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king2218
08-27-2010, 11:48 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/434952-david-stern-and-espn-have-destroyed-allen-iversons-career

There has been some talk going on that there is a conspiracy against Allen Iverson, how is that a 38 year old Shaq with a huge ego get signed to a Boston team that just reached the Finals last year and a 35 year old Allen Iverson isn't even mentioned?, how is it that a banged up Jermaine O'Neal who lost a step 3 years ago also signed to that team?? How is it that a injury prone Tracy McGrady who has played just 65 games in two seasons is on a team and Allen Iverson can't even get an offer? Something is up, there is definitely a conspiracy against Allen Iverson and it didn't just start this off season its been going on for about 2 years now.

We all know Allen Iverson has been hated by the leagues executives, ESPN, other media outlets and David Stern ever since he entered the league, they didn't like the tattoos, hip-hop culture that he brought to the league. But they made millions of dollars off of him because he was the best player in the league in the early 00's and was the most popular player since Michael Jordan.

He was a trend setter and David Stern didn't like the trends he set, here was a guy who was told he would make millions of dollars and be an icon if he followed the plan the league had for him, he said screw that plan I will do it my way, then his way made him a bigger icon then the league would ever be able to. This pissed the league off even more, when the media would write wrong things about AI he would fire back at them telling them it was wrong.

Many say Stern has a lot of control over ESPN and a lot of media members respect him. He can easily have them write what he wants about AI, the writers on NBA.com have never said something positive about Iverson. We all know how ESPN purposely keeps AI off of historical reminders on National TV, but one the day he announced his brief retirement last season the poll question was: What will you remember Allen Iverson for? a.) Hall Of Famer, b.) His Practice Rant. Are you kidding me, why aren't the choices the greatest little man ever? one of the greatest scorers ever? one of the 25 greatest players to ever play the game? Disgusting how they did that.

Yes Iverson was wrong to talk like that about practice, but there are athletes that did many worse things and nobody was reminded of those things when they retired. Once they finished the disgusting segment on Iverson they said "Now on to players who are on NBA rosters". Wow.

The media hates Iverson, they are the ones that are brainwashing people into thinking he has slowed down and needs to accept a reduced role, they are the ones that are saying teams should stay away from him. This brainwashes ignorant basketball fans into thinking AI is some scrub that needs to come off the bench, the media can destroy a player easily and you shouldn't always believe whats out there. The great Tupac Shakur once said "Don't ever fall for the medias tricks". These are clever people who can control the audience and force them to think one way.

Throughout the league all the executives are good friends with each other and with Stern, it is not hard for Stern to send out a memo to these guys telling them to stay away from Iverson. These are the same guys that vote players onto All-NBA teams by the way and the same guys that get to vote for the awards at the end of the season.

In 2007-08 with the Denver Nuggets Iverson had one of his best years ever, he played in all 82 games and averaged 26.4 PPG on just 18 shots per game, 7.2 apg, 2.2 spg and shot a career high 46% from the field, he did this on a 50 win Denver Nuggets team. Aside from Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson was arguably the second best guard in the league that year and his stats show it.

Since Kobe Bryant was the obvious pick for SG on the All-NBA First team and Chris Paul was having a magical season finishing 2nd in MVP voting next to Bryant, Iverson should have either barley got that guard spot on the first team or been a lock for 2nd team worst case scenario for Iverson he is a guard on the third team. Guess what happened? Iverson didn't make any of the teams!!. Disgusting. This was clearly done purposely, Iverson had one of his best seasons of the decade and he was left off the All-Nba teams. This was clearly the executives black balling AI, he should have been recognized that year but that season was forgotten.

Then when selection time for the 2008 USA Mens Basketball team that would play in the Olympics in Beijing came, every all-star was invited except Allen Iverson. The media wrote about how AI didn't deserve it because of the 04 Olympics teams disappointing bronze medal finish, even though AI played better then everyone on that 04 team he was blamed for the failure. Iverson talked about how he would have loved to be on that team because he would be able to take his family to the Olympics for the summer, bond with his wife, stay away from the nightlife in Atlanta in the off season and stay focused on basketball while trying to win a gold medal for his country. It was sad to see AI left off that team. It was obvious black balling.

Iverson was frustrated with the league and in 2009 at the All-Star break he was asked about NBA Cares and how he feels about the things the league is doing to clean the image up his response:


"Fake," said the 10-time all-star who plays for the Detroit Pistons.

Iverson went on to say that he prefers the cameras not be around when he helps others less fortunate than him.

"I just look forward to doing it. I don't need all the publicity that comes with it. I don't need that. When it's time for me to get toward that gate, either He [is] gonna say, 'Come in,' or He [is] gonna say, 'Turn around.' And a camera won't decide whether I get in or not."

"I've done a lot of good things in my life and done a lot of bad things in my life so I don't know. I hope the good things outweigh the bad things. I'm damn sure I don't want to go to hell."


This may have killed AI's career, he spoke his mind and what he is saying is kind of true but he shouldn't have said it, the league already hated him enough and was starting to ignore him and destroy him and these comments may have sealed the deal for him. That All-Star game he played just 15 minutes, the media destroyed AI and all of a sudden blamed him for Detroit's failed season, two weeks after this Coach Curry sent Iverson to the bench. That off season one team wanted Iverson, the Grizzlies and even they knew he wasn't accepting a bench role so they brought him in and sent him to the bench. Stern may have called for this after Iverson's comments and since then everything has been downhill.

The problem with those comments was Iverson was making himself look bigger then the league and bigger then the organizations in the league. Stern didn't like that, had Iverson made those comments any other year before that then they would probably let it slide but in Detroit people were already saying he had lost a step because of the media, even though he was averaging about 18 ppg and 6 apg and taking just 14 shots per game. Stern had a golden opportunity to banish AI from the league and he took advantage of it.

Iverson was bashed by the media in the last year more then any NBA player, he was labelled a cancerous washed up scrub who needed to play a reduced role. Even though he took a month and a half off from basketball and came back out of NBA shape with an injured knee. He made that Sixers squad better, he averaged 14 ppg on just 10 shots a night in just 29 mpg and the media wrote it as a bad season for AI and said he quit on the Sixers even though his daughter was ill.

Now Iverson is training harder then ever in Atlanta, the media is still writing him off and preventing him from getting on a team, Stern might even be telling teams to stay away from AI, that is why he has no interest. I mean come on, a former MVP, 4 time scoring champion.... I could go on and on about the things AI has done it would take me an article but the guy is a first ballot hall of famer and he can't get an offer?

What really ticks me off is they put up Iverson's picture on NBA.com, headline his name like they are going to talk about him instead they add insult to injury by writing this:

" Shaquille O'Neal is signed. McGrady is signed. Jermaine O'Neal is signed. Just when you thought it couldn't get more awkward for Iverson."

Is that a slight at AI? I can just see all the writers reading that article and getting what he is trying to say, they are the ones that made it awkward for Iverson. Allen Iverson probably won't get signed this year and will retire before the season starts, it truly can't get more awkward for Iverson.

It is clear David Stern, ESPN and other media outlets teamed up and black balled Allen Iverson. Throughout his whole career AI was the player that could beat a team all by himself, but sadly there was one team he couldn't take on by himself and that was David Stern and the media. They destroyed him.

What do you guys think about this???
I personally would love for the Magic to sign him, if he's willing to come off the bench...he plays with heart all the time & that's what the Magic needed aganist the celtics in the playoffs...someone who played with heart & attacked the celtic defense...unlike vince carter, who just threw up jumpers all the damn time.

whitemamba33
08-27-2010, 11:50 PM
...
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he made a complete a%% of himself in Memphis.

He wants to play for a contending team i'm sure, but no contending team wants to bring his ego, ball hogging, and chemistry problems.

king2218
08-27-2010, 11:55 PM
How did he do that in memphis? Cause he said he wasn't willing to come off the bench...? Why would he agree to that if he's outplaying the starting guard?? And he's not a ball hog, he has averaged 6 assists a game. Even in the 3 games he played in memphis...in 22 minutes, he averaged 4 assists!

Shammyguy3
08-27-2010, 11:57 PM
Maybe because he's terrible? And no team wants a bad player? And maybe he won't even sell tickets anymore?


Maybe, maybe he is the most overrated player to ever play? Maybe, just maybe.

whitemamba33
08-28-2010, 12:03 AM
He's not a team player. A player doesn't dictate whether or not he starts. That's up to the coach. I don't know what you dont understand about this, but in general, teams aren't looking for 35 year olds who come in and start making demands.

Let me make this VERY easy for you to understand: His last 3 teams were the Pistons, Grizzlies, and 76'ers.

-His time in Detroit was a disaster...ultimatly leading to him threatening to retire rather than come off the bench, and sitting out the rest of the season.

-His time in Memphis was the same. He came out talking about how commited they were to developing a winner, than ended up with retirement again because he couldn't get over his own ego.

-His time with the 76'ers ended with him again sitting out the rest of the season.

NOBODY IS GOING TO WANT THIS GUY. I wouldn't take him on a high school team.

king2218
08-28-2010, 12:04 AM
He won't sell tickets...? Didn't you watch any of his games when he returned in a Philly uniform...? They sold out the home games! Same goes in memphis!

And how is he terrible? Last season, In philly when he played 25 games (granted its not alot of games) he averaged 14pts, 4assts, 3rbds, in 32 minutes. If he can come off the bench & play 20-30 minutes...his role would be as a scorer...he can easily put up 15 points in those minutes.

king2218
08-28-2010, 12:05 AM
IF he's agreeing to come off the bench, why wouldn't a team take him?? He can play the 'jamal crawford' role for a team in need of a bench scorer...

roshan3ai
08-28-2010, 12:07 AM
I love AI. He is/was my favorite player. But this article is flat out stupid. The NBA and media probably do dislike AI, but I don't think Stern goes out of his way to tell the media to write articles bad-mouthing Iverson. He does get a bad wrap around here and on ESPN, but that's because of his personality. It's either you love him or you hate him. Say what you want about him, but he brought that Sixers team to the NBA finals and played with heart every night.

Sadds The Gr8
08-28-2010, 12:07 AM
IF he's agreeing to come off the bench, why wouldn't a team take him?? He can play the 'jamal crawford' role for a team in need of a bench scorer...

I've been saying this for awhile. It's because he wants to start why everyone is avoiding him. If he takes a 6th man role, I'm sure many teams would want his services.

whitemamba33
08-28-2010, 12:08 AM
IF he's agreeing to come off the bench, why wouldn't a team take him?? He can play the 'jamal crawford' role for a team in need of a bench scorer...

What about his last 3 seasons tells you that he is willing to come off the bench? His threating to retire rather than coming off the bench in Detroit? His threatening to retire rather than coming off the bench in Memphis? Nobody wants this guys chemistry issues. Don't believe me? Look no further than the fact that he doesn't have a team.

Shammyguy3
08-28-2010, 12:09 AM
He won't sell tickets...? Didn't you watch any of his games when he returned in a Philly uniform...? They sold out the home games! Same goes in memphis!

And how is he terrible? Last season, In philly when he played 25 games (granted its not alot of games) he averaged 14pts, 4assts, 3rbds, in 32 minutes. If he can come off the bench & play 20-30 minutes...his role would be as a scorer...he can easily put up 15 points in those minutes.

First things first: ppg, apg, rpg, fg%, tov are terrible stats. Reason why is because they don't give the full story. You have to account for shot attempts, where those shots were taken, how often were they assisted on, how great of a team was the player on, team pace, were there any other good rebounders on the team etc etc etc

Iverson's ts% was 51.5% and his eFG% was 44.5%
53.0% is average for a wing-player, and he was awful. His ORtg was 11 points less than his defensive rating, meaning he gave up 11 points more per 100 possessions than he scored.


Second thing: he sold tickets because he returned to Philly, the only place he would have been able to sell tickets. That "fling" is once again over for good.

whitemamba33
08-28-2010, 12:11 AM
First things first: ppg, apg, rpg, fg%, tov are terrible stats. Reason why is because they don't give the full story. You have to account for shot attempts, where those shots were taken, how often were they assisted on, how great of a team was the player on, team pace, were there any other good rebounders on the team etc etc etc

Iverson's ts% was 51.5% and his eFG% was 44.5%
53.0% is average for a wing-player, and he was awful. His ORtg was 11 points less than his defensive rating, meaning he gave up 11 points more per 100 possessions than he scored.


Second thing: he sold tickets because he returned to Philly, the only place he would have been able to sell tickets. That "fling" is once again over for good.

:clap:

BenFrank
08-28-2010, 12:13 AM
2 the guy who started this thread.. I couldn't agree more!!

Now i'm bout to sit back and watch a lot of people trash this guy.. it happens everytime the word Iverson come's up

Shammyguy3
08-28-2010, 12:14 AM
2 the guy who started this thread.. I couldn't agree more!!

Now i'm bout to sit back and watch a lot of people trash this guy.. it happens everytime the word Iverson come's up

For good reason though half the time

Jewelz0376
08-28-2010, 12:17 AM
I love AI and he has been my favorite player since he was at GU, but AI brought this on himself... Sure he can still play, but he's not good enough anymore to ignore the problems he has the potential to cause..I'll admit he didnt have any problems in Philly, but I think by then it was too little too late... The Det situation wasn't completely his fault, but he could've handled it better...

The situation that was no excuse for was what happened in Memphis..No doubt he should've been starting over Conley, but he never gave it a chance...All he had to do was keep playing off the bench for a couple weeks and he would've been moved into the starting lineup...Nah he had to stay something his first game back (i think..it might have been his 3rd i can't remember).. It's like come on AI really??...

I'm sorry I love AI as much as the next fan, but if he wants to know why he isn't signed yet, and probably won't be all he has to do is look in the mirror..

missionh1llpart
08-28-2010, 12:19 AM
i really dont see why a team like the kings wouldnt take a chance on iverson...

Jewelz0376
08-28-2010, 12:19 AM
First things first: ppg, apg, rpg, fg%, tov are terrible stats. Reason why is because they don't give the full story. You have to account for shot attempts, where those shots were taken, how often were they assisted on, how great of a team was the player on, team pace, were there any other good rebounders on the team etc etc etc

Iverson's ts% was 51.5% and his eFG% was 44.5%
53.0% is average for a wing-player, and he was awful. His ORtg was 11 points less than his defensive rating, meaning he gave up 11 points more per 100 possessions than he scored.


Second thing: he sold tickets because he returned to Philly, the only place he would have been able to sell tickets. That "fling" is once again over for good.

:rolleyes:

Shammyguy3
08-28-2010, 12:22 AM
:rolleyes:

They are, and if you don't realize that then i pity you.

Player A scores 40 points per game
Player B scores 20 points per game
Who's better? You'd say A obviously. Hold on though:
Player A took 37 shots per game
Player B took 11 shots per game
Now who's better?

First point made, check.

Player A shoots 45%
Player B shoots 39%
Who's better? You'd say A obviously. Hold on though:
Player A shot zero threes, so for every 100 shots he takes = 90 points
Player B only took threes, so for every 100 shots he takes = 117 points

Second point made, check.

Should i keep going? :rolleyes:

MrfadeawayJB
08-28-2010, 12:27 AM
I love AI and he has been my favorite player since he was at GU, but AI brought this on himself... Sure he can still play, but he's not good enough anymore to ignore the problems he has the potential to cause..I'll admit he didnt have any problems in Philly, but I think by then it was too little too late... The Det situation wasn't completely his fault, but he could've handled it better...

The situation that was no excuse for was what happened in Memphis..No doubt he should've been starting over Conley, but he never gave it a chance...All he had to do was keep playing off the bench for a couple weeks and he would've been moved into the starting lineup...Nah he had to stay something his first game back (i think..it might have been his 3rd i can't remember).. It's like come on AI really??...

I'm sorry I love AI as much as the next fan, but if he wants to know why he isn't signed yet, and probably won't be all he has to do is look in the mirror..


This statement is on point!!! AI was also coming off a hamstring injury that hindered his minutes...he should have played his part, then after a while he would probably start

jrice9
08-28-2010, 12:29 AM
They are, and if you don't realize that then i pity you.

Player A scores 40 points per game
Player B scores 20 points per game
Who's better? You'd say A obviously. Hold on though:
Player A took 37 shots per game
Player B took 11 shots per game
Now who's better?

First point made, check.

Player A shoots 45%
Player B shoots 39%
Who's better? You'd say A obviously. Hold on though:
Player A shot zero threes, so for every 100 shots he takes = 90 points
Player B only took threes, so for every 100 shots he takes = 117 points

Second point made, check.

Should i keep going? :rolleyes:
However, those are extreme examples. Yes ppg and FG% obviously have their statistical flaws but so do almost every stat in sports. While I agree those arent the best statistics to use their arent that many players who have/could have as good seasons as AI has had

Shammyguy3
08-28-2010, 12:35 AM
However, those are extreme examples. Yes ppg and FG% obviously have their statistical flaws but so do almost every stat in sports. While I agree those arent the best statistics to use their arent that many players who have/could have as good seasons as AI has had

Very extreme, i admit. But i was merely trying to get the idea across, that why use "worse," for lack of a better word, stats when we have advanced stats in ts%, eFG%, ast%, reb%, tov%, usg%, ORtg, DRtg, Per, OWS, DWS, WS/48?

And, i beg to differ on Iverson every being great. He's had one really good season, which was 07/08 with Denver (ts% of 56.7% efG% of 48.8%). He's only had an above-average ts% 3 times, and a below average one 9 times and 2 average ones. He's only an above-average eFG% twice, and a below average one 9 times and 3 average ones.

He has a higher career DRtg than ORtg, meaning he hasn't been a plus on the court. He's never been great, and i state again he's the most overrated player ever.

Jewelz0376
08-28-2010, 12:36 AM
They are, and if you don't realize that then i pity you.

Player A scores 40 points per game
Player B scores 20 points per game
Who's better? You'd say A obviously. Hold on though:
Player A took 37 shots per game
Player B took 11 shots per game
Now who's better?

First point made, check.

Player A shoots 45%
Player B shoots 39%
Who's better? You'd say A obviously. Hold on though:
Player A shot zero threes, so for every 100 shots he takes = 90 points
Player B only took threes, so for every 100 shots he takes = 117 points

Second point made, check.

Should i keep going? :rolleyes:

:facepalm:

If you think those bs examples proved that we should ignore ppg, apg, and rpg then there's no point in even wasting my time with you...

Mrphilly
08-28-2010, 12:38 AM
Maybe because he's terrible? And no team wants a bad player? And maybe he won't even sell tickets anymore?


Maybe, maybe he is the most overrated player to ever play? Maybe, just maybe.
Maybe you are a fool or Maybe you are just starving for attention. Iverson at 35 is way better than Conley Jr will ever be. I wouldn't come off the bench for him. Everybody knows the media can build a player up, just as well as they can riun a players reputation. Iverson has never been terrible. AI is not the player he once was, but he is still better a lot of guards in this league. AI is not angel, but he doesn't deserve this.

masalex1205
08-28-2010, 12:39 AM
:facepalm: at this thread

Hawkeye15
08-28-2010, 12:41 AM
There is no reason to sign Iverson for any basketball reason. If he is signed, it for commercial reasons only. At this point, he is a complete liability on the floor

Shammyguy3
08-28-2010, 12:42 AM
:facepalm:

If you think those bs examples proved that we should ignore ppg, apg, and rpg then there's no point in even wasting my time with you...

:laugh: how are those bs examples? I proved my point, get over it. It's not how many points you score, but how efficient you are in getting those points. I'm right, you're wrong.


Maybe you are a fool or Maybe you are just starving for attention. Iverson at 35 is way better than Conley Jr will ever be. I wouldn't come off the bench for him. Everybody knows the media can build a player up, just as well as they can riun a players reputation. Iverson has never been terrible. AI is not the player he once was, but he is still better a lot of guards in this league. AI is not angel, but he doesn't deserve this.

Conley has been better than him the last two years.
This is why i avoid the main forum, because half of the people in here don't know what they're talking about when it comes to stats. They see a guy puts up 30 one season, and they think he's the ****ing ****. In Iverson's highest scoring season (31.4ppg) he took 27.8 shots. Yeah, that's quite efficient :facepalm:

arkanian215
08-28-2010, 12:58 AM
There is no reason to sign Iverson for any basketball reason. If he is signed, it for commercial reasons only. At this point, he is a complete liability on the floor

Looks like someone got promoted. Congrats.

ntat
08-28-2010, 01:00 AM
Well he is definitely not one of the 25 best players ever.
There is no conspiracy. No one wants an old, lost a step 5 foot 11(i dont think he is 6 ft) scorer that kills ball movement, doesnt play D, doesnt make teams better, and has quit on two teams in two years, and obviously whines about practice.
And the worst part is he isnt willing to help a team. If he doesnt play on HIS terms, its not enough for him.

Hawkeye15
08-28-2010, 01:00 AM
Looks like someone got promoted. Congrats.

thanks dude

Jewelz0376
08-28-2010, 01:03 AM
Very extreme, i admit. But i was merely trying to get the idea across, that why use "worse," for lack of a better word, stats when we have advanced stats in ts%, eFG%, ast%, reb%, tov%, usg%, ORtg, DRtg, Per, OWS, DWS, WS/48?

And, i beg to differ on Iverson every being great. He's had one really good season, which was 07/08 with Denver (ts% of 56.7% efG% of 48.8%). He's only had an above-average ts% 3 times, and a below average one 9 times and 2 average ones. He's only an above-average eFG% twice, and a below average one 9 times and 3 average ones.

He has a higher career DRtg than ORtg, meaning he hasn't been a plus on the court. He's never been great, and i state again he's the most overrated player ever.

97-98 = 20.40 PER (14th overall)
98-99 = 22.20 PER (14th overall)
99-00 = 20.00 PER (20th overall)
00-01 = 24.00 PER (7th overall)
01-02 = 22.90 PER (12th overall)
02-03 = 22.14 PER (13th overall)
04-05 = 23.27 PER (9th overall)
05-06 = 26.02 PER (7th overall)
07-08 = 21.06 PER (21 overall)

Thats 9 outta 11 years he was basically top 20 in per..3 of those being top 10.. Was he the most efficient player in nba history?...no..but people act like he was basically no better than an eddie house that got 20+ shots a game.... The fact that he could get PER's like this being a 6 foot sg is amazing, but people I guess no matter what you'll always have haters..

Jewelz0376
08-28-2010, 01:05 AM
:laugh: how are those bs examples? I proved my point, get over it. It's not how many points you score, but how efficient you are in getting those points. I'm right, you're wrong.


Yea your right PPG, APG, and RPG don't matter :rolleyes:

What player is going to shoot 37 times to average 40 pts?? What player is going to only shoot 3's and nothing else other than the fact then they obviously aren't a good player cuz they can't do anything else...If your going to use examples to prove a point then at least come up with some realistic ones or you dont prove anything

Hustlenomics
08-28-2010, 01:06 AM
:laugh: how are those bs examples? I proved my point, get over it. It's not how many points you score, but how efficient you are in getting those points. I'm right, you're wrong.



Conley has been better than him the last two years.
This is why i avoid the main forum, because half of the people in here don't know what they're talking about when it comes to stats. They see a guy puts up 30 one season, and they think he's the ****ing ****. In Iverson's highest scoring season (31.4ppg) he took 27.8 shots. Yeah, that's quite efficient :facepalm:

the highest he averaged was 33 ppg yea take that away from him because he attemped alot of shots ..because im sure there are players who can average 30 with like 5 shots !


2 the guy who started this thread.. I couldn't agree more!!

Now i'm bout to sit back and watch a lot of people trash this guy.. it happens everytime the word Iverson come's up

^pretty much

Hawkeye15
08-28-2010, 01:06 AM
97-98 = 20.40 PER (14th overall)
98-99 = 22.20 PER (14th overall)
99-00 = 20.00 PER (20th overall)
00-01 = 24.00 PER (7th overall)
01-02 = 22.90 PER (12th overall)
02-03 = 22.14 PER (13th overall)
04-05 = 23.27 PER (9th overall)
05-06 = 26.02 PER (7th overall)
07-08 = 21.06 PER (21 overall)

Thats 9 outta 11 years he was basically top 20 in per..3 of those being top 10.. Was he the most efficient player in nba history?...no..but people act like he was basically no better than an eddie house that got 20+ shots a game.... The fact that he could get PER's like this being a 6 foot sg is amazing, but people I guess no matter what you'll always have haters..

PER rewards shot creation, so chuckers get some leeway on this stat. Iverson was indeed a great player. But at no point in his career was he a top 5-7 player in the NBA. He was a chucker who got the whistle, and was covered up by great defense, and efficient role players for his career.

Iverson will go down as one of the more overrated players of our generation. Mark my words

Shammyguy3
08-28-2010, 01:12 AM
97-98 = 20.40 PER (14th overall)
98-99 = 22.20 PER (14th overall)
99-00 = 20.00 PER (20th overall)
00-01 = 24.00 PER (7th overall)
01-02 = 22.90 PER (12th overall)
02-03 = 22.14 PER (13th overall)
04-05 = 23.27 PER (9th overall)
05-06 = 26.02 PER (7th overall)
07-08 = 21.06 PER (21 overall)

Thats 9 outta 11 years he was basically top 20 in per..3 of those being top 10.. Was he the most efficient player in nba history?...no..but people act like he was basically no better than an eddie house that got 20+ shots a game.... The fact that he could get PER's like this being a 6 foot sg is amazing, but people I guess no matter what you'll always have haters..

You now how terrible of a stat PER is if used on its own right? It's terribly overrated if used by itself.



the highest he averaged was 33 ppg yea take that away from him because he attemped alot of shots ..because im sure there are players who can average 30 with like 5 shots !


Yeah you're right, my apologies. But hey guess what?! He still had to take 25.3fga per game to reach that number, and he had an eFG% of 46.7% which is average, and he had an ORtg of 111 and a DRtg of 110 - so he was worth +1 point for every 100 possessions. Yeah, he's really great :rolleyes:



PER rewards shot creation, so chuckers get some leeway on this stat. Iverson was indeed a great player. But at no point in his career was he a top 5-7 player in the NBA. He was a chucker who got the whistle, and was covered up by great defense, and efficient role players for his career.

Iverson will go down as one of the more overrated players of our generation. Mark my words

I say he's already the most overrated. He's been terribly inefficient, and has a career WS/48 of 0.126 ... that is ridiculous for a "star" player.

Rego247
08-28-2010, 01:15 AM
PER rewards shot creation, so chuckers get some leeway on this stat. Iverson was indeed a great player. But at no point in his career was he a top 5-7 player in the NBA. He was a chucker who got the whistle, and was covered up by great defense, and efficient role players for his career.

Iverson will go down as one of the more overrated players of our generation. Mark my words

really not even the year he won the mvp? i dont like iverson that much but i do think at the height of career he was a top 7 player at the least. now hes a more a cancer then anything, poor attitude, i dont know whos gonna offer him starters position. if he accepts a bench role, i would be very surprised.

king2218
08-28-2010, 01:20 AM
Regardless if people view him as one of the best players ever or not...Iverson at this point in his career, can give an elite team, an elite 6th man scorer!

Lets compare his stats to Jameer Nelson:

Allen Iverson:
09-10 PHI 25 24 31.9 0.417 0.333 0.824 0.6 2.4 3.0 4.1 0.7 0.1 2.28 1.72 13.9

Jameer Nelson:
09-10 ORL 65 64 28.6 0.449 0.381 0.845 0.4 2.6 3.0 5.4 0.7 0.0 2.1 2.3 12.6

Jameer has him beat in FG% & 3ptFG%...but that's only because he has howard on his team who commands double teams. Imagine iverson coming off the bench & getting the open looks that the current magic players get!

Hustlenomics
08-28-2010, 01:21 AM
You now how terrible of a stat PER is if used on its own right? It's terribly overrated if used by itself.




Yeah you're right, my apologies. But hey guess what?! He still had to take 25.3fga per game to reach that number, and he had an eFG% of 46.7% which is average, and he had an ORtg of 111 and a DRtg of 110 - so he was worth +1 point for every 100 possessions. Yeah, he's really great :rolleyes:




I say he's already the most overrated. He's been terribly inefficient, and has a career WS/48 of 0.126 ... that is ridiculous for a "star" player.
LMFAOOO this guy can't be serious

Shammyguy3
08-28-2010, 01:22 AM
100% serious

Hawkeye15
08-28-2010, 01:26 AM
really not even the year he won the mvp? i dont like iverson that much but i do think at the height of career he was a top 7 player at the least. now hes a more a cancer then anything, poor attitude, i dont know whos gonna offer him starters position. if he accepts a bench role, i would be very surprised.

I guess I could listen to an argument that he was a top 7 player for 2 seasons. But I can't stress enough how fortunate he was to be surrounded by the mix of vets/defenders/offensive role players he had. Iverson was a player who could take over portions of games, but was highly overrated defensively, and shot at a very high volume for much of his career. But his ability to get to the stripe masked his compete inefficiency from the field

Tony_Starks
08-28-2010, 01:27 AM
Im not sure if he's "blackballed" but there is something behind the scenes that we don't know about because there is no way in hell people like McGrady are getting signed and I haven't so much as even heard AI's name mentioned this summer.

I mean Miami supposedly even had interest in Marbury this summer. And you mean to tell me AI can't even get a look? On a minimum salary at that?

He doesn't get the respect he deserves. I understand he's going through a rough patch in his life and teams are very leery but seriously you can't tell me guys like Jermaine Oneal, Larry Hughes, Juan Dixon still get love and not AI.... even ANTIONE WALKER has garnered some interest for Pete's sake.

I just don't get it......

Jewelz0376
08-28-2010, 01:27 AM
Yeah you're right, my apologies. But hey guess what?! He still had to take 25.3fga per game to reach that number, and he had an eFG% of 46.7% which is average, and he had an ORtg of 111 and a DRtg of 110 - so he was worth +1 point for every 100 possessions. Yeah, he's really great :rolleyes:


Have you actually looked at the top 20 in ortg and drtg that season..and how about the top 20 in efg%?

You think ppg, per, rpg, are flawed but those arent.. What kind of efg% do you expect him to shoot when he has not other player on his team that can create a shot and has the whole defense focused on him? Sure maybe if he was Korver who just sat at the 3 pt line all game he could've shot 50+%...get outta here with 46.7 being average lol

Shammyguy3
08-28-2010, 01:35 AM
Have you actually looked at the top 20 in ortg and drtg that season..and how about the top 20 in efg%?

You think ppg, per, rpg, are flawed but those arent.. What kind of efg% do you expect him to shoot when he has not other player on his team that can create a shot and has the whole defense focused on him?

Yeah, Iverson was in none of the above when it comes to those.

20th best in 05/06 in ORtg was 115.4, and Iverson was only 111
20th best in 05/06 in DRtg was 101.4, and Iverson was 110
20th best in 05/06 in eFg% was 53.1%, and Iverson was 46.7%

Yeah, the only thing he was top-20 in was ast% (8th) usg% (2nd) stl% (18th) OWS (11th) and WS (16th).

How is that great? It really isn't. The only thing that impresses me is his ast% and tov%, because he's underrated as a passer. But, with everything else he does he cancels any benefit you get with him on the court.


And you're right, the average last season for eFG% was 48% (for guards), so he was below average. Thanks for saying that so i would chck my calculations again. :rolleyes:

abe_froman
08-28-2010, 01:46 AM
There is no reason to sign Iverson for any basketball reason. If he is signed, it for commercial reasons only. At this point, he is a complete liability on the floor

this.

Hangtime
08-28-2010, 01:49 AM
I'm sorry, but Allen just needs to do what he said he was going to do a few years ago, RETIRE. He has a rep now for being a quiter. No one wants that poison in their locker room. ******* these conspiracy theories and have Allen look in the mirror for his current predicament.

oOo Rhino oOo
08-28-2010, 02:08 AM
A.I. will always get my respect, he is a clutch at 6 ft. He had done so much and now people treat him like he is pointless....im sorry to say this and I know I might get banned. But to all the a.I haters who think he's been trashed/washed up/cancer ect================. I wish you the best A.I.
Greatest player behind Kobe

Hawkeye15
08-28-2010, 02:14 AM
A.I. will always get my respect, he is a clutch at 6 ft. He had done so much and now people treat him like he is pointless....im sorry to say this and I know I might get banned. But to all the a.I haters who think he's been trashed/washed up/cancer ect. ===============. I wish you the best A.I.
Greatest player behind Kobe

clean it up

Ovratd1up
08-28-2010, 02:15 AM
:facepalm:

If you think those bs examples proved that we should ignore ppg, apg, and rpg then there's no point in even wasting my time with you...


the highest he averaged was 33 ppg yea take that away from him because he attemped alot of shots ..because im sure there are players who can average 30 with like 5 shots !



^pretty much


Maybe you are a fool or Maybe you are just starving for attention. Iverson at 35 is way better than Conley Jr will ever be. I wouldn't come off the bench for him. Everybody knows the media can build a player up, just as well as they can riun a players reputation. Iverson has never been terrible. AI is not the player he once was, but he is still better a lot of guards in this league. AI is not angel, but he doesn't deserve this.

Hey dudes, I thought I would just bring in an outsider's perspective.

Look, no offense to all of you, and I don't want to mean to be mean or anything. But if you go deeper into player analysis and stats and stuff, you realize a lot of things that you didn't know before. I used to be a fan like you guys, everyone once was, but I got educated. It was worth it.

From what I can see, this Shammyguy3 fellow actually knows what he is talking about here. He's using stats, that are much, much better than the fairweather stats, even if that's hard to believe. His points are all well based and logical. He's not participating in this thread cuz he's an Iverson hater, he's just here because he happens to know more about how to correctly analyze players and the game more accurately than fairweather fans. It's too bad, but he is totally right about Iverson. That's just the truth of the situation, and if you sit here and keep arguing, you will eventually figure this out as well.

I'm sorry about your loss,
Ovratd1up

ntat
08-28-2010, 02:50 AM
the highest he averaged was 33 ppg yea take that away from him because he attemped alot of shots ..because im sure there are players who can average 30 with like 5 shots !



^pretty muchwell kevin martin dropped 50 on like 12 shots...

Ovratd1up
08-28-2010, 02:55 AM
Allen Iverson dropped 31 on 28 shots, because that's the only way to drop 30. Yet,
Kevin Durant dropped 30 on 20 shots just last year.

Hellcrooner
08-28-2010, 03:03 AM
The same espn and stern that built him pUp and hype him up every time whe woudl score 50 in a game, even if losing the tgame and shooting 15%.


??

incredible.

Sportsisoxygen
08-28-2010, 03:13 AM
He should go to the kings. That would be a great fit with westphal.

nanablvd
08-28-2010, 03:32 AM
All he needs to do to immediately get an offer is an official public statement saying he is willing to be a cheaply paid sixth man.

miamiflorida
08-28-2010, 10:22 AM
Iverson dug his own grave... but he is still my fav player

llemon
08-28-2010, 10:25 AM
How did he do that in memphis? Cause he said he wasn't willing to come off the bench...? Why would he agree to that if he's outplaying the starting guard?? And he's not a ball hog, he has averaged 6 assists a game. Even in the 3 games he played in memphis...in 22 minutes, he averaged 4 assists!

Your post says it all.

You sign a contract, you do what the coach tells you.

What was AI's excuse with the next two teams?

3RDASYSTEM
08-28-2010, 11:01 AM
How come all the non players let HOLLINGER influence them with this ''PER'' or watever yall keep making up to make a SUPERSTAR look bad or judging efficiency(also rate the players talent level around him during those times,sometimes that has alot to do with your efficiency), not one time did anyone acknowledge the article except for like one person who said STERN doesnt control things(WAKE UP)....Tru athletes know that success is based on team talent/GM and how could you not shoot alot with non scoring role players he had in Sixerville...He was balling hogging with a purpose, but im done trying to get those who havent played to understand....i use to hear JORDAN was a ballhog when he was playing with basically non scoring role players in his early yrs...the only thing about AI, is they kept him with that for 10yrs in Philly, so he had to ballhog for 10yrs and other SUPERSTAR players get help last time i checked in those same yrs,now do you get the perception he was a scorer but has more career assists per game than half of the PGS and played more injured and with less talent,TALENT is a big deal on the highest level of sport competition....i havent heard not one time that AI played with a SUPERSTAR sidekick in his prime and failed, all i keep hearing is a 14/15yr vet has failed the past couple yrs...2001 was a long while ago but not 2008 and he was basically statistically 2nd best behind KOBE...the more articles come out dissing him,the more it makes sense how ill he was done....and if i change my game for better of team(like he did in DET) and still get killed for it, should i go back to my ball hogging ways so i can get bashed again? he got bashed for changing his game and got bashed for playing his style of game the longest in history of damn near any sport 1993-2008....man i would hate to be AI

WeBallin
08-28-2010, 11:45 AM
The only person tryin to conspire against AI is AI himself no one made him the way he his but him self, what AI need to do is stop lookin for excuses an humble it down a lil, AI needs a complete make over in his image

eugene
08-28-2010, 11:54 AM
I fully agree. No respect to AI. Probably HOF...

CLASSOF72
08-28-2010, 11:58 AM
...
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he made a complete a%% of himself in Memphis.

He wants to play for a contending team i'm sure, but no contending team wants to bring his ego, ball hogging, and chemistry problems.

Right, I want to play for a contender. Who don't? AI has dug his hole all on his own. I wouldn't put Iverson on a waterboy team, the players need their drinks.

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 12:23 PM
I guess I could listen to an argument that he was a top 7 player for 2 seasons. But I can't stress enough how fortunate he was to be surrounded by the mix of vets/defenders/offensive role players he had. Iverson was a player who could take over portions of games, but was highly overrated defensively, and shot at a very high volume for much of his career. But his ability to get to the stripe masked his compete inefficiency from the field

When exactly was that?

For what 2 seasons?

Hawkeye I know you're better than that. You say it as if A.I. had a great supporting cast and coaching staff his entire career. As you well know in his time as a Nugget he was way more efficient though being at the end his prime. If along with solild role players/locker room/vets and especially OFFENSIVE ROLE players he had an actually low post pressence or consistent effective scorer. Look at LeBron James and the Cavs all the role players/vets/defenders in the world could not take them to the top. If A.I. had an actual real veteran 1b option or who he could have deferred to (as he showed when they got Webber and in Denver he had no problem with that) he may have actually hoisted more than one regular season MVP award.

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 12:24 PM
I fully agree. No respect to AI. Probably HOF...

Definitely a HOFer

3RDASYSTEM
08-28-2010, 12:42 PM
ESPN Quote: Iverson has a big ego because he is unwilling to come off bench for STUCKEY, he's being asked to play in a system now instead of run n gun style so his ball hoggin will be limited and he will cause chemistry problemz cause he's never been in structured offense,and now he's being forced to come off bench for CONLEY who basically got replaced by a D-Leaguer but AI was 2nd best SG in league stat wise and his team won 50 games and he dont make not one ALL NBA team prior to going to DET...people just be runnin they *** catchers too much on here just to say they finally had heart to repost others statements..

i find it funny how everybody will say how much ''upside'' or how ''great'' a player is/will be after making a ALL STAR game, but when a guy finishes 3rd in entire league scoring and then being told to come off bench nxt yr nobody has a prob with it,i bet my right arm if it was KOBE/WADE who did that, PSD/ESPN would be like can they win the scoring title nxt season after finishing 3rd,not typing and putting out in media should they come off bench or being forced to,pure comedy....

PSD Quote(s): No contending team wants his ego/ball hoggin/chem. problems

Clipse quote: I know i know yep yeah me too, ok everybody meet Mr Me Too

Whats more important an 'image' or 'identity'? I roll wit the latter...sometimes its hard to compromise with 'punks' in the corporate world when you from that other side,and when i say that im being polite...no wonder he said the NBA trying to clean up its image is 'FAKE' ....at least somebody speak the truth in these ''lying'' times

llemon
08-28-2010, 12:46 PM
Regardless if people view him as one of the best players ever or not...Iverson at this point in his career, can give an elite team, an elite 6th man scorer!

Lets compare his stats to Jameer Nelson:

Allen Iverson:
09-10 PHI 25 24 31.9 0.417 0.333 0.824 0.6 2.4 3.0 4.1 0.7 0.1 2.28 1.72 13.9

Jameer Nelson:
09-10 ORL 65 64 28.6 0.449 0.381 0.845 0.4 2.6 3.0 5.4 0.7 0.0 2.1 2.3 12.6

Jameer has him beat in FG% & 3ptFG%...but that's only because he has howard on his team who commands double teams. Imagine iverson coming off the bench & getting the open looks that the current magic players get!

A team signing Iverson is a team signing its own death certificate

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 02:50 PM
A team signing Iverson is a team signing its own death certificate

thanks for such great insight you are truly the best poster we have ever seen :rolleyes:

3RDASYSTEM
08-28-2010, 03:21 PM
Also Aaron Mckie(former teammate and won 6th man cuz of AI) said ''When i first got traded to 76ERS i didnt want to play with AI cuz of the ''bad rep'' i heard about, but when i got there it was completely opposite, he was one of the hardest working players i have seen'' ....how come nobody quotes this, i cant be the only one not sleeping under a sports rock? Its amazing how a guy can go from one of hardest working to cancer/egomaniac and another reporter during the 2004 Olympics quoted the same saying ''AI has an amazing work ethic he didnt kno existed''(I wonder why he didnt know until he actually ''covered'' him LIVE),at least i know wat im up against on here,and i thought all the ''followers'' were on that Tweets these days....at least PSD taught me to listen to those who have never played/practiced with him(ESPN) and not listen to the ones who speak on his behalf(BROWN/SNOW/MCKIE) and have actually played with him and coached him....learn somethin new daily

SteveNash
08-28-2010, 03:27 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/434952-david-stern-and-espn-have-destroyed-allen-iversons-career

There has been some talk going on that there is a conspiracy against Allen Iverson, how is that a 38 year old Shaq with a huge ego get signed to a Boston team that just reached the Finals last year and a 35 year old Allen Iverson isn't even mentioned?, how is it that a banged up Jermaine O'Neal who lost a step 3 years ago also signed to that team?? How is it that a injury prone Tracy McGrady who has played just 65 games in two seasons is on a team and Allen Iverson can't even get an offer? Something is up, there is definitely a conspiracy against Allen Iverson and it didn't just start this off season its been going on for about 2 years now.

AI just sucks. I'd be a better fit for an NBA team than AI.

RenegadeRiot36
08-28-2010, 03:30 PM
Maybe because he's terrible? And no team wants a bad player? And maybe he won't even sell tickets anymore?


Maybe, maybe he is the most overrated player to ever play? Maybe, just maybe.

really, the most overrated player to EVER PLAY?:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm:

nightBULL
08-28-2010, 03:45 PM
I still think Iverson can play. He'd at least have more of an impact on a team than say T-Mac, but Iverson brought this on himself, not the media. Just because your employer pays you to play basketball doesn't mean it isn't a job. You can't walk around bashing your employer to the media or stop showing up to work because your daughters sick.

llemon
08-28-2010, 03:48 PM
thanks for such great insight you are truly the best poster we have ever seen

I know. Thanks for the acknowledging it.

Meaze_Gibson
08-28-2010, 03:49 PM
Women Lie, Men Lie, and Numbers get manipulated. Its best to just watch and form your own opinion. In my opinion, its ridiculous to say A.I hasn't been a top 5 player in the league and one of the top 5 sg ever..As I watched the games, I saw a 6ft guard, getting double teamed, playing majority minutes every night, and still scoring 30 a night and 6-7 assist. I saw a guard who, when combined with all-star offensive talent, shot more efficiently. This jus leads me too believe if he had more efficient players, he wouldve been more efficient. Cmon yall, Eric Snow, Aaron Mckie, Toni Kukoc, washed up glen robinson, washed up Webber, Larry Hughes, Dikembe Mutombo???..These are the best players you played with in your "considered" inefficient years...

The stats don't do justice. They'll tell you that he gave up more points at his position, neglecting the fact that Iverson actually guarded the point and Snow guarded the sg's. But see thats why you gotta watch games. Plus stats are finicky anyway. Just awhile back PER was the best way to rate efficiency. Whose to say that Efg% and TS% wont become the new PER, as new formulas emerge?.

Sometimes you have to get things done and it may not be the most efficient way or method, but you give all your effort nonetheless. When he won MVP and got them to Finals, that wasn't his most efficient year, but he got it done. (Nobody was beating the Lakers that year). AI is beyond stats ya'll don't let media and these mathematical formulas fool you.

llemon
08-28-2010, 03:54 PM
Women Lie, Men Lie, and Numbers get manipulated. Its best to just watch and form your own opinion. In my opinion, its ridiculous to say A.I hasn't been a top 5 player in the league and one of the top 5 sg ever..As I watched the games, I saw a 6ft guard, getting double teamed, playing majority minutes every night, and still scoring 30 a night and 6-7 assist. I saw a guard who, when combined with all-star offensive talent, shot more efficiently. This jus leads me too believe if he had more efficient players, he wouldve been more efficient. Cmon yall, Eric Snow, Aaron Mckie, Toni Kukoc, washed up glen robinson, washed up Webber, Larry Hughes, Dikembe Mutombo???..These are the best players you played with in your "considered" inefficient years...

The stats don't do justice. They'll tell you that he gave up more points at his position, neglecting the fact that Iverson actually guarded the point and Snow guarded the sg's. But see thats why you gotta watch games. Plus stats are finicky anyway. Just awhile back PER was the best way to rate efficiency. Whose to say that Efg% and TS% wont become the new PER, as new formulas emerge?.

Sometimes you have to get things done and it may not be the most efficient way or method, but you give all your effort nonetheless. When he won MVP and got them to Finals, that wasn't his most efficient year, but he got it done. (Nobody was beating the Lakers that year). AI is beyond stats ya'll don't let media and these mathematical formulas fool you.

What does all that have to do with the fact that AI is no longer capable of contributing to the success of an NBA team at this point in time?

Meaze_Gibson
08-28-2010, 04:15 PM
What does all that have to do with the fact that AI is no longer capable of contributing to the success of an NBA team at this point in time?

Because people like to call out that his stats are not efficient enough to show that he could contribute now. Oh and somebody mentioned that AI was never a top 7 player in the league which is laughable. Anyway, point blank, AI can still help a team at this point in time in the NBA..If J Crawford can gun his way into 20 pts a night, If J. Terry continues to disappear in playoff moments, If toronto's star guard is Calderon, If B. Davis continues to get paid without showing any effort or heart, Then A.I. def can still help a team out.

Jewelz0376
08-28-2010, 04:28 PM
Hey dudes, I thought I would just bring in an outsider's perspective.

Look, no offense to all of you, and I don't want to mean to be mean or anything. But if you go deeper into player analysis and stats and stuff, you realize a lot of things that you didn't know before. I used to be a fan like you guys, everyone once was, but I got educated. It was worth it.

From what I can see, this Shammyguy3 fellow actually knows what he is talking about here. He's using stats, that are much, much better than the fairweather stats, even if that's hard to believe. His points are all well based and logical. He's not participating in this thread cuz he's an Iverson hater, he's just here because he happens to know more about how to correctly analyze players and the game more accurately than fairweather fans. It's too bad, but he is totally right about Iverson. That's just the truth of the situation, and if you sit here and keep arguing, you will eventually figure this out as well.

I'm sorry about your loss,
Ovratd1up

Yea so since u2 say he is overrated he must be :rolleyes:

llemon
08-28-2010, 04:34 PM
Because people like to call out that his stats are not efficient enough to show that he could contribute now. Oh and somebody mentioned that AI was never a top 7 player in the league which is laughable. Anyway, point blank, AI can still help a team at this point in time in the NBA..If J Crawford can gun his way into 20 pts a night, If J. Terry continues to disappear in playoff moments, If toronto's star guard is Calderon, If B. Davis continues to get paid without showing any effort or heart, Then A.I. def can still help a team out.

AI's outside shot was never great, and it's worse now.

AI relied on quickness to get to the hoop, and that quickness is gone now.

AI used to be able to take a good hit going to the basket. He is now fragile.

He never could play defense

For a contender to sign this malcontent would be reason enough for someone in their FO to get fired.

Shammyguy3
08-28-2010, 04:35 PM
really, the most overrated player to EVER PLAY?:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm:

Yes, really. Name any other player that you think is more overrated than Iverson, because I can't.

Meaze_Gibson
08-28-2010, 04:43 PM
Yes, really. Name any other player that you think is more overrated than Iverson, because I can't.

Bob Cousy..Pistol Pete..Scottie Pippen (Better than Jordan??..Please)

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 04:49 PM
AI's outside shot was never great, and it's worse now.

AI relied on quickness to get to the hoop, and that quickness is gone now.

AI used to be able to take a good hit going to the basket. He is now fragile.

He never could play defense

For a contender to sign this malcontent would be reason enough for someone in their FO to get fired.

and thats all there is to basketball right?

You OBVIOUSLY did not watch any Philly games in which he played last season. You obviously never heard how well the players spoke of his presence in the locker room. While it has been hard as hell for him adjusting to his age and his inabilities perform well at certain aspects of his game anymore because of his age he did show in his time as a sixer that he was learning to cope with it. But hey from all the posts I read from you before all I see is blind hate with no seriously reasoning so I expect nothing but negativity from you.

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 04:53 PM
Yes, really. Name any other player that you think is more overrated than Iverson, because I can't.

Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Gilbert Arenas, Chris Webber.

llemon
08-28-2010, 04:53 PM
and thats all there is to basketball right?

You OBVIOUSLY did not watch any Philly games in which he played last season. You obviously never heard how well the players spoke of his presence in the locker room. While it has been hard as hell for him adjusting to his age and his inabilities perform well at certain aspects of his game anymore because of his age he did show in his time as a sixer that he was learning to cope with it. But hey from all the posts I read from you before all I see is blind hate with no seriously reasoning so I expect nothing but negativity from you.

I have no hate for Iverson.

He's just done.

Some people, such as yourself and AI, refuse to see that.

You will have to admit to it during this coming season.

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 04:58 PM
I have no hate for Iverson.

He's just done.

Some people, such as yourself and AI, refuse to see that.

You will have to admit to it during this coming season.

Allen Iverson the basketball player can contribute well on virtually any team he goes to once he learns to accept a bench role with much less minutes than he's ever played in his career. Allen Iverson the PERSON (or at least the person the public sees him as) is the reason why he has and may likely never get a job in the league again.

If you actually paid attention to Philly basketball last season you would have seen that. He is NEVER going to be a star player again but he still has a little left in the tank and could be a good piece on any team once he gets his head right works hard at it and understands and fully accepts a reduced role.

llemon
08-28-2010, 05:00 PM
Allen Iverson the basketball player can contribute well on virtually any team he goes to once he learns to accept a bench role with much less minutes than he's ever played in his career. Allen Iverson the PERSON (or at least the person the public sees him as) is the reason why he has and may likely never get a job in the league again.

If you actually paid attention to Philly basketball last season you would have seen that. He is NEVER going to be a star player again but he still has a little left in the tank and could be a good piece on any team once he gets his head right works hard at it and understands and fully accepts a reduced role.

He's done

Shammyguy3
08-28-2010, 05:08 PM
Bob Cousy..Pistol Pete..Scottie Pippen (Better than Jordan??..Please)

Pippen is definitely not overrated the way Iverson is.
Pistol Pete? Not even close.
Cousy? Not even close.


Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Gilbert Arenas, Chris Webber.

Carter is not nearly as overrated as Iverson. People think Iverson is one of the greatest players ever, which he is not. People don't even come close to overrating Carter in the fashion that they do Iverson.

Arenas? Definitely not. He's much more efficient, and a similar passer. Worse defensively, but not by a huge margin. People rate him just fine.

Webber? Actually yeah he is definitely there with Iverson. But people think Iverson is much better than he is, and people think Webber is much better also but just a bit under the "overrated" part that they do Iverson

McGrady? Yeah he's totally overrated as well.

Iverson
Webber
McGrady

I'd put them in that order, with Iverson and Webber being very close and McGrady a distant third.

llemon
08-28-2010, 05:10 PM
Pippen is definitely not overrated the way Iverson is.
Pistol Pete? Not even close.
Cousy? Not even close.



Carter is not nearly as overrated as Iverson. People think Iverson is one of the greatest players ever, which he is not. People don't even come close to overrating Carter in the fashion that they do Iverson.

Arenas? Definitely not. He's much more efficient, and a similar passer. Worse defensively, but not by a huge margin. People rate him just fine.

Webber? Actually yeah he is definitely there with Iverson. But people think Iverson is much better than he is, and people think Webber is much better also but just a bit under the "overrated" part that they do Iverson

McGrady? Yeah he's totally overrated as well.

Iverson
Webber
McGrady

I'd put them in that order, with Iverson and Webber being very close and McGrady a distant third.

Iverson was a warrior that wouldn't back down.

Vince.....not so much.

Huntey
08-28-2010, 05:46 PM
For the people defending Iverson on this thread: all i can say is look at the facts...

He was once a great player, a hall of famer. He's now 35 and no one expects a 35 year old guy to be great at that age. Some guys can do it and some guys can't. No doubt he's still a good player but he's not as great as he believes anymore.

It's no consipiricy, thats just silly. What do the league gain from that? sounds like a lot of hard work to try and erase a player so close to retirement from the NBA. Everything he's said and done has already happened over the last 14-15 years; the league cant change that so why bother 'conspiring' against him?!

the facts are that He's not on a team, and he's not on a team for a reason. I'm sure if you gave him 30mins a game and as many possesions as he wants then yes he would get 20ppg but he's just not going to get that on any play-off team (apart form maybe the Bobcats?). His ego and his style of play are out dated.

Huntey
08-28-2010, 05:54 PM
Allen Iverson the basketball player can contribute well on virtually any team he goes to once he learns to accept a bench role with much less minutes than he's ever played in his career. Allen Iverson the PERSON (or at least the person the public sees him as) is the reason why he has and may likely never get a job in the league again.

If you actually paid attention to Philly basketball last season you would have seen that. He is NEVER going to be a star player again but he still has a little left in the tank and could be a good piece on any team once he gets his head right works hard at it and understands and fully accepts a reduced role.

He's 35, he doesnt have time to learn to be a bench player. It's obviously such a big deal to him and he is reluctant to do it at all. Remember this isn't just a guy who's used to starting, this is a guy who's used to starting and then playing 40 minutes a game.

I agree with you that the reason he's not on a team is because of the person and not the player but i think they're easily as important as eachother.

BigAl25
08-28-2010, 06:27 PM
i'm surprised he's not back in the league, say what you want about him, he's still better than your average player.

CLASSOF72
08-28-2010, 06:53 PM
i'm surprised he's not back in the league, say what you want about him, he's still better than your average player.

Not exactly sure how you'd quantify that.

Jewelz0376
08-28-2010, 06:57 PM
Pippen is definitely not overrated the way Iverson is.
Pistol Pete? Not even close.
Cousy? Not even close.



Carter is not nearly as overrated as Iverson. People think Iverson is one of the greatest players ever, which he is not. People don't even come close to overrating Carter in the fashion that they do Iverson.

Arenas? Definitely not. He's much more efficient, and a similar passer. Worse defensively, but not by a huge margin. People rate him just fine.

Webber? Actually yeah he is definitely there with Iverson. But people think Iverson is much better than he is, and people think Webber is much better also but just a bit under the "overrated" part that they do Iverson

McGrady? Yeah he's totally overrated as well.

Iverson
Webber
McGrady

I'd put them in that order, with Iverson and Webber being very close and McGrady a distant third.

He's a first ballot hall of famer...that means your one of the greats... Webber and McGrady won't even be hall of famers let alone first ballot hofs

OA SLAY
08-28-2010, 07:05 PM
For good reason though half the time

Being angry because of ur pen!s size is alegitimate reason!

abe_froman
08-28-2010, 07:11 PM
i'm surprised he's not back in the league, say what you want about him, he's still better than your average player.

how??

OA SLAY
08-28-2010, 07:17 PM
I can understand y teams r not willing to take the risk of signing a 35 year old guard but don't bash or discredit what he has done in this league. He was so hyped from 97-03 for a reason and even to compare him to players such as Webber, Carter, Arenas, TMac in any category is ridiculous

Swashcuff
08-28-2010, 07:31 PM
Carter is not nearly as overrated as Iverson. People think Iverson is one of the greatest players ever, which he is not. People don't even come close to overrating Carter in the fashion that they do Iverson.

Arenas? Definitely not. He's much more efficient, and a similar passer. Worse defensively, but not by a huge margin. People rate him just fine.

Webber? Actually yeah he is definitely there with Iverson. But people think Iverson is much better than he is, and people think Webber is much better also but just a bit under the "overrated" part that they do Iverson

McGrady? Yeah he's totally overrated as well.

Iverson
Webber
McGrady

I'd put them in that order, with Iverson and Webber being very close and McGrady a distant third.

I am not even going to explain anything to you all I'd say is watch A.I. track record as compared to any of those players mentioned and tell me who did the most with the least and also who has ALWAYS been spoken of highly by each and every player who has had anything to say about him. The man is respected in basketball circles for all that he was able to do. Despite certain fans/analysts may dislike him for his erratic play and inefficient style of play at the end of the day he did his best and did as much as one man could have possibly done given the fact that there was no sort of consistency in the franchise that drafted him.

Arenas while more efficient has/will NEVER accomplish what prime A.I. was able to.

And you say Carter is not nearly as overrated as A.I. I remember hearing it countless times that Carter is/was the second coming of Michael Jordan.

Its clear from your posts that you have a dislike for A.I. as a baller and all you mention is his stats and efficiency but you neglect to mention despite all the knocks people has on him he has accomplished more than each and everyone of those other guys who mentioned. So if you wanna say he's overrated go right ahead but the positives in his track record says otherwise.

Ender
08-28-2010, 07:34 PM
There is absolutely a conspiracy against AI.

And 9/11 was an inside job.

/sarc off.

NYKNYGNYY
08-28-2010, 08:28 PM
"I've done a lot of good things in my life and done a lot of bad things in my life so I don't know. I hope the good things outweigh the bad things. I'm damn sure I don't want to go to hell."

best quote

llemon
08-28-2010, 09:16 PM
"I've done a lot of good things in my life and done a lot of bad things in my life so I don't know. I hope the good things outweigh the bad things. I'm damn sure I don't want to go to hell."

best quote

Couldn't everyone with a conscience make that same statement?

C-Dub
08-28-2010, 09:42 PM
wow, this thread was created for haters

nightBULL
08-28-2010, 09:45 PM
Not exactly sure how you'd quantify that.

I'm sure someone here can get you stats. Ts%'s and what not

3RDASYSTEM
08-28-2010, 10:00 PM
All right for those who say he's overrated lets have a breakdown of how a guy under 6ft who got constant double/triple and even quadruple teamed against TOR in playoffs had his team relevant and couldnt be stopped but shot a low pct cuz of non scorers/non Robin/lack of scoring talent around him(Thanks L.Brown u defensive stubborn guru)

Roster he basically played with in his ''prime'' yrs:
MCCULLOUGH/LYNCH/GEIGER/MUTOMBO/SNOW/MCKIE/J.JONES/MCKIE/And a few other pieces of change that im sure based on the comments posted on here u guys wouldnt have a clue who the other guys are and im pretty sure u guys dont know but a couple from that list up top.....Now name me ANY Superstar player that could have taken that team anywhere let alone the FINALS, and he won with MCCOULLOUGH/GEIGER as his center....

Then 2nd half in Philly he had the broken down former AllStars COLEMAN/KUKOC/WEBBER/VAN HORN/BIG DOG ROBINSON and do i need to mention the others youngsters who werent ready but could play a little bit in IGGY/KORVER...It was pretty much a miracle he had them relevant much less a playoff berth(D.WADE is like the new AI before this summer where everybody was saying his roster sucked, well go back and i can guarantee AI's is just as bad,maybe worse...and he carried that weak franchise for 10seasons and never cried or pouted his way out, they had to force him out and lie about him wanting out(his loyalty was way too high for a terrible ran franchise)....now today and back then(KOBE) every Superstar is running around begging and pleading for help....cant none of'em stand in the fire for 10yrs no help and put it down, then get traded and play wit a SUPERSTAR for ''1'' full season and get labeled a cancer after posting numbers the critics couldnt fathom cuz they thought he would have been fell off hard cuz of his style of play

And last time i checked if you are the OFF. options #1-4 and have to create for yourself plus very OFF challenged teammates your efficiency would be greatly affected and remember hes not MJ/LEBRON/SHAQ/DUNCAN height, hes challenging E.BOYKINS so i have no clue how yall seeing it, when playing a team sport its necessary to have more TALENT than not have it,and if you know how to play chemistry is easier than it seems ala FAVRE to VIKES and when the CELTS big 3 formed...anyday of the yr i would take a Portland/Dallas talented filled team than any Iverson tenure 76er team ..I can see if he played with supreme talent from one team to nxt like NASH did MAVS/SUNS and didnt make one FINALS appearance then this would not be up for discussion,i would say he failed pretty bad....but for a guy who played allout/injured with no eye catching talent, he did pretty good...


This aint my words:MY SOURCES courtesy of ESPN
Their record this season: 49-23. 26 games over .500! If you for one second forgot how good Allen Iverson in his prime was, please look at that roster again. He almost won 50 games with a team that had Matt Geiger and Todd MacCulloch starting! He took them to the Finals the next year, and might have won if he wasn't going against the Lakers dynasty in their prime.

Allen Iverson is still the most underrated player of this era. People will point to his 41% FG rate, and act like you know, like he's Jamal Crawford or something. Jamal Crawford is someone you can point to their 41% rate, and use it to represent his value (or lack of) to a team. But Iverson? Sheeeeet, Allen Iverson is a freaking MVP.

whitemamba33
08-28-2010, 10:03 PM
All right for those who say he's overrated lets have a breakdown of how a guy under 6ft who got constant double/triple and even quadruple teamed against TOR in playoffs had his team relevant and couldnt be stopped but shot a low pct cuz of non scorers/non Robin/lack of scoring talent around him(Thanks L.Brown u defensive stubborn guru)

Roster he basically played with in his ''prime'' yrs:
MCCULLOUGH/LYNCH/GEIGER/MUTOMBO/SNOW/MCKIE/J.JONES/MCKIE/And a few other pieces of change that im sure based on the comments posted on here u guys wouldnt have a clue who the other guys are and im pretty sure u guys dont know but a couple from that list up top.....Now name me ANY Superstar player that could have taken that team anywhere let alone the FINALS, and he won with MCCOULLOUGH/GEIGER as his center....

Then 2nd half in Philly he had the broken down former AllStars COLEMAN/KUKOC/WEBBER/VAN HORN/BIG DOG ROBINSON and do i need to mention the others youngsters who werent ready but could play a little bit in IGGY/KORVER...It was pretty much a miracle he had them relevant much less a playoff berth(D.WADE is like the new AI before this summer where everybody was saying his roster sucked, well go back and i can guarantee AI's is just as bad,maybe worse...and he carried that weak franchise for 10seasons and never cried or pouted his way out, they had to force him out and lie about him wanting out(his loyalty was way too high for a terrible ran franchise)....now today and back then(KOBE) every Superstar is running around begging and pleading for help....cant none of'em stand in the fire for 10yrs no help and put it down, then get traded and play wit a SUPERSTAR for ''1'' full season and get labeled a cancer after posting numbers the critics couldnt fathom cuz they thought he would have been fell off hard cuz of his style of play

And last time i checked if you are the OFF. options #1-4 and have to create for yourself plus very OFF challenged teammates your efficientcy would be greatly affected and remember hes not MJ/LEBRON/SHAQ/DUNCAN height, hes challenging E.BOYKINS so i have no clue how yall seeing it, when playing a team sport its necessary to have more TALENT than not have it,and if you know how to play chemistry is easier than it seems ala FAVRE to VIKES and when the CELTS big 3 formed...anyday of the yr i would take a Portland/Dallas talented filled team than any Iverson tenure 76er team ..I can see if he played with supreme talent from one team to nxt like NASH did MAVS/SUNS and didnt make one FINALS appearance then this would not be up for discussion,i would say he failed pretty bad....but for a guy who played allout/injured with no eye catching talent, he did pretty good...


This aint my words:MY SOURCES courtesy of ESPN
Their record this season: 49-23. 26 games over .500! If you for one second forgot how good Allen Iverson in his prime was, please look at that roster again. He almost won 50 games with a team that had Matt Geiger and Todd MacCulloch starting! He took them to the Finals the next year, and might have won if he wasn't going against the Lakers dynasty in their prime.

Allen Iverson is still the most underrated player of this era. People will point to his 41% FG rate, and act like you know, like he's Jamal Crawford or something. Jamal Crawford is someone you can point to their 41% rate, and use it to represent his value (or lack of) to a team. But Iverson? Sheeeeet, Allen Iverson is a freaking MVP.

You are about 9 years too late.

The present day Iverson is trying to decide between retirement and not being wanted by any team.

Algmuskrats
08-28-2010, 10:07 PM
Why is this on PSD? Its common sense. He's not a team player.
Mod please close this pathetic thread.

Hustlenomics
08-28-2010, 10:13 PM
all right for those who say he's overrated lets have a breakdown of how a guy under 6ft who got constant double/triple and even quadruple teamed against tor in playoffs had his team relevant and couldnt be stopped but shot a low pct cuz of non scorers/non robin/lack of scoring talent around him(thanks l.brown u defensive stubborn guru)

roster he basically played with in his ''prime'' yrs:
Mccullough/lynch/geiger/mutombo/snow/mckie/j.jones/mckie/and a few other pieces of change that im sure based on the comments posted on here u guys wouldnt have a clue who the other guys are and im pretty sure u guys dont know but a couple from that list up top.....now name me any superstar player that could have taken that team anywhere let alone the finals, and he won with mccoullough/geiger as his center....

Then 2nd half in philly he had the broken down former allstars coleman/kukoc/webber/van horn/big dog robinson and do i need to mention the others youngsters who werent ready but could play a little bit in iggy/korver...it was pretty much a miracle he had them relevant much less a playoff berth(d.wade is like the new ai before this summer where everybody was saying his roster sucked, well go back and i can guarantee ai's is just as bad,maybe worse...and he carried that weak franchise for 10seasons and never cried or pouted his way out, they had to force him out and lie about him wanting out(his loyalty was way too high for a terrible ran franchise)....now today and back then(kobe) every superstar is running around begging and pleading for help....cant none of'em stand in the fire for 10yrs no help and put it down, then get traded and play wit a superstar for ''1'' full season and get labeled a cancer after posting numbers the critics couldnt fathom cuz they thought he would have been fell off hard cuz of his style of play

and last time i checked if you are the off. Options #1-4 and have to create for yourself plus very off challenged teammates your efficiency would be greatly affected and remember hes not mj/lebron/shaq/duncan height, hes challenging e.boykins so i have no clue how yall seeing it, when playing a team sport its necessary to have more talent than not have it,and if you know how to play chemistry is easier than it seems ala favre to vikes and when the celts big 3 formed...anyday of the yr i would take a portland/dallas talented filled team than any iverson tenure 76er team ..i can see if he played with supreme talent from one team to nxt like nash did mavs/suns and didnt make one finals appearance then this would not be up for discussion,i would say he failed pretty bad....but for a guy who played allout/injured with no eye catching talent, he did pretty good...


This aint my words:my sources courtesy of espn
their record this season: 49-23. 26 games over .500! If you for one second forgot how good allen iverson in his prime was, please look at that roster again. He almost won 50 games with a team that had matt geiger and todd macculloch starting! He took them to the finals the next year, and might have won if he wasn't going against the lakers dynasty in their prime.

Allen iverson is still the most underrated player of this era. People will point to his 41% fg rate, and act like you know, like he's jamal crawford or something. Jamal crawford is someone you can point to their 41% rate, and use it to represent his value (or lack of) to a team. But iverson? Sheeeeet, allen iverson is a freaking mvp.

+ 1

Kidd>>>K-Mart
08-28-2010, 10:18 PM
I hope AI is back to play in the NBA this year and he could still embarrss people...thats his job.

whitemamba33
08-28-2010, 10:24 PM
I hope AI is back to play in the NBA this year and he could still embarrss people...thats his job.

I thought his job was to embarass himself.

That's what I got from his time with his last three teams anyways...so I could be wrong. But I doubt it.

KTheo77
08-28-2010, 10:27 PM
Maybe, maybe he is the most overrated player to ever play? Maybe, just maybe.[/QUOTE]

:facepalm:

llemon
08-28-2010, 10:32 PM
I hope AI is back to play in the NBA this year and he could still embarrss people...thats his job.

Does 'embarrassing people' include embarrassing himself?

3RDASYSTEM
08-28-2010, 10:42 PM
Yo WHITEMAMBA33 i bet 2008 aint that far ago when he was statistically 2nd best SG behind Americas top choice KB24...now watch this season and the SG who finishes behind KOBE in scoring/performance will get HIGH praise, i guarantee you wont be hearing no stories about them coming off bench, get ya weight up...good looking on the +1 HUSTLENOMICS..i notice nobody can say nothing about how efficient and dominant he was in 08 26ppg 7apg 2spg and played all 82 and played with BOYKINZ/CARTER in backcourt then went to DET and took 14 shots per....I need an anwer, how many points would your fav player avg with those attempts?

And how many SUPERSTARS would be happy playing behind CONLEY during 2nd/4th qtr stretch minutes when its winning time(Dont start him,but at least play your best players to win game and that would be MAYO/AI)...How happy would your fav PG/SG be happy playing behind CONLEY?answer ASAP

Then went back to Sixerville and put up 14ppg on 29minutes per(out of shape)...who wouldnt take 14ppg in a little over a half of game of PT on 10/11shots per? You guys keep me with latest comedy,please continue and tell me how many PPG would your fav player avg with those shot attempts per..answer ASAP, no need to copy and paste my posts everybody can read, just give legit feedback,it aint hard

RipCity32
08-28-2010, 10:44 PM
give him what he wants or he might have personal problems and have to quit on you this guy doesnt deserve to play on any team hes a piece of trash

whitemamba33
08-28-2010, 10:56 PM
Yo WHITEMAMBA33 i bet 2008 aint that far ago when he was statistically 2nd best SG behind Americas top choice KB24...now watch this season and the SG who finishes behind KOBE in scoring/performance will get HIGH praise, i guarantee you wont be hearing no stories about them coming off bench, get ya weight up...good looking on the +1 HUSTLENOMICS..i notice nobody can say nothing about how efficient and dominant he was in 08 26ppg 7apg 2spg and played all 82 and played with BOYKINZ/CARTER in backcourt then went to DET and took 14 shots per....I need an anwer, how many points would your fav player avg with those attempts?

And how many SUPERSTARS would be happy playing behind CONLEY during 2nd/4th qtr stretch minutes when its winning time(Dont start him,but at least play your best players to win game and that would be MAYO/AI)...How happy would your fav PG/SG be happy playing behind CONLEY?answer ASAP

Then went back to Sixerville and put up 14ppg on 29minutes per(out of shape)...who wouldnt take 14ppg in a little over a half of game of PT on 10/11shots per? You guys keep me with latest comedy,please continue and tell me how many PPG would your fav player avg with those shot attempts per..answer ASAP, no need to copy and paste my posts everybody can read, just give legit feedback,it aint hard

stopped reading at the bolded text.

Jewelz0376
08-29-2010, 01:11 AM
If people don't think any team should pick him up because of his attitude thats def understandable and I dont see how anyone could not see that....At the same time though skill wise he is def still good enough to play....anyone who doesn't agree with that obviously didn't watch him play in philly last year..

Is he a starter anymore?? no...but he can def still be the first guard off the bench..problem is I dont think he would be cool with that..and even if he said he is cool with it I still don't think Id believe him.. It's sad that his career might end like this, but like i said earlier he has no1 to blame but himself..

Swashcuff
08-29-2010, 08:16 AM
If people don't think any team should pick him up because of his attitude thats def understandable and I dont see how anyone could not see that....At the same time though skill wise he is def still good enough to play....anyone who doesn't agree with that obviously didn't watch him play in philly last year..

Is he a starter anymore?? no...but he can def still be the first guard off the bench..problem is I dont think he would be cool with that..and even if he said he is cool with it I still don't think Id believe him.. It's sad that his career might end like this, but like i said earlier he has no1 to blame but himself..

Great post! :clap::clap::clap:

stejay
08-29-2010, 10:27 AM
it really ticks me off that the NBA has painted AI as the poster boy for all that is perceived bad in the NBA. He is a top 20 all time player, IMO. One of the best shooters of all time, an undersized player who should have been outsized, but still owned the court... I dont see how he can be remembered for the rant. He and Brown are actually on extremely good terms now. I mean, Stern has ****** AI out of his true legacy, as one of the GOAT.... And that is really sad.

Raoul Duke
08-29-2010, 10:44 AM
it really ticks me off that the NBA has painted AI as the poster boy for all that is perceived bad in the NBA. He is a top 20 all time player, IMO. One of the best shooters of all time, an undersized player who should have been outsized, but still owned the court... I dont see how he can be remembered for the rant. He and Brown are actually on extremely good terms now. I mean, Stern has ****** AI out of his true legacy, as one of the GOAT.... And that is really sad.

What did David Stern do to him?

stejay
08-29-2010, 10:57 AM
What did David Stern do to him?

Im not saying he directly did it, but in my opinion, and a heck of a lot ofothers, he has basically blamed him for the hip hop culture in the NBA, and the insinuation is that he has a hand in the general media negativity over AI, which I very much subscribe to. For further reference, read the OP... I cant wait for his HOF speech. And you though MJ's was bad.... lol.

Raoul Duke
08-29-2010, 11:34 AM
Im not saying he directly did it, but in my opinion, and a heck of a lot ofothers, he has basically blamed him for the hip hop culture in the NBA, and the insinuation is that he has a hand in the general media negativity over AI, which I very much subscribe to. For further reference, read the OP... I cant wait for his HOF speech. And you though MJ's was bad.... lol.

Fair enough. I can dig that.

llemon
08-29-2010, 11:59 AM
He is a top 20 all time player, IMO. One of the best shooters of all time

One of the best scorers, certainly.

One of the best shooters? Not even close.

stejay
08-29-2010, 12:21 PM
One of the best scorers, certainly.

One of the best shooters? Not even close.

Please explain why he isnt? I dare you....

llemon
08-29-2010, 12:29 PM
Please explain why he isnt? I dare you....

Well, if you dare me.........LOL!!!!!

Check out his shooting %s. Usually an indication of a great shooter.

Wilson
08-29-2010, 12:32 PM
Sorry, this is a bleacher report article, which isn't a reputable source. Since it contains a lot of unfounded theories about the inner workings of the NBA, I'm going to close this.

Raoul Duke
08-29-2010, 12:32 PM
He's average from the line and below average from three. He's one of the best scorers in the history of the game, but not in any way one of the best shooters of all time.