PDA

View Full Version : Heats Bench Vs. Lakers Bench



kswissdaf
08-28-2010, 05:01 PM
One arugment i always here people say when comparing the Heat to Lakers is when they say the Lakers have more depth and i don't understand hows that is true at 6th man mike miller vs Lamar Odom I think most people would agree that Mike miller is better. Back up guards lakers have an advantage Brown, Blake vs Arroyo, Eddie House. But our back up big man our so much better Haslem Big Z Vs. Dj Mebenga and Josh Powell. Unless im forgetting someone
I would say the heat have a better bench

stejay
08-28-2010, 05:05 PM
One arugment i always here people say when comparing the Heat to Lakers is when they say the Lakers have more depth and i don't understand hows that is true at 6th man mike miller vs Lamar Odom I think most people would agree that Mike miller is better. Back up guards lakers have an advantage Brown, Blake vs Arroyo, Eddie House. But our back up big man our so much better Haslem Big Z Vs. Dj Mebenga and Josh Powell. Unless im forgetting someone
I would say the heat have a better bench

PG- Lakers
SG- Lakers
SF- Heat
PF- Lakers
C- Heat

Blake is better than Arroyo, even though I like Arroyos style of play. Brown and Sasha are better than House, Walton and Barnes arent as good as Miller, Odom is better than Haslem, and Big Z is about the same as Ratliff and Mbenga, if not Big Z having a slight advantage. Odom is gonna be more of a PF this year, IMO.

daleja424
08-28-2010, 05:07 PM
I agree man, but people have heard for so long that the Lakers are sooo deep that they don't even stop to look at who is actually on the team. People just automatically think the Lakers have a great bench and Miami's must be horrible. But honestly, Miami and LA have a very comparable bench, and in fact Miami's may be even better. Lamar and Udonis is a wash IMO, Id take Miller over Matt Barnes every time, Blake is better then Arroyo, but not by much, rather have Eddie House than Brown or Sasha, and Id rather have Z than Theo. The Lakers have a good bench, but people that are under the illusion that it gives them an advantage over Miami are not thinking it through.

daleja424
08-28-2010, 05:09 PM
PG- Lakers
SG- Lakers
SF- Heat
PF- Lakers
C- Heat

Blake is better than Arroyo, even though I like Arroyos style of play. Brown and Sasha are better than House, Walton and Barnes arent as good as Miller, Odom is better than Haslem, and Big Z is about the same as Ratliff and Mbenga, if not Big Z having a slight advantage. Odom is gonna be more of a PF this year, IMO.

Really dude?

Udonis and Lamar is a wash
Arroyo and Blake is VERY close
Big Z over Theo
Miller over Barnes/Walton
House over Brown and Sasha

kswissdaf
08-28-2010, 05:09 PM
PG- Lakers
SG- Lakers
SF- Heat
PF- Lakers
C- Heat

Blake is better than Arroyo, even though I like Arroyos style of play. Brown and Sasha are better than House, Walton and Barnes arent as good as Miller, Odom is better than Haslem, and Big Z is about the same as Ratliff and Mbenga, if not Big Z having a slight advantage. Odom is gonna be more of a PF this year, IMO.

Bro sry but you are suffering from crazy homer biases. Ya i could fix it like that to
Pg-Lakers
Sg-Heat mike miller plays Sg
Sf-Lakers odom
PF-Heat -haslem
C-heat Big z

Avenged
08-28-2010, 05:09 PM
One arugment i always here people say when comparing the Heat to Lakers is when they say the Lakers have more depth and i don't understand hows that is true at 6th man mike miller vs Lamar Odom I think most people would agree that Mike miller is better. Back up guards lakers have an advantage Brown, Blake vs Arroyo, Eddie House. But our back up big man our so much better Haslem Big Z Vs. Dj Mebenga and Josh Powell. Unless im forgetting someone
I would say the heat have a better bench

Lamar is better than Miller in perhaps everything besides shooting. Lamar is so damn versatile. (They don't even play the same position anyways)

The guards, it's the Lakers although the advantage isn't really that great (but we do have perfect complimentary guards for the triangle).

And it's no secret the Lakers have the most length in the league. But you have a case and point in Big Z, he'll be perfect for the Heat since he has a good mid range for a big.

kswissdaf
08-28-2010, 05:13 PM
I agree man, but people have heard for so long that the Lakers are sooo deep that they don't even stop to look at who is actually on the team. People just automatically think the Lakers have a great bench and Miami's must be horrible. But honestly, Miami and LA have a very comparable bench, and in fact Miami's may be even better. Lamar and Udonis is a wash IMO, Id take Miller over Matt Barnes every time, Blake is better then Arroyo, but not by much, rather have Eddie House than Brown or Sasha, and Id rather have Z than Theo. The Lakers have a good bench, but people that are under the illusion that it gives them an advantage over Miami are not thinking it through.

People just can't believe or want to believe along with getting the Big 3 we have really good role players

dc5jdm
08-28-2010, 05:15 PM
Haslem and Odom is not a wash.
Odom takes it.

lakers have a better bench

kswissdaf
08-28-2010, 05:17 PM
Lamar is better than Miller in perhaps everything besides shooting. Lamar is so damn versatile. (They don't even play the same position anyways)

The guards, it's the Lakers although the advantage isn't really that great (but we do have perfect complimentary guards for the triangle).

And it's no secret the Lakers have the most length in the league. But you have a case and point in Big Z, he'll be perfect for the Heat since he has a good mid range for a big.

Ill be willing to say our bench and the lakers bench is almost even but im sorry but bro we have two top 3 players and another at least top 15 player great defensive center and Chalmers who has accomplished so much more then Rondo when the other big 3 came and look at him

stejay
08-28-2010, 05:19 PM
Bro sry but you are suffering from crazy homer biases. Ya i could fix it like that to
Pg-Lakers
Sg-Heat mike miller plays Sg
Sf-Lakers odom
PF-Heat -haslem
C-heat Big z

Considering the official depth charts have Miller as a SF, and Odom as a PF............

Avenged
08-28-2010, 05:21 PM
Ill be willing to say our bench and the lakers bench is almost even but im sorry but bro we have two top 3 players and another at least top 15 player great defensive center and Chalmers who has accomplished so much more then Rondo when the other big 3 came and look at him

We're comparing benches here, not starters.

Both benches are pretty even but the thing is the Lakers have more depth 6-10.

Talent wise it's not that far off but games aren't played or won off of who has the better bench.

When these guys get the call, they need to go out there and produce/player their role.

dc5jdm
08-28-2010, 05:22 PM
the lakers wont really play theo or mbenga at C Gasol or Bynum always stay in.

stejay
08-28-2010, 05:23 PM
Ill be willing to say our bench and the lakers bench is almost even but im sorry but bro we have two top 3 players and another at least top 15 player great defensive center and Chalmers who has accomplished so much more then Rondo when the other big 3 came and look at him

OK, you have the best 3 players, I aint gonna front, but you are wrong everywhere else... We have a top 5 C, not a top 15. That is a serious overreach for an argument there. Chalmers wont be as good as Rondo. Not even MJ, Lebron and Wilt could change that, never mind Wade, Bosh and Lebron. I wish people would stop talking about the top 3. Its such a non argument. You obviously do. Thats like saying Mike Tyson is harder than David Spade. But Wade isnt a top 3 player either....

Bruno
08-28-2010, 05:59 PM
Really dude?

Udonis and Lamar is a wash
Arroyo and Blake is VERY close
Big Z over Theo
Miller over Barnes/Walton
House over Brown and Sasha

You do know Haslem had a PER of 5.2 and a winshare of 0.0 against Boston right? He actually had a negative per 48 minute winshare. It's not a wash, edge Lamar. He nearly tripled him in playoff PER and is the far more versatile player, and the better rebounder.

DeZonia
08-28-2010, 06:00 PM
Ill be willing to say our bench and the lakers bench is almost even but im sorry but bro we have two top 3 players and another at least top 15 player great defensive center and Chalmers who has accomplished so much more then Rondo when the other big 3 came and look at him

Really dude? Comparing Chalmers to Rondo WTFFF! Are you an idiot? WOW this is the biggest homer statement i've seen! How does averaging 7pts 3assist 1 steal making him comparable to Rondo?

If i was a Celtics fan I would take so much offense to this statement. Rondo is debatable one of the best PG in the lg today.

Actually Chalmers and Fisher have around the same stats last season. Which makes Fisher>Chalmers by a Long shot. He has everything Chalmers doesn't have, Leadership,BB IQ,Strength, + the same stats.
You do have 2 of top 3

We have the #1 player (Debatable)
#1 PF (#1 Bigman imo)

Who is your great defensive Center? lol



All you people compare Mike Miller to Odom? How does having one aspect of basketball make him great or comparable to Odom? ALL mike miller can do is Shoot, He has horrible Defense and everything else. Odom can Shoot,Block,Rebound,Handle,Drive.
^^ Mike Miller isn't even close to as good as Lamar Odom, and you heat fans who think different are just trying to make Mike Miller look way better then he actually is.

FWI-Defense is a big part of basketball... You take a bad defender and a Good player can look GREAT.

Matt Barnes will Shut down Mike Miller... Good defense usually beats good offense. (mike miller doesn't create his own shot)

Hopefully Shannon Brown Progresses more, who will guard him on your bench? House, will not be able to guard Shannon Brown.

DeZonia
08-28-2010, 06:05 PM
Really dude?

Udonis and Lamar is a wash
Arroyo and Blake is VERY close
Big Z over Theo
Miller over Barnes/Walton
House over Brown and Sasha

Lamar is way better then Udonis
Arroyo and Blake No clue but I'll agree with your very close assumption
Big Z over Theo I agree - BUT Big Z is so slow and predictable that theo might do a really good job on defense.
Miller over Barnes - No true... Miller only has shot... NO Defense, Barnes can shut Miller down. Therefore making Mike Miller useless.
House<Brown. How the **** do you think House is better then Brown, are you crazy? Brown can drive/shoot and his defense just keeps getting better. House cannot guard brown but brown can guard house.

DeZonia
08-28-2010, 06:07 PM
All you people comparing Lamar to the Heats bench know that Lamar just about averaged a Double double last season right?

daleja424
08-28-2010, 06:56 PM
...so did udonis...

daleja424
08-28-2010, 07:05 PM
You do know Haslem had a PER of 5.2 and a winshare of 0.0 against Boston right? He actually had a negative per 48 minute winshare. It's not a wash, edge Lamar. He nearly tripled him in playoff PER and is the far more versatile player, and the better rebounder.

I love when homers point out some small trivial stat and think they proved something. I don't care that he had a bad series against celtics. Look at the body of work. Both guys average near double doubles (Udonis 9.9 points, 8.1 rebounds in 27.9 minutes, Lamar 10.8 points 9.8 rebounds in 31.5 minutes). Udonis is a more efficient shooter and better FT shooter. And in crunch time, it isnt even close. Per 48 in crunch time Udonis put up 22.7 points on 53% shooting (compared to lamar at 14.6 on 46%) and Udonis has a higher rebounding rate. Udonis contributes every bit as much as lamar. To say otherwise is counter factual.

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 08:13 PM
Ok I officially think Heat fans are getting a bit ahead of themselves.

I have defended your team and player more than most of you guys but I honestly cannot believe the OP actually said that Miller is better than Odom and that most people can agree on that? No one other than Heat fans would agree on that bro. As well as saying Udonis and Odom are a wash? Thats so not true Odom is a better defender, (not by much) scorer, rebounder and lets not even talk about his versatility as a baller handler as compared to Haslem's.

Last season I watched more Heat games than Laker and I can honestly say from what I saw and in comparison Odom was much more valuable to the Lakers success than Haslem was to the Heat's.

With all that being said Lamar is a bit overrated however while Udonis is certainly underrated but honestly he is not as good/valuable as Odom is.

And now to the comment about Arroyo and Blake being "close". That is so far from being accurate it isn't even funny. Steve Blake was largely recognized as one of the major reasons for the Trail Blazers' success in 08-09. He is a tenacious defender who can hold his own defensively against both PGs and SGs, a lethal 3 point shooter if left open, he has good speed is an excellent both hand dribbler and finishes well near the basket. He is better than Arroyo in almost any regard. I was really routing for a PG like him or Hinrich to go to the Heat because as of right now they'd be more valuable to the Heat than any of the PGs on their roster.

As far as other players not yet mentioned its basically in Miami's favor but the Lakers IMO certainly do have a better/ more complimentary bench than the Heat does.

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 08:26 PM
One arugment i always here people say when comparing the Heat to Lakers is when they say the Lakers have more depth and i don't understand hows that is true at 6th man mike miller vs Lamar Odom I think most people would agree that Mike miller is better. Back up guards lakers have an advantage Brown, Blake vs Arroyo, Eddie House. But our back up big man our so much better Haslem Big Z Vs. Dj Mebenga and Josh Powell. Unless im forgetting someone
I would say the heat have a better bench

could you also please before starting a thread get your fact str8 Mbenga and Powell are no longer going to be Lakers.

http://twitter.com/mcten/status/22334654071


According to a source, the Lakers are not interested in re-signing center D.J. Mbenga, despite an internet rumor that says the contrary

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/08/03/josh-powell-brings-depth-championship-experience-to-hawks/


Powell, 26, won back-to-back championships with the Los Angeles Lakers, but he opted to sign last month as a free agent with his hometown Atlanta Hawks, believing it was best for his future.

It certainly wasn't for more money. He signed in Atlanta for the NBA minimum of $1.2 million, which is what he would have received to stay in Los Angeles.

Ratliff and Caracter who are actually upgrades over Mbenga and Powell are their reserves up front and not forgetting Odom who primarily if not exclusively now plays PF.

Avenged
08-28-2010, 08:44 PM
I love when homers point out some small trivial stat and think they proved something. I don't care that he had a bad series against celtics. Look at the body of work. Both guys average near double doubles (Udonis 9.9 points, 8.1 rebounds in 27.9 minutes, Lamar 10.8 points 9.8 rebounds in 31.5 minutes). Udonis is a more efficient shooter and better FT shooter. And in crunch time, it isnt even close. Per 48 in crunch time Udonis put up 22.7 points on 53% shooting (compared to lamar at 14.6 on 46%) and Udonis has a higher rebounding rate. Udonis contributes every bit as much as lamar. To say otherwise is counter factual.

Lamar leads in win shares 7.7 to Haslem's 6.0

In defensive win shares Lamar has 4.9 to Haslem's 3.2

Lamar holds a higher PER. Haslem does have a higher TS% 538 to 533.

Lamar is so versatile and is a magnificent passer. His assists % is at 15.6 to Haslem's 3.9. Odom's rebounds% is at 17.3 compared to Haslem's 17.0.

Both of these guys play very similar so I agree with you but Lamar Odom is slightly better overall.

Baller1
08-28-2010, 09:37 PM
Why is this even being discussed? With the additions of Blake and Barnes, Lakers have one of the top benches in the league. The Heat have put together some nice pieces around the big three, but it doesn't compare to LA's.

The starting lineup on the other hand is going to be a whole different story.

TylerSL
08-28-2010, 10:40 PM
Odom>>>Big Z
(hes much more efficient)
Miller>Barnes
(higher PER, much higher TS%, higher eFG%)
Blake=Arroyo
(Arroyo has more Win Shares, much lower Turnover%, and higher PER. Blake has higher TS%, eFG%, Assist%, and Steal%. I know Blake has 4 things and Arroyo has 3, but PER is the most important stat IMO, and Win Shares are really high up too and Arroyo was higher in both areas)
Haslem>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ratliff
(I had Haslem and Ratliff because they are both big men, Shannon Brown and Haslem wouldnt really be fair because they are completly different. Haslem is wayyyyyy better, the only thing Ratliff beats Haslem in Block%, but other than that Haslem is wayyyyyyyy better.)
House<Brown
(Brown was more efficient, higher TS%, eFG%, and more Win Shares)

overall bench i would say Heat<Lakers, but it very close, people say the Heat have one of the worst benches, and the Lakers have one of the best benches, but they dont even compare them. When you compare their benches it is very close. If you wanna compare overall team its Heat because they have a better starting lineup
PG. Chalmers<Fisher (barely)
SG. Wade>Kobe (ima get crap but Wade passed Kobe 2 years ago)
SF. Lebron>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Artest (not even close, and nobody can stop Lebron)
PF. Bosh<<Gasol (best PF vs. the 5th best PF)
C. Anthony<<<Bynum (when healthy) (Bynum is better when he is healthy and doesnt foul)
I did the bench and its very close so overall team its Heat>Lakers. People who say the Lakers are too deep are wrong, because the Heat are just as deep as the Lakers if you accually stop and compare benches. If the Lakers accually have the best bench in the NBA, then the Heat are Top 5. Saying the Heat have a crappy bench is just an uneducated attemp to down the Heat.

TylerSL
08-28-2010, 10:41 PM
Why is this even being discussed? With the additions of Blake and Barnes, Lakers have one of the top benches in the league. The Heat have put together some nice pieces around the big three, but it doesn't compare to LA's.

The starting lineup on the other hand is going to be a whole different story.

accually, the Heat bench does, I just proved it....

TylerSL
08-28-2010, 10:46 PM
You do know Haslem had a PER of 5.2 and a winshare of 0.0 against Boston right? He actually had a negative per 48 minute winshare. It's not a wash, edge Lamar. He nearly tripled him in playoff PER and is the far more versatile player, and the better rebounder.

ha, barely. Last year Halsem had a TRB% (the % of the time you get a rebound when you are in the game) of 17.0%, and Odom had a TRB% of 17.3%. 17.0% and 17.3% isnt really enough to say Odom is a better rebounder, they are practically equal

TylerSL
08-28-2010, 11:00 PM
Really dude? Comparing Chalmers to Rondo WTFFF! Are you an idiot? WOW this is the biggest homer statement i've seen! How does averaging 7pts 3assist 1 steal making him comparable to Rondo?

If i was a Celtics fan I would take so much offense to this statement. Rondo is debatable one of the best PG in the lg today.

Actually Chalmers and Fisher have around the same stats last season. Which makes Fisher>Chalmers by a Long shot. He has everything Chalmers doesn't have, Leadership,BB IQ,Strength, + the same stats.
You do have 2 of top 3

We have the #1 player (Debatable)
#1 PF (#1 Bigman imo)

Who is your great defensive Center? lol



All you people compare Mike Miller to Odom? How does having one aspect of basketball make him great or comparable to Odom? ALL mike miller can do is Shoot, He has horrible Defense and everything else. Odom can Shoot,Block,Rebound,Handle,Drive.
^^ Mike Miller isn't even close to as good as Lamar Odom, and you heat fans who think different are just trying to make Mike Miller look way better then he actually is.

FWI-Defense is a big part of basketball... You take a bad defender and a Good player can look GREAT.

Matt Barnes will Shut down Mike Miller... Good defense usually beats good offense. (mike miller doesn't create his own shot)

Hopefully Shannon Brown Progresses more, who will guard him on your bench? House, will not be able to guard Shannon Brown.

1. He compared Chalmers to Rondo before KG, and Allen came to Boston. You guys blew that wayy out of proportion.
2. :facepalm: to you thinking Chalmers and Fisher had identical stats, Chalmers has a higher PER, TS%, eFG%, Assist%, Steal%, and USG%. Stats wise its Chalmers>>Fisher, but because of the BB IQ, clutch its Chalmers<Fisher (barely)
3.Rondo is like the 6th best PG, he is not argueably the best......
4.you say defense is a big part of basketball, well Miami had top 5 defense last year, and they brought in Lebron, who is argueably the best defender in the league...
5.If Matt Barnes guards Miller then that will be just one less guy in the paint to stop Lebron and Wade, if he doesnt then Miller will have open 3's all day, and he had the 3rd highest TS% last year and he pure jumpshooter.

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 11:01 PM
Odom>>>Big Z
(hes much more efficient)
Miller>Barnes
(higher PER, much higher TS%, higher eFG%)
Blake=Arroyo
(Arroyo has more Win Shares, much lower Turnover%, and higher PER. Blake has higher TS%, eFG%, Assist%, and Steal%. I know Blake has 4 things and Arroyo has 3, but PER is the most important stat IMO, and Win Shares are really high up too and Arroyo was higher in both areas)
Haslem>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ratliff
(I had Haslem and Ratliff because they are both big men, Shannon Brown and Haslem wouldnt really be fair because they are completly different. Haslem is wayyyyyy better, the only thing Ratliff beats Haslem in Block%, but other than that Haslem is wayyyyyyyy better.)
House<Brown
(Brown was more efficient, higher TS%, eFG%, and more Win Shares)

overall bench i would say Heat<Lakers, but it very close, people say the Heat have one of the worst benches, and the Lakers have one of the best benches, but they dont even compare them. When you compare their benches it is very close. If you wanna compare overall team its Heat because they have a better starting lineup
PG. Chalmers<Fisher (barely)
SG. Wade>Kobe (ima get crap but Wade passed Kobe 2 years ago)
SF. Lebron>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Artest (not even close, and nobody can stop Lebron)
PF. Bosh<<Gasol (best PF vs. the 5th best PF)
C. Anthony<<<Bynum (when healthy) (Bynum is better when he is healthy and doesnt foul)
I did the bench and its very close so overall team its Heat>Lakers. People who say the Lakers are too deep are wrong, because the Heat are just as deep as the Lakers if you accually stop and compare benches. If the Lakers accually have the best bench in the NBA, then the Heat are Top 5. Saying the Heat have a crappy bench is just an uneducated attemp to down the Heat.

WHATTTT!!!! The Heat got Melo.... hot damn this is THE SUPER team. Not to confident with him starting at C however

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 11:03 PM
accually, the Heat bench does, I just proved it....

you proved nothing but your opinion and some statisical references as your basis. I stopped taking you seriously when you matched up Odom and Z. Whats the basis for that because they are both bigs who can make the occasional 3.

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 11:06 PM
I absolutely love it when posters state their OPINION and then use stats that the player/team they are rooting for have good ratings/rankings in completely disregard the pros of the other parties debate and pass what they believe is right as fact. When the truth is they are entirely wrong.

Avenged
08-28-2010, 11:07 PM
Yeah, nothing was really proven aside from individual match-ups. (If they're accurate, i'm really too lazy to check).

Anyways, the Lakers bench is better than the Heat's bench. Depth wise, the Lakers have more to throw at teams. But rotations from 6-7 maybe 8, are a bit equal.

It really depends on how the benches gel collectively, Lamar Odom is practically a starter in this league as well.

TylerSL
08-28-2010, 11:09 PM
Lamar leads in win shares 7.7 to Haslem's 6.0

In defensive win shares Lamar has 4.9 to Haslem's 3.2

Lamar holds a higher PER. Haslem does have a higher TS% 538 to 533.

Lamar is so versatile and is a magnificent passer. His assists % is at 15.6 to Haslem's 3.9. Odom's rebounds% is at 17.3 compared to Haslem's 17.0.

Both of these guys play very similar so I agree with you but Lamar Odom is slightly better overall.

this, I am a Heat fan, but Odom is slightly better than Haslem

p.s. I also think Odom is a better PF than miller is a SF, but they are really uncomparable because they play such different styles

TylerSL
08-28-2010, 11:13 PM
Yeah, nothing was really proven aside from individual match-ups. (If they're accurate, i'm really too lazy to check).

Anyways, the Lakers bench is better than the Heat's bench. Depth wise, the Lakers have more to throw at teams. But rotations from 6-7 maybe 8, are a bit equal.

It really depends on how the benches gel collectively, Lamar Odom is practically a starter in this league as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/, there is the evidence, I got my facts from basketball-reference. How was nothing proven? I went by all the players stats from last year, not individual match-ups....... I did say the Lakers have the better bench, slightly, but they have the better bench

TylerSL
08-28-2010, 11:14 PM
you proved nothing but your opinion and some statisical references as your basis. I stopped taking you seriously when you matched up Odom and Z. Whats the basis for that because they are both bigs who can make the occasional 3.

how did i only prove my oppinion by posting their advanced stats, you can yell something 100 times but it still doesnt make it true....

Avenged
08-28-2010, 11:22 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/, there is the evidence, I got my facts from basketball-reference. How was nothing proven? I went by all the players stats from last year, not individual match-ups....... I did say the Lakers have the better bench, slightly, but they have the better bench

Yeah because you went by stats individually.

Championship teams play together, especially the bench. They absolutely have to play together as a 2nd unit to produce.

I'm not a bit doubtful that the Heat's bench will produce given Lebron is on that team. Mike Miller is one of the greatest shooters in the league, he should be able to get his with Bron or Wade out there. Big Z has a good mid range game to help spread the floor for Lebron.

The Lakers upgraded in Blake from Farmar at the 1. Matt Barnes is a defensive minded player who will play anybody tough. And we all know Lamar Odom is the best bench player out of both teams.

I do agree, that their really isn't a wide gap in benches. But the Lakers bench is still a bit better and have the pieces to put a stop to the Heat's bench.

Only concern for me is our length. Aside from Gasol/Bynum whom are arguably the best frontcourt in the league, there's really not much length off the bench. Theo is a nice defensive player, but hopefully he's able to to produce given his age.

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 11:25 PM
how did i only prove my oppinion by posting their advanced stats, you can yell something 100 times but it still doesnt make it true....

Firstly you used stats that favoured the players in which you root for completely ignoring (with the exclusion of the PGs) the stats of players from the other team.

Secondly how is Lamar and Z match up while Udonis and Ratliff is another, you'd never see those match-ups next season when they play each-other so I really don't understand the logic.

Thirdly using just last season's stats to prove your point is not 100% accurate as in any NBA discussion stats never tell the entire story.

4th you based a great deal of your posts on your opinion and what you perceive to be the truth.

I'd say this you made some good points but for the most part you seem a bit confused.

TylerSL
08-28-2010, 11:54 PM
Yeah because you went by stats individually.

Championship teams play together, especially the bench. They absolutely have to play together as a 2nd unit to produce.

I'm not a bit doubtful that the Heat's bench will produce given Lebron is on that team. Mike Miller is one of the greatest shooters in the league, he should be able to get his with Bron or Wade out there. Big Z has a good mid range game to help spread the floor for Lebron.

The Lakers upgraded in Blake from Farmar at the 1. Matt Barnes is a defensive minded player who will play anybody tough. And we all know Lamar Odom is the best bench player out of both teams.

I do agree, that their really isn't a wide gap in benches. But the Lakers bench is still a bit better and have the pieces to put a stop to the Heat's bench.

Only concern for me is our length. Aside from Gasol/Bynum whom are arguably the best frontcourt in the league, there's really not much length off the bench. Theo is a nice defensive player, but hopefully he's able to to produce given his age.

i agree with everything you just said. If Ratliff can stay in the game for 20+ min. and produce that would be scary, because last year he was just as good of a shot blocker as Dwight Howard. I know its hard to belive but they both had a Block% of 6.0 exaclty, which is rediculoulsy high

TylerSL
08-28-2010, 11:59 PM
Firstly you used stats that favoured the players in which you root for completely ignoring (with the exclusion of the PGs) the stats of players from the other team.

Secondly how is Lamar and Z match up while Udonis and Ratliff is another, you'd never see those match-ups next season when they play each-other so I really don't understand the logic.

Thirdly using just last season's stats to prove your point is not 100% accurate as in any NBA discussion stats never tell the entire story.

4th you based a great deal of your posts on your opinion and what you perceive to be the truth.

I'd say this you made some good points but for the most part you seem a bit confused.

.... wow most of my posts are facts from basketball-reference. Ive never seen you prove anything. Fine ill give you the benifit of the doubt with Haslem and Ratliff/Bi Z and Odom k. Odom>Haslem, but Big Z>Ratliff. Its still practically the same. Nothing is 100% accurate dude, if your looking for that, you will be looking for a long time. Using stats based on what they did last year is the most accuare because it was what they did most recently. To say im confused on anything is just insulting, the only thing you do is down my posts on any thread, and dont even give good reason to tell me im wrong. You just say I am confused.

daleja424
08-29-2010, 12:33 AM
and this is the problem with debates on this site. one fan goes all out looking up stats and making a rational argument, and then another says something to the effect of, "I dont care what the stats say, my team is still better." Its so tiring to put in an effort to have educated rational conversation with people who just glance over your argument, give no real rebuttle, but still think they are right.

TylerSL
08-29-2010, 12:46 AM
and this is the problem with debates on this site. one fan goes all out looking up stats and making a rational argument, and then another says something to the effect of, "I dont care what the stats say, my team is still better." Its so tiring to put in an effort to have educated rational conversation with people who just glance over your argument, give no real rebuttle, but still think they are right.

this x100 billion

Avenged
08-29-2010, 12:52 AM
i agree with everything you just said. If Ratliff can stay in the game for 20+ min. and produce that would be scary, because last year he was just as good of a shot blocker as Dwight Howard. I know its hard to belive but they both had a Block% of 6.0 exaclty, which is rediculoulsy high

The block stat is sort of flawed in my opinion.

There's no way Theo is as good as Dwight in that regard. Many can average a block a game to PG's and SG's.

But yeah, if Theo can produce he'll be a big contributer for the Lakers. I'm sure he'll see minutes as well since there's really no other big off the bench aside from Odom who will be Gasol's replacement. And we all know Bynum's knee injuries, he's definitely going to need his rest.

All in all though, benches are pretty even, with the Lakers coming out on top in terms of depth.

Luckily for the Heat (and every other team as well), rotations shorten in the playoffs so you'll be seeing a 1-7 rotation at the least. Maybe an 8, depending on the circumstances.

WadeKobe
08-29-2010, 04:07 AM
The block stat is sort of flawed in my opinion.

There's no way Theo is as good as Dwight in that regard. Many can average a block a game to PG's and SG's.

But yeah, if Theo can produce he'll be a big contributer for the Lakers. I'm sure he'll see minutes as well since there's really no other big off the bench aside from Odom who will be Gasol's replacement. And we all know Bynum's knee injuries, he's definitely going to need his rest.

All in all though, benches are pretty even, with the Lakers coming out on top in terms of depth.

Luckily for the Heat (and every other team as well), rotations shorten in the playoffs so you'll be seeing a 1-7 rotation at the least. Maybe an 8, depending on the circumstances.

Haha, excuse me? There is no way Theo is as good as Dwight in that regard?

I'm sorry... how long have you been watching basketball? lol. It can't have been long. Dwight is actually not that great of a shot-blocker, he is only good in this era (which is lacking good shot blockers).

Dwight Howard's Block% (the only important block statistic) is a pathetic 4.46 for his career. He's gotten much better over the past couple of years, and that number has been at 6.0.

Theo Ratliff, on the other hand, is the single greatest shot-blocker to ever play the game as far as players who could post a full career and stay relatively healthy. Manute Bol and Shawn Bradley are the only two who were better (bc of sheer length) but neither were able to have sustainable careers like Ratliff was. Ratliff, while he can't put up many minutes, is still an amazingly skilled shot-blocker.

His shot blocking % for his career is 7.2..... 7.2!!!! He's on the decline and he still posted a number as high as Howard's best season (6.0).

Please, please, please don't ever insult one of the game's greatest ever by saying "there is no way [he] is as good as Dwight in that regard."

Nonsense.

WadeKobe
08-29-2010, 04:10 AM
This really is a silly conversation. The Laker's bench has more talent on it. Period. The end. We can't even argue that, Heat fans. I love the homerism, but let's just be honest, k?

That bench has much more talent than hours. As far as it being "complimentary," that team loses a lot offensively on the bench but really is able to maintain their defensive tenacity. That's huge.

Our bench, while nowhere near as talented overall, is extremely "complimentary" and when it comes to rotations and teams on the court, I think the Heat are better, even with their bench players in.

What people need to recognize is that Wade and James are essentially part of our "Bench" because they are included in our rotations.

When the Lakers pull out Kobe - they have no more Kobe on the floor.

When the Heat pull out Wade or LeBron, they will ALWAYS have the other on the floor. They will never play a single minute against the Lakers without at least one of those two on the court.

This is why we are better in rotations than the Lakers, despite the fact that their bench is much, much better than ours in overall talent.

SugeKnight
08-29-2010, 04:25 AM
Lakers, sadly

stejay
08-29-2010, 05:36 AM
Odom>>>Big Z
(hes much more efficient)
Miller>Barnes
(higher PER, much higher TS%, higher eFG%)
Blake=Arroyo
(Arroyo has more Win Shares, much lower Turnover%, and higher PER. Blake has higher TS%, eFG%, Assist%, and Steal%. I know Blake has 4 things and Arroyo has 3, but PER is the most important stat IMO, and Win Shares are really high up too and Arroyo was higher in both areas)
Haslem>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ratliff
(I had Haslem and Ratliff because they are both big men, Shannon Brown and Haslem wouldnt really be fair because they are completly different. Haslem is wayyyyyy better, the only thing Ratliff beats Haslem in Block%, but other than that Haslem is wayyyyyyyy better.)
House<Brown
(Brown was more efficient, higher TS%, eFG%, and more Win Shares)

overall bench i would say Heat<Lakers, but it very close, people say the Heat have one of the worst benches, and the Lakers have one of the best benches, but they dont even compare them. When you compare their benches it is very close. If you wanna compare overall team its Heat because they have a better starting lineup
PG. Chalmers<Fisher (barely)
SG. Wade>Kobe (ima get crap but Wade passed Kobe 2 years ago)
SF. Lebron>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Artest (not even close, and nobody can stop Lebron)
PF. Bosh<<Gasol (best PF vs. the 5th best PF)
C. Anthony<<<Bynum (when healthy) (Bynum is better when he is healthy and doesnt foul)
I did the bench and its very close so overall team its Heat>Lakers. People who say the Lakers are too deep are wrong, because the Heat are just as deep as the Lakers if you accually stop and compare benches. If the Lakers accually have the best bench in the NBA, then the Heat are Top 5. Saying the Heat have a crappy bench is just an uneducated attemp to down the Heat.

totally different positions there man

Swashcuff
08-29-2010, 08:12 AM
.... wow most of my posts are facts from basketball-reference. Ive never seen you prove anything. Fine ill give you the benifit of the doubt with Haslem and Ratliff/Bi Z and Odom k. Odom>Haslem, but Big Z>Ratliff. Its still practically the same. Nothing is 100% accurate dude, if your looking for that, you will be looking for a long time. Using stats based on what they did last year is the most accuare because it was what they did most recently. To say im confused on anything is just insulting, the only thing you do is down my posts on any thread, and dont even give good reason to tell me im wrong. You just say I am confused.

Bro like I said before I need not give you just stats because everyone who has watched basketball knows that Steve Blake is certainly a quality PG and as a back-up for the world champions he's going to be an extremely valuable piece for them. I never said anything about your stats as you said its never 100% accurate. You stats didn't take into account intangibles or the value of a PG such as Blake in the triangle. I checked the stats bball reference, 82games, hoopdata and analysed each player in their relative role for their teams and the Lakers marginally have the better bench (as you said). I did not bash you for using stats I said that you used stats for the most part that benefited players you are rooted for to tilt the reasoning on your side. Though you do admit that you believe that the Lakers' bench is better.

I didn't down your post I disagreed with some of the stuff you said and I was curios as to why exactly you compare those bigs.

Minimal
08-29-2010, 10:29 AM
PG - Arroyo, Beverley = Blake
SG - House = Vujacic, Brown
SF - Miller, Jones > Barnes, Walton
PF - Haslem = Odom
C - Big Z > Theo

This is how I see it, but basically benches are even.

TylerSL
08-29-2010, 11:09 AM
Bro like I said before I need not give you just stats because everyone who has watched basketball knows that Steve Blake is certainly a quality PG and as a back-up for the world champions he's going to be an extremely valuable piece for them. I never said anything about your stats as you said its never 100% accurate. You stats didn't take into account intangibles or the value of a PG such as Blake in the triangle. I checked the stats bball reference, 82games, hoopdata and analysed each player in their relative role for their teams and the Lakers marginally have the better bench (as you said). I did not bash you for using stats I said that you used stats for the most part that benefited players you are rooted for to tilt the reasoning on your side. Though you do admit that you believe that the Lakers' bench is better.

I didn't down your post I disagreed with some of the stuff you said and I was curios as to why exactly you compare those bigs.

well when you say things like im confused it sends the wrong message, and is insulting to say the least

TylerSL
08-29-2010, 11:12 AM
PG - Arroyo, Beverley = Blake
SG - House = Vujacic, Brown
SF - Miller, Jones > Barnes, Walton
PF - Haslem = Odom
C - Big Z > Theo

This is how I see it, but basically benches are even.
IMO

Arroyo=Blake
House<Brown
Miller>Barnes
Haslem<Odom
Big Z>Theo

The Lakers bench is better, but the Heat have a good bench too.

Avenged
08-29-2010, 12:16 PM
Haha, excuse me? There is no way Theo is as good as Dwight in that regard?

I'm sorry... how long have you been watching basketball? lol. It can't have been long. Dwight is actually not that great of a shot-blocker, he is only good in this era (which is lacking good shot blockers).

Dwight Howard's Block% (the only important block statistic) is a pathetic 4.46 for his career. He's gotten much better over the past couple of years, and that number has been at 6.0.

Theo Ratliff, on the other hand, is the single greatest shot-blocker to ever play the game as far as players who could post a full career and stay relatively healthy. Manute Bol and Shawn Bradley are the only two who were better (bc of sheer length) but neither were able to have sustainable careers like Ratliff was. Ratliff, while he can't put up many minutes, is still an amazingly skilled shot-blocker.

His shot blocking % for his career is 7.2..... 7.2!!!! He's on the decline and he still posted a number as high as Howard's best season (6.0).

Please, please, please don't ever insult one of the game's greatest ever by saying "there is no way [he] is as good as Dwight in that regard."

Nonsense.

I'm talking right now, not their careers. Theo was a blocking machine in the 90's and early 00's, but he isn't what he once was. There's a reason Dwight has lead the seasons in blocks for 2 consecutive years.

Again, I'm really not comparing careers, never did I mention careers, but as of right now, Dwight Howard is a better shot blocker.

stejay
08-29-2010, 01:46 PM
PG - Arroyo, Beverley = Blake
SG - House = Vujacic, Brown
SF - Miller, Jones > Barnes, Walton
PF - Haslem = Odom
C - Big Z > Theo

This is how I see it, but basically benches are even.

hahahahahahahahahhahahahha. I needed that laugh, thanks man. :D

Vidball
08-29-2010, 03:17 PM
The big difference is the Lakers use a 3-man rotation for their PF/C position (they have for the last 2 1/2 seasons). At PF/C the Lakers have Bynum/Gasol/Odom. Miami has a strong advantage at SF, but the advantage ends there.

WadeKobe
08-29-2010, 07:54 PM
I'm talking right now, not their careers. Theo was a blocking machine in the 90's and early 00's, but he isn't what he once was. There's a reason Dwight has lead the seasons in blocks for 2 consecutive years.

Again, I'm really not comparing careers, never did I mention careers, but as of right now, Dwight Howard is a better shot blocker.

But that's my point... this is false.

Theo Ratliff averaged 3.0 Blocks per 36 minutes and Howard averaged 2.9 last year....

In block percentage they both had 6.0.

How on earth could you possibly say that Dwight Howard is the better shot blocker? It's simply not true... at all.

WadeKobe
08-29-2010, 07:55 PM
The big difference is the Lakers use a 3-man rotation for their PF/C position (they have for the last 2 1/2 seasons). At PF/C the Lakers have Bynum/Gasol/Odom. Miami has a strong advantage at SF, but the advantage ends there.

:facepalm:

DCB/LAL
08-30-2010, 02:17 PM
:laugh: :laugh2:


At the idiots who actually think Haslem=Odom that has got to be one of the dumbest things ive heard on PSD.

And the only thing Miller does better than Odom is shoot Lamar is so valuable to LA not because of his scoring thats a plus if he has a good scoring night forget it game over LA almost never loses when he has a good scoring night but he is most valuable for the flexability he brings and HIS REBOUNDING he doesn't NEED TO BE A SCORER on this team so give Odom as the better sixth man.


And Big Z is washed up he didn't even plai in the playoffs this past year I believe he is pretty much a non-factor.


You wanna talk about bench talk about the guys who will be getting quality minutes not the guys who wont really see the court.....and come playoff time some of them wont be running the court.

IrespectNumber3
08-30-2010, 02:29 PM
I think its close, but it isn't all about who has a better bench more so who has a better rotation.

I honestly think LA has a better rotation, but because of health/durability Miami can always put the better team on the floor during any timeout as long as they aren't in foul trouble.

But the Advantage that LA has at C is huge

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-30-2010, 03:29 PM
The Lakers rotation of bigs are better. At any point in the game, they always have either Bynum/Gasol, Bynum/Odom, Gasol/Odom. After a while, it wears down other teams bigs. Ratliff is just an insurance policy. He wont see minutes.

ChiSox219
08-30-2010, 04:08 PM
If you watch Odom and break down all of the things he does, a lot of his value is lost when translated to traditional or basic advanced stats.

Odom's outlet passing is very good and he's capable of starting a fast break by himself because of his ball-handling skills.

During half court offensive sets Odom brings tremendously versatility. He is capable of playing both roles in the P&R, he has a solid outside jumper, a good post up game, and is a tremendous passer with Point Guard-like vision.

Defensively is where Odom's value is most evident. Lamar is one of the league's best defensive rebounders which helps to magnify his outlet passing/fast break creation. He is capable of guarding multiple different offensive styles from a true post up Power Forward to a Stretch 4. He can guard either man when facing the P&R, something few other bigs can do.

I vehemently disagree that Haslem and Odom are equals and I believe Odom is closer to Bosh than he is to Haslem.

TylerSL
08-30-2010, 08:58 PM
yes Odom is the best bench player on both teams

TylerSL
08-30-2010, 09:09 PM
IMO the Lakers have the better bench, the Heat have the better rotations and here is why. They will start the game with Wade, Lebron, and Bosh (obviously) in the starting lineup, but they will have at least 2 of big 3 in at all time whether it be Wade/James, Wade/Bosh, Lebron/Bosh. I also think the Heat will go with Wade/James the most and they could get the Lakers bigs (Bynum, Odom, and Gasol) in foul trouble because Wade and Lebron are 2 of the best at getting to the line. If the Lakers ever have to have both Bynum and Gasol in foul trouble, I think the Heat would go with a rotation of Wade, Miller, Lebron, Haslem, Bosh and the Lakers would go with a rotation of Fisher/Blake Kobe Artest Odom Ratliff and I would pick that Heat lineup every time. Maybe I am wrong but I just cant see the Lakers bigs staying out of foul trouble with Wade and Lebron getting into the paint almost every posession.

Ovratd1up
08-31-2010, 02:35 AM
Matt Barnes is another player that is pretty underrated. He's better than Miller now with all he brings to the table. Blake is a good backup PG, better than Arroyo. Odom plays all the minutes that Pau/Bynum don't, minus garbage minutes. Haslem and Big Z will play the minutes that Odom does, but Odom will play them more effectively. Brown and House are equally terrible.

So yeah, the Lakers definitely have a superior bench.


Fisher/Blake/Kobe/Barnes/Artest/Gasol/Odom/Bynum

Mario/Lebron/Miller/Wade/Bosh/Haslem/Joel/Big Z.


These should be the main rotations. The Lakers will also give Brown some minutes, and the Heat will have to play others too (Arroyo, Juwan, Jones, whoever).


So the Lakers basically have two elite players, three very good players, and two average players, and might play a bad player.

The Heat have two very elite players, one very very good one, two average players and two way below average players, and will have to play some terrible players.


Just from the talent level the Heat aren't by any means clearly better than the Lakers, and that is without considering interior defense, chemistry, experience, and coaching.

TylerSL
08-31-2010, 08:48 AM
Matt Barnes is another player that is pretty underrated. He's better than Miller now with all he brings to the table. Blake is a good backup PG, better than Arroyo. Odom plays all the minutes that Pau/Bynum don't, minus garbage minutes. Haslem and Big Z will play the minutes that Odom does, but Odom will play them more effectively. Brown and House are equally terrible.So yeah, the Lakers definitely have a superior bench.


Fisher/Blake/Kobe/Barnes/Artest/Gasol/Odom/Bynum

Mario/Lebron/Miller/Wade/Bosh/Haslem/Joel/Big Z.


These should be the main rotations. The Lakers will also give Brown some minutes, and the Heat will have to play others too (Arroyo, Juwan, Jones, whoever).


So the Lakers basically have two elite players, three very good players, and two average players, and might play a bad player.

The Heat have two very elite players, one very very good one, two average players and two way below average players, and will have to play some terrible players.


Just from the talent level the Heat aren't by any means clearly better than the Lakers, and that is without considering interior defense, chemistry, experience, and coaching.

ima bold some things
1. Miller has higher PER, TS%, eFG%, and Assist%. Miller is better
2.Arroyo and Blake are equal as Blake has higher TS%, eFG%, and Assist% while Arroyo has higher PER, lower T/O rate, and more Win Shares. That is equal if anything
3.Neither of them are garbage but Brown is better than House.

Ovratd1up
08-31-2010, 03:52 PM
ima bold some things
1. Miller has higher PER, TS%, eFG%, and Assist%. Miller is better

While Mike Miller was extremely efficient, that's part of the problem with him, that he opts out of shooting a lot and instead passes up shots for worse ones for his teammates. And Barnes was very efficient himself (TS% 576). Barnes is the better rebounder, and Miller is the better passer. He has a slightly higher usage % yet a lower TO%. Ortg of 110 to Miller's 114 and same amount of Offensive Win Shares (2.5). But his defense sets him apart, Drtg of 103 to Miller's 110, higher Stl% and Blk% and 3.4 Defensive win shares to Miller's 1.4. The difference in PER is .4. It's arguable, but I'd take Barnes.


2.Arroyo and Blake are equal as Blake has higher TS%, eFG%, and Assist% while Arroyo has higher PER, lower T/O rate, and more Win Shares. That is equal if anything


This is true, but Blake really had a down year. He's been better when he started on a really good playoff team, though Arroyo has had better years as well. You're right, it's pretty equal, but if I had to choose I'd take Blake.


3.Neither of them are garbage but Brown is better than House.

House is garbage, and Brown is bad. He has solid defense, but that's it. But yeah he's still better than House.

TylerSL
09-04-2010, 10:32 PM
While Mike Miller was extremely efficient, that's part of the problem with him, that he opts out of shooting a lot and instead passes up shots for worse ones for his teammates. And Barnes was very efficient himself (TS% 576). Barnes is the better rebounder, and Miller is the better passer. He has a slightly higher usage % yet a lower TO%. Ortg of 110 to Miller's 114 and same amount of Offensive Win Shares (2.5). But his defense sets him apart, Drtg of 103 to Miller's 110, higher Stl% and Blk% and 3.4 Defensive win shares to Miller's 1.4. The difference in PER is .4. It's arguable, but I'd take Barnes.



This is true, but Blake really had a down year. He's been better when he started on a really good playoff team, though Arroyo has had better years as well. You're right, it's pretty equal, but if I had to choose I'd take Blake.



House is garbage, and Brown is bad. He has solid defense, but that's it. But yeah he's still better than House.

even if Miller "didnt take shots that he could have" he will in Miami, that will be his role. Miller will have a bigger role for the Heat, than Barnes will for the Lakers, I would pick Miller

I would chose Blake to probably because he can shoot the 3 good, and Arroyo is bad at 3's. That is the deciding factor for me.

House isnt garbage at shooting the 3, he is very clutch at that area. Il agree he cant creat for himself, or play any defense, but he is clutch when it comes to hiting 3's with the game on the line (his Boston days). Barnes is more versatile, and just better overall

LBJ06
09-05-2010, 12:05 PM
Heat or Lakers but it doesn't matter because The Heat will be having a superstar on the court every time to lead the bench players.

Team 2:
House
Miller
Bron
Haslem
Big Z

Team 3:
Chalmers
Wade
Jones
Bosh
J.Anthony

Shuffle them all you want as long as Wade or LeBron will be on the court every single time.

justinnum1
09-05-2010, 12:20 PM
Matt Barnes is another player that is pretty underrated. He's better than Miller now with all he brings to the table. Blake is a good backup PG, better than Arroyo. Odom plays all the minutes that Pau/Bynum don't, minus garbage minutes. Haslem and Big Z will play the minutes that Odom does, but Odom will play them more effectively. Brown and House are equally terrible.

So yeah, the Lakers definitely have a superior bench.


Fisher/Blake/Kobe/Barnes/Artest/Gasol/Odom/Bynum

Mario/Lebron/Miller/Wade/Bosh/Haslem/Joel/Big Z.


These should be the main rotations. The Lakers will also give Brown some minutes, and the Heat will have to play others too (Arroyo, Juwan, Jones, whoever).


So the Lakers basically have two elite players, three very good players, and two average players, and might play a bad player.

The Heat have two very elite players, one very very good one, two average players and two way below average players, and will have to play some terrible players.


Just from the talent level the Heat aren't by any means clearly better than the Lakers, and that is without considering interior defense, chemistry, experience, and coaching.

:facepalm:

footballer2369
09-05-2010, 12:30 PM
and this is the problem with debates on this site. one fan goes all out looking up stats and making a rational argument, and then another says something to the effect of, "I dont care what the stats say, my team is still better." Its so tiring to put in an effort to have educated rational conversation with people who just glance over your argument, give no real rebuttle, but still think they are right.

I'm a Heat fan too and his bias was clear as day and embarassing to me.

He picked and chose pairings and quoted stats that supported his argument...

I generally agree with the idea behind your post but in this instance it was certainly fair to dismiss the argument in question.

As for the thread...we'll see...a lot of this will depend on
a) injuries
b) young guys (if butler comes in and plays right away, i'd say he's well better than anything LA has at guard)
c) comparisons should not be "so and so is < or > than the other". It's a team game...synergy is vital. And it's very unlikely that there will ever be 5 bench players on the floor for the Heat outside of blowouts...there will likely be a superstar, a couple shooters in house and miller, with z and haslem also spotting up and wade/lebron isoing...which IMO is as perfect as it gets...

so while the lakers bench may win < > I hardly think that will be relevant in game action...and i think as far as fit, the Heat bench has the advantage... that really is more important IMO (see Isaiah Thomas' Knicks)

footballer2369
09-05-2010, 12:37 PM
So the Lakers basically have two elite players, three very good players, and two average players, and might play a bad player.

The Heat have two very elite players, one very very good one, two average players and two way below average players, and will have to play some terrible players.

Hmmm...so based on your categories I now see that:
Lebron and Gasol are approximately equal in impact and ability.
Bosh is only slightly better and more impactful than Bynum, Artest and Odom.
Miller and Haslem are only as good as Matt Barnes and Blake.
Fisher is way better than Mario and Joel...
And the scrubs at the bottom of the Lakers rotation are better than House and Big Z...

Very interesting... I approve of your arbitrary ranking system... It's clearly an effective and accurate way of ranking players and their impact on a game...

Lebron didn't lead his team alone to more wins than the Lakers with both Kobe and Gasol or anything did he? Because that might schew the rankings :x

xbrackattackx
09-05-2010, 05:55 PM
La

jackdawson
09-05-2010, 07:45 PM
Both benches are pretty even may be Miami is slightly better.