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MrfadeawayJB
08-30-2010, 04:51 PM
I noticed in the FIBA world tournament that teams like (Spain, Argentina, Greece, and Brazil) seem to play awesome team basketball.

The ball movement is excellent, and there is much more of it than team USA displays. Now i'm not saying team USA is selfish, but that other teams are more unselfish.

Why do you think ball movement is much more fluid in foreign teams than in team USA?

MrfadeawayJB
08-30-2010, 04:52 PM
I personally believe because the other teams lack the talent that the US has, so they have to have more ball movement than isolation plays.

Niro
08-30-2010, 05:03 PM
yeah if you dont have superstars (or lets say stars since most nba superstars dont play in the tournament) you have to play team basketball to suceed.

DeShaun Brown
08-30-2010, 05:06 PM
Other teams have been together a lot longer than us. They have a better understanding of their system, each others abilities and basketball i. q., and better team chemistry. Since Colangelo and Coach K came onboard, things have gotten better but, compared to other teams, we still have a ways to go. Until then, we'll have to continue to rely on our talent, speed, and athleticism.

Rivera
08-30-2010, 05:25 PM
I noticed in the FIBA world tournament that teams like (Spain, Argentina, Greece, and Brazil) seem to play awesome team basketball.

The ball movement is excellent, and there is much more of it than team USA displays. Now i'm not saying team USA is selfish, but that other teams are more unselfish.

Why do you think ball movement is much more fluid in foreign teams than in team USA?


Egos, Money, Girls

plus the european teams have been 2gether alot longer than NBA teams which changer there roster yearly it seems



SIG note: the grizz have a great starting 5....only if they had a better PG they could possibly have the best 5

Sir Buckets
08-30-2010, 05:39 PM
Other teams have been together a lot longer than us. They have a better understanding of their system, each others abilities and basketball i. q., and better team chemistry. Since Colangelo and Coach K came onboard, things have gotten better but, compared to other teams, we still have a ways to go. Until then, we'll have to continue to rely on our talent, speed, and athleticism.This x100

Hawkeye15
08-30-2010, 06:01 PM
Other teams have been together a lot longer than us. They have a better understanding of their system, each others abilities and basketball i. q., and better team chemistry. Since Colangelo and Coach K came onboard, things have gotten better but, compared to other teams, we still have a ways to go. Until then, we'll have to continue to rely on our talent, speed, and athleticism.

right on

td0tsfinest
08-30-2010, 06:20 PM
The above posters got it right. Its a mix between playing together for a long time and not having a "high talent" player. Lithuania and Lebanon both showcased some great team ball in their games against Canada. Its what eventually lost us the game.

Bishnoff
08-30-2010, 06:52 PM
The International style is far more team biased than the NBA, and is more about great team defense and ball rotation to find an open shooter. Also (as others have posted) the chemistry is far better since these guys play together more frequently.

I disagree about the talent argument. Although the USA has more individually gifted players, this is not why other International teams choose to run less iso’s or rely on one or two players to provide all the scoring.

NYKalltheway
08-30-2010, 06:57 PM
Not just they play together more frequently, they were brought up together ;)

Oefarmy2005
08-30-2010, 06:58 PM
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Team USA has two stars, imo, Durant and Rose. Most other players are above average, but not buy much. Also, Spain definitely has a couple of NBA level star players on their roster and still play much better team game. All those arguments about the time together are bull. The USA basketball is just a different brand all together. It's centered on athleticism, showmanship and 1on1 off the dribble one pass offense. Thats how most NBA teams play. The team defense is great for Team USA but as Borat would say "The team offense - not so much."

Oefarmy2005
08-30-2010, 07:01 PM
I also don't get the argument about how they were brought up together. They all play for different teams in the NBA and Europe, and also a lot of USA players played together in highschool, college, all-american and U18-U21 teams together and so on.

Hawkeye15
08-30-2010, 07:10 PM
I also don't get the argument about how they were brought up together. They all play for different teams in the NBA and Europe, and also a lot of USA players played together in highschool, college, all-american and U18-U21 teams together and so on.

many teams have indeed had the same intact lineups mostly, for years. The US mixes and matches every time we do these international competitions, and we only get a few weeks of practice. There is a major difference in chemistry when you play with the same players basically, for year upon year in those rules.
We live off superior talent and athletic ability. Our basketball skills and team work do not win those games.

NYKalltheway
08-30-2010, 07:16 PM
I also don't get the argument about how they were brought up together. They all play for different teams in the NBA and Europe, and also a lot of USA players played together in highschool, college, all-american and U18-U21 teams together and so on.

It does matter and it what makes international games so great.

First of all, each country has its own "recipe". Trademarks. I think you get what I mean.

USA's recipe is to pass the ball to the best guy and hope he can score, or give it to a fast guard and use isolation so he can drive to the basket. Not interesting to me, but seems like over 25 out of 30 teams play like that in the NBA.

Greece's recipe is strong team defense with calculated passes until some guy is free. Everyone is able to shoot threes. Main problem is the new coach who is all about offense so it's like a team with no identity so far

Spain is a country that plays fast passing game that usually ends up in a three point attempt.

French rely on their athleticism.

Italian game is fluent, similar to the Spanish, but has some mentality differences

Now as for the players being brought up together and why it's of importance.

Well, players in Europe & South America, are brought up at a young age at their club's youth ranks. They go through each step.
There are also national teams of each level. So the best of the players might be together since U16 tournaments. Style of play rarely changes. It's like playing basketball with people you live with. Play every day with them for 15+ years. You can't honestly believe it does not make a difference...

Whereas the USA players are scrambled all over the place, and never actually play together. I'm unaware of American youth teams, not sure if they do exist...

Much much different mentality.

Also as for the players not being as talented. That barely makes a difference. If the players are more talented, even better. More options to break other teams' defense and use different TEAM OFFENSE METHODS.
Nobody nowadays sacrifices team play for self-exposure. Only a few exceptions out of pure arrogance.
There's no superstardom in the European game. The greatest guard in Europe might share his minutes with a half-decent playmaking guard because the coach wants to play otherwise.
In the NBA you'll never see a superstar being benched because the coach wants to increase the height of the team etc...

You pay to watch 5-6 superstars, we pay to watch 5-6 super teams. (more comparable to NCAA than NBA really)

thekmp211
08-30-2010, 08:48 PM
it is about mentality, though. often times the american players have a great chance at a high percentage look by running an isolation offense. by the same token, there are times when the attack mentality is self-destructive and blocks out the option of the other four guys on the court. i think the european teams are more settled into team roles and team consistency.

with that said, let's not take away from the brazilian performance. you rarely see passing and chemistry like that in the nba. there are lessons to be learned from watching that kind of teamwork.

FOBolous
08-30-2010, 08:54 PM
I hope NBA teams are watching the FIBA world championships because the international games prove team play > loading up on talent. international games prove that teams with tons of talent like the Lakers and the Heat can be beaten if a team allows themselves to be coached and play well enough with each other. GO TEAMWORK!!! :p

thekmp211
08-30-2010, 09:09 PM
I hope NBA teams are watching the FIBA world championships because the international games prove team play > loading up on talent. international games prove that teams with tons of talent like the Lakers and the Heat can be beaten if a team allows themselves to be coached and play well enough with each other. GO TEAMWORK!!! :p

well, there are teams that play really well as a team in the nba. the celtics, in my opinion, at this point are more the product of an incredibly effective and flexible system on both sides of the ball. the individual components, while great in their careers and still individually, are less than the sum.

the lakers play very well as a team. kobe has struck the comfortable balance of gunning and deferring and the triangle is an equal opportunity employer for role players.

the suns and the magic are two other teams that come to mind in regards to great team chemistry. maybe the warriors. for the most part, though, it is basic p&r and iso offense.

Chronz
08-30-2010, 09:13 PM
Two Words

True Zone

that and the shorter 3pt Line

daleja424
08-30-2010, 09:25 PM
combination of two things

1. US guys play together a couple weeks a year...at most... and the team is different every go round

2. US players are used to being primary guys on their team for the most part

Hindy27
08-30-2010, 09:34 PM
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Team USA has two stars, imo, Durant and Rose. Most other players are above average, but not buy much. Also, Spain definitely has a couple of NBA level star players on their roster and still play much better team game. All those arguments about the time together are bull. The USA basketball is just a different brand all together. It's centered on athleticism, showmanship and 1on1 off the dribble one pass offense. Thats how most NBA teams play. The team defense is great for Team USA but as Borat would say "The team offense - not so much."
Agreed.
Most basketball leagues/teams/countries play a team game, the NBA is different. As someone else said, international bball is closer to NCAA than NBA.


I also don't get the argument about how they were brought up together. They all play for different teams in the NBA and Europe, and also a lot of USA players played together in highschool, college, all-american and U18-U21 teams together and so on.
It's not an argument, it's an excuse.
As you said they haven't all been playing together for years and they are actually more spread out around the world than the US players are. Look at my Aussie team, most of them are spread around Europe, a couple in US and 1 or 2 in Australia. They had to come back here for pre tournament training, which was for only a few weeks, just like the US team. The US team didn't have to fly to the other side of the world to train together.


many teams have indeed had the same intact lineups mostly, for years. The US mixes and matches every time we do these international competitions, and we only get a few weeks of practice. There is a major difference in chemistry when you play with the same players basically, for year upon year in those rules.
We live off superior talent and athletic ability. Our basketball skills and team work do not win those games.
The teams look like they stay intact because they only change a few players between tournaments, the teams are still always changing though, just slowly. That's the way it should be, a natural evolution of the team.
The US team has massive changes because the US players only seem to care about the Olympics. You normally get your best team available for the Olympics, but then most of those players couldn't be bothered for other tournaments, so you have to send a B team.

Bishnoff
08-30-2010, 09:45 PM
Two Words

True Zone

that and the shorter 3pt Line


combination of two things

1. US guys play together a couple weeks a year...at most... and the team is different every go round

2. US players are used to being primary guys on their team for the most part

All good points.

Bishnoff
08-30-2010, 09:55 PM
well, there are teams that play really well as a team in the nba. the celtics, in my opinion, at this point are more the product of an incredibly effective and flexible system on both sides of the ball. the individual components, while great in their careers and still individually, are less than the sum.

the lakers play very well as a team. kobe has struck the comfortable balance of gunning and deferring and the triangle is an equal opportunity employer for role players.

the suns and the magic are two other teams that come to mind in regards to great team chemistry. maybe the warriors. for the most part, though, it is basic p&r and iso offense.

I've gotta agree with all these points, except maybe the Warriors example.

thekmp211
08-30-2010, 10:01 PM
I've gotta agree with all these points, except maybe the Warriors example.


yeah, it was a stretch.

Hawkeye15
08-30-2010, 10:04 PM
Agreed.
Most basketball leagues/teams/countries play a team game, the NBA is different. As someone else said, international bball is closer to NCAA than NBA.


It's not an argument, it's an excuse.
As you said they haven't all been playing together for years and they are actually more spread out around the world than the US players are. Look at my Aussie team, most of them are spread around Europe, a couple in US and 1 or 2 in Australia. They had to come back here for pre tournament training, which was for only a few weeks, just like the US team. The US team didn't have to fly to the other side of the world to train together.


The teams look like they stay intact because they only change a few players between tournaments, the teams are still always changing though, just slowly. That's the way it should be, a natural evolution of the team.
The US team has massive changes because the US players only seem to care about the Olympics. You normally get your best team available for the Olympics, but then most of those players couldn't be bothered for other tournaments, so you have to send a B team.
then the excuses come from the short line for threes, and being able to pack it in and play zone
But we should not pretend that team chemistry means nothing here

ink
08-30-2010, 10:14 PM
The International style is far more team biased than the NBA, and is more about great team defense and ball rotation to find an open shooter. Also (as others have posted) the chemistry is far better since these guys play together more frequently.

I disagree about the talent argument. Although the USA has more individually gifted players, this is not why other International teams choose to run less iso’s or rely on one or two players to provide all the scoring.

I agree. What they might have said is that there is better balanced talent on International teams. In the NBA often you have one star who dominates and the entire team is shaped around ISO's to that player. Sometimes that can be a huge failure (i.e. Bosh on the Raptors) and other times it can lead to a dynasty (MJ's Bulls). Since very few "international" teams have an MJ handy, they balance their talent and play a ball movement game so that they can threaten from anywhere on the court. I prefer the ball movement game myself.

And btw, there have been some extremely successful NBA teams who play a ball movement game: the Spurs and the Celtics come to mind.

BkOriginalOne
08-30-2010, 10:16 PM
They've been playing for years together and they don't really have isolation type players to just run plays for.
They have to play team ball to have a chance at winning.

Hindy27
08-31-2010, 01:21 AM
then the excuses come from the short line for threes, and being able to pack it in and play zone
But we should not pretend that team chemistry means nothing here
3 point line and zone are obstacles that should be easily overcome by the best players in the world.

Chemistry is different though.
The other teams have better chemistry because the US players will pick and choose when they feel like representing their country, other players from around the world will nearly always play for their country if picked.
So it's not like other teams have super great chemistry, it's just that the US makes more changes to their team, so their chemistry isn't as good.
So while there is a chemistry difference it's all the US's own doing, so it shouldn't be used as an excuse. If the US picked their best players every time and those players made themselves available, then you'd build up some decent chemistry.


They've been playing for years together and they don't really have isolation type players to just run plays for.
They have to play team ball to have a chance at winning.
The playing together for years thing is a furphy, as I said it's just the US that does things differently.
Other teams will pick the best players available each time. So their good players might stick around together for a while, but there is always an evolution of the team, as younger guys get better and take spots of the older guys.
The US doesn't have that, they chop and change depending on who feels like playing, so the players don't build up the same chemistry.

They don't need to run isolation plays, that's not how to play international ball.
Also, a champion team will beat a team of champions.

That's not saying the US will get beat though, they could smash teams if they get on a roll in games. If they get bogged down in a slowed up team game though, they will get beat.

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 01:25 AM
I hope NBA teams are watching the FIBA world championships because the international games prove team play > loading up on talent. international games prove that teams with tons of talent like the Lakers and the Heat can be beaten if a team allows themselves to be coached and play well enough with each other. GO TEAMWORK!!! :p

A healthy Lakers squad (with Gasol) would romp through this tournament with an average margain of victory greater than 20 points per game.

FOBolous
08-31-2010, 01:46 AM
A healthy Lakers squad (with Gasol) would romp through this tournament with an average margain of victory greater than 20 points per game.

I disagree. I think teams like Spain, Brazil, Greece, and Argentina can easily beat the Lakers considering the fact that these teams give Team USA, which has A LOT more talent than the Lakers, a run for their money on a consistent basis.

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 01:51 AM
I disagree. I think teams like Spain, Brazil, Greece, and Argentina can easily beat the Lakers considering the fact that these teams give Team USA, which has A LOT more talent than the Lakers, a run for their money on a consistent basis.

Most of the Lakers roster has played together for years, running the same system, under the same coach. The Lakers are loaded with veterans that make few mistakes and many good decisions.

America has put together a roster with one player that has international experience. The game is completely different and takes time to adjust to. Meanwhile, the competition's rosters are filled exclusively with players that have played the International style and many of those rosters have been playing together in the same system for years.

If any of those countries would like to try their luck against the Lakers playing under the NBA's rules, I would watch.

Hellcrooner
08-31-2010, 02:48 AM
Because if lakers were an euroleague team plaign euroleague under an euro coach.

KObe gets 14 ppg Pau gets 14 ppg, Bynum gets 12 ppg, odom gets 9 ppg artest gets 9 ppg etc.

They also lplay like 22 minutes ecch with CONTINUOUS rotations where there IS NOT a "dirst unit" and a "second unite" instead the starters go resting in turns , therye is barely ever any moment where ate least 3 of the starters arent playing and there is barely any time the 5 starters play togheter.

You play AS A TEAM , look for who is open, look for who is haveing a good night to give him the ball etc.

In fiba you DONT RUN PLAYS for your "star" and when teh last possesion comes, you DONT look for your "star" look for the man with the best chance to score.

Nba = I ; as in MJ won 6 rings Leading the Bulls

Fiba = WE. As , The Bulls Won 6 rings in the ninenties when Jordan PLAYED ]for them

thats how things are.

Hellcrooner
08-31-2010, 02:53 AM
Most of the Lakers roster has played together for years, running the same system, under the same coach. The Lakers are loaded with veterans that make few mistakes and many good decisions.

America has put together a roster with one player that has international experience. The game is completely different and takes time to adjust to. Meanwhile, the competition's rosters are filled exclusively with players that have played the International style and many of those rosters have been playing together in the same system for years.

If any of those countries would like to try their luck against the Lakers playing under the NBA's rules, I would watch.

lets see if nba champions lakers are able to beat euroleague champions barcelona in october first.

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 03:13 AM
lets see if nba champions lakers are able to beat euroleague champions barcelona in october first.

That's not in America.

Will that be under NBA or FIBA rules?

Will the Lakers play their best players normal minutes?

hornetsfansydne
08-31-2010, 04:18 AM
I personally believe because the other teams lack the talent that the US has, so they have to have more ball movement than isolation plays.

It's not a lack of talent that the other teams have, it's the way the majority of the players play baskbetall. If you watch a Euroleague game its more about the team than the individual. Whereas if you watch the NBA its more about run an iso play and give the ball it your best player.

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 08:40 AM
That's not in America.

Will that be under NBA or FIBA rules?

Will the Lakers play their best players normal minutes?

Mixed rules... awkward for both teams

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 08:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFyP7G5__KQ

I think this is the purest example of Euroleague play.

2007 Euroleague final four. By watching the first play you understand the major difference with the NBA

And also here's the Greek finals(last game of 2008-9) which I enjoyed much more than the 6 first games of the NBA playoffs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsX97RJqO3g

save the knicks
08-31-2010, 09:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFyP7G5__KQ

I think this is the purest example of Euroleague play.

2007 Euroleague final four. By watching the first play you understand the major difference with the NBA

And also here's the Greek finals(last game of 2008-9) which I enjoyed much more than the 6 first games of the NBA playoffs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsX97RJqO3g

I see what you're saying on that first play. No way Kobe or Durrant passes up a wide open shot that close for a 3 pointer

I am wondering though what is Euro avg for 3pt% and attempts? Seems like a lot less of a gamble than an NBA three.

I really think the two styles are completely related to the the different rules.

Imagine what the NBA would look like if Shaq or Yao could just stand under the hoop and not worry about goal tending?

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 10:38 AM
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/eurobasketball/euroleague/players/10/alex_acker/stats/1

Enjoy yourself :)

Just change the player on the top of the page and you'll have everyone there ;)
The first player is a bad example, but he's alphabetically the first.

Also check the team stats if you are unfamiliar with the players, much better that way. I think you can also navigate in the teams' stats as well, so you can see top performers from each team

Chronz
08-31-2010, 11:56 AM
Because if lakers were an euroleague team plaign euroleague under an euro coach.

KObe gets 14 ppg Pau gets 14 ppg, Bynum gets 12 ppg, odom gets 9 ppg artest gets 9 ppg etc.

They also lplay like 22 minutes ecch with CONTINUOUS rotations where there IS NOT a "dirst unit" and a "second unite" instead the starters go resting in turns , therye is barely ever any moment where ate least 3 of the starters arent playing and there is barely any time the 5 starters play togheter.

You play AS A TEAM , look for who is open, look for who is haveing a good night to give him the ball etc.

In fiba you DONT RUN PLAYS for your "star" and when teh last possesion comes, you DONT look for your "star" look for the man with the best chance to score.

Nba = I ; as in MJ won 6 rings Leading the Bulls

Fiba = WE. As , The Bulls Won 6 rings in the ninenties when Jordan PLAYED ]for them

thats how things are.

Your forgetting the part where the Bulls wouldnt win 6 rings playing as a team by FIBA definition

Hellcrooner
08-31-2010, 12:13 PM
Your forgetting the part where the Bulls wouldnt win 6 rings playing as a team by FIBA definition

i was talking as how europeans aproach , understand the game.

I could ahve used ACCURATE definitions using European team instead of bulls as example.

But i guess people will tell WTF isf i make any kind of Yougoplastika reference.:D

Chronz
08-31-2010, 01:34 PM
i was talking as how europeans aproach , understand the game.

I could ahve used ACCURATE definitions using European team instead of bulls as example.

But i guess people will tell WTF isf i make any kind of Yougoplastika reference.:D
I know I know. You dont see 10-12 man rotations here in the NBA but I doubt Euro coaches would limit Kobe or Bron to those minutes if they were on the team.

And looking back the last 10-12 man team to significantly limit their best players MPG was the GRIZZ. I remember alot of credit being given to Hubie and the players for buying into the system. I wonder how much of that had to do with Gasols upbringing and team first mentality. Still I didnt like that they didnt play Pau the entire game, do you think the Grizz were better by playing Pau less?

Hellcrooner
08-31-2010, 02:20 PM
I know I know. You dont see 10-12 man rotations here in the NBA but I doubt Euro coaches would limit Kobe or Bron to those minutes if they were on the team.

And looking back the last 10-12 man team to significantly limit their best players MPG was the GRIZZ. I remember alot of credit being given to Hubie and the players for buying into the system. I wonder how much of that had to do with Gasols upbringing and team first mentality. Still I didnt like that they didnt play Pau the entire game, do you think the Grizz were better by playing Pau less?

As a team i CaNT blame hubbie for doing so.
I mean as a gasol fan i obvioulsy woudl have prefered that he was played more and used more in a "american Way" giving hi a lot more touches so he coul d score 25 a game and build his reputation.

But given the UNDER PAR talent the team had, team play was the god choice to go.

Knowledge
08-31-2010, 02:50 PM
I kinda look at FIBA as similar to college basketball where the rules are set up to help less athletic and even less talented players succeed(with the way they allow you to use zone and play more physical defense).

If FIBA competitions were played under NBA rules, I have no doubt that we would run through any Euro team easily. Not to say that Euro leagues have no talent because they do, but because the game is more physical(which sometimes makes it very sloppy), the 3pt line is closer in,and the way they can play zone it allows teams to make up for any athletic mismatches.

We prepare our players to play NBA basketball over here and then make them adjust to playing FIBA basekball. Meanwhile the rest of the world grows up playing FIBA basketball and if they show the abilities necessary to play in the NBA they are given a chance to play in the NBA.

ChiSox219
08-31-2010, 02:52 PM
I kinda look at FIBA as similar to college basketball where the rules are set up to help less athletic and even less talented players succeed(with the way they allow you to use zone and play more physical defense).

If FIBA competitions were played under NBA rules, I have no doubt that we would run through any Euro team easily. Not to say that Euro leagues have no talent because they do, but because the game is more physical(which sometimes makes it very sloppy), the 3pt line is closer in,and the way they can play zone it allows teams to make up for any athletic mismatches.

We prepare our players to play NBA basketball over here and then make them adjust to playing FIBA basekball. Meanwhile the rest of the world grows up playing FIBA basketball and if they show the abilities necessary to play in the NBA they are given a chance to play in the NBA.

Knowledge.

:clap:

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 03:59 PM
Because if lakers were an euroleague team plaign euroleague under an euro coach.

KObe gets 14 ppg Pau gets 14 ppg, Bynum gets 12 ppg, odom gets 9 ppg artest gets 9 ppg etc.

They also lplay like 22 minutes ecch with CONTINUOUS rotations where there IS NOT a "dirst unit" and a "second unite" instead the starters go resting in turns , therye is barely ever any moment where ate least 3 of the starters arent playing and there is barely any time the 5 starters play togheter.

You play AS A TEAM , look for who is open, look for who is haveing a good night to give him the ball etc.

In fiba you DONT RUN PLAYS for your "star" and when teh last possesion comes, you DONT look for your "star" look for the man with the best chance to score.

Nba = I ; as in MJ won 6 rings Leading the Bulls

Fiba = WE. As , The Bulls Won 6 rings in the ninenties when Jordan PLAYED ]for them

thats how things are.

That's not good team play, that's **** coaching. Only a coach that's a moron can't develop proper substitution patterns to maximize the minutes for the best players.

Reyes6
08-31-2010, 04:01 PM
Can you goaltend in this tournament? I know they said once that goaltending wasn't a violation in international play.

But if it isn't illegal then our paint should be Howard and KG every year until they both retire.

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 04:06 PM
Goaltending is illegal lol :D
You are allowed to touch the ball while it's on the rim though, unless it's falling in.

Also, not sure if it exists in the NBA, but if someone touches the net, it's 2 points for the attacking team.

SteveNash, bad coaching = have players on the bench that serve no purpose in the game

good coaching= using every player, each to his limit

great coaching= using most players possible, for the greater time possible

NBA usually is under bad coaching. Not sure what kind of basketball you prefer.

Also great coaching includes continuous team play changes, both in defense and offense.

In the NBA all I see is isolation 1 on 1, a go-to guy that makes the shots and passing game is rare (Spurs, Celtics, Lakers.. any other?)
Even the Knicks who have a "European" coach (which is not true) play an NBA-esque game.

NBA rules restrict ball movement really as it's easier to go 1 on 1 and finish with a dunk/lay up... Doesn't seem much like a team sport to me

Hellcrooner
08-31-2010, 04:10 PM
That's not good team play, that's **** coaching. Only a coach that's a moron can't develop proper substitution patterns to maximize the minutes for the best players.

only a moron coach allows one player who is on a cold strak to shoot 30 shots in a game even if he is only doint 20% of them and shooting the team out of the gme .


:D

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 04:12 PM
FIBA Coaching=Special Olympics coaching where everyone gets to participate and everyone is considered a "winner"

NBA Coaching=True strategy, adjustments on the fly instead of sticking to set subs.

NBA has more 1 on 1 play because it's easier to play one on one when you can beat your man of the dribble. The harder it is to do that, the more fundamentals you have to learn to succeed.

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 04:13 PM
only a moron coach allows one player who is on a cold strak to shoot 30 shots in a game even if he is only doint 20% of them and shooting the team out of the gme .


:D

Only a moron would take a player out on a hot streak just because he has set subs.

Da Knicks
08-31-2010, 04:18 PM
only a moron coach allows one player who is on a cold strak to shoot 30 shots in a game even if he is only doint 20% of them and shooting the team out of the gme .


:D

Phil Jackson is a moron?:confused:

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 04:19 PM
NOBODY HAS SET SUBS ffs!!!!

Also, 1 on 1 is easier?

Lol why can't Durant (top 3-5 NBA player) succeed with it now?? Maybe because it's 1 on 5 on REAL BASKETBALL?

You must be blind if you think that there's no coaching and that everyone plays just because he has to.

Everybody DESERVES to be on the court, unlike the NBA where only 2-3 players deserve to be on the court.

There are 50 different offense systems used every year by every team and there are over 20 different defense systems used every year by every team, just because basketball over here is like CHESS. And every player is 'queen" with some "towers", where 'queen'=all around and 'tower' = shooters... some teams have weaknesses, "kings", if he's out it's like game over (see current Lithuania with Linas Kleiza in the 'king' role)

Watch 1 month of Euroleague basketball, and you'll think the NBA is streetball

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 04:27 PM
NOBODY HAS SET SUBS ffs!!!!

Also, 1 on 1 is easier?

Lol why can't Durant (top 3-5 NBA player) succeed with it now?? Maybe because it's 1 on 5 on REAL BASKETBALL?

You must be blind if you think that there's no coaching and that everyone plays just because he has to.

Everybody DESERVES to be on the court, unlike the NBA where only 2-3 players deserve to be on the court.

There are 50 different offense systems used every year by every team and there are over 20 different defense systems used every year by every team, just because basketball over here is like CHESS. And every player is 'queen" with some "towers", where 'queen'=all around and 'tower' = shooters... some teams have weaknesses, "kings", if he's out it's like game over (see current Lithuania with Linas Kleiza in the 'king' role)

Watch 1 month of Euroleague basketball, and you'll think the NBA is streetball

Euroleague has a much more rigid sub pattern compared to the NBA.

Durant isn't the greatest 1 on 1 player in the NBA so I don't know what you're trying to get at there.

All I'm saying is that you should maximize your talent instead of subbing in because players "deserve" it. Players don't deserve playing time anyway, they should earn it.

And all I got out of your little chess analogy was that there are a bunch of queens in Euroleague play.

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 04:31 PM
you really are not worth my time

I'll let Josh Childress answer to you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLcGGw6klPQ

MTLGW
08-31-2010, 04:56 PM
team basketball is overrated........u still need that 1 or 2 superstars that could get you through the critical few minutes in the fourth quarter.......usually team ball players mentally crack in the critical few minutes of the fourth quarter....also too much passing doesn't work in the critical late quarters because the defense tend to tighten up.

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 04:59 PM
you really are not worth my time

I'll let Josh Childress answer to you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLcGGw6klPQ

What does that video prove exactly? I thought we were talking about coaching.

As for his points:

1. Everything is done as a team because teams and players are poorer and can't afford the luxuries of the NBA.

2. Euroleague has fewer games plus more championships to win. No one cares about winning conferences in the NBA and that goes back to the Special Olympics treatment for European teams.

3. Childress is an idiot that can't scout players and is shocked when some of them can play at a level he can play at i.e. sixth man in the NBA.

4. Europeans are crazy.

5. Josh Childress has to worry about paparazzi in Europe but didn't have to in Atlanta because he was a scrub who no one cared about.

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 05:12 PM
First of all, Josh Childress pretty much sucked over here :D
People liked him for his hair.


You really don't understand how coaching works do you?

When an NBA coach has Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Wade etc, he doesn't need to pull some magic. He just leaves him there and he'll get it done.
Is that coaching for you? Telling the other players to attract their man markers to the perimeter so that the star player can go one on one, is coaching? That's prep school level coaching. See in prep school, there's usually 1-2 kids that are good. So they are the ones that actually play and the rest just watch usually. That's what I'm seeing with these superstar treatment. It's set so that they can be gods while the rest are considered scrubs or "role" players...

Players are poorer? How exactly? Less talented? Sorry they don't do steroids and jump 7ft high... There are actually weekly anti-drug tests to most players over here you know, unlike once every 2 years like the NBA, and players here don't even know that they'll be tested, unlike the NBA (barring rookie year) when they actually have an anti-drug appointment :rolleyes:

And yes, Europeans are crazy. You see players prefer to play for passionate fans rather than fans who sit for 48 minutes until a slam dunk is scored...

There's a myth that the NBA is the player's paradise, but that died 10 years ago. Most players who go to the NBA are either the current early 20 year olds who were the last to have this dream, since the new young players have domestic role models these days. And other players that go to the NBA are usually those that never cut it over here to top teams. They prefer to go to the NBA where a new opportunity may rise.


And last time I checked, USA has lost quite a few times in the last 10 years to other teams... Yugoslavia(before the official name change but after the split), Puerto Rico, Argentina, Lithuania, Greece... Brazil and Spain almost beat them, Lithuania almost beat them again back in 2000.
you just have to grow up and accept the fact that the Americans are beatable. There's no Dream Team anymore.

As for coaching, ask Gregg Popovich who the best coach in the WORLD is... He'll say it's the coach of team from my signature because Popovich knows the real game unlike some other NBA coaches. (Larry Brown etc)

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 05:39 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=whittelloneuroleague

Here's also a good read

save the knicks
08-31-2010, 05:49 PM
\
Players are poorer? How exactly? Less talented? Sorry they don't do steroids and jump 7ft high... There are actually weekly anti-drug tests to most players over here you know, unlike once every 2 years like the NBA, and players here don't even know that they'll be tested, unlike the NBA (barring rookie year) when they actually have an anti-drug appointment :rolleyes:
\

So because we dont drug test it means that everyone is on roids?

This is a fallacy:facepalm:

Europeans having a problem with "cheating" even though they allow coaches and players to bet on league matches is pretty funny if you ask me.

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 05:59 PM
I agree, some games are rigged in Europe and it's bad

When there's no control, usually people 'break the law', don't you think? I;m not saying everyone does it, but it's something that's probably not rare.

save the knicks
08-31-2010, 06:08 PM
When there's no control, usually people 'break the law', don't you think?.

That is exactly what your socialist overlords want you to think :rolleyes:

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 06:08 PM
First of all, Josh Childress pretty much sucked over here :D
People liked him for his hair.

Josh Childress was the best player in Greece last year.

You really don't understand how coaching works do you?[/QUOTE]

"When an NBA coach has Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Wade etc, he doesn't need to pull some magic. He just leaves him there and he'll get it done.
Is that coaching for you? Telling the other players to attract their man markers to the perimeter so that the star player can go one on one, is coaching? That's prep school level coaching. See in prep school, there's usually 1-2 kids that are good. So they are the ones that actually play and the rest just watch usually. That's what I'm seeing with these superstar treatment. It's set so that they can be gods while the rest are considered scrubs or "role" players... "

Way to prove that you have a complete understanding of coaching. Most NBA coaches don't rely on their best players to handle everything and the ones that do fail.


Players are poorer? How exactly? Less talented? Sorry they don't do steroids and jump 7ft high... There are actually weekly anti-drug tests to most players over here you know, unlike once every 2 years like the NBA, and players here don't even know that they'll be tested, unlike the NBA (barring rookie year) when they actually have an anti-drug appointment :rolleyes:

Players learn less income is what I meant when I said poorer. It's a given fact that Euroleague has less talented players and anyone trying to argue otherwise is a joke. :rolleyes:


And yes, Europeans are crazy. You see players prefer to play for passionate fans rather than fans who sit for 48 minutes until a slam dunk is scored...

If the NBA wanted crazy fans they could by relaxing security and reducing ticket prices.


There's a myth that the NBA is the player's paradise, but that died 10 years ago. Most players who go to the NBA are either the current early 20 year olds who were the last to have this dream, since the new young players have domestic role models these days. And other players that go to the NBA are usually those that never cut it over here to top teams. They prefer to go to the NBA where a new opportunity may rise.

I don't know what point you're trying to make so all I'll say is Trajan Langdon.


And last time I checked, USA has lost quite a few times in the last 10 years to other teams... Yugoslavia(before the official name change but after the split), Puerto Rico, Argentina, Lithuania, Greece... Brazil and Spain almost beat them, Lithuania almost beat them again back in 2000.
you just have to grow up and accept the fact that the Americans are beatable. There's no Dream Team anymore.

Every other national team would love to have to record US has had the past 10 years.


As for coaching, ask Gregg Popovich who the best coach in the WORLD is... He'll say it's the coach of team from my signature because Popovich knows the real game unlike some other NBA coaches. (Larry Brown etc)

Everyone here knows that PAO is a garbage team compared to the NBA and would struggle to even win the NCAA tournament. Obradovic may be the best coach in Europe but he is nothing in the NBA.

NYKalltheway
08-31-2010, 06:18 PM
Man, I live in Greece, I don't miss any matchday in Greece, Josh Childress was utter crap. He was only good against the weakest teams. Childress was actually the player we mocked the most people he couldn't shoot even if his life depended on it, and when he did score a 3 pointer, there would be fireworks!

Also you are going very off topic with your nonsense so I'll stop here.
I'm pretty sure "everyone here" does not even know what PAO is ;)
That doesn't mean anything, you guys didn't even know Sabonis but he was dominant over here even with gashed up knees in his last professional years. There probably are a few players in the Chinese league that neither of us know, does that mean they're garbage?

Hellcrooner
08-31-2010, 07:04 PM
Man, I live in Greece, I don't miss any matchday in Greece, Josh Childress was utter crap. He was only good against the weakest teams. Childress was actually the player we mocked the most people he couldn't shoot even if his life depended on it, and when he did score a 3 pointer, there would be fireworks!

Also you are going very off topic with your nonsense so I'll stop here.
I'm pretty sure "everyone here" does not even know what PAO is ;)
That doesn't mean anything, you guys didn't even know Sabonis but he was dominant over here even with gashed up knees in his last professional years. There probably are a few players in the Chinese league that neither of us know, does that mean they're garbage?

DOnt lose your time with Stevenash.

SteveNash
08-31-2010, 10:44 PM
Man, I live in Greece, I don't miss any matchday in Greece, Josh Childress was utter crap. He was only good against the weakest teams. Childress was actually the player we mocked the most people he couldn't shoot even if his life depended on it, and when he did score a 3 pointer, there would be fireworks!

Also you are going very off topic with your nonsense so I'll stop here.
I'm pretty sure "everyone here" does not even know what PAO is ;)
That doesn't mean anything, you guys didn't even know Sabonis but he was dominant over here even with gashed up knees in his last professional years. There probably are a few players in the Chinese league that neither of us know, does that mean they're garbage?

Childress didn't have a good first year, I am talking about his second year. He is the glue guy that will win you games. Based on your standards, do you think Dimitris Diamantidis sucks? And unfortunately for Childress he had to play for that idiot Giannakis, if Childress stayed one more year under Ivkovic they would have dominated.