 2.0 steals

BSplaya2121
08-31-2010, 06:51 PM
To me if you think he shouldn't get the max then you must not think he will get much bettter than he is right now which is crazy considering how young he is...

If NBA franchises start giving out max salary's for players who have loads of "potential" then there would be a ridiculous amount of money being handed out in free agency.

I'm not saying that Rose doesn't deserve it, but that just doesn't seem like a good enough reason to start handing out money because his numbers and where he took the team this season, and his efficiency, I think he is about 2-5 years away before we start talking about Derrick Rose being a max guy.

beasted86
08-31-2010, 06:54 PM
Max is max money and max years.

The owner even said Rudy didn't get a max deal and you didn't back up your numbers with legitimate sources. All salary figures are estimates based on leaks

The same owner who said he has never read the CBA? Max means the "maximum salary possible". Rudy got 5 years of the "maximum salary possible".

As far as salary estimates, if he got a 5yr/$82M contract, there are no estimates because $82M would be his max salary possible over the next 5 including raises. As far as legitimate sources, I don't have time to debate that. I can post 5 more sources including the Memphis Grizzlies beat writers who would have the same exact info and you could still choose not to believe it if you are really set on it.

xxcubs22xx
08-31-2010, 06:57 PM
To me i just see the Bulls as a team finally "molding" with the changes we've made this offseason. Derrick Rose has a lot to do with it, sure, but he is only going to get better.

For a while we've been far from that threshold of "true contention".

With the necessary pieces around Derrick Rose.....lookout. lol Or should i say:

"Whatcha head" - Stacey King


Seriously. D Rose is going to be a max player very soon. Thibs, maturity, and a good roster will help him reach great numbers.

I'm interested to see how many backcuts the Bulls run LOL

Hawkeye15
08-31-2010, 07:15 PM
Rose had a higher eFG% than Deron or CP3 while playing at a higher usage and turning the ball over less frequently.

I'd say Rose is at least on par with Deron's/CP3's first two years.

I could care less to even look up DWill here, but you have got to be kidding me if you think Rose is on par as far as PG talk with Paul in year 2. Paul's assists % was far superior to Rose's, Paul's offensive rating was far superior to Rose's, Paul was a better rebounder, got in the passing lanes more, their TS% was identical essentially, and Pauls win shares, and win shares per 48 were far higher.
Don't bother starting a statistical conversation regarding anyone against Chris Paul. You are a great poster, you know better.

Hawkeye15
08-31-2010, 07:20 PM
I could care less to even look up DWill here, but you have got to be kidding me if you think Rose is on par as far as PG talk with Paul in year 2. Paul's assists % was far superior to Rose's, Paul's offensive rating was far superior to Rose's, Paul was a better rebounder, got in the passing lanes more, their TS% was identical essentially, and Pauls win shares, and win shares per 48 were far higher.
Don't bother starting a statistical conversation regarding anyone against Chris Paul. You are a great poster, you know better.

edit- just looked up Dwill, and confirmed what I already knew. This past season, if Williams were drafted #3, fans would have laughed at his production rookie year. He was fat, and a SG coming out of college basically. He needed two years to figure out the NBA was for real, and get his position nailed down.


But it still stands, anyone who argues against Paul and his efficiency for any other player is attempting a lost argument from the get go. I remember his rookie year, experts were saying his numbers hadn't come around since Magic.

Hawkeye15
08-31-2010, 07:20 PM
damn quote button and edit button right next to each other. You get my point

daleja424
08-31-2010, 07:30 PM
How about Joe Johnson, Rudy Gay, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Pau Gasol, Carmelo Anthony? They all are making max value money too.

What separates them as "true max guys?"
The ability to be a true number one, a guy that you build a championship team around. You build around Wade, Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, Howard, Yao, Paul, or Deron...where as guys like Bosh, Stat, Gay, Johnson, Anthony are better suited to be number two guys on contenders.


Deron and CP3 both got max money



There are plenty of max deserving players in the NBA. In fact, a max contract for many teams is an absolute bargain. Now, someone like Amare or Joe Johnson, that's a different story because both are nearing the end of their primes and their performances now aren't even spectacular. But these up and comers, they will just be entering their primes and their maximum contract is of lesser value than veterans like Amare or JJ.

I'll take Marc Gasol for 5yrs/$85m over Amare at 6yrs/$120
the point is that the highest salary should be reserved for the best and most important players. Now it is not currently the case, but it should be. For example NY is paying Stat 17 mil next year while Miami is paying Lebron 14.5 mil. Asking if a guy is a max guy is like asking who are the best 5-10 players in the NBA in my opinion...the guys that deserve the highest pay.


It's not fair to compare him with someone that doesn't play PG, so I will focus on Deron Williams. Don't get it twisted, D Will is my fav PG in the league but what did he do in his first two years that D. Rose hasn't, let's see:

D Will went to the playoffs his first two years, so did D Rose

D Will was on team USA in his 2nd offseason, So was D Rose

D Will didnt make the All Star team in his first 2 yrs, But D Rose did

D Will didn't win Rookie of the Year, But D Rose did

D Will averaged more assist, D Rose averaged more points

So what make him a true max and D Rose not one? (going off the first two years)
Deron wasn't making max money year two either... but NOW deron is a max player. Whether he was a max guy year two is irrelevant. I am sure that Rose will very soon join the ranks of the best in the game, but he isnt there yet, so he isn't a max player.

Carter305
08-31-2010, 07:37 PM
Steve nash never got a max deal!!!!! End of story!! That asners this whole forum!

pebloemer
08-31-2010, 07:46 PM
The ability to be a true number one, a guy that you build a championship team around. You build around Wade, Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, Howard, Yao, Paul, or Deron...where as guys like Bosh, Stat, Gay, Johnson, Anthony are better suited to be number two guys on contenders.

It just seems that "true number one" and "max player" somehow became the same thing.

I mean is Bosh not worth a max salary to the Heat? If it helps them lead to a championship and it was market value for his services, is it not money well spent?

Jewelz0376
08-31-2010, 07:53 PM
If NBA franchises start giving out max salary's for players who have loads of "potential" then there would be a ridiculous amount of money being handed out in free agency.

I'm not saying that Rose doesn't deserve it, but that just doesn't seem like a good enough reason to start handing out money because his numbers and where he took the team this season, and his efficiency, I think he is about 2-5 years away before we start talking about Derrick Rose being a max guy.

Giving out money strictly on potential is dumb..but when you combine Rose's potential with the numbers he's already putting up in his 2nd year with an improving jumper.. I think he's def worth the max

LA_Raiders
08-31-2010, 08:14 PM
sorry chi, but no way...

SouthSideRookie
08-31-2010, 08:18 PM
Do you think Rose is a max player, most Bulls fans say they won't trade him for Lebron, Wade or Kobe because of his age and potential.....is there something about him non-Bulls fans are missing?

Are you serious???

daleja424
08-31-2010, 08:23 PM
It just seems that "true number one" and "max player" somehow became the same thing.

I mean is Bosh not worth a max salary to the Heat? If it helps them lead to a championship and it was market value for his services, is it not money well spent?

They do mean the same IMO. No way that any NBA player should be paid as much as kobe, wade, or lebron. There are some other number one options that come close. But just because teams are willing to overpay guys doesnt mean they deserve max money

Jewelz0376
08-31-2010, 08:28 PM
They do mean the same IMO. No way that any NBA player should be paid as much as kobe, wade, or lebron. There are some other number one options that come close. But just because teams are willing to overpay guys doesnt mean they deserve max money

I think maybe the only other guy to me is D12... He's not a #1 option, but because of his rebounding and d any team he's on is transformed instantly to one of the best defensive teams in the league...

AddiX
08-31-2010, 08:35 PM
wow, you guys would give max money to anyone. Rose? Come on now....

blacknell
08-31-2010, 08:38 PM
NO not yet max players are the ones who are top 5 in NBA, i don't think chris bosh should have got a max deal

drobe86
08-31-2010, 08:51 PM
No. No. No. Rose isn't on the same planet as Lebron, Wade, or Kobe and never will be. Don't let Bulls fans hype this guy up.

unleashthebeast
08-31-2010, 08:59 PM
NO not yet max players are the ones who are top 5 in NBA, i don't think chris bosh should have got a max deal

he didnt, remember;) all 3 of em took discounts

QuaLiThADoN
08-31-2010, 09:02 PM
86 bulls fans on PSD crazy lmfao

Raoul Duke
08-31-2010, 09:08 PM
No, but I'd bet a toe or two that he'll get very close to it.

td0tsfinest
08-31-2010, 09:10 PM
Too early to tell but as of right now, he's not worth a Max contract. He's got plenty of time to improve his game and take it to the next level.

Illinirob83
08-31-2010, 09:50 PM
this forum has officially been overrun by one of the worst fandoms in the NBA who have come out of the woodwork this summer, congrats. If Joe Johnson is a max f'n player, Derrick Rose will absolutely be. The Rose hate due to Miami "fans" hating Bulls fans makes this forum a bore. Miami Heat basketball fans are now acting like they actually know the league because they have the horses now? They are the standard of basketball knowledge on this forum?

Note to everyone that isn't a Miami bandwagon jumper.....when they write something, think the opposite it will make you smarter.

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 09:51 PM
NO not yet max players are the ones who are top 5 in NBA, i don't think chris bosh should have got a max deal

That's not how it works.

mynameismo
08-31-2010, 09:53 PM
Not yet.. but he'll get one pretty soon.

llemon
08-31-2010, 09:57 PM
this forum has officially been overrun by one of the worst fandoms in the NBA who have come out of the woodwork this summer, congrats. If Joe Johnson is a max f'n player, Derrick Rose will absolutely be. The Rose hate due to Miami "fans" hating Bulls fans makes this forum a bore. Miami Heat basketball fans are now acting like they actually know the league because they have the horses now? They are the standard of basketball knowledge on this forum?

Note to everyone that isn't a Miami bandwagon jumper.....when they write something, think the opposite it will make you smarter.


You're taking this much too personally.

Rose isn't up for a new contract, so this season will be a determining factor in whether he is a max player or not.

Drtino
08-31-2010, 09:57 PM
I'd say he's a Max player, basically because knowing how the NBA works by making a player's worth and trade value become exorbitant in order to make trading offers feasible, there's no denying that eventually he will get it, just because he's a good player.

I understand that he's young and he will eventually become an All-star (well, he already is), but I'll be crazy to say that I wouldn't trade him for Lebron or Kobe... that is just preposterous.

loufor2
08-31-2010, 10:13 PM
No, He is not really a true point at this point. He has been looking really sloppy with his handles and passing in FIBA play.

He may be down the road, but now, no. He may get one but he is NOT worth it.

sargon21
08-31-2010, 10:17 PM
^ what does being a true point have to do with it? and who the cares about fiba until the knockout round?

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 10:26 PM
The same owner who said he has never read the CBA? Max means the "maximum salary possible". Rudy got 5 years of the "maximum salary possible".

As far as salary estimates, if he got a 5yr/$82M contract, there are no estimates because $82M would be his max salary possible over the next 5 including raises. As far as legitimate sources, I don't have time to debate that. I can post 5 more sources including the Memphis Grizzlies beat writers who would have the same exact info and you could still choose not to believe it if you are really set on it.

Max player = Max contract allowable under the CBA. Gay didn't get it. From sources, it didn't even look like he got the full $82. Teams don't release actually contract numbers and sites like the one you posted will just guess based on leaks.

loufor2
08-31-2010, 10:27 PM
^ what does being a true point have to do with it? and who the cares about fiba until the knockout round?

did you watch the game. I'm just reporting what I saw. And I would prefer a 6 2 or 3 guard to be a true point guard. That is just me.

The_Jamal
08-31-2010, 10:32 PM
Tyreke Evans. Oh and no Rose isn't a max player, but like said a million times before me he'll be paid like one. If David freaking Lee can get close to a max deal Rose can

Bulls_fan90
08-31-2010, 10:39 PM
:facepalm: Rose was filling in for an injured player and did not deserve to be there

Do you have any idea what your talking about? Rose was voted in by the COACHES, as a reserve. He was not filling in for an injured player :facepalm:

sargon21
08-31-2010, 10:41 PM
did you watch the game. I'm just reporting what I saw. And I would prefer a 6 2 or 3 guard to be a true point guard. That is just me.

it's really irrelevent though, considering true points rarely win it all

D Roses Bulls
08-31-2010, 10:47 PM
I dont have a problem with some Miami fans, but of course the very few have to ruin it for the rest of you. how are you guys gonna sit there and talk about rose? are you jealous you didn't get in the position to draft him? are you jealous your point guard is chalmers? seriously you guys talk about how jealous bulls fans are that we didn't get lebron and you talk crap about rose like your jealous. if the bulls get carmelo, are you guys gonna start saying how he is overrated now? probably!!! seriously most of you guys are alright, but the few that still talk crap cause your jealous you didnt get to draft rose are pathetic.

loufor2
08-31-2010, 10:52 PM
it's really irrelevent though, considering true points rarely win it all

If you feel that confident about a championship... w.e, this a pointless argument. Neither Joe Johnson nor Rudy Gay were worth the max. Those were some of the many ridiculous signings this offseason because teams had money to spend etc.

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 11:04 PM
I could care less to even look up DWill here, but you have got to be kidding me if you think Rose is on par as far as PG talk with Paul in year 2. Paul's assists % was far superior to Rose's, Paul's offensive rating was far superior to Rose's, Paul was a better rebounder, got in the passing lanes more, their TS% was identical essentially, and Pauls win shares, and win shares per 48 were far higher.
Don't bother starting a statistical conversation regarding anyone against Chris Paul. You are a great poster, you know better.


Rose and Paul had different roles during year two. Rose carried the Bulls to the playoffs with an inexperianced coach. Paul was an outstanding distributer and third leading scorer in an intelligently designed offense.

I just don't think Year 2 Paul would've take the 09-10 Bulls to the playoffs.

D Roses Bulls
08-31-2010, 11:12 PM
Rose and Paul had different roles during year two. Rose carried the Bulls to the playoffs with an inexperianced coach. Paul was an outstanding distributer and third leading scorer in an intelligently designed offense.

I just don't think Year 2 Paul would've take the 09-10 Bulls to the playoffs.

agreed and the hornets at the time had a lot of talent. david west was playing on an all star level, they had peja, and chandler was also pretty good as well. paul didnt have to score as much as rose had too.

Kashmir13579
08-31-2010, 11:34 PM
I dont have a problem with some Miami fans, but of course the very few have to ruin it for the rest of you. how are you guys gonna sit there and talk about rose? are you jealous you didn't get in the position to draft him? are you jealous your point guard is chalmers? seriously you guys talk about how jealous bulls fans are that we didn't get lebron and you talk crap about rose like your jealous. if the bulls get carmelo, are you guys gonna start saying how he is overrated now? probably!!! seriously most of you guys are alright, but the few that still talk crap cause your jealous you didnt get to draft rose are pathetic.

:facepalm:

D Roses Bulls
08-31-2010, 11:44 PM
:facepalm:

i wondering when you would turn up. I guess I have two guys following me on this site now. :rolleyes:

boriquaabe
08-31-2010, 11:48 PM
Although I'm not a fan.(because he ain't no point guard)....

yes, he's a max player.

xBLAMEITON24x
09-01-2010, 12:06 AM
no...

maybe in a year or two.

MacFitz92
09-01-2010, 12:09 AM
Rose is potentially a max player.

Sadds The Gr8
09-01-2010, 12:14 AM
I dont have a problem with some Miami fans, but of course the very few have to ruin it for the rest of you. how are you guys gonna sit there and talk about rose? are you jealous you didn't get in the position to draft him? are you jealous your point guard is chalmers? seriously you guys talk about how jealous bulls fans are that we didn't get lebron and you talk crap about rose like your jealous. if the bulls get carmelo, are you guys gonna start saying how he is overrated now? probably!!! seriously most of you guys are alright, but the few that still talk crap cause your jealous you didnt get to draft rose are pathetic.

Too bad that isn't happening...

mvb815
09-01-2010, 12:26 AM
it's hard to say, just because there are so many good point guards in the league right now.

on one hand, yes you could give rose a max contract because he has the potential to be worth one really soon.

on the other hand, you could save your max contract options for a different available position that's harder to come by and pay a point guard less to still do a decent job running the team.

Kashmir13579
09-01-2010, 12:27 AM
i wondering when you would turn up. I guess I have two guys following me on this site now. :rolleyes:

i try to stay as close to your knowledgeable posts as i possibly can :up:

Wade>You
09-01-2010, 12:32 AM
If Hinrich can get $11mil and Deng $12mil. Derrick Rose is gonna get a max contract. He's got way more potential than those two, so yeah. Max for sure.

mohye
09-01-2010, 01:31 AM
He is not a max player but probably will get paid like one....

Is Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson a max player?? Hell no but they got paid like they were..idiot owners

xILLN355
09-01-2010, 01:56 AM
he'll get paid like one

tredigs
09-01-2010, 02:08 AM
Look how this kid has performed in the playoffs; and the amount of buzz (see: revenue!) that he draws in. He will be a max player, and deservedly so.

He's a year of improvement and a consistent 3 pt shot away from bordering on superstar status. I'd rather have D-Rose than Melo going forward 7 days out of the week, btw.

Basketball-economics wise, he is as no-brainer as you get for a max offer.

pebloemer
09-01-2010, 08:39 AM
They do mean the same IMO. No way that any NBA player should be paid as much as kobe, wade, or lebron. There are some other number one options that come close. But just because teams are willing to overpay guys doesnt mean they deserve max money

Getting into an argument about what NBA players "deserve" in salary would likely get this discussion off topic, so I won't bother discussing how any basketball player "deserves" 20 million dollars a year.

It's all about market value and the business strategy of the team. I have no problem stating that Derrick Rose is not in the same discussion as Wade, LeBron and Kobe. But him being a "max player" really has nothing to do with that. If the Bulls were limited under a hard cap and unable to cross the salary cap threshold, to the point that a "max contract" was actually 25% of the teams budget, than discussing how much Rose deserves for the impact he has on the court would be a perfect correlation.

But the reality of a soft cap is that teams go far and above that threshold to the point that Dwight Howard is approximately 18% of Orlando's budget. Is Dwight Howard worth 18% of Orlando's budget for what he produces on the court? Certainly. If Chicago was willing to build around Rose at a max contract, and spend $90 million (plux luxury tax) to put that team around him, would he be worth 18% of their team budget? I would say certainly. Is Chris Bosh worth 18% of a team's budget? I could argue it, but the team would have to be very good at building around him.

My point is that the economics of the NBA are to the point where there is too much market competition for only 3 players in the league to be worthy of a max deal. Teams can operate above the cap to the point where a max deal doesn't hinder their ability to bring in more stars and a competitive supporting cast. The only way to qualify what players "deserve" is market value or the financial/competitive situation of the franchise looking to sign on the dotted line.

(I do know you are aware of salary cap rules, I just had to brush through it to make my point - and my apologies if I looped you into a conversation you didn't sign up for - the term "max player" that goes around these forums simply seems like a very abstract, subjective term and I don't see the reason for its basis. It's a point where a thread about whether someone is a "max player" is a very loaded question to answer).

KevNasti
09-01-2010, 09:09 AM
ummmmmmmmmmm yea he is this is only his third season coming up and he's already a top 5 PG in the league. He hasn't had the best talent around him and still wills the Bulls to victories. Even in the playoffs last season no1 on the Cavs could guard him. His jump shot gets better every season. He won the Rookie of The Year award. What more could he do in 2 years?

Hawkeye15
09-01-2010, 09:10 AM
Rose and Paul had different roles during year two. Rose carried the Bulls to the playoffs with an inexperianced coach. Paul was an outstanding distributer and third leading scorer in an intelligently designed offense.

I just don't think Year 2 Paul would've take the 09-10 Bulls to the playoffs.

you have to be kidding me. Paul was probably the best PG in the NBA by year 2.
You are severly underrating Paul dude. He was dominant from the first day he stepped on the floor in the NBA. Paul had more win shares in a tougher conference. He would have had no problem optimizing the Bulls efficiency. And this isn't a slight at Rose at all.

KevNasti
09-01-2010, 09:11 AM
He is not a max player but probably will get paid like one....

Is Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson a max player?? Hell no but they got paid like they were..idiot owners

(why are you comparing Rose to those 2......his numbers are better then both of them)

Hawkeye15
09-01-2010, 09:11 AM
agreed and the hornets at the time had a lot of talent. david west was playing on an all star level, they had peja, and chandler was also pretty good as well. paul didnt have to score as much as rose had too.

haha. Why was David West playing at an all star level? Why did Chandler come out of nowhere to have an efficient offensive season? Peja missed most the season that year.
Chris Paul is the answer to both.

awmathewsjr
09-01-2010, 10:56 AM
:facepalm: Rose was filling in for an injured player and did not deserve to be there


***** please. Rose is in Eastern Conference. Everything is loaded here. he wouldn't even sniff the all star game on this side

After all the points I made on that post this was u guys only comeback. :facepalm:yourself

Niro
09-01-2010, 11:09 AM
i still think he is not a max player but i guess u guys are right he is hoing to get it...

some owners are just flat out stupid..cry all day long that they loose money but give guys like jj,rose and gay (not sure if he has max) max contracts lol..fail

awmathewsjr
09-01-2010, 11:10 AM
those don't show efficiency at all though. Paul was so superior to any of them. Also, Nash played at Santa Clara, and was drafted by a team led by Kevin Johnson, so not until year 3 did he get a chance.
Rose will get the max, and probably should, especially if he shows improved range and decision making this next year

This is true and Rose was drafted No 1 overall, he has taken his team to the playoffs every year, improved every year and has clearly elevated his game to top PG status. So I don't why people are hating on this kid.

mrblisterdundee
09-01-2010, 11:16 AM
Bulls fans are too partial to make a proper judgment of Derrick Rose. He's not a max player, regardless of his explosiveness, but close. Don't tell me about his leadership, either. Team USA doesn't need that much leadership, when its squad is so much better than any other country's; maybe they need to be organized against Spain, but nobody else. Besides, everybody knows who the best player on Team USA is; his name is Kevin Durant. Regardless, though, Rose can be a co-leader on a championship team.

Hawkeye15
09-01-2010, 11:19 AM
This is true and Rose was drafted No 1 overall, he has taken his team to the playoffs every year, improved every year and has clearly elevated his game to top PG status. So I don't why people are hating on this kid.

I love Rose actually. And fans are hating on him because he is living up to expectations, and climbing the ladder of dominance. There is no way he isn't a top 5 PG this coming season imo. He wasn't last year, but he is sliding into the area this season.

Rivera
09-01-2010, 11:31 AM
if rudy gay and rashard lewis are max players

then derrick rose will get the max no matter what

8kobe24
09-01-2010, 11:32 AM
Is he max salary player, no...not yet at least. Will be get max salary someday? Most likely.

IrespectNumber3
09-01-2010, 11:52 AM
The question is if Rose asked for the Max from the Bulls much like Amare did would they let him walk? Hell No. The Bulls would pay Rose the max.

Anyone else who doesn't think so Isn't taking all issues into account.

Rose is there Franchise player it doesn't matter how good or bad he is, it's the principle that he is there Franchise.

thekmp211
09-01-2010, 12:54 PM
he'll get paid, few guys are, though.

NJrockPD
09-01-2010, 01:10 PM
Kobe is old, Wade is kind of old with injury issues. I would take Rose over both of them.

Lebron is a different story, there is no player I would take over Lebron.

mikantsass
09-01-2010, 01:21 PM
I dont have a problem with some Miami fans, but of course the very few have to ruin it for the rest of you. how are you guys gonna sit there and talk about rose? are you jealous you didn't get in the position to draft him? are you jealous your point guard is chalmers? seriously you guys talk about how jealous bulls fans are that we didn't get lebron and you talk crap about rose like your jealous. if the bulls get carmelo, are you guys gonna start saying how he is overrated now? probably!!! seriously most of you guys are alright, but the few that still talk crap cause your jealous you didnt get to draft rose are pathetic.

Lol are you serious? Yeah I'm sure they are jealous they dont have frickin Derrick Rose. Did you see the offseason they had? Well you must have considering the Bulls top 3 targets ALL signed with Miami.

tcav701
09-01-2010, 01:36 PM
He actually looks closer to a MIN player in FIBA

Meaze_Gibson
09-01-2010, 02:14 PM
Absolutely, I judge a max player by what they do in the season but moreso the Playoffs. In Rose's playoffs career, he played arguably two of the top 3 teams in the NBA and more than held his own. I saw Joe Johnson lay down 2 years in a row. I saw CP let Pargo control the Hornets destiny vs spurs one year and then get sonned by Billups another year. In my mind a young pg who has lead the team to Playoff's, increased his production in Playoffs versus elite teams is definitely worth the max.

avon_barksdale
09-01-2010, 02:14 PM
Cmon dis dude been in the nba for 2 years and you wanna give him da max? overrated

give tyreke da max too then.

HakeemTheDream
09-01-2010, 02:42 PM
Rose is roughly worth 13m imo. But a lot of NBA players get overpaid (JJ, Rashard Lewis ect.) so what can I say?

ramsizzle
09-01-2010, 05:11 PM
Rose is roughly worth 13m imo. But a lot of NBA players get overpaid (JJ, Rashard Lewis ect.) so what can I say?

Well after the new cba comes about the max will probably drop to around 14-15 million. So he'll get the max

Coqui77
09-01-2010, 05:45 PM
He will be one day but not now, let's see after this season...
Right now I'm more impressed with Westbrook and Curry than Rose

GSRaider
09-01-2010, 05:54 PM
what defines a max player? imo, a top 3-4 player at his position...

top pgs in the league... deron williams, chris paul, steve nash and derrick rose all deserve max contracts... maybe eveb rajon rondo...

thekmp211
09-01-2010, 09:07 PM
derrick rose needs a permaban from this site. it's mind-numbing.

Baller1
09-02-2010, 12:53 AM
Kobe is old, Wade is kind of old with injury issues. I would take Rose over both of them.

Lebron is a different story, there is no player I would take over Lebron.

:laugh2:

My god...

Ovratd1up
09-02-2010, 01:17 AM
:laugh2:

My god...

Let's take Kobe. He's 31. Derrick is 21. Derrick has plenty of time until he reaches his prime to improve. Kobe will only decline from here and will retire in 4-8 years. Derrick.. won't. Would you really take Kobe at this point?

Baller1
09-02-2010, 01:23 AM
Let's take Kobe. He's 31. Derrick is 21. Derrick has plenty of time until he reaches his prime to improve. Kobe will only decline from here and will retire in 4-8 years. Derrick.. won't. Would you really take Kobe at this point?

I was more so laughing at the fact that he'd take Rose over Wade.

Kobe would be a tough choice for me simply because the age factor.

Ovratd1up
09-02-2010, 01:40 AM
I was more so laughing at the fact that he'd take Rose over Wade.

Kobe would be a tough choice for me simply because the age factor.

With Wade's style of play he's due for a steep decline in two/three years. Then he's 31, and won't even be able to play as long or as well as Kobe because of his reliance on his athleticism.

Not saying I necessarily agree, but age is a ***** and a legit argument right now.

FLMeth06
09-02-2010, 01:43 AM
Rose's Max at this point isn't as high as a guy like Lebron. I don't remember what the Max for Rose is but he's likely worth it.

Ovratd1up
09-02-2010, 01:48 AM
Rose's Max at this point isn't as high as a guy like Lebron. I don't remember what the Max for Rose is but he's likely worth it.

It's $13,603,750 with raises of $1,428,709 (10.5%) every year.

Bulls_fan90
09-02-2010, 04:10 AM
:laugh2:

My god...

What?

They are both better players BUT they are also MUCH older than Rose. I don't understand why you have so much hate for Derrick Rose. You’re one of the most annoying posters going around. Would you trade Westbrook for Billups or Nash? Btw Rose >Westbrook

Rose Rookie of the year - Westbrook wasn't even runner up

Rose made the All-star team - Westbrook hasn’t

Rose starts ahead of Westbrook for team USA - Westbrook is the backup

U mad?

Baller1
09-02-2010, 12:08 PM
What?

They are both better players BUT they are also MUCH older than Rose. I don't understand why you have so much hate for Derrick Rose. Youíre one of the most annoying posters going around. Would you trade Westbrook for Billups or Nash? Btw Rose >Westbrook

Rose Rookie of the year - Westbrook wasn't even runner up

Rose made the All-star team - Westbrook hasnít

Rose starts ahead of Westbrook for team USA - Westbrook is the backup

U mad?

Oh, I'm so sorry... Does my knowledge of the game annoy you?

Here you go, I've already done all the work on this subject before. You're welcome for saving you the time.


Stats? Alright, works for me. This is actually extremely easy considering the works been done for me.

Here you go, you're welcome. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2010&p2=rosede01&y2=2010)

As you can see, Rose is only better at scoring the ball more and turning it over less. Other than that, Westbrook has higher percentages in offensive rebounding (not close), defensive rebounding, passing (AST%), stealing, and blocking. On top of that, Westbrook's defense is far better than Rose as Wesbtrook provides more defensive win shares, and more win shares overall for that matter, although it is very close.

Furthermore, Westbrook absolutely destroys Rose in every possible way in the playoffs. Granted neither have much of a resume to work with, but of what there is, it's fair to say that it's "not fair" to compare the two in the postseason.

Alright, and now a section for the kiddies who can't comprehend all that.

Maybe this will make it easier. (http://www.rototimes.com/nba/player_comparison.php)

In simpler terms, Westbrook is superior in rebounding, free throw shooting, passing, stealing, blocking, and is a better defender in general.

Now for some fun facts:

Westbrook has a 59.7 WIN% compared to Rose's 46.8
Rose is assisted on more of his baskets than Westbrook, meaning Westbrook creates for himself more often
Westbrook is much more efficient at creating fouls for himself at a clip of 14.1% to Rose's 8.8%
Passing Rating: Westbrook - 15.8/Rose - 9.1
Rebounding Rating: Westbrook 14.5/Rose - 10.9
Westbrook also has a higher block rating: 1.7 compared to a meer 0.8 for Rose
When comparing the two by production per 48 at POINT GUARD, Westbrook once again basically blows him out once again


Russell Westbrook (http://www.82games.com/0910/09OKC5.HTM)
Derrick Rose (http://www.82games.com/0809/08CHI1.HTM)

What I'm trying to say is, Rose is the better Shooting Guard while Westbrook is the better Point Guard. Considering they both play point guard...


Russell Westbrook > Derrick Rose

Baller1
09-02-2010, 12:10 PM
What?

They are both better players BUT they are also MUCH older than Rose. I don't understand why you have so much hate for Derrick Rose. Youíre one of the most annoying posters going around. Would you trade Westbrook for Billups or Nash? Btw Rose >Westbrook

Rose Rookie of the year - Westbrook wasn't even runner up

Rose made the All-star team - Westbrook hasnít

Rose starts ahead of Westbrook for team USA - Westbrook is the backup

U mad?

So now you're saying Billups and Nash or on the same level as Kobe and Wade? Damn, what is this site coming to.

Coqui77
09-02-2010, 02:50 PM
Oh, I'm so sorry... Does my knowledge of the game annoy you?

Here you go, I've already done all the work on this subject before. You're welcome for saving you the time.

Agree 100% Westbrook > Rose

Jewelz0376
09-02-2010, 03:19 PM
Westbrook and Rose are pretty close...Westbrook is a much better defender, while Rose is a much better scorer...Westbrook is probably a little bit better distributor than Rose, although playing with a scorer like Durant def helps your assist totals... RIght now overall Westbrook is probably better but Rose def has more potential than Westbrook...Rose def needs to become a better distributor...