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View Full Version : Can the NBA teams learn anything from the FIBA World Championships and the Olympics?



FOBolous
08-31-2010, 12:58 AM
There's no question no team from any country can compare to Team USA in terms of talent. But for some reason, teams from certain countries with inferior talent are always able to give Team USA a run for their money.

Despite the final score of 118 to 107, the final game of the 2008 Olympics was a very tight game. In fact, towards the end of the 4th quarter, it looks like Spain was going to win the game with the Spanish team making several big plays highlighted by Rudy Fernandez dunking on Dwight Howard. If it wasn't for Kobe Bryant's heroics towards the end of the game, Team USA could've easily lost the game and the "Redeem Team...consisting of players like Kobe, Lebron, and Dwight Howard...would've ultimately fail.

In this year's FIBA World Championship, a tournament Team USA have not won since 1994 (yes, even the famous Redeem Team couldn't win the gold in this tournament), we saw Team USA almost losing two games: an exhibition game vs Spain and the recent game vs Brazil. Both of these games was only decided by 2 pts.

With all the talent Team USA have, the games should not be that close. A team of Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Dwight Howard, and Chris Paul should've easily blown out Spain...a team with Jose Calderon, Rudy Fernandez, and Paul Gasol as its 3 best player. And while his year's Team USA does not feature any real NBA superstars, it's still vastly superior to any international team in terms of talent.

Yet these teams with inferior talent are always able to give Team USA trouble on a consistent basis. If it's just one or two games...alright. they just go lucky. but no. they ALWAYS give Team USA trouble.

Can teams in the NBA learn from this? Is there something to be said about the values of teamwork as oppose to an over reliance on one or two superstars? Should NBA teams review its blueprint for winning? Instead of loading up on talent like what the Lakers, Celtics, and the Heat have done...should NBA teams start being loyal to itheir players, hire a good coach, and develop the team to the point where the team plays as well with each other as the teams in international tournaments? Seeing how some of these international teams play, I have no doubt in my mind that teams like Brazil, Spain, Argentina, and Greece can easily beat the Lakers, Celtics, and the Heat in a game.

tredigs
08-31-2010, 01:12 AM
In defense of Team USA's team: these are games that USA is playing on their turf, under their rules, with their balls (even if the they are one of the teams with multiple NBA starters, they undoubtedly played under FIBA rules at some point in their career).

That, along with the continuity that a lot of these teams have over the constantly changing, and seldom practicing NBA squads creates a sense of parity that wouldn't exist if these teams were playing our rules.

For example: The OKC Thunder (minus Ibaka, Kristic and Sefalosha - who are foreign) with Dwight Howard and Duncan would absolutely murder every team in this FIBA tournament were they to play in America under an NBA rules tournament.

PG: Westbrook
SG: Harden
SF: Durant
PF: Duncan
C: D. Howard

It just wouldn't be close, or fair. That said, yes, there are things to learn from the game that these teams play. Namely, more our big men need to grow up with better fundamentals and shooting touch to supplement their physical dominance and toughness.

myglobs
08-31-2010, 07:31 AM
Well the games are a bit different so i would not for starters agree that team usa is so much superior in terms of talent to european teams. what is certain is that the team usa players are more athletic but also more talentent in basketball skills?!? well that would be a question.

one of the best point guards in the nba, rajan rondo, can't hit a jumpshot or for that matter a freebee if his life would depend on it. that is a huge lack of skill, what he can do is penatrate and only because there is this no offensive foul under the basket and no hand checking rule in the nba.
in international play he is rendered absolutly useless. that was the problem of all the usa teams that did not win in international play. they were very athletic but lacked fundamental basketball skill eg. hitting open jumpers and as it sometimes seems you don't have to have that skill to be very productiv and good in the nba. the same goes for big men. most of the american big men have awful footwork but can jump very high. to emphesize my point, what other basketball skill does dwight has dispite his jumping?

i think due to a lack of athletic- skill the euros do have better fundamental basketball skills.

and just for the sake of diskussion. i know that there are also nba players with good all around skills, but i'm just saying that it is not as common as in international play because you don't need it in the nba to be successfull.

GspLAL
08-31-2010, 08:02 AM
There's no question no team from any country can compare to Team USA in terms of talent. But for some reason, teams from certain countries with inferior talent are always able to give Team USA a run for their money.

Despite the final score of 118 to 107, the final game of the 2008 Olympics was a very tight game. In fact, towards the end of the 4th quarter, it looks like Spain was going to win the game with the Spanish team making several big plays highlighted by Rudy Fernandez dunking on Dwight Howard. If it wasn't for Kobe Bryant's heroics towards the end of the game, Team USA could've easily lost the game and the "Redeem Team...consisting of players like Kobe, Lebron, and Dwight Howard...would've ultimately fail.

In this year's FIBA World Championship, a tournament Team USA have not won since 1994 (yes, even the famous Redeem Team couldn't win the gold in this tournament), we saw Team USA almost losing two games: an exhibition game vs Spain and the recent game vs Brazil. Both of these games was only decided by 2 pts.

With all the talent Team USA have, the games should not be that close. A team of Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Dwight Howard, and Chris Paul should've easily blown out Spain...a team with Jose Calderon, Rudy Fernandez, and Paul Gasol as its 3 best player. And while his year's Team USA does not feature any real NBA superstars, it's still vastly superior to any international team in terms of talent.

Yet these teams with inferior talent are always able to give Team USA trouble on a consistent basis. If it's just one or two games...alright. they just go lucky. but no. they ALWAYS give Team USA trouble.

Can teams in the NBA learn from this? Is there something to be said about the values of teamwork as oppose to an over reliance on one or two superstars? Should NBA teams review its blueprint for winning? Instead of loading up on talent like what the Lakers, Celtics, and the Heat have done...should NBA teams start being loyal to itheir players, hire a good coach, and develop the team to the point where the team plays as well with each other as the teams in international tournaments? Seeing how some of these international teams play, I have no doubt in my mind that teams like Brazil, Spain, Argentina, and Greece can easily beat the Lakers, Celtics, and the Heat in a game.

The Lakers and Celtics are teams that have been practicing/playing/going to finals with each other it's not like the FIBA team where no one has played with one another so to say Greece, Spain, Argentina etc would beat them because they're that close to beating Team USA is not really accurate.

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 08:25 AM
In defense of Team USA's team: these are games that USA is playing on their turf, under their rules, with their balls (even if the they are one of the teams with multiple NBA starters, they undoubtedly played under FIBA rules at some point in their career).

That, along with the continuity that a lot of these teams have over the constantly changing, and seldom practicing NBA squads creates a sense of parity that wouldn't exist if these teams were playing our rules.

For example: The OKC Thunder (minus Ibaka, Kristic and Sefalosha - who are foreign) with Dwight Howard and Duncan would absolutely murder every team in this FIBA tournament were they to play in America under an NBA rules tournament.

PG: Westbrook
SG: Harden
SF: Durant
PF: Duncan
C: D. Howard

It just wouldn't be close, or fair. That said, yes, there are things to learn from the game that these teams play. Namely, more our big men need to grow up with better fundamentals and shooting touch to supplement their physical dominance and toughness.


NBA rules nowadays, is not basketball.

Zone defense is sort of illegal in the NBA so an athletic player can simply penetrate and score.
In offense, these teams play the game way differently. The ball goes through almost everyone. This cannot be achieved when the defense is man-to-man that forces isolation to the ball handler.
Also, players in the NBA are allowed one extra step in comparison to FIBA rules. That's a major advantage and that's why you get many travel calls in the World Championship (most are not called out of leniency though)

That being said, the NBA rules not only favor the more athletic players, they are built for the more athletic players. And since basketball is a team sport, I can't see how the NBA rules have much relevance to basketball as they used to have.

If the NBA players played under FIBA rules instead of their own rules, they would have had better skills and would have it much easier against the rest of the world.

But even then, I remember a star USA team in 2000 (before the rule change) struggling to beat Lithuania, and even stuggling once more in 2004. This was due to a superstar performance of a certain Lithuanian who never cut it to the NBA despite having probably the highest basketball IQ since John Stockton, and a great jump shot. (Jasikevicius, best European player of the decade)
USA has changed since 2000. It remained static while the rest of the world improved. (I won't comment on 1998 because it was just college boys)

You simply underrate the rest of the world. These players are very talented, but they lack the athleticism to compete in the NBA. That's why Tony Parker made it in the NBA. Too darn fast for his size.
And that's the main reason you only see gigantic international players instead of "average" sized. You won't see many foreign guards in the NBA, but you'll see lots of PF/C like Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol, Kaman etc... Most of these guys are excellent basketball players for their size, so they can dominate against athletic NBA stars who usually can't hit jump shots.

Until the rules meet at some point, we can never be absolute with comparisons.
European rules have changed and most people absolutely hate it even if they haven't seen them yet, I hate them as well...

save the knicks
08-31-2010, 09:47 AM
NBA rules nowadays, is not basketball.

Zone defense is sort of illegal in the NBA so an athletic player can simply penetrate and score.
In offense, these teams play the game way differently. The ball goes through almost everyone. This cannot be achieved when the defense is man-to-man that forces isolation to the ball handler.
Also, players in the NBA are allowed one extra step in comparison to FIBA rules. That's a major advantage and that's why you get many travel calls in the World Championship (most are not called out of leniency though)

That being said, the NBA rules not only favor the more athletic players, they are built for the more athletic players. And since basketball is a team sport, I can't see how the NBA rules have much relevance to basketball as they used to have.

If the NBA players played under FIBA rules instead of their own rules, they would have had better skills and would have it much easier against the rest of the world.

But even then, I remember a star USA team in 2000 (before the rule change) struggling to beat Lithuania, and even stuggling once more in 2004. This was due to a superstar performance of a certain Lithuanian who never cut it to the NBA despite having probably the highest basketball IQ since John Stockton, and a great jump shot. (Jasikevicius, best European player of the decade)
USA has changed since 2000. It remained static while the rest of the world improved. (I won't comment on 1998 because it was just college boys)

You simply underrate the rest of the world. These players are very talented, but they lack the athleticism to compete in the NBA. That's why Tony Parker made it in the NBA. Too darn fast for his size.
And that's the main reason you only see gigantic international players instead of "average" sized. You won't see many foreign guards in the NBA, but you'll see lots of PF/C like Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol, Kaman etc... Most of these guys are excellent basketball players for their size, so they can dominate against athletic NBA stars who usually can't hit jump shots.

Until the rules meet at some point, we can never be absolute with comparisons.
European rules have changed and most people absolutely hate it even if they haven't seen them yet, I hate them as well...

Do you think any of this has to do with Europe's top athletes going to soccer instead of B-ball? I would think that Ronaldo would have the speed and quickness to keep up

tcav701
08-31-2010, 10:03 AM
What can they learn????

You're never too good to pass the ball and play defense.

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 10:36 AM
Do you think any of this has to do with Europe's top athletes going to soccer instead of B-ball? I would think that Ronaldo would have the speed and quickness to keep up

Not really.

Basketball requires height. Most soccer players are short, but there are some 6ft+ of course.

Main competition, specially in Eastern European countries, comes from volleyball.

Soccer players do not have to be real fast. The faster the better of course, but it's the skills that make the players good. If he can outrun the defense plus be an excellent ball player, he can be in the elite, but he could also be 5ft4 :D (the current best player in the world)

Also, the best player (for many) in European basketball of the last 15 years, was really slow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4

He could do this to one of the NBA best players, when he was 32 years old though :cool:

European game has nothing to do with athleticism. It's more of an American (maybe French too) concept.
Check the ex-Yugo teams how they play. Calculated moves. Speed is usually the enemy in set plays. Same with ex-Soviet teams.

Players usually don't go solo 1 on 5 (that's how USA plays in this tournament, not 1 on 1 like the NBA) so they don't have to make hasty actions. Unless they're going for transition points :p

Da Knicks
08-31-2010, 10:38 AM
Problem with u.s. players is too many of them are used to being volume shooters- Kobe, Durant, Wade etc and in Fiba that would gaurantee a loss. Other players like Lebron, Rondo, Howard are not selfish but the jumper is just not there, Lebron not too much but he still needs work. Passing is the lost art from the nba since most players want to be flashy and never develop the passing iq that all the teams in Fiba thrive on.

Finally ego, team usa feels that all teams should just bow down to them while the rest of the world looks at them as bullies. Fouls are something that plays a big part in this ego driving league, i have always said it Kobe and Wade would not last a whole game in Fiba if they where allowed to hack players the way they do in the nba. The game against spain showed that the world does not see them as stars and therefore didnt give them the calls they are used to.

I love usa basketball but there are a lot of things that need to be worked on before they can win this year. The first is understanding basketball is a team game not an iso game where the "star" gets all the calls.

Hellcrooner
08-31-2010, 10:38 AM
lol at complaining about the rules.

Ncaa uses VERY similar rules. And after Years of playing in the Nba players like The gasols, rudy, Calderon, Manu, Scola,Pietrys etc etc they are as used to nba rules as teh american players.

As i say, mericans have polayed that rules too in the ncaa......ohg wait!!!! they havent!!!! they went straight up or one year and done..........:facepalm: new Cba should put up there 3 mandatoruy ncaa years.

And Nk all the way, bout the Leninency with traveling and usa teams it makes me SICK if it was called tightly they woudlnt have won gold in the olympics.

FOBolous
08-31-2010, 12:50 PM
lol at complaining about the rules.

Ncaa uses VERY similar rules. And after Years of playing in the Nba players like The gasols, rudy, Calderon, Manu, Scola,Pietrys etc etc they are as used to nba rules as teh american players.

As i say, mericans have polayed that rules too in the ncaa......ohg wait!!!! they havent!!!! they went straight up or one year and done..........:facepalm: new Cba should put up there 3 mandatoruy ncaa years.

And Nk all the way, bout the Leninency with traveling and usa teams it makes me SICK if it was called tightly they woudlnt have won gold in the olympics.

:clap:

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 01:19 PM
I hate system basketball and that is what FIBA and NCAA is all about.

So what can the NBA learn? That rule changes like the no charge semi circle and defensive 3 seconds make the game more enjoyable to watch and play. It puts the game on the players and not entirely the coach's scheme.

The only thing I would change about the NBA is to instruct the refs to call less fouls and let the players battle it out.

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 01:44 PM
If you enjoy 2-3 player teams, then you prefer the NBa, simple as that.
I prefer 8-9+ player teams. My team in Europe is a 10-11 player team usually and most successful team of the last 20 years, but hey, that's just me and a couple of million others